Ibogaine List Archives – 2006-04-2

From: “Sara Glatt” <sara119@xs4all.nl>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Just a reply,to All This?Pau l (grasshopper ot, no revelations chiming in w/ usual tripe))
Date: April 12, 2006 at 8:11:29 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Thanks Ron for being there,

all I can say is that Paul as much as he suffered coming off all those drugs,
he treated me and my family really respectfully and showed generosity,
he didn’t demand anything and was very friendly to everyone who came along.
maybe his writing is extremely irrelevant to some people, but his deed are
showing his heart is in the right place.
it doesn’t matter what you like to eat, a good person has good deeds and
that what counts more then a talk.that’s why I appriciate what you do RON.

peace,

Sara

more back sniping?  you crazy people.  careful someone duzn’t bring that
darn klown back.  just kidding. he was too polarizing and offensive and
grasshopper doesn’t want to offend others sharing same foxhole.  but he
has
relatives…sleeper klownz on the list.  will surprise most. did me when
contacted off list. i was like , huh? not you too. i’m stickin to telling
my
story as trite and meaningless as it is.  don’t tell me how sick you were,
tell me how well you got and how to stay that way cuz this shite will kill
you as it is doing me.
—– Original Message —–
From: “Kirk” <captkirk@clear.net.nz>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Tuesday, April 11, 2006 3:39 PM
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Just a reply,to All This?Paul

Lol Billy, the masculine/feminine comments were MINE, and as per usual I
did
a bad job of explaining it….therefore they’ve been misinterpreted
misunderstood etc. If anyone has a link to help explain what I mean by
masc/fem I would be forever grateful!!!!
Ok.

—–Original Message—–
From: Billy J [mailto:billjohnson6@sympatico.ca]
Sent: Tuesday, 11 April 2006 4:29 p.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Just a reply,to All This?Paul

He Paul, whats this stuff about taking Iboga for masculinity?,Who,?
And you have taken Ibogaine and it has helped clean you Up?
What was your Experiance like and where you a person following Jesus
preior
to or after? Or who do you follow?
Did you see Jesus during your trip?

Talk about how You got there what the experiance was like along with
your
suggestions for a Ibogaine candidate, as well as what you have done for
follow-up?

I do n

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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] (Sorta WAY OT!- semi-nuddie pics) Fw: slipper pix
Date: April 12, 2006 at 7:34:21 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

sorry, I’m not posting photos anymore. again my apologies.

—–
“If God dropped acid, would he see people?”  ~Steven Wright

Peace, love and lotsof respect.
Preston Peet
ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor Underground- the Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations, Astonishing Archaeology and Hidden History
Editor Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Columnist HighTimes mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —– From: <slowone@hush.ai>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Tuesday, April 11, 2006 10:31 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] (Sorta WAY OT!- semi-nuddie pics) Fw: slipper pix

This filled my mailbox.. sigh.

On Sun, 02 Apr 2006 07:46:16 -0700 Preston Peet <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
wrote:
HI all,
Just thought I’d share the photos below. Hopefully they won’t
clog up people’s boxes, and if they do I humbly apologize.
But I thought I’d share how I spend most weekends. These were
taken Friday night while I was dj’ing Hot Box, the Slipper Room’s
Friday night burlesque extravaganza, and unfortunately these
photos don’t do the humor and talent credit. Still, some of these
are quite good. (V dj’s every other Saturday now, for Mr. Choad’s
Upstairs/Downstairs burlesque show, instead of each Saturday as
she did for the last 3 years or so- and she isn’t in any of these
shots, not being a dancer, even though she could probably clean up

doing so.)
;-))
Anyway, hope everyone is having a good Sunday and not overtaxing
themselves with worry, stress or the absolute weirdness about how
some folk seem to think “abusive” language and behavior and
“therapeutic” can, logically, fit together in any sane, rational
treatment of addicts and drug abusers.
BTW, the girl with the tattoos (Peekaboo Point) is my pilates
trainer.
And, though it isn’t obvious from the one photo of me in here,
just to tie this in in a wee manner to the topic at hand, I am
seriously baked to the gills during this particular evening’s
event, so baked in fact that I had the most overwhelming headrush
I’ve ever had on Friday night, at least since the first summer I
ever smoked pot. After having taken a huge hit of the BEST EVER
Strawberry Cough while crouched down behind the turntables out of
sight of the packed house, I then stood up and whoa! Head Rush! I
almost fell over and did in fact accidentally hit the fade switch
during said blinding rush, and conked out the music for a few
second because I couldn’t see anything nor could I hear through
the high-pitched keening sound in my ears from the blood rushing
(into? Out of?) my ears. When it first started, I thought for a
second that the cd was screwing up or something and reached for
the machine to do some finagling, only to find myself struck blind

and deaf by the headrush. What causes this? Does anyone know the
science behind this phenomenon, what causes a headrush I mean?
Anyway, enjoy the photos.
—–
“If God dropped acid, would he see people?”  ~Steven Wright

Peace, love and lotsof respect.
Preston Peet
ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor Underground- the Disinformation Guide to Ancient
Civilizations, Astonishing Archaeology and Hidden History
Editor Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Columnist HighTimes mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —– From: ABuckit@aol.com
To:
Cc: ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Sent: Saturday, April 01, 2006 5:34 PM
Subject: Re: slipper pix

Allo D.T.

From last night.

If you would be most kind and pass these pictures onto the others,

as I don’t have their emails. I have many more, these are a quick
selection.
Also, Miss D.T., Are you getting my emails? You are on the list.
Again, a treat to see you last night, Much love

Adrian

Concerned about your privacy? Instantly send FREE secure email, no account required
http://www.hushmail.com/send?l=480

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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Reasons for Anger.
Date: April 12, 2006 at 7:08:51 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

don’t bum out callie. I think of you (and many others here) often, in good ways.
Did that help?
;-)))

—–
“If God dropped acid, would he see people?”  ~Steven Wright

Peace, love and lotsof respect.
Preston

—– Original Message —– From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Tuesday, April 11, 2006 4:19 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Reasons for Anger.

In a message dated 4/11/2006 2:44:44 P.M. Central Standard Time, jon@mindvox.com writes:
walked up the Mountain, and
when
I reached the

top. I said, GOD IF IT IS MY TIME TO GO I WILL SEE YOU IN A MINUTE MATE.
And
then I jumped

off, knowing full well that out of blind Faith, GOD would catch me.
What mountain did you jump off Jiggy?

Three little tips for a content and happy life.
Find someone to LOVE (yourself fist) Have and allow someone to LOVE
you(GOD)
and find

something to do. Earn your money so as you have all that you require.
Simple
really.

It does sound simple but we know it isn’t. For one thing, I have trouble turning my mind off. I have trouble leaving the problems at home.
You gotta like your job too and right now I do not like mine worth a damn!
I should get out and find myself a different job but that is not easy when everyone has started doing background checks.
I am not a serial killer but I do have several shoplifting charges, a couple counts of forging prescriptions and four possession of controlled substance charges. Nothing really bad but bad enough to keep me from being hired at even cleaning jobs!! They have told me in the past that if something come up missing and the client or employer wants the employee backgrounds checked, they could be liable even if I were completely innocent because of the petty theft (shoplifting) charges.
Excuses, maybe but really I don’t think so.
So, I have been trying very hard to just be happy and grateful of the job I have but it is difficult when you aren’t enjoying yourself at all!

Damn, life can be a bummer, can’t it? That is why I love my opiates so fucking much! I have this fear in me that I will never be totally happy and will die with many regrets.
bumming out,
Callie

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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Just a reply,to All This?Paul
Date: April 12, 2006 at 7:07:13 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I do not really hear of anybody here that actually has a job that they work
at?? and if so how long after stopping Methadone and or whatever where you
and or ANYBODY, Capable ,Mentally and physically to go back to work.<

I’m a writer and editor, and despite my sloppy posts full of misspellings and typoes here onlist, I do work “regularly.” It took not that long after taking ibogaine (sometimes just a couple of days) to get back to full-time working, but after kicking methadone cold, it took me at least a month to feel up to working again.
The worst thing for my working was NEVER my drugs, neither my habit drugs nor my ibogaine- it was the Sept. 11 attacks, watching the second tower fall from my rooftop that most adversely affected my work. It took me months to recover from that.
And I turned to using harder drugs (again) for a few years after the Sept. 11 attacks too.

—–
“If God dropped acid, would he see people?”  ~Steven Wright

Peace, love and lotsof respect.
Preston Peet
ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor Underground- the Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations, Astonishing Archaeology and Hidden History
Editor Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Columnist HighTimes mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —– From: “Billy J” <billjohnson6@sympatico.ca>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Tuesday, April 11, 2006 12:29 AM
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Just a reply,to All This?Paul

He Paul, whats this stuff about taking Iboga for masculinity?,Who,?
And you have taken Ibogaine and it has helped clean you Up?
What was your Experiance like and where you a person following Jesus preior to or after? Or who do you follow?
Did you see Jesus during your trip?

Talk about how You got there what the experiance was like along with your suggestions for a Ibogaine candidate, as well as what you have done for follow-up?

I do not really hear of anybody here that actually has a job that they work at?? and if so how long after stopping Methadone and or whatever where you and or ANYBODY, Capable ,Mentally and physically to go back to work.

Biill , And May God Help Us All ( I Know He Has Already)

—-Original Message Follows—-
From: Kirk <captkirk@clear.net.nz>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Kirk!
Date: Tue, 11 Apr 2006 09:56:06 +1200
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Thinking he who rants loudest and rudest could be the one who has lost the
plot.
Why are you attacking people so rudely on this list for them having an
opinion that differs from yours?
Think you need to question why that is.
Debate is cool, but you’re just being rude and not allowing for any other
opinion bar your own tunnel visioned one.
I hope YOU get to see the full picture one day.
In the meantime, I wish you well.
Kirk

—–Original Message—–
From: Paul Brookshaw [mailto:jiggy9@hotmail.co.uk]
Sent: Tuesday, 11 April 2006 9:23 a.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Kirk!

Hello Kirk,
I think what yoiu just said is crap. Pure egotistical rubbish.
Methadone lol
Let me tell you where i have just come from. OK
For the last 6 years I had been taking, 80mg of Methadone +, half a gram of
Scag, 600mg of Dihydracodine. 40mg of Certraline, 150mg of Valium, plus
little tickles in between of Moggys and Tamazapam. A bottle of vodka, plus 4

special brews. 3000mg of Gabapentin, 15 grms of weed, plus tobacco, and now
i am clean.
What do you mean by Methadone eh?
I took Iboga to stop myself from self anialation. You took it cos you whee
to masculine.
Get a life.
Seriously. You both deserve one another.
You’ve lost the plot completely.
Another one bites the dust. lolol>’~+

Blessings be with you and may you see fully one day. lolol
That is why I seem to moke OK?
Get it sorted.

Bless you Paul:)’

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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Re: ibogaine and insanity
Date: April 12, 2006 at 7:01:20 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Thanks Krista.
I guess it’s yet another “test” of my willpower, to see if I can remain calm and unoffended by those things (and people) I “cannot change.”
;-))

—–
“If God dropped acid, would he see people?”  ~Steven Wright

Peace, love and lotsof respect.
Preston

—– Original Message —– From: “Krista Vaughan” <krista.vaughan@gmail.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Tuesday, April 11, 2006 2:58 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Re: ibogaine and insanity

Before ibogaine Paul was just angry and attacked people. The emotions
in his messages before and after are identical, just that after
ibogaine he’s started to fill them up with bible verse.

Good luck Paul! Hang in there.

KV

On 4/11/06, Preston Peet <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com> wrote:
Paul is the first person I’ve seen go completely, undeniably insane from
taking ibogaine (of course, I can’t remember what Paul was posting pre-ibo,
if he was actually posting here pre-ibo, so perhaps he’s always been
completely bonkers, hard to tell).
Are there are figures anywhere compiled that show how many people may have
had such adverse results (or have just plain “gone crazy”) from taking
ibogaine?

—–
“If God dropped acid, would he see people?”  ~Steven Wright

remaining blather deleted.

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From: Kirk <captkirk@clear.net.nz>
Subject: [Ibogaine] Re: CHIIIIII~!~
Date: April 12, 2006 at 3:46:28 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Heyy Chi!!
Gee you must get covered in slobber holding your tongue. Let it go and let
it flap!!
No, second thoughts, just hold it….. lol, I let mine flap and regretted
it, best to sit back and let it run it’s course.  I guess we’re all trying
to find our way, some are just a bit vocal about what they think they’ve
found than others. Onward thru the fog. It’s all good.
Yoga huh!!!  Let me know when you’ve masterd the Lotus!!!
Jasen ay!!  Don’t listen to him he’s a LOONEY “winking in Jasen’s general
direction
Hehehehe
Keep in touch Chi, or else, I’ll set …… something on you…..
Ok
Good
Kirk xxxx

—–Original Message—–
From: cm [mailto:cm67@optusnet.com.au]
Sent: Tuesday, 11 April 2006 10:55 p.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Kirk!

hey kirsty, love you heaps. ive been just sitting back and reading lately,
trying to hold my tongue.
some total knobs on this list (did i just say that out loud). if some ppl
had taken all the crap they
claim to have put in their system theyd be dead by now.
now, on to happy thoughts, i went to my 1st yoga class today with jasen –
was great. i’ll let you
know how much pain im in in a couple of days.
chi xooooo (lotsa hugs)
—– Original Message —–
From: “Kirk” <captkirk@clear.net.nz>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Tuesday, April 11, 2006 7:56 AM
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Kirk!

Thinking he who rants loudest and rudest could be the one who has lost the
plot.
Why are you attacking people so rudely on this list for them having an
opinion that differs from yours?
Think you need to question why that is.
Debate is cool, but you’re just being rude and not allowing for any other
opinion bar your own tunnel visioned one.
I hope YOU get to see the full picture one day.
In the meantime, I wish you well.
Kirk

—–Original Message—–
From: Paul Brookshaw [mailto:jiggy9@hotmail.co.uk]
Sent: Tuesday, 11 April 2006 9:23 a.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Kirk!

Hello Kirk,
I think what yoiu just said is crap. Pure egotistical rubbish.
Methadone lol
Let me tell you where i have just come from. OK
For the last 6 years I had been taking, 80mg of Methadone +, half a gram
of
Scag, 600mg of Dihydracodine. 40mg of Certraline, 150mg of Valium, plus
little tickles in between of Moggys and Tamazapam. A bottle of vodka, plus

4

special brews. 3000mg of Gabapentin, 15 grms of weed, plus tobacco, and
now
i am clean.
What do you mean by Methadone eh?
I took Iboga to stop myself from self anialation. You took it cos you whee
to masculine.
Get a life.
Seriously. You both deserve one another.
You’ve lost the plot completely.
Another one bites the dust. lolol>’~+

Blessings be with you and may you see fully one day. lolol
That is why I seem to moke OK?
Get it sorted.

Bless you Paul:)’

_________________________________________________________________
Are you using the latest version of MSN Messenger? Download MSN Messenger
7.5 today! http://join.msn.com/messenger/overview

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From: “cm” <cm67@optusnet.com.au>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Kirk!
Date: April 11, 2006 at 6:55:27 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

hey kirsty, love you heaps. ive been just sitting back and reading lately, trying to hold my tongue.
some total knobs on this list (did i just say that out loud). if some ppl had taken all the crap they
claim to have put in their system theyd be dead by now.
now, on to happy thoughts, i went to my 1st yoga class today with jasen – was great. i’ll let you
know how much pain im in in a couple of days.
chi xooooo (lotsa hugs)
—– Original Message —– From: “Kirk” <captkirk@clear.net.nz>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Tuesday, April 11, 2006 7:56 AM
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Kirk!

Thinking he who rants loudest and rudest could be the one who has lost the
plot.
Why are you attacking people so rudely on this list for them having an
opinion that differs from yours?
Think you need to question why that is.
Debate is cool, but you’re just being rude and not allowing for any other
opinion bar your own tunnel visioned one.
I hope YOU get to see the full picture one day.
In the meantime, I wish you well.
Kirk

—–Original Message—–
From: Paul Brookshaw [mailto:jiggy9@hotmail.co.uk]
Sent: Tuesday, 11 April 2006 9:23 a.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Kirk!

Hello Kirk,
I think what yoiu just said is crap. Pure egotistical rubbish.
Methadone lol
Let me tell you where i have just come from. OK
For the last 6 years I had been taking, 80mg of Methadone +, half a gram of
Scag, 600mg of Dihydracodine. 40mg of Certraline, 150mg of Valium, plus
little tickles in between of Moggys and Tamazapam. A bottle of vodka, plus 4

special brews. 3000mg of Gabapentin, 15 grms of weed, plus tobacco, and now
i am clean.
What do you mean by Methadone eh?
I took Iboga to stop myself from self anialation. You took it cos you whee
to masculine.
Get a life.
Seriously. You both deserve one another.
You’ve lost the plot completely.
Another one bites the dust. lolol>’~+

Blessings be with you and may you see fully one day. lolol
That is why I seem to moke OK?
Get it sorted.

Bless you Paul:)’

_________________________________________________________________
Are you using the latest version of MSN Messenger? Download MSN Messenger
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From: Kirk <captkirk@clear.net.nz>
Subject: [Ibogaine] OT Mushroom season
Date: April 12, 2006 at 1:24:46 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Here’s what springs up on my front lawn this time of year. Usually get heaps of them, but having big booted workmen here has really pissed the Fly Agaric Faeres off this year. Still purdy though.
PS never taken them lol.

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From: Kirk <captkirk@clear.net.nz>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Just a reply,to All This?Pau l (grasshopper ot, no revelations chiming in w/ usual tripe))
Date: April 12, 2006 at 1:06:22 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hahahah nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo NOT THE CLOWN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
;o)

—–Original Message—–
From: grasshopper [mailto:rwd3@cox.net]
Sent: Wednesday, 12 April 2006 4:26 p.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Just a reply,to All This?Pau l (grasshopper ot, no
revelations chiming in w/ usual tripe))

more back sniping?  you crazy people.  careful someone duzn’t bring that
darn klown back.  just kidding. he was too polarizing and offensive and
grasshopper doesn’t want to offend others sharing same foxhole.  but he has
relatives…sleeper klownz on the list.  will surprise most. did me when
contacted off list. i was like , huh? not you too. i’m stickin to telling my

story as trite and meaningless as it is.  don’t tell me how sick you were,
tell me how well you got and how to stay that way cuz this shite will kill
you as it is doing me.
—– Original Message —–
From: “Kirk” <captkirk@clear.net.nz>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Tuesday, April 11, 2006 3:39 PM
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Just a reply,to All This?Paul

Lol Billy, the masculine/feminine comments were MINE, and as per usual I
did
a bad job of explaining it….therefore they’ve been misinterpreted
misunderstood etc. If anyone has a link to help explain what I mean by
masc/fem I would be forever grateful!!!!
Ok.

—–Original Message—–
From: Billy J [mailto:billjohnson6@sympatico.ca]
Sent: Tuesday, 11 April 2006 4:29 p.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Just a reply,to All This?Paul

He Paul, whats this stuff about taking Iboga for masculinity?,Who,?
And you have taken Ibogaine and it has helped clean you Up?
What was your Experiance like and where you a person following Jesus
preior
to or after? Or who do you follow?
Did you see Jesus during your trip?

Talk about how You got there what the experiance was like along with your
suggestions for a Ibogaine candidate, as well as what you have done for
follow-up?

I do not really hear of anybody here that actually has a job that they
work
at?? and if so how long after stopping Methadone and or whatever where you
and or ANYBODY, Capable ,Mentally and physically to go back to work.

Biill , And May God Help Us All ( I Know He Has Already)

—-Original Message Follows—-
From: Kirk <captkirk@clear.net.nz>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Kirk!
Date: Tue, 11 Apr 2006 09:56:06 +1200
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Thinking he who rants loudest and rudest could be the one who has lost the
plot.
Why are you attacking people so rudely on this list for them having an
opinion that differs from yours?
Think you need to question why that is.
Debate is cool, but you’re just being rude and not allowing for any other
opinion bar your own tunnel visioned one.
I hope YOU get to see the full picture one day.
In the meantime, I wish you well.
Kirk

—–Original Message—–
From: Paul Brookshaw [mailto:jiggy9@hotmail.co.uk]
Sent: Tuesday, 11 April 2006 9:23 a.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Kirk!

Hello Kirk,
I think what yoiu just said is crap. Pure egotistical
rubbish.
Methadone lol
Let me tell you where i have just come from. OK
For the last 6 years I had been taking, 80mg of Methadone +, half a gram
of
Scag, 600mg of Dihydracodine. 40mg of Certraline, 150mg of Valium, plus
little tickles in between of Moggys and Tamazapam. A bottle of vodka, plus

4

special brews. 3000mg of Gabapentin, 15 grms of weed, plus tobacco, and
now
i am clean.
What do you mean by Methadone eh?
I took Iboga to stop myself from self anialation. You took it cos you whee
to masculine.
Get a life.
Seriously. You both deserve one another.
You’ve lost the plot completely.
Another one bites the dust. lolol>’~+

Blessings be with you and may you see fully one day. lolol
That is why I seem to moke OK?
Get it sorted.

Bless you Paul:)’

_________________________________________________________________
Are you using the latest version of MSN Messenger? Download MSN Messenger
7.5 today! http://join.msn.com/messenger/overview

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From: “grasshopper” <rwd3@cox.net>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Just a reply,to All This?Pau l (grasshopper ot, no revelations chiming in w/ usual tripe))
Date: April 12, 2006 at 12:25:56 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

more back sniping?  you crazy people.  careful someone duzn’t bring that darn klown back.  just kidding. he was too polarizing and offensive and grasshopper doesn’t want to offend others sharing same foxhole.  but he has relatives…sleeper klownz on the list.  will surprise most. did me when contacted off list. i was like , huh? not you too. i’m stickin to telling my story as trite and meaningless as it is.  don’t tell me how sick you were, tell me how well you got and how to stay that way cuz this shite will kill you as it is doing me.
—– Original Message —– From: “Kirk” <captkirk@clear.net.nz>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Tuesday, April 11, 2006 3:39 PM
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Just a reply,to All This?Paul

Lol Billy, the masculine/feminine comments were MINE, and as per usual I did
a bad job of explaining it….therefore they’ve been misinterpreted
misunderstood etc. If anyone has a link to help explain what I mean by
masc/fem I would be forever grateful!!!!
Ok.

—–Original Message—–
From: Billy J [mailto:billjohnson6@sympatico.ca]
Sent: Tuesday, 11 April 2006 4:29 p.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Just a reply,to All This?Paul

He Paul, whats this stuff about taking Iboga for masculinity?,Who,?
And you have taken Ibogaine and it has helped clean you Up?
What was your Experiance like and where you a person following Jesus preior
to or after? Or who do you follow?
Did you see Jesus during your trip?

Talk about how You got there what the experiance was like along with your
suggestions for a Ibogaine candidate, as well as what you have done for
follow-up?

I do not really hear of anybody here that actually has a job that they work
at?? and if so how long after stopping Methadone and or whatever where you
and or ANYBODY, Capable ,Mentally and physically to go back to work.

Biill , And May God Help Us All ( I Know He Has Already)

—-Original Message Follows—-
From: Kirk <captkirk@clear.net.nz>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Kirk!
Date: Tue, 11 Apr 2006 09:56:06 +1200
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Thinking he who rants loudest and rudest could be the one who has lost the
plot.
Why are you attacking people so rudely on this list for them having an
opinion that differs from yours?
Think you need to question why that is.
Debate is cool, but you’re just being rude and not allowing for any other
opinion bar your own tunnel visioned one.
I hope YOU get to see the full picture one day.
In the meantime, I wish you well.
Kirk

—–Original Message—–
From: Paul Brookshaw [mailto:jiggy9@hotmail.co.uk]
Sent: Tuesday, 11 April 2006 9:23 a.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Kirk!

Hello Kirk,
I think what yoiu just said is crap. Pure egotistical rubbish.
Methadone lol
Let me tell you where i have just come from. OK
For the last 6 years I had been taking, 80mg of Methadone +, half a gram of
Scag, 600mg of Dihydracodine. 40mg of Certraline, 150mg of Valium, plus
little tickles in between of Moggys and Tamazapam. A bottle of vodka, plus 4

special brews. 3000mg of Gabapentin, 15 grms of weed, plus tobacco, and now
i am clean.
What do you mean by Methadone eh?
I took Iboga to stop myself from self anialation. You took it cos you whee
to masculine.
Get a life.
Seriously. You both deserve one another.
You’ve lost the plot completely.
Another one bites the dust. lolol>’~+

Blessings be with you and may you see fully one day. lolol
That is why I seem to moke OK?
Get it sorted.

Bless you Paul:)’

_________________________________________________________________
Are you using the latest version of MSN Messenger? Download MSN Messenger
7.5 today! http://join.msn.com/messenger/overview

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From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] OT, NEVER get choked in a Southern restuarant
Date: April 11, 2006 at 11:09:39 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

> >
> >
> > Never Choke in a Southern  Restaurant
> > Two hillbillies Ed and  Red walk into a bar. While having a shot of whiskey,
> > they talk
> > about their  moonshine operation.  Suddenly, a woman at a nearby table, who
> > is
> > eating a sandwich, begins  to cough.  After a minute or so, it becomes
> > apparent that
> > she is in  real   distress.
> >
> > One of the hillbillies  looks at her and says, “Kin ya swallar?”
> > The woman shakes her head  no. “Kin ya breathe?”
> > The woman begins to turn  blue and shakes her head no.
> > The hillbilly walks over  to the woman, lifts up the back of her dress, yanks
> > down her drawers and  quickly gives her right butt cheek a lick with his
> > tongue.  The woman is so shocked that she has a violent spasm and  the
> > obstruction flies out of her mouth. As she begins to breathe again, the
> > hillbilly
> > walks  slowly back to the  bar.  His  partner says, “Ya know, I’d heerd of
> > that
> > there ‘Hind Lick  Maneuver’, but I ain’t never seed nobody do it!”
> >
> > Pass this on to everyone  that you think needs a good chuckle!!

From: <slowone@hush.ai>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] (Sorta WAY OT!- semi-nuddie pics) Fw: slipper pix
Date: April 11, 2006 at 10:31:08 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

This filled my mailbox.. sigh.

On Sun, 02 Apr 2006 07:46:16 -0700 Preston Peet <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
wrote:
HI all,
Just thought I’d share the photos below. Hopefully they won’t
clog up people’s boxes, and if they do I humbly apologize.
But I thought I’d share how I spend most weekends. These were
taken Friday night while I was dj’ing Hot Box, the Slipper Room’s
Friday night burlesque extravaganza, and unfortunately these
photos don’t do the humor and talent credit. Still, some of these
are quite good. (V dj’s every other Saturday now, for Mr. Choad’s
Upstairs/Downstairs burlesque show, instead of each Saturday as
she did for the last 3 years or so- and she isn’t in any of these
shots, not being a dancer, even though she could probably clean up

doing so.)
;-))
Anyway, hope everyone is having a good Sunday and not overtaxing
themselves with worry, stress or the absolute weirdness about how
some folk seem to think “abusive” language and behavior and
“therapeutic” can, logically, fit together in any sane, rational
treatment of addicts and drug abusers.
BTW, the girl with the tattoos (Peekaboo Point) is my pilates
trainer.
And, though it isn’t obvious from the one photo of me in here,
just to tie this in in a wee manner to the topic at hand, I am
seriously baked to the gills during this particular evening’s
event, so baked in fact that I had the most overwhelming headrush
I’ve ever had on Friday night, at least since the first summer I
ever smoked pot. After having taken a huge hit of the BEST EVER
Strawberry Cough while crouched down behind the turntables out of
sight of the packed house, I then stood up and whoa! Head Rush! I
almost fell over and did in fact accidentally hit the fade switch
during said blinding rush, and conked out the music for a few
second because I couldn’t see anything nor could I hear through
the high-pitched keening sound in my ears from the blood rushing
(into? Out of?) my ears. When it first started, I thought for a
second that the cd was screwing up or something and reached for
the machine to do some finagling, only to find myself struck blind

and deaf by the headrush. What causes this? Does anyone know the
science behind this phenomenon, what causes a headrush I mean?
Anyway, enjoy the photos.
—–
“If God dropped acid, would he see people?”  ~Steven Wright

Peace, love and lotsof respect.
Preston Peet
ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor Underground- the Disinformation Guide to Ancient
Civilizations, Astonishing Archaeology and Hidden History
Editor Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Columnist HighTimes mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —–
From: ABuckit@aol.com
To:
Cc: ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Sent: Saturday, April 01, 2006 5:34 PM
Subject: Re: slipper pix

Allo D.T.

From last night.

If you would be most kind and pass these pictures onto the others,

as I don’t have their emails. I have many more, these are a quick
selection.
Also, Miss D.T., Are you getting my emails? You are on the list.
Again, a treat to see you last night, Much love

Adrian

Concerned about your privacy? Instantly send FREE secure email, no account required
http://www.hushmail.com/send?l=480

Get the best prices on SSL certificates from Hushmail
https://www.hushssl.com?l=485

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From: Kirk <captkirk@clear.net.nz>
Subject: [Ibogaine] lmao
Date: April 11, 2006 at 4:50:01 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Thanks again Paul
Best laugh I have had today!!!
xxxx

—–Original Message—–
From: Paul Brookshaw [mailto:jiggy9@hotmail.co.uk]
Sent: Tuesday, 11 April 2006 6:27 p.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] Kirsty!

Hello Kirsty,
I forgot to mention that, I dropped the said afore mentioned
in just under 4 months, so how the hell can you say, people should take it
easy. Your own fear crawls all over what you write. Perhaps you have never
really had a problem with Opiates and other hard substances at all, just
like to act the part to get attention. The truth hurts babe, but it will set

you free. Free indeed. lolol
Sorry for the slap, but you are so full of ponnie like a lot of people, even

after taking Iboga, you are still blinded. SAD.
I pray this day you find the true you and
then let yourself free
from the prison you have created
for yourself.
Have a good day now!!!’
Bless you Paul:)~’

Strenght, Power and Honour shall lead you to Respect yourself, and not play
with the life you where given freely. Grace darling you forget Grace!!!

_________________________________________________________________
Are you using the latest version of MSN Messenger? Download MSN Messenger
7.5 today! http://join.msn.com/messenger/overview

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From: Kirk <captkirk@clear.net.nz>
Subject: [Ibogaine] re:callie
Date: April 11, 2006 at 4:47:44 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hey Callie,
Yes I;’m very happy, on some level that I haven’t felt before.  If you could see what’s happening here you’d have to wonder how that is lol.
No I haven’t replaced the drugs with anything…… not that I am aware of, it’s just like I don’t take them anymore, end of story.  Got my eye warily on the three month mark but have good support network if things get a bit hairy then.
Energy is still returning, and I’m ready for bed by about 8:30 pm and sleep is still a bit broken but it’s not driving me too crazy.
Arrghhh what’s driving me crazy is as I type there are carpenters skill sawing hammering, painters with electric sanders all around my house they been here since just after Jason left, my house is surrounded by huge metal scaffolding, the section is a mess my gardens are trampled plants are screaming out to be saved, others just gave up and died.  My car is fekked, I got lumped with two bull mastiffs while their owners are away and the interior of the house is a pig sty, and I got debt coming out my ears.
But it’s ok. I don’t know how but it is. Lol
I was only doing part time house painting work before the ibo, so looking into what to do now.  Possibly be taught how to make websites.  I’m just not sure on that one yet.  Kinda like I’m waiting for the kaos out there to go away then I can pull everything together.
Not sure lol, bit in limbo at the moment.
Stay tuned hahahaha!!
Love heaps
Kirk xx

From: CallieMimosa@aol.com [mailto:CallieMimosa@aol.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, 12 April 2006 8:32 a.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Kirk!

In a message dated 4/11/2006 2:56:23 P.M. Central Standard Time, captkirk@clear.net.nz writes:
And hey, nearly two months up for me J
My life is in kaos all around, but I’m not taking drugs lol.  That right there is a bloody miracle lol.
Chick, I am so happy for you!! I really am! Are you happy? What have you replaced the drugs with? anything?
Do you work? If so, how is the job since you are drug free?
Hell, how are you handling life without drugs? Do you have a lot of idle time? Are you smoking more cigarettes? (if you smoke!! haha!)
wtg, callie

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From: Kirk <captkirk@clear.net.nz>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Just a reply,to All This?Paul
Date: April 11, 2006 at 4:39:13 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Lol Billy, the masculine/feminine comments were MINE, and as per usual I did
a bad job of explaining it….therefore they’ve been misinterpreted
misunderstood etc. If anyone has a link to help explain what I mean by
masc/fem I would be forever grateful!!!!
Ok.

—–Original Message—–
From: Billy J [mailto:billjohnson6@sympatico.ca]
Sent: Tuesday, 11 April 2006 4:29 p.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Just a reply,to All This?Paul

He Paul, whats this stuff about taking Iboga for masculinity?,Who,?
And you have taken Ibogaine and it has helped clean you Up?
What was your Experiance like and where you a person following Jesus preior
to or after? Or who do you follow?
Did you see Jesus during your trip?

Talk about how You got there what the experiance was like along with your
suggestions for a Ibogaine candidate, as well as what you have done for
follow-up?

I do not really hear of anybody here that actually has a job that they work
at?? and if so how long after stopping Methadone and or whatever where you
and or ANYBODY, Capable ,Mentally and physically to go back to work.

Biill , And May God Help Us All ( I Know He Has Already)

—-Original Message Follows—-
From: Kirk <captkirk@clear.net.nz>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Kirk!
Date: Tue, 11 Apr 2006 09:56:06 +1200
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Thinking he who rants loudest and rudest could be the one who has lost the
plot.
Why are you attacking people so rudely on this list for them having an
opinion that differs from yours?
Think you need to question why that is.
Debate is cool, but you’re just being rude and not allowing for any other
opinion bar your own tunnel visioned one.
I hope YOU get to see the full picture one day.
In the meantime, I wish you well.
Kirk

—–Original Message—–
From: Paul Brookshaw [mailto:jiggy9@hotmail.co.uk]
Sent: Tuesday, 11 April 2006 9:23 a.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Kirk!

Hello Kirk,
I think what yoiu just said is crap. Pure egotistical rubbish.
Methadone lol
Let me tell you where i have just come from. OK
For the last 6 years I had been taking, 80mg of Methadone +, half a gram of
Scag, 600mg of Dihydracodine. 40mg of Certraline, 150mg of Valium, plus
little tickles in between of Moggys and Tamazapam. A bottle of vodka, plus 4

special brews. 3000mg of Gabapentin, 15 grms of weed, plus tobacco, and now
i am clean.
What do you mean by Methadone eh?
I took Iboga to stop myself from self anialation. You took it cos you whee
to masculine.
Get a life.
Seriously. You both deserve one another.
You’ve lost the plot completely.
Another one bites the dust. lolol>’~+

Blessings be with you and may you see fully one day. lolol
That is why I seem to moke OK?
Get it sorted.

Bless you Paul:)’

_________________________________________________________________
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From: “Paul Brookshaw” <jiggy9@hotmail.co.uk>
Subject: [Ibogaine] Kirsty!
Date: April 11, 2006 at 2:27:02 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hello Kirsty,
I forgot to mention that, I dropped the said afore mentioned in just under 4 months, so how the hell can you say, people should take it easy. Your own fear crawls all over what you write. Perhaps you have never really had a problem with Opiates and other hard substances at all, just like to act the part to get attention. The truth hurts babe, but it will set you free. Free indeed. lolol
Sorry for the slap, but you are so full of ponnie like a lot of people, even after taking Iboga, you are still blinded. SAD.
I pray this day you find the true you and then let yourself free
from the prison you have created for yourself.
Have a good day now!!!’
Bless you Paul:)~’

Strenght, Power and Honour shall lead you to Respect yourself, and not play with the life you where given freely. Grace darling you forget Grace!!!

_________________________________________________________________
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From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Kirk!
Date: April 11, 2006 at 4:31:45 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 4/11/2006 2:56:23 P.M. Central Standard Time, captkirk@clear.net.nz writes:
And hey, nearly two months up for me J
My life is in kaos all around, but I’m not taking drugs lol.  That right there is a bloody miracle lol.

Chick, I am so happy for you!! I really am! Are you happy? What have you replaced the drugs with? anything?
Do you work? If so, how is the job since you are drug free?
Hell, how are you handling life without drugs? Do you have a lot of idle time? Are you smoking more cigarettes? (if you smoke!! haha!)
wtg, callie

From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Reasons for Anger.
Date: April 11, 2006 at 4:19:43 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 4/11/2006 2:44:44 P.M. Central Standard Time, jon@mindvox.com writes:
walked up the Mountain, and
> when
> I reached the
>
> top. I said, GOD IF IT IS MY TIME TO GO I WILL SEE YOU IN A MINUTE MATE.
> And
> then I jumped
>
> off, knowing full well that out of blind Faith, GOD would catch me.

What mountain did you jump off Jiggy?

Three little tips for a content and happy life.
> Find someone to LOVE (yourself fist) Have and allow someone to LOVE
> you(GOD)
> and find
>
> something to do. Earn your money so as you have all that you require.
> Simple
> really.

It does sound simple but we know it isn’t. For one thing, I have trouble turning my mind off. I have trouble leaving the problems at home.
You gotta like your job too and right now I do not like mine worth a damn!
I should get out and find myself a different job but that is not easy when everyone has started doing background checks.
I am not a serial killer but I do have several shoplifting charges, a couple counts of forging prescriptions and four possession of controlled substance charges. Nothing really bad but bad enough to keep me from being hired at even cleaning jobs!! They have told me in the past that if something come up missing and the client or employer wants the employee backgrounds checked, they could be liable even if I were completely innocent because of the petty theft (shoplifting) charges.
Excuses, maybe but really I don’t think so.
So, I have been trying very hard to just be happy and grateful of the job I have but it is difficult when you aren’t enjoying yourself at all!

Damn, life can be a bummer, can’t it? That is why I love my opiates so fucking much! I have this fear in me that I will never be totally happy and will die with many regrets.
bumming out,
Callie

From: “Billy J” <billjohnson6@sympatico.ca>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Just a reply,to All This?Paul
Date: April 11, 2006 at 12:29:12 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

He Paul, whats this stuff about taking Iboga for masculinity?,Who,?
And you have taken Ibogaine and it has helped clean you Up?
What was your Experiance like and where you a person following Jesus preior to or after? Or who do you follow?
Did you see Jesus during your trip?

Talk about how You got there what the experiance was like along with your suggestions for a Ibogaine candidate, as well as what you have done for follow-up?

I do not really hear of anybody here that actually has a job that they work at?? and if so how long after stopping Methadone and or whatever where you and or ANYBODY, Capable ,Mentally and physically to go back to work.

Biill , And May God Help Us All ( I Know He Has Already)

—-Original Message Follows—-
From: Kirk <captkirk@clear.net.nz>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Kirk!
Date: Tue, 11 Apr 2006 09:56:06 +1200
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Thinking he who rants loudest and rudest could be the one who has lost the
plot.
Why are you attacking people so rudely on this list for them having an
opinion that differs from yours?
Think you need to question why that is.
Debate is cool, but you’re just being rude and not allowing for any other
opinion bar your own tunnel visioned one.
I hope YOU get to see the full picture one day.
In the meantime, I wish you well.
Kirk

—–Original Message—–
From: Paul Brookshaw [mailto:jiggy9@hotmail.co.uk]
Sent: Tuesday, 11 April 2006 9:23 a.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Kirk!

Hello Kirk,
I think what yoiu just said is crap. Pure egotistical rubbish.
Methadone lol
Let me tell you where i have just come from. OK
For the last 6 years I had been taking, 80mg of Methadone +, half a gram of
Scag, 600mg of Dihydracodine. 40mg of Certraline, 150mg of Valium, plus
little tickles in between of Moggys and Tamazapam. A bottle of vodka, plus 4

special brews. 3000mg of Gabapentin, 15 grms of weed, plus tobacco, and now
i am clean.
What do you mean by Methadone eh?
I took Iboga to stop myself from self anialation. You took it cos you whee
to masculine.
Get a life.
Seriously. You both deserve one another.
You’ve lost the plot completely.
Another one bites the dust. lolol>’~+

Blessings be with you and may you see fully one day. lolol
That is why I seem to moke OK?
Get it sorted.

Bless you Paul:)’

_________________________________________________________________
Are you using the latest version of MSN Messenger? Download MSN Messenger
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From: “Krista Vaughan” <krista.vaughan@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Missing emails
Date: April 11, 2006 at 3:05:33 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I don’t know, the only thing that seems to be true is what Mason (I
think?) said a few days ago, I never have any trouble on gmail either,
everything shows up and in the right order. Of course I’m sure Google
is archiving all of it forever like Vector’s repost said, but then I
don’t buy or sell drugs through email and if they want mailboxes full
of loonies ranting, good luck to Google 😉

KV

On 4/11/06, Kirk <captkirk@clear.net.nz> wrote:

What is up with the email thing?  One of mine got completely lost yesterday.
Thus the test email to see what was going on. Seems only to be the Ibogaine
list…….any consipiracy theories anyone? Lol or is Patrick asleep at the
wheel?

Luv n hugs

Kirk xx

________________________________

From: CallieMimosa@aol.com [mailto:CallieMimosa@aol.com]
Sent: Wednesday, 12 April 2006 6:18 a.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] NEW DRUG CP(OT!!)

In a message dated 4/11/2006 12:57:37 P.M. Central Standard Time,
ptpeet@nyc.rr.com writes:

It says right in the text on the first page of experiences that it’s a
“joke,” and if we read tyhe front page, it’s not put up by Vaults of
Erowid,
it’s put up by The Vaults of Meow.
So don’t lose respect for anyone Callie. It’s hilarious.

Yep Preston….I finally figured that out! It is hilarious!

You must be getting the Ibogaine e-mails in a fucked up order or something.
Mine have been fucked up too for the past week or so.

Example….you may reply to me now and I may not receive your reply until
tonight or even tomorrow, even though I am receiving other replies and posts
in the order they are sent.

Day before yesterday, I didn’t receive any Ibogaine posts until I went to
bed then woke up to 236 e-mails! Most of them Ibogaine!!

The cat piss was one of them. I somehow missed the one that said it was a
joke! Hell, I have heard of people ingesting all kinds of shit to hopefully
get the ‘ultimate trip’, so I figured cat piss was just as one more thing
some fucked up addict had tried!

I did feel pretty embarrassed and silly though for thinking it was true! So,
the joke got me and I wasn’t even an intended ‘butt of the joke’.

Callie


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From: Crooked Eye <iboganaut420@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Quest. to Dana: hermaline- Shah initiation
Date: April 10, 2006 at 9:11:40 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

actually, I reread what was said, and I know of passionflower as well that contains MAOI’s, so maybe it’s one of those or something similar…  poor reading, sorry..  :p

Crooked Eye <iboganaut420@yahoo.com> wrote:
the vine of the dead/soul for ayahausca is rich in harmala alkaloids, and is known as Banesteriopsis Caapi, but I believe you are speaking of Syrian Rue aka Peganum Harmala seeds, which are very high in harmala alkaloids..  Both provide MAO Inhibition, for aya brews and are said to have benefits by themselves…

pascall roland <pascal-roland@hotmail.com> wrote:
Dear Dana,

if not wrong hermaline can be extracted from a plant known in Persian as
Esfand and til day used here by many people to purify & protect themsleves
and their environment ( Esfand as a dried plant is used as incense ). Every
home keeps some Esfand to perform purification when necessary.

Question: where did you learn that the Persian Shah used hermaline for the
initiation? Which Shah and what kind of initiation?

thks/rgds

  1. Roland

>From: HSLotsof@aol.com
>Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
>To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
>Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Fwd: Gospel of Judas
>Date: Sun, 9 Apr 2006 14:00:31 EDT
>
>Dana,
>
>Just curious as to the language of your attached
>gospel_of_judas_iscariot.pdf
>as it breaks down the narrative into “scenes.” Is that language customary?
>
>Howard
>
>In a message dated 4/8/06 4:24:39 PM, dana@phantom.com writes:
>
> >
> > New gnostic gospel supports passover plot account, thereby buttressing
>the
> > role of Grail contents with neuro-protective properties as a forensic
> > explanation of what happened in the crucifixion and resurrection.
> >
> > I now believe that ibogaine may actually have been one of the
>ingredients in
> > the Grail mixture– because it makes the body  totally numb and able to
>take
> > being pierced without pain or flinching, and because it’s been patented
>for
> > ischemia, which is a kind of global stroke effect brought on during
> > Crucifixion by gradual suffocation caused by the windpipe being cut off
>when the
> > crucified would lean forward trying to rest. Other ingredients would
>have been
> > some harmaline and possibly cannabis, but not ephedra, which would be
> > unnecessary with the iboga.
> >
> > If Egyptian mummies have been found with traces of cocaine and nicotine
> > (from the Americas), they couldn’t have had that much trouble getting a
>bit of
> > root-bark from the sub-Sahara. Iboga originates with the Pygmy, who
>supposedly
> > had it before anyone else. Somewhere I heard or read (and maybe some
>one on
> > the list can provide the citation.) that the Pygmy first had it in the
>Rift
> > Valley, 20,000 years ago.
> >
> > So the theory is that harmaline was involved in the initiation of the
> > Persian Shah, iboga in the ordination of the Pharaoh. Christ claimed the
>mantel of
> > both, of course.
> >
> > Dana/cnw
> >
> >
> > Begin forwarded message:
> >
> >
> > From: “William T. Brennan”
> > Date: April 6, 2006 10:40:49 PM EDT
> > To: dana@phantom.com
> > Subject: Gospel of Judas
> >
> > Hi Dana,
> >
> > I hope all’s been well this week.
> >
> > You may have heard by now, but the Gospel of Judas has recently
>surfaced.
> > I’ve copied the NYT story below and have attached a translation of the
> > gospel.  The unquestionably gnostic thread running through it seems
>like it’s right
> > up your alley.
> >
> > Predictably, I’ve combed through it looking for potential mushroom
> > references that line up with other more obvious gnostic mushroom
>references (Heinrich,
> > 2002) and feel like I’ve found a few.  Here they are with some notes:
> >
> >
> >
> > “Often he did not appear to his disciples as himself, but he was found
>among
> > them as a child.”
> >
> >
> >
> > I would love to find out what Greek term was used for “child,” and
>to get
> > into its etymology.  I’m pretty sure that it’s in Greek mythology
>(note that
> > this gospel was originally written in Greek) that mushrooms are often
> > referred to in childish terms (e.g., the “little ones”).  This line
>is especially
> > suspect since the rest of the passage makes no reference to Jesus as a
>child.
> >
> >
> >
> > One day he was with his disciples in Judea, and he found them gathered
> > together and seated in pious observance. When he [approached] his
>disciples, [34]
> > gathered >>together and seated and offering a prayer of thanksgiving
>over the
> > bread, [he] laughed.
> > The disciples said to [him], “Master, why are you laughing at [our]
>prayer
> > of
> > thanksgiving? We have done what is right.”
> > He answered and said to them, “I am not laughing at you. are not
>doing
> > this because of your own will but because it is through this that your
>god
> > [will be] praised.”
> > They said, “Master, you are […] the son of our god.”
> > Jesus said to them, “How do you know me? Truly [I] say to you, no
>generation
> > of the people that are among you will know me.”
> > …
> > “When Jesus observed their lack of [understanding, he said] to them,
>“Why
> > has this agitation led you to anger? Your god who is within you and
>[…]”
> > …
> > “Knowing that Judas was reflecting upon something that was exalted,
>Jesus
> > said to him,
> > “Step away from the others and I shall tell you the mysteries of the
>kingdom.
> > ”
> >
> >
> >
> > Jesus seems to be mocking their “bread eating” ritual by noting that
>it’s
> > putting them in touch with a different god.  Judas, on the other hand,
>gets
> > favored and enters into “conversation” with Jesus because only he
>rightfully
> > identifies him.  As you know, different species of Amanitas look pretty
> > similar, and even when you find the right (psychoactive) one, they’re
>notoriously
> > hard to get a psychedelic trip out of.  Maybe this difficulty is
>what’s
> > contributing to their “praising of another god.”
> >
> >
> >
> > “A great angel, the enlightened divine Self-Generated, emerged from
>the
> > cloud.”
> >
> >
> >
> > Self-generated?  From the cloud?  Self-generation is unavoidable for a
> > Creator god, but this “great angel” was brought into being by a
>greater power.
> > Why would the text run the risk of coming across as self-contradictory
>by
> > dubbing him/her/it “self-created?”  This odd, quasi-incorrect
>description of the
> > angel sounds like a traditional mythic mushroom reference to me (i.e.,
>no
> > visible seed, springing up in the wake of clouds).
> >
> >
> >
> > I’m skeptical myself, but it’s worth thinking about.  In other news,
>the
> > postering is going really well on Long Island, and I’ll be getting
>started on
> > the NYU campus area soon as well (assuming no one else has hit it
>yet).  I’ve
> > got some more things to talk about, both related to the march and the
>Ibogaine
> > book, so I’ll talk to you soon.
> >
> > -Bill
> >
> > Here’s the NYT story:
> >
> > April 6, 2006
> > ‘Gospel of Judas’ Surfaces After 1,700 Years
> > By JOHN NOBLE WILFORD and LAURIE GOODSTEIN
> >
> > An early Christian manuscript, including the only known text of what
> > is known as the Gospel of Judas, has surfaced after 1,700 years. The
> > text gives new insights into the relationship of Jesus and the
> > disciple who betrayed him, scholars reported today. In this version,
> > Jesus asked Judas, as a close friend, to sell him out to the
> > authorities, telling Judas he will “exceed” the other disciples by
> > doing so.
> >
> > Though some theologians have hypothesized this, scholars who have
> > studied the new-found text said, this is the first time an ancient
> > document defends the idea.
> >
> > The discovery in the desert of Egypt of the leather-bound papyrus
> > manuscript, and now its translation, was announced by the National
> > Geographic Society at a news conference in Washington. The 26-page
> > Judas text is said to be a copy in Coptic, made around A. D. 300, of
> > the original Gospel of Judas, written in Greek the century before.
> >
> > Terry Garcia, an executive vice president of the geographic society,
> > said the manuscript, or codex, is considered by scholars and
> > scientists to be the most significant ancient, nonbiblical text to be
> > found in the past 60 years.
> >
> > “The codex has been authenticated as a genuine work of ancient
> > Christian apocryphal literature,” Mr. Garcia said, citing extensive
> > tests of radiocarbon dating, ink analysis and multispectral imaging
> > and studies of the script and linguistic style. The ink, for example,
> > was consistent with ink of that era, and there was no evidence of
> > multiple rewriting.
> >
> > “This is absolutely typical of ancient Coptic manuscripts,” said
> > Stephen Emmel, professor of Coptic studies at the University of
> > Munster in Germany. “I am completely convinced.”
> >
> > The most revealing passages in the Judas manuscript begins, “The
> > secret account of the revelation that Jesus spoke in conversation
> > with Judas Iscariot during a week, three days before he celebrated
> > Passover.”
> >
> > The account goes on to relate that Jesus refers to the other
> > disciples, telling Judas “you will exceed all of them. For you will
> > sacrifice the man that clothes me.” By that, scholars familiar with
> > Gnostic thinking said, Jesus meant that by helping him get rid of his
> > physical flesh, Judas will act to liberate the true spiritual self or
> > divine being within Jesus.
> >
> > Unlike the accounts in the New Testament Gospels of Matthew, Mark,
> > Luke and John, the anonymous author of the Gospel of Judas believed
> > that Judas Iscariot alone among the 12 disciples understood the
> > meaning of Jesus’ teachings and acceded to his will. In the diversity
> > of early Christian thought, a group known as Gnostics believed in a
> > secret knowledge of how people could escape the prisons of their
> > material bodies and return to the spiritual realm from which they came.
> >
> > Elaine Pagels, a professor of religion at Princeton who specializes
> > in studies of the Gnostics, said in a statement, “These discoveries
> > are exploding the myth of a monolithic religion, and demonstrating
> > how diverse — and fascinating — the early Christian movement
>really
> > was.”
> >
> > The Gospel of Judas is only one of many texts discovered in the last
> > 65 years, including the gospels of Thomas, Mary Magdalene and Philip,
> > believed to be written by Gnostics.
> >
> > The Gnostics’ beliefs were often viewed by bishops and early church
> > leaders as unorthodox, and they were frequently denounced as
> > heretics. The discoveries of Gnostic texts have shaken up Biblical
> > scholarship by revealing the diversity of beliefs and practices among
> > early followers of Jesus.
> >
> > As the findings have trickled down to churches and universities, they
> > have produced a new generation of Christians who now regard the Bible
> > not as the literal word of God, but as a product of historical and
> > political forces that determined which texts should be included in
> > the canon, and which edited out.
> >
> > For that reason, the discoveries have proved deeply troubling for
> > many believers. The Gospel of Judas portrays Judas Iscariot not as a
> > betrayer of Jesus, but as his most favored disciple and willing
> > collaborator.
> >
> > Scholars say that they have long been on the lookout for the Gospel
> > of Judas because of a reference to what was probably an early version
> > of it in a text called Against Heresies, written by Irenaeus, the
> > bishop of Lyons, about the year 180.
> >
> > Irenaeus was a hunter of heretics, and no friend of the Gnostics. He
> > wrote, “They produce a fictitious history of this kind, which they
> > style the Gospel of Judas.”
> >
> > Karen L. King, a professor of the history of early Christianity at
> > Harvard Divinity School, and an expert in Gnosticism who has not yet
> > read the manuscript released today, said that the Gospel of Judas may
> > well reflect the kinds of debates that arose in the second and third
> > century among Christians.
> >
> > “You can see how early Christians could say, if Jesus’s death was all
> > part of God’s plan, then Judas’s betrayal was part of God’s plan,”
> > said Ms. King, the author of several books on the Gospel of Mary. “So
> > what does that make Judas? Is he the betrayer, or the facilitator of
> > salvation, the guy who makes the crucifixion possible?”
> >
> > At least one scholar said the new manuscript does not contain
> > anything dramatic that would change or undermine traditional
> > understanding of the Bible. James M. Robinson, a retired professor of
> > Coptic studies at Claremont Graduate University, was the general
> > editor of the English edition of the Nag Hammadi library, a
> > collection of Gnostic documents discovered in Egypt in 1945.
> >
> > “Correctly understood, there’s nothing undermining about the Gospel
> > of Judas,” Mr. Robinson said in a telephone interview. He said that
> > the New Testament gospels of John and Mark both contain passages that
> > suggest that Jesus not only picked Judas to betray him, but actually
> > encouraged Judas to hand him over to those he knew would crucify him.
> >
> > Mr. Robinson’s book, “The Secrets of Judas: The Story of the
> > Misunderstood Disciple and his Lost Gospel” (Harper San Francisco,
> > April 2006), predicts the contents of the Gospel of Judas based on
> > his knowledge of Gnostic and Coptic texts, even though he was not
> > part of the team of researchers working on the document.
> >
> > The Egyptian copy of the gospel was written on 13 sheets of papyrus,
> > both front and back, and found in a multitude of brittle fragments.
> >
> > Rudolphe Kasser, a Swiss scholar of Coptic studies, directed the team
> > that reconstructed and translated the script. The effort, organized
> > by the National Geographic, was supported by Maecenas Foundation for
> > Ancient Art, in Basel, Switzerland, and the Waitt Institute for
> > Historical Discovery, an American nonprofit organization for the
> > application of technology in historical and scientific projects.
> >
> > The entire 66-page codex also contains a text titled James (also
> > known as First Apocalypse of James), a letter by Peter and a text of
> > what scholars are provisionally calling Book of Allogenes.
> >
> > Discovered in the 1970’s in a cavern near El Minya, Egypt, the
> > document circulated for years among antiquities dealers in Egypt,
> > then Europe and finally in the United States. It moldered in a safe-
> > deposit box at a bank in Hicksville, N. Y., for 16 years before being
> > bought in 2000 by a Zurich dealer, Frieda Nussberger-Tchacos. The
> > manuscript was given the name Codex Tchacos.
> >
> > When attempts to resell the codex failed, Ms. Nussberger-Tchacos
> > turned it over to the Maecenas Foundation for conservation and
> > translation.
> >
> > Mr. Robinson said that an Egyptian antiquities dealer offered to sell
> > him the document in 1983 for $3 million, but that he could not raise
> > the money. He criticized the scholars now associated with the
> > project, some of whom are his former students, because he said they
> > violated an agreement made years ago by Coptic scholars that new
> > discoveries should be made accessible to all qualified scholars.
> >
> > The manuscript will ultimately be returned to Egypt, where it was
> > discovered, and housed in the Coptic Museum in Cairo.
> >
> > Ted Waitt, the founder and former chief executive of Gateway, said
> > that his foundation, the Waitt Institute for Historical Discovery,
> > gave the National Geographic Society a grant of more than $1 million
> > to restore and preserve the manuscript and make it available to the
> > public.
> >
> > ” I didn’t know a whole lot until I got into this about the early
> > days of Christianity. It was just extremely fascinating to me,” Mr.
> > Waitt said in a telephone interview. He said he had no motivation
> > other than being fascinated by the finding. He said that after the
> > document was carbon dated and the ink tested, procedures his
> > foundation paid for, he had no question about its authenticity. “You
> > can potentially question the translation and the interpretation, he
> > said, but you can’t fake something like this. It would be impossible.”
> >
> >
> >
> >
>

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From: Kirk <captkirk@clear.net.nz>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Kirk!
Date: April 11, 2006 at 3:49:49 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Yes Callie, yes it is ;o)
And hey, nearly two months up for me J
My life is in kaos all around, but I’m not taking drugs lol.  That right there is a bloody miracle lol.
xx
From: CallieMimosa@aol.com [mailto:CallieMimosa@aol.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, 12 April 2006 7:38 a.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Kirk!

In a message dated 4/11/2006 2:28:07 P.M. Central Standard Time, captkirk@clear.net.nz writes:
Actually, Paul, thanks to you, I temporarily lost my sense of humor.  Thanks
to recent postings from you, it hath returned in all it’s glory ;o)
Good ole ego ay!! It does it’s job so well!!!!
hahahaha!! We are ALL here for a reason…..or two!! Isn’t it nice to be able to see that?
hugs to all, Callie

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From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Kirk!
Date: April 11, 2006 at 3:37:42 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 4/11/2006 2:28:07 P.M. Central Standard Time, captkirk@clear.net.nz writes:
Actually, Paul, thanks to you, I temporarily lost my sense of humor.  Thanks
to recent postings from you, it hath returned in all it’s glory ;o)
Good ole ego ay!! It does it’s job so well!!!!

hahahaha!! We are ALL here for a reason…..or two!! Isn’t it nice to be able to see that?
hugs to all, Callie

From: jon@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Reasons for Anger.
Date: April 11, 2006 at 3:42:45 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I am not going to copy and paste your entire post Jiggy. Your words in the
post are taken from the Bible, the book of Mathew, chapter 10…one of my
favorite chapters in the book of Matthew.
But Jiggy, why do you quote the Bible to us? We can all read!
Talk…..share your thoughts, not the thoughts of John the Baptist, Paul,
Jesus, Wayne Dyer, Stephen King……..I would like to hear from Jiggy.

ahahaha. oh, i see… so Matthew was a coke-head?

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From: jon@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Reasons for Anger.
Date: April 11, 2006 at 3:41:12 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

so… ummm… sheerly out of curiousity, what drug were you on when you
wrote this?

my guess would be cocaine. am i right?

Hello my Brothers and Sisters,
Some of you cannot handle the truth, so all I
can do this day

is give you some words of Wisdom, Recorded, but not proved, but definitely
a
Spiritual

Walk.

Little book, eat, digest, move create, whip the winds. lolol

Locca’Rappea’

Provide neither gold, nor silver, nor brass in you purses, Nor
scrip(Script
lolol Sorcery)

for your Journey, neither two coats, neither shoes, nor yet Staves, for
the
workmen is

worthy of his meat.

So I am angry yes? The little passage above puts the whole into
perspective.

Why harry so, with the worries of this world, when your Father in Heaven
has
already got it

all sorted for you.

And into whatsoever city ye shall enter, enquire who is worthy; and there
abide till ye go

thence.
And when ye come into a house, Salute it.

For it is a most beautiful work of the hand of Man and should be respected
as you should

respect your body. You make attempts each day to tidy and clean your
domain.
But you forget

that the Temple of you Spirit is your body. The saying, Cleanliness is
next
to Godliness,

counts to your body and not your Domain. Worldly Goods , corrupt the mind
and blind the

Spirit from the truth. You cannot eat your house or your car or your wife,
or your kids.
You cannot take them with you when you die, so why try and control, what
you
have when God

gave it to you freely. If you ask for nothing, God shall give you what you
require.

My Anger on this list is only justified, by the outlandish stupidity i see
before me.
Excuses.
Two words that, Junkies and addicts hate!lolol
GIVE UP!!!
Why do you need the crutch, when your legs work perfectly well in the
first
place:)
I had to reach complete Spiritual Death, just to kill my stupid head and
pride and pray

daily that GOD would brake my heart and rebuild me as I was born.
Out of Obedience to my body and my Spirit, God has seen fit to give me
back
my state of mind

and allow me to live my life to the full. I walked up the Mountain, and
when
I reached the

top. I said, GOD IF IT IS MY TIME TO GO I WILL SEE YOU IN A MINUTE MATE.
And
then I jumped

off, knowing full well that out of blind Faith, GOD would catch me. I pray
you all remember

that the Arm of the Lord is LONG. And his LOVE ENDURETH FOREVER. ETERNITY
is
very hard for

man to grasp in his heart, but logic tells us that ETERNITY is timeless.
No
Slavery, carries

no chain, no deceit, shall not ensnare.
So where is your blind Faith.
The payer is a simple one.
Serenity. GOD GRANT ME THE SERENITY TO ACCEPT THE THINGS I CANNOT CHANGE,
CHANGE THE THINGS

I CAN AND THE WISDOM TO KNOW THE DIFFEENCE!!!
Keep things simple folks. FLUSH IT!!! YOU WON@T DIE EVEN IF YOU THINK YOU
REALLY ARE lolol
Thought is a head fuck. lolol
Drink the water, eat the food.
Three little tips for a content and happy life.
Find someone to LOVE (yourself fist) Have and allow someone to LOVE
you(GOD)
and find

something to do. Earn your money so as you have all that you require.
Simple
really. It only

took me 23 years to see this, plus 20 years of chaos before lolol

Now for a great and most wondrous KEY.
IF the house be worthy, let your Peace come upon it. Respect your temples.
But if the house be not worthy of respect, let your Peace return to you.
You can only help yourself if you require and do. Obedience to self.

Here is the point of my Anger.

Whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear your words, when you depart out
of
that house or

City, Shake with vemanance, the dust off your feet.
For you waste your time and effort trying to explain yourself to those
that
have already

made up there own minds, that you are wrong and have no Valour.
This is real FOOD:)

You are sent forth as Sheep in the midst of Wolves, be ye then wise as
Serpents, and as

harmless as Doves.
But beware of Men:) for they will deliver you up to the Councils and they
will Scourge you in

there Synagogues. I wonder why lolol. FEAR:) That is why;)
You shall be brought before Governors and Kings, for the sake of your
Faith,
to give a

Testimony, and prove Witness.
So my fiends. When they deliver you up, take no thought how or what ye
shall
speak: For it

shall be given you in that same hour what you shall speak.
For it shall not be you that speaks, but the Spirit of your Father that
speaks for you.
The brother shall deliver up the brother to death, and the Father the
Child;
and the

Children shall rise up against there Parents, and cause them to be put to
death.
And ye shall be Hated of all Men for the Power of your FAITH; But he that
ENDUETH TO THE END

SHALL BE SAVED.
Be thou FAITHFUL unto DEATH, and I shall give you the Crown of Life. The
Gift given freely

by GOD, for out of your own Obedience, shall you attain the light of the
World, and allow

your Spirit to shine forth without distortion and cunning deceptions.
The Disciple is not above his Master, nor the Servant above his Lord.
I pray most sincerely that, you accept that you are MEN and not GODS. For
Pride blinds the

Spirit and makes the Heart cold.
Sharpen your faces as flint unto the Lord and narrow your path so that you
only see all the

good of the Kingdom. Praise God every minute of your waking hours, for the
most wonderful

gift of life. Before retiring, praise the Lord for keeping you safe this
day
and supplying

you with all your needs. Be content with what you already have, for out of
Obedience, GOD

shall surely Bless you and Yours.
Fear then not therefore: for there is nothing covered, that shall not be
revealed; and hid

that shall not be known.
What is told in Darkness, speak ye in light: and what ye hear in the ear,
Preach thee upon

the house tops.
Fear not them that kill the body, but are not able to kill the Spirit. But
fear the Lord thy

God with trembling, for he is able to destroy the body and the Soul in
HELL!!!~’

Sure I am angry. Angry at how stupid and sick I had made myself. I am
sorry
for being so

blind, but now am most joyful, that I ain’t DEAD yet!lolol!!!
Righteous Anger is not wrong, for it edifies the body, focuses the mind
and
sets your Spirit

Free.
I pray most eagerly and with prior knowledge that if you are Obedient to
the
will of GOD. You

shall inherit the earth. All the good fruits of the field and Herb and
animal of the earth shall

be yours, for succor and savour.
Br Good people, love each other and feed upon the word for without the
light
of the Spirit

guiding, you are most definitely lost. God has many Shepherds so do not be
disheartened, as

in the dark God can bring you too the light. How about letting go of all
the
baggage and

getting, letting God do the walking and the talking for you. He is a lot
better at it than

either you or I.
Through and onto unto Glory. Step out people and move to and find the
Higher
Ground, for the

waters rise swiftly and those that do not heed the warnings of the Word
shall drown in there

own seas of Hell and rap there heads in there weeds of indecision.
Arise at the Dawn and give thanks for the Lord shall deliver you this day
and place you upon

the Beach of life. BORA BORA is a most beautiful paradise lolol.
Have a full and most wonderful day my friends and pray remember, be
servants
unto your

temples and earn RESPECT, rightfully given.
Blessings and Heart felt Love to one and
all.
Bless you Paul;^’
Strength, Power and Honour, shall lead you to respect yourself and others.
Do not make

warfare for the sake of Warfare. I pray. Make LOVE!!! EAT the FODD, Drink
the water, praise

the Lord for your life, Always Amen’
Yashaweeeeeeee’ IeeaaaaaaaaAAAAAh’
LOCCO”
Peace!!!
Shalom^’~ Booshaaaaa’, BE
GOOD, CHILDEN OF

THE REVELUTION, MARCH ON UNTO Glory lolol;)~’          POWER:)!!!’
Pray for the Strength to overcome you enemies.
REMBER WE ARE MEN OF THE JUNGLE lolololololololol  ho ho ho ho Ha ha ha!!!
Bless lol~’^
Laters, I go to wash, Pray and eat. Drink the Water:) Edify your bodies
not
your minds:)
Question? When you by a real soft piece of clothing, why does the
Manufacture, stick two

coarse, Nylon, tickets inside. One at the back of the neck, one low on the
seem on the left,

and a Logo on the front. The tickets scratch like Hell.;(
(‘!’)~~~’    ^
No fear.
Come here headless Chicken, I am Hungry!  😉

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From: Kirk <captkirk@clear.net.nz>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Kirk!
Date: April 11, 2006 at 3:25:03 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Actually, Paul, thanks to you, I temporarily lost my sense of humor.  Thanks
to recent postings from you, it hath returned in all it’s glory ;o)
Good ole ego ay!! It does it’s job so well!!!!
Love light n Laughter
Koiky xxxxx

—–Original Message—–
From: Paul Brookshaw [mailto:jiggy9@hotmail.co.uk]
Sent: Tuesday, 11 April 2006 7:35 p.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Kirk!

Hello Kirsty,
At least it had the desired effect lolol
You now give me the respect I would expect to give others and not be treated

with contempt. Thankyou and Blessings be with you this day. lolol
Oh by the way, Jason, you are a man not a God. Get it sorted lolol
Strenght, Power and Honour shall lead you to respect yourself.
May the Love of God, and the Fellowship of the
Holy Spirit be with you and abide with you always, this day and for ever
more. Amen’
Heart felt Love and Blessings
Paul;)

Little and Humble.
I attack cos I see stupidity before me that is all.
Just think twice and you will be alright. Have a great day now xxx~~~’

From: Kirk <captkirk@clear.net.nz>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Kirk!
Date: Tue, 11 Apr 2006 09:56:06 +1200

Thinking he who rants loudest and rudest could be the one who has lost the
plot.
Why are you attacking people so rudely on this list for them having an
opinion that differs from yours?
Think you need to question why that is.
Debate is cool, but you’re just being rude and not allowing for any other
opinion bar your own tunnel visioned one.
I hope YOU get to see the full picture one day.
In the meantime, I wish you well.
Kirk

—–Original Message—–
From: Paul Brookshaw [mailto:jiggy9@hotmail.co.uk]
Sent: Tuesday, 11 April 2006 9:23 a.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Kirk!

Hello Kirk,
I think what yoiu just said is crap. Pure egotistical
rubbish.
Methadone lol
Let me tell you where i have just come from. OK
For the last 6 years I had been taking, 80mg of Methadone +, half a gram of
Scag, 600mg of Dihydracodine. 40mg of Certraline, 150mg of Valium, plus
little tickles in between of Moggys and Tamazapam. A bottle of vodka, plus
4

special brews. 3000mg of Gabapentin, 15 grms of weed, plus tobacco, and now
i am clean.
What do you mean by Methadone eh?
I took Iboga to stop myself from self anialation. You took it cos you whee
to masculine.
Get a life.
Seriously. You both deserve one another.
You’ve lost the plot completely.
Another one bites the dust. lolol>’~+

Blessings be with you and may you see fully one day. lolol
That is why I seem to moke OK?
Get it sorted.

Bless you Paul:)’

_________________________________________________________________
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From: Kirk <captkirk@clear.net.nz>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] NEW DRUG CP(OT!!)
Date: April 11, 2006 at 3:15:57 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Heyyy lookie there my email was released from the dark passages of cyber
space and plonked onto the list! This shulda arrived yesterday and why has
it come in with captkirk instead of Kirk like it normally does???? That’s a
bit weird isn’t it?
What oh what is up with the net?
ck

—–Original Message—–
From: captkirk@clear.net.nz [mailto:captkirk@clear.net.nz]
Sent: Tuesday, 11 April 2006 1:39 p.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] NEW DRUG CP(OT!!)

hehhe callie you got got.  Don’t worry, I got completely
sucked in by a recent hoax email with a website called
“Bonsai Kittens”.  Pays to look around and check out snopes!
lol.
Here kitty kitty.
Love KIrk xx

—– Original Message Follows —–
LMAO!!! duh! I am such a dumbass! I see the vaults of meow
now! I am sooooo   embarassed!
lmao!
sorry folks!
Callie

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From: captkirk <captkirk@clear.net.nz>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] NEW DRUG CP(OT!!)
Date: April 10, 2006 at 9:39:02 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

hehhe callie you got got.  Don’t worry, I got completely
sucked in by a recent hoax email with a website called
“Bonsai Kittens”.  Pays to look around and check out snopes!
lol.
Here kitty kitty.
Love KIrk xx

—– Original Message Follows —–
LMAO!!! duh! I am such a dumbass! I see the vaults of meow
now! I am sooooo   embarassed!
lmao!
sorry folks!
Callie

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From: “Paul Brookshaw” <jiggy9@hotmail.co.uk>
Subject: [Ibogaine] Reasons for Anger.
Date: April 11, 2006 at 7:15:38 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hello my Brothers and Sisters,
Some of you cannot handle the truth, so all I can do this day

is give you some words of Wisdom, Recorded, but not proved, but definitely a Spiritual

Walk.

Little book, eat, digest, move create, whip the winds. lolol

Locca’Rappea’

Provide neither gold, nor silver, nor brass in you purses, Nor scrip(Script lolol Sorcery)

for your Journey, neither two coats, neither shoes, nor yet Staves, for the workmen is

worthy of his meat.

So I am angry yes? The little passage above puts the whole into perspective.

Why harry so, with the worries of this world, when your Father in Heaven has already got it

all sorted for you.

And into whatsoever city ye shall enter, enquire who is worthy; and there abide till ye go

thence.
And when ye come into a house, Salute it.

For it is a most beautiful work of the hand of Man and should be respected as you should

respect your body. You make attempts each day to tidy and clean your domain. But you forget

that the Temple of you Spirit is your body. The saying, Cleanliness is next to Godliness,

counts to your body and not your Domain. Worldly Goods , corrupt the mind and blind the

Spirit from the truth. You cannot eat your house or your car or your wife, or your kids.
You cannot take them with you when you die, so why try and control, what you have when God

gave it to you freely. If you ask for nothing, God shall give you what you require.

My Anger on this list is only justified, by the outlandish stupidity i see before me.
Excuses.
Two words that, Junkies and addicts hate!lolol
GIVE UP!!!
Why do you need the crutch, when your legs work perfectly well in the first place:)
I had to reach complete Spiritual Death, just to kill my stupid head and pride and pray

daily that GOD would brake my heart and rebuild me as I was born.
Out of Obedience to my body and my Spirit, God has seen fit to give me back my state of mind

and allow me to live my life to the full. I walked up the Mountain, and when I reached the

top. I said, GOD IF IT IS MY TIME TO GO I WILL SEE YOU IN A MINUTE MATE. And then I jumped

off, knowing full well that out of blind Faith, GOD would catch me. I pray you all remember

that the Arm of the Lord is LONG. And his LOVE ENDURETH FOREVER. ETERNITY is very hard for

man to grasp in his heart, but logic tells us that ETERNITY is timeless. No Slavery, carries

no chain, no deceit, shall not ensnare.
So where is your blind Faith.
The payer is a simple one.
Serenity. GOD GRANT ME THE SERENITY TO ACCEPT THE THINGS I CANNOT CHANGE, CHANGE THE THINGS

I CAN AND THE WISDOM TO KNOW THE DIFFEENCE!!!
Keep things simple folks. FLUSH IT!!! YOU WON@T DIE EVEN IF YOU THINK YOU REALLY ARE lolol
Thought is a head fuck. lolol
Drink the water, eat the food.
Three little tips for a content and happy life.
Find someone to LOVE (yourself fist) Have and allow someone to LOVE you(GOD) and find

something to do. Earn your money so as you have all that you require. Simple really. It only

took me 23 years to see this, plus 20 years of chaos before lolol

Now for a great and most wondrous KEY.
IF the house be worthy, let your Peace come upon it. Respect your temples.
But if the house be not worthy of respect, let your Peace return to you.
You can only help yourself if you require and do. Obedience to self.

Here is the point of my Anger.

Whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear your words, when you depart out of that house or

City, Shake with vemanance, the dust off your feet.
For you waste your time and effort trying to explain yourself to those that have already

made up there own minds, that you are wrong and have no Valour.
This is real FOOD:)

You are sent forth as Sheep in the midst of Wolves, be ye then wise as Serpents, and as

harmless as Doves.
But beware of Men:) for they will deliver you up to the Councils and they will Scourge you in

there Synagogues. I wonder why lolol. FEAR:) That is why;)
You shall be brought before Governors and Kings, for the sake of your Faith, to give a

Testimony, and prove Witness.
So my fiends. When they deliver you up, take no thought how or what ye shall speak: For it

shall be given you in that same hour what you shall speak.
For it shall not be you that speaks, but the Spirit of your Father that speaks for you.
The brother shall deliver up the brother to death, and the Father the Child; and the

Children shall rise up against there Parents, and cause them to be put to death.
And ye shall be Hated of all Men for the Power of your FAITH; But he that ENDUETH TO THE END

SHALL BE SAVED.
Be thou FAITHFUL unto DEATH, and I shall give you the Crown of Life. The Gift given freely

by GOD, for out of your own Obedience, shall you attain the light of the World, and allow

your Spirit to shine forth without distortion and cunning deceptions.
The Disciple is not above his Master, nor the Servant above his Lord.
I pray most sincerely that, you accept that you are MEN and not GODS. For Pride blinds the

Spirit and makes the Heart cold.
Sharpen your faces as flint unto the Lord and narrow your path so that you only see all the

good of the Kingdom. Praise God every minute of your waking hours, for the most wonderful

gift of life. Before retiring, praise the Lord for keeping you safe this day and supplying

you with all your needs. Be content with what you already have, for out of Obedience, GOD

shall surely Bless you and Yours.
Fear then not therefore: for there is nothing covered, that shall not be revealed; and hid

that shall not be known.
What is told in Darkness, speak ye in light: and what ye hear in the ear, Preach thee upon

the house tops.
Fear not them that kill the body, but are not able to kill the Spirit. But fear the Lord thy

God with trembling, for he is able to destroy the body and the Soul in HELL!!!~’

Sure I am angry. Angry at how stupid and sick I had made myself. I am sorry for being so

blind, but now am most joyful, that I ain’t DEAD yet!lolol!!!
Righteous Anger is not wrong, for it edifies the body, focuses the mind and sets your Spirit

Free.
I pray most eagerly and with prior knowledge that if you are Obedient to the will of GOD. You

shall inherit the earth. All the good fruits of the field and Herb and animal of the earth shall

be yours, for succor and savour.
Br Good people, love each other and feed upon the word for without the light of the Spirit

guiding, you are most definitely lost. God has many Shepherds so do not be disheartened, as

in the dark God can bring you too the light. How about letting go of all the baggage and

getting, letting God do the walking and the talking for you. He is a lot better at it than

either you or I.
Through and onto unto Glory. Step out people and move to and find the Higher Ground, for the

waters rise swiftly and those that do not heed the warnings of the Word shall drown in there

own seas of Hell and rap there heads in there weeds of indecision.
Arise at the Dawn and give thanks for the Lord shall deliver you this day and place you upon

the Beach of life. BORA BORA is a most beautiful paradise lolol.
Have a full and most wonderful day my friends and pray remember, be servants unto your

temples and earn RESPECT, rightfully given.
Blessings and Heart felt Love to one and all.
Bless you Paul;^’
Strength, Power and Honour, shall lead you to respect yourself and others. Do not make

warfare for the sake of Warfare. I pray. Make LOVE!!! EAT the FODD, Drink the water, praise

the Lord for your life, Always Amen’
Yashaweeeeeeee’ IeeaaaaaaaaAAAAAh’ LOCCO” Peace!!!
Shalom^’~ Booshaaaaa’, BE GOOD, CHILDEN OF

THE REVELUTION, MARCH ON UNTO Glory lolol;)~’          POWER:)!!!’
Pray for the Strength to overcome you enemies.
REMBER WE ARE MEN OF THE JUNGLE lolololololololol  ho ho ho ho Ha ha ha!!! Bless lol~’^
Laters, I go to wash, Pray and eat. Drink the Water:) Edify your bodies not your minds:)
Question? When you by a real soft piece of clothing, why does the Manufacture, stick two

coarse, Nylon, tickets inside. One at the back of the neck, one low on the seem on the left,

and a Logo on the front. The tickets scratch like Hell.;(              (‘!’)~~~’    ^
No fear.
Come here headless Chicken, I am Hungry!  😉

_________________________________________________________________
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From: “Krista Vaughan” <krista.vaughan@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Re: ibogaine and insanity
Date: April 11, 2006 at 2:58:24 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Before ibogaine Paul was just angry and attacked people. The emotions
in his messages before and after are identical, just that after
ibogaine he’s started to fill them up with bible verse.

Good luck Paul! Hang in there.

KV

On 4/11/06, Preston Peet <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com> wrote:
Paul is the first person I’ve seen go completely, undeniably insane from
taking ibogaine (of course, I can’t remember what Paul was posting pre-ibo,
if he was actually posting here pre-ibo, so perhaps he’s always been
completely bonkers, hard to tell).
Are there are figures anywhere compiled that show how many people may have
had such adverse results (or have just plain “gone crazy”) from taking
ibogaine?

—–
“If God dropped acid, would he see people?”  ~Steven Wright

Peace, love and lotsof respect.
Preston Peet
ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor Underground- the Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations,
Astonishing Archaeology and Hidden History
Editor Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Columnist HighTimes mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —–
From: “Paul Brookshaw” <jiggy9@hotmail.co.uk>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Tuesday, April 11, 2006 11:44 AM
Subject: [Ibogaine] Reasons for Anger.

Hello my Brothers and Sisters,
Some of you cannot handle the truth, so all I
can do this day

is give you some words of Wisdom, Recorded, but not proved, but definitely
a Spiritual

Walk.

Little book, eat, digest, move create, whip the winds. lolol

Locca’Rappea’

Provide neither gold, nor silver, nor brass in you purses, Nor
scrip(Script lolol Sorcery)

for your Journey, neither two coats, neither shoes, nor yet Staves, for
the workmen is

worthy of his meat.

So I am angry yes? The little passage above puts the whole into
perspective.

Why harry so, with the worries of this world, when your Father in Heaven
has already got it

all sorted for you.

And into whatsoever city ye shall enter, enquire who is worthy; and there
abide till ye go

thence.
And when ye come into a house, Salute it.

For it is a most beautiful work of the hand of Man and should be respected
as you should

respect your body. You make attempts each day to tidy and clean your
domain. But you forget

that the Temple of you Spirit is your body. The saying, Cleanliness is
next to Godliness,

counts to your body and not your Domain. Worldly Goods , corrupt the mind
and blind the

Spirit from the truth. You cannot eat your house or your car or your wife,
or your kids.
You cannot take them with you when you die, so why try and control, what
you have when God

gave it to you freely. If you ask for nothing, God shall give you what you
require.

My Anger on this list is only justified, by the outlandish stupidity i see
before me.
Excuses.
Two words that, Junkies and addicts hate!lolol
GIVE UP!!!
Why do you need the crutch, when your legs work perfectly well in the
first place:)
I had to reach complete Spiritual Death, just to kill my stupid head and
pride and pray

daily that GOD would brake my heart and rebuild me as I was born.
Out of Obedience to my body and my Spirit, God has seen fit to give me
back my state of mind

and allow me to live my life to the full. I walked up the Mountain, and
when I reached the

top. I said, GOD IF IT IS MY TIME TO GO I WILL SEE YOU IN A MINUTE MATE.
And then I jumped

off, knowing full well that out of blind Faith, GOD would catch me. I pray
you all remember

that the Arm of the Lord is LONG. And his LOVE ENDURETH FOREVER. ETERNITY
is very hard for

man to grasp in his heart, but logic tells us that ETERNITY is timeless.
No Slavery, carries

no chain, no deceit, shall not ensnare.
So where is your blind Faith.
The payer is a simple one.
Serenity. GOD GRANT ME THE SERENITY TO ACCEPT THE THINGS I CANNOT CHANGE,
CHANGE THE THINGS

I CAN AND THE WISDOM TO KNOW THE DIFFEENCE!!!
Keep things simple folks. FLUSH IT!!! YOU WON@T DIE EVEN IF YOU THINK YOU
REALLY ARE lolol
Thought is a head fuck. lolol
Drink the water, eat the food.
Three little tips for a content and happy life.
Find someone to LOVE (yourself fist) Have and allow someone to LOVE
you(GOD) and find

something to do. Earn your money so as you have all that you require.
Simple really. It only

took me 23 years to see this, plus 20 years of chaos before lolol

Now for a great and most wondrous KEY.
IF the house be worthy, let your Peace come upon it. Respect your temples.
But if the house be not worthy of respect, let your Peace return to you.
You can only help yourself if you require and do. Obedience to self.

Here is the point of my Anger.

Whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear your words, when you depart out
of that house or

City, Shake with vemanance, the dust off your feet.
For you waste your time and effort trying to explain yourself to those
that have already

made up there own minds, that you are wrong and have no Valour.
This is real FOOD:)

You are sent forth as Sheep in the midst of Wolves, be ye then wise as
Serpents, and as

harmless as Doves.
But beware of Men:) for they will deliver you up to the Councils and they
will Scourge you in

there Synagogues. I wonder why lolol. FEAR:) That is why;)
You shall be brought before Governors and Kings, for the sake of your
Faith, to give a

Testimony, and prove Witness.
So my fiends. When they deliver you up, take no thought how or what ye
shall speak: For it

shall be given you in that same hour what you shall speak.
For it shall not be you that speaks, but the Spirit of your Father that
speaks for you.
The brother shall deliver up the brother to death, and the Father the
Child; and the

Children shall rise up against there Parents, and cause them to be put to
death.
And ye shall be Hated of all Men for the Power of your FAITH; But he that
ENDUETH TO THE END

SHALL BE SAVED.
Be thou FAITHFUL unto DEATH, and I shall give you the Crown of Life. The
Gift given freely

by GOD, for out of your own Obedience, shall you attain the light of the
World, and allow

your Spirit to shine forth without distortion and cunning deceptions.
The Disciple is not above his Master, nor the Servant above his Lord.
I pray most sincerely that, you accept that you are MEN and not GODS. For
Pride blinds the

Spirit and makes the Heart cold.
Sharpen your faces as flint unto the Lord and narrow your path so that you
only see all the

good of the Kingdom. Praise God every minute of your waking hours, for the
most wonderful

gift of life. Before retiring, praise the Lord for keeping you safe this
day and supplying

you with all your needs. Be content with what you already have, for out of
Obedience, GOD

shall surely Bless you and Yours.
Fear then not therefore: for there is nothing covered, that shall not be
revealed; and hid

that shall not be known.
What is told in Darkness, speak ye in light: and what ye hear in the ear,
Preach thee upon

the house tops.
Fear not them that kill the body, but are not able to kill the Spirit. But
fear the Lord thy

God with trembling, for he is able to destroy the body and the Soul in
HELL!!!~’

Sure I am angry. Angry at how stupid and sick I had made myself. I am
sorry for being so

blind, but now am most joyful, that I ain’t DEAD yet!lolol!!!
Righteous Anger is not wrong, for it edifies the body, focuses the mind
and sets your Spirit

Free.
I pray most eagerly and with prior knowledge that if you are Obedient to
the will of GOD. You

shall inherit the earth. All the good fruits of the field and Herb and
animal of the earth shall

be yours, for succor and savour.
Br Good people, love each other and feed upon the word for without the
light of the Spirit

guiding, you are most definitely lost. God has many Shepherds so do not be
disheartened, as

in the dark God can bring you too the light. How about letting go of all
the baggage and

getting, letting God do the walking and the talking for you. He is a lot
better at it than

either you or I.
Through and onto unto Glory. Step out people and move to and find the
Higher Ground, for the

waters rise swiftly and those that do not heed the warnings of the Word
shall drown in there

own seas of Hell and rap there heads in there weeds of indecision.
Arise at the Dawn and give thanks for the Lord shall deliver you this day
and place you upon

the Beach of life. BORA BORA is a most beautiful paradise lolol.
Have a full and most wonderful day my friends and pray remember, be
servants unto your

temples and earn RESPECT, rightfully given.
Blessings and Heart felt Love to one and
all.
Bless you Paul;^’
Strength, Power and Honour, shall lead you to respect yourself and others.
Do not make

warfare for the sake of Warfare. I pray. Make LOVE!!! EAT the FODD, Drink
the water, praise

the Lord for your life, Always Amen’
Yashaweeeeeeee’ IeeaaaaaaaaAAAAAh’ LOCCO”
Peace!!!
Shalom^’~ Booshaaaaa’, BE
GOOD, CHILDEN OF

THE REVELUTION, MARCH ON UNTO Glory lolol;)~’          POWER:)!!!’
Pray for the Strength to overcome you enemies.
REMBER WE ARE MEN OF THE JUNGLE lolololololololol  ho ho ho ho Ha ha ha!!!
Bless lol~’^
Laters, I go to wash, Pray and eat. Drink the Water:) Edify your bodies
not your minds:)
Question? When you by a real soft piece of clothing, why does the
Manufacture, stick two

coarse, Nylon, tickets inside. One at the back of the neck, one low on the
seem on the left,

and a Logo on the front. The tickets scratch like Hell.;(
(‘!’)~~~’    ^
No fear.
Come here headless Chicken, I am Hungry!  😉

Hello my Brothers and Sisters,
Some of you cannot handle the truth, so all I
can do this day is give you some words of Wisdom, Recorrded, but not
proved, but definitaly a Spiritual Walk.

Little book,eat, digest,move create, whip the winds. lolol

Locca’Rappea’

Provide neither gold, nor silver, nor brass in you purses, Nor
scrip(Script lolol Sorcery) for your Journey, neither two coats, neither
shoes, nor yet Staves, for the workmen is worthy of his meat.

So I am angry yes? The little passage above puts the whole into
perspective.

Why harry so, with the worries of this world, when your Father in Heaven
has already got it all sorted for you.

And into whatsoever city ye shall enter, enquire who is worthy; and there
abide till ye go thence.
And when ye come into a house, Salute it.

For it is a most beautiful work of the hand of Man and should be respected
as you should resect your body. You make attempts each day to tidy and
clean your domain. But you forget that the Temple of you Spirit is your
body. The saying, Cleanliness is next to Godleness, counts to your body
and not your Domain. Wordly Goods , corrupt the mind and blind the Spirit
from the truth. You cannot eat your house or your car or your wife, or
your kids.
You cannot take them with you when you die, so why try and control, what
you have when God gave it to you freely. If you ask for nothing, God shall
give you what you require.

My Anger on this list is only justified, by the outlandish stupidity i see
befoe me.
Excuses.
Two words that, Junkies and addicts hate!lolol
GIVE UP!!!
Why do you need the crutch, when your legs work perfectly well in the
first place:)
I had to reach complete Spiritual Death, just to kill my stupid head and
pride and pray daily that GOD would brake my heart and rebuild me as I was
born.
Out of Obedience to my body and my Spirit, God has seen fit to give me
back my state of mind and allow me to live my life to the full. I walked
up the Moutain, and when I reached the top. I said, GOD IF IT IS MY TIME
TO GO I WILL SEE YOU IN A MINUTE MATE.And then I jumped off, knowing full
well that out of blind Faith, GOD would catch me. I pray you all remembe
that the Arm of the Lord is LONG. And his LOVE ENDURETH FOREVER. ETERNITY
is very hard for man to grasp in his heart, but logic tells us that
ETERNITY is timeless. No Slavery, carries no chain, no deciet, shall not
ensnare.
So where is your blind Faith.
The payer is a simple one.
Serenity. GOD GRANT ME THE SERENITY TO ACCEPT THE THINGS I CANNOT CHANGE,
CHANGE THE THINGS I CAN AND THE wISDOM TO KNOW THE DIFFEENCE!!!
Keep things simple folks. FLUSH IT!!! YOU WON@T DIE EVEN IF YOU THINK YOU
REALLY ARE lolol
Thought is a head fuck. lolol
Drink the water, eat the food.
Three little tips for a content and happy life.
Find someone to LOVE (yourself fist) Have and allow someone to LOVE
you(GOD) and find something to do. Earn your money so as you have all that
you require. Simple really. It only took me 23 years to see this, plus 20
years of chaos before lolol

Now fo a gea t and most wonderious KEY.
IF the house be worthy, let your Peace come apon it. Respect your temples.
But if the house be not wothy of respect, let your Peace return to you.
You can only help youself if you require and do. Obedience to self.

Here is the point of my Anger.

Whosoever shall not recieve you, nor hear your words, when you depart out
of that house or City, Shake with vemance the dust off your feet.
For you waste your time and effort trying to explain yourself to those
that have already made up there own minds, that you are wrong and have no
Valour.
This is real FOOD:)

You are sent forth as Sheep in the midst of Wolves, be ye then wise as
Sepents, and as harmless as Doves.
But beware of Men:) for they will delive you up to the Councils and they
will Scorge you in there Synagogues. I wonder why lolol. FEAR:) That is
why;)
You shall be brought before Goveners and Kings, for the sake of your
Faith, to give a Testomonie, and prove Witness.
So my fiends. When they deliver you up, take no thought how or what ye
shall speek: For it shall be given you in that same hour what you shall
speak.
For it shall not be you that speaks, but the Spirit of your Father that
speaks for you.
The brother shall deliver up the brother to daeth, and the Father the
Child; and the Children shall rise up against there Parents, and cause
them to be put to death.
And ye shall be Hated of all Men for the Power of your FAITH; But he that
ENDUETH TO THE END SHALL BE SAVED.
Be thou FAITHFUL untoo DEATH, and I shall give you the Crown of Life. The
Gift given feely by GOD, for out of your own Obedience, shall you attain
the light of the World, and allow your Spirit to shine forth without
distortion and cunning deceptions.
The Desciple is not above his Master, nor the Servant above his Lord.
I pray most sincerely that, you accept that you are MEN and not GODS. For
Pride blinds the Spirit and makes the Heart cold.
Sharpen your faces as flint unto the Lod and narow your path so that you
only see all the good of the Kingdom. Praise God every minute of your
waking hours, for the most wonderfull gift of life. Before retiring,
praise the Lord for keeping you safe this day and supplying you with all
your needs. Be content with what you aleady have, fo out of Obedience, GOD
shall surely Bless you and Yours.
Fear then not therefore: fo there is nothing covered, that shall not be
revealed; and hid that shall not be known.
What is told in Darkness, speek ye in light: and what ye hear in the ear,
Preach thee apon the house tops.
Fear not them that kill the body, but are not able to kill the Spirit. But
fear the Lord thy God with trembling, for he is able to destroy the body
and the Soul in HELL!!!~’

Sure I am angry. Angry at how stupid and sick I had made myself. I am
sorry for being so blind, but now am most joyful, that I ain’t DEAD
yet!lolol!!!
Rightious Anger is not wrong, for it edifies the body, focuses the mind
and sets your Spirit Free.
I pray most eagely and with fo knowledge that if you ae Obedient to the
will of GOD. You shall inheit the eath. All the good fruits of the field
and heb and animal of the eath shall be yours, for succorr and savour.
Br Good people, love each other and feed apon the wod for without the
light of the Spirit guiding, you are most deffinitaly lost. God has many
Sheppards so do not be disheartend, as in the dark God can bring you too
the light. How about letting go of all the baggage and getting, letting
God do the walking and the talking for you. He is a lot better at it than
either you or I.
Through and onto unto Glory. Step out people and move to and find the
Higher Ground, for the waters rise swiftly and those that do not heed the
warnings of the Word shall drown in there own seas of Hell and rap there
heads in there weeds of indesision.
Arise at the Dawn and give thanks fo the Lord shall deliver you this day
and place you apon the Beach of life. BORA BORA is a most beautiful
paradise lolol.
Have a full and most wonderfull day my friends and pray remeber, be
servants unto your temples and earn RESPECT, rightfully given.
Blessings and Heart felt Love to one and
all.
Bless you Paul;^’
Strenght, Power and Honour, shall lead you to respect youself and others.
Do not make warfare for the sake of Warrfare. I pray. Make LOVE!!! EAT the
FODD, Drink the water, praise the Lord for your life, Always Amen’
Yashaweeeeeeee’ IeeaaaaaaaaAAAAAh’ LOCCO”
Peace!!!
Shalom^’~ Booshaaaaa’, BE
GOOD, CHILDEN OF THE REVELUTION, MARCH ON UNTO GLOrY lolol;)~’
POWER:)!!!’
Pray for the Strenght to ovecome you enemies.
REMBER WE ARE MEN OF THE JUNGLE lolololololololol  ho ho ho ho Ha ha ha!!!
Bless lol~’^
Laters, I go to wash, Pray and eat. Drink the Water:) Edify your bodies
not your minds:)
Question? When you by a real soft piece of clothing, why does the
Manufacture, stick two coarse, Nylon, tickets inside. One at the back of
the neck, one low on the seem on the left, and a Logo on the front. The
tickets scatch like Hell.;(              (‘!’)~~~’    ^
No fear.

_________________________________________________________________
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From: Kirk <captkirk@clear.net.nz>
Subject: [Ibogaine] Missing emails
Date: April 11, 2006 at 2:56:43 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

What is up with the email thing?  One of mine got completely lost yesterday.  Thus the test email to see what was going on. Seems only to be the Ibogaine list…….any consipiracy theories anyone? Lol or is Patrick asleep at the wheel?
Luv n hugs
Kirk xx

From: CallieMimosa@aol.com [mailto:CallieMimosa@aol.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, 12 April 2006 6:18 a.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] NEW DRUG CP(OT!!)

In a message dated 4/11/2006 12:57:37 P.M. Central Standard Time, ptpeet@nyc.rr.com writes:
It says right in the text on the first page of experiences that it’s a 
”joke,” and if we read tyhe front page, it’s not put up by Vaults of Erowid, 
it’s put up by The Vaults of Meow.
So don’t lose respect for anyone Callie. It’s hilarious.
Yep Preston….I finally figured that out! It is hilarious!
You must be getting the Ibogaine e-mails in a fucked up order or something. Mine have been fucked up too for the past week or so.
Example….you may reply to me now and I may not receive your reply until tonight or even tomorrow, even though I am receiving other replies and posts in the order they are sent.
Day before yesterday, I didn’t receive any Ibogaine posts until I went to bed then woke up to 236 e-mails! Most of them Ibogaine!!
The cat piss was one of them. I somehow missed the one that said it was a joke! Hell, I have heard of people ingesting all kinds of shit to hopefully get the ‘ultimate trip’, so I figured cat piss was just as one more thing some fucked up addict had tried!
I did feel pretty embarrassed and silly though for thinking it was true! So, the joke got me and I wasn’t even an intended ‘butt of the joke’.
Callie

–
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
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–
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.385 / Virus Database: 268.4.1/307 – Release Date: 04/10/2006

From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] Re: ibogaine and insanity
Date: April 11, 2006 at 12:40:09 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Paul is the first person I’ve seen go completely, undeniably insane from taking ibogaine (of course, I can’t remember what Paul was posting pre-ibo, if he was actually posting here pre-ibo, so perhaps he’s always been completely bonkers, hard to tell).
Are there are figures anywhere compiled that show how many people may have had such adverse results (or have just plain “gone crazy”) from taking ibogaine?

—–
“If God dropped acid, would he see people?”  ~Steven Wright

Peace, love and lotsof respect.
Preston Peet
ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor Underground- the Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations, Astonishing Archaeology and Hidden History
Editor Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Columnist HighTimes mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —– From: “Paul Brookshaw” <jiggy9@hotmail.co.uk>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Tuesday, April 11, 2006 11:44 AM
Subject: [Ibogaine] Reasons for Anger.

Hello my Brothers and Sisters,
Some of you cannot handle the truth, so all I can do this day

is give you some words of Wisdom, Recorded, but not proved, but definitely a Spiritual

Walk.

Little book, eat, digest, move create, whip the winds. lolol

Locca’Rappea’

Provide neither gold, nor silver, nor brass in you purses, Nor scrip(Script lolol Sorcery)

for your Journey, neither two coats, neither shoes, nor yet Staves, for the workmen is

worthy of his meat.

So I am angry yes? The little passage above puts the whole into perspective.

Why harry so, with the worries of this world, when your Father in Heaven has already got it

all sorted for you.

And into whatsoever city ye shall enter, enquire who is worthy; and there abide till ye go

thence.
And when ye come into a house, Salute it.

For it is a most beautiful work of the hand of Man and should be respected as you should

respect your body. You make attempts each day to tidy and clean your domain. But you forget

that the Temple of you Spirit is your body. The saying, Cleanliness is next to Godliness,

counts to your body and not your Domain. Worldly Goods , corrupt the mind and blind the

Spirit from the truth. You cannot eat your house or your car or your wife, or your kids.
You cannot take them with you when you die, so why try and control, what you have when God

gave it to you freely. If you ask for nothing, God shall give you what you require.

My Anger on this list is only justified, by the outlandish stupidity i see before me.
Excuses.
Two words that, Junkies and addicts hate!lolol
GIVE UP!!!
Why do you need the crutch, when your legs work perfectly well in the first place:)
I had to reach complete Spiritual Death, just to kill my stupid head and pride and pray

daily that GOD would brake my heart and rebuild me as I was born.
Out of Obedience to my body and my Spirit, God has seen fit to give me back my state of mind

and allow me to live my life to the full. I walked up the Mountain, and when I reached the

top. I said, GOD IF IT IS MY TIME TO GO I WILL SEE YOU IN A MINUTE MATE. And then I jumped

off, knowing full well that out of blind Faith, GOD would catch me. I pray you all remember

that the Arm of the Lord is LONG. And his LOVE ENDURETH FOREVER. ETERNITY is very hard for

man to grasp in his heart, but logic tells us that ETERNITY is timeless. No Slavery, carries

no chain, no deceit, shall not ensnare.
So where is your blind Faith.
The payer is a simple one.
Serenity. GOD GRANT ME THE SERENITY TO ACCEPT THE THINGS I CANNOT CHANGE, CHANGE THE THINGS

I CAN AND THE WISDOM TO KNOW THE DIFFEENCE!!!
Keep things simple folks. FLUSH IT!!! YOU WON@T DIE EVEN IF YOU THINK YOU REALLY ARE lolol
Thought is a head fuck. lolol
Drink the water, eat the food.
Three little tips for a content and happy life.
Find someone to LOVE (yourself fist) Have and allow someone to LOVE you(GOD) and find

something to do. Earn your money so as you have all that you require. Simple really. It only

took me 23 years to see this, plus 20 years of chaos before lolol

Now for a great and most wondrous KEY.
IF the house be worthy, let your Peace come upon it. Respect your temples.
But if the house be not worthy of respect, let your Peace return to you.
You can only help yourself if you require and do. Obedience to self.

Here is the point of my Anger.

Whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear your words, when you depart out of that house or

City, Shake with vemanance, the dust off your feet.
For you waste your time and effort trying to explain yourself to those that have already

made up there own minds, that you are wrong and have no Valour.
This is real FOOD:)

You are sent forth as Sheep in the midst of Wolves, be ye then wise as Serpents, and as

harmless as Doves.
But beware of Men:) for they will deliver you up to the Councils and they will Scourge you in

there Synagogues. I wonder why lolol. FEAR:) That is why;)
You shall be brought before Governors and Kings, for the sake of your Faith, to give a

Testimony, and prove Witness.
So my fiends. When they deliver you up, take no thought how or what ye shall speak: For it

shall be given you in that same hour what you shall speak.
For it shall not be you that speaks, but the Spirit of your Father that speaks for you.
The brother shall deliver up the brother to death, and the Father the Child; and the

Children shall rise up against there Parents, and cause them to be put to death.
And ye shall be Hated of all Men for the Power of your FAITH; But he that ENDUETH TO THE END

SHALL BE SAVED.
Be thou FAITHFUL unto DEATH, and I shall give you the Crown of Life. The Gift given freely

by GOD, for out of your own Obedience, shall you attain the light of the World, and allow

your Spirit to shine forth without distortion and cunning deceptions.
The Disciple is not above his Master, nor the Servant above his Lord.
I pray most sincerely that, you accept that you are MEN and not GODS. For Pride blinds the

Spirit and makes the Heart cold.
Sharpen your faces as flint unto the Lord and narrow your path so that you only see all the

good of the Kingdom. Praise God every minute of your waking hours, for the most wonderful

gift of life. Before retiring, praise the Lord for keeping you safe this day and supplying

you with all your needs. Be content with what you already have, for out of Obedience, GOD

shall surely Bless you and Yours.
Fear then not therefore: for there is nothing covered, that shall not be revealed; and hid

that shall not be known.
What is told in Darkness, speak ye in light: and what ye hear in the ear, Preach thee upon

the house tops.
Fear not them that kill the body, but are not able to kill the Spirit. But fear the Lord thy

God with trembling, for he is able to destroy the body and the Soul in HELL!!!~’

Sure I am angry. Angry at how stupid and sick I had made myself. I am sorry for being so

blind, but now am most joyful, that I ain’t DEAD yet!lolol!!!
Righteous Anger is not wrong, for it edifies the body, focuses the mind and sets your Spirit

Free.
I pray most eagerly and with prior knowledge that if you are Obedient to the will of GOD. You

shall inherit the earth. All the good fruits of the field and Herb and animal of the earth shall

be yours, for succor and savour.
Br Good people, love each other and feed upon the word for without the light of the Spirit

guiding, you are most definitely lost. God has many Shepherds so do not be disheartened, as

in the dark God can bring you too the light. How about letting go of all the baggage and

getting, letting God do the walking and the talking for you. He is a lot better at it than

either you or I.
Through and onto unto Glory. Step out people and move to and find the Higher Ground, for the

waters rise swiftly and those that do not heed the warnings of the Word shall drown in there

own seas of Hell and rap there heads in there weeds of indecision.
Arise at the Dawn and give thanks for the Lord shall deliver you this day and place you upon

the Beach of life. BORA BORA is a most beautiful paradise lolol.
Have a full and most wonderful day my friends and pray remember, be servants unto your

temples and earn RESPECT, rightfully given.
Blessings and Heart felt Love to one and all.
Bless you Paul;^’
Strength, Power and Honour, shall lead you to respect yourself and others. Do not make

warfare for the sake of Warfare. I pray. Make LOVE!!! EAT the FODD, Drink the water, praise

the Lord for your life, Always Amen’
Yashaweeeeeeee’ IeeaaaaaaaaAAAAAh’ LOCCO” Peace!!!
Shalom^’~ Booshaaaaa’, BE GOOD, CHILDEN OF

THE REVELUTION, MARCH ON UNTO Glory lolol;)~’          POWER:)!!!’
Pray for the Strength to overcome you enemies.
REMBER WE ARE MEN OF THE JUNGLE lolololololololol  ho ho ho ho Ha ha ha!!! Bless lol~’^
Laters, I go to wash, Pray and eat. Drink the Water:) Edify your bodies not your minds:)
Question? When you by a real soft piece of clothing, why does the Manufacture, stick two

coarse, Nylon, tickets inside. One at the back of the neck, one low on the seem on the left,

and a Logo on the front. The tickets scratch like Hell.;( (‘!’)~~~’    ^
No fear.
Come here headless Chicken, I am Hungry!  😉

Hello my Brothers and Sisters,
Some of you cannot handle the truth, so all I can do this day is give you some words of Wisdom, Recorrded, but not proved, but definitaly a Spiritual Walk.

Little book,eat, digest,move create, whip the winds. lolol

Locca’Rappea’

Provide neither gold, nor silver, nor brass in you purses, Nor scrip(Script lolol Sorcery) for your Journey, neither two coats, neither shoes, nor yet Staves, for the workmen is worthy of his meat.

So I am angry yes? The little passage above puts the whole into perspective.

Why harry so, with the worries of this world, when your Father in Heaven has already got it all sorted for you.

And into whatsoever city ye shall enter, enquire who is worthy; and there abide till ye go thence.
And when ye come into a house, Salute it.

For it is a most beautiful work of the hand of Man and should be respected as you should resect your body. You make attempts each day to tidy and clean your domain. But you forget that the Temple of you Spirit is your body. The saying, Cleanliness is next to Godleness, counts to your body and not your Domain. Wordly Goods , corrupt the mind and blind the Spirit from the truth. You cannot eat your house or your car or your wife, or your kids.
You cannot take them with you when you die, so why try and control, what you have when God gave it to you freely. If you ask for nothing, God shall give you what you require.

My Anger on this list is only justified, by the outlandish stupidity i see befoe me.
Excuses.
Two words that, Junkies and addicts hate!lolol
GIVE UP!!!
Why do you need the crutch, when your legs work perfectly well in the first place:)
I had to reach complete Spiritual Death, just to kill my stupid head and pride and pray daily that GOD would brake my heart and rebuild me as I was born.
Out of Obedience to my body and my Spirit, God has seen fit to give me back my state of mind and allow me to live my life to the full. I walked up the Moutain, and when I reached the top. I said, GOD IF IT IS MY TIME TO GO I WILL SEE YOU IN A MINUTE MATE.And then I jumped off, knowing full well that out of blind Faith, GOD would catch me. I pray you all remembe that the Arm of the Lord is LONG. And his LOVE ENDURETH FOREVER. ETERNITY is very hard for man to grasp in his heart, but logic tells us that ETERNITY is timeless. No Slavery, carries no chain, no deciet, shall not ensnare.
So where is your blind Faith.
The payer is a simple one.
Serenity. GOD GRANT ME THE SERENITY TO ACCEPT THE THINGS I CANNOT CHANGE, CHANGE THE THINGS I CAN AND THE wISDOM TO KNOW THE DIFFEENCE!!!
Keep things simple folks. FLUSH IT!!! YOU WON@T DIE EVEN IF YOU THINK YOU REALLY ARE lolol
Thought is a head fuck. lolol
Drink the water, eat the food.
Three little tips for a content and happy life.
Find someone to LOVE (yourself fist) Have and allow someone to LOVE you(GOD) and find something to do. Earn your money so as you have all that you require. Simple really. It only took me 23 years to see this, plus 20 years of chaos before lolol

Now fo a gea t and most wonderious KEY.
IF the house be worthy, let your Peace come apon it. Respect your temples.
But if the house be not wothy of respect, let your Peace return to you.
You can only help youself if you require and do. Obedience to self.

Here is the point of my Anger.

Whosoever shall not recieve you, nor hear your words, when you depart out of that house or City, Shake with vemance the dust off your feet.
For you waste your time and effort trying to explain yourself to those that have already made up there own minds, that you are wrong and have no Valour.
This is real FOOD:)

You are sent forth as Sheep in the midst of Wolves, be ye then wise as Sepents, and as harmless as Doves.
But beware of Men:) for they will delive you up to the Councils and they will Scorge you in there Synagogues. I wonder why lolol. FEAR:) That is why;)
You shall be brought before Goveners and Kings, for the sake of your Faith, to give a Testomonie, and prove Witness.
So my fiends. When they deliver you up, take no thought how or what ye shall speek: For it shall be given you in that same hour what you shall speak.
For it shall not be you that speaks, but the Spirit of your Father that speaks for you.
The brother shall deliver up the brother to daeth, and the Father the Child; and the Children shall rise up against there Parents, and cause them to be put to death.
And ye shall be Hated of all Men for the Power of your FAITH; But he that ENDUETH TO THE END SHALL BE SAVED.
Be thou FAITHFUL untoo DEATH, and I shall give you the Crown of Life. The Gift given feely by GOD, for out of your own Obedience, shall you attain the light of the World, and allow your Spirit to shine forth without distortion and cunning deceptions.
The Desciple is not above his Master, nor the Servant above his Lord.
I pray most sincerely that, you accept that you are MEN and not GODS. For Pride blinds the Spirit and makes the Heart cold.
Sharpen your faces as flint unto the Lod and narow your path so that you only see all the good of the Kingdom. Praise God every minute of your waking hours, for the most wonderfull gift of life. Before retiring, praise the Lord for keeping you safe this day and supplying you with all your needs. Be content with what you aleady have, fo out of Obedience, GOD shall surely Bless you and Yours.
Fear then not therefore: fo there is nothing covered, that shall not be revealed; and hid that shall not be known.
What is told in Darkness, speek ye in light: and what ye hear in the ear, Preach thee apon the house tops.
Fear not them that kill the body, but are not able to kill the Spirit. But fear the Lord thy God with trembling, for he is able to destroy the body and the Soul in HELL!!!~’

Sure I am angry. Angry at how stupid and sick I had made myself. I am sorry for being so blind, but now am most joyful, that I ain’t DEAD yet!lolol!!!
Rightious Anger is not wrong, for it edifies the body, focuses the mind and sets your Spirit Free.
I pray most eagely and with fo knowledge that if you ae Obedient to the will of GOD. You shall inheit the eath. All the good fruits of the field and heb and animal of the eath shall be yours, for succorr and savour.
Br Good people, love each other and feed apon the wod for without the light of the Spirit guiding, you are most deffinitaly lost. God has many Sheppards so do not be disheartend, as in the dark God can bring you too the light. How about letting go of all the baggage and getting, letting God do the walking and the talking for you. He is a lot better at it than either you or I.
Through and onto unto Glory. Step out people and move to and find the Higher Ground, for the waters rise swiftly and those that do not heed the warnings of the Word shall drown in there own seas of Hell and rap there heads in there weeds of indesision.
Arise at the Dawn and give thanks fo the Lord shall deliver you this day and place you apon the Beach of life. BORA BORA is a most beautiful paradise lolol.
Have a full and most wonderfull day my friends and pray remeber, be servants unto your temples and earn RESPECT, rightfully given.
Blessings and Heart felt Love to one and all.
Bless you Paul;^’
Strenght, Power and Honour, shall lead you to respect youself and others. Do not make warfare for the sake of Warrfare. I pray. Make LOVE!!! EAT the FODD, Drink the water, praise the Lord for your life, Always Amen’
Yashaweeeeeeee’ IeeaaaaaaaaAAAAAh’ LOCCO” Peace!!!
Shalom^’~ Booshaaaaa’, BE GOOD, CHILDEN OF THE REVELUTION, MARCH ON UNTO GLOrY lolol;)~’ POWER:)!!!’
Pray for the Strenght to ovecome you enemies.
REMBER WE ARE MEN OF THE JUNGLE lolololololololol  ho ho ho ho Ha ha ha!!! Bless lol~’^
Laters, I go to wash, Pray and eat. Drink the Water:) Edify your bodies not your minds:)
Question? When you by a real soft piece of clothing, why does the Manufacture, stick two coarse, Nylon, tickets inside. One at the back of the neck, one low on the seem on the left, and a Logo on the front. The tickets scatch like Hell.;(              (‘!’)~~~’    ^
No fear.

_________________________________________________________________
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From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Reasons for Anger.
Date: April 11, 2006 at 2:07:05 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I am not going to copy and paste your entire post Jiggy. Your words in the post are taken from the Bible, the book of Mathew, chapter 10…one of my favorite chapters in the book of Matthew.
But Jiggy, why do you quote the Bible to us? We can all read!
Talk…..share your thoughts, not the thoughts of John the Baptist, Paul, Jesus, Wayne Dyer, Stephen King……..I would like to hear from Jiggy.
Callie

From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] NEW DRUG CP(OT!!)
Date: April 11, 2006 at 2:18:08 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 4/11/2006 12:57:37 P.M. Central Standard Time, ptpeet@nyc.rr.com writes:
It says right in the text on the first page of experiences that it’s a
“joke,” and if we read tyhe front page, it’s not put up by Vaults of Erowid,
it’s put up by The Vaults of Meow.
So don’t lose respect for anyone Callie. It’s hilarious.

Yep Preston….I finally figured that out! It is hilarious!
You must be getting the Ibogaine e-mails in a fucked up order or something. Mine have been fucked up too for the past week or so.
Example….you may reply to me now and I may not receive your reply until tonight or even tomorrow, even though I am receiving other replies and posts in the order they are sent.
Day before yesterday, I didn’t receive any Ibogaine posts until I went to bed then woke up to 236 e-mails! Most of them Ibogaine!!
The cat piss was one of them. I somehow missed the one that said it was a joke! Hell, I have heard of people ingesting all kinds of shit to hopefully get the ‘ultimate trip’, so I figured cat piss was just as one more thing some fucked up addict had tried!
I did feel pretty embarrassed and silly though for thinking it was true! So, the joke got me and I wasn’t even an intended ‘butt of the joke’.
Callie

From: “Paul Brookshaw” <jiggy9@hotmail.co.uk>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Kirk!
Date: April 11, 2006 at 3:35:18 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hello Kirsty,
At least it had the desired effect lolol
You now give me the respect I would expect to give others and not be treated with contempt. Thankyou and Blessings be with you this day. lolol
Oh by the way, Jason, you are a man not a God. Get it sorted lolol
Strenght, Power and Honour shall lead you to respect yourself.
May the Love of God, and the Fellowship of the Holy Spirit be with you and abide with you always, this day and for ever more. Amen’
Heart felt Love and Blessings Paul;)
Little and Humble.
I attack cos I see stupidity before me that is all.
Just think twice and you will be alright. Have a great day now xxx~~~’

From: Kirk <captkirk@clear.net.nz>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Kirk!
Date: Tue, 11 Apr 2006 09:56:06 +1200

Thinking he who rants loudest and rudest could be the one who has lost the
plot.
Why are you attacking people so rudely on this list for them having an
opinion that differs from yours?
Think you need to question why that is.
Debate is cool, but you’re just being rude and not allowing for any other
opinion bar your own tunnel visioned one.
I hope YOU get to see the full picture one day.
In the meantime, I wish you well.
Kirk

—–Original Message—–
From: Paul Brookshaw [mailto:jiggy9@hotmail.co.uk]
Sent: Tuesday, 11 April 2006 9:23 a.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Kirk!

Hello Kirk,
I think what yoiu just said is crap. Pure egotistical rubbish.
Methadone lol
Let me tell you where i have just come from. OK
For the last 6 years I had been taking, 80mg of Methadone +, half a gram of
Scag, 600mg of Dihydracodine. 40mg of Certraline, 150mg of Valium, plus
little tickles in between of Moggys and Tamazapam. A bottle of vodka, plus 4

special brews. 3000mg of Gabapentin, 15 grms of weed, plus tobacco, and now
i am clean.
What do you mean by Methadone eh?
I took Iboga to stop myself from self anialation. You took it cos you whee
to masculine.
Get a life.
Seriously. You both deserve one another.
You’ve lost the plot completely.
Another one bites the dust. lolol>’~+

Blessings be with you and may you see fully one day. lolol
That is why I seem to moke OK?
Get it sorted.

Bless you Paul:)’

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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] NEW DRUG CP(OT!!)
Date: April 11, 2006 at 4:42:48 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

It says right in the text on the first page of experiences that it’s a “joke,” and if we read tyhe front page, it’s not put up by Vaults of Erowid, it’s put up by The Vaults of Meow.
So don’t lose respect for anyone Callie. It’s hilarious.

—–
“If God dropped acid, would he see people?”  ~Steven Wright

Peace, love and lotsof respect.
Preston Peet
ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor Underground- the Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations, Astonishing Archaeology and Hidden History
Editor Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Columnist HighTimes mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —– From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Monday, April 10, 2006 8:52 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] NEW DRUG CP(OT!!)

LMAO! I went back and read the experiences and now I know it is a hoax! Come on people!! Are you that fucking hard up that you would inject cat pee?!! I hope not!
One way I know it is a hoax, reading Boobs Mefeely said they went to pharmacy bought 1ml insulin syringe then emptied contents and then drew up cat pee! Never bought an insulin syringe already loaded with something from pharmacy.
In fact my respect for vaults has substantially lessened due to this shit!
Callie

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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Fwd: Back to Preston
Date: April 11, 2006 at 4:54:14 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

but you
could be sincere for once in your life. Surley, Just once. Bless you Preston Peet and I pray you get it sorted:)<

Why do those I’m sure I’d hang out with least insist on praying for me most? Why do those who tell me they’re praying for me always seem the least happy people? Why do their prayers never ever seem really sincere anyway? Why don’t they pray for themselves and leave me alone?
Paul, I think you’ve done one heck of a lot of acid (or ibogaine?) or something. Take a chill pill and relax already. Why are you lashing out at me for someone else? Don’t you think if someone else were (still?) angry or even upset at me, I’d hear about it, from them instead of you? Oh hold on, the key word there is “think” and you seem to be doing more “imagining” than actual “thinking.”
Why am I bothering answering the crazy guy? I don’t know, ’cause it’s not yet 5AM and I’ve already been up nearly 2 hours now?

—–
“If God dropped acid, would he see Paul Brookshaw?” – Preston Peet

Peace, love and lotsof respect.
Preston Peet
ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor Underground- the Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations, Astonishing Archaeology and Hidden History
Editor Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Columnist HighTimes mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —– From: “Paul Brookshaw” <jiggy9@hotmail.co.uk>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Monday, April 10, 2006 4:59 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Fwd: Back to Preston

Wow Preston and I thought you might of had some savy. Photos on your web site.
You shouldn’t of done it. OK The people were only trying to help you. That is what I meant OK!!!
Better than a Lie cos it was the truth, but you shouldn’t of put it on the Web, in Photos. That is what I ment by you couldn’t have it for yourself, so you ripped it down.
OK?
You made me angry and also others that tryed to help you.
You should of thought twice mate, cos I doubt if you will be welcome for quite a while.
As Sara’ said, it is like inviting the wrong people to your house. How would you like me to say, publish something of you that was personnal like. It would hurt, wouldn’t it.
Don saw what you did, when he said with suprise. Der, nice one Preston.
Now you see, now you understand.
You should of asked, at least.
Sara’ was only trying to help you and you chucked it in her face.
Not nice or clever, was it.
Didn’t have much love or compassion, and deffinitaly no Grace.
How often do you eat Sunday dinner without Gravy? Eh!!!
You should make amends mate, or is it just a carear thing with you.
Gready?
Bless you bro and I pray you see now. Once bitten twice shy. Twice bitten, Foolish?
I suppose I can leave you now to sort things yourself.
Understood you can’t roll back the clock and change what you did, but you could be sincere for once in your life. Surley, Just once. Be a Gentleman.

Bless you Preston Peet and I pray you get it sorted:)

Paul;)’

_________________________________________________________________
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From: Vector Vector <vector620022002@yahoo.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] Go Dana!
Date: April 11, 2006 at 10:23:31 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Old post by Tom Weiss but I’ve never seen it before

.:vector:.

MEDICAL MARIJUANA AND IBOGAINE
TOM WEISS (DEMOCRAT) FOR U.S. SENATE
THE INITIAL PLATFORM (PART III)
MEDICAL MARIJUANA AND IBOGAINE

http://tomweissdemocratforussenate.blogspot.com/2005/10/medical-marijuana-and-ibogaine.html

As “Cures-Not-Wars” founder Dana Beal has shown, in speeches and much
literature, there is a wealth of scientific evidence establishing the
reality that cannabis, a.k.a. marijuana, when appropriately used under
medical supervision, is an herb with major therapeutic qualities
beneficial in the treatment of illness including glaucoma, depression,
Alzheimer’s, and cancer. The story of glaucoma victim, Elvy Musikka, of
Florida, is indicative. As reported some years ago in UP FRONT News,
Ms. Musikka`s virulent glaucoma was not slowed down by 12 eye
surgeries. On the advice of one of her doctors, she – for the first
time – tried marijuana, with the herb immediately stopping the advance
of her disease. She wound up having to fight her way up through the
federal courts, and won the right to participate in a federal
government program which dispenses prescribed marijuana. Without the
pot, she would have gone completely blind, as my father did, from the
same disease.

Ibogaine is a naturally occurring substance derived from the iboga
tree, which grows primarily in the African nation of Gabon. Under
scientific testing conditions, ibogaine has been found to be effective
in stopping addiction to hard drugs such as heroin and cocaine.

Hillary Clinton’s and George W. Bush’s “War on drugs” is a war on the
victims of drugs. It punishes the innocent, the creative, and the ill.
There is little doubt in my mind that, had Bill Clinton inhaled, his
presidency might well have been characterized by less corruption and
greater respect for the human rights of people other than himself and
his narcissistic wife.

As a U.S. Senator, I intend to introduce legislation legalizing the use
of marijuana under medical supervision for the treatment of illnesses
deemed to respond to such therapy. I will also introduce legislation
authorizing $1 billion annually for five years to finance further
research into the medical uses of marijuana.

Similarily, as regards ibogaine, I will introduce legislation to
finance a scientific task force to further study the substance, from
its growth and use in, for example, Gabon, to its potential importation
for use here, in the treatment of drug addiction. I will also ask for
additional funds for the U.S. Food and Drug Administration to give
priority consideration to evaluation of ibogaine in medicinal form.

And Hillary can just continue holding her breath.

Tom Weiss
August 20, 2005
Tomsupfrontnews@yahoo.com and/or
wwilligan@aol.com
www.Tomsupfrontnews.blogspot.com
posted by Tom Weiss at 8:25 PM

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From: “Paul Brookshaw” <jiggy9@hotmail.co.uk>
Subject: [Ibogaine] Reasons for Anger.
Date: April 11, 2006 at 11:44:07 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hello my Brothers and Sisters,
Some of you cannot handle the truth, so all I can do this day

is give you some words of Wisdom, Recorded, but not proved, but definitely a Spiritual

Walk.

Little book, eat, digest, move create, whip the winds. lolol

Locca’Rappea’

Provide neither gold, nor silver, nor brass in you purses, Nor scrip(Script lolol Sorcery)

for your Journey, neither two coats, neither shoes, nor yet Staves, for the workmen is

worthy of his meat.

So I am angry yes? The little passage above puts the whole into perspective.

Why harry so, with the worries of this world, when your Father in Heaven has already got it

all sorted for you.

And into whatsoever city ye shall enter, enquire who is worthy; and there abide till ye go

thence.
And when ye come into a house, Salute it.

For it is a most beautiful work of the hand of Man and should be respected as you should

respect your body. You make attempts each day to tidy and clean your domain. But you forget

that the Temple of you Spirit is your body. The saying, Cleanliness is next to Godliness,

counts to your body and not your Domain. Worldly Goods , corrupt the mind and blind the

Spirit from the truth. You cannot eat your house or your car or your wife, or your kids.
You cannot take them with you when you die, so why try and control, what you have when God

gave it to you freely. If you ask for nothing, God shall give you what you require.

My Anger on this list is only justified, by the outlandish stupidity i see before me.
Excuses.
Two words that, Junkies and addicts hate!lolol
GIVE UP!!!
Why do you need the crutch, when your legs work perfectly well in the first place:)
I had to reach complete Spiritual Death, just to kill my stupid head and pride and pray

daily that GOD would brake my heart and rebuild me as I was born.
Out of Obedience to my body and my Spirit, God has seen fit to give me back my state of mind

and allow me to live my life to the full. I walked up the Mountain, and when I reached the

top. I said, GOD IF IT IS MY TIME TO GO I WILL SEE YOU IN A MINUTE MATE. And then I jumped

off, knowing full well that out of blind Faith, GOD would catch me. I pray you all remember

that the Arm of the Lord is LONG. And his LOVE ENDURETH FOREVER. ETERNITY is very hard for

man to grasp in his heart, but logic tells us that ETERNITY is timeless. No Slavery, carries

no chain, no deceit, shall not ensnare.
So where is your blind Faith.
The payer is a simple one.
Serenity. GOD GRANT ME THE SERENITY TO ACCEPT THE THINGS I CANNOT CHANGE, CHANGE THE THINGS

I CAN AND THE WISDOM TO KNOW THE DIFFEENCE!!!
Keep things simple folks. FLUSH IT!!! YOU WON@T DIE EVEN IF YOU THINK YOU REALLY ARE lolol
Thought is a head fuck. lolol
Drink the water, eat the food.
Three little tips for a content and happy life.
Find someone to LOVE (yourself fist) Have and allow someone to LOVE you(GOD) and find

something to do. Earn your money so as you have all that you require. Simple really. It only

took me 23 years to see this, plus 20 years of chaos before lolol

Now for a great and most wondrous KEY.
IF the house be worthy, let your Peace come upon it. Respect your temples.
But if the house be not worthy of respect, let your Peace return to you.
You can only help yourself if you require and do. Obedience to self.

Here is the point of my Anger.

Whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear your words, when you depart out of that house or

City, Shake with vemanance, the dust off your feet.
For you waste your time and effort trying to explain yourself to those that have already

made up there own minds, that you are wrong and have no Valour.
This is real FOOD:)

You are sent forth as Sheep in the midst of Wolves, be ye then wise as Serpents, and as

harmless as Doves.
But beware of Men:) for they will deliver you up to the Councils and they will Scourge you in

there Synagogues. I wonder why lolol. FEAR:) That is why;)
You shall be brought before Governors and Kings, for the sake of your Faith, to give a

Testimony, and prove Witness.
So my fiends. When they deliver you up, take no thought how or what ye shall speak: For it

shall be given you in that same hour what you shall speak.
For it shall not be you that speaks, but the Spirit of your Father that speaks for you.
The brother shall deliver up the brother to death, and the Father the Child; and the

Children shall rise up against there Parents, and cause them to be put to death.
And ye shall be Hated of all Men for the Power of your FAITH; But he that ENDUETH TO THE END

SHALL BE SAVED.
Be thou FAITHFUL unto DEATH, and I shall give you the Crown of Life. The Gift given freely

by GOD, for out of your own Obedience, shall you attain the light of the World, and allow

your Spirit to shine forth without distortion and cunning deceptions.
The Disciple is not above his Master, nor the Servant above his Lord.
I pray most sincerely that, you accept that you are MEN and not GODS. For Pride blinds the

Spirit and makes the Heart cold.
Sharpen your faces as flint unto the Lord and narrow your path so that you only see all the

good of the Kingdom. Praise God every minute of your waking hours, for the most wonderful

gift of life. Before retiring, praise the Lord for keeping you safe this day and supplying

you with all your needs. Be content with what you already have, for out of Obedience, GOD

shall surely Bless you and Yours.
Fear then not therefore: for there is nothing covered, that shall not be revealed; and hid

that shall not be known.
What is told in Darkness, speak ye in light: and what ye hear in the ear, Preach thee upon

the house tops.
Fear not them that kill the body, but are not able to kill the Spirit. But fear the Lord thy

God with trembling, for he is able to destroy the body and the Soul in HELL!!!~’

Sure I am angry. Angry at how stupid and sick I had made myself. I am sorry for being so

blind, but now am most joyful, that I ain’t DEAD yet!lolol!!!
Righteous Anger is not wrong, for it edifies the body, focuses the mind and sets your Spirit

Free.
I pray most eagerly and with prior knowledge that if you are Obedient to the will of GOD. You

shall inherit the earth. All the good fruits of the field and Herb and animal of the earth shall

be yours, for succor and savour.
Br Good people, love each other and feed upon the word for without the light of the Spirit

guiding, you are most definitely lost. God has many Shepherds so do not be disheartened, as

in the dark God can bring you too the light. How about letting go of all the baggage and

getting, letting God do the walking and the talking for you. He is a lot better at it than

either you or I.
Through and onto unto Glory. Step out people and move to and find the Higher Ground, for the

waters rise swiftly and those that do not heed the warnings of the Word shall drown in there

own seas of Hell and rap there heads in there weeds of indecision.
Arise at the Dawn and give thanks for the Lord shall deliver you this day and place you upon

the Beach of life. BORA BORA is a most beautiful paradise lolol.
Have a full and most wonderful day my friends and pray remember, be servants unto your

temples and earn RESPECT, rightfully given.
Blessings and Heart felt Love to one and all.
Bless you Paul;^’
Strength, Power and Honour, shall lead you to respect yourself and others. Do not make

warfare for the sake of Warfare. I pray. Make LOVE!!! EAT the FODD, Drink the water, praise

the Lord for your life, Always Amen’
Yashaweeeeeeee’ IeeaaaaaaaaAAAAAh’ LOCCO” Peace!!!
Shalom^’~ Booshaaaaa’, BE GOOD, CHILDEN OF

THE REVELUTION, MARCH ON UNTO Glory lolol;)~’          POWER:)!!!’
Pray for the Strength to overcome you enemies.
REMBER WE ARE MEN OF THE JUNGLE lolololololololol  ho ho ho ho Ha ha ha!!! Bless lol~’^
Laters, I go to wash, Pray and eat. Drink the Water:) Edify your bodies not your minds:)
Question? When you by a real soft piece of clothing, why does the Manufacture, stick two

coarse, Nylon, tickets inside. One at the back of the neck, one low on the seem on the left,

and a Logo on the front. The tickets scratch like Hell.;(              (‘!’)~~~’    ^
No fear.
Come here headless Chicken, I am Hungry!  😉

Hello my Brothers and Sisters,
Some of you cannot handle the truth, so all I can do this day is give you some words of Wisdom, Recorrded, but not proved, but definitaly a Spiritual Walk.

Little book,eat, digest,move create, whip the winds. lolol

Locca’Rappea’

Provide neither gold, nor silver, nor brass in you purses, Nor scrip(Script lolol Sorcery) for your Journey, neither two coats, neither shoes, nor yet Staves, for the workmen is worthy of his meat.

So I am angry yes? The little passage above puts the whole into perspective.

Why harry so, with the worries of this world, when your Father in Heaven has already got it all sorted for you.

And into whatsoever city ye shall enter, enquire who is worthy; and there abide till ye go thence.
And when ye come into a house, Salute it.

For it is a most beautiful work of the hand of Man and should be respected as you should resect your body. You make attempts each day to tidy and clean your domain. But you forget that the Temple of you Spirit is your body. The saying, Cleanliness is next to Godleness, counts to your body and not your Domain. Wordly Goods , corrupt the mind and blind the Spirit from the truth. You cannot eat your house or your car or your wife, or your kids.
You cannot take them with you when you die, so why try and control, what you have when God gave it to you freely. If you ask for nothing, God shall give you what you require.

My Anger on this list is only justified, by the outlandish stupidity i see befoe me.
Excuses.
Two words that, Junkies and addicts hate!lolol
GIVE UP!!!
Why do you need the crutch, when your legs work perfectly well in the first place:)
I had to reach complete Spiritual Death, just to kill my stupid head and pride and pray daily that GOD would brake my heart and rebuild me as I was born.
Out of Obedience to my body and my Spirit, God has seen fit to give me back my state of mind and allow me to live my life to the full. I walked up the Moutain, and when I reached the top. I said, GOD IF IT IS MY TIME TO GO I WILL SEE YOU IN A MINUTE MATE.And then I jumped off, knowing full well that out of blind Faith, GOD would catch me. I pray you all remembe that the Arm of the Lord is LONG. And his LOVE ENDURETH FOREVER. ETERNITY is very hard for man to grasp in his heart, but logic tells us that ETERNITY is timeless. No Slavery, carries no chain, no deciet, shall not ensnare.
So where is your blind Faith.
The payer is a simple one.
Serenity. GOD GRANT ME THE SERENITY TO ACCEPT THE THINGS I CANNOT CHANGE, CHANGE THE THINGS I CAN AND THE wISDOM TO KNOW THE DIFFEENCE!!!
Keep things simple folks. FLUSH IT!!! YOU WON@T DIE EVEN IF YOU THINK YOU REALLY ARE lolol
Thought is a head fuck. lolol
Drink the water, eat the food.
Three little tips for a content and happy life.
Find someone to LOVE (yourself fist) Have and allow someone to LOVE you(GOD) and find something to do. Earn your money so as you have all that you require. Simple really. It only took me 23 years to see this, plus 20 years of chaos before lolol

Now fo a gea t and most wonderious KEY.
IF the house be worthy, let your Peace come apon it. Respect your temples.
But if the house be not wothy of respect, let your Peace return to you.
You can only help youself if you require and do. Obedience to self.

Here is the point of my Anger.

Whosoever shall not recieve you, nor hear your words, when you depart out of that house or City, Shake with vemance the dust off your feet.
For you waste your time and effort trying to explain yourself to those that have already made up there own minds, that you are wrong and have no Valour.
This is real FOOD:)

You are sent forth as Sheep in the midst of Wolves, be ye then wise as Sepents, and as harmless as Doves.
But beware of Men:) for they will delive you up to the Councils and they will Scorge you in there Synagogues. I wonder why lolol. FEAR:) That is why;)
You shall be brought before Goveners and Kings, for the sake of your Faith, to give a Testomonie, and prove Witness.
So my fiends. When they deliver you up, take no thought how or what ye shall speek: For it shall be given you in that same hour what you shall speak.
For it shall not be you that speaks, but the Spirit of your Father that speaks for you.
The brother shall deliver up the brother to daeth, and the Father the Child; and the Children shall rise up against there Parents, and cause them to be put to death.
And ye shall be Hated of all Men for the Power of your FAITH; But he that ENDUETH TO THE END SHALL BE SAVED.
Be thou FAITHFUL untoo DEATH, and I shall give you the Crown of Life. The Gift given feely by GOD, for out of your own Obedience, shall you attain the light of the World, and allow your Spirit to shine forth without distortion and cunning deceptions.
The Desciple is not above his Master, nor the Servant above his Lord.
I pray most sincerely that, you accept that you are MEN and not GODS. For Pride blinds the Spirit and makes the Heart cold.
Sharpen your faces as flint unto the Lod and narow your path so that you only see all the good of the Kingdom. Praise God every minute of your waking hours, for the most wonderfull gift of life. Before retiring, praise the Lord for keeping you safe this day and supplying you with all your needs. Be content with what you aleady have, fo out of Obedience, GOD shall surely Bless you and Yours.
Fear then not therefore: fo there is nothing covered, that shall not be revealed; and hid that shall not be known.
What is told in Darkness, speek ye in light: and what ye hear in the ear, Preach thee apon the house tops.
Fear not them that kill the body, but are not able to kill the Spirit. But fear the Lord thy God with trembling, for he is able to destroy the body and the Soul in HELL!!!~’

Sure I am angry. Angry at how stupid and sick I had made myself. I am sorry for being so blind, but now am most joyful, that I ain’t DEAD yet!lolol!!!
Rightious Anger is not wrong, for it edifies the body, focuses the mind and sets your Spirit Free.
I pray most eagely and with fo knowledge that if you ae Obedient to the will of GOD. You shall inheit the eath. All the good fruits of the field and heb and animal of the eath shall be yours, for succorr and savour.
Br Good people, love each other and feed apon the wod for without the light of the Spirit guiding, you are most deffinitaly lost. God has many Sheppards so do not be disheartend, as in the dark God can bring you too the light. How about letting go of all the baggage and getting, letting God do the walking and the talking for you. He is a lot better at it than either you or I.
Through and onto unto Glory. Step out people and move to and find the Higher Ground, for the waters rise swiftly and those that do not heed the warnings of the Word shall drown in there own seas of Hell and rap there heads in there weeds of indesision.
Arise at the Dawn and give thanks fo the Lord shall deliver you this day and place you apon the Beach of life. BORA BORA is a most beautiful paradise lolol.
Have a full and most wonderfull day my friends and pray remeber, be servants unto your temples and earn RESPECT, rightfully given.
Blessings and Heart felt Love to one and all.
Bless you Paul;^’
Strenght, Power and Honour, shall lead you to respect youself and others. Do not make warfare for the sake of Warrfare. I pray. Make LOVE!!! EAT the FODD, Drink the water, praise the Lord for your life, Always Amen’
Yashaweeeeeeee’ IeeaaaaaaaaAAAAAh’ LOCCO” Peace!!!
Shalom^’~ Booshaaaaa’, BE GOOD, CHILDEN OF THE REVELUTION, MARCH ON UNTO GLOrY lolol;)~’          POWER:)!!!’
Pray for the Strenght to ovecome you enemies.
REMBER WE ARE MEN OF THE JUNGLE lolololololololol  ho ho ho ho Ha ha ha!!! Bless lol~’^
Laters, I go to wash, Pray and eat. Drink the Water:) Edify your bodies not your minds:)
Question? When you by a real soft piece of clothing, why does the Manufacture, stick two coarse, Nylon, tickets inside. One at the back of the neck, one low on the seem on the left, and a Logo on the front. The tickets scatch like Hell.;(              (‘!’)~~~’    ^
No fear.

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From: “Nick Sandberg” <nick227@tiscali.co.uk>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Kirk!
Date: April 11, 2006 at 4:31:25 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hey Paul,

Yeah, I mean you do seem to like condemning people a bit. That’s how I find
you. And, for sure, it seems a bit stronger if you can bring “God” into it
too. That’s OK. Why not just own that? “Hey I like to do a bit of hellfire
preaching and lay into people. That’s a part of me” I mention this as it can
be a way forward and I see you’re also a very nice guy, which can maybe get
not seen if people think you’re going to go into judgment mode. What do you
think?

Nick

—–Original Message—–
From: Kirk [mailto:captkirk@clear.net.nz]
Sent: 10 April 2006 22:56
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Kirk!

Thinking he who rants loudest and rudest could be the one who has lost the
plot.
Why are you attacking people so rudely on this list for them having an
opinion that differs from yours?
Think you need to question why that is.
Debate is cool, but you’re just being rude and not allowing for any other
opinion bar your own tunnel visioned one.
I hope YOU get to see the full picture one day.
In the meantime, I wish you well.
Kirk

—–Original Message—–
From: Paul Brookshaw [mailto:jiggy9@hotmail.co.uk]
Sent: Tuesday, 11 April 2006 9:23 a.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Kirk!

Hello Kirk,
I think what yoiu just said is crap. Pure egotistical
rubbish.
Methadone lol
Let me tell you where i have just come from. OK
For the last 6 years I had been taking, 80mg of Methadone +, half a gram
of
Scag, 600mg of Dihydracodine. 40mg of Certraline, 150mg of Valium, plus
little tickles in between of Moggys and Tamazapam. A bottle of vodka, plus
4

special brews. 3000mg of Gabapentin, 15 grms of weed, plus tobacco, and
now
i am clean.
What do you mean by Methadone eh?
I took Iboga to stop myself from self anialation. You took it cos you whee
to masculine.
Get a life.
Seriously. You both deserve one another.
You’ve lost the plot completely.
Another one bites the dust. lolol>’~+

Blessings be with you and may you see fully one day. lolol
That is why I seem to moke OK?
Get it sorted.

Bless you Paul:)’

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From: captkirk <captkirk@clear.net.nz>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] NEW DRUG CP(OT!!)
Date: April 10, 2006 at 11:58:45 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

testing

—– Original Message Follows —–
LMAO!!! duh! I am such a dumbass! I see the vaults of meow
now! I am sooooo   embarassed!
lmao!
sorry folks!
Callie

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From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] WOW!!
Date: April 10, 2006 at 9:03:57 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Think I know what ‘getting jiggy with it’ means now! hahahaha!! Jiggy, you being a bit hard on my friends, friend. Chill out a bit. We are all here for different reasons and to call someone you do not know a liar is a bit harsh don’t you think?
Step back and check yourself. Can we all accept each other and get along?
Callie

From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] NEW DRUG CP(OT!!)
Date: April 10, 2006 at 9:05:02 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

LMAO!!! duh! I am such a dumbass! I see the vaults of meow now! I am sooooo embarassed!
lmao!
sorry folks!
Callie

From: Crooked Eye <iboganaut420@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] NEW DRUG CP(OT!!)
Date: April 10, 2006 at 9:00:50 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Callie, that isn’t really on Erowid, that was a spoof site made up for an april fools joke..  erowid, is www.erowid.org not www.thoughtspam.com  😉   Don’t hold erowid accountable, it’s just a silly prank…

CallieMimosa@aol.com wrote:
LMAO! I went back and read the experiences and now I know it is a hoax! Come on people!! Are you that fucking hard up that you would inject cat pee?!! I hope not!
One way I know it is a hoax, reading Boobs Mefeely said they went to pharmacy bought 1ml insulin syringe then emptied contents and then drew up cat pee! Never bought an insulin syringe already loaded with something from pharmacy.
In fact my respect for vaults has substantially lessened due to this shit!
Callie
Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. PC-to-Phone calls for ridiculously low rates.

From: Crooked Eye <iboganaut420@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Quest. to Dana: hermaline- Shah initiation
Date: April 10, 2006 at 8:25:13 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

the vine of the dead/soul for ayahausca is rich in harmala alkaloids, and is known as Banesteriopsis Caapi, but I believe you are speaking of Syrian Rue aka Peganum Harmala seeds, which are very high in harmala alkaloids..  Both provide MAO Inhibition, for aya brews and are said to have benefits by themselves…

pascall roland <pascal-roland@hotmail.com> wrote:
Dear Dana,

if not wrong hermaline can be extracted from a plant known in Persian as
Esfand and til day used here by many people to purify & protect themsleves
and their environment ( Esfand as a dried plant is used as incense ). Every
home keeps some Esfand to perform purification when necessary.

Question: where did you learn that the Persian Shah used hermaline for the
initiation? Which Shah and what kind of initiation?

thks/rgds

  1. Roland

>From: HSLotsof@aol.com
>Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
>To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
>Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Fwd: Gospel of Judas
>Date: Sun, 9 Apr 2006 14:00:31 EDT
>
>Dana,
>
>Just curious as to the language of your attached
>gospel_of_judas_iscariot.pdf
>as it breaks down the narrative into “scenes.” Is that language customary?
>
>Howard
>
>In a message dated 4/8/06 4:24:39 PM, dana@phantom.com writes:
>
> >
> > New gnostic gospel supports passover plot account, thereby buttressing
>the
> > role of Grail contents with neuro-protective properties as a forensic
> > explanation of what happened in the crucifixion and resurrection.
> >
> > I now believe that ibogaine may actually have been one of the
>ingredients in
> > the Grail mixture– because it makes the body  totally numb and able to
>take
> > being pierced without pain or flinching, and because it’s been patented
>for
> > ischemia, which is a kind of global stroke effect brought on during
> > Crucifixion by gradual suffocation caused by the windpipe being cut off
>when the
> > crucified would lean forward trying to rest. Other ingredients would
>have been
> > some harmaline and possibly cannabis, but not ephedra, which would be
> > unnecessary with the iboga.
> >
> > If Egyptian mummies have been found with traces of cocaine and nicotine
> > (from the Americas), they couldn’t have had that much trouble getting a
>bit of
> > root-bark from the sub-Sahara. Iboga originates with the Pygmy, who
>supposedly
> > had it before anyone else. Somewhere I heard or read (and maybe some
>one on
> > the list can provide the citation.) that the Pygmy first had it in the
>Rift
> > Valley, 20,000 years ago.
> >
> > So the theory is that harmaline was involved in the initiation of the
> > Persian Shah, iboga in the ordination of the Pharaoh. Christ claimed the
>mantel of
> > both, of course.
> >
> > Dana/cnw
> >
> >
> > Begin forwarded message:
> >
> >
> > From: “William T. Brennan”
> > Date: April 6, 2006 10:40:49 PM EDT
> > To: dana@phantom.com
> > Subject: Gospel of Judas
> >
> > Hi Dana,
> >
> > I hope all’s been well this week.
> >
> > You may have heard by now, but the Gospel of Judas has recently
>surfaced.
> > I’ve copied the NYT story below and have attached a translation of the
> > gospel.  The unquestionably gnostic thread running through it seems
>like it’s right
> > up your alley.
> >
> > Predictably, I’ve combed through it looking for potential mushroom
> > references that line up with other more obvious gnostic mushroom
>references (Heinrich,
> > 2002) and feel like I’ve found a few.  Here they are with some notes:
> >
> >
> >
> > “Often he did not appear to his disciples as himself, but he was found
>among
> > them as a child.”
> >
> >
> >
> > I would love to find out what Greek term was used for “child,” and
>to get
> > into its etymology.  I’m pretty sure that it’s in Greek mythology
>(note that
> > this gospel was originally written in Greek) that mushrooms are often
> > referred to in childish terms (e.g., the “little ones”).  This line
>is especially
> > suspect since the rest of the passage makes no reference to Jesus as a
>child.
> >
> >
> >
> > One day he was with his disciples in Judea, and he found them gathered
> > together and seated in pious observance. When he [approached] his
>disciples, [34]
> > gathered >>together and seated and offering a prayer of thanksgiving
>over the
> > bread, [he] laughed.
> > The disciples said to [him], “Master, why are you laughing at [our]
>prayer
> > of
> > thanksgiving? We have done what is right.”
> > He answered and said to them, “I am not laughing at you. are not
>doing
> > this because of your own will but because it is through this that your
>god
> > [will be] praised.”
> > They said, “Master, you are […] the son of our god.”
> > Jesus said to them, “How do you know me? Truly [I] say to you, no
>generation
> > of the people that are among you will know me.”
> > …
> > “When Jesus observed their lack of [understanding, he said] to them,
>“Why
> > has this agitation led you to anger? Your god who is within you and
>[…]”
> > …
> > “Knowing that Judas was reflecting upon something that was exalted,
>Jesus
> > said to him,
> > “Step away from the others and I shall tell you the mysteries of the
>kingdom.
> > ”
> >
> >
> >
> > Jesus seems to be mocking their “bread eating” ritual by noting that
>it’s
> > putting them in touch with a different god.  Judas, on the other hand,
>gets
> > favored and enters into “conversation” with Jesus because only he
>rightfully
> > identifies him.  As you know, different species of Amanitas look pretty
> > similar, and even when you find the right (psychoactive) one, they’re
>notoriously
> > hard to get a psychedelic trip out of.  Maybe this difficulty is
>what’s
> > contributing to their “praising of another god.”
> >
> >
> >
> > “A great angel, the enlightened divine Self-Generated, emerged from
>the
> > cloud.”
> >
> >
> >
> > Self-generated?  From the cloud?  Self-generation is unavoidable for a
> > Creator god, but this “great angel” was brought into being by a
>greater power.
> > Why would the text run the risk of coming across as self-contradictory
>by
> > dubbing him/her/it “self-created?”  This odd, quasi-incorrect
>description of the
> > angel sounds like a traditional mythic mushroom reference to me (i.e.,
>no
> > visible seed, springing up in the wake of clouds).
> >
> >
> >
> > I’m skeptical myself, but it’s worth thinking about.  In other news,
>the
> > postering is going really well on Long Island, and I’ll be getting
>started on
> > the NYU campus area soon as well (assuming no one else has hit it
>yet).  I’ve
> > got some more things to talk about, both related to the march and the
>Ibogaine
> > book, so I’ll talk to you soon.
> >
> > -Bill
> >
> > Here’s the NYT story:
> >
> > April 6, 2006
> > ‘Gospel of Judas’ Surfaces After 1,700 Years
> > By JOHN NOBLE WILFORD and LAURIE GOODSTEIN
> >
> > An early Christian manuscript, including the only known text of what
> > is known as the Gospel of Judas, has surfaced after 1,700 years. The
> > text gives new insights into the relationship of Jesus and the
> > disciple who betrayed him, scholars reported today. In this version,
> > Jesus asked Judas, as a close friend, to sell him out to the
> > authorities, telling Judas he will “exceed” the other disciples by
> > doing so.
> >
> > Though some theologians have hypothesized this, scholars who have
> > studied the new-found text said, this is the first time an ancient
> > document defends the idea.
> >
> > The discovery in the desert of Egypt of the leather-bound papyrus
> > manuscript, and now its translation, was announced by the National
> > Geographic Society at a news conference in Washington. The 26-page
> > Judas text is said to be a copy in Coptic, made around A. D. 300, of
> > the original Gospel of Judas, written in Greek the century before.
> >
> > Terry Garcia, an executive vice president of the geographic society,
> > said the manuscript, or codex, is considered by scholars and
> > scientists to be the most significant ancient, nonbiblical text to be
> > found in the past 60 years.
> >
> > “The codex has been authenticated as a genuine work of ancient
> > Christian apocryphal literature,” Mr. Garcia said, citing extensive
> > tests of radiocarbon dating, ink analysis and multispectral imaging
> > and studies of the script and linguistic style. The ink, for example,
> > was consistent with ink of that era, and there was no evidence of
> > multiple rewriting.
> >
> > “This is absolutely typical of ancient Coptic manuscripts,” said
> > Stephen Emmel, professor of Coptic studies at the University of
> > Munster in Germany. “I am completely convinced.”
> >
> > The most revealing passages in the Judas manuscript begins, “The
> > secret account of the revelation that Jesus spoke in conversation
> > with Judas Iscariot during a week, three days before he celebrated
> > Passover.”
> >
> > The account goes on to relate that Jesus refers to the other
> > disciples, telling Judas “you will exceed all of them. For you will
> > sacrifice the man that clothes me.” By that, scholars familiar with
> > Gnostic thinking said, Jesus meant that by helping him get rid of his
> > physical flesh, Judas will act to liberate the true spiritual self or
> > divine being within Jesus.
> >
> > Unlike the accounts in the New Testament Gospels of Matthew, Mark,
> > Luke and John, the anonymous author of the Gospel of Judas believed
> > that Judas Iscariot alone among the 12 disciples understood the
> > meaning of Jesus’ teachings and acceded to his will. In the diversity
> > of early Christian thought, a group known as Gnostics believed in a
> > secret knowledge of how people could escape the prisons of their
> > material bodies and return to the spiritual realm from which they came.
> >
> > Elaine Pagels, a professor of religion at Princeton who specializes
> > in studies of the Gnostics, said in a statement, “These discoveries
> > are exploding the myth of a monolithic religion, and demonstrating
> > how diverse — and fascinating — the early Christian movement
>really
> > was.”
> >
> > The Gospel of Judas is only one of many texts discovered in the last
> > 65 years, including the gospels of Thomas, Mary Magdalene and Philip,
> > believed to be written by Gnostics.
> >
> > The Gnostics’ beliefs were often viewed by bishops and early church
> > leaders as unorthodox, and they were frequently denounced as
> > heretics. The discoveries of Gnostic texts have shaken up Biblical
> > scholarship by revealing the diversity of beliefs and practices among
> > early followers of Jesus.
> >
> > As the findings have trickled down to churches and universities, they
> > have produced a new generation of Christians who now regard the Bible
> > not as the literal word of God, but as a product of historical and
> > political forces that determined which texts should be included in
> > the canon, and which edited out.
> >
> > For that reason, the discoveries have proved deeply troubling for
> > many believers. The Gospel of Judas portrays Judas Iscariot not as a
> > betrayer of Jesus, but as his most favored disciple and willing
> > collaborator.
> >
> > Scholars say that they have long been on the lookout for the Gospel
> > of Judas because of a reference to what was probably an early version
> > of it in a text called Against Heresies, written by Irenaeus, the
> > bishop of Lyons, about the year 180.
> >
> > Irenaeus was a hunter of heretics, and no friend of the Gnostics. He
> > wrote, “They produce a fictitious history of this kind, which they
> > style the Gospel of Judas.”
> >
> > Karen L. King, a professor of the history of early Christianity at
> > Harvard Divinity School, and an expert in Gnosticism who has not yet
> > read the manuscript released today, said that the Gospel of Judas may
> > well reflect the kinds of debates that arose in the second and third
> > century among Christians.
> >
> > “You can see how early Christians could say, if Jesus’s death was all
> > part of God’s plan, then Judas’s betrayal was part of God’s plan,”
> > said Ms. King, the author of several books on the Gospel of Mary. “So
> > what does that make Judas? Is he the betrayer, or the facilitator of
> > salvation, the guy who makes the crucifixion possible?”
> >
> > At least one scholar said the new manuscript does not contain
> > anything dramatic that would change or undermine traditional
> > understanding of the Bible. James M. Robinson, a retired professor of
> > Coptic studies at Claremont Graduate University, was the general
> > editor of the English edition of the Nag Hammadi library, a
> > collection of Gnostic documents discovered in Egypt in 1945.
> >
> > “Correctly understood, there’s nothing undermining about the Gospel
> > of Judas,” Mr. Robinson said in a telephone interview. He said that
> > the New Testament gospels of John and Mark both contain passages that
> > suggest that Jesus not only picked Judas to betray him, but actually
> > encouraged Judas to hand him over to those he knew would crucify him.
> >
> > Mr. Robinson’s book, “The Secrets of Judas: The Story of the
> > Misunderstood Disciple and his Lost Gospel” (Harper San Francisco,
> > April 2006), predicts the contents of the Gospel of Judas based on
> > his knowledge of Gnostic and Coptic texts, even though he was not
> > part of the team of researchers working on the document.
> >
> > The Egyptian copy of the gospel was written on 13 sheets of papyrus,
> > both front and back, and found in a multitude of brittle fragments.
> >
> > Rudolphe Kasser, a Swiss scholar of Coptic studies, directed the team
> > that reconstructed and translated the script. The effort, organized
> > by the National Geographic, was supported by Maecenas Foundation for
> > Ancient Art, in Basel, Switzerland, and the Waitt Institute for
> > Historical Discovery, an American nonprofit organization for the
> > application of technology in historical and scientific projects.
> >
> > The entire 66-page codex also contains a text titled James (also
> > known as First Apocalypse of James), a letter by Peter and a text of
> > what scholars are provisionally calling Book of Allogenes.
> >
> > Discovered in the 1970’s in a cavern near El Minya, Egypt, the
> > document circulated for years among antiquities dealers in Egypt,
> > then Europe and finally in the United States. It moldered in a safe-
> > deposit box at a bank in Hicksville, N. Y., for 16 years before being
> > bought in 2000 by a Zurich dealer, Frieda Nussberger-Tchacos. The
> > manuscript was given the name Codex Tchacos.
> >
> > When attempts to resell the codex failed, Ms. Nussberger-Tchacos
> > turned it over to the Maecenas Foundation for conservation and
> > translation.
> >
> > Mr. Robinson said that an Egyptian antiquities dealer offered to sell
> > him the document in 1983 for $3 million, but that he could not raise
> > the money. He criticized the scholars now associated with the
> > project, some of whom are his former students, because he said they
> > violated an agreement made years ago by Coptic scholars that new
> > discoveries should be made accessible to all qualified scholars.
> >
> > The manuscript will ultimately be returned to Egypt, where it was
> > discovered, and housed in the Coptic Museum in Cairo.
> >
> > Ted Waitt, the founder and former chief executive of Gateway, said
> > that his foundation, the Waitt Institute for Historical Discovery,
> > gave the National Geographic Society a grant of more than $1 million
> > to restore and preserve the manuscript and make it available to the
> > public.
> >
> > ” I didn’t know a whole lot until I got into this about the early
> > days of Christianity. It was just extremely fascinating to me,” Mr.
> > Waitt said in a telephone interview. He said he had no motivation
> > other than being fascinated by the finding. He said that after the
> > document was carbon dated and the ink tested, procedures his
> > foundation paid for, he had no question about its authenticity. “You
> > can potentially question the translation and the interpretation, he
> > said, but you can’t fake something like this. It would be impossible.”
> >
> >
> >
> >
>

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From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] NEW DRUG CP(OT!!)
Date: April 10, 2006 at 8:52:25 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

LMAO! I went back and read the experiences and now I know it is a hoax! Come on people!! Are you that fucking hard up that you would inject cat pee?!! I hope not!
One way I know it is a hoax, reading Boobs Mefeely said they went to pharmacy bought 1ml insulin syringe then emptied contents and then drew up cat pee! Never bought an insulin syringe already loaded with something from pharmacy.
In fact my respect for vaults has substantially lessened due to this shit!
Callie
From: “pascall roland” <pascal-roland@hotmail.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] Quest. to Dana: hermaline- Shah initiation
Date: April 10, 2006 at 3:03:32 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Dear Dana,

if not wrong hermaline can be extracted from a plant known in Persian as Esfand and til day used here by many people to purify & protect themsleves and their environment ( Esfand as a dried plant is used as incense ). Every home keeps some Esfand to perform purification when necessary.

Question: where did you learn that the Persian Shah used hermaline for the initiation? Which Shah and what kind of initiation?

thks/rgds

  1. Roland

From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Fwd: Gospel of Judas
Date: Sun, 9 Apr 2006 14:00:31 EDT

Dana,

Just curious as to the language of your attached gospel_of_judas_iscariot.pdf
as it breaks down the narrative into “scenes.” Is that language customary?

Howard

In a message dated 4/8/06 4:24:39 PM, dana@phantom.com writes:

>
> New gnostic gospel supports passover plot account, thereby buttressing the
> role of Grail contents with neuro-protective properties as a forensic
> explanation of what happened in the crucifixion and resurrection.
>
> I now believe that ibogaine may actually have been one of the ingredients in
> the Grail mixture– because it makes the body  totally numb and able to take
> being pierced without pain or flinching, and because it’s been patented for
> ischemia, which is a kind of global stroke effect brought on during
> Crucifixion by gradual suffocation caused by the windpipe being cut off when the
> crucified would lean forward trying to rest. Other ingredients would have been
> some harmaline and possibly cannabis, but not ephedra, which would be
> unnecessary with the iboga.
>
> If Egyptian mummies have been found with traces of cocaine and nicotine
> (from the Americas), they couldn’t have had that much trouble getting a bit of
> root-bark from the sub-Sahara. Iboga originates with the Pygmy, who supposedly
> had it before anyone else. Somewhere I heard or read (and maybe some one on
> the list can provide the citation.) that the Pygmy first had it in the Rift
> Valley, 20,000 years ago.
>
> So the theory is that harmaline was involved in the initiation of the
> Persian Shah, iboga in the ordination of the Pharaoh. Christ claimed the mantel of
> both, of course.
>
> Dana/cnw
>
>
> Begin forwarded message:
>
>
> From: “William T. Brennan” <wtb208@stern.nyu.edu>
> Date: April 6, 2006 10:40:49 PM EDT
> To: dana@phantom.com
> Subject: Gospel of Judas
>
> Hi Dana,
>
> I hope all’s been well this week.
>
> You may have heard by now, but the Gospel of Judas has recently surfaced.
> I’ve copied the NYT story below and have attached a translation of the
> gospel.  The unquestionably gnostic thread running through it seems like it’s right
> up your alley.
>
> Predictably, I’ve combed through it looking for potential mushroom
> references that line up with other more obvious gnostic mushroom references (Heinrich,
> 2002) and feel like I’ve found a few.  Here they are with some notes:
>
>
>
> “Often he did not appear to his disciples as himself, but he was found among
> them as a child.”
>
>
>
> I would love to find out what Greek term was used for “child,” and to get
> into its etymology.  I’m pretty sure that it’s in Greek mythology (note that
> this gospel was originally written in Greek) that mushrooms are often
> referred to in childish terms (e.g., the “little ones”).  This line is especially
> suspect since the rest of the passage makes no reference to Jesus as a child.
>
>
>
> One day he was with his disciples in Judea, and he found them gathered
> together and seated in pious observance. When he [approached] his disciples, [34]
> gathered >>together and seated and offering a prayer of thanksgiving over the
> bread, [he] laughed.
> The disciples said to [him], “Master, why are you laughing at [our] prayer
> of
> thanksgiving? We have done what is right.”
> He answered and said to them, “I am not laughing at you. <You> are not doing
> this because of your own will but because it is through this that your god
> [will be] praised.”
> They said, “Master, you are […] the son of our god.”
> Jesus said to them, “How do you know me? Truly [I] say to you, no generation
> of the people that are among you will know me.”
> …
> “When Jesus observed their lack of [understanding, he said] to them, “Why
> has this agitation led you to anger? Your god who is within you and […]”
> …
> “Knowing that Judas was reflecting upon something that was exalted, Jesus
> said to him,
> “Step away from the others and I shall tell you the mysteries of the kingdom.
> ”
>
>
>
> Jesus seems to be mocking their “bread eating” ritual by noting that it’s
> putting them in touch with a different god.  Judas, on the other hand, gets
> favored and enters into “conversation” with Jesus because only he rightfully
> identifies him.  As you know, different species of Amanitas look pretty
> similar, and even when you find the right (psychoactive) one, they’re notoriously
> hard to get a psychedelic trip out of.  Maybe this difficulty is what’s
> contributing to their “praising of another god.”
>
>
>
> “A great angel, the enlightened divine Self-Generated, emerged from the
> cloud.”
>
>
>
> Self-generated?  From the cloud?  Self-generation is unavoidable for a
> Creator god, but this “great angel” was brought into being by a greater power.
> Why would the text run the risk of coming across as self-contradictory by
> dubbing him/her/it “self-created?”  This odd, quasi-incorrect description of the
> angel sounds like a traditional mythic mushroom reference to me (i.e., no
> visible seed, springing up in the wake of clouds).
>
>
>
> I’m skeptical myself, but it’s worth thinking about.  In other news, the
> postering is going really well on Long Island, and I’ll be getting started on
> the NYU campus area soon as well (assuming no one else has hit it yet).  I’ve
> got some more things to talk about, both related to the march and the Ibogaine
> book, so I’ll talk to you soon.
>
> -Bill
>
> Here’s the NYT story:
>
> April 6, 2006
> ‘Gospel of Judas’ Surfaces After 1,700 Years
> By JOHN NOBLE WILFORD and LAURIE GOODSTEIN
>
> An early Christian manuscript, including the only known text of what
> is known as the Gospel of Judas, has surfaced after 1,700 years. The
> text gives new insights into the relationship of Jesus and the
> disciple who betrayed him, scholars reported today. In this version,
> Jesus asked Judas, as a close friend, to sell him out to the
> authorities, telling Judas he will “exceed” the other disciples by
> doing so.
>
> Though some theologians have hypothesized this, scholars who have
> studied the new-found text said, this is the first time an ancient
> document defends the idea.
>
> The discovery in the desert of Egypt of the leather-bound papyrus
> manuscript, and now its translation, was announced by the National
> Geographic Society at a news conference in Washington. The 26-page
> Judas text is said to be a copy in Coptic, made around A. D. 300, of
> the original Gospel of Judas, written in Greek the century before.
>
> Terry Garcia, an executive vice president of the geographic society,
> said the manuscript, or codex, is considered by scholars and
> scientists to be the most significant ancient, nonbiblical text to be
> found in the past 60 years.
>
> “The codex has been authenticated as a genuine work of ancient
> Christian apocryphal literature,” Mr. Garcia said, citing extensive
> tests of radiocarbon dating, ink analysis and multispectral imaging
> and studies of the script and linguistic style. The ink, for example,
> was consistent with ink of that era, and there was no evidence of
> multiple rewriting.
>
> “This is absolutely typical of ancient Coptic manuscripts,” said
> Stephen Emmel, professor of Coptic studies at the University of
> Munster in Germany. “I am completely convinced.”
>
> The most revealing passages in the Judas manuscript begins, “The
> secret account of the revelation that Jesus spoke in conversation
> with Judas Iscariot during a week, three days before he celebrated
> Passover.”
>
> The account goes on to relate that Jesus refers to the other
> disciples, telling Judas “you will exceed all of them. For you will
> sacrifice the man that clothes me.” By that, scholars familiar with
> Gnostic thinking said, Jesus meant that by helping him get rid of his
> physical flesh, Judas will act to liberate the true spiritual self or
> divine being within Jesus.
>
> Unlike the accounts in the New Testament Gospels of Matthew, Mark,
> Luke and John, the anonymous author of the Gospel of Judas believed
> that Judas Iscariot alone among the 12 disciples understood the
> meaning of Jesus’ teachings and acceded to his will. In the diversity
> of early Christian thought, a group known as Gnostics believed in a
> secret knowledge of how people could escape the prisons of their
> material bodies and return to the spiritual realm from which they came.
>
> Elaine Pagels, a professor of religion at Princeton who specializes
> in studies of the Gnostics, said in a statement, “These discoveries
> are exploding the myth of a monolithic religion, and demonstrating
> how diverse — and fascinating — the early Christian movement really
> was.”
>
> The Gospel of Judas is only one of many texts discovered in the last
> 65 years, including the gospels of Thomas, Mary Magdalene and Philip,
> believed to be written by Gnostics.
>
> The Gnostics’ beliefs were often viewed by bishops and early church
> leaders as unorthodox, and they were frequently denounced as
> heretics. The discoveries of Gnostic texts have shaken up Biblical
> scholarship by revealing the diversity of beliefs and practices among
> early followers of Jesus.
>
> As the findings have trickled down to churches and universities, they
> have produced a new generation of Christians who now regard the Bible
> not as the literal word of God, but as a product of historical and
> political forces that determined which texts should be included in
> the canon, and which edited out.
>
> For that reason, the discoveries have proved deeply troubling for
> many believers. The Gospel of Judas portrays Judas Iscariot not as a
> betrayer of Jesus, but as his most favored disciple and willing
> collaborator.
>
> Scholars say that they have long been on the lookout for the Gospel
> of Judas because of a reference to what was probably an early version
> of it in a text called Against Heresies, written by Irenaeus, the
> bishop of Lyons, about the year 180.
>
> Irenaeus was a hunter of heretics, and no friend of the Gnostics. He
> wrote, “They produce a fictitious history of this kind, which they
> style the Gospel of Judas.”
>
> Karen L. King, a professor of the history of early Christianity at
> Harvard Divinity School, and an expert in Gnosticism who has not yet
> read the manuscript released today, said that the Gospel of Judas may
> well reflect the kinds of debates that arose in the second and third
> century among Christians.
>
> “You can see how early Christians could say, if Jesus’s death was all
> part of God’s plan, then Judas’s betrayal was part of God’s plan,”
> said Ms. King, the author of several books on the Gospel of Mary. “So
> what does that make Judas? Is he the betrayer, or the facilitator of
> salvation, the guy who makes the crucifixion possible?”
>
> At least one scholar said the new manuscript does not contain
> anything dramatic that would change or undermine traditional
> understanding of the Bible. James M. Robinson, a retired professor of
> Coptic studies at Claremont Graduate University, was the general
> editor of the English edition of the Nag Hammadi library, a
> collection of Gnostic documents discovered in Egypt in 1945.
>
> “Correctly understood, there’s nothing undermining about the Gospel
> of Judas,” Mr. Robinson said in a telephone interview. He said that
> the New Testament gospels of John and Mark both contain passages that
> suggest that Jesus not only picked Judas to betray him, but actually
> encouraged Judas to hand him over to those he knew would crucify him.
>
> Mr. Robinson’s book, “The Secrets of Judas: The Story of the
> Misunderstood Disciple and his Lost Gospel” (Harper San Francisco,
> April 2006), predicts the contents of the Gospel of Judas based on
> his knowledge of Gnostic and Coptic texts, even though he was not
> part of the team of researchers working on the document.
>
> The Egyptian copy of the gospel was written on 13 sheets of papyrus,
> both front and back, and found in a multitude of brittle fragments.
>
> Rudolphe Kasser, a Swiss scholar of Coptic studies, directed the team
> that reconstructed and translated the script. The effort, organized
> by the National Geographic, was supported by Maecenas Foundation for
> Ancient Art, in Basel, Switzerland, and the Waitt Institute for
> Historical Discovery, an American nonprofit organization for the
> application of technology in historical and scientific projects.
>
> The entire 66-page codex also contains a text titled James (also
> known as First Apocalypse of James), a letter by Peter and a text of
> what scholars are provisionally calling Book of Allogenes.
>
> Discovered in the 1970’s in a cavern near El Minya, Egypt, the
> document circulated for years among antiquities dealers in Egypt,
> then Europe and finally in the United States. It moldered in a safe-
> deposit box at a bank in Hicksville, N. Y., for 16 years before being
> bought in 2000 by a Zurich dealer, Frieda Nussberger-Tchacos. The
> manuscript was given the name Codex Tchacos.
>
> When attempts to resell the codex failed, Ms. Nussberger-Tchacos
> turned it over to the Maecenas Foundation for conservation and
> translation.
>
> Mr. Robinson said that an Egyptian antiquities dealer offered to sell
> him the document in 1983 for $3 million, but that he could not raise
> the money. He criticized the scholars now associated with the
> project, some of whom are his former students, because he said they
> violated an agreement made years ago by Coptic scholars that new
> discoveries should be made accessible to all qualified scholars.
>
> The manuscript will ultimately be returned to Egypt, where it was
> discovered, and housed in the Coptic Museum in Cairo.
>
> Ted Waitt, the founder and former chief executive of Gateway, said
> that his foundation, the Waitt Institute for Historical Discovery,
> gave the National Geographic Society a grant of more than $1 million
> to restore and preserve the manuscript and make it available to the
> public.
>
> ” I didn’t know a whole lot until I got into this about the early
> days of Christianity. It was just extremely fascinating to me,” Mr.
> Waitt said in a telephone interview. He said he had no motivation
> other than being fascinated by the finding. He said that after the
> document was carbon dated and the ink tested, procedures his
> foundation paid for, he had no question about its authenticity. “You
> can potentially question the translation and the interpretation, he
> said, but you can’t fake something like this. It would be impossible.”
>
>
>
>

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From: “Paul Brookshaw” <jiggy9@hotmail.co.uk>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Fwd: Back to Preston
Date: April 10, 2006 at 4:59:10 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Wow Preston and I thought you might of had some savy. Photos on your web site.
You shouldn’t of done it. OK The people were only trying to help you. That is what I meant OK!!!
Better than a Lie cos it was the truth, but you shouldn’t of put it on the Web, in Photos. That is what I ment by you couldn’t have it for yourself, so you ripped it down.
OK?
You made me angry and also others that tryed to help you.
You should of thought twice mate, cos I doubt if you will be welcome for quite a while.
As Sara’ said, it is like inviting the wrong people to your house. How would you like me to say, publish something of you that was personnal like. It would hurt, wouldn’t it.
Don saw what you did, when he said with suprise. Der, nice one Preston.
Now you see, now you understand.
You should of asked, at least.
Sara’ was only trying to help you and you chucked it in her face.
Not nice or clever, was it.
Didn’t have much love or compassion, and deffinitaly no Grace.
How often do you eat Sunday dinner without Gravy? Eh!!!
You should make amends mate, or is it just a carear thing with you.
Gready?
Bless you bro and I pray you see now. Once bitten twice shy. Twice bitten, Foolish?
I suppose I can leave you now to sort things yourself.
Understood you can’t roll back the clock and change what you did, but you could be sincere for once in your life. Surley, Just once. Be a Gentleman.

Bless you Preston Peet and I pray you get it sorted:)

Paul;)’

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From: Kirk <captkirk@clear.net.nz>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Kirk!
Date: April 10, 2006 at 5:56:06 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Thinking he who rants loudest and rudest could be the one who has lost the
plot.
Why are you attacking people so rudely on this list for them having an
opinion that differs from yours?
Think you need to question why that is.
Debate is cool, but you’re just being rude and not allowing for any other
opinion bar your own tunnel visioned one.
I hope YOU get to see the full picture one day.
In the meantime, I wish you well.
Kirk

—–Original Message—–
From: Paul Brookshaw [mailto:jiggy9@hotmail.co.uk]
Sent: Tuesday, 11 April 2006 9:23 a.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Kirk!

Hello Kirk,
I think what yoiu just said is crap. Pure egotistical rubbish.
Methadone lol
Let me tell you where i have just come from. OK
For the last 6 years I had been taking, 80mg of Methadone +, half a gram of
Scag, 600mg of Dihydracodine. 40mg of Certraline, 150mg of Valium, plus
little tickles in between of Moggys and Tamazapam. A bottle of vodka, plus 4

special brews. 3000mg of Gabapentin, 15 grms of weed, plus tobacco, and now
i am clean.
What do you mean by Methadone eh?
I took Iboga to stop myself from self anialation. You took it cos you whee
to masculine.
Get a life.
Seriously. You both deserve one another.
You’ve lost the plot completely.
Another one bites the dust. lolol>’~+

Blessings be with you and may you see fully one day. lolol
That is why I seem to moke OK?
Get it sorted.

Bless you Paul:)’

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From: “Paul Brookshaw” <jiggy9@hotmail.co.uk>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Kirk!
Date: April 10, 2006 at 5:22:45 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hello Kirk,
I think what yoiu just said is crap. Pure egotistical rubbish.
Methadone lol
Let me tell you where i have just come from. OK
For the last 6 years I had been taking, 80mg of Methadone +, half a gram of Scag, 600mg of Dihydracodine. 40mg of Certraline, 150mg of Valium, plus little tickles in between of Moggys and Tamazapam. A bottle of vodka, plus 4 special brews. 3000mg of Gabapentin, 15 grms of weed, plus tobacco, and now i am clean.
What do you mean by Methadone eh?
I took Iboga to stop myself from self anialation. You took it cos you whee to masculine.
Get a life.
Seriously. You both deserve one another.
You’ve lost the plot completely.
Another one bites the dust. lolol>’~+

Blessings be with you and may you see fully one day. lolol
That is why I seem to moke OK?
Get it sorted.

Bless you Paul:)’

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From: “Paul Brookshaw” <jiggy9@hotmail.co.uk>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Kirk.
Date: April 10, 2006 at 5:08:15 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hello Kirk,
I think what you just said is rubbish.
I have just give up in the last four months, 80mg of Meth adone, Half a grm of Scag. 600mg of Dihydracodine, 150mg of Valium, plus 40mg of Certraline and 3000mg of Gabapentin.
Now where I am at is no doubt natural, cos I feel great and very alive. You got it all wrong with me Darling OK?
I don’t like games for the sake of them.
Bless you Paul;)x

From: Kirk <captkirk@clear.net.nz>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] For Preston:’~///Pray Read mate!!!
Date: Sat, 08 Apr 2006 07:25:33 +1200

The point of Iboga is so that a Man may experience his Feminine senses and
the Lady the Masculine senses. At the end of the day we are all individuals.
To not tell people the truth or expose them in public is sinful. You should
know from your previous experience, that most of the crap of giving up
METHADONE AND SCAG AND MORPHINE, is FEAR.!!!

Hi Paul
I have to disagree with your theory of man/fem woman/masculine that’s just
far too black and white my masculine side is way out of balance I needed to
experience my feminine side more….. thus apparently, according to some why
I have all this stuff manifesting on the right hand side.
As for giving up something that CAN have a stabilising effect for an
individual when they are not ready can be more harmful and set someone
back….I’m referring to methadone here…but then again it’s a different
scene here I had a good experience this time round on it.

I don’t have it all sussed, and I know you don’t either.  You feel a little
tunnel visioned……

OH well, Onward Thru the Fog!!!!!

With love n respect to all
Cappen koiky xxx


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From: Crooked Eye <iboganaut420@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] NEW DRUG CP(OT!!)
Date: April 10, 2006 at 3:24:21 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

You should read the experiences, they have the extraction method and everything..  The trip reports are classic!!

CallieMimosa@aol.com wrote:
In a message dated 4/10/2006 9:20:10 A.M. Central Standard Time, iboganaut420@yahoo.com writes:
http://www.thoughtspam.com/cloudy/

Check it out!!  CP or 5-MeO-W!!

CE

This is a joke, right?
If it is not a joke and is really cat urine, how in heavens name do you collect the pee pee? LMAO at the visuals!!
Callie

Talk is cheap. Use Yahoo! Messenger to make PC-to-Phone calls. Great rates starting at 1¢/min.

From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] NEW DRUG CP(OT!!)
Date: April 10, 2006 at 10:49:56 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 4/10/2006 9:20:10 A.M. Central Standard Time, iboganaut420@yahoo.com writes:
http://www.thoughtspam.com/cloudy/

Check it out!!  CP or 5-MeO-W!!

CE

This is a joke, right?
If it is not a joke and is really cat urine, how in heavens name do you collect the pee pee? LMAO at the visuals!!
Callie

From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] The list.Preston, all. My Prayers for you.
Date: April 10, 2006 at 10:23:32 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I tell you this you
really don’t want to take Iboga in the winter, lolol better off in Bora Bora<

See Paul, I get nervous when people make such statements as the one I’ve cut and pasted by you here, as though they are established fact for everyone under the sun, because I know from personal experience of at least one exception to at least the above generalized statement, culled from within your facinating rant (I too have been reminded of those fundamentalist religious tracts while reading your recent posts Paul- and I avidly collect those religious tract things, having a number of grocery bags full of them due to fundamentalist types constantly feeling they have to help me save my soul).
I not only took my ibogaine during the Winter (more than once too, but I’m thinking specifically of the last time, at Sara’s) but I was very much looking forward to taking it during the Winter, and felt it was a much better idea than waiting for warming weather or going to Mexico (or Bora Bora) to take it. Can’t really explain why, but I felt it right to take it in the coldest, most blustery months of Winter there are, and still feel it was a great idea to do so.

Drop the Drugs now<…

“into a small envelope (or a large one as the need may be) and mail them to me, and I promise I will definitely, for sure, dispose of them in a sanitary and permenant fashion.”

—–
“If God dropped acid, would he see people?”  ~Steven Wright

Peace, love and lotsof respect.
Preston Peet
ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor Underground- the Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations, Astonishing Archaeology and Hidden History
Editor Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Columnist HighTimes mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —– From: “Paul Brookshaw” <jiggy9@hotmail.co.uk>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Monday, April 10, 2006 4:24 AM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] The list.Preston, all. My Prayers for you.

Ok little Preston,
You got me cracked up mate and rolling on the floor lolol
I only call you small as a term of endearment though my friend lol
You make me cry also bro cos, just you know. lolol
Unsane or insane. Your question bro.
Get up in the morning, put on your favorite disguise.
Make sure you where your Sunglasses, so no one sees your eyes.
Eat well sleep well, have fun. I forgive you. That’s what matters. I only pray others can. 🙂
They will. Time is a good healer.
How is the Guitar playing coming along then. I tried to learn that damn thing for nearly six years only got cramp and sore fingers. oh plus blisters.
Used to play the Trumpet and Cornet before my habit stole all my teeth lolol
I just read your reply to my mail and, bless you bro you grounded me. lolol
Welcome home to the King and Queen. Myself and my wife have been staying a long weekend in the local Country Club.
You got the idea mate. Sauna Jacuzzi, pool, sunbeds. I tell you this you really don’t want to take Iboga in the winter, lolol better off in Bora Bora lolol
I off for a steam bath in a bout to hours then a massage. Hey bro, food and warmth deffinetley beats SCAG, any day. Plus it is cheaper.
I only niggle you for the baccy cos it will kill you.
Ok I hear you say you are no stranger to pain, but it ain’t no nice way to die.
That is why I hassle you so. OK
Drowning in your own Sputtum and Vomit and blood. No air. I think I would tear my throat out. I know why I started, my problem was I could not stop.lolol
I am extremely Glad and happy for today that I gave up when I did. The food is amazing. The taste is like jewelry in my mind. That was why I stopped smoking. To make the most of the Iboga. I am only sorry I did not drop the Benzos first, as my head has been in the eye of a Hurricane for many months now.
One point of note to any one reading this and considering taking Iboga. Opiates OK your choice. It is all your choice at the end of the day.
My experience is that.
Benzos should be dropped before Iboga as the withdrawal of the said is one hell of a bitch to try and control. It teaches you pure mind control though. That is for sure. lolol
I haven’t been able to drop the Benzos From 150mg 8 months ago untill 1.2mg three days back.
Ripped but able to now control my body with exercise.
Benzos suck they are no bodies friend. It ain’t really what they do to your head, they mash your body without you even realising. They crush your Spirit.
And like Meth, they stop your bodies ability to simulate, Mentally, physically and ultimately Spiritually.
So for the likes of Ron. Who maybe reads the posts. Drop the Benzos fist. I done it before and didn’t really notice them, cos I was slugging to much Meth. The Meth and Opiates in general are easier to beat than Valium.
I had the help of Iboga and I can tell you I did it the wrong way round. Never mind home safe and sound now lolol
Wow that was some Storm lolol
Comprende’

The Sunbed helps to get your body functioning, but because you drop the Benzos, you take off. ZAP.
Everything reversed.
Addicts NEED Sunlight, water and food. Lots of and if possible all the time.
We took and take so much crap, mental physical and so blinding our Spirits, that we don’t even get a chance in one life time. To stop and see who we really are.
I told a good friend of my concept that we where all just Monkeys without tales. And if we had the chance we would hang upside down in the trees all day and eat fruit and make love.
He said he didn’t believe that, but still believed in |God. That confused me, cos he, as a Christian should have known that the Book of GENESIS is about creation of the Animals in the Kingdom and that MAn was one of them, set apart, too to stand in a different hierarchy. Given rule over all the animals of the earth and allowed to partake of all the good fruits of the field.
This is what we cannot see as addicts. Are impulse to just switch off is greater than our natural creativity. So we lose contact with are primeval self. Man is an Animal. The such as like the monkey cos he enjoys being lazy Humours himself. Eats lot and gets Horny. Without the drugs you get a much better kick out of life. Plus also you get the freedom to be you, and not a slave to the System. Whoever you like to be as long as you are clean.
True and have respect.
At the Country Club we stayed at this weekend. I was dressed in tatty clothes and my torn leather jacket and I still got respect from everyone. I guess they thought maybe I was a bit eccentric, eating in the restaraunt, a chicken with my fingers.
I did notice the people who smoked didn’t have so much gaiety. Where not so happy.
Three three course dinners and lots of fussing yourself gets you back in your body.
So my prayer for the list this day is:

Father, our Creator, I pray that you give unto us this day all that we may require in strength and Honour so that we can learn who are enemies are and give us the Power to overcome them . Now and forevermore. Amen!

Bless you all for the Spiritual Sand paper. Drop the Drugs now and carry through and unto Glory. lolol
Bliss beyond FEAR:)
Have good day people, be good now.
Bless you all Paul:)’

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From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Fwd: Back to Danna’ Scrolls Roll. Paper, Rock or Gold.
Date: April 10, 2006 at 10:40:09 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Preston, You are not getting cut any slack lately are you? lol! Hang in there though! What matters most is our own conscious! Love you!
Hugs!
Callie

From: Crooked Eye <iboganaut420@yahoo.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] NEW DRUG CP(OT!!)
Date: April 10, 2006 at 3:11:53 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

http://www.thoughtspam.com/cloudy/

Check it out!!  CP or 5-MeO-W!!

CE

How low will we go? Check out Yahoo! Messenger’s low PC-to-Phone call rates.

From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Fwd: Back to Danna’ Scrolls Roll. Paper, Rock or Gold.
Date: April 10, 2006 at 9:52:28 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

OK Judge and be Judged. I Judge you Preston, cos you lied and tryed to hurt
people who tryed to help you by tearing down a gift given freely.<

Excuse me? When in the heck did I ever lie on this list?
What in the world are you going on about Paul?

Oh Foolish Notions of Grandeur!<

LOL! In light of the entire preceding message, this has simply got to be the punch line, right?

—–
“If God dropped acid, would he see people?”  ~Steven Wright

Peace, love and lotsof respect.
Preston Peet
ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor Underground- the Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations, Astonishing Archaeology and Hidden History
Editor Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Columnist HighTimes mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —– From: “Paul Brookshaw” <jiggy9@hotmail.co.uk>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Monday, April 10, 2006 3:05 AM
Subject: [Ibogaine] Fwd: Back to Danna’ Scrolls Roll. Paper, Rock or Gold.

Sorry people,
But this is all just a load of Garbage.
I say this cos, all of the work done here goes no where. Why spend the whole of your time trying to understand something that in the end would and is totally ungraspable. If the said scrolls are authentic, then they are just another story of someone-else’s interpretation of what they saw at the time. What does it matter if, the Pygmies used Iboga or any other kind of plant or Shroom so that they could play Physiological and Spiritual Ping Pong.
Sorry people you get bogged down in all that Archaeology and you are going to get one to a million different stories. It is just called the Philosopher’s Song. Poets wrote Sonnets and the so called Men of Wisdom wrote.
But at the end of the day they are just stories. Just like the bible or any other religious tract.
The truth of the matter should be,. The way you conduct your life and how you relate to other People. All this time and effort is a complete waste.
Danna, why don’t you put all of this energy you seem to have to work for the good of people instead of trying to make yourself seem important to everyone.
Eye seeing and Men pleasing is just a crutch to hold onto out of insecurity.
Get a life and get your head straight mate.
If you really want to know about life, live it instead of studying it. All this study is just like Warfare. Where does it get you.
I suppose it makes you feel important, but the importance of being is what you should be exploring. You have the wrong keys mate.
You are out balanced by, Jnana. Knowledge, when the true path to enlightenment stand in Samadhi, Union of the Six Paths. We would as individuals never be able to attain all of these paths in one hit,(one mortal life) but, Mate you got to take stock.
You have forgotten about the now and listening to let your body talk to you. You only seem to want to Dazzle People with Knowledge, that does not make you clever, cos, at the end of the day what can you use all that crap for. You can’t eat it and you can’t take it with you when you die.
OK it makes for interesting reading, but what are you supposed to be doing with your life? Why did you take Iboga if you only wanted to get a head full of stories.
You lost the original reason why God the Creator places all the herbs on this Rock. So that Man could experience another state of consciousness other than what he perceived as being boring old reality. Possibly the reason why God Created Man. So that He, they, could experience something other than themselves. MultiFaceted, must be quite a strain to live with for all eternity lolol.
Danna, I only write out of a pure conscience to try and get you to stop the internal struggle you seem to be living with.
You have great Jnana, but you have forgotten about the rest of the paths that one must encounter so a to remain complete and well balanced.
Numbers. Why don’t you try learning to stick with, 1,3,4,6,7,8,9, and the Glory of Twelve. Keep it simple. You have a lot of 1s. Ego, and one hell of a lot of fives:) Arrogant Pride!!!
Some of the 4 in you gets your daily tasks done, but where is your 6, 7, 8, 9 and of cause 12.
You profess one Hell of a lot and whinge and wine deeply.
You need to get back to your Roots Danna. Get back to who you really are and not what you think you may want to be.
Your thought is lost in vain imaginings. Quite enjoyable know doubt for your EGO, but where is your brotherly love compassion and of cause Charity. For Charity my friend carries no Chain, but you seem to carry many, plus balls of Iron. Why do you bog yourself down with things that you will never get the answers for. When you should be looking inside of your own self for the answers not getting stuck in the rubbish of Man’s Stupid Mind.
Scientist only make money out of being able to work out complex solutions to simple problems.
Blow the world to pieces and leave Man here without the 20th Century succor and you will just be left with the MAN. Hunter gatherer by Nature and only needs to fight to protect his family. The world is supposed to be your family mate. How come you keep fighting it?
Many Great Civilizations have totally self destructed because of toooooooooo much input. Take the GATHS for instants. They where so proud that they5 couldn’t even make love properly. lolol
The Egyptians used Deception to get the job done and the Babylonians definitely Smashed the world as we now know it into its present form and chaos of destruction. Time, Money, Slavery(Deceptions) Cats, female, looking in two directions at the same time.
Please, I pray come out of the dark place you are in and only look to yourself. Self love is not selfish. It only took me 43 years to learn that one lolol
I ain’t no great scholar, but nearly 4 years at LEEDS UNIVERSITY studying, Math, Chemistry, Physics, Biology and Socialology at a Higher National Degree, taught me shit. (Got me in a few crazy Labs and well Mirrored:, but;) Nothing that I could eat drink or use to survive if all this crap comes down tomorrow. Other than my Gut instinct and slef taught skills.
You have totally hit number one with your bullet, bro, but totally missed the Mark:)~~~’
Bosha’ you lost it in knowledge.
I give to you and pray you sit upon your creator the gifts of the Yogi. Who sort after self enlightenment through discipline and Obedience, and also pray that you learn to channel your energies in ways more constructive than just getting a big head and a proud Heart.
You have asked out of your pain for a long long time for someone to tell you where you are going wrong, but out of your own fear you are misguiding yourself.
Pray sit, forget about Knowledge for the sake of knowledge and see and hear, taste and breath, feel and love  cry and laugh and sing and Pray. Cast down your pride and Anger. Learn to forgive yourself.
Question? Do you Smoke Tobbacco? As you seem to have the Spirit of the Deceiver within you.
Just be MAN. PEACE and of cause love shall conquer all your fears.
As guidance you should be looking at your self as the whole MAN, and not trying to edify yourself in the eyes of your fellow MAN, for this is Vanity. Warfare again for the sake of Warfare.
Why do you always want to be the CONTROL FREAK. IS THIS A CAREER THING WITH YOU OR IS IT JUST YOUR WAY OF TRYING TO HIDE YOUR OWN INSECURITIES???
You are as BAD and TERRIBLE as little Preston.
(OK Judge and be Judged. I Judge you Preston, cos you lied and tryed to hurt people who tryed to help you by tearing down a gift given freely. Sow the Seeds and Reap the Harvest. You can judge me, if you like. I am only a simple Man. Once misguided. I am clean, now).
Scurrying around like a headless ANT. Trying to gather grains of Sugar before the Sun comes out completely and melts them. What you seek has no form, no metal no Power. And so no light. GOT IT!!! STOP. BE STILL. LISTEN. SIT THE MONKEY IN YOU HEAD DOWN AND JUST BE!!! Shalom.’ Tell him to put all his toys away in the proper place and teach him to play with only one toy at a time. Then you will be able to use your energies, positively for your own edification and not the Pomp you seem to seek.
Pray remember WORRY FOR THE SAKE OF WORRY IS A SIN. TALLY FOR THE SAKE OF TALLY IS A WASTE OF TIME. WARFARE????? COME ON DANNA GET IT SORTED MATE. PEOPLE LOOK TO YOU FOR GUIDANCE AND YOU BOGGLE THIER MINDS.
NO WONDER THEY MADE IBOGA ILLIGAL IN THE USA. ;)’
ARN’T THERE ENOUGH EGOTISTICAL MEGLOMAINIACS IN THIS WORLD WITHOUT YOU ADDING TO THE CHAOS?
Look my friend.
A Gift, CONCEPTION, Given not taken, but received Freely  as a child. Never lost only blinded.

WEAVE AND WOVE, TUCK AND ROLL, CAST AND HAUL, WINNOW AND GLEAN. TOOLS!!!
TURN AND LAY THE OTHER WAY DANNA BEAL, TURN AND LAY. WRAP AND WHIP. TUCK AND SPLICE. GRAFT. And grow. Sow and Reap. You have forgotten Grace my friend.
Sunday dinner is to dry without the sweet savour of Gravy. It is like trying to eat the Dead butts in the ash tray, with no water, way too dry.

Rile for the sake of Rile.
You are like a foolish Young Lion with a Thorn in your Paw, Sorry and Sore, but all you may do is lick your Pad.
For you do not have any Tweezers for to remove the Thorn. So many Tools you do not know what to use.
You have Sorely Treated yourself my Friend. I laugh. Ah! you make me cry my friend. Why do you Tarry So??? Pray tell.?
Why?
You can’t have it all mate it ain’t yours to give and it ain’t yours to have.
Why would anyone, in one mortal life, seek such immense Knowledge of the Kingdom Other than God.
You are a Man DANNA not a god.
There is and was only room for one ever. We are but humble servants of the King.
You lost the plot mate. For sure!!!

Oh Foolish Notions of Grandeur!

One said Truth is.

To be Or not !!!         Your question mate not mine!!!
Yashawe’ I go to pray as the Sun has Risen.
Blessings be with you and yours this day. And Pray my friend Pray.
Shalom Paul;)’
Ah DAnna, You brake my Heart Man.~’

_________________________________________________________________
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From: “Paul Brookshaw” <jiggy9@hotmail.co.uk>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Howard and Sara’
Date: April 10, 2006 at 5:01:03 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Great to read some truth at last.
From my experience Naltrexone, blocks the reseptors and then scares the living hell out of you. lol
The only reason a lot of people elapse after Nalorex is that it has bad side effects, like walking pains in the head and kidneys, and also does nothing for the etadent withdrawl.
I couldn’t eat properly for nearly a year.
Nice work people. I only pray my effort was of service. Maybe open a few eyes.
And take down some barriers.
You got to be the strongest person you know to take Iboga, but that is good cos you are the person you are really seeking. Bless you both for you help, compassion and assistance.
Work to do Bless Paul:)

From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] Sara on Dutch TV – NOVA ibogaine report
Date: Thu, 30 Mar 2006 01:06:51 EST

In a message dated 3/25/06 11:40:15 AM, sara119@xs4all.nl writes:

> this is on tonight here about the Iboga treatment.
>
>
> best wishes,
>
> Sara
>
> http://www.novatv.nl/index.cfm?ln=nl&fuseaction=videoaudio.details&
> reportage_id=4220
>
>
I asked one of my Dutch speaking friends to monitor the program and I
received a glowing report that follows. It would be very positive if the Dutch were
to pick up the research. Very good work Sara.

Howard
*******************
This is a very positive pro-Ibogaine documentary. Nova also holds high
regard in terms of scientific reporting – it’s excellent – you can be really
stoked about this.

Leenders and Fromberg simply explain that yes Ibogaine really works, there
is no doubt about it and Fromberg says it even has been proven in
pharmacological research done in Rotterdam (not sure which research he’s
referring to). When asked about the “shady treatment settings” like the ones
with Sara, Leenders says these settings are not shady at all. Where there is
demand there is supply, and if the government doesn’t provide it other
people will. He also says that Ibogaine is not a recreational substance,
that the experience is really intense and should be done under proper
guidance.

It is the Ministry of Health that come out as the bad guys for not studying
Ibogaine. The Ministry admits comparing Ibogaine to
Naltrexone-under-narcosis and they are saying that since Naltrexone didn’t
work with cravings then Ibogaine would be doubtable in this department as
well. They are somewhat vaguely saying that this now might be a wrong
assumption.

The documentary ends on the note saying that Ibogaine is not being research
in Holland (and it really is making the Dutch government look like idiots
because they mention this) and that it IS being researched in other
countries, like the USA and that conclusive, positive information is
expected within the next few years as to how/why it works.

Wow! Very, very cool documentary. Be stoked, very stoked! Leenders and
Fromberg are 100+% behind Ibogaine, nothing but super-positive stuff from
them; they are your allies.

_________________________________________________________________
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From: Kirk <captkirk@clear.net.nz>
Subject: [Ibogaine] re:allan
Date: April 10, 2006 at 4:36:46 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Billy

P.S. Where is Allan?

Allan is taking some time out. I’m sure he’ll be back and feeling heaps better.
Kirk

—-Original Message Follows—-
From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Fwd: Gospel of Judas
Date: Sun, 9 Apr 2006 05:53:20 -0400
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FILETIME=[F1CA1900:01C65BC0]

“an obvious end-times deception” is how an in-law put his reaction to my
sending him a link about this Gospel of Judas.
Egad.
Fundamentalist christians preaching “god this, god that, jesus this, jesus
that,” scare me as much as the Taliban ever would.
—–
“If God dropped acid, would he see people?”  ~Steven Wright

Peace, love and lotsof respect.
Preston Peet
ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor Underground- the Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations,
Astonishing Archaeology and Hidden History
Editor Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Columnist HighTimes mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —– From: Dana Beal
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Saturday, April 08, 2006 4:23 PM
Subject: [Ibogaine] Fwd: Gospel of Judas

New gnostic gospel supports passover plot account, thereby buttressing the
role of Grail contents with neuro-protective properties as a forensic
explanation of what happened in the crucifixion and resurrection.

I now believe that ibogaine may actually have been one of the ingredients in
the Grail mixture– because it makes the body? totally numb and able to take
being pierced without pain or flinching, and because it’s been patented for
ischemia, which is a kind of global stroke effect brought on during
Crucifixion by gradual suffocation caused by the windpipe being cut off when
the crucified would lean forward trying to rest. Other ingredients would
have been some harmaline and possibly cannabis, but not ephedra, which would
be unnecessary with the iboga.

If Egyptian mummies have been found with traces of cocaine and nicotine
(from the Americas), they couldn’t have had that much trouble getting a bit
of root-bark from the sub-Sahara. Iboga originates with the Pygmy, who
supposedly had it before anyone else. Somewhere I heard or read?(and maybe
some one on the list can provide the citation.)?that the Pygmy first had it
in the Rift Valley, 20,000 years ago.?

So the theory is that harmaline was involved in the initiation of the
Persian Shah, iboga in the ordination of the Pharaoh. Christ claimed the
mantel of both, of course.

Dana/cnw?

Begin forwarded message:

From: “William T. Brennan” <wtb208@stern.nyu.edu>
Date: April 6, 2006 10:40:49 PM EDT
To: dana@phantom.com
Subject: Gospel of Judas

Hi Dana,

I hope all’s been well this week.

You may have heard by now, but the Gospel of Judas has recently surfaced.?
I’ve copied the NYT story below and have attached a translation of the
gospel.? The unquestionably gnostic thread running through it seems like
it’s right up your alley. ?

Predictably, I’ve combed through it looking for potential mushroom
references that line up with other more obvious gnostic mushroom references
(Heinrich, 2002) and feel like I’ve found a few.? Here they are with some
notes:

?Often he did not appear to his disciples as himself, but he was found among
them as a child.?

I would love to find out what Greek term was used for ?child,? and to get
into its etymology.? I?m pretty sure that it?s in Greek mythology (note that
this gospel was originally written in Greek) that mushrooms are often
referred to in childish terms (e.g., the ?little ones?).? This line is
especially suspect since the rest of the passage makes no reference to Jesus
as a child.

One day he was with his disciples in Judea, and he found them gathered
together and seated in pious observance. When he [approached] his disciples,
[34] gathered >>together and seated and offering a prayer of thanksgiving
over the bread, [he] laughed.
The disciples said to [him], ?Master, why are you laughing at [our] prayer
of
thanksgiving? We have done what is right.?
He answered and said to them, ?I am not laughing at you. <You> are not doing
this because of your own will but because it is through this that your god
[will be] praised.?
They said, ?Master, you are [?] the son of our god.?
Jesus said to them, ?How do you know me? Truly [I] say to you, no generation
of the people that are among you will know me.?

?When Jesus observed their lack of [understanding, he said] to them, ?Why
has this agitation led you to anger? Your god who is within you and [?]?

?Knowing that Judas was reflecting upon something that was exalted, Jesus
said to him,
?Step away from the others and I shall tell you the mysteries of the
kingdom.?

Jesus seems to be mocking their ?bread eating? ritual by noting that it?s
putting them in touch with a different god.? Judas, on the other hand, gets
favored and enters into ?conversation? with Jesus because only he rightfully
identifies him.? As you know, different species of Amanitas look pretty
similar, and even when you find the right (psychoactive) one, they?re
notoriously hard to get a psychedelic trip out of.? Maybe this difficulty is
what?s contributing to their ?praising of another god.?

?A great angel, the enlightened divine Self-Generated, emerged from the
cloud.?

Self-generated?? From the cloud?? Self-generation is unavoidable for a
Creator god, but this ?great angel? was brought into being by a greater
power.? Why would the text run the risk of coming across as
self-contradictory by dubbing him/her/it ?self-created??? This odd,
quasi-incorrect description of the angel sounds like a traditional mythic
mushroom reference to me (i.e., no visible seed, springing up in the wake of
clouds).

I’m skeptical myself, but it’s worth thinking about.? In other news, the
postering is going really well on Long Island, and I’ll be getting started
on the NYU campus area soon as well (assuming no one else has hit it yet).?
I’ve got some more things to talk about, both related to the march and the
Ibogaine book, so I’ll talk to you soon. ?

-Bill

Here’s the NYT story:

April 6, 2006
‘Gospel of Judas’ Surfaces After 1,700 Years
By JOHN NOBLE WILFORD and LAURIE GOODSTEIN

An early Christian manuscript, including the only known text of what?
is known as the Gospel of Judas, has surfaced after 1,700 years. The?
text gives new insights into the relationship of Jesus and the?
disciple who betrayed him, scholars reported today. In this version,?
Jesus asked Judas, as a close friend, to sell him out to the?
authorities, telling Judas he will “exceed” the other disciples by?
doing so.

Though some theologians have hypothesized this, scholars who have?
studied the new-found text said, this is the first time an ancient?
document defends the idea.

The discovery in the desert of Egypt of the leather-bound papyrus?
manuscript, and now its translation, was announced by the National?
Geographic Society at a news conference in Washington. The 26-page?
Judas text is said to be a copy in Coptic, made around A. D. 300, of?
the original Gospel of Judas, written in Greek the century before.

Terry Garcia, an executive vice president of the geographic society,?
said the manuscript, or codex, is considered by scholars and?
scientists to be the most significant ancient, nonbiblical text to be?
found in the past 60 years.

“The codex has been authenticated as a genuine work of ancient?
Christian apocryphal literature,” Mr. Garcia said, citing extensive?
tests of radiocarbon dating, ink analysis and multispectral imaging?
and studies of the script and linguistic style. The ink, for example,?
was consistent with ink of that era, and there was no evidence of?
multiple rewriting.

“This is absolutely typical of ancient Coptic manuscripts,” said?
Stephen Emmel, professor of Coptic studies at the University of?
Munster in Germany. “I am completely convinced.”

The most revealing passages in the Judas manuscript begins, “The?
secret account of the revelation that Jesus spoke in conversation?
with Judas Iscariot during a week, three days before he celebrated?
Passover.”

The account goes on to relate that Jesus refers to the other?
disciples, telling Judas “you will exceed all of them. For you will?
sacrifice the man that clothes me.” By that, scholars familiar with?
Gnostic thinking said, Jesus meant that by helping him get rid of his?
physical flesh, Judas will act to liberate the true spiritual self or?
divine being within Jesus.

Unlike the accounts in the New Testament Gospels of Matthew, Mark,?
Luke and John, the anonymous author of the Gospel of Judas believed?
that Judas Iscariot alone among the 12 disciples understood the?
meaning of Jesus’ teachings and acceded to his will. In the diversity?
of early Christian thought, a group known as Gnostics believed in a?
secret knowledge of how people could escape the prisons of their?
material bodies and return to the spiritual realm from which they came.

Elaine Pagels, a professor of religion at Princeton who specializes?
in studies of the Gnostics, said in a statement, “These discoveries?
are exploding the myth of a monolithic religion, and demonstrating?
how diverse ? and fascinating ? the early Christian movement really?
was.”

The Gospel of Judas is only one of many texts discovered in the last?
65 years, including the gospels of Thomas, Mary Magdalene and Philip,?
believed to be written by Gnostics.

The Gnostics’ beliefs were often viewed by bishops and early church?
leaders as unorthodox, and they were frequently denounced as?
heretics. The discoveries of Gnostic texts have shaken up Biblical?
scholarship by revealing the diversity of beliefs and practices among?
early followers of Jesus.

As the findings have trickled down to churches and universities, they?
have produced a new generation of Christians who now regard the Bible?
not as the literal word of God, but as a product of historical and?
political forces that determined which texts should be included in?
the canon, and which edited out.

For that reason, the discoveries have proved deeply troubling for?
many believers. The Gospel of Judas portrays Judas Iscariot not as a?
betrayer of Jesus, but as his most favored disciple and willing?
collaborator.

Scholars say that they have long been on the lookout for the Gospel?
of Judas because of a reference to what was probably an early version?
of it in a text called Against Heresies, written by Irenaeus, the?
bishop of Lyons, about the year 180.

Irenaeus was a hunter of heretics, and no friend of the Gnostics. He?
wrote, “They produce a fictitious history of this kind, which they?
style the Gospel of Judas.”

Karen L. King, a professor of the history of early Christianity at?
Harvard Divinity School, and an expert in Gnosticism who has not yet?
read the manuscript released today, said that the Gospel of Judas may?
well reflect the kinds of debates that arose in the second and third?
century among Christians.

“You can see how early Christians could say, if Jesus’s death was all?
part of God’s plan, then Judas’s betrayal was part of God’s plan,”?
said Ms. King, the author of several books on the Gospel of Mary. “So?
what does that make Judas? Is he the betrayer, or the facilitator of?
salvation, the guy who makes the crucifixion possible?”

At least one scholar said the new manuscript does not contain?
anything dramatic that would change or undermine traditional?
understanding of the Bible. James M. Robinson, a retired professor of?
Coptic studies at Claremont Graduate University, was the general?
editor of the English edition of the Nag Hammadi library, a?
collection of Gnostic documents discovered in Egypt in 1945.

“Correctly understood, there’s nothing undermining about the Gospel?
of Judas,” Mr. Robinson said in a telephone interview. He said that?
the New Testament gospels of John and Mark both contain passages that?
suggest that Jesus not only picked Judas to betray him, but actually?
encouraged Judas to hand him over to those he knew would crucify him.

Mr. Robinson’s book, “The Secrets of Judas: The Story of the?
Misunderstood Disciple and his Lost Gospel” (Harper San Francisco,?
April 2006), predicts the contents of the Gospel of Judas based on?
his knowledge of Gnostic and Coptic texts, even though he was not?
part of the team of researchers working on the document.

The Egyptian copy of the gospel was written on 13 sheets of papyrus,?
both front and back, and found in a multitude of brittle fragments.

Rudolphe Kasser, a Swiss scholar of Coptic studies, directed the team?
that reconstructed and translated the script. The effort, organized?
by the National Geographic, was supported by Maecenas Foundation for?
Ancient Art, in Basel, Switzerland, and the Waitt Institute for?
Historical Discovery, an American nonprofit organization for the?
application of technology in historical and scientific projects.

The entire 66-page codex also contains a text titled James (also?
known as First Apocalypse of James), a letter by Peter and a text of?
what scholars are provisionally calling Book of Allogenes.

Discovered in the 1970’s in a cavern near El Minya, Egypt, the?
document circulated for years among antiquities dealers in Egypt,?
then Europe and finally in the United States. It moldered in a safe-
deposit box at a bank in Hicksville, N. Y., for 16 years before being?
bought in 2000 by a Zurich dealer, Frieda Nussberger-Tchacos. The?
manuscript was given the name Codex Tchacos.

When attempts to resell the codex failed, Ms. Nussberger-Tchacos?
turned it over to the Maecenas Foundation for conservation and?
translation.

Mr. Robinson said that an Egyptian antiquities dealer offered to sell?
him the document in 1983 for $3 million, but that he could not raise?
the money. He criticized the scholars now associated with the?
project, some of whom are his former students, because he said they?
violated an agreement made years ago by Coptic scholars that new?
discoveries should be made accessible to all qualified scholars.

The manuscript will ultimately be returned to Egypt, where it was?
discovered, and housed in the Coptic Museum in Cairo.

Ted Waitt, the founder and former chief executive of Gateway, said?
that his foundation, the Waitt Institute for Historical Discovery,?
gave the National Geographic Society a grant of more than $1 million?
to restore and preserve the manuscript and make it available to the?
public.

” I didn’t know a whole lot until I got into this about the early?
days of Christianity. It was just extremely fascinating to me,” Mr.?
Waitt said in a telephone interview. He said he had no motivation?
other than being fascinated by the finding. He said that after the?
document was carbon dated and the ink tested, procedures his?
foundation paid for, he had no question about its authenticity. “You?
can potentially question the translation and the interpretation, he?
said, but you can’t fake something like this. It would be impossible.”

New gnostic gospel supports passover plot account, thereby
buttressing the role of Grail contents with neuro-protective
properties as a forensic explanation of what happened in the
crucifixion and resurrection.

I now believe that ibogaine may actually have been one of the
ingredients in the Grail mixture– because it makes the body  totally
numb and able to take being pierced without pain or flinching, and
because it’s been patented for ischemia, which is a kind of global
stroke effect brought on during Crucifixion by gradual suffocation
caused by the windpipe being cut off when the crucified would lean
forward trying to rest. Other ingredients would have been some
harmaline and possibly cannabis, but not ephedra, which would be
unnecessary with the iboga.

If Egyptian mummies have been found with traces of cocaine and
nicotine (from the Americas), they couldn’t have had that much
trouble getting a bit of root-bark from the sub-Sahara. Iboga
originates with the Pygmy, who supposedly had it before anyone else.
Somewhere I heard or read (and maybe some one on the list can provide
the citation.) that the Pygmy first had it in the Rift Valley, 20,000
years ago.

So the theory is that harmaline was involved in the initiation of the
Persian Shah, iboga in the ordination of the Pharaoh. Christ claimed
the mantel of both, of course.

Dana/cnw

Begin forwarded message:

From: “William T. Brennan” <wtb208@stern.nyu.edu>
Date: April 6, 2006 10:40:49 PM EDT
To: dana@phantom.com
Subject: Gospel of Judas

Hi Dana,

I hope all’s been well this week.

You may have heard by now, but the Gospel of Judas has recently
surfaced.  I’ve copied the NYT story below and have attached a
translation of the gospel.  The unquestionably gnostic thread
running through it seems like it’s right up your alley.

Predictably, I’ve combed through it looking for potential mushroom
references that line up with other more obvious gnostic mushroom
references (Heinrich, 2002) and feel like I’ve found a few.  Here
they are with some notes:

“Often he did not appear to his disciples as himself, but he was
found among them as a child.”

I would love to find out what Greek term was used for “child,”
and to get into its etymology.  I’m pretty sure that it’s in
Greek mythology (note that this gospel was originally written in
Greek) that mushrooms are often referred to in childish terms
(e.g., the “little ones”).  This line is especially suspect
since the rest of the passage makes no reference to Jesus as a child.

One day he was with his disciples in Judea, and he found them
gathered together and seated in pious observance. When he
[approached] his disciples, [34] gathered >>together and seated
and offering a prayer of thanksgiving over the bread, [he] laughed.
The disciples said to [him], “Master, why are you laughing at
[our] prayer of
thanksgiving? We have done what is right.”
He answered and said to them, “I am not laughing at you. <You>
are not doing this because of your own will but because it is
through this that your god [will be] praised.”
They said, “Master, you are […] the son of our god.”
Jesus said to them, “How do you know me? Truly [I] say to you,
no generation of the people that are among you will know me.”

“When Jesus observed their lack of [understanding, he said] to
them, “Why has this agitation led you to anger? Your god who is
within you and […]”

“Knowing that Judas was reflecting upon something that was
exalted, Jesus said to him,
“Step away from the others and I shall tell you the mysteries of
the kingdom.”

Jesus seems to be mocking their “bread eating” ritual by noting
that it’s putting them in touch with a different god.  Judas, on
the other hand, gets favored and enters into “conversation” with
Jesus because only he rightfully identifies him.  As you know,
different species of Amanitas look pretty similar, and even when
you find the right (psychoactive) one, they’re notoriously hard to
get a psychedelic trip out of.  Maybe this difficulty is what’s
contributing to their “praising of another god.”

“A great angel, the enlightened divine Self-Generated, emerged
from the cloud.”

Self-generated?  From the cloud?  Self-generation is unavoidable
for a Creator god, but this “great angel” was brought into being
by a greater power.  Why would the text run the risk of coming
across as self-contradictory by dubbing him/her/it “self-
created?”  This odd, quasi-incorrect description of the angel
sounds like a traditional mythic mushroom reference to me (i.e., no
visible seed, springing up in the wake of clouds).

I’m skeptical myself, but it’s worth thinking about.  In other
news, the postering is going really well on Long Island, and I’ll
be getting started on the NYU campus area soon as well (assuming no
one else has hit it yet).  I’ve got some more things to talk about,
both related to the march and the Ibogaine book, so I’ll talk to
you soon.

-Bill

Here’s the NYT story:

April 6, 2006
‘Gospel of Judas’ Surfaces After 1,700 Years
By JOHN NOBLE WILFORD and LAURIE GOODSTEIN

An early Christian manuscript, including the only known text of what
is known as the Gospel of Judas, has surfaced after 1,700 years. The
text gives new insights into the relationship of Jesus and the
disciple who betrayed him, scholars reported today. In this version,
Jesus asked Judas, as a close friend, to sell him out to the
authorities, telling Judas he will “exceed” the other disciples by
doing so.

Though some theologians have hypothesized this, scholars who have
studied the new-found text said, this is the first time an ancient
document defends the idea.

The discovery in the desert of Egypt of the leather-bound papyrus
manuscript, and now its translation, was announced by the National
Geographic Society at a news conference in Washington. The 26-page
Judas text is said to be a copy in Coptic, made around A. D. 300, of
the original Gospel of Judas, written in Greek the century before.

Terry Garcia, an executive vice president of the geographic society,
said the manuscript, or codex, is considered by scholars and
scientists to be the most significant ancient, nonbiblical text to be
found in the past 60 years.

“The codex has been authenticated as a genuine work of ancient
Christian apocryphal literature,” Mr. Garcia said, citing extensive
tests of radiocarbon dating, ink analysis and multispectral imaging
and studies of the script and linguistic style. The ink, for example,
was consistent with ink of that era, and there was no evidence of
multiple rewriting.

“This is absolutely typical of ancient Coptic manuscripts,” said
Stephen Emmel, professor of Coptic studies at the University of
Munster in Germany. “I am completely convinced.”

The most revealing passages in the Judas manuscript begins, “The
secret account of the revelation that Jesus spoke in conversation
with Judas Iscariot during a week, three days before he celebrated
Passover.”

The account goes on to relate that Jesus refers to the other
disciples, telling Judas “you will exceed all of them. For you will
sacrifice the man that clothes me.” By that, scholars familiar with
Gnostic thinking said, Jesus meant that by helping him get rid of his
physical flesh, Judas will act to liberate the true spiritual self or
divine being within Jesus.

Unlike the accounts in the New Testament Gospels of Matthew, Mark,
Luke and John, the anonymous author of the Gospel of Judas believed
that Judas Iscariot alone among the 12 disciples understood the
meaning of Jesus’ teachings and acceded to his will. In the diversity
of early Christian thought, a group known as Gnostics believed in a
secret knowledge of how people could escape the prisons of their
material bodies and return to the spiritual realm from which they
came.

Elaine Pagels, a professor of religion at Princeton who specializes
in studies of the Gnostics, said in a statement, “These discoveries
are exploding the myth of a monolithic religion, and demonstrating
how diverse — and fascinating — the early Christian movement
really
was.”

The Gospel of Judas is only one of many texts discovered in the last
65 years, including the gospels of Thomas, Mary Magdalene and Philip,
believed to be written by Gnostics.

The Gnostics’ beliefs were often viewed by bishops and early church
leaders as unorthodox, and they were frequently denounced as
heretics. The discoveries of Gnostic texts have shaken up Biblical
scholarship by revealing the diversity of beliefs and practices among
early followers of Jesus.

As the findings have trickled down to churches and universities, they
have produced a new generation of Christians who now regard the Bible
not as the literal word of God, but as a product of historical and
political forces that determined which texts should be included in
the canon, and which edited out.

For that reason, the discoveries have proved deeply troubling for
many believers. The Gospel of Judas portrays Judas Iscariot not as a
betrayer of Jesus, but as his most favored disciple and willing
collaborator.

Scholars say that they have long been on the lookout for the Gospel
of Judas because of a reference to what was probably an early version
of it in a text called Against Heresies, written by Irenaeus, the
bishop of Lyons, about the year 180.

Irenaeus was a hunter of heretics, and no friend of the Gnostics. He
wrote, “They produce a fictitious history of this kind, which they
style the Gospel of Judas.”

Karen L. King, a professor of the history of early Christianity at
Harvard Divinity School, and an expert in Gnosticism who has not yet
read the manuscript released today, said that the Gospel of Judas may
well reflect the kinds of debates that arose in the second and third
century among Christians.

“You can see how early Christians could say, if Jesus’s death was all
part of God’s plan, then Judas’s betrayal was part of God’s plan,”
said Ms. King, the author of several books on the Gospel of Mary. “So
what does that make Judas? Is he the betrayer, or the facilitator of
salvation, the guy who makes the crucifixion possible?”

At least one scholar said the new manuscript does not contain
anything dramatic that would change or undermine traditional
understanding of the Bible. James M. Robinson, a retired professor of
Coptic studies at Claremont Graduate University, was the general
editor of the English edition of the Nag Hammadi library, a
collection of Gnostic documents discovered in Egypt in 1945.

“Correctly understood, there’s nothing undermining about the Gospel
of Judas,” Mr. Robinson said in a telephone interview. He said that
the New Testament gospels of John and Mark both contain passages that
suggest that Jesus not only picked Judas to betray him, but actually
encouraged Judas to hand him over to those he knew would crucify him.

Mr. Robinson’s book, “The Secrets of Judas: The Story of the
Misunderstood Disciple and his Lost Gospel” (Harper San Francisco,
April 2006), predicts the contents of the Gospel of Judas based on
his knowledge of Gnostic and Coptic texts, even though he was not
part of the team of researchers working on the document.

The Egyptian copy of the gospel was written on 13 sheets of papyrus,
both front and back, and found in a multitude of brittle fragments.

Rudolphe Kasser, a Swiss scholar of Coptic studies, directed the team
that reconstructed and translated the script. The effort, organized
by the National Geographic, was supported by Maecenas Foundation for
Ancient Art, in Basel, Switzerland, and the Waitt Institute for
Historical Discovery, an American nonprofit organization for the
application of technology in historical and scientific projects.

The entire 66-page codex also contains a text titled James (also
known as First Apocalypse of James), a letter by Peter and a text of
what scholars are provisionally calling Book of Allogenes.

Discovered in the 1970’s in a cavern near El Minya, Egypt, the
document circulated for years among antiquities dealers in Egypt,
then Europe and finally in the United States. It moldered in a safe-
deposit box at a bank in Hicksville, N. Y., for 16 years before being
bought in 2000 by a Zurich dealer, Frieda Nussberger-Tchacos. The
manuscript was given the name Codex Tchacos.

When attempts to resell the codex failed, Ms. Nussberger-Tchacos
turned it over to the Maecenas Foundation for conservation and
translation.

Mr. Robinson said that an Egyptian antiquities dealer offered to sell
him the document in 1983 for $3 million, but that he could not raise
the money. He criticized the scholars now associated with the
project, some of whom are his former students, because he said they
violated an agreement made years ago by Coptic scholars that new
discoveries should be made accessible to all qualified scholars.

The manuscript will ultimately be returned to Egypt, where it was
discovered, and housed in the Coptic Museum in Cairo.

Ted Waitt, the founder and former chief executive of Gateway, said
that his foundation, the Waitt Institute for Historical Discovery,
gave the National Geographic Society a grant of more than $1 million
to restore and preserve the manuscript and make it available to the
public.

” I didn’t know a whole lot until I got into this about the early
days of Christianity. It was just extremely fascinating to me,” Mr.
Waitt said in a telephone interview. He said he had no motivation
other than being fascinated by the finding. He said that after the
document was carbon dated and the ink tested, procedures his
foundation paid for, he had no question about its authenticity. “You
can potentially question the translation and the interpretation, he
said, but you can’t fake something like this. It would be impossible.”



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From: “Paul Brookshaw” <jiggy9@hotmail.co.uk>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] The list.Preston, all. My Prayers for you.
Date: April 10, 2006 at 4:24:31 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Ok little Preston,
You got me cracked up mate and rolling on the floor lolol
I only call you small as a term of endearment though my friend lol
You make me cry also bro cos, just you know. lolol
Unsane or insane. Your question bro.
Get up in the morning, put on your favorite disguise.
Make sure you where your Sunglasses, so no one sees your eyes.
Eat well sleep well, have fun. I forgive you. That’s what matters. I only pray others can. 🙂
They will. Time is a good healer.
How is the Guitar playing coming along then. I tried to learn that damn thing for nearly six years only got cramp and sore fingers. oh plus blisters.
Used to play the Trumpet and Cornet before my habit stole all my teeth lolol
I just read your reply to my mail and, bless you bro you grounded me. lolol
Welcome home to the King and Queen. Myself and my wife have been staying a long weekend in the local Country Club.
You got the idea mate. Sauna Jacuzzi, pool, sunbeds. I tell you this you really don’t want to take Iboga in the winter, lolol better off in Bora Bora lolol
I off for a steam bath in a bout to hours then a massage. Hey bro, food and warmth deffinetley beats SCAG, any day. Plus it is cheaper.
I only niggle you for the baccy cos it will kill you.
Ok I hear you say you are no stranger to pain, but it ain’t no nice way to die.
That is why I hassle you so. OK
Drowning in your own Sputtum and Vomit and blood. No air. I think I would tear my throat out. I know why I started, my problem was I could not stop.lolol
I am extremely Glad and happy for today that I gave up when I did. The food is amazing. The taste is like jewelry in my mind. That was why I stopped smoking. To make the most of the Iboga. I am only sorry I did not drop the Benzos first, as my head has been in the eye of a Hurricane for many months now.
One point of note to any one reading this and considering taking Iboga. Opiates OK your choice. It is all your choice at the end of the day.
My experience is that.
Benzos should be dropped before Iboga as the withdrawal of the said is one hell of a bitch to try and control. It teaches you pure mind control though. That is for sure. lolol
I haven’t been able to drop the Benzos From 150mg 8 months ago untill 1.2mg three days back.
Ripped but able to now control my body with exercise.
Benzos suck they are no bodies friend. It ain’t really what they do to your head, they mash your body without you even realising. They crush your Spirit.
And like Meth, they stop your bodies ability to simulate, Mentally, physically and ultimately Spiritually.
So for the likes of Ron. Who maybe reads the posts. Drop the Benzos fist. I done it before and didn’t really notice them, cos I was slugging to much Meth. The Meth and Opiates in general are easier to beat than Valium.
I had the help of Iboga and I can tell you I did it the wrong way round. Never mind home safe and sound now lolol
Wow that was some Storm lolol
Comprende’

The Sunbed helps to get your body functioning, but because you drop the Benzos, you take off. ZAP.
Everything reversed.
Addicts NEED Sunlight, water and food. Lots of and if possible all the time.
We took and take so much crap, mental physical and so blinding our Spirits, that we don’t even get a chance in one life time. To stop and see who we really are.
I told a good friend of my concept that we where all just Monkeys without tales. And if we had the chance we would hang upside down in the trees all day and eat fruit and make love.
He said he didn’t believe that, but still believed in |God. That confused me, cos he, as a Christian should have known that the Book of GENESIS is about creation of the Animals in the Kingdom and that MAn was one of them, set apart, too to stand in a different hierarchy. Given rule over all the animals of the earth and allowed to partake of all the good fruits of the field.
This is what we cannot see as addicts. Are impulse to just switch off is greater than our natural creativity. So we lose contact with are primeval self. Man is an Animal. The such as like the monkey cos he enjoys being lazy Humours himself. Eats lot and gets Horny. Without the drugs you get a much better kick out of life. Plus also you get the freedom to be you, and not a slave to the System. Whoever you like to be as long as you are clean.
True and have respect.
At the Country Club we stayed at this weekend. I was dressed in tatty clothes and my torn leather jacket and I still got respect from everyone. I guess they thought maybe I was a bit eccentric, eating in the restaraunt, a chicken with my fingers.
I did notice the people who smoked didn’t have so much gaiety. Where not so happy.
Three three course dinners and lots of fussing yourself gets you back in your body.
So my prayer for the list this day is:

Father, our Creator, I pray that you give unto us this day all that we may require in strength and Honour so that we can learn who are enemies are and give us the Power to overcome them . Now and forevermore. Amen!

Bless you all for the Spiritual Sand paper. Drop the Drugs now and carry through and unto Glory. lolol
Bliss beyond FEAR:)
Have good day people, be good now.
Bless you all Paul:)’

_________________________________________________________________
Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today – it’s FREE! http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/

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From: “Paul Brookshaw” <jiggy9@hotmail.co.uk>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] this list is messed up!
Date: April 10, 2006 at 4:48:10 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Keep it simple people. we got enough trouble trying to breath lolol
Let alone swim through concrete lolol
Bless you all Paul :)’

From: “pascall roland” <pascal-roland@hotmail.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] this list is messed up!
Date: Tue, 04 Apr 2006 05:50:29 +0000

me too!

Callie, everytime you include keywords like Iran, etc… – like me now – yr big brother organisations overthere filter the correspondences.

but the send-receive delay should be related too a technical reason.

P.R.

From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] this list is messed up!
Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2006 14:34:06 EDT

I have been getting some messages from postmaster saying messages delayed
and/or undeliverable. Anyone else having this problem?
Some of the posts I am not getting. I read the replies you folks are  writing
but did not receive original message.
Callie

_________________________________________________________________
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From: “Paul Brookshaw” <jiggy9@hotmail.co.uk>
Subject: [Ibogaine] Fwd: Back to Danna’ Scrolls Roll. Paper, Rock or Gold.
Date: April 10, 2006 at 3:05:16 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Sorry people,
But this is all just a load of Garbage.
I say this cos, all of the work done here goes no where. Why spend the whole of your time trying to understand something that in the end would and is totally ungraspable. If the said scrolls are authentic, then they are just another story of someone-else’s interpretation of what they saw at the time. What does it matter if, the Pygmies used Iboga or any other kind of plant or Shroom so that they could play Physiological and Spiritual Ping Pong.
Sorry people you get bogged down in all that Archaeology and you are going to get one to a million different stories. It is just called the Philosopher’s Song. Poets wrote Sonnets and the so called Men of Wisdom wrote.
But at the end of the day they are just stories. Just like the bible or any other religious tract.
The truth of the matter should be,. The way you conduct your life and how you relate to other People. All this time and effort is a complete waste.
Danna, why don’t you put all of this energy you seem to have to work for the good of people instead of trying to make yourself seem important to everyone.
Eye seeing and Men pleasing is just a crutch to hold onto out of insecurity.
Get a life and get your head straight mate.
If you really want to know about life, live it instead of studying it. All this study is just like Warfare. Where does it get you.
I suppose it makes you feel important, but the importance of being is what you should be exploring. You have the wrong keys mate.
You are out balanced by, Jnana. Knowledge, when the true path to enlightenment stand in Samadhi, Union of the Six Paths. We would as individuals never be able to attain all of these paths in one hit,(one mortal life) but, Mate you got to take stock.
You have forgotten about the now and listening to let your body talk to you. You only seem to want to Dazzle People with Knowledge, that does not make you clever, cos, at the end of the day what can you use all that crap for. You can’t eat it and you can’t take it with you when you die.
OK it makes for interesting reading, but what are you supposed to be doing with your life? Why did you take Iboga if you only wanted to get a head full of stories.
You lost the original reason why God the Creator places all the herbs on this Rock. So that Man could experience another state of consciousness other than what he perceived as being boring old reality. Possibly the reason why God Created Man. So that He, they, could experience something other than themselves. MultiFaceted, must be quite a strain to live with for all eternity lolol.
Danna, I only write out of a pure conscience to try and get you to stop the internal struggle you seem to be living with.
You have great Jnana, but you have forgotten about the rest of the paths that one must encounter so a to remain complete and well balanced.
Numbers. Why don’t you try learning to stick with, 1,3,4,6,7,8,9, and the Glory of Twelve. Keep it simple. You have a lot of 1s. Ego, and one hell of a lot of fives:) Arrogant Pride!!!
Some of the 4 in you gets your daily tasks done, but where is your 6, 7, 8, 9 and of cause 12.
You profess one Hell of a lot and whinge and wine deeply.
You need to get back to your Roots Danna. Get back to who you really are and not what you think you may want to be.
Your thought is lost in vain imaginings. Quite enjoyable know doubt for your EGO, but where is your brotherly love compassion and of cause Charity. For Charity my friend carries no Chain, but you seem to carry many, plus balls of Iron. Why do you bog yourself down with things that you will never get the answers for. When you should be looking inside of your own self for the answers not getting stuck in the rubbish of Man’s Stupid Mind.
Scientist only make money out of being able to work out complex solutions to simple problems.
Blow the world to pieces and leave Man here without the 20th Century succor and you will just be left with the MAN. Hunter gatherer by Nature and only needs to fight to protect his family. The world is supposed to be your family mate. How come you keep fighting it?
Many Great Civilizations have totally self destructed because of toooooooooo much input. Take the GATHS for instants. They where so proud that they5 couldn’t even make love properly. lolol
The Egyptians used Deception to get the job done and the Babylonians definitely Smashed the world as we now know it into its present form and chaos of destruction. Time, Money, Slavery(Deceptions) Cats, female, looking in two directions at the same time.
Please, I pray come out of the dark place you are in and only look to yourself. Self love is not selfish. It only took me 43 years to learn that one lolol
I ain’t no great scholar, but nearly 4 years at LEEDS UNIVERSITY studying, Math, Chemistry, Physics, Biology and Socialology at a Higher National Degree, taught me shit. (Got me in a few crazy Labs and well Mirrored:, but;) Nothing that I could eat drink or use to survive if all this crap comes down tomorrow. Other than my Gut instinct and slef taught skills.
You have totally hit number one with your bullet, bro, but totally missed the Mark:)~~~’
Bosha’ you lost it in knowledge.
I give to you and pray you sit upon your creator the gifts of the Yogi. Who sort after self enlightenment through discipline and Obedience, and also pray that you learn to channel your energies in ways more constructive than just getting a big head and a proud Heart.
You have asked out of your pain for a long long time for someone to tell you where you are going wrong, but out of your own fear you are misguiding yourself.
Pray sit, forget about Knowledge for the sake of knowledge and see and hear, taste and breath, feel and love  cry and laugh and sing and Pray. Cast down your pride and Anger. Learn to forgive yourself.
Question? Do you Smoke Tobbacco? As you seem to have the Spirit of the Deceiver within you.
Just be MAN. PEACE and of cause love shall conquer all your fears.
As guidance you should be looking at your self as the whole MAN, and not trying to edify yourself in the eyes of your fellow MAN, for this is Vanity. Warfare again for the sake of Warfare.
Why do you always want to be the CONTROL FREAK. IS THIS A CAREER THING WITH YOU OR IS IT JUST YOUR WAY OF TRYING TO HIDE YOUR OWN INSECURITIES???
You are as BAD and TERRIBLE as little Preston.
(OK Judge and be Judged. I Judge you Preston, cos you lied and tryed to hurt people who tryed to help you by tearing down a gift given freely. Sow the Seeds and Reap the Harvest. You can judge me, if you like. I am only a simple Man. Once misguided. I am clean, now).
Scurrying around like a headless ANT. Trying to gather grains of Sugar before the Sun comes out completely and melts them. What you seek has no form, no metal no Power. And so no light. GOT IT!!! STOP. BE STILL. LISTEN. SIT THE MONKEY IN YOU HEAD DOWN AND JUST BE!!! Shalom.’ Tell him to put all his toys away in the proper place and teach him to play with only one toy at a time. Then you will be able to use your energies, positively for your own edification and not the Pomp you seem to seek.
Pray remember WORRY FOR THE SAKE OF WORRY IS A SIN. TALLY FOR THE SAKE OF TALLY IS A WASTE OF TIME. WARFARE????? COME ON DANNA GET IT SORTED MATE. PEOPLE LOOK TO YOU FOR GUIDANCE AND YOU BOGGLE THIER MINDS.
NO WONDER THEY MADE IBOGA ILLIGAL IN THE USA.                                  ;)’
ARN’T THERE ENOUGH EGOTISTICAL MEGLOMAINIACS IN THIS WORLD WITHOUT YOU ADDING TO THE CHAOS?
Look my friend.
A Gift, CONCEPTION, Given not taken, but received Freely  as a child. Never lost only blinded.

WEAVE AND WOVE, TUCK AND ROLL, CAST AND HAUL, WINNOW AND GLEAN. TOOLS!!!
TURN AND LAY THE OTHER WAY DANNA BEAL, TURN AND LAY. WRAP AND WHIP. TUCK AND SPLICE. GRAFT. And grow. Sow and Reap. You have forgotten Grace my friend.
Sunday dinner is to dry without the sweet savour of Gravy. It is like trying to eat the Dead butts in the ash tray, with no water, way too dry.

Rile for the sake of Rile.
You are like a foolish Young Lion with a Thorn in your Paw, Sorry and Sore, but all you may do is lick your Pad.
For you do not have any Tweezers for to remove the Thorn. So many Tools you do not know what to use.
You have Sorely Treated yourself my Friend. I laugh. Ah! you make me cry my friend. Why do you Tarry So??? Pray tell.?
Why?
You can’t have it all mate it ain’t yours to give and it ain’t yours to have.
Why would anyone, in one mortal life, seek such immense Knowledge of the Kingdom Other than God.
You are a Man DANNA not a god.
There is and was only room for one ever. We are but humble servants of the King.
You lost the plot mate. For sure!!!

Oh Foolish Notions of Grandeur!

One said Truth is.

To be Or not !!!         Your question mate not mine!!!
Yashawe’ I go to pray as the Sun has Risen.
Blessings be with you and yours this day. And Pray my friend Pray.
Shalom Paul;)’
Ah DAnna, You brake my Heart Man.~’

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From: “Billy J” <billjohnson6@sympatico.ca>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Fwd: Gospel of Judas (looking for Intelligent Life?)
Date: April 9, 2006 at 10:41:25 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Well Well Well, I could have been in the deepest dirtiest rottenest, most degrading places, and or in the most expensive and Snotty nosed uppercrusty places, Yet Even When I Was Much Younger and well quite a bit Dumber than I am now,
But I did not think me a genius to look around me and figure out that the moon and the stars, the sun , the trees, plants animals– and let us not forget the supposingly most intelligent HUMANS–
Did not just happen out of some bang, and I really didn’t fall for that My Great great gandpa was a monkey, I felt something was around, a power a wisdom or something.

POINT HERE IS YOU PEOPLE (BESIDES US BEING DRUGGIES???) ARE HIGHLY INTELLIGENT– YES,   JUDAS ISCARIOT WAS A REAL PERSON – HE DID BETRAY JESUS U HA AND DA THE ROMANS DID NOT WANT / NOR DID ANY OF THE ONES THAT PARTAKED OF JESUS’S DEATH, ANYONE TO BELIEVE WHAT REALLY HAPPENED-   uH IT IS NO DIFFERANT THAN TODAY– POLITICS ANYONE- HAVE YOU SEEN OR READ THE GOSPEL ENQIURER , YOU KNOW THAT MAGAZINE THAT SPREADS ALL THE TRUTHS ABOUT FAMOUS PEOPLE — HAY HOW ABOUT YOUR DART BOARD GEORGE BUSH?
COME ON NOW I AM MESSED UP TOO AND WE ALL COULD USE ANOTHER OPPORTUNITY TO SAY WE HAVE BEEN ANGELIC AND IT WOULD BE REAL NICE NOT TO HAVE ANY CONVICTIONS OR ANY (FORGIVE ME) “SINS” in our past.  SORRY
The gospel of judas is REALLY written, BUT by Who– One of You Could Have Written one Just a Damning couldn’t you?
Oops I may have Sinned, and Oh No You wil now Judge Me!!! Yes?

I Love You Too

Billy

P.S. Where is Allan?

—-Original Message Follows—-
From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Fwd: Gospel of Judas
Date: Sun, 9 Apr 2006 05:53:20 -0400
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“an obvious end-times deception” is how an in-law put his reaction to my sending him a link about this Gospel of Judas.
Egad.
Fundamentalist christians preaching “god this, god that, jesus this, jesus that,” scare me as much as the Taliban ever would.
—–
“If God dropped acid, would he see people?”  ~Steven Wright

Peace, love and lotsof respect.
Preston Peet
ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor Underground- the Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations, Astonishing Archaeology and Hidden History
Editor Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Columnist HighTimes mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —– From: Dana Beal
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Saturday, April 08, 2006 4:23 PM
Subject: [Ibogaine] Fwd: Gospel of Judas

New gnostic gospel supports passover plot account, thereby buttressing the role of Grail contents with neuro-protective properties as a forensic explanation of what happened in the crucifixion and resurrection.

I now believe that ibogaine may actually have been one of the ingredients in the Grail mixture– because it makes the body? totally numb and able to take being pierced without pain or flinching, and because it’s been patented for ischemia, which is a kind of global stroke effect brought on during Crucifixion by gradual suffocation caused by the windpipe being cut off when the crucified would lean forward trying to rest. Other ingredients would have been some harmaline and possibly cannabis, but not ephedra, which would be unnecessary with the iboga.

If Egyptian mummies have been found with traces of cocaine and nicotine (from the Americas), they couldn’t have had that much trouble getting a bit of root-bark from the sub-Sahara. Iboga originates with the Pygmy, who supposedly had it before anyone else. Somewhere I heard or read?(and maybe some one on the list can provide the citation.)?that the Pygmy first had it in the Rift Valley, 20,000 years ago.?

So the theory is that harmaline was involved in the initiation of the Persian Shah, iboga in the ordination of the Pharaoh. Christ claimed the mantel of both, of course.

Dana/cnw?

Begin forwarded message:

From: “William T. Brennan” <wtb208@stern.nyu.edu>
Date: April 6, 2006 10:40:49 PM EDT
To: dana@phantom.com
Subject: Gospel of Judas

Hi Dana,

I hope all’s been well this week.

You may have heard by now, but the Gospel of Judas has recently surfaced.? I’ve copied the NYT story below and have attached a translation of the gospel.? The unquestionably gnostic thread running through it seems like it’s right up your alley. ?

Predictably, I’ve combed through it looking for potential mushroom references that line up with other more obvious gnostic mushroom references (Heinrich, 2002) and feel like I’ve found a few.? Here they are with some notes:

?Often he did not appear to his disciples as himself, but he was found among them as a child.?

I would love to find out what Greek term was used for ?child,? and to get into its etymology.? I?m pretty sure that it?s in Greek mythology (note that this gospel was originally written in Greek) that mushrooms are often referred to in childish terms (e.g., the ?little ones?).? This line is especially suspect since the rest of the passage makes no reference to Jesus as a child.

One day he was with his disciples in Judea, and he found them gathered together and seated in pious observance. When he [approached] his disciples, [34] gathered >>together and seated and offering a prayer of thanksgiving over the bread, [he] laughed.
The disciples said to [him], ?Master, why are you laughing at [our] prayer of
thanksgiving? We have done what is right.?
He answered and said to them, ?I am not laughing at you. <You> are not doing this because of your own will but because it is through this that your god [will be] praised.?
They said, ?Master, you are [?] the son of our god.?
Jesus said to them, ?How do you know me? Truly [I] say to you, no generation of the people that are among you will know me.?

?When Jesus observed their lack of [understanding, he said] to them, ?Why has this agitation led you to anger? Your god who is within you and [?]?

?Knowing that Judas was reflecting upon something that was exalted, Jesus said to him,
?Step away from the others and I shall tell you the mysteries of the kingdom.?

Jesus seems to be mocking their ?bread eating? ritual by noting that it?s putting them in touch with a different god.? Judas, on the other hand, gets favored and enters into ?conversation? with Jesus because only he rightfully identifies him.? As you know, different species of Amanitas look pretty similar, and even when you find the right (psychoactive) one, they?re notoriously hard to get a psychedelic trip out of.? Maybe this difficulty is what?s contributing to their ?praising of another god.?

?A great angel, the enlightened divine Self-Generated, emerged from the cloud.?

Self-generated?? From the cloud?? Self-generation is unavoidable for a Creator god, but this ?great angel? was brought into being by a greater power.? Why would the text run the risk of coming across as self-contradictory by dubbing him/her/it ?self-created??? This odd, quasi-incorrect description of the angel sounds like a traditional mythic mushroom reference to me (i.e., no visible seed, springing up in the wake of clouds).

I’m skeptical myself, but it’s worth thinking about.? In other news, the postering is going really well on Long Island, and I’ll be getting started on the NYU campus area soon as well (assuming no one else has hit it yet).? I’ve got some more things to talk about, both related to the march and the Ibogaine book, so I’ll talk to you soon. ?

-Bill

Here’s the NYT story:

April 6, 2006
‘Gospel of Judas’ Surfaces After 1,700 Years
By JOHN NOBLE WILFORD and LAURIE GOODSTEIN

An early Christian manuscript, including the only known text of what?
is known as the Gospel of Judas, has surfaced after 1,700 years. The?
text gives new insights into the relationship of Jesus and the?
disciple who betrayed him, scholars reported today. In this version,?
Jesus asked Judas, as a close friend, to sell him out to the?
authorities, telling Judas he will “exceed” the other disciples by?
doing so.

Though some theologians have hypothesized this, scholars who have?
studied the new-found text said, this is the first time an ancient?
document defends the idea.

The discovery in the desert of Egypt of the leather-bound papyrus?
manuscript, and now its translation, was announced by the National?
Geographic Society at a news conference in Washington. The 26-page?
Judas text is said to be a copy in Coptic, made around A. D. 300, of?
the original Gospel of Judas, written in Greek the century before.

Terry Garcia, an executive vice president of the geographic society,?
said the manuscript, or codex, is considered by scholars and?
scientists to be the most significant ancient, nonbiblical text to be?
found in the past 60 years.

“The codex has been authenticated as a genuine work of ancient?
Christian apocryphal literature,” Mr. Garcia said, citing extensive?
tests of radiocarbon dating, ink analysis and multispectral imaging?
and studies of the script and linguistic style. The ink, for example,?
was consistent with ink of that era, and there was no evidence of?
multiple rewriting.

“This is absolutely typical of ancient Coptic manuscripts,” said?
Stephen Emmel, professor of Coptic studies at the University of?
Munster in Germany. “I am completely convinced.”

The most revealing passages in the Judas manuscript begins, “The?
secret account of the revelation that Jesus spoke in conversation?
with Judas Iscariot during a week, three days before he celebrated?
Passover.”

The account goes on to relate that Jesus refers to the other?
disciples, telling Judas “you will exceed all of them. For you will?
sacrifice the man that clothes me.” By that, scholars familiar with?
Gnostic thinking said, Jesus meant that by helping him get rid of his?
physical flesh, Judas will act to liberate the true spiritual self or?
divine being within Jesus.

Unlike the accounts in the New Testament Gospels of Matthew, Mark,?
Luke and John, the anonymous author of the Gospel of Judas believed?
that Judas Iscariot alone among the 12 disciples understood the?
meaning of Jesus’ teachings and acceded to his will. In the diversity?
of early Christian thought, a group known as Gnostics believed in a?
secret knowledge of how people could escape the prisons of their?
material bodies and return to the spiritual realm from which they came.

Elaine Pagels, a professor of religion at Princeton who specializes?
in studies of the Gnostics, said in a statement, “These discoveries?
are exploding the myth of a monolithic religion, and demonstrating?
how diverse ? and fascinating ? the early Christian movement really?
was.”

The Gospel of Judas is only one of many texts discovered in the last?
65 years, including the gospels of Thomas, Mary Magdalene and Philip,?
believed to be written by Gnostics.

The Gnostics’ beliefs were often viewed by bishops and early church?
leaders as unorthodox, and they were frequently denounced as?
heretics. The discoveries of Gnostic texts have shaken up Biblical?
scholarship by revealing the diversity of beliefs and practices among?
early followers of Jesus.

As the findings have trickled down to churches and universities, they?
have produced a new generation of Christians who now regard the Bible?
not as the literal word of God, but as a product of historical and?
political forces that determined which texts should be included in?
the canon, and which edited out.

For that reason, the discoveries have proved deeply troubling for?
many believers. The Gospel of Judas portrays Judas Iscariot not as a?
betrayer of Jesus, but as his most favored disciple and willing?
collaborator.

Scholars say that they have long been on the lookout for the Gospel?
of Judas because of a reference to what was probably an early version?
of it in a text called Against Heresies, written by Irenaeus, the?
bishop of Lyons, about the year 180.

Irenaeus was a hunter of heretics, and no friend of the Gnostics. He?
wrote, “They produce a fictitious history of this kind, which they?
style the Gospel of Judas.”

Karen L. King, a professor of the history of early Christianity at?
Harvard Divinity School, and an expert in Gnosticism who has not yet?
read the manuscript released today, said that the Gospel of Judas may?
well reflect the kinds of debates that arose in the second and third?
century among Christians.

“You can see how early Christians could say, if Jesus’s death was all?
part of God’s plan, then Judas’s betrayal was part of God’s plan,”?
said Ms. King, the author of several books on the Gospel of Mary. “So?
what does that make Judas? Is he the betrayer, or the facilitator of?
salvation, the guy who makes the crucifixion possible?”

At least one scholar said the new manuscript does not contain?
anything dramatic that would change or undermine traditional?
understanding of the Bible. James M. Robinson, a retired professor of?
Coptic studies at Claremont Graduate University, was the general?
editor of the English edition of the Nag Hammadi library, a?
collection of Gnostic documents discovered in Egypt in 1945.

“Correctly understood, there’s nothing undermining about the Gospel?
of Judas,” Mr. Robinson said in a telephone interview. He said that?
the New Testament gospels of John and Mark both contain passages that?
suggest that Jesus not only picked Judas to betray him, but actually?
encouraged Judas to hand him over to those he knew would crucify him.

Mr. Robinson’s book, “The Secrets of Judas: The Story of the?
Misunderstood Disciple and his Lost Gospel” (Harper San Francisco,?
April 2006), predicts the contents of the Gospel of Judas based on?
his knowledge of Gnostic and Coptic texts, even though he was not?
part of the team of researchers working on the document.

The Egyptian copy of the gospel was written on 13 sheets of papyrus,?
both front and back, and found in a multitude of brittle fragments.

Rudolphe Kasser, a Swiss scholar of Coptic studies, directed the team?
that reconstructed and translated the script. The effort, organized?
by the National Geographic, was supported by Maecenas Foundation for?
Ancient Art, in Basel, Switzerland, and the Waitt Institute for?
Historical Discovery, an American nonprofit organization for the?
application of technology in historical and scientific projects.

The entire 66-page codex also contains a text titled James (also?
known as First Apocalypse of James), a letter by Peter and a text of?
what scholars are provisionally calling Book of Allogenes.

Discovered in the 1970’s in a cavern near El Minya, Egypt, the?
document circulated for years among antiquities dealers in Egypt,?
then Europe and finally in the United States. It moldered in a safe-
deposit box at a bank in Hicksville, N. Y., for 16 years before being?
bought in 2000 by a Zurich dealer, Frieda Nussberger-Tchacos. The?
manuscript was given the name Codex Tchacos.

When attempts to resell the codex failed, Ms. Nussberger-Tchacos?
turned it over to the Maecenas Foundation for conservation and?
translation.

Mr. Robinson said that an Egyptian antiquities dealer offered to sell?
him the document in 1983 for $3 million, but that he could not raise?
the money. He criticized the scholars now associated with the?
project, some of whom are his former students, because he said they?
violated an agreement made years ago by Coptic scholars that new?
discoveries should be made accessible to all qualified scholars.

The manuscript will ultimately be returned to Egypt, where it was?
discovered, and housed in the Coptic Museum in Cairo.

Ted Waitt, the founder and former chief executive of Gateway, said?
that his foundation, the Waitt Institute for Historical Discovery,?
gave the National Geographic Society a grant of more than $1 million?
to restore and preserve the manuscript and make it available to the?
public.

” I didn’t know a whole lot until I got into this about the early?
days of Christianity. It was just extremely fascinating to me,” Mr.?
Waitt said in a telephone interview. He said he had no motivation?
other than being fascinated by the finding. He said that after the?
document was carbon dated and the ink tested, procedures his?
foundation paid for, he had no question about its authenticity. “You?
can potentially question the translation and the interpretation, he?
said, but you can’t fake something like this. It would be impossible.”

New gnostic gospel supports passover plot account, thereby
buttressing the role of Grail contents with neuro-protective
properties as a forensic explanation of what happened in the
crucifixion and resurrection.

I now believe that ibogaine may actually have been one of the
ingredients in the Grail mixture– because it makes the body  totally
numb and able to take being pierced without pain or flinching, and
because it’s been patented for ischemia, which is a kind of global
stroke effect brought on during Crucifixion by gradual suffocation
caused by the windpipe being cut off when the crucified would lean
forward trying to rest. Other ingredients would have been some
harmaline and possibly cannabis, but not ephedra, which would be
unnecessary with the iboga.

If Egyptian mummies have been found with traces of cocaine and
nicotine (from the Americas), they couldn’t have had that much
trouble getting a bit of root-bark from the sub-Sahara. Iboga
originates with the Pygmy, who supposedly had it before anyone else.
Somewhere I heard or read (and maybe some one on the list can provide
the citation.) that the Pygmy first had it in the Rift Valley, 20,000
years ago.

So the theory is that harmaline was involved in the initiation of the
Persian Shah, iboga in the ordination of the Pharaoh. Christ claimed
the mantel of both, of course.

Dana/cnw

Begin forwarded message:

From: “William T. Brennan” <wtb208@stern.nyu.edu>
Date: April 6, 2006 10:40:49 PM EDT
To: dana@phantom.com
Subject: Gospel of Judas

Hi Dana,

I hope all’s been well this week.

You may have heard by now, but the Gospel of Judas has recently
surfaced.  I’ve copied the NYT story below and have attached a
translation of the gospel.  The unquestionably gnostic thread
running through it seems like it’s right up your alley.

Predictably, I’ve combed through it looking for potential mushroom
references that line up with other more obvious gnostic mushroom
references (Heinrich, 2002) and feel like I’ve found a few.  Here
they are with some notes:

“Often he did not appear to his disciples as himself, but he was
found among them as a child.”

I would love to find out what Greek term was used for “child,”
and to get into its etymology.  I’m pretty sure that it’s in
Greek mythology (note that this gospel was originally written in
Greek) that mushrooms are often referred to in childish terms
(e.g., the “little ones”).  This line is especially suspect
since the rest of the passage makes no reference to Jesus as a child.

One day he was with his disciples in Judea, and he found them
gathered together and seated in pious observance. When he
[approached] his disciples, [34] gathered >>together and seated
and offering a prayer of thanksgiving over the bread, [he] laughed.
The disciples said to [him], “Master, why are you laughing at
[our] prayer of
thanksgiving? We have done what is right.”
He answered and said to them, “I am not laughing at you. <You>
are not doing this because of your own will but because it is
through this that your god [will be] praised.”
They said, “Master, you are […] the son of our god.”
Jesus said to them, “How do you know me? Truly [I] say to you,
no generation of the people that are among you will know me.”

“When Jesus observed their lack of [understanding, he said] to
them, “Why has this agitation led you to anger? Your god who is
within you and […]”

“Knowing that Judas was reflecting upon something that was
exalted, Jesus said to him,
“Step away from the others and I shall tell you the mysteries of
the kingdom.”

Jesus seems to be mocking their “bread eating” ritual by noting
that it’s putting them in touch with a different god.  Judas, on
the other hand, gets favored and enters into “conversation” with
Jesus because only he rightfully identifies him.  As you know,
different species of Amanitas look pretty similar, and even when
you find the right (psychoactive) one, they’re notoriously hard to
get a psychedelic trip out of.  Maybe this difficulty is what’s
contributing to their “praising of another god.”

“A great angel, the enlightened divine Self-Generated, emerged
from the cloud.”

Self-generated?  From the cloud?  Self-generation is unavoidable
for a Creator god, but this “great angel” was brought into being
by a greater power.  Why would the text run the risk of coming
across as self-contradictory by dubbing him/her/it “self-
created?”  This odd, quasi-incorrect description of the angel
sounds like a traditional mythic mushroom reference to me (i.e., no
visible seed, springing up in the wake of clouds).

I’m skeptical myself, but it’s worth thinking about.  In other
news, the postering is going really well on Long Island, and I’ll
be getting started on the NYU campus area soon as well (assuming no
one else has hit it yet).  I’ve got some more things to talk about,
both related to the march and the Ibogaine book, so I’ll talk to
you soon.

-Bill

Here’s the NYT story:

April 6, 2006
‘Gospel of Judas’ Surfaces After 1,700 Years
By JOHN NOBLE WILFORD and LAURIE GOODSTEIN

An early Christian manuscript, including the only known text of what
is known as the Gospel of Judas, has surfaced after 1,700 years. The
text gives new insights into the relationship of Jesus and the
disciple who betrayed him, scholars reported today. In this version,
Jesus asked Judas, as a close friend, to sell him out to the
authorities, telling Judas he will “exceed” the other disciples by
doing so.

Though some theologians have hypothesized this, scholars who have
studied the new-found text said, this is the first time an ancient
document defends the idea.

The discovery in the desert of Egypt of the leather-bound papyrus
manuscript, and now its translation, was announced by the National
Geographic Society at a news conference in Washington. The 26-page
Judas text is said to be a copy in Coptic, made around A. D. 300, of
the original Gospel of Judas, written in Greek the century before.

Terry Garcia, an executive vice president of the geographic society,
said the manuscript, or codex, is considered by scholars and
scientists to be the most significant ancient, nonbiblical text to be
found in the past 60 years.

“The codex has been authenticated as a genuine work of ancient
Christian apocryphal literature,” Mr. Garcia said, citing extensive
tests of radiocarbon dating, ink analysis and multispectral imaging
and studies of the script and linguistic style. The ink, for example,
was consistent with ink of that era, and there was no evidence of
multiple rewriting.

“This is absolutely typical of ancient Coptic manuscripts,” said
Stephen Emmel, professor of Coptic studies at the University of
Munster in Germany. “I am completely convinced.”

The most revealing passages in the Judas manuscript begins, “The
secret account of the revelation that Jesus spoke in conversation
with Judas Iscariot during a week, three days before he celebrated
Passover.”

The account goes on to relate that Jesus refers to the other
disciples, telling Judas “you will exceed all of them. For you will
sacrifice the man that clothes me.” By that, scholars familiar with
Gnostic thinking said, Jesus meant that by helping him get rid of his
physical flesh, Judas will act to liberate the true spiritual self or
divine being within Jesus.

Unlike the accounts in the New Testament Gospels of Matthew, Mark,
Luke and John, the anonymous author of the Gospel of Judas believed
that Judas Iscariot alone among the 12 disciples understood the
meaning of Jesus’ teachings and acceded to his will. In the diversity
of early Christian thought, a group known as Gnostics believed in a
secret knowledge of how people could escape the prisons of their
material bodies and return to the spiritual realm from which they
came.

Elaine Pagels, a professor of religion at Princeton who specializes
in studies of the Gnostics, said in a statement, “These discoveries
are exploding the myth of a monolithic religion, and demonstrating
how diverse — and fascinating — the early Christian movement
really
was.”

The Gospel of Judas is only one of many texts discovered in the last
65 years, including the gospels of Thomas, Mary Magdalene and Philip,
believed to be written by Gnostics.

The Gnostics’ beliefs were often viewed by bishops and early church
leaders as unorthodox, and they were frequently denounced as
heretics. The discoveries of Gnostic texts have shaken up Biblical
scholarship by revealing the diversity of beliefs and practices among
early followers of Jesus.

As the findings have trickled down to churches and universities, they
have produced a new generation of Christians who now regard the Bible
not as the literal word of God, but as a product of historical and
political forces that determined which texts should be included in
the canon, and which edited out.

For that reason, the discoveries have proved deeply troubling for
many believers. The Gospel of Judas portrays Judas Iscariot not as a
betrayer of Jesus, but as his most favored disciple and willing
collaborator.

Scholars say that they have long been on the lookout for the Gospel
of Judas because of a reference to what was probably an early version
of it in a text called Against Heresies, written by Irenaeus, the
bishop of Lyons, about the year 180.

Irenaeus was a hunter of heretics, and no friend of the Gnostics. He
wrote, “They produce a fictitious history of this kind, which they
style the Gospel of Judas.”

Karen L. King, a professor of the history of early Christianity at
Harvard Divinity School, and an expert in Gnosticism who has not yet
read the manuscript released today, said that the Gospel of Judas may
well reflect the kinds of debates that arose in the second and third
century among Christians.

“You can see how early Christians could say, if Jesus’s death was all
part of God’s plan, then Judas’s betrayal was part of God’s plan,”
said Ms. King, the author of several books on the Gospel of Mary. “So
what does that make Judas? Is he the betrayer, or the facilitator of
salvation, the guy who makes the crucifixion possible?”

At least one scholar said the new manuscript does not contain
anything dramatic that would change or undermine traditional
understanding of the Bible. James M. Robinson, a retired professor of
Coptic studies at Claremont Graduate University, was the general
editor of the English edition of the Nag Hammadi library, a
collection of Gnostic documents discovered in Egypt in 1945.

“Correctly understood, there’s nothing undermining about the Gospel
of Judas,” Mr. Robinson said in a telephone interview. He said that
the New Testament gospels of John and Mark both contain passages that
suggest that Jesus not only picked Judas to betray him, but actually
encouraged Judas to hand him over to those he knew would crucify him.

Mr. Robinson’s book, “The Secrets of Judas: The Story of the
Misunderstood Disciple and his Lost Gospel” (Harper San Francisco,
April 2006), predicts the contents of the Gospel of Judas based on
his knowledge of Gnostic and Coptic texts, even though he was not
part of the team of researchers working on the document.

The Egyptian copy of the gospel was written on 13 sheets of papyrus,
both front and back, and found in a multitude of brittle fragments.

Rudolphe Kasser, a Swiss scholar of Coptic studies, directed the team
that reconstructed and translated the script. The effort, organized
by the National Geographic, was supported by Maecenas Foundation for
Ancient Art, in Basel, Switzerland, and the Waitt Institute for
Historical Discovery, an American nonprofit organization for the
application of technology in historical and scientific projects.

The entire 66-page codex also contains a text titled James (also
known as First Apocalypse of James), a letter by Peter and a text of
what scholars are provisionally calling Book of Allogenes.

Discovered in the 1970’s in a cavern near El Minya, Egypt, the
document circulated for years among antiquities dealers in Egypt,
then Europe and finally in the United States. It moldered in a safe-
deposit box at a bank in Hicksville, N. Y., for 16 years before being
bought in 2000 by a Zurich dealer, Frieda Nussberger-Tchacos. The
manuscript was given the name Codex Tchacos.

When attempts to resell the codex failed, Ms. Nussberger-Tchacos
turned it over to the Maecenas Foundation for conservation and
translation.

Mr. Robinson said that an Egyptian antiquities dealer offered to sell
him the document in 1983 for $3 million, but that he could not raise
the money. He criticized the scholars now associated with the
project, some of whom are his former students, because he said they
violated an agreement made years ago by Coptic scholars that new
discoveries should be made accessible to all qualified scholars.

The manuscript will ultimately be returned to Egypt, where it was
discovered, and housed in the Coptic Museum in Cairo.

Ted Waitt, the founder and former chief executive of Gateway, said
that his foundation, the Waitt Institute for Historical Discovery,
gave the National Geographic Society a grant of more than $1 million
to restore and preserve the manuscript and make it available to the
public.

” I didn’t know a whole lot until I got into this about the early
days of Christianity. It was just extremely fascinating to me,” Mr.
Waitt said in a telephone interview. He said he had no motivation
other than being fascinated by the finding. He said that after the
document was carbon dated and the ink tested, procedures his
foundation paid for, he had no question about its authenticity. “You
can potentially question the translation and the interpretation, he
said, but you can’t fake something like this. It would be impossible.”

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: “Nick Sandberg” <nick227@tiscali.co.uk>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Fwd: Gospel of Judas
Date: April 9, 2006 at 4:50:01 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Dana,

This guy could find “mushroom references” in a “Cat in the Hat” book.

The whole Jesus story and the crucifixion have so many layers of meaning, drawn from so many strands of perennial mythology, that to be convinced it’s just a simple account of this bloke being nailed to some wood is to ignore much of the world’s spiritual history, in some ways no bad thing. However, you are subscribing to this most basic level of meaning and then trying to fiddle around with it to get ibogaine in there somewhere, or so it seems to me. I don’t especially see the point, as anyone sufficiently sussed to know what ibogaine is about is likely also going to know a lot of the other layers of symbolic meaning in the new testament – consciousness crucified on the cross of matter; a alchemical tale of bodily regeneration; a redemptive story of the ego vanquished; a figurate key to the process of manifestation; etc etc. To me, there’s not so much point in going down the road you do. Though in some ways exciting, I think it just attracts more and more people to associate ibogaine with religious craziness. If you need to bring Jesus in, why not focus more on the symbolic elements? At least then you would be associating like more with like. Just a suggestion.

Nick

—–Original Message—–
From: Dana Beal [mailto:dana@phantom.com]
Sent: 08 April 2006 21:24
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] Fwd: Gospel of Judas

New gnostic gospel supports passover plot account, thereby buttressing the role of Grail contents with neuro-protective properties as a forensic explanation of what happened in the crucifixion and resurrection.

I now believe that ibogaine may actually have been one of the ingredients in the Grail mixture– because it makes the body? totally numb and able to take being pierced without pain or flinching, and because it’s been patented for ischemia, which is a kind of global stroke effect brought on during Crucifixion by gradual suffocation caused by the windpipe being cut off when the crucified would lean forward trying to rest. Other ingredients would have been some harmaline and possibly cannabis, but not ephedra, which would be unnecessary with the iboga.

If Egyptian mummies have been found with traces of cocaine and nicotine (from the Americas), they couldn’t have had that much trouble getting a bit of root-bark from the sub-Sahara. Iboga originates with the Pygmy, who supposedly had it before anyone else. Somewhere I heard or read?(and maybe some one on the list can provide the citation.)?that the Pygmy first had it in the Rift Valley, 20,000 years ago.?

So the theory is that harmaline was involved in the initiation of the Persian Shah, iboga in the ordination of the Pharaoh. Christ claimed the mantel of both, of course.

Dana/cnw?

Begin forwarded message:
From: “William T. Brennan” <wtb208@stern.nyu.edu>
Date: April 6, 2006 10:40:49 PM EDT
To: dana@phantom.com
Subject: Gospel of Judas

Hi Dana,

I hope all’s been well this week.

You may have heard by now, but the Gospel of Judas has recently surfaced.? I’ve copied the NYT story below and have attached a translation of the gospel.? The unquestionably gnostic thread running through it seems like it’s right up your alley. ?

Predictably, I’ve combed through it looking for potential mushroom references that line up with other more obvious gnostic mushroom references (Heinrich, 2002) and feel like I’ve found a few.? Here they are with some notes:

?Often he did not appear to his disciples as himself, but he was found among them as a child.?

I would love to find out what Greek term was used for ?child,? and to get into its etymology.? I?m pretty sure that it?s in Greek mythology (note that this gospel was originally written in Greek) that mushrooms are often referred to in childish terms (e.g., the ?little ones?).? This line is especially suspect since the rest of the passage makes no reference to Jesus as a child.

One day he was with his disciples in Judea, and he found them gathered together and seated in pious observance. When he [approached] his disciples, [34] gathered >>together and seated and offering a prayer of thanksgiving over the bread, [he] laughed.
The disciples said to [him], ?Master, why are you laughing at [our] prayer of
thanksgiving? We have done what is right.?
He answered and said to them, ?I am not laughing at you. <You> are not doing this because of your own will but because it is through this that your god [will be] praised.?
They said, ?Master, you are [?] the son of our god.?
Jesus said to them, ?How do you know me? Truly [I] say to you, no generation of the people that are among you will know me.?

?When Jesus observed their lack of [understanding, he said] to them, ?Why has this agitation led you to anger? Your god who is within you and [?]?

?Knowing that Judas was reflecting upon something that was exalted, Jesus said to him,
?Step away from the others and I shall tell you the mysteries of the kingdom.?

Jesus seems to be mocking their ?bread eating? ritual by noting that it?s putting them in touch with a different god.? Judas, on the other hand, gets favored and enters into ?conversation? with Jesus because only he rightfully identifies him.? As you know, different species of Amanitas look pretty similar, and even when you find the right (psychoactive) one, they?re notoriously hard to get a psychedelic trip out of.? Maybe this difficulty is what?s contributing to their ?praising of another god.?

?A great angel, the enlightened divine Self-Generated, emerged from the cloud.?

Self-generated?? From the cloud?? Self-generation is unavoidable for a Creator god, but this ?great angel? was brought into being by a greater power.? Why would the text run the risk of coming across as self-contradictory by dubbing him/her/it ?self-created??? This odd, quasi-incorrect description of the angel sounds like a traditional mythic mushroom reference to me (i.e., no visible seed, springing up in the wake of clouds).

I’m skeptical myself, but it’s worth thinking about.? In other news, the postering is going really well on Long Island, and I’ll be getting started on the NYU campus area soon as well (assuming no one else has hit it yet).? I’ve got some more things to talk about, both related to the march and the Ibogaine book, so I’ll talk to you soon. ?

-Bill

Here’s the NYT story:

April 6, 2006
‘Gospel of Judas’ Surfaces After 1,700 Years
By JOHN NOBLE WILFORD and LAURIE GOODSTEIN

An early Christian manuscript, including the only known text of what?
is known as the Gospel of Judas, has surfaced after 1,700 years. The?
text gives new insights into the relationship of Jesus and the?
disciple who betrayed him, scholars reported today. In this version,?
Jesus asked Judas, as a close friend, to sell him out to the?
authorities, telling Judas he will “exceed” the other disciples by?
doing so.

Though some theologians have hypothesized this, scholars who have?
studied the new-found text said, this is the first time an ancient?
document defends the idea.

The discovery in the desert of Egypt of the leather-bound papyrus?
manuscript, and now its translation, was announced by the National?
Geographic Society at a news conference in Washington. The 26-page?
Judas text is said to be a copy in Coptic, made around A. D. 300, of?
the original Gospel of Judas, written in Greek the century before.

Terry Garcia, an executive vice president of the geographic society,?
said the manuscript, or codex, is considered by scholars and?
scientists to be the most significant ancient, nonbiblical text to be?
found in the past 60 years.

“The codex has been authenticated as a genuine work of ancient?
Christian apocryphal literature,” Mr. Garcia said, citing extensive?
tests of radiocarbon dating, ink analysis and multispectral imaging?
and studies of the script and linguistic style. The ink, for example,?
was consistent with ink of that era, and there was no evidence of?
multiple rewriting.

“This is absolutely typical of ancient Coptic manuscripts,” said?
Stephen Emmel, professor of Coptic studies at the University of?
Munster in Germany. “I am completely convinced.”

The most revealing passages in the Judas manuscript begins, “The?
secret account of the revelation that Jesus spoke in conversation?
with Judas Iscariot during a week, three days before he celebrated?
Passover.”

The account goes on to relate that Jesus refers to the other?
disciples, telling Judas “you will exceed all of them. For you will?
sacrifice the man that clothes me.” By that, scholars familiar with?
Gnostic thinking said, Jesus meant that by helping him get rid of his?
physical flesh, Judas will act to liberate the true spiritual self or?
divine being within Jesus.

Unlike the accounts in the New Testament Gospels of Matthew, Mark,?
Luke and John, the anonymous author of the Gospel of Judas believed?
that Judas Iscariot alone among the 12 disciples understood the?
meaning of Jesus’ teachings and acceded to his will. In the diversity?
of early Christian thought, a group known as Gnostics believed in a?
secret knowledge of how people could escape the prisons of their?
material bodies and return to the spiritual realm from which they came.

Elaine Pagels, a professor of religion at Princeton who specializes?
in studies of the Gnostics, said in a statement, “These discoveries?
are exploding the myth of a monolithic religion, and demonstrating?
how diverse ? and fascinating ? the early Christian movement really?
was.”

The Gospel of Judas is only one of many texts discovered in the last?
65 years, including the gospels of Thomas, Mary Magdalene and Philip,?
believed to be written by Gnostics.

The Gnostics’ beliefs were often viewed by bishops and early church?
leaders as unorthodox, and they were frequently denounced as?
heretics. The discoveries of Gnostic texts have shaken up Biblical?
scholarship by revealing the diversity of beliefs and practices among?
early followers of Jesus.

As the findings have trickled down to churches and universities, they?
have produced a new generation of Christians who now regard the Bible?
not as the literal word of God, but as a product of historical and?
political forces that determined which texts should be included in?
the canon, and which edited out.

For that reason, the discoveries have proved deeply troubling for?
many believers. The Gospel of Judas portrays Judas Iscariot not as a?
betrayer of Jesus, but as his most favored disciple and willing?
collaborator.

Scholars say that they have long been on the lookout for the Gospel?
of Judas because of a reference to what was probably an early version?
of it in a text called Against Heresies, written by Irenaeus, the?
bishop of Lyons, about the year 180.

Irenaeus was a hunter of heretics, and no friend of the Gnostics. He?
wrote, “They produce a fictitious history of this kind, which they?
style the Gospel of Judas.”

Karen L. King, a professor of the history of early Christianity at?
Harvard Divinity School, and an expert in Gnosticism who has not yet?
read the manuscript released today, said that the Gospel of Judas may?
well reflect the kinds of debates that arose in the second and third?
century among Christians.

“You can see how early Christians could say, if Jesus’s death was all?
part of God’s plan, then Judas’s betrayal was part of God’s plan,”?
said Ms. King, the author of several books on the Gospel of Mary. “So?
what does that make Judas? Is he the betrayer, or the facilitator of?
salvation, the guy who makes the crucifixion possible?”

At least one scholar said the new manuscript does not contain?
anything dramatic that would change or undermine traditional?
understanding of the Bible. James M. Robinson, a retired professor of?
Coptic studies at Claremont Graduate University, was the general?
editor of the English edition of the Nag Hammadi library, a?
collection of Gnostic documents discovered in Egypt in 1945.

“Correctly understood, there’s nothing undermining about the Gospel?
of Judas,” Mr. Robinson said in a telephone interview. He said that?
the New Testament gospels of John and Mark both contain passages that?
suggest that Jesus not only picked Judas to betray him, but actually?
encouraged Judas to hand him over to those he knew would crucify him.

Mr. Robinson’s book, “The Secrets of Judas: The Story of the?
Misunderstood Disciple and his Lost Gospel” (Harper San Francisco,?
April 2006), predicts the contents of the Gospel of Judas based on?
his knowledge of Gnostic and Coptic texts, even though he was not?
part of the team of researchers working on the document.

The Egyptian copy of the gospel was written on 13 sheets of papyrus,?
both front and back, and found in a multitude of brittle fragments.

Rudolphe Kasser, a Swiss scholar of Coptic studies, directed the team?
that reconstructed and translated the script. The effort, organized?
by the National Geographic, was supported by Maecenas Foundation for?
Ancient Art, in Basel, Switzerland, and the Waitt Institute for?
Historical Discovery, an American nonprofit organization for the?
application of technology in historical and scientific projects.

The entire 66-page codex also contains a text titled James (also?
known as First Apocalypse of James), a letter by Peter and a text of?
what scholars are provisionally calling Book of Allogenes.

Discovered in the 1970’s in a cavern near El Minya, Egypt, the?
document circulated for years among antiquities dealers in Egypt,?
then Europe and finally in the United States. It moldered in a safe-
deposit box at a bank in Hicksville, N. Y., for 16 years before being?
bought in 2000 by a Zurich dealer, Frieda Nussberger-Tchacos. The?
manuscript was given the name Codex Tchacos.

When attempts to resell the codex failed, Ms. Nussberger-Tchacos?
turned it over to the Maecenas Foundation for conservation and?
translation.

Mr. Robinson said that an Egyptian antiquities dealer offered to sell?
him the document in 1983 for $3 million, but that he could not raise?
the money. He criticized the scholars now associated with the?
project, some of whom are his former students, because he said they?
violated an agreement made years ago by Coptic scholars that new?
discoveries should be made accessible to all qualified scholars.

The manuscript will ultimately be returned to Egypt, where it was?
discovered, and housed in the Coptic Museum in Cairo.

Ted Waitt, the founder and former chief executive of Gateway, said?
that his foundation, the Waitt Institute for Historical Discovery,?
gave the National Geographic Society a grant of more than $1 million?
to restore and preserve the manuscript and make it available to the?
public.

” I didn’t know a whole lot until I got into this about the early?
days of Christianity. It was just extremely fascinating to me,” Mr.?
Waitt said in a telephone interview. He said he had no motivation?
other than being fascinated by the finding. He said that after the?
document was carbon dated and the ink tested, procedures his?
foundation paid for, he had no question about its authenticity. “You?
can potentially question the translation and the interpretation, he?
said, but you can’t fake something like this. It would be impossible.”

From: Henk <knehnav@xs4all.nl>
Subject: [Ibogaine] gospel of judas on tv
Date: April 9, 2006 at 2:50:59 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

bit late, but in a little more than an houre  “the gospel of Judas” on  dutch NG:
http://www.nationalgeographic.nl/channel/?PHPSESSID=3e8758f8e67393a6f75cb1622b4f9da7

Henk


Om Shanti, Jai Mataji, Jai Gangama.

Lost and Free Enterprises
http://www.xs4all.nl/~knehnav

http://www.geocities.com/knehnav55/

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Fwd: Gospel of Judas
Date: April 9, 2006 at 2:00:31 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Dana,

Just curious as to the language of your attached gospel_of_judas_iscariot.pdf as it breaks down the narrative into “scenes.” Is that language customary?

Howard

In a message dated 4/8/06 4:24:39 PM, dana@phantom.com writes:

New gnostic gospel supports passover plot account, thereby buttressing the role of Grail contents with neuro-protective properties as a forensic explanation of what happened in the crucifixion and resurrection.

I now believe that ibogaine may actually have been one of the ingredients in the Grail mixture– because it makes the body  totally numb and able to take being pierced without pain or flinching, and because it’s been patented for ischemia, which is a kind of global stroke effect brought on during Crucifixion by gradual suffocation caused by the windpipe being cut off when the crucified would lean forward trying to rest. Other ingredients would have been some harmaline and possibly cannabis, but not ephedra, which would be unnecessary with the iboga.

If Egyptian mummies have been found with traces of cocaine and nicotine (from the Americas), they couldn’t have had that much trouble getting a bit of root-bark from the sub-Sahara. Iboga originates with the Pygmy, who supposedly had it before anyone else. Somewhere I heard or read (and maybe some one on the list can provide the citation.) that the Pygmy first had it in the Rift Valley, 20,000 years ago.

So the theory is that harmaline was involved in the initiation of the Persian Shah, iboga in the ordination of the Pharaoh. Christ claimed the mantel of both, of course.

Dana/cnw

Begin forwarded message:

From: “William T. Brennan” <wtb208@stern.nyu.edu>
Date: April 6, 2006 10:40:49 PM EDT
To: dana@phantom.com
Subject: Gospel of Judas

Hi Dana,

I hope all’s been well this week.

You may have heard by now, but the Gospel of Judas has recently surfaced.  I’ve copied the NYT story below and have attached a translation of the gospel.  The unquestionably gnostic thread running through it seems like it’s right up your alley.

Predictably, I’ve combed through it looking for potential mushroom references that line up with other more obvious gnostic mushroom references (Heinrich, 2002) and feel like I’ve found a few.  Here they are with some notes:

“Often he did not appear to his disciples as himself, but he was found among them as a child.”

I would love to find out what Greek term was used for “child,” and to get into its etymology.  I’m pretty sure that it’s in Greek mythology (note that this gospel was originally written in Greek) that mushrooms are often referred to in childish terms (e.g., the “little ones”).  This line is especially suspect since the rest of the passage makes no reference to Jesus as a child.

One day he was with his disciples in Judea, and he found them gathered together and seated in pious observance. When he [approached] his disciples, [34] gathered >>together and seated and offering a prayer of thanksgiving over the bread, [he] laughed.
The disciples said to [him], “Master, why are you laughing at [our] prayer of
thanksgiving? We have done what is right.”
He answered and said to them, “I am not laughing at you. <You> are not doing this because of your own will but because it is through this that your god [will be] praised.”
They said, “Master, you are […] the son of our god.”
Jesus said to them, “How do you know me? Truly [I] say to you, no generation of the people that are among you will know me.”

“When Jesus observed their lack of [understanding, he said] to them, “Why has this agitation led you to anger? Your god who is within you and […]”

“Knowing that Judas was reflecting upon something that was exalted, Jesus said to him,
“Step away from the others and I shall tell you the mysteries of the kingdom.”

Jesus seems to be mocking their “bread eating” ritual by noting that it’s putting them in touch with a different god.  Judas, on the other hand, gets favored and enters into “conversation” with Jesus because only he rightfully identifies him.  As you know, different species of Amanitas look pretty similar, and even when you find the right (psychoactive) one, they’re notoriously hard to get a psychedelic trip out of.  Maybe this difficulty is what’s contributing to their “praising of another god.”

“A great angel, the enlightened divine Self-Generated, emerged from the cloud.”

Self-generated?  From the cloud?  Self-generation is unavoidable for a Creator god, but this “great angel” was brought into being by a greater power.  Why would the text run the risk of coming across as self-contradictory by dubbing him/her/it “self-created?”  This odd, quasi-incorrect description of the angel sounds like a traditional mythic mushroom reference to me (i.e., no visible seed, springing up in the wake of clouds).

I’m skeptical myself, but it’s worth thinking about.  In other news, the postering is going really well on Long Island, and I’ll be getting started on the NYU campus area soon as well (assuming no one else has hit it yet).  I’ve got some more things to talk about, both related to the march and the Ibogaine book, so I’ll talk to you soon.

-Bill

Here’s the NYT story:

April 6, 2006
‘Gospel of Judas’ Surfaces After 1,700 Years
By JOHN NOBLE WILFORD and LAURIE GOODSTEIN

An early Christian manuscript, including the only known text of what
is known as the Gospel of Judas, has surfaced after 1,700 years. The
text gives new insights into the relationship of Jesus and the
disciple who betrayed him, scholars reported today. In this version,
Jesus asked Judas, as a close friend, to sell him out to the
authorities, telling Judas he will “exceed” the other disciples by
doing so.

Though some theologians have hypothesized this, scholars who have
studied the new-found text said, this is the first time an ancient
document defends the idea.

The discovery in the desert of Egypt of the leather-bound papyrus
manuscript, and now its translation, was announced by the National
Geographic Society at a news conference in Washington. The 26-page
Judas text is said to be a copy in Coptic, made around A. D. 300, of
the original Gospel of Judas, written in Greek the century before.

Terry Garcia, an executive vice president of the geographic society,
said the manuscript, or codex, is considered by scholars and
scientists to be the most significant ancient, nonbiblical text to be
found in the past 60 years.

“The codex has been authenticated as a genuine work of ancient
Christian apocryphal literature,” Mr. Garcia said, citing extensive
tests of radiocarbon dating, ink analysis and multispectral imaging
and studies of the script and linguistic style. The ink, for example,
was consistent with ink of that era, and there was no evidence of
multiple rewriting.

“This is absolutely typical of ancient Coptic manuscripts,” said
Stephen Emmel, professor of Coptic studies at the University of
Munster in Germany. “I am completely convinced.”

The most revealing passages in the Judas manuscript begins, “The
secret account of the revelation that Jesus spoke in conversation
with Judas Iscariot during a week, three days before he celebrated
Passover.”

The account goes on to relate that Jesus refers to the other
disciples, telling Judas “you will exceed all of them. For you will
sacrifice the man that clothes me.” By that, scholars familiar with
Gnostic thinking said, Jesus meant that by helping him get rid of his
physical flesh, Judas will act to liberate the true spiritual self or
divine being within Jesus.

Unlike the accounts in the New Testament Gospels of Matthew, Mark,
Luke and John, the anonymous author of the Gospel of Judas believed
that Judas Iscariot alone among the 12 disciples understood the
meaning of Jesus’ teachings and acceded to his will. In the diversity
of early Christian thought, a group known as Gnostics believed in a
secret knowledge of how people could escape the prisons of their
material bodies and return to the spiritual realm from which they came.

Elaine Pagels, a professor of religion at Princeton who specializes
in studies of the Gnostics, said in a statement, “These discoveries
are exploding the myth of a monolithic religion, and demonstrating
how diverse — and fascinating — the early Christian movement really
was.”

The Gospel of Judas is only one of many texts discovered in the last
65 years, including the gospels of Thomas, Mary Magdalene and Philip,
believed to be written by Gnostics.

The Gnostics’ beliefs were often viewed by bishops and early church
leaders as unorthodox, and they were frequently denounced as
heretics. The discoveries of Gnostic texts have shaken up Biblical
scholarship by revealing the diversity of beliefs and practices among
early followers of Jesus.

As the findings have trickled down to churches and universities, they
have produced a new generation of Christians who now regard the Bible
not as the literal word of God, but as a product of historical and
political forces that determined which texts should be included in
the canon, and which edited out.

For that reason, the discoveries have proved deeply troubling for
many believers. The Gospel of Judas portrays Judas Iscariot not as a
betrayer of Jesus, but as his most favored disciple and willing
collaborator.

Scholars say that they have long been on the lookout for the Gospel
of Judas because of a reference to what was probably an early version
of it in a text called Against Heresies, written by Irenaeus, the
bishop of Lyons, about the year 180.

Irenaeus was a hunter of heretics, and no friend of the Gnostics. He
wrote, “They produce a fictitious history of this kind, which they
style the Gospel of Judas.”

Karen L. King, a professor of the history of early Christianity at
Harvard Divinity School, and an expert in Gnosticism who has not yet
read the manuscript released today, said that the Gospel of Judas may
well reflect the kinds of debates that arose in the second and third
century among Christians.

“You can see how early Christians could say, if Jesus’s death was all
part of God’s plan, then Judas’s betrayal was part of God’s plan,”
said Ms. King, the author of several books on the Gospel of Mary. “So
what does that make Judas? Is he the betrayer, or the facilitator of
salvation, the guy who makes the crucifixion possible?”

At least one scholar said the new manuscript does not contain
anything dramatic that would change or undermine traditional
understanding of the Bible. James M. Robinson, a retired professor of
Coptic studies at Claremont Graduate University, was the general
editor of the English edition of the Nag Hammadi library, a
collection of Gnostic documents discovered in Egypt in 1945.

“Correctly understood, there’s nothing undermining about the Gospel
of Judas,” Mr. Robinson said in a telephone interview. He said that
the New Testament gospels of John and Mark both contain passages that
suggest that Jesus not only picked Judas to betray him, but actually
encouraged Judas to hand him over to those he knew would crucify him.

Mr. Robinson’s book, “The Secrets of Judas: The Story of the
Misunderstood Disciple and his Lost Gospel” (Harper San Francisco,
April 2006), predicts the contents of the Gospel of Judas based on
his knowledge of Gnostic and Coptic texts, even though he was not
part of the team of researchers working on the document.

The Egyptian copy of the gospel was written on 13 sheets of papyrus,
both front and back, and found in a multitude of brittle fragments.

Rudolphe Kasser, a Swiss scholar of Coptic studies, directed the team
that reconstructed and translated the script. The effort, organized
by the National Geographic, was supported by Maecenas Foundation for
Ancient Art, in Basel, Switzerland, and the Waitt Institute for
Historical Discovery, an American nonprofit organization for the
application of technology in historical and scientific projects.

The entire 66-page codex also contains a text titled James (also
known as First Apocalypse of James), a letter by Peter and a text of
what scholars are provisionally calling Book of Allogenes.

Discovered in the 1970’s in a cavern near El Minya, Egypt, the
document circulated for years among antiquities dealers in Egypt,
then Europe and finally in the United States. It moldered in a safe-
deposit box at a bank in Hicksville, N. Y., for 16 years before being
bought in 2000 by a Zurich dealer, Frieda Nussberger-Tchacos. The
manuscript was given the name Codex Tchacos.

When attempts to resell the codex failed, Ms. Nussberger-Tchacos
turned it over to the Maecenas Foundation for conservation and
translation.

Mr. Robinson said that an Egyptian antiquities dealer offered to sell
him the document in 1983 for $3 million, but that he could not raise
the money. He criticized the scholars now associated with the
project, some of whom are his former students, because he said they
violated an agreement made years ago by Coptic scholars that new
discoveries should be made accessible to all qualified scholars.

The manuscript will ultimately be returned to Egypt, where it was
discovered, and housed in the Coptic Museum in Cairo.

Ted Waitt, the founder and former chief executive of Gateway, said
that his foundation, the Waitt Institute for Historical Discovery,
gave the National Geographic Society a grant of more than $1 million
to restore and preserve the manuscript and make it available to the
public.

” I didn’t know a whole lot until I got into this about the early
days of Christianity. It was just extremely fascinating to me,” Mr.
Waitt said in a telephone interview. He said he had no motivation
other than being fascinated by the finding. He said that after the
document was carbon dated and the ink tested, procedures his
foundation paid for, he had no question about its authenticity. “You
can potentially question the translation and the interpretation, he
said, but you can’t fake something like this. It would be impossible.”

From: marko <marko@phantom.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] for sara /
Date: April 9, 2006 at 5:38:56 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Nothing to worry, Sara! If reports of those FBI/NSA/DEA/CIA people that follow this list will be the official history, it will be clear that it’s THEM who followed the right road to IBOgainise the world!

As for different tribes, I think that each of us (you, Howard, Dana, Patrick, Eric, Brian, Preston, Callie, Guy, Henk…. cannot mention everyone:) is doing the best of his/her abilities towards the final goal. Each of us is different and has different possibilities for work, but each makes his/her own part of the big mosaic, on different planes and levels and realities.

Will be great to see the whole picture one day 😉

The “thruth” is not universal, but very individual thing; that’s why so many people (the vast majority) follow lies. It’s much easier and much more comfortable to believe whichever “truth” was beaten into their heads during their lives, than make research and use ones own brains and connection to higher planes of energy.

It’s easier to watch TV, eat and drink junk, than think. But, it’s a way of “life”.

Marko

Sara Glatt wrote:

history repeats it’s
self.

who knows the truth about what is really happened?and why so many
believers follows unreliable data’s.?

I hope that the kids in future will not fight about which Ibogainsight
was real and which was unreliable sorce of Data’s.
which tribe is the real iboganist, the one that follows Patrick or the one
the follows Dana.

sara

Funny, the bible (at least Jesus’ life) was written at least 50 years

after his death, some parts even more than 100 years later.

It’s good that at least some US govmnt agencies write what’s going on
right now, so reliable <LOL!!> data will be available centuries from
now, when the whole known space/time will be IBOgainised =)

Hey, kids will learn about us in school:
Missionaires had to leave Divided States of America, and they settled in
neighbouring countries and people were coming to Them to get
IBOgainised. And Holly Patrick opened the gate in Cyberspace and people
rushed through them to meet in Cyberspace, for the Evil Government could
not follow them there. Only a handful of true believers stayed in
Divided States of America, and were preparing ground for Good Times when
IBOgainising people will be legal there by The Law. And such time came,
and they were prepared…

Marko

pascall roland wrote:

Hi Sara,

thks for info.

did you know that Al Bukhari, to whom the evangelist sam shamoun
refers to, did collect data on mohammad abt. 200 years after
mohammad’s death. The whole sunni tradition is built up the same way,
means it started to be written down centuries after the events it was
supposed to study.
shamoun could have mentioned that.

Since at mohammad’s times, most traditions were transmitted orally, I
wonder what scholars like al bukhari could have gathered – 2oo years
later –  and whether those collected data were really reliable and had
not been altered!

even the qoran was written down a long time after mohammad’s death.
what guarantees do we have the text is 100% correct?

personally I believe it is not sufficient, and even erroneous, when
someone aims to get an objective idea abt a keyfigure like mohammad,
by reading sam shamoun or al bukhari.

that’s why I asked you for bibliography references,

love

roland

From: “Sara Glatt” <sara119@xs4all.nl>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] for Pascal,
Date: Fri, 7 Apr 2006 14:20:56 +0200 (CEST)

Hi pascal,

here you can find lots of info. about muhammad,

http://www.answering-islam.org/Shamoun/prepubescent.htm

Sara

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FREE pop-up blocking with the new MSN Toolbar – get it now!
http://toolbar.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200415ave/direct/01/

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From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Fwd: Gospel of Judas
Date: April 9, 2006 at 10:00:05 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I wouldn’t go as far as saying it is an end of time deception but I do find it s/w disturbing.
Of course, it is my strict up bringing in the Church of Christ, who has one of the one of the strictest adherences to the New Testament Gospel.
Personally I do not understand why we have to have a forensic explanation of the crucifixion and resurrection of Jesus. IT is what makes the story so wondrous….that is the fact that it was prophesied and is nothing short of a miracle!
I do love the Easter story!
I do find Judas a very interesting subject as I do all the characters of the Bible.
Callie
From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Fwd: Gospel of Judas
Date: April 9, 2006 at 5:53:20 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

“an obvious end-times deception” is how an in-law put his reaction to my sending him a link about this Gospel of Judas.
Egad.
Fundamentalist christians preaching “god this, god that, jesus this, jesus that,” scare me as much as the Taliban ever would.
—–
“If God dropped acid, would he see people?”  ~Steven Wright

Peace, love and lotsof respect.
Preston Peet
ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor Underground- the Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations, Astonishing Archaeology and Hidden History
Editor Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Columnist HighTimes mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —– From: Dana Beal
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Saturday, April 08, 2006 4:23 PM
Subject: [Ibogaine] Fwd: Gospel of Judas

New gnostic gospel supports passover plot account, thereby buttressing the role of Grail contents with neuro-protective properties as a forensic explanation of what happened in the crucifixion and resurrection.

I now believe that ibogaine may actually have been one of the ingredients in the Grail mixture– because it makes the body? totally numb and able to take being pierced without pain or flinching, and because it’s been patented for ischemia, which is a kind of global stroke effect brought on during Crucifixion by gradual suffocation caused by the windpipe being cut off when the crucified would lean forward trying to rest. Other ingredients would have been some harmaline and possibly cannabis, but not ephedra, which would be unnecessary with the iboga.

If Egyptian mummies have been found with traces of cocaine and nicotine (from the Americas), they couldn’t have had that much trouble getting a bit of root-bark from the sub-Sahara. Iboga originates with the Pygmy, who supposedly had it before anyone else. Somewhere I heard or read?(and maybe some one on the list can provide the citation.)?that the Pygmy first had it in the Rift Valley, 20,000 years ago.?

So the theory is that harmaline was involved in the initiation of the Persian Shah, iboga in the ordination of the Pharaoh. Christ claimed the mantel of both, of course.

Dana/cnw?

Begin forwarded message:

From: “William T. Brennan” <wtb208@stern.nyu.edu>
Date: April 6, 2006 10:40:49 PM EDT
To: dana@phantom.com
Subject: Gospel of Judas

Hi Dana,

I hope all’s been well this week.

You may have heard by now, but the Gospel of Judas has recently surfaced.? I’ve copied the NYT story below and have attached a translation of the gospel.? The unquestionably gnostic thread running through it seems like it’s right up your alley. ?

Predictably, I’ve combed through it looking for potential mushroom references that line up with other more obvious gnostic mushroom references (Heinrich, 2002) and feel like I’ve found a few.? Here they are with some notes:

?Often he did not appear to his disciples as himself, but he was found among them as a child.?

I would love to find out what Greek term was used for ?child,? and to get into its etymology.? I?m pretty sure that it?s in Greek mythology (note that this gospel was originally written in Greek) that mushrooms are often referred to in childish terms (e.g., the ?little ones?).? This line is especially suspect since the rest of the passage makes no reference to Jesus as a child.

One day he was with his disciples in Judea, and he found them gathered together and seated in pious observance. When he [approached] his disciples, [34] gathered >>together and seated and offering a prayer of thanksgiving over the bread, [he] laughed.
The disciples said to [him], ?Master, why are you laughing at [our] prayer of
thanksgiving? We have done what is right.?
He answered and said to them, ?I am not laughing at you. <You> are not doing this because of your own will but because it is through this that your god [will be] praised.?
They said, ?Master, you are [?] the son of our god.?
Jesus said to them, ?How do you know me? Truly [I] say to you, no generation of the people that are among you will know me.?

?When Jesus observed their lack of [understanding, he said] to them, ?Why has this agitation led you to anger? Your god who is within you and [?]?

?Knowing that Judas was reflecting upon something that was exalted, Jesus said to him,
?Step away from the others and I shall tell you the mysteries of the kingdom.?

Jesus seems to be mocking their ?bread eating? ritual by noting that it?s putting them in touch with a different god.? Judas, on the other hand, gets favored and enters into ?conversation? with Jesus because only he rightfully identifies him.? As you know, different species of Amanitas look pretty similar, and even when you find the right (psychoactive) one, they?re notoriously hard to get a psychedelic trip out of.? Maybe this difficulty is what?s contributing to their ?praising of another god.?

?A great angel, the enlightened divine Self-Generated, emerged from the cloud.?

Self-generated?? From the cloud?? Self-generation is unavoidable for a Creator god, but this ?great angel? was brought into being by a greater power.? Why would the text run the risk of coming across as self-contradictory by dubbing him/her/it ?self-created??? This odd, quasi-incorrect description of the angel sounds like a traditional mythic mushroom reference to me (i.e., no visible seed, springing up in the wake of clouds).

I’m skeptical myself, but it’s worth thinking about.? In other news, the postering is going really well on Long Island, and I’ll be getting started on the NYU campus area soon as well (assuming no one else has hit it yet).? I’ve got some more things to talk about, both related to the march and the Ibogaine book, so I’ll talk to you soon. ?

-Bill

Here’s the NYT story:

April 6, 2006
‘Gospel of Judas’ Surfaces After 1,700 Years
By JOHN NOBLE WILFORD and LAURIE GOODSTEIN

An early Christian manuscript, including the only known text of what?
is known as the Gospel of Judas, has surfaced after 1,700 years. The?
text gives new insights into the relationship of Jesus and the?
disciple who betrayed him, scholars reported today. In this version,?
Jesus asked Judas, as a close friend, to sell him out to the?
authorities, telling Judas he will “exceed” the other disciples by?
doing so.

Though some theologians have hypothesized this, scholars who have?
studied the new-found text said, this is the first time an ancient?
document defends the idea.

The discovery in the desert of Egypt of the leather-bound papyrus?
manuscript, and now its translation, was announced by the National?
Geographic Society at a news conference in Washington. The 26-page?
Judas text is said to be a copy in Coptic, made around A. D. 300, of?
the original Gospel of Judas, written in Greek the century before.

Terry Garcia, an executive vice president of the geographic society,?
said the manuscript, or codex, is considered by scholars and?
scientists to be the most significant ancient, nonbiblical text to be?
found in the past 60 years.

“The codex has been authenticated as a genuine work of ancient?
Christian apocryphal literature,” Mr. Garcia said, citing extensive?
tests of radiocarbon dating, ink analysis and multispectral imaging?
and studies of the script and linguistic style. The ink, for example,?
was consistent with ink of that era, and there was no evidence of?
multiple rewriting.

“This is absolutely typical of ancient Coptic manuscripts,” said?
Stephen Emmel, professor of Coptic studies at the University of?
Munster in Germany. “I am completely convinced.”

The most revealing passages in the Judas manuscript begins, “The?
secret account of the revelation that Jesus spoke in conversation?
with Judas Iscariot during a week, three days before he celebrated?
Passover.”

The account goes on to relate that Jesus refers to the other?
disciples, telling Judas “you will exceed all of them. For you will?
sacrifice the man that clothes me.” By that, scholars familiar with?
Gnostic thinking said, Jesus meant that by helping him get rid of his?
physical flesh, Judas will act to liberate the true spiritual self or?
divine being within Jesus.

Unlike the accounts in the New Testament Gospels of Matthew, Mark,?
Luke and John, the anonymous author of the Gospel of Judas believed?
that Judas Iscariot alone among the 12 disciples understood the?
meaning of Jesus’ teachings and acceded to his will. In the diversity?
of early Christian thought, a group known as Gnostics believed in a?
secret knowledge of how people could escape the prisons of their?
material bodies and return to the spiritual realm from which they came.

Elaine Pagels, a professor of religion at Princeton who specializes?
in studies of the Gnostics, said in a statement, “These discoveries?
are exploding the myth of a monolithic religion, and demonstrating?
how diverse ? and fascinating ? the early Christian movement really?
was.”

The Gospel of Judas is only one of many texts discovered in the last?
65 years, including the gospels of Thomas, Mary Magdalene and Philip,?
believed to be written by Gnostics.

The Gnostics’ beliefs were often viewed by bishops and early church?
leaders as unorthodox, and they were frequently denounced as?
heretics. The discoveries of Gnostic texts have shaken up Biblical?
scholarship by revealing the diversity of beliefs and practices among?
early followers of Jesus.

As the findings have trickled down to churches and universities, they?
have produced a new generation of Christians who now regard the Bible?
not as the literal word of God, but as a product of historical and?
political forces that determined which texts should be included in?
the canon, and which edited out.

For that reason, the discoveries have proved deeply troubling for?
many believers. The Gospel of Judas portrays Judas Iscariot not as a?
betrayer of Jesus, but as his most favored disciple and willing?
collaborator.

Scholars say that they have long been on the lookout for the Gospel?
of Judas because of a reference to what was probably an early version?
of it in a text called Against Heresies, written by Irenaeus, the?
bishop of Lyons, about the year 180.

Irenaeus was a hunter of heretics, and no friend of the Gnostics. He?
wrote, “They produce a fictitious history of this kind, which they?
style the Gospel of Judas.”

Karen L. King, a professor of the history of early Christianity at?
Harvard Divinity School, and an expert in Gnosticism who has not yet?
read the manuscript released today, said that the Gospel of Judas may?
well reflect the kinds of debates that arose in the second and third?
century among Christians.

“You can see how early Christians could say, if Jesus’s death was all?
part of God’s plan, then Judas’s betrayal was part of God’s plan,”?
said Ms. King, the author of several books on the Gospel of Mary. “So?
what does that make Judas? Is he the betrayer, or the facilitator of?
salvation, the guy who makes the crucifixion possible?”

At least one scholar said the new manuscript does not contain?
anything dramatic that would change or undermine traditional?
understanding of the Bible. James M. Robinson, a retired professor of?
Coptic studies at Claremont Graduate University, was the general?
editor of the English edition of the Nag Hammadi library, a?
collection of Gnostic documents discovered in Egypt in 1945.

“Correctly understood, there’s nothing undermining about the Gospel?
of Judas,” Mr. Robinson said in a telephone interview. He said that?
the New Testament gospels of John and Mark both contain passages that?
suggest that Jesus not only picked Judas to betray him, but actually?
encouraged Judas to hand him over to those he knew would crucify him.

Mr. Robinson’s book, “The Secrets of Judas: The Story of the?
Misunderstood Disciple and his Lost Gospel” (Harper San Francisco,?
April 2006), predicts the contents of the Gospel of Judas based on?
his knowledge of Gnostic and Coptic texts, even though he was not?
part of the team of researchers working on the document.

The Egyptian copy of the gospel was written on 13 sheets of papyrus,?
both front and back, and found in a multitude of brittle fragments.

Rudolphe Kasser, a Swiss scholar of Coptic studies, directed the team?
that reconstructed and translated the script. The effort, organized?
by the National Geographic, was supported by Maecenas Foundation for?
Ancient Art, in Basel, Switzerland, and the Waitt Institute for?
Historical Discovery, an American nonprofit organization for the?
application of technology in historical and scientific projects.

The entire 66-page codex also contains a text titled James (also?
known as First Apocalypse of James), a letter by Peter and a text of?
what scholars are provisionally calling Book of Allogenes.

Discovered in the 1970’s in a cavern near El Minya, Egypt, the?
document circulated for years among antiquities dealers in Egypt,?
then Europe and finally in the United States. It moldered in a safe-
deposit box at a bank in Hicksville, N. Y., for 16 years before being?
bought in 2000 by a Zurich dealer, Frieda Nussberger-Tchacos. The?
manuscript was given the name Codex Tchacos.

When attempts to resell the codex failed, Ms. Nussberger-Tchacos?
turned it over to the Maecenas Foundation for conservation and?
translation.

Mr. Robinson said that an Egyptian antiquities dealer offered to sell?
him the document in 1983 for $3 million, but that he could not raise?
the money. He criticized the scholars now associated with the?
project, some of whom are his former students, because he said they?
violated an agreement made years ago by Coptic scholars that new?
discoveries should be made accessible to all qualified scholars.

The manuscript will ultimately be returned to Egypt, where it was?
discovered, and housed in the Coptic Museum in Cairo.

Ted Waitt, the founder and former chief executive of Gateway, said?
that his foundation, the Waitt Institute for Historical Discovery,?
gave the National Geographic Society a grant of more than $1 million?
to restore and preserve the manuscript and make it available to the?
public.

” I didn’t know a whole lot until I got into this about the early?
days of Christianity. It was just extremely fascinating to me,” Mr.?
Waitt said in a telephone interview. He said he had no motivation?
other than being fascinated by the finding. He said that after the?
document was carbon dated and the ink tested, procedures his?
foundation paid for, he had no question about its authenticity. “You?
can potentially question the translation and the interpretation, he?
said, but you can’t fake something like this. It would be impossible.”

New gnostic gospel supports passover plot account, thereby
buttressing the role of Grail contents with neuro-protective
properties as a forensic explanation of what happened in the
crucifixion and resurrection.

I now believe that ibogaine may actually have been one of the
ingredients in the Grail mixture– because it makes the body  totally
numb and able to take being pierced without pain or flinching, and
because it’s been patented for ischemia, which is a kind of global
stroke effect brought on during Crucifixion by gradual suffocation
caused by the windpipe being cut off when the crucified would lean
forward trying to rest. Other ingredients would have been some
harmaline and possibly cannabis, but not ephedra, which would be
unnecessary with the iboga.

If Egyptian mummies have been found with traces of cocaine and
nicotine (from the Americas), they couldn’t have had that much
trouble getting a bit of root-bark from the sub-Sahara. Iboga
originates with the Pygmy, who supposedly had it before anyone else.
Somewhere I heard or read (and maybe some one on the list can provide
the citation.) that the Pygmy first had it in the Rift Valley, 20,000
years ago.

So the theory is that harmaline was involved in the initiation of the
Persian Shah, iboga in the ordination of the Pharaoh. Christ claimed
the mantel of both, of course.

Dana/cnw

Begin forwarded message:

From: “William T. Brennan” <wtb208@stern.nyu.edu>
Date: April 6, 2006 10:40:49 PM EDT
To: dana@phantom.com
Subject: Gospel of Judas

Hi Dana,

I hope all’s been well this week.

You may have heard by now, but the Gospel of Judas has recently
surfaced.  I’ve copied the NYT story below and have attached a
translation of the gospel.  The unquestionably gnostic thread
running through it seems like it’s right up your alley.

Predictably, I’ve combed through it looking for potential mushroom
references that line up with other more obvious gnostic mushroom
references (Heinrich, 2002) and feel like I’ve found a few.  Here
they are with some notes:

“Often he did not appear to his disciples as himself, but he was
found among them as a child.”

I would love to find out what Greek term was used for “child,”
and to get into its etymology.  I’m pretty sure that it’s in
Greek mythology (note that this gospel was originally written in
Greek) that mushrooms are often referred to in childish terms
(e.g., the “little ones”).  This line is especially suspect
since the rest of the passage makes no reference to Jesus as a child.

One day he was with his disciples in Judea, and he found them
gathered together and seated in pious observance. When he
[approached] his disciples, [34] gathered >>together and seated
and offering a prayer of thanksgiving over the bread, [he] laughed.
The disciples said to [him], “Master, why are you laughing at
[our] prayer of
thanksgiving? We have done what is right.”
He answered and said to them, “I am not laughing at you. <You>
are not doing this because of your own will but because it is
through this that your god [will be] praised.”
They said, “Master, you are […] the son of our god.”
Jesus said to them, “How do you know me? Truly [I] say to you,
no generation of the people that are among you will know me.”

“When Jesus observed their lack of [understanding, he said] to
them, “Why has this agitation led you to anger? Your god who is
within you and […]”

“Knowing that Judas was reflecting upon something that was
exalted, Jesus said to him,
“Step away from the others and I shall tell you the mysteries of
the kingdom.”

Jesus seems to be mocking their “bread eating” ritual by noting
that it’s putting them in touch with a different god.  Judas, on
the other hand, gets favored and enters into “conversation” with
Jesus because only he rightfully identifies him.  As you know,
different species of Amanitas look pretty similar, and even when
you find the right (psychoactive) one, they’re notoriously hard to
get a psychedelic trip out of.  Maybe this difficulty is what’s
contributing to their “praising of another god.”

“A great angel, the enlightened divine Self-Generated, emerged
from the cloud.”

Self-generated?  From the cloud?  Self-generation is unavoidable
for a Creator god, but this “great angel” was brought into being
by a greater power.  Why would the text run the risk of coming
across as self-contradictory by dubbing him/her/it “self-
created?”  This odd, quasi-incorrect description of the angel
sounds like a traditional mythic mushroom reference to me (i.e., no
visible seed, springing up in the wake of clouds).

I’m skeptical myself, but it’s worth thinking about.  In other
news, the postering is going really well on Long Island, and I’ll
be getting started on the NYU campus area soon as well (assuming no
one else has hit it yet).  I’ve got some more things to talk about,
both related to the march and the Ibogaine book, so I’ll talk to
you soon.

-Bill

Here’s the NYT story:

April 6, 2006
‘Gospel of Judas’ Surfaces After 1,700 Years
By JOHN NOBLE WILFORD and LAURIE GOODSTEIN

An early Christian manuscript, including the only known text of what
is known as the Gospel of Judas, has surfaced after 1,700 years. The
text gives new insights into the relationship of Jesus and the
disciple who betrayed him, scholars reported today. In this version,
Jesus asked Judas, as a close friend, to sell him out to the
authorities, telling Judas he will “exceed” the other disciples by
doing so.

Though some theologians have hypothesized this, scholars who have
studied the new-found text said, this is the first time an ancient
document defends the idea.

The discovery in the desert of Egypt of the leather-bound papyrus
manuscript, and now its translation, was announced by the National
Geographic Society at a news conference in Washington. The 26-page
Judas text is said to be a copy in Coptic, made around A. D. 300, of
the original Gospel of Judas, written in Greek the century before.

Terry Garcia, an executive vice president of the geographic society,
said the manuscript, or codex, is considered by scholars and
scientists to be the most significant ancient, nonbiblical text to be
found in the past 60 years.

“The codex has been authenticated as a genuine work of ancient
Christian apocryphal literature,” Mr. Garcia said, citing extensive
tests of radiocarbon dating, ink analysis and multispectral imaging
and studies of the script and linguistic style. The ink, for example,
was consistent with ink of that era, and there was no evidence of
multiple rewriting.

“This is absolutely typical of ancient Coptic manuscripts,” said
Stephen Emmel, professor of Coptic studies at the University of
Munster in Germany. “I am completely convinced.”

The most revealing passages in the Judas manuscript begins, “The
secret account of the revelation that Jesus spoke in conversation
with Judas Iscariot during a week, three days before he celebrated
Passover.”

The account goes on to relate that Jesus refers to the other
disciples, telling Judas “you will exceed all of them. For you will
sacrifice the man that clothes me.” By that, scholars familiar with
Gnostic thinking said, Jesus meant that by helping him get rid of his
physical flesh, Judas will act to liberate the true spiritual self or
divine being within Jesus.

Unlike the accounts in the New Testament Gospels of Matthew, Mark,
Luke and John, the anonymous author of the Gospel of Judas believed
that Judas Iscariot alone among the 12 disciples understood the
meaning of Jesus’ teachings and acceded to his will. In the diversity
of early Christian thought, a group known as Gnostics believed in a
secret knowledge of how people could escape the prisons of their
material bodies and return to the spiritual realm from which they
came.

Elaine Pagels, a professor of religion at Princeton who specializes
in studies of the Gnostics, said in a statement, “These discoveries
are exploding the myth of a monolithic religion, and demonstrating
how diverse — and fascinating — the early Christian movement
really
was.”

The Gospel of Judas is only one of many texts discovered in the last
65 years, including the gospels of Thomas, Mary Magdalene and Philip,
believed to be written by Gnostics.

The Gnostics’ beliefs were often viewed by bishops and early church
leaders as unorthodox, and they were frequently denounced as
heretics. The discoveries of Gnostic texts have shaken up Biblical
scholarship by revealing the diversity of beliefs and practices among
early followers of Jesus.

As the findings have trickled down to churches and universities, they
have produced a new generation of Christians who now regard the Bible
not as the literal word of God, but as a product of historical and
political forces that determined which texts should be included in
the canon, and which edited out.

For that reason, the discoveries have proved deeply troubling for
many believers. The Gospel of Judas portrays Judas Iscariot not as a
betrayer of Jesus, but as his most favored disciple and willing
collaborator.

Scholars say that they have long been on the lookout for the Gospel
of Judas because of a reference to what was probably an early version
of it in a text called Against Heresies, written by Irenaeus, the
bishop of Lyons, about the year 180.

Irenaeus was a hunter of heretics, and no friend of the Gnostics. He
wrote, “They produce a fictitious history of this kind, which they
style the Gospel of Judas.”

Karen L. King, a professor of the history of early Christianity at
Harvard Divinity School, and an expert in Gnosticism who has not yet
read the manuscript released today, said that the Gospel of Judas may
well reflect the kinds of debates that arose in the second and third
century among Christians.

“You can see how early Christians could say, if Jesus’s death was all
part of God’s plan, then Judas’s betrayal was part of God’s plan,”
said Ms. King, the author of several books on the Gospel of Mary. “So
what does that make Judas? Is he the betrayer, or the facilitator of
salvation, the guy who makes the crucifixion possible?”

At least one scholar said the new manuscript does not contain
anything dramatic that would change or undermine traditional
understanding of the Bible. James M. Robinson, a retired professor of
Coptic studies at Claremont Graduate University, was the general
editor of the English edition of the Nag Hammadi library, a
collection of Gnostic documents discovered in Egypt in 1945.

“Correctly understood, there’s nothing undermining about the Gospel
of Judas,” Mr. Robinson said in a telephone interview. He said that
the New Testament gospels of John and Mark both contain passages that
suggest that Jesus not only picked Judas to betray him, but actually
encouraged Judas to hand him over to those he knew would crucify him.

Mr. Robinson’s book, “The Secrets of Judas: The Story of the
Misunderstood Disciple and his Lost Gospel” (Harper San Francisco,
April 2006), predicts the contents of the Gospel of Judas based on
his knowledge of Gnostic and Coptic texts, even though he was not
part of the team of researchers working on the document.

The Egyptian copy of the gospel was written on 13 sheets of papyrus,
both front and back, and found in a multitude of brittle fragments.

Rudolphe Kasser, a Swiss scholar of Coptic studies, directed the team
that reconstructed and translated the script. The effort, organized
by the National Geographic, was supported by Maecenas Foundation for
Ancient Art, in Basel, Switzerland, and the Waitt Institute for
Historical Discovery, an American nonprofit organization for the
application of technology in historical and scientific projects.

The entire 66-page codex also contains a text titled James (also
known as First Apocalypse of James), a letter by Peter and a text of
what scholars are provisionally calling Book of Allogenes.

Discovered in the 1970’s in a cavern near El Minya, Egypt, the
document circulated for years among antiquities dealers in Egypt,
then Europe and finally in the United States. It moldered in a safe-
deposit box at a bank in Hicksville, N. Y., for 16 years before being
bought in 2000 by a Zurich dealer, Frieda Nussberger-Tchacos. The
manuscript was given the name Codex Tchacos.

When attempts to resell the codex failed, Ms. Nussberger-Tchacos
turned it over to the Maecenas Foundation for conservation and
translation.

Mr. Robinson said that an Egyptian antiquities dealer offered to sell
him the document in 1983 for $3 million, but that he could not raise
the money. He criticized the scholars now associated with the
project, some of whom are his former students, because he said they
violated an agreement made years ago by Coptic scholars that new
discoveries should be made accessible to all qualified scholars.

The manuscript will ultimately be returned to Egypt, where it was
discovered, and housed in the Coptic Museum in Cairo.

Ted Waitt, the founder and former chief executive of Gateway, said
that his foundation, the Waitt Institute for Historical Discovery,
gave the National Geographic Society a grant of more than $1 million
to restore and preserve the manuscript and make it available to the
public.

” I didn’t know a whole lot until I got into this about the early
days of Christianity. It was just extremely fascinating to me,” Mr.
Waitt said in a telephone interview. He said he had no motivation
other than being fascinated by the finding. He said that after the
document was carbon dated and the ink tested, procedures his
foundation paid for, he had no question about its authenticity. “You
can potentially question the translation and the interpretation, he
said, but you can’t fake something like this. It would be impossible.”

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From: “Sara Glatt” <sara119@xs4all.nl>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] for sara /
Date: April 8, 2006 at 10:11:47 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

history repeats it’s
self.

who knows the truth about what is really happened?and why so many
believers follows unreliable data’s.?

I hope that the kids in future will not fight about which Ibogainsight
was real and which was unreliable sorce of Data’s.
which tribe is the real iboganist, the one that follows Patrick or the one
the follows Dana.

sara

Funny, the bible (at least Jesus’ life) was written at least 50 years
after his death, some parts even more than 100 years later.

It’s good that at least some US govmnt agencies write what’s going on
right now, so reliable <LOL!!> data will be available centuries from
now, when the whole known space/time will be IBOgainised =)

Hey, kids will learn about us in school:
Missionaires had to leave Divided States of America, and they settled in
neighbouring countries and people were coming to Them to get
IBOgainised. And Holly Patrick opened the gate in Cyberspace and people
rushed through them to meet in Cyberspace, for the Evil Government could
not follow them there. Only a handful of true believers stayed in
Divided States of America, and were preparing ground for Good Times when
IBOgainising people will be legal there by The Law. And such time came,
and they were prepared…

Marko

pascall roland wrote:

Hi Sara,

thks for info.

did you know that Al Bukhari, to whom the evangelist sam shamoun
refers to, did collect data on mohammad abt. 200 years after
mohammad’s death. The whole sunni tradition is built up the same way,
means it started to be written down centuries after the events it was
supposed to study.
shamoun could have mentioned that.

Since at mohammad’s times, most traditions were transmitted orally, I
wonder what scholars like al bukhari could have gathered – 2oo years
later –  and whether those collected data were really reliable and had
not been altered!

even the qoran was written down a long time after mohammad’s death.
what guarantees do we have the text is 100% correct?

personally I believe it is not sufficient, and even erroneous, when
someone aims to get an objective idea abt a keyfigure like mohammad,
by reading sam shamoun or al bukhari.

that’s why I asked you for bibliography references,

love

roland

From: “Sara Glatt” <sara119@xs4all.nl>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] for Pascal,
Date: Fri, 7 Apr 2006 14:20:56 +0200 (CEST)

Hi pascal,

here you can find lots of info. about muhammad,

http://www.answering-islam.org/Shamoun/prepubescent.htm

Sara

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_________________________________________________________________
FREE pop-up blocking with the new MSN Toolbar – get it now!
http://toolbar.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200415ave/direct/01/

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From: captkirk <captkirk@clear.net.nz>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] [OT] ‘To hear a list of terrorist organisations, press 1…’
Date: April 8, 2006 at 10:08:40 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

—– Original Message Follows —–
This is a good story to read, especially for the peeps
here who like to rant when someone mentions that some mega
huge 5MB attachment of junk has crashed their email.

‘sign up to yahoo or gmail for free you loser!!’

Oi!!! I resemble that remark!!!
lol
thx vector.

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From: Vector Vector <vector620022002@yahoo.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] [OT] ‘To hear a list of terrorist organisations, press 1…’
Date: April 8, 2006 at 7:32:50 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

This is a good story to read, especially for the peeps here who like to
rant when someone mentions that some mega huge 5MB attachment of junk
has crashed their email.

‘sign up to yahoo or gmail for free you loser!!’

Or don’t, unless you want everything you ever read or write being
available to anyone yahoo or google choose to give your information to.

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2006/04/07/gmail_emergency/

Nobody ever reads those huge ‘terms of use’ agreements when you sign on
for a new email, but if you ever took the time to read all 20 pages of
what you click ‘I agree!’ to without reading it, you’re signing away
all your privacy before you even open your mailbox.

Nothing is really ‘free’ in case you forgot 😉

This might be of special interest to all the people who need ibo and
are involved in ‘underground treatments’ if anybody ever wants to read
everything you ever wrote, if it’s deleted or not (google never deletes
anything, even if you delete your email, you deleted out of your
account, google still holds on to it).

.:vector:.

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com

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From: “Jasen Chamoun” <jasenhappy@optusnet.com.au>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Needs Need, Must must. There is no want in the Kingdom!!!
Date: April 8, 2006 at 7:32:10 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

That you are Kirsty,..that you are.

I love ya girl, Jasen
—– Original Message —– From: “Kirk” <captkirk@clear.net.nz>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Saturday, April 08, 2006 3:51 PM
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Needs Need, Must must. There is no want in the Kingdom!!!

I am God.

—–Original Message—–
From: Billy J [mailto:billjohnson6@sympatico.ca]
Sent: Saturday, 8 April 2006 5:09 p.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Needs Need, Must must. There is no want in the
Kingdom!!!

No wants in the Kingdom Is correct,
Yet remember that the path is narrow,
and I am getting off the wide path once again-

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From: Vector Vector <vector620022002@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] For Vector!!!~”’;:)
Date: April 8, 2006 at 7:25:45 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Thanks and no problem Paul. I think a lot of peeps here believe in God,
if not most of those who have done ibo. I also think you’re going to
find a lot of different interpretations of who or what that god is and
what it means to the person in question 😉

Good luck with your detox, you sound like you really want to make it
and I hope you do!

.:vector:.

— Paul Brookshaw <jiggy9@hotmail.co.uk> wrote:

Vector Bless you my friend,
I dissed you before my fiend and
would
like to apologize for being so intense. It was the only way I could
get the
Strength to beat my enemies. I prayed for many years to get the
strength to
kick my own ass. GOD IS GOOD ALL THE TIME. MY Fridge is full of Sea
food my
cupboards full of fruit my freezer full of meat. My house full of
plants and
my heart is full of compassion. I wonder why Preston did not answer
me
lolol. Mus be a real bitch to not be able to control ones cravings.
lolol
Vector i am as clean as i can get for this day. Yesterday i only took
1.2 mg
of Diazepam. Going to go without now and let my body do the talking.
You
know where I have come from mate, that is for sure.
God has set a burning Fire in my Spirit and woe betide the Man who
wishes to
put me back in the Dark 🙂
I have been in the wilderness for well over 7 months now. Sleep
seldom only
out of exhaustion.
Vector, you can tear down the Governments and you can Tear down the
Police,
But you will not find release, unless you believe in God. They can
take your
freedom and take your life, but they can’t have my Spirit, cos Iboga
has
taught me that,. I have the right to stand up for what I believe.
That isn’t
very different to what any of us really want, it is just the little
thing
called FEAR that we put into the Equation that messes us up. If we
believe
it it is real, scenario.
Bless you my friend and I pray you can forgive me for the disrespect
I gave
you a couple of Months back. I have learnt to forgive
myself;:”’///!!!~’
Heart felt Brotherly Love
and
Grace be with you this day Vector:)
Bless Paul!!!
Strength, Power and Honour, shall lead you to respect yourself and
then the
fruits of the Kingdom, GOD shall give unto you out of your obedience
and
self control and all your needs shall be fulfilled. No want. Just
fulfill
your desires and allow God to fill your need. There is no want.
Patience is
a Virtue I am learning quickly.
Have a good Day now.
Yashawa’ Casara’ Bushan ‘ Shalom Cussara’ Peace bothers, Love and
Grace.

From: Vector Vector <vector620022002@yahoo.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] For Preston:’~///Pray Read mate!!!
Date: Fri, 7 Apr 2006 12:27:45 -0700 (PDT)

Paul it’s not that I agree or disagree with you, I have no idea what
you’re talking about because I haven’t read all the messages in the
thread you’re going off on.

I wanted to say, I loved your letter and the one before it. Whether
you
ever get off drugs or not, you should think about writing religious
tracts or becoming a televangelist on a hellfire and damnation
channel,
you’re f**king great!

.:vector:.

— Paul Brookshaw <jiggy9@hotmail.co.uk> wrote:

Hello Preston,
Sorry to intrude mate, but i feel i have to put
you

straight on a few points.
The Lady Callie you gave the advice to. I feel you where wrong.
Let
me
explain.
The point of Iboga is so that a Man may experience his Feminine
senses and
the Lady the Masculine senses. At the end of the day we are all
individuals.
To not tell people the truth or expose them in public is sinful.
You
should
know from your previous experience, that most of the crap of
giving
up
METHADONE AND SCAG AND MORPHINE, is FEAR.!!!
People look to you for advice cos you took IBOGA. Well mate, you
don’t seem
to realise that you have hurt people that only wanted to help you
and
by
telling people not to STOP METHADONE or not to take IBOGA is only
your
ARROGANCE talking.
You couldn’t have it for yourself, so you trashed it. Absolutely
Brilliant
strategy mate. How come you didn’t think twice before putting
your
brain in
gear?
So you have it all sussed Eh?
How are you doing with the DEATH WEED lolol
You wasted your money mate.
From what I have read you took HCL Before, but didn’t make it.
This is my point.
If you didn’t make it, then how can you give advice to others who
are
Scared
silly of giving up.
You haven’t given up yourself. OK
If the Lady feels she is strong enough to, FLUSHIT, then that
would
be her
decision.
You should of put her heart at ease, and gave her Peace. Then she
maybe
would have sort to look towards her body, talking to her, other
than
her
head. Your head seems to be doing all the talking. What happened
to
your
Bhakti, plus Raja. You need to take control of your own life and
stop

telling others how to live theirs. Maybe it is a Career thing
with
you. Cos
at the end of the day you are still the same addict, you just get
your kicks
in a different way.
I pray you see bro.
To the left hand side Stands Anger and Arrogance with Pride in
the
middle.
To the right stands, Love Compassion and Peace.
You have to learn that the Pride in the middle is headless, or
head
strong.
It acts without you thinking.
You must learn to cut yourself off from this Chaos and only look
to
the
fruits of life.
Love conquers FEAR and EGO and Pride, but if you persist in being
head
strong you will fail.
Just as Jonah felt after the King made it a public decree, not
too
eat any
meat or herb of the field, also all the animals as well for forty
days and
no water. You have just done the same as the King of Nineveh’.
Broke
the
will of GOD.  GET it Sorted mate. Give up the fight. Warfare for
warfare
sake is an utter waste of time and energy. OK
IF you really want to be a child of the light and really step
into
the
Kingdom of light, give up the Tobacco.
You carry a spirit of deception my friend, like a black Feline
Cat.
With two
watch towers and two lights looking in two directions at the same
time.
The best of all you could ever want to be is an Centennial
Spider.
One step
ahead of the rest. 8 Legs and 8 eyes, with seven senses. One step
ahead, cos
the spider has an eye for each leg, plus the seven sences of the
heart. The
8th sense is for Sentry Duty. The spider can sleep and watch at
the
same
time, but only looks in one direction at in any instant. The
Centennial
Spider is not infallible, cos mass force can over come it, but it
knows that
it is only a part of the whole scale of things.
Get it sorted please my friend, for why did you take the IBOGA in
the
first
place.
Ah just because you couldn’t handle the Bone Crushing Pain.
Understood. But
surely, you are no strange to pain, Pain of pleasure and Pains
Pain.
It is
only a state of mind.
Give up. OK
Sorry for the hassle and I pray you forgive me for the intrusion,
but
there
is just too much crap coming from you at this time. The truth
hurts,
I know,
but it will set you Free my friend, Free indeed.

Strength, Power and Honour shall lead you to Respect yourself.
Firstly be truthful with yourself. Then you will be able to be
truthful with
others and not transfer you pain to them. Bless you my
friend;’~///
Heartfelt love and compassion                     RESPECT Paul
:’/~’;)’

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From: Dana Beal <dana@phantom.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] Fwd: Gospel of Judas
Date: April 8, 2006 at 4:23:33 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

New gnostic gospel supports passover plot account, thereby buttressing the role of Grail contents with neuro-protective properties as a forensic explanation of what happened in the crucifixion and resurrection.

I now believe that ibogaine may actually have been one of the ingredients in the Grail mixture– because it makes the body  totally numb and able to take being pierced without pain or flinching, and because it’s been patented for ischemia, which is a kind of global stroke effect brought on during Crucifixion by gradual suffocation caused by the windpipe being cut off when the crucified would lean forward trying to rest. Other ingredients would have been some harmaline and possibly cannabis, but not ephedra, which would be unnecessary with the iboga.

If Egyptian mummies have been found with traces of cocaine and nicotine (from the Americas), they couldn’t have had that much trouble getting a bit of root-bark from the sub-Sahara. Iboga originates with the Pygmy, who supposedly had it before anyone else. Somewhere I heard or read (and maybe some one on the list can provide the citation.) that the Pygmy first had it in the Rift Valley, 20,000 years ago.

So the theory is that harmaline was involved in the initiation of the Persian Shah, iboga in the ordination of the Pharaoh. Christ claimed the mantel of both, of course.

Dana/cnw

Begin forwarded message:
From: “William T. Brennan” <wtb208@stern.nyu.edu>
Date: April 6, 2006 10:40:49 PM EDT
To: dana@phantom.com
Subject: Gospel of Judas

Hi Dana,

I hope all’s been well this week.

You may have heard by now, but the Gospel of Judas has recently surfaced. I’ve copied the NYT story below and have attached a translation of the gospel. The unquestionably gnostic thread running through it seems like it’s right up your alley.

Predictably, I’ve combed through it looking for potential mushroom references that line up with other more obvious gnostic mushroom references (Heinrich, 2002) and feel like I’ve found a few. Here they are with some notes:

“Often he did not appear to his disciples as himself, but he was found among them as a child.”

I would love to find out what Greek term was used for “child,” and to get into its etymology. I’m pretty sure that it’s in Greek mythology (note that this gospel was originally written in Greek) that mushrooms are often referred to in childish terms (e.g., the “little ones”). This line is especially suspect since the rest of the passage makes no reference to Jesus as a child.

One day he was with his disciples in Judea, and he found them gathered together and seated in pious observance. When he [approached] his disciples, [34] gathered >>together and seated and offering a prayer of thanksgiving over the bread, [he] laughed.
The disciples said to [him], “Master, why are you laughing at [our] prayer of
thanksgiving? We have done what is right.”
He answered and said to them, “I am not laughing at you. <You> are not doing this because of your own will but because it is through this that your god [will be] praised.”
They said, “Master, you are […] the son of our god.”
Jesus said to them, “How do you know me? Truly [I] say to you, no generation of the people that are among you will know me.”

“When Jesus observed their lack of [understanding, he said] to them, “Why has this agitation led you to anger? Your god who is within you and […]”

“Knowing that Judas was reflecting upon something that was exalted, Jesus said to him,
“Step away from the others and I shall tell you the mysteries of the kingdom.”

Jesus seems to be mocking their “bread eating” ritual by noting that it’s putting them in touch with a different god. Judas, on the other hand, gets favored and enters into “conversation” with Jesus because only he rightfully identifies him. As you know, different species of Amanitas look pretty similar, and even when you find the right (psychoactive) one, they’re notoriously hard to get a psychedelic trip out of. Maybe this difficulty is what’s contributing to their “praising of another god.”

“A great angel, the enlightened divine Self-Generated, emerged from the cloud.”

Self-generated? From the cloud? Self-generation is unavoidable for a Creator god, but this “great angel” was brought into being by a greater power. Why would the text run the risk of coming across as self-contradictory by dubbing him/her/it “self-created?” This odd, quasi-incorrect description of the angel sounds like a traditional mythic mushroom reference to me (i.e., no visible seed, springing up in the wake of clouds).

I’m skeptical myself, but it’s worth thinking about. In other news, the postering is going really well on Long Island, and I’ll be getting started on the NYU campus area soon as well (assuming no one else has hit it yet). I’ve got some more things to talk about, both related to the march and the Ibogaine book, so I’ll talk to you soon.

-Bill

Here’s the NYT story:

April 6, 2006
‘Gospel of Judas’ Surfaces After 1,700 Years
By JOHN NOBLE WILFORD and LAURIE GOODSTEIN

An early Christian manuscript, including the only known text of what
is known as the Gospel of Judas, has surfaced after 1,700 years. The
text gives new insights into the relationship of Jesus and the
disciple who betrayed him, scholars reported today. In this version,
Jesus asked Judas, as a close friend, to sell him out to the
authorities, telling Judas he will “exceed” the other disciples by
doing so.

Though some theologians have hypothesized this, scholars who have
studied the new-found text said, this is the first time an ancient
document defends the idea.

The discovery in the desert of Egypt of the leather-bound papyrus
manuscript, and now its translation, was announced by the National
Geographic Society at a news conference in Washington. The 26-page
Judas text is said to be a copy in Coptic, made around A. D. 300, of
the original Gospel of Judas, written in Greek the century before.

Terry Garcia, an executive vice president of the geographic society,
said the manuscript, or codex, is considered by scholars and
scientists to be the most significant ancient, nonbiblical text to be
found in the past 60 years.

“The codex has been authenticated as a genuine work of ancient
Christian apocryphal literature,” Mr. Garcia said, citing extensive
tests of radiocarbon dating, ink analysis and multispectral imaging
and studies of the script and linguistic style. The ink, for example,
was consistent with ink of that era, and there was no evidence of
multiple rewriting.

“This is absolutely typical of ancient Coptic manuscripts,” said
Stephen Emmel, professor of Coptic studies at the University of
Munster in Germany. “I am completely convinced.”

The most revealing passages in the Judas manuscript begins, “The
secret account of the revelation that Jesus spoke in conversation
with Judas Iscariot during a week, three days before he celebrated
Passover.”

The account goes on to relate that Jesus refers to the other
disciples, telling Judas “you will exceed all of them. For you will
sacrifice the man that clothes me.” By that, scholars familiar with
Gnostic thinking said, Jesus meant that by helping him get rid of his
physical flesh, Judas will act to liberate the true spiritual self or
divine being within Jesus.

Unlike the accounts in the New Testament Gospels of Matthew, Mark,
Luke and John, the anonymous author of the Gospel of Judas believed
that Judas Iscariot alone among the 12 disciples understood the
meaning of Jesus’ teachings and acceded to his will. In the diversity
of early Christian thought, a group known as Gnostics believed in a
secret knowledge of how people could escape the prisons of their
material bodies and return to the spiritual realm from which they came.

Elaine Pagels, a professor of religion at Princeton who specializes
in studies of the Gnostics, said in a statement, “These discoveries
are exploding the myth of a monolithic religion, and demonstrating
how diverse — and fascinating — the early Christian movement really
was.”

The Gospel of Judas is only one of many texts discovered in the last
65 years, including the gospels of Thomas, Mary Magdalene and Philip,
believed to be written by Gnostics.

The Gnostics’ beliefs were often viewed by bishops and early church
leaders as unorthodox, and they were frequently denounced as
heretics. The discoveries of Gnostic texts have shaken up Biblical
scholarship by revealing the diversity of beliefs and practices among
early followers of Jesus.

As the findings have trickled down to churches and universities, they
have produced a new generation of Christians who now regard the Bible
not as the literal word of God, but as a product of historical and
political forces that determined which texts should be included in
the canon, and which edited out.

For that reason, the discoveries have proved deeply troubling for
many believers. The Gospel of Judas portrays Judas Iscariot not as a
betrayer of Jesus, but as his most favored disciple and willing
collaborator.

Scholars say that they have long been on the lookout for the Gospel
of Judas because of a reference to what was probably an early version
of it in a text called Against Heresies, written by Irenaeus, the
bishop of Lyons, about the year 180.

Irenaeus was a hunter of heretics, and no friend of the Gnostics. He
wrote, “They produce a fictitious history of this kind, which they
style the Gospel of Judas.”

Karen L. King, a professor of the history of early Christianity at
Harvard Divinity School, and an expert in Gnosticism who has not yet
read the manuscript released today, said that the Gospel of Judas may
well reflect the kinds of debates that arose in the second and third
century among Christians.

“You can see how early Christians could say, if Jesus’s death was all
part of God’s plan, then Judas’s betrayal was part of God’s plan,”
said Ms. King, the author of several books on the Gospel of Mary. “So
what does that make Judas? Is he the betrayer, or the facilitator of
salvation, the guy who makes the crucifixion possible?”

At least one scholar said the new manuscript does not contain
anything dramatic that would change or undermine traditional
understanding of the Bible. James M. Robinson, a retired professor of
Coptic studies at Claremont Graduate University, was the general
editor of the English edition of the Nag Hammadi library, a
collection of Gnostic documents discovered in Egypt in 1945.

“Correctly understood, there’s nothing undermining about the Gospel
of Judas,” Mr. Robinson said in a telephone interview. He said that
the New Testament gospels of John and Mark both contain passages that
suggest that Jesus not only picked Judas to betray him, but actually
encouraged Judas to hand him over to those he knew would crucify him.

Mr. Robinson’s book, “The Secrets of Judas: The Story of the
Misunderstood Disciple and his Lost Gospel” (Harper San Francisco,
April 2006), predicts the contents of the Gospel of Judas based on
his knowledge of Gnostic and Coptic texts, even though he was not
part of the team of researchers working on the document.

The Egyptian copy of the gospel was written on 13 sheets of papyrus,
both front and back, and found in a multitude of brittle fragments.

Rudolphe Kasser, a Swiss scholar of Coptic studies, directed the team
that reconstructed and translated the script. The effort, organized
by the National Geographic, was supported by Maecenas Foundation for
Ancient Art, in Basel, Switzerland, and the Waitt Institute for
Historical Discovery, an American nonprofit organization for the
application of technology in historical and scientific projects.

The entire 66-page codex also contains a text titled James (also
known as First Apocalypse of James), a letter by Peter and a text of
what scholars are provisionally calling Book of Allogenes.

Discovered in the 1970’s in a cavern near El Minya, Egypt, the
document circulated for years among antiquities dealers in Egypt,
then Europe and finally in the United States. It moldered in a safe-
deposit box at a bank in Hicksville, N. Y., for 16 years before being
bought in 2000 by a Zurich dealer, Frieda Nussberger-Tchacos. The
manuscript was given the name Codex Tchacos.

When attempts to resell the codex failed, Ms. Nussberger-Tchacos
turned it over to the Maecenas Foundation for conservation and
translation.

Mr. Robinson said that an Egyptian antiquities dealer offered to sell
him the document in 1983 for $3 million, but that he could not raise
the money. He criticized the scholars now associated with the
project, some of whom are his former students, because he said they
violated an agreement made years ago by Coptic scholars that new
discoveries should be made accessible to all qualified scholars.

The manuscript will ultimately be returned to Egypt, where it was
discovered, and housed in the Coptic Museum in Cairo.

Ted Waitt, the founder and former chief executive of Gateway, said
that his foundation, the Waitt Institute for Historical Discovery,
gave the National Geographic Society a grant of more than $1 million
to restore and preserve the manuscript and make it available to the
public.

” I didn’t know a whole lot until I got into this about the early
days of Christianity. It was just extremely fascinating to me,” Mr.
Waitt said in a telephone interview. He said he had no motivation
other than being fascinated by the finding. He said that after the
document was carbon dated and the ink tested, procedures his
foundation paid for, he had no question about its authenticity. “You
can potentially question the translation and the interpretation, he
said, but you can’t fake something like this. It would be impossible.”

From: marko <marko@phantom.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] for sara /
Date: April 8, 2006 at 12:32:05 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Funny, the bible (at least Jesus’ life) was written at least 50 years after his death, some parts even more than 100 years later.

It’s good that at least some US govmnt agencies write what’s going on right now, so reliable <LOL!!> data will be available centuries from now, when the whole known space/time will be IBOgainised =)

Hey, kids will learn about us in school:
Missionaires had to leave Divided States of America, and they settled in neighbouring countries and people were coming to Them to get IBOgainised. And Holly Patrick opened the gate in Cyberspace and people rushed through them to meet in Cyberspace, for the Evil Government could not follow them there. Only a handful of true believers stayed in Divided States of America, and were preparing ground for Good Times when IBOgainising people will be legal there by The Law. And such time came, and they were prepared…

Marko

pascall roland wrote:

Hi Sara,

thks for info.

did you know that Al Bukhari, to whom the evangelist sam shamoun refers to, did collect data on mohammad abt. 200 years after mohammad’s death. The whole sunni tradition is built up the same way, means it started to be written down centuries after the events it was supposed to study.
shamoun could have mentioned that.

Since at mohammad’s times, most traditions were transmitted orally, I wonder what scholars like al bukhari could have gathered – 2oo years later –  and whether those collected data were really reliable and had not been altered!

even the qoran was written down a long time after mohammad’s death. what guarantees do we have the text is 100% correct?

personally I believe it is not sufficient, and even erroneous, when someone aims to get an objective idea abt a keyfigure like mohammad, by reading sam shamoun or al bukhari.

that’s why I asked you for bibliography references,

love

roland

From: “Sara Glatt” <sara119@xs4all.nl>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] for Pascal,
Date: Fri, 7 Apr 2006 14:20:56 +0200 (CEST)

Hi pascal,

here you can find lots of info. about muhammad,

http://www.answering-islam.org/Shamoun/prepubescent.htm

Sara

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From: “Paul Brookshaw” <jiggy9@hotmail.co.uk>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] For Vector!!!~”’;:)
Date: April 8, 2006 at 10:21:36 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Vector Bless you my friend,
I dissed you before my fiend and would like to apologize for being so intense. It was the only way I could get the Strength to beat my enemies. I prayed for many years to get the strength to kick my own ass. GOD IS GOOD ALL THE TIME. MY Fridge is full of Sea food my cupboards full of fruit my freezer full of meat. My house full of plants and my heart is full of compassion. I wonder why Preston did not answer me lolol. Mus be a real bitch to not be able to control ones cravings. lolol
Vector i am as clean as i can get for this day. Yesterday i only took 1.2 mg of Diazepam. Going to go without now and let my body do the talking. You know where I have come from mate, that is for sure.
God has set a burning Fire in my Spirit and woe betide the Man who wishes to put me back in the Dark 🙂
I have been in the wilderness for well over 7 months now. Sleep seldom only out of exhaustion.
Vector, you can tear down the Governments and you can Tear down the Police, But you will not find release, unless you believe in God. They can take your freedom and take your life, but they can’t have my Spirit, cos Iboga has taught me that,. I have the right to stand up for what I believe. That isn’t very different to what any of us really want, it is just the little thing called FEAR that we put into the Equation that messes us up. If we believe it it is real, scenario.
Bless you my friend and I pray you can forgive me for the disrespect I gave you a couple of Months back. I have learnt to forgive myself;:”’///!!!~’
Heart felt Brotherly Love and Grace be with you this day Vector:)
Bless Paul!!!
Strength, Power and Honour, shall lead you to respect yourself and then the fruits of the Kingdom, GOD shall give unto you out of your obedience and self control and all your needs shall be fulfilled. No want. Just fulfill your desires and allow God to fill your need. There is no want. Patience is a Virtue I am learning quickly.
Have a good Day now.
Yashawa’ Casara’ Bushan ‘ Shalom Cussara’ Peace bothers, Love and Grace.

From: Vector Vector <vector620022002@yahoo.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] For Preston:’~///Pray Read mate!!!
Date: Fri, 7 Apr 2006 12:27:45 -0700 (PDT)

Paul it’s not that I agree or disagree with you, I have no idea what
you’re talking about because I haven’t read all the messages in the
thread you’re going off on.

I wanted to say, I loved your letter and the one before it. Whether you
ever get off drugs or not, you should think about writing religious
tracts or becoming a televangelist on a hellfire and damnation channel,
you’re f**king great!

.:vector:.

— Paul Brookshaw <jiggy9@hotmail.co.uk> wrote:

> Hello Preston,
>                   Sorry to intrude mate, but i feel i have to put you
>
> straight on a few points.
> The Lady Callie you gave the advice to. I feel you where wrong. Let
> me
> explain.
> The point of Iboga is so that a Man may experience his Feminine
> senses and
> the Lady the Masculine senses. At the end of the day we are all
> individuals.
> To not tell people the truth or expose them in public is sinful. You
> should
> know from your previous experience, that most of the crap of giving
> up
> METHADONE AND SCAG AND MORPHINE, is FEAR.!!!
> People look to you for advice cos you took IBOGA. Well mate, you
> don’t seem
> to realise that you have hurt people that only wanted to help you and
> by
> telling people not to STOP METHADONE or not to take IBOGA is only
> your
> ARROGANCE talking.
> You couldn’t have it for yourself, so you trashed it. Absolutely
> Brilliant
> strategy mate. How come you didn’t think twice before putting your
> brain in
> gear?
> So you have it all sussed Eh?
> How are you doing with the DEATH WEED lolol
> You wasted your money mate.
> From what I have read you took HCL Before, but didn’t make it.
> This is my point.
> If you didn’t make it, then how can you give advice to others who are
> Scared
> silly of giving up.
> You haven’t given up yourself. OK
> If the Lady feels she is strong enough to, FLUSHIT, then that would
> be her
> decision.
> You should of put her heart at ease, and gave her Peace. Then she
> maybe
> would have sort to look towards her body, talking to her, other than
> her
> head. Your head seems to be doing all the talking. What happened to
> your
> Bhakti, plus Raja. You need to take control of your own life and stop
>
> telling others how to live theirs. Maybe it is a Career thing with
> you. Cos
> at the end of the day you are still the same addict, you just get
> your kicks
> in a different way.
> I pray you see bro.
> To the left hand side Stands Anger and Arrogance with Pride in the
> middle.
> To the right stands, Love Compassion and Peace.
> You have to learn that the Pride in the middle is headless, or head
> strong.
> It acts without you thinking.
> You must learn to cut yourself off from this Chaos and only look to
> the
> fruits of life.
> Love conquers FEAR and EGO and Pride, but if you persist in being
> head
> strong you will fail.
> Just as Jonah felt after the King made it a public decree, not too
> eat any
> meat or herb of the field, also all the animals as well for forty
> days and
> no water. You have just done the same as the King of Nineveh’. Broke
> the
> will of GOD.  GET it Sorted mate. Give up the fight. Warfare for
> warfare
> sake is an utter waste of time and energy. OK
> IF you really want to be a child of the light and really step into
> the
> Kingdom of light, give up the Tobacco.
> You carry a spirit of deception my friend, like a black Feline Cat.
> With two
> watch towers and two lights looking in two directions at the same
> time.
> The best of all you could ever want to be is an Centennial Spider.
> One step
> ahead of the rest. 8 Legs and 8 eyes, with seven senses. One step
> ahead, cos
> the spider has an eye for each leg, plus the seven sences of the
> heart. The
> 8th sense is for Sentry Duty. The spider can sleep and watch at the
> same
> time, but only looks in one direction at in any instant. The
> Centennial
> Spider is not infallible, cos mass force can over come it, but it
> knows that
> it is only a part of the whole scale of things.
> Get it sorted please my friend, for why did you take the IBOGA in the
> first
> place.
> Ah just because you couldn’t handle the Bone Crushing Pain.
> Understood. But
> surely, you are no strange to pain, Pain of pleasure and Pains Pain.
> It is
> only a state of mind.
> Give up. OK
> Sorry for the hassle and I pray you forgive me for the intrusion, but
> there
> is just too much crap coming from you at this time. The truth hurts,
> I know,
> but it will set you Free my friend, Free indeed.
>
> Strength, Power and Honour shall lead you to Respect yourself.
> Firstly be truthful with yourself. Then you will be able to be
> truthful with
> others and not transfer you pain to them. Bless you my friend;’~///
> Heartfelt love and compassion                     RESPECT Paul
> :’/~’;)’
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> The new MSN Search Toolbar now includes Desktop search!
> http://join.msn.com/toolbar/overview
>
>
>
>
>
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From: “pascall roland” <pascal-roland@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] for sara /
Date: April 8, 2006 at 4:28:53 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Sara,

thks for info.

did you know that Al Bukhari, to whom the evangelist sam shamoun refers to, did collect data on mohammad abt. 200 years after mohammad’s death. The whole sunni tradition is built up the same way, means it started to be written down centuries after the events it was supposed to study.
shamoun could have mentioned that.

Since at mohammad’s times, most traditions were transmitted orally, I wonder what scholars like al bukhari could have gathered – 2oo years later –  and whether those collected data were really reliable and had not been altered!

even the qoran was written down a long time after mohammad’s death. what guarantees do we have the text is 100% correct?

personally I believe it is not sufficient, and even erroneous, when someone aims to get an objective idea abt a keyfigure like mohammad, by reading sam shamoun or al bukhari.

that’s why I asked you for bibliography references,

love

roland

From: “Sara Glatt” <sara119@xs4all.nl>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] for Pascal,
Date: Fri, 7 Apr 2006 14:20:56 +0200 (CEST)

Hi pascal,

here you can find lots of info. about muhammad,

http://www.answering-islam.org/Shamoun/prepubescent.htm

Sara

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From: Kirk <captkirk@clear.net.nz>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Needs Need, Must must. There is no want in the Kingdom!!!
Date: April 8, 2006 at 1:51:33 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I am God.

—–Original Message—–
From: Billy J [mailto:billjohnson6@sympatico.ca]
Sent: Saturday, 8 April 2006 5:09 p.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Needs Need, Must must. There is no want in the
Kingdom!!!

No wants in the Kingdom Is correct,
Yet remember that the path is narrow,
and I am getting off the wide path once again-

God is good and I know we all believe here, cause it requires faith in
something we can’t see or totaly understand-
Like Wow A guy takes a trip to Africa- Messed up on Dope, Takes some other
drug, probably just for the Buzz and or experiance, and Voila- he has found
Ibogaine-
Or was Mr.Lotsofs steps ordered of ??? The Lord- Call it Fate, or Whatever
you choose, But if all the testimonies are true I personally call it a
MIRACLE-
Don’t ya dare take offense for me mentioning that God is is Control- when we

Let Him.

Good Night Ya All

Bill

—-Original Message Follows—-
From: “Paul Brookshaw” <jiggy9@hotmail.co.uk>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] Needs Need, Must must. There is no want in the
Kingdom!!!
Date: Thu, 06 Apr 2006 10:39:27 +0100
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Hi folks,
Just thought I’d add my 6 eggs to this dreaded equation of
Addiction.
Hi bro,
You know the answers people. Give up. Take it very easy on the
Benzos though cos they are a reall bitch. I pray that you find the strenght
my friends, cos i know you know. So what you have to do is take the time and

give up.
But you must prepare. You need to be healthy. Start by coming down a bit on
the gear. I know it hurts, but we are not strangers to pain. I just got sick

of the pain of pleasure and the pain of pains pain. Broken needle in my
purple vein and all that shit. You all know, you can totally hit number one
with the bullet but totally miss the mark. You got to take time for you cos
self love is not selfish. I got to fix my freaking key bourd as I have
mashed out the keys JPR. My head blew when i realised what I done. Do you
read the bible. If not do it. Use the tools available, look after yourself.
I know you require your job for sustanance, but you have to consider your
health comes first. You can only be as good in your work as much as you can
put on bourd that is clean and healthy. You are what you eat and take. The
despare you feel is natural as you want out but do not give yourself time to

recover.
I still hurt, but am getting stronger. The Iboga brings out the femanine
side of you and makes you care for yourself. As long as you don’t use after,

you will recover, how long that is anyones guess. We are all different. We
have to learn to break our mind sets, and stomp the world for what it is.
You can tare down all the Governments and you can tare down the police, but
you still won’t find release, unless you believe in God.
You have been given a thorn in your side a messenger of Satan, that you may
not be exhaulted above messure by the abundance of revalations.
I see you want to get out but you are the one that is not letting yourself
go.
Take this onbourd people, friends and brothers and sisters and pray it all
the time in times of trouble and strife.
GOD, GRANT ME THE SERENITY TO ACCEPT THE THINGS I CANNOT CHANGE. CHANGE THE
THINGS I CAN, AND LORD GIVE ME THE WISDOM TO KNOW THE DIFFERENCE. Rome was
not built in a day, so you cannot expect to get there in one day. Maybe not
even in one life time, either. this a pure spiritual walk. Mans mind is
stupid as he leans to switch off the feelings he does not like with Opiates
and Downers and Alcahol then has to change the set with uppers to stay
awake. No wonder you feel so out of sink. lololol
Look  and take good stock of what you really have in your life. Praise GOD
for what you already have and do not look to what you do not,. Vain
imaginings. You know, cos you wouldn’t of wrote other wise. The truth is a
real bitch to hanndle, but in the end it all sots itself out. The truth
shall set you free, you only have to learn to forgive yourself for all the
self destruction. Be good to yourself and stay cool, take it easy and eat
good food and drink the water.
Create fo yourself yourr own Garden of eaden.

Strength, Power and Honour shall lead you to respect yourself. Love and
Peace.
Paul:)/~’

Remeber Selah’            I am a MAN!!!
GOD is GOOD, ALL THE  TIME. Blessings from Norwich England.

_________________________________________________________________
Be the first to hear what’s new at MSN – sign up to our free newsletters!
http://www.msn.co.uk/newsletters

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From: “Billy J” <billjohnson6@sympatico.ca>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Needs Need, Must must. There is no want in the Kingdom!!!
Date: April 8, 2006 at 1:08:49 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

No wants in the Kingdom Is correct,
Yet remember that the path is narrow,
and I am getting off the wide path once again-

God is good and I know we all believe here, cause it requires faith in something we can’t see or totaly understand-
Like Wow A guy takes a trip to Africa- Messed up on Dope, Takes some other drug, probably just for the Buzz and or experiance, and Voila- he has found Ibogaine-
Or was Mr.Lotsofs steps ordered of ??? The Lord- Call it Fate, or Whatever you choose, But if all the testimonies are true I personally call it a MIRACLE-
Don’t ya dare take offense for me mentioning that God is is Control- when we Let Him.

Good Night Ya All

Bill

—-Original Message Follows—-
From: “Paul Brookshaw” <jiggy9@hotmail.co.uk>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] Needs Need, Must must. There is no want in the Kingdom!!!
Date: Thu, 06 Apr 2006 10:39:27 +0100
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Hi folks,
Just thought I’d add my 6 eggs to this dreaded equation of Addiction.
Hi bro,
You know the answers people. Give up. Take it very easy on the Benzos though cos they are a reall bitch. I pray that you find the strenght my friends, cos i know you know. So what you have to do is take the time and give up.
But you must prepare. You need to be healthy. Start by coming down a bit on the gear. I know it hurts, but we are not strangers to pain. I just got sick of the pain of pleasure and the pain of pains pain. Broken needle in my purple vein and all that shit. You all know, you can totally hit number one with the bullet but totally miss the mark. You got to take time for you cos self love is not selfish. I got to fix my freaking key bourd as I have mashed out the keys JPR. My head blew when i realised what I done. Do you read the bible. If not do it. Use the tools available, look after yourself.
I know you require your job for sustanance, but you have to consider your health comes first. You can only be as good in your work as much as you can put on bourd that is clean and healthy. You are what you eat and take. The despare you feel is natural as you want out but do not give yourself time to recover.
I still hurt, but am getting stronger. The Iboga brings out the femanine side of you and makes you care for yourself. As long as you don’t use after, you will recover, how long that is anyones guess. We are all different. We have to learn to break our mind sets, and stomp the world for what it is. You can tare down all the Governments and you can tare down the police, but you still won’t find release, unless you believe in God.
You have been given a thorn in your side a messenger of Satan, that you may not be exhaulted above messure by the abundance of revalations.
I see you want to get out but you are the one that is not letting yourself go.
Take this onbourd people, friends and brothers and sisters and pray it all the time in times of trouble and strife.
GOD, GRANT ME THE SERENITY TO ACCEPT THE THINGS I CANNOT CHANGE. CHANGE THE THINGS I CAN, AND LORD GIVE ME THE WISDOM TO KNOW THE DIFFERENCE. Rome was not built in a day, so you cannot expect to get there in one day. Maybe not even in one life time, either. this a pure spiritual walk. Mans mind is stupid as he leans to switch off the feelings he does not like with Opiates and Downers and Alcahol then has to change the set with uppers to stay awake. No wonder you feel so out of sink. lololol
Look  and take good stock of what you really have in your life. Praise GOD for what you already have and do not look to what you do not,. Vain imaginings. You know, cos you wouldn’t of wrote other wise. The truth is a real bitch to hanndle, but in the end it all sots itself out. The truth shall set you free, you only have to learn to forgive yourself for all the self destruction. Be good to yourself and stay cool, take it easy and eat good food and drink the water.
Create fo yourself yourr own Garden of eaden.

Strength, Power and Honour shall lead you to respect yourself. Love and Peace.
Paul:)/~’         Remeber Selah’            I am a MAN!!!
GOD is GOOD, ALL THE  TIME. Blessings from Norwich England.

_________________________________________________________________
Be the first to hear what’s new at MSN – sign up to our free newsletters! http://www.msn.co.uk/newsletters

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From: “Billy J” <billjohnson6@sympatico.ca>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] For Preston:’~///Pray Read mate!!!
Date: April 8, 2006 at 12:57:00 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Sinful Like a black feline Cat?
A Man getting in touch with his feminine Side? A Woman Her Masculine??
You Guys (I think your Guys-Males, with a P_nis!) must be waaaayyyy out there and getting
much better meds than Me, Cause My Name Is Bill, and I come from over that there Hill, and My thrill
is still just in a pill, Yet I Like who I am and if I started thinking that I was perhaps a Part female,
I would just know that I had taken 1 or probably 2 or 3 tooo many.

Lots Of good stuff Here Today–

WAY TO GO BISCUITE BOY- oh ya You are the Man- Now What-

Please Keep the guard Up My friend, because that Piece of poop addiction is still doing pushups.

You are tougher today and when I have a year I want to be able to remember this day, That the man with the awsome Mom- Anne? right , was the first person I knew that made it through a year after Ibogaine– Oh I want to be The

Thank-You!

Billy

—-Original Message Follows—-
From: Kirk <captkirk@clear.net.nz>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] For Preston:’~///Pray Read mate!!!
Date: Sat, 08 Apr 2006 07:25:33 +1200
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The point of Iboga is so that a Man may experience his Feminine senses and
the Lady the Masculine senses. At the end of the day we are all individuals.
To not tell people the truth or expose them in public is sinful. You should
know from your previous experience, that most of the crap of giving up
METHADONE AND SCAG AND MORPHINE, is FEAR.!!!

Hi Paul
I have to disagree with your theory of man/fem woman/masculine that’s just
far too black and white my masculine side is way out of balance I needed to
experience my feminine side more….. thus apparently, according to some why
I have all this stuff manifesting on the right hand side.
As for giving up something that CAN have a stabilising effect for an
individual when they are not ready can be more harmful and set someone
back….I’m referring to methadone here…but then again it’s a different
scene here I had a good experience this time round on it.

I don’t have it all sussed, and I know you don’t either.  You feel a little
tunnel visioned……

OH well, Onward Thru the Fog!!!!!

With love n respect to all
Cappen koiky xxx


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From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] OT – Painted hands
Date: April 8, 2006 at 12:11:51 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com, tennvols00@hotmail.com, phinson96@yahoo.com, feeefeee5@yahoo.com, caustin1961@netzero.net, RAustin1980@aol.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Ezprezzo.com – Painted hands

I know, I know! I can’t help sending you to these cool links!
I live such an eventful life!

From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] OT-Horoscopes for Fundamentalist Christians, WARNING! MAY OFFEND SOME
Date: April 8, 2006 at 12:03:47 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Horoscopes for Fundamentalist Christians

hahahahahahahahahahaha!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
really good for a belly laugh!
Callie

From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] ot! Piled Cans Art
Date: April 7, 2006 at 11:59:45 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

This is really cool. Be sure to scroll down after page loads.
Callie

Uêba – Piled Cans Art

From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] OT- Life in the 1500’s
Date: April 7, 2006 at 5:11:57 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Folks, I do not know if this is factual but it makes sense to me! It is an entertaining read, even if it is not true!
Peace out, Callie
LIFE IN THE 1500’S

Most people got married in June, because they took their yearly bath in May and still smelled pretty good by June. However, they were starting to smell, so brides carried a bouquet of flowers to hide the body odor. Hence the custom today of carrying a bouquet when getting married.

Baths consisted of a big tub filled with hot water. The man of the house had the privilege of the nice clean water, then all the other sons and men, then the women and finally the children! Last of all the babies. By then the water was so dirty you could actually lose someone in it. Hence the saying, “Don’t throw the baby out with the bath
water.”

Houses had thatched roofs-thick straw-piled high, with no wood underneath. It was the only place for animals to get warm, so all the cats and other small animals (mice, bugs) lived in the roof. When it rained it became slippery and sometimes the animals would slip and fall off the roof.  Hence the saying “It’s raining cats and dogs.”

There was nothing to stop things from falling into the house.  This posed a real problem in the bedroom where bugs and other droppings could mess up your nice clean bed. Hence, a bed with big posts and a sheet hung over the top afforded some protection. That’s how canopy beds came into existence.

The floor was dirt. Only the wealthy had something other than dirt. Hence the saying “dirt poor.” The wealthy had slate floors that would get slippery in the winter when wet, so they spread thresh (straw) on floor to help keep their footing. As the winter wore on, they added more thresh until when you opened the door it would all start slipping outside. A piece of wood was placed in the entranceway.  Hence the saying a “thresh hold.”

(Getting quite an education, aren’t you?)

In those old days, they cooked in the kitchen with a big kettle that always hung over the fire. Every day they lit the fire and added things to the pot. They ate mostly vegetables and did not get much meat.  They would eat the stew for dinner, leaving leftovers in the pot to get cold overnight and then start over the next day. Sometimes stew had food in it that had been there for quite a while. Hence the rhyme, “Peas porridge hot, peas porridge cold, peas porridge in the pot nine days old.”

Sometimes they could obtain pork, which made them feel quite special. When visitors came over, they would hang up their bacon to show off. It was a sign of wealth that a man could “bring home the bacon.”  They would cut off a little to share with guests and would all sit around and “chew the fat.”

Those with money had plates made of pewter. Food with high acid content caused some of the lead to leach onto the food, causing lead poisoning death. This happened most often with tomatoes, so for the next 400 years or so, tomatoes were considered poisonous.

Bread was divided according to status. Workers got the burnt bottom of the loaf, the family got the middle, and guests got the top, or “upper crust.”

Lead cups were used to drink ale or whisky. The combination would sometimes knock the imbibers out for a couple of days. Someone walking along the road would take them for dead and prepare them for burial. They were laid out on the kitchen table for a couple of days and the family would gather around and eat and drink and wait and see if they would wake up.  Hence the custom of holding a “wake.”

England is old and small and the local folks started running out of places to bury people. So they would dig up coffins and would take the bones to a “bone-house” and reuse the grave. When reopening these coffins, 1 out of 25 coffins were found to have scratch marks on the inside and they realized they had been burying people alive. So they would tie a string on the wrist of the corpse, lead it through the coffin and up through the ground and tie it to a bell. Someone would have to sit out in the graveyard all night (the “graveyard shift”) to listen for the bell; thus, someone could be “saved by the bell” or was considered a “dead ringer.”

From: biscuitboy714@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] new research paper
Date: April 7, 2006 at 4:28:54 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Thank yu Howard. This stregthens my resolve to do another treatment sometime soon.             Randy

—–Original Message—–
From: HSLotsof@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Wed, 5 Apr 2006 15:13:58 EDT
Subject: [Ibogaine] new research paper

GDNF and Addiction
Dorit Ron and Patricia H. Janak
Reviews in the Neurosciences, 16,277-285 (2005)

See excerpt below.

GDNF MEDIATES THE DESIRABLE ACTIVITIES
OF THE ANTI-ADDICTION DRUG, IBOGAINE

If GDNF counteracts biochemical and behavioral
neuroadaptation to drugs of abuse, then it
could potentially be a useful drug target for antiaddiction
medication development. Support for this
possibility stems from a recent study in which we
found that the anti-addiction drug ibogaine reduces
alcohol consumption via activation of the GDNF
pathway 1351.
For the past 30 years, ibogaine, a natural
alkaloid found in the root bark of the African shrub
Tabernanthe iboga, has attracted interest for its
purported efficacy in reversing addiction to
multiple drugs of abuse including alcohol /27,49,
6 11. Anecdotal reports of effects in humans indicate
that ibogaine reduces craving and withdrawal
, symptoms 12,731. Animal studies also suggest that
ibogaine attenuates drug- and alcohol-induced
behaviors. For example, ibogaine reduces heroin
operant self-administration 1161, and naloxoneprecipitated
withdrawal in morphine-dependent rats
I1 1,281. Ibogaine also decreases cocaine-induced
locomotor activity and self-administration in rats
I101 and mice 170,711. Similar results have been
reported for ibogaine’s activities on alcohol intake
in a two-bottle choice paradigm 135,631. We
showed that systemic administration of ibogaine
reduces operant self-administration of alcohol in
rats 13.51, as well as the binge drinking that occurs
after a period of abstinence, demonstrating ibogaine’s
efficacy in a relapse model 1351. Importantly,
we found that the VTA is a site of action for
ibogaine’s reduction of alcohol self-administration,
and that a concentration of ibogaine that decreases
alcohol consumption also increases GDNF expression
in the midbrain of rodents 1351. We therefore
tested whether GDNF mediates the activities of
ibogaine, first in cells in culture, and then in vivo.
We used the DAergic-like SHSYSY cell line to
demonstrate that ibogaine exposure results in
increased expression of GDNF and increased
activation of the GDNF signaling cascade via the
activation of the Ret receptor 1351. Finally, we
showed that delivery of inhibitory antibodies
against GDNF into the VTA attenuated ibogaine’s
decrease of alcohol operant self-administration in
rats 1351. Because it is known that GDNF can alter
the VTA-dependent biochemical and behavioral
effects of cocaine and morphine (see above), the
evidence as a whole suggests that ibogaine reduces
self-administration of multiple drugs of abuse via
GDNF.
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From: Kirk <captkirk@clear.net.nz>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] For Preston:’~///Pray Read mate!!!
Date: April 7, 2006 at 3:41:24 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

OMG Vector that’s so spooky, I had the exact same image in my head!!
Urh, no offence intended Paul…..
CK

.:vector:.wrote
I wanted to say, I loved your letter and the one before it. Whether you
ever get off drugs or not, you should think about writing religious
tracts or becoming a televangelist on a hellfire and damnation channel,
you’re f**king great!

— Paul Brookshaw <jiggy9@hotmail.co.uk> wrote:

Hello Preston,
Sorry to intrude mate, but i feel i have to put you

straight on a few points.
The Lady Callie you gave the advice to. I feel you where wrong. Let
me
explain.
The point of Iboga is so that a Man may experience his Feminine
senses and
the Lady the Masculine senses. At the end of the day we are all
individuals.
To not tell people the truth or expose them in public is sinful. You
should
know from your previous experience, that most of the crap of giving
up
METHADONE AND SCAG AND MORPHINE, is FEAR.!!!
People look to you for advice cos you took IBOGA. Well mate, you
don’t seem
to realise that you have hurt people that only wanted to help you and
by
telling people not to STOP METHADONE or not to take IBOGA is only
your
ARROGANCE talking.
You couldn’t have it for yourself, so you trashed it. Absolutely
Brilliant
strategy mate. How come you didn’t think twice before putting your
brain in
gear?
So you have it all sussed Eh?
How are you doing with the DEATH WEED lolol
You wasted your money mate.
From what I have read you took HCL Before, but didn’t make it.
This is my point.
If you didn’t make it, then how can you give advice to others who are
Scared
silly of giving up.
You haven’t given up yourself. OK
If the Lady feels she is strong enough to, FLUSHIT, then that would
be her
decision.
You should of put her heart at ease, and gave her Peace. Then she
maybe
would have sort to look towards her body, talking to her, other than
her
head. Your head seems to be doing all the talking. What happened to
your
Bhakti, plus Raja. You need to take control of your own life and stop

telling others how to live theirs. Maybe it is a Career thing with
you. Cos
at the end of the day you are still the same addict, you just get
your kicks
in a different way.
I pray you see bro.
To the left hand side Stands Anger and Arrogance with Pride in the
middle.
To the right stands, Love Compassion and Peace.
You have to learn that the Pride in the middle is headless, or head
strong.
It acts without you thinking.
You must learn to cut yourself off from this Chaos and only look to
the
fruits of life.
Love conquers FEAR and EGO and Pride, but if you persist in being
head
strong you will fail.
Just as Jonah felt after the King made it a public decree, not too
eat any
meat or herb of the field, also all the animals as well for forty
days and
no water. You have just done the same as the King of Nineveh’. Broke
the
will of GOD.  GET it Sorted mate. Give up the fight. Warfare for
warfare
sake is an utter waste of time and energy. OK
IF you really want to be a child of the light and really step into
the
Kingdom of light, give up the Tobacco.
You carry a spirit of deception my friend, like a black Feline Cat.
With two
watch towers and two lights looking in two directions at the same
time.
The best of all you could ever want to be is an Centennial Spider.
One step
ahead of the rest. 8 Legs and 8 eyes, with seven senses. One step
ahead, cos
the spider has an eye for each leg, plus the seven sences of the
heart. The
8th sense is for Sentry Duty. The spider can sleep and watch at the
same
time, but only looks in one direction at in any instant. The
Centennial
Spider is not infallible, cos mass force can over come it, but it
knows that
it is only a part of the whole scale of things.
Get it sorted please my friend, for why did you take the IBOGA in the
first
place.
Ah just because you couldn’t handle the Bone Crushing Pain.
Understood. But
surely, you are no strange to pain, Pain of pleasure and Pains Pain.
It is
only a state of mind.
Give up. OK
Sorry for the hassle and I pray you forgive me for the intrusion, but
there
is just too much crap coming from you at this time. The truth hurts,
I know,
but it will set you Free my friend, Free indeed.

Strength, Power and Honour shall lead you to Respect yourself.
Firstly be truthful with yourself. Then you will be able to be
truthful with
others and not transfer you pain to them. Bless you my friend;’~///
Heartfelt love and compassion                     RESPECT Paul
:’/~’;)’

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From: Vector Vector <vector620022002@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] For Preston:’~///Pray Read mate!!!
Date: April 7, 2006 at 3:27:45 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Paul it’s not that I agree or disagree with you, I have no idea what
you’re talking about because I haven’t read all the messages in the
thread you’re going off on.

I wanted to say, I loved your letter and the one before it. Whether you
ever get off drugs or not, you should think about writing religious
tracts or becoming a televangelist on a hellfire and damnation channel,
you’re f**king great!

.:vector:.

— Paul Brookshaw <jiggy9@hotmail.co.uk> wrote:

Hello Preston,
Sorry to intrude mate, but i feel i have to put you

straight on a few points.
The Lady Callie you gave the advice to. I feel you where wrong. Let
me
explain.
The point of Iboga is so that a Man may experience his Feminine
senses and
the Lady the Masculine senses. At the end of the day we are all
individuals.
To not tell people the truth or expose them in public is sinful. You
should
know from your previous experience, that most of the crap of giving
up
METHADONE AND SCAG AND MORPHINE, is FEAR.!!!
People look to you for advice cos you took IBOGA. Well mate, you
don’t seem
to realise that you have hurt people that only wanted to help you and
by
telling people not to STOP METHADONE or not to take IBOGA is only
your
ARROGANCE talking.
You couldn’t have it for yourself, so you trashed it. Absolutely
Brilliant
strategy mate. How come you didn’t think twice before putting your
brain in
gear?
So you have it all sussed Eh?
How are you doing with the DEATH WEED lolol
You wasted your money mate.
From what I have read you took HCL Before, but didn’t make it.
This is my point.
If you didn’t make it, then how can you give advice to others who are
Scared
silly of giving up.
You haven’t given up yourself. OK
If the Lady feels she is strong enough to, FLUSHIT, then that would
be her
decision.
You should of put her heart at ease, and gave her Peace. Then she
maybe
would have sort to look towards her body, talking to her, other than
her
head. Your head seems to be doing all the talking. What happened to
your
Bhakti, plus Raja. You need to take control of your own life and stop

telling others how to live theirs. Maybe it is a Career thing with
you. Cos
at the end of the day you are still the same addict, you just get
your kicks
in a different way.
I pray you see bro.
To the left hand side Stands Anger and Arrogance with Pride in the
middle.
To the right stands, Love Compassion and Peace.
You have to learn that the Pride in the middle is headless, or head
strong.
It acts without you thinking.
You must learn to cut yourself off from this Chaos and only look to
the
fruits of life.
Love conquers FEAR and EGO and Pride, but if you persist in being
head
strong you will fail.
Just as Jonah felt after the King made it a public decree, not too
eat any
meat or herb of the field, also all the animals as well for forty
days and
no water. You have just done the same as the King of Nineveh’. Broke
the
will of GOD.  GET it Sorted mate. Give up the fight. Warfare for
warfare
sake is an utter waste of time and energy. OK
IF you really want to be a child of the light and really step into
the
Kingdom of light, give up the Tobacco.
You carry a spirit of deception my friend, like a black Feline Cat.
With two
watch towers and two lights looking in two directions at the same
time.
The best of all you could ever want to be is an Centennial Spider.
One step
ahead of the rest. 8 Legs and 8 eyes, with seven senses. One step
ahead, cos
the spider has an eye for each leg, plus the seven sences of the
heart. The
8th sense is for Sentry Duty. The spider can sleep and watch at the
same
time, but only looks in one direction at in any instant. The
Centennial
Spider is not infallible, cos mass force can over come it, but it
knows that
it is only a part of the whole scale of things.
Get it sorted please my friend, for why did you take the IBOGA in the
first
place.
Ah just because you couldn’t handle the Bone Crushing Pain.
Understood. But
surely, you are no strange to pain, Pain of pleasure and Pains Pain.
It is
only a state of mind.
Give up. OK
Sorry for the hassle and I pray you forgive me for the intrusion, but
there
is just too much crap coming from you at this time. The truth hurts,
I know,
but it will set you Free my friend, Free indeed.

Strength, Power and Honour shall lead you to Respect yourself.
Firstly be truthful with yourself. Then you will be able to be
truthful with
others and not transfer you pain to them. Bless you my friend;’~///
Heartfelt love and compassion                     RESPECT Paul
:’/~’;)’

_________________________________________________________________
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From: Kirk <captkirk@clear.net.nz>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] For Preston:’~///Pray Read mate!!!
Date: April 7, 2006 at 3:25:33 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

The point of Iboga is so that a Man may experience his Feminine senses and
the Lady the Masculine senses. At the end of the day we are all individuals.
To not tell people the truth or expose them in public is sinful. You should
know from your previous experience, that most of the crap of giving up
METHADONE AND SCAG AND MORPHINE, is FEAR.!!!

Hi Paul
I have to disagree with your theory of man/fem woman/masculine that’s just
far too black and white my masculine side is way out of balance I needed to
experience my feminine side more….. thus apparently, according to some why
I have all this stuff manifesting on the right hand side.
As for giving up something that CAN have a stabilising effect for an
individual when they are not ready can be more harmful and set someone
back….I’m referring to methadone here…but then again it’s a different
scene here I had a good experience this time round on it.

I don’t have it all sussed, and I know you don’t either.  You feel a little
tunnel visioned……

OH well, Onward Thru the Fog!!!!!

With love n respect to all
Cappen koiky xxx


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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] For Preston:’~///Pray Read mate!!!
Date: April 7, 2006 at 3:00:40 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I won’t bother replying beyond saying “whatever works for you Paul, including judging me.” If that gets you through the worst of your recovery, by all means, lay it on me. I’m here, mate.
—–
“If God dropped acid, would he see people?”  ~Steven Wright

Peace,
Preston Peet
ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor Underground- the Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations, Astonishing Archaeology and Hidden History
Editor Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Columnist HighTimes mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —– From: “Paul Brookshaw” <jiggy9@hotmail.co.uk>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Friday, April 07, 2006 1:18 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] For Preston:’~///Pray Read mate!!!

Hello Preston,
Sorry to intrude mate, but i feel i have to put you straight on a few points.
The Lady Callie you gave the advice to. I feel you where wrong. Let me explain.
The point of Iboga is so that a Man may experience his Feminine senses and the Lady the Masculine senses. At the end of the day we are all individuals.
To not tell people the truth or expose them in public is sinful. You should know from your previous experience, that most of the crap of giving up METHADONE AND SCAG AND MORPHINE, is FEAR.!!!
People look to you for advice cos you took IBOGA. Well mate, you don’t seem to realise that you have hurt people that only wanted to help you and by telling people not to STOP METHADONE or not to take IBOGA is only your ARROGANCE talking.
You couldn’t have it for yourself, so you trashed it. Absolutely Brilliant strategy mate. How come you didn’t think twice before putting your brain in gear?
So you have it all sussed Eh?
How are you doing with the DEATH WEED lolol
You wasted your money mate.
From what I have read you took HCL Before, but didn’t make it.
This is my point.
If you didn’t make it, then how can you give advice to others who are Scared silly of giving up.
You haven’t given up yourself. OK
If the Lady feels she is strong enough to, FLUSHIT, then that would be her decision.
You should of put her heart at ease, and gave her Peace. Then she maybe would have sort to look towards her body, talking to her, other than her head. Your head seems to be doing all the talking. What happened to your Bhakti, plus Raja. You need to take control of your own life and stop telling others how to live theirs. Maybe it is a Career thing with you. Cos at the end of the day you are still the same addict, you just get your kicks in a different way.
I pray you see bro.
To the left hand side Stands Anger and Arrogance with Pride in the middle. To the right stands, Love Compassion and Peace.
You have to learn that the Pride in the middle is headless, or head strong. It acts without you thinking.
You must learn to cut yourself off from this Chaos and only look to the fruits of life.
Love conquers FEAR and EGO and Pride, but if you persist in being head strong you will fail.
Just as Jonah felt after the King made it a public decree, not too eat any meat or herb of the field, also all the animals as well for forty days and no water. You have just done the same as the King of Nineveh’. Broke the will of GOD.  GET it Sorted mate. Give up the fight. Warfare for warfare sake is an utter waste of time and energy. OK
IF you really want to be a child of the light and really step into the Kingdom of light, give up the Tobacco.
You carry a spirit of deception my friend, like a black Feline Cat. With two watch towers and two lights looking in two directions at the same time.
The best of all you could ever want to be is an Centennial Spider. One step ahead of the rest. 8 Legs and 8 eyes, with seven senses. One step ahead, cos the spider has an eye for each leg, plus the seven sences of the heart. The 8th sense is for Sentry Duty. The spider can sleep and watch at the same time, but only looks in one direction at in any instant. The Centennial Spider is not infallible, cos mass force can over come it, but it knows that it is only a part of the whole scale of things.
Get it sorted please my friend, for why did you take the IBOGA in the first place.
Ah just because you couldn’t handle the Bone Crushing Pain. Understood. But surely, you are no strange to pain, Pain of pleasure and Pains Pain. It is only a state of mind.
Give up. OK
Sorry for the hassle and I pray you forgive me for the intrusion, but there is just too much crap coming from you at this time. The truth hurts, I know, but it will set you Free my friend, Free indeed.

Strength, Power and Honour shall lead you to Respect yourself.
Firstly be truthful with yourself. Then you will be able to be truthful with others and not transfer you pain to them. Bless you my friend;’~///
Heartfelt love and compassion                     RESPECT Paul :’/~’;)’

_________________________________________________________________
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From: “Eye of the Bhogi” <freedomroot@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] this day a year ago…
Date: April 7, 2006 at 1:46:34 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

MC!  MC!  MC!
Congrats on a beautiful year, Marc!

love from qns, rachel

From: “Paul Brookshaw” <jiggy9@hotmail.co.uk>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] For Preston:’~///Pray Read mate!!!
Date: April 7, 2006 at 1:18:22 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hello Preston,
Sorry to intrude mate, but i feel i have to put you straight on a few points.
The Lady Callie you gave the advice to. I feel you where wrong. Let me explain.
The point of Iboga is so that a Man may experience his Feminine senses and the Lady the Masculine senses. At the end of the day we are all individuals.
To not tell people the truth or expose them in public is sinful. You should know from your previous experience, that most of the crap of giving up METHADONE AND SCAG AND MORPHINE, is FEAR.!!!
People look to you for advice cos you took IBOGA. Well mate, you don’t seem to realise that you have hurt people that only wanted to help you and by telling people not to STOP METHADONE or not to take IBOGA is only your ARROGANCE talking.
You couldn’t have it for yourself, so you trashed it. Absolutely Brilliant strategy mate. How come you didn’t think twice before putting your brain in gear?
So you have it all sussed Eh?
How are you doing with the DEATH WEED lolol
You wasted your money mate.
From what I have read you took HCL Before, but didn’t make it.
This is my point.
If you didn’t make it, then how can you give advice to others who are Scared silly of giving up.
You haven’t given up yourself. OK
If the Lady feels she is strong enough to, FLUSHIT, then that would be her decision.
You should of put her heart at ease, and gave her Peace. Then she maybe would have sort to look towards her body, talking to her, other than her head. Your head seems to be doing all the talking. What happened to your Bhakti, plus Raja. You need to take control of your own life and stop telling others how to live theirs. Maybe it is a Career thing with you. Cos at the end of the day you are still the same addict, you just get your kicks in a different way.
I pray you see bro.
To the left hand side Stands Anger and Arrogance with Pride in the middle. To the right stands, Love Compassion and Peace.
You have to learn that the Pride in the middle is headless, or head strong. It acts without you thinking.
You must learn to cut yourself off from this Chaos and only look to the fruits of life.
Love conquers FEAR and EGO and Pride, but if you persist in being head strong you will fail.
Just as Jonah felt after the King made it a public decree, not too eat any meat or herb of the field, also all the animals as well for forty days and no water. You have just done the same as the King of Nineveh’. Broke the will of GOD.  GET it Sorted mate. Give up the fight. Warfare for warfare sake is an utter waste of time and energy. OK
IF you really want to be a child of the light and really step into the Kingdom of light, give up the Tobacco.
You carry a spirit of deception my friend, like a black Feline Cat. With two watch towers and two lights looking in two directions at the same time.
The best of all you could ever want to be is an Centennial Spider. One step ahead of the rest. 8 Legs and 8 eyes, with seven senses. One step ahead, cos the spider has an eye for each leg, plus the seven sences of the heart. The 8th sense is for Sentry Duty. The spider can sleep and watch at the same time, but only looks in one direction at in any instant. The Centennial Spider is not infallible, cos mass force can over come it, but it knows that it is only a part of the whole scale of things.
Get it sorted please my friend, for why did you take the IBOGA in the first place.
Ah just because you couldn’t handle the Bone Crushing Pain. Understood. But surely, you are no strange to pain, Pain of pleasure and Pains Pain. It is only a state of mind.
Give up. OK
Sorry for the hassle and I pray you forgive me for the intrusion, but there is just too much crap coming from you at this time. The truth hurts, I know, but it will set you Free my friend, Free indeed.

Strength, Power and Honour shall lead you to Respect yourself.
Firstly be truthful with yourself. Then you will be able to be truthful with others and not transfer you pain to them. Bless you my friend;’~///
Heartfelt love and compassion                     RESPECT Paul :’/~’;)’

_________________________________________________________________
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From: shelley krupa <skrupa20022002@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] this day a year ago…
Date: April 7, 2006 at 8:49:56 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

hey mark , congratulations, awesome isnt it?!!love shell

CallieMimosa@aol.com wrote:
way to go!!! it is a miracle, huh?
callie

New Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. Call regular phones from your PC and save big.

From: Kirk <captkirk@clear.net.nz>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Robotussin
Date: April 7, 2006 at 8:31:32 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Thx Jon, I guess back in my day there probly wasn’t much info to tell a
bunch of naieve bored school girls about what we were doing to
ourselves…..not even gonna mention a year here LOL.
Koiky xx

—–Original Message—–
From: jon [mailto:jon@mindvox.com]
Sent: Saturday, 8 April 2006 12:30 a.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Robotussin

no, DXM isn’t like antihistamines… actually if you read some of the
stuff on the net about taking over-the-counter DXM products to get high,
a lot of them will warn to make sure you get something that is just DXM,
without any antihistamine in it.

Taking large doses of antihistamines can be pretty dangerous. But you
have to take a good deal more DXM before anything bad happens.

Kirk wrote:
Ewwwwww,robotussin? You’re kidding me!!
When I was in boreding school me n a coupla other gals heard about “Aller
G
tabs” antihismines, im gathering robotussin is similar….. anyway we took
ten tabs each and I was tripping off n on for a couple of days.
Unfortunately one of the girls spun out and ended up in sick bay and
dropped
us all in it.  After the parental lecture it was a lovely three week
suspension holiday.  Gave me a taste for seeing things that weren’t there
though lol.  Bit rough on the system but at that age it didn’t seem to
matter too much.
The things we do ay.
I also remember going thru a stage of hyperventilating whilst crouching,
then standing up and someone squeezing the rest of your breath out of you
til ya blacked out.
Good grief, boreding school must have been boring.
Over n out
K
—–Original Message—–
From: Preston Peet [mailto:ptpeet@nyc.rr.com]
Sent: Friday, 7 April 2006 11:09 p.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] RE:anger

ROBOin’!
LOL!
Buy a 4 ounce bottle of Robotussin DM, drink the entire thing, and I
promise

you will be incredibly messed up Callie.
I did this ONCE in Tampa, me and a long-ago girlfriend, when we couldn’t
find any E or LSD one night but had our hearts set on tripping. So we
followed others’ example and drank a 4 ounce bottle each. I knew friends
who

would buy TWO of these bottles, mix them up into a 32 ounce cup of
Mountain
Dew from the local 7-11 and chug it down (ewwwww is right too btw).
Drinking

it straight was one of the toughest “get high” tricks I’ve ever
undertaken,
but I certainly did get incredibly wasted. Granted, I could gotten even
more

wasted had I drunk an 8-ounce bottle, but I found I had to hold up a lot
of
walls by leaning upon them, and was basically drunk without the alcohol. I

never felt sick (other than while trying to chug the bottle in the first
place) but I would never ever try it again- EWWWWW just about covers the
entire experience for me- though others have apparently enjoyed it a lot.
There was once even a magazine dedicated to Roboin’ but I’ve no idea if
it’s

still around, where folk would write in their experiences on Robotussin
DM.
—–
“If God dropped acid, would he see people?”  ~Steven Wright

Peace, love and lotsof respect.
Preston
ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor Underground- the Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations,
Astonishing Archaeology and Hidden History
Editor Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Columnist HighTimes mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —–
From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Thursday, April 06, 2006 11:35 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] RE:anger

In a message dated 4/4/2006 3:24:08 P.M. Central Standard Time,
a.h.veil68@hotmail.com writes:
As far as being a psychonaut, I have travelled–on mushroom, L>S>D and
Dextromethorphan to places you wouldn’t believe.
Please share with me your tripping on Dextromethorphan! Ewwwwwww! I
would’ve

never thought you could trip on that stuff! Seems like it would make you
sick before you took enough to trip! Were you taking Dextromethorphan by
itself or in a cough compound?
Callie

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No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.385 / Virus Database: 268.3.5/303 – Release Date: 04/06/2006


No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.385 / Virus Database: 268.3.5/303 – Release Date: 04/06/2006

/]=———————————————————————=[\
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From: jon <jon@mindvox.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Robotussin
Date: April 7, 2006 at 8:29:38 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

no, DXM isn’t like antihistamines… actually if you read some of the stuff on the net about taking over-the-counter DXM products to get high, a lot of them will warn to make sure you get something that is just DXM, without any antihistamine in it.

Taking large doses of antihistamines can be pretty dangerous. But you have to take a good deal more DXM before anything bad happens.

Kirk wrote:
Ewwwwww,robotussin? You’re kidding me!!
When I was in boreding school me n a coupla other gals heard about “Aller G
tabs” antihismines, im gathering robotussin is similar….. anyway we took
ten tabs each and I was tripping off n on for a couple of days.
Unfortunately one of the girls spun out and ended up in sick bay and dropped
us all in it.  After the parental lecture it was a lovely three week
suspension holiday.  Gave me a taste for seeing things that weren’t there
though lol.  Bit rough on the system but at that age it didn’t seem to
matter too much.
The things we do ay.  I also remember going thru a stage of hyperventilating whilst crouching,
then standing up and someone squeezing the rest of your breath out of you
til ya blacked out.  Good grief, boreding school must have been boring.
Over n out
K
—–Original Message—–
From: Preston Peet [mailto:ptpeet@nyc.rr.com] Sent: Friday, 7 April 2006 11:09 p.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] RE:anger
ROBOin’!
LOL!
Buy a 4 ounce bottle of Robotussin DM, drink the entire thing, and I promise
you will be incredibly messed up Callie.
I did this ONCE in Tampa, me and a long-ago girlfriend, when we couldn’t find any E or LSD one night but had our hearts set on tripping. So we followed others’ example and drank a 4 ounce bottle each. I knew friends who
would buy TWO of these bottles, mix them up into a 32 ounce cup of Mountain Dew from the local 7-11 and chug it down (ewwwww is right too btw). Drinking
it straight was one of the toughest “get high” tricks I’ve ever undertaken, but I certainly did get incredibly wasted. Granted, I could gotten even more
wasted had I drunk an 8-ounce bottle, but I found I had to hold up a lot of walls by leaning upon them, and was basically drunk without the alcohol. I never felt sick (other than while trying to chug the bottle in the first place) but I would never ever try it again- EWWWWW just about covers the entire experience for me- though others have apparently enjoyed it a lot. There was once even a magazine dedicated to Roboin’ but I’ve no idea if it’s
still around, where folk would write in their experiences on Robotussin DM.
—–
“If God dropped acid, would he see people?”  ~Steven Wright
Peace, love and lotsof respect.
Preston
ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor Underground- the Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations, Astonishing Archaeology and Hidden History
Editor Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Columnist HighTimes mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.
—– Original Message —– From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Thursday, April 06, 2006 11:35 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] RE:anger
In a message dated 4/4/2006 3:24:08 P.M. Central Standard Time, a.h.veil68@hotmail.com writes:
As far as being a psychonaut, I have travelled–on mushroom, L>S>D and Dextromethorphan to places you wouldn’t believe.
Please share with me your tripping on Dextromethorphan! Ewwwwwww! I would’ve
never thought you could trip on that stuff! Seems like it would make you sick before you took enough to trip! Were you taking Dextromethorphan by itself or in a cough compound?
Callie  /]=———————————————————————=[\
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From: “Sara Glatt” <sara119@xs4all.nl>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] for Pascal,
Date: April 7, 2006 at 8:20:56 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi pascal,

here you can find lots of info. about muhammad,

http://www.answering-islam.org/Shamoun/prepubescent.htm

Sara

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From: jon <jon@mindvox.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] RE:anger
Date: April 7, 2006 at 8:21:27 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

www.dextroverse.org

=)

it’s been quite a while since i “robotripped”, but i always thought it felt vaguely like ketamine… DXM is derived from opiates, but it works in the brain more like a dissociative. it does retain a couple opiate-like effects though, mostly just cough suppression and making you itch.

you used to be able to buy the pure DXM powder off a number of sites on the web, but i’m not sure anymore, with all the cracking down on reseach chemicals that’s been going on…

oh, there’s also been some research into using DXM as an anti-addictive treatment, with some positive results.

Preston Peet wrote:
ROBOin’!
LOL!
Buy a 4 ounce bottle of Robotussin DM, drink the entire thing, and I promise you will be incredibly messed up Callie.
I did this ONCE in Tampa, me and a long-ago girlfriend, when we couldn’t find any E or LSD one night but had our hearts set on tripping. So we followed others’ example and drank a 4 ounce bottle each. I knew friends who would buy TWO of these bottles, mix them up into a 32 ounce cup of Mountain Dew from the local 7-11 and chug it down (ewwwww is right too btw). Drinking it straight was one of the toughest “get high” tricks I’ve ever undertaken, but I certainly did get incredibly wasted. Granted, I could gotten even more wasted had I drunk an 8-ounce bottle, but I found I had to hold up a lot of walls by leaning upon them, and was basically drunk without the alcohol. I never felt sick (other than while trying to chug the bottle in the first place) but I would never ever try it again- EWWWWW just about covers the entire experience for me- though others have apparently enjoyed it a lot. There was once even a magazine dedicated to Roboin’ but I’ve no idea if it’s still around, where folk would write in their experiences on Robotussin DM.
—–
“If God dropped acid, would he see people?”  ~Steven Wright
Peace, love and lotsof respect.
Preston
ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor Underground- the Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations, Astonishing Archaeology and Hidden History
Editor Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Columnist HighTimes mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.
—– Original Message —– From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Thursday, April 06, 2006 11:35 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] RE:anger
In a message dated 4/4/2006 3:24:08 P.M. Central Standard Time, a.h.veil68@hotmail.com writes:
As far as being a psychonaut, I have travelled–on mushroom, L>S>D and Dextromethorphan to places you wouldn’t believe.
Please share with me your tripping on Dextromethorphan! Ewwwwwww! I would’ve never thought you could trip on that stuff! Seems like it would make you sick before you took enough to trip! Were you taking Dextromethorphan by itself or in a cough compound?
Callie
/]=———————————————————————=[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] this day a year ago…
Date: April 7, 2006 at 6:56:52 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

good to read such a positive message first thing in the morning. Thanks Mark, and congrats. Call me sometime.

—–
“If God dropped acid, would he see people?”  ~Steven Wright

Peace, love and lotsof respect.
Preston
ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor Underground- the Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations, Astonishing Archaeology and Hidden History
Editor Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Columnist HighTimes mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —– From: Mark Corcoran
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Thursday, April 06, 2006 7:17 PM
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] this day a year ago…

This day a year ago I was buying 5 bags of dope… they were my last.
Words couldn’t describe how grateful I feel to be one of the lucky few.
Howard, Eric, Dana, Chris & D., My mom, Ali, Joe and Shirl…and moonbeam, dodi, Rocky, Randy’s, tink, Patrick, Dr. Ken, Kurt, Tink, Sara, Adam, Eddie, Preston, the Queens Crew, and everyone else out there, Thank you from the bottom of my heart.
I know its only 365 days but its a milestone and i’m pretty fuckin happy to have reached it. I’m also kinda happy to put this year behind me. As anyone I mentioned b4 can attest to, I totally unraveled emotionally after my last session and had to completely start over. In a nut shell, I’m kinda lucky I’m alive after the year I’ve had. But I really have kinda hung in there and pushed though a lot of the uncomfortable shit and I can’t say exactly when things started to click but they did…or they are. I’m far from the pictue of health but I really do continue to get a little better all the time. Two steps forward one step back kinda thing I guess. But one year ago today I wanted to die and now i’m pretty fuckin happy to be alive.
This stuff is somethin else.

From: jiggy9@hotmail.co.uk
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Date: Thu, 6 Apr 2006 21:23:39 +0100
Subject: [Ibogaine] Looking to mud and gold with an equal eye;)’~

Good Evening to all you people, love and respect to most but,
Ok all you great Men who think they know it all. how does this sit with you.
you all seem to be greedy little men. ok Judge and be judged but you play
and tally. Listen i pray and listen good. there are seven paths that any man
may walk, through masculine and feminine existence with self. You seek
enlightenment. you have the divine writings, but you do not practice them.
So i shall refresh your memories. OK!!! ‘I’ I am a MAN, not a Robot and
therefore feel and see and hear and touch and love and fulfill my desires
there is no want within my kingdom. I feel you are many greedy little men of
lusts that only want to control.
Pray read and start again.
There is no meditation apart from wisdom.

Those whose hearts are in a state of repose give forth a divine radiance.

He who is Rich in control renounces everything.

Truth Honesty, just, pure, lovely, of good report, if there be any virtue
and any praise, think of these things. Give thanks for what you have.

Meditate on thy own Lord in thine own mind with humility and do not create
warfare.

Sit and be still.

Good one, Whosoever among men attains greatness, they have, as it were, part
of the reward of meditation, Reverence, Respect.

So there you go. by meditating on the word and staying out of ego and power
trips, thou shalt be unaffected by the world.

Keep things simple folks,

Drink the water, eat the food. Want for nothing, fulfill your desires and
remember, I pray, that you can’t eat Sunday Dinner without Gravy, it is too
damn dry lololol  Grace!!!

How can you have any pudding if you don’t eat your meat. Well i can tell you
that it all does not matter in the end in the great scale of things. Atoms
move, molecules combine, just be and accept.

Do not harry warfare for warfare sake as you waste your time and energy.

The true key is just to think twice and feel that you have made the right
decision.

Spiritual and physiological ping pong.

Ah Flob a LOb a LOB,  Little WEEEEED. I am not a flower pot man and some of
you should leave my friends alone ok?                                 You
know who you are.

Peace and respect will bring you to bliss beyond any imagined feelings of
fear.

I retire to eat, laters folks. I pray i woke some of you up and put some
light and meaning back into your existences. lololol

Black feline cat, sees in two watch towers with two lanterns at the same
time. This is deception. For to worship two Gods at the same time is Mammon.
The Egyptians used these tools as slavery the same as governments and
agencies use Methadone as social control.

How can you sell cakes in the Church. lolol

Get the Syrians out of your camp.

Ok enough for now. you are all welcome to comment but remember the truth
hurts.

Out of my own ignorance today, cos i thought someone was sincere, I was
robbed. no matter i shall replace it. It was only a chattel. But I shall ask
and see of the person to see what they will try and use to protect
themselves. The ring was a silver three pence piece set in a crown. ah sweet
charity. You carry no chain, my love my Sweat.;
It was given me by a departed friend as remembrance.

Come sit Partake, Refresh, drink, BE!!!  Sated:)

At last I am a Warrior mighty in Battle.
Dinner:)’

Selah’

Paul:)

Strength, Power, Honour, Respect. Be good to yourselves people and remember
self love is not selfish. You do not need Warfare for Warfare sake.’!!!
Peace’

_________________________________________________________________
Be the first to hear what’s new at MSN – sign up to our free newsletters!
http://www.msn.co.uk/newsletters

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From: Kirk <captkirk@clear.net.nz>
Subject: [Ibogaine] bankruptcy
Date: April 7, 2006 at 8:14:54 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Just a little queery has anyone on this list ever filed for bankruptcy?
Something I am considering at this point in my life.
Would appreciate any feedback.
Koiky xx


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From: Kirk <captkirk@clear.net.nz>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Robotussin
Date: April 7, 2006 at 8:00:42 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Antihistamines I meant to write….


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From: Kirk <captkirk@clear.net.nz>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] (ot) Fw: ghosts in the mist
Date: April 7, 2006 at 8:00:04 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hehehhe, thx for that, I sent it to a mate who watched it TWICE and still
shat himself!!! Hahahahahahaha brilliant!!!

—–Original Message—–
From: Preston Peet [mailto:ptpeet@nyc.rr.com]
Sent: Friday, 7 April 2006 10:35 p.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] (ot) Fw: ghosts in the mist

LOL, funny, that was my exact reaction too Cpt.
After I cleaned off my seat of course.

—–
“If God dropped acid, would he see people?”  ~Steven Wright

Peace, love and lotsof respect.
Preston
ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor Underground- the Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations,
Astonishing Archaeology and Hidden History
Editor Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Columnist HighTimes mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —–
From: “Kirk” <captkirk@clear.net.nz>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Thursday, April 06, 2006 4:16 PM
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] (ot) Fw: ghosts in the mist

Thx Preston!!
I was a little wound up this morning, but that was so nice n soothing.
Think I can go lie down now for a while……
CK

—–Original Message—–
From: Preston Peet [mailto:ptpeet@nyc.rr.com]
Sent: Thursday, 6 April 2006 10:30 p.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com; drugwar@mindvox.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] (ot) Fw: ghosts in the mist

This is pretty off topic, but hey, we all get our buzzes in different
ways.
Right?
Remember you need to read the story first, then turn your volume up so you
can hear “the cameraman whispering” about the ghost.
;-0))

—–
“If God dropped acid, would he see people?”  ~Steven Wright

Peace, love and lotsof respect.
Preston Peet
ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor Underground- the Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations,
Astonishing Archaeology and Hidden History
Editor Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Columnist HighTimes mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —–
From: Gabriela Vuichoud
Sent: Thursday, April 06, 2006 2:38 AM
Subject: ghosts in the mist

You MUST READ THE STORY BEFORE WATCHING THE VIDEO – volume required

Strange but interesting.
This is a car advertisement from Great Britain.
When they finished filming the ad, the film editor noticed something
moving along the side of the car, like a ghostly white mist. They found
out
that a person had been killed a year earlier in that exact same spot.

The ad was never put on TV because of the unexplained ghostly
phenomenon.

Watch the front end of the car as it clears the trees in the middle of
the screen and you’ll see the white mist crossing in front of the car then
following it along the road….Spooky!

Is it a ghost, or is it simply mist? You decide.

If you listen to the ad, you’ll even hear the cameraman whispering in
the background about it near the end of the commercial.

CLINIQUE LA PRAIRIE
Gabriela Vuichoud
snip-

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Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.385 / Virus Database: 268.3.5/303 – Release Date: 04/06/2006

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From: Kirk <captkirk@clear.net.nz>
Subject: [Ibogaine] Robotussin
Date: April 7, 2006 at 7:59:22 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Ewwwwww,robotussin? You’re kidding me!!
When I was in boreding school me n a coupla other gals heard about “Aller G
tabs” antihismines, im gathering robotussin is similar….. anyway we took
ten tabs each and I was tripping off n on for a couple of days.
Unfortunately one of the girls spun out and ended up in sick bay and dropped
us all in it.  After the parental lecture it was a lovely three week
suspension holiday.  Gave me a taste for seeing things that weren’t there
though lol.  Bit rough on the system but at that age it didn’t seem to
matter too much.
The things we do ay.
I also remember going thru a stage of hyperventilating whilst crouching,
then standing up and someone squeezing the rest of your breath out of you
til ya blacked out.
Good grief, boreding school must have been boring.
Over n out
K
—–Original Message—–
From: Preston Peet [mailto:ptpeet@nyc.rr.com]
Sent: Friday, 7 April 2006 11:09 p.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] RE:anger

ROBOin’!
LOL!
Buy a 4 ounce bottle of Robotussin DM, drink the entire thing, and I promise

you will be incredibly messed up Callie.
I did this ONCE in Tampa, me and a long-ago girlfriend, when we couldn’t
find any E or LSD one night but had our hearts set on tripping. So we
followed others’ example and drank a 4 ounce bottle each. I knew friends who

would buy TWO of these bottles, mix them up into a 32 ounce cup of Mountain
Dew from the local 7-11 and chug it down (ewwwww is right too btw). Drinking

it straight was one of the toughest “get high” tricks I’ve ever undertaken,
but I certainly did get incredibly wasted. Granted, I could gotten even more

wasted had I drunk an 8-ounce bottle, but I found I had to hold up a lot of
walls by leaning upon them, and was basically drunk without the alcohol. I
never felt sick (other than while trying to chug the bottle in the first
place) but I would never ever try it again- EWWWWW just about covers the
entire experience for me- though others have apparently enjoyed it a lot.
There was once even a magazine dedicated to Roboin’ but I’ve no idea if it’s

still around, where folk would write in their experiences on Robotussin DM.
—–
“If God dropped acid, would he see people?”  ~Steven Wright

Peace, love and lotsof respect.
Preston
ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor Underground- the Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations,
Astonishing Archaeology and Hidden History
Editor Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Columnist HighTimes mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —–
From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Thursday, April 06, 2006 11:35 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] RE:anger

In a message dated 4/4/2006 3:24:08 P.M. Central Standard Time,
a.h.veil68@hotmail.com writes:
As far as being a psychonaut, I have travelled–on mushroom, L>S>D and
Dextromethorphan to places you wouldn’t believe.
Please share with me your tripping on Dextromethorphan! Ewwwwwww! I would’ve

never thought you could trip on that stuff! Seems like it would make you
sick before you took enough to trip! Were you taking Dextromethorphan by
itself or in a cough compound?
Callie

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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] (ot) Fw: ghosts in the mist
Date: April 7, 2006 at 6:34:40 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

LOL, funny, that was my exact reaction too Cpt.
After I cleaned off my seat of course.

—–
“If God dropped acid, would he see people?”  ~Steven Wright

Peace, love and lotsof respect.
Preston
ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor Underground- the Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations, Astonishing Archaeology and Hidden History
Editor Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Columnist HighTimes mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —– From: “Kirk” <captkirk@clear.net.nz>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Thursday, April 06, 2006 4:16 PM
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] (ot) Fw: ghosts in the mist

Thx Preston!!
I was a little wound up this morning, but that was so nice n soothing.
Think I can go lie down now for a while……
CK

—–Original Message—–
From: Preston Peet [mailto:ptpeet@nyc.rr.com]
Sent: Thursday, 6 April 2006 10:30 p.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com; drugwar@mindvox.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] (ot) Fw: ghosts in the mist

This is pretty off topic, but hey, we all get our buzzes in different ways.
Right?
Remember you need to read the story first, then turn your volume up so you
can hear “the cameraman whispering” about the ghost.
;-0))

—–
“If God dropped acid, would he see people?”  ~Steven Wright

Peace, love and lotsof respect.
Preston Peet
ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor Underground- the Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations,
Astonishing Archaeology and Hidden History
Editor Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Columnist HighTimes mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —– From: Gabriela Vuichoud
Sent: Thursday, April 06, 2006 2:38 AM
Subject: ghosts in the mist

You MUST READ THE STORY BEFORE WATCHING THE VIDEO – volume required

Strange but interesting.
This is a car advertisement from Great Britain.
When they finished filming the ad, the film editor noticed something
moving along the side of the car, like a ghostly white mist. They found out
that a person had been killed a year earlier in that exact same spot.

The ad was never put on TV because of the unexplained ghostly
phenomenon.

Watch the front end of the car as it clears the trees in the middle of
the screen and you’ll see the white mist crossing in front of the car then
following it along the road….Spooky!

Is it a ghost, or is it simply mist? You decide.

If you listen to the ad, you’ll even hear the cameraman whispering in
the background about it near the end of the commercial.

CLINIQUE LA PRAIRIE
Gabriela Vuichoud
snip-

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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] RE:anger
Date: April 7, 2006 at 7:09:18 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

ROBOin’!
LOL!
Buy a 4 ounce bottle of Robotussin DM, drink the entire thing, and I promise you will be incredibly messed up Callie.
I did this ONCE in Tampa, me and a long-ago girlfriend, when we couldn’t find any E or LSD one night but had our hearts set on tripping. So we followed others’ example and drank a 4 ounce bottle each. I knew friends who would buy TWO of these bottles, mix them up into a 32 ounce cup of Mountain Dew from the local 7-11 and chug it down (ewwwww is right too btw). Drinking it straight was one of the toughest “get high” tricks I’ve ever undertaken, but I certainly did get incredibly wasted. Granted, I could gotten even more wasted had I drunk an 8-ounce bottle, but I found I had to hold up a lot of walls by leaning upon them, and was basically drunk without the alcohol. I never felt sick (other than while trying to chug the bottle in the first place) but I would never ever try it again- EWWWWW just about covers the entire experience for me- though others have apparently enjoyed it a lot. There was once even a magazine dedicated to Roboin’ but I’ve no idea if it’s still around, where folk would write in their experiences on Robotussin DM.
—–
“If God dropped acid, would he see people?”  ~Steven Wright

Peace, love and lotsof respect.
Preston
ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor Underground- the Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations, Astonishing Archaeology and Hidden History
Editor Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Columnist HighTimes mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —– From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Thursday, April 06, 2006 11:35 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] RE:anger

In a message dated 4/4/2006 3:24:08 P.M. Central Standard Time, a.h.veil68@hotmail.com writes:
As far as being a psychonaut, I have travelled–on mushroom, L>S>D and Dextromethorphan to places you wouldn’t believe.
Please share with me your tripping on Dextromethorphan! Ewwwwwww! I would’ve never thought you could trip on that stuff! Seems like it would make you sick before you took enough to trip! Were you taking Dextromethorphan by itself or in a cough compound?
Callie

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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] this day a year ago…
Date: April 7, 2006 at 7:32:05 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Northern forces under Gen. Grant defeated the Confederate forces at the battle of Shiloh today too Mark, only that was back in 1862.
So you share an auspicious date with history.
—–
“If God dropped acid, would he see people?”  ~Steven Wright

Peace, love and lotsof respect.
Preston Peet
ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor Underground- the Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations, Astonishing Archaeology and Hidden History
Editor Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Columnist HighTimes mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —– From: Guy Bragge
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Friday, April 07, 2006 3:52 AM
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] this day a year ago…

Way to go Mark!!! Just what I needed to hear, it can be done.
Keep it up.and thanks for the inspiration.
Guy

From: Mark Corcoran [mailto:mcorcoran27@hotmail.com]
Sent: 07 April 2006 01:18
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] this day a year ago…

This day a year ago I was buying 5 bags of dope… they were my last.
Words couldn’t describe how grateful I feel to be one of the lucky few.
Howard, Eric, Dana, Chris & D., My mom, Ali, Joe and Shirl…and moonbeam, dodi, Rocky, Randy’s, tink, Patrick, Dr. Ken, Kurt, Tink, Sara, Adam, Eddie, Preston, the Queens Crew, and everyone else out there, Thank you from the bottom of my heart.
I know its only 365 days but its a milestone and i’m pretty fuckin happy to have reached it. I’m also kinda happy to put this year behind me. As anyone I mentioned b4 can attest to, I totally unraveled emotionally after my last session and had to completely start over. In a nut shell, I’m kinda lucky I’m alive after the year I’ve had. But I really have kinda hung in there and pushed though a lot of the uncomfortable shit and I can’t say exactly when things started to click but they did…or they are. I’m far from the pictue of health but I really do continue to get a little better all the time. Two steps forward one step back kinda thing I guess. But one year ago today I wanted to die and now i’m pretty fuckin happy to be alive.
This stuff is somethin else.

From: jiggy9@hotmail.co.uk
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Date: Thu, 6 Apr 2006 21:23:39 +0100
Subject: [Ibogaine] Looking to mud and gold with an equal eye;)’~

Good Evening to all you people, love and respect to most but,
Ok all you great Men who think they know it all. how does this sit with you.
you all seem to be greedy little men. ok Judge and be judged but you play
and tally. Listen i pray and listen good. there are seven paths that any man
may walk, through masculine and feminine existence with self. You seek
enlightenment. you have the divine writings, but you do not practice them.
So i shall refresh your memories. OK!!! ‘I’ I am a MAN, not a Robot and
therefore feel and see and hear and touch and love and fulfill my desires
there is no want within my kingdom. I feel you are many greedy little men of
lusts that only want to control.
Pray read and start again.
There is no meditation apart from wisdom.

Those whose hearts are in a state of repose give forth a divine radiance.

He who is Rich in control renounces everything.

Truth Honesty, just, pure, lovely, of good report, if there be any virtue
and any praise, think of these things. Give thanks for what you have.

Meditate on thy own Lord in thine own mind with humility and do not create
warfare.

Sit and be still.

Good one, Whosoever among men attains greatness, they have, as it were, part
of the reward of meditation, Reverence, Respect.

So there you go. by meditating on the word and staying out of ego and power
trips, thou shalt be unaffected by the world.

Keep things simple folks,

Drink the water, eat the food. Want for nothing, fulfill your desires and
remember, I pray, that you can’t eat Sunday Dinner without Gravy, it is too
damn dry lololol  Grace!!!

How can you have any pudding if you don’t eat your meat. Well i can tell you
that it all does not matter in the end in the great scale of things. Atoms
move, molecules combine, just be and accept.

Do not harry warfare for warfare sake as you waste your time and energy.

The true key is just to think twice and feel that you have made the right
decision.

Spiritual and physiological ping pong.

Ah Flob a LOb a LOB,  Little WEEEEED. I am not a flower pot man and some of
you should leave my friends alone ok?                                 You
know who you are.

Peace and respect will bring you to bliss beyond any imagined feelings of
fear.

I retire to eat, laters folks. I pray i woke some of you up and put some
light and meaning back into your existences. lololol

Black feline cat, sees in two watch towers with two lanterns at the same
time. This is deception. For to worship two Gods at the same time is Mammon.
The Egyptians used these tools as slavery the same as governments and
agencies use Methadone as social control.

How can you sell cakes in the Church. lolol

Get the Syrians out of your camp.

Ok enough for now. you are all welcome to comment but remember the truth
hurts.

Out of my own ignorance today, cos i thought someone was sincere, I was
robbed. no matter i shall replace it. It was only a chattel. But I shall ask
and see of the person to see what they will try and use to protect
themselves. The ring was a silver three pence piece set in a crown. ah sweet
charity. You carry no chain, my love my Sweat.;
It was given me by a departed friend as remembrance.

Come sit Partake, Refresh, drink, BE!!!  Sated:)

At last I am a Warrior mighty in Battle.
Dinner:)’

Selah’

Paul:)

Strength, Power, Honour, Respect. Be good to yourselves people and remember
self love is not selfish. You do not need Warfare for Warfare sake.’!!!
Peace’

_________________________________________________________________
Be the first to hear what’s new at MSN – sign up to our free newsletters!
http://www.msn.co.uk/newsletters

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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] OT! Eating cattle or food
Date: April 7, 2006 at 6:32:25 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

A much more eloquent and well argued statement Case than any I made to this point, so thanks for posting such a well-thought out statement.
Wish I’d found these words in MY head.
;-))

—–
“If God dropped acid, would he see people?”  ~Steven Wright

Peace, love and lotsof respect.
Preston Peet
ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor Underground- the Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations, Astonishing Archaeology and Hidden History
Editor Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Columnist HighTimes mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —– From: Tyler Case
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Thursday, April 06, 2006 3:24 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] OT! Eating cattle or food

Preston, I like your analogy to addiction.  Of course, its different because we’re not talking about continuosly doing something despite knowledge of personal harm (though there are some harms in eating a lot of meat, and of course some extrapersonal harm in many cases of addiction), but rather compassion for another, which takes some effort to muster (until you change your diet and it becomes habitual).

To take AA’s approach, we can look at it one meal at a time.  Think how tasty a plate of fried chicken would be right now.  Think about the sensual satisfaction you would experience while eating it, and for those few blissful minutes after you’ve finished the plate before you start thinking about food again.   Then think about the chicken who had to suffer from hatching to maturity only to be chopped up, deep fried and served with honey mustard.  The ratio of Fried Chicken serving: Chicken is only about 2:1.  Is it really worth it to sacrifice a chicken every 2 times you want some KFC, which will cause only temporary satisfaction and some detrament to health? To me, anyone who seriously considers this logically will see that is out of balance, but then again the urge to eat meat is probably strong enough to tilt the balance back in the direction of carnivory in most cases.  I don’t think its that humans are cold-hearted, its that we’re detached from the process.  The process would have a lot more salience if you had to go out and kill the chicken yourself.  I actually don’t feel so terrible about people hunting down a deer (which doesn’t suffer its entire life) and eating it, as long as they don’t waste it.  I admit that if I was starving and the only thing around was a rabbit, I would probably chuck a rock at it and cook it up to stay alive, but that is a lot different than treating an animal as a factory-produced pleasure to be enjoyed several times a day.  We don’t really think about our food because we don’t have to, and that’s dangerous.

Defenders of eating meat often say that human life is worth more than an animal’s life.  And while that may be right, or at least difficult to argue against, it is not a realistic reflection of the process.  A thoughtful meat-eater should instead say that “The satisfaction of eating two meals is worth more than animal’s life.”  Or “A human life with burgers and fried chicken is worth more than 10,000 animals’ lives and suffering.”  Don’t hold me to the math, but I’m sure you get the idea.

Tyler

On 4/6/06, Nick Sandberg <nick227@tiscali.co.uk> wrote:
Alan,

Personally, I don’t think you give a shit about animals. Seems to me like it’s just a lever you use to condemn people. You’re riddled with trips you can’t own yet and so you just project them randomly on people by starting little arguments everywhere, giving you the opportunity to lay in to them with a bit of condemnation. Well, that’s not so bad but I don’t feel anything in you like you give a shit. It’s just like a giant mind firing off into space. Can’t go anywhere, man.

Nick

From: Alan Hehe [mailto:a.h.veil68@hotmail.com]
Sent: 06 April 2006 00:00
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] OT! Eating cattle or food

Jon–
I hope you are kidding about brocolli feeling pain. That must be put there for a laugh.
This will probably be my last post, so I will say this: From debating in high school and different forums, and just from alot of research, I’ve learned one thing beyond any doubt: Anyone can make an argument, for or against, any idea, belief, or position–often using the same data. If you believe eating meat is okay, you will tend to gather evidence to support your belief, and exclude evidence that negates it. If you believe eating meat is wrong, the same is true. It’s not so much that I believe eating meat itself is wrong, it’s more that I feel we’re holding ourselves back from evolving spiritually and emotionally, from finding peace, by the way we treat our “food”–which is living, breathing, caring animals who are put to death and kept in the most inhumane fashions possible, all because we believe we are better than them, and since they are “only food”, it doesn’t matter how they are treated. But if you lock a cute little dog in a hot car for half a day, you can go to jail for that. We only want to save the cute animals. But we think nothin of the bull who gets his balls cut off with a knife without a drop of painkiller…and we’re egotistic enough to say..”ahh, he doesn’t feel anything.” But yet people like Bill are sure like a foetus, even though it’s C.N.S. isn’t even developed, the nerve endings aren’t formed yet, it must be going through agony.
So, you can make an argument for just about anything…but you have to live with the consequences if you turn out to be wrong.

From:   jon@mindvox.com

Reply-To:  ibogaine@mindvox.com
To:  ibogaine@mindvox.com

Subject:  Re: [Ibogaine] OT! Eating cattle or food
Date:  Wed, 5 Apr 2006 16:05:29 -0400 (EDT)

Well, ok… I’ll go through this point by point…

Not all plants feel pain, but some do… e.g., broccoli. Likewise, while
most animals do feel pain, not all do.. e.g. assorted types of shellfish.
Again, the line between plant and animal is not as clear cut as people
make it out to be.

As for the heart attacks, it is true that meat-eaters are more likely to
suffer from that, as well as from assorted food poisonings and infections
transmitted by tainted meat. But non-meat-eaters are more likely to suffer
from depression, anemia, and assorted other ailments. So, it’s a trade
off.

Your argument about our digestive system is completely off base. It’s
actually easier for humans (and other primates) to digest meat than to
digest plant matter. The main reason is that plant cells have tough cell
walls, while animal cells do not. Our digestive system is not set up to
get optimal nutrition from plants; for that we would need a digestive
system more similar to a cow (i.e., multiple stomachs, cud-chewing, longer
intenstines, etc.) This is why, for example, when you eat corn it comes
out whole at the other end. Humans are not especially good at digesting
most plant matter.

Based purely on our biology, humans are set up to be omnivores.  This is
because our digestive system has characterstics of both carnivores (e.g. a
single stomach and canines) and herbivores (e.g. molars). The length of
our digestive system is much shorter than that of pure herbivores, but
longer than that of pure carnivores. Optimal human nutrition is best
acheived by eating a balanced diet of animals and plants.

I do conceed that the way industrialised nations go about farming meat is
pretty brutal. But then, so is the way industrialised nations go about
farming plants as well.

And so is the way industrialised nations do most things, for that matter..

>   Hey–
>    Just wanted to say that, asides from clams or mussells maybe, plants > do
> not have a C>N>S and do not experience pain like animals, who have pain
> receptors just like we do. Also, there are other reasons for not eating
> meat: like health reasons…Meat eaters have about a 35-40% chance of
> dying from a heart attack do their diet, while vegetarians only have
> about 5% chance. That’s quite a difference.
>      Furthermore–yes, plants are alive! That’s the whole idea! You only
> obtain true life energy from living things! The meat you eat has been
> dead for God only knows how long, has very little nutritional value.
> Also, because we have a digestive track that’s over 20 feet long,
> alot of the meat you eat rots in your intestines, releasing all kinds
> of nasty toxins. In addition, when animals are slaughtered in the
> mass murder method we use, they’re not so stupid that they don’t know
> what’s going on…Animals (just like the animal called a dog) are
> very keen at sensing fear, not just within us, but within their own
> ranks. As they approach their death, they are terrified, and release
> a multitude of chemicals into their bloodstreams, which, when we eat,
> have an effect on us…mainly anger and fear, which are closely
> linked.
>     Well, I have to go…You have the choice to eat whatever you want..I
> used to eat meat, and still do occasionally…but I swear to you that
> I feel a hundred times lighter since I started eating less meat, and
> alot more full of life. And if you don’t think I know what I’m talking
> about, here a guy that was kinda smart, and his take on vegetarianism
> vs. eating meat:
> “Nothing will benefit health and increase the chances of survival of > life
> on Earth as the evoloution to a vegetarian diet..”—Albert Einstein.
>
>      From:  jon@mindvox.com

> Reply-To:  ibogaine@mindvox.com
> To:   ibogaine@mindvox.com

> Subject:  Re: [Ibogaine] OT! Eating cattle or food
> Date:  Wed, 5 Apr 2006 14:24:56 -0400 (EDT)

>>potatoes have eyes too =P
>>
>>i remember this punk song about how silly it is that vegetarians, for
>>example, don’t eat clams… because clams have essentially the same kind
>>of nervous system as broccoli and cauliflower…
>>
>>the line between plant and animal is not an entirely clear one.. and the
>>decision to eat plants but not animals seems to me a pretty arbitrary
>> one.
>>plants are living, breathing, and to some degree, thinking creatures as
>>well. but they get no love from PETA…
>>

>>i guess my basic point is.. eat whatever you’re  comfortable with. but

>>realise that whatever you eat, ANYTHING you eat, inflicts suffering on
>>some creature.
>>
>>such is the nature of life.
>>
>>

>>ahaha… speaking of PETA, i saw the best bumper sticker a couple weeks
>>ago….eheh… it said:
>>
>>”PETA – People Eating Tasty Animals”
>>
>>=)
>>
>>oh, and one more thing… as for the whole pet vs. food argument… i
>> know
>>for a fact that if my cat ever got the chance, he would totally eat me.
>> so
>>i don’t wanna hear it.. =P
>>
>>
>> > for me eating meat in a society where it’s unnecessary merely >> > promotes
>> the
>> > fear/bloodthirsty addiction so prevalent in the Western world. I can
>> see
>> > eating meat in a society where there are no alternatives, but where I
>> live
>> > it’s easy to not eat meat, and I’m  glad.
>> > I still do dairy and eggs, but can’t eat anything that might lick >> > it’s
>> > fellow beings, or nuzzle them, or communicate in any way, shape or
>> form
>> > with
>> > one another, even chickens (which I’ve been told are ok to eat >> > because
>> > “they’re stupid.” If that were the only criteria for being ok to eat,
>> I’d
>> > be
>> > a cannibal). Again, this is only my own viewpoint, but there seems to
>> be
>> > something unenlightened, to me, how some folk can have “pets” but >> > call
>> > cattle mere “food,” making no connection to the living, breathing,
>> > thinking
>> > creatures sharing the planet with us.
>> >
>> > Butt, and it’s a great big butt, I can’t really fault anyone for >> > their
>> > eating habits beyond stating how I personally feel, particularly >> > about
>> >  factory farming, inhumane treatment of our “food” and the wonton
>> slaughter
>> > of living creatures when it isn’t necessary for our survival, only to
>> feed
>> > our addiction to blood and flesh these days (Of course one couuld >> > take
>> > this
>> > to extreme and tell me plants are also living, but I limit my empathy
>> and
>> > eating ban to beings with eys I guess).
>> >     That’s because I’m…pro-choice at heart.
>> >
>> > —–
>> > “If God dropped acid, would he see people?”  ~Steven Wright
>> >
>> > Peace, love and lotsof respect.
>> > Preston Peet
>> > ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
>> > Editor Underground- the Disinformation Guide to Ancient >> > Civilizations,
>> > Astonishing Archaeology and Hidden History
>> > Editor Under the Influence- the  Disinformation Guide to Drugs
>> > Editor http://www.drugwar.com
>> > Columnist HighTimes mag/.com
>> > Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
>> > Columnist New York Waste
>> > Etc.
>> >
>> > —– Original Message —–
>> > From: Crooked Eye
>> > To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
>> > Sent: Tuesday, April 04, 2006 3:53 AM
>> > Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Whats a Republican?
>> >
>> >
>> > Cow’s are tasty…  If we aren’t supposed to eat animals, then why >> > are
>> > they
>> > made out of meat?  😀  I fail how to see eating cows equates to
>> racism…
>> > I
>> > eat a lot of cows, but I have a mixed family…  If it makes you feel
>> any
>> > better we eat a lot of chickens, too..  I love turkey, the >> > tryptophan
>> > makes
>> > me sleepy…
>> >
>> > Alan Hehe  wrote:
>> >    Don’t call me Baby…well, you can…since you’re not close enough
>> for
>> > me
>> > to do anything about it! Plus, that’s a freedom, too…Just like my
>> > ability
>> > to talk about pro-choice. As for your information, no, I don’t think
>> the
>> > way
>> > the abortion system is set up–but I absolutely believe in having the
>> > right…And no, you don’t have 9 months to decide whether to have the
>> rug
>> > rat or not–there is a cut-off, a limit to when abortions can be
>> > performed.
>> >      And so you think, because cows aren’t pets, or aren’t ‘cute’,
>> then
>> > it’s
>> > okay to torture them?  And to cut the balls of bulls off without any
>> > anesthetic? To make chickens live in a cage so small they can barely
>> turn
>> > around? And George Bush–wanting to save lives! LOL! That’s the
>> biggest
>> > joke
>> > I’ve ever heard! But it figures; you’re not special..alot of the
>> people in
>> > this country are brain-washed by the constant disinformation they are
>> > fed….Why do you think there are a hundred commercials warning of >> > the
>> > dangers of marijuana, one of the least harmful drugs known to man, >> > but
>> yet
>> > maybe one out of those hundred about the truly dangerous drugs, like >> > H
>> or
>> > Coke?
>> >        And you don’t have to be a hindu to have compassion for >> > animals
>> > other
>> > than cats and dogs, you dumb-ass red-neck! In some places  they eat
>> > dogs…would that be okay if they ate your dog? You know, I’m totally
>> > wasting my time talking to you, I can already tell that you are way
>> > undereducated, extremely prejudiced. Cows are just food. Are blacks
>> just
>> > niggers, too? God, I can’t stand fuckin’ red-necks like you,
>> especially
>> > the
>> > ones that actually think they’re smart. Once you start doing away >> > with
>> > freedoms, it’s all down-hill. Who’s going to decide what’s right and
>> > wrong?
>> > You?! I would happily put a hollow-point 45 shell into my head if >> > that
>> > possibility existed..of course G.W.B. is quite the redneck himself,
>> which
>> > is
>> > why you probably like him. First of all, HE’s not fighting for
>> anything. I
>> > have respect for the soldiers; they don’t decide the mission,  they
>> just do
>> > what they’re told. And how many babies do you think die while we were
>> > waging
>> > a war we were totally lied to about? Or is that okay? You think the
>> babies
>> > over there even know what a terrorist is? This world is already
>> > over-populated..if people like you ran things, the world would run >> > out
>> of
>> > resources within a decade! The oh so precious children! Everyone
>> starts
>> > out
>> > as a child..some people, like you, remain one, in their minds, their
>> whole
>> > life. But those sweet children often grow up to be killers and
>> rapists,
>> > and
>> > often for no apparent reason!  Strong belief does only one thing:
>> close
>> > your
>> > mind. Boy, that ibogaine is gonna have fun with you!!!!! Cows are >> > just
>> > food!
>> > Well, we’re  just food, too…if a grizzly decides you look good! >> > God,
>> what
>> > egotism!  You claim to be a Christian (I do not) but you must have
>> misssed
>> > the part about not judging lest you be judged yourself…And I bet
>> ibo’s
>> > gonna drive that one home with a psychoactive sledgehammer! You’ve >> > got
>> > your
>> > response, but I really no longer wish to talk with you. I’ve spent >> > too
>> > much
>> > time arguing with all the fascists on this list, instead of hanging
>> out
>> > with
>> > the cool, in the know ,people: by that meaning knowing that the whole
>> > Govt.
>> > is totally corrupt, actually controlled by a few wealthy and >> > extremely
>> > powerful people, and they constantly just feed us disinformation,
>> while
>> > manipulating the world through economic control, etc, and alot  of
>> other
>> > things you wouldn’t understand. BYE< NOW, Billy BOY. Go get a burger!
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > From:  “Billy J”
>> > Reply-To:   ibogaine@mindvox.com
>> > To:  ibogaine@mindvox.com
>> > Subject:  RE: [Ibogaine] Whats a Republican?
>> > Date:  Tue, 04 Apr 2006 02:19:25 -0400
>> >>Hear this peace and take it to your Heart FRIEND.
>> >>1st if we go back to Killing kids for the sins of their fathers
>> >>(Child of a Rapist) Do you think that is more civilized then Raising
>> >>Cattle for food,(Cattle are food “not Pets”) although you may be
>> >>from India or somewhere that they worship your cows and even there
>> >>fecal matter I hear!  Now if your are at that junkger(Place) then I
>> >>will have to say -well Al, Bless you, but when was the last time you
>> >>had your precious cow go to war for YOUR FREEDOMS that I am sure you
>> >>are enjoying- Yes?
>> >>   Allan , do you really love cows (the 4 legged ones that is) or
>> >>are you in your 2nd or 3rd reincarnation and you where once a cow
>> >>and you have come into this wierd mooing stage and you just could
>> >>not figure it out.
>> >>  Ok That is sarcasm – Sorry< I’ll get serious.
>> >>Oh Ya Your aborting a fetus-, and yes I know that in the USof A
>> >>being the most civilized Nation that has usually voted anti-
>> >>Christian ( just in case somebody didn’t let Everybody do what FEELs
>> >>GOOD)
>>  >>Ya you can Have sex with anybody you want and then if a girl gets
>> >>pregnant, or do you call it fetus something, oh well  so shes
>> >>pregnant you have 9 months to decide whether or not you what the
>> >>little BLOB Because your fetus can be kicking up a storm and as long
>> >>as you can keep its stupid( oh it,s brain isn’t functioning yet
>> >>,right) well as long as you can keep its head inside the grown up
>> >>fetus ( that would be the female, The pregnant one, knocked up one ,
>> >>dumb one what ever you would call someone like that ( Maybe MOM)
>> >>well just reach in and CRUSH ITS SCULL and or STICK A SYRINGE INTO
>> >>THe Back of it HEAD JUST UNTIL ITS STOPS PUTTINGN UP A FIGHT, AND
>> >>they do fight Allan, just go and ask your abortion doctor.–  PARTIAL
>> >>BIRTH ABORTION– VERY NICE–
>> >>  oH YA AND YOU KNOW WHAT ALLY BABY THAT STUPID WAR MOGER THAT YOU
>> >>HAVE AS A PRESIDENT WOULD LIKE NOTHING MORE THAN TO SAVE PEOPLE BUT
>> >>ALL YOU PEOPLE THAT GOD GAVE YOU FREE CHOICE HAVE DECIDED TO VOTE
>> >>FOR THE REAL KILLERS-
>> >>   Have you any clue how many of your fetuses are done away with
>> >>each year in the USA alone,, Allan Baby– way way more in 1 year
>> >>than have been killed in ALL the World wars— How many do you think
>> >>are rape and how many are just another form of birth control,, Your
>> >>Planned Parenthood is a multi-Billion dollar industry that fights
>> >>for you to have the freedom to get rid of your Babies- But They do
>> >>not do it for free– They  are rich.One more thing if we can justify
>> >>killing because you THINK they don’t feel pain- Why not line up all
>> >>us addicts right after a good whack and while we are feeling no pain
>> >>BANG-
>> >>Save a lot of tax dollars- The Meth Clinics would be Pissed though.
>> >>
>> >>Love Ya!
>> >>
>> >>Just Don’t say it is OK To Kill My Children- Or Yours
>> >>
>> >>B
>> >>
>> >>—-Original Message Follows—-
>> >>From: “Alan Hehe”
>> >>Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
>> >>To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
>> >>Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] RE: [Pornography,psychology,Choice,force,) 2
>> >>cents
>> >>Date: Tue, 04 Apr 2006 01:25:21 -0400
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>> >>

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>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>   I gotta take a piece of this one. Okay, Mr. Anti-choice, let me
>> >>ask you this: do you eat meat? If not, then good for you. If so,
>> >>have you ever though about the actual, truly painful, totally
>>  >>inhumane treatment we put animals through? And usually don’t think
>> >>twice about it…It’s people like George Bush who make me wish
>> >>sometimes that God would hurl an asteroid at us! It’s “God forbid
>> >>one human foetus (who does not feel a thing if the abortion is done
>> >>in a timely manner, according to the latest research, because their
>> >>nervous system isn’t nearly fully developed) should perish, no
>> >>matter if it was caused by a rape or is probably going to be born
>> >>into alot of suffering–but while I’m on my high horse, cut me a
>> >>piece o that cow off and cook it up! It’s sheer egotism that we
>> >>believe that humans are so damned
>> >>important, but it’s okay if we torture animals, ruin the planet, and
>> >>make other people  adhere to our beliefs!!! We’re not that important!
>> >>And if you believe in a God and the soul, then you know that–if the
>> >>foetus even has a soul yet, which I don’t believe it does..I believe
>> >>the soul enters with the first breath, and leaves with the
>> >>last–that baby is just going back into the arms of God! There is no
>> >>death! And since they don’t experience pain, all it becomes is
>> >>something for people like you to feel self righteous about!
>> >>Personally, I think everyone should smoke pot, and would benefit
>> >>from it (except for a few cases), but how would you like it if I
>> >>MADE you smoke it? That is, if you don’t, and don’t like it. Or
>> >>let’s say you eat meat, but I think it’s just as evil to do that as
>> >>to allow abortions, so  I outlawed meat–would that be okay with you?
>> >>And the cliff analogy is just stupid–not
>> >>the same thing at all. But yes, I think if a person is truly
>> >>miserable, and wants to die, I would try to talk them out of it, but
>> >>I would never stop them by force. That’s called LACK OF FREEDOM. And
>> >>if we didn’t make mistakes, how would we ever learn? To be told
>> >>something is wrong is one thing..you can tell a person, fire will
>> >>burn you..but until they get burned, they will not truly understand,
>> >>and that’s what life is all about–learning. No, I don’t like to see
>> >>foetus’ abortions–I think prevention is the answer….But
>> >>sometimes, I believe it is ‘the best choice’. If everyone like you
>> >>had their way, there really would be NO  ROOM AT ALL left!!! We’re
>> >>already sooo over-populated! It’s like I heard some character say in
>> >>a movie recently..”everybody’s kids are so special…it makes you
>> >>wonder where all the normal adults come from”. Even God believes in
>> >>freedom of choice! That’s why he gave
>> >>us FREE WILL. You’re a Republican, aren’t you? And you probably
>> >>think that war-mongering asshole of a President is the best-thing
>> >>since sliced bread, eh? It’s okay to kill, as long as it’s not a
>> >>precious child…even though that child may grow up to be The Son of
>> >>Sam!  well…”take me by the ham, no good, no evil, no give a
>> >>damn!”  And the Govt. is lying to you! About just about everything.
>> >>Peace, love, and freedom. Life is too  mysterious to take it so
>> >>serious!
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>From:  “Billy J”
>> >>Reply-To:  ibogaine@mindvox.com
>> >>To:   ibogaine@mindvox.com
>> >>Subject:  [Ibogaine] RE: [Pornography,psychology,Choice,force,) 2
>> >>cents
>> >>Date:  Sun, 02 Apr 2006 21:45:39 -0400
>> >> >Well It sounds like this place is really mixing it up so I would
>> >> >like to add a little REALITY TO YOU PRO CHOICERS, I am sure glad I
>> >> >was not an abortion’ althought I have had my moments.
>> >> >Yes My Mom was a young Mom and if she had a choice I think that I
>> >> >would have no Grandkids,  or be babbleing on here.
>> >> >     I too have an attitude, It is about the only thing in this
>> >> >world that I really have control over.
>> >> >Tiger– How well did you do with making ALL your own Choices,
>> >> >Instead of doing
>> >>what your were told to do? Not meant to be a shot
>> >> >at you personally, but I am with the Right or Wrong crowd- No such
>> >> >thing as grey.
>> >> >   I do know that some people may have grown up believing that
>> >>wrong
>> >> >was right and right was wrong, but I Think that I pretty much knew
>> >> >when I was stepping out of line and doing wrong.
>> >> >It is (as most believe) My God , no not God, but My worldly given
>> >> >Right- to do  wrong- It’s my life and if I want to screw it up then
>> >> >stay out of my way. And you know what I had a lot of sooo called
>> >> >friends that did just that WATCHED, AS i WAS Killing myself and
>> >> >ruining a lot of lifes.
>> >> >But O O O never no no no neverdare step on somebodys toes because
>> >> >you know what they have a choice, Just like those poor little
>> >>Crack

>> >> >%$^&amp;%$ Women that degrade themselves( and me

>> >>myself) due to
>> >> >everybody. But Never No No Never dare tell somebody or force
>> >>someone
>> >> >to get some help that they may never ever make it to on their own,
>> >> >due to something called “Pride” “Shame” “Guilt”
>> >> >Whatever holds them back. They may end up DEAD and it  would be
>> >>their
>> >> >own fault, because you know how STRONG us druggies are, and if
>> >>that
>> >> >person dies because he had a choice to get help and refused or
>> >>just
>> >> >couldn’t make it on his/her own and needed YOU (of course they

>> >> >didn’t tell you that).
>> >> >I am sorry but I BELIEVE that if you Love Someone or even care a
>> >> >little, and you see them walking off a cliff and YOU have an
>> >> >opportunity to stop them, and you don’t- Can you truelly say it
>> >>was
>> >> >their own fault?
>> >> >Pornography- I never met too many Normal people that would find it
>> >> >neccesary to take their
>> >>cloths off for the public to see. Totally
>> >> >wrong  and if you had your own kids you might not think it too cool
>> >> >having your buddy beating off while checking out your little girl.
>> >> >Not nice eh Billy but P–sy T-ts are not meant for anyone except
>> >>who
>> >> >they belong to and their mate.
>> >> >
>> >> >Bye For Now, That stuff is about the biggest trigger going for any
>> >> >downfall
>> >> >
>> >> >Bill
>> >> >—-Original Message Follows—-
>> >> >From: “Nick Sandberg”

>> >> >Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
>> >> >To:

>> >> >Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Opiates
>> >> >Date: Sun, 2 Apr 2006 10:24:07 +0100

>> >> >MIME-Version: 1.0

>> >>  >Received: from tomts21-srv.bellnexxia.net ([209.226.175.183]) by
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>> >> >

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>> >>08:38:58

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>> >> >FILETIME=[6A155DD0:01C65652]
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >   —–Original Message—–
>> >> >   From: Tiger Lisa [mailto: tigerlisa@gmail.com]
>> >> >   Sent: 01 April 2006 13:44

>> >> >   To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
>> >> >   Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Opiates
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >   Dear Nick,
>> >> >   Here’ the part I don’t understand.
>> >> >
>> >> >   You wrote,
>> >> >   Personally, my position is…I think rising awareness is GOOD.
>>  >>I
>> >> >would
>> >> >love to see more people in groups, going through their stuff,
>> >> >becoming more
>> >> >aware of their
>> >>personal interior dynamic, and moving forward in
>> >> >life. But,
>> >> >sadly, I’m not in a position to compel people to do this.
>> >> >
>> >> >   Why would you ever want to COMPEL anyone to do ANYTHING? Do you
>> >> >really
>> >> >believe that would be useful, effective, helpful? Do you think
>> >> >people
>> >> >actually benefit from, and grow from, being FORCED to do anything?
>> >> >
>> >> >   That is a parent-child model of interaction (and not a
>> >> >particularly
>> >> >skillful one, IMO),  and it’s going to reinforce childlike,
>> >> >rebellious and
>> >> >victim behavior (NOT self-awareness!) in the one so compelled, as
>> >> >well as
>> >> >reinforcing bullying behavior and disprespectful and righteous
>> >> >attitudes
>> >> >(NOT increased compassion or awareness) in the one doing the
>> >> >compelling. A
>> >> >”lose-lose” interaction–no one
>> >>wins!
>> >> >
>> >> >   Myself, I believe CHOICE is the name of the game. With choice
>> >> >comes
>> >> >responsibility, self-responsibility and a loss of the victim
>> >> >consciousness
>> >> >that drives continued reactive and unconscious behavior.
>> >> >
>> >> >   So in  a nutshell: Saying something (like awarenss) is GOOD is
>> >>one
>> >> >thing,
>> >> >but it’s a far cry from that to say,”And I’d love to FORCE you all
>> >> >to be
>> >> >more aware! too bad I can’t!” I think that is the essence of
>> >>what
>> >> >*I* am
>> >> >having a problem with. Yes, awareness is good. I agree. Yes, I’d
>> >> >love to
>> >> >live in a more aware society, umm hmm. Then I read the next
>> >>sentence
>> >> >and I’m
>> >> >brought up short.
>> >> >
>> >> >   We all need love, acceptance, compassion. Compassion is one of
>> >> >the most
>> >> >healing things
>> >>going! Power and control, on the other hand, just  get
>> >> >people’s backs up, thrust them into dysfunctional modes of
>> >>thinking
>> >> >and
>> >> >perpetuate a lack of awareness all around.
>> >> >
>> >> >   Just my two cents,
>> >> >   Tiger
>> >> >
>> >> >   PS I bet if you took a shot of heroin, you would experience
>> >> >bliss! (not
>> >> >that I’m suggesting you do) I believe it is just how human beings
>> >> >are wired.
>> >> >We’ve all got the same neurotransmitters, more or less.
>> >> >
>> >> >   Hi Tiger,
>> >> >
>> >> >   Well, I seem to recall, from the days when I used to go to
>> >> >conferences and
>> >>  >stuff, that studies have shown that only a small percentage of
>> >> >school kids
>> >> >who used heroin developed a habit. (Howard Parker in Sheffield, or
>> >> >something
>> >> >like that, about 1000 individuals
>> >>studied). This is not quite the
>> >> >same as
>> >> >what you’re saying, I appreciate, but it shows that the drug of
>> >> >itself is
>> >> >not necessarily addicting. I don’t know if anyone knows what makes
>> >>a
>> >> >difference but I’d be willing to bet that, psychologically, it
>> >> >relates
>> >> >strongly to “ego orientation” vs “underlying levels of feeling.”
>> >>If
>> >> >you’ve
>> >> >developed a self-image that requires you to repress more  feelings
>> >> >than the
>> >> >endogenous opiates in your body can do, then taking heroin is
>> >>going
>> >> >to make
>> >> >you feel pretty good. I would personally say that this is very
>> >> >likely one
>> >> >psychological mechanism behind addiction. This would explain why
>> >>so
>> >> >many
>> >> >addicts do come from relatively high trauma backgrounds. For, as
>> >> >kids, we
>> >> >learn that to “get things” and to “be popular” we need to
>> >>be able to
>> >> >keep
>> >> >our feelings a bit under control, not just likely to collapse from
>> >> >overfeeling at any time.
>> >> >
>> >> >   With bliss, (or anxiety for that matter),  these are
>> >>experiential
>> >> >things
>> >> >and no neuroscientist can explain them beyond pointing a little at
>> >> >things
>> >> >that seem to be involved. What is clear is that the states are
>> >> >relative to
>> >> >one another. If you’re basically a happy person bliss is
>> >>inevitably
>> >> >less
>> >> >attractive than if you’re an anxious person.
>> >> >
>> >> >   About awareness, yes, I would love to force everyone to be more
>> >> >aware!
>> >> >And, inevitably, it doesn’t really work like that! But that’s my
>> >> >position
>> >> >anyway. What to do? Yes, compassion is needed, sometimes a lot of
>> >> >it. Also,
>> >>  >all the power and control at times. I’m not so
>> >>busy with how I think
>> >> >society
>> >> >should be, or trying to like Understand the world, I just put my
>> >> >position
>> >> >out really. About choice, well, it seems like a great thing, for
>> >> >sure, but
>> >> >to me it’s a little the same as trying to push compassion at the
>> >> >expense of
>> >> >power. In philosophy or spirituality or whatever, some people
>> >> >believe that
>> >> >free will exists, others that the universe is entirely
>> >> >deterministic. Who
>> >> >the fuck knows? Both are cool viewpoints, and I personally
>> >>wouldn’t
>> >> >just
>> >> >want to just trapped in just one of  them.
>> >> >

>> >> >   Is it cool to allow someone you care about to carry on fucking
>> >> >their life

>> >> >up because you believe so much in their free will? Not for me! I
>> >> >like to
>> >> >have the guts to take a position. And, to be honest, it’s a little
>> >>
>> >> >bit what
>> >> >I miss in this list, where half the time everyone seems to be
>> >> >talking it up
>> >> >all nice but actually underneath there are shed-loads of feelings.
>> >>I
>> >> >don’t
>> >> >know if this says anything significant about ibogaine, or about
>> >>the
>> >> >people
>> >> >who are attracted to administering it, or what. But I notice it.
>> >>  >
>> >> >   Nick
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >/]=———————————————————————=[\

>> >> >[%] Ibogaine List Commands:
>> >> > http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
>> >> >
>> >> >\]=———————————————————————=[/
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >>

>> >>  With MSN Spaces email straight to your blog. Upload jokes, photos
>> >>and more. It’s free!
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>/]=———————————————————————=[\

>> >>  [%] Ibogaine List  Commands:
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>> >>
>> >>
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From: “Sara Glatt” <sara119@xs4all.nl>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] this day a year ago…
Date: April 7, 2006 at 7:04:35 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Dear Mark,

best wishes,

Sara

This day a year ago I was buying 5 bags of dope… they were my last.
Words couldn’t describe how grateful I feel to be one of the lucky few.
Howard, Eric, Dana, Chris & D., My mom, Ali, Joe and Shirl…and moonbeam,
dodi, Rocky, Randy’s, tink, Patrick, Dr. Ken, Kurt, Tink, Sara, Adam,
Eddie, Preston, the Queens Crew, and everyone else out there, Thank you
from the bottom of my heart.
I know its only 365 days but its a milestone and i’m pretty fuckin happy
to have reached it. I’m also kinda happy to put this year behind me. As
anyone I mentioned b4 can attest to, I totally unraveled emotionally after
my last session and had to completely start over. In a nut shell, I’m
kinda lucky I’m alive after the year I’ve had. But I really have kinda
hung in there and pushed though a lot of the uncomfortable shit and I
can’t say exactly when things started to click but they did…or they are.
I’m far from the pictue of health but I really do continue to get a little
better all the time. Two steps forward one step back kinda thing I guess.
But one year ago today I wanted to die and now i’m pretty fuckin happy to
be alive.
This stuff is somethin else.

From: jiggy9@hotmail.co.uk> To: ibogaine@mindvox.com> Date: Thu, 6 Apr
2006 21:23:39 +0100> Subject: [Ibogaine] Looking to mud and gold with an
equal eye;)’~> > > Good Evening to all you people, love and respect to
most but,> Ok all you great Men who think they know it all. how does
this sit with you. > you all seem to be greedy little men. ok Judge and
be judged but you play > and tally. Listen i pray and listen good. there
are seven paths that any man > may walk, through masculine and feminine
existence with self. You seek > enlightenment. you have the divine
writings, but you do not practice them.> So i shall refresh your
memories. OK!!! ‘I’ I am a MAN, not a Robot and > therefore feel and see
and hear and touch and love and fulfill my desires > there is no want
within my kingdom. I feel you are many greedy little men of > lusts that
only want to control.> Pray read and start again.> There is no
meditation apart from wisdom.> > Those whose hearts are in a state of
repose give forth a divine radiance.> > He who is Rich in control
renounces everything.> > Truth Honesty, just, pure, lovely, of good
report, if there be any virtue > and any praise, think of these things.
Give thanks for what you have.> > Meditate on thy own Lord in thine own
mind with humility and do not create > warfare.> > Sit and be still.> >
Good one, Whosoever among men attains greatness, they have, as it were,
part > of the reward of meditation, Reverence, Respect.> > So there you
go. by meditating on the word and staying out of ego and power > trips,
thou shalt be unaffected by the world.> > Keep things simple folks,> >
Drink the water, eat the food. Want for nothing, fulfill your desires
and > remember, I pray, that you can’t eat Sunday Dinner without Gravy,
it is too > damn dry lololol  Grace!!!> > How can you have any pudding
if you don’t eat your meat. Well i can tell you > that it all does not
matter in the end in the great scale of things. Atoms > move, molecules
combine, just be and accept.> > Do not harry warfare for warfare sake as
you waste your time and energy.> > The true key is just to think twice
and feel that you have made the right > decision.> > Spiritual and
physiological ping pong.> > > Ah Flob a LOb a LOB,  Little WEEEEED. I am
not a flower pot man and some of > you should leave my friends alone ok?
You > know who you are.> > Peace and
respect will bring you to bliss beyond any imagined feelings of > fear.>
I retire to eat, laters folks. I pray i woke some of you up and put
some > light and meaning back into your existences. lololol> > Black
feline cat, sees in two watch towers with two lanterns at the same >
time. This is deception. For to worship two Gods at the same time is
Mammon.> The Egyptians used these tools as slavery the same as
governments and > agencies use Methadone as social control.> > How can
you sell cakes in the Church. lolol> > Get the Syrians out of your
camp.> > Ok enough for now. you are all welcome to comment but remember
the truth > hurts.> > Out of my own ignorance today, cos i thought
someone was sincere, I was > robbed. no matter i shall replace it. It
was only a chattel. But I shall ask > and see of the person to see what
they will try and use to protect > themselves. The ring was a silver
three pence piece set in a crown. ah sweet > charity. You carry no
chain, my love my Sweat.;> It was given me by a departed friend as
remembrance.> > Come sit Partake, Refresh, drink, BE!!!  Sated:)> >
At last I am a Warrior mighty in Battle.      >
Dinner:)’> > Selah’> >
Paul:)> > Strength, Power, Honour, Respect. Be good to yourselves
people and remember > self love is not selfish. You do not need Warfare
for Warfare sake.’!!!    > Peace’> >
_________________________________________________________________> Be
the first to hear what’s new at MSN – sign up to our free newsletters! >
http://www.msn.co.uk/newsletters> > > >
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_________________________________________________________________
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From: “Guy Bragge” <guybragge@mweb.co.za>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] this day a year ago…
Date: April 7, 2006 at 3:52:39 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Way to go Mark!!! Just what I needed to hear, it can be done.
Keep it up.and thanks for the inspiration.
Guy
From: Mark Corcoran [mailto:mcorcoran27@hotmail.com] 
Sent: 07 April 2006 01:18
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] this day a year ago…

This day a year ago I was buying 5 bags of dope… they were my last.
Words couldn’t describe how grateful I feel to be one of the lucky few.
Howard, Eric, Dana, Chris & D., My mom, Ali, Joe and Shirl…and moonbeam, dodi, Rocky, Randy’s, tink, Patrick, Dr. Ken, Kurt, Tink, Sara, Adam, Eddie, Preston, the Queens Crew, and everyone else out there, Thank you from the bottom of my heart.
I know its only 365 days but its a milestone and i’m pretty fuckin happy to have reached it. I’m also kinda happy to put this year behind me. As anyone I mentioned b4 can attest to, I totally unraveled emotionally after my last session and had to completely start over. In a nut shell, I’m kinda lucky I’m alive after the year I’ve had. But I really have kinda hung in there and pushed though a lot of the uncomfortable shit and I can’t say exactly when things started to click but they did…or they are. I’m far from the pictue of health but I really do continue to get a little better all the time. Two steps forward one step back kinda thing I guess. But one year ago today I wanted to die and now i’m pretty fuckin happy to be alive.
This stuff is somethin else.

> From: jiggy9@hotmail.co.uk
> To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
> Date: Thu, 6 Apr 2006 21:23:39 +0100
> Subject: [Ibogaine] Looking to mud and gold with an equal eye;)’~
> 
> 
> Good Evening to all you people, love and respect to most but,
> Ok all you great Men who think they know it all. how does this sit with you. 
> you all seem to be greedy little men. ok Judge and be judged but you play 
> and tally. Listen i pray and listen good. there are seven paths that any man 
> may walk, through masculine and feminine existence with self. You seek 
> enlightenment. you have the divine writings, but you do not practice them.
> So i shall refresh your memories. OK!!! ‘I’ I am a MAN, not a Robot and 
> therefore feel and see and hear and touch and love and fulfill my desires 
> there is no want within my kingdom. I feel you are many greedy little men of 
> lusts that only want to control.
> Pray read and start again.
> There is no meditation apart from wisdom.
> 
> Those whose hearts are in a state of repose give forth a divine radiance.
> 
> He who is Rich in control renounces everything.
> 
> Truth Honesty, just, pure, lovely, of good report, if there be any virtue 
> and any praise, think of these things. Give thanks for what you have.
> 
> Meditate on thy own Lord in thine own mind with humility and do not create 
> warfare.
> 
> Sit and be still.
> 
> Good one, Whosoever among men attains greatness, they have, as it were, part 
> of the reward of meditation, Reverence, Respect.
> 
> So there you go. by meditating on the word and staying out of ego and power 
> trips, thou shalt be unaffected by the world.
> 
> Keep things simple folks,
> 
> Drink the water, eat the food. Want for nothing, fulfill your desires and 
> remember, I pray, that you can’t eat Sunday Dinner without Gravy, it is too 
> damn dry lololol  Grace!!!
> 
> How can you have any pudding if you don’t eat your meat. Well i can tell you 
> that it all does not matter in the end in the great scale of things. Atoms 
> move, molecules combine, just be and accept.
> 
> Do not harry warfare for warfare sake as you waste your time and energy.
> 
> The true key is just to think twice and feel that you have made the right 
> decision.
> 
> Spiritual and physiological ping pong.
> 
> 
> Ah Flob a LOb a LOB,  Little WEEEEED. I am not a flower pot man and some of 
> you should leave my friends alone ok?                                 You 
> know who you are.
> 
> Peace and respect will bring you to bliss beyond any imagined feelings of 
> fear.
> 
> I retire to eat, laters folks. I pray i woke some of you up and put some 
> light and meaning back into your existences. lololol
> 
> Black feline cat, sees in two watch towers with two lanterns at the same 
> time. This is deception. For to worship two Gods at the same time is Mammon.
> The Egyptians used these tools as slavery the same as governments and 
> agencies use Methadone as social control.
> 
> How can you sell cakes in the Church. lolol
> 
> Get the Syrians out of your camp.
> 
> Ok enough for now. you are all welcome to comment but remember the truth 
> hurts.
> 
> Out of my own ignorance today, cos i thought someone was sincere, I was 
> robbed. no matter i shall replace it. It was only a chattel. But I shall ask 
> and see of the person to see what they will try and use to protect 
> themselves. The ring was a silver three pence piece set in a crown. ah sweet 
> charity. You carry no chain, my love my Sweat.;
> It was given me by a departed friend as remembrance.
> 
> Come sit Partake, Refresh, drink, BE!!!  Sated:)
> 
>                        At last I am a Warrior mighty in Battle.      
> Dinner:)’
> 
> Selah’
> 
>                                                       Paul:)
> 
> Strength, Power, Honour, Respect. Be good to yourselves people and remember 
> self love is not selfish. You do not need Warfare for Warfare sake.’!!!    
> Peace’
> 
> _________________________________________________________________
> Be the first to hear what’s new at MSN – sign up to our free newsletters! 
> http://www.msn.co.uk/newsletters
> 
> 
> 
>   /]=———————————————————————=[\
>  [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
>   \]=———————————————————————=[/
> 
>
From: “Jasen Chamoun” <jasenhappy@optusnet.com.au>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] this day a year ago…
Date: April 7, 2006 at 2:23:45 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Mark,

You go bro,..awesome. Love from the land of OZ
—– Original Message —–
From: Mark Corcoran
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Friday, April 07, 2006 9:17 AM
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] this day a year ago…

This day a year ago I was buying 5 bags of dope… they were my last.
Words couldn’t describe how grateful I feel to be one of the lucky few.
Howard, Eric, Dana, Chris & D., My mom, Ali, Joe and Shirl…and moonbeam, dodi, Rocky, Randy’s, tink, Patrick, Dr. Ken, Kurt, Tink, Sara, Adam, Eddie, Preston, the Queens Crew, and everyone else out there, Thank you from the bottom of my heart.
I know its only 365 days but its a milestone and i’m pretty fuckin happy to have reached it. I’m also kinda happy to put this year behind me. As anyone I mentioned b4 can attest to, I totally unraveled emotionally after my last session and had to completely start over. In a nut shell, I’m kinda lucky I’m alive after the year I’ve had. But I really have kinda hung in there and pushed though a lot of the uncomfortable shit and I can’t say exactly when things started to click but they did…or they are. I’m far from the pictue of health but I really do continue to get a little better all the time. Two steps forward one step back kinda thing I guess. But one year ago today I wanted to die and now i’m pretty fuckin happy to be alive.
This stuff is somethin else.

From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] this day a year ago…
Date: April 6, 2006 at 11:43:46 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

way to go!!! it is a miracle, huh?
callie

From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] RE:anger
Date: April 6, 2006 at 11:35:37 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 4/4/2006 3:24:08 P.M. Central Standard Time, a.h.veil68@hotmail.com writes:
As far as being a psychonaut, I have travelled–on mushroom, L>S>D and Dextromethorphan to places you wouldn’t believe.

Please share with me your tripping on Dextromethorphan! Ewwwwwww! I would’ve never thought you could trip on that stuff! Seems like it would make you sick before you took enough to trip! Were you taking Dextromethorphan by itself or in a cough compound?
Callie

From: biscuitboy714@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] this day a year ago…
Date: April 6, 2006 at 9:58:29 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

GET…………………DOWN…………………….WILLIE                       Randy

—–Original Message—–
From: Mark Corcoran <mcorcoran27@hotmail.com>
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Thu, 6 Apr 2006 19:17:30 -0400
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] this day a year ago…

This day a year ago I was buying 5 bags of dope… they were my last.

Words couldn’t describe how grateful I feel to be one of the lucky few.

Howard, Eric, Dana, Chris & D., My mom, Ali, Joe and Shirl…and moonbeam, dodi, Rocky, Randy’s, tink, Patrick, Dr. Ken, Kurt, Tink, Sara, Adam, Eddie, Preston, the Queens Crew, and everyone else out there, Thank you from the bottom of my heart.

I know its only 365 days but its a milestone and i’m pretty fuckin happy to have reached it. I’m also kinda happy to put this year behind me. As anyone I mentioned b4 can attest to, I totally unraveled emotionally after my last session and had to completely start over. In a nut shell, I’m kinda lucky I’m alive after the year I’ve had. But I really have kinda hung in there and pushed though a lot of the uncomfortable shit and I can’t say exactly when things started to click but they did…or they are. I’m far from the pictue of health but I really do continue to get a little better all the time. Two steps forward one step back kinda thing I guess. But one year ago today I wanted to die and now i’m pretty fuckin happy to be alive.

This stuff is somethin else.

——–

> From: jiggy9@hotmail.co.uk
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Date: Thu, 6 Apr 2006 21:23:39 +0100
Subject: [Ibogaine] Looking to mud and gold with an equal eye;)’~

Good Evening to all you people, love and respect to most but,
Ok all you great Men who think they know it all. how does this sit with y
ou.

you all seem to be greedy little men. ok Judge and be judged but you play
and tally. Listen i pray and listen good. there are seven paths that any
man

may walk, through masculine and feminine existence with self. You seek

enlightenment. you have the divine writings, but you do not practice them
.

So i shall refresh your memories. OK!!! ‘I’ I am a MAN, not a Robot and

therefore feel and see and hear and touch and love and fulfill my desires
there is no want within my kingdom. I feel you are many greedy little men
of
lusts that only want to control.
Pray read and start again.
There is no meditation apart from wisdom.

Those whose hearts are in a state of repose give forth a divine radiance.

He who is Rich in control renounces everything.

Truth Honesty, just, pure, lovely, of good report, if there be any virtue

and any praise, think of these things. Give thanks for what you have.

Meditate on thy own Lord in thine own mind with humility and do not creat
e
warfare.

Sit and be still.

Good one, Whosoever among men attains greatness, they have, as it were, p
art
of the reward of meditation, Reverence, Respect.

So there you go. by meditating on the word and staying out of ego and pow
er
trips, thou shalt be unaffected by the world.

Keep things simple folks,

Drink the water, eat the food. Want for nothing, fulfill your desires and
remember, I pray, that you can’t eat Sunday Dinner without Gravy, it is t
oo
damn dry lololol  Grace!!!

How can you have any pudding if you don’t eat your meat. Well i can tell
you

that it all does not matter in the end in the great scale of things. Atom
s
move, molecules combine, just be and accept.

Do not harry warfare for warfare sake as you waste your time and energy.

The true key is just to think twice and feel that you have made the right

decision.

Spiritual and physiological ping pong.

Ah Flob a LOb a LOB,  Little WEEEEED. I am not a flower pot man and some
of

you should leave my friends alone ok?                                 You

know who you are.

Peace and respect will bring you to bliss beyond any imagined feelings of

fear.

I retire to eat, laters folks. I pray i woke some of you up and put some

light and meaning back into your existences. lololol

Black feline cat, sees in two watch towers with two lanterns at the same

time. This is deception. For to worship two Gods at the same time is Mamm
on.
The Egyptians used these tools as slavery the same as governments and
agencies use Methadone as social control.

How can you sell cakes in the Church. lolol

Get the Syrians out of your camp.

Ok enough for now. you are all welcome to comment but remember the truth

hurts.

Out of my own ignorance today, cos i thought someone was sincere, I was

robbed. no matter i shall replace it. It was only a chattel. But I shall
ask
and see of the person to see what they will try and use to protect
themselves. The ring was a silver three pence piece set in a crown. ah sw
eet
charity. You carry no chain, my love my Sweat.;
It was given me by a departed friend as remembrance.

Come sit Partake, Refresh, drink, BE!!!  Sated:)

At last I am a Warrior mighty in Battle.
Dinner:)’

Selah’

Paul:)

Strength, Power, Honour, Respect. Be good to yourselves people and rememb
er

self love is not selfish. You do not need Warfare for Warfare sake.’!!!

Peace’

_________________________________________________________________
Be the first to hear what’s new at MSN – sign up to our free newsletters!

http://www.msn.co.uk/newsletters

/]=——————————————————————–
-=[\

[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.htm
l [%]

\]=——————————————————————–
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——–
=
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From: Crooked Eye <iboganaut420@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] please remove me from list
Date: April 6, 2006 at 8:11:49 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

remove yourself…  click the link and follow the instructions to remove your email from the list…
Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html

illya braun <illyabraun@hotmail.com> wrote:

please remove me from your mailing list.
many thanks
illya braun

 

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From: “illya braun” <illyabraun@hotmail.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] please remove me from list
Date: April 6, 2006 at 8:05:36 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

please remove me from your mailing list.
many thanks
illya braun

 

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From: “Billy J” <billjohnson6@sympatico.ca>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Looking to mud and gold with an equal eye;)’~
Date: April 6, 2006 at 7:23:47 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Close and almost Godly Pauly,
Sounds to me like you Love God almost as much as you like your meds.
Maybe I am rong but remember to think on whatsoever thigs R pure, Lovely,of a good report, Love your neighbour as yourself,
But first learn to love yourself— My biggest obsticle.

Bill

—-Original Message Follows—-
From: “Paul Brookshaw” <jiggy9@hotmail.co.uk>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] Looking to mud and gold with an equal eye;)’~
Date: Thu, 06 Apr 2006 21:23:39 +0100
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Good Evening to all you people, love and respect to most but,
Ok all you great Men who think they know it all. how does this sit with you. you all seem to be greedy little men. ok Judge and be judged but you play and tally. Listen i pray and listen good. there are seven paths that any man may walk, through masculine and feminine existence with self. You seek enlightenment. you have the divine writings, but you do not practice them.
So i shall refresh your memories. OK!!! ‘I’ I am a MAN, not a Robot and therefore feel and see and hear and touch and love and fulfill my desires there is no want within my kingdom. I feel you are many greedy little men of lusts that only want to control.
Pray read and start again.
There is no meditation apart from wisdom.

Those whose hearts are in a state of repose give forth a divine radiance.

He who is Rich in control renounces everything.

Truth Honesty, just, pure, lovely, of good report, if there be any virtue and any praise, think of these things. Give thanks for what you have.

Meditate on thy own Lord in thine own mind with humility and do not create warfare.

Sit and be still.

Good one, Whosoever among men attains greatness, they have, as it were, part of the reward of meditation, Reverence, Respect.

So there you go. by meditating on the word and staying out of ego and power trips, thou shalt be unaffected by the world.

Keep things simple folks,

Drink the water, eat the food. Want for nothing, fulfill your desires and remember, I pray, that you can’t eat Sunday Dinner without Gravy, it is too damn dry lololol  Grace!!!

How can you have any pudding if you don’t eat your meat. Well i can tell you that it all does not matter in the end in the great scale of things. Atoms move, molecules combine, just be and accept.

Do not harry warfare for warfare sake as you waste your time and energy.

The true key is just to think twice and feel that you have made the right decision.

Spiritual and physiological ping pong.

Ah Flob a LOb a LOB,  Little WEEEEED. I am not a flower pot man and some of you should leave my friends alone ok?                                 You know who you are.

Peace and respect will bring you to bliss beyond any imagined feelings of fear.

I retire to eat, laters folks. I pray i woke some of you up and put some light and meaning back into your existences. lololol

Black feline cat, sees in two watch towers with two lanterns at the same time. This is deception. For to worship two Gods at the same time is Mammon.
The Egyptians used these tools as slavery the same as governments and agencies use Methadone as social control.

How can you sell cakes in the Church. lolol

Get the Syrians out of your camp.

Ok enough for now. you are all welcome to comment but remember the truth hurts.

Out of my own ignorance today, cos i thought someone was sincere, I was robbed. no matter i shall replace it. It was only a chattel. But I shall ask and see of the person to see what they will try and use to protect themselves. The ring was a silver three pence piece set in a crown. ah sweet charity. You carry no chain, my love my Sweat.;
It was given me by a departed friend as remembrance.

Come sit Partake, Refresh, drink, BE!!!  Sated:)

At last I am a Warrior mighty in Battle.      Dinner:)’

Selah’

Paul:)

Strength, Power, Honour, Respect. Be good to yourselves people and remember self love is not selfish. You do not need Warfare for Warfare sake.’!!!    Peace’

_________________________________________________________________
Be the first to hear what’s new at MSN – sign up to our free newsletters! http://www.msn.co.uk/newsletters

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From: “Mark Corcoran” <mcorcoran27@hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] this day a year ago…
Date: April 6, 2006 at 7:17:30 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

This day a year ago I was buying 5 bags of dope… they were my last.
Words couldn’t describe how grateful I feel to be one of the lucky few.
Howard, Eric, Dana, Chris & D., My mom, Ali, Joe and Shirl…and moonbeam, dodi, Rocky, Randy’s, tink, Patrick, Dr. Ken, Kurt, Tink, Sara, Adam, Eddie, Preston, the Queens Crew, and everyone else out there, Thank you from the bottom of my heart.
I know its only 365 days but its a milestone and i’m pretty fuckin happy to have reached it. I’m also kinda happy to put this year behind me. As anyone I mentioned b4 can attest to, I totally unraveled emotionally after my last session and had to completely start over. In a nut shell, I’m kinda lucky I’m alive after the year I’ve had. But I really have kinda hung in there and pushed though a lot of the uncomfortable shit and I can’t say exactly when things started to click but they did…or they are. I’m far from the pictue of health but I really do continue to get a little better all the time. Two steps forward one step back kinda thing I guess. But one year ago today I wanted to die and now i’m pretty fuckin happy to be alive.
This stuff is somethin else.

> From: jiggy9@hotmail.co.uk
> To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
> Date: Thu, 6 Apr 2006 21:23:39 +0100
> Subject: [Ibogaine] Looking to mud and gold with an equal eye;)’~
> 
> 
> Good Evening to all you people, love and respect to most but,
> Ok all you great Men who think they know it all. how does this sit with you. 
> you all seem to be greedy little men. ok Judge and be judged but you play 
> and tally. Listen i pray and listen good. there are seven paths that any man 
> may walk, through masculine and feminine existence with self. You seek 
> enlightenment. you have the divine writings, but you do not practice them.
> So i shall refresh your memories. OK!!! ‘I’ I am a MAN, not a Robot and 
> therefore feel and see and hear and touch and love and fulfill my desires 
> there is no want within my kingdom. I feel you are many greedy little men of 
> lusts that only want to control.
> Pray read and start again.
> There is no meditation apart from wisdom.
> 
> Those whose hearts are in a state of repose give forth a divine radiance.
> 
> He who is Rich in control renounces everything.
> 
> Truth Honesty, just, pure, lovely, of good report, if there be any virtue 
> and any praise, think of these things. Give thanks for what you have.
> 
> Meditate on thy own Lord in thine own mind with humility and do not create 
> warfare.
> 
> Sit and be still.
> 
> Good one, Whosoever among men attains greatness, they have, as it were, part 
> of the reward of meditation, Reverence, Respect.
> 
> So there you go. by meditating on the word and staying out of ego and power 
> trips, thou shalt be unaffected by the world.
> 
> Keep things simple folks,
> 
> Drink the water, eat the food. Want for nothing, fulfill your desires and 
> remember, I pray, that you can’t eat Sunday Dinner without Gravy, it is too 
> damn dry lololol  Grace!!!
> 
> How can you have any pudding if you don’t eat your meat. Well i can tell you 
> that it all does not matter in the end in the great scale of things. Atoms 
> move, molecules combine, just be and accept.
> 
> Do not harry warfare for warfare sake as you waste your time and energy.
> 
> The true key is just to think twice and feel that you have made the right 
> decision.
> 
> Spiritual and physiological ping pong.
> 
> 
> Ah Flob a LOb a LOB,  Little WEEEEED. I am not a flower pot man and some of 
> you should leave my friends alone ok?                                 You 
> know who you are.
> 
> Peace and respect will bring you to bliss beyond any imagined feelings of 
> fear.
> 
> I retire to eat, laters folks. I pray i woke some of you up and put some 
> light and meaning back into your existences. lololol
> 
> Black feline cat, sees in two watch towers with two lanterns at the same 
> time. This is deception. For to worship two Gods at the same time is Mammon.
> The Egyptians used these tools as slavery the same as governments and 
> agencies use Methadone as social control.
> 
> How can you sell cakes in the Church. lolol
> 
> Get the Syrians out of your camp.
> 
> Ok enough for now. you are all welcome to comment but remember the truth 
> hurts.
> 
> Out of my own ignorance today, cos i thought someone was sincere, I was 
> robbed. no matter i shall replace it. It was only a chattel. But I shall ask 
> and see of the person to see what they will try and use to protect 
> themselves. The ring was a silver three pence piece set in a crown. ah sweet 
> charity. You carry no chain, my love my Sweat.;
> It was given me by a departed friend as remembrance.
> 
> Come sit Partake, Refresh, drink, BE!!!  Sated:)
> 
>                        At last I am a Warrior mighty in Battle.      
> Dinner:)’
> 
> Selah’
> 
>                                                       Paul:)
> 
> Strength, Power, Honour, Respect. Be good to yourselves people and remember 
> self love is not selfish. You do not need Warfare for Warfare sake.’!!!    
> Peace’
> 
> _________________________________________________________________
> Be the first to hear what’s new at MSN – sign up to our free newsletters! 
> http://www.msn.co.uk/newsletters
> 
> 
> 
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>

From: nruhtra@dsskcorp.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] absorbing various forms ov energy
Date: April 6, 2006 at 7:15:45 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Cc: vox@mindvox.com, crashtestdummies@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

2012 aint g0t shit on me.
sum f0t0s from late 2005 from central american mayan sites.. .

tikal:
http://dsskcorp.com/ibidem/fotographia/centralamerica-late2005/guatemala/tikal/

copan:
http://dsskcorp.com/ibidem/fotographia/centralamerica-late2005/honduras/copan/

fun.

oxycolton.

ps – this place wuz fukn dangerous:
http://dsskcorp.com/ibidem/fotographia/centralamerica-late2005/honduras/c$%20comayaguela.jpg

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From: “Billy J” <billjohnson6@sympatico.ca>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Awsome Preston, Going Places
Date: April 6, 2006 at 7:08:56 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Excellent testimonie Pres. i do appreciate your time and words. I haven’t followed your links yet but will respond after I do.
I am hoping to get a Ibogaine session soon, and to become a part of the “elite” Ibo’s.
I must first save a little $$ after I have finished making some sound Plans as to a direction I will be on afterwards. You see I feel that this is it for me, either I do this thing, (get clean) via Ibogaine and all you Good people,( because people are a source of strenght for me) as well as a support system or something.
I am not sure where I am anymore. It seems that I have gotten to a point in life that I have a hard time finding purpose and or any significant meaning, as to what I am here for. Not that I am majorally depressed or anything like that I Have a great wife, kids, a cat (no cattle) lol and I don’t know, I think that maybe this methadone thing for the last 1.5 years or so has somehow squashed my personal drive.
So for now I want to say thanks again for the testimonie, because you have lifted up my hopes that even worst case synario?? I will be better off after a session of Ibogaine.
As I was driving home from work today I was already thinking about my second and or third dose/session of Ibogaine- funny eh!
I’ll go noew and finish reading the posts and then check out your links, I also am interested in writing as well, so I would like to see how a person is to get something posted over the Net like I guess you have.

Later for now Preston,
O ya, I really like the way you responded to my last post,(point  for point).
As far as George Goes , Yes from what I have seen(heard) I do like him, I do not like people being tortured, hurt maimed, Humiliated (Interigations) and the like. I am not even of the thought that maybe what his Gov. has done maybe the lesser of 2 evils. ??? I am not sure if Suddan Hussien was still in power, how many people would have been killed by now under his regime for the same period of time?? I know It doesn’t make it right (fighting) but yes I do believe that if you do see someone beating up on your neighbor or you are walking down the street and someone is getting hurt that WE should do something (help) first, and ask Questions latter. And if I have made a mistake then at least it was for what I though was right.
If you were visiting my country or me yours it should be the same humane rules.
And just because a woman is the one who carries a baby why should she be the one that gets to choose who lives or dies, George Bush shouldn’t and niether shoul a woman, Its her body yes,but lets not be confused as to her rights to her body and a helpless childs right to its body, you see when the child is born she can then give up the baby, why should — never mind – I do not want trouble on this terrific list, and I have only seen a live taped abortion, and the baby was indeed fighting for its life as its was being suched out , first its leg then an arm was ripped off and it was still fighting, yet it had no feelings I guess.
P.s. If she was that worried then maybe she should Masterbate or obstain or we should just teach our children to obstain until they are ready for the comitment and possible concequences of their choices, rather than after. Like Me.

Sorry about the long good bye,
Bill,

—-Original Message Follows—-
From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] (OT!!!!!) Re: [Ibogaine] : Git?Pro-Life?
Date: Thu, 6 Apr 2006 10:26:53 -0400
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Can we try to hold the name calling down a notch, it gets to be rather
personal, and I do not need any excuse to be a GIT ( new word for me today),<

Ok Bill, sure. I apologize for getting personal. I’ve been having a major issue with patience recently, and it seems to be doing a lot more harm than good, being impatient. It’s a real difficult thing for me suddenly, and I’m not exactly sure why I’m being this way, so short fused and such, but I am trying to keep myself in check, even if I’m not apparently doing such a great job of it as of late.

but I would just like to see people realize
that if I am at least TRYING and they are trying then it (any good effort)
would mor likely be won with a little honey rather than  vinager.<

Yeah, I agree, even taking my recent impatience issues into account.

Would it not be logical that I would be the one
that doesn’t want to see People die in Iraq?, and you would technically say
that George W Bush can choose (with his Cronies) anything they want and it
is his right?<

I would think you’d be supportive of saving the lives of all living creatures Bill, if you do consider yourself “pro-life,” but the impression I got from your post was that you were supportive of Bush and that the troops are somehow “protecting” us here in the US by killing and being killed in Iraq.
Bush “choosing” to kill others, is not in my mind something that is “cool” to choose, in that by doing so he isn’t choosing for himself, he’s choosing for everyone, including those dying by his decisions. It’s no ones right in my mind to infringe upon, brutalize or murder others. I consider a pregnant woman’s body to be hers to do with as she chooses, until birth.  At that point we have another “person” enter the picture. Before then, it’s her body and her decision. In my mind anyway. Those being killed by Bush have their own choices and rights and Bush doesn’t in my mind have the right to erase them.

Lets just keep looking for answers and try to word things in such a way to
direct people to do good<

Ok, you are right. I’ve been letting myself get way out of any rational state lately, flying off the nandle over imagined AND real slights, things I shouldn’t and can chose not to let affect me thusly. So I do again apologize for my tone, to you and to the list.
I think I need to do some lurking or something.

And thanks for the article.<

You’re welcome.
;-))

Have a Great day Preston.
and Have you taken  Ibogaine <

Yes:

http://www.drugwar.com/pkickingdrugswithdrugs.shtm
Kicking Drugs with Drugs-
Taking the Left Hand Path
By Preston Peet
For DrugWar.com
Posted August 12, 2004
snip-

http://www.drugwar.com/lefthandpath2.shtm
Taking the Left Hand Path.
Again
By
Preston Peet
posted at DrugWar.com
April 19, 2005
(Remember Waco!)

http://www.drugwar.com/sitwchap29.shtm

Something in the Way-
an excerpt
Chapter 29-
The Entheogenic Bed and Breakfast Detox-
An Amsterdam Redux
by Preston Peet
all photos by Preston Peet
unless otherwise noted
posted at DrugWar.com
Feb. 20, 2006
snip-
—-
Yet, If so are you clean today?<

I still use opiate-based pain medication(s) for chronic pain problems. That said, I use them entirely as prescribed (often less than), still, and see no negative changes coming this time, at this point, in my use of them. I might be unduly optimistic, but can’t help it. I feel so much differently than ever before, about my pain and the use of pain meds both. Whether I’m fooling myself or not, only time, and my own decisions, will tell. Still, I can honestly say that ibogaine has allowed me to make drastic changes in the way I behave, treat myself and those around me (other than for the aforementioned and acknowleged issue with lack of patience lately) and I don’t regret finally taking it at all, even the number of times I’ve now taken it at one dose or another (I think I’m up to seven times now total, in either extremely small doses or full on treatment sized doses. I’ve since learned that this isn’t even uncommon, that many folk find they need more than one or two or more treatments to “get it” finally.)
So again, my apologies to the list for my outraged, impatient posts. I’ve got other things to worry about, so admit I’m wasting tons of energy on things I cannot change and on being nasty, which only leaves me feeling more unsettled, if I’m not careful.
Please have a good day all.

—–
“If God dropped acid, would he see people?”  ~Steven Wright

Peace, love and lotsof respect.
Preston

—– Original Message —– From: “Billy J” <billjohnson6@sympatico.ca>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Thursday, April 06, 2006 9:51 AM
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] (OT!!!!!) Re: [Ibogaine] : Git?Pro-Life?

hey Preston,
Homophob here,
just a rebuttal.
I would just like to make it clear about spreading hatred, It is WORDS, that do that, Here I am a unrecovered Drug addict,trying (not that hard I guess) to get staight, and when someone says nasty things about ?? I have a Hard time to get them out of my so simple brain.
I definetly and honestly do not mean any DISRESPECT to Dana, and I am sorry If I came across that way, You see I am learning how to communicate and trying to make a little differance in my little world, So back on topic,
Can we try to hold the name calling down a notch, it gets to be rather personal, and I do not need any excuse to be a GIT ( new word for me today), I am wjat I am and if it means to be a shield for a fellow human being (not a animal but a 2 legged) then so be it.
Dana I would gladly CLIC on an effort to help stop ANY bloodshed or any Lying Fascist or what have you, but I would just like to see people realize that if I am at least TRYING and they are trying then it (any good effort) would mor likely be won with a little honey rather than  vinager.
One more thing, If I am Pro-Life (I think that is reffering to helping someone stay alive) and you are Pro-Choice, (technically meaning doing away with a Blob?Baby?Feotus?) Would it not be logical that I would be the one that doesn’t want to see People die in Iraq?, and you would technically say that George W Bush can choose (with his Cronies) anything they want and it is his right?
You see (I am now shaking) It is really starting to look like WHAT IS WRONG HAS BECOME RIGHT AND WHAT IS RIGHT IS NOW WRONG??
Lets just keep looking for answers and try to word things in such a way to direct people to do good and not be totally influenced by someone that may appear to have more intelligence than they.
And thanks for the article.

I am hear to get a life and not loose it.
I want to get off dope and to stop being a dope so If I ever am wrong (as I think I was in my previous words) then please try to remember that I was born Human.

Have a Great day Preston.
and Have you taken  Ibogaine Yet, If so are you clean today?

Billy The human today
(finally got my Meth 45 minutes ago)
snip-

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From: “Paul Brookshaw” <jiggy9@hotmail.co.uk>
Subject: [Ibogaine] Looking to mud and gold with an equal eye;)’~
Date: April 6, 2006 at 4:23:39 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Good Evening to all you people, love and respect to most but,
Ok all you great Men who think they know it all. how does this sit with you. you all seem to be greedy little men. ok Judge and be judged but you play and tally. Listen i pray and listen good. there are seven paths that any man may walk, through masculine and feminine existence with self. You seek enlightenment. you have the divine writings, but you do not practice them.
So i shall refresh your memories. OK!!! ‘I’ I am a MAN, not a Robot and therefore feel and see and hear and touch and love and fulfill my desires there is no want within my kingdom. I feel you are many greedy little men of lusts that only want to control.
Pray read and start again.
There is no meditation apart from wisdom.

Those whose hearts are in a state of repose give forth a divine radiance.

He who is Rich in control renounces everything.

Truth Honesty, just, pure, lovely, of good report, if there be any virtue and any praise, think of these things. Give thanks for what you have.

Meditate on thy own Lord in thine own mind with humility and do not create warfare.

Sit and be still.

Good one, Whosoever among men attains greatness, they have, as it were, part of the reward of meditation, Reverence, Respect.

So there you go. by meditating on the word and staying out of ego and power trips, thou shalt be unaffected by the world.

Keep things simple folks,

Drink the water, eat the food. Want for nothing, fulfill your desires and remember, I pray, that you can’t eat Sunday Dinner without Gravy, it is too damn dry lololol  Grace!!!

How can you have any pudding if you don’t eat your meat. Well i can tell you that it all does not matter in the end in the great scale of things. Atoms move, molecules combine, just be and accept.

Do not harry warfare for warfare sake as you waste your time and energy.

The true key is just to think twice and feel that you have made the right decision.

Spiritual and physiological ping pong.

Ah Flob a LOb a LOB,  Little WEEEEED. I am not a flower pot man and some of you should leave my friends alone ok?                                 You know who you are.

Peace and respect will bring you to bliss beyond any imagined feelings of fear.

I retire to eat, laters folks. I pray i woke some of you up and put some light and meaning back into your existences. lololol

Black feline cat, sees in two watch towers with two lanterns at the same time. This is deception. For to worship two Gods at the same time is Mammon.
The Egyptians used these tools as slavery the same as governments and agencies use Methadone as social control.

How can you sell cakes in the Church. lolol

Get the Syrians out of your camp.

Ok enough for now. you are all welcome to comment but remember the truth hurts.

Out of my own ignorance today, cos i thought someone was sincere, I was robbed. no matter i shall replace it. It was only a chattel. But I shall ask and see of the person to see what they will try and use to protect themselves. The ring was a silver three pence piece set in a crown. ah sweet charity. You carry no chain, my love my Sweat.;
It was given me by a departed friend as remembrance.

Come sit Partake, Refresh, drink, BE!!!  Sated:)

At last I am a Warrior mighty in Battle.      Dinner:)’

Selah’

Paul:)

Strength, Power, Honour, Respect. Be good to yourselves people and remember self love is not selfish. You do not need Warfare for Warfare sake.’!!!    Peace’

_________________________________________________________________
Be the first to hear what’s new at MSN – sign up to our free newsletters! http://www.msn.co.uk/newsletters

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From: Kirk <captkirk@clear.net.nz>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] (ot) Fw: ghosts in the mist
Date: April 6, 2006 at 4:16:16 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Thx Preston!!
I was a little wound up this morning, but that was so nice n soothing.
Think I can go lie down now for a while……
CK

—–Original Message—–
From: Preston Peet [mailto:ptpeet@nyc.rr.com]
Sent: Thursday, 6 April 2006 10:30 p.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com; drugwar@mindvox.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] (ot) Fw: ghosts in the mist

This is pretty off topic, but hey, we all get our buzzes in different ways.
Right?
Remember you need to read the story first, then turn your volume up so you
can hear “the cameraman whispering” about the ghost.
;-0))

—–
“If God dropped acid, would he see people?”  ~Steven Wright

Peace, love and lotsof respect.
Preston Peet
ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor Underground- the Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations,
Astonishing Archaeology and Hidden History
Editor Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Columnist HighTimes mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —–
From: Gabriela Vuichoud
Sent: Thursday, April 06, 2006 2:38 AM
Subject: ghosts in the mist

You MUST READ THE STORY BEFORE WATCHING THE VIDEO – volume required

Strange but interesting.
This is a car advertisement from Great Britain.
When they finished filming the ad, the film editor noticed something
moving along the side of the car, like a ghostly white mist. They found out
that a person had been killed a year earlier in that exact same spot.

The ad was never put on TV because of the unexplained ghostly
phenomenon.

Watch the front end of the car as it clears the trees in the middle of
the screen and you’ll see the white mist crossing in front of the car then
following it along the road….Spooky!

Is it a ghost, or is it simply mist? You decide.

If you listen to the ad, you’ll even hear the cameraman whispering in
the background about it near the end of the commercial.

CLINIQUE LA PRAIRIE
Gabriela Vuichoud
snip-

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From: “Tyler Case” <tfc2101@columbia.edu>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] OT! Eating cattle or food
Date: April 6, 2006 at 3:24:36 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Preston, I like your analogy to addiction.  Of course, its different because we’re not talking about continuosly doing something despite knowledge of personal harm (though there are some harms in eating a lot of meat, and of course some extrapersonal harm in many cases of addiction), but rather compassion for another, which takes some effort to muster (until you change your diet and it becomes habitual).

To take AA’s approach, we can look at it one meal at a time.  Think how tasty a plate of fried chicken would be right now.  Think about the sensual satisfaction you would experience while eating it, and for those few blissful minutes after you’ve finished the plate before you start thinking about food again.   Then think about the chicken who had to suffer from hatching to maturity only to be chopped up, deep fried and served with honey mustard.  The ratio of Fried Chicken serving: Chicken is only about 2:1.  Is it really worth it to sacrifice a chicken every 2 times you want some KFC, which will cause only temporary satisfaction and some detrament to health?   To me, anyone who seriously considers this logically will see that is out of balance, but then again the urge to eat meat is probably strong enough to tilt the balance back in the direction of carnivory in most cases.  I don’t think its that humans are cold-hearted, its that we’re detached from the process.  The process would have a lot more salience if you had to go out and kill the chicken yourself.  I actually don’t feel so terrible about people hunting down a deer (which doesn’t suffer its entire life) and eating it, as long as they don’t waste it.  I admit that if I was starving and the only thing around was a rabbit, I would probably chuck a rock at it and cook it up to stay alive, but that is a lot different than treating an animal as a factory-produced pleasure to be enjoyed several times a day.  We don’t really think about our food because we don’t have to, and that’s dangerous.

Defenders of eating meat often say that human life is worth more than an animal’s life.  And while that may be right, or at least difficult to argue against, it is not a realistic reflection of the process.  A thoughtful meat-eater should instead say that “The satisfaction of eating two meals is worth more than animal’s life.”  Or “A human life with burgers and fried chicken is worth more than 10,000 animals’ lives and suffering.”  Don’t hold me to the math, but I’m sure you get the idea.

Tyler

On 4/6/06, Nick Sandberg <nick227@tiscali.co.uk> wrote:
Alan,

Personally, I don’t think you give a shit about animals. Seems to me like it’s just a lever you use to condemn people. You’re riddled with trips you can’t own yet and so you just project them randomly on people by starting little arguments everywhere, giving you the opportunity to lay in to them with a bit of condemnation. Well, that’s not so bad but I don’t feel anything in you like you give a shit. It’s just like a giant mind firing off into space. Can’t go anywhere, man.

Nick

From: Alan Hehe [mailto:a.h.veil68@hotmail.com] 
Sent: 06 April 2006 00:00 
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] OT! Eating cattle or food

 

Jon–
I hope you are kidding about brocolli feeling pain. That must be put there for a laugh.
This will probably be my last post, so I will say this: From debating in high school and different forums, and just from alot of research, I’ve learned one thing beyond any doubt: Anyone can make an argument, for or against, any idea, belief, or position–often using the same data. If you believe eating meat is okay, you will tend to gather evidence to support your belief, and exclude evidence that negates it. If you believe eating meat is wrong, the same is true. It’s not so much that I believe eating meat itself is wrong, it’s more that I feel we’re holding ourselves back from evolving spiritually and emotionally, from finding peace, by the way we treat our “food”–which is living, breathing, caring animals who are put to death and kept in the most inhumane fashions possible, all because we believe we are better than them, and since they are “only food”, it doesn’t matter how they are treated. But if you lock a cute little dog in a hot car for half a day, you can go to jail for that. We only want to save the cute animals. But we think nothin of the bull who gets his balls cut off with a knife without a drop of painkiller…and we’re egotistic enough to say..”ahh, he doesn’t feel anything.” But yet people like Bill are sure like a foetus, even though it’s C.N.S. isn’t even developed, the nerve endings aren’t formed yet, it must be going through agony.
So, you can make an argument for just about anything…but you have to live with the consequences if you turn out to be wrong.

From:   jon@mindvox.com

Reply-To:  ibogaine@mindvox.com
To:  ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject:  Re: [Ibogaine] OT! Eating cattle or food
Date:  Wed, 5 Apr 2006 16:05:29 -0400 (EDT)
>
>Well, ok… I’ll go through this point by point…
>
>Not all plants feel pain, but some do… e.g., broccoli. Likewise, while
>most animals do feel pain, not all do.. e.g. assorted types of shellfish.
>Again, the line between plant and animal is not as clear cut as people
>make it out to be.
>
>As for the heart attacks, it is true that meat-eaters are more likely to
>suffer from that, as well as from assorted food poisonings and infections
>transmitted by tainted meat. But non-meat-eaters are more likely to suffer
>from depression, anemia, and assorted other ailments. So, it’s a trade
>off.
>
>Your argument about our digestive system is completely off base. It’s
>actually easier for humans (and other primates) to digest meat than to
>digest plant matter. The main reason is that plant cells have tough cell
>walls, while animal cells do not. Our digestive system is not set up to
>get optimal nutrition from plants; for that we would need a digestive
>system more similar to a cow (i.e., multiple stomachs, cud-chewing, longer
>intenstines, etc.) This is why, for example, when you eat corn it comes
>out whole at the other end. Humans are not especially good at digesting
>most plant matter.
>
>Based purely on our biology, humans are set up to be omnivores.  This is
>because our digestive system has characterstics of both carnivores (e.g. a
>single stomach and canines) and herbivores (e.g. molars). The length of
>our digestive system is much shorter than that of pure herbivores, but
>longer than that of pure carnivores. Optimal human nutrition is best
>acheived by eating a balanced diet of animals and plants.
>
>I do conceed that the way industrialised nations go about farming meat is
>pretty brutal. But then, so is the way industrialised nations go about
>farming plants as well.
>
>And so is the way industrialised nations do most things, for that matter..
>
>
> >   Hey–
> >    Just wanted to say that, asides from clams or mussells maybe, plants do
> > not have a C>N>S and do not experience pain like animals, who have pain
> > receptors just like we do. Also, there are other reasons for not eating
> > meat: like health reasons…Meat eaters have about a 35-40% chance of
> > dying from a heart attack do their diet, while vegetarians only have
> > about 5% chance. That’s quite a difference.
> >      Furthermore–yes, plants are alive! That’s the whole idea! You only
> > obtain true life energy from living things! The meat you eat has been
> > dead for God only knows how long, has very little nutritional value.
> > Also, because we have a digestive track that’s over 20 feet long,
> > alot of the meat you eat rots in your intestines, releasing all kinds
> > of nasty toxins. In addition, when animals are slaughtered in the
> > mass murder method we use, they’re not so stupid that they don’t know
> > what’s going on…Animals (just like the animal called a dog) are
> > very keen at sensing fear, not just within us, but within their own
> > ranks. As they approach their death, they are terrified, and release
> > a multitude of chemicals into their bloodstreams, which, when we eat,
> > have an effect on us…mainly anger and fear, which are closely
> > linked.
> >     Well, I have to go…You have the choice to eat whatever you want..I
> > used to eat meat, and still do occasionally…but I swear to you that
> > I feel a hundred times lighter since I started eating less meat, and
> > alot more full of life. And if you don’t think I know what I’m talking
> > about, here a guy that was kinda smart, and his take on vegetarianism
> > vs. eating meat:
> > “Nothing will benefit health and increase the chances of survival of life
> > on Earth as the evoloution to a vegetarian diet..”—Albert Einstein.
> >
> >      From:  jon@mindvox.com
> > Reply-To:  ibogaine@mindvox.com
> > To:   ibogaine@mindvox.com
> > Subject:  Re: [Ibogaine] OT! Eating cattle or food
> > Date:  Wed, 5 Apr 2006 14:24:56 -0400 (EDT)
> >>potatoes have eyes too =P
> >>
> >>i remember this punk song about how silly it is that vegetarians, for
> >>example, don’t eat clams… because clams have essentially the same kind
> >>of nervous system as broccoli and cauliflower…
> >>
> >>the line between plant and animal is not an entirely clear one.. and the
> >>decision to eat plants but not animals seems to me a pretty arbitrary
> >> one.
> >>plants are living, breathing, and to some degree, thinking creatures as
> >>well. but they get no love from PETA…
> >>
> >>i guess my basic point is.. eat whatever you’re  comfortable with. but

> >>realise that whatever you eat, ANYTHING you eat, inflicts suffering on
> >>some creature.
> >>
> >>such is the nature of life.
> >>
> >>
> >>ahaha… speaking of PETA, i saw the best bumper sticker a couple weeks
> >>ago….eheh… it said:
> >>
> >>”PETA – People Eating Tasty Animals”
> >>
> >>=)
> >>
> >>oh, and one more thing… as for the whole pet vs. food argument… i
> >> know
> >>for a fact that if my cat ever got the chance, he would totally eat me.
> >> so
> >>i don’t wanna hear it.. =P
> >>
> >>
> >> > for me eating meat in a society where it’s unnecessary merely promotes
> >> the
> >> > fear/bloodthirsty addiction so prevalent in the Western world. I can
> >> see
> >> > eating meat in a society where there are no alternatives, but where I
> >> live
> >> > it’s easy to not eat meat, and I’m  glad.
> >> > I still do dairy and eggs, but can’t eat anything that might lick it’s
> >> > fellow beings, or nuzzle them, or communicate in any way, shape or
> >> form
> >> > with
> >> > one another, even chickens (which I’ve been told are ok to eat because
> >> > “they’re stupid.” If that were the only criteria for being ok to eat,
> >> I’d
> >> > be
> >> > a cannibal). Again, this is only my own viewpoint, but there seems to
> >> be
> >> > something unenlightened, to me, how some folk can have “pets” but call
> >> > cattle mere “food,” making no connection to the living, breathing,
> >> > thinking
> >> > creatures sharing the planet with us.
> >> >
> >> > Butt, and it’s a great big butt, I can’t really fault anyone for their
> >> > eating habits beyond stating how I personally feel, particularly about
> >> >  factory farming, inhumane treatment of our “food” and the wonton
> >> slaughter
> >> > of living creatures when it isn’t necessary for our survival, only to
> >> feed
> >> > our addiction to blood and flesh these days (Of course one couuld take
> >> > this
> >> > to extreme and tell me plants are also living, but I limit my empathy
> >> and
> >> > eating ban to beings with eys I guess).
> >> >     That’s because I’m…pro-choice at heart.
> >> >
> >> > —–
> >> > “If God dropped acid, would he see people?”  ~Steven Wright
> >> >
> >> > Peace, love and lotsof respect.
> >> > Preston Peet
> >> > ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
> >> > Editor Underground- the Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations,
> >> > Astonishing Archaeology and Hidden History
> >> > Editor Under the Influence- the  Disinformation Guide to Drugs
> >> > Editor http://www.drugwar.com
> >> > Columnist HighTimes mag/.com
> >> > Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
> >> > Columnist New York Waste
> >> > Etc.
> >> >
> >> > —– Original Message —–
> >> > From: Crooked Eye
> >> > To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
> >> > Sent: Tuesday, April 04, 2006 3:53 AM
> >> > Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Whats a Republican?
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > Cow’s are tasty…  If we aren’t supposed to eat animals, then why are
> >> > they
> >> > made out of meat?  😀  I fail how to see eating cows equates to
> >> racism…
> >> > I
> >> > eat a lot of cows, but I have a mixed family…  If it makes you feel
> >> any
> >> > better we eat a lot of chickens, too..  I love turkey, the  tryptophan
> >> > makes
> >> > me sleepy…
> >> >
> >> > Alan Hehe  wrote:
> >> >    Don’t call me Baby…well, you can…since you’re not close enough
> >> for
> >> > me
> >> > to do anything about it! Plus, that’s a freedom, too…Just like my
> >> > ability
> >> > to talk about pro-choice. As for your information, no, I don’t think
> >> the
> >> > way
> >> > the abortion system is set up–but I absolutely believe in having the
> >> > right…And no, you don’t have 9 months to decide whether to have the
> >> rug
> >> > rat or not–there is a cut-off, a limit to when abortions can be
> >> > performed.
> >> >      And so you think, because cows aren’t pets, or aren’t ‘cute’,
> >> then
> >> > it’s
> >> > okay to torture them?  And to cut the balls of bulls off without any
> >> > anesthetic? To make chickens live in a cage so small they can barely
> >> turn
> >> > around? And George Bush–wanting to save lives! LOL! That’s the
> >> biggest
> >> > joke
> >> > I’ve ever heard! But it figures; you’re not special..alot of the
> >> people in
> >> > this country are brain-washed by the constant disinformation they are
> >> > fed….Why do you think there are a hundred commercials warning of the
> >> > dangers of marijuana, one of the least harmful drugs known to man, but
> >> yet
> >> > maybe one out of those hundred about the truly dangerous drugs, like H
> >> or
> >> > Coke?
> >> >        And you don’t have to be a hindu to have compassion for animals
> >> > other
> >> > than cats and dogs, you dumb-ass red-neck! In some places  they eat
> >> > dogs…would that be okay if they ate your dog? You know, I’m totally
> >> > wasting my time talking to you, I can already tell that you are way
> >> > undereducated, extremely prejudiced. Cows are just food. Are blacks
> >> just
> >> > niggers, too? God, I can’t stand fuckin’ red-necks like you,
> >> especially
> >> > the
> >> > ones that actually think they’re smart. Once you start doing away with
> >> > freedoms, it’s all down-hill. Who’s going to decide what’s right and
> >> > wrong?
> >> > You?! I would happily put a hollow-point 45 shell into my head if that
> >> > possibility existed..of course G.W.B. is quite the redneck himself,
> >> which
> >> > is
> >> > why you probably like him. First of all, HE’s not fighting for
> >> anything. I
> >> > have respect for the soldiers; they don’t decide the mission,  they
> >> just do
> >> > what they’re told. And how many babies do you think die while we were
> >> > waging
> >> > a war we were totally lied to about? Or is that okay? You think the
> >> babies
> >> > over there even know what a terrorist is? This world is already
> >> > over-populated..if people like you ran things, the world would run out
> >> of
> >> > resources within a decade! The oh so precious children! Everyone
> >> starts
> >> > out
> >> > as a child..some people, like you, remain one, in their minds, their
> >> whole
> >> > life. But those sweet children often grow up to be killers and
> >> rapists,
> >> > and
> >> > often for no apparent reason!  Strong belief does only one thing:
> >> close
> >> > your
> >> > mind. Boy, that ibogaine is gonna have fun with you!!!!! Cows are just
> >> > food!
> >> > Well, we’re  just food, too…if a grizzly decides you look good! God,
> >> what
> >> > egotism!  You claim to be a Christian (I do not) but you must have
> >> misssed
> >> > the part about not judging lest you be judged yourself…And I bet
> >> ibo’s
> >> > gonna drive that one home with a psychoactive sledgehammer! You’ve got
> >> > your
> >> > response, but I really no longer wish to talk with you. I’ve spent too
> >> > much
> >> > time arguing with all the fascists on this list, instead of hanging
> >> out
> >> > with
> >> > the cool, in the know ,people: by that meaning knowing that the whole
> >> > Govt.
> >> > is totally corrupt, actually controlled by a few wealthy and extremely
> >> > powerful people, and they constantly just feed us disinformation,
> >> while
> >> > manipulating the world through economic control, etc, and alot  of
> >> other
> >> > things you wouldn’t understand. BYE< NOW, Billy BOY. Go get a burger!
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > From:  “Billy J”
> >> > Reply-To:   ibogaine@mindvox.com
> >> > To:  ibogaine@mindvox.com
> >> > Subject:  RE: [Ibogaine] Whats a Republican?
> >> > Date:  Tue, 04 Apr 2006 02:19:25 -0400
> >> >>Hear this peace and take it to your Heart FRIEND.
> >> >>1st if we go back to Killing kids for the sins of their fathers
> >> >>(Child of a Rapist) Do you think that is more civilized then Raising
> >> >>Cattle for food,(Cattle are food “not Pets”) although you may be
> >> >>from India or somewhere that they worship your cows and even there
> >> >>fecal matter I hear!  Now if your are at that junkger(Place) then I
> >> >>will have to say -well Al, Bless you, but when was the last time you
> >> >>had your precious cow go to war for YOUR FREEDOMS that I am sure you
> >> >>are enjoying- Yes?
> >> >>   Allan , do you really love cows (the 4 legged ones that is) or
> >> >>are you in your 2nd or 3rd reincarnation and you where once a cow
> >> >>and you have come into this wierd mooing stage and you just could
> >> >>not figure it out.
> >> >>  Ok That is sarcasm – Sorry< I’ll get serious.
> >> >>Oh Ya Your aborting a fetus-, and yes I know that in the USof A
> >> >>being the most civilized Nation that has usually voted anti-
> >> >>Christian ( just in case somebody didn’t let Everybody do what FEELs
> >> >>GOOD)
> >>  >>Ya you can Have sex with anybody you want and then if a girl gets
> >> >>pregnant, or do you call it fetus something, oh well  so shes
> >> >>pregnant you have 9 months to decide whether or not you what the
> >> >>little BLOB Because your fetus can be kicking up a storm and as long
> >> >>as you can keep its stupid( oh it,s brain isn’t functioning yet
> >> >>,right) well as long as you can keep its head inside the grown up
> >> >>fetus ( that would be the female, The pregnant one, knocked up one ,
> >> >>dumb one what ever you would call someone like that ( Maybe MOM)
> >> >>well just reach in and CRUSH ITS SCULL and or STICK A SYRINGE INTO
> >> >>THe Back of it HEAD JUST UNTIL ITS STOPS PUTTINGN UP A FIGHT, AND
> >> >>they do fight Allan, just go and ask your abortion doctor.–  PARTIAL
> >> >>BIRTH ABORTION– VERY NICE–
> >> >>  oH YA AND YOU KNOW WHAT ALLY BABY THAT STUPID WAR MOGER THAT YOU
> >> >>HAVE AS A PRESIDENT WOULD LIKE NOTHING MORE THAN TO SAVE PEOPLE BUT
> >> >>ALL YOU PEOPLE THAT GOD GAVE YOU FREE CHOICE HAVE DECIDED TO VOTE
> >> >>FOR THE REAL KILLERS-
> >> >>   Have you any clue how many of your fetuses are done away with
> >> >>each year in the USA alone,, Allan Baby– way way more in 1 year
> >> >>than have been killed in ALL the World wars— How many do you think
> >> >>are rape and how many are just another form of birth control,, Your
> >> >>Planned Parenthood is a multi-Billion dollar industry that fights
> >> >>for you to have the freedom to get rid of your Babies- But They do
> >> >>not do it for free– They  are rich.One more thing if we can justify
> >> >>killing because you THINK they don’t feel pain- Why not line up all
> >> >>us addicts right after a good whack and while we are feeling no pain
> >> >>BANG-
> >> >>Save a lot of tax dollars- The Meth Clinics would be Pissed though.
> >> >>
> >> >>Love Ya!
> >> >>
> >> >>Just Don’t say it is OK To Kill My Children- Or Yours
> >> >>
> >> >>B
> >> >>
> >> >>—-Original Message Follows—-
> >> >>From: “Alan Hehe”
> >> >>Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
> >> >>To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
> >> >>Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] RE: [Pornography,psychology,Choice,force,) 2
> >> >>cents
> >> >>Date: Tue, 04 Apr 2006 01:25:21 -0400
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> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>   I gotta take a piece of this one. Okay, Mr. Anti-choice, let me
> >> >>ask you this: do you eat meat? If not, then good for you. If so,
> >> >>have you ever though about the actual, truly painful, totally
> >>  >>inhumane treatment we put animals through? And usually don’t think
> >> >>twice about it…It’s people like George Bush who make me wish
> >> >>sometimes that God would hurl an asteroid at us! It’s “God forbid
> >> >>one human foetus (who does not feel a thing if the abortion is done
> >> >>in a timely manner, according to the latest research, because their
> >> >>nervous system isn’t nearly fully developed) should perish, no
> >> >>matter if it was caused by a rape or is probably going to be born
> >> >>into alot of suffering–but while I’m on my high horse, cut me a
> >> >>piece o that cow off and cook it up! It’s sheer egotism that we
> >> >>believe that humans are so damned
> >> >>important, but it’s okay if we torture animals, ruin the planet, and
> >> >>make other people  adhere to our beliefs!!! We’re not that important!
> >> >>And if you believe in a God and the soul, then you know that–if the
> >> >>foetus even has a soul yet, which I don’t believe it does..I believe
> >> >>the soul enters with the first breath, and leaves with the
> >> >>last–that baby is just going back into the arms of God! There is no
> >> >>death! And since they don’t experience pain, all it becomes is
> >> >>something for people like you to feel self righteous about!
> >> >>Personally, I think everyone should smoke pot, and would benefit
> >> >>from it (except for a few cases), but how would you like it if I
> >> >>MADE you smoke it? That is, if you don’t, and don’t like it. Or
> >> >>let’s say you eat meat, but I think it’s just as evil to do that as
> >> >>to allow abortions, so  I outlawed meat–would that be okay with you?
> >> >>And the cliff analogy is just stupid–not
> >> >>the same thing at all. But yes, I think if a person is truly
> >> >>miserable, and wants to die, I would try to talk them out of it, but
> >> >>I would never stop them by force. That’s called LACK OF FREEDOM. And
> >> >>if we didn’t make mistakes, how would we ever learn? To be told
> >> >>something is wrong is one thing..you can tell a person, fire will
> >> >>burn you..but until they get burned, they will not truly understand,
> >> >>and that’s what life is all about–learning. No, I don’t like to see
> >> >>foetus’ abortions–I think prevention is the answer….But
> >> >>sometimes, I believe it is ‘the best choice’. If everyone like you
> >> >>had their way, there really would be NO  ROOM AT ALL left!!! We’re
> >> >>already sooo over-populated! It’s like I heard some character say in
> >> >>a movie recently..”everybody’s kids are so special…it makes you
> >> >>wonder where all the normal adults come from”. Even God believes in
> >> >>freedom of choice! That’s why he gave
> >> >>us FREE WILL. You’re a Republican, aren’t you? And you probably
> >> >>think that war-mongering asshole of a President is the best-thing
> >> >>since sliced bread, eh? It’s okay to kill, as long as it’s not a
> >> >>precious child…even though that child may grow up to be The Son of
> >> >>Sam!  well…”take me by the ham, no good, no evil, no give a
> >> >>damn!”  And the Govt. is lying to you! About just about everything.
> >> >>Peace, love, and freedom. Life is too  mysterious to take it so
> >> >>serious!
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>From:  “Billy J”
> >> >>Reply-To:  ibogaine@mindvox.com
> >> >>To:   ibogaine@mindvox.com
> >> >>Subject:  [Ibogaine] RE: [Pornography,psychology,Choice,force,) 2
> >> >>cents
> >> >>Date:  Sun, 02 Apr 2006 21:45:39 -0400
> >> >> >Well It sounds like this place is really mixing it up so I would
> >> >> >like to add a little REALITY TO YOU PRO CHOICERS, I am sure glad I
> >> >> >was not an abortion’ althought I have had my moments.
> >> >> >Yes My Mom was a young Mom and if she had a choice I think that I
> >> >> >would have no Grandkids,  or be babbleing on here.
> >> >> >     I too have an attitude, It is about the only thing in this
> >> >> >world that I really have control over.
> >> >> >Tiger– How well did you do with making ALL your own Choices,
> >> >> >Instead of doing
> >> >>what your were told to do? Not meant to be a shot
> >> >> >at you personally, but I am with the Right or Wrong crowd- No such
> >> >> >thing as grey.
> >> >> >   I do know that some people may have grown up believing that
> >> >>wrong
> >> >> >was right and right was wrong, but I Think that I pretty much knew
> >> >> >when I was stepping out of line and doing wrong.
> >> >> >It is (as most believe) My God , no not God, but My worldly given
> >> >> >Right- to do  wrong- It’s my life and if I want to screw it up then
> >> >> >stay out of my way. And you know what I had a lot of sooo called
> >> >> >friends that did just that WATCHED, AS i WAS Killing myself and
> >> >> >ruining a lot of lifes.
> >> >> >But O O O never no no no neverdare step on somebodys toes because
> >> >> >you know what they have a choice, Just like those poor little
> >> >>Crack
> >> >> >%$^&amp;%$ Women that degrade themselves( and me

> >> >>myself) due to
> >> >> >everybody. But Never No No Never dare tell somebody or force
> >> >>someone
> >> >> >to get some help that they may never ever make it to on their own,
> >> >> >due to something called “Pride” “Shame” “Guilt”
> >> >> >Whatever holds them back. They may end up DEAD and it  would be
> >> >>their
> >> >> >own fault, because you know how STRONG us druggies are, and if
> >> >>that
> >> >> >person dies because he had a choice to get help and refused or
> >> >>just
> >> >> >couldn’t make it on his/her own and needed YOU (of course they
> >> >> >didn’t tell you that).
> >> >> >I am sorry but I BELIEVE that if you Love Someone or even care a
> >> >> >little, and you see them walking off a cliff and YOU have an
> >> >> >opportunity to stop them, and you don’t- Can you truelly say it
> >> >>was
> >> >> >their own fault?
> >> >> >Pornography- I never met too many Normal people that would find it
> >> >> >neccesary to take their
> >> >>cloths off for the public to see. Totally
> >> >> >wrong  and if you had your own kids you might not think it too cool
> >> >> >having your buddy beating off while checking out your little girl.
> >> >> >Not nice eh Billy but P–sy T-ts are not meant for anyone except
> >> >>who
> >> >> >they belong to and their mate.
> >> >> >
> >> >> >Bye For Now, That stuff is about the biggest trigger going for any
> >> >> >downfall
> >> >> >
> >> >> >Bill
> >> >> >—-Original Message Follows—-
> >> >> >From: “Nick Sandberg”
> >> >> >Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
> >> >> >To:
> >> >> >Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Opiates
> >> >> >Date: Sun, 2 Apr 2006 10:24:07 +0100
> >> >> >MIME-Version: 1.0

> >> >>  >Received: from tomts21-srv.bellnexxia.net ([209.226.175.183]) by
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> >> >> >X-OriginalArrivalTime: 02 Apr 2006 12:38:59.0373 (UTC)
> >> >> >FILETIME=[6A155DD0:01C65652]
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> >   —–Original Message—–
> >> >> >   From: Tiger Lisa [mailto: tigerlisa@gmail.com]
> >> >> >   Sent: 01 April 2006 13:44
> >> >> >   To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
> >> >> >   Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Opiates
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> >   Dear Nick,
> >> >> >   Here’ the part I don’t understand.
> >> >> >
> >> >> >   You wrote,
> >> >> >   Personally, my position is…I think rising awareness is GOOD.
> >>  >>I
> >> >> >would
> >> >> >love to see more people in groups, going through their stuff,
> >> >> >becoming more
> >> >> >aware of their
> >> >>personal interior dynamic, and moving forward in
> >> >> >life. But,
> >> >> >sadly, I’m not in a position to compel people to do this.
> >> >> >
> >> >> >   Why would you ever want to COMPEL anyone to do ANYTHING? Do you
> >> >> >really
> >> >> >believe that would be useful, effective, helpful? Do you think
> >> >> >people
> >> >> >actually benefit from, and grow from, being FORCED to do anything?
> >> >> >
> >> >> >   That is a parent-child model of interaction (and not a
> >> >> >particularly
> >> >> >skillful one, IMO),  and it’s going to reinforce childlike,
> >> >> >rebellious and
> >> >> >victim behavior (NOT self-awareness!) in the one so compelled, as
> >> >> >well as
> >> >> >reinforcing bullying behavior and disprespectful and righteous
> >> >> >attitudes
> >> >> >(NOT increased compassion or awareness) in the one doing the
> >> >> >compelling. A
> >> >> >”lose-lose” interaction–no one
> >> >>wins!
> >> >> >
> >> >> >   Myself, I believe CHOICE is the name of the game. With choice
> >> >> >comes
> >> >> >responsibility, self-responsibility and a loss of the victim
> >> >> >consciousness
> >> >> >that drives continued reactive and unconscious behavior.
> >> >> >
> >> >> >   So in  a nutshell: Saying something (like awarenss) is GOOD is
> >> >>one
> >> >> >thing,
> >> >> >but it’s a far cry from that to say,”And I’d love to FORCE you all
> >> >> >to be
> >> >> >more aware! too bad I can’t!” I think that is the essence of
> >> >>what
> >> >> >*I* am
> >> >> >having a problem with. Yes, awareness is good. I agree. Yes, I’d
> >> >> >love to
> >> >> >live in a more aware society, umm hmm. Then I read the next
> >> >>sentence
> >> >> >and I’m
> >> >> >brought up short.
> >> >> >
> >> >> >   We all need love, acceptance, compassion. Compassion is one of
> >> >> >the most
> >> >> >healing things
> >> >>going! Power and control, on the other hand, just  get
> >> >> >people’s backs up, thrust them into dysfunctional modes of
> >> >>thinking
> >> >> >and
> >> >> >perpetuate a lack of awareness all around.
> >> >> >
> >> >> >   Just my two cents,
> >> >> >   Tiger
> >> >> >
> >> >> >   PS I bet if you took a shot of heroin, you would experience
> >> >> >bliss! (not
> >> >> >that I’m suggesting you do) I believe it is just how human beings
> >> >> >are wired.
> >> >> >We’ve all got the same neurotransmitters, more or less.
> >> >> >
> >> >> >   Hi Tiger,
> >> >> >
> >> >> >   Well, I seem to recall, from the days when I used to go to
> >> >> >conferences and
> >> >>  >stuff, that studies have shown that only a small percentage of
> >> >> >school kids
> >> >> >who used heroin developed a habit. (Howard Parker in Sheffield, or
> >> >> >something
> >> >> >like that, about 1000 individuals
> >> >>studied). This is not quite the
> >> >> >same as
> >> >> >what you’re saying, I appreciate, but it shows that the drug of
> >> >> >itself is
> >> >> >not necessarily addicting. I don’t know if anyone knows what makes
> >> >>a
> >> >> >difference but I’d be willing to bet that, psychologically, it
> >> >> >relates
> >> >> >strongly to “ego orientation” vs “underlying levels of feeling.”
> >> >>If
> >> >> >you’ve
> >> >> >developed a self-image that requires you to repress more  feelings
> >> >> >than the
> >> >> >endogenous opiates in your body can do, then taking heroin is
> >> >>going
> >> >> >to make
> >> >> >you feel pretty good. I would personally say that this is very
> >> >> >likely one
> >> >> >psychological mechanism behind addiction. This would explain why
> >> >>so
> >> >> >many
> >> >> >addicts do come from relatively high trauma backgrounds. For, as
> >> >> >kids, we
> >> >> >learn that to “get things” and to “be popular” we need to
> >> >>be able to
> >> >> >keep
> >> >> >our feelings a bit under control, not just likely to collapse from
> >> >> >overfeeling at any time.
> >> >> >
> >> >> >   With bliss, (or anxiety for that matter),  these are
> >> >>experiential
> >> >> >things
> >> >> >and no neuroscientist can explain them beyond pointing a little at
> >> >> >things
> >> >> >that seem to be involved. What is clear is that the states are
> >> >> >relative to
> >> >> >one another. If you’re basically a happy person bliss is
> >> >>inevitably
> >> >> >less
> >> >> >attractive than if you’re an anxious person.
> >> >> >
> >> >> >   About awareness, yes, I would love to force everyone to be more
> >> >> >aware!
> >> >> >And, inevitably, it doesn’t really work like that! But that’s my
> >> >> >position
> >> >> >anyway. What to do? Yes, compassion is needed, sometimes a lot of
> >> >> >it. Also,
> >> >>  >all the power and control at times. I’m not so
> >> >>busy with how I think
> >> >> >society
> >> >> >should be, or trying to like Understand the world, I just put my
> >> >> >position
> >> >> >out really. About choice, well, it seems like a great thing, for
> >> >> >sure, but
> >> >> >to me it’s a little the same as trying to push compassion at the
> >> >> >expense of
> >> >> >power. In philosophy or spirituality or whatever, some people
> >> >> >believe that
> >> >> >free will exists, others that the universe is entirely
> >> >> >deterministic. Who
> >> >> >the fuck knows? Both are cool viewpoints, and I personally
> >> >>wouldn’t
> >> >> >just
> >> >> >want to just trapped in just one of  them.
> >> >> >
> >> >> >   Is it cool to allow someone you care about to carry on fucking
> >> >> >their life

> >> >> >up because you believe so much in their free will? Not for me! I
> >> >> >like to
> >> >> >have the guts to take a position. And, to be honest, it’s a little
> >> >>
> >> >> >bit what
> >> >> >I miss in this list, where half the time everyone seems to be
> >> >> >talking it up
> >> >> >all nice but actually underneath there are shed-loads of feelings.
> >> >>I
> >> >> >don’t
> >> >> >know if this says anything significant about ibogaine, or about
> >> >>the
> >> >> >people
> >> >> >who are attracted to administering it, or what. But I notice it.
> >> >>  >
> >> >> >   Nick
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> >/]=———————————————————————=[\
> >> >> >[%] Ibogaine List Commands:
> >> >> > http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
> >> >> >
> >> >> >\]=———————————————————————=[/
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >>
> >> >>  With MSN Spaces email straight to your blog. Upload jokes, photos
> >> >>and more. It’s free!
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
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> >> >>/]=———————————————————————=[\
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> >> >
> >> >
> >> > Be one of the first to try Windows Live Mail
> >> > /]=———————————————————————=[\
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From: “Nick Sandberg” <nick227@tiscali.co.uk>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Nick
Date: April 6, 2006 at 12:47:16 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Alan,

Are you actually like capable of just talking with someone? I mean, my beliefs are my beliefs. What’s the big deal? I mean, I can’t explain why I believe this stream of thoughts becoming words are mine!  Yeah, for sure, I could just sit back and watch them and not type….the mind just finds something else to do. What does it matter? What I feel about discussing with you is that you want to suck me into your whole mind-trip, like it’s some private hole inside of you where you can win all the arguments and somehow gain what feels like power. This is what it feels like reading your posts. Maybe it’s not true at all but it feels like that. And for sure, it’s doesn’t really sound too attractive a prospect. Do you enjoy life, man? Or are you just busy trying to project your own stuff out so much you don’t wake up with just excitement in your heart? I’d really like to know. I mean, do you actually take all this stuff you write seriously? Really?

What I like about encounter is how ends up. I get to experience first hand, at the end of all the outpouring drama, all the screaming and shouting, just how close we all are to each other. When I put out all the negatives, all that’s left is love. And it’s not personal, it’s just everything’s cool and beautiful. It’s like validation. Hey, we really are all the same being!

Nick

From: Alan Hehe [mailto:a.h.veil68@hotmail.com] 
Sent: 05 April 2006 18:48
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] Nick

Nick–

Well, just as I expected, you can’t explain any of your beliefs or why you believe them, and you have made me regret saying I was sorry for being hard on it. I think YOU are the one with some serious emotional and mental problems, Nick…at least IMO. Saying you don’t feel like a “mindy discussion is just bullshit, a cop out, as is your statement about detachment. Just because it doesn’t work for you doesn’t mean it doesn’t work for anyone…But I guess you must be wiser than The Buddha, or Lao-tse too. I didn’t ask you to try to explain the nature of reality or the universe, Nick.
You are always complaining about people not listening and just reacting, and then when I politely ask you to explain your beliefs, like your one about encounter therapy, you don’t have shit to say, except to denounce other ideas as bullshit. I really don’t think you know what you think…I believe, IMO, that you are a very confused person. Well–let’s leave it at that. You had your chance, an actual request, to state what you think, and you just avoided it by denouncing other things…It’s easy to say someone or something is bullshit–it’s much harder to say positive things about what YOU think and believe. You’re just hopeless to me Nick, so please stop writing to me…I know you’ll want to respond to this, and I will read that, but whether you stop or not, I’m simply going to ignore your posts…at least until you have something real to say.
Alan.
Save time by starting a search from any Web page with the MSN Search Toolbar-FREE!
/]=———————————————————————=[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%] \]=———————————————————————=[/

From: “Nick Sandberg” <nick227@tiscali.co.uk>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] RE:anger
Date: April 6, 2006 at 12:17:32 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Preston,

Oh, I don’t know. Just don’t seem to get time. I pick them up from time to
time but can’t seem to manage more than a couple of pages. Where I live
there’s always 100 things going on, you have to fight for the right to read
and it doesn’t turn me on enough. I like to read novels on holiday though. I
last read a thriller called Private Dancer about bargirls in Bangkok. Great
book! Check it out if you see it around.

Nick

—–Original Message—–
From: Preston Peet [mailto:ptpeet@nyc.rr.com]
Sent: 05 April 2006 13:49
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] RE:anger

Books? Sorry, don’t read them.<

Why not Nick?
Oh and thanks for the link to some of your work- I’ll read it later today.

—–
“If God dropped acid, would he see people?”  ~Steven Wright

Peace, love and lotsof respect.
Preston Peet
ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor Underground- the Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations,
Astonishing Archaeology and Hidden History
Editor Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Columnist HighTimes mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —–
From: Nick Sandberg
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Wednesday, April 05, 2006 8:12 AM
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] RE:anger

Alan,

I was merely expressing where I am with things now. That’s my truth, man.
If
it doesn’t make sense to you, or whatever, I guess that’s how it is.

What do I believe? Oh God! Um, the computer monitor seems to be in front
of
me…because it just is, I can no longer be arsed with metaphysical stuff
about “is it inside of me or outside of me”, and The stream of thoughts
passing through becoming words in front of my eyes ARE mine! Again,
because
they just are. I have no way to prove either of these two positions so,
yes,
they are beliefs. Other than that, no so many beliefs oh and I like to
live
totally, without having to bother with all the interpretation, the endless
programming of the mind trying to understand itself. Yeah, totality is
cool,
and mindy discussions just turn me off these days.

Detachment? Detachment is pure bullshit. More sack-o-shit dualistic
spiritual manipulative twaddle, and occasionally needed. Life…it’s a
fucking mystery, there’s no possibility for the mind to understand fuck
all
of it, except by totally compromising yourself. And who wants to do that?
That’s where I am

Books? Sorry, don’t read them. Burning’s cool! (Just kidding)

Nick

—–Original Message—–
From: Alan Hehe [mailto:a.h.veil68@hotmail.com]
Sent: 05 April 2006 08:58
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] RE:anger

Nick, I don’t understand how meditating, or exploring different belief
systems, keeps one from confronting himself, or from avoiding feelings.
For
me, the only way that you can get in touch with how you truly feel and
think, is to stop talking to yourself (turn off the internal monologue),
let
your mind be quiet, and just watch your thoughts, from a detached point of
view..and eventually all the loud voices–which usually aren’t really you,
but all the crap we absorb from the endless streams of information,
disinformation, advertising, other peoples words, etc. When the mind
finally
quiets down, there’s a very soft voice, the voice of your higher self, and
all you have to do is pose a question in your mind, and you will know
immediately whether it’s a good thing for you or not. I do not repress my
feelings, either–you seem to be making contradictory statements…I
release
anger, in words, and then you say, “oh, he must have alot of repressed
anger
and emotions.”?  No, I don’t because by letting myself BE angry, I’ve let
it
out, not repressed it. When I’m sad, I cry….We’re all equipped with ways
of dealing with emotions…but sometimes, you need to reign in your
emotions
a little and use your MIND. Also, by your statements about “I used to
believe that, too, but now..” that you think you are above or beyond me.
Have you ever read any of Robert Anton Wilson’s non-fictional books, like
Prometheus Rising?  And I don’t think Freud or Jung were “cool”…I think
trying to be “cool” is being false to yourself…but at the same time,
it’s
a cruel world, and if you go around letting all your emotions wide out all
the time, you are going to eventually run into trouble. I don’t like your
inference of superiority, but then again I don’t truly care, either. We
must
all walk our own paths, and pride certainly does come before a fall.
Nevertheless, I am interested in what you REALLY think, besides the idea
that everyone pushes alot of feelings back, especially junkies. So now you
think Freud is cool….so you must believe in his OEdipal theories, then,
huh? Come on Nick, tell me what you really believe! And you really think
therapists are just trying to help us, even though a person is viewed as
“abnormal” if he’s too creative in his interpretation of those Rorsch Ink
Blots? Finally, sometimes we just have to–not neccesarily “repress” our
emotions, but certainly keep them under control…I use a punching bag to
help relieve my anger–because if I tore into everyone that pissed me off,
then I’d end up in some “anger management class”..and while you might
think
that’s good–or not–I don’t have the time for it. I am very emotionally
active….so what makes you superior to me, and can you write an e-mail
expressing what you believe, in many aspects, because I can’t get a grip
on
what you’re really driving at, Nick….Emotions are just one part of our
makeup, Nick..and sometimes, even confronting repressed feelings,
confronting the person who helped caused them doesn’t cure you…My mother
did alot of things that truly hurt me as a child…I’ve confronted my
anger
and sorrow over it, and I’ve confronted her about some of it. But I would
never tell her how truly deeply she hurt me, because I know she’s only
human
and all humans make mistakes, and I know she did her best. I simply love
her
too much to do that..and being able to do that, to not express your every
tear or fear..well, that’s called maturity, Nick. But I know myself. Know
thyself–Plato said that..very wise words. I’ll be looking for your
email–if you can do it–explaining your “comprehensive” world view…you
said I should listen instead of just reacting, so I’m ready when you are.
Over’n’out.

From: “Nick Sandberg” <nick227@tiscali.co.uk>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] RE:anger
Date: Tue, 4 Apr 2006 22:11:28 +0100

Hi Alan,

Fair enough! You seem like a forthright guy to me. I have done a lot of
things that you talk about also, and believed the same stuff too. We are
probably quite similar. I have also been “too clever” for the therapists
in
the past. I guess I thought it was like some game of cat and mouse and I
didn’t connect to the reality of someone who was actually trying to help
me.
I missed that bit because I figured I knew it all better. Life had to get
more desperate for me so that I could start to see that, for all my
cleverness, very few of my emotional needs were actually getting met, and
that in reality I needed help. Yeah, and I did the “teachings” scene too,
the week-long satsangs on Goa beaches and “enlightenment intensives” in
Poona. Thankfully all I got from that was that my only real responsibility
was to actually take on what I was carrying around, to stop avoiding
myself
in search of some teaching that underneath was allowing me to just
bullshit
my way out of feeling stuff. I couldn’t really give a toss about
philosophy
or spirituality these days (well, getting there slowly!) and am still kind
of grateful I was never deluded enough to try and become a Buddhist, which
is what happens to a lot of angry young guys who don’t want to feel
anymore.
Poor souls. Yeah, Freud always seemed grossly uncool to me and Jung the
opposite, nowadays it’s more the other way round. The world of concepts,
with its “ego” and all these things that had to be “overcome,” man what a
deranged trip that is. Just the same old parental conditioning coming back
round again, you gotta drop this you gotta overcome that. Poor old Carl,
trying to put everything into a map, with all those long, long books. I
would love to have put him into a Humaniversity AUM meditation and let him
experience the bliss beyond fear. So simple. But that’s just me. I guess
his
protege Wilhelm Reich still seems pretty cool to me. The Function of the
Orgasm is such a great name for a book. I would read it except I don’t
read
books! I was punk in London in the 80s too, getting wasted in the Fox and
Gossips, going to see the Ramones at the Academy, living in squats in
Camden
arguing with goths. And politics, and conspiracy theories. I’m still in
the
US who’s who for writing conspiracy theories. Yeah, maybe we’re the same
person!

Nick

—–Original Message—–
From: Alan Hehe [mailto:a.h.veil68@hotmail.com]
Sent: 04 April 2006 21:17
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] RE:anger

Nick-
Perhaps I have been a little hard on you…it is true that I came from
a
traumatic background…I grew up fighting, both with my fists and my mind.
But let me say this: I did not “scour” the internet looking for the info I
posted for you. Believe it or not, it was the second site I came to. I
agree
with some of your theories, but I don’t agree with the way in which you
choose to deal with them.
As far as being a psychonaut, I have travelled–on mushroom, L>S>D and
Dextromethorphan to places you wouldn’t believe. I also do alot of
meditating…I’ve always had a deep interest in Eastern philosophies,
especially Zen and Tibetan Buddhism. And what I find is that Jesus, Lao-
tse,
Buddha, Mohammad, and many other spiritual teachers preach basically the
same thing: love all (including animals..which we are at our most basic
level), do not get attached to material things, that death is just a
passge
to another state (although here the different religions begin to show
their
differences more..at least APPARENTLY) and to avoid the ego-trap. I try to
live by these teachings, but often fail.
As far as the whole “treatment” aspect of addiction goes, I believe
some people need it and some people don’t. For me, it doesn’t work…in
fact, when I was a teen I attempted suicide and for a time I was seeing a
psychologist…but he got no-where with me, and this is what he said, in
so
many words: that I was too intelligent, too knowledgeable about psychology
for him to treat me. I knew all the tricks…I knew what he wanted to hear
and what would cause him to make notes in his little book. I already knew
basically how a “normal person” is supposed to interpret those Rorsch Ink
Blots. I also think alot of psychology is just alot of hogwash!  I do like
some of Jung’s work, especially his research on archetypes and the
collective unconsciousness and such…but his predecessor, his teacher? He
(Freud) was one of the most psychologically disturbed people to ever foul
our minds!
Yes, I do react, perhaps a little too seriously…and it’s not really
that my beliefs are being threatened…I don’t actually have that many
beliefs, but the few I have I do feel strongly about. So…I’m sorry for
being so tough on you. Please don’t make me regret saying that…no-one is
always right, Nick, or rarely ever entirely right–including me. I know
alot
of people who, when they read the part about me having a high I.Q., or
being
intelligent, will think: He can’t be that smart if he tried to kill
himself!
And they will be both right…and wrong. People in the West usually think
something has to be either yes or no, right or wrong, on or off. And
mostly
that is the case–but not always. Eastern philosophy allows for a middle
point, and understands how negatives and positives define each
other….Being intelligent, you learn alot of things about the world that
are not nice at all…you can’t have the “bliss” of ignorance, like
some…You know that eating animals, unless that’s all there is, and then
you thank the animal for giving ITS life so YOU could live, is usually
wrong…I still have relapses…I haven’t always been a vegetarian. I also
believe strongly in moderation. When you’re intelligent enough, you see
through the lies of the Govt! You can’t lose yourself in silly T.V
shows…you see ALL…and despite all the natural beauty, and the fact
that
the universe if filled with an energy that radiates love, you also see the
cruelty and stupidity of your fellow man…yet still try to love him.
Well, that’s it. I don’t want to be accussed of writing too long of an
e-mail again. But if “mind-y” means intelligent, than I plead guilty. But
I
assure you I am not a nerd. I’m outgowing, used to be pretty good with the
ladies (till I made a commitment to one), can fight like a tiger, and love
old Punk rock! So don’t try to pigenhole me!

From:  “Nick Sandberg” <nick227@tiscali.co.uk>
Reply-To:  ibogaine@mindvox.com
To:  <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Subject:  RE: [Ibogaine] Pot calling the Kettle Black?
Date:  Tue, 4 Apr 2006 12:45:47 +0100

—–Original Message—–
From: Preston Peet [mailto:ptpeet@nyc.rr.com]
Sent: 04 April 2006 12:20
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Pot calling the Kettle Black?

But, working around addicts, what I see time and again is that they
are
either from high trauma backgrounds or are just acutely
sensitive, ie have
trouble repressing feelings. To me there’s a pretty clear
relationship
between tendencies to opiate usage and the body’s ability to repress
feeling.<

And if this is the case Nick, why out of curiosity is this
necessarily a bad
thing? Or is it? Or are there gray areas here in your view?

Hi Preston,

For sure there are grey areas. It’s just a tendency I notice in people
using
opiates. A lot either seem to be hypersensitive or coming from a fairly
traumatic background. Both suggest to me they have a problem repressing
feelings. It’s not a bad thing at all. It’s just an observation. We’re
all
just people at the end of the day.

Nick

—–
“If God dropped acid, would he see people?”  ~Steven Wright

Peace, love and lotsof respect.
Preston Peet
ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor Underground- the Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations,
Astonishing Archaeology and Hidden History
Editor Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Columnist HighTimes mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —–
From: Nick Sandberg
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Tuesday, April 04, 2006 5:01 AM
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Pot calling the Kettle Black?

Alan,

To be honest, I find you wrapped up so tight I am a bit scared to even
communicate with you. I don’t know where things will go for you. I
mean,
just the suggestion that you are using opiates to hold down feelings
and
you’re at like defcon2 or something. Why not just check out why
what I write
brings up so much feeling in you? You think anger is created by events
external to yourself? It can be triggered, for sure. But you
gotta own your
part of it. For me, you have every trait of someone who is very
strongly in
denial. You create some whole drama out of a few comments I make about
opiates, feelings and bliss and seem convinced that you only use them
to
give you bliss or something. I’m just pushing out a little energy in
the
other direction. That’s all. Why do you seem to regard this as
some form of
abuse? I find you wrapped up tight, guy, really.

I make a comment – “If you experience bliss from an analgesic it
is because
your body is struggling to hold down a lot of feelings your ego
has decided
it doesn’t want to have” and you create from it “only emotionally
repressed
individuals receive any sort of high from opiates.” To me that’s
exaggeration. Ok, maybe not so much but it’s there. You also try
and justify
your own position by apparently scouring the net for some
neurochemical
stuff that says it isn’t so. I mean, to me that’s just a total defense
reaction. I am not trying to create some big picture of how
things are, some
all-encompassing truth about addiction, my experience is that no
such thing
exists. I’m just pushing out a bit of energy. Yeah, maybe
neurochemists have
discovered how opiates work. Maybe. If so, it’s great. And I’m
happy to take
this new perspective in. And I’m happy to apologize if it’s upset you
so
much. But, working around addicts, what I see time and again is that
they
are either from high trauma backgrounds or are just acutely sensitive,
ie
have trouble repressing feelings. To me there’s a pretty clear
relationship
between tendencies to opiate usage and the body’s ability to repress
feeling.

Now you’re going to take ibogaine, which you seem to feel is holding
out
some kind of “cure” for your drug usage. Or maybe I’m reading you
wrong. I
certainly hope it’s good for you, man. And I don’t know what
iboga will do
for you personally, but what I do know is that it helps if you
are open to
honest self evaluation – that you can allow yourself to travel the
many
corridors of the psyche, especially the ones where ordinarily it
looks a bit
scary. Plenty of people have taken the drug, seen some God or other,
been
drug free for a few weeks or months, all totally valuable
experiences, and
then found themselves back using pretty soon. And a lot of people are
attracted to ibogaine because they think it’s some kind of treatment
that
avoids formal rehab, avoids them having to be open and show their
feelings
in front of others. My experience is that it doesn’t really work
like that.

All in all, I’d like to be a friend to you. My intention is not
bad. I just
like to feel a bit of emotional reality in people so I put energy out
and
see how it goes. Helps me feel connected to people, coz otherwise
it’s just
the mind putting out what it thinks you want to hear and I don’t
find that
so satisfying really. Just another game.

Nick

—–Original Message—–
From: Alan Hehe [mailto:a.h.veil68@hotmail.com]
Sent: 04 April 2006 04:34
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Pot calling the Kettle Black?

Nick…you are soooo full of shit. That’s exactly what you said, and
you’re lucky I don’t have the e-mail anymore or I’d shove it down your
lying, cyber throat!!!!!
Come on..Preston, someone…does anyone have that email, the
one where
I posted the medical info I think might have his actual statement
on it….I
would appreciate if someone could send it back to me. Almost word
for word
what you said was (grammatical errors included) “Opiate is an
analgesic. It
stops feeling. Only someone with alot of repressed emotions receive
bliss
from analgesics, like opiates….” (you also said something about
ego-orientation)…then you said “if you can think of another reason
I’d
love to hear it.”  Now I’m positive that I want nothing more to do
with
you…so let sleeping dogs lie, or I swear I will rip you
apart…and that
way, you won’t have to “be manipulated anymore!” You dug your own
grave with
a drstically stupid statement, and you’re too full of yourself to just
say…”hey, I was wrong”. Now, for the second time, BYE!!!!!

From: “Nick Sandberg” <nick227@tiscali.co.uk>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Pot calling the Kettle Black?
Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2006 08:53:07 +0100

—–Original Message—–
From: Alan Hehe [mailto:a.h.veil68@hotmail.com]
Sent: 02 April 2006 17:32
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] Pot calling the Kettle Black?

Hey…uh, Biscuit Boy,
What’s the matter? Do you NOT like my debate with Nick, or do
you just
not like the fact that Ann paid me a compliment? Do you agree with
Nick’s
idea that only emotionally repressed individuals receive any sort of
high
from opiates? If you’ve got something to say, why not come out
and say it?
Have you never done opiates? Or any drugs? What gives you the
right to judge
Ann? Personally I don’t care if her comment was influened by a
whole gram of
Mexican brown! Better a nice compliment from someone high, than a
nasty one
from someone sober! Now, if I’ve misconstrued your intent, I
apologize, but
I would appreciate a logical explanation rather than a low-blow
insinuation.

Hi Alan,
only emotionally repressed individuals receive any sort of high from
opiates – I did not make such an extreme statement. I said there was a
relationship between the two, that the bliss experienced on
opiates relates
to the degree of ego-repressed feeling. You grab stuff,
exaggerate it to an
extreme position and then criticize your own interpretation.
Welcome to the
wonderful world of manipulation! I see a great career in media or
politics
opening up before you.
BTW, this IS the classic trait for someone who is using belief
patterns to
hold down feelings. If something challenges the belief then repressed
feelings start to rise “OMG, what if I’m really like so!” or whatever
and
the mind acts to push the feelings back down again, rearranging
what is said
into something it can criticize and expel. Frankly, I also see
myself doing
it at times! Letting go of beliefs can be a toughie.
Nick

From:  biscuitboy714@aol.com
Reply-To:  ibogaine@mindvox.com
To:  ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject:  Re: [Ibogaine] Opiate effects
Date:  Sun, 02 Apr 2006 11:05:09 -0400
Yea Ann, tell us how much heroin you shot last night. He He I
couldn’t help it. I love you Mamma           Randy

—–Original Message—–
From: Alan Hehe <a.h.veil68@hotmail.com>
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Sat, 01 Apr 2006 11:15:03 -0500
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Opiate effects

Hey Ann,

Thank you for the compliment…Somebody’s got to try to counter
his crazy ideas with some sense. Feel free to write me anytime..I
really enjoy talking to people on this list and hearing their
stories…Oh, don’t tell anyone, but I studied semantics and debate
in high school! Just kidding…about the hush hush, as anyone will
be able to read this. Oh, heck–LOL! I’m 37, and High school is but
a distant, mainly unplesant experience…except when I would catch
my English teacher making grammatical or syntactical mistakes,
before they moved me into an A.P. college-level class…And no, I’m
not conceited, either..but I do enjoy debate! Everyone has certain
qualities at which they excel, and others at which they are
deficient. I make up for my skill in English by being a retard in
math! Plus, I couldn’t be that smart or I wouldn’t be here, looking
for a way out of the hell-hole I dug for myself….and despite
having a really shitty childhood, I take complete responsibility for
my current position in
life……………………………….Wishing you the best in
all…….Alan.

——–
From: “Ann B. Mullikin” <think@francomm.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Opiate effects
Date: Sat, 1 Apr 2006 10:04:20 -0500

No, I am not Nick but…..

Bravo, Alan.  I surely do appreciate the way you use your brain –
TO THINK AND TO REASON.  Its good stuff.  Keep on.

ann
think@francomm.com

—– Original Message —–
From: Alan Hehe
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Friday, March 31, 2006 4:49 PM
Subject: [Ibogaine] Opiate effects

Hey Nick,

I wanted to say that, although I was basically right, I believe
(and according to the research I’ve done) about the reason opiates
cause pleasure, I wasn’t entirely correct about the natural opiates
(dopamine,etc) having an effect on mood. They do have an affect on
mood..but then again, so does euphoria..in fact, it could be said to
be a mood unto itself. Here’s a little medical info for: Opiates
(heroin, morphine, etc.)

The human body naturally produces its own opiate-like substances
and uses them as neurotransmitters. These substances include
endorphins, enkephalins, and dynorphin, often collectively known as
endogenous opioids. Endogenous opioids modulate our reactions to
painful stimuli. They also regulate vital functions such as hunger
and thirst and are involved in mood control, immune response, and
other processes.

The reason that opiates such as heroin and morphine affect us so
powerfully is that these exogenous substances bind to the same
receptors as our endogenous opioids. There are three kinds of
receptors widely distributed throughout the brain: mu, delta, and
kappa receptors.

These receptors, through second messengers, influence the likelihood
that ion channels will open, which in certain cases reduces the
excitability of neurons. This reduced excitability is the likely
source of the euphoric effect of opiates and appears to be mediated
by the mu and delta receptors.

This euphoric effect also appears to involve another mechanism in
which the GABA-inhibitory interneurons of the ventral tegmental area
come into play. By attaching to their mu receptors, exogenous
opioids reduce the amount of GABA released (see animation).
Normally, GABA reduces the amount of dopamine released in the
nucleus accumbens. By inhibiting this inhibitor, the opiates
ultimately increase the amount of dopamine produced and the amount
of pleasure felt.

Chronic consumption of opiates inhibits the production of cAMP, but
this inhibition is offset in the long run by other cAMP production
mechanisms. When no opiates are available, this increased cAMP
production capacity comes to the fore and results in neural
hyperactivity and the sensation of craving the drug.

——–
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From: “Nick Sandberg” <nick227@tiscali.co.uk>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] OT! Eating cattle or food
Date: April 6, 2006 at 12:11:23 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Alan,

Personally, I don’t think you give a shit about animals. Seems to me like it’s just a lever you use to condemn people. You’re riddled with trips you can’t own yet and so you just project them randomly on people by starting little arguments everywhere, giving you the opportunity to lay in to them with a bit of condemnation. Well, that’s not so bad but I don’t feel anything in you like you give a shit. It’s just like a giant mind firing off into space. Can’t go anywhere, man.

Nick

From: Alan Hehe [mailto:a.h.veil68@hotmail.com] 
Sent: 06 April 2006 00:00
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] OT! Eating cattle or food

Jon–
I hope you are kidding about brocolli feeling pain. That must be put there for a laugh.
This will probably be my last post, so I will say this: From debating in high school and different forums, and just from alot of research, I’ve learned one thing beyond any doubt: Anyone can make an argument, for or against, any idea, belief, or position–often using the same data. If you believe eating meat is okay, you will tend to gather evidence to support your belief, and exclude evidence that negates it. If you believe eating meat is wrong, the same is true. It’s not so much that I believe eating meat itself is wrong, it’s more that I feel we’re holding ourselves back from evolving spiritually and emotionally, from finding peace, by the way we treat our “food”–which is living, breathing, caring animals who are put to death and kept in the most inhumane fashions possible, all because we believe we are better than them, and since they are “only food”, it doesn’t matter how they are treated. But if you lock a cute little dog in a hot car for half a day, you can go to jail for that. We only want to save the cute animals. But we think nothin of the bull who gets his balls cut off with a knife without a drop of painkiller…and we’re egotistic enough to say..”ahh, he doesn’t feel anything.” But yet people like Bill are sure like a foetus, even though it’s C.N.S. isn’t even developed, the nerve endings aren’t formed yet, it must be going through agony.
So, you can make an argument for just about anything…but you have to live with the consequences if you turn out to be wrong.

From:  jon@mindvox.com
Reply-To:  ibogaine@mindvox.com
To:  ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject:  Re: [Ibogaine] OT! Eating cattle or food
Date:  Wed, 5 Apr 2006 16:05:29 -0400 (EDT)
>
>Well, ok… I’ll go through this point by point…
>
>Not all plants feel pain, but some do… e.g., broccoli. Likewise, while
>most animals do feel pain, not all do.. e.g. assorted types of shellfish.
>Again, the line between plant and animal is not as clear cut as people
>make it out to be.
>
>As for the heart attacks, it is true that meat-eaters are more likely to
>suffer from that, as well as from assorted food poisonings and infections
>transmitted by tainted meat. But non-meat-eaters are more likely to suffer
>from depression, anemia, and assorted other ailments. So, it’s a trade
>off.
>
>Your argument about our digestive system is completely off base. It’s
>actually easier for humans (and other primates) to digest meat than to
>digest plant matter. The main reason is that plant cells have tough cell
>walls, while animal cells do not. Our digestive system is not set up to
>get optimal nutrition from plants; for that we would need a digestive
>system more similar to a cow (i.e., multiple stomachs, cud-chewing, longer
>intenstines, etc.) This is why, for example, when you eat corn it comes
>out whole at the other end. Humans are not especially good at digesting
>most plant matter.
>
>Based purely on our biology, humans are set up to be omnivores.  This is
>because our digestive system has characterstics of both carnivores (e.g. a
>single stomach and canines) and herbivores (e.g. molars). The length of
>our digestive system is much shorter than that of pure herbivores, but
>longer than that of pure carnivores. Optimal human nutrition is best
>acheived by eating a balanced diet of animals and plants.
>
>I do conceed that the way industrialised nations go about farming meat is
>pretty brutal. But then, so is the way industrialised nations go about
>farming plants as well.
>
>And so is the way industrialised nations do most things, for that matter..
>
>
> >   Hey–
> >    Just wanted to say that, asides from clams or mussells maybe, plants do
> > not have a C>N>S and do not experience pain like animals, who have pain
> > receptors just like we do. Also, there are other reasons for not eating
> > meat: like health reasons…Meat eaters have about a 35-40% chance of
> > dying from a heart attack do their diet, while vegetarians only have
> > about 5% chance. That’s quite a difference.
> >      Furthermore–yes, plants are alive! That’s the whole idea! You only
> > obtain true life energy from living things! The meat you eat has been
> > dead for God only knows how long, has very little nutritional value.
> > Also, because we have a digestive track that’s over 20 feet long,
> > alot of the meat you eat rots in your intestines, releasing all kinds
> > of nasty toxins. In addition, when animals are slaughtered in the
> > mass murder method we use, they’re not so stupid that they don’t know
> > what’s going on…Animals (just like the animal called a dog) are
> > very keen at sensing fear, not just within us, but within their own
> > ranks. As they approach their death, they are terrified, and release
> > a multitude of chemicals into their bloodstreams, which, when we eat,
> > have an effect on us…mainly anger and fear, which are closely
> > linked.
> >     Well, I have to go…You have the choice to eat whatever you want..I
> > used to eat meat, and still do occasionally…but I swear to you that
> > I feel a hundred times lighter since I started eating less meat, and
> > alot more full of life. And if you don’t think I know what I’m talking
> > about, here a guy that was kinda smart, and his take on vegetarianism
> > vs. eating meat:
> > “Nothing will benefit health and increase the chances of survival of life
> > on Earth as the evoloution to a vegetarian diet..”—Albert Einstein.
> >
> >      From:  jon@mindvox.com
> > Reply-To:  ibogaine@mindvox.com
> > To:  ibogaine@mindvox.com
> > Subject:  Re: [Ibogaine] OT! Eating cattle or food
> > Date:  Wed, 5 Apr 2006 14:24:56 -0400 (EDT)
> >>potatoes have eyes too =P
> >>
> >>i remember this punk song about how silly it is that vegetarians, for
> >>example, don’t eat clams… because clams have essentially the same kind
> >>of nervous system as broccoli and cauliflower…
> >>
> >>the line between plant and animal is not an entirely clear one.. and the
> >>decision to eat plants but not animals seems to me a pretty arbitrary
> >> one.
> >>plants are living, breathing, and to some degree, thinking creatures as
> >>well. but they get no love from PETA…
> >>
> >>i guess my basic point is.. eat whatever you’re  comfortable with. but
> >>realise that whatever you eat, ANYTHING you eat, inflicts suffering on
> >>some creature.
> >>
> >>such is the nature of life.
> >>
> >>
> >>ahaha… speaking of PETA, i saw the best bumper sticker a couple weeks
> >>ago….eheh… it said:
> >>
> >>”PETA – People Eating Tasty Animals”
> >>
> >>=)
> >>
> >>oh, and one more thing… as for the whole pet vs. food argument… i
> >> know
> >>for a fact that if my cat ever got the chance, he would totally eat me.
> >> so
> >>i don’t wanna hear it.. =P
> >>
> >>
> >> > for me eating meat in a society where it’s unnecessary merely promotes
> >> the
> >> > fear/bloodthirsty addiction so prevalent in the Western world. I can
> >> see
> >> > eating meat in a society where there are no alternatives, but where I
> >> live
> >> > it’s easy to not eat meat, and I’m  glad.
> >> > I still do dairy and eggs, but can’t eat anything that might lick it’s
> >> > fellow beings, or nuzzle them, or communicate in any way, shape or
> >> form
> >> > with
> >> > one another, even chickens (which I’ve been told are ok to eat because
> >> > “they’re stupid.” If that were the only criteria for being ok to eat,
> >> I’d
> >> > be
> >> > a cannibal). Again, this is only my own viewpoint, but there seems to
> >> be
> >> > something unenlightened, to me, how some folk can have “pets” but call
> >> > cattle mere “food,” making no connection to the living, breathing,
> >> > thinking
> >> > creatures sharing the planet with us.
> >> >
> >> > Butt, and it’s a great big butt, I can’t really fault anyone for their
> >> > eating habits beyond stating how I personally feel, particularly about
> >> >  factory farming, inhumane treatment of our “food” and the wonton
> >> slaughter
> >> > of living creatures when it isn’t necessary for our survival, only to
> >> feed
> >> > our addiction to blood and flesh these days (Of course one couuld take
> >> > this
> >> > to extreme and tell me plants are also living, but I limit my empathy
> >> and
> >> > eating ban to beings with eys I guess).
> >> >     That’s because I’m…pro-choice at heart.
> >> >
> >> > —–
> >> > “If God dropped acid, would he see people?”  ~Steven Wright
> >> >
> >> > Peace, love and lotsof respect.
> >> > Preston Peet
> >> > ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
> >> > Editor Underground- the Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations,
> >> > Astonishing Archaeology and Hidden History
> >> > Editor Under the Influence- the  Disinformation Guide to Drugs
> >> > Editor http://www.drugwar.com
> >> > Columnist HighTimes mag/.com
> >> > Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
> >> > Columnist New York Waste
> >> > Etc.
> >> >
> >> > —– Original Message —–
> >> > From: Crooked Eye
> >> > To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
> >> > Sent: Tuesday, April 04, 2006 3:53 AM
> >> > Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Whats a Republican?
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > Cow’s are tasty…  If we aren’t supposed to eat animals, then why are
> >> > they
> >> > made out of meat?  😀  I fail how to see eating cows equates to
> >> racism…
> >> > I
> >> > eat a lot of cows, but I have a mixed family…  If it makes you feel
> >> any
> >> > better we eat a lot of chickens, too..  I love turkey, the  tryptophan
> >> > makes
> >> > me sleepy…
> >> >
> >> > Alan Hehe  wrote:
> >> >    Don’t call me Baby…well, you can…since you’re not close enough
> >> for
> >> > me
> >> > to do anything about it! Plus, that’s a freedom, too…Just like my
> >> > ability
> >> > to talk about pro-choice. As for your information, no, I don’t think
> >> the
> >> > way
> >> > the abortion system is set up–but I absolutely believe in having the
> >> > right…And no, you don’t have 9 months to decide whether to have the
> >> rug
> >> > rat or not–there is a cut-off, a limit to when abortions can be
> >> > performed.
> >> >      And so you think, because cows aren’t pets, or aren’t ‘cute’,
> >> then
> >> > it’s
> >> > okay to torture them?  And to cut the balls of bulls off without any
> >> > anesthetic? To make chickens live in a cage so small they can barely
> >> turn
> >> > around? And George Bush–wanting to save lives! LOL! That’s the
> >> biggest
> >> > joke
> >> > I’ve ever heard! But it figures; you’re not special..alot of the
> >> people in
> >> > this country are brain-washed by the constant disinformation they are
> >> > fed….Why do you think there are a hundred commercials warning of the
> >> > dangers of marijuana, one of the least harmful drugs known to man, but
> >> yet
> >> > maybe one out of those hundred about the truly dangerous drugs, like H
> >> or
> >> > Coke?
> >> >        And you don’t have to be a hindu to have compassion for animals
> >> > other
> >> > than cats and dogs, you dumb-ass red-neck! In some places  they eat
> >> > dogs…would that be okay if they ate your dog? You know, I’m totally
> >> > wasting my time talking to you, I can already tell that you are way
> >> > undereducated, extremely prejudiced. Cows are just food. Are blacks
> >> just
> >> > niggers, too? God, I can’t stand fuckin’ red-necks like you,
> >> especially
> >> > the
> >> > ones that actually think they’re smart. Once you start doing away with
> >> > freedoms, it’s all down-hill. Who’s going to decide what’s right and
> >> > wrong?
> >> > You?! I would happily put a hollow-point 45 shell into my head if that
> >> > possibility existed..of course G.W.B. is quite the redneck himself,
> >> which
> >> > is
> >> > why you probably like him. First of all, HE’s not fighting for
> >> anything. I
> >> > have respect for the soldiers; they don’t decide the mission,  they
> >> just do
> >> > what they’re told. And how many babies do you think die while we were
> >> > waging
> >> > a war we were totally lied to about? Or is that okay? You think the
> >> babies
> >> > over there even know what a terrorist is? This world is already
> >> > over-populated..if people like you ran things, the world would run out
> >> of
> >> > resources within a decade! The oh so precious children! Everyone
> >> starts
> >> > out
> >> > as a child..some people, like you, remain one, in their minds, their
> >> whole
> >> > life. But those sweet children often grow up to be killers and
> >> rapists,
> >> > and
> >> > often for no apparent reason!  Strong belief does only one thing:
> >> close
> >> > your
> >> > mind. Boy, that ibogaine is gonna have fun with you!!!!! Cows are just
> >> > food!
> >> > Well, we’re  just food, too…if a grizzly decides you look good! God,
> >> what
> >> > egotism!  You claim to be a Christian (I do not) but you must have
> >> misssed
> >> > the part about not judging lest you be judged yourself…And I bet
> >> ibo’s
> >> > gonna drive that one home with a psychoactive sledgehammer! You’ve got
> >> > your
> >> > response, but I really no longer wish to talk with you. I’ve spent too
> >> > much
> >> > time arguing with all the fascists on this list, instead of hanging
> >> out
> >> > with
> >> > the cool, in the know ,people: by that meaning knowing that the whole
> >> > Govt.
> >> > is totally corrupt, actually controlled by a few wealthy and extremely
> >> > powerful people, and they constantly just feed us disinformation,
> >> while
> >> > manipulating the world through economic control, etc, and alot  of
> >> other
> >> > things you wouldn’t understand. BYE< NOW, Billy BOY. Go get a burger!
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > From:  “Billy J”
> >> > Reply-To:  ibogaine@mindvox.com
> >> > To:  ibogaine@mindvox.com
> >> > Subject:  RE: [Ibogaine] Whats a Republican?
> >> > Date:  Tue, 04 Apr 2006 02:19:25 -0400
> >> >>Hear this peace and take it to your Heart FRIEND.
> >> >>1st if we go back to Killing kids for the sins of their fathers
> >> >>(Child of a Rapist) Do you think that is more civilized then Raising
> >> >>Cattle for food,(Cattle are food “not Pets”) although you may be
> >> >>from India or somewhere that they worship your cows and even there
> >> >>fecal matter I hear!  Now if your are at that junkger(Place) then I
> >> >>will have to say -well Al, Bless you, but when was the last time you
> >> >>had your precious cow go to war for YOUR FREEDOMS that I am sure you
> >> >>are enjoying- Yes?
> >> >>   Allan , do you really love cows (the 4 legged ones that is) or
> >> >>are you in your 2nd or 3rd reincarnation and you where once a cow
> >> >>and you have come into this wierd mooing stage and you just could
> >> >>not figure it out.
> >> >>  Ok That is sarcasm – Sorry< I’ll get serious.
> >> >>Oh Ya Your aborting a fetus-, and yes I know that in the USof A
> >> >>being the most civilized Nation that has usually voted anti-
> >> >>Christian ( just in case somebody didn’t let Everybody do what FEELs
> >> >>GOOD)
> >>  >>Ya you can Have sex with anybody you want and then if a girl gets
> >> >>pregnant, or do you call it fetus something, oh well  so shes
> >> >>pregnant you have 9 months to decide whether or not you what the
> >> >>little BLOB Because your fetus can be kicking up a storm and as long
> >> >>as you can keep its stupid( oh it,s brain isn’t functioning yet
> >> >>,right) well as long as you can keep its head inside the grown up
> >> >>fetus ( that would be the female, The pregnant one, knocked up one ,
> >> >>dumb one what ever you would call someone like that ( Maybe MOM)
> >> >>well just reach in and CRUSH ITS SCULL and or STICK A SYRINGE INTO
> >> >>THe Back of it HEAD JUST UNTIL ITS STOPS PUTTINGN UP A FIGHT, AND
> >> >>they do fight Allan, just go and ask your abortion doctor.–  PARTIAL
> >> >>BIRTH ABORTION– VERY NICE–
> >> >>  oH YA AND YOU KNOW WHAT ALLY BABY THAT STUPID WAR MOGER THAT YOU
> >> >>HAVE AS A PRESIDENT WOULD LIKE NOTHING MORE THAN TO SAVE PEOPLE BUT
> >> >>ALL YOU PEOPLE THAT GOD GAVE YOU FREE CHOICE HAVE DECIDED TO VOTE
> >> >>FOR THE REAL KILLERS-
> >> >>   Have you any clue how many of your fetuses are done away with
> >> >>each year in the USA alone,, Allan Baby– way way more in 1 year
> >> >>than have been killed in ALL the World wars— How many do you think
> >> >>are rape and how many are just another form of birth control,, Your
> >> >>Planned Parenthood is a multi-Billion dollar industry that fights
> >> >>for you to have the freedom to get rid of your Babies- But They do
> >> >>not do it for free– They  are rich.One more thing if we can justify
> >> >>killing because you THINK they don’t feel pain- Why not line up all
> >> >>us addicts right after a good whack and while we are feeling no pain
> >> >>BANG-
> >> >>Save a lot of tax dollars- The Meth Clinics would be Pissed though.
> >> >>
> >> >>Love Ya!
> >> >>
> >> >>Just Don’t say it is OK To Kill My Children- Or Yours
> >> >>
> >> >>B
> >> >>
> >> >>—-Original Message Follows—-
> >> >>From: “Alan Hehe”
> >> >>Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
> >> >>To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
> >> >>Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] RE: [Pornography,psychology,Choice,force,) 2
> >> >>cents
> >> >>Date: Tue, 04 Apr 2006 01:25:21 -0400
> >> >>MIME-Version:  1.0
> >> >>Received: from tomts30-srv.bellnexxia.net ([209.226.175.104]) by
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> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>   I gotta take a piece of this one. Okay, Mr. Anti-choice, let me
> >> >>ask you this: do you eat meat? If not, then good for you. If so,
> >> >>have you ever though about the actual, truly painful, totally
> >>  >>inhumane treatment we put animals through? And usually don’t think
> >> >>twice about it…It’s people like George Bush who make me wish
> >> >>sometimes that God would hurl an asteroid at us! It’s “God forbid
> >> >>one human foetus (who does not feel a thing if the abortion is done
> >> >>in a timely manner, according to the latest research, because their
> >> >>nervous system isn’t nearly fully developed) should perish, no
> >> >>matter if it was caused by a rape or is probably going to be born
> >> >>into alot of suffering–but while I’m on my high horse, cut me a
> >> >>piece o that cow off and cook it up! It’s sheer egotism that we
> >> >>believe that humans are so damned
> >> >>important, but it’s okay if we torture animals, ruin the planet, and
> >> >>make other people  adhere to our beliefs!!! We’re not that important!
> >> >>And if you believe in a God and the soul, then you know that–if the
> >> >>foetus even has a soul yet, which I don’t believe it does..I believe
> >> >>the soul enters with the first breath, and leaves with the
> >> >>last–that baby is just going back into the arms of God! There is no
> >> >>death! And since they don’t experience pain, all it becomes is
> >> >>something for people like you to feel self righteous about!
> >> >>Personally, I think everyone should smoke pot, and would benefit
> >> >>from it (except for a few cases), but how would you like it if I
> >> >>MADE you smoke it? That is, if you don’t, and don’t like it. Or
> >> >>let’s say you eat meat, but I think it’s just as evil to do that as
> >> >>to allow abortions, so  I outlawed meat–would that be okay with you?
> >> >>And the cliff analogy is just stupid–not
> >> >>the same thing at all. But yes, I think if a person is truly
> >> >>miserable, and wants to die, I would try to talk them out of it, but
> >> >>I would never stop them by force. That’s called LACK OF FREEDOM. And
> >> >>if we didn’t make mistakes, how would we ever learn? To be told
> >> >>something is wrong is one thing..you can tell a person, fire will
> >> >>burn you..but until they get burned, they will not truly understand,
> >> >>and that’s what life is all about–learning. No, I don’t like to see
> >> >>foetus’ abortions–I think prevention is the answer….But
> >> >>sometimes, I believe it is ‘the best choice’. If everyone like you
> >> >>had their way, there really would be NO  ROOM AT ALL left!!! We’re
> >> >>already sooo over-populated! It’s like I heard some character say in
> >> >>a movie recently..”everybody’s kids are so special…it makes you
> >> >>wonder where all the normal adults come from”. Even God believes in
> >> >>freedom of choice! That’s why he gave
> >> >>us FREE WILL. You’re a Republican, aren’t you? And you probably
> >> >>think that war-mongering asshole of a President is the best-thing
> >> >>since sliced bread, eh? It’s okay to kill, as long as it’s not a
> >> >>precious child…even though that child may grow up to be The Son of
> >> >>Sam!  well…”take me by the ham, no good, no evil, no give a
> >> >>damn!”  And the Govt. is lying to you! About just about everything.
> >> >>Peace, love, and freedom. Life is too  mysterious to take it so
> >> >>serious!
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>From:  “Billy J”
> >> >>Reply-To:  ibogaine@mindvox.com
> >> >>To:  ibogaine@mindvox.com
> >> >>Subject:  [Ibogaine] RE: [Pornography,psychology,Choice,force,) 2
> >> >>cents
> >> >>Date:  Sun, 02 Apr 2006 21:45:39 -0400
> >> >> >Well It sounds like this place is really mixing it up so I would
> >> >> >like to add a little REALITY TO YOU PRO CHOICERS, I am sure glad I
> >> >> >was not an abortion’ althought I have had my moments.
> >> >> >Yes My Mom was a young Mom and if she had a choice I think that I
> >> >> >would have no Grandkids,  or be babbleing on here.
> >> >> >     I too have an attitude, It is about the only thing in this
> >> >> >world that I really have control over.
> >> >> >Tiger– How well did you do with making ALL your own Choices,
> >> >> >Instead of doing
> >> >>what your were told to do? Not meant to be a shot
> >> >> >at you personally, but I am with the Right or Wrong crowd- No such
> >> >> >thing as grey.
> >> >> >   I do know that some people may have grown up believing that
> >> >>wrong
> >> >> >was right and right was wrong, but I Think that I pretty much knew
> >> >> >when I was stepping out of line and doing wrong.
> >> >> >It is (as most believe) My God , no not God, but My worldly given
> >> >> >Right- to do  wrong- It’s my life and if I want to screw it up then
> >> >> >stay out of my way. And you know what I had a lot of sooo called
> >> >> >friends that did just that WATCHED, AS i WAS Killing myself and
> >> >> >ruining a lot of lifes.
> >> >> >But O O O never no no no neverdare step on somebodys toes because
> >> >> >you know what they have a choice, Just like those poor little
> >> >>Crack
> >> >> >%$^&amp;%$ Women that degrade themselves( and me
> >> >>myself) due to
> >> >> >everybody. But Never No No Never dare tell somebody or force
> >> >>someone
> >> >> >to get some help that they may never ever make it to on their own,
> >> >> >due to something called “Pride” “Shame” “Guilt”
> >> >> >Whatever holds them back. They may end up DEAD and it  would be
> >> >>their
> >> >> >own fault, because you know how STRONG us druggies are, and if
> >> >>that
> >> >> >person dies because he had a choice to get help and refused or
> >> >>just
> >> >> >couldn’t make it on his/her own and needed YOU (of course they
> >> >> >didn’t tell you that).
> >> >> >I am sorry but I BELIEVE that if you Love Someone or even care a
> >> >> >little, and you see them walking off a cliff and YOU have an
> >> >> >opportunity to stop them, and you don’t- Can you truelly say it
> >> >>was
> >> >> >their own fault?
> >> >> >Pornography- I never met too many Normal people that would find it
> >> >> >neccesary to take their
> >> >>cloths off for the public to see. Totally
> >> >> >wrong  and if you had your own kids you might not think it too cool
> >> >> >having your buddy beating off while checking out your little girl.
> >> >> >Not nice eh Billy but P–sy T-ts are not meant for anyone except
> >> >>who
> >> >> >they belong to and their mate.
> >> >> >
> >> >> >Bye For Now, That stuff is about the biggest trigger going for any
> >> >> >downfall
> >> >> >
> >> >> >Bill
> >> >> >—-Original Message Follows—-
> >> >> >From: “Nick Sandberg”
> >> >> >Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
> >> >> >To:
> >> >> >Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Opiates
> >> >> >Date: Sun, 2 Apr 2006 10:24:07 +0100
> >> >> >MIME-Version: 1.0
> >> >>  >Received: from tomts21-srv.bellnexxia.net ([209.226.175.183]) by
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> >> >> >SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Sun, 2 Apr 2006 05:38:59
> >> >>-0700
> >> >> >Received: from toip5.bellnexxia.net ([209.226.175.88])          by
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> >> >> >201-253-122-130-113-20050324) with ESMTP          id
> >> >> >
> >> >> >          for ; Sun, 2 Apr 2006
> >> >>08:38:58
> >>  >> >-0400
> >> >> >Received: from tanelorn.mindvox.com (HELO mail.mindvox.com)
> >> >> >([64.124.179.118])  by toip5.bellnexxia.net with ESMTP; 02 Apr
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> >> >> >Mailing-List: contact ibogaine-help@mindvox.com; run by ezmlm
> >> >> >Precedence: bulk
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> >> >> >List-Help:
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> >> >> >List-Subscribe:
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> >> >> >X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.3 required=4.0
> >> >> >X-Antivirus-MYDOMAIN-Mail-From: nick227@tiscali.co.uk via
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> >> >> >X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true
> >> >> >X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result:
> >> >>AQAAAJ0kL0SDE4UI
> >> >> >X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.6604 (9.0.2911.0)
> >> >> >Return-Path:
> >> >>  >ibogaine-return-23233-billjohnson6=sympatico.ca@mindvox.com
> >> >> >X-OriginalArrivalTime: 02 Apr 2006 12:38:59.0373 (UTC)
> >> >> >FILETIME=[6A155DD0:01C65652]
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> >   —–Original Message—–
> >> >> >   From: Tiger Lisa [mailto:tigerlisa@gmail.com]
> >> >> >   Sent: 01 April 2006 13:44
> >> >> >   To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
> >> >> >   Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Opiates
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> >   Dear Nick,
> >> >> >   Here’ the part I don’t understand.
> >> >> >
> >> >> >   You wrote,
> >> >> >   Personally, my position is…I think rising awareness is GOOD.
> >>  >>I
> >> >> >would
> >> >> >love to see more people in groups, going through their stuff,
> >> >> >becoming more
> >> >> >aware of their
> >> >>personal interior dynamic, and moving forward in
> >> >> >life. But,
> >> >> >sadly, I’m not in a position to compel people to do this.
> >> >> >
> >> >> >   Why would you ever want to COMPEL anyone to do ANYTHING? Do you
> >> >> >really
> >> >> >believe that would be useful, effective, helpful? Do you think
> >> >> >people
> >> >> >actually benefit from, and grow from, being FORCED to do anything?
> >> >> >
> >> >> >   That is a parent-child model of interaction (and not a
> >> >> >particularly
> >> >> >skillful one, IMO),  and it’s going to reinforce childlike,
> >> >> >rebellious and
> >> >> >victim behavior (NOT self-awareness!) in the one so compelled, as
> >> >> >well as
> >> >> >reinforcing bullying behavior and disprespectful and righteous
> >> >> >attitudes
> >> >> >(NOT increased compassion or awareness) in the one doing the
> >> >> >compelling. A
> >> >> >”lose-lose” interaction–no one
> >> >>wins!
> >> >> >
> >> >> >   Myself, I believe CHOICE is the name of the game. With choice
> >> >> >comes
> >> >> >responsibility, self-responsibility and a loss of the victim
> >> >> >consciousness
> >> >> >that drives continued reactive and unconscious behavior.
> >> >> >
> >> >> >   So in  a nutshell: Saying something (like awarenss) is GOOD is
> >> >>one
> >> >> >thing,
> >> >> >but it’s a far cry from that to say,”And I’d love to FORCE you all
> >> >> >to be
> >> >> >more aware! too bad I can’t!” I think that is the essence of
> >> >>what
> >> >> >*I* am
> >> >> >having a problem with. Yes, awareness is good. I agree. Yes, I’d
> >> >> >love to
> >> >> >live in a more aware society, umm hmm. Then I read the next
> >> >>sentence
> >> >> >and I’m
> >> >> >brought up short.
> >> >> >
> >> >> >   We all need love, acceptance, compassion. Compassion is one of
> >> >> >the most
> >> >> >healing things
> >> >>going! Power and control, on the other hand, just  get
> >> >> >people’s backs up, thrust them into dysfunctional modes of
> >> >>thinking
> >> >> >and
> >> >> >perpetuate a lack of awareness all around.
> >> >> >
> >> >> >   Just my two cents,
> >> >> >   Tiger
> >> >> >
> >> >> >   PS I bet if you took a shot of heroin, you would experience
> >> >> >bliss! (not
> >> >> >that I’m suggesting you do) I believe it is just how human beings
> >> >> >are wired.
> >> >> >We’ve all got the same neurotransmitters, more or less.
> >> >> >
> >> >> >   Hi Tiger,
> >> >> >
> >> >> >   Well, I seem to recall, from the days when I used to go to
> >> >> >conferences and
> >> >>  >stuff, that studies have shown that only a small percentage of
> >> >> >school kids
> >> >> >who used heroin developed a habit. (Howard Parker in Sheffield, or
> >> >> >something
> >> >> >like that, about 1000 individuals
> >> >>studied). This is not quite the
> >> >> >same as
> >> >> >what you’re saying, I appreciate, but it shows that the drug of
> >> >> >itself is
> >> >> >not necessarily addicting. I don’t know if anyone knows what makes
> >> >>a
> >> >> >difference but I’d be willing to bet that, psychologically, it
> >> >> >relates
> >> >> >strongly to “ego orientation” vs “underlying levels of feeling.”
> >> >>If
> >> >> >you’ve
> >> >> >developed a self-image that requires you to repress more  feelings
> >> >> >than the
> >> >> >endogenous opiates in your body can do, then taking heroin is
> >> >>going
> >> >> >to make
> >> >> >you feel pretty good. I would personally say that this is very
> >> >> >likely one
> >> >> >psychological mechanism behind addiction. This would explain why
> >> >>so
> >> >> >many
> >> >> >addicts do come from relatively high trauma backgrounds. For, as
> >> >> >kids, we
> >> >> >learn that to “get things” and to “be popular” we need to
> >> >>be able to
> >> >> >keep
> >> >> >our feelings a bit under control, not just likely to collapse from
> >> >> >overfeeling at any time.
> >> >> >
> >> >> >   With bliss, (or anxiety for that matter),  these are
> >> >>experiential
> >> >> >things
> >> >> >and no neuroscientist can explain them beyond pointing a little at
> >> >> >things
> >> >> >that seem to be involved. What is clear is that the states are
> >> >> >relative to
> >> >> >one another. If you’re basically a happy person bliss is
> >> >>inevitably
> >> >> >less
> >> >> >attractive than if you’re an anxious person.
> >> >> >
> >> >> >   About awareness, yes, I would love to force everyone to be more
> >> >> >aware!
> >> >> >And, inevitably, it doesn’t really work like that! But that’s my
> >> >> >position
> >> >> >anyway. What to do? Yes, compassion is needed, sometimes a lot of
> >> >> >it. Also,
> >> >>  >all the power and control at times. I’m not so
> >> >>busy with how I think
> >> >> >society
> >> >> >should be, or trying to like Understand the world, I just put my
> >> >> >position
> >> >> >out really. About choice, well, it seems like a great thing, for
> >> >> >sure, but
> >> >> >to me it’s a little the same as trying to push compassion at the
> >> >> >expense of
> >> >> >power. In philosophy or spirituality or whatever, some people
> >> >> >believe that
> >> >> >free will exists, others that the universe is entirely
> >> >> >deterministic. Who
> >> >> >the fuck knows? Both are cool viewpoints, and I personally
> >> >>wouldn’t
> >> >> >just
> >> >> >want to just trapped in just one of  them.
> >> >> >
> >> >> >   Is it cool to allow someone you care about to carry on fucking
> >> >> >their life
> >> >> >up because you believe so much in their free will? Not for me! I
> >> >> >like to
> >> >> >have the guts to take a position. And, to be honest, it’s a little
> >> >>
> >> >> >bit what
> >> >> >I miss in this list, where half the time everyone seems to be
> >> >> >talking it up
> >> >> >all nice but actually underneath there are shed-loads of feelings.
> >> >>I
> >> >> >don’t
> >> >> >know if this says anything significant about ibogaine, or about
> >> >>the
> >> >> >people
> >> >> >who are attracted to administering it, or what. But I notice it.
> >> >>  >
> >> >> >   Nick
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> >/]=———————————————————————=[\
> >> >> >[%] Ibogaine List Commands:
> >> >> >http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
> >> >> >
> >> >> >\]=———————————————————————=[/
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >>
> >> >>  With MSN Spaces email straight to your blog. Upload jokes, photos
> >> >>and more. It’s free!
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>/]=———————————————————————=[\
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> >> >>http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
> >> >>
> >> >>\]=———————————————————————=[/
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>/]=———————————————————————=[\
> >> >>[%] Ibogaine List Commands:
> >> >>http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
> >> >>
> >> >>\]=———————————————————————=[/
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > Be one of the first to try Windows Live Mail
> >> > /]=———————————————————————=[\
> >> > [%] Ibogaine List Commands:
> >> http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html
> >> > [%]
> >> > \]=———————————————————————=[/
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. PC-to-Phone calls for ridiculously low
> >> rates.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >   /]=———————————————————————=[\
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> >> http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html
> >> > [%]
> >> >   \]=———————————————————————=[/
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>   /]=———————————————————————=[\
> >>  [%] Ibogaine List Commands:
> >> http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
> >>   \]=———————————————————————=[/
> >>
> >>
> >  Save time by starting a search from any Web page with the MSN Search
> > Toolbar-FREE!
> > /]=———————————————————————=[\
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> > \]=———————————————————————=[/
>
>
>
>
>   /]=———————————————————————=[\
>  [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
>   \]=———————————————————————=[/
>
>
See if you’ve won, play MSN Search and Win
/]=———————————————————————=[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%] \]=———————————————————————=[/

From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] (OT!!!!!) Re: [Ibogaine] : Git?Pro-Life?
Date: April 6, 2006 at 10:26:53 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Can we try to hold the name calling down a notch, it gets to be rather
personal, and I do not need any excuse to be a GIT ( new word for me today),<

Ok Bill, sure. I apologize for getting personal. I’ve been having a major issue with patience recently, and it seems to be doing a lot more harm than good, being impatient. It’s a real difficult thing for me suddenly, and I’m not exactly sure why I’m being this way, so short fused and such, but I am trying to keep myself in check, even if I’m not apparently doing such a great job of it as of late.

but I would just like to see people realize
that if I am at least TRYING and they are trying then it (any good effort)
would mor likely be won with a little honey rather than  vinager.<

Yeah, I agree, even taking my recent impatience issues into account.

Would it not be logical that I would be the one
that doesn’t want to see People die in Iraq?, and you would technically say
that George W Bush can choose (with his Cronies) anything they want and it
is his right?<

I would think you’d be supportive of saving the lives of all living creatures Bill, if you do consider yourself “pro-life,” but the impression I got from your post was that you were supportive of Bush and that the troops are somehow “protecting” us here in the US by killing and being killed in Iraq.
Bush “choosing” to kill others, is not in my mind something that is “cool” to choose, in that by doing so he isn’t choosing for himself, he’s choosing for everyone, including those dying by his decisions. It’s no ones right in my mind to infringe upon, brutalize or murder others. I consider a pregnant woman’s body to be hers to do with as she chooses, until birth.  At that point we have another “person” enter the picture. Before then, it’s her body and her decision. In my mind anyway. Those being killed by Bush have their own choices and rights and Bush doesn’t in my mind have the right to erase them.

Lets just keep looking for answers and try to word things in such a way to
direct people to do good<

Ok, you are right. I’ve been letting myself get way out of any rational state lately, flying off the nandle over imagined AND real slights, things I shouldn’t and can chose not to let affect me thusly. So I do again apologize for my tone, to you and to the list.
I think I need to do some lurking or something.

And thanks for the article.<

You’re welcome.
;-))

Have a Great day Preston.
and Have you taken  Ibogaine <

Yes:

http://www.drugwar.com/pkickingdrugswithdrugs.shtm
Kicking Drugs with Drugs-
Taking the Left Hand Path
By Preston Peet
For DrugWar.com
Posted August 12, 2004
snip-

http://www.drugwar.com/lefthandpath2.shtm
Taking the Left Hand Path.
Again
By
Preston Peet
posted at DrugWar.com
April 19, 2005
(Remember Waco!)

http://www.drugwar.com/sitwchap29.shtm

Something in the Way-
an excerpt
Chapter 29-
The Entheogenic Bed and Breakfast Detox-
An Amsterdam Redux
by Preston Peet
all photos by Preston Peet
unless otherwise noted
posted at DrugWar.com
Feb. 20, 2006
snip-
—-
Yet, If so are you clean today?<

I still use opiate-based pain medication(s) for chronic pain problems. That said, I use them entirely as prescribed (often less than), still, and see no negative changes coming this time, at this point, in my use of them. I might be unduly optimistic, but can’t help it. I feel so much differently than ever before, about my pain and the use of pain meds both. Whether I’m fooling myself or not, only time, and my own decisions, will tell. Still, I can honestly say that ibogaine has allowed me to make drastic changes in the way I behave, treat myself and those around me (other than for the aforementioned and acknowleged issue with lack of patience lately) and I don’t regret finally taking it at all, even the number of times I’ve now taken it at one dose or another (I think I’m up to seven times now total, in either extremely small doses or full on treatment sized doses. I’ve since learned that this isn’t even uncommon, that many folk find they need more than one or two or more treatments to “get it” finally.)
So again, my apologies to the list for my outraged, impatient posts. I’ve got other things to worry about, so admit I’m wasting tons of energy on things I cannot change and on being nasty, which only leaves me feeling more unsettled, if I’m not careful.
Please have a good day all.

—–
“If God dropped acid, would he see people?”  ~Steven Wright

Peace, love and lotsof respect.
Preston

—– Original Message —– From: “Billy J” <billjohnson6@sympatico.ca>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Thursday, April 06, 2006 9:51 AM
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] (OT!!!!!) Re: [Ibogaine] : Git?Pro-Life?

hey Preston,
Homophob here,
just a rebuttal.
I would just like to make it clear about spreading hatred, It is WORDS, that do that, Here I am a unrecovered Drug addict,trying (not that hard I guess) to get staight, and when someone says nasty things about ?? I have a Hard time to get them out of my so simple brain.
I definetly and honestly do not mean any DISRESPECT to Dana, and I am sorry If I came across that way, You see I am learning how to communicate and trying to make a little differance in my little world, So back on topic,
Can we try to hold the name calling down a notch, it gets to be rather personal, and I do not need any excuse to be a GIT ( new word for me today), I am wjat I am and if it means to be a shield for a fellow human being (not a animal but a 2 legged) then so be it.
Dana I would gladly CLIC on an effort to help stop ANY bloodshed or any Lying Fascist or what have you, but I would just like to see people realize that if I am at least TRYING and they are trying then it (any good effort) would mor likely be won with a little honey rather than  vinager.
One more thing, If I am Pro-Life (I think that is reffering to helping someone stay alive) and you are Pro-Choice, (technically meaning doing away with a Blob?Baby?Feotus?) Would it not be logical that I would be the one that doesn’t want to see People die in Iraq?, and you would technically say that George W Bush can choose (with his Cronies) anything they want and it is his right?
You see (I am now shaking) It is really starting to look like WHAT IS WRONG HAS BECOME RIGHT AND WHAT IS RIGHT IS NOW WRONG??
Lets just keep looking for answers and try to word things in such a way to direct people to do good and not be totally influenced by someone that may appear to have more intelligence than they.
And thanks for the article.

I am hear to get a life and not loose it.
I want to get off dope and to stop being a dope so If I ever am wrong (as I think I was in my previous words) then please try to remember that I was born Human.

Have a Great day Preston.
and Have you taken  Ibogaine Yet, If so are you clean today?

Billy The human today
(finally got my Meth 45 minutes ago)
snip-

/]=———————————————————————=[\
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From: Crooked Eye <iboganaut420@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] The truth hurts but will set you free!!!
Date: April 6, 2006 at 10:17:08 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Melatonin illegal??  What country?  Certainly not the US…

and this”> Scenario, Take 700Mic of Acid and then have a panic attack. What you got
> to do to keep your head from disappearing up your backside, Take, flood
> the system with vit c and Amino acids and you will hit rock bottom within
> about 45 mins.”

That will mnot work at all to end an acid trip, your best bet is benzo’s…  Or in worst cases, thorazine…

Preston Peet <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com> wrote:
>WHEN
I REQUIRED MELATONIN I WENT TO LOOK AND AQUIRE AND THE FRIGGIN GOVENMENT HAS
MADE IT ELIGAL. 2 WEEKS AGO.<

What? This is true? I hadn’t heard about this, and if it is true, I’m, while
not exactly surprised, appalled.
What was the reasoning if this really has happened?
And congratulation to you Paul.
—–
“If God dropped acid, would he see people?” ~Steven Wright

Peace, love and lotsof respect.
Preston Peet
ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor Underground- the Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations,
Astonishing Archaeology and Hidden History
Editor Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Columnist HighTimes mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —–
From: “Paul Brookshaw”
To:
Sent: Thursday, April 06, 2006 9:36 AM
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] The truth hurts but will set you free!!!

> Hi all,
> Well i got to add my opinion to all of this i just read. Firstly, a
> lot of people myself included did not take Heroin, because of low self
> esteem. It was a kick culture thing. Where i grew up it was the thing to
> kick back at the system and be an outlaw. It was fun.
> The fun stopped when the Dragon grabbed me by the bollocks and then shook
> my Monkey to pieces. Then out of fear I ran to someone who I thought would
> know what to do. I was only using a Quarter of a grain of Sugar a day, but
> when that ran out the drug agency titrated me on 80mg of Methadone. 23
> fucking years of torture and slavery. OK now i am clean, still sick. 26
> days with no Opiate, but still struggling on a little VAl. The system has
> got it wrong. The greed of the Man at the so called top, stigmatizes the
> so called little Man into believing that he is inferior. Like telling a
> child that they are useless and will not make anything of there life. In
> the end the poor child believes it. To be used and abused as a child only
> leads you to believe that that is the way to live life and get the most
> from it. The truth is lost in darkness and the person believes that if
> they self destruct enough they will live.
> Scenario, Take 700Mic of Acid and then have a panic attack. What you got
> to do to keep your head from disappearing up your backside, Take, flood
> the system with vit c and Amino acids and you will hit rock bottom within
> about 45 mins. Now the person who comes off Methadone or any Opiate must
> learn that there body does not know how to take on board what it needs to
> stand. If the Addict does not know how to listen to his body he will
> collapse and feel like he is going to die.
> Retardant withdrawal last many years, but if you are obedient to your body
> you get there faster.
> Iboga has helped me to do this. Instead of having to fight to teach my
> body for nearly a year how to eat drink and sleep.
> Damage limitation is OK, but why not just Frontal Lobotomise the Addict
> completely with Chemical Coshes and ignore them. Well that is just what
> Methadone does. You just as well have the op and also be castrated at the
> same time. Slavery. Low self esteem could be the root of the problem in
> the first place, but i doubt is, as as a child before experimentation, I
> only wanted to have fun and go for long bike rides and have adventures and
> go fishing.
> Methadone killed all of that and flat lined me.
> I only had a small habit, which was dealt with, with a prehistoric tool,
> just so I would be quiet.
> Well I am sorry folks, but i ain’t dead yet. So you people of the so
> called Revolution. WAKEUP. GGET YOUR HEADS OUT OF THE SAND AND TAKE STOCK
> OF WHAT YOU REALLY HAVE. stop MOANING ABOUT WHAT YOU CANNOT HAVE AND BE
> GREATFULL FOR WHAT YOU DO HAVE. do WHAT THOU WILL SHOULD BE THE WHOLE OF
> THE LAW TO YOU. do NOT COVET THY NAIBOURS GOODS. and LIVE A WHOLE AND
> MORAL LIFE AS YOU SEE FIT. JUDGE AND BE JUDGED.
> if PEOPLE WANT TO THROW CRAP ABOUT ON THIS SIGHT THEY MUST REMEMBER THAT
> THEY NOT ONLY ANSWER TO THEMSELVES, BUT ALSO TO GOD AND THERE FELLOW MAN.
> create NO WARFARE AND THOU SHALL NOT GET WAFARE IN RETURN.
> sorry FOLKS FO THE INTENSITY OF THIS WORD, BUT I HAVE BEEN PUSHED AND
> SHOVED AND USED BY THE SO CALLED CARING SYSTEM ALL MY LIFE, AND NOW WHEN I
> TAKE BACK CONTROL FO MYSELF, I ONLY GET FEAR IN RETURN.
> this IS THE TRUE ROOT OF THE PROBLEM OF WHY AN ADDICT CANNOT RECOVER
> PROPRLY.
> tHE DAMN SYSTEM IS TOO TIGHT TO FEED THEM POPERLY. hOW COME THE mONKS IN
> THIALAND KNOW WHAT THEY ARE DOING, AND THERE SECRET MUST BE A MEMBER OF
> THE VINE OF LIFE. JUST NOT IBOGA. SAME MOLOCULE THOUGH. THE ANCIENT WAYS
> HAVE BEEN WITH MAN SINCE THE BEGINNING OF TIME. SO BY TAKING IBOGA, ONE IS
> NOT SWAPING ONE ADDICTION FOR ANOTHER, BUT ALLOWING ONES-SELF TO TAKE
> STOCK AND REFRESH. dRINK THE WATER, EAT THE GOOD FOOD AND SLEEP AND
> RECOVER.
> aLL THE REST IS BULLSHIT. HERE IS COMPLETE BULSHIT. i AM TRYING TO BUST
> THE BENZOS. I ABSTAINED FOR NINE DAYS AND THEN COLLAPSED AND NEARLY
> FITTED. WHEN I REQUIRED MELATONIN I WENT TO LOOK AND AQUIRE AND THE
> FRIGGIN GOVENMENT HAS MADE IT ELIGAL. 2 WEEKS AGO. SO I HAVE GOT TO PUT UP
> WITH A NUMB AND COLD BODY AND A SCEAMING HEAD, JUST COS I AIN’T FILTHY
> RICH.
> FISH MONGES ARE HONOURABLE LIKE MOST TRADES MEN, BUT MONY MONGERS ARE FULL
> OF SHIT AND HOLD NO HEAT FELT COMPASION. i CANNOT EVEN GET THE DAMN STUFF
> PROSCRIBED ME BY MY OWN DOCTORR, UNLESS I GO TO HARLEY STREET AND PAY 500
> QUID.
> tHIS IS WHAT STICKS IN MY CRAW.
> INTELIGENCE SAYS WHAT TO USE AND WHAT FOR, BUT BECAUSE YOU ARE SEEN AS SO
> CALLED UNKNOWLEDGABLE, YOU GET FUCKED. THERE IS NOTHING UNKNOWLEDGABLE
> ABOUT DAMAGE LIMITATION. SO WHY ALL THE FEAR, WHEN A LITTLE MAN AS MYSELF
> WANTS TO TAKE BACK CONTROL.
> PEACE ENOUGH FOR NOW. PRAY READ AND DIGEST YOU SO CALLED PEOPLE OF
> KNOWLEDGE THAT HAVE NEVER TOOK IBOGA OR ANY SUBSTANCES IN YOUR LIFE.
> HOW THE FUCK CAN YOU SAY YOU HAVE WORN THE T-SHIRT AND SEE, WHEN YOU
> HAVEN’T EVEN GOT THE MONEY FOR THE BUS TO GO SHOPPING WITH IN THE FIST
> PLACE
> tHANKYOU AND
> BLESSINGS TO ALL THAT KNOW AND HERE AND SEE.
>
> STRENGHT, POWE HONOUR SHALL LEAD YOU TO RESPECT YOURSELF.
> PAUL:)~”’
>>
>>In a way I wouldn’t like to do to others what I would not want to be done
>>to me,
>>if I were in the same position.
>>
>>Sara’
>
>
> Spot on Darling!!!
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today – it’s FREE!
> http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/
>
>
>
>
> /]=———————————————————————=[\
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> [%]
>
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Talk is cheap. Use Yahoo! Messenger to make PC-to-Phone calls. Great rates starting at 1¢/min.

From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] The truth hurts but will set you free!!!
Date: April 6, 2006 at 10:07:52 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

WHEN
I REQUIRED MELATONIN I WENT TO LOOK AND AQUIRE AND THE FRIGGIN GOVENMENT HAS
MADE IT ELIGAL. 2 WEEKS AGO.<

What? This is true? I hadn’t heard about this, and if it is true, I’m, while not exactly surprised, appalled.
What was the reasoning if this really has happened?
And congratulation to you Paul.
—–
“If God dropped acid, would he see people?”  ~Steven Wright

Peace, love and lotsof respect.
Preston Peet
ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor Underground- the Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations, Astonishing Archaeology and Hidden History
Editor Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Columnist HighTimes mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —– From: “Paul Brookshaw” <jiggy9@hotmail.co.uk>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Thursday, April 06, 2006 9:36 AM
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] The truth hurts but will set you free!!!

Hi all,
Well i got to add my opinion to all of this i just read. Firstly, a lot of people myself included did not take Heroin, because of low self esteem. It was a kick culture thing. Where i grew up it was the thing to kick back at the system and be an outlaw. It was fun.
The fun stopped when the Dragon grabbed me by the bollocks and then shook my Monkey to pieces. Then out of fear I ran to someone who I thought would know what to do. I was only using a Quarter of a grain of Sugar a day, but when that ran out the drug agency titrated me on 80mg of Methadone. 23 fucking years of torture and slavery. OK now i am clean, still sick. 26 days with no Opiate, but still struggling on a little VAl. The system has got it wrong. The greed of the Man at the so called top, stigmatizes the so called little Man into believing that he is inferior. Like telling a child that they are useless and will not make anything of there life. In the end the poor child believes it. To be used and abused as a child only leads you to believe that that is the way to live life and get the most from it. The truth is lost in darkness and the person believes that if they self destruct enough they will live.
Scenario, Take 700Mic of Acid and then have a panic attack. What you got to do to keep your head from disappearing up your backside, Take, flood the system with vit c and Amino acids and you will hit rock bottom within about 45 mins. Now the person who comes off Methadone or any Opiate must learn that there body does not know how to take on board what it needs to stand. If the Addict does not know how to listen to his body he will collapse and feel like he is going to die.
Retardant withdrawal last many years, but if you are obedient to your body you get there faster.
Iboga has helped me to do this. Instead of having to fight to teach my body for nearly a year how to eat drink and sleep.
Damage limitation is OK, but why not just Frontal Lobotomise the Addict completely with Chemical Coshes and ignore them. Well that is just what Methadone does. You just as well have the op and also be castrated at the same time. Slavery. Low self esteem could be the root of the problem in the first place, but i doubt is, as as a child before experimentation, I only wanted to have fun and go for long bike rides and have adventures and go fishing.
Methadone killed all of that and flat lined me.
I only had a small habit, which was dealt with, with a prehistoric tool, just so I would be quiet.
Well I am sorry folks, but i ain’t dead yet. So you people of the so called Revolution. WAKEUP. GGET YOUR HEADS OUT OF THE SAND AND TAKE STOCK OF WHAT YOU REALLY HAVE. stop MOANING ABOUT WHAT YOU CANNOT HAVE AND BE GREATFULL FOR WHAT YOU DO HAVE. do WHAT THOU WILL SHOULD BE THE WHOLE OF THE LAW TO YOU. do NOT COVET THY NAIBOURS GOODS. and LIVE A WHOLE AND MORAL LIFE AS YOU SEE FIT. JUDGE AND BE JUDGED.
if PEOPLE WANT TO THROW CRAP ABOUT ON THIS SIGHT THEY MUST REMEMBER THAT THEY NOT ONLY ANSWER TO THEMSELVES, BUT ALSO TO GOD AND THERE FELLOW MAN. create NO WARFARE AND THOU SHALL NOT GET WAFARE IN RETURN.
sorry FOLKS FO THE INTENSITY OF THIS WORD, BUT I HAVE BEEN PUSHED AND SHOVED AND USED BY THE SO CALLED CARING SYSTEM ALL MY LIFE, AND NOW WHEN I TAKE BACK CONTROL FO MYSELF, I ONLY GET FEAR IN RETURN.
this IS THE TRUE ROOT OF THE PROBLEM OF WHY AN ADDICT CANNOT RECOVER PROPRLY.
tHE DAMN SYSTEM IS TOO TIGHT TO FEED THEM POPERLY. hOW COME THE mONKS IN THIALAND KNOW WHAT THEY ARE DOING, AND THERE SECRET MUST BE A MEMBER OF THE VINE OF LIFE. JUST NOT IBOGA. SAME MOLOCULE THOUGH. THE ANCIENT WAYS HAVE BEEN WITH MAN SINCE THE BEGINNING OF TIME. SO BY TAKING IBOGA, ONE IS NOT SWAPING ONE ADDICTION FOR ANOTHER, BUT ALLOWING ONES-SELF TO TAKE STOCK AND REFRESH. dRINK THE WATER, EAT THE GOOD FOOD AND SLEEP AND RECOVER.
aLL THE REST IS BULLSHIT. HERE IS COMPLETE BULSHIT. i AM TRYING TO BUST THE BENZOS. I ABSTAINED FOR NINE DAYS AND THEN COLLAPSED AND NEARLY FITTED. WHEN I REQUIRED MELATONIN I WENT TO LOOK AND AQUIRE AND THE FRIGGIN GOVENMENT HAS MADE IT ELIGAL. 2 WEEKS AGO. SO I HAVE GOT TO PUT UP WITH A NUMB AND COLD BODY AND A SCEAMING HEAD, JUST COS I AIN’T FILTHY RICH.
FISH MONGES ARE HONOURABLE LIKE MOST TRADES MEN, BUT MONY MONGERS ARE FULL OF SHIT AND HOLD NO HEAT FELT COMPASION. i CANNOT EVEN GET THE DAMN STUFF PROSCRIBED ME BY MY OWN DOCTORR, UNLESS I GO TO HARLEY STREET AND PAY 500 QUID.
tHIS IS WHAT STICKS IN MY CRAW.
INTELIGENCE SAYS WHAT TO USE AND WHAT FOR, BUT BECAUSE YOU ARE SEEN AS SO CALLED UNKNOWLEDGABLE, YOU GET FUCKED. THERE IS NOTHING UNKNOWLEDGABLE ABOUT DAMAGE LIMITATION. SO WHY ALL THE FEAR, WHEN A LITTLE MAN AS MYSELF WANTS TO TAKE BACK CONTROL.
PEACE ENOUGH FOR NOW. PRAY READ AND DIGEST YOU SO CALLED PEOPLE OF KNOWLEDGE THAT HAVE NEVER TOOK IBOGA OR ANY SUBSTANCES IN YOUR LIFE.
HOW THE FUCK CAN YOU SAY YOU HAVE WORN THE T-SHIRT AND SEE, WHEN YOU HAVEN’T EVEN GOT THE MONEY FOR THE BUS TO GO SHOPPING WITH IN THE FIST PLACE
tHANKYOU AND BLESSINGS TO ALL THAT KNOW AND HERE AND SEE.

STRENGHT, POWE HONOUR SHALL LEAD YOU TO RESPECT YOURSELF.
PAUL:)~”’

In a way I wouldn’t like to do to others what I would not want to be done
to me,
if I were in the same position.

Sara’

Spot on Darling!!!

_________________________________________________________________
Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today – it’s FREE! http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/

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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] (still OT!!!!!) Re: [Ibogaine] Support our London contingent: Git?
Date: April 6, 2006 at 10:04:48 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

“Vice-President Dick Cheney even made millions of dollars profit for himself and Haliburton Company, by selling oil-industry equipment and services to Iraq through third-party countries from 1995 to 2000.” (From Iraq Attack, excerpted and linked further below.)

Billy wrote in his outraged post questioning how folk like “Dana” could call Bush et al “facists” >When in fact it was the spread of hatred that did it, and who started and
kept the hatred going?<

LOL, oh hell, I can’t resist such an open invite to help clear things up a bit:

http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB82/
Shaking Hands with Saddam Hussein
The U.S. Tilts toward Iraq, 1980-1984
National Security Archive Electronic Briefing Book No. 82
Edited by Joyce Battle
February 25, 2003

snip-
Prolonging the war was phenomenally expensive. Iraq received massive external financial support from the Gulf states, and assistance through loan programs from the U.S. The White House and State Department pressured the Export-Import Bank to provide Iraq with financing, to enhance its credit standing and enable it to obtain loans from other international financial institutions. The U.S. Agriculture Department provided taxpayer-guaranteed loans for purchases of American commodities, to the satisfaction of U.S. grain exporters.
The U.S. restored formal relations with Iraq in November 1984, but the U.S. had begun, several years earlier, to provide it with intelligence and military support (in secret and contrary to this country’s official neutrality) in accordance with policy directives from President Ronald Reagan. These were prepared pursuant to his March 1982 National Security Study Memorandum (NSSM 4-82) asking for a review of U.S. policy toward the Middle East.
One of these directives from Reagan, National Security Decision Directive (NSDD) 99, signed on July 12, 1983, is available only in a highly redacted version [Document 21]. It reviews U.S. regional interests in the Middle East and South Asia, and U.S. objectives, including peace between Israel and the Arabs, resolution of other regional conflicts, and economic and military improvements, “to strengthen regional stability.” It deals with threats to the U.S., strategic planning, cooperation with other countries, including the Arab states, and plans for action. An interdepartmental review of the implications of shifting policy in favor of Iraq was conducted following promulgation of the directive.
By the summer of 1983 Iran had been reporting Iraqi use of using chemical weapons for some time. The Geneva protocol requires that the international community respond to chemical warfare, but a diplomatically isolated Iran received only a muted response to its complaints [Note 1]. It intensified its accusations in October 1983, however, and in November asked for a United Nations Security Council investigation.
The U.S., which followed developments in the Iran-Iraq war with extraordinary intensity, had intelligence confirming Iran’s accusations, and describing Iraq’s “almost daily” use of chemical weapons, concurrent with its policy review and decision to support Iraq in the war [Document 24]. The intelligence indicated that Iraq used chemical weapons against Iranian forces, and, according to a November 1983 memo, against “Kurdish insurgents” as well [Document 25].
snip-
(Of course, the US Army War College actually came out with a report accusing IRAN of gassing the Kurds, not Iraq, but that “fact” is usually ignored in the press:

http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/helms.html
US Army War College: NO PROOF SADDAM GASSED THE KURDS!
Memo to Jess Helms from InfoTimes. Note excerpt from US Army War College report that no evidence exists to support US claims that Iraq used gas on the Kurds. )

http://www.disinfo.com/archive/pages/dossier/id938/pg1/index.html
Iraq Attack (March 7, 2001)
(by Preston Peet- there are a LOT of links both imbedded within the main text of this article, and following the essay too there is a long list of further links, for those who can, and do not only read but use their brains for critical thinking.)

snip-
Bush bombed Iraq twice within a week (February 16-22), striving manfully to play catch-up to Clinton’s incessant bombing of Iraq since Operation Desert Fox (December 1998).
Accusing the Serbs and the Chinese of helping the Iraqis install an advanced fiber optics system that would increase the accuracy of Iraqi missiles fired at US and UK warplanes, the Bush administration has neglected to mention it was dual-purpose technology from the US being installed, designed by AT&T.

The Chinese obtained the technology in 1994 from William Perry, the Clinton administration’s Secretary of Defense.

This would be a case of Clinton “following in the footsteps of his predecessor,” as George Herbert Bush was also heavily involved in the same practice.

When George Herbert Bush left office, investigators discovered that he had not only been enabling Saddam to defraud the US taxpayers by diverting grain-credits towards buying weapons and rebuilding his military since 1985, but that he had allowed highly-restricted dual-use technology, which can be used for both civilian and military purposes, to be sold to Saddam Hussein.

(Not only that, but George Herbert Bush also allowed sales to the Chinese of dual-use technology, particularly for use in launching missiles.)

As the Center for Security Studies noted in 1992, the harm caused by the Iran-Contra scandal was negligible compared to those of Bush’s policy on Iraq, which resulted in $2 Billion in defaulted taxpayer-subsidized credit guarantees, “to say nothing of the human, financial and environmental costs of a war necessitated by Saddam’s aggression which was, in turn, made possible at least partially by US assistance,” Time magazine reporter Tony Karon wrote in December 2000. Karon observed that a Bush presidential victory wouldn’t mean a whole lot to China, because “where the Clinton administration harangued China periodically about human-rights, the Bush administration might be more likely to draw lines in the sand such as the sale of missile technology to third countries [emphasis added]. But the bottom line is that both teams have been opening up China for business, and President-elect Bush was a hearty supporter of lifting the annual Congressional review of trade relations between the two countries.”

snip-

On Friday, February 16, 2001), on the Muslim Sabbath, 24 British and American warplanes “swooped in” at 35,000 feet, and while still within the Southern no-fly zone, fired 2000 pound Paveway III laser-guided missiles, and an unknown number of Raytheon/Texas Instruments-designed ‘stand-off’ bombs, costing $300,000 each, at Al Suwayrah, a sophisticated Iraqi radar and command center about 40 miles south-west of Baghdad. Five separate targets were hit, resulting in at least two civilian deaths (seven deaths in total), reported by Baghdad.

snip-

“Harken Energy Corporation – in which George W. Bush served as company director and corporate consultant before entering politics – gained 5.4 percent by the end of trading. Harken Energy happens to be a key player in Colombian oil, with a multi-billion dollar aid package on hand to protect its investments. Harken Energy CEO Mikel Faulkner is a former business associate of G.W.”

Is it a coincidence that 2 days before this latest raid, in which president George W. Bush had to personally sign off on his first military order, he had publicly “confirmed” a $2.6 billion increase of the Pentagon’s budget, only a “down payment on new-weapons research and development?”

snip-

Vice-President Dick Cheney even made millions of dollars profit for himself and Haliburton Company, by selling oil-industry equipment and services to Iraq through third-party countries from 1995 to 2000. Cheney thereby avoiding the ‘strict’ sanctions that he and the rest of George Herbert Bush’s crew made sure to put in place, and which Clinton kept in place. The Chinese are alleged, in a similar fashion, to have forwarded the fiber optics technology bought from the US in 1994, on to Iraq.

snip-

US forces under commanders like General Barry McCaffrey [maniacal, bloodthirsty US Drug Czar under Clinton, for those here on the ibo list who might be unaware of this tidbit of trivia] were literally slaughtering Iraqi forces, who never stood a chance, despite the intense Allied propaganda campaign which painted them as one of the largest, most modern armies in the world.

Nothing stood between the Allied forces and Baghdad but beaten, retreating Iraqis and dead bodies. When George Herbert Bush called off his dogs of war, he stopped US Generals Colin Powell and Norman Schwarzkopf from making a triumphant entry into the Iraqi capital. Why? Because Iraq is worth more to the ruling-class alive and struggling than it is bled-dry and left for dead.

The current geopolitical scenario concerning Iraq was veritably designed by George Herbert Bush’s strategists, and continued by the next two administrations, in order to justify war profiteering. The policy has enabled US defense contractors to continue raking in their dough of death while developing and supplying big oil’s competition-killing murder-machinery.

How dare the Iraqi people not overthrow their un-elected ruler? They should have total control over their government, but they don’t, so they’re going to continue getting what they “deserve.”

(As noted already, there are a lot of links both in the complete text and following the main essay itself at the URL at the top of this excerpted post)

—–
“If God dropped acid, would he see people?”  ~Steven Wright

Peace, love and lotsof respect.
Preston Peet
ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor Underground- the Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations, Astonishing Archaeology and Hidden History
Editor Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Columnist HighTimes mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —– From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Thursday, April 06, 2006 9:20 AM
Subject: [Ibogaine] (OT!!!!!) Re: [Ibogaine] Support our London contingent: Git?

Hi all,
While I feel pretty strongly about the whole food issue, at least we’ve managed to stay fairly civil towards one another, not to metion fairly rational and polite. The below dreck from “pro-life” Billy though, I couldn’t let slide by without a comment, as far off topic as it appears to be.

that spread hatred and excuse for our soldiers and other
people that are standing up for us to get KILLED. You would be the first to
let the enemy know where our troops are so they could get killed and then
say It Was George Bush That did it.<

Wait a minute- besides the above being total bullshit, Bush et all have indeed lied repeatedly about the reasons for warring on the innocent living, breathing civilians living in Iraq (and elsewhere and lied about so much more too), Iraqis who were/are no threat to us here in the US at all in any way, shape or form (except to those making oodles of money off oil and war of course)- or once living but now murdered by warmongering bloodthirsty killers and liars- and that’d be the anti-war folks’ fault? LOL, egad!
When exactly did Dana spread hate that resulted in more bombs being dropped, less money going to social programs here at home to help care for our fellow right-now-alive-as-we-speak neighbors and friends and citizens, and yet more money going to bomb/gun/deathcontraption manufacturers? I can think of many instances whereby our “president” did lie and the results were those enummerated above.
I do consider you a homophobe or a bigot if you come out saying homosexuality was/is “wrong” or sinful Billy.
And how is our protesting the evil War on Iraq getting our soldiers killed, and how exactly are they standing up for “us” by killing Iraqis or being killed by Iraqis? This is a rhetorical question actually, as it’s already more than clear that you are totally supportive of the warmongering and killing going on in our names. Unless, as you’ve made abundantly clear, it’s of not-yet-born fetuses of course.
I’m posting the (very brief) except below, just in case you not only CAN read (and critically think) but bother to do so on occasion:

http://news.nationaljournal.com/articles/0330nj1.htm

Insulating Bush
By Murray Waas, National Journal
© National Journal Group Inc.
Thursday, March 30, 2006
Karl Rove, President Bush’s chief political adviser, cautioned other White House aides in the summer of 2003 that Bush’s 2004 re-election prospects would be severely damaged if it was publicly disclosed that he had been personally warned that a key rationale for going to war had been challenged within the administration. Rove expressed his concerns shortly after an inform