Ibogaine List Archives – 2006-04-2

From: “Sara Glatt” <sara119@xs4all.nl>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Just a reply,to All This?Pau l (grasshopper ot, no revelations chiming in w/ usual tripe))
Date: April 12, 2006 at 8:11:29 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Thanks Ron for being there,

all I can say is that Paul as much as he suffered coming off all those drugs,
he treated me and my family really respectfully and showed generosity,
he didn’t demand anything and was very friendly to everyone who came along.
maybe his writing is extremely irrelevant to some people, but his deed are
showing his heart is in the right place.
it doesn’t matter what you like to eat, a good person has good deeds and
that what counts more then a talk.that’s why I appriciate what you do RON.

peace,

Sara

more back sniping?  you crazy people.  careful someone duzn’t bring that
darn klown back.  just kidding. he was too polarizing and offensive and
grasshopper doesn’t want to offend others sharing same foxhole.  but he
has
relatives…sleeper klownz on the list.  will surprise most. did me when
contacted off list. i was like , huh? not you too. i’m stickin to telling
my
story as trite and meaningless as it is.  don’t tell me how sick you were,
tell me how well you got and how to stay that way cuz this shite will kill
you as it is doing me.
—– Original Message —–
From: “Kirk” <captkirk@clear.net.nz>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Tuesday, April 11, 2006 3:39 PM
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Just a reply,to All This?Paul

Lol Billy, the masculine/feminine comments were MINE, and as per usual I
did
a bad job of explaining it….therefore they’ve been misinterpreted
misunderstood etc. If anyone has a link to help explain what I mean by
masc/fem I would be forever grateful!!!!
Ok.

—–Original Message—–
From: Billy J [mailto:billjohnson6@sympatico.ca]
Sent: Tuesday, 11 April 2006 4:29 p.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Just a reply,to All This?Paul

He Paul, whats this stuff about taking Iboga for masculinity?,Who,?
And you have taken Ibogaine and it has helped clean you Up?
What was your Experiance like and where you a person following Jesus
preior
to or after? Or who do you follow?
Did you see Jesus during your trip?

Talk about how You got there what the experiance was like along with
your
suggestions for a Ibogaine candidate, as well as what you have done for
follow-up?

I do n

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] (Sorta WAY OT!- semi-nuddie pics) Fw: slipper pix
Date: April 12, 2006 at 7:34:21 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

sorry, I’m not posting photos anymore. again my apologies.

—–
“If God dropped acid, would he see people?”  ~Steven Wright

Peace, love and lotsof respect.
Preston Peet
ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor Underground- the Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations, Astonishing Archaeology and Hidden History
Editor Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Columnist HighTimes mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —– From: <slowone@hush.ai>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Tuesday, April 11, 2006 10:31 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] (Sorta WAY OT!- semi-nuddie pics) Fw: slipper pix

This filled my mailbox.. sigh.

On Sun, 02 Apr 2006 07:46:16 -0700 Preston Peet <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
wrote:
HI all,
Just thought I’d share the photos below. Hopefully they won’t
clog up people’s boxes, and if they do I humbly apologize.
But I thought I’d share how I spend most weekends. These were
taken Friday night while I was dj’ing Hot Box, the Slipper Room’s
Friday night burlesque extravaganza, and unfortunately these
photos don’t do the humor and talent credit. Still, some of these
are quite good. (V dj’s every other Saturday now, for Mr. Choad’s
Upstairs/Downstairs burlesque show, instead of each Saturday as
she did for the last 3 years or so- and she isn’t in any of these
shots, not being a dancer, even though she could probably clean up

doing so.)
;-))
Anyway, hope everyone is having a good Sunday and not overtaxing
themselves with worry, stress or the absolute weirdness about how
some folk seem to think “abusive” language and behavior and
“therapeutic” can, logically, fit together in any sane, rational
treatment of addicts and drug abusers.
BTW, the girl with the tattoos (Peekaboo Point) is my pilates
trainer.
And, though it isn’t obvious from the one photo of me in here,
just to tie this in in a wee manner to the topic at hand, I am
seriously baked to the gills during this particular evening’s
event, so baked in fact that I had the most overwhelming headrush
I’ve ever had on Friday night, at least since the first summer I
ever smoked pot. After having taken a huge hit of the BEST EVER
Strawberry Cough while crouched down behind the turntables out of
sight of the packed house, I then stood up and whoa! Head Rush! I
almost fell over and did in fact accidentally hit the fade switch
during said blinding rush, and conked out the music for a few
second because I couldn’t see anything nor could I hear through
the high-pitched keening sound in my ears from the blood rushing
(into? Out of?) my ears. When it first started, I thought for a
second that the cd was screwing up or something and reached for
the machine to do some finagling, only to find myself struck blind

and deaf by the headrush. What causes this? Does anyone know the
science behind this phenomenon, what causes a headrush I mean?
Anyway, enjoy the photos.
—–
“If God dropped acid, would he see people?”  ~Steven Wright

Peace, love and lotsof respect.
Preston Peet
ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor Underground- the Disinformation Guide to Ancient
Civilizations, Astonishing Archaeology and Hidden History
Editor Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Columnist HighTimes mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —– From: ABuckit@aol.com
To:
Cc: ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Sent: Saturday, April 01, 2006 5:34 PM
Subject: Re: slipper pix

Allo D.T.

From last night.

If you would be most kind and pass these pictures onto the others,

as I don’t have their emails. I have many more, these are a quick
selection.
Also, Miss D.T., Are you getting my emails? You are on the list.
Again, a treat to see you last night, Much love

Adrian

Concerned about your privacy? Instantly send FREE secure email, no account required
http://www.hushmail.com/send?l=480

Get the best prices on SSL certificates from Hushmail
https://www.hushssl.com?l=485

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Reasons for Anger.
Date: April 12, 2006 at 7:08:51 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

don’t bum out callie. I think of you (and many others here) often, in good ways.
Did that help?
;-)))

—–
“If God dropped acid, would he see people?”  ~Steven Wright

Peace, love and lotsof respect.
Preston

—– Original Message —– From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Tuesday, April 11, 2006 4:19 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Reasons for Anger.

In a message dated 4/11/2006 2:44:44 P.M. Central Standard Time, jon@mindvox.com writes:
walked up the Mountain, and
when
I reached the

top. I said, GOD IF IT IS MY TIME TO GO I WILL SEE YOU IN A MINUTE MATE.
And
then I jumped

off, knowing full well that out of blind Faith, GOD would catch me.
What mountain did you jump off Jiggy?

Three little tips for a content and happy life.
Find someone to LOVE (yourself fist) Have and allow someone to LOVE
you(GOD)
and find

something to do. Earn your money so as you have all that you require.
Simple
really.

It does sound simple but we know it isn’t. For one thing, I have trouble turning my mind off. I have trouble leaving the problems at home.
You gotta like your job too and right now I do not like mine worth a damn!
I should get out and find myself a different job but that is not easy when everyone has started doing background checks.
I am not a serial killer but I do have several shoplifting charges, a couple counts of forging prescriptions and four possession of controlled substance charges. Nothing really bad but bad enough to keep me from being hired at even cleaning jobs!! They have told me in the past that if something come up missing and the client or employer wants the employee backgrounds checked, they could be liable even if I were completely innocent because of the petty theft (shoplifting) charges.
Excuses, maybe but really I don’t think so.
So, I have been trying very hard to just be happy and grateful of the job I have but it is difficult when you aren’t enjoying yourself at all!

Damn, life can be a bummer, can’t it? That is why I love my opiates so fucking much! I have this fear in me that I will never be totally happy and will die with many regrets.
bumming out,
Callie

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Just a reply,to All This?Paul
Date: April 12, 2006 at 7:07:13 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I do not really hear of anybody here that actually has a job that they work
at?? and if so how long after stopping Methadone and or whatever where you
and or ANYBODY, Capable ,Mentally and physically to go back to work.<

I’m a writer and editor, and despite my sloppy posts full of misspellings and typoes here onlist, I do work “regularly.” It took not that long after taking ibogaine (sometimes just a couple of days) to get back to full-time working, but after kicking methadone cold, it took me at least a month to feel up to working again.
The worst thing for my working was NEVER my drugs, neither my habit drugs nor my ibogaine- it was the Sept. 11 attacks, watching the second tower fall from my rooftop that most adversely affected my work. It took me months to recover from that.
And I turned to using harder drugs (again) for a few years after the Sept. 11 attacks too.

—–
“If God dropped acid, would he see people?”  ~Steven Wright

Peace, love and lotsof respect.
Preston Peet
ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor Underground- the Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations, Astonishing Archaeology and Hidden History
Editor Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Columnist HighTimes mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —– From: “Billy J” <billjohnson6@sympatico.ca>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Tuesday, April 11, 2006 12:29 AM
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Just a reply,to All This?Paul

He Paul, whats this stuff about taking Iboga for masculinity?,Who,?
And you have taken Ibogaine and it has helped clean you Up?
What was your Experiance like and where you a person following Jesus preior to or after? Or who do you follow?
Did you see Jesus during your trip?

Talk about how You got there what the experiance was like along with your suggestions for a Ibogaine candidate, as well as what you have done for follow-up?

I do not really hear of anybody here that actually has a job that they work at?? and if so how long after stopping Methadone and or whatever where you and or ANYBODY, Capable ,Mentally and physically to go back to work.

Biill , And May God Help Us All ( I Know He Has Already)

—-Original Message Follows—-
From: Kirk <captkirk@clear.net.nz>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Kirk!
Date: Tue, 11 Apr 2006 09:56:06 +1200
MIME-Version: 1.0
Received: from tomts3-srv.bellnexxia.net ([209.226.175.115]) by bay0-pamc1-f11.bay0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Mon, 10 Apr 2006 14:57:27 -0700
Received: from toip3.bellnexxia.net ([209.226.175.86])          by tomts3-srv.bellnexxia.net          (InterMail vM.5.01.06.13 201-253-122-130-113-20050324) with ESMTP          id <20060410215832.BESO19199.tomts3-srv.bellnexxia.net@toip3.bellnexxia.net> for <billjohnson6@sympatico.ca>; Mon, 10 Apr 2006 17:58:32 -0400
Received: from tanelorn.mindvox.com (HELO mail.mindvox.com) ([64.124.179.118])  by toip3.bellnexxia.net with ESMTP; 10 Apr 2006 17:57:16 -0400
Received: (qmail 10564 invoked by uid 513); 10 Apr 2006 17:57:15 -0400
Received: (qmail 10558 invoked by uid 514); 10 Apr 2006 17:57:15 -0400
X-Message-Info: moY6YVwXQ472bANwyL6c7oELEu+2nl93gltq8RW3WAA=
Mailing-List: contact ibogaine-help@mindvox.com; run by ezmlm
Precedence: bulk
X-No-Archive: yes
List-Post: <mailto:ibogaine@mindvox.com>
List-Help: <mailto:ibogaine-help@mindvox.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:ibogaine-unsubscribe@mindvox.com>
List-Subscribe: <mailto:ibogaine-subscribe@mindvox.com>
Delivered-To: mailing list ibogaine@mindvox.com
X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.4 required=4.0
X-Antivirus-MYDOMAIN-Mail-From: captkirk@clear.net.nz via tanelorn.mindvox.com
X-Antivirus-MYDOMAIN: 1.25-st-qms (Clear:RC:0(203.97.37.27):SA:0(-2.4/4.0):. Processed in 6.495163 secs Process 10550)
X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.6353
Thread-index: AcZc54erLU+mI2KZQQ+ColcuGzVO0gAAXQJg
Return-Path: ibogaine-return-23504-billjohnson6=sympatico.ca@mindvox.com
X-OriginalArrivalTime: 10 Apr 2006 21:57:27.0687 (UTC) FILETIME=[C1E65170:01C65CE9]

Thinking he who rants loudest and rudest could be the one who has lost the
plot.
Why are you attacking people so rudely on this list for them having an
opinion that differs from yours?
Think you need to question why that is.
Debate is cool, but you’re just being rude and not allowing for any other
opinion bar your own tunnel visioned one.
I hope YOU get to see the full picture one day.
In the meantime, I wish you well.
Kirk

—–Original Message—–
From: Paul Brookshaw [mailto:jiggy9@hotmail.co.uk]
Sent: Tuesday, 11 April 2006 9:23 a.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Kirk!

Hello Kirk,
I think what yoiu just said is crap. Pure egotistical rubbish.
Methadone lol
Let me tell you where i have just come from. OK
For the last 6 years I had been taking, 80mg of Methadone +, half a gram of
Scag, 600mg of Dihydracodine. 40mg of Certraline, 150mg of Valium, plus
little tickles in between of Moggys and Tamazapam. A bottle of vodka, plus 4

special brews. 3000mg of Gabapentin, 15 grms of weed, plus tobacco, and now
i am clean.
What do you mean by Methadone eh?
I took Iboga to stop myself from self anialation. You took it cos you whee
to masculine.
Get a life.
Seriously. You both deserve one another.
You’ve lost the plot completely.
Another one bites the dust. lolol>’~+

Blessings be with you and may you see fully one day. lolol
That is why I seem to moke OK?
Get it sorted.

Bless you Paul:)’

_________________________________________________________________
Are you using the latest version of MSN Messenger? Download MSN Messenger
7.5 today! http://join.msn.com/messenger/overview

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html
[%]

\]=———————————————————————=[/


No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.385 / Virus Database: 268.4.0/306 – Release Date: 04/09/2006


No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.385 / Virus Database: 268.4.0/306 – Release Date: 04/09/2006

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Re: ibogaine and insanity
Date: April 12, 2006 at 7:01:20 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Thanks Krista.
I guess it’s yet another “test” of my willpower, to see if I can remain calm and unoffended by those things (and people) I “cannot change.”
;-))

—–
“If God dropped acid, would he see people?”  ~Steven Wright

Peace, love and lotsof respect.
Preston

—– Original Message —– From: “Krista Vaughan” <krista.vaughan@gmail.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Tuesday, April 11, 2006 2:58 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Re: ibogaine and insanity

Before ibogaine Paul was just angry and attacked people. The emotions
in his messages before and after are identical, just that after
ibogaine he’s started to fill them up with bible verse.

Good luck Paul! Hang in there.

KV

On 4/11/06, Preston Peet <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com> wrote:
Paul is the first person I’ve seen go completely, undeniably insane from
taking ibogaine (of course, I can’t remember what Paul was posting pre-ibo,
if he was actually posting here pre-ibo, so perhaps he’s always been
completely bonkers, hard to tell).
Are there are figures anywhere compiled that show how many people may have
had such adverse results (or have just plain “gone crazy”) from taking
ibogaine?

—–
“If God dropped acid, would he see people?”  ~Steven Wright

remaining blather deleted.

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: Kirk <captkirk@clear.net.nz>
Subject: [Ibogaine] Re: CHIIIIII~!~
Date: April 12, 2006 at 3:46:28 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Heyy Chi!!
Gee you must get covered in slobber holding your tongue. Let it go and let
it flap!!
No, second thoughts, just hold it….. lol, I let mine flap and regretted
it, best to sit back and let it run it’s course.  I guess we’re all trying
to find our way, some are just a bit vocal about what they think they’ve
found than others. Onward thru the fog. It’s all good.
Yoga huh!!!  Let me know when you’ve masterd the Lotus!!!
Jasen ay!!  Don’t listen to him he’s a LOONEY “winking in Jasen’s general
direction
Hehehehe
Keep in touch Chi, or else, I’ll set …… something on you…..
Ok
Good
Kirk xxxx

—–Original Message—–
From: cm [mailto:cm67@optusnet.com.au]
Sent: Tuesday, 11 April 2006 10:55 p.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Kirk!

hey kirsty, love you heaps. ive been just sitting back and reading lately,
trying to hold my tongue.
some total knobs on this list (did i just say that out loud). if some ppl
had taken all the crap they
claim to have put in their system theyd be dead by now.
now, on to happy thoughts, i went to my 1st yoga class today with jasen –
was great. i’ll let you
know how much pain im in in a couple of days.
chi xooooo (lotsa hugs)
—– Original Message —–
From: “Kirk” <captkirk@clear.net.nz>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Tuesday, April 11, 2006 7:56 AM
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Kirk!

Thinking he who rants loudest and rudest could be the one who has lost the
plot.
Why are you attacking people so rudely on this list for them having an
opinion that differs from yours?
Think you need to question why that is.
Debate is cool, but you’re just being rude and not allowing for any other
opinion bar your own tunnel visioned one.
I hope YOU get to see the full picture one day.
In the meantime, I wish you well.
Kirk

—–Original Message—–
From: Paul Brookshaw [mailto:jiggy9@hotmail.co.uk]
Sent: Tuesday, 11 April 2006 9:23 a.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Kirk!

Hello Kirk,
I think what yoiu just said is crap. Pure egotistical rubbish.
Methadone lol
Let me tell you where i have just come from. OK
For the last 6 years I had been taking, 80mg of Methadone +, half a gram
of
Scag, 600mg of Dihydracodine. 40mg of Certraline, 150mg of Valium, plus
little tickles in between of Moggys and Tamazapam. A bottle of vodka, plus

4

special brews. 3000mg of Gabapentin, 15 grms of weed, plus tobacco, and
now
i am clean.
What do you mean by Methadone eh?
I took Iboga to stop myself from self anialation. You took it cos you whee
to masculine.
Get a life.
Seriously. You both deserve one another.
You’ve lost the plot completely.
Another one bites the dust. lolol>’~+

Blessings be with you and may you see fully one day. lolol
That is why I seem to moke OK?
Get it sorted.

Bless you Paul:)’

_________________________________________________________________
Are you using the latest version of MSN Messenger? Download MSN Messenger
7.5 today! http://join.msn.com/messenger/overview

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html
[%]

\]=———————————————————————=[/


No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.385 / Virus Database: 268.4.0/306 – Release Date: 04/09/2006


No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.385 / Virus Database: 268.4.0/306 – Release Date: 04/09/2006

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html
[%]

\]=———————————————————————=[/

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html
[%]

\]=———————————————————————=[/


No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.385 / Virus Database: 268.4.1/308 – Release Date: 04/11/2006


No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.385 / Virus Database: 268.4.1/308 – Release Date: 04/11/2006

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: “cm” <cm67@optusnet.com.au>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Kirk!
Date: April 11, 2006 at 6:55:27 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

hey kirsty, love you heaps. ive been just sitting back and reading lately, trying to hold my tongue.
some total knobs on this list (did i just say that out loud). if some ppl had taken all the crap they
claim to have put in their system theyd be dead by now.
now, on to happy thoughts, i went to my 1st yoga class today with jasen – was great. i’ll let you
know how much pain im in in a couple of days.
chi xooooo (lotsa hugs)
—– Original Message —– From: “Kirk” <captkirk@clear.net.nz>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Tuesday, April 11, 2006 7:56 AM
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Kirk!

Thinking he who rants loudest and rudest could be the one who has lost the
plot.
Why are you attacking people so rudely on this list for them having an
opinion that differs from yours?
Think you need to question why that is.
Debate is cool, but you’re just being rude and not allowing for any other
opinion bar your own tunnel visioned one.
I hope YOU get to see the full picture one day.
In the meantime, I wish you well.
Kirk

—–Original Message—–
From: Paul Brookshaw [mailto:jiggy9@hotmail.co.uk]
Sent: Tuesday, 11 April 2006 9:23 a.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Kirk!

Hello Kirk,
I think what yoiu just said is crap. Pure egotistical rubbish.
Methadone lol
Let me tell you where i have just come from. OK
For the last 6 years I had been taking, 80mg of Methadone +, half a gram of
Scag, 600mg of Dihydracodine. 40mg of Certraline, 150mg of Valium, plus
little tickles in between of Moggys and Tamazapam. A bottle of vodka, plus 4

special brews. 3000mg of Gabapentin, 15 grms of weed, plus tobacco, and now
i am clean.
What do you mean by Methadone eh?
I took Iboga to stop myself from self anialation. You took it cos you whee
to masculine.
Get a life.
Seriously. You both deserve one another.
You’ve lost the plot completely.
Another one bites the dust. lolol>’~+

Blessings be with you and may you see fully one day. lolol
That is why I seem to moke OK?
Get it sorted.

Bless you Paul:)’

_________________________________________________________________
Are you using the latest version of MSN Messenger? Download MSN Messenger
7.5 today! http://join.msn.com/messenger/overview

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html
[%]

\]=———————————————————————=[/


No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.385 / Virus Database: 268.4.0/306 – Release Date: 04/09/2006


No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.385 / Virus Database: 268.4.0/306 – Release Date: 04/09/2006

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: Kirk <captkirk@clear.net.nz>
Subject: [Ibogaine] OT Mushroom season
Date: April 12, 2006 at 1:24:46 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Here’s what springs up on my front lawn this time of year. Usually get heaps of them, but having big booted workmen here has really pissed the Fly Agaric Faeres off this year. Still purdy though.
PS never taken them lol.

–
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.385 / Virus Database: 268.4.1/308 – Release Date: 04/11/2006

From: Kirk <captkirk@clear.net.nz>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Just a reply,to All This?Pau l (grasshopper ot, no revelations chiming in w/ usual tripe))
Date: April 12, 2006 at 1:06:22 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hahahah nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo NOT THE CLOWN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
;o)

—–Original Message—–
From: grasshopper [mailto:rwd3@cox.net]
Sent: Wednesday, 12 April 2006 4:26 p.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Just a reply,to All This?Pau l (grasshopper ot, no
revelations chiming in w/ usual tripe))

more back sniping?  you crazy people.  careful someone duzn’t bring that
darn klown back.  just kidding. he was too polarizing and offensive and
grasshopper doesn’t want to offend others sharing same foxhole.  but he has
relatives…sleeper klownz on the list.  will surprise most. did me when
contacted off list. i was like , huh? not you too. i’m stickin to telling my

story as trite and meaningless as it is.  don’t tell me how sick you were,
tell me how well you got and how to stay that way cuz this shite will kill
you as it is doing me.
—– Original Message —–
From: “Kirk” <captkirk@clear.net.nz>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Tuesday, April 11, 2006 3:39 PM
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Just a reply,to All This?Paul

Lol Billy, the masculine/feminine comments were MINE, and as per usual I
did
a bad job of explaining it….therefore they’ve been misinterpreted
misunderstood etc. If anyone has a link to help explain what I mean by
masc/fem I would be forever grateful!!!!
Ok.

—–Original Message—–
From: Billy J [mailto:billjohnson6@sympatico.ca]
Sent: Tuesday, 11 April 2006 4:29 p.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Just a reply,to All This?Paul

He Paul, whats this stuff about taking Iboga for masculinity?,Who,?
And you have taken Ibogaine and it has helped clean you Up?
What was your Experiance like and where you a person following Jesus
preior
to or after? Or who do you follow?
Did you see Jesus during your trip?

Talk about how You got there what the experiance was like along with your
suggestions for a Ibogaine candidate, as well as what you have done for
follow-up?

I do not really hear of anybody here that actually has a job that they
work
at?? and if so how long after stopping Methadone and or whatever where you
and or ANYBODY, Capable ,Mentally and physically to go back to work.

Biill , And May God Help Us All ( I Know He Has Already)

—-Original Message Follows—-
From: Kirk <captkirk@clear.net.nz>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Kirk!
Date: Tue, 11 Apr 2006 09:56:06 +1200
MIME-Version: 1.0
Received: from tomts3-srv.bellnexxia.net ([209.226.175.115]) by
bay0-pamc1-f11.bay0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830);
Mon,
10 Apr 2006 14:57:27 -0700
Received: from toip3.bellnexxia.net ([209.226.175.86])          by
tomts3-srv.bellnexxia.net          (InterMail vM.5.01.06.13
201-253-122-130-113-20050324) with ESMTP          id
<20060410215832.BESO19199.tomts3-srv.bellnexxia.net@toip3.bellnexxia.net>

for <billjohnson6@sympatico.ca>; Mon, 10 Apr 2006 17:58:32 -0400
Received: from tanelorn.mindvox.com (HELO mail.mindvox.com)
([64.124.179.118])  by toip3.bellnexxia.net with ESMTP; 10 Apr 2006
17:57:16

-0400
Received: (qmail 10564 invoked by uid 513); 10 Apr 2006 17:57:15 -0400
Received: (qmail 10558 invoked by uid 514); 10 Apr 2006 17:57:15 -0400
X-Message-Info: moY6YVwXQ472bANwyL6c7oELEu+2nl93gltq8RW3WAA=
Mailing-List: contact ibogaine-help@mindvox.com; run by ezmlm
Precedence: bulk
X-No-Archive: yes
List-Post: <mailto:ibogaine@mindvox.com>
List-Help: <mailto:ibogaine-help@mindvox.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:ibogaine-unsubscribe@mindvox.com>
List-Subscribe: <mailto:ibogaine-subscribe@mindvox.com>
Delivered-To: mailing list ibogaine@mindvox.com
X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.4 required=4.0
X-Antivirus-MYDOMAIN-Mail-From: captkirk@clear.net.nz via
tanelorn.mindvox.com
X-Antivirus-MYDOMAIN: 1.25-st-qms
(Clear:RC:0(203.97.37.27):SA:0(-2.4/4.0):.

Processed in 6.495163 secs Process 10550)
X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.6353
Thread-index: AcZc54erLU+mI2KZQQ+ColcuGzVO0gAAXQJg
Return-Path: ibogaine-return-23504-billjohnson6=sympatico.ca@mindvox.com
X-OriginalArrivalTime: 10 Apr 2006 21:57:27.0687 (UTC)
FILETIME=[C1E65170:01C65CE9]

Thinking he who rants loudest and rudest could be the one who has lost the
plot.
Why are you attacking people so rudely on this list for them having an
opinion that differs from yours?
Think you need to question why that is.
Debate is cool, but you’re just being rude and not allowing for any other
opinion bar your own tunnel visioned one.
I hope YOU get to see the full picture one day.
In the meantime, I wish you well.
Kirk

—–Original Message—–
From: Paul Brookshaw [mailto:jiggy9@hotmail.co.uk]
Sent: Tuesday, 11 April 2006 9:23 a.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Kirk!

Hello Kirk,
I think what yoiu just said is crap. Pure egotistical
rubbish.
Methadone lol
Let me tell you where i have just come from. OK
For the last 6 years I had been taking, 80mg of Methadone +, half a gram
of
Scag, 600mg of Dihydracodine. 40mg of Certraline, 150mg of Valium, plus
little tickles in between of Moggys and Tamazapam. A bottle of vodka, plus

4

special brews. 3000mg of Gabapentin, 15 grms of weed, plus tobacco, and
now
i am clean.
What do you mean by Methadone eh?
I took Iboga to stop myself from self anialation. You took it cos you whee
to masculine.
Get a life.
Seriously. You both deserve one another.
You’ve lost the plot completely.
Another one bites the dust. lolol>’~+

Blessings be with you and may you see fully one day. lolol
That is why I seem to moke OK?
Get it sorted.

Bless you Paul:)’

_________________________________________________________________
Are you using the latest version of MSN Messenger? Download MSN Messenger
7.5 today! http://join.msn.com/messenger/overview

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html
[%]

\]=———————————————————————=[/


No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.385 / Virus Database: 268.4.0/306 – Release Date: 04/09/2006


No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.385 / Virus Database: 268.4.0/306 – Release Date: 04/09/2006

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html
[%]

\]=———————————————————————=[/

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html
[%]

\]=———————————————————————=[/


No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.385 / Virus Database: 268.4.1/307 – Release Date: 04/10/2006


No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.385 / Virus Database: 268.4.1/307 – Release Date: 04/10/2006

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html
[%]

\]=———————————————————————=[/

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html
[%]

\]=———————————————————————=[/


No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.385 / Virus Database: 268.4.1/308 – Release Date: 04/11/2006


No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.385 / Virus Database: 268.4.1/308 – Release Date: 04/11/2006

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: “grasshopper” <rwd3@cox.net>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Just a reply,to All This?Pau l (grasshopper ot, no revelations chiming in w/ usual tripe))
Date: April 12, 2006 at 12:25:56 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

more back sniping?  you crazy people.  careful someone duzn’t bring that darn klown back.  just kidding. he was too polarizing and offensive and grasshopper doesn’t want to offend others sharing same foxhole.  but he has relatives…sleeper klownz on the list.  will surprise most. did me when contacted off list. i was like , huh? not you too. i’m stickin to telling my story as trite and meaningless as it is.  don’t tell me how sick you were, tell me how well you got and how to stay that way cuz this shite will kill you as it is doing me.
—– Original Message —– From: “Kirk” <captkirk@clear.net.nz>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Tuesday, April 11, 2006 3:39 PM
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Just a reply,to All This?Paul

Lol Billy, the masculine/feminine comments were MINE, and as per usual I did
a bad job of explaining it….therefore they’ve been misinterpreted
misunderstood etc. If anyone has a link to help explain what I mean by
masc/fem I would be forever grateful!!!!
Ok.

—–Original Message—–
From: Billy J [mailto:billjohnson6@sympatico.ca]
Sent: Tuesday, 11 April 2006 4:29 p.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Just a reply,to All This?Paul

He Paul, whats this stuff about taking Iboga for masculinity?,Who,?
And you have taken Ibogaine and it has helped clean you Up?
What was your Experiance like and where you a person following Jesus preior
to or after? Or who do you follow?
Did you see Jesus during your trip?

Talk about how You got there what the experiance was like along with your
suggestions for a Ibogaine candidate, as well as what you have done for
follow-up?

I do not really hear of anybody here that actually has a job that they work
at?? and if so how long after stopping Methadone and or whatever where you
and or ANYBODY, Capable ,Mentally and physically to go back to work.

Biill , And May God Help Us All ( I Know He Has Already)

—-Original Message Follows—-
From: Kirk <captkirk@clear.net.nz>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Kirk!
Date: Tue, 11 Apr 2006 09:56:06 +1200
MIME-Version: 1.0
Received: from tomts3-srv.bellnexxia.net ([209.226.175.115]) by
bay0-pamc1-f11.bay0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Mon,
10 Apr 2006 14:57:27 -0700
Received: from toip3.bellnexxia.net ([209.226.175.86])          by
tomts3-srv.bellnexxia.net          (InterMail vM.5.01.06.13
201-253-122-130-113-20050324) with ESMTP          id
<20060410215832.BESO19199.tomts3-srv.bellnexxia.net@toip3.bellnexxia.net>

for <billjohnson6@sympatico.ca>; Mon, 10 Apr 2006 17:58:32 -0400
Received: from tanelorn.mindvox.com (HELO mail.mindvox.com)
([64.124.179.118])  by toip3.bellnexxia.net with ESMTP; 10 Apr 2006 17:57:16

-0400
Received: (qmail 10564 invoked by uid 513); 10 Apr 2006 17:57:15 -0400
Received: (qmail 10558 invoked by uid 514); 10 Apr 2006 17:57:15 -0400
X-Message-Info: moY6YVwXQ472bANwyL6c7oELEu+2nl93gltq8RW3WAA=
Mailing-List: contact ibogaine-help@mindvox.com; run by ezmlm
Precedence: bulk
X-No-Archive: yes
List-Post: <mailto:ibogaine@mindvox.com>
List-Help: <mailto:ibogaine-help@mindvox.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:ibogaine-unsubscribe@mindvox.com>
List-Subscribe: <mailto:ibogaine-subscribe@mindvox.com>
Delivered-To: mailing list ibogaine@mindvox.com
X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.4 required=4.0
X-Antivirus-MYDOMAIN-Mail-From: captkirk@clear.net.nz via
tanelorn.mindvox.com
X-Antivirus-MYDOMAIN: 1.25-st-qms (Clear:RC:0(203.97.37.27):SA:0(-2.4/4.0):.

Processed in 6.495163 secs Process 10550)
X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.6353
Thread-index: AcZc54erLU+mI2KZQQ+ColcuGzVO0gAAXQJg
Return-Path: ibogaine-return-23504-billjohnson6=sympatico.ca@mindvox.com
X-OriginalArrivalTime: 10 Apr 2006 21:57:27.0687 (UTC)
FILETIME=[C1E65170:01C65CE9]

Thinking he who rants loudest and rudest could be the one who has lost the
plot.
Why are you attacking people so rudely on this list for them having an
opinion that differs from yours?
Think you need to question why that is.
Debate is cool, but you’re just being rude and not allowing for any other
opinion bar your own tunnel visioned one.
I hope YOU get to see the full picture one day.
In the meantime, I wish you well.
Kirk

—–Original Message—–
From: Paul Brookshaw [mailto:jiggy9@hotmail.co.uk]
Sent: Tuesday, 11 April 2006 9:23 a.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Kirk!

Hello Kirk,
I think what yoiu just said is crap. Pure egotistical rubbish.
Methadone lol
Let me tell you where i have just come from. OK
For the last 6 years I had been taking, 80mg of Methadone +, half a gram of
Scag, 600mg of Dihydracodine. 40mg of Certraline, 150mg of Valium, plus
little tickles in between of Moggys and Tamazapam. A bottle of vodka, plus 4

special brews. 3000mg of Gabapentin, 15 grms of weed, plus tobacco, and now
i am clean.
What do you mean by Methadone eh?
I took Iboga to stop myself from self anialation. You took it cos you whee
to masculine.
Get a life.
Seriously. You both deserve one another.
You’ve lost the plot completely.
Another one bites the dust. lolol>’~+

Blessings be with you and may you see fully one day. lolol
That is why I seem to moke OK?
Get it sorted.

Bless you Paul:)’

_________________________________________________________________
Are you using the latest version of MSN Messenger? Download MSN Messenger
7.5 today! http://join.msn.com/messenger/overview

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html
[%]

\]=———————————————————————=[/


No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.385 / Virus Database: 268.4.0/306 – Release Date: 04/09/2006


No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.385 / Virus Database: 268.4.0/306 – Release Date: 04/09/2006

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html
[%]

\]=———————————————————————=[/

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html
[%]

\]=———————————————————————=[/


No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.385 / Virus Database: 268.4.1/307 – Release Date: 04/10/2006


No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.385 / Virus Database: 268.4.1/307 – Release Date: 04/10/2006

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] OT, NEVER get choked in a Southern restuarant
Date: April 11, 2006 at 11:09:39 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

> >
> >
> > Never Choke in a Southern  Restaurant
> > Two hillbillies Ed and  Red walk into a bar. While having a shot of whiskey,
> > they talk
> > about their  moonshine operation.  Suddenly, a woman at a nearby table, who
> > is
> > eating a sandwich, begins  to cough.  After a minute or so, it becomes
> > apparent that
> > she is in  real   distress.
> >
> > One of the hillbillies  looks at her and says, “Kin ya swallar?”
> > The woman shakes her head  no. “Kin ya breathe?”
> > The woman begins to turn  blue and shakes her head no.
> > The hillbilly walks over  to the woman, lifts up the back of her dress, yanks
> > down her drawers and  quickly gives her right butt cheek a lick with his
> > tongue.  The woman is so shocked that she has a violent spasm and  the
> > obstruction flies out of her mouth. As she begins to breathe again, the
> > hillbilly
> > walks  slowly back to the  bar.  His  partner says, “Ya know, I’d heerd of
> > that
> > there ‘Hind Lick  Maneuver’, but I ain’t never seed nobody do it!”
> >
> > Pass this on to everyone  that you think needs a good chuckle!!

From: <slowone@hush.ai>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] (Sorta WAY OT!- semi-nuddie pics) Fw: slipper pix
Date: April 11, 2006 at 10:31:08 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

This filled my mailbox.. sigh.

On Sun, 02 Apr 2006 07:46:16 -0700 Preston Peet <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
wrote:
HI all,
Just thought I’d share the photos below. Hopefully they won’t
clog up people’s boxes, and if they do I humbly apologize.
But I thought I’d share how I spend most weekends. These were
taken Friday night while I was dj’ing Hot Box, the Slipper Room’s
Friday night burlesque extravaganza, and unfortunately these
photos don’t do the humor and talent credit. Still, some of these
are quite good. (V dj’s every other Saturday now, for Mr. Choad’s
Upstairs/Downstairs burlesque show, instead of each Saturday as
she did for the last 3 years or so- and she isn’t in any of these
shots, not being a dancer, even though she could probably clean up

doing so.)
;-))
Anyway, hope everyone is having a good Sunday and not overtaxing
themselves with worry, stress or the absolute weirdness about how
some folk seem to think “abusive” language and behavior and
“therapeutic” can, logically, fit together in any sane, rational
treatment of addicts and drug abusers.
BTW, the girl with the tattoos (Peekaboo Point) is my pilates
trainer.
And, though it isn’t obvious from the one photo of me in here,
just to tie this in in a wee manner to the topic at hand, I am
seriously baked to the gills during this particular evening’s
event, so baked in fact that I had the most overwhelming headrush
I’ve ever had on Friday night, at least since the first summer I
ever smoked pot. After having taken a huge hit of the BEST EVER
Strawberry Cough while crouched down behind the turntables out of
sight of the packed house, I then stood up and whoa! Head Rush! I
almost fell over and did in fact accidentally hit the fade switch
during said blinding rush, and conked out the music for a few
second because I couldn’t see anything nor could I hear through
the high-pitched keening sound in my ears from the blood rushing
(into? Out of?) my ears. When it first started, I thought for a
second that the cd was screwing up or something and reached for
the machine to do some finagling, only to find myself struck blind

and deaf by the headrush. What causes this? Does anyone know the
science behind this phenomenon, what causes a headrush I mean?
Anyway, enjoy the photos.
—–
“If God dropped acid, would he see people?”  ~Steven Wright

Peace, love and lotsof respect.
Preston Peet
ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor Underground- the Disinformation Guide to Ancient
Civilizations, Astonishing Archaeology and Hidden History
Editor Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Columnist HighTimes mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —–
From: ABuckit@aol.com
To:
Cc: ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Sent: Saturday, April 01, 2006 5:34 PM
Subject: Re: slipper pix

Allo D.T.

From last night.

If you would be most kind and pass these pictures onto the others,

as I don’t have their emails. I have many more, these are a quick
selection.
Also, Miss D.T., Are you getting my emails? You are on the list.
Again, a treat to see you last night, Much love

Adrian

Concerned about your privacy? Instantly send FREE secure email, no account required
http://www.hushmail.com/send?l=480

Get the best prices on SSL certificates from Hushmail
https://www.hushssl.com?l=485

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: Kirk <captkirk@clear.net.nz>
Subject: [Ibogaine] lmao
Date: April 11, 2006 at 4:50:01 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Thanks again Paul
Best laugh I have had today!!!
xxxx

—–Original Message—–
From: Paul Brookshaw [mailto:jiggy9@hotmail.co.uk]
Sent: Tuesday, 11 April 2006 6:27 p.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] Kirsty!

Hello Kirsty,
I forgot to mention that, I dropped the said afore mentioned
in just under 4 months, so how the hell can you say, people should take it
easy. Your own fear crawls all over what you write. Perhaps you have never
really had a problem with Opiates and other hard substances at all, just
like to act the part to get attention. The truth hurts babe, but it will set

you free. Free indeed. lolol
Sorry for the slap, but you are so full of ponnie like a lot of people, even

after taking Iboga, you are still blinded. SAD.
I pray this day you find the true you and
then let yourself free
from the prison you have created
for yourself.
Have a good day now!!!’
Bless you Paul:)~’

Strenght, Power and Honour shall lead you to Respect yourself, and not play
with the life you where given freely. Grace darling you forget Grace!!!

_________________________________________________________________
Are you using the latest version of MSN Messenger? Download MSN Messenger
7.5 today! http://join.msn.com/messenger/overview

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html
[%]

\]=———————————————————————=[/


No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.385 / Virus Database: 268.4.1/307 – Release Date: 04/10/2006


No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.385 / Virus Database: 268.4.1/308 – Release Date: 04/11/2006

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: Kirk <captkirk@clear.net.nz>
Subject: [Ibogaine] re:callie
Date: April 11, 2006 at 4:47:44 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hey Callie,
Yes I;’m very happy, on some level that I haven’t felt before.  If you could see what’s happening here you’d have to wonder how that is lol.
No I haven’t replaced the drugs with anything…… not that I am aware of, it’s just like I don’t take them anymore, end of story.  Got my eye warily on the three month mark but have good support network if things get a bit hairy then.
Energy is still returning, and I’m ready for bed by about 8:30 pm and sleep is still a bit broken but it’s not driving me too crazy.
Arrghhh what’s driving me crazy is as I type there are carpenters skill sawing hammering, painters with electric sanders all around my house they been here since just after Jason left, my house is surrounded by huge metal scaffolding, the section is a mess my gardens are trampled plants are screaming out to be saved, others just gave up and died.  My car is fekked, I got lumped with two bull mastiffs while their owners are away and the interior of the house is a pig sty, and I got debt coming out my ears.
But it’s ok. I don’t know how but it is. Lol
I was only doing part time house painting work before the ibo, so looking into what to do now.  Possibly be taught how to make websites.  I’m just not sure on that one yet.  Kinda like I’m waiting for the kaos out there to go away then I can pull everything together.
Not sure lol, bit in limbo at the moment.
Stay tuned hahahaha!!
Love heaps
Kirk xx

From: CallieMimosa@aol.com [mailto:CallieMimosa@aol.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, 12 April 2006 8:32 a.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Kirk!

In a message dated 4/11/2006 2:56:23 P.M. Central Standard Time, captkirk@clear.net.nz writes:
And hey, nearly two months up for me J
My life is in kaos all around, but I’m not taking drugs lol.  That right there is a bloody miracle lol.
Chick, I am so happy for you!! I really am! Are you happy? What have you replaced the drugs with? anything?
Do you work? If so, how is the job since you are drug free?
Hell, how are you handling life without drugs? Do you have a lot of idle time? Are you smoking more cigarettes? (if you smoke!! haha!)
wtg, callie

–
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.385 / Virus Database: 268.4.1/307 – Release Date: 04/10/2006

–
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.385 / Virus Database: 268.4.1/308 – Release Date: 04/11/2006

From: Kirk <captkirk@clear.net.nz>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Just a reply,to All This?Paul
Date: April 11, 2006 at 4:39:13 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Lol Billy, the masculine/feminine comments were MINE, and as per usual I did
a bad job of explaining it….therefore they’ve been misinterpreted
misunderstood etc. If anyone has a link to help explain what I mean by
masc/fem I would be forever grateful!!!!
Ok.

—–Original Message—–
From: Billy J [mailto:billjohnson6@sympatico.ca]
Sent: Tuesday, 11 April 2006 4:29 p.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Just a reply,to All This?Paul

He Paul, whats this stuff about taking Iboga for masculinity?,Who,?
And you have taken Ibogaine and it has helped clean you Up?
What was your Experiance like and where you a person following Jesus preior
to or after? Or who do you follow?
Did you see Jesus during your trip?

Talk about how You got there what the experiance was like along with your
suggestions for a Ibogaine candidate, as well as what you have done for
follow-up?

I do not really hear of anybody here that actually has a job that they work
at?? and if so how long after stopping Methadone and or whatever where you
and or ANYBODY, Capable ,Mentally and physically to go back to work.

Biill , And May God Help Us All ( I Know He Has Already)

—-Original Message Follows—-
From: Kirk <captkirk@clear.net.nz>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Kirk!
Date: Tue, 11 Apr 2006 09:56:06 +1200
MIME-Version: 1.0
Received: from tomts3-srv.bellnexxia.net ([209.226.175.115]) by
bay0-pamc1-f11.bay0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Mon,
10 Apr 2006 14:57:27 -0700
Received: from toip3.bellnexxia.net ([209.226.175.86])          by
tomts3-srv.bellnexxia.net          (InterMail vM.5.01.06.13
201-253-122-130-113-20050324) with ESMTP          id
<20060410215832.BESO19199.tomts3-srv.bellnexxia.net@toip3.bellnexxia.net>

for <billjohnson6@sympatico.ca>; Mon, 10 Apr 2006 17:58:32 -0400
Received: from tanelorn.mindvox.com (HELO mail.mindvox.com)
([64.124.179.118])  by toip3.bellnexxia.net with ESMTP; 10 Apr 2006 17:57:16

-0400
Received: (qmail 10564 invoked by uid 513); 10 Apr 2006 17:57:15 -0400
Received: (qmail 10558 invoked by uid 514); 10 Apr 2006 17:57:15 -0400
X-Message-Info: moY6YVwXQ472bANwyL6c7oELEu+2nl93gltq8RW3WAA=
Mailing-List: contact ibogaine-help@mindvox.com; run by ezmlm
Precedence: bulk
X-No-Archive: yes
List-Post: <mailto:ibogaine@mindvox.com>
List-Help: <mailto:ibogaine-help@mindvox.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:ibogaine-unsubscribe@mindvox.com>
List-Subscribe: <mailto:ibogaine-subscribe@mindvox.com>
Delivered-To: mailing list ibogaine@mindvox.com
X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.4 required=4.0
X-Antivirus-MYDOMAIN-Mail-From: captkirk@clear.net.nz via
tanelorn.mindvox.com
X-Antivirus-MYDOMAIN: 1.25-st-qms (Clear:RC:0(203.97.37.27):SA:0(-2.4/4.0):.

Processed in 6.495163 secs Process 10550)
X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.6353
Thread-index: AcZc54erLU+mI2KZQQ+ColcuGzVO0gAAXQJg
Return-Path: ibogaine-return-23504-billjohnson6=sympatico.ca@mindvox.com
X-OriginalArrivalTime: 10 Apr 2006 21:57:27.0687 (UTC)
FILETIME=[C1E65170:01C65CE9]

Thinking he who rants loudest and rudest could be the one who has lost the
plot.
Why are you attacking people so rudely on this list for them having an
opinion that differs from yours?
Think you need to question why that is.
Debate is cool, but you’re just being rude and not allowing for any other
opinion bar your own tunnel visioned one.
I hope YOU get to see the full picture one day.
In the meantime, I wish you well.
Kirk

—–Original Message—–
From: Paul Brookshaw [mailto:jiggy9@hotmail.co.uk]
Sent: Tuesday, 11 April 2006 9:23 a.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Kirk!

Hello Kirk,
I think what yoiu just said is crap. Pure egotistical rubbish.
Methadone lol
Let me tell you where i have just come from. OK
For the last 6 years I had been taking, 80mg of Methadone +, half a gram of
Scag, 600mg of Dihydracodine. 40mg of Certraline, 150mg of Valium, plus
little tickles in between of Moggys and Tamazapam. A bottle of vodka, plus 4

special brews. 3000mg of Gabapentin, 15 grms of weed, plus tobacco, and now
i am clean.
What do you mean by Methadone eh?
I took Iboga to stop myself from self anialation. You took it cos you whee
to masculine.
Get a life.
Seriously. You both deserve one another.
You’ve lost the plot completely.
Another one bites the dust. lolol>’~+

Blessings be with you and may you see fully one day. lolol
That is why I seem to moke OK?
Get it sorted.

Bless you Paul:)’

_________________________________________________________________
Are you using the latest version of MSN Messenger? Download MSN Messenger
7.5 today! http://join.msn.com/messenger/overview

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html
[%]

\]=———————————————————————=[/


No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.385 / Virus Database: 268.4.0/306 – Release Date: 04/09/2006


No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.385 / Virus Database: 268.4.0/306 – Release Date: 04/09/2006

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html
[%]

\]=———————————————————————=[/

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html
[%]

\]=———————————————————————=[/


No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.385 / Virus Database: 268.4.1/307 – Release Date: 04/10/2006


No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.385 / Virus Database: 268.4.1/307 – Release Date: 04/10/2006

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: “Paul Brookshaw” <jiggy9@hotmail.co.uk>
Subject: [Ibogaine] Kirsty!
Date: April 11, 2006 at 2:27:02 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hello Kirsty,
I forgot to mention that, I dropped the said afore mentioned in just under 4 months, so how the hell can you say, people should take it easy. Your own fear crawls all over what you write. Perhaps you have never really had a problem with Opiates and other hard substances at all, just like to act the part to get attention. The truth hurts babe, but it will set you free. Free indeed. lolol
Sorry for the slap, but you are so full of ponnie like a lot of people, even after taking Iboga, you are still blinded. SAD.
I pray this day you find the true you and then let yourself free
from the prison you have created for yourself.
Have a good day now!!!’
Bless you Paul:)~’

Strenght, Power and Honour shall lead you to Respect yourself, and not play with the life you where given freely. Grace darling you forget Grace!!!

_________________________________________________________________
Are you using the latest version of MSN Messenger? Download MSN Messenger 7.5 today! http://join.msn.com/messenger/overview

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Kirk!
Date: April 11, 2006 at 4:31:45 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 4/11/2006 2:56:23 P.M. Central Standard Time, captkirk@clear.net.nz writes:
And hey, nearly two months up for me J
My life is in kaos all around, but I’m not taking drugs lol.  That right there is a bloody miracle lol.

Chick, I am so happy for you!! I really am! Are you happy? What have you replaced the drugs with? anything?
Do you work? If so, how is the job since you are drug free?
Hell, how are you handling life without drugs? Do you have a lot of idle time? Are you smoking more cigarettes? (if you smoke!! haha!)
wtg, callie

From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Reasons for Anger.
Date: April 11, 2006 at 4:19:43 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 4/11/2006 2:44:44 P.M. Central Standard Time, jon@mindvox.com writes:
walked up the Mountain, and
> when
> I reached the
>
> top. I said, GOD IF IT IS MY TIME TO GO I WILL SEE YOU IN A MINUTE MATE.
> And
> then I jumped
>
> off, knowing full well that out of blind Faith, GOD would catch me.

What mountain did you jump off Jiggy?

Three little tips for a content and happy life.
> Find someone to LOVE (yourself fist) Have and allow someone to LOVE
> you(GOD)
> and find
>
> something to do. Earn your money so as you have all that you require.
> Simple
> really.

It does sound simple but we know it isn’t. For one thing, I have trouble turning my mind off. I have trouble leaving the problems at home.
You gotta like your job too and right now I do not like mine worth a damn!
I should get out and find myself a different job but that is not easy when everyone has started doing background checks.
I am not a serial killer but I do have several shoplifting charges, a couple counts of forging prescriptions and four possession of controlled substance charges. Nothing really bad but bad enough to keep me from being hired at even cleaning jobs!! They have told me in the past that if something come up missing and the client or employer wants the employee backgrounds checked, they could be liable even if I were completely innocent because of the petty theft (shoplifting) charges.
Excuses, maybe but really I don’t think so.
So, I have been trying very hard to just be happy and grateful of the job I have but it is difficult when you aren’t enjoying yourself at all!

Damn, life can be a bummer, can’t it? That is why I love my opiates so fucking much! I have this fear in me that I will never be totally happy and will die with many regrets.
bumming out,
Callie

From: “Billy J” <billjohnson6@sympatico.ca>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Just a reply,to All This?Paul
Date: April 11, 2006 at 12:29:12 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

He Paul, whats this stuff about taking Iboga for masculinity?,Who,?
And you have taken Ibogaine and it has helped clean you Up?
What was your Experiance like and where you a person following Jesus preior to or after? Or who do you follow?
Did you see Jesus during your trip?

Talk about how You got there what the experiance was like along with your suggestions for a Ibogaine candidate, as well as what you have done for follow-up?

I do not really hear of anybody here that actually has a job that they work at?? and if so how long after stopping Methadone and or whatever where you and or ANYBODY, Capable ,Mentally and physically to go back to work.

Biill , And May God Help Us All ( I Know He Has Already)

—-Original Message Follows—-
From: Kirk <captkirk@clear.net.nz>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Kirk!
Date: Tue, 11 Apr 2006 09:56:06 +1200
MIME-Version: 1.0
Received: from tomts3-srv.bellnexxia.net ([209.226.175.115]) by bay0-pamc1-f11.bay0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Mon, 10 Apr 2006 14:57:27 -0700
Received: from toip3.bellnexxia.net ([209.226.175.86])          by tomts3-srv.bellnexxia.net          (InterMail vM.5.01.06.13 201-253-122-130-113-20050324) with ESMTP          id <20060410215832.BESO19199.tomts3-srv.bellnexxia.net@toip3.bellnexxia.net>          for <billjohnson6@sympatico.ca>; Mon, 10 Apr 2006 17:58:32 -0400
Received: from tanelorn.mindvox.com (HELO mail.mindvox.com) ([64.124.179.118])  by toip3.bellnexxia.net with ESMTP; 10 Apr 2006 17:57:16 -0400
Received: (qmail 10564 invoked by uid 513); 10 Apr 2006 17:57:15 -0400
Received: (qmail 10558 invoked by uid 514); 10 Apr 2006 17:57:15 -0400
X-Message-Info: moY6YVwXQ472bANwyL6c7oELEu+2nl93gltq8RW3WAA=
Mailing-List: contact ibogaine-help@mindvox.com; run by ezmlm
Precedence: bulk
X-No-Archive: yes
List-Post: <mailto:ibogaine@mindvox.com>
List-Help: <mailto:ibogaine-help@mindvox.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:ibogaine-unsubscribe@mindvox.com>
List-Subscribe: <mailto:ibogaine-subscribe@mindvox.com>
Delivered-To: mailing list ibogaine@mindvox.com
X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.4 required=4.0
X-Antivirus-MYDOMAIN-Mail-From: captkirk@clear.net.nz via tanelorn.mindvox.com
X-Antivirus-MYDOMAIN: 1.25-st-qms (Clear:RC:0(203.97.37.27):SA:0(-2.4/4.0):. Processed in 6.495163 secs Process 10550)
X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.6353
Thread-index: AcZc54erLU+mI2KZQQ+ColcuGzVO0gAAXQJg
Return-Path: ibogaine-return-23504-billjohnson6=sympatico.ca@mindvox.com
X-OriginalArrivalTime: 10 Apr 2006 21:57:27.0687 (UTC) FILETIME=[C1E65170:01C65CE9]

Thinking he who rants loudest and rudest could be the one who has lost the
plot.
Why are you attacking people so rudely on this list for them having an
opinion that differs from yours?
Think you need to question why that is.
Debate is cool, but you’re just being rude and not allowing for any other
opinion bar your own tunnel visioned one.
I hope YOU get to see the full picture one day.
In the meantime, I wish you well.
Kirk

—–Original Message—–
From: Paul Brookshaw [mailto:jiggy9@hotmail.co.uk]
Sent: Tuesday, 11 April 2006 9:23 a.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Kirk!

Hello Kirk,
I think what yoiu just said is crap. Pure egotistical rubbish.
Methadone lol
Let me tell you where i have just come from. OK
For the last 6 years I had been taking, 80mg of Methadone +, half a gram of
Scag, 600mg of Dihydracodine. 40mg of Certraline, 150mg of Valium, plus
little tickles in between of Moggys and Tamazapam. A bottle of vodka, plus 4

special brews. 3000mg of Gabapentin, 15 grms of weed, plus tobacco, and now
i am clean.
What do you mean by Methadone eh?
I took Iboga to stop myself from self anialation. You took it cos you whee
to masculine.
Get a life.
Seriously. You both deserve one another.
You’ve lost the plot completely.
Another one bites the dust. lolol>’~+

Blessings be with you and may you see fully one day. lolol
That is why I seem to moke OK?
Get it sorted.

Bless you Paul:)’

_________________________________________________________________
Are you using the latest version of MSN Messenger? Download MSN Messenger
7.5 today! http://join.msn.com/messenger/overview

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html
[%]

\]=———————————————————————=[/


No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.385 / Virus Database: 268.4.0/306 – Release Date: 04/09/2006


No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.385 / Virus Database: 268.4.0/306 – Release Date: 04/09/2006

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: “Krista Vaughan” <krista.vaughan@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Missing emails
Date: April 11, 2006 at 3:05:33 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I don’t know, the only thing that seems to be true is what Mason (I
think?) said a few days ago, I never have any trouble on gmail either,
everything shows up and in the right order. Of course I’m sure Google
is archiving all of it forever like Vector’s repost said, but then I
don’t buy or sell drugs through email and if they want mailboxes full
of loonies ranting, good luck to Google 😉

KV

On 4/11/06, Kirk <captkirk@clear.net.nz> wrote:

What is up with the email thing?  One of mine got completely lost yesterday.
Thus the test email to see what was going on. Seems only to be the Ibogaine
list…….any consipiracy theories anyone? Lol or is Patrick asleep at the
wheel?

Luv n hugs

Kirk xx

________________________________

From: CallieMimosa@aol.com [mailto:CallieMimosa@aol.com]
Sent: Wednesday, 12 April 2006 6:18 a.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] NEW DRUG CP(OT!!)

In a message dated 4/11/2006 12:57:37 P.M. Central Standard Time,
ptpeet@nyc.rr.com writes:

It says right in the text on the first page of experiences that it’s a
“joke,” and if we read tyhe front page, it’s not put up by Vaults of
Erowid,
it’s put up by The Vaults of Meow.
So don’t lose respect for anyone Callie. It’s hilarious.

Yep Preston….I finally figured that out! It is hilarious!

You must be getting the Ibogaine e-mails in a fucked up order or something.
Mine have been fucked up too for the past week or so.

Example….you may reply to me now and I may not receive your reply until
tonight or even tomorrow, even though I am receiving other replies and posts
in the order they are sent.

Day before yesterday, I didn’t receive any Ibogaine posts until I went to
bed then woke up to 236 e-mails! Most of them Ibogaine!!

The cat piss was one of them. I somehow missed the one that said it was a
joke! Hell, I have heard of people ingesting all kinds of shit to hopefully
get the ‘ultimate trip’, so I figured cat piss was just as one more thing
some fucked up addict had tried!

I did feel pretty embarrassed and silly though for thinking it was true! So,
the joke got me and I wasn’t even an intended ‘butt of the joke’.

Callie


No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.385 / Virus Database: 268.4.1/307 – Release Date: 04/10/2006


No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.385 / Virus Database: 268.4.1/307 – Release Date: 04/10/2006

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: Crooked Eye <iboganaut420@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Quest. to Dana: hermaline- Shah initiation
Date: April 10, 2006 at 9:11:40 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

actually, I reread what was said, and I know of passionflower as well that contains MAOI’s, so maybe it’s one of those or something similar…  poor reading, sorry..  :p

Crooked Eye <iboganaut420@yahoo.com> wrote:
the vine of the dead/soul for ayahausca is rich in harmala alkaloids, and is known as Banesteriopsis Caapi, but I believe you are speaking of Syrian Rue aka Peganum Harmala seeds, which are very high in harmala alkaloids..  Both provide MAO Inhibition, for aya brews and are said to have benefits by themselves…

pascall roland <pascal-roland@hotmail.com> wrote:
Dear Dana,

if not wrong hermaline can be extracted from a plant known in Persian as
Esfand and til day used here by many people to purify & protect themsleves
and their environment ( Esfand as a dried plant is used as incense ). Every
home keeps some Esfand to perform purification when necessary.

Question: where did you learn that the Persian Shah used hermaline for the
initiation? Which Shah and what kind of initiation?

thks/rgds

  1. Roland

>From: HSLotsof@aol.com
>Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
>To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
>Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Fwd: Gospel of Judas
>Date: Sun, 9 Apr 2006 14:00:31 EDT
>
>Dana,
>
>Just curious as to the language of your attached
>gospel_of_judas_iscariot.pdf
>as it breaks down the narrative into “scenes.” Is that language customary?
>
>Howard
>
>In a message dated 4/8/06 4:24:39 PM, dana@phantom.com writes:
>
> >
> > New gnostic gospel supports passover plot account, thereby buttressing
>the
> > role of Grail contents with neuro-protective properties as a forensic
> > explanation of what happened in the crucifixion and resurrection.
> >
> > I now believe that ibogaine may actually have been one of the
>ingredients in
> > the Grail mixture– because it makes the body  totally numb and able to
>take
> > being pierced without pain or flinching, and because it’s been patented
>for
> > ischemia, which is a kind of global stroke effect brought on during
> > Crucifixion by gradual suffocation caused by the windpipe being cut off
>when the
> > crucified would lean forward trying to rest. Other ingredients would
>have been
> > some harmaline and possibly cannabis, but not ephedra, which would be
> > unnecessary with the iboga.
> >
> > If Egyptian mummies have been found with traces of cocaine and nicotine
> > (from the Americas), they couldn’t have had that much trouble getting a
>bit of
> > root-bark from the sub-Sahara. Iboga originates with the Pygmy, who
>supposedly
> > had it before anyone else. Somewhere I heard or read (and maybe some
>one on
> > the list can provide the citation.) that the Pygmy first had it in the
>Rift
> > Valley, 20,000 years ago.
> >
> > So the theory is that harmaline was involved in the initiation of the
> > Persian Shah, iboga in the ordination of the Pharaoh. Christ claimed the
>mantel of
> > both, of course.
> >
> > Dana/cnw
> >
> >
> > Begin forwarded message:
> >
> >
> > From: “William T. Brennan”
> > Date: April 6, 2006 10:40:49 PM EDT
> > To: dana@phantom.com
> > Subject: Gospel of Judas
> >
> > Hi Dana,
> >
> > I hope all’s been well this week.
> >
> > You may have heard by now, but the Gospel of Judas has recently
>surfaced.
> > I’ve copied the NYT story below and have attached a translation of the
> > gospel.  The unquestionably gnostic thread running through it seems
>like it’s right
> > up your alley.
> >
> > Predictably, I’ve combed through it looking for potential mushroom
> > references that line up with other more obvious gnostic mushroom
>references (Heinrich,
> > 2002) and feel like I’ve found a few.  Here they are with some notes:
> >
> >
> >
> > “Often he did not appear to his disciples as himself, but he was found
>among
> > them as a child.”
> >
> >
> >
> > I would love to find out what Greek term was used for “child,” and
>to get
> > into its etymology.  I’m pretty sure that it’s in Greek mythology
>(note that
> > this gospel was originally written in Greek) that mushrooms are often
> > referred to in childish terms (e.g., the “little ones”).  This line
>is especially
> > suspect since the rest of the passage makes no reference to Jesus as a
>child.
> >
> >
> >
> > One day he was with his disciples in Judea, and he found them gathered
> > together and seated in pious observance. When he [approached] his
>disciples, [34]
> > gathered >>together and seated and offering a prayer of thanksgiving
>over the
> > bread, [he] laughed.
> > The disciples said to [him], “Master, why are you laughing at [our]
>prayer
> > of
> > thanksgiving? We have done what is right.”
> > He answered and said to them, “I am not laughing at you. are not
>doing
> > this because of your own will but because it is through this that your
>god
> > [will be] praised.”
> > They said, “Master, you are […] the son of our god.”
> > Jesus said to them, “How do you know me? Truly [I] say to you, no
>generation
> > of the people that are among you will know me.”
> > …
> > “When Jesus observed their lack of [understanding, he said] to them,
>“Why
> > has this agitation led you to anger? Your god who is within you and
>[…]”
> > …
> > “Knowing that Judas was reflecting upon something that was exalted,
>Jesus
> > said to him,
> > “Step away from the others and I shall tell you the mysteries of the
>kingdom.
> > ”
> >
> >
> >
> > Jesus seems to be mocking their “bread eating” ritual by noting that
>it’s
> > putting them in touch with a different god.  Judas, on the other hand,
>gets
> > favored and enters into “conversation” with Jesus because only he
>rightfully
> > identifies him.  As you know, different species of Amanitas look pretty
> > similar, and even when you find the right (psychoactive) one, they’re
>notoriously
> > hard to get a psychedelic trip out of.  Maybe this difficulty is
>what’s
> > contributing to their “praising of another god.”
> >
> >
> >
> > “A great angel, the enlightened divine Self-Generated, emerged from
>the
> > cloud.”
> >
> >
> >
> > Self-generated?  From the cloud?  Self-generation is unavoidable for a
> > Creator god, but this “great angel” was brought into being by a
>greater power.
> > Why would the text run the risk of coming across as self-contradictory
>by
> > dubbing him/her/it “self-created?”  This odd, quasi-incorrect
>description of the
> > angel sounds like a traditional mythic mushroom reference to me (i.e.,
>no
> > visible seed, springing up in the wake of clouds).
> >
> >
> >
> > I’m skeptical myself, but it’s worth thinking about.  In other news,
>the
> > postering is going really well on Long Island, and I’ll be getting
>started on
> > the NYU campus area soon as well (assuming no one else has hit it
>yet).  I’ve
> > got some more things to talk about, both related to the march and the
>Ibogaine
> > book, so I’ll talk to you soon.
> >
> > -Bill
> >
> > Here’s the NYT story:
> >
> > April 6, 2006
> > ‘Gospel of Judas’ Surfaces After 1,700 Years
> > By JOHN NOBLE WILFORD and LAURIE GOODSTEIN
> >
> > An early Christian manuscript, including the only known text of what
> > is known as the Gospel of Judas, has surfaced after 1,700 years. The
> > text gives new insights into the relationship of Jesus and the
> > disciple who betrayed him, scholars reported today. In this version,
> > Jesus asked Judas, as a close friend, to sell him out to the
> > authorities, telling Judas he will “exceed” the other disciples by
> > doing so.
> >
> > Though some theologians have hypothesized this, scholars who have
> > studied the new-found text said, this is the first time an ancient
> > document defends the idea.
> >
> > The discovery in the desert of Egypt of the leather-bound papyrus
> > manuscript, and now its translation, was announced by the National
> > Geographic Society at a news conference in Washington. The 26-page
> > Judas text is said to be a copy in Coptic, made around A. D. 300, of
> > the original Gospel of Judas, written in Greek the century before.
> >
> > Terry Garcia, an executive vice president of the geographic society,
> > said the manuscript, or codex, is considered by scholars and
> > scientists to be the most significant ancient, nonbiblical text to be
> > found in the past 60 years.
> >
> > “The codex has been authenticated as a genuine work of ancient
> > Christian apocryphal literature,” Mr. Garcia said, citing extensive
> > tests of radiocarbon dating, ink analysis and multispectral imaging
> > and studies of the script and linguistic style. The ink, for example,
> > was consistent with ink of that era, and there was no evidence of
> > multiple rewriting.
> >
> > “This is absolutely typical of ancient Coptic manuscripts,” said
> > Stephen Emmel, professor of Coptic studies at the University of
> > Munster in Germany. “I am completely convinced.”
> >
> > The most revealing passages in the Judas manuscript begins, “The
> > secret account of the revelation that Jesus spoke in conversation
> > with Judas Iscariot during a week, three days before he celebrated
> > Passover.”
> >
> > The account goes on to relate that Jesus refers to the other
> > disciples, telling Judas “you will exceed all of them. For you will
> > sacrifice the man that clothes me.” By that, scholars familiar with
> > Gnostic thinking said, Jesus meant that by helping him get rid of his
> > physical flesh, Judas will act to liberate the true spiritual self or
> > divine being within Jesus.
> >
> > Unlike the accounts in the New Testament Gospels of Matthew, Mark,
> > Luke and John, the anonymous author of the Gospel of Judas believed
> > that Judas Iscariot alone among the 12 disciples understood the
> > meaning of Jesus’ teachings and acceded to his will. In the diversity
> > of early Christian thought, a group known as Gnostics believed in a
> > secret knowledge of how people could escape the prisons of their
> > material bodies and return to the spiritual realm from which they came.
> >
> > Elaine Pagels, a professor of religion at Princeton who specializes
> > in studies of the Gnostics, said in a statement, “These discoveries
> > are exploding the myth of a monolithic religion, and demonstrating
> > how diverse — and fascinating — the early Christian movement
>really
> > was.”
> >
> > The Gospel of Judas is only one of many texts discovered in the last
> > 65 years, including the gospels of Thomas, Mary Magdalene and Philip,
> > believed to be written by Gnostics.
> >
> > The Gnostics’ beliefs were often viewed by bishops and early church
> > leaders as unorthodox, and they were frequently denounced as
> > heretics. The discoveries of Gnostic texts have shaken up Biblical
> > scholarship by revealing the diversity of beliefs and practices among
> > early followers of Jesus.
> >
> > As the findings have trickled down to churches and universities, they
> > have produced a new generation of Christians who now regard the Bible
> > not as the literal word of God, but as a product of historical and
> > political forces that determined which texts should be included in
> > the canon, and which edited out.
> >
> > For that reason, the discoveries have proved deeply troubling for
> > many believers. The Gospel of Judas portrays Judas Iscariot not as a
> > betrayer of Jesus, but as his most favored disciple and willing
> > collaborator.
> >
> > Scholars say that they have long been on the lookout for the Gospel
> > of Judas because of a reference to what was probably an early version
> > of it in a text called Against Heresies, written by Irenaeus, the
> > bishop of Lyons, about the year 180.
> >
> > Irenaeus was a hunter of heretics, and no friend of the Gnostics. He
> > wrote, “They produce a fictitious history of this kind, which they
> > style the Gospel of Judas.”
> >
> > Karen L. King, a professor of the history of early Christianity at
> > Harvard Divinity School, and an expert in Gnosticism who has not yet
> > read the manuscript released today, said that the Gospel of Judas may
> > well reflect the kinds of debates that arose in the second and third
> > century among Christians.
> >
> > “You can see how early Christians could say, if Jesus’s death was all
> > part of God’s plan, then Judas’s betrayal was part of God’s plan,”
> > said Ms. King, the author of several books on the Gospel of Mary. “So
> > what does that make Judas? Is he the betrayer, or the facilitator of
> > salvation, the guy who makes the crucifixion possible?”
> >
> > At least one scholar said the new manuscript does not contain
> > anything dramatic that would change or undermine traditional
> > understanding of the Bible. James M. Robinson, a retired professor of
> > Coptic studies at Claremont Graduate University, was the general
> > editor of the English edition of the Nag Hammadi library, a
> > collection of Gnostic documents discovered in Egypt in 1945.
> >
> > “Correctly understood, there’s nothing undermining about the Gospel
> > of Judas,” Mr. Robinson said in a telephone interview. He said that
> > the New Testament gospels of John and Mark both contain passages that
> > suggest that Jesus not only picked Judas to betray him, but actually
> > encouraged Judas to hand him over to those he knew would crucify him.
> >
> > Mr. Robinson’s book, “The Secrets of Judas: The Story of the
> > Misunderstood Disciple and his Lost Gospel” (Harper San Francisco,
> > April 2006), predicts the contents of the Gospel of Judas based on
> > his knowledge of Gnostic and Coptic texts, even though he was not
> > part of the team of researchers working on the document.
> >
> > The Egyptian copy of the gospel was written on 13 sheets of papyrus,
> > both front and back, and found in a multitude of brittle fragments.
> >
> > Rudolphe Kasser, a Swiss scholar of Coptic studies, directed the team
> > that reconstructed and translated the script. The effort, organized
> > by the National Geographic, was supported by Maecenas Foundation for
> > Ancient Art, in Basel, Switzerland, and the Waitt Institute for
> > Historical Discovery, an American nonprofit organization for the
> > application of technology in historical and scientific projects.
> >
> > The entire 66-page codex also contains a text titled James (also
> > known as First Apocalypse of James), a letter by Peter and a text of
> > what scholars are provisionally calling Book of Allogenes.
> >
> > Discovered in the 1970’s in a cavern near El Minya, Egypt, the
> > document circulated for years among antiquities dealers in Egypt,
> > then Europe and finally in the United States. It moldered in a safe-
> > deposit box at a bank in Hicksville, N. Y., for 16 years before being
> > bought in 2000 by a Zurich dealer, Frieda Nussberger-Tchacos. The
> > manuscript was given the name Codex Tchacos.
> >
> > When attempts to resell the codex failed, Ms. Nussberger-Tchacos
> > turned it over to the Maecenas Foundation for conservation and
> > translation.
> >
> > Mr. Robinson said that an Egyptian antiquities dealer offered to sell
> > him the document in 1983 for $3 million, but that he could not raise
> > the money. He criticized the scholars now associated with the
> > project, some of whom are his former students, because he said they
> > violated an agreement made years ago by Coptic scholars that new
> > discoveries should be made accessible to all qualified scholars.
> >
> > The manuscript will ultimately be returned to Egypt, where it was
> > discovered, and housed in the Coptic Museum in Cairo.
> >
> > Ted Waitt, the founder and former chief executive of Gateway, said
> > that his foundation, the Waitt Institute for Historical Discovery,
> > gave the National Geographic Society a grant of more than $1 million
> > to restore and preserve the manuscript and make it available to the
> > public.
> >
> > ” I didn’t know a whole lot until I got into this about the early
> > days of Christianity. It was just extremely fascinating to me,” Mr.
> > Waitt said in a telephone interview. He said he had no motivation
> > other than being fascinated by the finding. He said that after the
> > document was carbon dated and the ink tested, procedures his
> > foundation paid for, he had no question about its authenticity. “You
> > can potentially question the translation and the interpretation, he
> > said, but you can’t fake something like this. It would be impossible.”
> >
> >
> >
> >
>

_________________________________________________________________
Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today it’s FREE!
http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. Make PC-to-Phone Calls to the US (and 30+ countries) for 2�/min or less.

Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. PC-to-Phone calls for ridiculously low rates.

From: Kirk <captkirk@clear.net.nz>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Kirk!
Date: April 11, 2006 at 3:49:49 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Yes Callie, yes it is ;o)
And hey, nearly two months up for me J
My life is in kaos all around, but I’m not taking drugs lol.  That right there is a bloody miracle lol.
xx
From: CallieMimosa@aol.com [mailto:CallieMimosa@aol.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, 12 April 2006 7:38 a.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Kirk!

In a message dated 4/11/2006 2:28:07 P.M. Central Standard Time, captkirk@clear.net.nz writes:
Actually, Paul, thanks to you, I temporarily lost my sense of humor.  Thanks
to recent postings from you, it hath returned in all it’s glory ;o)
Good ole ego ay!! It does it’s job so well!!!!
hahahaha!! We are ALL here for a reason…..or two!! Isn’t it nice to be able to see that?
hugs to all, Callie

–
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.385 / Virus Database: 268.4.1/307 – Release Date: 04/10/2006

–
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.385 / Virus Database: 268.4.1/307 – Release Date: 04/10/2006

From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Kirk!
Date: April 11, 2006 at 3:37:42 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 4/11/2006 2:28:07 P.M. Central Standard Time, captkirk@clear.net.nz writes:
Actually, Paul, thanks to you, I temporarily lost my sense of humor.  Thanks
to recent postings from you, it hath returned in all it’s glory ;o)
Good ole ego ay!! It does it’s job so well!!!!

hahahaha!! We are ALL here for a reason…..or two!! Isn’t it nice to be able to see that?
hugs to all, Callie

From: jon@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Reasons for Anger.
Date: April 11, 2006 at 3:42:45 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I am not going to copy and paste your entire post Jiggy. Your words in the
post are taken from the Bible, the book of Mathew, chapter 10…one of my
favorite chapters in the book of Matthew.
But Jiggy, why do you quote the Bible to us? We can all read!
Talk…..share your thoughts, not the thoughts of John the Baptist, Paul,
Jesus, Wayne Dyer, Stephen King……..I would like to hear from Jiggy.

ahahaha. oh, i see… so Matthew was a coke-head?

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: jon@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Reasons for Anger.
Date: April 11, 2006 at 3:41:12 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

so… ummm… sheerly out of curiousity, what drug were you on when you
wrote this?

my guess would be cocaine. am i right?

Hello my Brothers and Sisters,
Some of you cannot handle the truth, so all I
can do this day

is give you some words of Wisdom, Recorded, but not proved, but definitely
a
Spiritual

Walk.

Little book, eat, digest, move create, whip the winds. lolol

Locca’Rappea’

Provide neither gold, nor silver, nor brass in you purses, Nor
scrip(Script
lolol Sorcery)

for your Journey, neither two coats, neither shoes, nor yet Staves, for
the
workmen is

worthy of his meat.

So I am angry yes? The little passage above puts the whole into
perspective.

Why harry so, with the worries of this world, when your Father in Heaven
has
already got it

all sorted for you.

And into whatsoever city ye shall enter, enquire who is worthy; and there
abide till ye go

thence.
And when ye come into a house, Salute it.

For it is a most beautiful work of the hand of Man and should be respected
as you should

respect your body. You make attempts each day to tidy and clean your
domain.
But you forget

that the Temple of you Spirit is your body. The saying, Cleanliness is
next
to Godliness,

counts to your body and not your Domain. Worldly Goods , corrupt the mind
and blind the

Spirit from the truth. You cannot eat your house or your car or your wife,
or your kids.
You cannot take them with you when you die, so why try and control, what
you
have when God

gave it to you freely. If you ask for nothing, God shall give you what you
require.

My Anger on this list is only justified, by the outlandish stupidity i see
before me.
Excuses.
Two words that, Junkies and addicts hate!lolol
GIVE UP!!!
Why do you need the crutch, when your legs work perfectly well in the
first
place:)
I had to reach complete Spiritual Death, just to kill my stupid head and
pride and pray

daily that GOD would brake my heart and rebuild me as I was born.
Out of Obedience to my body and my Spirit, God has seen fit to give me
back
my state of mind

and allow me to live my life to the full. I walked up the Mountain, and
when
I reached the

top. I said, GOD IF IT IS MY TIME TO GO I WILL SEE YOU IN A MINUTE MATE.
And
then I jumped

off, knowing full well that out of blind Faith, GOD would catch me. I pray
you all remember

that the Arm of the Lord is LONG. And his LOVE ENDURETH FOREVER. ETERNITY
is
very hard for

man to grasp in his heart, but logic tells us that ETERNITY is timeless.
No
Slavery, carries

no chain, no deceit, shall not ensnare.
So where is your blind Faith.
The payer is a simple one.
Serenity. GOD GRANT ME THE SERENITY TO ACCEPT THE THINGS I CANNOT CHANGE,
CHANGE THE THINGS

I CAN AND THE WISDOM TO KNOW THE DIFFEENCE!!!
Keep things simple folks. FLUSH IT!!! YOU WON@T DIE EVEN IF YOU THINK YOU
REALLY ARE lolol
Thought is a head fuck. lolol
Drink the water, eat the food.
Three little tips for a content and happy life.
Find someone to LOVE (yourself fist) Have and allow someone to LOVE
you(GOD)
and find

something to do. Earn your money so as you have all that you require.
Simple
really. It only

took me 23 years to see this, plus 20 years of chaos before lolol

Now for a great and most wondrous KEY.
IF the house be worthy, let your Peace come upon it. Respect your temples.
But if the house be not worthy of respect, let your Peace return to you.
You can only help yourself if you require and do. Obedience to self.

Here is the point of my Anger.

Whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear your words, when you depart out
of
that house or

City, Shake with vemanance, the dust off your feet.
For you waste your time and effort trying to explain yourself to those
that
have already

made up there own minds, that you are wrong and have no Valour.
This is real FOOD:)

You are sent forth as Sheep in the midst of Wolves, be ye then wise as
Serpents, and as

harmless as Doves.
But beware of Men:) for they will deliver you up to the Councils and they
will Scourge you in

there Synagogues. I wonder why lolol. FEAR:) That is why;)
You shall be brought before Governors and Kings, for the sake of your
Faith,
to give a

Testimony, and prove Witness.
So my fiends. When they deliver you up, take no thought how or what ye
shall
speak: For it

shall be given you in that same hour what you shall speak.
For it shall not be you that speaks, but the Spirit of your Father that
speaks for you.
The brother shall deliver up the brother to death, and the Father the
Child;
and the

Children shall rise up against there Parents, and cause them to be put to
death.
And ye shall be Hated of all Men for the Power of your FAITH; But he that
ENDUETH TO THE END

SHALL BE SAVED.
Be thou FAITHFUL unto DEATH, and I shall give you the Crown of Life. The
Gift given freely

by GOD, for out of your own Obedience, shall you attain the light of the
World, and allow

your Spirit to shine forth without distortion and cunning deceptions.
The Disciple is not above his Master, nor the Servant above his Lord.
I pray most sincerely that, you accept that you are MEN and not GODS. For
Pride blinds the

Spirit and makes the Heart cold.
Sharpen your faces as flint unto the Lord and narrow your path so that you
only see all the

good of the Kingdom. Praise God every minute of your waking hours, for the
most wonderful

gift of life. Before retiring, praise the Lord for keeping you safe this
day
and supplying

you with all your needs. Be content with what you already have, for out of
Obedience, GOD

shall surely Bless you and Yours.
Fear then not therefore: for there is nothing covered, that shall not be
revealed; and hid

that shall not be known.
What is told in Darkness, speak ye in light: and what ye hear in the ear,
Preach thee upon

the house tops.
Fear not them that kill the body, but are not able to kill the Spirit. But
fear the Lord thy

God with trembling, for he is able to destroy the body and the Soul in
HELL!!!~’

Sure I am angry. Angry at how stupid and sick I had made myself. I am
sorry
for being so

blind, but now am most joyful, that I ain’t DEAD yet!lolol!!!
Righteous Anger is not wrong, for it edifies the body, focuses the mind
and
sets your Spirit

Free.
I pray most eagerly and with prior knowledge that if you are Obedient to
the
will of GOD. You

shall inherit the earth. All the good fruits of the field and Herb and
animal of the earth shall

be yours, for succor and savour.
Br Good people, love each other and feed upon the word for without the
light
of the Spirit

guiding, you are most definitely lost. God has many Shepherds so do not be
disheartened, as

in the dark God can bring you too the light. How about letting go of all
the
baggage and

getting, letting God do the walking and the talking for you. He is a lot
better at it than

either you or I.
Through and onto unto Glory. Step out people and move to and find the
Higher
Ground, for the

waters rise swiftly and those that do not heed the warnings of the Word
shall drown in there

own seas of Hell and rap there heads in there weeds of indecision.
Arise at the Dawn and give thanks for the Lord shall deliver you this day
and place you upon

the Beach of life. BORA BORA is a most beautiful paradise lolol.
Have a full and most wonderful day my friends and pray remember, be
servants
unto your

temples and earn RESPECT, rightfully given.
Blessings and Heart felt Love to one and
all.
Bless you Paul;^’
Strength, Power and Honour, shall lead you to respect yourself and others.
Do not make

warfare for the sake of Warfare. I pray. Make LOVE!!! EAT the FODD, Drink
the water, praise

the Lord for your life, Always Amen’
Yashaweeeeeeee’ IeeaaaaaaaaAAAAAh’
LOCCO”
Peace!!!
Shalom^’~ Booshaaaaa’, BE
GOOD, CHILDEN OF

THE REVELUTION, MARCH ON UNTO Glory lolol;)~’          POWER:)!!!’
Pray for the Strength to overcome you enemies.
REMBER WE ARE MEN OF THE JUNGLE lolololololololol  ho ho ho ho Ha ha ha!!!
Bless lol~’^
Laters, I go to wash, Pray and eat. Drink the Water:) Edify your bodies
not
your minds:)
Question? When you by a real soft piece of clothing, why does the
Manufacture, stick two

coarse, Nylon, tickets inside. One at the back of the neck, one low on the
seem on the left,

and a Logo on the front. The tickets scratch like Hell.;(
(‘!’)~~~’    ^
No fear.
Come here headless Chicken, I am Hungry!  😉

_________________________________________________________________
Are you using the latest version of MSN Messenger? Download MSN Messenger
7.5 today! http://join.msn.com/messenger/overview

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html
[%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: Kirk <captkirk@clear.net.nz>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Kirk!
Date: April 11, 2006 at 3:25:03 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Actually, Paul, thanks to you, I temporarily lost my sense of humor.  Thanks
to recent postings from you, it hath returned in all it’s glory ;o)
Good ole ego ay!! It does it’s job so well!!!!
Love light n Laughter
Koiky xxxxx

—–Original Message—–
From: Paul Brookshaw [mailto:jiggy9@hotmail.co.uk]
Sent: Tuesday, 11 April 2006 7:35 p.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Kirk!

Hello Kirsty,
At least it had the desired effect lolol
You now give me the respect I would expect to give others and not be treated

with contempt. Thankyou and Blessings be with you this day. lolol
Oh by the way, Jason, you are a man not a God. Get it sorted lolol
Strenght, Power and Honour shall lead you to respect yourself.
May the Love of God, and the Fellowship of the
Holy Spirit be with you and abide with you always, this day and for ever
more. Amen’
Heart felt Love and Blessings
Paul;)

Little and Humble.
I attack cos I see stupidity before me that is all.
Just think twice and you will be alright. Have a great day now xxx~~~’

From: Kirk <captkirk@clear.net.nz>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Kirk!
Date: Tue, 11 Apr 2006 09:56:06 +1200

Thinking he who rants loudest and rudest could be the one who has lost the
plot.
Why are you attacking people so rudely on this list for them having an
opinion that differs from yours?
Think you need to question why that is.
Debate is cool, but you’re just being rude and not allowing for any other
opinion bar your own tunnel visioned one.
I hope YOU get to see the full picture one day.
In the meantime, I wish you well.
Kirk

—–Original Message—–
From: Paul Brookshaw [mailto:jiggy9@hotmail.co.uk]
Sent: Tuesday, 11 April 2006 9:23 a.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Kirk!

Hello Kirk,
I think what yoiu just said is crap. Pure egotistical
rubbish.
Methadone lol
Let me tell you where i have just come from. OK
For the last 6 years I had been taking, 80mg of Methadone +, half a gram of
Scag, 600mg of Dihydracodine. 40mg of Certraline, 150mg of Valium, plus
little tickles in between of Moggys and Tamazapam. A bottle of vodka, plus
4

special brews. 3000mg of Gabapentin, 15 grms of weed, plus tobacco, and now
i am clean.
What do you mean by Methadone eh?
I took Iboga to stop myself from self anialation. You took it cos you whee
to masculine.
Get a life.
Seriously. You both deserve one another.
You’ve lost the plot completely.
Another one bites the dust. lolol>’~+

Blessings be with you and may you see fully one day. lolol
That is why I seem to moke OK?
Get it sorted.

Bless you Paul:)’

_________________________________________________________________
Are you using the latest version of MSN Messenger? Download MSN Messenger
7.5 today! http://join.msn.com/messenger/overview

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html
[%]

\]=———————————————————————=[/


No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.385 / Virus Database: 268.4.0/306 – Release Date: 04/09/2006


No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.385 / Virus Database: 268.4.0/306 – Release Date: 04/09/2006

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html

[%]

\]=———————————————————————=[/

_________________________________________________________________
The new MSN Search Toolbar now includes Desktop search!
http://join.msn.com/toolbar/overview

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html
[%]

\]=———————————————————————=[/


No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.385 / Virus Database: 268.4.1/307 – Release Date: 04/10/2006


No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.385 / Virus Database: 268.4.1/307 – Release Date: 04/10/2006

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: Kirk <captkirk@clear.net.nz>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] NEW DRUG CP(OT!!)
Date: April 11, 2006 at 3:15:57 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Heyyy lookie there my email was released from the dark passages of cyber
space and plonked onto the list! This shulda arrived yesterday and why has
it come in with captkirk instead of Kirk like it normally does???? That’s a
bit weird isn’t it?
What oh what is up with the net?
ck

—–Original Message—–
From: captkirk@clear.net.nz [mailto:captkirk@clear.net.nz]
Sent: Tuesday, 11 April 2006 1:39 p.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] NEW DRUG CP(OT!!)

hehhe callie you got got.  Don’t worry, I got completely
sucked in by a recent hoax email with a website called
“Bonsai Kittens”.  Pays to look around and check out snopes!
lol.
Here kitty kitty.
Love KIrk xx

—– Original Message Follows —–
LMAO!!! duh! I am such a dumbass! I see the vaults of meow
now! I am sooooo   embarassed!
lmao!
sorry folks!
Callie

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html
[%]

\]=———————————————————————=[/


No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.385 / Virus Database: 268.4.1/307 – Release Date: 04/10/2006


No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.385 / Virus Database: 268.4.1/307 – Release Date: 04/10/2006

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: captkirk <captkirk@clear.net.nz>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] NEW DRUG CP(OT!!)
Date: April 10, 2006 at 9:39:02 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

hehhe callie you got got.  Don’t worry, I got completely
sucked in by a recent hoax email with a website called
“Bonsai Kittens”.  Pays to look around and check out snopes!
lol.
Here kitty kitty.
Love KIrk xx

—– Original Message Follows —–
LMAO!!! duh! I am such a dumbass! I see the vaults of meow
now! I am sooooo   embarassed!
lmao!
sorry folks!
Callie

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: “Paul Brookshaw” <jiggy9@hotmail.co.uk>
Subject: [Ibogaine] Reasons for Anger.
Date: April 11, 2006 at 7:15:38 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hello my Brothers and Sisters,
Some of you cannot handle the truth, so all I can do this day

is give you some words of Wisdom, Recorded, but not proved, but definitely a Spiritual

Walk.

Little book, eat, digest, move create, whip the winds. lolol

Locca’Rappea’

Provide neither gold, nor silver, nor brass in you purses, Nor scrip(Script lolol Sorcery)

for your Journey, neither two coats, neither shoes, nor yet Staves, for the workmen is

worthy of his meat.

So I am angry yes? The little passage above puts the whole into perspective.

Why harry so, with the worries of this world, when your Father in Heaven has already got it

all sorted for you.

And into whatsoever city ye shall enter, enquire who is worthy; and there abide till ye go

thence.
And when ye come into a house, Salute it.

For it is a most beautiful work of the hand of Man and should be respected as you should

respect your body. You make attempts each day to tidy and clean your domain. But you forget

that the Temple of you Spirit is your body. The saying, Cleanliness is next to Godliness,

counts to your body and not your Domain. Worldly Goods , corrupt the mind and blind the

Spirit from the truth. You cannot eat your house or your car or your wife, or your kids.
You cannot take them with you when you die, so why try and control, what you have when God

gave it to you freely. If you ask for nothing, God shall give you what you require.

My Anger on this list is only justified, by the outlandish stupidity i see before me.
Excuses.
Two words that, Junkies and addicts hate!lolol
GIVE UP!!!
Why do you need the crutch, when your legs work perfectly well in the first place:)
I had to reach complete Spiritual Death, just to kill my stupid head and pride and pray

daily that GOD would brake my heart and rebuild me as I was born.
Out of Obedience to my body and my Spirit, God has seen fit to give me back my state of mind

and allow me to live my life to the full. I walked up the Mountain, and when I reached the

top. I said, GOD IF IT IS MY TIME TO GO I WILL SEE YOU IN A MINUTE MATE. And then I jumped

off, knowing full well that out of blind Faith, GOD would catch me. I pray you all remember

that the Arm of the Lord is LONG. And his LOVE ENDURETH FOREVER. ETERNITY is very hard for

man to grasp in his heart, but logic tells us that ETERNITY is timeless. No Slavery, carries

no chain, no deceit, shall not ensnare.
So where is your blind Faith.
The payer is a simple one.
Serenity. GOD GRANT ME THE SERENITY TO ACCEPT THE THINGS I CANNOT CHANGE, CHANGE THE THINGS

I CAN AND THE WISDOM TO KNOW THE DIFFEENCE!!!
Keep things simple folks. FLUSH IT!!! YOU WON@T DIE EVEN IF YOU THINK YOU REALLY ARE lolol
Thought is a head fuck. lolol
Drink the water, eat the food.
Three little tips for a content and happy life.
Find someone to LOVE (yourself fist) Have and allow someone to LOVE you(GOD) and find

something to do. Earn your money so as you have all that you require. Simple really. It only

took me 23 years to see this, plus 20 years of chaos before lolol

Now for a great and most wondrous KEY.
IF the house be worthy, let your Peace come upon it. Respect your temples.
But if the house be not worthy of respect, let your Peace return to you.
You can only help yourself if you require and do. Obedience to self.

Here is the point of my Anger.

Whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear your words, when you depart out of that house or

City, Shake with vemanance, the dust off your feet.
For you waste your time and effort trying to explain yourself to those that have already

made up there own minds, that you are wrong and have no Valour.
This is real FOOD:)

You are sent forth as Sheep in the midst of Wolves, be ye then wise as Serpents, and as

harmless as Doves.
But beware of Men:) for they will deliver you up to the Councils and they will Scourge you in

there Synagogues. I wonder why lolol. FEAR:) That is why;)
You shall be brought before Governors and Kings, for the sake of your Faith, to give a

Testimony, and prove Witness.
So my fiends. When they deliver you up, take no thought how or what ye shall speak: For it

shall be given you in that same hour what you shall speak.
For it shall not be you that speaks, but the Spirit of your Father that speaks for you.
The brother shall deliver up the brother to death, and the Father the Child; and the

Children shall rise up against there Parents, and cause them to be put to death.
And ye shall be Hated of all Men for the Power of your FAITH; But he that ENDUETH TO THE END

SHALL BE SAVED.
Be thou FAITHFUL unto DEATH, and I shall give you the Crown of Life. The Gift given freely

by GOD, for out of your own Obedience, shall you attain the light of the World, and allow

your Spirit to shine forth without distortion and cunning deceptions.
The Disciple is not above his Master, nor the Servant above his Lord.
I pray most sincerely that, you accept that you are MEN and not GODS. For Pride blinds the

Spirit and makes the Heart cold.
Sharpen your faces as flint unto the Lord and narrow your path so that you only see all the

good of the Kingdom. Praise God every minute of your waking hours, for the most wonderful

gift of life. Before retiring, praise the Lord for keeping you safe this day and supplying

you with all your needs. Be content with what you already have, for out of Obedience, GOD

shall surely Bless you and Yours.
Fear then not therefore: for there is nothing covered, that shall not be revealed; and hid

that shall not be known.
What is told in Darkness, speak ye in light: and what ye hear in the ear, Preach thee upon

the house tops.
Fear not them that kill the body, but are not able to kill the Spirit. But fear the Lord thy

God with trembling, for he is able to destroy the body and the Soul in HELL!!!~’

Sure I am angry. Angry at how stupid and sick I had made myself. I am sorry for being so

blind, but now am most joyful, that I ain’t DEAD yet!lolol!!!
Righteous Anger is not wrong, for it edifies the body, focuses the mind and sets your Spirit

Free.
I pray most eagerly and with prior knowledge that if you are Obedient to the will of GOD. You

shall inherit the earth. All the good fruits of the field and Herb and animal of the earth shall

be yours, for succor and savour.
Br Good people, love each other and feed upon the word for without the light of the Spirit

guiding, you are most definitely lost. God has many Shepherds so do not be disheartened, as

in the dark God can bring you too the light. How about letting go of all the baggage and

getting, letting God do the walking and the talking for you. He is a lot better at it than

either you or I.
Through and onto unto Glory. Step out people and move to and find the Higher Ground, for the

waters rise swiftly and those that do not heed the warnings of the Word shall drown in there

own seas of Hell and rap there heads in there weeds of indecision.
Arise at the Dawn and give thanks for the Lord shall deliver you this day and place you upon

the Beach of life. BORA BORA is a most beautiful paradise lolol.
Have a full and most wonderful day my friends and pray remember, be servants unto your

temples and earn RESPECT, rightfully given.
Blessings and Heart felt Love to one and all.
Bless you Paul;^’
Strength, Power and Honour, shall lead you to respect yourself and others. Do not make

warfare for the sake of Warfare. I pray. Make LOVE!!! EAT the FODD, Drink the water, praise

the Lord for your life, Always Amen’
Yashaweeeeeeee’ IeeaaaaaaaaAAAAAh’ LOCCO” Peace!!!
Shalom^’~ Booshaaaaa’, BE GOOD, CHILDEN OF

THE REVELUTION, MARCH ON UNTO Glory lolol;)~’          POWER:)!!!’
Pray for the Strength to overcome you enemies.
REMBER WE ARE MEN OF THE JUNGLE lolololololololol  ho ho ho ho Ha ha ha!!! Bless lol~’^
Laters, I go to wash, Pray and eat. Drink the Water:) Edify your bodies not your minds:)
Question? When you by a real soft piece of clothing, why does the Manufacture, stick two

coarse, Nylon, tickets inside. One at the back of the neck, one low on the seem on the left,

and a Logo on the front. The tickets scratch like Hell.;(              (‘!’)~~~’    ^
No fear.
Come here headless Chicken, I am Hungry!  😉

_________________________________________________________________
Are you using the latest version of MSN Messenger? Download MSN Messenger 7.5 today! http://join.msn.com/messenger/overview

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: “Krista Vaughan” <krista.vaughan@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Re: ibogaine and insanity
Date: April 11, 2006 at 2:58:24 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Before ibogaine Paul was just angry and attacked people. The emotions
in his messages before and after are identical, just that after
ibogaine he’s started to fill them up with bible verse.

Good luck Paul! Hang in there.

KV

On 4/11/06, Preston Peet <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com> wrote:
Paul is the first person I’ve seen go completely, undeniably insane from
taking ibogaine (of course, I can’t remember what Paul was posting pre-ibo,
if he was actually posting here pre-ibo, so perhaps he’s always been
completely bonkers, hard to tell).
Are there are figures anywhere compiled that show how many people may have
had such adverse results (or have just plain “gone crazy”) from taking
ibogaine?

—–
“If God dropped acid, would he see people?”  ~Steven Wright

Peace, love and lotsof respect.
Preston Peet
ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor Underground- the Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations,
Astonishing Archaeology and Hidden History
Editor Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Columnist HighTimes mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —–
From: “Paul Brookshaw” <jiggy9@hotmail.co.uk>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Tuesday, April 11, 2006 11:44 AM
Subject: [Ibogaine] Reasons for Anger.

Hello my Brothers and Sisters,
Some of you cannot handle the truth, so all I
can do this day

is give you some words of Wisdom, Recorded, but not proved, but definitely
a Spiritual

Walk.

Little book, eat, digest, move create, whip the winds. lolol

Locca’Rappea’

Provide neither gold, nor silver, nor brass in you purses, Nor
scrip(Script lolol Sorcery)

for your Journey, neither two coats, neither shoes, nor yet Staves, for
the workmen is

worthy of his meat.

So I am angry yes? The little passage above puts the whole into
perspective.

Why harry so, with the worries of this world, when your Father in Heaven
has already got it

all sorted for you.

And into whatsoever city ye shall enter, enquire who is worthy; and there
abide till ye go

thence.
And when ye come into a house, Salute it.

For it is a most beautiful work of the hand of Man and should be respected
as you should

respect your body. You make attempts each day to tidy and clean your
domain. But you forget

that the Temple of you Spirit is your body. The saying, Cleanliness is
next to Godliness,

counts to your body and not your Domain. Worldly Goods , corrupt the mind
and blind the

Spirit from the truth. You cannot eat your house or your car or your wife,
or your kids.
You cannot take them with you when you die, so why try and control, what
you have when God

gave it to you freely. If you ask for nothing, God shall give you what you
require.

My Anger on this list is only justified, by the outlandish stupidity i see
before me.
Excuses.
Two words that, Junkies and addicts hate!lolol
GIVE UP!!!
Why do you need the crutch, when your legs work perfectly well in the
first place:)
I had to reach complete Spiritual Death, just to kill my stupid head and
pride and pray

daily that GOD would brake my heart and rebuild me as I was born.
Out of Obedience to my body and my Spirit, God has seen fit to give me
back my state of mind

and allow me to live my life to the full. I walked up the Mountain, and
when I reached the

top. I said, GOD IF IT IS MY TIME TO GO I WILL SEE YOU IN A MINUTE MATE.
And then I jumped

off, knowing full well that out of blind Faith, GOD would catch me. I pray
you all remember

that the Arm of the Lord is LONG. And his LOVE ENDURETH FOREVER. ETERNITY
is very hard for

man to grasp in his heart, but logic tells us that ETERNITY is timeless.
No Slavery, carries

no chain, no deceit, shall not ensnare.
So where is your blind Faith.
The payer is a simple one.
Serenity. GOD GRANT ME THE SERENITY TO ACCEPT THE THINGS I CANNOT CHANGE,
CHANGE THE THINGS

I CAN AND THE WISDOM TO KNOW THE DIFFEENCE!!!
Keep things simple folks. FLUSH IT!!! YOU WON@T DIE EVEN IF YOU THINK YOU
REALLY ARE lolol
Thought is a head fuck. lolol
Drink the water, eat the food.
Three little tips for a content and happy life.
Find someone to LOVE (yourself fist) Have and allow someone to LOVE
you(GOD) and find

something to do. Earn your money so as you have all that you require.
Simple really. It only

took me 23 years to see this, plus 20 years of chaos before lolol

Now for a great and most wondrous KEY.
IF the house be worthy, let your Peace come upon it. Respect your temples.
But if the house be not worthy of respect, let your Peace return to you.
You can only help yourself if you require and do. Obedience to self.

Here is the point of my Anger.

Whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear your words, when you depart out
of that house or

City, Shake with vemanance, the dust off your feet.
For you waste your time and effort trying to explain yourself to those
that have already

made up there own minds, that you are wrong and have no Valour.
This is real FOOD:)

You are sent forth as Sheep in the midst of Wolves, be ye then wise as
Serpents, and as

harmless as Doves.
But beware of Men:) for they will deliver you up to the Councils and they
will Scourge you in

there Synagogues. I wonder why lolol. FEAR:) That is why;)
You shall be brought before Governors and Kings, for the sake of your
Faith, to give a

Testimony, and prove Witness.
So my fiends. When they deliver you up, take no thought how or what ye
shall speak: For it

shall be given you in that same hour what you shall speak.
For it shall not be you that speaks, but the Spirit of your Father that
speaks for you.
The brother shall deliver up the brother to death, and the Father the
Child; and the

Children shall rise up against there Parents, and cause them to be put to
death.
And ye shall be Hated of all Men for the Power of your FAITH; But he that
ENDUETH TO THE END

SHALL BE SAVED.
Be thou FAITHFUL unto DEATH, and I shall give you the Crown of Life. The
Gift given freely

by GOD, for out of your own Obedience, shall you attain the light of the
World, and allow

your Spirit to shine forth without distortion and cunning deceptions.
The Disciple is not above his Master, nor the Servant above his Lord.
I pray most sincerely that, you accept that you are MEN and not GODS. For
Pride blinds the

Spirit and makes the Heart cold.
Sharpen your faces as flint unto the Lord and narrow your path so that you
only see all the

good of the Kingdom. Praise God every minute of your waking hours, for the
most wonderful

gift of life. Before retiring, praise the Lord for keeping you safe this
day and supplying

you with all your needs. Be content with what you already have, for out of
Obedience, GOD

shall surely Bless you and Yours.
Fear then not therefore: for there is nothing covered, that shall not be
revealed; and hid

that shall not be known.
What is told in Darkness, speak ye in light: and what ye hear in the ear,
Preach thee upon

the house tops.
Fear not them that kill the body, but are not able to kill the Spirit. But
fear the Lord thy

God with trembling, for he is able to destroy the body and the Soul in
HELL!!!~’

Sure I am angry. Angry at how stupid and sick I had made myself. I am
sorry for being so

blind, but now am most joyful, that I ain’t DEAD yet!lolol!!!
Righteous Anger is not wrong, for it edifies the body, focuses the mind
and sets your Spirit

Free.
I pray most eagerly and with prior knowledge that if you are Obedient to
the will of GOD. You

shall inherit the earth. All the good fruits of the field and Herb and
animal of the earth shall

be yours, for succor and savour.
Br Good people, love each other and feed upon the word for without the
light of the Spirit

guiding, you are most definitely lost. God has many Shepherds so do not be
disheartened, as

in the dark God can bring you too the light. How about letting go of all
the baggage and

getting, letting God do the walking and the talking for you. He is a lot
better at it than

either you or I.
Through and onto unto Glory. Step out people and move to and find the
Higher Ground, for the

waters rise swiftly and those that do not heed the warnings of the Word
shall drown in there

own seas of Hell and rap there heads in there weeds of indecision.
Arise at the Dawn and give thanks for the Lord shall deliver you this day
and place you upon

the Beach of life. BORA BORA is a most beautiful paradise lolol.
Have a full and most wonderful day my friends and pray remember, be
servants unto your

temples and earn RESPECT, rightfully given.
Blessings and Heart felt Love to one and
all.
Bless you Paul;^’
Strength, Power and Honour, shall lead you to respect yourself and others.
Do not make

warfare for the sake of Warfare. I pray. Make LOVE!!! EAT the FODD, Drink
the water, praise

the Lord for your life, Always Amen’
Yashaweeeeeeee’ IeeaaaaaaaaAAAAAh’ LOCCO”
Peace!!!
Shalom^’~ Booshaaaaa’, BE
GOOD, CHILDEN OF

THE REVELUTION, MARCH ON UNTO Glory lolol;)~’          POWER:)!!!’
Pray for the Strength to overcome you enemies.
REMBER WE ARE MEN OF THE JUNGLE lolololololololol  ho ho ho ho Ha ha ha!!!
Bless lol~’^
Laters, I go to wash, Pray and eat. Drink the Water:) Edify your bodies
not your minds:)
Question? When you by a real soft piece of clothing, why does the
Manufacture, stick two

coarse, Nylon, tickets inside. One at the back of the neck, one low on the
seem on the left,

and a Logo on the front. The tickets scratch like Hell.;(
(‘!’)~~~’    ^
No fear.
Come here headless Chicken, I am Hungry!  😉

Hello my Brothers and Sisters,
Some of you cannot handle the truth, so all I
can do this day is give you some words of Wisdom, Recorrded, but not
proved, but definitaly a Spiritual Walk.

Little book,eat, digest,move create, whip the winds. lolol

Locca’Rappea’

Provide neither gold, nor silver, nor brass in you purses, Nor
scrip(Script lolol Sorcery) for your Journey, neither two coats, neither
shoes, nor yet Staves, for the workmen is worthy of his meat.

So I am angry yes? The little passage above puts the whole into
perspective.

Why harry so, with the worries of this world, when your Father in Heaven
has already got it all sorted for you.

And into whatsoever city ye shall enter, enquire who is worthy; and there
abide till ye go thence.
And when ye come into a house, Salute it.

For it is a most beautiful work of the hand of Man and should be respected
as you should resect your body. You make attempts each day to tidy and
clean your domain. But you forget that the Temple of you Spirit is your
body. The saying, Cleanliness is next to Godleness, counts to your body
and not your Domain. Wordly Goods , corrupt the mind and blind the Spirit
from the truth. You cannot eat your house or your car or your wife, or
your kids.
You cannot take them with you when you die, so why try and control, what
you have when God gave it to you freely. If you ask for nothing, God shall
give you what you require.

My Anger on this list is only justified, by the outlandish stupidity i see
befoe me.
Excuses.
Two words that, Junkies and addicts hate!lolol
GIVE UP!!!
Why do you need the crutch, when your legs work perfectly well in the
first place:)
I had to reach complete Spiritual Death, just to kill my stupid head and
pride and pray daily that GOD would brake my heart and rebuild me as I was
born.
Out of Obedience to my body and my Spirit, God has seen fit to give me
back my state of mind and allow me to live my life to the full. I walked
up the Moutain, and when I reached the top. I said, GOD IF IT IS MY TIME
TO GO I WILL SEE YOU IN A MINUTE MATE.And then I jumped off, knowing full
well that out of blind Faith, GOD would catch me. I pray you all remembe
that the Arm of the Lord is LONG. And his LOVE ENDURETH FOREVER. ETERNITY
is very hard for man to grasp in his heart, but logic tells us that
ETERNITY is timeless. No Slavery, carries no chain, no deciet, shall not
ensnare.
So where is your blind Faith.
The payer is a simple one.
Serenity. GOD GRANT ME THE SERENITY TO ACCEPT THE THINGS I CANNOT CHANGE,
CHANGE THE THINGS I CAN AND THE wISDOM TO KNOW THE DIFFEENCE!!!
Keep things simple folks. FLUSH IT!!! YOU WON@T DIE EVEN IF YOU THINK YOU
REALLY ARE lolol
Thought is a head fuck. lolol
Drink the water, eat the food.
Three little tips for a content and happy life.
Find someone to LOVE (yourself fist) Have and allow someone to LOVE
you(GOD) and find something to do. Earn your money so as you have all that
you require. Simple really. It only took me 23 years to see this, plus 20
years of chaos before lolol

Now fo a gea t and most wonderious KEY.
IF the house be worthy, let your Peace come apon it. Respect your temples.
But if the house be not wothy of respect, let your Peace return to you.
You can only help youself if you require and do. Obedience to self.

Here is the point of my Anger.

Whosoever shall not recieve you, nor hear your words, when you depart out
of that house or City, Shake with vemance the dust off your feet.
For you waste your time and effort trying to explain yourself to those
that have already made up there own minds, that you are wrong and have no
Valour.
This is real FOOD:)

You are sent forth as Sheep in the midst of Wolves, be ye then wise as
Sepents, and as harmless as Doves.
But beware of Men:) for they will delive you up to the Councils and they
will Scorge you in there Synagogues. I wonder why lolol. FEAR:) That is
why;)
You shall be brought before Goveners and Kings, for the sake of your
Faith, to give a Testomonie, and prove Witness.
So my fiends. When they deliver you up, take no thought how or what ye
shall speek: For it shall be given you in that same hour what you shall
speak.
For it shall not be you that speaks, but the Spirit of your Father that
speaks for you.
The brother shall deliver up the brother to daeth, and the Father the
Child; and the Children shall rise up against there Parents, and cause
them to be put to death.
And ye shall be Hated of all Men for the Power of your FAITH; But he that
ENDUETH TO THE END SHALL BE SAVED.
Be thou FAITHFUL untoo DEATH, and I shall give you the Crown of Life. The
Gift given feely by GOD, for out of your own Obedience, shall you attain
the light of the World, and allow your Spirit to shine forth without
distortion and cunning deceptions.
The Desciple is not above his Master, nor the Servant above his Lord.
I pray most sincerely that, you accept that you are MEN and not GODS. For
Pride blinds the Spirit and makes the Heart cold.
Sharpen your faces as flint unto the Lod and narow your path so that you
only see all the good of the Kingdom. Praise God every minute of your
waking hours, for the most wonderfull gift of life. Before retiring,
praise the Lord for keeping you safe this day and supplying you with all
your needs. Be content with what you aleady have, fo out of Obedience, GOD
shall surely Bless you and Yours.
Fear then not therefore: fo there is nothing covered, that shall not be
revealed; and hid that shall not be known.
What is told in Darkness, speek ye in light: and what ye hear in the ear,
Preach thee apon the house tops.
Fear not them that kill the body, but are not able to kill the Spirit. But
fear the Lord thy God with trembling, for he is able to destroy the body
and the Soul in HELL!!!~’

Sure I am angry. Angry at how stupid and sick I had made myself. I am
sorry for being so blind, but now am most joyful, that I ain’t DEAD
yet!lolol!!!
Rightious Anger is not wrong, for it edifies the body, focuses the mind
and sets your Spirit Free.
I pray most eagely and with fo knowledge that if you ae Obedient to the
will of GOD. You shall inheit the eath. All the good fruits of the field
and heb and animal of the eath shall be yours, for succorr and savour.
Br Good people, love each other and feed apon the wod for without the
light of the Spirit guiding, you are most deffinitaly lost. God has many
Sheppards so do not be disheartend, as in the dark God can bring you too
the light. How about letting go of all the baggage and getting, letting
God do the walking and the talking for you. He is a lot better at it than
either you or I.
Through and onto unto Glory. Step out people and move to and find the
Higher Ground, for the waters rise swiftly and those that do not heed the
warnings of the Word shall drown in there own seas of Hell and rap there
heads in there weeds of indesision.
Arise at the Dawn and give thanks fo the Lord shall deliver you this day
and place you apon the Beach of life. BORA BORA is a most beautiful
paradise lolol.
Have a full and most wonderfull day my friends and pray remeber, be
servants unto your temples and earn RESPECT, rightfully given.
Blessings and Heart felt Love to one and
all.
Bless you Paul;^’
Strenght, Power and Honour, shall lead you to respect youself and others.
Do not make warfare for the sake of Warrfare. I pray. Make LOVE!!! EAT the
FODD, Drink the water, praise the Lord for your life, Always Amen’
Yashaweeeeeeee’ IeeaaaaaaaaAAAAAh’ LOCCO”
Peace!!!
Shalom^’~ Booshaaaaa’, BE
GOOD, CHILDEN OF THE REVELUTION, MARCH ON UNTO GLOrY lolol;)~’
POWER:)!!!’
Pray for the Strenght to ovecome you enemies.
REMBER WE ARE MEN OF THE JUNGLE lolololololololol  ho ho ho ho Ha ha ha!!!
Bless lol~’^
Laters, I go to wash, Pray and eat. Drink the Water:) Edify your bodies
not your minds:)
Question? When you by a real soft piece of clothing, why does the
Manufacture, stick two coarse, Nylon, tickets inside. One at the back of
the neck, one low on the seem on the left, and a Logo on the front. The
tickets scatch like Hell.;(              (‘!’)~~~’    ^
No fear.

_________________________________________________________________
Are you using the latest version of MSN Messenger? Download MSN Messenger
7.5 today! http://join.msn.com/messenger/overview

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html
[%]

\]=———————————————————————=[/

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: Kirk <captkirk@clear.net.nz>
Subject: [Ibogaine] Missing emails
Date: April 11, 2006 at 2:56:43 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

What is up with the email thing?  One of mine got completely lost yesterday.  Thus the test email to see what was going on. Seems only to be the Ibogaine list…….any consipiracy theories anyone? Lol or is Patrick asleep at the wheel?
Luv n hugs
Kirk xx

From: CallieMimosa@aol.com [mailto:CallieMimosa@aol.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, 12 April 2006 6:18 a.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] NEW DRUG CP(OT!!)

In a message dated 4/11/2006 12:57:37 P.M. Central Standard Time, ptpeet@nyc.rr.com writes:
It says right in the text on the first page of experiences that it’s a 
”joke,” and if we read tyhe front page, it’s not put up by Vaults of Erowid, 
it’s put up by The Vaults of Meow.
So don’t lose respect for anyone Callie. It’s hilarious.
Yep Preston….I finally figured that out! It is hilarious!
You must be getting the Ibogaine e-mails in a fucked up order or something. Mine have been fucked up too for the past week or so.
Example….you may reply to me now and I may not receive your reply until tonight or even tomorrow, even though I am receiving other replies and posts in the order they are sent.
Day before yesterday, I didn’t receive any Ibogaine posts until I went to bed then woke up to 236 e-mails! Most of them Ibogaine!!
The cat piss was one of them. I somehow missed the one that said it was a joke! Hell, I have heard of people ingesting all kinds of shit to hopefully get the ‘ultimate trip’, so I figured cat piss was just as one more thing some fucked up addict had tried!
I did feel pretty embarrassed and silly though for thinking it was true! So, the joke got me and I wasn’t even an intended ‘butt of the joke’.
Callie

–
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.385 / Virus Database: 268.4.1/307 – Release Date: 04/10/2006

–
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.385 / Virus Database: 268.4.1/307 – Release Date: 04/10/2006

From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] Re: ibogaine and insanity
Date: April 11, 2006 at 12:40:09 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Paul is the first person I’ve seen go completely, undeniably insane from taking ibogaine (of course, I can’t remember what Paul was posting pre-ibo, if he was actually posting here pre-ibo, so perhaps he’s always been completely bonkers, hard to tell).
Are there are figures anywhere compiled that show how many people may have had such adverse results (or have just plain “gone crazy”) from taking ibogaine?

—–
“If God dropped acid, would he see people?”  ~Steven Wright

Peace, love and lotsof respect.
Preston Peet
ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor Underground- the Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations, Astonishing Archaeology and Hidden History
Editor Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Columnist HighTimes mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —– From: “Paul Brookshaw” <jiggy9@hotmail.co.uk>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Tuesday, April 11, 2006 11:44 AM
Subject: [Ibogaine] Reasons for Anger.

Hello my Brothers and Sisters,
Some of you cannot handle the truth, so all I can do this day

is give you some words of Wisdom, Recorded, but not proved, but definitely a Spiritual

Walk.

Little book, eat, digest, move create, whip the winds. lolol

Locca’Rappea’

Provide neither gold, nor silver, nor brass in you purses, Nor scrip(Script lolol Sorcery)

for your Journey, neither two coats, neither shoes, nor yet Staves, for the workmen is

worthy of his meat.

So I am angry yes? The little passage above puts the whole into perspective.

Why harry so, with the worries of this world, when your Father in Heaven has already got it

all sorted for you.

And into whatsoever city ye shall enter, enquire who is worthy; and there abide till ye go

thence.
And when ye come into a house, Salute it.

For it is a most beautiful work of the hand of Man and should be respected as you should

respect your body. You make attempts each day to tidy and clean your domain. But you forget

that the Temple of you Spirit is your body. The saying, Cleanliness is next to Godliness,

counts to your body and not your Domain. Worldly Goods , corrupt the mind and blind the

Spirit from the truth. You cannot eat your house or your car or your wife, or your kids.
You cannot take them with you when you die, so why try and control, what you have when God

gave it to you freely. If you ask for nothing, God shall give you what you require.

My Anger on this list is only justified, by the outlandish stupidity i see before me.
Excuses.
Two words that, Junkies and addicts hate!lolol
GIVE UP!!!
Why do you need the crutch, when your legs work perfectly well in the first place:)
I had to reach complete Spiritual Death, just to kill my stupid head and pride and pray

daily that GOD would brake my heart and rebuild me as I was born.
Out of Obedience to my body and my Spirit, God has seen fit to give me back my state of mind

and allow me to live my life to the full. I walked up the Mountain, and when I reached the

top. I said, GOD IF IT IS MY TIME TO GO I WILL SEE YOU IN A MINUTE MATE. And then I jumped

off, knowing full well that out of blind Faith, GOD would catch me. I pray you all remember

that the Arm of the Lord is LONG. And his LOVE ENDURETH FOREVER. ETERNITY is very hard for

man to grasp in his heart, but logic tells us that ETERNITY is timeless. No Slavery, carries

no chain, no deceit, shall not ensnare.
So where is your blind Faith.
The payer is a simple one.
Serenity. GOD GRANT ME THE SERENITY TO ACCEPT THE THINGS I CANNOT CHANGE, CHANGE THE THINGS

I CAN AND THE WISDOM TO KNOW THE DIFFEENCE!!!
Keep things simple folks. FLUSH IT!!! YOU WON@T DIE EVEN IF YOU THINK YOU REALLY ARE lolol
Thought is a head fuck. lolol
Drink the water, eat the food.
Three little tips for a content and happy life.
Find someone to LOVE (yourself fist) Have and allow someone to LOVE you(GOD) and find

something to do. Earn your money so as you have all that you require. Simple really. It only

took me 23 years to see this, plus 20 years of chaos before lolol

Now for a great and most wondrous KEY.
IF the house be worthy, let your Peace come upon it. Respect your temples.
But if the house be not worthy of respect, let your Peace return to you.
You can only help yourself if you require and do. Obedience to self.

Here is the point of my Anger.

Whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear your words, when you depart out of that house or

City, Shake with vemanance, the dust off your feet.
For you waste your time and effort trying to explain yourself to those that have already

made up there own minds, that you are wrong and have no Valour.
This is real FOOD:)

You are sent forth as Sheep in the midst of Wolves, be ye then wise as Serpents, and as

harmless as Doves.
But beware of Men:) for they will deliver you up to the Councils and they will Scourge you in

there Synagogues. I wonder why lolol. FEAR:) That is why;)
You shall be brought before Governors and Kings, for the sake of your Faith, to give a

Testimony, and prove Witness.
So my fiends. When they deliver you up, take no thought how or what ye shall speak: For it

shall be given you in that same hour what you shall speak.
For it shall not be you that speaks, but the Spirit of your Father that speaks for you.
The brother shall deliver up the brother to death, and the Father the Child; and the

Children shall rise up against there Parents, and cause them to be put to death.
And ye shall be Hated of all Men for the Power of your FAITH; But he that ENDUETH TO THE END

SHALL BE SAVED.
Be thou FAITHFUL unto DEATH, and I shall give you the Crown of Life. The Gift given freely

by GOD, for out of your own Obedience, shall you attain the light of the World, and allow

your Spirit to shine forth without distortion and cunning deceptions.
The Disciple is not above his Master, nor the Servant above his Lord.
I pray most sincerely that, you accept that you are MEN and not GODS. For Pride blinds the

Spirit and makes the Heart cold.
Sharpen your faces as flint unto the Lord and narrow your path so that you only see all the

good of the Kingdom. Praise God every minute of your waking hours, for the most wonderful

gift of life. Before retiring, praise the Lord for keeping you safe this day and supplying

you with all your needs. Be content with what you already have, for out of Obedience, GOD

shall surely Bless you and Yours.
Fear then not therefore: for there is nothing covered, that shall not be revealed; and hid

that shall not be known.
What is told in Darkness, speak ye in light: and what ye hear in the ear, Preach thee upon

the house tops.
Fear not them that kill the body, but are not able to kill the Spirit. But fear the Lord thy

God with trembling, for he is able to destroy the body and the Soul in HELL!!!~’

Sure I am angry. Angry at how stupid and sick I had made myself. I am sorry for being so

blind, but now am most joyful, that I ain’t DEAD yet!lolol!!!
Righteous Anger is not wrong, for it edifies the body, focuses the mind and sets your Spirit

Free.
I pray most eagerly and with prior knowledge that if you are Obedient to the will of GOD. You

shall inherit the earth. All the good fruits of the field and Herb and animal of the earth shall

be yours, for succor and savour.
Br Good people, love each other and feed upon the word for without the light of the Spirit

guiding, you are most definitely lost. God has many Shepherds so do not be disheartened, as

in the dark God can bring you too the light. How about letting go of all the baggage and

getting, letting God do the walking and the talking for you. He is a lot better at it than

either you or I.
Through and onto unto Glory. Step out people and move to and find the Higher Ground, for the

waters rise swiftly and those that do not heed the warnings of the Word shall drown in there

own seas of Hell and rap there heads in there weeds of indecision.
Arise at the Dawn and give thanks for the Lord shall deliver you this day and place you upon

the Beach of life. BORA BORA is a most beautiful paradise lolol.
Have a full and most wonderful day my friends and pray remember, be servants unto your

temples and earn RESPECT, rightfully given.
Blessings and Heart felt Love to one and all.
Bless you Paul;^’
Strength, Power and Honour, shall lead you to respect yourself and others. Do not make

warfare for the sake of Warfare. I pray. Make LOVE!!! EAT the FODD, Drink the water, praise

the Lord for your life, Always Amen’
Yashaweeeeeeee’ IeeaaaaaaaaAAAAAh’ LOCCO” Peace!!!
Shalom^’~ Booshaaaaa’, BE GOOD, CHILDEN OF

THE REVELUTION, MARCH ON UNTO Glory lolol;)~’          POWER:)!!!’
Pray for the Strength to overcome you enemies.
REMBER WE ARE MEN OF THE JUNGLE lolololololololol  ho ho ho ho Ha ha ha!!! Bless lol~’^
Laters, I go to wash, Pray and eat. Drink the Water:) Edify your bodies not your minds:)
Question? When you by a real soft piece of clothing, why does the Manufacture, stick two

coarse, Nylon, tickets inside. One at the back of the neck, one low on the seem on the left,

and a Logo on the front. The tickets scratch like Hell.;( (‘!’)~~~’    ^
No fear.
Come here headless Chicken, I am Hungry!  😉

Hello my Brothers and Sisters,
Some of you cannot handle the truth, so all I can do this day is give you some words of Wisdom, Recorrded, but not proved, but definitaly a Spiritual Walk.

Little book,eat, digest,move create, whip the winds. lolol

Locca’Rappea’

Provide neither gold, nor silver, nor brass in you purses, Nor scrip(Script lolol Sorcery) for your Journey, neither two coats, neither shoes, nor yet Staves, for the workmen is worthy of his meat.

So I am angry yes? The little passage above puts the whole into perspective.

Why harry so, with the worries of this world, when your Father in Heaven has already got it all sorted for you.

And into whatsoever city ye shall enter, enquire who is worthy; and there abide till ye go thence.
And when ye come into a house, Salute it.

For it is a most beautiful work of the hand of Man and should be respected as you should resect your body. You make attempts each day to tidy and clean your domain. But you forget that the Temple of you Spirit is your body. The saying, Cleanliness is next to Godleness, counts to your body and not your Domain. Wordly Goods , corrupt the mind and blind the Spirit from the truth. You cannot eat your house or your car or your wife, or your kids.
You cannot take them with you when you die, so why try and control, what you have when God gave it to you freely. If you ask for nothing, God shall give you what you require.

My Anger on this list is only justified, by the outlandish stupidity i see befoe me.
Excuses.
Two words that, Junkies and addicts hate!lolol
GIVE UP!!!
Why do you need the crutch, when your legs work perfectly well in the first place:)
I had to reach complete Spiritual Death, just to kill my stupid head and pride and pray daily that GOD would brake my heart and rebuild me as I was born.
Out of Obedience to my body and my Spirit, God has seen fit to give me back my state of mind and allow me to live my life to the full. I walked up the Moutain, and when I reached the top. I said, GOD IF IT IS MY TIME TO GO I WILL SEE YOU IN A MINUTE MATE.And then I jumped off, knowing full well that out of blind Faith, GOD would catch me. I pray you all remembe that the Arm of the Lord is LONG. And his LOVE ENDURETH FOREVER. ETERNITY is very hard for man to grasp in his heart, but logic tells us that ETERNITY is timeless. No Slavery, carries no chain, no deciet, shall not ensnare.
So where is your blind Faith.
The payer is a simple one.
Serenity. GOD GRANT ME THE SERENITY TO ACCEPT THE THINGS I CANNOT CHANGE, CHANGE THE THINGS I CAN AND THE wISDOM TO KNOW THE DIFFEENCE!!!
Keep things simple folks. FLUSH IT!!! YOU WON@T DIE EVEN IF YOU THINK YOU REALLY ARE lolol
Thought is a head fuck. lolol
Drink the water, eat the food.
Three little tips for a content and happy life.
Find someone to LOVE (yourself fist) Have and allow someone to LOVE you(GOD) and find something to do. Earn your money so as you have all that you require. Simple really. It only took me 23 years to see this, plus 20 years of chaos before lolol

Now fo a gea t and most wonderious KEY.
IF the house be worthy, let your Peace come apon it. Respect your temples.
But if the house be not wothy of respect, let your Peace return to you.
You can only help youself if you require and do. Obedience to self.

Here is the point of my Anger.

Whosoever shall not recieve you, nor hear your words, when you depart out of that house or City, Shake with vemance the dust off your feet.
For you waste your time and effort trying to explain yourself to those that have already made up there own minds, that you are wrong and have no Valour.
This is real FOOD:)

You are sent forth as Sheep in the midst of Wolves, be ye then wise as Sepents, and as harmless as Doves.
But beware of Men:) for they will delive you up to the Councils and they will Scorge you in there Synagogues. I wonder why lolol. FEAR:) That is why;)
You shall be brought before Goveners and Kings, for the sake of your Faith, to give a Testomonie, and prove Witness.
So my fiends. When they deliver you up, take no thought how or what ye shall speek: For it shall be given you in that same hour what you shall speak.
For it shall not be you that speaks, but the Spirit of your Father that speaks for you.
The brother shall deliver up the brother to daeth, and the Father the Child; and the Children shall rise up against there Parents, and cause them to be put to death.
And ye shall be Hated of all Men for the Power of your FAITH; But he that ENDUETH TO THE END SHALL BE SAVED.
Be thou FAITHFUL untoo DEATH, and I shall give you the Crown of Life. The Gift given feely by GOD, for out of your own Obedience, shall you attain the light of the World, and allow your Spirit to shine forth without distortion and cunning deceptions.
The Desciple is not above his Master, nor the Servant above his Lord.
I pray most sincerely that, you accept that you are MEN and not GODS. For Pride blinds the Spirit and makes the Heart cold.
Sharpen your faces as flint unto the Lod and narow your path so that you only see all the good of the Kingdom. Praise God every minute of your waking hours, for the most wonderfull gift of life. Before retiring, praise the Lord for keeping you safe this day and supplying you with all your needs. Be content with what you aleady have, fo out of Obedience, GOD shall surely Bless you and Yours.
Fear then not therefore: fo there is nothing covered, that shall not be revealed; and hid that shall not be known.
What is told in Darkness, speek ye in light: and what ye hear in the ear, Preach thee apon the house tops.
Fear not them that kill the body, but are not able to kill the Spirit. But fear the Lord thy God with trembling, for he is able to destroy the body and the Soul in HELL!!!~’

Sure I am angry. Angry at how stupid and sick I had made myself. I am sorry for being so blind, but now am most joyful, that I ain’t DEAD yet!lolol!!!
Rightious Anger is not wrong, for it edifies the body, focuses the mind and sets your Spirit Free.
I pray most eagely and with fo knowledge that if you ae Obedient to the will of GOD. You shall inheit the eath. All the good fruits of the field and heb and animal of the eath shall be yours, for succorr and savour.
Br Good people, love each other and feed apon the wod for without the light of the Spirit guiding, you are most deffinitaly lost. God has many Sheppards so do not be disheartend, as in the dark God can bring you too the light. How about letting go of all the baggage and getting, letting God do the walking and the talking for you. He is a lot better at it than either you or I.
Through and onto unto Glory. Step out people and move to and find the Higher Ground, for the waters rise swiftly and those that do not heed the warnings of the Word shall drown in there own seas of Hell and rap there heads in there weeds of indesision.
Arise at the Dawn and give thanks fo the Lord shall deliver you this day and place you apon the Beach of life. BORA BORA is a most beautiful paradise lolol.
Have a full and most wonderfull day my friends and pray remeber, be servants unto your temples and earn RESPECT, rightfully given.
Blessings and Heart felt Love to one and all.
Bless you Paul;^’
Strenght, Power and Honour, shall lead you to respect youself and others. Do not make warfare for the sake of Warrfare. I pray. Make LOVE!!! EAT the FODD, Drink the water, praise the Lord for your life, Always Amen’
Yashaweeeeeeee’ IeeaaaaaaaaAAAAAh’ LOCCO” Peace!!!
Shalom^’~ Booshaaaaa’, BE GOOD, CHILDEN OF THE REVELUTION, MARCH ON UNTO GLOrY lolol;)~’ POWER:)!!!’
Pray for the Strenght to ovecome you enemies.
REMBER WE ARE MEN OF THE JUNGLE lolololololololol  ho ho ho ho Ha ha ha!!! Bless lol~’^
Laters, I go to wash, Pray and eat. Drink the Water:) Edify your bodies not your minds:)
Question? When you by a real soft piece of clothing, why does the Manufacture, stick two coarse, Nylon, tickets inside. One at the back of the neck, one low on the seem on the left, and a Logo on the front. The tickets scatch like Hell.;(              (‘!’)~~~’    ^
No fear.

_________________________________________________________________
Are you using the latest version of MSN Messenger? Download MSN Messenger 7.5 today! http://join.msn.com/messenger/overview

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Reasons for Anger.
Date: April 11, 2006 at 2:07:05 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I am not going to copy and paste your entire post Jiggy. Your words in the post are taken from the Bible, the book of Mathew, chapter 10…one of my favorite chapters in the book of Matthew.
But Jiggy, why do you quote the Bible to us? We can all read!
Talk…..share your thoughts, not the thoughts of John the Baptist, Paul, Jesus, Wayne Dyer, Stephen King……..I would like to hear from Jiggy.
Callie

From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] NEW DRUG CP(OT!!)
Date: April 11, 2006 at 2:18:08 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 4/11/2006 12:57:37 P.M. Central Standard Time, ptpeet@nyc.rr.com writes:
It says right in the text on the first page of experiences that it’s a
“joke,” and if we read tyhe front page, it’s not put up by Vaults of Erowid,
it’s put up by The Vaults of Meow.
So don’t lose respect for anyone Callie. It’s hilarious.

Yep Preston….I finally figured that out! It is hilarious!
You must be getting the Ibogaine e-mails in a fucked up order or something. Mine have been fucked up too for the past week or so.
Example….you may reply to me now and I may not receive your reply until tonight or even tomorrow, even though I am receiving other replies and posts in the order they are sent.
Day before yesterday, I didn’t receive any Ibogaine posts until I went to bed then woke up to 236 e-mails! Most of them Ibogaine!!
The cat piss was one of them. I somehow missed the one that said it was a joke! Hell, I have heard of people ingesting all kinds of shit to hopefully get the ‘ultimate trip’, so I figured cat piss was just as one more thing some fucked up addict had tried!
I did feel pretty embarrassed and silly though for thinking it was true! So, the joke got me and I wasn’t even an intended ‘butt of the joke’.
Callie

From: “Paul Brookshaw” <jiggy9@hotmail.co.uk>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Kirk!
Date: April 11, 2006 at 3:35:18 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hello Kirsty,
At least it had the desired effect lolol
You now give me the respect I would expect to give others and not be treated with contempt. Thankyou and Blessings be with you this day. lolol
Oh by the way, Jason, you are a man not a God. Get it sorted lolol
Strenght, Power and Honour shall lead you to respect yourself.
May the Love of God, and the Fellowship of the Holy Spirit be with you and abide with you always, this day and for ever more. Amen’
Heart felt Love and Blessings Paul;)
Little and Humble.
I attack cos I see stupidity before me that is all.
Just think twice and you will be alright. Have a great day now xxx~~~’

From: Kirk <captkirk@clear.net.nz>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Kirk!
Date: Tue, 11 Apr 2006 09:56:06 +1200

Thinking he who rants loudest and rudest could be the one who has lost the
plot.
Why are you attacking people so rudely on this list for them having an
opinion that differs from yours?
Think you need to question why that is.
Debate is cool, but you’re just being rude and not allowing for any other
opinion bar your own tunnel visioned one.
I hope YOU get to see the full picture one day.
In the meantime, I wish you well.
Kirk

—–Original Message—–
From: Paul Brookshaw [mailto:jiggy9@hotmail.co.uk]
Sent: Tuesday, 11 April 2006 9:23 a.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Kirk!

Hello Kirk,
I think what yoiu just said is crap. Pure egotistical rubbish.
Methadone lol
Let me tell you where i have just come from. OK
For the last 6 years I had been taking, 80mg of Methadone +, half a gram of
Scag, 600mg of Dihydracodine. 40mg of Certraline, 150mg of Valium, plus
little tickles in between of Moggys and Tamazapam. A bottle of vodka, plus 4

special brews. 3000mg of Gabapentin, 15 grms of weed, plus tobacco, and now
i am clean.
What do you mean by Methadone eh?
I took Iboga to stop myself from self anialation. You took it cos you whee
to masculine.
Get a life.
Seriously. You both deserve one another.
You’ve lost the plot completely.
Another one bites the dust. lolol>’~+

Blessings be with you and may you see fully one day. lolol
That is why I seem to moke OK?
Get it sorted.

Bless you Paul:)’

_________________________________________________________________
Are you using the latest version of MSN Messenger? Download MSN Messenger
7.5 today! http://join.msn.com/messenger/overview

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html
[%]

\]=———————————————————————=[/


No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.385 / Virus Database: 268.4.0/306 – Release Date: 04/09/2006


No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.385 / Virus Database: 268.4.0/306 – Release Date: 04/09/2006

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

_________________________________________________________________
The new MSN Search Toolbar now includes Desktop search! http://join.msn.com/toolbar/overview

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] NEW DRUG CP(OT!!)
Date: April 11, 2006 at 4:42:48 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

It says right in the text on the first page of experiences that it’s a “joke,” and if we read tyhe front page, it’s not put up by Vaults of Erowid, it’s put up by The Vaults of Meow.
So don’t lose respect for anyone Callie. It’s hilarious.

—–
“If God dropped acid, would he see people?”  ~Steven Wright

Peace, love and lotsof respect.
Preston Peet
ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor Underground- the Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations, Astonishing Archaeology and Hidden History
Editor Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Columnist HighTimes mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —– From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Monday, April 10, 2006 8:52 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] NEW DRUG CP(OT!!)

LMAO! I went back and read the experiences and now I know it is a hoax! Come on people!! Are you that fucking hard up that you would inject cat pee?!! I hope not!
One way I know it is a hoax, reading Boobs Mefeely said they went to pharmacy bought 1ml insulin syringe then emptied contents and then drew up cat pee! Never bought an insulin syringe already loaded with something from pharmacy.
In fact my respect for vaults has substantially lessened due to this shit!
Callie

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Fwd: Back to Preston
Date: April 11, 2006 at 4:54:14 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

but you
could be sincere for once in your life. Surley, Just once. Bless you Preston Peet and I pray you get it sorted:)<

Why do those I’m sure I’d hang out with least insist on praying for me most? Why do those who tell me they’re praying for me always seem the least happy people? Why do their prayers never ever seem really sincere anyway? Why don’t they pray for themselves and leave me alone?
Paul, I think you’ve done one heck of a lot of acid (or ibogaine?) or something. Take a chill pill and relax already. Why are you lashing out at me for someone else? Don’t you think if someone else were (still?) angry or even upset at me, I’d hear about it, from them instead of you? Oh hold on, the key word there is “think” and you seem to be doing more “imagining” than actual “thinking.”
Why am I bothering answering the crazy guy? I don’t know, ’cause it’s not yet 5AM and I’ve already been up nearly 2 hours now?

—–
“If God dropped acid, would he see Paul Brookshaw?” – Preston Peet

Peace, love and lotsof respect.
Preston Peet
ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor Underground- the Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations, Astonishing Archaeology and Hidden History
Editor Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Columnist HighTimes mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —– From: “Paul Brookshaw” <jiggy9@hotmail.co.uk>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Monday, April 10, 2006 4:59 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Fwd: Back to Preston

Wow Preston and I thought you might of had some savy. Photos on your web site.
You shouldn’t of done it. OK The people were only trying to help you. That is what I meant OK!!!
Better than a Lie cos it was the truth, but you shouldn’t of put it on the Web, in Photos. That is what I ment by you couldn’t have it for yourself, so you ripped it down.
OK?
You made me angry and also others that tryed to help you.
You should of thought twice mate, cos I doubt if you will be welcome for quite a while.
As Sara’ said, it is like inviting the wrong people to your house. How would you like me to say, publish something of you that was personnal like. It would hurt, wouldn’t it.
Don saw what you did, when he said with suprise. Der, nice one Preston.
Now you see, now you understand.
You should of asked, at least.
Sara’ was only trying to help you and you chucked it in her face.
Not nice or clever, was it.
Didn’t have much love or compassion, and deffinitaly no Grace.
How often do you eat Sunday dinner without Gravy? Eh!!!
You should make amends mate, or is it just a carear thing with you.
Gready?
Bless you bro and I pray you see now. Once bitten twice shy. Twice bitten, Foolish?
I suppose I can leave you now to sort things yourself.
Understood you can’t roll back the clock and change what you did, but you could be sincere for once in your life. Surley, Just once. Be a Gentleman.

Bless you Preston Peet and I pray you get it sorted:)

Paul;)’

_________________________________________________________________
Are you using the latest version of MSN Messenger? Download MSN Messenger 7.5 today! http://join.msn.com/messenger/overview

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: Vector Vector <vector620022002@yahoo.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] Go Dana!
Date: April 11, 2006 at 10:23:31 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Old post by Tom Weiss but I’ve never seen it before

.:vector:.

MEDICAL MARIJUANA AND IBOGAINE
TOM WEISS (DEMOCRAT) FOR U.S. SENATE
THE INITIAL PLATFORM (PART III)
MEDICAL MARIJUANA AND IBOGAINE

http://tomweissdemocratforussenate.blogspot.com/2005/10/medical-marijuana-and-ibogaine.html

As “Cures-Not-Wars” founder Dana Beal has shown, in speeches and much
literature, there is a wealth of scientific evidence establishing the
reality that cannabis, a.k.a. marijuana, when appropriately used under
medical supervision, is an herb with major therapeutic qualities
beneficial in the treatment of illness including glaucoma, depression,
Alzheimer’s, and cancer. The story of glaucoma victim, Elvy Musikka, of
Florida, is indicative. As reported some years ago in UP FRONT News,
Ms. Musikka`s virulent glaucoma was not slowed down by 12 eye
surgeries. On the advice of one of her doctors, she – for the first
time – tried marijuana, with the herb immediately stopping the advance
of her disease. She wound up having to fight her way up through the
federal courts, and won the right to participate in a federal
government program which dispenses prescribed marijuana. Without the
pot, she would have gone completely blind, as my father did, from the
same disease.

Ibogaine is a naturally occurring substance derived from the iboga
tree, which grows primarily in the African nation of Gabon. Under
scientific testing conditions, ibogaine has been found to be effective
in stopping addiction to hard drugs such as heroin and cocaine.

Hillary Clinton’s and George W. Bush’s “War on drugs” is a war on the
victims of drugs. It punishes the innocent, the creative, and the ill.
There is little doubt in my mind that, had Bill Clinton inhaled, his
presidency might well have been characterized by less corruption and
greater respect for the human rights of people other than himself and
his narcissistic wife.

As a U.S. Senator, I intend to introduce legislation legalizing the use
of marijuana under medical supervision for the treatment of illnesses
deemed to respond to such therapy. I will also introduce legislation
authorizing $1 billion annually for five years to finance further
research into the medical uses of marijuana.

Similarily, as regards ibogaine, I will introduce legislation to
finance a scientific task force to further study the substance, from
its growth and use in, for example, Gabon, to its potential importation
for use here, in the treatment of drug addiction. I will also ask for
additional funds for the U.S. Food and Drug Administration to give
priority consideration to evaluation of ibogaine in medicinal form.

And Hillary can just continue holding her breath.

Tom Weiss
August 20, 2005
Tomsupfrontnews@yahoo.com and/or
wwilligan@aol.com
www.Tomsupfrontnews.blogspot.com
posted by Tom Weiss at 8:25 PM

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: “Paul Brookshaw” <jiggy9@hotmail.co.uk>
Subject: [Ibogaine] Reasons for Anger.
Date: April 11, 2006 at 11:44:07 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hello my Brothers and Sisters,
Some of you cannot handle the truth, so all I can do this day

is give you some words of Wisdom, Recorded, but not proved, but definitely a Spiritual

Walk.

Little book, eat, digest, move create, whip the winds. lolol

Locca’Rappea’

Provide neither gold, nor silver, nor brass in you purses, Nor scrip(Script lolol Sorcery)

for your Journey, neither two coats, neither shoes, nor yet Staves, for the workmen is

worthy of his meat.

So I am angry yes? The little passage above puts the whole into perspective.

Why harry so, with the worries of this world, when your Father in Heaven has already got it

all sorted for you.

And into whatsoever city ye shall enter, enquire who is worthy; and there abide till ye go

thence.
And when ye come into a house, Salute it.

For it is a most beautiful work of the hand of Man and should be respected as you should

respect your body. You make attempts each day to tidy and clean your domain. But you forget

that the Temple of you Spirit is your body. The saying, Cleanliness is next to Godliness,

counts to your body and not your Domain. Worldly Goods , corrupt the mind and blind the

Spirit from the truth. You cannot eat your house or your car or your wife, or your kids.
You cannot take them with you when you die, so why try and control, what you have when God

gave it to you freely. If you ask for nothing, God shall give you what you require.

My Anger on this list is only justified, by the outlandish stupidity i see before me.
Excuses.
Two words that, Junkies and addicts hate!lolol
GIVE UP!!!
Why do you need the crutch, when your legs work perfectly well in the first place:)
I had to reach complete Spiritual Death, just to kill my stupid head and pride and pray

daily that GOD would brake my heart and rebuild me as I was born.
Out of Obedience to my body and my Spirit, God has seen fit to give me back my state of mind

and allow me to live my life to the full. I walked up the Mountain, and when I reached the

top. I said, GOD IF IT IS MY TIME TO GO I WILL SEE YOU IN A MINUTE MATE. And then I jumped

off, knowing full well that out of blind Faith, GOD would catch me. I pray you all remember

that the Arm of the Lord is LONG. And his LOVE ENDURETH FOREVER. ETERNITY is very hard for

man to grasp in his heart, but logic tells us that ETERNITY is timeless. No Slavery, carries

no chain, no deceit, shall not ensnare.
So where is your blind Faith.
The payer is a simple one.
Serenity. GOD GRANT ME THE SERENITY TO ACCEPT THE THINGS I CANNOT CHANGE, CHANGE THE THINGS

I CAN AND THE WISDOM TO KNOW THE DIFFEENCE!!!
Keep things simple folks. FLUSH IT!!! YOU WON@T DIE EVEN IF YOU THINK YOU REALLY ARE lolol
Thought is a head fuck. lolol
Drink the water, eat the food.
Three little tips for a content and happy life.
Find someone to LOVE (yourself fist) Have and allow someone to LOVE you(GOD) and find

something to do. Earn your money so as you have all that you require. Simple really. It only

took me 23 years to see this, plus 20 years of chaos before lolol

Now for a great and most wondrous KEY.
IF the house be worthy, let your Peace come upon it. Respect your temples.
But if the house be not worthy of respect, let your Peace return to you.
You can only help yourself if you require and do. Obedience to self.

Here is the point of my Anger.

Whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear your words, when you depart out of that house or

City, Shake with vemanance, the dust off your feet.
For you waste your time and effort trying to explain yourself to those that have already

made up there own minds, that you are wrong and have no Valour.
This is real FOOD:)

You are sent forth as Sheep in the midst of Wolves, be ye then wise as Serpents, and as

harmless as Doves.
But beware of Men:) for they will deliver you up to the Councils and they will Scourge you in

there Synagogues. I wonder why lolol. FEAR:) That is why;)
You shall be brought before Governors and Kings, for the sake of your Faith, to give a

Testimony, and prove Witness.
So my fiends. When they deliver you up, take no thought how or what ye shall speak: For it

shall be given you in that same hour what you shall speak.
For it shall not be you that speaks, but the Spirit of your Father that speaks for you.
The brother shall deliver up the brother to death, and the Father the Child; and the

Children shall rise up against there Parents, and cause them to be put to death.
And ye shall be Hated of all Men for the Power of your FAITH; But he that ENDUETH TO THE END

SHALL BE SAVED.
Be thou FAITHFUL unto DEATH, and I shall give you the Crown of Life. The Gift given freely

by GOD, for out of your own Obedience, shall you attain the light of the World, and allow

your Spirit to shine forth without distortion and cunning deceptions.
The Disciple is not above his Master, nor the Servant above his Lord.
I pray most sincerely that, you accept that you are MEN and not GODS. For Pride blinds the

Spirit and makes the Heart cold.
Sharpen your faces as flint unto the Lord and narrow your path so that you only see all the

good of the Kingdom. Praise God every minute of your waking hours, for the most wonderful

gift of life. Before retiring, praise the Lord for keeping you safe this day and supplying

you with all your needs. Be content with what you already have, for out of Obedience, GOD

shall surely Bless you and Yours.
Fear then not therefore: for there is nothing covered, that shall not be revealed; and hid

that shall not be known.
What is told in Darkness, speak ye in light: and what ye hear in the ear, Preach thee upon

the house tops.
Fear not them that kill the body, but are not able to kill the Spirit. But fear the Lord thy

God with trembling, for he is able to destroy the body and the Soul in HELL!!!~’

Sure I am angry. Angry at how stupid and sick I had made myself. I am sorry for being so

blind, but now am most joyful, that I ain’t DEAD yet!lolol!!!
Righteous Anger is not wrong, for it edifies the body, focuses the mind and sets your Spirit

Free.
I pray most eagerly and with prior knowledge that if you are Obedient to the will of GOD. You

shall inherit the earth. All the good fruits of the field and Herb and animal of the earth shall

be yours, for succor and savour.
Br Good people, love each other and feed upon the word for without the light of the Spirit

guiding, you are most definitely lost. God has many Shepherds so do not be disheartened, as

in the dark God can bring you too the light. How about letting go of all the baggage and

getting, letting God do the walking and the talking for you. He is a lot better at it than

either you or I.
Through and onto unto Glory. Step out people and move to and find the Higher Ground, for the

waters rise swiftly and those that do not heed the warnings of the Word shall drown in there

own seas of Hell and rap there heads in there weeds of indecision.
Arise at the Dawn and give thanks for the Lord shall deliver you this day and place you upon

the Beach of life. BORA BORA is a most beautiful paradise lolol.
Have a full and most wonderful day my friends and pray remember, be servants unto your

temples and earn RESPECT, rightfully given.
Blessings and Heart felt Love to one and all.
Bless you Paul;^’
Strength, Power and Honour, shall lead you to respect yourself and others. Do not make

warfare for the sake of Warfare. I pray. Make LOVE!!! EAT the FODD, Drink the water, praise

the Lord for your life, Always Amen’
Yashaweeeeeeee’ IeeaaaaaaaaAAAAAh’ LOCCO” Peace!!!
Shalom^’~ Booshaaaaa’, BE GOOD, CHILDEN OF

THE REVELUTION, MARCH ON UNTO Glory lolol;)~’          POWER:)!!!’
Pray for the Strength to overcome you enemies.
REMBER WE ARE MEN OF THE JUNGLE lolololololololol  ho ho ho ho Ha ha ha!!! Bless lol~’^
Laters, I go to wash, Pray and eat. Drink the Water:) Edify your bodies not your minds:)
Question? When you by a real soft piece of clothing, why does the Manufacture, stick two

coarse, Nylon, tickets inside. One at the back of the neck, one low on the seem on the left,

and a Logo on the front. The tickets scratch like Hell.;(              (‘!’)~~~’    ^
No fear.
Come here headless Chicken, I am Hungry!  😉

Hello my Brothers and Sisters,
Some of you cannot handle the truth, so all I can do this day is give you some words of Wisdom, Recorrded, but not proved, but definitaly a Spiritual Walk.

Little book,eat, digest,move create, whip the winds. lolol

Locca’Rappea’

Provide neither gold, nor silver, nor brass in you purses, Nor scrip(Script lolol Sorcery) for your Journey, neither two coats, neither shoes, nor yet Staves, for the workmen is worthy of his meat.

So I am angry yes? The little passage above puts the whole into perspective.

Why harry so, with the worries of this world, when your Father in Heaven has already got it all sorted for you.

And into whatsoever city ye shall enter, enquire who is worthy; and there abide till ye go thence.
And when ye come into a house, Salute it.

For it is a most beautiful work of the hand of Man and should be respected as you should resect your body. You make attempts each day to tidy and clean your domain. But you forget that the Temple of you Spirit is your body. The saying, Cleanliness is next to Godleness, counts to your body and not your Domain. Wordly Goods , corrupt the mind and blind the Spirit from the truth. You cannot eat your house or your car or your wife, or your kids.
You cannot take them with you when you die, so why try and control, what you have when God gave it to you freely. If you ask for nothing, God shall give you what you require.

My Anger on this list is only justified, by the outlandish stupidity i see befoe me.
Excuses.
Two words that, Junkies and addicts hate!lolol
GIVE UP!!!
Why do you need the crutch, when your legs work perfectly well in the first place:)
I had to reach complete Spiritual Death, just to kill my stupid head and pride and pray daily that GOD would brake my heart and rebuild me as I was born.
Out of Obedience to my body and my Spirit, God has seen fit to give me back my state of mind and allow me to live my life to the full. I walked up the Moutain, and when I reached the top. I said, GOD IF IT IS MY TIME TO GO I WILL SEE YOU IN A MINUTE MATE.And then I jumped off, knowing full well that out of blind Faith, GOD would catch me. I pray you all remembe that the Arm of the Lord is LONG. And his LOVE ENDURETH FOREVER. ETERNITY is very hard for man to grasp in his heart, but logic tells us that ETERNITY is timeless. No Slavery, carries no chain, no deciet, shall not ensnare.
So where is your blind Faith.
The payer is a simple one.
Serenity. GOD GRANT ME THE SERENITY TO ACCEPT THE THINGS I CANNOT CHANGE, CHANGE THE THINGS I CAN AND THE wISDOM TO KNOW THE DIFFEENCE!!!
Keep things simple folks. FLUSH IT!!! YOU WON@T DIE EVEN IF YOU THINK YOU REALLY ARE lolol
Thought is a head fuck. lolol
Drink the water, eat the food.
Three little tips for a content and happy life.
Find someone to LOVE (yourself fist) Have and allow someone to LOVE you(GOD) and find something to do. Earn your money so as you have all that you require. Simple really. It only took me 23 years to see this, plus 20 years of chaos before lolol

Now fo a gea t and most wonderious KEY.
IF the house be worthy, let your Peace come apon it. Respect your temples.
But if the house be not wothy of respect, let your Peace return to you.
You can only help youself if you require and do. Obedience to self.

Here is the point of my Anger.

Whosoever shall not recieve you, nor hear your words, when you depart out of that house or City, Shake with vemance the dust off your feet.
For you waste your time and effort trying to explain yourself to those that have already made up there own minds, that you are wrong and have no Valour.
This is real FOOD:)

You are sent forth as Sheep in the midst of Wolves, be ye then wise as Sepents, and as harmless as Doves.
But beware of Men:) for they will delive you up to the Councils and they will Scorge you in there Synagogues. I wonder why lolol. FEAR:) That is why;)
You shall be brought before Goveners and Kings, for the sake of your Faith, to give a Testomonie, and prove Witness.
So my fiends. When they deliver you up, take no thought how or what ye shall speek: For it shall be given you in that same hour what you shall speak.
For it shall not be you that speaks, but the Spirit of your Father that speaks for you.
The brother shall deliver up the brother to daeth, and the Father the Child; and the Children shall rise up against there Parents, and cause them to be put to death.
And ye shall be Hated of all Men for the Power of your FAITH; But he that ENDUETH TO THE END SHALL BE SAVED.
Be thou FAITHFUL untoo DEATH, and I shall give you the Crown of Life. The Gift given feely by GOD, for out of your own Obedience, shall you attain the light of the World, and allow your Spirit to shine forth without distortion and cunning deceptions.
The Desciple is not above his Master, nor the Servant above his Lord.
I pray most sincerely that, you accept that you are MEN and not GODS. For Pride blinds the Spirit and makes the Heart cold.
Sharpen your faces as flint unto the Lod and narow your path so that you only see all the good of the Kingdom. Praise God every minute of your waking hours, for the most wonderfull gift of life. Before retiring, praise the Lord for keeping you safe this day and supplying you with all your needs. Be content with what you aleady have, fo out of Obedience, GOD shall surely Bless you and Yours.
Fear then not therefore: fo there is nothing covered, that shall not be revealed; and hid that shall not be known.
What is told in Darkness, speek ye in light: and what ye hear in the ear, Preach thee apon the house tops.
Fear not them that kill the body, but are not able to kill the Spirit. But fear the Lord thy God with trembling, for he is able to destroy the body and the Soul in HELL!!!~’

Sure I am angry. Angry at how stupid and sick I had made myself. I am sorry for being so blind, but now am most joyful, that I ain’t DEAD yet!lolol!!!
Rightious Anger is not wrong, for it edifies the body, focuses the mind and sets your Spirit Free.
I pray most eagely and with fo knowledge that if you ae Obedient to the will of GOD. You shall inheit the eath. All the good fruits of the field and heb and animal of the eath shall be yours, for succorr and savour.
Br Good people, love each other and feed apon the wod for without the light of the Spirit guiding, you are most deffinitaly lost. God has many Sheppards so do not be disheartend, as in the dark God can bring you too the light. How about letting go of all the baggage and getting, letting God do the walking and the talking for you. He is a lot better at it than either you or I.
Through and onto unto Glory. Step out people and move to and find the Higher Ground, for the waters rise swiftly and those that do not heed the warnings of the Word shall drown in there own seas of Hell and rap there heads in there weeds of indesision.
Arise at the Dawn and give thanks fo the Lord shall deliver you this day and place you apon the Beach of life. BORA BORA is a most beautiful paradise lolol.
Have a full and most wonderfull day my friends and pray remeber, be servants unto your temples and earn RESPECT, rightfully given.
Blessings and Heart felt Love to one and all.
Bless you Paul;^’
Strenght, Power and Honour, shall lead you to respect youself and others. Do not make warfare for the sake of Warrfare. I pray. Make LOVE!!! EAT the FODD, Drink the water, praise the Lord for your life, Always Amen’
Yashaweeeeeeee’ IeeaaaaaaaaAAAAAh’ LOCCO” Peace!!!
Shalom^’~ Booshaaaaa’, BE GOOD, CHILDEN OF THE REVELUTION, MARCH ON UNTO GLOrY lolol;)~’          POWER:)!!!’
Pray for the Strenght to ovecome you enemies.
REMBER WE ARE MEN OF THE JUNGLE lolololololololol  ho ho ho ho Ha ha ha!!! Bless lol~’^
Laters, I go to wash, Pray and eat. Drink the Water:) Edify your bodies not your minds:)
Question? When you by a real soft piece of clothing, why does the Manufacture, stick two coarse, Nylon, tickets inside. One at the back of the neck, one low on the seem on the left, and a Logo on the front. The tickets scatch like Hell.;(              (‘!’)~~~’    ^
No fear.

_________________________________________________________________
Are you using the latest version of MSN Messenger? Download MSN Messenger 7.5 today! http://join.msn.com/messenger/overview

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: “Nick Sandberg” <nick227@tiscali.co.uk>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Kirk!
Date: April 11, 2006 at 4:31:25 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hey Paul,

Yeah, I mean you do seem to like condemning people a bit. That’s how I find
you. And, for sure, it seems a bit stronger if you can bring “God” into it
too. That’s OK. Why not just own that? “Hey I like to do a bit of hellfire
preaching and lay into people. That’s a part of me” I mention this as it can
be a way forward and I see you’re also a very nice guy, which can maybe get
not seen if people think you’re going to go into judgment mode. What do you
think?

Nick

—–Original Message—–
From: Kirk [mailto:captkirk@clear.net.nz]
Sent: 10 April 2006 22:56
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Kirk!

Thinking he who rants loudest and rudest could be the one who has lost the
plot.
Why are you attacking people so rudely on this list for them having an
opinion that differs from yours?
Think you need to question why that is.
Debate is cool, but you’re just being rude and not allowing for any other
opinion bar your own tunnel visioned one.
I hope YOU get to see the full picture one day.
In the meantime, I wish you well.
Kirk

—–Original Message—–
From: Paul Brookshaw [mailto:jiggy9@hotmail.co.uk]
Sent: Tuesday, 11 April 2006 9:23 a.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Kirk!

Hello Kirk,
I think what yoiu just said is crap. Pure egotistical
rubbish.
Methadone lol
Let me tell you where i have just come from. OK
For the last 6 years I had been taking, 80mg of Methadone +, half a gram
of
Scag, 600mg of Dihydracodine. 40mg of Certraline, 150mg of Valium, plus
little tickles in between of Moggys and Tamazapam. A bottle of vodka, plus
4

special brews. 3000mg of Gabapentin, 15 grms of weed, plus tobacco, and
now
i am clean.
What do you mean by Methadone eh?
I took Iboga to stop myself from self anialation. You took it cos you whee
to masculine.
Get a life.
Seriously. You both deserve one another.
You’ve lost the plot completely.
Another one bites the dust. lolol>’~+

Blessings be with you and may you see fully one day. lolol
That is why I seem to moke OK?
Get it sorted.

Bless you Paul:)’

_________________________________________________________________
Are you using the latest version of MSN Messenger? Download MSN Messenger
7.5 today! http://join.msn.com/messenger/overview

/]=———————————————————————
=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html
[%]

\]=———————————————————————
=[/


No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.385 / Virus Database: 268.4.0/306 – Release Date: 04/09/2006


No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.385 / Virus Database: 268.4.0/306 – Release Date: 04/09/2006

/]=———————————————————————
=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html
[%]
\]=———————————————————————
=[/

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: captkirk <captkirk@clear.net.nz>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] NEW DRUG CP(OT!!)
Date: April 10, 2006 at 11:58:45 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

testing

—– Original Message Follows —–
LMAO!!! duh! I am such a dumbass! I see the vaults of meow
now! I am sooooo   embarassed!
lmao!
sorry folks!
Callie

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] WOW!!
Date: April 10, 2006 at 9:03:57 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Think I know what ‘getting jiggy with it’ means now! hahahaha!! Jiggy, you being a bit hard on my friends, friend. Chill out a bit. We are all here for different reasons and to call someone you do not know a liar is a bit harsh don’t you think?
Step back and check yourself. Can we all accept each other and get along?
Callie

From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] NEW DRUG CP(OT!!)
Date: April 10, 2006 at 9:05:02 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

LMAO!!! duh! I am such a dumbass! I see the vaults of meow now! I am sooooo embarassed!
lmao!
sorry folks!
Callie

From: Crooked Eye <iboganaut420@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] NEW DRUG CP(OT!!)
Date: April 10, 2006 at 9:00:50 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Callie, that isn’t really on Erowid, that was a spoof site made up for an april fools joke..  erowid, is www.erowid.org not www.thoughtspam.com  😉   Don’t hold erowid accountable, it’s just a silly prank…

CallieMimosa@aol.com wrote:
LMAO! I went back and read the experiences and now I know it is a hoax! Come on people!! Are you that fucking hard up that you would inject cat pee?!! I hope not!
One way I know it is a hoax, reading Boobs Mefeely said they went to pharmacy bought 1ml insulin syringe then emptied contents and then drew up cat pee! Never bought an insulin syringe already loaded with something from pharmacy.
In fact my respect for vaults has substantially lessened due to this shit!
Callie
Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. PC-to-Phone calls for ridiculously low rates.

From: Crooked Eye <iboganaut420@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Quest. to Dana: hermaline- Shah initiation
Date: April 10, 2006 at 8:25:13 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

the vine of the dead/soul for ayahausca is rich in harmala alkaloids, and is known as Banesteriopsis Caapi, but I believe you are speaking of Syrian Rue aka Peganum Harmala seeds, which are very high in harmala alkaloids..  Both provide MAO Inhibition, for aya brews and are said to have benefits by themselves…

pascall roland <pascal-roland@hotmail.com> wrote:
Dear Dana,

if not wrong hermaline can be extracted from a plant known in Persian as
Esfand and til day used here by many people to purify & protect themsleves
and their environment ( Esfand as a dried plant is used as incense ). Every
home keeps some Esfand to perform purification when necessary.

Question: where did you learn that the Persian Shah used hermaline for the
initiation? Which Shah and what kind of initiation?

thks/rgds

  1. Roland

>From: HSLotsof@aol.com
>Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
>To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
>Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Fwd: Gospel of Judas
>Date: Sun, 9 Apr 2006 14:00:31 EDT
>
>Dana,
>
>Just curious as to the language of your attached
>gospel_of_judas_iscariot.pdf
>as it breaks down the narrative into “scenes.” Is that language customary?
>
>Howard
>
>In a message dated 4/8/06 4:24:39 PM, dana@phantom.com writes:
>
> >
> > New gnostic gospel supports passover plot account, thereby buttressing
>the
> > role of Grail contents with neuro-protective properties as a forensic
> > explanation of what happened in the crucifixion and resurrection.
> >
> > I now believe that ibogaine may actually have been one of the
>ingredients in
> > the Grail mixture– because it makes the body  totally numb and able to
>take
> > being pierced without pain or flinching, and because it’s been patented
>for
> > ischemia, which is a kind of global stroke effect brought on during
> > Crucifixion by gradual suffocation caused by the windpipe being cut off
>when the
> > crucified would lean forward trying to rest. Other ingredients would
>have been
> > some harmaline and possibly cannabis, but not ephedra, which would be
> > unnecessary with the iboga.
> >
> > If Egyptian mummies have been found with traces of cocaine and nicotine
> > (from the Americas), they couldn’t have had that much trouble getting a
>bit of
> > root-bark from the sub-Sahara. Iboga originates with the Pygmy, who
>supposedly
> > had it before anyone else. Somewhere I heard or read (and maybe some
>one on
> > the list can provide the citation.) that the Pygmy first had it in the
>Rift
> > Valley, 20,000 years ago.
> >
> > So the theory is that harmaline was involved in the initiation of the
> > Persian Shah, iboga in the ordination of the Pharaoh. Christ claimed the
>mantel of
> > both, of course.
> >
> > Dana/cnw
> >
> >
> > Begin forwarded message:
> >
> >
> > From: “William T. Brennan”
> > Date: April 6, 2006 10:40:49 PM EDT
> > To: dana@phantom.com
> > Subject: Gospel of Judas
> >
> > Hi Dana,
> >
> > I hope all’s been well this week.
> >
> > You may have heard by now, but the Gospel of Judas has recently
>surfaced.
> > I’ve copied the NYT story below and have attached a translation of the
> > gospel.  The unquestionably gnostic thread running through it seems
>like it’s right
> > up your alley.
> >
> > Predictably, I’ve combed through it looking for potential mushroom
> > references that line up with other more obvious gnostic mushroom
>references (Heinrich,
> > 2002) and feel like I’ve found a few.  Here they are with some notes:
> >
> >
> >
> > “Often he did not appear to his disciples as himself, but he was found
>among
> > them as a child.”
> >
> >
> >
> > I would love to find out what Greek term was used for “child,” and
>to get
> > into its etymology.  I’m pretty sure that it’s in Greek mythology
>(note that
> > this gospel was originally written in Greek) that mushrooms are often
> > referred to in childish terms (e.g., the “little ones”).  This line
>is especially
> > suspect since the rest of the passage makes no reference to Jesus as a
>child.
> >
> >
> >
> > One day he was with his disciples in Judea, and he found them gathered
> > together and seated in pious observance. When he [approached] his
>disciples, [34]
> > gathered >>together and seated and offering a prayer of thanksgiving
>over the
> > bread, [he] laughed.
> > The disciples said to [him], “Master, why are you laughing at [our]
>prayer
> > of
> > thanksgiving? We have done what is right.”
> > He answered and said to them, “I am not laughing at you. are not
>doing
> > this because of your own will but because it is through this that your
>god
> > [will be] praised.”
> > They said, “Master, you are […] the son of our god.”
> > Jesus said to them, “How do you know me? Truly [I] say to you, no
>generation
> > of the people that are among you will know me.”
> > …
> > “When Jesus observed their lack of [understanding, he said] to them,
>“Why
> > has this agitation led you to anger? Your god who is within you and
>[…]”
> > …
> > “Knowing that Judas was reflecting upon something that was exalted,
>Jesus
> > said to him,
> > “Step away from the others and I shall tell you the mysteries of the
>kingdom.
> > ”
> >
> >
> >
> > Jesus seems to be mocking their “bread eating” ritual by noting that
>it’s
> > putting them in touch with a different god.  Judas, on the other hand,
>gets
> > favored and enters into “conversation” with Jesus because only he
>rightfully
> > identifies him.  As you know, different species of Amanitas look pretty
> > similar, and even when you find the right (psychoactive) one, they’re
>notoriously
> > hard to get a psychedelic trip out of.  Maybe this difficulty is
>what’s
> > contributing to their “praising of another god.”
> >
> >
> >
> > “A great angel, the enlightened divine Self-Generated, emerged from
>the
> > cloud.”
> >
> >
> >
> > Self-generated?  From the cloud?  Self-generation is unavoidable for a
> > Creator god, but this “great angel” was brought into being by a
>greater power.
> > Why would the text run the risk of coming across as self-contradictory
>by
> > dubbing him/her/it “self-created?”  This odd, quasi-incorrect
>description of the
> > angel sounds like a traditional mythic mushroom reference to me (i.e.,
>no
> > visible seed, springing up in the wake of clouds).
> >
> >
> >
> > I’m skeptical myself, but it’s worth thinking about.  In other news,
>the
> > postering is going really well on Long Island, and I’ll be getting
>started on
> > the NYU campus area soon as well (assuming no one else has hit it
>yet).  I’ve
> > got some more things to talk about, both related to the march and the
>Ibogaine
> > book, so I’ll talk to you soon.
> >
> > -Bill
> >
> > Here’s the NYT story:
> >
> > April 6, 2006
> > ‘Gospel of Judas’ Surfaces After 1,700 Years
> > By JOHN NOBLE WILFORD and LAURIE GOODSTEIN
> >
> > An early Christian manuscript, including the only known text of what
> > is known as the Gospel of Judas, has surfaced after 1,700 years. The
> > text gives new insights into the relationship of Jesus and the
> > disciple who betrayed him, scholars reported today. In this version,
> > Jesus asked Judas, as a close friend, to sell him out to the
> > authorities, telling Judas he will “exceed” the other disciples by
> > doing so.
> >
> > Though some theologians have hypothesized this, scholars who have
> > studied the new-found text said, this is the first time an ancient
> > document defends the idea.
> >
> > The discovery in the desert of Egypt of the leather-bound papyrus
> > manuscript, and now its translation, was announced by the National
> > Geographic Society at a news conference in Washington. The 26-page
> > Judas text is said to be a copy in Coptic, made around A. D. 300, of
> > the original Gospel of Judas, written in Greek the century before.
> >
> > Terry Garcia, an executive vice president of the geographic society,
> > said the manuscript, or codex, is considered by scholars and
> > scientists to be the most significant ancient, nonbiblical text to be
> > found in the past 60 years.
> >
> > “The codex has been authenticated as a genuine work of ancient
> > Christian apocryphal literature,” Mr. Garcia said, citing extensive
> > tests of radiocarbon dating, ink analysis and multispectral imaging
> > and studies of the script and linguistic style. The ink, for example,
> > was consistent with ink of that era, and there was no evidence of
> > multiple rewriting.
> >
> > “This is absolutely typical of ancient Coptic manuscripts,” said
> > Stephen Emmel, professor of Coptic studies at the University of
> > Munster in Germany. “I am completely convinced.”
> >
> > The most revealing passages in the Judas manuscript begins, “The
> > secret account of the revelation that Jesus spoke in conversation
> > with Judas Iscariot during a week, three days before he celebrated
> > Passover.”
> >
> > The account goes on to relate that Jesus refers to the other
> > disciples, telling Judas “you will exceed all of them. For you will
> > sacrifice the man that clothes me.” By that, scholars familiar with
> > Gnostic thinking said, Jesus meant that by helping him get rid of his
> > physical flesh, Judas will act to liberate the true spiritual self or
> > divine being within Jesus.
> >
> > Unlike the accounts in the New Testament Gospels of Matthew, Mark,
> > Luke and John, the anonymous author of the Gospel of Judas believed
> > that Judas Iscariot alone among the 12 disciples understood the
> > meaning of Jesus’ teachings and acceded to his will. In the diversity
> > of early Christian thought, a group known as Gnostics believed in a
> > secret knowledge of how people could escape the prisons of their
> > material bodies and return to the spiritual realm from which they came.
> >
> > Elaine Pagels, a professor of religion at Princeton who specializes
> > in studies of the Gnostics, said in a statement, “These discoveries
> > are exploding the myth of a monolithic religion, and demonstrating
> > how diverse — and fascinating — the early Christian movement
>really
> > was.”
> >
> > The Gospel of Judas is only one of many texts discovered in the last
> > 65 years, including the gospels of Thomas, Mary Magdalene and Philip,
> > believed to be written by Gnostics.
> >
> > The Gnostics’ beliefs were often viewed by bishops and early church
> > leaders as unorthodox, and they were frequently denounced as
> > heretics. The discoveries of Gnostic texts have shaken up Biblical
> > scholarship by revealing the diversity of beliefs and practices among
> > early followers of Jesus.
> >
> > As the findings have trickled down to churches and universities, they
> > have produced a new generation of Christians who now regard the Bible
> > not as the literal word of God, but as a product of historical and
> > political forces that determined which texts should be included in
> > the canon, and which edited out.
> >
> > For that reason, the discoveries have proved deeply troubling for
> > many believers. The Gospel of Judas portrays Judas Iscariot not as a
> > betrayer of Jesus, but as his most favored disciple and willing
> > collaborator.
> >
> > Scholars say that they have long been on the lookout for the Gospel
> > of Judas because of a reference to what was probably an early version
> > of it in a text called Against Heresies, written by Irenaeus, the
> > bishop of Lyons, about the year 180.
> >
> > Irenaeus was a hunter of heretics, and no friend of the Gnostics. He
> > wrote, “They produce a fictitious history of this kind, which they
> > style the Gospel of Judas.”
> >
> > Karen L. King, a professor of the history of early Christianity at
> > Harvard Divinity School, and an expert in Gnosticism who has not yet
> > read the manuscript released today, said that the Gospel of Judas may
> > well reflect the kinds of debates that arose in the second and third
> > century among Christians.
> >
> > “You can see how early Christians could say, if Jesus’s death was all
> > part of God’s plan, then Judas’s betrayal was part of God’s plan,”
> > said Ms. King, the author of several books on the Gospel of Mary. “So
> > what does that make Judas? Is he the betrayer, or the facilitator of
> > salvation, the guy who makes the crucifixion possible?”
> >
> > At least one scholar said the new manuscript does not contain
> > anything dramatic that would change or undermine traditional
> > understanding of the Bible. James M. Robinson, a retired professor of
> > Coptic studies at Claremont Graduate University, was the general
> > editor of the English edition of the Nag Hammadi library, a
> > collection of Gnostic documents discovered in Egypt in 1945.
> >
> > “Correctly understood, there’s nothing undermining about the Gospel
> > of Judas,” Mr. Robinson said in a telephone interview. He said that
> > the New Testament gospels of John and Mark both contain passages that
> > suggest that Jesus not only picked Judas to betray him, but actually
> > encouraged Judas to hand him over to those he knew would crucify him.
> >
> > Mr. Robinson’s book, “The Secrets of Judas: The Story of the
> > Misunderstood Disciple and his Lost Gospel” (Harper San Francisco,
> > April 2006), predicts the contents of the Gospel of Judas based on
> > his knowledge of Gnostic and Coptic texts, even though he was not
> > part of the team of researchers working on the document.
> >
> > The Egyptian copy of the gospel was written on 13 sheets of papyrus,
> > both front and back, and found in a multitude of brittle fragments.
> >
> > Rudolphe Kasser, a Swiss scholar of Coptic studies, directed the team
> > that reconstructed and translated the script. The effort, organized
> > by the National Geographic, was supported by Maecenas Foundation for
> > Ancient Art, in Basel, Switzerland, and the Waitt Institute for
> > Historical Discovery, an American nonprofit organization for the
> > application of technology in historical and scientific projects.
> >
> > The entire 66-page codex also contains a text titled James (also
> > known as First Apocalypse of James), a letter by Peter and a text of
> > what scholars are provisionally calling Book of Allogenes.
> >
> > Discovered in the 1970’s in a cavern near El Minya, Egypt, the
> > document circulated for years among antiquities dealers in Egypt,
> > then Europe and finally in the United States. It moldered in a safe-
> > deposit box at a bank in Hicksville, N. Y., for 16 years before being
> > bought in 2000 by a Zurich dealer, Frieda Nussberger-Tchacos. The
> > manuscript was given the name Codex Tchacos.
> >
> > When attempts to resell the codex failed, Ms. Nussberger-Tchacos
> > turned it over to the Maecenas Foundation for conservation and
> > translation.
> >
> > Mr. Robinson said that an Egyptian antiquities dealer offered to sell
> > him the document in 1983 for $3 million, but that he could not raise
> > the money. He criticized the scholars now associated with the
> > project, some of whom are his former students, because he said they
> > violated an agreement made years ago by Coptic scholars that new
> > discoveries should be made accessible to all qualified scholars.
> >
> > The manuscript will ultimately be returned to Egypt, where it was
> > discovered, and housed in the Coptic Museum in Cairo.
> >
> > Ted Waitt, the founder and former chief executive of Gateway, said
> > that his foundation, the Waitt Institute for Historical Discovery,
> > gave the National Geographic Society a grant of more than $1 million
> > to restore and preserve the manuscript and make it available to the
> > public.
> >
> > ” I didn’t know a whole lot until I got into this about the early
> > days of Christianity. It was just extremely fascinating to me,” Mr.
> > Waitt said in a telephone interview. He said he had no motivation
> > other than being fascinated by the finding. He said that after the
> > document was carbon dated and the ink tested, procedures his
> > foundation paid for, he had no question about its authenticity. “You
> > can potentially question the translation and the interpretation, he
> > said, but you can’t fake something like this. It would be impossible.”
> >
> >
> >
> >
>

_________________________________________________________________
Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today it’s FREE!
http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. Make PC-to-Phone Calls to the US (and 30+ countries) for 2¢/min or less.

From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] NEW DRUG CP(OT!!)
Date: April 10, 2006 at 8:52:25 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

LMAO! I went back and read the experiences and now I know it is a hoax! Come on people!! Are you that fucking hard up that you would inject cat pee?!! I hope not!
One way I know it is a hoax, reading Boobs Mefeely said they went to pharmacy bought 1ml insulin syringe then emptied contents and then drew up cat pee! Never bought an insulin syringe already loaded with something from pharmacy.
In fact my respect for vaults has substantially lessened due to this shit!
Callie
From: “pascall roland” <pascal-roland@hotmail.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] Quest. to Dana: hermaline- Shah initiation
Date: April 10, 2006 at 3:03:32 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Dear Dana,

if not wrong hermaline can be extracted from a plant known in Persian as Esfand and til day used here by many people to purify & protect themsleves and their environment ( Esfand as a dried plant is used as incense ). Every home keeps some Esfand to perform purification when necessary.

Question: where did you learn that the Persian Shah used hermaline for the initiation? Which Shah and what kind of initiation?

thks/rgds

  1. Roland

From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Fwd: Gospel of Judas
Date: Sun, 9 Apr 2006 14:00:31 EDT

Dana,

Just curious as to the language of your attached gospel_of_judas_iscariot.pdf
as it breaks down the narrative into “scenes.” Is that language customary?

Howard

In a message dated 4/8/06 4:24:39 PM, dana@phantom.com writes:

>
> New gnostic gospel supports passover plot account, thereby buttressing the
> role of Grail contents with neuro-protective properties as a forensic
> explanation of what happened in the crucifixion and resurrection.
>
> I now believe that ibogaine may actually have been one of the ingredients in
> the Grail mixture– because it makes the body  totally numb and able to take
> being pierced without pain or flinching, and because it’s been patented for
> ischemia, which is a kind of global stroke effect brought on during
> Crucifixion by gradual suffocation caused by the windpipe being cut off when the
> crucified would lean forward trying to rest. Other ingredients would have been
> some harmaline and possibly cannabis, but not ephedra, which would be
> unnecessary with the iboga.
>
> If Egyptian mummies have been found with traces of cocaine and nicotine
> (from the Americas), they couldn’t have had that much trouble getting a bit of
> root-bark from the sub-Sahara. Iboga originates with the Pygmy, who supposedly
> had it before anyone else. Somewhere I heard or read (and maybe some one on
> the list can provide the citation.) that the Pygmy first had it in the Rift
> Valley, 20,000 years ago.
>
> So the theory is that harmaline was involved in the initiation of the
> Persian Shah, iboga in the ordination of the Pharaoh. Christ claimed the mantel of
> both, of course.
>
> Dana/cnw
>
>
> Begin forwarded message:
>
>
> From: “William T. Brennan” <wtb208@stern.nyu.edu>
> Date: April 6, 2006 10:40:49 PM EDT
> To: dana@phantom.com
> Subject: Gospel of Judas
>
> Hi Dana,
>
> I hope all’s been well this week.
>
> You may have heard by now, but the Gospel of Judas has recently surfaced.
> I’ve copied the NYT story below and have attached a translation of the
> gospel.  The unquestionably gnostic thread running through it seems like it’s right
> up your alley.
>
> Predictably, I’ve combed through it looking for potential mushroom
> references that line up with other more obvious gnostic mushroom references (Heinrich,
> 2002) and feel like I’ve found a few.  Here they are with some notes:
>
>
>
> “Often he did not appear to his disciples as himself, but he was found among
> them as a child.”
>
>
>
> I would love to find out what Greek term was used for “child,” and to get
> into its etymology.  I’m pretty sure that it’s in Greek mythology (note that
> this gospel was originally written in Greek) that mushrooms are often
> referred to in childish terms (e.g., the “little ones”).  This line is especially
> suspect since the rest of the passage makes no reference to Jesus as a child.
>
>
>
> One day he was with his disciples in Judea, and he found them gathered
> together and seated in pious observance. When he [approached] his disciples, [34]
> gathered >>together and seated and offering a prayer of thanksgiving over the
> bread, [he] laughed.
> The disciples said to [him], “Master, why are you laughing at [our] prayer
> of
> thanksgiving? We have done what is right.”
> He answered and said to them, “I am not laughing at you. <You> are not doing
> this because of your own will but because it is through this that your god
> [will be] praised.”
> They said, “Master, you are […] the son of our god.”
> Jesus said to them, “How do you know me? Truly [I] say to you, no generation
> of the people that are among you will know me.”
> …
> “When Jesus observed their lack of [understanding, he said] to them, “Why
> has this agitation led you to anger? Your god who is within you and […]”
> …
> “Knowing that Judas was reflecting upon something that was exalted, Jesus
> said to him,
> “Step away from the others and I shall tell you the mysteries of the kingdom.
> ”
>
>
>
> Jesus seems to be mocking their “bread eating” ritual by noting that it’s
> putting them in touch with a different god.  Judas, on the other hand, gets
> favored and enters into “conversation” with Jesus because only he rightfully
> identifies him.  As you know, different species of Amanitas look pretty
> similar, and even when you find the right (psychoactive) one, they’re notoriously
> hard to get a psychedelic trip out of.  Maybe this difficulty is what’s
> contributing to their “praising of another god.”
>
>
>
> “A great angel, the enlightened divine Self-Generated, emerged from the
> cloud.”
>
>
>
> Self-generated?  From the cloud?  Self-generation is unavoidable for a
> Creator god, but this “great angel” was brought into being by a greater power.
> Why would the text run the risk of coming across as self-contradictory by
> dubbing him/her/it “self-created?”  This odd, quasi-incorrect description of the
> angel sounds like a traditional mythic mushroom reference to me (i.e., no
> visible seed, springing up in the wake of clouds).
>
>
>
> I’m skeptical myself, but it’s worth thinking about.  In other news, the
> postering is going really well on Long Island, and I’ll be getting started on
> the NYU campus area soon as well (assuming no one else has hit it yet).  I’ve
> got some more things to talk about, both related to the march and the Ibogaine
> book, so I’ll talk to you soon.
>
> -Bill
>
> Here’s the NYT story:
>
> April 6, 2006
> ‘Gospel of Judas’ Surfaces After 1,700 Years
> By JOHN NOBLE WILFORD and LAURIE GOODSTEIN
>
> An early Christian manuscript, including the only known text of what
> is known as the Gospel of Judas, has surfaced after 1,700 years. The
> text gives new insights into the relationship of Jesus and the
> disciple who betrayed him, scholars reported today. In this version,
> Jesus asked Judas, as a close friend, to sell him out to the
> authorities, telling Judas he will “exceed” the other disciples by
> doing so.
>
> Though some theologians have hypothesized this, scholars who have
> studied the new-found text said, this is the first time an ancient
> document defends the idea.
>
> The discovery in the desert of Egypt of the leather-bound papyrus
> manuscript, and now its translation, was announced by the National
> Geographic Society at a news conference in Washington. The 26-page
> Judas text is said to be a copy in Coptic, made around A. D. 300, of
> the original Gospel of Judas, written in Greek the century before.
>
> Terry Garcia, an executive vice president of the geographic society,
> said the manuscript, or codex, is considered by scholars and
> scientists to be the most significant ancient, nonbiblical text to be
> found in the past 60 years.
>
> “The codex has been authenticated as a genuine work of ancient
> Christian apocryphal literature,” Mr. Garcia said, citing extensive
> tests of radiocarbon dating, ink analysis and multispectral imaging
> and studies of the script and linguistic style. The ink, for example,
> was consistent with ink of that era, and there was no evidence of
> multiple rewriting.
>
> “This is absolutely typical of ancient Coptic manuscripts,” said
> Stephen Emmel, professor of Coptic studies at the University of
> Munster in Germany. “I am completely convinced.”
>
> The most revealing passages in the Judas manuscript begins, “The
> secret account of the revelation that Jesus spoke in conversation
> with Judas Iscariot during a week, three days before he celebrated
> Passover.”
>
> The account goes on to relate that Jesus refers to the other
> disciples, telling Judas “you will exceed all of them. For you will
> sacrifice the man that clothes me.” By that, scholars familiar with
> Gnostic thinking said, Jesus meant that by helping him get rid of his
> physical flesh, Judas will act to liberate the true spiritual self or
> divine being within Jesus.
>
> Unlike the accounts in the New Testament Gospels of Matthew, Mark,
> Luke and John, the anonymous author of the Gospel of Judas believed
> that Judas Iscariot alone among the 12 disciples understood the
> meaning of Jesus’ teachings and acceded to his will. In the diversity
> of early Christian thought, a group known as Gnostics believed in a
> secret knowledge of how people could escape the prisons of their
> material bodies and return to the spiritual realm from which they came.
>
> Elaine Pagels, a professor of religion at Princeton who specializes
> in studies of the Gnostics, said in a statement, “These discoveries
> are exploding the myth of a monolithic religion, and demonstrating
> how diverse — and fascinating — the early Christian movement really
> was.”
>
> The Gospel of Judas is only one of many texts discovered in the last
> 65 years, including the gospels of Thomas, Mary Magdalene and Philip,
> believed to be written by Gnostics.
>
> The Gnostics’ beliefs were often viewed by bishops and early church
> leaders as unorthodox, and they were frequently denounced as
> heretics. The discoveries of Gnostic texts have shaken up Biblical
> scholarship by revealing the diversity of beliefs and practices among
> early followers of Jesus.
>
> As the findings have trickled down to churches and universities, they
> have produced a new generation of Christians who now regard the Bible
> not as the literal word of God, but as a product of historical and
> political forces that determined which texts should be included in
> the canon, and which edited out.
>
> For that reason, the discoveries have proved deeply troubling for
> many believers. The Gospel of Judas portrays Judas Iscariot not as a
> betrayer of Jesus, but as his most favored disciple and willing
> collaborator.
>
> Scholars say that they have long been on the lookout for the Gospel
> of Judas because of a reference to what was probably an early version
> of it in a text called Against Heresies, written by Irenaeus, the
> bishop of Lyons, about the year 180.
>
> Irenaeus was a hunter of heretics, and no friend of the Gnostics. He
> wrote, “They produce a fictitious history of this kind, which they
> style the Gospel of Judas.”
>
> Karen L. King, a professor of the history of early Christianity at
> Harvard Divinity School, and an expert in Gnosticism who has not yet
> read the manuscript released today, said that the Gospel of Judas may
> well reflect the kinds of debates that arose in the second and third
> century among Christians.
>
> “You can see how early Christians could say, if Jesus’s death was all
> part of God’s plan, then Judas’s betrayal was part of God’s plan,”
> said Ms. King, the author of several books on the Gospel of Mary. “So
> what does that make Judas? Is he the betrayer, or the facilitator of
> salvation, the guy who makes the crucifixion possible?”
>
> At least one scholar said the new manuscript does not contain
> anything dramatic that would change or undermine traditional
> understanding of the Bible. James M. Robinson, a retired professor of
> Coptic studies at Claremont Graduate University, was the general
> editor of the English edition of the Nag Hammadi library, a
> collection of Gnostic documents discovered in Egypt in 1945.
>
> “Correctly understood, there’s nothing undermining about the Gospel
> of Judas,” Mr. Robinson said in a telephone interview. He said that
> the New Testament gospels of John and Mark both contain passages that
> suggest that Jesus not only picked Judas to betray him, but actually
> encouraged Judas to hand him over to those he knew would crucify him.
>
> Mr. Robinson’s book, “The Secrets of Judas: The Story of the
> Misunderstood Disciple and his Lost Gospel” (Harper San Francisco,
> April 2006), predicts the contents of the Gospel of Judas based on
> his knowledge of Gnostic and Coptic texts, even though he was not
> part of the team of researchers working on the document.
>
> The Egyptian copy of the gospel was written on 13 sheets of papyrus,
> both front and back, and found in a multitude of brittle fragments.
>
> Rudolphe Kasser, a Swiss scholar of Coptic studies, directed the team
> that reconstructed and translated the script. The effort, organized
> by the National Geographic, was supported by Maecenas Foundation for
> Ancient Art, in Basel, Switzerland, and the Waitt Institute for
> Historical Discovery, an American nonprofit organization for the
> application of technology in historical and scientific projects.
>
> The entire 66-page codex also contains a text titled James (also
> known as First Apocalypse of James), a letter by Peter and a text of
> what scholars are provisionally calling Book of Allogenes.
>
> Discovered in the 1970’s in a cavern near El Minya, Egypt, the
> document circulated for years among antiquities dealers in Egypt,
> then Europe and finally in the United States. It moldered in a safe-
> deposit box at a bank in Hicksville, N. Y., for 16 years before being
> bought in 2000 by a Zurich dealer, Frieda Nussberger-Tchacos. The
> manuscript was given the name Codex Tchacos.
>
> When attempts to resell the codex failed, Ms. Nussberger-Tchacos
> turned it over to the Maecenas Foundation for conservation and
> translation.
>
> Mr. Robinson said that an Egyptian antiquities dealer offered to sell
> him the document in 1983 for $3 million, but that he could not raise
> the money. He criticized the scholars now associated with the
> project, some of whom are his former students, because he said they
> violated an agreement made years ago by Coptic scholars that new
> discoveries should be made accessible to all qualified scholars.
>
> The manuscript will ultimately be returned to Egypt, where it was
> discovered, and housed in the Coptic Museum in Cairo.
>
> Ted Waitt, the founder and former chief executive of Gateway, said
> that his foundation, the Waitt Institute for Historical Discovery,
> gave the National Geographic Society a grant of more than $1 million
> to restore and preserve the manuscript and make it available to the
> public.
>
> ” I didn’t know a whole lot until I got into this about the early
> days of Christianity. It was just extremely fascinating to me,” Mr.
> Waitt said in a telephone interview. He said he had no motivation
> other than being fascinated by the finding. He said that after the
> document was carbon dated and the ink tested, procedures his
> foundation paid for, he had no question about its authenticity. “You
> can potentially question the translation and the interpretation, he
> said, but you can’t fake something like this. It would be impossible.”
>
>
>
>

_________________________________________________________________
Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today it’s FREE! http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: “Paul Brookshaw” <jiggy9@hotmail.co.uk>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Fwd: Back to Preston
Date: April 10, 2006 at 4:59:10 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Wow Preston and I thought you might of had some savy. Photos on your web site.
You shouldn’t of done it. OK The people were only trying to help you. That is what I meant OK!!!
Better than a Lie cos it was the truth, but you shouldn’t of put it on the Web, in Photos. That is what I ment by you couldn’t have it for yourself, so you ripped it down.
OK?
You made me angry and also others that tryed to help you.
You should of thought twice mate, cos I doubt if you will be welcome for quite a while.
As Sara’ said, it is like inviting the wrong people to your house. How would you like me to say, publish something of you that was personnal like. It would hurt, wouldn’t it.
Don saw what you did, when he said with suprise. Der, nice one Preston.
Now you see, now you understand.
You should of asked, at least.
Sara’ was only trying to help you and you chucked it in her face.
Not nice or clever, was it.
Didn’t have much love or compassion, and deffinitaly no Grace.
How often do you eat Sunday dinner without Gravy? Eh!!!
You should make amends mate, or is it just a carear thing with you.
Gready?
Bless you bro and I pray you see now. Once bitten twice shy. Twice bitten, Foolish?
I suppose I can leave you now to sort things yourself.
Understood you can’t roll back the clock and change what you did, but you could be sincere for once in your life. Surley, Just once. Be a Gentleman.

Bless you Preston Peet and I pray you get it sorted:)

Paul;)’

_________________________________________________________________
Are you using the latest version of MSN Messenger? Download MSN Messenger 7.5 today! http://join.msn.com/messenger/overview

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: Kirk <captkirk@clear.net.nz>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Kirk!
Date: April 10, 2006 at 5:56:06 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Thinking he who rants loudest and rudest could be the one who has lost the
plot.
Why are you attacking people so rudely on this list for them having an
opinion that differs from yours?
Think you need to question why that is.
Debate is cool, but you’re just being rude and not allowing for any other
opinion bar your own tunnel visioned one.
I hope YOU get to see the full picture one day.
In the meantime, I wish you well.
Kirk

—–Original Message—–
From: Paul Brookshaw [mailto:jiggy9@hotmail.co.uk]
Sent: Tuesday, 11 April 2006 9:23 a.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Kirk!

Hello Kirk,
I think what yoiu just said is crap. Pure egotistical rubbish.
Methadone lol
Let me tell you where i have just come from. OK
For the last 6 years I had been taking, 80mg of Methadone +, half a gram of
Scag, 600mg of Dihydracodine. 40mg of Certraline, 150mg of Valium, plus
little tickles in between of Moggys and Tamazapam. A bottle of vodka, plus 4

special brews. 3000mg of Gabapentin, 15 grms of weed, plus tobacco, and now
i am clean.
What do you mean by Methadone eh?
I took Iboga to stop myself from self anialation. You took it cos you whee
to masculine.
Get a life.
Seriously. You both deserve one another.
You’ve lost the plot completely.
Another one bites the dust. lolol>’~+

Blessings be with you and may you see fully one day. lolol
That is why I seem to moke OK?
Get it sorted.

Bless you Paul:)’

_________________________________________________________________
Are you using the latest version of MSN Messenger? Download MSN Messenger
7.5 today! http://join.msn.com/messenger/overview

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html
[%]

\]=———————————————————————=[/


No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.385 / Virus Database: 268.4.0/306 – Release Date: 04/09/2006


No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.385 / Virus Database: 268.4.0/306 – Release Date: 04/09/2006

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: “Paul Brookshaw” <jiggy9@hotmail.co.uk>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Kirk!
Date: April 10, 2006 at 5:22:45 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hello Kirk,
I think what yoiu just said is crap. Pure egotistical rubbish.
Methadone lol
Let me tell you where i have just come from. OK
For the last 6 years I had been taking, 80mg of Methadone +, half a gram of Scag, 600mg of Dihydracodine. 40mg of Certraline, 150mg of Valium, plus little tickles in between of Moggys and Tamazapam. A bottle of vodka, plus 4 special brews. 3000mg of Gabapentin, 15 grms of weed, plus tobacco, and now i am clean.
What do you mean by Methadone eh?
I took Iboga to stop myself from self anialation. You took it cos you whee to masculine.
Get a life.
Seriously. You both deserve one another.
You’ve lost the plot completely.
Another one bites the dust. lolol>’~+

Blessings be with you and may you see fully one day. lolol
That is why I seem to moke OK?
Get it sorted.

Bless you Paul:)’

_________________________________________________________________
Are you using the latest version of MSN Messenger? Download MSN Messenger 7.5 today! http://join.msn.com/messenger/overview

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: “Paul Brookshaw” <jiggy9@hotmail.co.uk>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Kirk.
Date: April 10, 2006 at 5:08:15 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hello Kirk,
I think what you just said is rubbish.
I have just give up in the last four months, 80mg of Meth adone, Half a grm of Scag. 600mg of Dihydracodine, 150mg of Valium, plus 40mg of Certraline and 3000mg of Gabapentin.
Now where I am at is no doubt natural, cos I feel great and very alive. You got it all wrong with me Darling OK?
I don’t like games for the sake of them.
Bless you Paul;)x

From: Kirk <captkirk@clear.net.nz>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] For Preston:’~///Pray Read mate!!!
Date: Sat, 08 Apr 2006 07:25:33 +1200

The point of Iboga is so that a Man may experience his Feminine senses and
the Lady the Masculine senses. At the end of the day we are all individuals.
To not tell people the truth or expose them in public is sinful. You should
know from your previous experience, that most of the crap of giving up
METHADONE AND SCAG AND MORPHINE, is FEAR.!!!

Hi Paul
I have to disagree with your theory of man/fem woman/masculine that’s just
far too black and white my masculine side is way out of balance I needed to
experience my feminine side more….. thus apparently, according to some why
I have all this stuff manifesting on the right hand side.
As for giving up something that CAN have a stabilising effect for an
individual when they are not ready can be more harmful and set someone
back….I’m referring to methadone here…but then again it’s a different
scene here I had a good experience this time round on it.

I don’t have it all sussed, and I know you don’t either.  You feel a little
tunnel visioned……

OH well, Onward Thru the Fog!!!!!

With love n respect to all
Cappen koiky xxx


No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.385 / Virus Database: 268.4.0/304 – Release Date: 04/07/2006

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

_________________________________________________________________
Are you using the latest version of MSN Messenger? Download MSN Messenger 7.5 today! http://join.msn.com/messenger/overview

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: Crooked Eye <iboganaut420@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] NEW DRUG CP(OT!!)
Date: April 10, 2006 at 3:24:21 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

You should read the experiences, they have the extraction method and everything..  The trip reports are classic!!

CallieMimosa@aol.com wrote:
In a message dated 4/10/2006 9:20:10 A.M. Central Standard Time, iboganaut420@yahoo.com writes:
http://www.thoughtspam.com/cloudy/

Check it out!!  CP or 5-MeO-W!!

CE

This is a joke, right?
If it is not a joke and is really cat urine, how in heavens name do you collect the pee pee? LMAO at the visuals!!
Callie

Talk is cheap. Use Yahoo! Messenger to make PC-to-Phone calls. Great rates starting at 1¢/min.

From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] NEW DRUG CP(OT!!)
Date: April 10, 2006 at 10:49:56 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 4/10/2006 9:20:10 A.M. Central Standard Time, iboganaut420@yahoo.com writes:
http://www.thoughtspam.com/cloudy/

Check it out!!  CP or 5-MeO-W!!

CE

This is a joke, right?
If it is not a joke and is really cat urine, how in heavens name do you collect the pee pee? LMAO at the visuals!!
Callie

From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] The list.Preston, all. My Prayers for you.
Date: April 10, 2006 at 10:23:32 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I tell you this you
really don’t want to take Iboga in the winter, lolol better off in Bora Bora<

See Paul, I get nervous when people make such statements as the one I’ve cut and pasted by you here, as though they are established fact for everyone under the sun, because I know from personal experience of at least one exception to at least the above generalized statement, culled from within your facinating rant (I too have been reminded of those fundamentalist religious tracts while reading your recent posts Paul- and I avidly collect those religious tract things, having a number of grocery bags full of them due to fundamentalist types constantly feeling they have to help me save my soul).
I not only took my ibogaine during the Winter (more than once too, but I’m thinking specifically of the last time, at Sara’s) but I was very much looking forward to taking it during the Winter, and felt it was a much better idea than waiting for warming weather or going to Mexico (or Bora Bora) to take it. Can’t really explain why, but I felt it right to take it in the coldest, most blustery months of Winter there are, and still feel it was a great idea to do so.

Drop the Drugs now<…

“into a small envelope (or a large one as the need may be) and mail them to me, and I promise I will definitely, for sure, dispose of them in a sanitary and permenant fashion.”

—–
“If God dropped acid, would he see people?”  ~Steven Wright

Peace, love and lotsof respect.
Preston Peet
ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor Underground- the Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations, Astonishing Archaeology and Hidden History
Editor Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Columnist HighTimes mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —– From: “Paul Brookshaw” <jiggy9@hotmail.co.uk>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Monday, April 10, 2006 4:24 AM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] The list.Preston, all. My Prayers for you.

Ok little Preston,
You got me cracked up mate and rolling on the floor lolol
I only call you small as a term of endearment though my friend lol
You make me cry also bro cos, just you know. lolol
Unsane or insane. Your question bro.
Get up in the morning, put on your favorite disguise.
Make sure you where your Sunglasses, so no one sees your eyes.
Eat well sleep well, have fun. I forgive you. That’s what matters. I only pray others can. 🙂
They will. Time is a good healer.
How is the Guitar playing coming along then. I tried to learn that damn thing for nearly six years only got cramp and sore fingers. oh plus blisters.
Used to play the Trumpet and Cornet before my habit stole all my teeth lolol
I just read your reply to my mail and, bless you bro you grounded me. lolol
Welcome home to the King and Queen. Myself and my wife have been staying a long weekend in the local Country Club.
You got the idea mate. Sauna Jacuzzi, pool, sunbeds. I tell you this you really don’t want to take Iboga in the winter, lolol better off in Bora Bora lolol
I off for a steam bath in a bout to hours then a massage. Hey bro, food and warmth deffinetley beats SCAG, any day. Plus it is cheaper.
I only niggle you for the baccy cos it will kill you.
Ok I hear you say you are no stranger to pain, but it ain’t no nice way to die.
That is why I hassle you so. OK
Drowning in your own Sputtum and Vomit and blood. No air. I think I would tear my throat out. I know why I started, my problem was I could not stop.lolol
I am extremely Glad and happy for today that I gave up when I did. The food is amazing. The taste is like jewelry in my mind. That was why I stopped smoking. To make the most of the Iboga. I am only sorry I did not drop the Benzos first, as my head has been in the eye of a Hurricane for many months now.
One point of note to any one reading this and considering taking Iboga. Opiates OK your choice. It is all your choice at the end of the day.
My experience is that.
Benzos should be dropped before Iboga as the withdrawal of the said is one hell of a bitch to try and control. It teaches you pure mind control though. That is for sure. lolol
I haven’t been able to drop the Benzos From 150mg 8 months ago untill 1.2mg three days back.
Ripped but able to now control my body with exercise.
Benzos suck they are no bodies friend. It ain’t really what they do to your head, they mash your body without you even realising. They crush your Spirit.
And like Meth, they stop your bodies ability to simulate, Mentally, physically and ultimately Spiritually.
So for the likes of Ron. Who maybe reads the posts. Drop the Benzos fist. I done it before and didn’t really notice them, cos I was slugging to much Meth. The Meth and Opiates in general are easier to beat than Valium.
I had the help of Iboga and I can tell you I did it the wrong way round. Never mind home safe and sound now lolol
Wow that was some Storm lolol
Comprende’

The Sunbed helps to get your body functioning, but because you drop the Benzos, you take off. ZAP.
Everything reversed.
Addicts NEED Sunlight, water and food. Lots of and if possible all the time.
We took and take so much crap, mental physical and so blinding our Spirits, that we don’t even get a chance in one life time. To stop and see who we really are.
I told a good friend of my concept that we where all just Monkeys without tales. And if we had the chance we would hang upside down in the trees all day and eat fruit and make love.
He said he didn’t believe that, but still believed in |God. That confused me, cos he, as a Christian should have known that the Book of GENESIS is about creation of the Animals in the Kingdom and that MAn was one of them, set apart, too to stand in a different hierarchy. Given rule over all the animals of the earth and allowed to partake of all the good fruits of the field.
This is what we cannot see as addicts. Are impulse to just switch off is greater than our natural creativity. So we lose contact with are primeval self. Man is an Animal. The such as like the monkey cos he enjoys being lazy Humours himself. Eats lot and gets Horny. Without the drugs you get a much better kick out of life. Plus also you get the freedom to be you, and not a slave to the System. Whoever you like to be as long as you are clean.
True and have respect.
At the Country Club we stayed at this weekend. I was dressed in tatty clothes and my torn leather jacket and I still got respect from everyone. I guess they thought maybe I was a bit eccentric, eating in the restaraunt, a chicken with my fingers.
I did notice the people who smoked didn’t have so much gaiety. Where not so happy.
Three three course dinners and lots of fussing yourself gets you back in your body.
So my prayer for the list this day is:

Father, our Creator, I pray that you give unto us this day all that we may require in strength and Honour so that we can learn who are enemies are and give us the Power to overcome them . Now and forevermore. Amen!

Bless you all for the Spiritual Sand paper. Drop the Drugs now and carry through and unto Glory. lolol
Bliss beyond FEAR:)
Have good day people, be good now.
Bless you all Paul:)’

_________________________________________________________________
Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today – it’s FREE! http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Fwd: Back to Danna’ Scrolls Roll. Paper, Rock or Gold.
Date: April 10, 2006 at 10:40:09 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Preston, You are not getting cut any slack lately are you? lol! Hang in there though! What matters most is our own conscious! Love you!
Hugs!
Callie

From: Crooked Eye <iboganaut420@yahoo.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] NEW DRUG CP(OT!!)
Date: April 10, 2006 at 3:11:53 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

http://www.thoughtspam.com/cloudy/

Check it out!!  CP or 5-MeO-W!!

CE

How low will we go? Check out Yahoo! Messenger’s low PC-to-Phone call rates.

From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Fwd: Back to Danna’ Scrolls Roll. Paper, Rock or Gold.
Date: April 10, 2006 at 9:52:28 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

OK Judge and be Judged. I Judge you Preston, cos you lied and tryed to hurt
people who tryed to help you by tearing down a gift given freely.<

Excuse me? When in the heck did I ever lie on this list?
What in the world are you going on about Paul?

Oh Foolish Notions of Grandeur!<

LOL! In light of the entire preceding message, this has simply got to be the punch line, right?

—–
“If God dropped acid, would he see people?”  ~Steven Wright

Peace, love and lotsof respect.
Preston Peet
ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor Underground- the Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations, Astonishing Archaeology and Hidden History
Editor Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Columnist HighTimes mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —– From: “Paul Brookshaw” <jiggy9@hotmail.co.uk>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Monday, April 10, 2006 3:05 AM
Subject: [Ibogaine] Fwd: Back to Danna’ Scrolls Roll. Paper, Rock or Gold.

Sorry people,
But this is all just a load of Garbage.
I say this cos, all of the work done here goes no where. Why spend the whole of your time trying to understand something that in the end would and is totally ungraspable. If the said scrolls are authentic, then they are just another story of someone-else’s interpretation of what they saw at the time. What does it matter if, the Pygmies used Iboga or any other kind of plant or Shroom so that they could play Physiological and Spiritual Ping Pong.
Sorry people you get bogged down in all that Archaeology and you are going to get one to a million different stories. It is just called the Philosopher’s Song. Poets wrote Sonnets and the so called Men of Wisdom wrote.
But at the end of the day they are just stories. Just like the bible or any other religious tract.
The truth of the matter should be,. The way you conduct your life and how you relate to other People. All this time and effort is a complete waste.
Danna, why don’t you put all of this energy you seem to have to work for the good of people instead of trying to make yourself seem important to everyone.
Eye seeing and Men pleasing is just a crutch to hold onto out of insecurity.
Get a life and get your head straight mate.
If you really want to know about life, live it instead of studying it. All this study is just like Warfare. Where does it get you.
I suppose it makes you feel important, but the importance of being is what you should be exploring. You have the wrong keys mate.
You are out balanced by, Jnana. Knowledge, when the true path to enlightenment stand in Samadhi, Union of the Six Paths. We would as individuals never be able to attain all of these paths in one hit,(one mortal life) but, Mate you got to take stock.
You have forgotten about the now and listening to let your body talk to you. You only seem to want to Dazzle People with Knowledge, that does not make you clever, cos, at the end of the day what can you use all that crap for. You can’t eat it and you can’t take it with you when you die.
OK it makes for interesting reading, but what are you supposed to be doing with your life? Why did you take Iboga if you only wanted to get a head full of stories.
You lost the original reason why God the Creator places all the herbs on this Rock. So that Man could experience another state of consciousness other than what he perceived as being boring old reality. Possibly the reason why God Created Man. So that He, they, could experience something other than themselves. MultiFaceted, must be quite a strain to live with for all eternity lolol.
Danna, I only write out of a pure conscience to try and get you to stop the internal struggle you seem to be living with.
You have great Jnana, but you have forgotten about the rest of the paths that one must encounter so a to remain complete and well balanced.
Numbers. Why don’t you try learning to stick with, 1,3,4,6,7,8,9, and the Glory of Twelve. Keep it simple. You have a lot of 1s. Ego, and one hell of a lot of fives:) Arrogant Pride!!!
Some of the 4 in you gets your daily tasks done, but where is your 6, 7, 8, 9 and of cause 12.
You profess one Hell of a lot and whinge and wine deeply.
You need to get back to your Roots Danna. Get back to who you really are and not what you think you may want to be.
Your thought is lost in vain imaginings. Quite enjoyable know doubt for your EGO, but where is your brotherly love compassion and of cause Charity. For Charity my friend carries no Chain, but you seem to carry many, plus balls of Iron. Why do you bog yourself down with things that you will never get the answers for. When you should be looking inside of your own self for the answers not getting stuck in the rubbish of Man’s Stupid Mind.
Scientist only make money out of being able to work out complex solutions to simple problems.
Blow the world to pieces and leave Man here without the 20th Century succor and you will just be left with the MAN. Hunter gatherer by Nature and only needs to fight to protect his family. The world is supposed to be your family mate. How come you keep fighting it?
Many Great Civilizations have totally self destructed because of toooooooooo much input. Take the GATHS for instants. They where so proud that they5 couldn’t even make love properly. lolol
The Egyptians used Deception to get the job done and the Babylonians definitely Smashed the world as we now know it into its present form and chaos of destruction. Time, Money, Slavery(Deceptions) Cats, female, looking in two directions at the same time.
Please, I pray come out of the dark place you are in and only look to yourself. Self love is not selfish. It only took me 43 years to learn that one lolol
I ain’t no great scholar, but nearly 4 years at LEEDS UNIVERSITY studying, Math, Chemistry, Physics, Biology and Socialology at a Higher National Degree, taught me shit. (Got me in a few crazy Labs and well Mirrored:, but;) Nothing that I could eat drink or use to survive if all this crap comes down tomorrow. Other than my Gut instinct and slef taught skills.
You have totally hit number one with your bullet, bro, but totally missed the Mark:)~~~’
Bosha’ you lost it in knowledge.
I give to you and pray you sit upon your creator the gifts of the Yogi. Who sort after self enlightenment through discipline and Obedience, and also pray that you learn to channel your energies in ways more constructive than just getting a big head and a proud Heart.
You have asked out of your pain for a long long time for someone to tell you where you are going wrong, but out of your own fear you are misguiding yourself.
Pray sit, forget about Knowledge for the sake of knowledge and see and hear, taste and breath, feel and love  cry and laugh and sing and Pray. Cast down your pride and Anger. Learn to forgive yourself.
Question? Do you Smoke Tobbacco? As you seem to have the Spirit of the Deceiver within you.
Just be MAN. PEACE and of cause love shall conquer all your fears.
As guidance you should be looking at your self as the whole MAN, and not trying to edify yourself in the eyes of your fellow MAN, for this is Vanity. Warfare again for the sake of Warfare.
Why do you always want to be the CONTROL FREAK. IS THIS A CAREER THING WITH YOU OR IS IT JUST YOUR WAY OF TRYING TO HIDE YOUR OWN INSECURITIES???
You are as BAD and TERRIBLE as little Preston.
(OK Judge and be Judged. I Judge you Preston, cos you lied and tryed to hurt people who tryed to help you by tearing down a gift given freely. Sow the Seeds and Reap the Harvest. You can judge me, if you like. I am only a simple Man. Once misguided. I am clean, now).
Scurrying around like a headless ANT. Trying to gather grains of Sugar before the Sun comes out completely and melts them. What you seek has no form, no metal no Power. And so no light. GOT IT!!! STOP. BE STILL. LISTEN. SIT THE MONKEY IN YOU HEAD DOWN AND JUST BE!!! Shalom.’ Tell him to put all his toys away in the proper place and teach him to play with only one toy at a time. Then you will be able to use your energies, positively for your own edification and not the Pomp you seem to seek.
Pray remember WORRY FOR THE SAKE OF WORRY IS A SIN. TALLY FOR THE SAKE OF TALLY IS A WASTE OF TIME. WARFARE????? COME ON DANNA GET IT SORTED MATE. PEOPLE LOOK TO YOU FOR GUIDANCE AND YOU BOGGLE THIER MINDS.
NO WONDER THEY MADE IBOGA ILLIGAL IN THE USA. ;)’
ARN’T THERE ENOUGH EGOTISTICAL MEGLOMAINIACS IN THIS WORLD WITHOUT YOU ADDING TO THE CHAOS?
Look my friend.
A Gift, CONCEPTION, Given not taken, but received Freely  as a child. Never lost only blinded.

WEAVE AND WOVE, TUCK AND ROLL, CAST AND HAUL, WINNOW AND GLEAN. TOOLS!!!
TURN AND LAY THE OTHER WAY DANNA BEAL, TURN AND LAY. WRAP AND WHIP. TUCK AND SPLICE. GRAFT. And grow. Sow and Reap. You have forgotten Grace my friend.
Sunday dinner is to dry without the sweet savour of Gravy. It is like trying to eat the Dead butts in the ash tray, with no water, way too dry.

Rile for the sake of Rile.
You are like a foolish Young Lion with a Thorn in your Paw, Sorry and Sore, but all you may do is lick your Pad.
For you do not have any Tweezers for to remove the Thorn. So many Tools you do not know what to use.
You have Sorely Treated yourself my Friend. I laugh. Ah! you make me cry my friend. Why do you Tarry So??? Pray tell.?
Why?
You can’t have it all mate it ain’t yours to give and it ain’t yours to have.
Why would anyone, in one mortal life, seek such immense Knowledge of the Kingdom Other than God.
You are a Man DANNA not a god.
There is and was only room for one ever. We are but humble servants of the King.
You lost the plot mate. For sure!!!

Oh Foolish Notions of Grandeur!

One said Truth is.

To be Or not !!!         Your question mate not mine!!!
Yashawe’ I go to pray as the Sun has Risen.
Blessings be with you and yours this day. And Pray my friend Pray.
Shalom Paul;)’
Ah DAnna, You brake my Heart Man.~’

_________________________________________________________________
Are you using the latest version of MSN Messenger? Download MSN Messenger 7.5 today! http://join.msn.com/messenger/overview

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: “Paul Brookshaw” <jiggy9@hotmail.co.uk>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Howard and Sara’
Date: April 10, 2006 at 5:01:03 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Great to read some truth at last.
From my experience Naltrexone, blocks the reseptors and then scares the living hell out of you. lol
The only reason a lot of people elapse after Nalorex is that it has bad side effects, like walking pains in the head and kidneys, and also does nothing for the etadent withdrawl.
I couldn’t eat properly for nearly a year.
Nice work people. I only pray my effort was of service. Maybe open a few eyes.
And take down some barriers.
You got to be the strongest person you know to take Iboga, but that is good cos you are the person you are really seeking. Bless you both for you help, compassion and assistance.
Work to do Bless Paul:)

From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] Sara on Dutch TV – NOVA ibogaine report
Date: Thu, 30 Mar 2006 01:06:51 EST

In a message dated 3/25/06 11:40:15 AM, sara119@xs4all.nl writes:

> this is on tonight here about the Iboga treatment.
>
>
> best wishes,
>
> Sara
>
> http://www.novatv.nl/index.cfm?ln=nl&fuseaction=videoaudio.details&
> reportage_id=4220
>
>
I asked one of my Dutch speaking friends to monitor the program and I
received a glowing report that follows. It would be very positive if the Dutch were
to pick up the research. Very good work Sara.

Howard
*******************
This is a very positive pro-Ibogaine documentary. Nova also holds high
regard in terms of scientific reporting – it’s excellent – you can be really
stoked about this.

Leenders and Fromberg simply explain that yes Ibogaine really works, there
is no doubt about it and Fromberg says it even has been proven in
pharmacological research done in Rotterdam (not sure which research he’s
referring to). When asked about the “shady treatment settings” like the ones
with Sara, Leenders says these settings are not shady at all. Where there is
demand there is supply, and if the government doesn’t provide it other
people will. He also says that Ibogaine is not a recreational substance,
that the experience is really intense and should be done under proper
guidance.

It is the Ministry of Health that come out as the bad guys for not studying
Ibogaine. The Ministry admits comparing Ibogaine to
Naltrexone-under-narcosis and they are saying that since Naltrexone didn’t
work with cravings then Ibogaine would be doubtable in this department as
well. They are somewhat vaguely saying that this now might be a wrong
assumption.

The documentary ends on the note saying that Ibogaine is not being research
in Holland (and it really is making the Dutch government look like idiots
because they mention this) and that it IS being researched in other
countries, like the USA and that conclusive, positive information is
expected within the next few years as to how/why it works.

Wow! Very, very cool documentary. Be stoked, very stoked! Leenders and
Fromberg are 100+% behind Ibogaine, nothing but super-positive stuff from
them; they are your allies.

_________________________________________________________________
Be the first to hear what’s new at MSN – sign up to our free newsletters! http://www.msn.co.uk/newsletters

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: Kirk <captkirk@clear.net.nz>
Subject: [Ibogaine] re:allan
Date: April 10, 2006 at 4:36:46 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Billy

P.S. Where is Allan?

Allan is taking some time out. I’m sure he’ll be back and feeling heaps better.
Kirk

—-Original Message Follows—-
From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Fwd: Gospel of Judas
Date: Sun, 9 Apr 2006 05:53:20 -0400
MIME-Version: 1.0
Received: from tomts38-srv.bellnexxia.net ([209.226.175.95]) by
bay0-pamc1-f8.bay0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Sun, 9
Apr 2006 03:32:47 -0700
Received: from toip5.bellnexxia.net ([209.226.175.88])          by
tomts38-srv.bellnexxia.net          (InterMail vM.5.01.06.13
201-253-122-130-113-20050324) with ESMTP          id
<20060409103246.GCF29863.tomts38-srv.bellnexxia.net@toip5.bellnexxia.net>
for <billjohnson6@sympatico.ca>; Sun, 9 Apr 2006 06:32:46 -0400
Received: from tanelorn.mindvox.com (HELO mail.mindvox.com)
([64.124.179.118])  by toip5.bellnexxia.net with ESMTP; 09 Apr 2006 06:32:44
-0400
Received: (qmail 15851 invoked by uid 513); 9 Apr 2006 06:32:39 -0400
Received: (qmail 15845 invoked by uid 514); 9 Apr 2006 06:32:39 -0400
X-Message-Info: moY6YVwXQ45ZcOaSIwVF1xweggprdJ9XGJxY3lh6xM0=
Mailing-List: contact ibogaine-help@mindvox.com; run by ezmlm
Precedence: bulk
X-No-Archive: yes
List-Post: <mailto:ibogaine@mindvox.com>
List-Help: <mailto:ibogaine-help@mindvox.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:ibogaine-unsubscribe@mindvox.com>
List-Subscribe: <mailto:ibogaine-subscribe@mindvox.com>
Delivered-To: mailing list ibogaine@mindvox.com
X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.5 required=4.0
X-Antivirus-MYDOMAIN-Mail-From: ptpeet@nyc.rr.com via tanelorn.mindvox.com
X-Antivirus-MYDOMAIN: 1.25-st-qms (Clear:RC:0(24.29.109.6):SA:0(-2.5/4.0):.
Processed in 9.11593 secs Process 15836)
References: <b174c92d1dd8f.443598f1@stern.nyu.edu>
<928AB0D7-BA8D-4674-9133-D3E6CC5FA559@phantom.com>
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180
X-Virus-Scanned: Symantec AntiVirus Scan Engine
Return-Path: ibogaine-return-23484-billjohnson6=sympatico.ca@mindvox.com
X-OriginalArrivalTime: 09 Apr 2006 10:32:47.0504 (UTC)
FILETIME=[F1CA1900:01C65BC0]

“an obvious end-times deception” is how an in-law put his reaction to my
sending him a link about this Gospel of Judas.
Egad.
Fundamentalist christians preaching “god this, god that, jesus this, jesus
that,” scare me as much as the Taliban ever would.
—–
“If God dropped acid, would he see people?”  ~Steven Wright

Peace, love and lotsof respect.
Preston Peet
ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor Underground- the Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations,
Astonishing Archaeology and Hidden History
Editor Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Columnist HighTimes mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —– From: Dana Beal
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Saturday, April 08, 2006 4:23 PM
Subject: [Ibogaine] Fwd: Gospel of Judas

New gnostic gospel supports passover plot account, thereby buttressing the
role of Grail contents with neuro-protective properties as a forensic
explanation of what happened in the crucifixion and resurrection.

I now believe that ibogaine may actually have been one of the ingredients in
the Grail mixture– because it makes the body? totally numb and able to take
being pierced without pain or flinching, and because it’s been patented for
ischemia, which is a kind of global stroke effect brought on during
Crucifixion by gradual suffocation caused by the windpipe being cut off when
the crucified would lean forward trying to rest. Other ingredients would
have been some harmaline and possibly cannabis, but not ephedra, which would
be unnecessary with the iboga.

If Egyptian mummies have been found with traces of cocaine and nicotine
(from the Americas), they couldn’t have had that much trouble getting a bit
of root-bark from the sub-Sahara. Iboga originates with the Pygmy, who
supposedly had it before anyone else. Somewhere I heard or read?(and maybe
some one on the list can provide the citation.)?that the Pygmy first had it
in the Rift Valley, 20,000 years ago.?

So the theory is that harmaline was involved in the initiation of the
Persian Shah, iboga in the ordination of the Pharaoh. Christ claimed the
mantel of both, of course.

Dana/cnw?

Begin forwarded message:

From: “William T. Brennan” <wtb208@stern.nyu.edu>
Date: April 6, 2006 10:40:49 PM EDT
To: dana@phantom.com
Subject: Gospel of Judas

Hi Dana,

I hope all’s been well this week.

You may have heard by now, but the Gospel of Judas has recently surfaced.?
I’ve copied the NYT story below and have attached a translation of the
gospel.? The unquestionably gnostic thread running through it seems like
it’s right up your alley. ?

Predictably, I’ve combed through it looking for potential mushroom
references that line up with other more obvious gnostic mushroom references
(Heinrich, 2002) and feel like I’ve found a few.? Here they are with some
notes:

?Often he did not appear to his disciples as himself, but he was found among
them as a child.?

I would love to find out what Greek term was used for ?child,? and to get
into its etymology.? I?m pretty sure that it?s in Greek mythology (note that
this gospel was originally written in Greek) that mushrooms are often
referred to in childish terms (e.g., the ?little ones?).? This line is
especially suspect since the rest of the passage makes no reference to Jesus
as a child.

One day he was with his disciples in Judea, and he found them gathered
together and seated in pious observance. When he [approached] his disciples,
[34] gathered >>together and seated and offering a prayer of thanksgiving
over the bread, [he] laughed.
The disciples said to [him], ?Master, why are you laughing at [our] prayer
of
thanksgiving? We have done what is right.?
He answered and said to them, ?I am not laughing at you. <You> are not doing
this because of your own will but because it is through this that your god
[will be] praised.?
They said, ?Master, you are [?] the son of our god.?
Jesus said to them, ?How do you know me? Truly [I] say to you, no generation
of the people that are among you will know me.?

?When Jesus observed their lack of [understanding, he said] to them, ?Why
has this agitation led you to anger? Your god who is within you and [?]?

?Knowing that Judas was reflecting upon something that was exalted, Jesus
said to him,
?Step away from the others and I shall tell you the mysteries of the
kingdom.?

Jesus seems to be mocking their ?bread eating? ritual by noting that it?s
putting them in touch with a different god.? Judas, on the other hand, gets
favored and enters into ?conversation? with Jesus because only he rightfully
identifies him.? As you know, different species of Amanitas look pretty
similar, and even when you find the right (psychoactive) one, they?re
notoriously hard to get a psychedelic trip out of.? Maybe this difficulty is
what?s contributing to their ?praising of another god.?

?A great angel, the enlightened divine Self-Generated, emerged from the
cloud.?

Self-generated?? From the cloud?? Self-generation is unavoidable for a
Creator god, but this ?great angel? was brought into being by a greater
power.? Why would the text run the risk of coming across as
self-contradictory by dubbing him/her/it ?self-created??? This odd,
quasi-incorrect description of the angel sounds like a traditional mythic
mushroom reference to me (i.e., no visible seed, springing up in the wake of
clouds).

I’m skeptical myself, but it’s worth thinking about.? In other news, the
postering is going really well on Long Island, and I’ll be getting started
on the NYU campus area soon as well (assuming no one else has hit it yet).?
I’ve got some more things to talk about, both related to the march and the
Ibogaine book, so I’ll talk to you soon. ?

-Bill

Here’s the NYT story:

April 6, 2006
‘Gospel of Judas’ Surfaces After 1,700 Years
By JOHN NOBLE WILFORD and LAURIE GOODSTEIN

An early Christian manuscript, including the only known text of what?
is known as the Gospel of Judas, has surfaced after 1,700 years. The?
text gives new insights into the relationship of Jesus and the?
disciple who betrayed him, scholars reported today. In this version,?
Jesus asked Judas, as a close friend, to sell him out to the?
authorities, telling Judas he will “exceed” the other disciples by?
doing so.

Though some theologians have hypothesized this, scholars who have?
studied the new-found text said, this is the first time an ancient?
document defends the idea.

The discovery in the desert of Egypt of the leather-bound papyrus?
manuscript, and now its translation, was announced by the National?
Geographic Society at a news conference in Washington. The 26-page?
Judas text is said to be a copy in Coptic, made around A. D. 300, of?
the original Gospel of Judas, written in Greek the century before.

Terry Garcia, an executive vice president of the geographic society,?
said the manuscript, or codex, is considered by scholars and?
scientists to be the most significant ancient, nonbiblical text to be?
found in the past 60 years.

“The codex has been authenticated as a genuine work of ancient?
Christian apocryphal literature,” Mr. Garcia said, citing extensive?
tests of radiocarbon dating, ink analysis and multispectral imaging?
and studies of the script and linguistic style. The ink, for example,?
was consistent with ink of that era, and there was no evidence of?
multiple rewriting.

“This is absolutely typical of ancient Coptic manuscripts,” said?
Stephen Emmel, professor of Coptic studies at the University of?
Munster in Germany. “I am completely convinced.”

The most revealing passages in the Judas manuscript begins, “The?
secret account of the revelation that Jesus spoke in conversation?
with Judas Iscariot during a week, three days before he celebrated?
Passover.”

The account goes on to relate that Jesus refers to the other?
disciples, telling Judas “you will exceed all of them. For you will?
sacrifice the man that clothes me.” By that, scholars familiar with?
Gnostic thinking said, Jesus meant that by helping him get rid of his?
physical flesh, Judas will act to liberate the true spiritual self or?
divine being within Jesus.

Unlike the accounts in the New Testament Gospels of Matthew, Mark,?
Luke and John, the anonymous author of the Gospel of Judas believed?
that Judas Iscariot alone among the 12 disciples understood the?
meaning of Jesus’ teachings and acceded to his will. In the diversity?
of early Christian thought, a group known as Gnostics believed in a?
secret knowledge of how people could escape the prisons of their?
material bodies and return to the spiritual realm from which they came.

Elaine Pagels, a professor of religion at Princeton who specializes?
in studies of the Gnostics, said in a statement, “These discoveries?
are exploding the myth of a monolithic religion, and demonstrating?
how diverse ? and fascinating ? the early Christian movement really?
was.”

The Gospel of Judas is only one of many texts discovered in the last?
65 years, including the gospels of Thomas, Mary Magdalene and Philip,?
believed to be written by Gnostics.

The Gnostics’ beliefs were often viewed by bishops and early church?
leaders as unorthodox, and they were frequently denounced as?
heretics. The discoveries of Gnostic texts have shaken up Biblical?
scholarship by revealing the diversity of beliefs and practices among?
early followers of Jesus.

As the findings have trickled down to churches and universities, they?
have produced a new generation of Christians who now regard the Bible?
not as the literal word of God, but as a product of historical and?
political forces that determined which texts should be included in?
the canon, and which edited out.

For that reason, the discoveries have proved deeply troubling for?
many believers. The Gospel of Judas portrays Judas Iscariot not as a?
betrayer of Jesus, but as his most favored disciple and willing?
collaborator.

Scholars say that they have long been on the lookout for the Gospel?
of Judas because of a reference to what was probably an early version?
of it in a text called Against Heresies, written by Irenaeus, the?
bishop of Lyons, about the year 180.

Irenaeus was a hunter of heretics, and no friend of the Gnostics. He?
wrote, “They produce a fictitious history of this kind, which they?
style the Gospel of Judas.”

Karen L. King, a professor of the history of early Christianity at?
Harvard Divinity School, and an expert in Gnosticism who has not yet?
read the manuscript released today, said that the Gospel of Judas may?
well reflect the kinds of debates that arose in the second and third?
century among Christians.

“You can see how early Christians could say, if Jesus’s death was all?
part of God’s plan, then Judas’s betrayal was part of God’s plan,”?
said Ms. King, the author of several books on the Gospel of Mary. “So?
what does that make Judas? Is he the betrayer, or the facilitator of?
salvation, the guy who makes the crucifixion possible?”

At least one scholar said the new manuscript does not contain?
anything dramatic that would change or undermine traditional?
understanding of the Bible. James M. Robinson, a retired professor of?
Coptic studies at Claremont Graduate University, was the general?
editor of the English edition of the Nag Hammadi library, a?
collection of Gnostic documents discovered in Egypt in 1945.

“Correctly understood, there’s nothing undermining about the Gospel?
of Judas,” Mr. Robinson said in a telephone interview. He said that?
the New Testament gospels of John and Mark both contain passages that?
suggest that Jesus not only picked Judas to betray him, but actually?
encouraged Judas to hand him over to those he knew would crucify him.

Mr. Robinson’s book, “The Secrets of Judas: The Story of the?
Misunderstood Disciple and his Lost Gospel” (Harper San Francisco,?
April 2006), predicts the contents of the Gospel of Judas based on?
his knowledge of Gnostic and Coptic texts, even though he was not?
part of the team of researchers working on the document.

The Egyptian copy of the gospel was written on 13 sheets of papyrus,?
both front and back, and found in a multitude of brittle fragments.

Rudolphe Kasser, a Swiss scholar of Coptic studies, directed the team?
that reconstructed and translated the script. The effort, organized?
by the National Geographic, was supported by Maecenas Foundation for?
Ancient Art, in Basel, Switzerland, and the Waitt Institute for?
Historical Discovery, an American nonprofit organization for the?
application of technology in historical and scientific projects.

The entire 66-page codex also contains a text titled James (also?
known as First Apocalypse of James), a letter by Peter and a text of?
what scholars are provisionally calling Book of Allogenes.

Discovered in the 1970’s in a cavern near El Minya, Egypt, the?
document circulated for years among antiquities dealers in Egypt,?
then Europe and finally in the United States. It moldered in a safe-
deposit box at a bank in Hicksville, N. Y., for 16 years before being?
bought in 2000 by a Zurich dealer, Frieda Nussberger-Tchacos. The?
manuscript was given the name Codex Tchacos.

When attempts to resell the codex failed, Ms. Nussberger-Tchacos?
turned it over to the Maecenas Foundation for conservation and?
translation.

Mr. Robinson said that an Egyptian antiquities dealer offered to sell?
him the document in 1983 for $3 million, but that he could not raise?
the money. He criticized the scholars now associated with the?
project, some of whom are his former students, because he said they?
violated an agreement made years ago by Coptic scholars that new?
discoveries should be made accessible to all qualified scholars.

The manuscript will ultimately be returned to Egypt, where it was?
discovered, and housed in the Coptic Museum in Cairo.

Ted Waitt, the founder and former chief executive of Gateway, said?
that his foundation, the Waitt Institute for Historical Discovery,?
gave the National Geographic Society a grant of more than $1 million?
to restore and preserve the manuscript and make it available to the?
public.

” I didn’t know a whole lot until I got into this about the early?
days of Christianity. It was just extremely fascinating to me,” Mr.?
Waitt said in a telephone interview. He said he had no motivation?
other than being fascinated by the finding. He said that after the?
document was carbon dated and the ink tested, procedures his?
foundation paid for, he had no question about its authenticity. “You?
can potentially question the translation and the interpretation, he?
said, but you can’t fake something like this. It would be impossible.”

New gnostic gospel supports passover plot account, thereby
buttressing the role of Grail contents with neuro-protective
properties as a forensic explanation of what happened in the
crucifixion and resurrection.

I now believe that ibogaine may actually have been one of the
ingredients in the Grail mixture– because it makes the body  totally
numb and able to take being pierced without pain or flinching, and
because it’s been patented for ischemia, which is a kind of global
stroke effect brought on during Crucifixion by gradual suffocation
caused by the windpipe being cut off when the crucified would lean
forward trying to rest. Other ingredients would have been some
harmaline and possibly cannabis, but not ephedra, which would be
unnecessary with the iboga.

If Egyptian mummies have been found with traces of cocaine and
nicotine (from the Americas), they couldn’t have had that much
trouble getting a bit of root-bark from the sub-Sahara. Iboga
originates with the Pygmy, who supposedly had it before anyone else.
Somewhere I heard or read (and maybe some one on the list can provide
the citation.) that the Pygmy first had it in the Rift Valley, 20,000
years ago.

So the theory is that harmaline was involved in the initiation of the
Persian Shah, iboga in the ordination of the Pharaoh. Christ claimed
the mantel of both, of course.

Dana/cnw

Begin forwarded message:

From: “William T. Brennan” <wtb208@stern.nyu.edu>
Date: April 6, 2006 10:40:49 PM EDT
To: dana@phantom.com
Subject: Gospel of Judas

Hi Dana,

I hope all’s been well this week.

You may have heard by now, but the Gospel of Judas has recently
surfaced.  I’ve copied the NYT story below and have attached a
translation of the gospel.  The unquestionably gnostic thread
running through it seems like it’s right up your alley.

Predictably, I’ve combed through it looking for potential mushroom
references that line up with other more obvious gnostic mushroom
references (Heinrich, 2002) and feel like I’ve found a few.  Here
they are with some notes:

“Often he did not appear to his disciples as himself, but he was
found among them as a child.”

I would love to find out what Greek term was used for “child,”
and to get into its etymology.  I’m pretty sure that it’s in
Greek mythology (note that this gospel was originally written in
Greek) that mushrooms are often referred to in childish terms
(e.g., the “little ones”).  This line is especially suspect
since the rest of the passage makes no reference to Jesus as a child.

One day he was with his disciples in Judea, and he found them
gathered together and seated in pious observance. When he
[approached] his disciples, [34] gathered >>together and seated
and offering a prayer of thanksgiving over the bread, [he] laughed.
The disciples said to [him], “Master, why are you laughing at
[our] prayer of
thanksgiving? We have done what is right.”
He answered and said to them, “I am not laughing at you. <You>
are not doing this because of your own will but because it is
through this that your god [will be] praised.”
They said, “Master, you are […] the son of our god.”
Jesus said to them, “How do you know me? Truly [I] say to you,
no generation of the people that are among you will know me.”

“When Jesus observed their lack of [understanding, he said] to
them, “Why has this agitation led you to anger? Your god who is
within you and […]”

“Knowing that Judas was reflecting upon something that was
exalted, Jesus said to him,
“Step away from the others and I shall tell you the mysteries of
the kingdom.”

Jesus seems to be mocking their “bread eating” ritual by noting
that it’s putting them in touch with a different god.  Judas, on
the other hand, gets favored and enters into “conversation” with
Jesus because only he rightfully identifies him.  As you know,
different species of Amanitas look pretty similar, and even when
you find the right (psychoactive) one, they’re notoriously hard to
get a psychedelic trip out of.  Maybe this difficulty is what’s
contributing to their “praising of another god.”

“A great angel, the enlightened divine Self-Generated, emerged
from the cloud.”

Self-generated?  From the cloud?  Self-generation is unavoidable
for a Creator god, but this “great angel” was brought into being
by a greater power.  Why would the text run the risk of coming
across as self-contradictory by dubbing him/her/it “self-
created?”  This odd, quasi-incorrect description of the angel
sounds like a traditional mythic mushroom reference to me (i.e., no
visible seed, springing up in the wake of clouds).

I’m skeptical myself, but it’s worth thinking about.  In other
news, the postering is going really well on Long Island, and I’ll
be getting started on the NYU campus area soon as well (assuming no
one else has hit it yet).  I’ve got some more things to talk about,
both related to the march and the Ibogaine book, so I’ll talk to
you soon.

-Bill

Here’s the NYT story:

April 6, 2006
‘Gospel of Judas’ Surfaces After 1,700 Years
By JOHN NOBLE WILFORD and LAURIE GOODSTEIN

An early Christian manuscript, including the only known text of what
is known as the Gospel of Judas, has surfaced after 1,700 years. The
text gives new insights into the relationship of Jesus and the
disciple who betrayed him, scholars reported today. In this version,
Jesus asked Judas, as a close friend, to sell him out to the
authorities, telling Judas he will “exceed” the other disciples by
doing so.

Though some theologians have hypothesized this, scholars who have
studied the new-found text said, this is the first time an ancient
document defends the idea.

The discovery in the desert of Egypt of the leather-bound papyrus
manuscript, and now its translation, was announced by the National
Geographic Society at a news conference in Washington. The 26-page
Judas text is said to be a copy in Coptic, made around A. D. 300, of
the original Gospel of Judas, written in Greek the century before.

Terry Garcia, an executive vice president of the geographic society,
said the manuscript, or codex, is considered by scholars and
scientists to be the most significant ancient, nonbiblical text to be
found in the past 60 years.

“The codex has been authenticated as a genuine work of ancient
Christian apocryphal literature,” Mr. Garcia said, citing extensive
tests of radiocarbon dating, ink analysis and multispectral imaging
and studies of the script and linguistic style. The ink, for example,
was consistent with ink of that era, and there was no evidence of
multiple rewriting.

“This is absolutely typical of ancient Coptic manuscripts,” said
Stephen Emmel, professor of Coptic studies at the University of
Munster in Germany. “I am completely convinced.”

The most revealing passages in the Judas manuscript begins, “The
secret account of the revelation that Jesus spoke in conversation
with Judas Iscariot during a week, three days before he celebrated
Passover.”

The account goes on to relate that Jesus refers to the other
disciples, telling Judas “you will exceed all of them. For you will
sacrifice the man that clothes me.” By that, scholars familiar with
Gnostic thinking said, Jesus meant that by helping him get rid of his
physical flesh, Judas will act to liberate the true spiritual self or
divine being within Jesus.

Unlike the accounts in the New Testament Gospels of Matthew, Mark,
Luke and John, the anonymous author of the Gospel of Judas believed
that Judas Iscariot alone among the 12 disciples understood the
meaning of Jesus’ teachings and acceded to his will. In the diversity
of early Christian thought, a group known as Gnostics believed in a
secret knowledge of how people could escape the prisons of their
material bodies and return to the spiritual realm from which they
came.

Elaine Pagels, a professor of religion at Princeton who specializes
in studies of the Gnostics, said in a statement, “These discoveries
are exploding the myth of a monolithic religion, and demonstrating
how diverse — and fascinating — the early Christian movement
really
was.”

The Gospel of Judas is only one of many texts discovered in the last
65 years, including the gospels of Thomas, Mary Magdalene and Philip,
believed to be written by Gnostics.

The Gnostics’ beliefs were often viewed by bishops and early church
leaders as unorthodox, and they were frequently denounced as
heretics. The discoveries of Gnostic texts have shaken up Biblical
scholarship by revealing the diversity of beliefs and practices among
early followers of Jesus.

As the findings have trickled down to churches and universities, they
have produced a new generation of Christians who now regard the Bible
not as the literal word of God, but as a product of historical and
political forces that determined which texts should be included in
the canon, and which edited out.

For that reason, the discoveries have proved deeply troubling for
many believers. The Gospel of Judas portrays Judas Iscariot not as a
betrayer of Jesus, but as his most favored disciple and willing
collaborator.

Scholars say that they have long been on the lookout for the Gospel
of Judas because of a reference to what was probably an early version
of it in a text called Against Heresies, written by Irenaeus, the
bishop of Lyons, about the year 180.

Irenaeus was a hunter of heretics, and no friend of the Gnostics. He
wrote, “They produce a fictitious history of this kind, which they
style the Gospel of Judas.”

Karen L. King, a professor of the history of early Christianity at
Harvard Divinity School, and an expert in Gnosticism who has not yet
read the manuscript released today, said that the Gospel of Judas may
well reflect the kinds of debates that arose in the second and third
century among Christians.

“You can see how early Christians could say, if Jesus’s death was all
part of God’s plan, then Judas’s betrayal was part of God’s plan,”
said Ms. King, the author of several books on the Gospel of Mary. “So
what does that make Judas? Is he the betrayer, or the facilitator of
salvation, the guy who makes the crucifixion possible?”

At least one scholar said the new manuscript does not contain
anything dramatic that would change or undermine traditional
understanding of the Bible. James M. Robinson, a retired professor of
Coptic studies at Claremont Graduate University, was the general
editor of the English edition of the Nag Hammadi library, a
collection of Gnostic documents discovered in Egypt in 1945.

“Correctly understood, there’s nothing undermining about the Gospel
of Judas,” Mr. Robinson said in a telephone interview. He said that
the New Testament gospels of John and Mark both contain passages that
suggest that Jesus not only picked Judas to betray him, but actually
encouraged Judas to hand him over to those he knew would crucify him.

Mr. Robinson’s book, “The Secrets of Judas: The Story of the
Misunderstood Disciple and his Lost Gospel” (Harper San Francisco,
April 2006), predicts the contents of the Gospel of Judas based on
his knowledge of Gnostic and Coptic texts, even though he was not
part of the team of researchers working on the document.

The Egyptian copy of the gospel was written on 13 sheets of papyrus,
both front and back, and found in a multitude of brittle fragments.

Rudolphe Kasser, a Swiss scholar of Coptic studies, directed the team
that reconstructed and translated the script. The effort, organized
by the National Geographic, was supported by Maecenas Foundation for
Ancient Art, in Basel, Switzerland, and the Waitt Institute for
Historical Discovery, an American nonprofit organization for the
application of technology in historical and scientific projects.

The entire 66-page codex also contains a text titled James (also
known as First Apocalypse of James), a letter by Peter and a text of
what scholars are provisionally calling Book of Allogenes.

Discovered in the 1970’s in a cavern near El Minya, Egypt, the
document circulated for years among antiquities dealers in Egypt,
then Europe and finally in the United States. It moldered in a safe-
deposit box at a bank in Hicksville, N. Y., for 16 years before being
bought in 2000 by a Zurich dealer, Frieda Nussberger-Tchacos. The
manuscript was given the name Codex Tchacos.

When attempts to resell the codex failed, Ms. Nussberger-Tchacos
turned it over to the Maecenas Foundation for conservation and
translation.

Mr. Robinson said that an Egyptian antiquities dealer offered to sell
him the document in 1983 for $3 million, but that he could not raise
the money. He criticized the scholars now associated with the
project, some of whom are his former students, because he said they
violated an agreement made years ago by Coptic scholars that new
discoveries should be made accessible to all qualified scholars.

The manuscript will ultimately be returned to Egypt, where it was
discovered, and housed in the Coptic Museum in Cairo.

Ted Waitt, the founder and former chief executive of Gateway, said
that his foundation, the Waitt Institute for Historical Discovery,
gave the National Geographic Society a grant of more than $1 million
to restore and preserve the manuscript and make it available to the
public.

” I didn’t know a whole lot until I got into this about the early
days of Christianity. It was just extremely fascinating to me,” Mr.
Waitt said in a telephone interview. He said he had no motivation
other than being fascinated by the finding. He said that after the
document was carbon dated and the ink tested, procedures his
foundation paid for, he had no question about its authenticity. “You
can potentially question the translation and the interpretation, he
said, but you can’t fake something like this. It would be impossible.”



/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html
[%]

\]=———————————————————————=[/

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/


No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.385 / Virus Database: 268.4.0/306 – Release Date: 04/09/2006


No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.385 / Virus Database: 268.4.0/306 – Release Date: 04/09/2006

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: “Paul Brookshaw” <jiggy9@hotmail.co.uk>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] The list.Preston, all. My Prayers for you.
Date: April 10, 2006 at 4:24:31 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Ok little Preston,
You got me cracked up mate and rolling on the floor lolol
I only call you small as a term of endearment though my friend lol
You make me cry also bro cos, just you know. lolol
Unsane or insane. Your question bro.
Get up in the morning, put on your favorite disguise.
Make sure you where your Sunglasses, so no one sees your eyes.
Eat well sleep well, have fun. I forgive you. That’s what matters. I only pray others can. 🙂
They will. Time is a good healer.
How is the Guitar playing coming along then. I tried to learn that damn thing for nearly six years only got cramp and sore fingers. oh plus blisters.
Used to play the Trumpet and Cornet before my habit stole all my teeth lolol
I just read your reply to my mail and, bless you bro you grounded me. lolol
Welcome home to the King and Queen. Myself and my wife have been staying a long weekend in the local Country Club.
You got the idea mate. Sauna Jacuzzi, pool, sunbeds. I tell you this you really don’t want to take Iboga in the winter, lolol better off in Bora Bora lolol
I off for a steam bath in a bout to hours then a massage. Hey bro, food and warmth deffinetley beats SCAG, any day. Plus it is cheaper.
I only niggle you for the baccy cos it will kill you.
Ok I hear you say you are no stranger to pain, but it ain’t no nice way to die.
That is why I hassle you so. OK
Drowning in your own Sputtum and Vomit and blood. No air. I think I would tear my throat out. I know why I started, my problem was I could not stop.lolol
I am extremely Glad and happy for today that I gave up when I did. The food is amazing. The taste is like jewelry in my mind. That was why I stopped smoking. To make the most of the Iboga. I am only sorry I did not drop the Benzos first, as my head has been in the eye of a Hurricane for many months now.
One point of note to any one reading this and considering taking Iboga. Opiates OK your choice. It is all your choice at the end of the day.
My experience is that.
Benzos should be dropped before Iboga as the withdrawal of the said is one hell of a bitch to try and control. It teaches you pure mind control though. That is for sure. lolol
I haven’t been able to drop the Benzos From 150mg 8 months ago untill 1.2mg three days back.
Ripped but able to now control my body with exercise.
Benzos suck they are no bodies friend. It ain’t really what they do to your head, they mash your body without you even realising. They crush your Spirit.
And like Meth, they stop your bodies ability to simulate, Mentally, physically and ultimately Spiritually.
So for the likes of Ron. Who maybe reads the posts. Drop the Benzos fist. I done it before and didn’t really notice them, cos I was slugging to much Meth. The Meth and Opiates in general are easier to beat than Valium.
I had the help of Iboga and I can tell you I did it the wrong way round. Never mind home safe and sound now lolol
Wow that was some Storm lolol
Comprende’

The Sunbed helps to get your body functioning, but because you drop the Benzos, you take off. ZAP.
Everything reversed.
Addicts NEED Sunlight, water and food. Lots of and if possible all the time.
We took and take so much crap, mental physical and so blinding our Spirits, that we don’t even get a chance in one life time. To stop and see who we really are.
I told a good friend of my concept that we where all just Monkeys without tales. And if we had the chance we would hang upside down in the trees all day and eat fruit and make love.
He said he didn’t believe that, but still believed in |God. That confused me, cos he, as a Christian should have known that the Book of GENESIS is about creation of the Animals in the Kingdom and that MAn was one of them, set apart, too to stand in a different hierarchy. Given rule over all the animals of the earth and allowed to partake of all the good fruits of the field.
This is what we cannot see as addicts. Are impulse to just switch off is greater than our natural creativity. So we lose contact with are primeval self. Man is an Animal. The such as like the monkey cos he enjoys being lazy Humours himself. Eats lot and gets Horny. Without the drugs you get a much better kick out of life. Plus also you get the freedom to be you, and not a slave to the System. Whoever you like to be as long as you are clean.
True and have respect.
At the Country Club we stayed at this weekend. I was dressed in tatty clothes and my torn leather jacket and I still got respect from everyone. I guess they thought maybe I was a bit eccentric, eating in the restaraunt, a chicken with my fingers.
I did notice the people who smoked didn’t have so much gaiety. Where not so happy.
Three three course dinners and lots of fussing yourself gets you back in your body.
So my prayer for the list this day is:

Father, our Creator, I pray that you give unto us this day all that we may require in strength and Honour so that we can learn who are enemies are and give us the Power to overcome them . Now and forevermore. Amen!

Bless you all for the Spiritual Sand paper. Drop the Drugs now and carry through and unto Glory. lolol
Bliss beyond FEAR:)
Have good day people, be good now.
Bless you all Paul:)’

_________________________________________________________________
Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today – it’s FREE! http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: “Paul Brookshaw” <jiggy9@hotmail.co.uk>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] this list is messed up!
Date: April 10, 2006 at 4:48:10 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Keep it simple people. we got enough trouble trying to breath lolol
Let alone swim through concrete lolol
Bless you all Paul :)’

From: “pascall roland” <pascal-roland@hotmail.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] this list is messed up!
Date: Tue, 04 Apr 2006 05:50:29 +0000

me too!

Callie, everytime you include keywords like Iran, etc… – like me now – yr big brother organisations overthere filter the correspondences.

but the send-receive delay should be related too a technical reason.

P.R.

From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] this list is messed up!
Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2006 14:34:06 EDT

I have been getting some messages from postmaster saying messages delayed
and/or undeliverable. Anyone else having this problem?
Some of the posts I am not getting. I read the replies you folks are  writing
but did not receive original message.
Callie

_________________________________________________________________
FREE pop-up blocking with the new MSN Toolbar – get it now! http://toolbar.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200415ave/direct/01/

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

_________________________________________________________________
The new MSN Search Toolbar now includes Desktop search! http://join.msn.com/toolbar/overview

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: “Paul Brookshaw” <jiggy9@hotmail.co.uk>
Subject: [Ibogaine] Fwd: Back to Danna’ Scrolls Roll. Paper, Rock or Gold.
Date: April 10, 2006 at 3:05:16 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Sorry people,
But this is all just a load of Garbage.
I say this cos, all of the work done here goes no where. Why spend the whole of your time trying to understand something that in the end would and is totally ungraspable. If the said scrolls are authentic, then they are just another story of someone-else’s interpretation of what they saw at the time. What does it matter if, the Pygmies used Iboga or any other kind of plant or Shroom so that they could play Physiological and Spiritual Ping Pong.
Sorry people you get bogged down in all that Archaeology and you are going to get one to a million different stories. It is just called the Philosopher’s Song. Poets wrote Sonnets and the so called Men of Wisdom wrote.
But at the end of the day they are just stories. Just like the bible or any other religious tract.
The truth of the matter should be,. The way you conduct your life and how you relate to other People. All this time and effort is a complete waste.
Danna, why don’t you put all of this energy you seem to have to work for the good of people instead of trying to make yourself seem important to everyone.
Eye seeing and Men pleasing is just a crutch to hold onto out of insecurity.
Get a life and get your head straight mate.
If you really want to know about life, live it instead of studying it. All this study is just like Warfare. Where does it get you.
I suppose it makes you feel important, but the importance of being is what you should be exploring. You have the wrong keys mate.
You are out balanced by, Jnana. Knowledge, when the true path to enlightenment stand in Samadhi, Union of the Six Paths. We would as individuals never be able to attain all of these paths in one hit,(one mortal life) but, Mate you got to take stock.
You have forgotten about the now and listening to let your body talk to you. You only seem to want to Dazzle People with Knowledge, that does not make you clever, cos, at the end of the day what can you use all that crap for. You can’t eat it and you can’t take it with you when you die.
OK it makes for interesting reading, but what are you supposed to be doing with your life? Why did you take Iboga if you only wanted to get a head full of stories.
You lost the original reason why God the Creator places all the herbs on this Rock. So that Man could experience another state of consciousness other than what he perceived as being boring old reality. Possibly the reason why God Created Man. So that He, they, could experience something other than themselves. MultiFaceted, must be quite a strain to live with for all eternity lolol.
Danna, I only write out of a pure conscience to try and get you to stop the internal struggle you seem to be living with.
You have great Jnana, but you have forgotten about the rest of the paths that one must encounter so a to remain complete and well balanced.
Numbers. Why don’t you try learning to stick with, 1,3,4,6,7,8,9, and the Glory of Twelve. Keep it simple. You have a lot of 1s. Ego, and one hell of a lot of fives:) Arrogant Pride!!!
Some of the 4 in you gets your daily tasks done, but where is your 6, 7, 8, 9 and of cause 12.
You profess one Hell of a lot and whinge and wine deeply.
You need to get back to your Roots Danna. Get back to who you really are and not what you think you may want to be.
Your thought is lost in vain imaginings. Quite enjoyable know doubt for your EGO, but where is your brotherly love compassion and of cause Charity. For Charity my friend carries no Chain, but you seem to carry many, plus balls of Iron. Why do you bog yourself down with things that you will never get the answers for. When you should be looking inside of your own self for the answers not getting stuck in the rubbish of Man’s Stupid Mind.
Scientist only make money out of being able to work out complex solutions to simple problems.
Blow the world to pieces and leave Man here without the 20th Century succor and you will just be left with the MAN. Hunter gatherer by Nature and only needs to fight to protect his family. The world is supposed to be your family mate. How come you keep fighting it?
Many Great Civilizations have totally self destructed because of toooooooooo much input. Take the GATHS for instants. They where so proud that they5 couldn’t even make love properly. lolol
The Egyptians used Deception to get the job done and the Babylonians definitely Smashed the world as we now know it into its present form and chaos of destruction. Time, Money, Slavery(Deceptions) Cats, female, looking in two directions at the same time.
Please, I pray come out of the dark place you are in and only look to yourself. Self love is not selfish. It only took me 43 years to learn that one lolol
I ain’t no great scholar, but nearly 4 years at LEEDS UNIVERSITY studying, Math, Chemistry, Physics, Biology and Socialology at a Higher National Degree, taught me shit. (Got me in a few crazy Labs and well Mirrored:, but;) Nothing that I could eat drink or use to survive if all this crap comes down tomorrow. Other than my Gut instinct and slef taught skills.
You have totally hit number one with your bullet, bro, but totally missed the Mark:)~~~’
Bosha’ you lost it in knowledge.
I give to you and pray you sit upon your creator the gifts of the Yogi. Who sort after self enlightenment through discipline and Obedience, and also pray that you learn to channel your energies in ways more constructive than just getting a big head and a proud Heart.
You have asked out of your pain for a long long time for someone to tell you where you are going wrong, but out of your own fear you are misguiding yourself.
Pray sit, forget about Knowledge for the sake of knowledge and see and hear, taste and breath, feel and love  cry and laugh and sing and Pray. Cast down your pride and Anger. Learn to forgive yourself.
Question? Do you Smoke Tobbacco? As you seem to have the Spirit of the Deceiver within you.
Just be MAN. PEACE and of cause love shall conquer all your fears.
As guidance you should be looking at your self as the whole MAN, and not trying to edify yourself in the eyes of your fellow MAN, for this is Vanity. Warfare again for the sake of Warfare.
Why do you always want to be the CONTROL FREAK. IS THIS A CAREER THING WITH YOU OR IS IT JUST YOUR WAY OF TRYING TO HIDE YOUR OWN INSECURITIES???
You are as BAD and TERRIBLE as little Preston.
(OK Judge and be Judged. I Judge you Preston, cos you lied and tryed to hurt people who tryed to help you by tearing down a gift given freely. Sow the Seeds and Reap the Harvest. You can judge me, if you like. I am only a simple Man. Once misguided. I am clean, now).
Scurrying around like a headless ANT. Trying to gather grains of Sugar before the Sun comes out completely and melts them. What you seek has no form, no metal no Power. And so no light. GOT IT!!! STOP. BE STILL. LISTEN. SIT THE MONKEY IN YOU HEAD DOWN AND JUST BE!!! Shalom.’ Tell him to put all his toys away in the proper place and teach him to play with only one toy at a time. Then you will be able to use your energies, positively for your own edification and not the Pomp you seem to seek.
Pray remember WORRY FOR THE SAKE OF WORRY IS A SIN. TALLY FOR THE SAKE OF TALLY IS A WASTE OF TIME. WARFARE????? COME ON DANNA GET IT SORTED MATE. PEOPLE LOOK TO YOU FOR GUIDANCE AND YOU BOGGLE THIER MINDS.
NO WONDER THEY MADE IBOGA ILLIGAL IN THE USA.                                  ;)’
ARN’T THERE ENOUGH EGOTISTICAL MEGLOMAINIACS IN THIS WORLD WITHOUT YOU ADDING TO THE CHAOS?
Look my friend.
A Gift, CONCEPTION, Given not taken, but received Freely  as a child. Never lost only blinded.

WEAVE AND WOVE, TUCK AND ROLL, CAST AND HAUL, WINNOW AND GLEAN. TOOLS!!!
TURN AND LAY THE OTHER WAY DANNA BEAL, TURN AND LAY. WRAP AND WHIP. TUCK AND SPLICE. GRAFT. And grow. Sow and Reap. You have forgotten Grace my friend.
Sunday dinner is to dry without the sweet savour of Gravy. It is like trying to eat the Dead butts in the ash tray, with no water, way too dry.

Rile for the sake of Rile.
You are like a foolish Young Lion with a Thorn in your Paw, Sorry and Sore, but all you may do is lick your Pad.
For you do not have any Tweezers for to remove the Thorn. So many Tools you do not know what to use.
You have Sorely Treated yourself my Friend. I laugh. Ah! you make me cry my friend. Why do you Tarry So??? Pray tell.?
Why?
You can’t have it all mate it ain’t yours to give and it ain’t yours to have.
Why would anyone, in one mortal life, seek such immense Knowledge of the Kingdom Other than God.
You are a Man DANNA not a god.
There is and was only room for one ever. We are but humble servants of the King.
You lost the plot mate. For sure!!!

Oh Foolish Notions of Grandeur!

One said Truth is.

To be Or not !!!         Your question mate not mine!!!
Yashawe’ I go to pray as the Sun has Risen.
Blessings be with you and yours this day. And Pray my friend Pray.
Shalom Paul;)’
Ah DAnna, You brake my Heart Man.~’

_________________________________________________________________
Are you using the latest version of MSN Messenger? Download MSN Messenger 7.5 today! http://join.msn.com/messenger/overview

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: “Billy J” <billjohnson6@sympatico.ca>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Fwd: Gospel of Judas (looking for Intelligent Life?)
Date: April 9, 2006 at 10:41:25 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Well Well Well, I could have been in the deepest dirtiest rottenest, most degrading places, and or in the most expensive and Snotty nosed uppercrusty places, Yet Even When I Was Much Younger and well quite a bit Dumber than I am now,
But I did not think me a genius to look around me and figure out that the moon and the stars, the sun , the trees, plants animals– and let us not forget the supposingly most intelligent HUMANS–
Did not just happen out of some bang, and I really didn’t fall for that My Great great gandpa was a monkey, I felt something was around, a power a wisdom or something.

POINT HERE IS YOU PEOPLE (BESIDES US BEING DRUGGIES???) ARE HIGHLY INTELLIGENT– YES,   JUDAS ISCARIOT WAS A REAL PERSON – HE DID BETRAY JESUS U HA AND DA THE ROMANS DID NOT WANT / NOR DID ANY OF THE ONES THAT PARTAKED OF JESUS’S DEATH, ANYONE TO BELIEVE WHAT REALLY HAPPENED-   uH IT IS NO DIFFERANT THAN TODAY– POLITICS ANYONE- HAVE YOU SEEN OR READ THE GOSPEL ENQIURER , YOU KNOW THAT MAGAZINE THAT SPREADS ALL THE TRUTHS ABOUT FAMOUS PEOPLE — HAY HOW ABOUT YOUR DART BOARD GEORGE BUSH?
COME ON NOW I AM MESSED UP TOO AND WE ALL COULD USE ANOTHER OPPORTUNITY TO SAY WE HAVE BEEN ANGELIC AND IT WOULD BE REAL NICE NOT TO HAVE ANY CONVICTIONS OR ANY (FORGIVE ME) “SINS” in our past.  SORRY
The gospel of judas is REALLY written, BUT by Who– One of You Could Have Written one Just a Damning couldn’t you?
Oops I may have Sinned, and Oh No You wil now Judge Me!!! Yes?

I Love You Too

Billy

P.S. Where is Allan?

—-Original Message Follows—-
From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Fwd: Gospel of Judas
Date: Sun, 9 Apr 2006 05:53:20 -0400
MIME-Version: 1.0
Received: from tomts38-srv.bellnexxia.net ([209.226.175.95]) by bay0-pamc1-f8.bay0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Sun, 9 Apr 2006 03:32:47 -0700
Received: from toip5.bellnexxia.net ([209.226.175.88])          by tomts38-srv.bellnexxia.net          (InterMail vM.5.01.06.13 201-253-122-130-113-20050324) with ESMTP          id <20060409103246.GCF29863.tomts38-srv.bellnexxia.net@toip5.bellnexxia.net>          for <billjohnson6@sympatico.ca>; Sun, 9 Apr 2006 06:32:46 -0400
Received: from tanelorn.mindvox.com (HELO mail.mindvox.com) ([64.124.179.118])  by toip5.bellnexxia.net with ESMTP; 09 Apr 2006 06:32:44 -0400
Received: (qmail 15851 invoked by uid 513); 9 Apr 2006 06:32:39 -0400
Received: (qmail 15845 invoked by uid 514); 9 Apr 2006 06:32:39 -0400
X-Message-Info: moY6YVwXQ45ZcOaSIwVF1xweggprdJ9XGJxY3lh6xM0=
Mailing-List: contact ibogaine-help@mindvox.com; run by ezmlm
Precedence: bulk
X-No-Archive: yes
List-Post: <mailto:ibogaine@mindvox.com>
List-Help: <mailto:ibogaine-help@mindvox.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:ibogaine-unsubscribe@mindvox.com>
List-Subscribe: <mailto:ibogaine-subscribe@mindvox.com>
Delivered-To: mailing list ibogaine@mindvox.com
X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.5 required=4.0
X-Antivirus-MYDOMAIN-Mail-From: ptpeet@nyc.rr.com via tanelorn.mindvox.com
X-Antivirus-MYDOMAIN: 1.25-st-qms (Clear:RC:0(24.29.109.6):SA:0(-2.5/4.0):. Processed in 9.11593 secs Process 15836)
References: <b174c92d1dd8f.443598f1@stern.nyu.edu> <928AB0D7-BA8D-4674-9133-D3E6CC5FA559@phantom.com>
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180
X-Virus-Scanned: Symantec AntiVirus Scan Engine
Return-Path: ibogaine-return-23484-billjohnson6=sympatico.ca@mindvox.com
X-OriginalArrivalTime: 09 Apr 2006 10:32:47.0504 (UTC) FILETIME=[F1CA1900:01C65BC0]

“an obvious end-times deception” is how an in-law put his reaction to my sending him a link about this Gospel of Judas.
Egad.
Fundamentalist christians preaching “god this, god that, jesus this, jesus that,” scare me as much as the Taliban ever would.
—–
“If God dropped acid, would he see people?”  ~Steven Wright

Peace, love and lotsof respect.
Preston Peet
ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor Underground- the Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations, Astonishing Archaeology and Hidden History
Editor Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Columnist HighTimes mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —– From: Dana Beal
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Saturday, April 08, 2006 4:23 PM
Subject: [Ibogaine] Fwd: Gospel of Judas

New gnostic gospel supports passover plot account, thereby buttressing the role of Grail contents with neuro-protective properties as a forensic explanation of what happened in the crucifixion and resurrection.

I now believe that ibogaine may actually have been one of the ingredients in the Grail mixture– because it makes the body? totally numb and able to take being pierced without pain or flinching, and because it’s been patented for ischemia, which is a kind of global stroke effect brought on during Crucifixion by gradual suffocation caused by the windpipe being cut off when the crucified would lean forward trying to rest. Other ingredients would have been some harmaline and possibly cannabis, but not ephedra, which would be unnecessary with the iboga.

If Egyptian mummies have been found with traces of cocaine and nicotine (from the Americas), they couldn’t have had that much trouble getting a bit of root-bark from the sub-Sahara. Iboga originates with the Pygmy, who supposedly had it before anyone else. Somewhere I heard or read?(and maybe some one on the list can provide the citation.)?that the Pygmy first had it in the Rift Valley, 20,000 years ago.?

So the theory is that harmaline was involved in the initiation of the Persian Shah, iboga in the ordination of the Pharaoh. Christ claimed the mantel of both, of course.

Dana/cnw?

Begin forwarded message:

From: “William T. Brennan” <wtb208@stern.nyu.edu>
Date: April 6, 2006 10:40:49 PM EDT
To: dana@phantom.com
Subject: Gospel of Judas

Hi Dana,

I hope all’s been well this week.

You may have heard by now, but the Gospel of Judas has recently surfaced.? I’ve copied the NYT story below and have attached a translation of the gospel.? The unquestionably gnostic thread running through it seems like it’s right up your alley. ?

Predictably, I’ve combed through it looking for potential mushroom references that line up with other more obvious gnostic mushroom references (Heinrich, 2002) and feel like I’ve found a few.? Here they are with some notes:

?Often he did not appear to his disciples as himself, but he was found among them as a child.?

I would love to find out what Greek term was used for ?child,? and to get into its etymology.? I?m pretty sure that it?s in Greek mythology (note that this gospel was originally written in Greek) that mushrooms are often referred to in childish terms (e.g., the ?little ones?).? This line is especially suspect since the rest of the passage makes no reference to Jesus as a child.

One day he was with his disciples in Judea, and he found them gathered together and seated in pious observance. When he [approached] his disciples, [34] gathered >>together and seated and offering a prayer of thanksgiving over the bread, [he] laughed.
The disciples said to [him], ?Master, why are you laughing at [our] prayer of
thanksgiving? We have done what is right.?
He answered and said to them, ?I am not laughing at you. <You> are not doing this because of your own will but because it is through this that your god [will be] praised.?
They said, ?Master, you are [?] the son of our god.?
Jesus said to them, ?How do you know me? Truly [I] say to you, no generation of the people that are among you will know me.?

?When Jesus observed their lack of [understanding, he said] to them, ?Why has this agitation led you to anger? Your god who is within you and [?]?

?Knowing that Judas was reflecting upon something that was exalted, Jesus said to him,
?Step away from the others and I shall tell you the mysteries of the kingdom.?

Jesus seems to be mocking their ?bread eating? ritual by noting that it?s putting them in touch with a different god.? Judas, on the other hand, gets favored and enters into ?conversation? with Jesus because only he rightfully identifies him.? As you know, different species of Amanitas look pretty similar, and even when you find the right (psychoactive) one, they?re notoriously hard to get a psychedelic trip out of.? Maybe this difficulty is what?s contributing to their ?praising of another god.?

?A great angel, the enlightened divine Self-Generated, emerged from the cloud.?

Self-generated?? From the cloud?? Self-generation is unavoidable for a Creator god, but this ?great angel? was brought into being by a greater power.? Why would the text run the risk of coming across as self-contradictory by dubbing him/her/it ?self-created??? This odd, quasi-incorrect description of the angel sounds like a traditional mythic mushroom reference to me (i.e., no visible seed, springing up in the wake of clouds).

I’m skeptical myself, but it’s worth thinking about.? In other news, the postering is going really well on Long Island, and I’ll be getting started on the NYU campus area soon as well (assuming no one else has hit it yet).? I’ve got some more things to talk about, both related to the march and the Ibogaine book, so I’ll talk to you soon. ?

-Bill

Here’s the NYT story:

April 6, 2006
‘Gospel of Judas’ Surfaces After 1,700 Years
By JOHN NOBLE WILFORD and LAURIE GOODSTEIN

An early Christian manuscript, including the only known text of what?
is known as the Gospel of Judas, has surfaced after 1,700 years. The?
text gives new insights into the relationship of Jesus and the?
disciple who betrayed him, scholars reported today. In this version,?
Jesus asked Judas, as a close friend, to sell him out to the?
authorities, telling Judas he will “exceed” the other disciples by?
doing so.

Though some theologians have hypothesized this, scholars who have?
studied the new-found text said, this is the first time an ancient?
document defends the idea.

The discovery in the desert of Egypt of the leather-bound papyrus?
manuscript, and now its translation, was announced by the National?
Geographic Society at a news conference in Washington. The 26-page?
Judas text is said to be a copy in Coptic, made around A. D. 300, of?
the original Gospel of Judas, written in Greek the century before.

Terry Garcia, an executive vice president of the geographic society,?
said the manuscript, or codex, is considered by scholars and?
scientists to be the most significant ancient, nonbiblical text to be?
found in the past 60 years.

“The codex has been authenticated as a genuine work of ancient?
Christian apocryphal literature,” Mr. Garcia said, citing extensive?
tests of radiocarbon dating, ink analysis and multispectral imaging?
and studies of the script and linguistic style. The ink, for example,?
was consistent with ink of that era, and there was no evidence of?
multiple rewriting.

“This is absolutely typical of ancient Coptic manuscripts,” said?
Stephen Emmel, professor of Coptic studies at the University of?
Munster in Germany. “I am completely convinced.”

The most revealing passages in the Judas manuscript begins, “The?
secret account of the revelation that Jesus spoke in conversation?
with Judas Iscariot during a week, three days before he celebrated?
Passover.”

The account goes on to relate that Jesus refers to the other?
disciples, telling Judas “you will exceed all of them. For you will?
sacrifice the man that clothes me.” By that, scholars familiar with?
Gnostic thinking said, Jesus meant that by helping him get rid of his?
physical flesh, Judas will act to liberate the true spiritual self or?
divine being within Jesus.

Unlike the accounts in the New Testament Gospels of Matthew, Mark,?
Luke and John, the anonymous author of the Gospel of Judas believed?
that Judas Iscariot alone among the 12 disciples understood the?
meaning of Jesus’ teachings and acceded to his will. In the diversity?
of early Christian thought, a group known as Gnostics believed in a?
secret knowledge of how people could escape the prisons of their?
material bodies and return to the spiritual realm from which they came.

Elaine Pagels, a professor of religion at Princeton who specializes?
in studies of the Gnostics, said in a statement, “These discoveries?
are exploding the myth of a monolithic religion, and demonstrating?
how diverse ? and fascinating ? the early Christian movement really?
was.”

The Gospel of Judas is only one of many texts discovered in the last?
65 years, including the gospels of Thomas, Mary Magdalene and Philip,?
believed to be written by Gnostics.

The Gnostics’ beliefs were often viewed by bishops and early church?
leaders as unorthodox, and they were frequently denounced as?
heretics. The discoveries of Gnostic texts have shaken up Biblical?
scholarship by revealing the diversity of beliefs and practices among?
early followers of Jesus.

As the findings have trickled down to churches and universities, they?
have produced a new generation of Christians who now regard the Bible?
not as the literal word of God, but as a product of historical and?
political forces that determined which texts should be included in?
the canon, and which edited out.

For that reason, the discoveries have proved deeply troubling for?
many believers. The Gospel of Judas portrays Judas Iscariot not as a?
betrayer of Jesus, but as his most favored disciple and willing?
collaborator.

Scholars say that they have long been on the lookout for the Gospel?
of Judas because of a reference to what was probably an early version?
of it in a text called Against Heresies, written by Irenaeus, the?
bishop of Lyons, about the year 180.

Irenaeus was a hunter of heretics, and no friend of the Gnostics. He?
wrote, “They produce a fictitious history of this kind, which they?
style the Gospel of Judas.”

Karen L. King, a professor of the history of early Christianity at?
Harvard Divinity School, and an expert in Gnosticism who has not yet?
read the manuscript released today, said that the Gospel of Judas may?
well reflect the kinds of debates that arose in the second and third?
century among Christians.

“You can see how early Christians could say, if Jesus’s death was all?
part of God’s plan, then Judas’s betrayal was part of God’s plan,”?
said Ms. King, the author of several books on the Gospel of Mary. “So?
what does that make Judas? Is he the betrayer, or the facilitator of?
salvation, the guy who makes the crucifixion possible?”

At least one scholar said the new manuscript does not contain?
anything dramatic that would change or undermine traditional?
understanding of the Bible. James M. Robinson, a retired professor of?
Coptic studies at Claremont Graduate University, was the general?
editor of the English edition of the Nag Hammadi library, a?
collection of Gnostic documents discovered in Egypt in 1945.

“Correctly understood, there’s nothing undermining about the Gospel?
of Judas,” Mr. Robinson said in a telephone interview. He said that?
the New Testament gospels of John and Mark both contain passages that?
suggest that Jesus not only picked Judas to betray him, but actually?
encouraged Judas to hand him over to those he knew would crucify him.

Mr. Robinson’s book, “The Secrets of Judas: The Story of the?
Misunderstood Disciple and his Lost Gospel” (Harper San Francisco,?
April 2006), predicts the contents of the Gospel of Judas based on?
his knowledge of Gnostic and Coptic texts, even though he was not?
part of the team of researchers working on the document.

The Egyptian copy of the gospel was written on 13 sheets of papyrus,?
both front and back, and found in a multitude of brittle fragments.

Rudolphe Kasser, a Swiss scholar of Coptic studies, directed the team?
that reconstructed and translated the script. The effort, organized?
by the National Geographic, was supported by Maecenas Foundation for?
Ancient Art, in Basel, Switzerland, and the Waitt Institute for?
Historical Discovery, an American nonprofit organization for the?
application of technology in historical and scientific projects.

The entire 66-page codex also contains a text titled James (also?
known as First Apocalypse of James), a letter by Peter and a text of?
what scholars are provisionally calling Book of Allogenes.

Discovered in the 1970’s in a cavern near El Minya, Egypt, the?
document circulated for years among antiquities dealers in Egypt,?
then Europe and finally in the United States. It moldered in a safe-
deposit box at a bank in Hicksville, N. Y., for 16 years before being?
bought in 2000 by a Zurich dealer, Frieda Nussberger-Tchacos. The?
manuscript was given the name Codex Tchacos.

When attempts to resell the codex failed, Ms. Nussberger-Tchacos?
turned it over to the Maecenas Foundation for conservation and?
translation.

Mr. Robinson said that an Egyptian antiquities dealer offered to sell?
him the document in 1983 for $3 million, but that he could not raise?
the money. He criticized the scholars now associated with the?
project, some of whom are his former students, because he said they?
violated an agreement made years ago by Coptic scholars that new?
discoveries should be made accessible to all qualified scholars.

The manuscript will ultimately be returned to Egypt, where it was?
discovered, and housed in the Coptic Museum in Cairo.

Ted Waitt, the founder and former chief executive of Gateway, said?
that his foundation, the Waitt Institute for Historical Discovery,?
gave the National Geographic Society a grant of more than $1 million?
to restore and preserve the manuscript and make it available to the?
public.

” I didn’t know a whole lot until I got into this about the early?
days of Christianity. It was just extremely fascinating to me,” Mr.?
Waitt said in a telephone interview. He said he had no motivation?
other than being fascinated by the finding. He said that after the?
document was carbon dated and the ink tested, procedures his?
foundation paid for, he had no question about its authenticity. “You?
can potentially question the translation and the interpretation, he?
said, but you can’t fake something like this. It would be impossible.”

New gnostic gospel supports passover plot account, thereby
buttressing the role of Grail contents with neuro-protective
properties as a forensic explanation of what happened in the
crucifixion and resurrection.

I now believe that ibogaine may actually have been one of the
ingredients in the Grail mixture– because it makes the body  totally
numb and able to take being pierced without pain or flinching, and
because it’s been patented for ischemia, which is a kind of global
stroke effect brought on during Crucifixion by gradual suffocation
caused by the windpipe being cut off when the crucified would lean
forward trying to rest. Other ingredients would have been some
harmaline and possibly cannabis, but not ephedra, which would be
unnecessary with the iboga.

If Egyptian mummies have been found with traces of cocaine and
nicotine (from the Americas), they couldn’t have had that much
trouble getting a bit of root-bark from the sub-Sahara. Iboga
originates with the Pygmy, who supposedly had it before anyone else.
Somewhere I heard or read (and maybe some one on the list can provide
the citation.) that the Pygmy first had it in the Rift Valley, 20,000
years ago.

So the theory is that harmaline was involved in the initiation of the
Persian Shah, iboga in the ordination of the Pharaoh. Christ claimed
the mantel of both, of course.

Dana/cnw

Begin forwarded message:

From: “William T. Brennan” <wtb208@stern.nyu.edu>
Date: April 6, 2006 10:40:49 PM EDT
To: dana@phantom.com
Subject: Gospel of Judas

Hi Dana,

I hope all’s been well this week.

You may have heard by now, but the Gospel of Judas has recently
surfaced.  I’ve copied the NYT story below and have attached a
translation of the gospel.  The unquestionably gnostic thread
running through it seems like it’s right up your alley.

Predictably, I’ve combed through it looking for potential mushroom
references that line up with other more obvious gnostic mushroom
references (Heinrich, 2002) and feel like I’ve found a few.  Here
they are with some notes:

“Often he did not appear to his disciples as himself, but he was
found among them as a child.”

I would love to find out what Greek term was used for “child,”
and to get into its etymology.  I’m pretty sure that it’s in
Greek mythology (note that this gospel was originally written in
Greek) that mushrooms are often referred to in childish terms
(e.g., the “little ones”).  This line is especially suspect
since the rest of the passage makes no reference to Jesus as a child.

One day he was with his disciples in Judea, and he found them
gathered together and seated in pious observance. When he
[approached] his disciples, [34] gathered >>together and seated
and offering a prayer of thanksgiving over the bread, [he] laughed.
The disciples said to [him], “Master, why are you laughing at
[our] prayer of
thanksgiving? We have done what is right.”
He answered and said to them, “I am not laughing at you. <You>
are not doing this because of your own will but because it is
through this that your god [will be] praised.”
They said, “Master, you are […] the son of our god.”
Jesus said to them, “How do you know me? Truly [I] say to you,
no generation of the people that are among you will know me.”

“When Jesus observed their lack of [understanding, he said] to
them, “Why has this agitation led you to anger? Your god who is
within you and […]”

“Knowing that Judas was reflecting upon something that was
exalted, Jesus said to him,
“Step away from the others and I shall tell you the mysteries of
the kingdom.”

Jesus seems to be mocking their “bread eating” ritual by noting
that it’s putting them in touch with a different god.  Judas, on
the other hand, gets favored and enters into “conversation” with
Jesus because only he rightfully identifies him.  As you know,
different species of Amanitas look pretty similar, and even when
you find the right (psychoactive) one, they’re notoriously hard to
get a psychedelic trip out of.  Maybe this difficulty is what’s
contributing to their “praising of another god.”

“A great angel, the enlightened divine Self-Generated, emerged
from the cloud.”

Self-generated?  From the cloud?  Self-generation is unavoidable
for a Creator god, but this “great angel” was brought into being
by a greater power.  Why would the text run the risk of coming
across as self-contradictory by dubbing him/her/it “self-
created?”  This odd, quasi-incorrect description of the angel
sounds like a traditional mythic mushroom reference to me (i.e., no
visible seed, springing up in the wake of clouds).

I’m skeptical myself, but it’s worth thinking about.  In other
news, the postering is going really well on Long Island, and I’ll
be getting started on the NYU campus area soon as well (assuming no
one else has hit it yet).  I’ve got some more things to talk about,
both related to the march and the Ibogaine book, so I’ll talk to
you soon.

-Bill

Here’s the NYT story:

April 6, 2006
‘Gospel of Judas’ Surfaces After 1,700 Years
By JOHN NOBLE WILFORD and LAURIE GOODSTEIN

An early Christian manuscript, including the only known text of what
is known as the Gospel of Judas, has surfaced after 1,700 years. The
text gives new insights into the relationship of Jesus and the
disciple who betrayed him, scholars reported today. In this version,
Jesus asked Judas, as a close friend, to sell him out to the
authorities, telling Judas he will “exceed” the other disciples by
doing so.

Though some theologians have hypothesized this, scholars who have
studied the new-found text said, this is the first time an ancient
document defends the idea.

The discovery in the desert of Egypt of the leather-bound papyrus
manuscript, and now its translation, was announced by the National
Geographic Society at a news conference in Washington. The 26-page
Judas text is said to be a copy in Coptic, made around A. D. 300, of
the original Gospel of Judas, written in Greek the century before.

Terry Garcia, an executive vice president of the geographic society,
said the manuscript, or codex, is considered by scholars and
scientists to be the most significant ancient, nonbiblical text to be
found in the past 60 years.

“The codex has been authenticated as a genuine work of ancient
Christian apocryphal literature,” Mr. Garcia said, citing extensive
tests of radiocarbon dating, ink analysis and multispectral imaging
and studies of the script and linguistic style. The ink, for example,
was consistent with ink of that era, and there was no evidence of
multiple rewriting.

“This is absolutely typical of ancient Coptic manuscripts,” said
Stephen Emmel, professor of Coptic studies at the University of
Munster in Germany. “I am completely convinced.”

The most revealing passages in the Judas manuscript begins, “The
secret account of the revelation that Jesus spoke in conversation
with Judas Iscariot during a week, three days before he celebrated
Passover.”

The account goes on to relate that Jesus refers to the other
disciples, telling Judas “you will exceed all of them. For you will
sacrifice the man that clothes me.” By that, scholars familiar with
Gnostic thinking said, Jesus meant that by helping him get rid of his
physical flesh, Judas will act to liberate the true spiritual self or
divine being within Jesus.

Unlike the accounts in the New Testament Gospels of Matthew, Mark,
Luke and John, the anonymous author of the Gospel of Judas believed
that Judas Iscariot alone among the 12 disciples understood the
meaning of Jesus’ teachings and acceded to his will. In the diversity
of early Christian thought, a group known as Gnostics believed in a
secret knowledge of how people could escape the prisons of their
material bodies and return to the spiritual realm from which they
came.

Elaine Pagels, a professor of religion at Princeton who specializes
in studies of the Gnostics, said in a statement, “These discoveries
are exploding the myth of a monolithic religion, and demonstrating
how diverse — and fascinating — the early Christian movement
really
was.”

The Gospel of Judas is only one of many texts discovered in the last
65 years, including the gospels of Thomas, Mary Magdalene and Philip,
believed to be written by Gnostics.

The Gnostics’ beliefs were often viewed by bishops and early church
leaders as unorthodox, and they were frequently denounced as
heretics. The discoveries of Gnostic texts have shaken up Biblical
scholarship by revealing the diversity of beliefs and practices among
early followers of Jesus.

As the findings have trickled down to churches and universities, they
have produced a new generation of Christians who now regard the Bible
not as the literal word of God, but as a product of historical and
political forces that determined which texts should be included in
the canon, and which edited out.

For that reason, the discoveries have proved deeply troubling for
many believers. The Gospel of Judas portrays Judas Iscariot not as a
betrayer of Jesus, but as his most favored disciple and willing
collaborator.

Scholars say that they have long been on the lookout for the Gospel
of Judas because of a reference to what was probably an early version
of it in a text called Against Heresies, written by Irenaeus, the
bishop of Lyons, about the year 180.

Irenaeus was a hunter of heretics, and no friend of the Gnostics. He
wrote, “They produce a fictitious history of this kind, which they
style the Gospel of Judas.”

Karen L. King, a professor of the history of early Christianity at
Harvard Divinity School, and an expert in Gnosticism who has not yet
read the manuscript released today, said that the Gospel of Judas may
well reflect the kinds of debates that arose in the second and third
century among Christians.

“You can see how early Christians could say, if Jesus’s death was all
part of God’s plan, then Judas’s betrayal was part of God’s plan,”
said Ms. King, the author of several books on the Gospel of Mary. “So
what does that make Judas? Is he the betrayer, or the facilitator of
salvation, the guy who makes the crucifixion possible?”

At least one scholar said the new manuscript does not contain
anything dramatic that would change or undermine traditional
understanding of the Bible. James M. Robinson, a retired professor of
Coptic studies at Claremont Graduate University, was the general
editor of the English edition of the Nag Hammadi library, a
collection of Gnostic documents discovered in Egypt in 1945.

“Correctly understood, there’s nothing undermining about the Gospel
of Judas,” Mr. Robinson said in a telephone interview. He said that
the New Testament gospels of John and Mark both contain passages that
suggest that Jesus not only picked Judas to betray him, but actually
encouraged Judas to hand him over to those he knew would crucify him.

Mr. Robinson’s book, “The Secrets of Judas: The Story of the
Misunderstood Disciple and his Lost Gospel” (Harper San Francisco,
April 2006), predicts the contents of the Gospel of Judas based on
his knowledge of Gnostic and Coptic texts, even though he was not
part of the team of researchers working on the document.

The Egyptian copy of the gospel was written on 13 sheets of papyrus,
both front and back, and found in a multitude of brittle fragments.

Rudolphe Kasser, a Swiss scholar of Coptic studies, directed the team
that reconstructed and translated the script. The effort, organized
by the National Geographic, was supported by Maecenas Foundation for
Ancient Art, in Basel, Switzerland, and the Waitt Institute for
Historical Discovery, an American nonprofit organization for the
application of technology in historical and scientific projects.

The entire 66-page codex also contains a text titled James (also
known as First Apocalypse of James), a letter by Peter and a text of
what scholars are provisionally calling Book of Allogenes.

Discovered in the 1970’s in a cavern near El Minya, Egypt, the
document circulated for years among antiquities dealers in Egypt,
then Europe and finally in the United States. It moldered in a safe-
deposit box at a bank in Hicksville, N. Y., for 16 years before being
bought in 2000 by a Zurich dealer, Frieda Nussberger-Tchacos. The
manuscript was given the name Codex Tchacos.

When attempts to resell the codex failed, Ms. Nussberger-Tchacos
turned it over to the Maecenas Foundation for conservation and
translation.

Mr. Robinson said that an Egyptian antiquities dealer offered to sell
him the document in 1983 for $3 million, but that he could not raise
the money. He criticized the scholars now associated with the
project, some of whom are his former students, because he said they
violated an agreement made years ago by Coptic scholars that new
discoveries should be made accessible to all qualified scholars.

The manuscript will ultimately be returned to Egypt, where it was
discovered, and housed in the Coptic Museum in Cairo.

Ted Waitt, the founder and former chief executive of Gateway, said
that his foundation, the Waitt Institute for Historical Discovery,
gave the National Geographic Society a grant of more than $1 million
to restore and preserve the manuscript and make it available to the
public.

” I didn’t know a whole lot until I got into this about the early
days of Christianity. It was just extremely fascinating to me,” Mr.
Waitt said in a telephone interview. He said he had no motivation
other than being fascinated by the finding. He said that after the
document was carbon dated and the ink tested, procedures his
foundation paid for, he had no question about its authenticity. “You
can potentially question the translation and the interpretation, he
said, but you can’t fake something like this. It would be impossible.”

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: “Nick Sandberg” <nick227@tiscali.co.uk>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Fwd: Gospel of Judas
Date: April 9, 2006 at 4:50:01 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Dana,

This guy could find “mushroom references” in a “Cat in the Hat” book.

The whole Jesus story and the crucifixion have so many layers of meaning, drawn from so many strands of perennial mythology, that to be convinced it’s just a simple account of this bloke being nailed to some wood is to ignore much of the world’s spiritual history, in some ways no bad thing. However, you are subscribing to this most basic level of meaning and then trying to fiddle around with it to get ibogaine in there somewhere, or so it seems to me. I don’t especially see the point, as anyone sufficiently sussed to know what ibogaine is about is likely also going to know a lot of the other layers of symbolic meaning in the new testament – consciousness crucified on the cross of matter; a alchemical tale of bodily regeneration; a redemptive story of the ego vanquished; a figurate key to the process of manifestation; etc etc. To me, there’s not so much point in going down the road you do. Though in some ways exciting, I think it just attracts more and more people to associate ibogaine with religious craziness. If you need to bring Jesus in, why not focus more on the symbolic elements? At least then you would be associating like more with like. Just a suggestion.

Nick

—–Original Message—–
From: Dana Beal [mailto:dana@phantom.com]
Sent: 08 April 2006 21:24
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] Fwd: Gospel of Judas

New gnostic gospel supports passover plot account, thereby buttressing the role of Grail contents with neuro-protective properties as a forensic explanation of what happened in the crucifixion and resurrection.

I now believe that ibogaine may actually have been one of the ingredients in the Grail mixture– because it makes the body? totally numb and able to take being pierced without pain or flinching, and because it’s been patented for ischemia, which is a kind of global stroke effect brought on during Crucifixion by gradual suffocation caused by the windpipe being cut off when the crucified would lean forward trying to rest. Other ingredients would have been some harmaline and possibly cannabis, but not ephedra, which would be unnecessary with the iboga.

If Egyptian mummies have been found with traces of cocaine and nicotine (from the Americas), they couldn’t have had that much trouble getting a bit of root-bark from the sub-Sahara. Iboga originates with the Pygmy, who supposedly had it before anyone else. Somewhere I heard or read?(and maybe some one on the list can provide the citation.)?that the Pygmy first had it in the Rift Valley, 20,000 years ago.?

So the theory is that harmaline was involved in the initiation of the Persian Shah, iboga in the ordination of the Pharaoh. Christ claimed the mantel of both, of course.

Dana/cnw?

Begin forwarded message:
From: “William T. Brennan” <wtb208@stern.nyu.edu>
Date: April 6, 2006 10:40:49 PM EDT
To: dana@phantom.com
Subject: Gospel of Judas

Hi Dana,

I hope all’s been well this week.

You may have heard by now, but the Gospel of Judas has recently surfaced.? I’ve copied the NYT story below and have attached a translation of the gospel.? The unquestionably gnostic thread running through it seems like it’s right up your alley. ?

Predictably, I’ve combed through it looking for potential mushroom references that line up with other more obvious gnostic mushroom references (Heinrich, 2002) and feel like I’ve found a few.? Here they are with some notes:

?Often he did not appear to his disciples as himself, but he was found among them as a child.?

I would love to find out what Greek term was used for ?child,? and to get into its etymology.? I?m pretty sure that it?s in Greek mythology (note that this gospel was originally written in Greek) that mushrooms are often referred to in childish terms (e.g., the ?little ones?).? This line is especially suspect since the rest of the passage makes no reference to Jesus as a child.

One day he was with his disciples in Judea, and he found them gathered together and seated in pious observance. When he [approached] his disciples, [34] gathered >>together and seated and offering a prayer of thanksgiving over the bread, [he] laughed.
The disciples said to [him], ?Master, why are you laughing at [our] prayer of
thanksgiving? We have done what is right.?
He answered and said to them, ?I am not laughing at you. <You> are not doing this because of your own will but because it is through this that your god [will be] praised.?
They said, ?Master, you are [?] the son of our god.?
Jesus said to them, ?How do you know me? Truly [I] say to you, no generation of the people that are among you will know me.?

?When Jesus observed their lack of [understanding, he said] to them, ?Why has this agitation led you to anger? Your god who is within you and [?]?

?Knowing that Judas was reflecting upon something that was exalted, Jesus said to him,
?Step away from the others and I shall tell you the mysteries of the kingdom.?

Jesus seems to be mocking their ?bread eating? ritual by noting that it?s putting them in touch with a different god.? Judas, on the other hand, gets favored and enters into ?conversation? with Jesus because only he rightfully identifies him.? As you know, different species of Amanitas look pretty similar, and even when you find the right (psychoactive) one, they?re notoriously hard to get a psychedelic trip out of.? Maybe this difficulty is what?s contributing to their ?praising of another god.?

?A great angel, the enlightened divine Self-Generated, emerged from the cloud.?

Self-generated?? From the cloud?? Self-generation is unavoidable for a Creator god, but this ?great angel? was brought into being by a greater power.? Why would the text run the risk of coming across as self-contradictory by dubbing him/her/it ?self-created??? This odd, quasi-incorrect description of the angel sounds like a traditional mythic mushroom reference to me (i.e., no visible seed, springing up in the wake of clouds).

I’m skeptical myself, but it’s worth thinking about.? In other news, the postering is going really well on Long Island, and I’ll be getting started on the NYU campus area soon as well (assuming no one else has hit it yet).? I’ve got some more things to talk about, both related to the march and the Ibogaine book, so I’ll talk to you soon. ?

-Bill

Here’s the NYT story:

April 6, 2006
‘Gospel of Judas’ Surfaces After 1,700 Years
By JOHN NOBLE WILFORD and LAURIE GOODSTEIN

An early Christian manuscript, including the only known text of what?
is known as the Gospel of Judas, has surfaced after 1,700 years. The?
text gives new insights into the relationship of Jesus and the?
disciple who betrayed him, scholars reported today. In this version,?
Jesus asked Judas, as a close friend, to sell him out to the?
authorities, telling Judas he will “exceed” the other disciples by?
doing so.

Though some theologians have hypothesized this, scholars who have?
studied the new-found text said, this is the first time an ancient?
document defends the idea.

The discovery in the desert of Egypt of the leather-bound papyrus?
manuscript, and now its translation, was announced by the National?
Geographic Society at a news conference in Washington. The 26-page?
Judas text is said to be a copy in Coptic, made around A. D. 300, of?
the original Gospel of Judas, written in Greek the century before.

Terry Garcia, an executive vice president of the geographic society,?
said the manuscript, or codex, is considered by scholars and?
scientists to be the most significant ancient, nonbiblical text to be?
found in the past 60 years.

“The codex has been authenticated as a genuine work of ancient?
Christian apocryphal literature,” Mr. Garcia said, citing extensive?
tests of radiocarbon dating, ink analysis and multispectral imaging?
and studies of the script and linguistic style. The ink, for example,?
was consistent with ink of that era, and there was no evidence of?
multiple rewriting.

“This is absolutely typical of ancient Coptic manuscripts,” said?
Stephen Emmel, professor of Coptic studies at the University of?
Munster in Germany. “I am completely convinced.”

The most revealing passages in the Judas manuscript begins, “The?
secret account of the revelation that Jesus spoke in conversation?
with Judas Iscariot during a week, three days before he celebrated?
Passover.”

The account goes on to relate that Jesus refers to the other?
disciples, telling Judas “you will exceed all of them. For you will?
sacrifice the man that clothes me.” By that, scholars familiar with?
Gnostic thinking said, Jesus meant that by helping him get rid of his?
physical flesh, Judas will act to liberate the true spiritual self or?
divine being within Jesus.

Unlike the accounts in the New Testament Gospels of Matthew, Mark,?
Luke and John, the anonymous author of the Gospel of Judas believed?
that Judas Iscariot alone among the 12 disciples understood the?
meaning of Jesus’ teachings and acceded to his will. In the diversity?
of early Christian thought, a group known as Gnostics believed in a?
secret knowledge of how people could escape the prisons of their?
material bodies and return to the spiritual realm from which they came.

Elaine Pagels, a professor of religion at Princeton who specializes?
in studies of the Gnostics, said in a statement, “These discoveries?
are exploding the myth of a monolithic religion, and demonstrating?
how diverse ? and fascinating ? the early Christian movement really?
was.”

The Gospel of Judas is only one of many texts discovered in the last?
65 years, including the gospels of Thomas, Mary Magdalene and Philip,?
believed to be written by Gnostics.

The Gnostics’ beliefs were often viewed by bishops and early church?
leaders as unorthodox, and they were frequently denounced as?
heretics. The discoveries of Gnostic texts have shaken up Biblical?
scholarship by revealing the diversity of beliefs and practices among?
early followers of Jesus.

As the findings have trickled down to churches and universities, they?
have produced a new generation of Christians who now regard the Bible?
not as the literal word of God, but as a product of historical and?
political forces that determined which texts should be included in?
the canon, and which edited out.

For that reason, the discoveries have proved deeply troubling for?
many believers. The Gospel of Judas portrays Judas Iscariot not as a?
betrayer of Jesus, but as his most favored disciple and willing?
collaborator.

Scholars say that they have long been on the lookout for the Gospel?
of Judas because of a reference to what was probably an early version?
of it in a text called Against Heresies, written by Irenaeus, the?
bishop of Lyons, about the year 180.

Irenaeus was a hunter of heretics, and no friend of the Gnostics. He?
wrote, “They produce a fictitious history of this kind, which they?
style the Gospel of Judas.”

Karen L. King, a professor of the history of early Christianity at?
Harvard Divinity School, and an expert in Gnosticism who has not yet?
read the manuscript released today, said that the Gospel of Judas may?
well reflect the kinds of debates that arose in the second and third?
century among Christians.

“You can see how early Christians could say, if Jesus’s death was all?
part of God’s plan, then Judas’s betrayal was part of God’s plan,”?
said Ms. King, the author of several books on the Gospel of Mary. “So?
what does that make Judas? Is he the betrayer, or the facilitator of?
salvation, the guy who makes the crucifixion possible?”

At least one scholar said the new manuscript does not contain?
anything dramatic that would change or undermine traditional?
understanding of the Bible. James M. Robinson, a retired professor of?
Coptic studies at Claremont Graduate University, was the general?
editor of the English edition of the Nag Hammadi library, a?
collection of Gnostic documents discovered in Egypt in 1945.

“Correctly understood, there’s nothing undermining about the Gospel?
of Judas,” Mr. Robinson said in a telephone interview. He said that?
the New Testament gospels of John and Mark both contain passages that?
suggest that Jesus not only picked Judas to betray him, but actually?
encouraged Judas to hand him over to those he knew would crucify him.

Mr. Robinson’s book, “The Secrets of Judas: The Story of the?
Misunderstood Disciple and his Lost Gospel” (Harper San Francisco,?
April 2006), predicts the contents of the Gospel of Judas based on?
his knowledge of Gnostic and Coptic texts, even though he was not?
part of the team of researchers working on the document.

The Egyptian copy of the gospel was written on 13 sheets of papyrus,?
both front and back, and found in a multitude of brittle fragments.

Rudolphe Kasser, a Swiss scholar of Coptic studies, directed the team?
that reconstructed and translated the script. The effort, organized?
by the National Geographic, was supported by Maecenas Foundation for?
Ancient Art, in Basel, Switzerland, and the Waitt Institute for?
Historical Discovery, an American nonprofit organization for the?
application of technology in historical and scientific projects.

The entire 66-page codex also contains a text titled James (also?
known as First Apocalypse of James), a letter by Peter and a text of?
what scholars are provisionally calling Book of Allogenes.

Discovered in the 1970’s in a cavern near El Minya, Egypt, the?
document circulated for years among antiquities dealers in Egypt,?
then Europe and finally in the United States. It moldered in a safe-
deposit box at a bank in Hicksville, N. Y., for 16 years before being?
bought in 2000 by a Zurich dealer, Frieda Nussberger-Tchacos. The?
manuscript was given the name Codex Tchacos.

When attempts to resell the codex failed, Ms. Nussberger-Tchacos?
turned it over to the Maecenas Foundation for conservation and?
translation.

Mr. Robinson said that an Egyptian antiquities dealer offered to sell?
him the document in 1983 for $3 million, but that he could not raise?
the money. He criticized the scholars now associated with the?
project, some of whom are his former students, because he said they?
violated an agreement made years ago by Coptic scholars that new?
discoveries should be made accessible to all qualified scholars.

The manuscript will ultimately be returned to Egypt, where it was?
discovered, and housed in the Coptic Museum in Cairo.

Ted Waitt, the founder and former chief executive of Gateway, said?
that his foundation, the Waitt Institute for Historical Discovery,?
gave the National Geographic Society a grant of more than $1 million?
to restore and preserve the manuscript and make it available to the?
public.

” I didn’t know a whole lot until I got into this about the early?
days of Christianity. It was just extremely fascinating to me,” Mr.?
Waitt said in a telephone interview. He said he had no motivation?
other than being fascinated by the finding. He said that after the?
document was carbon dated and the ink tested, procedures his?
foundation paid for, he had no question about its authenticity. “You?
can potentially question the translation and the interpretation, he?
said, but you can’t fake something like this. It would be impossible.”

From: Henk <knehnav@xs4all.nl>
Subject: [Ibogaine] gospel of judas on tv
Date: April 9, 2006 at 2:50:59 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

bit late, but in a little more than an houre  “the gospel of Judas” on  dutch NG:
http://www.nationalgeographic.nl/channel/?PHPSESSID=3e8758f8e67393a6f75cb1622b4f9da7

Henk


Om Shanti, Jai Mataji, Jai Gangama.

Lost and Free Enterprises
http://www.xs4all.nl/~knehnav

http://www.geocities.com/knehnav55/

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Fwd: Gospel of Judas
Date: April 9, 2006 at 2:00:31 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Dana,

Just curious as to the language of your attached gospel_of_judas_iscariot.pdf as it breaks down the narrative into “scenes.” Is that language customary?

Howard

In a message dated 4/8/06 4:24:39 PM, dana@phantom.com writes:

New gnostic gospel supports passover plot account, thereby buttressing the role of Grail contents with neuro-protective properties as a forensic explanation of what happened in the crucifixion and resurrection.

I now believe that ibogaine may actually have been one of the ingredients in the Grail mixture– because it makes the body  totally numb and able to take being pierced without pain or flinching, and because it’s been patented for ischemia, which is a kind of global stroke effect brought on during Crucifixion by gradual suffocation caused by the windpipe being cut off when the crucified would lean forward trying to rest. Other ingredients would have been some harmaline and possibly cannabis, but not ephedra, which would be unnecessary with the iboga.

If Egyptian mummies have been found with traces of cocaine and nicotine (from the Americas), they couldn’t have had that much trouble getting a bit of root-bark from the sub-Sahara. Iboga originates with the Pygmy, who supposedly had it before anyone else. Somewhere I heard or read (and maybe some one on the list can provide the citation.) that the Pygmy first had it in the Rift Valley, 20,000 years ago.

So the theory is that harmaline was involved in the initiation of the Persian Shah, iboga in the ordination of the Pharaoh. Christ claimed the mantel of both, of course.

Dana/cnw

Begin forwarded message:

From: “William T. Brennan” <wtb208@stern.nyu.edu>
Date: April 6, 2006 10:40:49 PM EDT
To: dana@phantom.com
Subject: Gospel of Judas

Hi Dana,

I hope all’s been well this week.

You may have heard by now, but the Gospel of Judas has recently surfaced.  I’ve copied the NYT story below and have attached a translation of the gospel.  The unquestionably gnostic thread running through it seems like it’s right up your alley.

Predictably, I’ve combed through it looking for potential mushroom references that line up with other more obvious gnostic mushroom references (Heinrich, 2002) and feel like I’ve found a few.  Here they are with some notes:

“Often he did not appear to his disciples as himself, but he was found among them as a child.”

I would love to find out what Greek term was used for “child,” and to get into its etymology.  I’m pretty sure that it’s in Greek mythology (note that this gospel was originally written in Greek) that mushrooms are often referred to in childish terms (e.g., the “little ones”).  This line is especially suspect since the rest of the passage makes no reference to Jesus as a child.

One day he was with his disciples in Judea, and he found them gathered together and seated in pious observance. When he [approached] his disciples, [34] gathered >>together and seated and offering a prayer of thanksgiving over the bread, [he] laughed.
The disciples said to [him], “Master, why are you laughing at [our] prayer of
thanksgiving? We have done what is right.”
He answered and said to them, “I am not laughing at you. <You> are not doing this because of your own will but because it is through this that your god [will be] praised.”
They said, “Master, you are […] the son of our god.”
Jesus said to them, “How do you know me? Truly [I] say to you, no generation of the people that are among you will know me.”

“When Jesus observed their lack of [understanding, he said] to them, “Why has this agitation led you to anger? Your god who is within you and […]”

“Knowing that Judas was reflecting upon something that was exalted, Jesus said to him,
“Step away from the others and I shall tell you the mysteries of the kingdom.”

Jesus seems to be mocking their “bread eating” ritual by noting that it’s putting them in touch with a different god.  Judas, on the other hand, gets favored and enters into “conversation” with Jesus because only he rightfully identifies him.  As you know, different species of Amanitas look pretty similar, and even when you find the right (psychoactive) one, they’re notoriously hard to get a psychedelic trip out of.  Maybe this difficulty is what’s contributing to their “praising of another god.”

“A great angel, the enlightened divine Self-Generated, emerged from the cloud.”

Self-generated?  From the cloud?  Self-generation is unavoidable for a Creator god, but this “great angel” was brought into being by a greater power.  Why would the text run the risk of coming across as self-contradictory by dubbing him/her/it “self-created?”  This odd, quasi-incorrect description of the angel sounds like a traditional mythic mushroom reference to me (i.e., no visible seed, springing up in the wake of clouds).

I’m skeptical myself, but it’s worth thinking about.  In other news, the postering is going really well on Long Island, and I’ll be getting started on the NYU campus area soon as well (assuming no one else has hit it yet).  I’ve got some more things to talk about, both related to the march and the Ibogaine book, so I’ll talk to you soon.

-Bill

Here’s the NYT story:

April 6, 2006
‘Gospel of Judas’ Surfaces After 1,700 Years
By JOHN NOBLE WILFORD and LAURIE GOODSTEIN

An early Christian manuscript, including the only known text of what
is known as the Gospel of Judas, has surfaced after 1,700 years. The
text gives new insights into the relationship of Jesus and the
disciple who betrayed him, scholars reported today. In this version,
Jesus asked Judas, as a close friend, to sell him out to the
authorities, telling Judas he will “exceed” the other disciples by
doing so.

Though some theologians have hypothesized this, scholars who have
studied the new-found text said, this is the first time an ancient
document defends the idea.

The discovery in the desert of Egypt of the leather-bound papyrus
manuscript, and now its translation, was announced by the National
Geographic Society at a news conference in Washington. The 26-page
Judas text is said to be a copy in Coptic, made around A. D. 300, of
the original Gospel of Judas, written in Greek the century before.

Terry Garcia, an executive vice president of the geographic society,
said the manuscript, or codex, is considered by scholars and
scientists to be the most significant ancient, nonbiblical text to be
found in the past 60 years.

“The codex has been authenticated as a genuine work of ancient
Christian apocryphal literature,” Mr. Garcia said, citing extensive
tests of radiocarbon dating, ink analysis and multispectral imaging
and studies of the script and linguistic style. The ink, for example,
was consistent with ink of that era, and there was no evidence of
multiple rewriting.

“This is absolutely typical of ancient Coptic manuscripts,” said
Stephen Emmel, professor of Coptic studies at the University of
Munster in Germany. “I am completely convinced.”

The most revealing passages in the Judas manuscript begins, “The
secret account of the revelation that Jesus spoke in conversation
with Judas Iscariot during a week, three days before he celebrated
Passover.”

The account goes on to relate that Jesus refers to the other
disciples, telling Judas “you will exceed all of them. For you will
sacrifice the man that clothes me.” By that, scholars familiar with
Gnostic thinking said, Jesus meant that by helping him get rid of his
physical flesh, Judas will act to liberate the true spiritual self or
divine being within Jesus.

Unlike the accounts in the New Testament Gospels of Matthew, Mark,
Luke and John, the anonymous author of the Gospel of Judas believed
that Judas Iscariot alone among the 12 disciples understood the
meaning of Jesus’ teachings and acceded to his will. In the diversity
of early Christian thought, a group known as Gnostics believed in a
secret knowledge of how people could escape the prisons of their
material bodies and return to the spiritual realm from which they came.

Elaine Pagels, a professor of religion at Princeton who specializes
in studies of the Gnostics, said in a statement, “These discoveries
are exploding the myth of a monolithic religion, and demonstrating
how diverse — and fascinating — the early Christian movement really
was.”

The Gospel of Judas is only one of many texts discovered in the last
65 years, including the gospels of Thomas, Mary Magdalene and Philip,
believed to be written by Gnostics.

The Gnostics’ beliefs were often viewed by bishops and early church
leaders as unorthodox, and they were frequently denounced as
heretics. The discoveries of Gnostic texts have shaken up Biblical
scholarship by revealing the diversity of beliefs and practices among
early followers of Jesus.

As the findings have trickled down to churches and universities, they
have produced a new generation of Christians who now regard the Bible
not as the literal word of God, but as a product of historical and
political forces that determined which texts should be included in
the canon, and which edited out.

For that reason, the discoveries have proved deeply troubling for
many believers. The Gospel of Judas portrays Judas Iscariot not as a
betrayer of Jesus, but as his most favored disciple and willing
collaborator.

Scholars say that they have long been on the lookout for the Gospel
of Judas because of a reference to what was probably an early version
of it in a text called Against Heresies, written by Irenaeus, the
bishop of Lyons, about the year 180.

Irenaeus was a hunter of heretics, and no friend of the Gnostics. He
wrote, “They produce a fictitious history of this kind, which they
style the Gospel of Judas.”

Karen L. King, a professor of the history of early Christianity at
Harvard Divinity School, and an expert in Gnosticism who has not yet
read the manuscript released today, said that the Gospel of Judas may
well reflect the kinds of debates that arose in the second and third
century among Christians.

“You can see how early Christians could say, if Jesus’s death was all
part of God’s plan, then Judas’s betrayal was part of God’s plan,”
said Ms. King, the author of several books on the Gospel of Mary. “So
what does that make Judas? Is he the betrayer, or the facilitator of
salvation, the guy who makes the crucifixion possible?”

At least one scholar said the new manuscript does not contain
anything dramatic that would change or undermine traditional
understanding of the Bible. James M. Robinson, a retired professor of
Coptic studies at Claremont Graduate University, was the general
editor of the English edition of the Nag Hammadi library, a
collection of Gnostic documents discovered in Egypt in 1945.

“Correctly understood, there’s nothing undermining about the Gospel
of Judas,” Mr. Robinson said in a telephone interview. He said that
the New Testament gospels of John and Mark both contain passages that
suggest that Jesus not only picked Judas to betray him, but actually
encouraged Judas to hand him over to those he knew would crucify him.

Mr. Robinson’s book, “The Secrets of Judas: The Story of the
Misunderstood Disciple and his Lost Gospel” (Harper San Francisco,
April 2006), predicts the contents of the Gospel of Judas based on
his knowledge of Gnostic and Coptic texts, even though he was not
part of the team of researchers working on the document.

The Egyptian copy of the gospel was written on 13 sheets of papyrus,
both front and back, and found in a multitude of brittle fragments.

Rudolphe Kasser, a Swiss scholar of Coptic studies, directed the team
that reconstructed and translated the script. The effort, organized
by the National Geographic, was supported by Maecenas Foundation for
Ancient Art, in Basel, Switzerland, and the Waitt Institute for
Historical Discovery, an American nonprofit organization for the
application of technology in historical and scientific projects.

The entire 66-page codex also contains a text titled James (also
known as First Apocalypse of James), a letter by Peter and a text of
what scholars are provisionally calling Book of Allogenes.

Discovered in the 1970’s in a cavern near El Minya, Egypt, the
document circulated for years among antiquities dealers in Egypt,
then Europe and finally in the United States. It moldered in a safe-
deposit box at a bank in Hicksville, N. Y., for 16 years before being
bought in 2000 by a Zurich dealer, Frieda Nussberger-Tchacos. The
manuscript was given the name Codex Tchacos.

When attempts to resell the codex failed, Ms. Nussberger-Tchacos
turned it over to the Maecenas Foundation for conservation and
translation.

Mr. Robinson said that an Egyptian antiquities dealer offered to sell
him the document in 1983 for $3 million, but that he could not raise
the money. He criticized the scholars now associated with the
project, some of whom are his former students, because he said they
violated an agreement made years ago by Coptic scholars that new
discoveries should be made accessible to all qualified scholars.

The manuscript will ultimately be returned to Egypt, where it was
discovered, and housed in the Coptic Museum in Cairo.

Ted Waitt, the founder and former chief executive of Gateway, said
that his foundation, the Waitt Institute for Historical Discovery,
gave the National Geographic Society a grant of more than $1 million
to restore and preserve the manuscript and make it available to the
public.

” I didn’t know a whole lot until I got into this about the early
days of Christianity. It was just extremely fascinating to me,” Mr.
Waitt said in a telephone interview. He said he had no motivation
other than being fascinated by the finding. He said that after the
document was carbon dated and the ink tested, procedures his
foundation paid for, he had no question about its authenticity. “You
can potentially question the translation and the interpretation, he
said, but you can’t fake something like this. It would be impossible.”

From: marko <marko@phantom.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] for sara /
Date: April 9, 2006 at 5:38:56 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Nothing to worry, Sara! If reports of those FBI/NSA/DEA/CIA people that follow this list will be the official history, it will be clear that it’s THEM who followed the right road to IBOgainise the world!

As for different tribes, I think that each of us (you, Howard, Dana, Patrick, Eric, Brian, Preston, Callie, Guy, Henk…. cannot mention everyone:) is doing the best of his/her abilities towards the final goal. Each of us is different and has different possibilities for work, but each makes his/her own part of the big mosaic, on different planes and levels and realities.

Will be great to see the whole picture one day 😉

The “thruth” is not universal, but very individual thing; that’s why so many people (the vast majority) follow lies. It’s much easier and much more comfortable to believe whichever “truth” was beaten into their heads during their lives, than make research and use ones own brains and connection to higher planes of energy.

It’s easier to watch TV, eat and drink junk, than think. But, it’s a way of “life”.

Marko

Sara Glatt wrote:

history repeats it’s
self.

who knows the truth about what is really happened?and why so many
believers follows unreliable data’s.?

I hope that the kids in future will not fight about which Ibogainsight
was real and which was unreliable sorce of Data’s.
which tribe is the real iboganist, the one that follows Patrick or the one
the follows Dana.

sara

Funny, the bible (at least Jesus’ life) was written at least 50 years

after his death, some parts even more than 100 years later.

It’s good that at least some US govmnt agencies write what’s going on
right now, so reliable <LOL!!> data will be available centuries from
now, when the whole known space/time will be IBOgainised =)

Hey, kids will learn about us in school:
Missionaires had to leave Divided States of America, and they settled in
neighbouring countries and people were coming to Them to get
IBOgainised. And Holly Patrick opened the gate in Cyberspace and people
rushed through them to meet in Cyberspace, for the Evil Government could
not follow them there. Only a handful of true believers stayed in
Divided States of America, and were preparing ground for Good Times when
IBOgainising people will be legal there by The Law. And such time came,
and they were prepared…

Marko

pascall roland wrote:

Hi Sara,

thks for info.

did you know that Al Bukhari, to whom the evangelist sam shamoun
refers to, did collect data on mohammad abt. 200 years after
mohammad’s death. The whole sunni tradition is built up the same way,
means it started to be written down centuries after the events it was
supposed to study.
shamoun could have mentioned that.

Since at mohammad’s times, most traditions were transmitted orally, I
wonder what scholars like al bukhari could have gathered – 2oo years
later –  and whether those collected data were really reliable and had
not been altered!

even the qoran was written down a long time after mohammad’s death.
what guarantees do we have the text is 100% correct?

personally I believe it is not sufficient, and even erroneous, when
someone aims to get an objective idea abt a keyfigure like mohammad,
by reading sam shamoun or al bukhari.

that’s why I asked you for bibliography references,

love

roland

From: “Sara Glatt” <sara119@xs4all.nl>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] for Pascal,
Date: Fri, 7 Apr 2006 14:20:56 +0200 (CEST)

Hi pascal,

here you can find lots of info. about muhammad,

http://www.answering-islam.org/Shamoun/prepubescent.htm

Sara

/]=———————————————————————=[\

[%] Ibogaine List Commands:
http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]

\]=———————————————————————=[/

_________________________________________________________________
FREE pop-up blocking with the new MSN Toolbar – get it now!
http://toolbar.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200415ave/direct/01/

/]=———————————————————————=[\

[%] Ibogaine List Commands:
http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

 

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html
[%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

 

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Fwd: Gospel of Judas
Date: April 9, 2006 at 10:00:05 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I wouldn’t go as far as saying it is an end of time deception but I do find it s/w disturbing.
Of course, it is my strict up bringing in the Church of Christ, who has one of the one of the strictest adherences to the New Testament Gospel.
Personally I do not understand why we have to have a forensic explanation of the crucifixion and resurrection of Jesus. IT is what makes the story so wondrous….that is the fact that it was prophesied and is nothing short of a miracle!
I do love the Easter story!
I do find Judas a very interesting subject as I do all the characters of the Bible.
Callie
From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Fwd: Gospel of Judas
Date: April 9, 2006 at 5:53:20 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

“an obvious end-times deception” is how an in-law put his reaction to my sending him a link about this Gospel of Judas.
Egad.
Fundamentalist christians preaching “god this, god that, jesus this, jesus that,” scare me as much as the Taliban ever would.
—–
“If God dropped acid, would he see people?”  ~Steven Wright

Peace, love and lotsof respect.
Preston Peet
ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor Underground- the Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations, Astonishing Archaeology and Hidden History
Editor Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Columnist HighTimes mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —– From: Dana Beal
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Saturday, April 08, 2006 4:23 PM
Subject: [Ibogaine] Fwd: Gospel of Judas

New gnostic gospel supports passover plot account, thereby buttressing the role of Grail contents with neuro-protective properties as a forensic explanation of what happened in the crucifixion and resurrection.

I now believe that ibogaine may actually have been one of the ingredients in the Grail mixture– because it makes the body? totally numb and able to take being pierced without pain or flinching, and because it’s been patented for ischemia, which is a kind of global stroke effect brought on during Crucifixion by gradual suffocation caused by the windpipe being cut off when the crucified would lean forward trying to rest. Other ingredients would have been some harmaline and possibly cannabis, but not ephedra, which would be unnecessary with the iboga.

If Egyptian mummies have been found with traces of cocaine and nicotine (from the Americas), they couldn’t have had that much trouble getting a bit of root-bark from the sub-Sahara. Iboga originates with the Pygmy, who supposedly had it before anyone else. Somewhere I heard or read?(and maybe some one on the list can provide the citation.)?that the Pygmy first had it in the Rift Valley, 20,000 years ago.?

So the theory is that harmaline was involved in the initiation of the Persian Shah, iboga in the ordination of the Pharaoh. Christ claimed the mantel of both, of course.

Dana/cnw?

Begin forwarded message:

From: “William T. Brennan” <wtb208@stern.nyu.edu>
Date: April 6, 2006 10:40:49 PM EDT
To: dana@phantom.com
Subject: Gospel of Judas

Hi Dana,

I hope all’s been well this week.

You may have heard by now, but the Gospel of Judas has recently surfaced.? I’ve copied the NYT story below and have attached a translation of the gospel.? The unquestionably gnostic thread running through it seems like it’s right up your alley. ?

Predictably, I’ve combed through it looking for potential mushroom references that line up with other more obvious gnostic mushroom references (Heinrich, 2002) and feel like I’ve found a few.? Here they are with some notes:

?Often he did not appear to his disciples as himself, but he was found among them as a child.?

I would love to find out what Greek term was used for ?child,? and to get into its etymology.? I?m pretty sure that it?s in Greek mythology (note that this gospel was originally written in Greek) that mushrooms are often referred to in childish terms (e.g., the ?little ones?).? This line is especially suspect since the rest of the passage makes no reference to Jesus as a child.

One day he was with his disciples in Judea, and he found them gathered together and seated in pious observance. When he [approached] his disciples, [34] gathered >>together and seated and offering a prayer of thanksgiving over the bread, [he] laughed.
The disciples said to [him], ?Master, why are you laughing at [our] prayer of
thanksgiving? We have done what is right.?
He answered and said to them, ?I am not laughing at you. <You> are not doing this because of your own will but because it is through this that your god [will be] praised.?
They said, ?Master, you are [?] the son of our god.?
Jesus said to them, ?How do you know me? Truly [I] say to you, no generation of the people that are among you will know me.?

?When Jesus observed their lack of [understanding, he said] to them, ?Why has this agitation led you to anger? Your god who is within you and [?]?

?Knowing that Judas was reflecting upon something that was exalted, Jesus said to him,
?Step away from the others and I shall tell you the mysteries of the kingdom.?

Jesus seems to be mocking their ?bread eating? ritual by noting that it?s putting them in touch with a different god.? Judas, on the other hand, gets favored and enters into ?conversation? with Jesus because only he rightfully identifies him.? As you know, different species of Amanitas look pretty similar, and even when you find the right (psychoactive) one, they?re notoriously hard to get a psychedelic trip out of.? Maybe this difficulty is what?s contributing to their ?praising of another god.?

?A great angel, the enlightened divine Self-Generated, emerged from the cloud.?

Self-generated?? From the cloud?? Self-generation is unavoidable for a Creator god, but this ?great angel? was brought into being by a greater power.? Why would the text run the risk of coming across as self-contradictory by dubbing him/her/it ?self-created??? This odd, quasi-incorrect description of the angel sounds like a traditional mythic mushroom reference to me (i.e., no visible seed, springing up in the wake of clouds).

I’m skeptical myself, but it’s worth thinking about.? In other news, the postering is going really well on Long Island, and I’ll be getting started on the NYU campus area soon as well (assuming no one else has hit it yet).? I’ve got some more things to talk about, both related to the march and the Ibogaine book, so I’ll talk to you soon. ?

-Bill

Here’s the NYT story:

April 6, 2006
‘Gospel of Judas’ Surfaces After 1,700 Years
By JOHN NOBLE WILFORD and LAURIE GOODSTEIN

An early Christian manuscript, including the only known text of what?
is known as the Gospel of Judas, has surfaced after 1,700 years. The?
text gives new insights into the relationship of Jesus and the?
disciple who betrayed him, scholars reported today. In this version,?
Jesus asked Judas, as a close friend, to sell him out to the?
authorities, telling Judas he will “exceed” the other disciples by?
doing so.

Though some theologians have hypothesized this, scholars who have?
studied the new-found text said, this is the first time an ancient?
document defends the idea.

The discovery in the desert of Egypt of the leather-bound papyrus?
manuscript, and now its translation, was announced by the National?
Geographic Society at a news conference in Washington. The 26-page?
Judas text is said to be a copy in Coptic, made around A. D. 300, of?
the original Gospel of Judas, written in Greek the century before.

Terry Garcia, an executive vice president of the geographic society,?
said the manuscript, or codex, is considered by scholars and?
scientists to be the most significant ancient, nonbiblical text to be?
found in the past 60 years.

“The codex has been authenticated as a genuine work of ancient?
Christian apocryphal literature,” Mr. Garcia said, citing extensive?
tests of radiocarbon dating, ink analysis and multispectral imaging?
and studies of the script and linguistic style. The ink, for example,?
was consistent with ink of that era, and there was no evidence of?
multiple rewriting.

“This is absolutely typical of ancient Coptic manuscripts,” said?
Stephen Emmel, professor of Coptic studies at the University of?
Munster in Germany. “I am completely convinced.”

The most revealing passages in the Judas manuscript begins, “The?
secret account of the revelation that Jesus spoke in conversation?
with Judas Iscariot during a week, three days before he celebrated?
Passover.”

The account goes on to relate that Jesus refers to the other?
disciples, telling Judas “you will exceed all of them. For you will?
sacrifice the man that clothes me.” By that, scholars familiar with?
Gnostic thinking said, Jesus meant that by helping him get rid of his?
physical flesh, Judas will act to liberate the true spiritual self or?
divine being within Jesus.

Unlike the accounts in the New Testament Gospels of Matthew, Mark,?
Luke and John, the anonymous author of the Gospel of Judas believed?
that Judas Iscariot alone among the 12 disciples understood the?
meaning of Jesus’ teachings and acceded to his will. In the diversity?
of early Christian thought, a group known as Gnostics believed in a?
secret knowledge of how people could escape the prisons of their?
material bodies and return to the spiritual realm from which they came.

Elaine Pagels, a professor of religion at Princeton who specializes?
in studies of the Gnostics, said in a statement, “These discoveries?
are exploding the myth of a monolithic religion, and demonstrating?
how diverse ? and fascinating ? the early Christian movement really?
was.”

The Gospel of Judas is only one of many texts discovered in the last?
65 years, including the gospels of Thomas, Mary Magdalene and Philip,?
believed to be written by Gnostics.

The Gnostics’ beliefs were often viewed by bishops and early church?
leaders as unorthodox, and they were frequently denounced as?
heretics. The discoveries of Gnostic texts have shaken up Biblical?
scholarship by revealing the diversity of beliefs and practices among?
early followers of Jesus.

As the findings have trickled down to churches and universities, they?
have produced a new generation of Christians who now regard the Bible?
not as the literal word of God, but as a product of historical and?
political forces that determined which texts should be included in?
the canon, and which edited out.

For that reason, the discoveries have proved deeply troubling for?
many believers. The Gospel of Judas portrays Judas Iscariot not as a?
betrayer of Jesus, but as his most favored disciple and willing?
collaborator.

Scholars say that they have long been on the lookout for the Gospel?
of Judas because of a reference to what was probably an early version?
of it in a text called Against Heresies, written by Irenaeus, the?
bishop of Lyons, about the year 180.

Irenaeus was a hunter of heretics, and no friend of the Gnostics. He?
wrote, “They produce a fictitious history of this kind, which they?
style the Gospel of Judas.”

Karen L. King, a professor of the history of early Christianity at?
Harvard Divinity School, and an expert in Gnosticism who has not yet?
read the manuscript released today, said that the Gospel of Judas may?
well reflect the kinds of debates that arose in the second and third?
century among Christians.

“You can see how early Christians could say, if Jesus’s death was all?
part of God’s plan, then Judas’s betrayal was part of God’s plan,”?
said Ms. King, the author of several books on the Gospel of Mary. “So?
what does that make Judas? Is he the betrayer, or the facilitator of?
salvation, the guy who makes the crucifixion possible?”

At least one scholar said the new manuscript does not contain?
anything dramatic that would change or undermine traditional?
understanding of the Bible. James M. Robinson, a retired professor of?
Coptic studies at Claremont Graduate University, was the general?
editor of the English edition of the Nag Hammadi library, a?
collection of Gnostic documents discovered in Egypt in 1945.

“Correctly understood, there’s nothing undermining about the Gospel?
of Judas,” Mr. Robinson said in a telephone interview. He said that?
the New Testament gospels of John and Mark both contain passages that?
suggest that Jesus not only picked Judas to betray him, but actually?
encouraged Judas to hand him over to those he knew would crucify him.

Mr. Robinson’s book, “The Secrets of Judas: The Story of the?
Misunderstood Disciple and his Lost Gospel” (Harper San Francisco,?
April 2006), predicts the contents of the Gospel of Judas based on?
his knowledge of Gnostic and Coptic texts, even though he was not?
part of the team of researchers working on the document.

The Egyptian copy of the gospel was written on 13 sheets of papyrus,?
both front and back, and found in a multitude of brittle fragments.

Rudolphe Kasser, a Swiss scholar of Coptic studies, directed the team?
that reconstructed and translated the script. The effort, organized?
by the National Geographic, was supported by Maecenas Foundation for?
Ancient Art, in Basel, Switzerland, and the Waitt Institute for?
Historical Discovery, an American nonprofit organization for the?
application of technology in historical and scientific projects.

The entire 66-page codex also contains a text titled James (also?
known as First Apocalypse of James), a letter by Peter and a text of?
what scholars are provisionally calling Book of Allogenes.

Discovered in the 1970’s in a cavern near El Minya, Egypt, the?
document circulated for years among antiquities dealers in Egypt,?
then Europe and finally in the United States. It moldered in a safe-
deposit box at a bank in Hicksville, N. Y., for 16 years before being?
bought in 2000 by a Zurich dealer, Frieda Nussberger-Tchacos. The?
manuscript was given the name Codex Tchacos.

When attempts to resell the codex failed, Ms. Nussberger-Tchacos?
turned it over to the Maecenas Foundation for conservation and?
translation.

Mr. Robinson said that an Egyptian antiquities dealer offered to sell?
him the document in 1983 for $3 million, but that he could not raise?
the money. He criticized the scholars now associated with the?
project, some of whom are his former students, because he said they?
violated an agreement made years ago by Coptic scholars that new?
discoveries should be made accessible to all qualified scholars.

The manuscript will ultimately be returned to Egypt, where it was?
discovered, and housed in the Coptic Museum in Cairo.

Ted Waitt, the founder and former chief executive of Gateway, said?
that his foundation, the Waitt Institute for Historical Discovery,?
gave the National Geographic Society a grant of more than $1 million?
to restore and preserve the manuscript and make it available to the?
public.

” I didn’t know a whole lot until I got into this about the early?
days of Christianity. It was just extremely fascinating to me,” Mr.?
Waitt said in a telephone interview. He said he had no motivation?
other than being fascinated by the finding. He said that after the?
document was carbon dated and the ink tested, procedures his?
foundation paid for, he had no question about its authenticity. “You?
can potentially question the translation and the interpretation, he?
said, but you can’t fake something like this. It would be impossible.”

New gnostic gospel supports passover plot account, thereby
buttressing the role of Grail contents with neuro-protective
properties as a forensic explanation of what happened in the
crucifixion and resurrection.

I now believe that ibogaine may actually have been one of the
ingredients in the Grail mixture– because it makes the body  totally
numb and able to take being pierced without pain or flinching, and
because it’s been patented for ischemia, which is a kind of global
stroke effect brought on during Crucifixion by gradual suffocation
caused by the windpipe being cut off when the crucified would lean
forward trying to rest. Other ingredients would have been some
harmaline and possibly cannabis, but not ephedra, which would be
unnecessary with the iboga.

If Egyptian mummies have been found with traces of cocaine and
nicotine (from the Americas), they couldn’t have had that much
trouble getting a bit of root-bark from the sub-Sahara. Iboga
originates with the Pygmy, who supposedly had it before anyone else.
Somewhere I heard or read (and maybe some one on the list can provide
the citation.) that the Pygmy first had it in the Rift Valley, 20,000
years ago.

So the theory is that harmaline was involved in the initiation of the
Persian Shah, iboga in the ordination of the Pharaoh. Christ claimed
the mantel of both, of course.

Dana/cnw

Begin forwarded message:

From: “William T. Brennan” <wtb208@stern.nyu.edu>
Date: April 6, 2006 10:40:49 PM EDT
To: dana@phantom.com
Subject: Gospel of Judas

Hi Dana,

I hope all’s been well this week.

You may have heard by now, but the Gospel of Judas has recently
surfaced.  I’ve copied the NYT story below and have attached a
translation of the gospel.  The unquestionably gnostic thread
running through it seems like it’s right up your alley.

Predictably, I’ve combed through it looking for potential mushroom
references that line up with other more obvious gnostic mushroom
references (Heinrich, 2002) and feel like I’ve found a few.  Here
they are with some notes:

“Often he did not appear to his disciples as himself, but he was
found among them as a child.”

I would love to find out what Greek term was used for “child,”
and to get into its etymology.  I’m pretty sure that it’s in
Greek mythology (note that this gospel was originally written in
Greek) that mushrooms are often referred to in childish terms
(e.g., the “little ones”).  This line is especially suspect
since the rest of the passage makes no reference to Jesus as a child.

One day he was with his disciples in Judea, and he found them
gathered together and seated in pious observance. When he
[approached] his disciples, [34] gathered >>together and seated
and offering a prayer of thanksgiving over the bread, [he] laughed.
The disciples said to [him], “Master, why are you laughing at
[our] prayer of
thanksgiving? We have done what is right.”
He answered and said to them, “I am not laughing at you. <You>
are not doing this because of your own will but because it is
through this that your god [will be] praised.”
They said, “Master, you are […] the son of our god.”
Jesus said to them, “How do you know me? Truly [I] say to you,
no generation of the people that are among you will know me.”

“When Jesus observed their lack of [understanding, he said] to
them, “Why has this agitation led you to anger? Your god who is
within you and […]”

“Knowing that Judas was reflecting upon something that was
exalted, Jesus said to him,
“Step away from the others and I shall tell you the mysteries of
the kingdom.”

Jesus seems to be mocking their “bread eating” ritual by noting
that it’s putting them in touch with a different god.  Judas, on
the other hand, gets favored and enters into “conversation” with
Jesus because only he rightfully identifies him.  As you know,
different species of Amanitas look pretty similar, and even when
you find the right (psychoactive) one, they’re notoriously hard to
get a psychedelic trip out of.  Maybe this difficulty is what’s
contributing to their “praising of another god.”

“A great angel, the enlightened divine Self-Generated, emerged
from the cloud.”

Self-generated?  From the cloud?  Self-generation is unavoidable
for a Creator god, but this “great angel” was brought into being
by a greater power.  Why would the text run the risk of coming
across as self-contradictory by dubbing him/her/it “self-
created?”  This odd, quasi-incorrect description of the angel
sounds like a traditional mythic mushroom reference to me (i.e., no
visible seed, springing up in the wake of clouds).

I’m skeptical myself, but it’s worth thinking about.  In other
news, the postering is going really well on Long Island, and I’ll
be getting started on the NYU campus area soon as well (assuming no
one else has hit it yet).  I’ve got some more things to talk about,
both related to the march and the Ibogaine book, so I’ll talk to
you soon.

-Bill

Here’s the NYT story:

April 6, 2006
‘Gospel of Judas’ Surfaces After 1,700 Years
By JOHN NOBLE WILFORD and LAURIE GOODSTEIN

An early Christian manuscript, including the only known text of what
is known as the Gospel of Judas, has surfaced after 1,700 years. The
text gives new insights into the relationship of Jesus and the
disciple who betrayed him, scholars reported today. In this version,
Jesus asked Judas, as a close friend, to sell him out to the
authorities, telling Judas he will “exceed” the other disciples by
doing so.

Though some theologians have hypothesized this, scholars who have
studied the new-found text said, this is the first time an ancient
document defends the idea.

The discovery in the desert of Egypt of the leather-bound papyrus
manuscript, and now its translation, was announced by the National
Geographic Society at a news conference in Washington. The 26-page
Judas text is said to be a copy in Coptic, made around A. D. 300, of
the original Gospel of Judas, written in Greek the century before.

Terry Garcia, an executive vice president of the geographic society,
said the manuscript, or codex, is considered by scholars and
scientists to be the most significant ancient, nonbiblical text to be
found in the past 60 years.

“The codex has been authenticated as a genuine work of ancient
Christian apocryphal literature,” Mr. Garcia said, citing extensive
tests of radiocarbon dating, ink analysis and multispectral imaging
and studies of the script and linguistic style. The ink, for example,
was consistent with ink of that era, and there was no evidence of
multiple rewriting.

“This is absolutely typical of ancient Coptic manuscripts,” said
Stephen Emmel, professor of Coptic studies at the University of
Munster in Germany. “I am completely convinced.”

The most revealing passages in the Judas manuscript begins, “The
secret account of the revelation that Jesus spoke in conversation
with Judas Iscariot during a week, three days before he celebrated
Passover.”

The account goes on to relate that Jesus refers to the other
disciples, telling Judas “you will exceed all of them. For you will
sacrifice the man that clothes me.” By that, scholars familiar with
Gnostic thinking said, Jesus meant that by helping him get rid of his
physical flesh, Judas will act to liberate the true spiritual self or
divine being within Jesus.

Unlike the accounts in the New Testament Gospels of Matthew, Mark,
Luke and John, the anonymous author of the Gospel of Judas believed
that Judas Iscariot alone among the 12 disciples understood the
meaning of Jesus’ teachings and acceded to his will. In the diversity
of early Christian thought, a group known as Gnostics believed in a
secret knowledge of how people could escape the prisons of their
material bodies and return to the spiritual realm from which they
came.

Elaine Pagels, a professor of religion at Princeton who specializes
in studies of the Gnostics, said in a statement, “These discoveries
are exploding the myth of a monolithic religion, and demonstrating
how diverse — and fascinating — the early Christian movement
really
was.”

The Gospel of Judas is only one of many texts discovered in the last
65 years, including the gospels of Thomas, Mary Magdalene and Philip,
believed to be written by Gnostics.

The Gnostics’ beliefs were often viewed by bishops and early church
leaders as unorthodox, and they were frequently denounced as
heretics. The discoveries of Gnostic texts have shaken up Biblical
scholarship by revealing the diversity of beliefs and practices among
early followers of Jesus.

As the findings have trickled down to churches and universities, they
have produced a new generation of Christians who now regard the Bible
not as the literal word of God, but as a product of historical and
political forces that determined which texts should be included in
the canon, and which edited out.

For that reason, the discoveries have proved deeply troubling for
many believers. The Gospel of Judas portrays Judas Iscariot not as a
betrayer of Jesus, but as his most favored disciple and willing
collaborator.

Scholars say that they have long been on the lookout for the Gospel
of Judas because of a reference to what was probably an early version
of it in a text called Against Heresies, written by Irenaeus, the
bishop of Lyons, about the year 180.

Irenaeus was a hunter of heretics, and no friend of the Gnostics. He
wrote, “They produce a fictitious history of this kind, which they
style the Gospel of Judas.”

Karen L. King, a professor of the history of early Christianity at
Harvard Divinity School, and an expert in Gnosticism who has not yet
read the manuscript released today, said that the Gospel of Judas may
well reflect the kinds of debates that arose in the second and third
century among Christians.

“You can see how early Christians could say, if Jesus’s death was all
part of God’s plan, then Judas’s betrayal was part of God’s plan,”
said Ms. King, the author of several books on the Gospel of Mary. “So
what does that make Judas? Is he the betrayer, or the facilitator of
salvation, the guy who makes the crucifixion possible?”

At least one scholar said the new manuscript does not contain
anything dramatic that would change or undermine traditional
understanding of the Bible. James M. Robinson, a retired professor of
Coptic studies at Claremont Graduate University, was the general
editor of the English edition of the Nag Hammadi library, a
collection of Gnostic documents discovered in Egypt in 1945.

“Correctly understood, there’s nothing undermining about the Gospel
of Judas,” Mr. Robinson said in a telephone interview. He said that
the New Testament gospels of John and Mark both contain passages that
suggest that Jesus not only picked Judas to betray him, but actually
encouraged Judas to hand him over to those he knew would crucify him.

Mr. Robinson’s book, “The Secrets of Judas: The Story of the
Misunderstood Disciple and his Lost Gospel” (Harper San Francisco,
April 2006), predicts the contents of the Gospel of Judas based on
his knowledge of Gnostic and Coptic texts, even though he was not
part of the team of researchers working on the document.

The Egyptian copy of the gospel was written on 13 sheets of papyrus,
both front and back, and found in a multitude of brittle fragments.

Rudolphe Kasser, a Swiss scholar of Coptic studies, directed the team
that reconstructed and translated the script. The effort, organized
by the National Geographic, was supported by Maecenas Foundation for
Ancient Art, in Basel, Switzerland, and the Waitt Institute for
Historical Discovery, an American nonprofit organization for the
application of technology in historical and scientific projects.

The entire 66-page codex also contains a text titled James (also
known as First Apocalypse of James), a letter by Peter and a text of
what scholars are provisionally calling Book of Allogenes.

Discovered in the 1970’s in a cavern near El Minya, Egypt, the
document circulated for years among antiquities dealers in Egypt,
then Europe and finally in the United States. It moldered in a safe-
deposit box at a bank in Hicksville, N. Y., for 16 years before being
bought in 2000 by a Zurich dealer, Frieda Nussberger-Tchacos. The
manuscript was given the name Codex Tchacos.

When attempts to resell the codex failed, Ms. Nussberger-Tchacos
turned it over to the Maecenas Foundation for conservation and
translation.

Mr. Robinson said that an Egyptian antiquities dealer offered to sell
him the document in 1983 for $3 million, but that he could not raise
the money. He criticized the scholars now associated with the
project, some of whom are his former students, because he said they
violated an agreement made years ago by Coptic scholars that new
discoveries should be made accessible to all qualified scholars.

The manuscript will ultimately be returned to Egypt, where it was
discovered, and housed in the Coptic Museum in Cairo.

Ted Waitt, the founder and former chief executive of Gateway, said
that his foundation, the Waitt Institute for Historical Discovery,
gave the National Geographic Society a grant of more than $1 million
to restore and preserve the manuscript and make it available to the
public.

” I didn’t know a whole lot until I got into this about the early
days of Christianity. It was just extremely fascinating to me,” Mr.
Waitt said in a telephone interview. He said he had no motivation
other than being fascinated by the finding. He said that after the
document was carbon dated and the ink tested, procedures his
foundation paid for, he had no question about its authenticity. “You
can potentially question the translation and the interpretation, he
said, but you can’t fake something like this. It would be impossible.”

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: “Sara Glatt” <sara119@xs4all.nl>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] for sara /
Date: April 8, 2006 at 10:11:47 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

history repeats it’s
self.

who knows the truth about what is really happened?and why so many
believers follows unreliable data’s.?

I hope that the kids in future will not fight about which Ibogainsight
was real and which was unreliable sorce of Data’s.
which tribe is the real iboganist, the one that follows Patrick or the one
the follows Dana.

sara

Funny, the bible (at least Jesus’ life) was written at least 50 years
after his death, some parts even more than 100 years later.

It’s good that at least some US govmnt agencies write what’s going on
right now, so reliable <LOL!!> data will be available centuries from
now, when the whole known space/time will be IBOgainised =)

Hey, kids will learn about us in school:
Missionaires had to leave Divided States of America, and they settled in
neighbouring countries and people were coming to Them to get
IBOgainised. And Holly Patrick opened the gate in Cyberspace and people
rushed through them to meet in Cyberspace, for the Evil Government could
not follow them there. Only a handful of true believers stayed in
Divided States of America, and were preparing ground for Good Times when
IBOgainising people will be legal there by The Law. And such time came,
and they were prepared…

Marko

pascall roland wrote:

Hi Sara,

thks for info.

did you know that Al Bukhari, to whom the evangelist sam shamoun
refers to, did collect data on mohammad abt. 200 years after
mohammad’s death. The whole sunni tradition is built up the same way,
means it started to be written down centuries after the events it was
supposed to study.
shamoun could have mentioned that.

Since at mohammad’s times, most traditions were transmitted orally, I
wonder what scholars like al bukhari could have gathered – 2oo years
later –  and whether those collected data were really reliable and had
not been altered!

even the qoran was written down a long time after mohammad’s death.
what guarantees do we have the text is 100% correct?

personally I believe it is not sufficient, and even erroneous, when
someone aims to get an objective idea abt a keyfigure like mohammad,
by reading sam shamoun or al bukhari.

that’s why I asked you for bibliography references,

love

roland

From: “Sara Glatt” <sara119@xs4all.nl>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] for Pascal,
Date: Fri, 7 Apr 2006 14:20:56 +0200 (CEST)

Hi pascal,

here you can find lots of info. about muhammad,

http://www.answering-islam.org/Shamoun/prepubescent.htm

Sara

/]=———————————————————————=[\

[%] Ibogaine List Commands:
http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]

\]=———————————————————————=[/

_________________________________________________________________
FREE pop-up blocking with the new MSN Toolbar – get it now!
http://toolbar.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200415ave/direct/01/

/]=———————————————————————=[\

[%] Ibogaine List Commands:
http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html
[%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: captkirk <captkirk@clear.net.nz>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] [OT] ‘To hear a list of terrorist organisations, press 1…’
Date: April 8, 2006 at 10:08:40 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

—– Original Message Follows —–
This is a good story to read, especially for the peeps
here who like to rant when someone mentions that some mega
huge 5MB attachment of junk has crashed their email.

‘sign up to yahoo or gmail for free you loser!!’

Oi!!! I resemble that remark!!!
lol
thx vector.

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: Vector Vector <vector620022002@yahoo.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] [OT] ‘To hear a list of terrorist organisations, press 1…’
Date: April 8, 2006 at 7:32:50 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

This is a good story to read, especially for the peeps here who like to
rant when someone mentions that some mega huge 5MB attachment of junk
has crashed their email.

‘sign up to yahoo or gmail for free you loser!!’

Or don’t, unless you want everything you ever read or write being
available to anyone yahoo or google choose to give your information to.

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2006/04/07/gmail_emergency/

Nobody ever reads those huge ‘terms of use’ agreements when you sign on
for a new email, but if you ever took the time to read all 20 pages of
what you click ‘I agree!’ to without reading it, you’re signing away
all your privacy before you even open your mailbox.

Nothing is really ‘free’ in case you forgot 😉

This might be of special interest to all the people who need ibo and
are involved in ‘underground treatments’ if anybody ever wants to read
everything you ever wrote, if it’s deleted or not (google never deletes
anything, even if you delete your email, you deleted out of your
account, google still holds on to it).

.:vector:.

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: “Jasen Chamoun” <jasenhappy@optusnet.com.au>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Needs Need, Must must. There is no want in the Kingdom!!!
Date: April 8, 2006 at 7:32:10 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

That you are Kirsty,..that you are.

I love ya girl, Jasen
—– Original Message —– From: “Kirk” <captkirk@clear.net.nz>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Saturday, April 08, 2006 3:51 PM
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Needs Need, Must must. There is no want in the Kingdom!!!

I am God.

—–Original Message—–
From: Billy J [mailto:billjohnson6@sympatico.ca]
Sent: Saturday, 8 April 2006 5:09 p.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Needs Need, Must must. There is no want in the
Kingdom!!!

No wants in the Kingdom Is correct,
Yet remember that the path is narrow,
and I am getting off the wide path once again-

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: Vector Vector <vector620022002@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] For Vector!!!~”’;:)
Date: April 8, 2006 at 7:25:45 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Thanks and no problem Paul. I think a lot of peeps here believe in God,
if not most of those who have done ibo. I also think you’re going to
find a lot of different interpretations of who or what that god is and
what it means to the person in question 😉

Good luck with your detox, you sound like you really want to make it
and I hope you do!

.:vector:.

— Paul Brookshaw <jiggy9@hotmail.co.uk> wrote:

Vector Bless you my friend,
I dissed you before my fiend and
would
like to apologize for being so intense. It was the only way I could
get the
Strength to beat my enemies. I prayed for many years to get the
strength to
kick my own ass. GOD IS GOOD ALL THE TIME. MY Fridge is full of Sea
food my
cupboards full of fruit my freezer full of meat. My house full of
plants and
my heart is full of compassion. I wonder why Preston did not answer
me
lolol. Mus be a real bitch to not be able to control ones cravings.
lolol
Vector i am as clean as i can get for this day. Yesterday i only took
1.2 mg
of Diazepam. Going to go without now and let my body do the talking.
You
know where I have come from mate, that is for sure.
God has set a burning Fire in my Spirit and woe betide the Man who
wishes to
put me back in the Dark 🙂
I have been in the wilderness for well over 7 months now. Sleep
seldom only
out of exhaustion.
Vector, you can tear down the Governments and you can Tear down the
Police,
But you will not find release, unless you believe in God. They can
take your
freedom and take your life, but they can’t have my Spirit, cos Iboga
has
taught me that,. I have the right to stand up for what I believe.
That isn’t
very different to what any of us really want, it is just the little
thing
called FEAR that we put into the Equation that messes us up. If we
believe
it it is real, scenario.
Bless you my friend and I pray you can forgive me for the disrespect
I gave
you a couple of Months back. I have learnt to forgive
myself;:”’///!!!~’
Heart felt Brotherly Love
and
Grace be with you this day Vector:)
Bless Paul!!!
Strength, Power and Honour, shall lead you to respect yourself and
then the
fruits of the Kingdom, GOD shall give unto you out of your obedience
and
self control and all your needs shall be fulfilled. No want. Just
fulfill
your desires and allow God to fill your need. There is no want.
Patience is
a Virtue I am learning quickly.
Have a good Day now.
Yashawa’ Casara’ Bushan ‘ Shalom Cussara’ Peace bothers, Love and
Grace.

From: Vector Vector <vector620022002@yahoo.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] For Preston:’~///Pray Read mate!!!
Date: Fri, 7 Apr 2006 12:27:45 -0700 (PDT)

Paul it’s not that I agree or disagree with you, I have no idea what
you’re talking about because I haven’t read all the messages in the
thread you’re going off on.

I wanted to say, I loved your letter and the one before it. Whether
you
ever get off drugs or not, you should think about writing religious
tracts or becoming a televangelist on a hellfire and damnation
channel,
you’re f**king great!

.:vector:.

— Paul Brookshaw <jiggy9@hotmail.co.uk> wrote:

Hello Preston,
Sorry to intrude mate, but i feel i have to put
you

straight on a few points.
The Lady Callie you gave the advice to. I feel you where wrong.
Let
me
explain.
The point of Iboga is so that a Man may experience his Feminine
senses and
the Lady the Masculine senses. At the end of the day we are all
individuals.
To not tell people the truth or expose them in public is sinful.
You
should
know from your previous experience, that most of the crap of
giving
up
METHADONE AND SCAG AND MORPHINE, is FEAR.!!!
People look to you for advice cos you took IBOGA. Well mate, you
don’t seem
to realise that you have hurt people that only wanted to help you
and
by
telling people not to STOP METHADONE or not to take IBOGA is only
your
ARROGANCE talking.
You couldn’t have it for yourself, so you trashed it. Absolutely
Brilliant
strategy mate. How come you didn’t think twice before putting
your
brain in
gear?
So you have it all sussed Eh?
How are you doing with the DEATH WEED lolol
You wasted your money mate.
From what I have read you took HCL Before, but didn’t make it.
This is my point.
If you didn’t make it, then how can you give advice to others who
are
Scared
silly of giving up.
You haven’t given up yourself. OK
If the Lady feels she is strong enough to, FLUSHIT, then that
would
be her
decision.
You should of put her heart at ease, and gave her Peace. Then she
maybe
would have sort to look towards her body, talking to her, other
than
her
head. Your head seems to be doing all the talking. What happened
to
your
Bhakti, plus Raja. You need to take control of your own life and
stop

telling others how to live theirs. Maybe it is a Career thing
with
you. Cos
at the end of the day you are still the same addict, you just get
your kicks
in a different way.
I pray you see bro.
To the left hand side Stands Anger and Arrogance with Pride in
the
middle.
To the right stands, Love Compassion and Peace.
You have to learn that the Pride in the middle is headless, or
head
strong.
It acts without you thinking.
You must learn to cut yourself off from this Chaos and only look
to
the
fruits of life.
Love conquers FEAR and EGO and Pride, but if you persist in being
head
strong you will fail.
Just as Jonah felt after the King made it a public decree, not
too
eat any
meat or herb of the field, also all the animals as well for forty
days and
no water. You have just done the same as the King of Nineveh’.
Broke
the
will of GOD.  GET it Sorted mate. Give up the fight. Warfare for
warfare
sake is an utter waste of time and energy. OK
IF you really want to be a child of the light and really step
into
the
Kingdom of light, give up the Tobacco.
You carry a spirit of deception my friend, like a black Feline
Cat.
With two
watch towers and two lights looking in two directions at the same
time.
The best of all you could ever want to be is an Centennial
Spider.
One step
ahead of the rest. 8 Legs and 8 eyes, with seven senses. One step
ahead, cos
the spider has an eye for each leg, plus the seven sences of the
heart. The
8th sense is for Sentry Duty. The spider can sleep and watch at
the
same
time, but only looks in one direction at in any instant. The
Centennial
Spider is not infallible, cos mass force can over come it, but it
knows that
it is only a part of the whole scale of things.
Get it sorted please my friend, for why did you take the IBOGA in
the
first
place.
Ah just because you couldn’t handle the Bone Crushing Pain.
Understood. But
surely, you are no strange to pain, Pain of pleasure and Pains
Pain.
It is
only a state of mind.
Give up. OK
Sorry for the hassle and I pray you forgive me for the intrusion,
but
there
is just too much crap coming from you at this time. The truth
hurts,
I know,
but it will set you Free my friend, Free indeed.

Strength, Power and Honour shall lead you to Respect yourself.
Firstly be truthful with yourself. Then you will be able to be
truthful with
others and not transfer you pain to them. Bless you my
friend;’~///
Heartfelt love and compassion                     RESPECT Paul
:’/~’;)’

_________________________________________________________________
The new MSN Search Toolbar now includes Desktop search!
http://join.msn.com/toolbar/overview

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands:
http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]

\]=———————————————————————=[/

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands:
http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html
[%]

\]=———————————————————————=[/

_________________________________________________________________
Are you using the latest version of MSN Messenger? Download MSN
Messenger
7.5 today! http://join.msn.com/messenger/overview

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands:
http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]

\]=———————————————————————=[/

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: Dana Beal <dana@phantom.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] Fwd: Gospel of Judas
Date: April 8, 2006 at 4:23:33 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

New gnostic gospel supports passover plot account, thereby buttressing the role of Grail contents with neuro-protective properties as a forensic explanation of what happened in the crucifixion and resurrection.

I now believe that ibogaine may actually have been one of the ingredients in the Grail mixture– because it makes the body  totally numb and able to take being pierced without pain or flinching, and because it’s been patented for ischemia, which is a kind of global stroke effect brought on during Crucifixion by gradual suffocation caused by the windpipe being cut off when the crucified would lean forward trying to rest. Other ingredients would have been some harmaline and possibly cannabis, but not ephedra, which would be unnecessary with the iboga.

If Egyptian mummies have been found with traces of cocaine and nicotine (from the Americas), they couldn’t have had that much trouble getting a bit of root-bark from the sub-Sahara. Iboga originates with the Pygmy, who supposedly had it before anyone else. Somewhere I heard or read (and maybe some one on the list can provide the citation.) that the Pygmy first had it in the Rift Valley, 20,000 years ago.

So the theory is that harmaline was involved in the initiation of the Persian Shah, iboga in the ordination of the Pharaoh. Christ claimed the mantel of both, of course.

Dana/cnw

Begin forwarded message:
From: “William T. Brennan” <wtb208@stern.nyu.edu>
Date: April 6, 2006 10:40:49 PM EDT
To: dana@phantom.com
Subject: Gospel of Judas

Hi Dana,

I hope all’s been well this week.

You may have heard by now, but the Gospel of Judas has recently surfaced. I’ve copied the NYT story below and have attached a translation of the gospel. The unquestionably gnostic thread running through it seems like it’s right up your alley.

Predictably, I’ve combed through it looking for potential mushroom references that line up with other more obvious gnostic mushroom references (Heinrich, 2002) and feel like I’ve found a few. Here they are with some notes:

“Often he did not appear to his disciples as himself, but he was found among them as a child.”

I would love to find out what Greek term was used for “child,” and to get into its etymology. I’m pretty sure that it’s in Greek mythology (note that this gospel was originally written in Greek) that mushrooms are often referred to in childish terms (e.g., the “little ones”). This line is especially suspect since the rest of the passage makes no reference to Jesus as a child.

One day he was with his disciples in Judea, and he found them gathered together and seated in pious observance. When he [approached] his disciples, [34] gathered >>together and seated and offering a prayer of thanksgiving over the bread, [he] laughed.
The disciples said to [him], “Master, why are you laughing at [our] prayer of
thanksgiving? We have done what is right.”
He answered and said to them, “I am not laughing at you. <You> are not doing this because of your own will but because it is through this that your god [will be] praised.”
They said, “Master, you are […] the son of our god.”
Jesus said to them, “How do you know me? Truly [I] say to you, no generation of the people that are among you will know me.”

“When Jesus observed their lack of [understanding, he said] to them, “Why has this agitation led you to anger? Your god who is within you and […]”

“Knowing that Judas was reflecting upon something that was exalted, Jesus said to him,
“Step away from the others and I shall tell you the mysteries of the kingdom.”

Jesus seems to be mocking their “bread eating” ritual by noting that it’s putting them in touch with a different god. Judas, on the other hand, gets favored and enters into “conversation” with Jesus because only he rightfully identifies him. As you know, different species of Amanitas look pretty similar, and even when you find the right (psychoactive) one, they’re notoriously hard to get a psychedelic trip out of. Maybe this difficulty is what’s contributing to their “praising of another god.”

“A great angel, the enlightened divine Self-Generated, emerged from the cloud.”

Self-generated? From the cloud? Self-generation is unavoidable for a Creator god, but this “great angel” was brought into being by a greater power. Why would the text run the risk of coming across as self-contradictory by dubbing him/her/it “self-created?” This odd, quasi-incorrect description of the angel sounds like a traditional mythic mushroom reference to me (i.e., no visible seed, springing up in the wake of clouds).

I’m skeptical myself, but it’s worth thinking about. In other news, the postering is going really well on Long Island, and I’ll be getting started on the NYU campus area soon as well (assuming no one else has hit it yet). I’ve got some more things to talk about, both related to the march and the Ibogaine book, so I’ll talk to you soon.

-Bill

Here’s the NYT story:

April 6, 2006
‘Gospel of Judas’ Surfaces After 1,700 Years
By JOHN NOBLE WILFORD and LAURIE GOODSTEIN

An early Christian manuscript, including the only known text of what
is known as the Gospel of Judas, has surfaced after 1,700 years. The
text gives new insights into the relationship of Jesus and the
disciple who betrayed him, scholars reported today. In this version,
Jesus asked Judas, as a close friend, to sell him out to the
authorities, telling Judas he will “exceed” the other disciples by
doing so.

Though some theologians have hypothesized this, scholars who have
studied the new-found text said, this is the first time an ancient
document defends the idea.

The discovery in the desert of Egypt of the leather-bound papyrus
manuscript, and now its translation, was announced by the National
Geographic Society at a news conference in Washington. The 26-page
Judas text is said to be a copy in Coptic, made around A. D. 300, of
the original Gospel of Judas, written in Greek the century before.

Terry Garcia, an executive vice president of the geographic society,
said the manuscript, or codex, is considered by scholars and
scientists to be the most significant ancient, nonbiblical text to be
found in the past 60 years.

“The codex has been authenticated as a genuine work of ancient
Christian apocryphal literature,” Mr. Garcia said, citing extensive
tests of radiocarbon dating, ink analysis and multispectral imaging
and studies of the script and linguistic style. The ink, for example,
was consistent with ink of that era, and there was no evidence of
multiple rewriting.

“This is absolutely typical of ancient Coptic manuscripts,” said
Stephen Emmel, professor of Coptic studies at the University of
Munster in Germany. “I am completely convinced.”

The most revealing passages in the Judas manuscript begins, “The
secret account of the revelation that Jesus spoke in conversation
with Judas Iscariot during a week, three days before he celebrated
Passover.”

The account goes on to relate that Jesus refers to the other
disciples, telling Judas “you will exceed all of them. For you will
sacrifice the man that clothes me.” By that, scholars familiar with
Gnostic thinking said, Jesus meant that by helping him get rid of his
physical flesh, Judas will act to liberate the true spiritual self or
divine being within Jesus.

Unlike the accounts in the New Testament Gospels of Matthew, Mark,
Luke and John, the anonymous author of the Gospel of Judas believed
that Judas Iscariot alone among the 12 disciples understood the
meaning of Jesus’ teachings and acceded to his will. In the diversity
of early Christian thought, a group known as Gnostics believed in a
secret knowledge of how people could escape the prisons of their
material bodies and return to the spiritual realm from which they came.

Elaine Pagels, a professor of religion at Princeton who specializes
in studies of the Gnostics, said in a statement, “These discoveries
are exploding the myth of a monolithic religion, and demonstrating
how diverse — and fascinating — the early Christian movement really
was.”

The Gospel of Judas is only one of many texts discovered in the last
65 years, including the gospels of Thomas, Mary Magdalene and Philip,
believed to be written by Gnostics.

The Gnostics’ beliefs were often viewed by bishops and early church
leaders as unorthodox, and they were frequently denounced as
heretics. The discoveries of Gnostic texts have shaken up Biblical
scholarship by revealing the diversity of beliefs and practices among
early followers of Jesus.

As the findings have trickled down to churches and universities, they
have produced a new generation of Christians who now regard the Bible
not as the literal word of God, but as a product of historical and
political forces that determined which texts should be included in
the canon, and which edited out.

For that reason, the discoveries have proved deeply troubling for
many believers. The Gospel of Judas portrays Judas Iscariot not as a
betrayer of Jesus, but as his most favored disciple and willing
collaborator.

Scholars say that they have long been on the lookout for the Gospel
of Judas because of a reference to what was probably an early version
of it in a text called Against Heresies, written by Irenaeus, the
bishop of Lyons, about the year 180.

Irenaeus was a hunter of heretics, and no friend of the Gnostics. He
wrote, “They produce a fictitious history of this kind, which they
style the Gospel of Judas.”

Karen L. King, a professor of the history of early Christianity at
Harvard Divinity School, and an expert in Gnosticism who has not yet
read the manuscript released today, said that the Gospel of Judas may
well reflect the kinds of debates that arose in the second and third
century among Christians.

“You can see how early Christians could say, if Jesus’s death was all
part of God’s plan, then Judas’s betrayal was part of God’s plan,”
said Ms. King, the author of several books on the Gospel of Mary. “So
what does that make Judas? Is he the betrayer, or the facilitator of
salvation, the guy who makes the crucifixion possible?”

At least one scholar said the new manuscript does not contain
anything dramatic that would change or undermine traditional
understanding of the Bible. James M. Robinson, a retired professor of
Coptic studies at Claremont Graduate University, was the general
editor of the English edition of the Nag Hammadi library, a
collection of Gnostic documents discovered in Egypt in 1945.

“Correctly understood, there’s nothing undermining about the Gospel
of Judas,” Mr. Robinson said in a telephone interview. He said that
the New Testament gospels of John and Mark both contain passages that
suggest that Jesus not only picked Judas to betray him, but actually
encouraged Judas to hand him over to those he knew would crucify him.

Mr. Robinson’s book, “The Secrets of Judas: The Story of the
Misunderstood Disciple and his Lost Gospel” (Harper San Francisco,
April 2006), predicts the contents of the Gospel of Judas based on
his knowledge of Gnostic and Coptic texts, even though he was not
part of the team of researchers working on the document.

The Egyptian copy of the gospel was written on 13 sheets of papyrus,
both front and back, and found in a multitude of brittle fragments.

Rudolphe Kasser, a Swiss scholar of Coptic studies, directed the team
that reconstructed and translated the script. The effort, organized
by the National Geographic, was supported by Maecenas Foundation for
Ancient Art, in Basel, Switzerland, and the Waitt Institute for
Historical Discovery, an American nonprofit organization for the
application of technology in historical and scientific projects.

The entire 66-page codex also contains a text titled James (also
known as First Apocalypse of James), a letter by Peter and a text of
what scholars are provisionally calling Book of Allogenes.

Discovered in the 1970’s in a cavern near El Minya, Egypt, the
document circulated for years among antiquities dealers in Egypt,
then Europe and finally in the United States. It moldered in a safe-
deposit box at a bank in Hicksville, N. Y., for 16 years before being
bought in 2000 by a Zurich dealer, Frieda Nussberger-Tchacos. The
manuscript was given the name Codex Tchacos.

When attempts to resell the codex failed, Ms. Nussberger-Tchacos
turned it over to the Maecenas Foundation for conservation and
translation.

Mr. Robinson said that an Egyptian antiquities dealer offered to sell
him the document in 1983 for $3 million, but that he could not raise
the money. He criticized the scholars now associated with the
project, some of whom are his former students, because he said they
violated an agreement made years ago by Coptic scholars that new
discoveries should be made accessible to all qualified scholars.

The manuscript will ultimately be returned to Egypt, where it was
discovered, and housed in the Coptic Museum in Cairo.

Ted Waitt, the founder and former chief executive of Gateway, said
that his foundation, the Waitt Institute for Historical Discovery,
gave the National Geographic Society a grant of more than $1 million
to restore and preserve the manuscript and make it available to the
public.

” I didn’t know a whole lot until I got into this about the early
days of Christianity. It was just extremely fascinating to me,” Mr.
Waitt said in a telephone interview. He said he had no motivation
other than being fascinated by the finding. He said that after the
document was carbon dated and the ink tested, procedures his
foundation paid for, he had no question about its authenticity. “You
can potentially question the translation and the interpretation, he
said, but you can’t fake something like this. It would be impossible.”

From: marko <marko@phantom.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] for sara /
Date: April 8, 2006 at 12:32:05 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Funny, the bible (at least Jesus’ life) was written at least 50 years after his death, some parts even more than 100 years later.

It’s good that at least some US govmnt agencies write what’s going on right now, so reliable <LOL!!> data will be available centuries from now, when the whole known space/time will be IBOgainised =)

Hey, kids will learn about us in school:
Missionaires had to leave Divided States of America, and they settled in neighbouring countries and people were coming to Them to get IBOgainised. And Holly Patrick opened the gate in Cyberspace and people rushed through them to meet in Cyberspace, for the Evil Government could not follow them there. Only a handful of true believers stayed in Divided States of America, and were preparing ground for Good Times when IBOgainising people will be legal there by The Law. And such time came, and they were prepared…

Marko

pascall roland wrote:

Hi Sara,

thks for info.

did you know that Al Bukhari, to whom the evangelist sam shamoun refers to, did collect data on mohammad abt. 200 years after mohammad’s death. The whole sunni tradition is built up the same way, means it started to be written down centuries after the events it was supposed to study.
shamoun could have mentioned that.

Since at mohammad’s times, most traditions were transmitted orally, I wonder what scholars like al bukhari could have gathered – 2oo years later –  and whether those collected data were really reliable and had not been altered!

even the qoran was written down a long time after mohammad’s death. what guarantees do we have the text is 100% correct?

personally I believe it is not sufficient, and even erroneous, when someone aims to get an objective idea abt a keyfigure like mohammad, by reading sam shamoun or al bukhari.

that’s why I asked you for bibliography references,

love

roland

From: “Sara Glatt” <sara119@xs4all.nl>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] for Pascal,
Date: Fri, 7 Apr 2006 14:20:56 +0200 (CEST)

Hi pascal,

here you can find lots of info. about muhammad,

http://www.answering-islam.org/Shamoun/prepubescent.htm

Sara

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

_________________________________________________________________
FREE pop-up blocking with the new MSN Toolbar – get it now! http://toolbar.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200415ave/direct/01/

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: “Paul Brookshaw” <jiggy9@hotmail.co.uk>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] For Vector!!!~”’;:)
Date: April 8, 2006 at 10:21:36 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Vector Bless you my friend,
I dissed you before my fiend and would like to apologize for being so intense. It was the only way I could get the Strength to beat my enemies. I prayed for many years to get the strength to kick my own ass. GOD IS GOOD ALL THE TIME. MY Fridge is full of Sea food my cupboards full of fruit my freezer full of meat. My house full of plants and my heart is full of compassion. I wonder why Preston did not answer me lolol. Mus be a real bitch to not be able to control ones cravings. lolol
Vector i am as clean as i can get for this day. Yesterday i only took 1.2 mg of Diazepam. Going to go without now and let my body do the talking. You know where I have come from mate, that is for sure.
God has set a burning Fire in my Spirit and woe betide the Man who wishes to put me back in the Dark 🙂
I have been in the wilderness for well over 7 months now. Sleep seldom only out of exhaustion.
Vector, you can tear down the Governments and you can Tear down the Police, But you will not find release, unless you believe in God. They can take your freedom and take your life, but they can’t have my Spirit, cos Iboga has taught me that,. I have the right to stand up for what I believe. That isn’t very different to what any of us really want, it is just the little thing called FEAR that we put into the Equation that messes us up. If we believe it it is real, scenario.
Bless you my friend and I pray you can forgive me for the disrespect I gave you a couple of Months back. I have learnt to forgive myself;:”’///!!!~’
Heart felt Brotherly Love and Grace be with you this day Vector:)
Bless Paul!!!
Strength, Power and Honour, shall lead you to respect yourself and then the fruits of the Kingdom, GOD shall give unto you out of your obedience and self control and all your needs shall be fulfilled. No want. Just fulfill your desires and allow God to fill your need. There is no want. Patience is a Virtue I am learning quickly.
Have a good Day now.
Yashawa’ Casara’ Bushan ‘ Shalom Cussara’ Peace bothers, Love and Grace.

From: Vector Vector <vector620022002@yahoo.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] For Preston:’~///Pray Read mate!!!
Date: Fri, 7 Apr 2006 12:27:45 -0700 (PDT)

Paul it’s not that I agree or disagree with you, I have no idea what
you’re talking about because I haven’t read all the messages in the
thread you’re going off on.

I wanted to say, I loved your letter and the one before it. Whether you
ever get off drugs or not, you should think about writing religious
tracts or becoming a televangelist on a hellfire and damnation channel,
you’re f**king great!

.:vector:.

— Paul Brookshaw <jiggy9@hotmail.co.uk> wrote:

> Hello Preston,
>                   Sorry to intrude mate, but i feel i have to put you
>
> straight on a few points.
> The Lady Callie you gave the advice to. I feel you where wrong. Let
> me
> explain.
> The point of Iboga is so that a Man may experience his Feminine
> senses and
> the Lady the Masculine senses. At the end of the day we are all
> individuals.
> To not tell people the truth or expose them in public is sinful. You
> should
> know from your previous experience, that most of the crap of giving
> up
> METHADONE AND SCAG AND MORPHINE, is FEAR.!!!
> People look to you for advice cos you took IBOGA. Well mate, you
> don’t seem
> to realise that you have hurt people that only wanted to help you and
> by
> telling people not to STOP METHADONE or not to take IBOGA is only
> your
> ARROGANCE talking.
> You couldn’t have it for yourself, so you trashed it. Absolutely
> Brilliant
> strategy mate. How come you didn’t think twice before putting your
> brain in
> gear?
> So you have it all sussed Eh?
> How are you doing with the DEATH WEED lolol
> You wasted your money mate.
> From what I have read you took HCL Before, but didn’t make it.
> This is my point.
> If you didn’t make it, then how can you give advice to others who are
> Scared
> silly of giving up.
> You haven’t given up yourself. OK
> If the Lady feels she is strong enough to, FLUSHIT, then that would
> be her
> decision.
> You should of put her heart at ease, and gave her Peace. Then she
> maybe
> would have sort to look towards her body, talking to her, other than
> her
> head. Your head seems to be doing all the talking. What happened to
> your
> Bhakti, plus Raja. You need to take control of your own life and stop
>
> telling others how to live theirs. Maybe it is a Career thing with
> you. Cos
> at the end of the day you are still the same addict, you just get
> your kicks
> in a different way.
> I pray you see bro.
> To the left hand side Stands Anger and Arrogance with Pride in the
> middle.
> To the right stands, Love Compassion and Peace.
> You have to learn that the Pride in the middle is headless, or head
> strong.
> It acts without you thinking.
> You must learn to cut yourself off from this Chaos and only look to
> the
> fruits of life.
> Love conquers FEAR and EGO and Pride, but if you persist in being
> head
> strong you will fail.
> Just as Jonah felt after the King made it a public decree, not too
> eat any
> meat or herb of the field, also all the animals as well for forty
> days and
> no water. You have just done the same as the King of Nineveh’. Broke
> the
> will of GOD.  GET it Sorted mate. Give up the fight. Warfare for
> warfare
> sake is an utter waste of time and energy. OK
> IF you really want to be a child of the light and really step into
> the
> Kingdom of light, give up the Tobacco.
> You carry a spirit of deception my friend, like a black Feline Cat.
> With two
> watch towers and two lights looking in two directions at the same
> time.
> The best of all you could ever want to be is an Centennial Spider.
> One step
> ahead of the rest. 8 Legs and 8 eyes, with seven senses. One step
> ahead, cos
> the spider has an eye for each leg, plus the seven sences of the
> heart. The
> 8th sense is for Sentry Duty. The spider can sleep and watch at the
> same
> time, but only looks in one direction at in any instant. The
> Centennial
> Spider is not infallible, cos mass force can over come it, but it
> knows that
> it is only a part of the whole scale of things.
> Get it sorted please my friend, for why did you take the IBOGA in the
> first
> place.
> Ah just because you couldn’t handle the Bone Crushing Pain.
> Understood. But
> surely, you are no strange to pain, Pain of pleasure and Pains Pain.
> It is
> only a state of mind.
> Give up. OK
> Sorry for the hassle and I pray you forgive me for the intrusion, but
> there
> is just too much crap coming from you at this time. The truth hurts,
> I know,
> but it will set you Free my friend, Free indeed.
>
> Strength, Power and Honour shall lead you to Respect yourself.
> Firstly be truthful with yourself. Then you will be able to be
> truthful with
> others and not transfer you pain to them. Bless you my friend;’~///
> Heartfelt love and compassion                     RESPECT Paul
> :’/~’;)’
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> The new MSN Search Toolbar now includes Desktop search!
> http://join.msn.com/toolbar/overview
>
>
>
>
>
/]=———————————————————————=[\
>  [%] Ibogaine List Commands:
> http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
>
>
\]=———————————————————————=[/
>
>
>

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

_________________________________________________________________
Are you using the latest version of MSN Messenger? Download MSN Messenger 7.5 today! http://join.msn.com/messenger/overview

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: “pascall roland” <pascal-roland@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] for sara /
Date: April 8, 2006 at 4:28:53 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Sara,

thks for info.

did you know that Al Bukhari, to whom the evangelist sam shamoun refers to, did collect data on mohammad abt. 200 years after mohammad’s death. The whole sunni tradition is built up the same way, means it started to be written down centuries after the events it was supposed to study.
shamoun could have mentioned that.

Since at mohammad’s times, most traditions were transmitted orally, I wonder what scholars like al bukhari could have gathered – 2oo years later –  and whether those collected data were really reliable and had not been altered!

even the qoran was written down a long time after mohammad’s death. what guarantees do we have the text is 100% correct?

personally I believe it is not sufficient, and even erroneous, when someone aims to get an objective idea abt a keyfigure like mohammad, by reading sam shamoun or al bukhari.

that’s why I asked you for bibliography references,

love

roland

From: “Sara Glatt” <sara119@xs4all.nl>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] for Pascal,
Date: Fri, 7 Apr 2006 14:20:56 +0200 (CEST)

Hi pascal,

here you can find lots of info. about muhammad,

http://www.answering-islam.org/Shamoun/prepubescent.htm

Sara

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

_________________________________________________________________
FREE pop-up blocking with the new MSN Toolbar – get it now! http://toolbar.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200415ave/direct/01/

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: Kirk <captkirk@clear.net.nz>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Needs Need, Must must. There is no want in the Kingdom!!!
Date: April 8, 2006 at 1:51:33 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I am God.

—–Original Message—–
From: Billy J [mailto:billjohnson6@sympatico.ca]
Sent: Saturday, 8 April 2006 5:09 p.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Needs Need, Must must. There is no want in the
Kingdom!!!

No wants in the Kingdom Is correct,
Yet remember that the path is narrow,
and I am getting off the wide path once again-

God is good and I know we all believe here, cause it requires faith in
something we can’t see or totaly understand-
Like Wow A guy takes a trip to Africa- Messed up on Dope, Takes some other
drug, probably just for the Buzz and or experiance, and Voila- he has found
Ibogaine-
Or was Mr.Lotsofs steps ordered of ??? The Lord- Call it Fate, or Whatever
you choose, But if all the testimonies are true I personally call it a
MIRACLE-
Don’t ya dare take offense for me mentioning that God is is Control- when we

Let Him.

Good Night Ya All

Bill

—-Original Message Follows—-
From: “Paul Brookshaw” <jiggy9@hotmail.co.uk>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] Needs Need, Must must. There is no want in the
Kingdom!!!
Date: Thu, 06 Apr 2006 10:39:27 +0100
MIME-Version: 1.0
Received: from tomts41-srv.bellnexxia.net ([209.226.175.98]) by
bay0-pamc1-f1.bay0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Thu, 6

Apr 2006 02:39:45 -0700
Received: from toip3.bellnexxia.net ([209.226.175.86])          by
tomts41-srv.bellnexxia.net          (InterMail vM.5.01.06.13
201-253-122-130-113-20050324) with ESMTP          id
<20060406093945.DLOT1323.tomts41-srv.bellnexxia.net@toip3.bellnexxia.net>

for <billjohnson6@sympatico.ca>; Thu, 6 Apr 2006 05:39:45 -0400
Received: from tanelorn.mindvox.com (HELO mail.mindvox.com)
([64.124.179.118])  by toip3.bellnexxia.net with ESMTP; 06 Apr 2006 05:39:44

-0400
Received: (qmail 5225 invoked by uid 513); 6 Apr 2006 05:39:42 -0400
Received: (qmail 5218 invoked by uid 514); 6 Apr 2006 05:39:42 -0400
X-Message-Info: moY6YVwXQ44eXJCAuy4bXpcST6wY20padqIAF/BKxAg=
Mailing-List: contact ibogaine-help@mindvox.com; run by ezmlm
Precedence: bulk
X-No-Archive: yes
List-Post: <mailto:ibogaine@mindvox.com>
List-Help: <mailto:ibogaine-help@mindvox.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:ibogaine-unsubscribe@mindvox.com>
List-Subscribe: <mailto:ibogaine-subscribe@mindvox.com>
Delivered-To: mailing list ibogaine@mindvox.com
X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.8 required=4.0
X-Antivirus-MYDOMAIN-Mail-From: jiggy9@hotmail.co.uk via
tanelorn.mindvox.com
X-Antivirus-MYDOMAIN: 1.25-st-qms (Clear:RC:0(65.54.168.26):SA:0(-1.8/4.0):.

Processed in 9.120511 secs Process 4958)
Return-Path: ibogaine-return-23405-billjohnson6=sympatico.ca@mindvox.com
X-OriginalArrivalTime: 06 Apr 2006 09:39:45.0937 (UTC)
FILETIME=[0A304010:01C6595E]

Hi folks,
Just thought I’d add my 6 eggs to this dreaded equation of
Addiction.
Hi bro,
You know the answers people. Give up. Take it very easy on the
Benzos though cos they are a reall bitch. I pray that you find the strenght
my friends, cos i know you know. So what you have to do is take the time and

give up.
But you must prepare. You need to be healthy. Start by coming down a bit on
the gear. I know it hurts, but we are not strangers to pain. I just got sick

of the pain of pleasure and the pain of pains pain. Broken needle in my
purple vein and all that shit. You all know, you can totally hit number one
with the bullet but totally miss the mark. You got to take time for you cos
self love is not selfish. I got to fix my freaking key bourd as I have
mashed out the keys JPR. My head blew when i realised what I done. Do you
read the bible. If not do it. Use the tools available, look after yourself.
I know you require your job for sustanance, but you have to consider your
health comes first. You can only be as good in your work as much as you can
put on bourd that is clean and healthy. You are what you eat and take. The
despare you feel is natural as you want out but do not give yourself time to

recover.
I still hurt, but am getting stronger. The Iboga brings out the femanine
side of you and makes you care for yourself. As long as you don’t use after,

you will recover, how long that is anyones guess. We are all different. We
have to learn to break our mind sets, and stomp the world for what it is.
You can tare down all the Governments and you can tare down the police, but
you still won’t find release, unless you believe in God.
You have been given a thorn in your side a messenger of Satan, that you may
not be exhaulted above messure by the abundance of revalations.
I see you want to get out but you are the one that is not letting yourself
go.
Take this onbourd people, friends and brothers and sisters and pray it all
the time in times of trouble and strife.
GOD, GRANT ME THE SERENITY TO ACCEPT THE THINGS I CANNOT CHANGE. CHANGE THE
THINGS I CAN, AND LORD GIVE ME THE WISDOM TO KNOW THE DIFFERENCE. Rome was
not built in a day, so you cannot expect to get there in one day. Maybe not
even in one life time, either. this a pure spiritual walk. Mans mind is
stupid as he leans to switch off the feelings he does not like with Opiates
and Downers and Alcahol then has to change the set with uppers to stay
awake. No wonder you feel so out of sink. lololol
Look  and take good stock of what you really have in your life. Praise GOD
for what you already have and do not look to what you do not,. Vain
imaginings. You know, cos you wouldn’t of wrote other wise. The truth is a
real bitch to hanndle, but in the end it all sots itself out. The truth
shall set you free, you only have to learn to forgive yourself for all the
self destruction. Be good to yourself and stay cool, take it easy and eat
good food and drink the water.
Create fo yourself yourr own Garden of eaden.

Strength, Power and Honour shall lead you to respect yourself. Love and
Peace.
Paul:)/~’

Remeber Selah’            I am a MAN!!!
GOD is GOOD, ALL THE  TIME. Blessings from Norwich England.

_________________________________________________________________
Be the first to hear what’s new at MSN – sign up to our free newsletters!
http://www.msn.co.uk/newsletters

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html
[%]

\]=———————————————————————=[/

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html
[%]

\]=———————————————————————=[/


No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.385 / Virus Database: 268.4.0/304 – Release Date: 04/07/2006


No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.385 / Virus Database: 268.4.0/304 – Release Date: 04/07/2006

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: “Billy J” <billjohnson6@sympatico.ca>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Needs Need, Must must. There is no want in the Kingdom!!!
Date: April 8, 2006 at 1:08:49 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

No wants in the Kingdom Is correct,
Yet remember that the path is narrow,
and I am getting off the wide path once again-

God is good and I know we all believe here, cause it requires faith in something we can’t see or totaly understand-
Like Wow A guy takes a trip to Africa- Messed up on Dope, Takes some other drug, probably just for the Buzz and or experiance, and Voila- he has found Ibogaine-
Or was Mr.Lotsofs steps ordered of ??? The Lord- Call it Fate, or Whatever you choose, But if all the testimonies are true I personally call it a MIRACLE-
Don’t ya dare take offense for me mentioning that God is is Control- when we Let Him.

Good Night Ya All

Bill

—-Original Message Follows—-
From: “Paul Brookshaw” <jiggy9@hotmail.co.uk>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] Needs Need, Must must. There is no want in the Kingdom!!!
Date: Thu, 06 Apr 2006 10:39:27 +0100
MIME-Version: 1.0
Received: from tomts41-srv.bellnexxia.net ([209.226.175.98]) by bay0-pamc1-f1.bay0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Thu, 6 Apr 2006 02:39:45 -0700
Received: from toip3.bellnexxia.net ([209.226.175.86])          by tomts41-srv.bellnexxia.net          (InterMail vM.5.01.06.13 201-253-122-130-113-20050324) with ESMTP          id <20060406093945.DLOT1323.tomts41-srv.bellnexxia.net@toip3.bellnexxia.net>          for <billjohnson6@sympatico.ca>; Thu, 6 Apr 2006 05:39:45 -0400
Received: from tanelorn.mindvox.com (HELO mail.mindvox.com) ([64.124.179.118])  by toip3.bellnexxia.net with ESMTP; 06 Apr 2006 05:39:44 -0400
Received: (qmail 5225 invoked by uid 513); 6 Apr 2006 05:39:42 -0400
Received: (qmail 5218 invoked by uid 514); 6 Apr 2006 05:39:42 -0400
X-Message-Info: moY6YVwXQ44eXJCAuy4bXpcST6wY20padqIAF/BKxAg=
Mailing-List: contact ibogaine-help@mindvox.com; run by ezmlm
Precedence: bulk
X-No-Archive: yes
List-Post: <mailto:ibogaine@mindvox.com>
List-Help: <mailto:ibogaine-help@mindvox.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:ibogaine-unsubscribe@mindvox.com>
List-Subscribe: <mailto:ibogaine-subscribe@mindvox.com>
Delivered-To: mailing list ibogaine@mindvox.com
X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.8 required=4.0
X-Antivirus-MYDOMAIN-Mail-From: jiggy9@hotmail.co.uk via tanelorn.mindvox.com
X-Antivirus-MYDOMAIN: 1.25-st-qms (Clear:RC:0(65.54.168.26):SA:0(-1.8/4.0):. Processed in 9.120511 secs Process 4958)
Return-Path: ibogaine-return-23405-billjohnson6=sympatico.ca@mindvox.com
X-OriginalArrivalTime: 06 Apr 2006 09:39:45.0937 (UTC) FILETIME=[0A304010:01C6595E]

Hi folks,
Just thought I’d add my 6 eggs to this dreaded equation of Addiction.
Hi bro,
You know the answers people. Give up. Take it very easy on the Benzos though cos they are a reall bitch. I pray that you find the strenght my friends, cos i know you know. So what you have to do is take the time and give up.
But you must prepare. You need to be healthy. Start by coming down a bit on the gear. I know it hurts, but we are not strangers to pain. I just got sick of the pain of pleasure and the pain of pains pain. Broken needle in my purple vein and all that shit. You all know, you can totally hit number one with the bullet but totally miss the mark. You got to take time for you cos self love is not selfish. I got to fix my freaking key bourd as I have mashed out the keys JPR. My head blew when i realised what I done. Do you read the bible. If not do it. Use the tools available, look after yourself.
I know you require your job for sustanance, but you have to consider your health comes first. You can only be as good in your work as much as you can put on bourd that is clean and healthy. You are what you eat and take. The despare you feel is natural as you want out but do not give yourself time to recover.
I still hurt, but am getting stronger. The Iboga brings out the femanine side of you and makes you care for yourself. As long as you don’t use after, you will recover, how long that is anyones guess. We are all different. We have to learn to break our mind sets, and stomp the world for what it is. You can tare down all the Governments and you can tare down the police, but you still won’t find release, unless you believe in God.
You have been given a thorn in your side a messenger of Satan, that you may not be exhaulted above messure by the abundance of revalations.
I see you want to get out but you are the one that is not letting yourself go.
Take this onbourd people, friends and brothers and sisters and pray it all the time in times of trouble and strife.
GOD, GRANT ME THE SERENITY TO ACCEPT THE THINGS I CANNOT CHANGE. CHANGE THE THINGS I CAN, AND LORD GIVE ME THE WISDOM TO KNOW THE DIFFERENCE. Rome was not built in a day, so you cannot expect to get there in one day. Maybe not even in one life time, either. this a pure spiritual walk. Mans mind is stupid as he leans to switch off the feelings he does not like with Opiates and Downers and Alcahol then has to change the set with uppers to stay awake. No wonder you feel so out of sink. lololol
Look  and take good stock of what you really have in your life. Praise GOD for what you already have and do not look to what you do not,. Vain imaginings. You know, cos you wouldn’t of wrote other wise. The truth is a real bitch to hanndle, but in the end it all sots itself out. The truth shall set you free, you only have to learn to forgive yourself for all the self destruction. Be good to yourself and stay cool, take it easy and eat good food and drink the water.
Create fo yourself yourr own Garden of eaden.

Strength, Power and Honour shall lead you to respect yourself. Love and Peace.
Paul:)/~’         Remeber Selah’            I am a MAN!!!
GOD is GOOD, ALL THE  TIME. Blessings from Norwich England.

_________________________________________________________________
Be the first to hear what’s new at MSN – sign up to our free newsletters! http://www.msn.co.uk/newsletters

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: “Billy J” <billjohnson6@sympatico.ca>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] For Preston:’~///Pray Read mate!!!
Date: April 8, 2006 at 12:57:00 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Sinful Like a black feline Cat?
A Man getting in touch with his feminine Side? A Woman Her Masculine??
You Guys (I think your Guys-Males, with a P_nis!) must be waaaayyyy out there and getting
much better meds than Me, Cause My Name Is Bill, and I come from over that there Hill, and My thrill
is still just in a pill, Yet I Like who I am and if I started thinking that I was perhaps a Part female,
I would just know that I had taken 1 or probably 2 or 3 tooo many.

Lots Of good stuff Here Today–

WAY TO GO BISCUITE BOY- oh ya You are the Man- Now What-

Please Keep the guard Up My friend, because that Piece of poop addiction is still doing pushups.

You are tougher today and when I have a year I want to be able to remember this day, That the man with the awsome Mom- Anne? right , was the first person I knew that made it through a year after Ibogaine– Oh I want to be The

Thank-You!

Billy

—-Original Message Follows—-
From: Kirk <captkirk@clear.net.nz>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] For Preston:’~///Pray Read mate!!!
Date: Sat, 08 Apr 2006 07:25:33 +1200
MIME-Version: 1.0
Received: from tomts39-srv.bellnexxia.net ([209.226.175.96]) by bay0-pamc1-f5.bay0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Fri, 7 Apr 2006 12:26:46 -0700
Received: from toip3.bellnexxia.net ([209.226.175.86])          by tomts39-srv.bellnexxia.net          (InterMail vM.5.01.06.10 201-253-122-130-110-20040306) with ESMTP          id <20060407192645.SXHL11764.tomts39-srv.bellnexxia.net@toip3.bellnexxia.net>          for <billjohnson6@sympatico.ca>; Fri, 7 Apr 2006 15:26:45 -0400
Received: from tanelorn.mindvox.com (HELO mail.mindvox.com) ([64.124.179.118])  by toip3.bellnexxia.net with ESMTP; 07 Apr 2006 15:26:33 -0400
Received: (qmail 7402 invoked by uid 513); 7 Apr 2006 15:26:29 -0400
Received: (qmail 7396 invoked by uid 514); 7 Apr 2006 15:26:29 -0400
X-Message-Info: moY6YVwXQ46eEfEDN3tP8HnKOrPxSX3Pd48MnvGZf1k=
Mailing-List: contact ibogaine-help@mindvox.com; run by ezmlm
Precedence: bulk
X-No-Archive: yes
List-Post: <mailto:ibogaine@mindvox.com>
List-Help: <mailto:ibogaine-help@mindvox.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:ibogaine-unsubscribe@mindvox.com>
List-Subscribe: <mailto:ibogaine-subscribe@mindvox.com>
Delivered-To: mailing list ibogaine@mindvox.com
X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.4 required=4.0
X-Antivirus-MYDOMAIN-Mail-From: captkirk@clear.net.nz via tanelorn.mindvox.com
X-Antivirus-MYDOMAIN: 1.25-st-qms (Clear:RC:0(203.97.37.27):SA:0(-2.4/4.0):. Processed in 3.274016 secs Process 7371)
X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.6353
Thread-index: AcZaZ0yb++icpIiKRcyMkBGTkEg61gAENVQA
Return-Path: ibogaine-return-23464-billjohnson6=sympatico.ca@mindvox.com
X-OriginalArrivalTime: 07 Apr 2006 19:26:46.0388 (UTC) FILETIME=[35A05340:01C65A79]

The point of Iboga is so that a Man may experience his Feminine senses and
the Lady the Masculine senses. At the end of the day we are all individuals.
To not tell people the truth or expose them in public is sinful. You should
know from your previous experience, that most of the crap of giving up
METHADONE AND SCAG AND MORPHINE, is FEAR.!!!

Hi Paul
I have to disagree with your theory of man/fem woman/masculine that’s just
far too black and white my masculine side is way out of balance I needed to
experience my feminine side more….. thus apparently, according to some why
I have all this stuff manifesting on the right hand side.
As for giving up something that CAN have a stabilising effect for an
individual when they are not ready can be more harmful and set someone
back….I’m referring to methadone here…but then again it’s a different
scene here I had a good experience this time round on it.

I don’t have it all sussed, and I know you don’t either.  You feel a little
tunnel visioned……

OH well, Onward Thru the Fog!!!!!

With love n respect to all
Cappen koiky xxx


No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.385 / Virus Database: 268.4.0/304 – Release Date: 04/07/2006

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] OT – Painted hands
Date: April 8, 2006 at 12:11:51 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com, tennvols00@hotmail.com, phinson96@yahoo.com, feeefeee5@yahoo.com, caustin1961@netzero.net, RAustin1980@aol.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Ezprezzo.com – Painted hands

I know, I know! I can’t help sending you to these cool links!
I live such an eventful life!

From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] OT-Horoscopes for Fundamentalist Christians, WARNING! MAY OFFEND SOME
Date: April 8, 2006 at 12:03:47 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Horoscopes for Fundamentalist Christians

hahahahahahahahahahaha!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
really good for a belly laugh!
Callie

From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] ot! Piled Cans Art
Date: April 7, 2006 at 11:59:45 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

This is really cool. Be sure to scroll down after page loads.
Callie

Uêba – Piled Cans Art

From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] OT- Life in the 1500’s
Date: April 7, 2006 at 5:11:57 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Folks, I do not know if this is factual but it makes sense to me! It is an entertaining read, even if it is not true!
Peace out, Callie
LIFE IN THE 1500’S

Most people got married in June, because they took their yearly bath in May and still smelled pretty good by June. However, they were starting to smell, so brides carried a bouquet of flowers to hide the body odor. Hence the custom today of carrying a bouquet when getting married.

Baths consisted of a big tub filled with hot water. The man of the house had the privilege of the nice clean water, then all the other sons and men, then the women and finally the children! Last of all the babies. By then the water was so dirty you could actually lose someone in it. Hence the saying, “Don’t throw the baby out with the bath
water.”

Houses had thatched roofs-thick straw-piled high, with no wood underneath. It was the only place for animals to get warm, so all the cats and other small animals (mice, bugs) lived in the roof. When it rained it became slippery and sometimes the animals would slip and fall off the roof.  Hence the saying “It’s raining cats and dogs.”

There was nothing to stop things from falling into the house.  This posed a real problem in the bedroom where bugs and other droppings could mess up your nice clean bed. Hence, a bed with big posts and a sheet hung over the top afforded some protection. That’s how canopy beds came into existence.

The floor was dirt. Only the wealthy had something other than dirt. Hence the saying “dirt poor.” The wealthy had slate floors that would get slippery in the winter when wet, so they spread thresh (straw) on floor to help keep their footing. As the winter wore on, they added more thresh until when you opened the door it would all start slipping outside. A piece of wood was placed in the entranceway.  Hence the saying a “thresh hold.”

(Getting quite an education, aren’t you?)

In those old days, they cooked in the kitchen with a big kettle that always hung over the fire. Every day they lit the fire and added things to the pot. They ate mostly vegetables and did not get much meat.  They would eat the stew for dinner, leaving leftovers in the pot to get cold overnight and then start over the next day. Sometimes stew had food in it that had been there for quite a while. Hence the rhyme, “Peas porridge hot, peas porridge cold, peas porridge in the pot nine days old.”

Sometimes they could obtain pork, which made them feel quite special. When visitors came over, they would hang up their bacon to show off. It was a sign of wealth that a man could “bring home the bacon.”  They would cut off a little to share with guests and would all sit around and “chew the fat.”

Those with money had plates made of pewter. Food with high acid content caused some of the lead to leach onto the food, causing lead poisoning death. This happened most often with tomatoes, so for the next 400 years or so, tomatoes were considered poisonous.

Bread was divided according to status. Workers got the burnt bottom of the loaf, the family got the middle, and guests got the top, or “upper crust.”

Lead cups were used to drink ale or whisky. The combination would sometimes knock the imbibers out for a couple of days. Someone walking along the road would take them for dead and prepare them for burial. They were laid out on the kitchen table for a couple of days and the family would gather around and eat and drink and wait and see if they would wake up.  Hence the custom of holding a “wake.”

England is old and small and the local folks started running out of places to bury people. So they would dig up coffins and would take the bones to a “bone-house” and reuse the grave. When reopening these coffins, 1 out of 25 coffins were found to have scratch marks on the inside and they realized they had been burying people alive. So they would tie a string on the wrist of the corpse, lead it through the coffin and up through the ground and tie it to a bell. Someone would have to sit out in the graveyard all night (the “graveyard shift”) to listen for the bell; thus, someone could be “saved by the bell” or was considered a “dead ringer.”

From: biscuitboy714@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] new research paper
Date: April 7, 2006 at 4:28:54 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Thank yu Howard. This stregthens my resolve to do another treatment sometime soon.             Randy

—–Original Message—–
From: HSLotsof@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Wed, 5 Apr 2006 15:13:58 EDT
Subject: [Ibogaine] new research paper

GDNF and Addiction
Dorit Ron and Patricia H. Janak
Reviews in the Neurosciences, 16,277-285 (2005)

See excerpt below.

GDNF MEDIATES THE DESIRABLE ACTIVITIES
OF THE ANTI-ADDICTION DRUG, IBOGAINE

If GDNF counteracts biochemical and behavioral
neuroadaptation to drugs of abuse, then it
could potentially be a useful drug target for antiaddiction
medication development. Support for this
possibility stems from a recent study in which we
found that the anti-addiction drug ibogaine reduces
alcohol consumption via activation of the GDNF
pathway 1351.
For the past 30 years, ibogaine, a natural
alkaloid found in the root bark of the African shrub
Tabernanthe iboga, has attracted interest for its
purported efficacy in reversing addiction to
multiple drugs of abuse including alcohol /27,49,
6 11. Anecdotal reports of effects in humans indicate
that ibogaine reduces craving and withdrawal
, symptoms 12,731. Animal studies also suggest that
ibogaine attenuates drug- and alcohol-induced
behaviors. For example, ibogaine reduces heroin
operant self-administration 1161, and naloxoneprecipitated
withdrawal in morphine-dependent rats
I1 1,281. Ibogaine also decreases cocaine-induced
locomotor activity and self-administration in rats
I101 and mice 170,711. Similar results have been
reported for ibogaine’s activities on alcohol intake
in a two-bottle choice paradigm 135,631. We
showed that systemic administration of ibogaine
reduces operant self-administration of alcohol in
rats 13.51, as well as the binge drinking that occurs
after a period of abstinence, demonstrating ibogaine’s
efficacy in a relapse model 1351. Importantly,
we found that the VTA is a site of action for
ibogaine’s reduction of alcohol self-administration,
and that a concentration of ibogaine that decreases
alcohol consumption also increases GDNF expression
in the midbrain of rodents 1351. We therefore
tested whether GDNF mediates the activities of
ibogaine, first in cells in culture, and then in vivo.
We used the DAergic-like SHSYSY cell line to
demonstrate that ibogaine exposure results in
increased expression of GDNF and increased
activation of the GDNF signaling cascade via the
activation of the Ret receptor 1351. Finally, we
showed that delivery of inhibitory antibodies
against GDNF into the VTA attenuated ibogaine’s
decrease of alcohol operant self-administration in
rats 1351. Because it is known that GDNF can alter
the VTA-dependent biochemical and behavioral
effects of cocaine and morphine (see above), the
evidence as a whole suggests that ibogaine reduces
self-administration of multiple drugs of abuse via
GDNF.
/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: Kirk <captkirk@clear.net.nz>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] For Preston:’~///Pray Read mate!!!
Date: April 7, 2006 at 3:41:24 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

OMG Vector that’s so spooky, I had the exact same image in my head!!
Urh, no offence intended Paul…..
CK

.:vector:.wrote
I wanted to say, I loved your letter and the one before it. Whether you
ever get off drugs or not, you should think about writing religious
tracts or becoming a televangelist on a hellfire and damnation channel,
you’re f**king great!

— Paul Brookshaw <jiggy9@hotmail.co.uk> wrote:

Hello Preston,
Sorry to intrude mate, but i feel i have to put you

straight on a few points.
The Lady Callie you gave the advice to. I feel you where wrong. Let
me
explain.
The point of Iboga is so that a Man may experience his Feminine
senses and
the Lady the Masculine senses. At the end of the day we are all
individuals.
To not tell people the truth or expose them in public is sinful. You
should
know from your previous experience, that most of the crap of giving
up
METHADONE AND SCAG AND MORPHINE, is FEAR.!!!
People look to you for advice cos you took IBOGA. Well mate, you
don’t seem
to realise that you have hurt people that only wanted to help you and
by
telling people not to STOP METHADONE or not to take IBOGA is only
your
ARROGANCE talking.
You couldn’t have it for yourself, so you trashed it. Absolutely
Brilliant
strategy mate. How come you didn’t think twice before putting your
brain in
gear?
So you have it all sussed Eh?
How are you doing with the DEATH WEED lolol
You wasted your money mate.
From what I have read you took HCL Before, but didn’t make it.
This is my point.
If you didn’t make it, then how can you give advice to others who are
Scared
silly of giving up.
You haven’t given up yourself. OK
If the Lady feels she is strong enough to, FLUSHIT, then that would
be her
decision.
You should of put her heart at ease, and gave her Peace. Then she
maybe
would have sort to look towards her body, talking to her, other than
her
head. Your head seems to be doing all the talking. What happened to
your
Bhakti, plus Raja. You need to take control of your own life and stop

telling others how to live theirs. Maybe it is a Career thing with
you. Cos
at the end of the day you are still the same addict, you just get
your kicks
in a different way.
I pray you see bro.
To the left hand side Stands Anger and Arrogance with Pride in the
middle.
To the right stands, Love Compassion and Peace.
You have to learn that the Pride in the middle is headless, or head
strong.
It acts without you thinking.
You must learn to cut yourself off from this Chaos and only look to
the
fruits of life.
Love conquers FEAR and EGO and Pride, but if you persist in being
head
strong you will fail.
Just as Jonah felt after the King made it a public decree, not too
eat any
meat or herb of the field, also all the animals as well for forty
days and
no water. You have just done the same as the King of Nineveh’. Broke
the
will of GOD.  GET it Sorted mate. Give up the fight. Warfare for
warfare
sake is an utter waste of time and energy. OK
IF you really want to be a child of the light and really step into
the
Kingdom of light, give up the Tobacco.
You carry a spirit of deception my friend, like a black Feline Cat.
With two
watch towers and two lights looking in two directions at the same
time.
The best of all you could ever want to be is an Centennial Spider.
One step
ahead of the rest. 8 Legs and 8 eyes, with seven senses. One step
ahead, cos
the spider has an eye for each leg, plus the seven sences of the
heart. The
8th sense is for Sentry Duty. The spider can sleep and watch at the
same
time, but only looks in one direction at in any instant. The
Centennial
Spider is not infallible, cos mass force can over come it, but it
knows that
it is only a part of the whole scale of things.
Get it sorted please my friend, for why did you take the IBOGA in the
first
place.
Ah just because you couldn’t handle the Bone Crushing Pain.
Understood. But
surely, you are no strange to pain, Pain of pleasure and Pains Pain.
It is
only a state of mind.
Give up. OK
Sorry for the hassle and I pray you forgive me for the intrusion, but
there
is just too much crap coming from you at this time. The truth hurts,
I know,
but it will set you Free my friend, Free indeed.

Strength, Power and Honour shall lead you to Respect yourself.
Firstly be truthful with yourself. Then you will be able to be
truthful with
others and not transfer you pain to them. Bless you my friend;’~///
Heartfelt love and compassion                     RESPECT Paul
:’/~’;)’

_________________________________________________________________
The new MSN Search Toolbar now includes Desktop search!
http://join.msn.com/toolbar/overview

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands:
http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]

\]=———————————————————————=[/

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html
[%]

\]=———————————————————————=[/


No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.385 / Virus Database: 268.4.0/304 – Release Date: 04/07/2006


No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.385 / Virus Database: 268.4.0/304 – Release Date: 04/07/2006

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: Vector Vector <vector620022002@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] For Preston:’~///Pray Read mate!!!
Date: April 7, 2006 at 3:27:45 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Paul it’s not that I agree or disagree with you, I have no idea what
you’re talking about because I haven’t read all the messages in the
thread you’re going off on.

I wanted to say, I loved your letter and the one before it. Whether you
ever get off drugs or not, you should think about writing religious
tracts or becoming a televangelist on a hellfire and damnation channel,
you’re f**king great!

.:vector:.

— Paul Brookshaw <jiggy9@hotmail.co.uk> wrote:

Hello Preston,
Sorry to intrude mate, but i feel i have to put you

straight on a few points.
The Lady Callie you gave the advice to. I feel you where wrong. Let
me
explain.
The point of Iboga is so that a Man may experience his Feminine
senses and
the Lady the Masculine senses. At the end of the day we are all
individuals.
To not tell people the truth or expose them in public is sinful. You
should
know from your previous experience, that most of the crap of giving
up
METHADONE AND SCAG AND MORPHINE, is FEAR.!!!
People look to you for advice cos you took IBOGA. Well mate, you
don’t seem
to realise that you have hurt people that only wanted to help you and
by
telling people not to STOP METHADONE or not to take IBOGA is only
your
ARROGANCE talking.
You couldn’t have it for yourself, so you trashed it. Absolutely
Brilliant
strategy mate. How come you didn’t think twice before putting your
brain in
gear?
So you have it all sussed Eh?
How are you doing with the DEATH WEED lolol
You wasted your money mate.
From what I have read you took HCL Before, but didn’t make it.
This is my point.
If you didn’t make it, then how can you give advice to others who are
Scared
silly of giving up.
You haven’t given up yourself. OK
If the Lady feels she is strong enough to, FLUSHIT, then that would
be her
decision.
You should of put her heart at ease, and gave her Peace. Then she
maybe
would have sort to look towards her body, talking to her, other than
her
head. Your head seems to be doing all the talking. What happened to
your
Bhakti, plus Raja. You need to take control of your own life and stop

telling others how to live theirs. Maybe it is a Career thing with
you. Cos
at the end of the day you are still the same addict, you just get
your kicks
in a different way.
I pray you see bro.
To the left hand side Stands Anger and Arrogance with Pride in the
middle.
To the right stands, Love Compassion and Peace.
You have to learn that the Pride in the middle is headless, or head
strong.
It acts without you thinking.
You must learn to cut yourself off from this Chaos and only look to
the
fruits of life.
Love conquers FEAR and EGO and Pride, but if you persist in being
head
strong you will fail.
Just as Jonah felt after the King made it a public decree, not too
eat any
meat or herb of the field, also all the animals as well for forty
days and
no water. You have just done the same as the King of Nineveh’. Broke
the
will of GOD.  GET it Sorted mate. Give up the fight. Warfare for
warfare
sake is an utter waste of time and energy. OK
IF you really want to be a child of the light and really step into
the
Kingdom of light, give up the Tobacco.
You carry a spirit of deception my friend, like a black Feline Cat.
With two
watch towers and two lights looking in two directions at the same
time.
The best of all you could ever want to be is an Centennial Spider.
One step
ahead of the rest. 8 Legs and 8 eyes, with seven senses. One step
ahead, cos
the spider has an eye for each leg, plus the seven sences of the
heart. The
8th sense is for Sentry Duty. The spider can sleep and watch at the
same
time, but only looks in one direction at in any instant. The
Centennial
Spider is not infallible, cos mass force can over come it, but it
knows that
it is only a part of the whole scale of things.
Get it sorted please my friend, for why did you take the IBOGA in the
first
place.
Ah just because you couldn’t handle the Bone Crushing Pain.
Understood. But
surely, you are no strange to pain, Pain of pleasure and Pains Pain.
It is
only a state of mind.
Give up. OK
Sorry for the hassle and I pray you forgive me for the intrusion, but
there
is just too much crap coming from you at this time. The truth hurts,
I know,
but it will set you Free my friend, Free indeed.

Strength, Power and Honour shall lead you to Respect yourself.
Firstly be truthful with yourself. Then you will be able to be
truthful with
others and not transfer you pain to them. Bless you my friend;’~///
Heartfelt love and compassion                     RESPECT Paul
:’/~’;)’

_________________________________________________________________
The new MSN Search Toolbar now includes Desktop search!
http://join.msn.com/toolbar/overview

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands:
http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]

\]=———————————————————————=[/

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: Kirk <captkirk@clear.net.nz>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] For Preston:’~///Pray Read mate!!!
Date: April 7, 2006 at 3:25:33 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

The point of Iboga is so that a Man may experience his Feminine senses and
the Lady the Masculine senses. At the end of the day we are all individuals.
To not tell people the truth or expose them in public is sinful. You should
know from your previous experience, that most of the crap of giving up
METHADONE AND SCAG AND MORPHINE, is FEAR.!!!

Hi Paul
I have to disagree with your theory of man/fem woman/masculine that’s just
far too black and white my masculine side is way out of balance I needed to
experience my feminine side more….. thus apparently, according to some why
I have all this stuff manifesting on the right hand side.
As for giving up something that CAN have a stabilising effect for an
individual when they are not ready can be more harmful and set someone
back….I’m referring to methadone here…but then again it’s a different
scene here I had a good experience this time round on it.

I don’t have it all sussed, and I know you don’t either.  You feel a little
tunnel visioned……

OH well, Onward Thru the Fog!!!!!

With love n respect to all
Cappen koiky xxx


No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.385 / Virus Database: 268.4.0/304 – Release Date: 04/07/2006

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] For Preston:’~///Pray Read mate!!!
Date: April 7, 2006 at 3:00:40 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I won’t bother replying beyond saying “whatever works for you Paul, including judging me.” If that gets you through the worst of your recovery, by all means, lay it on me. I’m here, mate.
—–
“If God dropped acid, would he see people?”  ~Steven Wright

Peace,
Preston Peet
ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor Underground- the Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations, Astonishing Archaeology and Hidden History
Editor Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Columnist HighTimes mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —– From: “Paul Brookshaw” <jiggy9@hotmail.co.uk>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Friday, April 07, 2006 1:18 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] For Preston:’~///Pray Read mate!!!

Hello Preston,
Sorry to intrude mate, but i feel i have to put you straight on a few points.
The Lady Callie you gave the advice to. I feel you where wrong. Let me explain.
The point of Iboga is so that a Man may experience his Feminine senses and the Lady the Masculine senses. At the end of the day we are all individuals.
To not tell people the truth or expose them in public is sinful. You should know from your previous experience, that most of the crap of giving up METHADONE AND SCAG AND MORPHINE, is FEAR.!!!
People look to you for advice cos you took IBOGA. Well mate, you don’t seem to realise that you have hurt people that only wanted to help you and by telling people not to STOP METHADONE or not to take IBOGA is only your ARROGANCE talking.
You couldn’t have it for yourself, so you trashed it. Absolutely Brilliant strategy mate. How come you didn’t think twice before putting your brain in gear?
So you have it all sussed Eh?
How are you doing with the DEATH WEED lolol
You wasted your money mate.
From what I have read you took HCL Before, but didn’t make it.
This is my point.
If you didn’t make it, then how can you give advice to others who are Scared silly of giving up.
You haven’t given up yourself. OK
If the Lady feels she is strong enough to, FLUSHIT, then that would be her decision.
You should of put her heart at ease, and gave her Peace. Then she maybe would have sort to look towards her body, talking to her, other than her head. Your head seems to be doing all the talking. What happened to your Bhakti, plus Raja. You need to take control of your own life and stop telling others how to live theirs. Maybe it is a Career thing with you. Cos at the end of the day you are still the same addict, you just get your kicks in a different way.
I pray you see bro.
To the left hand side Stands Anger and Arrogance with Pride in the middle. To the right stands, Love Compassion and Peace.
You have to learn that the Pride in the middle is headless, or head strong. It acts without you thinking.
You must learn to cut yourself off from this Chaos and only look to the fruits of life.
Love conquers FEAR and EGO and Pride, but if you persist in being head strong you will fail.
Just as Jonah felt after the King made it a public decree, not too eat any meat or herb of the field, also all the animals as well for forty days and no water. You have just done the same as the King of Nineveh’. Broke the will of GOD.  GET it Sorted mate. Give up the fight. Warfare for warfare sake is an utter waste of time and energy. OK
IF you really want to be a child of the light and really step into the Kingdom of light, give up the Tobacco.
You carry a spirit of deception my friend, like a black Feline Cat. With two watch towers and two lights looking in two directions at the same time.
The best of all you could ever want to be is an Centennial Spider. One step ahead of the rest. 8 Legs and 8 eyes, with seven senses. One step ahead, cos the spider has an eye for each leg, plus the seven sences of the heart. The 8th sense is for Sentry Duty. The spider can sleep and watch at the same time, but only looks in one direction at in any instant. The Centennial Spider is not infallible, cos mass force can over come it, but it knows that it is only a part of the whole scale of things.
Get it sorted please my friend, for why did you take the IBOGA in the first place.
Ah just because you couldn’t handle the Bone Crushing Pain. Understood. But surely, you are no strange to pain, Pain of pleasure and Pains Pain. It is only a state of mind.
Give up. OK
Sorry for the hassle and I pray you forgive me for the intrusion, but there is just too much crap coming from you at this time. The truth hurts, I know, but it will set you Free my friend, Free indeed.

Strength, Power and Honour shall lead you to Respect yourself.
Firstly be truthful with yourself. Then you will be able to be truthful with others and not transfer you pain to them. Bless you my friend;’~///
Heartfelt love and compassion                     RESPECT Paul :’/~’;)’

_________________________________________________________________
The new MSN Search Toolbar now includes Desktop search! http://join.msn.com/toolbar/overview

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: “Eye of the Bhogi” <freedomroot@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] this day a year ago…
Date: April 7, 2006 at 1:46:34 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

MC!  MC!  MC!
Congrats on a beautiful year, Marc!

love from qns, rachel

From: “Paul Brookshaw” <jiggy9@hotmail.co.uk>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] For Preston:’~///Pray Read mate!!!
Date: April 7, 2006 at 1:18:22 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hello Preston,
Sorry to intrude mate, but i feel i have to put you straight on a few points.
The Lady Callie you gave the advice to. I feel you where wrong. Let me explain.
The point of Iboga is so that a Man may experience his Feminine senses and the Lady the Masculine senses. At the end of the day we are all individuals.
To not tell people the truth or expose them in public is sinful. You should know from your previous experience, that most of the crap of giving up METHADONE AND SCAG AND MORPHINE, is FEAR.!!!
People look to you for advice cos you took IBOGA. Well mate, you don’t seem to realise that you have hurt people that only wanted to help you and by telling people not to STOP METHADONE or not to take IBOGA is only your ARROGANCE talking.
You couldn’t have it for yourself, so you trashed it. Absolutely Brilliant strategy mate. How come you didn’t think twice before putting your brain in gear?
So you have it all sussed Eh?
How are you doing with the DEATH WEED lolol
You wasted your money mate.
From what I have read you took HCL Before, but didn’t make it.
This is my point.
If you didn’t make it, then how can you give advice to others who are Scared silly of giving up.
You haven’t given up yourself. OK
If the Lady feels she is strong enough to, FLUSHIT, then that would be her decision.
You should of put her heart at ease, and gave her Peace. Then she maybe would have sort to look towards her body, talking to her, other than her head. Your head seems to be doing all the talking. What happened to your Bhakti, plus Raja. You need to take control of your own life and stop telling others how to live theirs. Maybe it is a Career thing with you. Cos at the end of the day you are still the same addict, you just get your kicks in a different way.
I pray you see bro.
To the left hand side Stands Anger and Arrogance with Pride in the middle. To the right stands, Love Compassion and Peace.
You have to learn that the Pride in the middle is headless, or head strong. It acts without you thinking.
You must learn to cut yourself off from this Chaos and only look to the fruits of life.
Love conquers FEAR and EGO and Pride, but if you persist in being head strong you will fail.
Just as Jonah felt after the King made it a public decree, not too eat any meat or herb of the field, also all the animals as well for forty days and no water. You have just done the same as the King of Nineveh’. Broke the will of GOD.  GET it Sorted mate. Give up the fight. Warfare for warfare sake is an utter waste of time and energy. OK
IF you really want to be a child of the light and really step into the Kingdom of light, give up the Tobacco.
You carry a spirit of deception my friend, like a black Feline Cat. With two watch towers and two lights looking in two directions at the same time.
The best of all you could ever want to be is an Centennial Spider. One step ahead of the rest. 8 Legs and 8 eyes, with seven senses. One step ahead, cos the spider has an eye for each leg, plus the seven sences of the heart. The 8th sense is for Sentry Duty. The spider can sleep and watch at the same time, but only looks in one direction at in any instant. The Centennial Spider is not infallible, cos mass force can over come it, but it knows that it is only a part of the whole scale of things.
Get it sorted please my friend, for why did you take the IBOGA in the first place.
Ah just because you couldn’t handle the Bone Crushing Pain. Understood. But surely, you are no strange to pain, Pain of pleasure and Pains Pain. It is only a state of mind.
Give up. OK
Sorry for the hassle and I pray you forgive me for the intrusion, but there is just too much crap coming from you at this time. The truth hurts, I know, but it will set you Free my friend, Free indeed.

Strength, Power and Honour shall lead you to Respect yourself.
Firstly be truthful with yourself. Then you will be able to be truthful with others and not transfer you pain to them. Bless you my friend;’~///
Heartfelt love and compassion                     RESPECT Paul :’/~’;)’

_________________________________________________________________
The new MSN Search Toolbar now includes Desktop search! http://join.msn.com/toolbar/overview

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: shelley krupa <skrupa20022002@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] this day a year ago…
Date: April 7, 2006 at 8:49:56 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

hey mark , congratulations, awesome isnt it?!!love shell

CallieMimosa@aol.com wrote:
way to go!!! it is a miracle, huh?
callie

New Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. Call regular phones from your PC and save big.

From: Kirk <captkirk@clear.net.nz>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Robotussin
Date: April 7, 2006 at 8:31:32 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Thx Jon, I guess back in my day there probly wasn’t much info to tell a
bunch of naieve bored school girls about what we were doing to
ourselves…..not even gonna mention a year here LOL.
Koiky xx

—–Original Message—–
From: jon [mailto:jon@mindvox.com]
Sent: Saturday, 8 April 2006 12:30 a.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Robotussin

no, DXM isn’t like antihistamines… actually if you read some of the
stuff on the net about taking over-the-counter DXM products to get high,
a lot of them will warn to make sure you get something that is just DXM,
without any antihistamine in it.

Taking large doses of antihistamines can be pretty dangerous. But you
have to take a good deal more DXM before anything bad happens.

Kirk wrote:
Ewwwwww,robotussin? You’re kidding me!!
When I was in boreding school me n a coupla other gals heard about “Aller
G
tabs” antihismines, im gathering robotussin is similar….. anyway we took
ten tabs each and I was tripping off n on for a couple of days.
Unfortunately one of the girls spun out and ended up in sick bay and
dropped
us all in it.  After the parental lecture it was a lovely three week
suspension holiday.  Gave me a taste for seeing things that weren’t there
though lol.  Bit rough on the system but at that age it didn’t seem to
matter too much.
The things we do ay.
I also remember going thru a stage of hyperventilating whilst crouching,
then standing up and someone squeezing the rest of your breath out of you
til ya blacked out.
Good grief, boreding school must have been boring.
Over n out
K
—–Original Message—–
From: Preston Peet [mailto:ptpeet@nyc.rr.com]
Sent: Friday, 7 April 2006 11:09 p.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] RE:anger

ROBOin’!
LOL!
Buy a 4 ounce bottle of Robotussin DM, drink the entire thing, and I
promise

you will be incredibly messed up Callie.
I did this ONCE in Tampa, me and a long-ago girlfriend, when we couldn’t
find any E or LSD one night but had our hearts set on tripping. So we
followed others’ example and drank a 4 ounce bottle each. I knew friends
who

would buy TWO of these bottles, mix them up into a 32 ounce cup of
Mountain
Dew from the local 7-11 and chug it down (ewwwww is right too btw).
Drinking

it straight was one of the toughest “get high” tricks I’ve ever
undertaken,
but I certainly did get incredibly wasted. Granted, I could gotten even
more

wasted had I drunk an 8-ounce bottle, but I found I had to hold up a lot
of
walls by leaning upon them, and was basically drunk without the alcohol. I

never felt sick (other than while trying to chug the bottle in the first
place) but I would never ever try it again- EWWWWW just about covers the
entire experience for me- though others have apparently enjoyed it a lot.
There was once even a magazine dedicated to Roboin’ but I’ve no idea if
it’s

still around, where folk would write in their experiences on Robotussin
DM.
—–
“If God dropped acid, would he see people?”  ~Steven Wright

Peace, love and lotsof respect.
Preston
ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor Underground- the Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations,
Astonishing Archaeology and Hidden History
Editor Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Columnist HighTimes mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —–
From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Thursday, April 06, 2006 11:35 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] RE:anger

In a message dated 4/4/2006 3:24:08 P.M. Central Standard Time,
a.h.veil68@hotmail.com writes:
As far as being a psychonaut, I have travelled–on mushroom, L>S>D and
Dextromethorphan to places you wouldn’t believe.
Please share with me your tripping on Dextromethorphan! Ewwwwwww! I
would’ve

never thought you could trip on that stuff! Seems like it would make you
sick before you took enough to trip! Were you taking Dextromethorphan by
itself or in a cough compound?
Callie

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html
[%]

\]=———————————————————————=[/

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html
[%]

\]=———————————————————————=[/


No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.385 / Virus Database: 268.3.5/303 – Release Date: 04/06/2006


No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.385 / Virus Database: 268.3.5/303 – Release Date: 04/06/2006

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: jon <jon@mindvox.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Robotussin
Date: April 7, 2006 at 8:29:38 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

no, DXM isn’t like antihistamines… actually if you read some of the stuff on the net about taking over-the-counter DXM products to get high, a lot of them will warn to make sure you get something that is just DXM, without any antihistamine in it.

Taking large doses of antihistamines can be pretty dangerous. But you have to take a good deal more DXM before anything bad happens.

Kirk wrote:
Ewwwwww,robotussin? You’re kidding me!!
When I was in boreding school me n a coupla other gals heard about “Aller G
tabs” antihismines, im gathering robotussin is similar….. anyway we took
ten tabs each and I was tripping off n on for a couple of days.
Unfortunately one of the girls spun out and ended up in sick bay and dropped
us all in it.  After the parental lecture it was a lovely three week
suspension holiday.  Gave me a taste for seeing things that weren’t there
though lol.  Bit rough on the system but at that age it didn’t seem to
matter too much.
The things we do ay.  I also remember going thru a stage of hyperventilating whilst crouching,
then standing up and someone squeezing the rest of your breath out of you
til ya blacked out.  Good grief, boreding school must have been boring.
Over n out
K
—–Original Message—–
From: Preston Peet [mailto:ptpeet@nyc.rr.com] Sent: Friday, 7 April 2006 11:09 p.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] RE:anger
ROBOin’!
LOL!
Buy a 4 ounce bottle of Robotussin DM, drink the entire thing, and I promise
you will be incredibly messed up Callie.
I did this ONCE in Tampa, me and a long-ago girlfriend, when we couldn’t find any E or LSD one night but had our hearts set on tripping. So we followed others’ example and drank a 4 ounce bottle each. I knew friends who
would buy TWO of these bottles, mix them up into a 32 ounce cup of Mountain Dew from the local 7-11 and chug it down (ewwwww is right too btw). Drinking
it straight was one of the toughest “get high” tricks I’ve ever undertaken, but I certainly did get incredibly wasted. Granted, I could gotten even more
wasted had I drunk an 8-ounce bottle, but I found I had to hold up a lot of walls by leaning upon them, and was basically drunk without the alcohol. I never felt sick (other than while trying to chug the bottle in the first place) but I would never ever try it again- EWWWWW just about covers the entire experience for me- though others have apparently enjoyed it a lot. There was once even a magazine dedicated to Roboin’ but I’ve no idea if it’s
still around, where folk would write in their experiences on Robotussin DM.
—–
“If God dropped acid, would he see people?”  ~Steven Wright
Peace, love and lotsof respect.
Preston
ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor Underground- the Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations, Astonishing Archaeology and Hidden History
Editor Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Columnist HighTimes mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.
—– Original Message —– From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Thursday, April 06, 2006 11:35 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] RE:anger
In a message dated 4/4/2006 3:24:08 P.M. Central Standard Time, a.h.veil68@hotmail.com writes:
As far as being a psychonaut, I have travelled–on mushroom, L>S>D and Dextromethorphan to places you wouldn’t believe.
Please share with me your tripping on Dextromethorphan! Ewwwwwww! I would’ve
never thought you could trip on that stuff! Seems like it would make you sick before you took enough to trip! Were you taking Dextromethorphan by itself or in a cough compound?
Callie  /]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html
[%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: “Sara Glatt” <sara119@xs4all.nl>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] for Pascal,
Date: April 7, 2006 at 8:20:56 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi pascal,

here you can find lots of info. about muhammad,

http://www.answering-islam.org/Shamoun/prepubescent.htm

Sara

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: jon <jon@mindvox.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] RE:anger
Date: April 7, 2006 at 8:21:27 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

www.dextroverse.org

=)

it’s been quite a while since i “robotripped”, but i always thought it felt vaguely like ketamine… DXM is derived from opiates, but it works in the brain more like a dissociative. it does retain a couple opiate-like effects though, mostly just cough suppression and making you itch.

you used to be able to buy the pure DXM powder off a number of sites on the web, but i’m not sure anymore, with all the cracking down on reseach chemicals that’s been going on…

oh, there’s also been some research into using DXM as an anti-addictive treatment, with some positive results.

Preston Peet wrote:
ROBOin’!
LOL!
Buy a 4 ounce bottle of Robotussin DM, drink the entire thing, and I promise you will be incredibly messed up Callie.
I did this ONCE in Tampa, me and a long-ago girlfriend, when we couldn’t find any E or LSD one night but had our hearts set on tripping. So we followed others’ example and drank a 4 ounce bottle each. I knew friends who would buy TWO of these bottles, mix them up into a 32 ounce cup of Mountain Dew from the local 7-11 and chug it down (ewwwww is right too btw). Drinking it straight was one of the toughest “get high” tricks I’ve ever undertaken, but I certainly did get incredibly wasted. Granted, I could gotten even more wasted had I drunk an 8-ounce bottle, but I found I had to hold up a lot of walls by leaning upon them, and was basically drunk without the alcohol. I never felt sick (other than while trying to chug the bottle in the first place) but I would never ever try it again- EWWWWW just about covers the entire experience for me- though others have apparently enjoyed it a lot. There was once even a magazine dedicated to Roboin’ but I’ve no idea if it’s still around, where folk would write in their experiences on Robotussin DM.
—–
“If God dropped acid, would he see people?”  ~Steven Wright
Peace, love and lotsof respect.
Preston
ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor Underground- the Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations, Astonishing Archaeology and Hidden History
Editor Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Columnist HighTimes mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.
—– Original Message —– From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Thursday, April 06, 2006 11:35 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] RE:anger
In a message dated 4/4/2006 3:24:08 P.M. Central Standard Time, a.h.veil68@hotmail.com writes:
As far as being a psychonaut, I have travelled–on mushroom, L>S>D and Dextromethorphan to places you wouldn’t believe.
Please share with me your tripping on Dextromethorphan! Ewwwwwww! I would’ve never thought you could trip on that stuff! Seems like it would make you sick before you took enough to trip! Were you taking Dextromethorphan by itself or in a cough compound?
Callie
/]=———————————————————————=[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] this day a year ago…
Date: April 7, 2006 at 6:56:52 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

good to read such a positive message first thing in the morning. Thanks Mark, and congrats. Call me sometime.

—–
“If God dropped acid, would he see people?”  ~Steven Wright

Peace, love and lotsof respect.
Preston
ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor Underground- the Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations, Astonishing Archaeology and Hidden History
Editor Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Columnist HighTimes mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —– From: Mark Corcoran
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Thursday, April 06, 2006 7:17 PM
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] this day a year ago…

This day a year ago I was buying 5 bags of dope… they were my last.
Words couldn’t describe how grateful I feel to be one of the lucky few.
Howard, Eric, Dana, Chris & D., My mom, Ali, Joe and Shirl…and moonbeam, dodi, Rocky, Randy’s, tink, Patrick, Dr. Ken, Kurt, Tink, Sara, Adam, Eddie, Preston, the Queens Crew, and everyone else out there, Thank you from the bottom of my heart.
I know its only 365 days but its a milestone and i’m pretty fuckin happy to have reached it. I’m also kinda happy to put this year behind me. As anyone I mentioned b4 can attest to, I totally unraveled emotionally after my last session and had to completely start over. In a nut shell, I’m kinda lucky I’m alive after the year I’ve had. But I really have kinda hung in there and pushed though a lot of the uncomfortable shit and I can’t say exactly when things started to click but they did…or they are. I’m far from the pictue of health but I really do continue to get a little better all the time. Two steps forward one step back kinda thing I guess. But one year ago today I wanted to die and now i’m pretty fuckin happy to be alive.
This stuff is somethin else.

From: jiggy9@hotmail.co.uk
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Date: Thu, 6 Apr 2006 21:23:39 +0100
Subject: [Ibogaine] Looking to mud and gold with an equal eye;)’~

Good Evening to all you people, love and respect to most but,
Ok all you great Men who think they know it all. how does this sit with you.
you all seem to be greedy little men. ok Judge and be judged but you play
and tally. Listen i pray and listen good. there are seven paths that any man
may walk, through masculine and feminine existence with self. You seek
enlightenment. you have the divine writings, but you do not practice them.
So i shall refresh your memories. OK!!! ‘I’ I am a MAN, not a Robot and
therefore feel and see and hear and touch and love and fulfill my desires
there is no want within my kingdom. I feel you are many greedy little men of
lusts that only want to control.
Pray read and start again.
There is no meditation apart from wisdom.

Those whose hearts are in a state of repose give forth a divine radiance.

He who is Rich in control renounces everything.

Truth Honesty, just, pure, lovely, of good report, if there be any virtue
and any praise, think of these things. Give thanks for what you have.

Meditate on thy own Lord in thine own mind with humility and do not create
warfare.

Sit and be still.

Good one, Whosoever among men attains greatness, they have, as it were, part
of the reward of meditation, Reverence, Respect.

So there you go. by meditating on the word and staying out of ego and power
trips, thou shalt be unaffected by the world.

Keep things simple folks,

Drink the water, eat the food. Want for nothing, fulfill your desires and
remember, I pray, that you can’t eat Sunday Dinner without Gravy, it is too
damn dry lololol  Grace!!!

How can you have any pudding if you don’t eat your meat. Well i can tell you
that it all does not matter in the end in the great scale of things. Atoms
move, molecules combine, just be and accept.

Do not harry warfare for warfare sake as you waste your time and energy.

The true key is just to think twice and feel that you have made the right
decision.

Spiritual and physiological ping pong.

Ah Flob a LOb a LOB,  Little WEEEEED. I am not a flower pot man and some of
you should leave my friends alone ok?                                 You
know who you are.

Peace and respect will bring you to bliss beyond any imagined feelings of
fear.

I retire to eat, laters folks. I pray i woke some of you up and put some
light and meaning back into your existences. lololol

Black feline cat, sees in two watch towers with two lanterns at the same
time. This is deception. For to worship two Gods at the same time is Mammon.
The Egyptians used these tools as slavery the same as governments and
agencies use Methadone as social control.

How can you sell cakes in the Church. lolol

Get the Syrians out of your camp.

Ok enough for now. you are all welcome to comment but remember the truth
hurts.

Out of my own ignorance today, cos i thought someone was sincere, I was
robbed. no matter i shall replace it. It was only a chattel. But I shall ask
and see of the person to see what they will try and use to protect
themselves. The ring was a silver three pence piece set in a crown. ah sweet
charity. You carry no chain, my love my Sweat.;
It was given me by a departed friend as remembrance.

Come sit Partake, Refresh, drink, BE!!!  Sated:)

At last I am a Warrior mighty in Battle.
Dinner:)’

Selah’

Paul:)

Strength, Power, Honour, Respect. Be good to yourselves people and remember
self love is not selfish. You do not need Warfare for Warfare sake.’!!!
Peace’

_________________________________________________________________
Be the first to hear what’s new at MSN – sign up to our free newsletters!
http://www.msn.co.uk/newsletters

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: Kirk <captkirk@clear.net.nz>
Subject: [Ibogaine] bankruptcy
Date: April 7, 2006 at 8:14:54 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Just a little queery has anyone on this list ever filed for bankruptcy?
Something I am considering at this point in my life.
Would appreciate any feedback.
Koiky xx


No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.385 / Virus Database: 268.3.5/303 – Release Date: 04/06/2006

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: Kirk <captkirk@clear.net.nz>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Robotussin
Date: April 7, 2006 at 8:00:42 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Antihistamines I meant to write….


No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.385 / Virus Database: 268.3.5/303 – Release Date: 04/06/2006

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: Kirk <captkirk@clear.net.nz>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] (ot) Fw: ghosts in the mist
Date: April 7, 2006 at 8:00:04 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hehehhe, thx for that, I sent it to a mate who watched it TWICE and still
shat himself!!! Hahahahahahaha brilliant!!!

—–Original Message—–
From: Preston Peet [mailto:ptpeet@nyc.rr.com]
Sent: Friday, 7 April 2006 10:35 p.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] (ot) Fw: ghosts in the mist

LOL, funny, that was my exact reaction too Cpt.
After I cleaned off my seat of course.

—–
“If God dropped acid, would he see people?”  ~Steven Wright

Peace, love and lotsof respect.
Preston
ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor Underground- the Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations,
Astonishing Archaeology and Hidden History
Editor Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Columnist HighTimes mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —–
From: “Kirk” <captkirk@clear.net.nz>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Thursday, April 06, 2006 4:16 PM
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] (ot) Fw: ghosts in the mist

Thx Preston!!
I was a little wound up this morning, but that was so nice n soothing.
Think I can go lie down now for a while……
CK

—–Original Message—–
From: Preston Peet [mailto:ptpeet@nyc.rr.com]
Sent: Thursday, 6 April 2006 10:30 p.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com; drugwar@mindvox.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] (ot) Fw: ghosts in the mist

This is pretty off topic, but hey, we all get our buzzes in different
ways.
Right?
Remember you need to read the story first, then turn your volume up so you
can hear “the cameraman whispering” about the ghost.
;-0))

—–
“If God dropped acid, would he see people?”  ~Steven Wright

Peace, love and lotsof respect.
Preston Peet
ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor Underground- the Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations,
Astonishing Archaeology and Hidden History
Editor Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Columnist HighTimes mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —–
From: Gabriela Vuichoud
Sent: Thursday, April 06, 2006 2:38 AM
Subject: ghosts in the mist

You MUST READ THE STORY BEFORE WATCHING THE VIDEO – volume required

Strange but interesting.
This is a car advertisement from Great Britain.
When they finished filming the ad, the film editor noticed something
moving along the side of the car, like a ghostly white mist. They found
out
that a person had been killed a year earlier in that exact same spot.

The ad was never put on TV because of the unexplained ghostly
phenomenon.

Watch the front end of the car as it clears the trees in the middle of
the screen and you’ll see the white mist crossing in front of the car then
following it along the road….Spooky!

Is it a ghost, or is it simply mist? You decide.

If you listen to the ad, you’ll even hear the cameraman whispering in
the background about it near the end of the commercial.

CLINIQUE LA PRAIRIE
Gabriela Vuichoud
snip-

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html
[%]

\]=———————————————————————=[/

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html
[%]

\]=———————————————————————=[/


No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.385 / Virus Database: 268.3.5/303 – Release Date: 04/06/2006


No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.385 / Virus Database: 268.3.5/303 – Release Date: 04/06/2006

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: Kirk <captkirk@clear.net.nz>
Subject: [Ibogaine] Robotussin
Date: April 7, 2006 at 7:59:22 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Ewwwwww,robotussin? You’re kidding me!!
When I was in boreding school me n a coupla other gals heard about “Aller G
tabs” antihismines, im gathering robotussin is similar….. anyway we took
ten tabs each and I was tripping off n on for a couple of days.
Unfortunately one of the girls spun out and ended up in sick bay and dropped
us all in it.  After the parental lecture it was a lovely three week
suspension holiday.  Gave me a taste for seeing things that weren’t there
though lol.  Bit rough on the system but at that age it didn’t seem to
matter too much.
The things we do ay.
I also remember going thru a stage of hyperventilating whilst crouching,
then standing up and someone squeezing the rest of your breath out of you
til ya blacked out.
Good grief, boreding school must have been boring.
Over n out
K
—–Original Message—–
From: Preston Peet [mailto:ptpeet@nyc.rr.com]
Sent: Friday, 7 April 2006 11:09 p.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] RE:anger

ROBOin’!
LOL!
Buy a 4 ounce bottle of Robotussin DM, drink the entire thing, and I promise

you will be incredibly messed up Callie.
I did this ONCE in Tampa, me and a long-ago girlfriend, when we couldn’t
find any E or LSD one night but had our hearts set on tripping. So we
followed others’ example and drank a 4 ounce bottle each. I knew friends who

would buy TWO of these bottles, mix them up into a 32 ounce cup of Mountain
Dew from the local 7-11 and chug it down (ewwwww is right too btw). Drinking

it straight was one of the toughest “get high” tricks I’ve ever undertaken,
but I certainly did get incredibly wasted. Granted, I could gotten even more

wasted had I drunk an 8-ounce bottle, but I found I had to hold up a lot of
walls by leaning upon them, and was basically drunk without the alcohol. I
never felt sick (other than while trying to chug the bottle in the first
place) but I would never ever try it again- EWWWWW just about covers the
entire experience for me- though others have apparently enjoyed it a lot.
There was once even a magazine dedicated to Roboin’ but I’ve no idea if it’s

still around, where folk would write in their experiences on Robotussin DM.
—–
“If God dropped acid, would he see people?”  ~Steven Wright

Peace, love and lotsof respect.
Preston
ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor Underground- the Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations,
Astonishing Archaeology and Hidden History
Editor Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Columnist HighTimes mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —–
From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Thursday, April 06, 2006 11:35 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] RE:anger

In a message dated 4/4/2006 3:24:08 P.M. Central Standard Time,
a.h.veil68@hotmail.com writes:
As far as being a psychonaut, I have travelled–on mushroom, L>S>D and
Dextromethorphan to places you wouldn’t believe.
Please share with me your tripping on Dextromethorphan! Ewwwwwww! I would’ve

never thought you could trip on that stuff! Seems like it would make you
sick before you took enough to trip! Were you taking Dextromethorphan by
itself or in a cough compound?
Callie

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html
[%]

\]=———————————————————————=[/


No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.385 / Virus Database: 268.3.5/303 – Release Date: 04/06/2006


No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.385 / Virus Database: 268.3.5/303 – Release Date: 04/06/2006

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] (ot) Fw: ghosts in the mist
Date: April 7, 2006 at 6:34:40 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

LOL, funny, that was my exact reaction too Cpt.
After I cleaned off my seat of course.

—–
“If God dropped acid, would he see people?”  ~Steven Wright

Peace, love and lotsof respect.
Preston
ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor Underground- the Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations, Astonishing Archaeology and Hidden History
Editor Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Columnist HighTimes mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —– From: “Kirk” <captkirk@clear.net.nz>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Thursday, April 06, 2006 4:16 PM
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] (ot) Fw: ghosts in the mist

Thx Preston!!
I was a little wound up this morning, but that was so nice n soothing.
Think I can go lie down now for a while……
CK

—–Original Message—–
From: Preston Peet [mailto:ptpeet@nyc.rr.com]
Sent: Thursday, 6 April 2006 10:30 p.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com; drugwar@mindvox.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] (ot) Fw: ghosts in the mist

This is pretty off topic, but hey, we all get our buzzes in different ways.
Right?
Remember you need to read the story first, then turn your volume up so you
can hear “the cameraman whispering” about the ghost.
;-0))

—–
“If God dropped acid, would he see people?”  ~Steven Wright

Peace, love and lotsof respect.
Preston Peet
ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor Underground- the Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations,
Astonishing Archaeology and Hidden History
Editor Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Columnist HighTimes mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —– From: Gabriela Vuichoud
Sent: Thursday, April 06, 2006 2:38 AM
Subject: ghosts in the mist

You MUST READ THE STORY BEFORE WATCHING THE VIDEO – volume required

Strange but interesting.
This is a car advertisement from Great Britain.
When they finished filming the ad, the film editor noticed something
moving along the side of the car, like a ghostly white mist. They found out
that a person had been killed a year earlier in that exact same spot.

The ad was never put on TV because of the unexplained ghostly
phenomenon.

Watch the front end of the car as it clears the trees in the middle of
the screen and you’ll see the white mist crossing in front of the car then
following it along the road….Spooky!

Is it a ghost, or is it simply mist? You decide.

If you listen to the ad, you’ll even hear the cameraman whispering in
the background about it near the end of the commercial.

CLINIQUE LA PRAIRIE
Gabriela Vuichoud
snip-

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] RE:anger
Date: April 7, 2006 at 7:09:18 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

ROBOin’!
LOL!
Buy a 4 ounce bottle of Robotussin DM, drink the entire thing, and I promise you will be incredibly messed up Callie.
I did this ONCE in Tampa, me and a long-ago girlfriend, when we couldn’t find any E or LSD one night but had our hearts set on tripping. So we followed others’ example and drank a 4 ounce bottle each. I knew friends who would buy TWO of these bottles, mix them up into a 32 ounce cup of Mountain Dew from the local 7-11 and chug it down (ewwwww is right too btw). Drinking it straight was one of the toughest “get high” tricks I’ve ever undertaken, but I certainly did get incredibly wasted. Granted, I could gotten even more wasted had I drunk an 8-ounce bottle, but I found I had to hold up a lot of walls by leaning upon them, and was basically drunk without the alcohol. I never felt sick (other than while trying to chug the bottle in the first place) but I would never ever try it again- EWWWWW just about covers the entire experience for me- though others have apparently enjoyed it a lot. There was once even a magazine dedicated to Roboin’ but I’ve no idea if it’s still around, where folk would write in their experiences on Robotussin DM.
—–
“If God dropped acid, would he see people?”  ~Steven Wright

Peace, love and lotsof respect.
Preston
ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor Underground- the Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations, Astonishing Archaeology and Hidden History
Editor Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Columnist HighTimes mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —– From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Thursday, April 06, 2006 11:35 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] RE:anger

In a message dated 4/4/2006 3:24:08 P.M. Central Standard Time, a.h.veil68@hotmail.com writes:
As far as being a psychonaut, I have travelled–on mushroom, L>S>D and Dextromethorphan to places you wouldn’t believe.
Please share with me your tripping on Dextromethorphan! Ewwwwwww! I would’ve never thought you could trip on that stuff! Seems like it would make you sick before you took enough to trip! Were you taking Dextromethorphan by itself or in a cough compound?
Callie

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] this day a year ago…
Date: April 7, 2006 at 7:32:05 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Northern forces under Gen. Grant defeated the Confederate forces at the battle of Shiloh today too Mark, only that was back in 1862.
So you share an auspicious date with history.
—–
“If God dropped acid, would he see people?”  ~Steven Wright

Peace, love and lotsof respect.
Preston Peet
ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor Underground- the Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations, Astonishing Archaeology and Hidden History
Editor Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Columnist HighTimes mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —– From: Guy Bragge
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Friday, April 07, 2006 3:52 AM
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] this day a year ago…

Way to go Mark!!! Just what I needed to hear, it can be done.
Keep it up.and thanks for the inspiration.
Guy

From: Mark Corcoran [mailto:mcorcoran27@hotmail.com]
Sent: 07 April 2006 01:18
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] this day a year ago…

This day a year ago I was buying 5 bags of dope… they were my last.
Words couldn’t describe how grateful I feel to be one of the lucky few.
Howard, Eric, Dana, Chris & D., My mom, Ali, Joe and Shirl…and moonbeam, dodi, Rocky, Randy’s, tink, Patrick, Dr. Ken, Kurt, Tink, Sara, Adam, Eddie, Preston, the Queens Crew, and everyone else out there, Thank you from the bottom of my heart.
I know its only 365 days but its a milestone and i’m pretty fuckin happy to have reached it. I’m also kinda happy to put this year behind me. As anyone I mentioned b4 can attest to, I totally unraveled emotionally after my last session and had to completely start over. In a nut shell, I’m kinda lucky I’m alive after the year I’ve had. But I really have kinda hung in there and pushed though a lot of the uncomfortable shit and I can’t say exactly when things started to click but they did…or they are. I’m far from the pictue of health but I really do continue to get a little better all the time. Two steps forward one step back kinda thing I guess. But one year ago today I wanted to die and now i’m pretty fuckin happy to be alive.
This stuff is somethin else.

From: jiggy9@hotmail.co.uk
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Date: Thu, 6 Apr 2006 21:23:39 +0100
Subject: [Ibogaine] Looking to mud and gold with an equal eye;)’~

Good Evening to all you people, love and respect to most but,
Ok all you great Men who think they know it all. how does this sit with you.
you all seem to be greedy little men. ok Judge and be judged but you play
and tally. Listen i pray and listen good. there are seven paths that any man
may walk, through masculine and feminine existence with self. You seek
enlightenment. you have the divine writings, but you do not practice them.
So i shall refresh your memories. OK!!! ‘I’ I am a MAN, not a Robot and
therefore feel and see and hear and touch and love and fulfill my desires
there is no want within my kingdom. I feel you are many greedy little men of
lusts that only want to control.
Pray read and start again.
There is no meditation apart from wisdom.

Those whose hearts are in a state of repose give forth a divine radiance.

He who is Rich in control renounces everything.

Truth Honesty, just, pure, lovely, of good report, if there be any virtue
and any praise, think of these things. Give thanks for what you have.

Meditate on thy own Lord in thine own mind with humility and do not create
warfare.

Sit and be still.

Good one, Whosoever among men attains greatness, they have, as it were, part
of the reward of meditation, Reverence, Respect.

So there you go. by meditating on the word and staying out of ego and power
trips, thou shalt be unaffected by the world.

Keep things simple folks,

Drink the water, eat the food. Want for nothing, fulfill your desires and
remember, I pray, that you can’t eat Sunday Dinner without Gravy, it is too
damn dry lololol  Grace!!!

How can you have any pudding if you don’t eat your meat. Well i can tell you
that it all does not matter in the end in the great scale of things. Atoms
move, molecules combine, just be and accept.

Do not harry warfare for warfare sake as you waste your time and energy.

The true key is just to think twice and feel that you have made the right
decision.

Spiritual and physiological ping pong.

Ah Flob a LOb a LOB,  Little WEEEEED. I am not a flower pot man and some of
you should leave my friends alone ok?                                 You
know who you are.

Peace and respect will bring you to bliss beyond any imagined feelings of
fear.

I retire to eat, laters folks. I pray i woke some of you up and put some
light and meaning back into your existences. lololol

Black feline cat, sees in two watch towers with two lanterns at the same
time. This is deception. For to worship two Gods at the same time is Mammon.
The Egyptians used these tools as slavery the same as governments and
agencies use Methadone as social control.

How can you sell cakes in the Church. lolol

Get the Syrians out of your camp.

Ok enough for now. you are all welcome to comment but remember the truth
hurts.

Out of my own ignorance today, cos i thought someone was sincere, I was
robbed. no matter i shall replace it. It was only a chattel. But I shall ask
and see of the person to see what they will try and use to protect
themselves. The ring was a silver three pence piece set in a crown. ah sweet
charity. You carry no chain, my love my Sweat.;
It was given me by a departed friend as remembrance.

Come sit Partake, Refresh, drink, BE!!!  Sated:)

At last I am a Warrior mighty in Battle.
Dinner:)’

Selah’

Paul:)

Strength, Power, Honour, Respect. Be good to yourselves people and remember
self love is not selfish. You do not need Warfare for Warfare sake.’!!!
Peace’

_________________________________________________________________
Be the first to hear what’s new at MSN – sign up to our free newsletters!
http://www.msn.co.uk/newsletters

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] OT! Eating cattle or food
Date: April 7, 2006 at 6:32:25 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

A much more eloquent and well argued statement Case than any I made to this point, so thanks for posting such a well-thought out statement.
Wish I’d found these words in MY head.
;-))

—–
“If God dropped acid, would he see people?”  ~Steven Wright

Peace, love and lotsof respect.
Preston Peet
ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor Underground- the Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations, Astonishing Archaeology and Hidden History
Editor Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Columnist HighTimes mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —– From: Tyler Case
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Thursday, April 06, 2006 3:24 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] OT! Eating cattle or food

Preston, I like your analogy to addiction.  Of course, its different because we’re not talking about continuosly doing something despite knowledge of personal harm (though there are some harms in eating a lot of meat, and of course some extrapersonal harm in many cases of addiction), but rather compassion for another, which takes some effort to muster (until you change your diet and it becomes habitual).

To take AA’s approach, we can look at it one meal at a time.  Think how tasty a plate of fried chicken would be right now.  Think about the sensual satisfaction you would experience while eating it, and for those few blissful minutes after you’ve finished the plate before you start thinking about food again.   Then think about the chicken who had to suffer from hatching to maturity only to be chopped up, deep fried and served with honey mustard.  The ratio of Fried Chicken serving: Chicken is only about 2:1.  Is it really worth it to sacrifice a chicken every 2 times you want some KFC, which will cause only temporary satisfaction and some detrament to health? To me, anyone who seriously considers this logically will see that is out of balance, but then again the urge to eat meat is probably strong enough to tilt the balance back in the direction of carnivory in most cases.  I don’t think its that humans are cold-hearted, its that we’re detached from the process.  The process would have a lot more salience if you had to go out and kill the chicken yourself.  I actually don’t feel so terrible about people hunting down a deer (which doesn’t suffer its entire life) and eating it, as long as they don’t waste it.  I admit that if I was starving and the only thing around was a rabbit, I would probably chuck a rock at it and cook it up to stay alive, but that is a lot different than treating an animal as a factory-produced pleasure to be enjoyed several times a day.  We don’t really think about our food because we don’t have to, and that’s dangerous.

Defenders of eating meat often say that human life is worth more than an animal’s life.  And while that may be right, or at least difficult to argue against, it is not a realistic reflection of the process.  A thoughtful meat-eater should instead say that “The satisfaction of eating two meals is worth more than animal’s life.”  Or “A human life with burgers and fried chicken is worth more than 10,000 animals’ lives and suffering.”  Don’t hold me to the math, but I’m sure you get the idea.

Tyler

On 4/6/06, Nick Sandberg <nick227@tiscali.co.uk> wrote:
Alan,

Personally, I don’t think you give a shit about animals. Seems to me like it’s just a lever you use to condemn people. You’re riddled with trips you can’t own yet and so you just project them randomly on people by starting little arguments everywhere, giving you the opportunity to lay in to them with a bit of condemnation. Well, that’s not so bad but I don’t feel anything in you like you give a shit. It’s just like a giant mind firing off into space. Can’t go anywhere, man.

Nick

From: Alan Hehe [mailto:a.h.veil68@hotmail.com]
Sent: 06 April 2006 00:00
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] OT! Eating cattle or food

Jon–
I hope you are kidding about brocolli feeling pain. That must be put there for a laugh.
This will probably be my last post, so I will say this: From debating in high school and different forums, and just from alot of research, I’ve learned one thing beyond any doubt: Anyone can make an argument, for or against, any idea, belief, or position–often using the same data. If you believe eating meat is okay, you will tend to gather evidence to support your belief, and exclude evidence that negates it. If you believe eating meat is wrong, the same is true. It’s not so much that I believe eating meat itself is wrong, it’s more that I feel we’re holding ourselves back from evolving spiritually and emotionally, from finding peace, by the way we treat our “food”–which is living, breathing, caring animals who are put to death and kept in the most inhumane fashions possible, all because we believe we are better than them, and since they are “only food”, it doesn’t matter how they are treated. But if you lock a cute little dog in a hot car for half a day, you can go to jail for that. We only want to save the cute animals. But we think nothin of the bull who gets his balls cut off with a knife without a drop of painkiller…and we’re egotistic enough to say..”ahh, he doesn’t feel anything.” But yet people like Bill are sure like a foetus, even though it’s C.N.S. isn’t even developed, the nerve endings aren’t formed yet, it must be going through agony.
So, you can make an argument for just about anything…but you have to live with the consequences if you turn out to be wrong.

From:   jon@mindvox.com

Reply-To:  ibogaine@mindvox.com
To:  ibogaine@mindvox.com

Subject:  Re: [Ibogaine] OT! Eating cattle or food
Date:  Wed, 5 Apr 2006 16:05:29 -0400 (EDT)

Well, ok… I’ll go through this point by point…

Not all plants feel pain, but some do… e.g., broccoli. Likewise, while
most animals do feel pain, not all do.. e.g. assorted types of shellfish.
Again, the line between plant and animal is not as clear cut as people
make it out to be.

As for the heart attacks, it is true that meat-eaters are more likely to
suffer from that, as well as from assorted food poisonings and infections
transmitted by tainted meat. But non-meat-eaters are more likely to suffer
from depression, anemia, and assorted other ailments. So, it’s a trade
off.

Your argument about our digestive system is completely off base. It’s
actually easier for humans (and other primates) to digest meat than to
digest plant matter. The main reason is that plant cells have tough cell
walls, while animal cells do not. Our digestive system is not set up to
get optimal nutrition from plants; for that we would need a digestive
system more similar to a cow (i.e., multiple stomachs, cud-chewing, longer
intenstines, etc.) This is why, for example, when you eat corn it comes
out whole at the other end. Humans are not especially good at digesting
most plant matter.

Based purely on our biology, humans are set up to be omnivores.  This is
because our digestive system has characterstics of both carnivores (e.g. a
single stomach and canines) and herbivores (e.g. molars). The length of
our digestive system is much shorter than that of pure herbivores, but
longer than that of pure carnivores. Optimal human nutrition is best
acheived by eating a balanced diet of animals and plants.

I do conceed that the way industrialised nations go about farming meat is
pretty brutal. But then, so is the way industrialised nations go about
farming plants as well.

And so is the way industrialised nations do most things, for that matter..

>   Hey–
>    Just wanted to say that, asides from clams or mussells maybe, plants > do
> not have a C>N>S and do not experience pain like animals, who have pain
> receptors just like we do. Also, there are other reasons for not eating
> meat: like health reasons…Meat eaters have about a 35-40% chance of
> dying from a heart attack do their diet, while vegetarians only have
> about 5% chance. That’s quite a difference.
>      Furthermore–yes, plants are alive! That’s the whole idea! You only
> obtain true life energy from living things! The meat you eat has been
> dead for God only knows how long, has very little nutritional value.
> Also, because we have a digestive track that’s over 20 feet long,
> alot of the meat you eat rots in your intestines, releasing all kinds
> of nasty toxins. In addition, when animals are slaughtered in the
> mass murder method we use, they’re not so stupid that they don’t know
> what’s going on…Animals (just like the animal called a dog) are
> very keen at sensing fear, not just within us, but within their own
> ranks. As they approach their death, they are terrified, and release
> a multitude of chemicals into their bloodstreams, which, when we eat,
> have an effect on us…mainly anger and fear, which are closely
> linked.
>     Well, I have to go…You have the choice to eat whatever you want..I
> used to eat meat, and still do occasionally…but I swear to you that
> I feel a hundred times lighter since I started eating less meat, and
> alot more full of life. And if you don’t think I know what I’m talking
> about, here a guy that was kinda smart, and his take on vegetarianism
> vs. eating meat:
> “Nothing will benefit health and increase the chances of survival of > life
> on Earth as the evoloution to a vegetarian diet..”—Albert Einstein.
>
>      From:  jon@mindvox.com

> Reply-To:  ibogaine@mindvox.com
> To:   ibogaine@mindvox.com

> Subject:  Re: [Ibogaine] OT! Eating cattle or food
> Date:  Wed, 5 Apr 2006 14:24:56 -0400 (EDT)

>>potatoes have eyes too =P
>>
>>i remember this punk song about how silly it is that vegetarians, for
>>example, don’t eat clams… because clams have essentially the same kind
>>of nervous system as broccoli and cauliflower…
>>
>>the line between plant and animal is not an entirely clear one.. and the
>>decision to eat plants but not animals seems to me a pretty arbitrary
>> one.
>>plants are living, breathing, and to some degree, thinking creatures as
>>well. but they get no love from PETA…
>>

>>i guess my basic point is.. eat whatever you’re  comfortable with. but

>>realise that whatever you eat, ANYTHING you eat, inflicts suffering on
>>some creature.
>>
>>such is the nature of life.
>>
>>

>>ahaha… speaking of PETA, i saw the best bumper sticker a couple weeks
>>ago….eheh… it said:
>>
>>”PETA – People Eating Tasty Animals”
>>
>>=)
>>
>>oh, and one more thing… as for the whole pet vs. food argument… i
>> know
>>for a fact that if my cat ever got the chance, he would totally eat me.
>> so
>>i don’t wanna hear it.. =P
>>
>>
>> > for me eating meat in a society where it’s unnecessary merely >> > promotes
>> the
>> > fear/bloodthirsty addiction so prevalent in the Western world. I can
>> see
>> > eating meat in a society where there are no alternatives, but where I
>> live
>> > it’s easy to not eat meat, and I’m  glad.
>> > I still do dairy and eggs, but can’t eat anything that might lick >> > it’s
>> > fellow beings, or nuzzle them, or communicate in any way, shape or
>> form
>> > with
>> > one another, even chickens (which I’ve been told are ok to eat >> > because
>> > “they’re stupid.” If that were the only criteria for being ok to eat,
>> I’d
>> > be
>> > a cannibal). Again, this is only my own viewpoint, but there seems to
>> be
>> > something unenlightened, to me, how some folk can have “pets” but >> > call
>> > cattle mere “food,” making no connection to the living, breathing,
>> > thinking
>> > creatures sharing the planet with us.
>> >
>> > Butt, and it’s a great big butt, I can’t really fault anyone for >> > their
>> > eating habits beyond stating how I personally feel, particularly >> > about
>> >  factory farming, inhumane treatment of our “food” and the wonton
>> slaughter
>> > of living creatures when it isn’t necessary for our survival, only to
>> feed
>> > our addiction to blood and flesh these days (Of course one couuld >> > take
>> > this
>> > to extreme and tell me plants are also living, but I limit my empathy
>> and
>> > eating ban to beings with eys I guess).
>> >     That’s because I’m…pro-choice at heart.
>> >
>> > —–
>> > “If God dropped acid, would he see people?”  ~Steven Wright
>> >
>> > Peace, love and lotsof respect.
>> > Preston Peet
>> > ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
>> > Editor Underground- the Disinformation Guide to Ancient >> > Civilizations,
>> > Astonishing Archaeology and Hidden History
>> > Editor Under the Influence- the  Disinformation Guide to Drugs
>> > Editor http://www.drugwar.com
>> > Columnist HighTimes mag/.com
>> > Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
>> > Columnist New York Waste
>> > Etc.
>> >
>> > —– Original Message —–
>> > From: Crooked Eye
>> > To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
>> > Sent: Tuesday, April 04, 2006 3:53 AM
>> > Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Whats a Republican?
>> >
>> >
>> > Cow’s are tasty…  If we aren’t supposed to eat animals, then why >> > are
>> > they
>> > made out of meat?  😀  I fail how to see eating cows equates to
>> racism…
>> > I
>> > eat a lot of cows, but I have a mixed family…  If it makes you feel
>> any
>> > better we eat a lot of chickens, too..  I love turkey, the >> > tryptophan
>> > makes
>> > me sleepy…
>> >
>> > Alan Hehe  wrote:
>> >    Don’t call me Baby…well, you can…since you’re not close enough
>> for
>> > me
>> > to do anything about it! Plus, that’s a freedom, too…Just like my
>> > ability
>> > to talk about pro-choice. As for your information, no, I don’t think
>> the
>> > way
>> > the abortion system is set up–but I absolutely believe in having the
>> > right…And no, you don’t have 9 months to decide whether to have the
>> rug
>> > rat or not–there is a cut-off, a limit to when abortions can be
>> > performed.
>> >      And so you think, because cows aren’t pets, or aren’t ‘cute’,
>> then
>> > it’s
>> > okay to torture them?  And to cut the balls of bulls off without any
>> > anesthetic? To make chickens live in a cage so small they can barely
>> turn
>> > around? And George Bush–wanting to save lives! LOL! That’s the
>> biggest
>> > joke
>> > I’ve ever heard! But it figures; you’re not special..alot of the
>> people in
>> > this country are brain-washed by the constant disinformation they are
>> > fed….Why do you think there are a hundred commercials warning of >> > the
>> > dangers of marijuana, one of the least harmful drugs known to man, >> > but
>> yet
>> > maybe one out of those hundred about the truly dangerous drugs, like >> > H
>> or
>> > Coke?
>> >        And you don’t have to be a hindu to have compassion for >> > animals
>> > other
>> > than cats and dogs, you dumb-ass red-neck! In some places  they eat
>> > dogs…would that be okay if they ate your dog? You know, I’m totally
>> > wasting my time talking to you, I can already tell that you are way
>> > undereducated, extremely prejudiced. Cows are just food. Are blacks
>> just
>> > niggers, too? God, I can’t stand fuckin’ red-necks like you,
>> especially
>> > the
>> > ones that actually think they’re smart. Once you start doing away >> > with
>> > freedoms, it’s all down-hill. Who’s going to decide what’s right and
>> > wrong?
>> > You?! I would happily put a hollow-point 45 shell into my head if >> > that
>> > possibility existed..of course G.W.B. is quite the redneck himself,
>> which
>> > is
>> > why you probably like him. First of all, HE’s not fighting for
>> anything. I
>> > have respect for the soldiers; they don’t decide the mission,  they
>> just do
>> > what they’re told. And how many babies do you think die while we were
>> > waging
>> > a war we were totally lied to about? Or is that okay? You think the
>> babies
>> > over there even know what a terrorist is? This world is already
>> > over-populated..if people like you ran things, the world would run >> > out
>> of
>> > resources within a decade! The oh so precious children! Everyone
>> starts
>> > out
>> > as a child..some people, like you, remain one, in their minds, their
>> whole
>> > life. But those sweet children often grow up to be killers and
>> rapists,
>> > and
>> > often for no apparent reason!  Strong belief does only one thing:
>> close
>> > your
>> > mind. Boy, that ibogaine is gonna have fun with you!!!!! Cows are >> > just
>> > food!
>> > Well, we’re  just food, too…if a grizzly decides you look good! >> > God,
>> what
>> > egotism!  You claim to be a Christian (I do not) but you must have
>> misssed
>> > the part about not judging lest you be judged yourself…And I bet
>> ibo’s
>> > gonna drive that one home with a psychoactive sledgehammer! You’ve >> > got
>> > your
>> > response, but I really no longer wish to talk with you. I’ve spent >> > too
>> > much
>> > time arguing with all the fascists on this list, instead of hanging
>> out
>> > with
>> > the cool, in the know ,people: by that meaning knowing that the whole
>> > Govt.
>> > is totally corrupt, actually controlled by a few wealthy and >> > extremely
>> > powerful people, and they constantly just feed us disinformation,
>> while
>> > manipulating the world through economic control, etc, and alot  of
>> other
>> > things you wouldn’t understand. BYE< NOW, Billy BOY. Go get a burger!
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > From:  “Billy J”
>> > Reply-To:   ibogaine@mindvox.com
>> > To:  ibogaine@mindvox.com
>> > Subject:  RE: [Ibogaine] Whats a Republican?
>> > Date:  Tue, 04 Apr 2006 02:19:25 -0400
>> >>Hear this peace and take it to your Heart FRIEND.
>> >>1st if we go back to Killing kids for the sins of their fathers
>> >>(Child of a Rapist) Do you think that is more civilized then Raising
>> >>Cattle for food,(Cattle are food “not Pets”) although you may be
>> >>from India or somewhere that they worship your cows and even there
>> >>fecal matter I hear!  Now if your are at that junkger(Place) then I
>> >>will have to say -well Al, Bless you, but when was the last time you
>> >>had your precious cow go to war for YOUR FREEDOMS that I am sure you
>> >>are enjoying- Yes?
>> >>   Allan , do you really love cows (the 4 legged ones that is) or
>> >>are you in your 2nd or 3rd reincarnation and you where once a cow
>> >>and you have come into this wierd mooing stage and you just could
>> >>not figure it out.
>> >>  Ok That is sarcasm – Sorry< I’ll get serious.
>> >>Oh Ya Your aborting a fetus-, and yes I know that in the USof A
>> >>being the most civilized Nation that has usually voted anti-
>> >>Christian ( just in case somebody didn’t let Everybody do what FEELs
>> >>GOOD)
>>  >>Ya you can Have sex with anybody you want and then if a girl gets
>> >>pregnant, or do you call it fetus something, oh well  so shes
>> >>pregnant you have 9 months to decide whether or not you what the
>> >>little BLOB Because your fetus can be kicking up a storm and as long
>> >>as you can keep its stupid( oh it,s brain isn’t functioning yet
>> >>,right) well as long as you can keep its head inside the grown up
>> >>fetus ( that would be the female, The pregnant one, knocked up one ,
>> >>dumb one what ever you would call someone like that ( Maybe MOM)
>> >>well just reach in and CRUSH ITS SCULL and or STICK A SYRINGE INTO
>> >>THe Back of it HEAD JUST UNTIL ITS STOPS PUTTINGN UP A FIGHT, AND
>> >>they do fight Allan, just go and ask your abortion doctor.–  PARTIAL
>> >>BIRTH ABORTION– VERY NICE–
>> >>  oH YA AND YOU KNOW WHAT ALLY BABY THAT STUPID WAR MOGER THAT YOU
>> >>HAVE AS A PRESIDENT WOULD LIKE NOTHING MORE THAN TO SAVE PEOPLE BUT
>> >>ALL YOU PEOPLE THAT GOD GAVE YOU FREE CHOICE HAVE DECIDED TO VOTE
>> >>FOR THE REAL KILLERS-
>> >>   Have you any clue how many of your fetuses are done away with
>> >>each year in the USA alone,, Allan Baby– way way more in 1 year
>> >>than have been killed in ALL the World wars— How many do you think
>> >>are rape and how many are just another form of birth control,, Your
>> >>Planned Parenthood is a multi-Billion dollar industry that fights
>> >>for you to have the freedom to get rid of your Babies- But They do
>> >>not do it for free– They  are rich.One more thing if we can justify
>> >>killing because you THINK they don’t feel pain- Why not line up all
>> >>us addicts right after a good whack and while we are feeling no pain
>> >>BANG-
>> >>Save a lot of tax dollars- The Meth Clinics would be Pissed though.
>> >>
>> >>Love Ya!
>> >>
>> >>Just Don’t say it is OK To Kill My Children- Or Yours
>> >>
>> >>B
>> >>
>> >>—-Original Message Follows—-
>> >>From: “Alan Hehe”
>> >>Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
>> >>To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
>> >>Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] RE: [Pornography,psychology,Choice,force,) 2
>> >>cents
>> >>Date: Tue, 04 Apr 2006 01:25:21 -0400
>> >>MIME-Version:   1.0
>> >>Received: from tomts30-srv.bellnexxia.net ([ 209.226.175.104]) by
>> >>bay0-pamc1-f3.bay0.hotmail.com with Microsoft
>> >>SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Mon, 3 Apr 2006 22:27:22 -0700
>> >>Received: from toip4.bellnexxia.net ([209.226.175.87])          by
>> >> tomts30-srv.bellnexxia.net          (InterMail vM.5.01.06.13
>> >>201-253-122-130-113-20050324) with ESMTP          id
>> >>

>> >>          for ; Tue, 4 Apr 2006 01:27:21
>> >>-0400
>> >>Received: from   tanelorn.mindvox.com (HELO mail.mindvox.com)
>> >>([ 64.124.179.118])  by toip4.bellnexxia.net with ESMTP; 04 Apr 2006
>> >>01:27:16 -0400
>> >>Received: (qmail 1073 invoked by uid 513); 4 Apr 2006 01:27:15 -0400
>> >>Received: (qmail 1067 invoked by uid 514); 4 Apr 2006 01:27:15 -0400
>> >>X-Message-Info: moY6YVwXQ46hfM+PXD+r03SFMVOY3E1daJYU/Sm1Nkw=
>> >>Mailing-List: contact ibogaine-help@mindvox.com; run by ezmlm
>> >>Precedence: bulk
>> >>X-No-Archive: yes
>> >>List-Post:
>> >>List-Help:
>> >>List-Unsubscribe:
>> >>List-Subscribe:
>> >>Delivered-To: mailing list   ibogaine@mindvox.com
>> >>X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.1 required=4.0
>> >>X-Antivirus-MYDOMAIN-Mail-From: a.h.veil68@hotmail.com via
>> >> tanelorn.mindvox.com
>> >>X-Antivirus-MYDOMAIN: 1.25-st-qms
>> >>(Clear:RC:0( 65.54.224.26):SA:0(-2.1/4.0):. Processed in 8.08646 secs
>> >>Process 1055)
>> >>Return-Path:
>> >>ibogaine-return-23280-billjohnson6= sympatico.ca@mindvox.com
>> >>X-OriginalArrivalTime: 04 Apr 2006 05:27:22.0868 (UTC)
>> >>FILETIME=[7363CB40:01C657A8]
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>   I gotta take a piece of this one. Okay, Mr. Anti-choice, let me
>> >>ask you this: do you eat meat? If not, then good for you. If so,
>> >>have you ever though about the actual, truly painful, totally
>>  >>inhumane treatment we put animals through? And usually don’t think
>> >>twice about it…It’s people like George Bush who make me wish
>> >>sometimes that God would hurl an asteroid at us! It’s “God forbid
>> >>one human foetus (who does not feel a thing if the abortion is done
>> >>in a timely manner, according to the latest research, because their
>> >>nervous system isn’t nearly fully developed) should perish, no
>> >>matter if it was caused by a rape or is probably going to be born
>> >>into alot of suffering–but while I’m on my high horse, cut me a
>> >>piece o that cow off and cook it up! It’s sheer egotism that we
>> >>believe that humans are so damned
>> >>important, but it’s okay if we torture animals, ruin the planet, and
>> >>make other people  adhere to our beliefs!!! We’re not that important!
>> >>And if you believe in a God and the soul, then you know that–if the
>> >>foetus even has a soul yet, which I don’t believe it does..I believe
>> >>the soul enters with the first breath, and leaves with the
>> >>last–that baby is just going back into the arms of God! There is no
>> >>death! And since they don’t experience pain, all it becomes is
>> >>something for people like you to feel self righteous about!
>> >>Personally, I think everyone should smoke pot, and would benefit
>> >>from it (except for a few cases), but how would you like it if I
>> >>MADE you smoke it? That is, if you don’t, and don’t like it. Or
>> >>let’s say you eat meat, but I think it’s just as evil to do that as
>> >>to allow abortions, so  I outlawed meat–would that be okay with you?
>> >>And the cliff analogy is just stupid–not
>> >>the same thing at all. But yes, I think if a person is truly
>> >>miserable, and wants to die, I would try to talk them out of it, but
>> >>I would never stop them by force. That’s called LACK OF FREEDOM. And
>> >>if we didn’t make mistakes, how would we ever learn? To be told
>> >>something is wrong is one thing..you can tell a person, fire will
>> >>burn you..but until they get burned, they will not truly understand,
>> >>and that’s what life is all about–learning. No, I don’t like to see
>> >>foetus’ abortions–I think prevention is the answer….But
>> >>sometimes, I believe it is ‘the best choice’. If everyone like you
>> >>had their way, there really would be NO  ROOM AT ALL left!!! We’re
>> >>already sooo over-populated! It’s like I heard some character say in
>> >>a movie recently..”everybody’s kids are so special…it makes you
>> >>wonder where all the normal adults come from”. Even God believes in
>> >>freedom of choice! That’s why he gave
>> >>us FREE WILL. You’re a Republican, aren’t you? And you probably
>> >>think that war-mongering asshole of a President is the best-thing
>> >>since sliced bread, eh? It’s okay to kill, as long as it’s not a
>> >>precious child…even though that child may grow up to be The Son of
>> >>Sam!  well…”take me by the ham, no good, no evil, no give a
>> >>damn!”  And the Govt. is lying to you! About just about everything.
>> >>Peace, love, and freedom. Life is too  mysterious to take it so
>> >>serious!
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>From:  “Billy J”
>> >>Reply-To:  ibogaine@mindvox.com
>> >>To:   ibogaine@mindvox.com
>> >>Subject:  [Ibogaine] RE: [Pornography,psychology,Choice,force,) 2
>> >>cents
>> >>Date:  Sun, 02 Apr 2006 21:45:39 -0400
>> >> >Well It sounds like this place is really mixing it up so I would
>> >> >like to add a little REALITY TO YOU PRO CHOICERS, I am sure glad I
>> >> >was not an abortion’ althought I have had my moments.
>> >> >Yes My Mom was a young Mom and if she had a choice I think that I
>> >> >would have no Grandkids,  or be babbleing on here.
>> >> >     I too have an attitude, It is about the only thing in this
>> >> >world that I really have control over.
>> >> >Tiger– How well did you do with making ALL your own Choices,
>> >> >Instead of doing
>> >>what your were told to do? Not meant to be a shot
>> >> >at you personally, but I am with the Right or Wrong crowd- No such
>> >> >thing as grey.
>> >> >   I do know that some people may have grown up believing that
>> >>wrong
>> >> >was right and right was wrong, but I Think that I pretty much knew
>> >> >when I was stepping out of line and doing wrong.
>> >> >It is (as most believe) My God , no not God, but My worldly given
>> >> >Right- to do  wrong- It’s my life and if I want to screw it up then
>> >> >stay out of my way. And you know what I had a lot of sooo called
>> >> >friends that did just that WATCHED, AS i WAS Killing myself and
>> >> >ruining a lot of lifes.
>> >> >But O O O never no no no neverdare step on somebodys toes because
>> >> >you know what they have a choice, Just like those poor little
>> >>Crack

>> >> >%$^&amp;%$ Women that degrade themselves( and me

>> >>myself) due to
>> >> >everybody. But Never No No Never dare tell somebody or force
>> >>someone
>> >> >to get some help that they may never ever make it to on their own,
>> >> >due to something called “Pride” “Shame” “Guilt”
>> >> >Whatever holds them back. They may end up DEAD and it  would be
>> >>their
>> >> >own fault, because you know how STRONG us druggies are, and if
>> >>that
>> >> >person dies because he had a choice to get help and refused or
>> >>just
>> >> >couldn’t make it on his/her own and needed YOU (of course they

>> >> >didn’t tell you that).
>> >> >I am sorry but I BELIEVE that if you Love Someone or even care a
>> >> >little, and you see them walking off a cliff and YOU have an
>> >> >opportunity to stop them, and you don’t- Can you truelly say it
>> >>was
>> >> >their own fault?
>> >> >Pornography- I never met too many Normal people that would find it
>> >> >neccesary to take their
>> >>cloths off for the public to see. Totally
>> >> >wrong  and if you had your own kids you might not think it too cool
>> >> >having your buddy beating off while checking out your little girl.
>> >> >Not nice eh Billy but P–sy T-ts are not meant for anyone except
>> >>who
>> >> >they belong to and their mate.
>> >> >
>> >> >Bye For Now, That stuff is about the biggest trigger going for any
>> >> >downfall
>> >> >
>> >> >Bill
>> >> >—-Original Message Follows—-
>> >> >From: “Nick Sandberg”

>> >> >Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
>> >> >To:

>> >> >Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Opiates
>> >> >Date: Sun, 2 Apr 2006 10:24:07 +0100

>> >> >MIME-Version: 1.0

>> >>  >Received: from tomts21-srv.bellnexxia.net ([209.226.175.183]) by
>> >> > bay0-pamc1-f11.bay0.hotmail.com with Microsoft
>> >> >SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Sun, 2 Apr 2006 05:38:59
>> >>-0700

>> >> >Received: from toip5.bellnexxia.net ([ 209.226.175.88])          by
>> >> >tomts21-srv.bellnexxia.net          (InterMail vM.5.01.06.13

>> >> >201-253-122-130-113-20050324) with ESMTP          id
>> >> >

>> >> >          for ; Sun, 2 Apr 2006
>> >>08:38:58

>>  >> >-0400
>> >> >Received: from tanelorn.mindvox.com (HELO mail.mindvox.com)

>> >> >([64.124.179.118])  by toip5.bellnexxia.net with ESMTP; 02 Apr

>> >>2006
>> >> >08:38:58 -0400
>> >> >Received: (qmail 16967 invoked by uid 513); 2 Apr 2006 08:38:55
>> >> >-0400
>> >> >Received: (qmail 16961 invoked by uid
>> >>514); 2 Apr 2006 08:38:55
>> >> >-0400
>> >> >X-Message-Info: moY6YVwXQ44WAJnUvaOEtK2hXKGagKAsshDbZwj7pSc=

>> >> >Mailing-List: contact ibogaine-help@mindvox.com ; run by ezmlm
>> >> >Precedence: bulk
>> >> >X-No-Archive: yes
>> >> >List-Post:
>> >> >List-Help:
>> >>  >List-Unsubscribe:
>> >> >List-Subscribe:
>> >> >Delivered-To: mailing list ibogaine@mindvox.com

>> >> >X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.3 required=4.0
>> >> >X-Antivirus-MYDOMAIN-Mail-From: nick227@tiscali.co.uk via

>> >> >tanelorn.mindvox.com
>> >> >X-Antivirus-MYDOMAIN: 1.25-st-qms

>> >> >(Clear:RC:0(212.74.114.37):SA:0(-2.3/4.0):. Processed in 2.781926
>> >> >secs Process 16953)
>> >> >X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true
>> >> >X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result:
>> >>AQAAAJ0kL0SDE4UI
>> >> >X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.6604 (9.0.2911.0)
>> >> >Return-Path:
>> >>  >ibogaine-return-23233-billjohnson6= sympatico.ca@mindvox.com
>> >> >X-OriginalArrivalTime: 02 Apr 2006 12:38:59.0373 (UTC)
>> >> >FILETIME=[6A155DD0:01C65652]
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >   —–Original Message—–
>> >> >   From: Tiger Lisa [mailto: tigerlisa@gmail.com]
>> >> >   Sent: 01 April 2006 13:44

>> >> >   To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
>> >> >   Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Opiates
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >   Dear Nick,
>> >> >   Here’ the part I don’t understand.
>> >> >
>> >> >   You wrote,
>> >> >   Personally, my position is…I think rising awareness is GOOD.
>>  >>I
>> >> >would
>> >> >love to see more people in groups, going through their stuff,
>> >> >becoming more
>> >> >aware of their
>> >>personal interior dynamic, and moving forward in
>> >> >life. But,
>> >> >sadly, I’m not in a position to compel people to do this.
>> >> >
>> >> >   Why would you ever want to COMPEL anyone to do ANYTHING? Do you
>> >> >really
>> >> >believe that would be useful, effective, helpful? Do you think
>> >> >people
>> >> >actually benefit from, and grow from, being FORCED to do anything?
>> >> >
>> >> >   That is a parent-child model of interaction (and not a
>> >> >particularly
>> >> >skillful one, IMO),  and it’s going to reinforce childlike,
>> >> >rebellious and
>> >> >victim behavior (NOT self-awareness!) in the one so compelled, as
>> >> >well as
>> >> >reinforcing bullying behavior and disprespectful and righteous
>> >> >attitudes
>> >> >(NOT increased compassion or awareness) in the one doing the
>> >> >compelling. A
>> >> >”lose-lose” interaction–no one
>> >>wins!
>> >> >
>> >> >   Myself, I believe CHOICE is the name of the game. With choice
>> >> >comes
>> >> >responsibility, self-responsibility and a loss of the victim
>> >> >consciousness
>> >> >that drives continued reactive and unconscious behavior.
>> >> >
>> >> >   So in  a nutshell: Saying something (like awarenss) is GOOD is
>> >>one
>> >> >thing,
>> >> >but it’s a far cry from that to say,”And I’d love to FORCE you all
>> >> >to be
>> >> >more aware! too bad I can’t!” I think that is the essence of
>> >>what
>> >> >*I* am
>> >> >having a problem with. Yes, awareness is good. I agree. Yes, I’d
>> >> >love to
>> >> >live in a more aware society, umm hmm. Then I read the next
>> >>sentence
>> >> >and I’m
>> >> >brought up short.
>> >> >
>> >> >   We all need love, acceptance, compassion. Compassion is one of
>> >> >the most
>> >> >healing things
>> >>going! Power and control, on the other hand, just  get
>> >> >people’s backs up, thrust them into dysfunctional modes of
>> >>thinking
>> >> >and
>> >> >perpetuate a lack of awareness all around.
>> >> >
>> >> >   Just my two cents,
>> >> >   Tiger
>> >> >
>> >> >   PS I bet if you took a shot of heroin, you would experience
>> >> >bliss! (not
>> >> >that I’m suggesting you do) I believe it is just how human beings
>> >> >are wired.
>> >> >We’ve all got the same neurotransmitters, more or less.
>> >> >
>> >> >   Hi Tiger,
>> >> >
>> >> >   Well, I seem to recall, from the days when I used to go to
>> >> >conferences and
>> >>  >stuff, that studies have shown that only a small percentage of
>> >> >school kids
>> >> >who used heroin developed a habit. (Howard Parker in Sheffield, or
>> >> >something
>> >> >like that, about 1000 individuals
>> >>studied). This is not quite the
>> >> >same as
>> >> >what you’re saying, I appreciate, but it shows that the drug of
>> >> >itself is
>> >> >not necessarily addicting. I don’t know if anyone knows what makes
>> >>a
>> >> >difference but I’d be willing to bet that, psychologically, it
>> >> >relates
>> >> >strongly to “ego orientation” vs “underlying levels of feeling.”
>> >>If
>> >> >you’ve
>> >> >developed a self-image that requires you to repress more  feelings
>> >> >than the
>> >> >endogenous opiates in your body can do, then taking heroin is
>> >>going
>> >> >to make
>> >> >you feel pretty good. I would personally say that this is very
>> >> >likely one
>> >> >psychological mechanism behind addiction. This would explain why
>> >>so
>> >> >many
>> >> >addicts do come from relatively high trauma backgrounds. For, as
>> >> >kids, we
>> >> >learn that to “get things” and to “be popular” we need to
>> >>be able to
>> >> >keep
>> >> >our feelings a bit under control, not just likely to collapse from
>> >> >overfeeling at any time.
>> >> >
>> >> >   With bliss, (or anxiety for that matter),  these are
>> >>experiential
>> >> >things
>> >> >and no neuroscientist can explain them beyond pointing a little at
>> >> >things
>> >> >that seem to be involved. What is clear is that the states are
>> >> >relative to
>> >> >one another. If you’re basically a happy person bliss is
>> >>inevitably
>> >> >less
>> >> >attractive than if you’re an anxious person.
>> >> >
>> >> >   About awareness, yes, I would love to force everyone to be more
>> >> >aware!
>> >> >And, inevitably, it doesn’t really work like that! But that’s my
>> >> >position
>> >> >anyway. What to do? Yes, compassion is needed, sometimes a lot of
>> >> >it. Also,
>> >>  >all the power and control at times. I’m not so
>> >>busy with how I think
>> >> >society
>> >> >should be, or trying to like Understand the world, I just put my
>> >> >position
>> >> >out really. About choice, well, it seems like a great thing, for
>> >> >sure, but
>> >> >to me it’s a little the same as trying to push compassion at the
>> >> >expense of
>> >> >power. In philosophy or spirituality or whatever, some people
>> >> >believe that
>> >> >free will exists, others that the universe is entirely
>> >> >deterministic. Who
>> >> >the fuck knows? Both are cool viewpoints, and I personally
>> >>wouldn’t
>> >> >just
>> >> >want to just trapped in just one of  them.
>> >> >

>> >> >   Is it cool to allow someone you care about to carry on fucking
>> >> >their life

>> >> >up because you believe so much in their free will? Not for me! I
>> >> >like to
>> >> >have the guts to take a position. And, to be honest, it’s a little
>> >>
>> >> >bit what
>> >> >I miss in this list, where half the time everyone seems to be
>> >> >talking it up
>> >> >all nice but actually underneath there are shed-loads of feelings.
>> >>I
>> >> >don’t
>> >> >know if this says anything significant about ibogaine, or about
>> >>the
>> >> >people
>> >> >who are attracted to administering it, or what. But I notice it.
>> >>  >
>> >> >   Nick
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >/]=———————————————————————=[\

>> >> >[%] Ibogaine List Commands:
>> >> > http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
>> >> >
>> >> >\]=———————————————————————=[/
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >>

>> >>  With MSN Spaces email straight to your blog. Upload jokes, photos
>> >>and more. It’s free!
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>/]=———————————————————————=[\

>> >>  [%] Ibogaine List  Commands:
>> >> http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
>> >>
>> >>\]=———————————————————————=[/
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>/]=———————————————————————=[\
>> >>[%] Ibogaine List Commands:
>> >>http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
>> >>
>> >>\]=———————————————————————=[/
>> >>
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >

>> > Be one of the first to try Windows Live Mail
>> > /]=———————————————————————=[\

>> > [%] Ibogaine List Commands:
>> http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html
>> > [%]
>> > \]=———————————————————————=[/
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >

>> > Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. PC-to-Phone calls for ridiculously low
>> rates.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > >> > /]=———————————————————————=[\

>> >  [%] Ibogaine List Commands:
>> http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html
>> > [%]
>> > >> > \]=———————————————————————=[/
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> >> /]=———————————————————————=[\
>>  [%] Ibogaine List Commands:
>> http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
>> >> \]=———————————————————————=[/
>>
>>

>  Save time by starting a search from any Web page with the MSN Search
> Toolbar-FREE!
> /]=———————————————————————=[\

>  [%] Ibogaine List Commands:
> http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
> \]=———————————————————————=[/

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

See if you’ve won, play MSN Search and Win
/]=———————————————————————=[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%] \]=———————————————————————=[/

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: “Sara Glatt” <sara119@xs4all.nl>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] this day a year ago…
Date: April 7, 2006 at 7:04:35 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Dear Mark,

best wishes,

Sara

This day a year ago I was buying 5 bags of dope… they were my last.
Words couldn’t describe how grateful I feel to be one of the lucky few.
Howard, Eric, Dana, Chris & D., My mom, Ali, Joe and Shirl…and moonbeam,
dodi, Rocky, Randy’s, tink, Patrick, Dr. Ken, Kurt, Tink, Sara, Adam,
Eddie, Preston, the Queens Crew, and everyone else out there, Thank you
from the bottom of my heart.
I know its only 365 days but its a milestone and i’m pretty fuckin happy
to have reached it. I’m also kinda happy to put this year behind me. As
anyone I mentioned b4 can attest to, I totally unraveled emotionally after
my last session and had to completely start over. In a nut shell, I’m
kinda lucky I’m alive after the year I’ve had. But I really have kinda
hung in there and pushed though a lot of the uncomfortable shit and I
can’t say exactly when things started to click but they did…or they are.
I’m far from the pictue of health but I really do continue to get a little
better all the time. Two steps forward one step back kinda thing I guess.
But one year ago today I wanted to die and now i’m pretty fuckin happy to
be alive.
This stuff is somethin else.

From: jiggy9@hotmail.co.uk> To: ibogaine@mindvox.com> Date: Thu, 6 Apr
2006 21:23:39 +0100> Subject: [Ibogaine] Looking to mud and gold with an
equal eye;)’~> > > Good Evening to all you people, love and respect to
most but,> Ok all you great Men who think they know it all. how does
this sit with you. > you all seem to be greedy little men. ok Judge and
be judged but you play > and tally. Listen i pray and listen good. there
are seven paths that any man > may walk, through masculine and feminine
existence with self. You seek > enlightenment. you have the divine
writings, but you do not practice them.> So i shall refresh your
memories. OK!!! ‘I’ I am a MAN, not a Robot and > therefore feel and see
and hear and touch and love and fulfill my desires > there is no want
within my kingdom. I feel you are many greedy little men of > lusts that
only want to control.> Pray read and start again.> There is no
meditation apart from wisdom.> > Those whose hearts are in a state of
repose give forth a divine radiance.> > He who is Rich in control
renounces everything.> > Truth Honesty, just, pure, lovely, of good
report, if there be any virtue > and any praise, think of these things.
Give thanks for what you have.> > Meditate on thy own Lord in thine own
mind with humility and do not create > warfare.> > Sit and be still.> >
Good one, Whosoever among men attains greatness, they have, as it were,
part > of the reward of meditation, Reverence, Respect.> > So there you
go. by meditating on the word and staying out of ego and power > trips,
thou shalt be unaffected by the world.> > Keep things simple folks,> >
Drink the water, eat the food. Want for nothing, fulfill your desires
and > remember, I pray, that you can’t eat Sunday Dinner without Gravy,
it is too > damn dry lololol  Grace!!!> > How can you have any pudding
if you don’t eat your meat. Well i can tell you > that it all does not
matter in the end in the great scale of things. Atoms > move, molecules
combine, just be and accept.> > Do not harry warfare for warfare sake as
you waste your time and energy.> > The true key is just to think twice
and feel that you have made the right > decision.> > Spiritual and
physiological ping pong.> > > Ah Flob a LOb a LOB,  Little WEEEEED. I am
not a flower pot man and some of > you should leave my friends alone ok?
You > know who you are.> > Peace and
respect will bring you to bliss beyond any imagined feelings of > fear.>
I retire to eat, laters folks. I pray i woke some of you up and put
some > light and meaning back into your existences. lololol> > Black
feline cat, sees in two watch towers with two lanterns at the same >
time. This is deception. For to worship two Gods at the same time is
Mammon.> The Egyptians used these tools as slavery the same as
governments and > agencies use Methadone as social control.> > How can
you sell cakes in the Church. lolol> > Get the Syrians out of your
camp.> > Ok enough for now. you are all welcome to comment but remember
the truth > hurts.> > Out of my own ignorance today, cos i thought
someone was sincere, I was > robbed. no matter i shall replace it. It
was only a chattel. But I shall ask > and see of the person to see what
they will try and use to protect > themselves. The ring was a silver
three pence piece set in a crown. ah sweet > charity. You carry no
chain, my love my Sweat.;> It was given me by a departed friend as
remembrance.> > Come sit Partake, Refresh, drink, BE!!!  Sated:)> >
At last I am a Warrior mighty in Battle.      >
Dinner:)’> > Selah’> >
Paul:)> > Strength, Power, Honour, Respect. Be good to yourselves
people and remember > self love is not selfish. You do not need Warfare
for Warfare sake.’!!!    > Peace’> >
_________________________________________________________________> Be
the first to hear what’s new at MSN – sign up to our free newsletters! >
http://www.msn.co.uk/newsletters> > > >
/]=———————————————————————=[\>
[%] Ibogaine List Commands:
http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]>
\]=———————————————————————=[/>

_________________________________________________________________
Because e-mail on your cell phone should be easy:  Try Windows Live Mail
for Mobile beta
http://www2.imagine-msn.com/minisites/mail/Default.aspx?locale=en-us

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: “Guy Bragge” <guybragge@mweb.co.za>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] this day a year ago…
Date: April 7, 2006 at 3:52:39 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Way to go Mark!!! Just what I needed to hear, it can be done.
Keep it up.and thanks for the inspiration.
Guy
From: Mark Corcoran [mailto:mcorcoran27@hotmail.com] 
Sent: 07 April 2006 01:18
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] this day a year ago…

This day a year ago I was buying 5 bags of dope… they were my last.
Words couldn’t describe how grateful I feel to be one of the lucky few.
Howard, Eric, Dana, Chris & D., My mom, Ali, Joe and Shirl…and moonbeam, dodi, Rocky, Randy’s, tink, Patrick, Dr. Ken, Kurt, Tink, Sara, Adam, Eddie, Preston, the Queens Crew, and everyone else out there, Thank you from the bottom of my heart.
I know its only 365 days but its a milestone and i’m pretty fuckin happy to have reached it. I’m also kinda happy to put this year behind me. As anyone I mentioned b4 can attest to, I totally unraveled emotionally after my last session and had to completely start over. In a nut shell, I’m kinda lucky I’m alive after the year I’ve had. But I really have kinda hung in there and pushed though a lot of the uncomfortable shit and I can’t say exactly when things started to click but they did…or they are. I’m far from the pictue of health but I really do continue to get a little better all the time. Two steps forward one step back kinda thing I guess. But one year ago today I wanted to die and now i’m pretty fuckin happy to be alive.
This stuff is somethin else.

> From: jiggy9@hotmail.co.uk
> To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
> Date: Thu, 6 Apr 2006 21:23:39 +0100
> Subject: [Ibogaine] Looking to mud and gold with an equal eye;)’~
> 
> 
> Good Evening to all you people, love and respect to most but,
> Ok all you great Men who think they know it all. how does this sit with you. 
> you all seem to be greedy little men. ok Judge and be judged but you play 
> and tally. Listen i pray and listen good. there are seven paths that any man 
> may walk, through masculine and feminine existence with self. You seek 
> enlightenment. you have the divine writings, but you do not practice them.
> So i shall refresh your memories. OK!!! ‘I’ I am a MAN, not a Robot and 
> therefore feel and see and hear and touch and love and fulfill my desires 
> there is no want within my kingdom. I feel you are many greedy little men of 
> lusts that only want to control.
> Pray read and start again.
> There is no meditation apart from wisdom.
> 
> Those whose hearts are in a state of repose give forth a divine radiance.
> 
> He who is Rich in control renounces everything.
> 
> Truth Honesty, just, pure, lovely, of good report, if there be any virtue 
> and any praise, think of these things. Give thanks for what you have.
> 
> Meditate on thy own Lord in thine own mind with humility and do not create 
> warfare.
> 
> Sit and be still.
> 
> Good one, Whosoever among men attains greatness, they have, as it were, part 
> of the reward of meditation, Reverence, Respect.
> 
> So there you go. by meditating on the word and staying out of ego and power 
> trips, thou shalt be unaffected by the world.
> 
> Keep things simple folks,
> 
> Drink the water, eat the food. Want for nothing, fulfill your desires and 
> remember, I pray, that you can’t eat Sunday Dinner without Gravy, it is too 
> damn dry lololol  Grace!!!
> 
> How can you have any pudding if you don’t eat your meat. Well i can tell you 
> that it all does not matter in the end in the great scale of things. Atoms 
> move, molecules combine, just be and accept.
> 
> Do not harry warfare for warfare sake as you waste your time and energy.
> 
> The true key is just to think twice and feel that you have made the right 
> decision.
> 
> Spiritual and physiological ping pong.
> 
> 
> Ah Flob a LOb a LOB,  Little WEEEEED. I am not a flower pot man and some of 
> you should leave my friends alone ok?                                 You 
> know who you are.
> 
> Peace and respect will bring you to bliss beyond any imagined feelings of 
> fear.
> 
> I retire to eat, laters folks. I pray i woke some of you up and put some 
> light and meaning back into your existences. lololol
> 
> Black feline cat, sees in two watch towers with two lanterns at the same 
> time. This is deception. For to worship two Gods at the same time is Mammon.
> The Egyptians used these tools as slavery the same as governments and 
> agencies use Methadone as social control.
> 
> How can you sell cakes in the Church. lolol
> 
> Get the Syrians out of your camp.
> 
> Ok enough for now. you are all welcome to comment but remember the truth 
> hurts.
> 
> Out of my own ignorance today, cos i thought someone was sincere, I was 
> robbed. no matter i shall replace it. It was only a chattel. But I shall ask 
> and see of the person to see what they will try and use to protect 
> themselves. The ring was a silver three pence piece set in a crown. ah sweet 
> charity. You carry no chain, my love my Sweat.;
> It was given me by a departed friend as remembrance.
> 
> Come sit Partake, Refresh, drink, BE!!!  Sated:)
> 
>                        At last I am a Warrior mighty in Battle.      
> Dinner:)’
> 
> Selah’
> 
>                                                       Paul:)
> 
> Strength, Power, Honour, Respect. Be good to yourselves people and remember 
> self love is not selfish. You do not need Warfare for Warfare sake.’!!!    
> Peace’
> 
> _________________________________________________________________
> Be the first to hear what’s new at MSN – sign up to our free newsletters! 
> http://www.msn.co.uk/newsletters
> 
> 
> 
>   /]=———————————————————————=[\
>  [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
>   \]=———————————————————————=[/
> 
>
From: “Jasen Chamoun” <jasenhappy@optusnet.com.au>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] this day a year ago…
Date: April 7, 2006 at 2:23:45 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Mark,

You go bro,..awesome. Love from the land of OZ
—– Original Message —–
From: Mark Corcoran
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Friday, April 07, 2006 9:17 AM
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] this day a year ago…

This day a year ago I was buying 5 bags of dope… they were my last.
Words couldn’t describe how grateful I feel to be one of the lucky few.
Howard, Eric, Dana, Chris & D., My mom, Ali, Joe and Shirl…and moonbeam, dodi, Rocky, Randy’s, tink, Patrick, Dr. Ken, Kurt, Tink, Sara, Adam, Eddie, Preston, the Queens Crew, and everyone else out there, Thank you from the bottom of my heart.
I know its only 365 days but its a milestone and i’m pretty fuckin happy to have reached it. I’m also kinda happy to put this year behind me. As anyone I mentioned b4 can attest to, I totally unraveled emotionally after my last session and had to completely start over. In a nut shell, I’m kinda lucky I’m alive after the year I’ve had. But I really have kinda hung in there and pushed though a lot of the uncomfortable shit and I can’t say exactly when things started to click but they did…or they are. I’m far from the pictue of health but I really do continue to get a little better all the time. Two steps forward one step back kinda thing I guess. But one year ago today I wanted to die and now i’m pretty fuckin happy to be alive.
This stuff is somethin else.

From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] this day a year ago…
Date: April 6, 2006 at 11:43:46 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

way to go!!! it is a miracle, huh?
callie

From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] RE:anger
Date: April 6, 2006 at 11:35:37 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 4/4/2006 3:24:08 P.M. Central Standard Time, a.h.veil68@hotmail.com writes:
As far as being a psychonaut, I have travelled–on mushroom, L>S>D and Dextromethorphan to places you wouldn’t believe.

Please share with me your tripping on Dextromethorphan! Ewwwwwww! I would’ve never thought you could trip on that stuff! Seems like it would make you sick before you took enough to trip! Were you taking Dextromethorphan by itself or in a cough compound?
Callie

From: biscuitboy714@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] this day a year ago…
Date: April 6, 2006 at 9:58:29 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

GET…………………DOWN…………………….WILLIE                       Randy

—–Original Message—–
From: Mark Corcoran <mcorcoran27@hotmail.com>
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Thu, 6 Apr 2006 19:17:30 -0400
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] this day a year ago…

This day a year ago I was buying 5 bags of dope… they were my last.

Words couldn’t describe how grateful I feel to be one of the lucky few.

Howard, Eric, Dana, Chris & D., My mom, Ali, Joe and Shirl…and moonbeam, dodi, Rocky, Randy’s, tink, Patrick, Dr. Ken, Kurt, Tink, Sara, Adam, Eddie, Preston, the Queens Crew, and everyone else out there, Thank you from the bottom of my heart.

I know its only 365 days but its a milestone and i’m pretty fuckin happy to have reached it. I’m also kinda happy to put this year behind me. As anyone I mentioned b4 can attest to, I totally unraveled emotionally after my last session and had to completely start over. In a nut shell, I’m kinda lucky I’m alive after the year I’ve had. But I really have kinda hung in there and pushed though a lot of the uncomfortable shit and I can’t say exactly when things started to click but they did…or they are. I’m far from the pictue of health but I really do continue to get a little better all the time. Two steps forward one step back kinda thing I guess. But one year ago today I wanted to die and now i’m pretty fuckin happy to be alive.

This stuff is somethin else.

——–

> From: jiggy9@hotmail.co.uk
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Date: Thu, 6 Apr 2006 21:23:39 +0100
Subject: [Ibogaine] Looking to mud and gold with an equal eye;)’~

Good Evening to all you people, love and respect to most but,
Ok all you great Men who think they know it all. how does this sit with y
ou.

you all seem to be greedy little men. ok Judge and be judged but you play
and tally. Listen i pray and listen good. there are seven paths that any
man

may walk, through masculine and feminine existence with self. You seek

enlightenment. you have the divine writings, but you do not practice them
.

So i shall refresh your memories. OK!!! ‘I’ I am a MAN, not a Robot and

therefore feel and see and hear and touch and love and fulfill my desires
there is no want within my kingdom. I feel you are many greedy little men
of
lusts that only want to control.
Pray read and start again.
There is no meditation apart from wisdom.

Those whose hearts are in a state of repose give forth a divine radiance.

He who is Rich in control renounces everything.

Truth Honesty, just, pure, lovely, of good report, if there be any virtue

and any praise, think of these things. Give thanks for what you have.

Meditate on thy own Lord in thine own mind with humility and do not creat
e
warfare.

Sit and be still.

Good one, Whosoever among men attains greatness, they have, as it were, p
art
of the reward of meditation, Reverence, Respect.

So there you go. by meditating on the word and staying out of ego and pow
er
trips, thou shalt be unaffected by the world.

Keep things simple folks,

Drink the water, eat the food. Want for nothing, fulfill your desires and
remember, I pray, that you can’t eat Sunday Dinner without Gravy, it is t
oo
damn dry lololol  Grace!!!

How can you have any pudding if you don’t eat your meat. Well i can tell
you

that it all does not matter in the end in the great scale of things. Atom
s
move, molecules combine, just be and accept.

Do not harry warfare for warfare sake as you waste your time and energy.

The true key is just to think twice and feel that you have made the right

decision.

Spiritual and physiological ping pong.

Ah Flob a LOb a LOB,  Little WEEEEED. I am not a flower pot man and some
of

you should leave my friends alone ok?                                 You

know who you are.

Peace and respect will bring you to bliss beyond any imagined feelings of

fear.

I retire to eat, laters folks. I pray i woke some of you up and put some

light and meaning back into your existences. lololol

Black feline cat, sees in two watch towers with two lanterns at the same

time. This is deception. For to worship two Gods at the same time is Mamm
on.
The Egyptians used these tools as slavery the same as governments and
agencies use Methadone as social control.

How can you sell cakes in the Church. lolol

Get the Syrians out of your camp.

Ok enough for now. you are all welcome to comment but remember the truth

hurts.

Out of my own ignorance today, cos i thought someone was sincere, I was

robbed. no matter i shall replace it. It was only a chattel. But I shall
ask
and see of the person to see what they will try and use to protect
themselves. The ring was a silver three pence piece set in a crown. ah sw
eet
charity. You carry no chain, my love my Sweat.;
It was given me by a departed friend as remembrance.

Come sit Partake, Refresh, drink, BE!!!  Sated:)

At last I am a Warrior mighty in Battle.
Dinner:)’

Selah’

Paul:)

Strength, Power, Honour, Respect. Be good to yourselves people and rememb
er

self love is not selfish. You do not need Warfare for Warfare sake.’!!!

Peace’

_________________________________________________________________
Be the first to hear what’s new at MSN – sign up to our free newsletters!

http://www.msn.co.uk/newsletters

/]=——————————————————————–
-=[\

[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.htm
l [%]

\]=——————————————————————–
-=[/

——–
=
/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: Crooked Eye <iboganaut420@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] please remove me from list
Date: April 6, 2006 at 8:11:49 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

remove yourself…  click the link and follow the instructions to remove your email from the list…
Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html

illya braun <illyabraun@hotmail.com> wrote:

please remove me from your mailing list.
many thanks
illya braun

 

Free yourself from those irritating pop-up ads with MSN Premium. Join now and get the first two months FREE*/]=———————————————————————=[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%] \]=———————————————————————=[/

Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. Make PC-to-Phone Calls to the US (and 30+ countries) for 2¢/min or less.

From: “illya braun” <illyabraun@hotmail.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] please remove me from list
Date: April 6, 2006 at 8:05:36 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

please remove me from your mailing list.
many thanks
illya braun

 

Free yourself from those irritating pop-up ads with MSN Premium. Join now and get the first two months FREE* /]=———————————————————————=[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%] \]=———————————————————————=[/

From: “Billy J” <billjohnson6@sympatico.ca>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Looking to mud and gold with an equal eye;)’~
Date: April 6, 2006 at 7:23:47 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Close and almost Godly Pauly,
Sounds to me like you Love God almost as much as you like your meds.
Maybe I am rong but remember to think on whatsoever thigs R pure, Lovely,of a good report, Love your neighbour as yourself,
But first learn to love yourself— My biggest obsticle.

Bill

—-Original Message Follows—-
From: “Paul Brookshaw” <jiggy9@hotmail.co.uk>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] Looking to mud and gold with an equal eye;)’~
Date: Thu, 06 Apr 2006 21:23:39 +0100
MIME-Version: 1.0
Received: from tomts3-srv.bellnexxia.net ([209.226.175.115]) by bay0-pamc1-f5.bay0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Thu, 6 Apr 2006 13:24:00 -0700
Received: from toip2.bellnexxia.net ([209.226.175.85])          by tomts3-srv.bellnexxia.net          (InterMail vM.5.01.06.13 201-253-122-130-113-20050324) with ESMTP          id <20060406202504.NNAH19199.tomts3-srv.bellnexxia.net@toip2.bellnexxia.net>          for <billjohnson6@sympatico.ca>; Thu, 6 Apr 2006 16:25:04 -0400
Received: from tanelorn.mindvox.com (HELO mail.mindvox.com) ([64.124.179.118])  by toip2.bellnexxia.net with ESMTP; 06 Apr 2006 16:23:56 -0400
Received: (qmail 26447 invoked by uid 513); 6 Apr 2006 16:23:54 -0400
Received: (qmail 26441 invoked by uid 514); 6 Apr 2006 16:23:54 -0400
X-Message-Info: moY6YVwXQ45Qnc4fQr+GXUohFWDxDwxC0iCDt0Lu6CM=
Mailing-List: contact ibogaine-help@mindvox.com; run by ezmlm
Precedence: bulk
X-No-Archive: yes
List-Post: <mailto:ibogaine@mindvox.com>
List-Help: <mailto:ibogaine-help@mindvox.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:ibogaine-unsubscribe@mindvox.com>
List-Subscribe: <mailto:ibogaine-subscribe@mindvox.com>
Delivered-To: mailing list ibogaine@mindvox.com
X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.9 required=4.0
X-Antivirus-MYDOMAIN-Mail-From: jiggy9@hotmail.co.uk via tanelorn.mindvox.com
X-Antivirus-MYDOMAIN: 1.25-st-qms (Clear:RC:0(65.54.168.24):SA:0(-0.9/4.0):. Processed in 11.001749 secs Process 26362)
Return-Path: ibogaine-return-23434-billjohnson6=sympatico.ca@mindvox.com
X-OriginalArrivalTime: 06 Apr 2006 20:24:00.0815 (UTC) FILETIME=[0A4A8BF0:01C659B8]

Good Evening to all you people, love and respect to most but,
Ok all you great Men who think they know it all. how does this sit with you. you all seem to be greedy little men. ok Judge and be judged but you play and tally. Listen i pray and listen good. there are seven paths that any man may walk, through masculine and feminine existence with self. You seek enlightenment. you have the divine writings, but you do not practice them.
So i shall refresh your memories. OK!!! ‘I’ I am a MAN, not a Robot and therefore feel and see and hear and touch and love and fulfill my desires there is no want within my kingdom. I feel you are many greedy little men of lusts that only want to control.
Pray read and start again.
There is no meditation apart from wisdom.

Those whose hearts are in a state of repose give forth a divine radiance.

He who is Rich in control renounces everything.

Truth Honesty, just, pure, lovely, of good report, if there be any virtue and any praise, think of these things. Give thanks for what you have.

Meditate on thy own Lord in thine own mind with humility and do not create warfare.

Sit and be still.

Good one, Whosoever among men attains greatness, they have, as it were, part of the reward of meditation, Reverence, Respect.

So there you go. by meditating on the word and staying out of ego and power trips, thou shalt be unaffected by the world.

Keep things simple folks,

Drink the water, eat the food. Want for nothing, fulfill your desires and remember, I pray, that you can’t eat Sunday Dinner without Gravy, it is too damn dry lololol  Grace!!!

How can you have any pudding if you don’t eat your meat. Well i can tell you that it all does not matter in the end in the great scale of things. Atoms move, molecules combine, just be and accept.

Do not harry warfare for warfare sake as you waste your time and energy.

The true key is just to think twice and feel that you have made the right decision.

Spiritual and physiological ping pong.

Ah Flob a LOb a LOB,  Little WEEEEED. I am not a flower pot man and some of you should leave my friends alone ok?                                 You know who you are.

Peace and respect will bring you to bliss beyond any imagined feelings of fear.

I retire to eat, laters folks. I pray i woke some of you up and put some light and meaning back into your existences. lololol

Black feline cat, sees in two watch towers with two lanterns at the same time. This is deception. For to worship two Gods at the same time is Mammon.
The Egyptians used these tools as slavery the same as governments and agencies use Methadone as social control.

How can you sell cakes in the Church. lolol

Get the Syrians out of your camp.

Ok enough for now. you are all welcome to comment but remember the truth hurts.

Out of my own ignorance today, cos i thought someone was sincere, I was robbed. no matter i shall replace it. It was only a chattel. But I shall ask and see of the person to see what they will try and use to protect themselves. The ring was a silver three pence piece set in a crown. ah sweet charity. You carry no chain, my love my Sweat.;
It was given me by a departed friend as remembrance.

Come sit Partake, Refresh, drink, BE!!!  Sated:)

At last I am a Warrior mighty in Battle.      Dinner:)’

Selah’

Paul:)

Strength, Power, Honour, Respect. Be good to yourselves people and remember self love is not selfish. You do not need Warfare for Warfare sake.’!!!    Peace’

_________________________________________________________________
Be the first to hear what’s new at MSN – sign up to our free newsletters! http://www.msn.co.uk/newsletters

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: “Mark Corcoran” <mcorcoran27@hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] this day a year ago…
Date: April 6, 2006 at 7:17:30 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

This day a year ago I was buying 5 bags of dope… they were my last.
Words couldn’t describe how grateful I feel to be one of the lucky few.
Howard, Eric, Dana, Chris & D., My mom, Ali, Joe and Shirl…and moonbeam, dodi, Rocky, Randy’s, tink, Patrick, Dr. Ken, Kurt, Tink, Sara, Adam, Eddie, Preston, the Queens Crew, and everyone else out there, Thank you from the bottom of my heart.
I know its only 365 days but its a milestone and i’m pretty fuckin happy to have reached it. I’m also kinda happy to put this year behind me. As anyone I mentioned b4 can attest to, I totally unraveled emotionally after my last session and had to completely start over. In a nut shell, I’m kinda lucky I’m alive after the year I’ve had. But I really have kinda hung in there and pushed though a lot of the uncomfortable shit and I can’t say exactly when things started to click but they did…or they are. I’m far from the pictue of health but I really do continue to get a little better all the time. Two steps forward one step back kinda thing I guess. But one year ago today I wanted to die and now i’m pretty fuckin happy to be alive.
This stuff is somethin else.

> From: jiggy9@hotmail.co.uk
> To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
> Date: Thu, 6 Apr 2006 21:23:39 +0100
> Subject: [Ibogaine] Looking to mud and gold with an equal eye;)’~
> 
> 
> Good Evening to all you people, love and respect to most but,
> Ok all you great Men who think they know it all. how does this sit with you. 
> you all seem to be greedy little men. ok Judge and be judged but you play 
> and tally. Listen i pray and listen good. there are seven paths that any man 
> may walk, through masculine and feminine existence with self. You seek 
> enlightenment. you have the divine writings, but you do not practice them.
> So i shall refresh your memories. OK!!! ‘I’ I am a MAN, not a Robot and 
> therefore feel and see and hear and touch and love and fulfill my desires 
> there is no want within my kingdom. I feel you are many greedy little men of 
> lusts that only want to control.
> Pray read and start again.
> There is no meditation apart from wisdom.
> 
> Those whose hearts are in a state of repose give forth a divine radiance.
> 
> He who is Rich in control renounces everything.
> 
> Truth Honesty, just, pure, lovely, of good report, if there be any virtue 
> and any praise, think of these things. Give thanks for what you have.
> 
> Meditate on thy own Lord in thine own mind with humility and do not create 
> warfare.
> 
> Sit and be still.
> 
> Good one, Whosoever among men attains greatness, they have, as it were, part 
> of the reward of meditation, Reverence, Respect.
> 
> So there you go. by meditating on the word and staying out of ego and power 
> trips, thou shalt be unaffected by the world.
> 
> Keep things simple folks,
> 
> Drink the water, eat the food. Want for nothing, fulfill your desires and 
> remember, I pray, that you can’t eat Sunday Dinner without Gravy, it is too 
> damn dry lololol  Grace!!!
> 
> How can you have any pudding if you don’t eat your meat. Well i can tell you 
> that it all does not matter in the end in the great scale of things. Atoms 
> move, molecules combine, just be and accept.
> 
> Do not harry warfare for warfare sake as you waste your time and energy.
> 
> The true key is just to think twice and feel that you have made the right 
> decision.
> 
> Spiritual and physiological ping pong.
> 
> 
> Ah Flob a LOb a LOB,  Little WEEEEED. I am not a flower pot man and some of 
> you should leave my friends alone ok?                                 You 
> know who you are.
> 
> Peace and respect will bring you to bliss beyond any imagined feelings of 
> fear.
> 
> I retire to eat, laters folks. I pray i woke some of you up and put some 
> light and meaning back into your existences. lololol
> 
> Black feline cat, sees in two watch towers with two lanterns at the same 
> time. This is deception. For to worship two Gods at the same time is Mammon.
> The Egyptians used these tools as slavery the same as governments and 
> agencies use Methadone as social control.
> 
> How can you sell cakes in the Church. lolol
> 
> Get the Syrians out of your camp.
> 
> Ok enough for now. you are all welcome to comment but remember the truth 
> hurts.
> 
> Out of my own ignorance today, cos i thought someone was sincere, I was 
> robbed. no matter i shall replace it. It was only a chattel. But I shall ask 
> and see of the person to see what they will try and use to protect 
> themselves. The ring was a silver three pence piece set in a crown. ah sweet 
> charity. You carry no chain, my love my Sweat.;
> It was given me by a departed friend as remembrance.
> 
> Come sit Partake, Refresh, drink, BE!!!  Sated:)
> 
>                        At last I am a Warrior mighty in Battle.      
> Dinner:)’
> 
> Selah’
> 
>                                                       Paul:)
> 
> Strength, Power, Honour, Respect. Be good to yourselves people and remember 
> self love is not selfish. You do not need Warfare for Warfare sake.’!!!    
> Peace’
> 
> _________________________________________________________________
> Be the first to hear what’s new at MSN – sign up to our free newsletters! 
> http://www.msn.co.uk/newsletters
> 
> 
> 
>   /]=———————————————————————=[\
>  [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
>   \]=———————————————————————=[/
> 
>

From: nruhtra@dsskcorp.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] absorbing various forms ov energy
Date: April 6, 2006 at 7:15:45 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Cc: vox@mindvox.com, crashtestdummies@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

2012 aint g0t shit on me.
sum f0t0s from late 2005 from central american mayan sites.. .

tikal:
http://dsskcorp.com/ibidem/fotographia/centralamerica-late2005/guatemala/tikal/

copan:
http://dsskcorp.com/ibidem/fotographia/centralamerica-late2005/honduras/copan/

fun.

oxycolton.

ps – this place wuz fukn dangerous:
http://dsskcorp.com/ibidem/fotographia/centralamerica-late2005/honduras/c$%20comayaguela.jpg

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: “Billy J” <billjohnson6@sympatico.ca>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Awsome Preston, Going Places
Date: April 6, 2006 at 7:08:56 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Excellent testimonie Pres. i do appreciate your time and words. I haven’t followed your links yet but will respond after I do.
I am hoping to get a Ibogaine session soon, and to become a part of the “elite” Ibo’s.
I must first save a little $$ after I have finished making some sound Plans as to a direction I will be on afterwards. You see I feel that this is it for me, either I do this thing, (get clean) via Ibogaine and all you Good people,( because people are a source of strenght for me) as well as a support system or something.
I am not sure where I am anymore. It seems that I have gotten to a point in life that I have a hard time finding purpose and or any significant meaning, as to what I am here for. Not that I am majorally depressed or anything like that I Have a great wife, kids, a cat (no cattle) lol and I don’t know, I think that maybe this methadone thing for the last 1.5 years or so has somehow squashed my personal drive.
So for now I want to say thanks again for the testimonie, because you have lifted up my hopes that even worst case synario?? I will be better off after a session of Ibogaine.
As I was driving home from work today I was already thinking about my second and or third dose/session of Ibogaine- funny eh!
I’ll go noew and finish reading the posts and then check out your links, I also am interested in writing as well, so I would like to see how a person is to get something posted over the Net like I guess you have.

Later for now Preston,
O ya, I really like the way you responded to my last post,(point  for point).
As far as George Goes , Yes from what I have seen(heard) I do like him, I do not like people being tortured, hurt maimed, Humiliated (Interigations) and the like. I am not even of the thought that maybe what his Gov. has done maybe the lesser of 2 evils. ??? I am not sure if Suddan Hussien was still in power, how many people would have been killed by now under his regime for the same period of time?? I know It doesn’t make it right (fighting) but yes I do believe that if you do see someone beating up on your neighbor or you are walking down the street and someone is getting hurt that WE should do something (help) first, and ask Questions latter. And if I have made a mistake then at least it was for what I though was right.
If you were visiting my country or me yours it should be the same humane rules.
And just because a woman is the one who carries a baby why should she be the one that gets to choose who lives or dies, George Bush shouldn’t and niether shoul a woman, Its her body yes,but lets not be confused as to her rights to her body and a helpless childs right to its body, you see when the child is born she can then give up the baby, why should — never mind – I do not want trouble on this terrific list, and I have only seen a live taped abortion, and the baby was indeed fighting for its life as its was being suched out , first its leg then an arm was ripped off and it was still fighting, yet it had no feelings I guess.
P.s. If she was that worried then maybe she should Masterbate or obstain or we should just teach our children to obstain until they are ready for the comitment and possible concequences of their choices, rather than after. Like Me.

Sorry about the long good bye,
Bill,

—-Original Message Follows—-
From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] (OT!!!!!) Re: [Ibogaine] : Git?Pro-Life?
Date: Thu, 6 Apr 2006 10:26:53 -0400
MIME-Version: 1.0
Received: from tomts39-srv.bellnexxia.net ([209.226.175.96]) by bay0-pamc1-f13.bay0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Thu, 6 Apr 2006 07:25:56 -0700
Received: from toip5.bellnexxia.net ([209.226.175.88])          by tomts39-srv.bellnexxia.net          (InterMail vM.5.01.06.10 201-253-122-130-110-20040306) with ESMTP          id <20060406142555.RVRJ11764.tomts39-srv.bellnexxia.net@toip5.bellnexxia.net>          for <billjohnson6@sympatico.ca>; Thu, 6 Apr 2006 10:25:55 -0400
Received: from tanelorn.mindvox.com (HELO mail.mindvox.com) ([64.124.179.118])  by toip5.bellnexxia.net with ESMTP; 06 Apr 2006 10:25:49 -0400
Received: (qmail 12136 invoked by uid 513); 6 Apr 2006 10:25:46 -0400
Received: (qmail 12128 invoked by uid 514); 6 Apr 2006 10:25:45 -0400
X-Message-Info: moY6YVwXQ44yyPuAUZLw08e03HuNt3nhxkkL66rVAVA=
Mailing-List: contact ibogaine-help@mindvox.com; run by ezmlm
Precedence: bulk
X-No-Archive: yes
List-Post: <mailto:ibogaine@mindvox.com>
List-Help: <mailto:ibogaine-help@mindvox.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:ibogaine-unsubscribe@mindvox.com>
List-Subscribe: <mailto:ibogaine-subscribe@mindvox.com>
Delivered-To: mailing list ibogaine@mindvox.com
X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.3 required=4.0
X-Antivirus-MYDOMAIN-Mail-From: ptpeet@nyc.rr.com via tanelorn.mindvox.com
X-Antivirus-MYDOMAIN: 1.25-st-qms (Clear:RC:0(24.29.109.7):SA:0(-2.3/4.0):. Processed in 6.158475 secs Process 12014)
References: <BAY16-F2E9DAD475A1238853A7B1FDC80@phx.gbl>
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180
X-Virus-Scanned: Symantec AntiVirus Scan Engine
Return-Path: ibogaine-return-23428-billjohnson6=sympatico.ca@mindvox.com
X-OriginalArrivalTime: 06 Apr 2006 14:25:56.0686 (UTC) FILETIME=[04C09EE0:01C65986]

Can we try to hold the name calling down a notch, it gets to be rather
personal, and I do not need any excuse to be a GIT ( new word for me today),<

Ok Bill, sure. I apologize for getting personal. I’ve been having a major issue with patience recently, and it seems to be doing a lot more harm than good, being impatient. It’s a real difficult thing for me suddenly, and I’m not exactly sure why I’m being this way, so short fused and such, but I am trying to keep myself in check, even if I’m not apparently doing such a great job of it as of late.

but I would just like to see people realize
that if I am at least TRYING and they are trying then it (any good effort)
would mor likely be won with a little honey rather than  vinager.<

Yeah, I agree, even taking my recent impatience issues into account.

Would it not be logical that I would be the one
that doesn’t want to see People die in Iraq?, and you would technically say
that George W Bush can choose (with his Cronies) anything they want and it
is his right?<

I would think you’d be supportive of saving the lives of all living creatures Bill, if you do consider yourself “pro-life,” but the impression I got from your post was that you were supportive of Bush and that the troops are somehow “protecting” us here in the US by killing and being killed in Iraq.
Bush “choosing” to kill others, is not in my mind something that is “cool” to choose, in that by doing so he isn’t choosing for himself, he’s choosing for everyone, including those dying by his decisions. It’s no ones right in my mind to infringe upon, brutalize or murder others. I consider a pregnant woman’s body to be hers to do with as she chooses, until birth.  At that point we have another “person” enter the picture. Before then, it’s her body and her decision. In my mind anyway. Those being killed by Bush have their own choices and rights and Bush doesn’t in my mind have the right to erase them.

Lets just keep looking for answers and try to word things in such a way to
direct people to do good<

Ok, you are right. I’ve been letting myself get way out of any rational state lately, flying off the nandle over imagined AND real slights, things I shouldn’t and can chose not to let affect me thusly. So I do again apologize for my tone, to you and to the list.
I think I need to do some lurking or something.

And thanks for the article.<

You’re welcome.
;-))

Have a Great day Preston.
and Have you taken  Ibogaine <

Yes:

http://www.drugwar.com/pkickingdrugswithdrugs.shtm
Kicking Drugs with Drugs-
Taking the Left Hand Path
By Preston Peet
For DrugWar.com
Posted August 12, 2004
snip-

http://www.drugwar.com/lefthandpath2.shtm
Taking the Left Hand Path.
Again
By
Preston Peet
posted at DrugWar.com
April 19, 2005
(Remember Waco!)

http://www.drugwar.com/sitwchap29.shtm

Something in the Way-
an excerpt
Chapter 29-
The Entheogenic Bed and Breakfast Detox-
An Amsterdam Redux
by Preston Peet
all photos by Preston Peet
unless otherwise noted
posted at DrugWar.com
Feb. 20, 2006
snip-
—-
Yet, If so are you clean today?<

I still use opiate-based pain medication(s) for chronic pain problems. That said, I use them entirely as prescribed (often less than), still, and see no negative changes coming this time, at this point, in my use of them. I might be unduly optimistic, but can’t help it. I feel so much differently than ever before, about my pain and the use of pain meds both. Whether I’m fooling myself or not, only time, and my own decisions, will tell. Still, I can honestly say that ibogaine has allowed me to make drastic changes in the way I behave, treat myself and those around me (other than for the aforementioned and acknowleged issue with lack of patience lately) and I don’t regret finally taking it at all, even the number of times I’ve now taken it at one dose or another (I think I’m up to seven times now total, in either extremely small doses or full on treatment sized doses. I’ve since learned that this isn’t even uncommon, that many folk find they need more than one or two or more treatments to “get it” finally.)
So again, my apologies to the list for my outraged, impatient posts. I’ve got other things to worry about, so admit I’m wasting tons of energy on things I cannot change and on being nasty, which only leaves me feeling more unsettled, if I’m not careful.
Please have a good day all.

—–
“If God dropped acid, would he see people?”  ~Steven Wright

Peace, love and lotsof respect.
Preston

—– Original Message —– From: “Billy J” <billjohnson6@sympatico.ca>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Thursday, April 06, 2006 9:51 AM
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] (OT!!!!!) Re: [Ibogaine] : Git?Pro-Life?

hey Preston,
Homophob here,
just a rebuttal.
I would just like to make it clear about spreading hatred, It is WORDS, that do that, Here I am a unrecovered Drug addict,trying (not that hard I guess) to get staight, and when someone says nasty things about ?? I have a Hard time to get them out of my so simple brain.
I definetly and honestly do not mean any DISRESPECT to Dana, and I am sorry If I came across that way, You see I am learning how to communicate and trying to make a little differance in my little world, So back on topic,
Can we try to hold the name calling down a notch, it gets to be rather personal, and I do not need any excuse to be a GIT ( new word for me today), I am wjat I am and if it means to be a shield for a fellow human being (not a animal but a 2 legged) then so be it.
Dana I would gladly CLIC on an effort to help stop ANY bloodshed or any Lying Fascist or what have you, but I would just like to see people realize that if I am at least TRYING and they are trying then it (any good effort) would mor likely be won with a little honey rather than  vinager.
One more thing, If I am Pro-Life (I think that is reffering to helping someone stay alive) and you are Pro-Choice, (technically meaning doing away with a Blob?Baby?Feotus?) Would it not be logical that I would be the one that doesn’t want to see People die in Iraq?, and you would technically say that George W Bush can choose (with his Cronies) anything they want and it is his right?
You see (I am now shaking) It is really starting to look like WHAT IS WRONG HAS BECOME RIGHT AND WHAT IS RIGHT IS NOW WRONG??
Lets just keep looking for answers and try to word things in such a way to direct people to do good and not be totally influenced by someone that may appear to have more intelligence than they.
And thanks for the article.

I am hear to get a life and not loose it.
I want to get off dope and to stop being a dope so If I ever am wrong (as I think I was in my previous words) then please try to remember that I was born Human.

Have a Great day Preston.
and Have you taken  Ibogaine Yet, If so are you clean today?

Billy The human today
(finally got my Meth 45 minutes ago)
snip-

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: “Paul Brookshaw” <jiggy9@hotmail.co.uk>
Subject: [Ibogaine] Looking to mud and gold with an equal eye;)’~
Date: April 6, 2006 at 4:23:39 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Good Evening to all you people, love and respect to most but,
Ok all you great Men who think they know it all. how does this sit with you. you all seem to be greedy little men. ok Judge and be judged but you play and tally. Listen i pray and listen good. there are seven paths that any man may walk, through masculine and feminine existence with self. You seek enlightenment. you have the divine writings, but you do not practice them.
So i shall refresh your memories. OK!!! ‘I’ I am a MAN, not a Robot and therefore feel and see and hear and touch and love and fulfill my desires there is no want within my kingdom. I feel you are many greedy little men of lusts that only want to control.
Pray read and start again.
There is no meditation apart from wisdom.

Those whose hearts are in a state of repose give forth a divine radiance.

He who is Rich in control renounces everything.

Truth Honesty, just, pure, lovely, of good report, if there be any virtue and any praise, think of these things. Give thanks for what you have.

Meditate on thy own Lord in thine own mind with humility and do not create warfare.

Sit and be still.

Good one, Whosoever among men attains greatness, they have, as it were, part of the reward of meditation, Reverence, Respect.

So there you go. by meditating on the word and staying out of ego and power trips, thou shalt be unaffected by the world.

Keep things simple folks,

Drink the water, eat the food. Want for nothing, fulfill your desires and remember, I pray, that you can’t eat Sunday Dinner without Gravy, it is too damn dry lololol  Grace!!!

How can you have any pudding if you don’t eat your meat. Well i can tell you that it all does not matter in the end in the great scale of things. Atoms move, molecules combine, just be and accept.

Do not harry warfare for warfare sake as you waste your time and energy.

The true key is just to think twice and feel that you have made the right decision.

Spiritual and physiological ping pong.

Ah Flob a LOb a LOB,  Little WEEEEED. I am not a flower pot man and some of you should leave my friends alone ok?                                 You know who you are.

Peace and respect will bring you to bliss beyond any imagined feelings of fear.

I retire to eat, laters folks. I pray i woke some of you up and put some light and meaning back into your existences. lololol

Black feline cat, sees in two watch towers with two lanterns at the same time. This is deception. For to worship two Gods at the same time is Mammon.
The Egyptians used these tools as slavery the same as governments and agencies use Methadone as social control.

How can you sell cakes in the Church. lolol

Get the Syrians out of your camp.

Ok enough for now. you are all welcome to comment but remember the truth hurts.

Out of my own ignorance today, cos i thought someone was sincere, I was robbed. no matter i shall replace it. It was only a chattel. But I shall ask and see of the person to see what they will try and use to protect themselves. The ring was a silver three pence piece set in a crown. ah sweet charity. You carry no chain, my love my Sweat.;
It was given me by a departed friend as remembrance.

Come sit Partake, Refresh, drink, BE!!!  Sated:)

At last I am a Warrior mighty in Battle.      Dinner:)’

Selah’

Paul:)

Strength, Power, Honour, Respect. Be good to yourselves people and remember self love is not selfish. You do not need Warfare for Warfare sake.’!!!    Peace’

_________________________________________________________________
Be the first to hear what’s new at MSN – sign up to our free newsletters! http://www.msn.co.uk/newsletters

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: Kirk <captkirk@clear.net.nz>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] (ot) Fw: ghosts in the mist
Date: April 6, 2006 at 4:16:16 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Thx Preston!!
I was a little wound up this morning, but that was so nice n soothing.
Think I can go lie down now for a while……
CK

—–Original Message—–
From: Preston Peet [mailto:ptpeet@nyc.rr.com]
Sent: Thursday, 6 April 2006 10:30 p.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com; drugwar@mindvox.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] (ot) Fw: ghosts in the mist

This is pretty off topic, but hey, we all get our buzzes in different ways.
Right?
Remember you need to read the story first, then turn your volume up so you
can hear “the cameraman whispering” about the ghost.
;-0))

—–
“If God dropped acid, would he see people?”  ~Steven Wright

Peace, love and lotsof respect.
Preston Peet
ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor Underground- the Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations,
Astonishing Archaeology and Hidden History
Editor Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Columnist HighTimes mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —–
From: Gabriela Vuichoud
Sent: Thursday, April 06, 2006 2:38 AM
Subject: ghosts in the mist

You MUST READ THE STORY BEFORE WATCHING THE VIDEO – volume required

Strange but interesting.
This is a car advertisement from Great Britain.
When they finished filming the ad, the film editor noticed something
moving along the side of the car, like a ghostly white mist. They found out
that a person had been killed a year earlier in that exact same spot.

The ad was never put on TV because of the unexplained ghostly
phenomenon.

Watch the front end of the car as it clears the trees in the middle of
the screen and you’ll see the white mist crossing in front of the car then
following it along the road….Spooky!

Is it a ghost, or is it simply mist? You decide.

If you listen to the ad, you’ll even hear the cameraman whispering in
the background about it near the end of the commercial.

CLINIQUE LA PRAIRIE
Gabriela Vuichoud
snip-

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: “Tyler Case” <tfc2101@columbia.edu>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] OT! Eating cattle or food
Date: April 6, 2006 at 3:24:36 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Preston, I like your analogy to addiction.  Of course, its different because we’re not talking about continuosly doing something despite knowledge of personal harm (though there are some harms in eating a lot of meat, and of course some extrapersonal harm in many cases of addiction), but rather compassion for another, which takes some effort to muster (until you change your diet and it becomes habitual).

To take AA’s approach, we can look at it one meal at a time.  Think how tasty a plate of fried chicken would be right now.  Think about the sensual satisfaction you would experience while eating it, and for those few blissful minutes after you’ve finished the plate before you start thinking about food again.   Then think about the chicken who had to suffer from hatching to maturity only to be chopped up, deep fried and served with honey mustard.  The ratio of Fried Chicken serving: Chicken is only about 2:1.  Is it really worth it to sacrifice a chicken every 2 times you want some KFC, which will cause only temporary satisfaction and some detrament to health?   To me, anyone who seriously considers this logically will see that is out of balance, but then again the urge to eat meat is probably strong enough to tilt the balance back in the direction of carnivory in most cases.  I don’t think its that humans are cold-hearted, its that we’re detached from the process.  The process would have a lot more salience if you had to go out and kill the chicken yourself.  I actually don’t feel so terrible about people hunting down a deer (which doesn’t suffer its entire life) and eating it, as long as they don’t waste it.  I admit that if I was starving and the only thing around was a rabbit, I would probably chuck a rock at it and cook it up to stay alive, but that is a lot different than treating an animal as a factory-produced pleasure to be enjoyed several times a day.  We don’t really think about our food because we don’t have to, and that’s dangerous.

Defenders of eating meat often say that human life is worth more than an animal’s life.  And while that may be right, or at least difficult to argue against, it is not a realistic reflection of the process.  A thoughtful meat-eater should instead say that “The satisfaction of eating two meals is worth more than animal’s life.”  Or “A human life with burgers and fried chicken is worth more than 10,000 animals’ lives and suffering.”  Don’t hold me to the math, but I’m sure you get the idea.

Tyler

On 4/6/06, Nick Sandberg <nick227@tiscali.co.uk> wrote:
Alan,

Personally, I don’t think you give a shit about animals. Seems to me like it’s just a lever you use to condemn people. You’re riddled with trips you can’t own yet and so you just project them randomly on people by starting little arguments everywhere, giving you the opportunity to lay in to them with a bit of condemnation. Well, that’s not so bad but I don’t feel anything in you like you give a shit. It’s just like a giant mind firing off into space. Can’t go anywhere, man.

Nick

From: Alan Hehe [mailto:a.h.veil68@hotmail.com] 
Sent: 06 April 2006 00:00 
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] OT! Eating cattle or food

 

Jon–
I hope you are kidding about brocolli feeling pain. That must be put there for a laugh.
This will probably be my last post, so I will say this: From debating in high school and different forums, and just from alot of research, I’ve learned one thing beyond any doubt: Anyone can make an argument, for or against, any idea, belief, or position–often using the same data. If you believe eating meat is okay, you will tend to gather evidence to support your belief, and exclude evidence that negates it. If you believe eating meat is wrong, the same is true. It’s not so much that I believe eating meat itself is wrong, it’s more that I feel we’re holding ourselves back from evolving spiritually and emotionally, from finding peace, by the way we treat our “food”–which is living, breathing, caring animals who are put to death and kept in the most inhumane fashions possible, all because we believe we are better than them, and since they are “only food”, it doesn’t matter how they are treated. But if you lock a cute little dog in a hot car for half a day, you can go to jail for that. We only want to save the cute animals. But we think nothin of the bull who gets his balls cut off with a knife without a drop of painkiller…and we’re egotistic enough to say..”ahh, he doesn’t feel anything.” But yet people like Bill are sure like a foetus, even though it’s C.N.S. isn’t even developed, the nerve endings aren’t formed yet, it must be going through agony.
So, you can make an argument for just about anything…but you have to live with the consequences if you turn out to be wrong.

From:   jon@mindvox.com

Reply-To:  ibogaine@mindvox.com
To:  ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject:  Re: [Ibogaine] OT! Eating cattle or food
Date:  Wed, 5 Apr 2006 16:05:29 -0400 (EDT)
>
>Well, ok… I’ll go through this point by point…
>
>Not all plants feel pain, but some do… e.g., broccoli. Likewise, while
>most animals do feel pain, not all do.. e.g. assorted types of shellfish.
>Again, the line between plant and animal is not as clear cut as people
>make it out to be.
>
>As for the heart attacks, it is true that meat-eaters are more likely to
>suffer from that, as well as from assorted food poisonings and infections
>transmitted by tainted meat. But non-meat-eaters are more likely to suffer
>from depression, anemia, and assorted other ailments. So, it’s a trade
>off.
>
>Your argument about our digestive system is completely off base. It’s
>actually easier for humans (and other primates) to digest meat than to
>digest plant matter. The main reason is that plant cells have tough cell
>walls, while animal cells do not. Our digestive system is not set up to
>get optimal nutrition from plants; for that we would need a digestive
>system more similar to a cow (i.e., multiple stomachs, cud-chewing, longer
>intenstines, etc.) This is why, for example, when you eat corn it comes
>out whole at the other end. Humans are not especially good at digesting
>most plant matter.
>
>Based purely on our biology, humans are set up to be omnivores.  This is
>because our digestive system has characterstics of both carnivores (e.g. a
>single stomach and canines) and herbivores (e.g. molars). The length of
>our digestive system is much shorter than that of pure herbivores, but
>longer than that of pure carnivores. Optimal human nutrition is best
>acheived by eating a balanced diet of animals and plants.
>
>I do conceed that the way industrialised nations go about farming meat is
>pretty brutal. But then, so is the way industrialised nations go about
>farming plants as well.
>
>And so is the way industrialised nations do most things, for that matter..
>
>
> >   Hey–
> >    Just wanted to say that, asides from clams or mussells maybe, plants do
> > not have a C>N>S and do not experience pain like animals, who have pain
> > receptors just like we do. Also, there are other reasons for not eating
> > meat: like health reasons…Meat eaters have about a 35-40% chance of
> > dying from a heart attack do their diet, while vegetarians only have
> > about 5% chance. That’s quite a difference.
> >      Furthermore–yes, plants are alive! That’s the whole idea! You only
> > obtain true life energy from living things! The meat you eat has been
> > dead for God only knows how long, has very little nutritional value.
> > Also, because we have a digestive track that’s over 20 feet long,
> > alot of the meat you eat rots in your intestines, releasing all kinds
> > of nasty toxins. In addition, when animals are slaughtered in the
> > mass murder method we use, they’re not so stupid that they don’t know
> > what’s going on…Animals (just like the animal called a dog) are
> > very keen at sensing fear, not just within us, but within their own
> > ranks. As they approach their death, they are terrified, and release
> > a multitude of chemicals into their bloodstreams, which, when we eat,
> > have an effect on us…mainly anger and fear, which are closely
> > linked.
> >     Well, I have to go…You have the choice to eat whatever you want..I
> > used to eat meat, and still do occasionally…but I swear to you that
> > I feel a hundred times lighter since I started eating less meat, and
> > alot more full of life. And if you don’t think I know what I’m talking
> > about, here a guy that was kinda smart, and his take on vegetarianism
> > vs. eating meat:
> > “Nothing will benefit health and increase the chances of survival of life
> > on Earth as the evoloution to a vegetarian diet..”—Albert Einstein.
> >
> >      From:  jon@mindvox.com
> > Reply-To:  ibogaine@mindvox.com
> > To:   ibogaine@mindvox.com
> > Subject:  Re: [Ibogaine] OT! Eating cattle or food
> > Date:  Wed, 5 Apr 2006 14:24:56 -0400 (EDT)
> >>potatoes have eyes too =P
> >>
> >>i remember this punk song about how silly it is that vegetarians, for
> >>example, don’t eat clams… because clams have essentially the same kind
> >>of nervous system as broccoli and cauliflower…
> >>
> >>the line between plant and animal is not an entirely clear one.. and the
> >>decision to eat plants but not animals seems to me a pretty arbitrary
> >> one.
> >>plants are living, breathing, and to some degree, thinking creatures as
> >>well. but they get no love from PETA…
> >>
> >>i guess my basic point is.. eat whatever you’re  comfortable with. but

> >>realise that whatever you eat, ANYTHING you eat, inflicts suffering on
> >>some creature.
> >>
> >>such is the nature of life.
> >>
> >>
> >>ahaha… speaking of PETA, i saw the best bumper sticker a couple weeks
> >>ago….eheh… it said:
> >>
> >>”PETA – People Eating Tasty Animals”
> >>
> >>=)
> >>
> >>oh, and one more thing… as for the whole pet vs. food argument… i
> >> know
> >>for a fact that if my cat ever got the chance, he would totally eat me.
> >> so
> >>i don’t wanna hear it.. =P
> >>
> >>
> >> > for me eating meat in a society where it’s unnecessary merely promotes
> >> the
> >> > fear/bloodthirsty addiction so prevalent in the Western world. I can
> >> see
> >> > eating meat in a society where there are no alternatives, but where I
> >> live
> >> > it’s easy to not eat meat, and I’m  glad.
> >> > I still do dairy and eggs, but can’t eat anything that might lick it’s
> >> > fellow beings, or nuzzle them, or communicate in any way, shape or
> >> form
> >> > with
> >> > one another, even chickens (which I’ve been told are ok to eat because
> >> > “they’re stupid.” If that were the only criteria for being ok to eat,
> >> I’d
> >> > be
> >> > a cannibal). Again, this is only my own viewpoint, but there seems to
> >> be
> >> > something unenlightened, to me, how some folk can have “pets” but call
> >> > cattle mere “food,” making no connection to the living, breathing,
> >> > thinking
> >> > creatures sharing the planet with us.
> >> >
> >> > Butt, and it’s a great big butt, I can’t really fault anyone for their
> >> > eating habits beyond stating how I personally feel, particularly about
> >> >  factory farming, inhumane treatment of our “food” and the wonton
> >> slaughter
> >> > of living creatures when it isn’t necessary for our survival, only to
> >> feed
> >> > our addiction to blood and flesh these days (Of course one couuld take
> >> > this
> >> > to extreme and tell me plants are also living, but I limit my empathy
> >> and
> >> > eating ban to beings with eys I guess).
> >> >     That’s because I’m…pro-choice at heart.
> >> >
> >> > —–
> >> > “If God dropped acid, would he see people?”  ~Steven Wright
> >> >
> >> > Peace, love and lotsof respect.
> >> > Preston Peet
> >> > ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
> >> > Editor Underground- the Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations,
> >> > Astonishing Archaeology and Hidden History
> >> > Editor Under the Influence- the  Disinformation Guide to Drugs
> >> > Editor http://www.drugwar.com
> >> > Columnist HighTimes mag/.com
> >> > Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
> >> > Columnist New York Waste
> >> > Etc.
> >> >
> >> > —– Original Message —–
> >> > From: Crooked Eye
> >> > To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
> >> > Sent: Tuesday, April 04, 2006 3:53 AM
> >> > Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Whats a Republican?
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > Cow’s are tasty…  If we aren’t supposed to eat animals, then why are
> >> > they
> >> > made out of meat?  😀  I fail how to see eating cows equates to
> >> racism…
> >> > I
> >> > eat a lot of cows, but I have a mixed family…  If it makes you feel
> >> any
> >> > better we eat a lot of chickens, too..  I love turkey, the  tryptophan
> >> > makes
> >> > me sleepy…
> >> >
> >> > Alan Hehe  wrote:
> >> >    Don’t call me Baby…well, you can…since you’re not close enough
> >> for
> >> > me
> >> > to do anything about it! Plus, that’s a freedom, too…Just like my
> >> > ability
> >> > to talk about pro-choice. As for your information, no, I don’t think
> >> the
> >> > way
> >> > the abortion system is set up–but I absolutely believe in having the
> >> > right…And no, you don’t have 9 months to decide whether to have the
> >> rug
> >> > rat or not–there is a cut-off, a limit to when abortions can be
> >> > performed.
> >> >      And so you think, because cows aren’t pets, or aren’t ‘cute’,
> >> then
> >> > it’s
> >> > okay to torture them?  And to cut the balls of bulls off without any
> >> > anesthetic? To make chickens live in a cage so small they can barely
> >> turn
> >> > around? And George Bush–wanting to save lives! LOL! That’s the
> >> biggest
> >> > joke
> >> > I’ve ever heard! But it figures; you’re not special..alot of the
> >> people in
> >> > this country are brain-washed by the constant disinformation they are
> >> > fed….Why do you think there are a hundred commercials warning of the
> >> > dangers of marijuana, one of the least harmful drugs known to man, but
> >> yet
> >> > maybe one out of those hundred about the truly dangerous drugs, like H
> >> or
> >> > Coke?
> >> >        And you don’t have to be a hindu to have compassion for animals
> >> > other
> >> > than cats and dogs, you dumb-ass red-neck! In some places  they eat
> >> > dogs…would that be okay if they ate your dog? You know, I’m totally
> >> > wasting my time talking to you, I can already tell that you are way
> >> > undereducated, extremely prejudiced. Cows are just food. Are blacks
> >> just
> >> > niggers, too? God, I can’t stand fuckin’ red-necks like you,
> >> especially
> >> > the
> >> > ones that actually think they’re smart. Once you start doing away with
> >> > freedoms, it’s all down-hill. Who’s going to decide what’s right and
> >> > wrong?
> >> > You?! I would happily put a hollow-point 45 shell into my head if that
> >> > possibility existed..of course G.W.B. is quite the redneck himself,
> >> which
> >> > is
> >> > why you probably like him. First of all, HE’s not fighting for
> >> anything. I
> >> > have respect for the soldiers; they don’t decide the mission,  they
> >> just do
> >> > what they’re told. And how many babies do you think die while we were
> >> > waging
> >> > a war we were totally lied to about? Or is that okay? You think the
> >> babies
> >> > over there even know what a terrorist is? This world is already
> >> > over-populated..if people like you ran things, the world would run out
> >> of
> >> > resources within a decade! The oh so precious children! Everyone
> >> starts
> >> > out
> >> > as a child..some people, like you, remain one, in their minds, their
> >> whole
> >> > life. But those sweet children often grow up to be killers and
> >> rapists,
> >> > and
> >> > often for no apparent reason!  Strong belief does only one thing:
> >> close
> >> > your
> >> > mind. Boy, that ibogaine is gonna have fun with you!!!!! Cows are just
> >> > food!
> >> > Well, we’re  just food, too…if a grizzly decides you look good! God,
> >> what
> >> > egotism!  You claim to be a Christian (I do not) but you must have
> >> misssed
> >> > the part about not judging lest you be judged yourself…And I bet
> >> ibo’s
> >> > gonna drive that one home with a psychoactive sledgehammer! You’ve got
> >> > your
> >> > response, but I really no longer wish to talk with you. I’ve spent too
> >> > much
> >> > time arguing with all the fascists on this list, instead of hanging
> >> out
> >> > with
> >> > the cool, in the know ,people: by that meaning knowing that the whole
> >> > Govt.
> >> > is totally corrupt, actually controlled by a few wealthy and extremely
> >> > powerful people, and they constantly just feed us disinformation,
> >> while
> >> > manipulating the world through economic control, etc, and alot  of
> >> other
> >> > things you wouldn’t understand. BYE< NOW, Billy BOY. Go get a burger!
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > From:  “Billy J”
> >> > Reply-To:   ibogaine@mindvox.com
> >> > To:  ibogaine@mindvox.com
> >> > Subject:  RE: [Ibogaine] Whats a Republican?
> >> > Date:  Tue, 04 Apr 2006 02:19:25 -0400
> >> >>Hear this peace and take it to your Heart FRIEND.
> >> >>1st if we go back to Killing kids for the sins of their fathers
> >> >>(Child of a Rapist) Do you think that is more civilized then Raising
> >> >>Cattle for food,(Cattle are food “not Pets”) although you may be
> >> >>from India or somewhere that they worship your cows and even there
> >> >>fecal matter I hear!  Now if your are at that junkger(Place) then I
> >> >>will have to say -well Al, Bless you, but when was the last time you
> >> >>had your precious cow go to war for YOUR FREEDOMS that I am sure you
> >> >>are enjoying- Yes?
> >> >>   Allan , do you really love cows (the 4 legged ones that is) or
> >> >>are you in your 2nd or 3rd reincarnation and you where once a cow
> >> >>and you have come into this wierd mooing stage and you just could
> >> >>not figure it out.
> >> >>  Ok That is sarcasm – Sorry< I’ll get serious.
> >> >>Oh Ya Your aborting a fetus-, and yes I know that in the USof A
> >> >>being the most civilized Nation that has usually voted anti-
> >> >>Christian ( just in case somebody didn’t let Everybody do what FEELs
> >> >>GOOD)
> >>  >>Ya you can Have sex with anybody you want and then if a girl gets
> >> >>pregnant, or do you call it fetus something, oh well  so shes
> >> >>pregnant you have 9 months to decide whether or not you what the
> >> >>little BLOB Because your fetus can be kicking up a storm and as long
> >> >>as you can keep its stupid( oh it,s brain isn’t functioning yet
> >> >>,right) well as long as you can keep its head inside the grown up
> >> >>fetus ( that would be the female, The pregnant one, knocked up one ,
> >> >>dumb one what ever you would call someone like that ( Maybe MOM)
> >> >>well just reach in and CRUSH ITS SCULL and or STICK A SYRINGE INTO
> >> >>THe Back of it HEAD JUST UNTIL ITS STOPS PUTTINGN UP A FIGHT, AND
> >> >>they do fight Allan, just go and ask your abortion doctor.–  PARTIAL
> >> >>BIRTH ABORTION– VERY NICE–
> >> >>  oH YA AND YOU KNOW WHAT ALLY BABY THAT STUPID WAR MOGER THAT YOU
> >> >>HAVE AS A PRESIDENT WOULD LIKE NOTHING MORE THAN TO SAVE PEOPLE BUT
> >> >>ALL YOU PEOPLE THAT GOD GAVE YOU FREE CHOICE HAVE DECIDED TO VOTE
> >> >>FOR THE REAL KILLERS-
> >> >>   Have you any clue how many of your fetuses are done away with
> >> >>each year in the USA alone,, Allan Baby– way way more in 1 year
> >> >>than have been killed in ALL the World wars— How many do you think
> >> >>are rape and how many are just another form of birth control,, Your
> >> >>Planned Parenthood is a multi-Billion dollar industry that fights
> >> >>for you to have the freedom to get rid of your Babies- But They do
> >> >>not do it for free– They  are rich.One more thing if we can justify
> >> >>killing because you THINK they don’t feel pain- Why not line up all
> >> >>us addicts right after a good whack and while we are feeling no pain
> >> >>BANG-
> >> >>Save a lot of tax dollars- The Meth Clinics would be Pissed though.
> >> >>
> >> >>Love Ya!
> >> >>
> >> >>Just Don’t say it is OK To Kill My Children- Or Yours
> >> >>
> >> >>B
> >> >>
> >> >>—-Original Message Follows—-
> >> >>From: “Alan Hehe”
> >> >>Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
> >> >>To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
> >> >>Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] RE: [Pornography,psychology,Choice,force,) 2
> >> >>cents
> >> >>Date: Tue, 04 Apr 2006 01:25:21 -0400
> >> >>MIME-Version:   1.0
> >> >>Received: from tomts30-srv.bellnexxia.net ([ 209.226.175.104]) by
> >> >>bay0-pamc1-f3.bay0.hotmail.com with Microsoft
> >> >>SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Mon, 3 Apr 2006 22:27:22 -0700
> >> >>Received: from toip4.bellnexxia.net ([209.226.175.87])          by
> >> >> tomts30-srv.bellnexxia.net          (InterMail vM.5.01.06.13
> >> >>201-253-122-130-113-20050324) with ESMTP          id
> >> >>
> >> >>          for ; Tue, 4 Apr 2006 01:27:21
> >> >>-0400
> >> >>Received: from   tanelorn.mindvox.com (HELO mail.mindvox.com)
> >> >>([ 64.124.179.118])  by toip4.bellnexxia.net with ESMTP; 04 Apr 2006
> >> >>01:27:16 -0400
> >> >>Received: (qmail 1073 invoked by uid 513); 4 Apr 2006 01:27:15 -0400
> >> >>Received: (qmail 1067 invoked by uid 514); 4 Apr 2006 01:27:15 -0400
> >> >>X-Message-Info: moY6YVwXQ46hfM+PXD+r03SFMVOY3E1daJYU/Sm1Nkw=
> >> >>Mailing-List: contact ibogaine-help@mindvox.com; run by ezmlm
> >> >>Precedence: bulk
> >> >>X-No-Archive: yes
> >> >>List-Post:
> >> >>List-Help:
> >> >>List-Unsubscribe:
> >> >>List-Subscribe:
> >> >>Delivered-To: mailing list   ibogaine@mindvox.com
> >> >>X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.1 required=4.0
> >> >>X-Antivirus-MYDOMAIN-Mail-From: a.h.veil68@hotmail.com via
> >> >> tanelorn.mindvox.com
> >> >>X-Antivirus-MYDOMAIN: 1.25-st-qms
> >> >>(Clear:RC:0( 65.54.224.26):SA:0(-2.1/4.0):. Processed in 8.08646 secs
> >> >>Process 1055)
> >> >>Return-Path:
> >> >>ibogaine-return-23280-billjohnson6= sympatico.ca@mindvox.com
> >> >>X-OriginalArrivalTime: 04 Apr 2006 05:27:22.0868 (UTC)
> >> >>FILETIME=[7363CB40:01C657A8]
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>   I gotta take a piece of this one. Okay, Mr. Anti-choice, let me
> >> >>ask you this: do you eat meat? If not, then good for you. If so,
> >> >>have you ever though about the actual, truly painful, totally
> >>  >>inhumane treatment we put animals through? And usually don’t think
> >> >>twice about it…It’s people like George Bush who make me wish
> >> >>sometimes that God would hurl an asteroid at us! It’s “God forbid
> >> >>one human foetus (who does not feel a thing if the abortion is done
> >> >>in a timely manner, according to the latest research, because their
> >> >>nervous system isn’t nearly fully developed) should perish, no
> >> >>matter if it was caused by a rape or is probably going to be born
> >> >>into alot of suffering–but while I’m on my high horse, cut me a
> >> >>piece o that cow off and cook it up! It’s sheer egotism that we
> >> >>believe that humans are so damned
> >> >>important, but it’s okay if we torture animals, ruin the planet, and
> >> >>make other people  adhere to our beliefs!!! We’re not that important!
> >> >>And if you believe in a God and the soul, then you know that–if the
> >> >>foetus even has a soul yet, which I don’t believe it does..I believe
> >> >>the soul enters with the first breath, and leaves with the
> >> >>last–that baby is just going back into the arms of God! There is no
> >> >>death! And since they don’t experience pain, all it becomes is
> >> >>something for people like you to feel self righteous about!
> >> >>Personally, I think everyone should smoke pot, and would benefit
> >> >>from it (except for a few cases), but how would you like it if I
> >> >>MADE you smoke it? That is, if you don’t, and don’t like it. Or
> >> >>let’s say you eat meat, but I think it’s just as evil to do that as
> >> >>to allow abortions, so  I outlawed meat–would that be okay with you?
> >> >>And the cliff analogy is just stupid–not
> >> >>the same thing at all. But yes, I think if a person is truly
> >> >>miserable, and wants to die, I would try to talk them out of it, but
> >> >>I would never stop them by force. That’s called LACK OF FREEDOM. And
> >> >>if we didn’t make mistakes, how would we ever learn? To be told
> >> >>something is wrong is one thing..you can tell a person, fire will
> >> >>burn you..but until they get burned, they will not truly understand,
> >> >>and that’s what life is all about–learning. No, I don’t like to see
> >> >>foetus’ abortions–I think prevention is the answer….But
> >> >>sometimes, I believe it is ‘the best choice’. If everyone like you
> >> >>had their way, there really would be NO  ROOM AT ALL left!!! We’re
> >> >>already sooo over-populated! It’s like I heard some character say in
> >> >>a movie recently..”everybody’s kids are so special…it makes you
> >> >>wonder where all the normal adults come from”. Even God believes in
> >> >>freedom of choice! That’s why he gave
> >> >>us FREE WILL. You’re a Republican, aren’t you? And you probably
> >> >>think that war-mongering asshole of a President is the best-thing
> >> >>since sliced bread, eh? It’s okay to kill, as long as it’s not a
> >> >>precious child…even though that child may grow up to be The Son of
> >> >>Sam!  well…”take me by the ham, no good, no evil, no give a
> >> >>damn!”  And the Govt. is lying to you! About just about everything.
> >> >>Peace, love, and freedom. Life is too  mysterious to take it so
> >> >>serious!
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>From:  “Billy J”
> >> >>Reply-To:  ibogaine@mindvox.com
> >> >>To:   ibogaine@mindvox.com
> >> >>Subject:  [Ibogaine] RE: [Pornography,psychology,Choice,force,) 2
> >> >>cents
> >> >>Date:  Sun, 02 Apr 2006 21:45:39 -0400
> >> >> >Well It sounds like this place is really mixing it up so I would
> >> >> >like to add a little REALITY TO YOU PRO CHOICERS, I am sure glad I
> >> >> >was not an abortion’ althought I have had my moments.
> >> >> >Yes My Mom was a young Mom and if she had a choice I think that I
> >> >> >would have no Grandkids,  or be babbleing on here.
> >> >> >     I too have an attitude, It is about the only thing in this
> >> >> >world that I really have control over.
> >> >> >Tiger– How well did you do with making ALL your own Choices,
> >> >> >Instead of doing
> >> >>what your were told to do? Not meant to be a shot
> >> >> >at you personally, but I am with the Right or Wrong crowd- No such
> >> >> >thing as grey.
> >> >> >   I do know that some people may have grown up believing that
> >> >>wrong
> >> >> >was right and right was wrong, but I Think that I pretty much knew
> >> >> >when I was stepping out of line and doing wrong.
> >> >> >It is (as most believe) My God , no not God, but My worldly given
> >> >> >Right- to do  wrong- It’s my life and if I want to screw it up then
> >> >> >stay out of my way. And you know what I had a lot of sooo called
> >> >> >friends that did just that WATCHED, AS i WAS Killing myself and
> >> >> >ruining a lot of lifes.
> >> >> >But O O O never no no no neverdare step on somebodys toes because
> >> >> >you know what they have a choice, Just like those poor little
> >> >>Crack
> >> >> >%$^&amp;%$ Women that degrade themselves( and me

> >> >>myself) due to
> >> >> >everybody. But Never No No Never dare tell somebody or force
> >> >>someone
> >> >> >to get some help that they may never ever make it to on their own,
> >> >> >due to something called “Pride” “Shame” “Guilt”
> >> >> >Whatever holds them back. They may end up DEAD and it  would be
> >> >>their
> >> >> >own fault, because you know how STRONG us druggies are, and if
> >> >>that
> >> >> >person dies because he had a choice to get help and refused or
> >> >>just
> >> >> >couldn’t make it on his/her own and needed YOU (of course they
> >> >> >didn’t tell you that).
> >> >> >I am sorry but I BELIEVE that if you Love Someone or even care a
> >> >> >little, and you see them walking off a cliff and YOU have an
> >> >> >opportunity to stop them, and you don’t- Can you truelly say it
> >> >>was
> >> >> >their own fault?
> >> >> >Pornography- I never met too many Normal people that would find it
> >> >> >neccesary to take their
> >> >>cloths off for the public to see. Totally
> >> >> >wrong  and if you had your own kids you might not think it too cool
> >> >> >having your buddy beating off while checking out your little girl.
> >> >> >Not nice eh Billy but P–sy T-ts are not meant for anyone except
> >> >>who
> >> >> >they belong to and their mate.
> >> >> >
> >> >> >Bye For Now, That stuff is about the biggest trigger going for any
> >> >> >downfall
> >> >> >
> >> >> >Bill
> >> >> >—-Original Message Follows—-
> >> >> >From: “Nick Sandberg”
> >> >> >Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
> >> >> >To:
> >> >> >Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Opiates
> >> >> >Date: Sun, 2 Apr 2006 10:24:07 +0100
> >> >> >MIME-Version: 1.0

> >> >>  >Received: from tomts21-srv.bellnexxia.net ([209.226.175.183]) by
> >> >> > bay0-pamc1-f11.bay0.hotmail.com with Microsoft
> >> >> >SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Sun, 2 Apr 2006 05:38:59
> >> >>-0700
> >> >> >Received: from toip5.bellnexxia.net ([ 209.226.175.88])          by
> >> >> >tomts21-srv.bellnexxia.net          (InterMail vM.5.01.06.13

> >> >> >201-253-122-130-113-20050324) with ESMTP          id
> >> >> >
> >> >> >          for ; Sun, 2 Apr 2006
> >> >>08:38:58

> >>  >> >-0400
> >> >> >Received: from tanelorn.mindvox.com (HELO mail.mindvox.com)
> >> >> >([64.124.179.118])  by toip5.bellnexxia.net with ESMTP; 02 Apr

> >> >>2006
> >> >> >08:38:58 -0400
> >> >> >Received: (qmail 16967 invoked by uid 513); 2 Apr 2006 08:38:55
> >> >> >-0400
> >> >> >Received: (qmail 16961 invoked by uid
> >> >>514); 2 Apr 2006 08:38:55
> >> >> >-0400
> >> >> >X-Message-Info: moY6YVwXQ44WAJnUvaOEtK2hXKGagKAsshDbZwj7pSc=
> >> >> >Mailing-List: contact ibogaine-help@mindvox.com ; run by ezmlm
> >> >> >Precedence: bulk
> >> >> >X-No-Archive: yes
> >> >> >List-Post:
> >> >> >List-Help:
> >> >>  >List-Unsubscribe:
> >> >> >List-Subscribe:
> >> >> >Delivered-To: mailing list ibogaine@mindvox.com
> >> >> >X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.3 required=4.0
> >> >> >X-Antivirus-MYDOMAIN-Mail-From: nick227@tiscali.co.uk via

> >> >> >tanelorn.mindvox.com
> >> >> >X-Antivirus-MYDOMAIN: 1.25-st-qms
> >> >> >(Clear:RC:0(212.74.114.37):SA:0(-2.3/4.0):. Processed in 2.781926
> >> >> >secs Process 16953)
> >> >> >X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true
> >> >> >X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result:
> >> >>AQAAAJ0kL0SDE4UI
> >> >> >X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.6604 (9.0.2911.0)
> >> >> >Return-Path:
> >> >>  >ibogaine-return-23233-billjohnson6= sympatico.ca@mindvox.com
> >> >> >X-OriginalArrivalTime: 02 Apr 2006 12:38:59.0373 (UTC)
> >> >> >FILETIME=[6A155DD0:01C65652]
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> >   —–Original Message—–
> >> >> >   From: Tiger Lisa [mailto: tigerlisa@gmail.com]
> >> >> >   Sent: 01 April 2006 13:44
> >> >> >   To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
> >> >> >   Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Opiates
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> >   Dear Nick,
> >> >> >   Here’ the part I don’t understand.
> >> >> >
> >> >> >   You wrote,
> >> >> >   Personally, my position is…I think rising awareness is GOOD.
> >>  >>I
> >> >> >would
> >> >> >love to see more people in groups, going through their stuff,
> >> >> >becoming more
> >> >> >aware of their
> >> >>personal interior dynamic, and moving forward in
> >> >> >life. But,
> >> >> >sadly, I’m not in a position to compel people to do this.
> >> >> >
> >> >> >   Why would you ever want to COMPEL anyone to do ANYTHING? Do you
> >> >> >really
> >> >> >believe that would be useful, effective, helpful? Do you think
> >> >> >people
> >> >> >actually benefit from, and grow from, being FORCED to do anything?
> >> >> >
> >> >> >   That is a parent-child model of interaction (and not a
> >> >> >particularly
> >> >> >skillful one, IMO),  and it’s going to reinforce childlike,
> >> >> >rebellious and
> >> >> >victim behavior (NOT self-awareness!) in the one so compelled, as
> >> >> >well as
> >> >> >reinforcing bullying behavior and disprespectful and righteous
> >> >> >attitudes
> >> >> >(NOT increased compassion or awareness) in the one doing the
> >> >> >compelling. A
> >> >> >”lose-lose” interaction–no one
> >> >>wins!
> >> >> >
> >> >> >   Myself, I believe CHOICE is the name of the game. With choice
> >> >> >comes
> >> >> >responsibility, self-responsibility and a loss of the victim
> >> >> >consciousness
> >> >> >that drives continued reactive and unconscious behavior.
> >> >> >
> >> >> >   So in  a nutshell: Saying something (like awarenss) is GOOD is
> >> >>one
> >> >> >thing,
> >> >> >but it’s a far cry from that to say,”And I’d love to FORCE you all
> >> >> >to be
> >> >> >more aware! too bad I can’t!” I think that is the essence of
> >> >>what
> >> >> >*I* am
> >> >> >having a problem with. Yes, awareness is good. I agree. Yes, I’d
> >> >> >love to
> >> >> >live in a more aware society, umm hmm. Then I read the next
> >> >>sentence
> >> >> >and I’m
> >> >> >brought up short.
> >> >> >
> >> >> >   We all need love, acceptance, compassion. Compassion is one of
> >> >> >the most
> >> >> >healing things
> >> >>going! Power and control, on the other hand, just  get
> >> >> >people’s backs up, thrust them into dysfunctional modes of
> >> >>thinking
> >> >> >and
> >> >> >perpetuate a lack of awareness all around.
> >> >> >
> >> >> >   Just my two cents,
> >> >> >   Tiger
> >> >> >
> >> >> >   PS I bet if you took a shot of heroin, you would experience
> >> >> >bliss! (not
> >> >> >that I’m suggesting you do) I believe it is just how human beings
> >> >> >are wired.
> >> >> >We’ve all got the same neurotransmitters, more or less.
> >> >> >
> >> >> >   Hi Tiger,
> >> >> >
> >> >> >   Well, I seem to recall, from the days when I used to go to
> >> >> >conferences and
> >> >>  >stuff, that studies have shown that only a small percentage of
> >> >> >school kids
> >> >> >who used heroin developed a habit. (Howard Parker in Sheffield, or
> >> >> >something
> >> >> >like that, about 1000 individuals
> >> >>studied). This is not quite the
> >> >> >same as
> >> >> >what you’re saying, I appreciate, but it shows that the drug of
> >> >> >itself is
> >> >> >not necessarily addicting. I don’t know if anyone knows what makes
> >> >>a
> >> >> >difference but I’d be willing to bet that, psychologically, it
> >> >> >relates
> >> >> >strongly to “ego orientation” vs “underlying levels of feeling.”
> >> >>If
> >> >> >you’ve
> >> >> >developed a self-image that requires you to repress more  feelings
> >> >> >than the
> >> >> >endogenous opiates in your body can do, then taking heroin is
> >> >>going
> >> >> >to make
> >> >> >you feel pretty good. I would personally say that this is very
> >> >> >likely one
> >> >> >psychological mechanism behind addiction. This would explain why
> >> >>so
> >> >> >many
> >> >> >addicts do come from relatively high trauma backgrounds. For, as
> >> >> >kids, we
> >> >> >learn that to “get things” and to “be popular” we need to
> >> >>be able to
> >> >> >keep
> >> >> >our feelings a bit under control, not just likely to collapse from
> >> >> >overfeeling at any time.
> >> >> >
> >> >> >   With bliss, (or anxiety for that matter),  these are
> >> >>experiential
> >> >> >things
> >> >> >and no neuroscientist can explain them beyond pointing a little at
> >> >> >things
> >> >> >that seem to be involved. What is clear is that the states are
> >> >> >relative to
> >> >> >one another. If you’re basically a happy person bliss is
> >> >>inevitably
> >> >> >less
> >> >> >attractive than if you’re an anxious person.
> >> >> >
> >> >> >   About awareness, yes, I would love to force everyone to be more
> >> >> >aware!
> >> >> >And, inevitably, it doesn’t really work like that! But that’s my
> >> >> >position
> >> >> >anyway. What to do? Yes, compassion is needed, sometimes a lot of
> >> >> >it. Also,
> >> >>  >all the power and control at times. I’m not so
> >> >>busy with how I think
> >> >> >society
> >> >> >should be, or trying to like Understand the world, I just put my
> >> >> >position
> >> >> >out really. About choice, well, it seems like a great thing, for
> >> >> >sure, but
> >> >> >to me it’s a little the same as trying to push compassion at the
> >> >> >expense of
> >> >> >power. In philosophy or spirituality or whatever, some people
> >> >> >believe that
> >> >> >free will exists, others that the universe is entirely
> >> >> >deterministic. Who
> >> >> >the fuck knows? Both are cool viewpoints, and I personally
> >> >>wouldn’t
> >> >> >just
> >> >> >want to just trapped in just one of  them.
> >> >> >
> >> >> >   Is it cool to allow someone you care about to carry on fucking
> >> >> >their life

> >> >> >up because you believe so much in their free will? Not for me! I
> >> >> >like to
> >> >> >have the guts to take a position. And, to be honest, it’s a little
> >> >>
> >> >> >bit what
> >> >> >I miss in this list, where half the time everyone seems to be
> >> >> >talking it up
> >> >> >all nice but actually underneath there are shed-loads of feelings.
> >> >>I
> >> >> >don’t
> >> >> >know if this says anything significant about ibogaine, or about
> >> >>the
> >> >> >people
> >> >> >who are attracted to administering it, or what. But I notice it.
> >> >>  >
> >> >> >   Nick
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> >/]=———————————————————————=[\
> >> >> >[%] Ibogaine List Commands:
> >> >> > http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
> >> >> >
> >> >> >\]=———————————————————————=[/
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >>
> >> >>  With MSN Spaces email straight to your blog. Upload jokes, photos
> >> >>and more. It’s free!
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>/]=———————————————————————=[\
> >> >>  [%] Ibogaine List  Commands:
> >> >> http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
> >> >>
> >> >>\]=———————————————————————=[/
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>/]=———————————————————————=[\
> >> >>[%] Ibogaine List Commands:
> >> >>http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
> >> >>
> >> >>\]=———————————————————————=[/
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > Be one of the first to try Windows Live Mail
> >> > /]=———————————————————————=[\
> >> > [%] Ibogaine List Commands:
> >> http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html
> >> > [%]
> >> > \]=———————————————————————=[/
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. PC-to-Phone calls for ridiculously low
> >> rates.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >   /]=———————————————————————=[\
> >> >  [%] Ibogaine List Commands:
> >> http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html
> >> > [%]
> >> >   \]=———————————————————————=[/
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>   /]=———————————————————————=[\
> >>  [%] Ibogaine List Commands:
> >> http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
> >>   \]=———————————————————————=[/
> >>
> >>
> >  Save time by starting a search from any Web page with the MSN Search
> > Toolbar-FREE!
> > /]=———————————————————————=[\
> >  [%] Ibogaine List Commands:
> > http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
> > \]=———————————————————————=[/
>
>
>
>
>   /]=———————————————————————=[\
>  [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
>   \]=———————————————————————=[/
>
>

See if you’ve won, play MSN Search and Win

/]=———————————————————————=[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%] \]=———————————————————————=[/

From: “Nick Sandberg” <nick227@tiscali.co.uk>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Nick
Date: April 6, 2006 at 12:47:16 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Alan,

Are you actually like capable of just talking with someone? I mean, my beliefs are my beliefs. What’s the big deal? I mean, I can’t explain why I believe this stream of thoughts becoming words are mine!  Yeah, for sure, I could just sit back and watch them and not type….the mind just finds something else to do. What does it matter? What I feel about discussing with you is that you want to suck me into your whole mind-trip, like it’s some private hole inside of you where you can win all the arguments and somehow gain what feels like power. This is what it feels like reading your posts. Maybe it’s not true at all but it feels like that. And for sure, it’s doesn’t really sound too attractive a prospect. Do you enjoy life, man? Or are you just busy trying to project your own stuff out so much you don’t wake up with just excitement in your heart? I’d really like to know. I mean, do you actually take all this stuff you write seriously? Really?

What I like about encounter is how ends up. I get to experience first hand, at the end of all the outpouring drama, all the screaming and shouting, just how close we all are to each other. When I put out all the negatives, all that’s left is love. And it’s not personal, it’s just everything’s cool and beautiful. It’s like validation. Hey, we really are all the same being!

Nick

From: Alan Hehe [mailto:a.h.veil68@hotmail.com] 
Sent: 05 April 2006 18:48
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] Nick

Nick–

Well, just as I expected, you can’t explain any of your beliefs or why you believe them, and you have made me regret saying I was sorry for being hard on it. I think YOU are the one with some serious emotional and mental problems, Nick…at least IMO. Saying you don’t feel like a “mindy discussion is just bullshit, a cop out, as is your statement about detachment. Just because it doesn’t work for you doesn’t mean it doesn’t work for anyone…But I guess you must be wiser than The Buddha, or Lao-tse too. I didn’t ask you to try to explain the nature of reality or the universe, Nick.
You are always complaining about people not listening and just reacting, and then when I politely ask you to explain your beliefs, like your one about encounter therapy, you don’t have shit to say, except to denounce other ideas as bullshit. I really don’t think you know what you think…I believe, IMO, that you are a very confused person. Well–let’s leave it at that. You had your chance, an actual request, to state what you think, and you just avoided it by denouncing other things…It’s easy to say someone or something is bullshit–it’s much harder to say positive things about what YOU think and believe. You’re just hopeless to me Nick, so please stop writing to me…I know you’ll want to respond to this, and I will read that, but whether you stop or not, I’m simply going to ignore your posts…at least until you have something real to say.
Alan.
Save time by starting a search from any Web page with the MSN Search Toolbar-FREE!
/]=———————————————————————=[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%] \]=———————————————————————=[/

From: “Nick Sandberg” <nick227@tiscali.co.uk>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] RE:anger
Date: April 6, 2006 at 12:17:32 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Preston,

Oh, I don’t know. Just don’t seem to get time. I pick them up from time to
time but can’t seem to manage more than a couple of pages. Where I live
there’s always 100 things going on, you have to fight for the right to read
and it doesn’t turn me on enough. I like to read novels on holiday though. I
last read a thriller called Private Dancer about bargirls in Bangkok. Great
book! Check it out if you see it around.

Nick

—–Original Message—–
From: Preston Peet [mailto:ptpeet@nyc.rr.com]
Sent: 05 April 2006 13:49
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] RE:anger

Books? Sorry, don’t read them.<

Why not Nick?
Oh and thanks for the link to some of your work- I’ll read it later today.

—–
“If God dropped acid, would he see people?”  ~Steven Wright

Peace, love and lotsof respect.
Preston Peet
ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor Underground- the Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations,
Astonishing Archaeology and Hidden History
Editor Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Columnist HighTimes mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —–
From: Nick Sandberg
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Wednesday, April 05, 2006 8:12 AM
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] RE:anger

Alan,

I was merely expressing where I am with things now. That’s my truth, man.
If
it doesn’t make sense to you, or whatever, I guess that’s how it is.

What do I believe? Oh God! Um, the computer monitor seems to be in front
of
me…because it just is, I can no longer be arsed with metaphysical stuff
about “is it inside of me or outside of me”, and The stream of thoughts
passing through becoming words in front of my eyes ARE mine! Again,
because
they just are. I have no way to prove either of these two positions so,
yes,
they are beliefs. Other than that, no so many beliefs oh and I like to
live
totally, without having to bother with all the interpretation, the endless
programming of the mind trying to understand itself. Yeah, totality is
cool,
and mindy discussions just turn me off these days.

Detachment? Detachment is pure bullshit. More sack-o-shit dualistic
spiritual manipulative twaddle, and occasionally needed. Life…it’s a
fucking mystery, there’s no possibility for the mind to understand fuck
all
of it, except by totally compromising yourself. And who wants to do that?
That’s where I am

Books? Sorry, don’t read them. Burning’s cool! (Just kidding)

Nick

—–Original Message—–
From: Alan Hehe [mailto:a.h.veil68@hotmail.com]
Sent: 05 April 2006 08:58
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] RE:anger

Nick, I don’t understand how meditating, or exploring different belief
systems, keeps one from confronting himself, or from avoiding feelings.
For
me, the only way that you can get in touch with how you truly feel and
think, is to stop talking to yourself (turn off the internal monologue),
let
your mind be quiet, and just watch your thoughts, from a detached point of
view..and eventually all the loud voices–which usually aren’t really you,
but all the crap we absorb from the endless streams of information,
disinformation, advertising, other peoples words, etc. When the mind
finally
quiets down, there’s a very soft voice, the voice of your higher self, and
all you have to do is pose a question in your mind, and you will know
immediately whether it’s a good thing for you or not. I do not repress my
feelings, either–you seem to be making contradictory statements…I
release
anger, in words, and then you say, “oh, he must have alot of repressed
anger
and emotions.”?  No, I don’t because by letting myself BE angry, I’ve let
it
out, not repressed it. When I’m sad, I cry….We’re all equipped with ways
of dealing with emotions…but sometimes, you need to reign in your
emotions
a little and use your MIND. Also, by your statements about “I used to
believe that, too, but now..” that you think you are above or beyond me.
Have you ever read any of Robert Anton Wilson’s non-fictional books, like
Prometheus Rising?  And I don’t think Freud or Jung were “cool”…I think
trying to be “cool” is being false to yourself…but at the same time,
it’s
a cruel world, and if you go around letting all your emotions wide out all
the time, you are going to eventually run into trouble. I don’t like your
inference of superiority, but then again I don’t truly care, either. We
must
all walk our own paths, and pride certainly does come before a fall.
Nevertheless, I am interested in what you REALLY think, besides the idea
that everyone pushes alot of feelings back, especially junkies. So now you
think Freud is cool….so you must believe in his OEdipal theories, then,
huh? Come on Nick, tell me what you really believe! And you really think
therapists are just trying to help us, even though a person is viewed as
“abnormal” if he’s too creative in his interpretation of those Rorsch Ink
Blots? Finally, sometimes we just have to–not neccesarily “repress” our
emotions, but certainly keep them under control…I use a punching bag to
help relieve my anger–because if I tore into everyone that pissed me off,
then I’d end up in some “anger management class”..and while you might
think
that’s good–or not–I don’t have the time for it. I am very emotionally
active….so what makes you superior to me, and can you write an e-mail
expressing what you believe, in many aspects, because I can’t get a grip
on
what you’re really driving at, Nick….Emotions are just one part of our
makeup, Nick..and sometimes, even confronting repressed feelings,
confronting the person who helped caused them doesn’t cure you…My mother
did alot of things that truly hurt me as a child…I’ve confronted my
anger
and sorrow over it, and I’ve confronted her about some of it. But I would
never tell her how truly deeply she hurt me, because I know she’s only
human
and all humans make mistakes, and I know she did her best. I simply love
her
too much to do that..and being able to do that, to not express your every
tear or fear..well, that’s called maturity, Nick. But I know myself. Know
thyself–Plato said that..very wise words. I’ll be looking for your
email–if you can do it–explaining your “comprehensive” world view…you
said I should listen instead of just reacting, so I’m ready when you are.
Over’n’out.

From: “Nick Sandberg” <nick227@tiscali.co.uk>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] RE:anger
Date: Tue, 4 Apr 2006 22:11:28 +0100

Hi Alan,

Fair enough! You seem like a forthright guy to me. I have done a lot of
things that you talk about also, and believed the same stuff too. We are
probably quite similar. I have also been “too clever” for the therapists
in
the past. I guess I thought it was like some game of cat and mouse and I
didn’t connect to the reality of someone who was actually trying to help
me.
I missed that bit because I figured I knew it all better. Life had to get
more desperate for me so that I could start to see that, for all my
cleverness, very few of my emotional needs were actually getting met, and
that in reality I needed help. Yeah, and I did the “teachings” scene too,
the week-long satsangs on Goa beaches and “enlightenment intensives” in
Poona. Thankfully all I got from that was that my only real responsibility
was to actually take on what I was carrying around, to stop avoiding
myself
in search of some teaching that underneath was allowing me to just
bullshit
my way out of feeling stuff. I couldn’t really give a toss about
philosophy
or spirituality these days (well, getting there slowly!) and am still kind
of grateful I was never deluded enough to try and become a Buddhist, which
is what happens to a lot of angry young guys who don’t want to feel
anymore.
Poor souls. Yeah, Freud always seemed grossly uncool to me and Jung the
opposite, nowadays it’s more the other way round. The world of concepts,
with its “ego” and all these things that had to be “overcome,” man what a
deranged trip that is. Just the same old parental conditioning coming back
round again, you gotta drop this you gotta overcome that. Poor old Carl,
trying to put everything into a map, with all those long, long books. I
would love to have put him into a Humaniversity AUM meditation and let him
experience the bliss beyond fear. So simple. But that’s just me. I guess
his
protege Wilhelm Reich still seems pretty cool to me. The Function of the
Orgasm is such a great name for a book. I would read it except I don’t
read
books! I was punk in London in the 80s too, getting wasted in the Fox and
Gossips, going to see the Ramones at the Academy, living in squats in
Camden
arguing with goths. And politics, and conspiracy theories. I’m still in
the
US who’s who for writing conspiracy theories. Yeah, maybe we’re the same
person!

Nick

—–Original Message—–
From: Alan Hehe [mailto:a.h.veil68@hotmail.com]
Sent: 04 April 2006 21:17
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] RE:anger

Nick-
Perhaps I have been a little hard on you…it is true that I came from
a
traumatic background…I grew up fighting, both with my fists and my mind.
But let me say this: I did not “scour” the internet looking for the info I
posted for you. Believe it or not, it was the second site I came to. I
agree
with some of your theories, but I don’t agree with the way in which you
choose to deal with them.
As far as being a psychonaut, I have travelled–on mushroom, L>S>D and
Dextromethorphan to places you wouldn’t believe. I also do alot of
meditating…I’ve always had a deep interest in Eastern philosophies,
especially Zen and Tibetan Buddhism. And what I find is that Jesus, Lao-
tse,
Buddha, Mohammad, and many other spiritual teachers preach basically the
same thing: love all (including animals..which we are at our most basic
level), do not get attached to material things, that death is just a
passge
to another state (although here the different religions begin to show
their
differences more..at least APPARENTLY) and to avoid the ego-trap. I try to
live by these teachings, but often fail.
As far as the whole “treatment” aspect of addiction goes, I believe
some people need it and some people don’t. For me, it doesn’t work…in
fact, when I was a teen I attempted suicide and for a time I was seeing a
psychologist…but he got no-where with me, and this is what he said, in
so
many words: that I was too intelligent, too knowledgeable about psychology
for him to treat me. I knew all the tricks…I knew what he wanted to hear
and what would cause him to make notes in his little book. I already knew
basically how a “normal person” is supposed to interpret those Rorsch Ink
Blots. I also think alot of psychology is just alot of hogwash!  I do like
some of Jung’s work, especially his research on archetypes and the
collective unconsciousness and such…but his predecessor, his teacher? He
(Freud) was one of the most psychologically disturbed people to ever foul
our minds!
Yes, I do react, perhaps a little too seriously…and it’s not really
that my beliefs are being threatened…I don’t actually have that many
beliefs, but the few I have I do feel strongly about. So…I’m sorry for
being so tough on you. Please don’t make me regret saying that…no-one is
always right, Nick, or rarely ever entirely right–including me. I know
alot
of people who, when they read the part about me having a high I.Q., or
being
intelligent, will think: He can’t be that smart if he tried to kill
himself!
And they will be both right…and wrong. People in the West usually think
something has to be either yes or no, right or wrong, on or off. And
mostly
that is the case–but not always. Eastern philosophy allows for a middle
point, and understands how negatives and positives define each
other….Being intelligent, you learn alot of things about the world that
are not nice at all…you can’t have the “bliss” of ignorance, like
some…You know that eating animals, unless that’s all there is, and then
you thank the animal for giving ITS life so YOU could live, is usually
wrong…I still have relapses…I haven’t always been a vegetarian. I also
believe strongly in moderation. When you’re intelligent enough, you see
through the lies of the Govt! You can’t lose yourself in silly T.V
shows…you see ALL…and despite all the natural beauty, and the fact
that
the universe if filled with an energy that radiates love, you also see the
cruelty and stupidity of your fellow man…yet still try to love him.
Well, that’s it. I don’t want to be accussed of writing too long of an
e-mail again. But if “mind-y” means intelligent, than I plead guilty. But
I
assure you I am not a nerd. I’m outgowing, used to be pretty good with the
ladies (till I made a commitment to one), can fight like a tiger, and love
old Punk rock! So don’t try to pigenhole me!

From:  “Nick Sandberg” <nick227@tiscali.co.uk>
Reply-To:  ibogaine@mindvox.com
To:  <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Subject:  RE: [Ibogaine] Pot calling the Kettle Black?
Date:  Tue, 4 Apr 2006 12:45:47 +0100

—–Original Message—–
From: Preston Peet [mailto:ptpeet@nyc.rr.com]
Sent: 04 April 2006 12:20
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Pot calling the Kettle Black?

But, working around addicts, what I see time and again is that they
are
either from high trauma backgrounds or are just acutely
sensitive, ie have
trouble repressing feelings. To me there’s a pretty clear
relationship
between tendencies to opiate usage and the body’s ability to repress
feeling.<

And if this is the case Nick, why out of curiosity is this
necessarily a bad
thing? Or is it? Or are there gray areas here in your view?

Hi Preston,

For sure there are grey areas. It’s just a tendency I notice in people
using
opiates. A lot either seem to be hypersensitive or coming from a fairly
traumatic background. Both suggest to me they have a problem repressing
feelings. It’s not a bad thing at all. It’s just an observation. We’re
all
just people at the end of the day.

Nick

—–
“If God dropped acid, would he see people?”  ~Steven Wright

Peace, love and lotsof respect.
Preston Peet
ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor Underground- the Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations,
Astonishing Archaeology and Hidden History
Editor Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Columnist HighTimes mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —–
From: Nick Sandberg
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Tuesday, April 04, 2006 5:01 AM
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Pot calling the Kettle Black?

Alan,

To be honest, I find you wrapped up so tight I am a bit scared to even
communicate with you. I don’t know where things will go for you. I
mean,
just the suggestion that you are using opiates to hold down feelings
and
you’re at like defcon2 or something. Why not just check out why
what I write
brings up so much feeling in you? You think anger is created by events
external to yourself? It can be triggered, for sure. But you
gotta own your
part of it. For me, you have every trait of someone who is very
strongly in
denial. You create some whole drama out of a few comments I make about
opiates, feelings and bliss and seem convinced that you only use them
to
give you bliss or something. I’m just pushing out a little energy in
the
other direction. That’s all. Why do you seem to regard this as
some form of
abuse? I find you wrapped up tight, guy, really.

I make a comment – “If you experience bliss from an analgesic it
is because
your body is struggling to hold down a lot of feelings your ego
has decided
it doesn’t want to have” and you create from it “only emotionally
repressed
individuals receive any sort of high from opiates.” To me that’s
exaggeration. Ok, maybe not so much but it’s there. You also try
and justify
your own position by apparently scouring the net for some
neurochemical
stuff that says it isn’t so. I mean, to me that’s just a total defense
reaction. I am not trying to create some big picture of how
things are, some
all-encompassing truth about addiction, my experience is that no
such thing
exists. I’m just pushing out a bit of energy. Yeah, maybe
neurochemists have
discovered how opiates work. Maybe. If so, it’s great. And I’m
happy to take
this new perspective in. And I’m happy to apologize if it’s upset you
so
much. But, working around addicts, what I see time and again is that
they
are either from high trauma backgrounds or are just acutely sensitive,
ie
have trouble repressing feelings. To me there’s a pretty clear
relationship
between tendencies to opiate usage and the body’s ability to repress
feeling.

Now you’re going to take ibogaine, which you seem to feel is holding
out
some kind of “cure” for your drug usage. Or maybe I’m reading you
wrong. I
certainly hope it’s good for you, man. And I don’t know what
iboga will do
for you personally, but what I do know is that it helps if you
are open to
honest self evaluation – that you can allow yourself to travel the
many
corridors of the psyche, especially the ones where ordinarily it
looks a bit
scary. Plenty of people have taken the drug, seen some God or other,
been
drug free for a few weeks or months, all totally valuable
experiences, and
then found themselves back using pretty soon. And a lot of people are
attracted to ibogaine because they think it’s some kind of treatment
that
avoids formal rehab, avoids them having to be open and show their
feelings
in front of others. My experience is that it doesn’t really work
like that.

All in all, I’d like to be a friend to you. My intention is not
bad. I just
like to feel a bit of emotional reality in people so I put energy out
and
see how it goes. Helps me feel connected to people, coz otherwise
it’s just
the mind putting out what it thinks you want to hear and I don’t
find that
so satisfying really. Just another game.

Nick

—–Original Message—–
From: Alan Hehe [mailto:a.h.veil68@hotmail.com]
Sent: 04 April 2006 04:34
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Pot calling the Kettle Black?

Nick…you are soooo full of shit. That’s exactly what you said, and
you’re lucky I don’t have the e-mail anymore or I’d shove it down your
lying, cyber throat!!!!!
Come on..Preston, someone…does anyone have that email, the
one where
I posted the medical info I think might have his actual statement
on it….I
would appreciate if someone could send it back to me. Almost word
for word
what you said was (grammatical errors included) “Opiate is an
analgesic. It
stops feeling. Only someone with alot of repressed emotions receive
bliss
from analgesics, like opiates….” (you also said something about
ego-orientation)…then you said “if you can think of another reason
I’d
love to hear it.”  Now I’m positive that I want nothing more to do
with
you…so let sleeping dogs lie, or I swear I will rip you
apart…and that
way, you won’t have to “be manipulated anymore!” You dug your own
grave with
a drstically stupid statement, and you’re too full of yourself to just
say…”hey, I was wrong”. Now, for the second time, BYE!!!!!

From: “Nick Sandberg” <nick227@tiscali.co.uk>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Pot calling the Kettle Black?
Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2006 08:53:07 +0100

—–Original Message—–
From: Alan Hehe [mailto:a.h.veil68@hotmail.com]
Sent: 02 April 2006 17:32
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] Pot calling the Kettle Black?

Hey…uh, Biscuit Boy,
What’s the matter? Do you NOT like my debate with Nick, or do
you just
not like the fact that Ann paid me a compliment? Do you agree with
Nick’s
idea that only emotionally repressed individuals receive any sort of
high
from opiates? If you’ve got something to say, why not come out
and say it?
Have you never done opiates? Or any drugs? What gives you the
right to judge
Ann? Personally I don’t care if her comment was influened by a
whole gram of
Mexican brown! Better a nice compliment from someone high, than a
nasty one
from someone sober! Now, if I’ve misconstrued your intent, I
apologize, but
I would appreciate a logical explanation rather than a low-blow
insinuation.

Hi Alan,
only emotionally repressed individuals receive any sort of high from
opiates – I did not make such an extreme statement. I said there was a
relationship between the two, that the bliss experienced on
opiates relates
to the degree of ego-repressed feeling. You grab stuff,
exaggerate it to an
extreme position and then criticize your own interpretation.
Welcome to the
wonderful world of manipulation! I see a great career in media or
politics
opening up before you.
BTW, this IS the classic trait for someone who is using belief
patterns to
hold down feelings. If something challenges the belief then repressed
feelings start to rise “OMG, what if I’m really like so!” or whatever
and
the mind acts to push the feelings back down again, rearranging
what is said
into something it can criticize and expel. Frankly, I also see
myself doing
it at times! Letting go of beliefs can be a toughie.
Nick

From:  biscuitboy714@aol.com
Reply-To:  ibogaine@mindvox.com
To:  ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject:  Re: [Ibogaine] Opiate effects
Date:  Sun, 02 Apr 2006 11:05:09 -0400
Yea Ann, tell us how much heroin you shot last night. He He I
couldn’t help it. I love you Mamma           Randy

—–Original Message—–
From: Alan Hehe <a.h.veil68@hotmail.com>
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Sat, 01 Apr 2006 11:15:03 -0500
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Opiate effects

Hey Ann,

Thank you for the compliment…Somebody’s got to try to counter
his crazy ideas with some sense. Feel free to write me anytime..I
really enjoy talking to people on this list and hearing their
stories…Oh, don’t tell anyone, but I studied semantics and debate
in high school! Just kidding…about the hush hush, as anyone will
be able to read this. Oh, heck–LOL! I’m 37, and High school is but
a distant, mainly unplesant experience…except when I would catch
my English teacher making grammatical or syntactical mistakes,
before they moved me into an A.P. college-level class…And no, I’m
not conceited, either..but I do enjoy debate! Everyone has certain
qualities at which they excel, and others at which they are
deficient. I make up for my skill in English by being a retard in
math! Plus, I couldn’t be that smart or I wouldn’t be here, looking
for a way out of the hell-hole I dug for myself….and despite
having a really shitty childhood, I take complete responsibility for
my current position in
life……………………………….Wishing you the best in
all…….Alan.

——–
From: “Ann B. Mullikin” <think@francomm.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Opiate effects
Date: Sat, 1 Apr 2006 10:04:20 -0500

No, I am not Nick but…..

Bravo, Alan.  I surely do appreciate the way you use your brain –
TO THINK AND TO REASON.  Its good stuff.  Keep on.

ann
think@francomm.com

—– Original Message —–
From: Alan Hehe
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Friday, March 31, 2006 4:49 PM
Subject: [Ibogaine] Opiate effects

Hey Nick,

I wanted to say that, although I was basically right, I believe
(and according to the research I’ve done) about the reason opiates
cause pleasure, I wasn’t entirely correct about the natural opiates
(dopamine,etc) having an effect on mood. They do have an affect on
mood..but then again, so does euphoria..in fact, it could be said to
be a mood unto itself. Here’s a little medical info for: Opiates
(heroin, morphine, etc.)

The human body naturally produces its own opiate-like substances
and uses them as neurotransmitters. These substances include
endorphins, enkephalins, and dynorphin, often collectively known as
endogenous opioids. Endogenous opioids modulate our reactions to
painful stimuli. They also regulate vital functions such as hunger
and thirst and are involved in mood control, immune response, and
other processes.

The reason that opiates such as heroin and morphine affect us so
powerfully is that these exogenous substances bind to the same
receptors as our endogenous opioids. There are three kinds of
receptors widely distributed throughout the brain: mu, delta, and
kappa receptors.

These receptors, through second messengers, influence the likelihood
that ion channels will open, which in certain cases reduces the
excitability of neurons. This reduced excitability is the likely
source of the euphoric effect of opiates and appears to be mediated
by the mu and delta receptors.

This euphoric effect also appears to involve another mechanism in
which the GABA-inhibitory interneurons of the ventral tegmental area
come into play. By attaching to their mu receptors, exogenous
opioids reduce the amount of GABA released (see animation).
Normally, GABA reduces the amount of dopamine released in the
nucleus accumbens. By inhibiting this inhibitor, the opiates
ultimately increase the amount of dopamine produced and the amount
of pleasure felt.

Chronic consumption of opiates inhibits the production of cAMP, but
this inhibition is offset in the long run by other cAMP production
mechanisms. When no opiates are available, this increased cAMP
production capacity comes to the fore and results in neural
hyperactivity and the sensation of craving the drug.

——–
Make FREE PC-to-PC calls with MSN Messenger. Get it now!
/]=——————————————————————
—=
[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands:
http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=——————————————————————
—=
[/

——–
Find just what you’re after with the new, more precise MSN Search
– try it now!
/]=——————————————————————
—=
[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands:
http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=——————————————————————
—=
[/

/]=————————————————————–
——-=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands:
http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]

\]=————————————————————–
——-=[/

Be one of the first to try Windows Live Mail
/]=—————————————————————
——=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands:
http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html
[%]
\]=—————————————————————
——=[/

Play Trivia with MSN Messenger for a chance to win an XBOXT 360
prize pack!
/]=—————————————————————
——=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands:
http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html
[%]
\]=—————————————————————
——=[/

/]=—————————————————————
——=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands:
http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]

\]=—————————————————————
——=[/

/]=———————————————————————
=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands:
http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html
[%]

\]=———————————————————————
=[/

See if you’ve won, play MSN Search and Win
/]=———————————————————————
=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html
[%]
\]=———————————————————————
=[/

Get turn-by-turn driving directions you can really use – Windows Live
Local
is here!
/]=———————————————————————
=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html
[%]
\]=———————————————————————
=[/

/]=———————————————————————
=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html
[%]
\]=———————————————————————
=[/

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: “Nick Sandberg” <nick227@tiscali.co.uk>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] OT! Eating cattle or food
Date: April 6, 2006 at 12:11:23 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Alan,

Personally, I don’t think you give a shit about animals. Seems to me like it’s just a lever you use to condemn people. You’re riddled with trips you can’t own yet and so you just project them randomly on people by starting little arguments everywhere, giving you the opportunity to lay in to them with a bit of condemnation. Well, that’s not so bad but I don’t feel anything in you like you give a shit. It’s just like a giant mind firing off into space. Can’t go anywhere, man.

Nick

From: Alan Hehe [mailto:a.h.veil68@hotmail.com] 
Sent: 06 April 2006 00:00
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] OT! Eating cattle or food

Jon–
I hope you are kidding about brocolli feeling pain. That must be put there for a laugh.
This will probably be my last post, so I will say this: From debating in high school and different forums, and just from alot of research, I’ve learned one thing beyond any doubt: Anyone can make an argument, for or against, any idea, belief, or position–often using the same data. If you believe eating meat is okay, you will tend to gather evidence to support your belief, and exclude evidence that negates it. If you believe eating meat is wrong, the same is true. It’s not so much that I believe eating meat itself is wrong, it’s more that I feel we’re holding ourselves back from evolving spiritually and emotionally, from finding peace, by the way we treat our “food”–which is living, breathing, caring animals who are put to death and kept in the most inhumane fashions possible, all because we believe we are better than them, and since they are “only food”, it doesn’t matter how they are treated. But if you lock a cute little dog in a hot car for half a day, you can go to jail for that. We only want to save the cute animals. But we think nothin of the bull who gets his balls cut off with a knife without a drop of painkiller…and we’re egotistic enough to say..”ahh, he doesn’t feel anything.” But yet people like Bill are sure like a foetus, even though it’s C.N.S. isn’t even developed, the nerve endings aren’t formed yet, it must be going through agony.
So, you can make an argument for just about anything…but you have to live with the consequences if you turn out to be wrong.

From:  jon@mindvox.com
Reply-To:  ibogaine@mindvox.com
To:  ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject:  Re: [Ibogaine] OT! Eating cattle or food
Date:  Wed, 5 Apr 2006 16:05:29 -0400 (EDT)
>
>Well, ok… I’ll go through this point by point…
>
>Not all plants feel pain, but some do… e.g., broccoli. Likewise, while
>most animals do feel pain, not all do.. e.g. assorted types of shellfish.
>Again, the line between plant and animal is not as clear cut as people
>make it out to be.
>
>As for the heart attacks, it is true that meat-eaters are more likely to
>suffer from that, as well as from assorted food poisonings and infections
>transmitted by tainted meat. But non-meat-eaters are more likely to suffer
>from depression, anemia, and assorted other ailments. So, it’s a trade
>off.
>
>Your argument about our digestive system is completely off base. It’s
>actually easier for humans (and other primates) to digest meat than to
>digest plant matter. The main reason is that plant cells have tough cell
>walls, while animal cells do not. Our digestive system is not set up to
>get optimal nutrition from plants; for that we would need a digestive
>system more similar to a cow (i.e., multiple stomachs, cud-chewing, longer
>intenstines, etc.) This is why, for example, when you eat corn it comes
>out whole at the other end. Humans are not especially good at digesting
>most plant matter.
>
>Based purely on our biology, humans are set up to be omnivores.  This is
>because our digestive system has characterstics of both carnivores (e.g. a
>single stomach and canines) and herbivores (e.g. molars). The length of
>our digestive system is much shorter than that of pure herbivores, but
>longer than that of pure carnivores. Optimal human nutrition is best
>acheived by eating a balanced diet of animals and plants.
>
>I do conceed that the way industrialised nations go about farming meat is
>pretty brutal. But then, so is the way industrialised nations go about
>farming plants as well.
>
>And so is the way industrialised nations do most things, for that matter..
>
>
> >   Hey–
> >    Just wanted to say that, asides from clams or mussells maybe, plants do
> > not have a C>N>S and do not experience pain like animals, who have pain
> > receptors just like we do. Also, there are other reasons for not eating
> > meat: like health reasons…Meat eaters have about a 35-40% chance of
> > dying from a heart attack do their diet, while vegetarians only have
> > about 5% chance. That’s quite a difference.
> >      Furthermore–yes, plants are alive! That’s the whole idea! You only
> > obtain true life energy from living things! The meat you eat has been
> > dead for God only knows how long, has very little nutritional value.
> > Also, because we have a digestive track that’s over 20 feet long,
> > alot of the meat you eat rots in your intestines, releasing all kinds
> > of nasty toxins. In addition, when animals are slaughtered in the
> > mass murder method we use, they’re not so stupid that they don’t know
> > what’s going on…Animals (just like the animal called a dog) are
> > very keen at sensing fear, not just within us, but within their own
> > ranks. As they approach their death, they are terrified, and release
> > a multitude of chemicals into their bloodstreams, which, when we eat,
> > have an effect on us…mainly anger and fear, which are closely
> > linked.
> >     Well, I have to go…You have the choice to eat whatever you want..I
> > used to eat meat, and still do occasionally…but I swear to you that
> > I feel a hundred times lighter since I started eating less meat, and
> > alot more full of life. And if you don’t think I know what I’m talking
> > about, here a guy that was kinda smart, and his take on vegetarianism
> > vs. eating meat:
> > “Nothing will benefit health and increase the chances of survival of life
> > on Earth as the evoloution to a vegetarian diet..”—Albert Einstein.
> >
> >      From:  jon@mindvox.com
> > Reply-To:  ibogaine@mindvox.com
> > To:  ibogaine@mindvox.com
> > Subject:  Re: [Ibogaine] OT! Eating cattle or food
> > Date:  Wed, 5 Apr 2006 14:24:56 -0400 (EDT)
> >>potatoes have eyes too =P
> >>
> >>i remember this punk song about how silly it is that vegetarians, for
> >>example, don’t eat clams… because clams have essentially the same kind
> >>of nervous system as broccoli and cauliflower…
> >>
> >>the line between plant and animal is not an entirely clear one.. and the
> >>decision to eat plants but not animals seems to me a pretty arbitrary
> >> one.
> >>plants are living, breathing, and to some degree, thinking creatures as
> >>well. but they get no love from PETA…
> >>
> >>i guess my basic point is.. eat whatever you’re  comfortable with. but
> >>realise that whatever you eat, ANYTHING you eat, inflicts suffering on
> >>some creature.
> >>
> >>such is the nature of life.
> >>
> >>
> >>ahaha… speaking of PETA, i saw the best bumper sticker a couple weeks
> >>ago….eheh… it said:
> >>
> >>”PETA – People Eating Tasty Animals”
> >>
> >>=)
> >>
> >>oh, and one more thing… as for the whole pet vs. food argument… i
> >> know
> >>for a fact that if my cat ever got the chance, he would totally eat me.
> >> so
> >>i don’t wanna hear it.. =P
> >>
> >>
> >> > for me eating meat in a society where it’s unnecessary merely promotes
> >> the
> >> > fear/bloodthirsty addiction so prevalent in the Western world. I can
> >> see
> >> > eating meat in a society where there are no alternatives, but where I
> >> live
> >> > it’s easy to not eat meat, and I’m  glad.
> >> > I still do dairy and eggs, but can’t eat anything that might lick it’s
> >> > fellow beings, or nuzzle them, or communicate in any way, shape or
> >> form
> >> > with
> >> > one another, even chickens (which I’ve been told are ok to eat because
> >> > “they’re stupid.” If that were the only criteria for being ok to eat,
> >> I’d
> >> > be
> >> > a cannibal). Again, this is only my own viewpoint, but there seems to
> >> be
> >> > something unenlightened, to me, how some folk can have “pets” but call
> >> > cattle mere “food,” making no connection to the living, breathing,
> >> > thinking
> >> > creatures sharing the planet with us.
> >> >
> >> > Butt, and it’s a great big butt, I can’t really fault anyone for their
> >> > eating habits beyond stating how I personally feel, particularly about
> >> >  factory farming, inhumane treatment of our “food” and the wonton
> >> slaughter
> >> > of living creatures when it isn’t necessary for our survival, only to
> >> feed
> >> > our addiction to blood and flesh these days (Of course one couuld take
> >> > this
> >> > to extreme and tell me plants are also living, but I limit my empathy
> >> and
> >> > eating ban to beings with eys I guess).
> >> >     That’s because I’m…pro-choice at heart.
> >> >
> >> > —–
> >> > “If God dropped acid, would he see people?”  ~Steven Wright
> >> >
> >> > Peace, love and lotsof respect.
> >> > Preston Peet
> >> > ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
> >> > Editor Underground- the Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations,
> >> > Astonishing Archaeology and Hidden History
> >> > Editor Under the Influence- the  Disinformation Guide to Drugs
> >> > Editor http://www.drugwar.com
> >> > Columnist HighTimes mag/.com
> >> > Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
> >> > Columnist New York Waste
> >> > Etc.
> >> >
> >> > —– Original Message —–
> >> > From: Crooked Eye
> >> > To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
> >> > Sent: Tuesday, April 04, 2006 3:53 AM
> >> > Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Whats a Republican?
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > Cow’s are tasty…  If we aren’t supposed to eat animals, then why are
> >> > they
> >> > made out of meat?  😀  I fail how to see eating cows equates to
> >> racism…
> >> > I
> >> > eat a lot of cows, but I have a mixed family…  If it makes you feel
> >> any
> >> > better we eat a lot of chickens, too..  I love turkey, the  tryptophan
> >> > makes
> >> > me sleepy…
> >> >
> >> > Alan Hehe  wrote:
> >> >    Don’t call me Baby…well, you can…since you’re not close enough
> >> for
> >> > me
> >> > to do anything about it! Plus, that’s a freedom, too…Just like my
> >> > ability
> >> > to talk about pro-choice. As for your information, no, I don’t think
> >> the
> >> > way
> >> > the abortion system is set up–but I absolutely believe in having the
> >> > right…And no, you don’t have 9 months to decide whether to have the
> >> rug
> >> > rat or not–there is a cut-off, a limit to when abortions can be
> >> > performed.
> >> >      And so you think, because cows aren’t pets, or aren’t ‘cute’,
> >> then
> >> > it’s
> >> > okay to torture them?  And to cut the balls of bulls off without any
> >> > anesthetic? To make chickens live in a cage so small they can barely
> >> turn
> >> > around? And George Bush–wanting to save lives! LOL! That’s the
> >> biggest
> >> > joke
> >> > I’ve ever heard! But it figures; you’re not special..alot of the
> >> people in
> >> > this country are brain-washed by the constant disinformation they are
> >> > fed….Why do you think there are a hundred commercials warning of the
> >> > dangers of marijuana, one of the least harmful drugs known to man, but
> >> yet
> >> > maybe one out of those hundred about the truly dangerous drugs, like H
> >> or
> >> > Coke?
> >> >        And you don’t have to be a hindu to have compassion for animals
> >> > other
> >> > than cats and dogs, you dumb-ass red-neck! In some places  they eat
> >> > dogs…would that be okay if they ate your dog? You know, I’m totally
> >> > wasting my time talking to you, I can already tell that you are way
> >> > undereducated, extremely prejudiced. Cows are just food. Are blacks
> >> just
> >> > niggers, too? God, I can’t stand fuckin’ red-necks like you,
> >> especially
> >> > the
> >> > ones that actually think they’re smart. Once you start doing away with
> >> > freedoms, it’s all down-hill. Who’s going to decide what’s right and
> >> > wrong?
> >> > You?! I would happily put a hollow-point 45 shell into my head if that
> >> > possibility existed..of course G.W.B. is quite the redneck himself,
> >> which
> >> > is
> >> > why you probably like him. First of all, HE’s not fighting for
> >> anything. I
> >> > have respect for the soldiers; they don’t decide the mission,  they
> >> just do
> >> > what they’re told. And how many babies do you think die while we were
> >> > waging
> >> > a war we were totally lied to about? Or is that okay? You think the
> >> babies
> >> > over there even know what a terrorist is? This world is already
> >> > over-populated..if people like you ran things, the world would run out
> >> of
> >> > resources within a decade! The oh so precious children! Everyone
> >> starts
> >> > out
> >> > as a child..some people, like you, remain one, in their minds, their
> >> whole
> >> > life. But those sweet children often grow up to be killers and
> >> rapists,
> >> > and
> >> > often for no apparent reason!  Strong belief does only one thing:
> >> close
> >> > your
> >> > mind. Boy, that ibogaine is gonna have fun with you!!!!! Cows are just
> >> > food!
> >> > Well, we’re  just food, too…if a grizzly decides you look good! God,
> >> what
> >> > egotism!  You claim to be a Christian (I do not) but you must have
> >> misssed
> >> > the part about not judging lest you be judged yourself…And I bet
> >> ibo’s
> >> > gonna drive that one home with a psychoactive sledgehammer! You’ve got
> >> > your
> >> > response, but I really no longer wish to talk with you. I’ve spent too
> >> > much
> >> > time arguing with all the fascists on this list, instead of hanging
> >> out
> >> > with
> >> > the cool, in the know ,people: by that meaning knowing that the whole
> >> > Govt.
> >> > is totally corrupt, actually controlled by a few wealthy and extremely
> >> > powerful people, and they constantly just feed us disinformation,
> >> while
> >> > manipulating the world through economic control, etc, and alot  of
> >> other
> >> > things you wouldn’t understand. BYE< NOW, Billy BOY. Go get a burger!
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > From:  “Billy J”
> >> > Reply-To:  ibogaine@mindvox.com
> >> > To:  ibogaine@mindvox.com
> >> > Subject:  RE: [Ibogaine] Whats a Republican?
> >> > Date:  Tue, 04 Apr 2006 02:19:25 -0400
> >> >>Hear this peace and take it to your Heart FRIEND.
> >> >>1st if we go back to Killing kids for the sins of their fathers
> >> >>(Child of a Rapist) Do you think that is more civilized then Raising
> >> >>Cattle for food,(Cattle are food “not Pets”) although you may be
> >> >>from India or somewhere that they worship your cows and even there
> >> >>fecal matter I hear!  Now if your are at that junkger(Place) then I
> >> >>will have to say -well Al, Bless you, but when was the last time you
> >> >>had your precious cow go to war for YOUR FREEDOMS that I am sure you
> >> >>are enjoying- Yes?
> >> >>   Allan , do you really love cows (the 4 legged ones that is) or
> >> >>are you in your 2nd or 3rd reincarnation and you where once a cow
> >> >>and you have come into this wierd mooing stage and you just could
> >> >>not figure it out.
> >> >>  Ok That is sarcasm – Sorry< I’ll get serious.
> >> >>Oh Ya Your aborting a fetus-, and yes I know that in the USof A
> >> >>being the most civilized Nation that has usually voted anti-
> >> >>Christian ( just in case somebody didn’t let Everybody do what FEELs
> >> >>GOOD)
> >>  >>Ya you can Have sex with anybody you want and then if a girl gets
> >> >>pregnant, or do you call it fetus something, oh well  so shes
> >> >>pregnant you have 9 months to decide whether or not you what the
> >> >>little BLOB Because your fetus can be kicking up a storm and as long
> >> >>as you can keep its stupid( oh it,s brain isn’t functioning yet
> >> >>,right) well as long as you can keep its head inside the grown up
> >> >>fetus ( that would be the female, The pregnant one, knocked up one ,
> >> >>dumb one what ever you would call someone like that ( Maybe MOM)
> >> >>well just reach in and CRUSH ITS SCULL and or STICK A SYRINGE INTO
> >> >>THe Back of it HEAD JUST UNTIL ITS STOPS PUTTINGN UP A FIGHT, AND
> >> >>they do fight Allan, just go and ask your abortion doctor.–  PARTIAL
> >> >>BIRTH ABORTION– VERY NICE–
> >> >>  oH YA AND YOU KNOW WHAT ALLY BABY THAT STUPID WAR MOGER THAT YOU
> >> >>HAVE AS A PRESIDENT WOULD LIKE NOTHING MORE THAN TO SAVE PEOPLE BUT
> >> >>ALL YOU PEOPLE THAT GOD GAVE YOU FREE CHOICE HAVE DECIDED TO VOTE
> >> >>FOR THE REAL KILLERS-
> >> >>   Have you any clue how many of your fetuses are done away with
> >> >>each year in the USA alone,, Allan Baby– way way more in 1 year
> >> >>than have been killed in ALL the World wars— How many do you think
> >> >>are rape and how many are just another form of birth control,, Your
> >> >>Planned Parenthood is a multi-Billion dollar industry that fights
> >> >>for you to have the freedom to get rid of your Babies- But They do
> >> >>not do it for free– They  are rich.One more thing if we can justify
> >> >>killing because you THINK they don’t feel pain- Why not line up all
> >> >>us addicts right after a good whack and while we are feeling no pain
> >> >>BANG-
> >> >>Save a lot of tax dollars- The Meth Clinics would be Pissed though.
> >> >>
> >> >>Love Ya!
> >> >>
> >> >>Just Don’t say it is OK To Kill My Children- Or Yours
> >> >>
> >> >>B
> >> >>
> >> >>—-Original Message Follows—-
> >> >>From: “Alan Hehe”
> >> >>Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
> >> >>To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
> >> >>Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] RE: [Pornography,psychology,Choice,force,) 2
> >> >>cents
> >> >>Date: Tue, 04 Apr 2006 01:25:21 -0400
> >> >>MIME-Version:  1.0
> >> >>Received: from tomts30-srv.bellnexxia.net ([209.226.175.104]) by
> >> >>bay0-pamc1-f3.bay0.hotmail.com with Microsoft
> >> >>SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Mon, 3 Apr 2006 22:27:22 -0700
> >> >>Received: from toip4.bellnexxia.net ([209.226.175.87])          by
> >> >>tomts30-srv.bellnexxia.net          (InterMail vM.5.01.06.13
> >> >>201-253-122-130-113-20050324) with ESMTP          id
> >> >>
> >> >>          for ; Tue, 4 Apr 2006 01:27:21
> >> >>-0400
> >> >>Received: from  tanelorn.mindvox.com (HELO mail.mindvox.com)
> >> >>([64.124.179.118])  by toip4.bellnexxia.net with ESMTP; 04 Apr 2006
> >> >>01:27:16 -0400
> >> >>Received: (qmail 1073 invoked by uid 513); 4 Apr 2006 01:27:15 -0400
> >> >>Received: (qmail 1067 invoked by uid 514); 4 Apr 2006 01:27:15 -0400
> >> >>X-Message-Info: moY6YVwXQ46hfM+PXD+r03SFMVOY3E1daJYU/Sm1Nkw=
> >> >>Mailing-List: contact ibogaine-help@mindvox.com; run by ezmlm
> >> >>Precedence: bulk
> >> >>X-No-Archive: yes
> >> >>List-Post:
> >> >>List-Help:
> >> >>List-Unsubscribe:
> >> >>List-Subscribe:
> >> >>Delivered-To: mailing list  ibogaine@mindvox.com
> >> >>X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.1 required=4.0
> >> >>X-Antivirus-MYDOMAIN-Mail-From: a.h.veil68@hotmail.com via
> >> >>tanelorn.mindvox.com
> >> >>X-Antivirus-MYDOMAIN: 1.25-st-qms
> >> >>(Clear:RC:0(65.54.224.26):SA:0(-2.1/4.0):. Processed in 8.08646 secs
> >> >>Process 1055)
> >> >>Return-Path:
> >> >>ibogaine-return-23280-billjohnson6=sympatico.ca@mindvox.com
> >> >>X-OriginalArrivalTime: 04 Apr 2006 05:27:22.0868 (UTC)
> >> >>FILETIME=[7363CB40:01C657A8]
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>   I gotta take a piece of this one. Okay, Mr. Anti-choice, let me
> >> >>ask you this: do you eat meat? If not, then good for you. If so,
> >> >>have you ever though about the actual, truly painful, totally
> >>  >>inhumane treatment we put animals through? And usually don’t think
> >> >>twice about it…It’s people like George Bush who make me wish
> >> >>sometimes that God would hurl an asteroid at us! It’s “God forbid
> >> >>one human foetus (who does not feel a thing if the abortion is done
> >> >>in a timely manner, according to the latest research, because their
> >> >>nervous system isn’t nearly fully developed) should perish, no
> >> >>matter if it was caused by a rape or is probably going to be born
> >> >>into alot of suffering–but while I’m on my high horse, cut me a
> >> >>piece o that cow off and cook it up! It’s sheer egotism that we
> >> >>believe that humans are so damned
> >> >>important, but it’s okay if we torture animals, ruin the planet, and
> >> >>make other people  adhere to our beliefs!!! We’re not that important!
> >> >>And if you believe in a God and the soul, then you know that–if the
> >> >>foetus even has a soul yet, which I don’t believe it does..I believe
> >> >>the soul enters with the first breath, and leaves with the
> >> >>last–that baby is just going back into the arms of God! There is no
> >> >>death! And since they don’t experience pain, all it becomes is
> >> >>something for people like you to feel self righteous about!
> >> >>Personally, I think everyone should smoke pot, and would benefit
> >> >>from it (except for a few cases), but how would you like it if I
> >> >>MADE you smoke it? That is, if you don’t, and don’t like it. Or
> >> >>let’s say you eat meat, but I think it’s just as evil to do that as
> >> >>to allow abortions, so  I outlawed meat–would that be okay with you?
> >> >>And the cliff analogy is just stupid–not
> >> >>the same thing at all. But yes, I think if a person is truly
> >> >>miserable, and wants to die, I would try to talk them out of it, but
> >> >>I would never stop them by force. That’s called LACK OF FREEDOM. And
> >> >>if we didn’t make mistakes, how would we ever learn? To be told
> >> >>something is wrong is one thing..you can tell a person, fire will
> >> >>burn you..but until they get burned, they will not truly understand,
> >> >>and that’s what life is all about–learning. No, I don’t like to see
> >> >>foetus’ abortions–I think prevention is the answer….But
> >> >>sometimes, I believe it is ‘the best choice’. If everyone like you
> >> >>had their way, there really would be NO  ROOM AT ALL left!!! We’re
> >> >>already sooo over-populated! It’s like I heard some character say in
> >> >>a movie recently..”everybody’s kids are so special…it makes you
> >> >>wonder where all the normal adults come from”. Even God believes in
> >> >>freedom of choice! That’s why he gave
> >> >>us FREE WILL. You’re a Republican, aren’t you? And you probably
> >> >>think that war-mongering asshole of a President is the best-thing
> >> >>since sliced bread, eh? It’s okay to kill, as long as it’s not a
> >> >>precious child…even though that child may grow up to be The Son of
> >> >>Sam!  well…”take me by the ham, no good, no evil, no give a
> >> >>damn!”  And the Govt. is lying to you! About just about everything.
> >> >>Peace, love, and freedom. Life is too  mysterious to take it so
> >> >>serious!
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>From:  “Billy J”
> >> >>Reply-To:  ibogaine@mindvox.com
> >> >>To:  ibogaine@mindvox.com
> >> >>Subject:  [Ibogaine] RE: [Pornography,psychology,Choice,force,) 2
> >> >>cents
> >> >>Date:  Sun, 02 Apr 2006 21:45:39 -0400
> >> >> >Well It sounds like this place is really mixing it up so I would
> >> >> >like to add a little REALITY TO YOU PRO CHOICERS, I am sure glad I
> >> >> >was not an abortion’ althought I have had my moments.
> >> >> >Yes My Mom was a young Mom and if she had a choice I think that I
> >> >> >would have no Grandkids,  or be babbleing on here.
> >> >> >     I too have an attitude, It is about the only thing in this
> >> >> >world that I really have control over.
> >> >> >Tiger– How well did you do with making ALL your own Choices,
> >> >> >Instead of doing
> >> >>what your were told to do? Not meant to be a shot
> >> >> >at you personally, but I am with the Right or Wrong crowd- No such
> >> >> >thing as grey.
> >> >> >   I do know that some people may have grown up believing that
> >> >>wrong
> >> >> >was right and right was wrong, but I Think that I pretty much knew
> >> >> >when I was stepping out of line and doing wrong.
> >> >> >It is (as most believe) My God , no not God, but My worldly given
> >> >> >Right- to do  wrong- It’s my life and if I want to screw it up then
> >> >> >stay out of my way. And you know what I had a lot of sooo called
> >> >> >friends that did just that WATCHED, AS i WAS Killing myself and
> >> >> >ruining a lot of lifes.
> >> >> >But O O O never no no no neverdare step on somebodys toes because
> >> >> >you know what they have a choice, Just like those poor little
> >> >>Crack
> >> >> >%$^&amp;%$ Women that degrade themselves( and me
> >> >>myself) due to
> >> >> >everybody. But Never No No Never dare tell somebody or force
> >> >>someone
> >> >> >to get some help that they may never ever make it to on their own,
> >> >> >due to something called “Pride” “Shame” “Guilt”
> >> >> >Whatever holds them back. They may end up DEAD and it  would be
> >> >>their
> >> >> >own fault, because you know how STRONG us druggies are, and if
> >> >>that
> >> >> >person dies because he had a choice to get help and refused or
> >> >>just
> >> >> >couldn’t make it on his/her own and needed YOU (of course they
> >> >> >didn’t tell you that).
> >> >> >I am sorry but I BELIEVE that if you Love Someone or even care a
> >> >> >little, and you see them walking off a cliff and YOU have an
> >> >> >opportunity to stop them, and you don’t- Can you truelly say it
> >> >>was
> >> >> >their own fault?
> >> >> >Pornography- I never met too many Normal people that would find it
> >> >> >neccesary to take their
> >> >>cloths off for the public to see. Totally
> >> >> >wrong  and if you had your own kids you might not think it too cool
> >> >> >having your buddy beating off while checking out your little girl.
> >> >> >Not nice eh Billy but P–sy T-ts are not meant for anyone except
> >> >>who
> >> >> >they belong to and their mate.
> >> >> >
> >> >> >Bye For Now, That stuff is about the biggest trigger going for any
> >> >> >downfall
> >> >> >
> >> >> >Bill
> >> >> >—-Original Message Follows—-
> >> >> >From: “Nick Sandberg”
> >> >> >Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
> >> >> >To:
> >> >> >Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Opiates
> >> >> >Date: Sun, 2 Apr 2006 10:24:07 +0100
> >> >> >MIME-Version: 1.0
> >> >>  >Received: from tomts21-srv.bellnexxia.net ([209.226.175.183]) by
> >> >> >bay0-pamc1-f11.bay0.hotmail.com with Microsoft
> >> >> >SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Sun, 2 Apr 2006 05:38:59
> >> >>-0700
> >> >> >Received: from toip5.bellnexxia.net ([209.226.175.88])          by
> >> >> >tomts21-srv.bellnexxia.net          (InterMail vM.5.01.06.13
> >> >> >201-253-122-130-113-20050324) with ESMTP          id
> >> >> >
> >> >> >          for ; Sun, 2 Apr 2006
> >> >>08:38:58
> >>  >> >-0400
> >> >> >Received: from tanelorn.mindvox.com (HELO mail.mindvox.com)
> >> >> >([64.124.179.118])  by toip5.bellnexxia.net with ESMTP; 02 Apr
> >> >>2006
> >> >> >08:38:58 -0400
> >> >> >Received: (qmail 16967 invoked by uid 513); 2 Apr 2006 08:38:55
> >> >> >-0400
> >> >> >Received: (qmail 16961 invoked by uid
> >> >>514); 2 Apr 2006 08:38:55
> >> >> >-0400
> >> >> >X-Message-Info: moY6YVwXQ44WAJnUvaOEtK2hXKGagKAsshDbZwj7pSc=
> >> >> >Mailing-List: contact ibogaine-help@mindvox.com; run by ezmlm
> >> >> >Precedence: bulk
> >> >> >X-No-Archive: yes
> >> >> >List-Post:
> >> >> >List-Help:
> >> >>  >List-Unsubscribe:
> >> >> >List-Subscribe:
> >> >> >Delivered-To: mailing list ibogaine@mindvox.com
> >> >> >X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.3 required=4.0
> >> >> >X-Antivirus-MYDOMAIN-Mail-From: nick227@tiscali.co.uk via
> >> >> >tanelorn.mindvox.com
> >> >> >X-Antivirus-MYDOMAIN: 1.25-st-qms
> >> >> >(Clear:RC:0(212.74.114.37):SA:0(-2.3/4.0):. Processed in 2.781926
> >> >> >secs Process 16953)
> >> >> >X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true
> >> >> >X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result:
> >> >>AQAAAJ0kL0SDE4UI
> >> >> >X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.6604 (9.0.2911.0)
> >> >> >Return-Path:
> >> >>  >ibogaine-return-23233-billjohnson6=sympatico.ca@mindvox.com
> >> >> >X-OriginalArrivalTime: 02 Apr 2006 12:38:59.0373 (UTC)
> >> >> >FILETIME=[6A155DD0:01C65652]
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> >   —–Original Message—–
> >> >> >   From: Tiger Lisa [mailto:tigerlisa@gmail.com]
> >> >> >   Sent: 01 April 2006 13:44
> >> >> >   To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
> >> >> >   Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Opiates
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> >   Dear Nick,
> >> >> >   Here’ the part I don’t understand.
> >> >> >
> >> >> >   You wrote,
> >> >> >   Personally, my position is…I think rising awareness is GOOD.
> >>  >>I
> >> >> >would
> >> >> >love to see more people in groups, going through their stuff,
> >> >> >becoming more
> >> >> >aware of their
> >> >>personal interior dynamic, and moving forward in
> >> >> >life. But,
> >> >> >sadly, I’m not in a position to compel people to do this.
> >> >> >
> >> >> >   Why would you ever want to COMPEL anyone to do ANYTHING? Do you
> >> >> >really
> >> >> >believe that would be useful, effective, helpful? Do you think
> >> >> >people
> >> >> >actually benefit from, and grow from, being FORCED to do anything?
> >> >> >
> >> >> >   That is a parent-child model of interaction (and not a
> >> >> >particularly
> >> >> >skillful one, IMO),  and it’s going to reinforce childlike,
> >> >> >rebellious and
> >> >> >victim behavior (NOT self-awareness!) in the one so compelled, as
> >> >> >well as
> >> >> >reinforcing bullying behavior and disprespectful and righteous
> >> >> >attitudes
> >> >> >(NOT increased compassion or awareness) in the one doing the
> >> >> >compelling. A
> >> >> >”lose-lose” interaction–no one
> >> >>wins!
> >> >> >
> >> >> >   Myself, I believe CHOICE is the name of the game. With choice
> >> >> >comes
> >> >> >responsibility, self-responsibility and a loss of the victim
> >> >> >consciousness
> >> >> >that drives continued reactive and unconscious behavior.
> >> >> >
> >> >> >   So in  a nutshell: Saying something (like awarenss) is GOOD is
> >> >>one
> >> >> >thing,
> >> >> >but it’s a far cry from that to say,”And I’d love to FORCE you all
> >> >> >to be
> >> >> >more aware! too bad I can’t!” I think that is the essence of
> >> >>what
> >> >> >*I* am
> >> >> >having a problem with. Yes, awareness is good. I agree. Yes, I’d
> >> >> >love to
> >> >> >live in a more aware society, umm hmm. Then I read the next
> >> >>sentence
> >> >> >and I’m
> >> >> >brought up short.
> >> >> >
> >> >> >   We all need love, acceptance, compassion. Compassion is one of
> >> >> >the most
> >> >> >healing things
> >> >>going! Power and control, on the other hand, just  get
> >> >> >people’s backs up, thrust them into dysfunctional modes of
> >> >>thinking
> >> >> >and
> >> >> >perpetuate a lack of awareness all around.
> >> >> >
> >> >> >   Just my two cents,
> >> >> >   Tiger
> >> >> >
> >> >> >   PS I bet if you took a shot of heroin, you would experience
> >> >> >bliss! (not
> >> >> >that I’m suggesting you do) I believe it is just how human beings
> >> >> >are wired.
> >> >> >We’ve all got the same neurotransmitters, more or less.
> >> >> >
> >> >> >   Hi Tiger,
> >> >> >
> >> >> >   Well, I seem to recall, from the days when I used to go to
> >> >> >conferences and
> >> >>  >stuff, that studies have shown that only a small percentage of
> >> >> >school kids
> >> >> >who used heroin developed a habit. (Howard Parker in Sheffield, or
> >> >> >something
> >> >> >like that, about 1000 individuals
> >> >>studied). This is not quite the
> >> >> >same as
> >> >> >what you’re saying, I appreciate, but it shows that the drug of
> >> >> >itself is
> >> >> >not necessarily addicting. I don’t know if anyone knows what makes
> >> >>a
> >> >> >difference but I’d be willing to bet that, psychologically, it
> >> >> >relates
> >> >> >strongly to “ego orientation” vs “underlying levels of feeling.”
> >> >>If
> >> >> >you’ve
> >> >> >developed a self-image that requires you to repress more  feelings
> >> >> >than the
> >> >> >endogenous opiates in your body can do, then taking heroin is
> >> >>going
> >> >> >to make
> >> >> >you feel pretty good. I would personally say that this is very
> >> >> >likely one
> >> >> >psychological mechanism behind addiction. This would explain why
> >> >>so
> >> >> >many
> >> >> >addicts do come from relatively high trauma backgrounds. For, as
> >> >> >kids, we
> >> >> >learn that to “get things” and to “be popular” we need to
> >> >>be able to
> >> >> >keep
> >> >> >our feelings a bit under control, not just likely to collapse from
> >> >> >overfeeling at any time.
> >> >> >
> >> >> >   With bliss, (or anxiety for that matter),  these are
> >> >>experiential
> >> >> >things
> >> >> >and no neuroscientist can explain them beyond pointing a little at
> >> >> >things
> >> >> >that seem to be involved. What is clear is that the states are
> >> >> >relative to
> >> >> >one another. If you’re basically a happy person bliss is
> >> >>inevitably
> >> >> >less
> >> >> >attractive than if you’re an anxious person.
> >> >> >
> >> >> >   About awareness, yes, I would love to force everyone to be more
> >> >> >aware!
> >> >> >And, inevitably, it doesn’t really work like that! But that’s my
> >> >> >position
> >> >> >anyway. What to do? Yes, compassion is needed, sometimes a lot of
> >> >> >it. Also,
> >> >>  >all the power and control at times. I’m not so
> >> >>busy with how I think
> >> >> >society
> >> >> >should be, or trying to like Understand the world, I just put my
> >> >> >position
> >> >> >out really. About choice, well, it seems like a great thing, for
> >> >> >sure, but
> >> >> >to me it’s a little the same as trying to push compassion at the
> >> >> >expense of
> >> >> >power. In philosophy or spirituality or whatever, some people
> >> >> >believe that
> >> >> >free will exists, others that the universe is entirely
> >> >> >deterministic. Who
> >> >> >the fuck knows? Both are cool viewpoints, and I personally
> >> >>wouldn’t
> >> >> >just
> >> >> >want to just trapped in just one of  them.
> >> >> >
> >> >> >   Is it cool to allow someone you care about to carry on fucking
> >> >> >their life
> >> >> >up because you believe so much in their free will? Not for me! I
> >> >> >like to
> >> >> >have the guts to take a position. And, to be honest, it’s a little
> >> >>
> >> >> >bit what
> >> >> >I miss in this list, where half the time everyone seems to be
> >> >> >talking it up
> >> >> >all nice but actually underneath there are shed-loads of feelings.
> >> >>I
> >> >> >don’t
> >> >> >know if this says anything significant about ibogaine, or about
> >> >>the
> >> >> >people
> >> >> >who are attracted to administering it, or what. But I notice it.
> >> >>  >
> >> >> >   Nick
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> >/]=———————————————————————=[\
> >> >> >[%] Ibogaine List Commands:
> >> >> >http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
> >> >> >
> >> >> >\]=———————————————————————=[/
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >>
> >> >>  With MSN Spaces email straight to your blog. Upload jokes, photos
> >> >>and more. It’s free!
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>/]=———————————————————————=[\
> >> >>  [%] Ibogaine List  Commands:
> >> >>http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
> >> >>
> >> >>\]=———————————————————————=[/
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>/]=———————————————————————=[\
> >> >>[%] Ibogaine List Commands:
> >> >>http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
> >> >>
> >> >>\]=———————————————————————=[/
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > Be one of the first to try Windows Live Mail
> >> > /]=———————————————————————=[\
> >> > [%] Ibogaine List Commands:
> >> http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html
> >> > [%]
> >> > \]=———————————————————————=[/
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. PC-to-Phone calls for ridiculously low
> >> rates.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >   /]=———————————————————————=[\
> >> >  [%] Ibogaine List Commands:
> >> http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html
> >> > [%]
> >> >   \]=———————————————————————=[/
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>   /]=———————————————————————=[\
> >>  [%] Ibogaine List Commands:
> >> http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
> >>   \]=———————————————————————=[/
> >>
> >>
> >  Save time by starting a search from any Web page with the MSN Search
> > Toolbar-FREE!
> > /]=———————————————————————=[\
> >  [%] Ibogaine List Commands:
> > http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
> > \]=———————————————————————=[/
>
>
>
>
>   /]=———————————————————————=[\
>  [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
>   \]=———————————————————————=[/
>
>
See if you’ve won, play MSN Search and Win
/]=———————————————————————=[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%] \]=———————————————————————=[/

From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] (OT!!!!!) Re: [Ibogaine] : Git?Pro-Life?
Date: April 6, 2006 at 10:26:53 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Can we try to hold the name calling down a notch, it gets to be rather
personal, and I do not need any excuse to be a GIT ( new word for me today),<

Ok Bill, sure. I apologize for getting personal. I’ve been having a major issue with patience recently, and it seems to be doing a lot more harm than good, being impatient. It’s a real difficult thing for me suddenly, and I’m not exactly sure why I’m being this way, so short fused and such, but I am trying to keep myself in check, even if I’m not apparently doing such a great job of it as of late.

but I would just like to see people realize
that if I am at least TRYING and they are trying then it (any good effort)
would mor likely be won with a little honey rather than  vinager.<

Yeah, I agree, even taking my recent impatience issues into account.

Would it not be logical that I would be the one
that doesn’t want to see People die in Iraq?, and you would technically say
that George W Bush can choose (with his Cronies) anything they want and it
is his right?<

I would think you’d be supportive of saving the lives of all living creatures Bill, if you do consider yourself “pro-life,” but the impression I got from your post was that you were supportive of Bush and that the troops are somehow “protecting” us here in the US by killing and being killed in Iraq.
Bush “choosing” to kill others, is not in my mind something that is “cool” to choose, in that by doing so he isn’t choosing for himself, he’s choosing for everyone, including those dying by his decisions. It’s no ones right in my mind to infringe upon, brutalize or murder others. I consider a pregnant woman’s body to be hers to do with as she chooses, until birth.  At that point we have another “person” enter the picture. Before then, it’s her body and her decision. In my mind anyway. Those being killed by Bush have their own choices and rights and Bush doesn’t in my mind have the right to erase them.

Lets just keep looking for answers and try to word things in such a way to
direct people to do good<

Ok, you are right. I’ve been letting myself get way out of any rational state lately, flying off the nandle over imagined AND real slights, things I shouldn’t and can chose not to let affect me thusly. So I do again apologize for my tone, to you and to the list.
I think I need to do some lurking or something.

And thanks for the article.<

You’re welcome.
;-))

Have a Great day Preston.
and Have you taken  Ibogaine <

Yes:

http://www.drugwar.com/pkickingdrugswithdrugs.shtm
Kicking Drugs with Drugs-
Taking the Left Hand Path
By Preston Peet
For DrugWar.com
Posted August 12, 2004
snip-

http://www.drugwar.com/lefthandpath2.shtm
Taking the Left Hand Path.
Again
By
Preston Peet
posted at DrugWar.com
April 19, 2005
(Remember Waco!)

http://www.drugwar.com/sitwchap29.shtm

Something in the Way-
an excerpt
Chapter 29-
The Entheogenic Bed and Breakfast Detox-
An Amsterdam Redux
by Preston Peet
all photos by Preston Peet
unless otherwise noted
posted at DrugWar.com
Feb. 20, 2006
snip-
—-
Yet, If so are you clean today?<

I still use opiate-based pain medication(s) for chronic pain problems. That said, I use them entirely as prescribed (often less than), still, and see no negative changes coming this time, at this point, in my use of them. I might be unduly optimistic, but can’t help it. I feel so much differently than ever before, about my pain and the use of pain meds both. Whether I’m fooling myself or not, only time, and my own decisions, will tell. Still, I can honestly say that ibogaine has allowed me to make drastic changes in the way I behave, treat myself and those around me (other than for the aforementioned and acknowleged issue with lack of patience lately) and I don’t regret finally taking it at all, even the number of times I’ve now taken it at one dose or another (I think I’m up to seven times now total, in either extremely small doses or full on treatment sized doses. I’ve since learned that this isn’t even uncommon, that many folk find they need more than one or two or more treatments to “get it” finally.)
So again, my apologies to the list for my outraged, impatient posts. I’ve got other things to worry about, so admit I’m wasting tons of energy on things I cannot change and on being nasty, which only leaves me feeling more unsettled, if I’m not careful.
Please have a good day all.

—–
“If God dropped acid, would he see people?”  ~Steven Wright

Peace, love and lotsof respect.
Preston

—– Original Message —– From: “Billy J” <billjohnson6@sympatico.ca>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Thursday, April 06, 2006 9:51 AM
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] (OT!!!!!) Re: [Ibogaine] : Git?Pro-Life?

hey Preston,
Homophob here,
just a rebuttal.
I would just like to make it clear about spreading hatred, It is WORDS, that do that, Here I am a unrecovered Drug addict,trying (not that hard I guess) to get staight, and when someone says nasty things about ?? I have a Hard time to get them out of my so simple brain.
I definetly and honestly do not mean any DISRESPECT to Dana, and I am sorry If I came across that way, You see I am learning how to communicate and trying to make a little differance in my little world, So back on topic,
Can we try to hold the name calling down a notch, it gets to be rather personal, and I do not need any excuse to be a GIT ( new word for me today), I am wjat I am and if it means to be a shield for a fellow human being (not a animal but a 2 legged) then so be it.
Dana I would gladly CLIC on an effort to help stop ANY bloodshed or any Lying Fascist or what have you, but I would just like to see people realize that if I am at least TRYING and they are trying then it (any good effort) would mor likely be won with a little honey rather than  vinager.
One more thing, If I am Pro-Life (I think that is reffering to helping someone stay alive) and you are Pro-Choice, (technically meaning doing away with a Blob?Baby?Feotus?) Would it not be logical that I would be the one that doesn’t want to see People die in Iraq?, and you would technically say that George W Bush can choose (with his Cronies) anything they want and it is his right?
You see (I am now shaking) It is really starting to look like WHAT IS WRONG HAS BECOME RIGHT AND WHAT IS RIGHT IS NOW WRONG??
Lets just keep looking for answers and try to word things in such a way to direct people to do good and not be totally influenced by someone that may appear to have more intelligence than they.
And thanks for the article.

I am hear to get a life and not loose it.
I want to get off dope and to stop being a dope so If I ever am wrong (as I think I was in my previous words) then please try to remember that I was born Human.

Have a Great day Preston.
and Have you taken  Ibogaine Yet, If so are you clean today?

Billy The human today
(finally got my Meth 45 minutes ago)
snip-

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: Crooked Eye <iboganaut420@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] The truth hurts but will set you free!!!
Date: April 6, 2006 at 10:17:08 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Melatonin illegal??  What country?  Certainly not the US…

and this”> Scenario, Take 700Mic of Acid and then have a panic attack. What you got
> to do to keep your head from disappearing up your backside, Take, flood
> the system with vit c and Amino acids and you will hit rock bottom within
> about 45 mins.”

That will mnot work at all to end an acid trip, your best bet is benzo’s…  Or in worst cases, thorazine…

Preston Peet <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com> wrote:
>WHEN
I REQUIRED MELATONIN I WENT TO LOOK AND AQUIRE AND THE FRIGGIN GOVENMENT HAS
MADE IT ELIGAL. 2 WEEKS AGO.<

What? This is true? I hadn’t heard about this, and if it is true, I’m, while
not exactly surprised, appalled.
What was the reasoning if this really has happened?
And congratulation to you Paul.
—–
“If God dropped acid, would he see people?” ~Steven Wright

Peace, love and lotsof respect.
Preston Peet
ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor Underground- the Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations,
Astonishing Archaeology and Hidden History
Editor Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Columnist HighTimes mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —–
From: “Paul Brookshaw”
To:
Sent: Thursday, April 06, 2006 9:36 AM
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] The truth hurts but will set you free!!!

> Hi all,
> Well i got to add my opinion to all of this i just read. Firstly, a
> lot of people myself included did not take Heroin, because of low self
> esteem. It was a kick culture thing. Where i grew up it was the thing to
> kick back at the system and be an outlaw. It was fun.
> The fun stopped when the Dragon grabbed me by the bollocks and then shook
> my Monkey to pieces. Then out of fear I ran to someone who I thought would
> know what to do. I was only using a Quarter of a grain of Sugar a day, but
> when that ran out the drug agency titrated me on 80mg of Methadone. 23
> fucking years of torture and slavery. OK now i am clean, still sick. 26
> days with no Opiate, but still struggling on a little VAl. The system has
> got it wrong. The greed of the Man at the so called top, stigmatizes the
> so called little Man into believing that he is inferior. Like telling a
> child that they are useless and will not make anything of there life. In
> the end the poor child believes it. To be used and abused as a child only
> leads you to believe that that is the way to live life and get the most
> from it. The truth is lost in darkness and the person believes that if
> they self destruct enough they will live.
> Scenario, Take 700Mic of Acid and then have a panic attack. What you got
> to do to keep your head from disappearing up your backside, Take, flood
> the system with vit c and Amino acids and you will hit rock bottom within
> about 45 mins. Now the person who comes off Methadone or any Opiate must
> learn that there body does not know how to take on board what it needs to
> stand. If the Addict does not know how to listen to his body he will
> collapse and feel like he is going to die.
> Retardant withdrawal last many years, but if you are obedient to your body
> you get there faster.
> Iboga has helped me to do this. Instead of having to fight to teach my
> body for nearly a year how to eat drink and sleep.
> Damage limitation is OK, but why not just Frontal Lobotomise the Addict
> completely with Chemical Coshes and ignore them. Well that is just what
> Methadone does. You just as well have the op and also be castrated at the
> same time. Slavery. Low self esteem could be the root of the problem in
> the first place, but i doubt is, as as a child before experimentation, I
> only wanted to have fun and go for long bike rides and have adventures and
> go fishing.
> Methadone killed all of that and flat lined me.
> I only had a small habit, which was dealt with, with a prehistoric tool,
> just so I would be quiet.
> Well I am sorry folks, but i ain’t dead yet. So you people of the so
> called Revolution. WAKEUP. GGET YOUR HEADS OUT OF THE SAND AND TAKE STOCK
> OF WHAT YOU REALLY HAVE. stop MOANING ABOUT WHAT YOU CANNOT HAVE AND BE
> GREATFULL FOR WHAT YOU DO HAVE. do WHAT THOU WILL SHOULD BE THE WHOLE OF
> THE LAW TO YOU. do NOT COVET THY NAIBOURS GOODS. and LIVE A WHOLE AND
> MORAL LIFE AS YOU SEE FIT. JUDGE AND BE JUDGED.
> if PEOPLE WANT TO THROW CRAP ABOUT ON THIS SIGHT THEY MUST REMEMBER THAT
> THEY NOT ONLY ANSWER TO THEMSELVES, BUT ALSO TO GOD AND THERE FELLOW MAN.
> create NO WARFARE AND THOU SHALL NOT GET WAFARE IN RETURN.
> sorry FOLKS FO THE INTENSITY OF THIS WORD, BUT I HAVE BEEN PUSHED AND
> SHOVED AND USED BY THE SO CALLED CARING SYSTEM ALL MY LIFE, AND NOW WHEN I
> TAKE BACK CONTROL FO MYSELF, I ONLY GET FEAR IN RETURN.
> this IS THE TRUE ROOT OF THE PROBLEM OF WHY AN ADDICT CANNOT RECOVER
> PROPRLY.
> tHE DAMN SYSTEM IS TOO TIGHT TO FEED THEM POPERLY. hOW COME THE mONKS IN
> THIALAND KNOW WHAT THEY ARE DOING, AND THERE SECRET MUST BE A MEMBER OF
> THE VINE OF LIFE. JUST NOT IBOGA. SAME MOLOCULE THOUGH. THE ANCIENT WAYS
> HAVE BEEN WITH MAN SINCE THE BEGINNING OF TIME. SO BY TAKING IBOGA, ONE IS
> NOT SWAPING ONE ADDICTION FOR ANOTHER, BUT ALLOWING ONES-SELF TO TAKE
> STOCK AND REFRESH. dRINK THE WATER, EAT THE GOOD FOOD AND SLEEP AND
> RECOVER.
> aLL THE REST IS BULLSHIT. HERE IS COMPLETE BULSHIT. i AM TRYING TO BUST
> THE BENZOS. I ABSTAINED FOR NINE DAYS AND THEN COLLAPSED AND NEARLY
> FITTED. WHEN I REQUIRED MELATONIN I WENT TO LOOK AND AQUIRE AND THE
> FRIGGIN GOVENMENT HAS MADE IT ELIGAL. 2 WEEKS AGO. SO I HAVE GOT TO PUT UP
> WITH A NUMB AND COLD BODY AND A SCEAMING HEAD, JUST COS I AIN’T FILTHY
> RICH.
> FISH MONGES ARE HONOURABLE LIKE MOST TRADES MEN, BUT MONY MONGERS ARE FULL
> OF SHIT AND HOLD NO HEAT FELT COMPASION. i CANNOT EVEN GET THE DAMN STUFF
> PROSCRIBED ME BY MY OWN DOCTORR, UNLESS I GO TO HARLEY STREET AND PAY 500
> QUID.
> tHIS IS WHAT STICKS IN MY CRAW.
> INTELIGENCE SAYS WHAT TO USE AND WHAT FOR, BUT BECAUSE YOU ARE SEEN AS SO
> CALLED UNKNOWLEDGABLE, YOU GET FUCKED. THERE IS NOTHING UNKNOWLEDGABLE
> ABOUT DAMAGE LIMITATION. SO WHY ALL THE FEAR, WHEN A LITTLE MAN AS MYSELF
> WANTS TO TAKE BACK CONTROL.
> PEACE ENOUGH FOR NOW. PRAY READ AND DIGEST YOU SO CALLED PEOPLE OF
> KNOWLEDGE THAT HAVE NEVER TOOK IBOGA OR ANY SUBSTANCES IN YOUR LIFE.
> HOW THE FUCK CAN YOU SAY YOU HAVE WORN THE T-SHIRT AND SEE, WHEN YOU
> HAVEN’T EVEN GOT THE MONEY FOR THE BUS TO GO SHOPPING WITH IN THE FIST
> PLACE
> tHANKYOU AND
> BLESSINGS TO ALL THAT KNOW AND HERE AND SEE.
>
> STRENGHT, POWE HONOUR SHALL LEAD YOU TO RESPECT YOURSELF.
> PAUL:)~”’
>>
>>In a way I wouldn’t like to do to others what I would not want to be done
>>to me,
>>if I were in the same position.
>>
>>Sara’
>
>
> Spot on Darling!!!
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today – it’s FREE!
> http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/
>
>
>
>
> /]=———————————————————————=[\
> [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html
> [%]
>
> \]=———————————————————————=[/
>

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

Talk is cheap. Use Yahoo! Messenger to make PC-to-Phone calls. Great rates starting at 1¢/min.

From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] The truth hurts but will set you free!!!
Date: April 6, 2006 at 10:07:52 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

WHEN
I REQUIRED MELATONIN I WENT TO LOOK AND AQUIRE AND THE FRIGGIN GOVENMENT HAS
MADE IT ELIGAL. 2 WEEKS AGO.<

What? This is true? I hadn’t heard about this, and if it is true, I’m, while not exactly surprised, appalled.
What was the reasoning if this really has happened?
And congratulation to you Paul.
—–
“If God dropped acid, would he see people?”  ~Steven Wright

Peace, love and lotsof respect.
Preston Peet
ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor Underground- the Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations, Astonishing Archaeology and Hidden History
Editor Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Columnist HighTimes mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —– From: “Paul Brookshaw” <jiggy9@hotmail.co.uk>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Thursday, April 06, 2006 9:36 AM
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] The truth hurts but will set you free!!!

Hi all,
Well i got to add my opinion to all of this i just read. Firstly, a lot of people myself included did not take Heroin, because of low self esteem. It was a kick culture thing. Where i grew up it was the thing to kick back at the system and be an outlaw. It was fun.
The fun stopped when the Dragon grabbed me by the bollocks and then shook my Monkey to pieces. Then out of fear I ran to someone who I thought would know what to do. I was only using a Quarter of a grain of Sugar a day, but when that ran out the drug agency titrated me on 80mg of Methadone. 23 fucking years of torture and slavery. OK now i am clean, still sick. 26 days with no Opiate, but still struggling on a little VAl. The system has got it wrong. The greed of the Man at the so called top, stigmatizes the so called little Man into believing that he is inferior. Like telling a child that they are useless and will not make anything of there life. In the end the poor child believes it. To be used and abused as a child only leads you to believe that that is the way to live life and get the most from it. The truth is lost in darkness and the person believes that if they self destruct enough they will live.
Scenario, Take 700Mic of Acid and then have a panic attack. What you got to do to keep your head from disappearing up your backside, Take, flood the system with vit c and Amino acids and you will hit rock bottom within about 45 mins. Now the person who comes off Methadone or any Opiate must learn that there body does not know how to take on board what it needs to stand. If the Addict does not know how to listen to his body he will collapse and feel like he is going to die.
Retardant withdrawal last many years, but if you are obedient to your body you get there faster.
Iboga has helped me to do this. Instead of having to fight to teach my body for nearly a year how to eat drink and sleep.
Damage limitation is OK, but why not just Frontal Lobotomise the Addict completely with Chemical Coshes and ignore them. Well that is just what Methadone does. You just as well have the op and also be castrated at the same time. Slavery. Low self esteem could be the root of the problem in the first place, but i doubt is, as as a child before experimentation, I only wanted to have fun and go for long bike rides and have adventures and go fishing.
Methadone killed all of that and flat lined me.
I only had a small habit, which was dealt with, with a prehistoric tool, just so I would be quiet.
Well I am sorry folks, but i ain’t dead yet. So you people of the so called Revolution. WAKEUP. GGET YOUR HEADS OUT OF THE SAND AND TAKE STOCK OF WHAT YOU REALLY HAVE. stop MOANING ABOUT WHAT YOU CANNOT HAVE AND BE GREATFULL FOR WHAT YOU DO HAVE. do WHAT THOU WILL SHOULD BE THE WHOLE OF THE LAW TO YOU. do NOT COVET THY NAIBOURS GOODS. and LIVE A WHOLE AND MORAL LIFE AS YOU SEE FIT. JUDGE AND BE JUDGED.
if PEOPLE WANT TO THROW CRAP ABOUT ON THIS SIGHT THEY MUST REMEMBER THAT THEY NOT ONLY ANSWER TO THEMSELVES, BUT ALSO TO GOD AND THERE FELLOW MAN. create NO WARFARE AND THOU SHALL NOT GET WAFARE IN RETURN.
sorry FOLKS FO THE INTENSITY OF THIS WORD, BUT I HAVE BEEN PUSHED AND SHOVED AND USED BY THE SO CALLED CARING SYSTEM ALL MY LIFE, AND NOW WHEN I TAKE BACK CONTROL FO MYSELF, I ONLY GET FEAR IN RETURN.
this IS THE TRUE ROOT OF THE PROBLEM OF WHY AN ADDICT CANNOT RECOVER PROPRLY.
tHE DAMN SYSTEM IS TOO TIGHT TO FEED THEM POPERLY. hOW COME THE mONKS IN THIALAND KNOW WHAT THEY ARE DOING, AND THERE SECRET MUST BE A MEMBER OF THE VINE OF LIFE. JUST NOT IBOGA. SAME MOLOCULE THOUGH. THE ANCIENT WAYS HAVE BEEN WITH MAN SINCE THE BEGINNING OF TIME. SO BY TAKING IBOGA, ONE IS NOT SWAPING ONE ADDICTION FOR ANOTHER, BUT ALLOWING ONES-SELF TO TAKE STOCK AND REFRESH. dRINK THE WATER, EAT THE GOOD FOOD AND SLEEP AND RECOVER.
aLL THE REST IS BULLSHIT. HERE IS COMPLETE BULSHIT. i AM TRYING TO BUST THE BENZOS. I ABSTAINED FOR NINE DAYS AND THEN COLLAPSED AND NEARLY FITTED. WHEN I REQUIRED MELATONIN I WENT TO LOOK AND AQUIRE AND THE FRIGGIN GOVENMENT HAS MADE IT ELIGAL. 2 WEEKS AGO. SO I HAVE GOT TO PUT UP WITH A NUMB AND COLD BODY AND A SCEAMING HEAD, JUST COS I AIN’T FILTHY RICH.
FISH MONGES ARE HONOURABLE LIKE MOST TRADES MEN, BUT MONY MONGERS ARE FULL OF SHIT AND HOLD NO HEAT FELT COMPASION. i CANNOT EVEN GET THE DAMN STUFF PROSCRIBED ME BY MY OWN DOCTORR, UNLESS I GO TO HARLEY STREET AND PAY 500 QUID.
tHIS IS WHAT STICKS IN MY CRAW.
INTELIGENCE SAYS WHAT TO USE AND WHAT FOR, BUT BECAUSE YOU ARE SEEN AS SO CALLED UNKNOWLEDGABLE, YOU GET FUCKED. THERE IS NOTHING UNKNOWLEDGABLE ABOUT DAMAGE LIMITATION. SO WHY ALL THE FEAR, WHEN A LITTLE MAN AS MYSELF WANTS TO TAKE BACK CONTROL.
PEACE ENOUGH FOR NOW. PRAY READ AND DIGEST YOU SO CALLED PEOPLE OF KNOWLEDGE THAT HAVE NEVER TOOK IBOGA OR ANY SUBSTANCES IN YOUR LIFE.
HOW THE FUCK CAN YOU SAY YOU HAVE WORN THE T-SHIRT AND SEE, WHEN YOU HAVEN’T EVEN GOT THE MONEY FOR THE BUS TO GO SHOPPING WITH IN THE FIST PLACE
tHANKYOU AND BLESSINGS TO ALL THAT KNOW AND HERE AND SEE.

STRENGHT, POWE HONOUR SHALL LEAD YOU TO RESPECT YOURSELF.
PAUL:)~”’

In a way I wouldn’t like to do to others what I would not want to be done
to me,
if I were in the same position.

Sara’

Spot on Darling!!!

_________________________________________________________________
Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today – it’s FREE! http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] (still OT!!!!!) Re: [Ibogaine] Support our London contingent: Git?
Date: April 6, 2006 at 10:04:48 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

“Vice-President Dick Cheney even made millions of dollars profit for himself and Haliburton Company, by selling oil-industry equipment and services to Iraq through third-party countries from 1995 to 2000.” (From Iraq Attack, excerpted and linked further below.)

Billy wrote in his outraged post questioning how folk like “Dana” could call Bush et al “facists” >When in fact it was the spread of hatred that did it, and who started and
kept the hatred going?<

LOL, oh hell, I can’t resist such an open invite to help clear things up a bit:

http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB82/
Shaking Hands with Saddam Hussein
The U.S. Tilts toward Iraq, 1980-1984
National Security Archive Electronic Briefing Book No. 82
Edited by Joyce Battle
February 25, 2003

snip-
Prolonging the war was phenomenally expensive. Iraq received massive external financial support from the Gulf states, and assistance through loan programs from the U.S. The White House and State Department pressured the Export-Import Bank to provide Iraq with financing, to enhance its credit standing and enable it to obtain loans from other international financial institutions. The U.S. Agriculture Department provided taxpayer-guaranteed loans for purchases of American commodities, to the satisfaction of U.S. grain exporters.
The U.S. restored formal relations with Iraq in November 1984, but the U.S. had begun, several years earlier, to provide it with intelligence and military support (in secret and contrary to this country’s official neutrality) in accordance with policy directives from President Ronald Reagan. These were prepared pursuant to his March 1982 National Security Study Memorandum (NSSM 4-82) asking for a review of U.S. policy toward the Middle East.
One of these directives from Reagan, National Security Decision Directive (NSDD) 99, signed on July 12, 1983, is available only in a highly redacted version [Document 21]. It reviews U.S. regional interests in the Middle East and South Asia, and U.S. objectives, including peace between Israel and the Arabs, resolution of other regional conflicts, and economic and military improvements, “to strengthen regional stability.” It deals with threats to the U.S., strategic planning, cooperation with other countries, including the Arab states, and plans for action. An interdepartmental review of the implications of shifting policy in favor of Iraq was conducted following promulgation of the directive.
By the summer of 1983 Iran had been reporting Iraqi use of using chemical weapons for some time. The Geneva protocol requires that the international community respond to chemical warfare, but a diplomatically isolated Iran received only a muted response to its complaints [Note 1]. It intensified its accusations in October 1983, however, and in November asked for a United Nations Security Council investigation.
The U.S., which followed developments in the Iran-Iraq war with extraordinary intensity, had intelligence confirming Iran’s accusations, and describing Iraq’s “almost daily” use of chemical weapons, concurrent with its policy review and decision to support Iraq in the war [Document 24]. The intelligence indicated that Iraq used chemical weapons against Iranian forces, and, according to a November 1983 memo, against “Kurdish insurgents” as well [Document 25].
snip-
(Of course, the US Army War College actually came out with a report accusing IRAN of gassing the Kurds, not Iraq, but that “fact” is usually ignored in the press:

http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/helms.html
US Army War College: NO PROOF SADDAM GASSED THE KURDS!
Memo to Jess Helms from InfoTimes. Note excerpt from US Army War College report that no evidence exists to support US claims that Iraq used gas on the Kurds. )

http://www.disinfo.com/archive/pages/dossier/id938/pg1/index.html
Iraq Attack (March 7, 2001)
(by Preston Peet- there are a LOT of links both imbedded within the main text of this article, and following the essay too there is a long list of further links, for those who can, and do not only read but use their brains for critical thinking.)

snip-
Bush bombed Iraq twice within a week (February 16-22), striving manfully to play catch-up to Clinton’s incessant bombing of Iraq since Operation Desert Fox (December 1998).
Accusing the Serbs and the Chinese of helping the Iraqis install an advanced fiber optics system that would increase the accuracy of Iraqi missiles fired at US and UK warplanes, the Bush administration has neglected to mention it was dual-purpose technology from the US being installed, designed by AT&T.

The Chinese obtained the technology in 1994 from William Perry, the Clinton administration’s Secretary of Defense.

This would be a case of Clinton “following in the footsteps of his predecessor,” as George Herbert Bush was also heavily involved in the same practice.

When George Herbert Bush left office, investigators discovered that he had not only been enabling Saddam to defraud the US taxpayers by diverting grain-credits towards buying weapons and rebuilding his military since 1985, but that he had allowed highly-restricted dual-use technology, which can be used for both civilian and military purposes, to be sold to Saddam Hussein.

(Not only that, but George Herbert Bush also allowed sales to the Chinese of dual-use technology, particularly for use in launching missiles.)

As the Center for Security Studies noted in 1992, the harm caused by the Iran-Contra scandal was negligible compared to those of Bush’s policy on Iraq, which resulted in $2 Billion in defaulted taxpayer-subsidized credit guarantees, “to say nothing of the human, financial and environmental costs of a war necessitated by Saddam’s aggression which was, in turn, made possible at least partially by US assistance,” Time magazine reporter Tony Karon wrote in December 2000. Karon observed that a Bush presidential victory wouldn’t mean a whole lot to China, because “where the Clinton administration harangued China periodically about human-rights, the Bush administration might be more likely to draw lines in the sand such as the sale of missile technology to third countries [emphasis added]. But the bottom line is that both teams have been opening up China for business, and President-elect Bush was a hearty supporter of lifting the annual Congressional review of trade relations between the two countries.”

snip-

On Friday, February 16, 2001), on the Muslim Sabbath, 24 British and American warplanes “swooped in” at 35,000 feet, and while still within the Southern no-fly zone, fired 2000 pound Paveway III laser-guided missiles, and an unknown number of Raytheon/Texas Instruments-designed ‘stand-off’ bombs, costing $300,000 each, at Al Suwayrah, a sophisticated Iraqi radar and command center about 40 miles south-west of Baghdad. Five separate targets were hit, resulting in at least two civilian deaths (seven deaths in total), reported by Baghdad.

snip-

“Harken Energy Corporation – in which George W. Bush served as company director and corporate consultant before entering politics – gained 5.4 percent by the end of trading. Harken Energy happens to be a key player in Colombian oil, with a multi-billion dollar aid package on hand to protect its investments. Harken Energy CEO Mikel Faulkner is a former business associate of G.W.”

Is it a coincidence that 2 days before this latest raid, in which president George W. Bush had to personally sign off on his first military order, he had publicly “confirmed” a $2.6 billion increase of the Pentagon’s budget, only a “down payment on new-weapons research and development?”

snip-

Vice-President Dick Cheney even made millions of dollars profit for himself and Haliburton Company, by selling oil-industry equipment and services to Iraq through third-party countries from 1995 to 2000. Cheney thereby avoiding the ‘strict’ sanctions that he and the rest of George Herbert Bush’s crew made sure to put in place, and which Clinton kept in place. The Chinese are alleged, in a similar fashion, to have forwarded the fiber optics technology bought from the US in 1994, on to Iraq.

snip-

US forces under commanders like General Barry McCaffrey [maniacal, bloodthirsty US Drug Czar under Clinton, for those here on the ibo list who might be unaware of this tidbit of trivia] were literally slaughtering Iraqi forces, who never stood a chance, despite the intense Allied propaganda campaign which painted them as one of the largest, most modern armies in the world.

Nothing stood between the Allied forces and Baghdad but beaten, retreating Iraqis and dead bodies. When George Herbert Bush called off his dogs of war, he stopped US Generals Colin Powell and Norman Schwarzkopf from making a triumphant entry into the Iraqi capital. Why? Because Iraq is worth more to the ruling-class alive and struggling than it is bled-dry and left for dead.

The current geopolitical scenario concerning Iraq was veritably designed by George Herbert Bush’s strategists, and continued by the next two administrations, in order to justify war profiteering. The policy has enabled US defense contractors to continue raking in their dough of death while developing and supplying big oil’s competition-killing murder-machinery.

How dare the Iraqi people not overthrow their un-elected ruler? They should have total control over their government, but they don’t, so they’re going to continue getting what they “deserve.”

(As noted already, there are a lot of links both in the complete text and following the main essay itself at the URL at the top of this excerpted post)

—–
“If God dropped acid, would he see people?”  ~Steven Wright

Peace, love and lotsof respect.
Preston Peet
ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor Underground- the Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations, Astonishing Archaeology and Hidden History
Editor Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Columnist HighTimes mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —– From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Thursday, April 06, 2006 9:20 AM
Subject: [Ibogaine] (OT!!!!!) Re: [Ibogaine] Support our London contingent: Git?

Hi all,
While I feel pretty strongly about the whole food issue, at least we’ve managed to stay fairly civil towards one another, not to metion fairly rational and polite. The below dreck from “pro-life” Billy though, I couldn’t let slide by without a comment, as far off topic as it appears to be.

that spread hatred and excuse for our soldiers and other
people that are standing up for us to get KILLED. You would be the first to
let the enemy know where our troops are so they could get killed and then
say It Was George Bush That did it.<

Wait a minute- besides the above being total bullshit, Bush et all have indeed lied repeatedly about the reasons for warring on the innocent living, breathing civilians living in Iraq (and elsewhere and lied about so much more too), Iraqis who were/are no threat to us here in the US at all in any way, shape or form (except to those making oodles of money off oil and war of course)- or once living but now murdered by warmongering bloodthirsty killers and liars- and that’d be the anti-war folks’ fault? LOL, egad!
When exactly did Dana spread hate that resulted in more bombs being dropped, less money going to social programs here at home to help care for our fellow right-now-alive-as-we-speak neighbors and friends and citizens, and yet more money going to bomb/gun/deathcontraption manufacturers? I can think of many instances whereby our “president” did lie and the results were those enummerated above.
I do consider you a homophobe or a bigot if you come out saying homosexuality was/is “wrong” or sinful Billy.
And how is our protesting the evil War on Iraq getting our soldiers killed, and how exactly are they standing up for “us” by killing Iraqis or being killed by Iraqis? This is a rhetorical question actually, as it’s already more than clear that you are totally supportive of the warmongering and killing going on in our names. Unless, as you’ve made abundantly clear, it’s of not-yet-born fetuses of course.
I’m posting the (very brief) except below, just in case you not only CAN read (and critically think) but bother to do so on occasion:

http://news.nationaljournal.com/articles/0330nj1.htm

Insulating Bush
By Murray Waas, National Journal
© National Journal Group Inc.
Thursday, March 30, 2006
Karl Rove, President Bush’s chief political adviser, cautioned other White House aides in the summer of 2003 that Bush’s 2004 re-election prospects would be severely damaged if it was publicly disclosed that he had been personally warned that a key rationale for going to war had been challenged within the administration. Rove expressed his concerns shortly after an informal review of classified government records by then-Deputy National Security Adviser Stephen J. Hadley determined that Bush had been specifically advised that claims he later made in his 2003 State of the Union address — that Iraq was procuring high-strength aluminum tubes to build a nuclear weapon — might not be true, according to government records and interviews.
Hadley was particularly concerned that the public might learn of a classified one-page summary of a National Intelligence Estimate, specifically written for Bush in October 2002. The summary said that although “most agencies judge” that the aluminum tubes were “related to a uranium enrichment effort,” the State Department’s Bureau of Intelligence and Research and the Energy Department’s intelligence branch “believe that the tubes more likely are intended for conventional weapons.”
Three months after receiving that assessment, the president stated without qualification in his January 28, 2003, State of the Union address: “The British government has learned that Saddam Hussein recently sought significant quantities of uranium from Africa. Our intelligence sources tell us that he has attempted to purchase high-strength aluminum tubes suitable for nuclear weapons production.”
The previously undisclosed review by Hadley was part of a damage-control effort launched after former Ambassador Joseph C. Wilson IV alleged that Bush’s claims regarding the uranium were not true. The CIA had sent Wilson to the African nation of Niger in 2002 to investigate the purported procurement efforts by Iraq; he reported that they were most likely a hoax.
The White House was largely successful in defusing the Niger controversy because there was no evidence that Bush was aware that his claims about the uranium were based on faulty intelligence. Then-CIA Director George Tenet swiftly and publicly took the blame for the entire episode, saying that he and the CIA were at fault for not warning Bush and his aides that the information might be untrue.
But Hadley and other administration officials realized that it would be much more difficult to shield Bush from criticism for his statements regarding the aluminum tubes, for several reasons.
For one, Hadley’s review concluded that Bush had been directly and repeatedly apprised of the deep rift within the intelligence community over whether Iraq wanted the high-strength aluminum tubes for a nuclear weapons program or for conventional weapons.
For another, the president and others in the administration had cited the aluminum tubes as the most compelling evidence that Saddam was determined to build a nuclear weapon — even more than the allegations that he was attempting to purchase uranium.
And finally, full disclosure of the internal dissent over the importance of the tubes would have almost certainly raised broader questions about the administration’s conduct in the months leading up to war.
“Presidential knowledge was the ball game,” says a former senior government official outside the White House who was personally familiar with the damage-control effort. “The mission was to insulate the president. It was about making it appear that he wasn’t in the know. You could do that on Niger. You couldn’t do that with the tubes.” A Republican political appointee involved in the process, who thought the Bush administration had a constitutional obligation to be more open with Congress, said: “This was about getting past the election.”
snip-
Thank goodness folk like Bush (a facist through and through, just like all his supporters are at heart) are looking out for (HIS and HIS FRIENDS and FELLOW FACISTS’) “our” best interests. Whew. So, can you please explain why it’s those we “elected” to represent us who keep legislating away our constitutionally guarenteed rights, and when exactly the “terrorists” have done the same? Thanks kindly.

—–
“If God dropped acid, would he see people?”  ~Steven Wright

Peace, love and lotsof respect.
Preston Peet
ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor Underground- the Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations, Astonishing Archaeology and Hidden History
Editor Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Columnist HighTimes mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —– From: “Billy J” <billjohnson6@sympatico.ca>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Thursday, April 06, 2006 8:33 AM
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Support our London contingent: Git?

I am on my way to work but I just read this 1st e-mail about Fascists and George Bush and ???

Dana, I do not call myself anything as far as right or left fascist or otherwise, BUT WHY DO PEOPLE LIKE YOURSELF LABLE OTHERS WHO DO NOT AGRREE WITH YOU? oR EVEN IF SOMEONE JUST WANTS WHAT IS BEST FOR all that is on this planet and they do the best thay can, yet fall Short due to iether being misinformed or they just make mistakes or who knows.??

You see just because I do not agree with Homosex- You would call me a Homophobic Right? Without even asking me about the many people in my life and or my own personal experiences with some of these people!!  Thats being a GIT Yes?
Or if I think its OK for a Woman to Raise her own Kids, as aposed to sending them to be raised at a daycare- then I am a Male Shovanist >> Right?
Or – Abortion, So I believe that as soon as conception happens that life has started ,So I am A PRO LIFER- and I hate every body that doesn’t agree with me _ That is simply not true, yet you (I am Just ging by your disrespect towards the USA’s President) People continue to turn anything that is done by people in power that have been elected, by the people (That was fixed too I guess) No I am just soo soo sooo SICK of people with your type of attitude ( and that does not mean that you do not mean well, you are just voicing your free opinion) that spread hatred and excuse for our soldiers and other people that are standing up for us to get KILLED. You would be the first to let the enemy know where our troops are so they could get killed and then say It Was George Bush That did it.
When in fact it was the spread of hatred that did it, and who started and kept the hatred going?
YOU did.
But if you could start something with the foundation being LOVE then you would win! Love always
Win.
Have a GREAT DAY
Bill
P.S. No more hate
—-Original Message Follows—-
From: Dana Beal <dana@phantom.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] Support our London contingent: CLICK
Date: Wed, 5 Apr 2006 20:16:28 -0400
MIME-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v746.2)
Received: from tomts11-srv.bellnexxia.net ([209.226.175.55]) by bay0-pamc1-f9.bay0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Wed, 5 Apr 2006 17:16:50 -0700
Received: from toip3.bellnexxia.net ([209.226.175.86])          by tomts11-srv.bellnexxia.net          (InterMail vM.5.01.06.13 201-253-122-130-113-20050324) with ESMTP          id <20060406001906.HIUC6620.tomts11-srv.bellnexxia.net@toip3.bellnexxia.net> for <billjohnson6@sympatico.ca>; Wed, 5 Apr 2006 20:19:06 -0400
Received: from tanelorn.mindvox.com (HELO mail.mindvox.com) ([64.124.179.118])  by toip3.bellnexxia.net with ESMTP; 05 Apr 2006 20:16:49 -0400
Received: (qmail 14106 invoked by uid 513); 5 Apr 2006 20:16:46 -0400
Received: (qmail 14100 invoked by uid 514); 5 Apr 2006 20:16:46 -0400
X-Message-Info: moY6YVwXQ47qLg4LlXQ6I5Vh2VQ2noEBuJYLlXaU7Hw=
Mailing-List: contact ibogaine-help@mindvox.com; run by ezmlm
Precedence: bulk
X-No-Archive: yes
List-Post: <mailto:ibogaine@mindvox.com>
List-Help: <mailto:ibogaine-help@mindvox.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:ibogaine-unsubscribe@mindvox.com>
List-Subscribe: <mailto:ibogaine-subscribe@mindvox.com>
Delivered-To: mailing list ibogaine@mindvox.com
X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.6 required=4.0
X-Antivirus-MYDOMAIN-Mail-From: dana@phantom.com via tanelorn.mindvox.com
X-Antivirus-MYDOMAIN: 1.25-st-qms (Clear:RC:0(209.51.166.17):SA:0(-2.6/4.0):. Processed in 7.106419 secs Process 14075)
X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.746.2)
Return-Path: ibogaine-return-23396-billjohnson6=sympatico.ca@mindvox.com
X-OriginalArrivalTime: 06 Apr 2006 00:16:50.0629 (UTC) FILETIME=[66893F50:01C6590F]

direct action: ‘click against a git’ campaign – drugs,
sex, football, anarchy

AS you probally know the ‘blogosphere’ is populated by
large numbers of racist, facist, nazi loonies who get
millions of hits.

‘Schmoo On the Run’ which promotes peace, love and
ibogaine, is listed against them, and currently stands
at No 150 out of thousands, but the fascist, George
Bush loving, wannabe consentration guards, and fake
anarchists are still ahead!

But you can make a difference: you can ‘CLICK AGAINST
A GIT’ by hitting ‘schmoon on the run’ on a
daily/weekly/monthly/yearly basis. Bookmarx this
revolution now! http://schmoontherun.blogspot.com

You don’t have to read our daily exclusive ‘drugs,
sex, football’ analysis of world events, essential to
your survival.

All you have to do is ‘Click against a Git’, and you
could help stop the ozone hole above you getting
bigger by changing world opinion.

Rember: drugs, sex, football, anarchy; click againt a
git.

http://schmoontherun.blogspot.com

‘Ta muchley’ (as they say in london).

Note: A ‘git’ is an ‘idiot’ in London English.

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]

\]=———————————————————————=[/

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]

\]=———————————————————————=[/

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: “Billy J” <billjohnson6@sympatico.ca>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] The truth hurts but will set you free!!!Thanks
Date: April 6, 2006 at 10:00:19 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Thanks Paul,
Gotta go but You are DEFINETALLY Rich beyond most anyone withmuch$$$ really big thanks for a good start to my day,
Look forward to learning and reading further.
Keep it up as you have made a differance today.

Bill,

—-Original Message Follows—-
From: “Paul Brookshaw” <jiggy9@hotmail.co.uk>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] The truth hurts but will set you free!!!
Date: Thu, 06 Apr 2006 14:36:26 +0100
MIME-Version: 1.0
Received: from tomts34-srv.bellnexxia.net ([209.226.175.108]) by bay0-pamc1-f12.bay0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Thu, 6 Apr 2006 06:38:23 -0700
Received: from toip5.bellnexxia.net ([209.226.175.88])          by tomts34-srv.bellnexxia.net          (InterMail vM.5.01.06.13 201-253-122-130-113-20050324) with ESMTP          id <20060406133822.VDLS15370.tomts34-srv.bellnexxia.net@toip5.bellnexxia.net>          for <billjohnson6@sympatico.ca>; Thu, 6 Apr 2006 09:38:22 -0400
Received: from tanelorn.mindvox.com (HELO mail.mindvox.com) ([64.124.179.118])  by toip5.bellnexxia.net with ESMTP; 06 Apr 2006 09:38:20 -0400
Received: (qmail 7654 invoked by uid 513); 6 Apr 2006 09:38:18 -0400
Received: (qmail 7648 invoked by uid 514); 6 Apr 2006 09:38:18 -0400
X-Message-Info: moY6YVwXQ44fjyaq8gyBaHiIIZpP1LQNgrh4IBGByMU=
Mailing-List: contact ibogaine-help@mindvox.com; run by ezmlm
Precedence: bulk
X-No-Archive: yes
List-Post: <mailto:ibogaine@mindvox.com>
List-Help: <mailto:ibogaine-help@mindvox.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:ibogaine-unsubscribe@mindvox.com>
List-Subscribe: <mailto:ibogaine-subscribe@mindvox.com>
Delivered-To: mailing list ibogaine@mindvox.com
X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.9 required=4.0
X-Antivirus-MYDOMAIN-Mail-From: jiggy9@hotmail.co.uk via tanelorn.mindvox.com
X-Antivirus-MYDOMAIN: 1.25-st-qms (Clear:RC:0(65.54.168.36):SA:0(-1.9/4.0):. Processed in 4.735972 secs Process 7592)
Return-Path: ibogaine-return-23422-billjohnson6=sympatico.ca@mindvox.com
X-OriginalArrivalTime: 06 Apr 2006 13:38:23.0204 (UTC) FILETIME=[5FF1D240:01C6597F]

Hi all,
Well i got to add my opinion to all of this i just read. Firstly, a lot of people myself included did not take Heroin, because of low self esteem. It was a kick culture thing. Where i grew up it was the thing to kick back at the system and be an outlaw. It was fun.
The fun stopped when the Dragon grabbed me by the bollocks and then shook my Monkey to pieces. Then out of fear I ran to someone who I thought would know what to do. I was only using a Quarter of a grain of Sugar a day, but when that ran out the drug agency titrated me on 80mg of Methadone. 23 fucking years of torture and slavery. OK now i am clean, still sick. 26 days with no Opiate, but still struggling on a little VAl. The system has got it wrong. The greed of the Man at the so called top, stigmatizes the so called little Man into believing that he is inferior. Like telling a child that they are useless and will not make anything of there life. In the end the poor child believes it. To be used and abused as a child only leads you to believe that that is the way to live life and get the most from it. The truth is lost in darkness and the person believes that if they self destruct enough they will live.
Scenario, Take 700Mic of Acid and then have a panic attack. What you got to do to keep your head from disappearing up your backside, Take, flood the system with vit c and Amino acids and you will hit rock bottom within about 45 mins. Now the person who comes off Methadone or any Opiate must learn that there body does not know how to take on board what it needs to stand. If the Addict does not know how to listen to his body he will collapse and feel like he is going to die.
Retardant withdrawal last many years, but if you are obedient to your body you get there faster.
Iboga has helped me to do this. Instead of having to fight to teach my body for nearly a year how to eat drink and sleep.
Damage limitation is OK, but why not just Frontal Lobotomise the Addict completely with Chemical Coshes and ignore them. Well that is just what Methadone does. You just as well have the op and also be castrated at the same time. Slavery. Low self esteem could be the root of the problem in the first place, but i doubt is, as as a child before experimentation, I only wanted to have fun and go for long bike rides and have adventures and go fishing.
Methadone killed all of that and flat lined me.
I only had a small habit, which was dealt with, with a prehistoric tool, just so I would be quiet.
Well I am sorry folks, but i ain’t dead yet. So you people of the so called Revolution. WAKEUP. GGET YOUR HEADS OUT OF THE SAND AND TAKE STOCK OF WHAT YOU REALLY HAVE. stop MOANING ABOUT WHAT YOU CANNOT HAVE AND BE GREATFULL FOR WHAT YOU DO HAVE. do WHAT THOU WILL SHOULD BE THE WHOLE OF THE LAW TO YOU. do NOT COVET THY NAIBOURS GOODS. and LIVE A WHOLE AND MORAL LIFE AS YOU SEE FIT. JUDGE AND BE JUDGED.
if PEOPLE WANT TO THROW CRAP ABOUT ON THIS SIGHT THEY MUST REMEMBER THAT THEY NOT ONLY ANSWER TO THEMSELVES, BUT ALSO TO GOD AND THERE FELLOW MAN. create NO WARFARE AND THOU SHALL NOT GET WAFARE IN RETURN.
sorry FOLKS FO THE INTENSITY OF THIS WORD, BUT I HAVE BEEN PUSHED AND SHOVED AND USED BY THE SO CALLED CARING SYSTEM ALL MY LIFE, AND NOW WHEN I TAKE BACK CONTROL FO MYSELF, I ONLY GET FEAR IN RETURN.
this IS THE TRUE ROOT OF THE PROBLEM OF WHY AN ADDICT CANNOT RECOVER PROPRLY.
tHE DAMN SYSTEM IS TOO TIGHT TO FEED THEM POPERLY. hOW COME THE mONKS IN THIALAND KNOW WHAT THEY ARE DOING, AND THERE SECRET MUST BE A MEMBER OF THE VINE OF LIFE. JUST NOT IBOGA. SAME MOLOCULE THOUGH. THE ANCIENT WAYS HAVE BEEN WITH MAN SINCE THE BEGINNING OF TIME. SO BY TAKING IBOGA, ONE IS NOT SWAPING ONE ADDICTION FOR ANOTHER, BUT ALLOWING ONES-SELF TO TAKE STOCK AND REFRESH. dRINK THE WATER, EAT THE GOOD FOOD AND SLEEP AND RECOVER.
aLL THE REST IS BULLSHIT. HERE IS COMPLETE BULSHIT. i AM TRYING TO BUST THE BENZOS. I ABSTAINED FOR NINE DAYS AND THEN COLLAPSED AND NEARLY FITTED. WHEN I REQUIRED MELATONIN I WENT TO LOOK AND AQUIRE AND THE FRIGGIN GOVENMENT HAS MADE IT ELIGAL. 2 WEEKS AGO. SO I HAVE GOT TO PUT UP WITH A NUMB AND COLD BODY AND A SCEAMING HEAD, JUST COS I AIN’T FILTHY RICH.
FISH MONGES ARE HONOURABLE LIKE MOST TRADES MEN, BUT MONY MONGERS ARE FULL OF SHIT AND HOLD NO HEAT FELT COMPASION. i CANNOT EVEN GET THE DAMN STUFF PROSCRIBED ME BY MY OWN DOCTORR, UNLESS I GO TO HARLEY STREET AND PAY 500 QUID.
tHIS IS WHAT STICKS IN MY CRAW.
INTELIGENCE SAYS WHAT TO USE AND WHAT FOR, BUT BECAUSE YOU ARE SEEN AS SO CALLED UNKNOWLEDGABLE, YOU GET FUCKED. THERE IS NOTHING UNKNOWLEDGABLE ABOUT DAMAGE LIMITATION. SO WHY ALL THE FEAR, WHEN A LITTLE MAN AS MYSELF WANTS TO TAKE BACK CONTROL.
PEACE ENOUGH FOR NOW. PRAY READ AND DIGEST YOU SO CALLED PEOPLE OF KNOWLEDGE THAT HAVE NEVER TOOK IBOGA OR ANY SUBSTANCES IN YOUR LIFE.
HOW THE FUCK CAN YOU SAY YOU HAVE WORN THE T-SHIRT AND SEE, WHEN YOU HAVEN’T EVEN GOT THE MONEY FOR THE BUS TO GO SHOPPING WITH IN THE FIST PLACE
tHANKYOU AND BLESSINGS TO ALL THAT KNOW AND HERE AND SEE.

STRENGHT, POWE HONOUR SHALL LEAD YOU TO RESPECT YOURSELF.
PAUL:)~”’

In a way I wouldn’t like to do to others what I would not want to be done
to me,
if I were in the same position.

Sara’

Spot on Darling!!!

_________________________________________________________________
Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today – it’s FREE! http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: “Billy J” <billjohnson6@sympatico.ca>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] (OT!!!!!) Re: [Ibogaine] : Git?Pro-Life?
Date: April 6, 2006 at 9:51:07 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

hey Preston,
Homophob here,
just a rebuttal.
I would just like to make it clear about spreading hatred, It is WORDS, that do that, Here I am a unrecovered Drug addict,trying (not that hard I guess) to get staight, and when someone says nasty things about ?? I have a Hard time to get them out of my so simple brain.
I definetly and honestly do not mean any DISRESPECT to Dana, and I am sorry If I came across that way, You see I am learning how to communicate and trying to make a little differance in my little world, So back on topic,
Can we try to hold the name calling down a notch, it gets to be rather personal, and I do not need any excuse to be a GIT ( new word for me today), I am wjat I am and if it means to be a shield for a fellow human being (not a animal but a 2 legged) then so be it.
Dana I would gladly CLIC on an effort to help stop ANY bloodshed or any Lying Fascist or what have you, but I would just like to see people realize that if I am at least TRYING and they are trying then it (any good effort) would mor likely be won with a little honey rather than  vinager.
One more thing, If I am Pro-Life (I think that is reffering to helping someone stay alive) and you are Pro-Choice, (technically meaning doing away with a Blob?Baby?Feotus?) Would it not be logical that I would be the one that doesn’t want to see People die in Iraq?, and you would technically say that George W Bush can choose (with his Cronies) anything they want and it is his right?
You see (I am now shaking) It is really starting to look like WHAT IS WRONG HAS BECOME RIGHT AND WHAT IS RIGHT IS NOW WRONG??
Lets just keep looking for answers and try to word things in such a way to direct people to do good and not be totally influenced by someone that may appear to have more intelligence than they.
And thanks for the article.

I am hear to get a life and not loose it.
I want to get off dope and to stop being a dope so If I ever am wrong (as I think I was in my previous words) then please try to remember that I was born Human.

Have a Great day Preston.
and Have you taken  Ibogaine Yet, If so are you clean today?

Billy The human today
(finally got my Meth 45 minutes ago)
—-Original Message Follows—-
From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] (OT!!!!!) Re: [Ibogaine] Support our London contingent: Git?
Date: Thu, 6 Apr 2006 09:20:51 -0400
MIME-Version: 1.0
Received: from tomts42-srv.bellnexxia.net ([209.226.175.99]) by bay0-pamc1-f11.bay0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Thu, 6 Apr 2006 06:19:55 -0700
Received: from toip1.bellnexxia.net ([209.226.175.84])          by tomts42-srv.bellnexxia.net          (InterMail vM.5.01.06.13 201-253-122-130-113-20050324) with ESMTP          id <20060406131955.DCLU20580.tomts42-srv.bellnexxia.net@toip1.bellnexxia.net>          for <billjohnson6@sympatico.ca>; Thu, 6 Apr 2006 09:19:55 -0400
Received: from tanelorn.mindvox.com (HELO mail.mindvox.com) ([64.124.179.118])  by toip1.bellnexxia.net with ESMTP; 06 Apr 2006 09:19:54 -0400
Received: (qmail 25507 invoked by uid 513); 6 Apr 2006 09:19:52 -0400
Received: (qmail 25501 invoked by uid 514); 6 Apr 2006 09:19:52 -0400
X-Message-Info: moY6YVwXQ44yyPuAUZLw08e03HuNt3nhxkkL66rVAVA=
Mailing-List: contact ibogaine-help@mindvox.com; run by ezmlm
Precedence: bulk
X-No-Archive: yes
List-Post: <mailto:ibogaine@mindvox.com>
List-Help: <mailto:ibogaine-help@mindvox.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:ibogaine-unsubscribe@mindvox.com>
List-Subscribe: <mailto:ibogaine-subscribe@mindvox.com>
Delivered-To: mailing list ibogaine@mindvox.com
X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.3 required=4.0
X-Antivirus-MYDOMAIN-Mail-From: ptpeet@nyc.rr.com via tanelorn.mindvox.com
X-Antivirus-MYDOMAIN: 1.25-st-qms (Clear:RC:0(24.29.109.7):SA:0(-2.3/4.0):. Processed in 6.794963 secs Process 25436)
References: <BAY16-F16812DB114393C87E993D3FDC80@phx.gbl>
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180
X-Virus-Scanned: Symantec AntiVirus Scan Engine
Return-Path: ibogaine-return-23421-billjohnson6=sympatico.ca@mindvox.com
X-OriginalArrivalTime: 06 Apr 2006 13:19:55.0953 (UTC) FILETIME=[CBF8BA10:01C6597C]

Hi all,
While I feel pretty strongly about the whole food issue, at least we’ve managed to stay fairly civil towards one another, not to metion fairly rational and polite. The below dreck from “pro-life” Billy though, I couldn’t let slide by without a comment, as far off topic as it appears to be.

that spread hatred and excuse for our soldiers and other
people that are standing up for us to get KILLED. You would be the first to
let the enemy know where our troops are so they could get killed and then
say It Was George Bush That did it.<

Wait a minute- besides the above being total bullshit, Bush et all have indeed lied repeatedly about the reasons for warring on the innocent living, breathing civilians living in Iraq (and elsewhere and lied about so much more too), Iraqis who were/are no threat to us here in the US at all in any way, shape or form (except to those making oodles of money off oil and war of course)- or once living but now murdered by warmongering bloodthirsty killers and liars- and that’d be the anti-war folks’ fault? LOL, egad!
When exactly did Dana spread hate that resulted in more bombs being dropped, less money going to social programs here at home to help care for our fellow right-now-alive-as-we-speak neighbors and friends and citizens, and yet more money going to bomb/gun/deathcontraption manufacturers? I can think of many instances whereby our “president” did lie and the results were those enummerated above.
I do consider you a homophobe or a bigot if you come out saying homosexuality was/is “wrong” or sinful Billy.
And how is our protesting the evil War on Iraq getting our soldiers killed, and how exactly are they standing up for “us” by killing Iraqis or being killed by Iraqis? This is a rhetorical question actually, as it’s already more than clear that you are totally supportive of the warmongering and killing going on in our names. Unless, as you’ve made abundantly clear, it’s of not-yet-born fetuses of course.
I’m posting the (very brief) except below, just in case you not only CAN read (and critically think) but bother to do so on occasion:

http://news.nationaljournal.com/articles/0330nj1.htm

Insulating Bush
By Murray Waas, National Journal
Š National Journal Group Inc.
Thursday, March 30, 2006
Karl Rove, President Bush’s chief political adviser, cautioned other White House aides in the summer of 2003 that Bush’s 2004 re-election prospects would be severely damaged if it was publicly disclosed that he had been personally warned that a key rationale for going to war had been challenged within the administration. Rove expressed his concerns shortly after an informal review of classified government records by then-Deputy National Security Adviser Stephen J. Hadley determined that Bush had been specifically advised that claims he later made in his 2003 State of the Union address — that Iraq was procuring high-strength aluminum tubes to build a nuclear weapon — might not be true, according to government records and interviews.
Hadley was particularly concerned that the public might learn of a classified one-page summary of a National Intelligence Estimate, specifically written for Bush in October 2002. The summary said that although “most agencies judge” that the aluminum tubes were “related to a uranium enrichment effort,” the State Department’s Bureau of Intelligence and Research and the Energy Department’s intelligence branch “believe that the tubes more likely are intended for conventional weapons.”
Three months after receiving that assessment, the president stated without qualification in his January 28, 2003, State of the Union address: “The British government has learned that Saddam Hussein recently sought significant quantities of uranium from Africa. Our intelligence sources tell us that he has attempted to purchase high-strength aluminum tubes suitable for nuclear weapons production.”
The previously undisclosed review by Hadley was part of a damage-control effort launched after former Ambassador Joseph C. Wilson IV alleged that Bush’s claims regarding the uranium were not true. The CIA had sent Wilson to the African nation of Niger in 2002 to investigate the purported procurement efforts by Iraq; he reported that they were most likely a hoax.
The White House was largely successful in defusing the Niger controversy because there was no evidence that Bush was aware that his claims about the uranium were based on faulty intelligence. Then-CIA Director George Tenet swiftly and publicly took the blame for the entire episode, saying that he and the CIA were at fault for not warning Bush and his aides that the information might be untrue.
But Hadley and other administration officials realized that it would be much more difficult to shield Bush from criticism for his statements regarding the aluminum tubes, for several reasons.
For one, Hadley’s review concluded that Bush had been directly and repeatedly apprised of the deep rift within the intelligence community over whether Iraq wanted the high-strength aluminum tubes for a nuclear weapons program or for conventional weapons.
For another, the president and others in the administration had cited the aluminum tubes as the most compelling evidence that Saddam was determined to build a nuclear weapon — even more than the allegations that he was attempting to purchase uranium.
And finally, full disclosure of the internal dissent over the importance of the tubes would have almost certainly raised broader questions about the administration’s conduct in the months leading up to war.
“Presidential knowledge was the ball game,” says a former senior government official outside the White House who was personally familiar with the damage-control effort. “The mission was to insulate the president. It was about making it appear that he wasn’t in the know. You could do that on Niger. You couldn’t do that with the tubes.” A Republican political appointee involved in the process, who thought the Bush administration had a constitutional obligation to be more open with Congress, said: “This was about getting past the election.”
snip-
Thank goodness folk like Bush (a facist through and through, just like all his supporters are at heart) are looking out for (HIS and HIS FRIENDS and FELLOW FACISTS’) “our” best interests. Whew. So, can you please explain why it’s those we “elected” to represent us who keep legislating away our constitutionally guarenteed rights, and when exactly the “terrorists” have done the same? Thanks kindly.

—–
“If God dropped acid, would he see people?”  ~Steven Wright

Peace, love and lotsof respect.
Preston Peet
ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor Underground- the Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations, Astonishing Archaeology and Hidden History
Editor Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Columnist HighTimes mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —– From: “Billy J” <billjohnson6@sympatico.ca>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Thursday, April 06, 2006 8:33 AM
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Support our London contingent: Git?

I am on my way to work but I just read this 1st e-mail about Fascists and George Bush and ???

Dana, I do not call myself anything as far as right or left fascist or otherwise, BUT WHY DO PEOPLE LIKE YOURSELF LABLE OTHERS WHO DO NOT AGRREE WITH YOU? oR EVEN IF SOMEONE JUST WANTS WHAT IS BEST FOR all that is on this planet and they do the best thay can, yet fall Short due to iether being misinformed or they just make mistakes or who knows.??

You see just because I do not agree with Homosex- You would call me a Homophobic Right? Without even asking me about the many people in my life and or my own personal experiences with some of these people!!  Thats being a GIT Yes?
Or if I think its OK for a Woman to Raise her own Kids, as aposed to sending them to be raised at a daycare- then I am a Male Shovanist >> Right?
Or – Abortion, So I believe that as soon as conception happens that life has started ,So I am A PRO LIFER- and I hate every body that doesn’t agree with me _ That is simply not true, yet you (I am Just ging by your disrespect towards the USA’s President) People continue to turn anything that is done by people in power that have been elected, by the people (That was fixed too I guess) No I am just soo soo sooo SICK of people with your type of attitude ( and that does not mean that you do not mean well, you are just voicing your free opinion) that spread hatred and excuse for our soldiers and other people that are standing up for us to get KILLED. You would be the first to let the enemy know where our troops are so they could get killed and then say It Was George Bush That did it.
When in fact it was the spread of hatred that did it, and who started and kept the hatred going?
YOU did.
But if you could start something with the foundation being LOVE then you would win! Love always
Win.
Have a GREAT DAY
Bill
P.S. No more hate
—-Original Message Follows—-
From: Dana Beal <dana@phantom.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] Support our London contingent: CLICK
Date: Wed, 5 Apr 2006 20:16:28 -0400
MIME-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v746.2)
Received: from tomts11-srv.bellnexxia.net ([209.226.175.55]) by bay0-pamc1-f9.bay0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Wed, 5 Apr 2006 17:16:50 -0700
Received: from toip3.bellnexxia.net ([209.226.175.86])          by tomts11-srv.bellnexxia.net          (InterMail vM.5.01.06.13 201-253-122-130-113-20050324) with ESMTP          id <20060406001906.HIUC6620.tomts11-srv.bellnexxia.net@toip3.bellnexxia.net> for <billjohnson6@sympatico.ca>; Wed, 5 Apr 2006 20:19:06 -0400
Received: from tanelorn.mindvox.com (HELO mail.mindvox.com) ([64.124.179.118])  by toip3.bellnexxia.net with ESMTP; 05 Apr 2006 20:16:49 -0400
Received: (qmail 14106 invoked by uid 513); 5 Apr 2006 20:16:46 -0400
Received: (qmail 14100 invoked by uid 514); 5 Apr 2006 20:16:46 -0400
X-Message-Info: moY6YVwXQ47qLg4LlXQ6I5Vh2VQ2noEBuJYLlXaU7Hw=
Mailing-List: contact ibogaine-help@mindvox.com; run by ezmlm
Precedence: bulk
X-No-Archive: yes
List-Post: <mailto:ibogaine@mindvox.com>
List-Help: <mailto:ibogaine-help@mindvox.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:ibogaine-unsubscribe@mindvox.com>
List-Subscribe: <mailto:ibogaine-subscribe@mindvox.com>
Delivered-To: mailing list ibogaine@mindvox.com
X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.6 required=4.0
X-Antivirus-MYDOMAIN-Mail-From: dana@phantom.com via tanelorn.mindvox.com
X-Antivirus-MYDOMAIN: 1.25-st-qms (Clear:RC:0(209.51.166.17):SA:0(-2.6/4.0):. Processed in 7.106419 secs Process 14075)
X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.746.2)
Return-Path: ibogaine-return-23396-billjohnson6=sympatico.ca@mindvox.com
X-OriginalArrivalTime: 06 Apr 2006 00:16:50.0629 (UTC) FILETIME=[66893F50:01C6590F]

direct action: ‘click against a git’ campaign – drugs,
sex, football, anarchy

AS you probally know the ‘blogosphere’ is populated by
large numbers of racist, facist, nazi loonies who get
millions of hits.

‘Schmoo On the Run’ which promotes peace, love and
ibogaine, is listed against them, and currently stands
at No 150 out of thousands, but the fascist, George
Bush loving, wannabe consentration guards, and fake
anarchists are still ahead!

But you can make a difference: you can ‘CLICK AGAINST
A GIT’ by hitting ‘schmoon on the run’ on a
daily/weekly/monthly/yearly basis. Bookmarx this
revolution now! http://schmoontherun.blogspot.com

You don’t have to read our daily exclusive ‘drugs,
sex, football’ analysis of world events, essential to
your survival.

All you have to do is ‘Click against a Git’, and you
could help stop the ozone hole above you getting
bigger by changing world opinion.

Rember: drugs, sex, football, anarchy; click againt a
git.

http://schmoontherun.blogspot.com

‘Ta muchley’ (as they say in london).

Note: A ‘git’ is an ‘idiot’ in London English.

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]

\]=———————————————————————=[/

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]

\]=———————————————————————=[/

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: “Paul Brookshaw” <jiggy9@hotmail.co.uk>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] The truth hurts but will set you free!!!
Date: April 6, 2006 at 9:36:26 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi all,
Well i got to add my opinion to all of this i just read. Firstly, a lot of people myself included did not take Heroin, because of low self esteem. It was a kick culture thing. Where i grew up it was the thing to kick back at the system and be an outlaw. It was fun.
The fun stopped when the Dragon grabbed me by the bollocks and then shook my Monkey to pieces. Then out of fear I ran to someone who I thought would know what to do. I was only using a Quarter of a grain of Sugar a day, but when that ran out the drug agency titrated me on 80mg of Methadone. 23 fucking years of torture and slavery. OK now i am clean, still sick. 26 days with no Opiate, but still struggling on a little VAl. The system has got it wrong. The greed of the Man at the so called top, stigmatizes the so called little Man into believing that he is inferior. Like telling a child that they are useless and will not make anything of there life. In the end the poor child believes it. To be used and abused as a child only leads you to believe that that is the way to live life and get the most from it. The truth is lost in darkness and the person believes that if they self destruct enough they will live.
Scenario, Take 700Mic of Acid and then have a panic attack. What you got to do to keep your head from disappearing up your backside, Take, flood the system with vit c and Amino acids and you will hit rock bottom within about 45 mins. Now the person who comes off Methadone or any Opiate must learn that there body does not know how to take on board what it needs to stand. If the Addict does not know how to listen to his body he will collapse and feel like he is going to die.
Retardant withdrawal last many years, but if you are obedient to your body you get there faster.
Iboga has helped me to do this. Instead of having to fight to teach my body for nearly a year how to eat drink and sleep.
Damage limitation is OK, but why not just Frontal Lobotomise the Addict completely with Chemical Coshes and ignore them. Well that is just what Methadone does. You just as well have the op and also be castrated at the same time. Slavery. Low self esteem could be the root of the problem in the first place, but i doubt is, as as a child before experimentation, I only wanted to have fun and go for long bike rides and have adventures and go fishing.
Methadone killed all of that and flat lined me.
I only had a small habit, which was dealt with, with a prehistoric tool, just so I would be quiet.
Well I am sorry folks, but i ain’t dead yet. So you people of the so called Revolution. WAKEUP. GGET YOUR HEADS OUT OF THE SAND AND TAKE STOCK OF WHAT YOU REALLY HAVE. stop MOANING ABOUT WHAT YOU CANNOT HAVE AND BE GREATFULL FOR WHAT YOU DO HAVE. do WHAT THOU WILL SHOULD BE THE WHOLE OF THE LAW TO YOU. do NOT COVET THY NAIBOURS GOODS. and LIVE A WHOLE AND MORAL LIFE AS YOU SEE FIT. JUDGE AND BE JUDGED.
if PEOPLE WANT TO THROW CRAP ABOUT ON THIS SIGHT THEY MUST REMEMBER THAT THEY NOT ONLY ANSWER TO THEMSELVES, BUT ALSO TO GOD AND THERE FELLOW MAN. create NO WARFARE AND THOU SHALL NOT GET WAFARE IN RETURN.
sorry FOLKS FO THE INTENSITY OF THIS WORD, BUT I HAVE BEEN PUSHED AND SHOVED AND USED BY THE SO CALLED CARING SYSTEM ALL MY LIFE, AND NOW WHEN I TAKE BACK CONTROL FO MYSELF, I ONLY GET FEAR IN RETURN.
this IS THE TRUE ROOT OF THE PROBLEM OF WHY AN ADDICT CANNOT RECOVER PROPRLY.
tHE DAMN SYSTEM IS TOO TIGHT TO FEED THEM POPERLY. hOW COME THE mONKS IN THIALAND KNOW WHAT THEY ARE DOING, AND THERE SECRET MUST BE A MEMBER OF THE VINE OF LIFE. JUST NOT IBOGA. SAME MOLOCULE THOUGH. THE ANCIENT WAYS HAVE BEEN WITH MAN SINCE THE BEGINNING OF TIME. SO BY TAKING IBOGA, ONE IS NOT SWAPING ONE ADDICTION FOR ANOTHER, BUT ALLOWING ONES-SELF TO TAKE STOCK AND REFRESH. dRINK THE WATER, EAT THE GOOD FOOD AND SLEEP AND RECOVER.
aLL THE REST IS BULLSHIT. HERE IS COMPLETE BULSHIT. i AM TRYING TO BUST THE BENZOS. I ABSTAINED FOR NINE DAYS AND THEN COLLAPSED AND NEARLY FITTED. WHEN I REQUIRED MELATONIN I WENT TO LOOK AND AQUIRE AND THE FRIGGIN GOVENMENT HAS MADE IT ELIGAL. 2 WEEKS AGO. SO I HAVE GOT TO PUT UP WITH A NUMB AND COLD BODY AND A SCEAMING HEAD, JUST COS I AIN’T FILTHY RICH.
FISH MONGES ARE HONOURABLE LIKE MOST TRADES MEN, BUT MONY MONGERS ARE FULL OF SHIT AND HOLD NO HEAT FELT COMPASION. i CANNOT EVEN GET THE DAMN STUFF PROSCRIBED ME BY MY OWN DOCTORR, UNLESS I GO TO HARLEY STREET AND PAY 500 QUID.
tHIS IS WHAT STICKS IN MY CRAW.
INTELIGENCE SAYS WHAT TO USE AND WHAT FOR, BUT BECAUSE YOU ARE SEEN AS SO CALLED UNKNOWLEDGABLE, YOU GET FUCKED. THERE IS NOTHING UNKNOWLEDGABLE ABOUT DAMAGE LIMITATION. SO WHY ALL THE FEAR, WHEN A LITTLE MAN AS MYSELF WANTS TO TAKE BACK CONTROL.
PEACE ENOUGH FOR NOW. PRAY READ AND DIGEST YOU SO CALLED PEOPLE OF KNOWLEDGE THAT HAVE NEVER TOOK IBOGA OR ANY SUBSTANCES IN YOUR LIFE.
HOW THE FUCK CAN YOU SAY YOU HAVE WORN THE T-SHIRT AND SEE, WHEN YOU HAVEN’T EVEN GOT THE MONEY FOR THE BUS TO GO SHOPPING WITH IN THE FIST PLACE
tHANKYOU AND BLESSINGS TO ALL THAT KNOW AND HERE AND SEE.

STRENGHT, POWE HONOUR SHALL LEAD YOU TO RESPECT YOURSELF.
PAUL:)~”’

In a way I wouldn’t like to do to others what I would not want to be done
to me,
if I were in the same position.

Sara’

Spot on Darling!!!

_________________________________________________________________
Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today – it’s FREE! http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] (OT!!!!!) Re: [Ibogaine] Support our London contingent: Git?
Date: April 6, 2006 at 9:20:51 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi all,
While I feel pretty strongly about the whole food issue, at least we’ve managed to stay fairly civil towards one another, not to metion fairly rational and polite. The below dreck from “pro-life” Billy though, I couldn’t let slide by without a comment, as far off topic as it appears to be.

that spread hatred and excuse for our soldiers and other
people that are standing up for us to get KILLED. You would be the first to
let the enemy know where our troops are so they could get killed and then
say It Was George Bush That did it.<

Wait a minute- besides the above being total bullshit, Bush et all have indeed lied repeatedly about the reasons for warring on the innocent living, breathing civilians living in Iraq (and elsewhere and lied about so much more too), Iraqis who were/are no threat to us here in the US at all in any way, shape or form (except to those making oodles of money off oil and war of course)- or once living but now murdered by warmongering bloodthirsty killers and liars- and that’d be the anti-war folks’ fault? LOL, egad!
When exactly did Dana spread hate that resulted in more bombs being dropped, less money going to social programs here at home to help care for our fellow right-now-alive-as-we-speak neighbors and friends and citizens, and yet more money going to bomb/gun/deathcontraption manufacturers? I can think of many instances whereby our “president” did lie and the results were those enummerated above.
I do consider you a homophobe or a bigot if you come out saying homosexuality was/is “wrong” or sinful Billy.
And how is our protesting the evil War on Iraq getting our soldiers killed, and how exactly are they standing up for “us” by killing Iraqis or being killed by Iraqis? This is a rhetorical question actually, as it’s already more than clear that you are totally supportive of the warmongering and killing going on in our names. Unless, as you’ve made abundantly clear, it’s of not-yet-born fetuses of course.
I’m posting the (very brief) except below, just in case you not only CAN read (and critically think) but bother to do so on occasion:

http://news.nationaljournal.com/articles/0330nj1.htm

Insulating Bush
By Murray Waas, National Journal
© National Journal Group Inc.
Thursday, March 30, 2006
Karl Rove, President Bush’s chief political adviser, cautioned other White House aides in the summer of 2003 that Bush’s 2004 re-election prospects would be severely damaged if it was publicly disclosed that he had been personally warned that a key rationale for going to war had been challenged within the administration. Rove expressed his concerns shortly after an informal review of classified government records by then-Deputy National Security Adviser Stephen J. Hadley determined that Bush had been specifically advised that claims he later made in his 2003 State of the Union address — that Iraq was procuring high-strength aluminum tubes to build a nuclear weapon — might not be true, according to government records and interviews.
Hadley was particularly concerned that the public might learn of a classified one-page summary of a National Intelligence Estimate, specifically written for Bush in October 2002. The summary said that although “most agencies judge” that the aluminum tubes were “related to a uranium enrichment effort,” the State Department’s Bureau of Intelligence and Research and the Energy Department’s intelligence branch “believe that the tubes more likely are intended for conventional weapons.”
Three months after receiving that assessment, the president stated without qualification in his January 28, 2003, State of the Union address: “The British government has learned that Saddam Hussein recently sought significant quantities of uranium from Africa. Our intelligence sources tell us that he has attempted to purchase high-strength aluminum tubes suitable for nuclear weapons production.”
The previously undisclosed review by Hadley was part of a damage-control effort launched after former Ambassador Joseph C. Wilson IV alleged that Bush’s claims regarding the uranium were not true. The CIA had sent Wilson to the African nation of Niger in 2002 to investigate the purported procurement efforts by Iraq; he reported that they were most likely a hoax.
The White House was largely successful in defusing the Niger controversy because there was no evidence that Bush was aware that his claims about the uranium were based on faulty intelligence. Then-CIA Director George Tenet swiftly and publicly took the blame for the entire episode, saying that he and the CIA were at fault for not warning Bush and his aides that the information might be untrue.
But Hadley and other administration officials realized that it would be much more difficult to shield Bush from criticism for his statements regarding the aluminum tubes, for several reasons.
For one, Hadley’s review concluded that Bush had been directly and repeatedly apprised of the deep rift within the intelligence community over whether Iraq wanted the high-strength aluminum tubes for a nuclear weapons program or for conventional weapons.
For another, the president and others in the administration had cited the aluminum tubes as the most compelling evidence that Saddam was determined to build a nuclear weapon — even more than the allegations that he was attempting to purchase uranium.
And finally, full disclosure of the internal dissent over the importance of the tubes would have almost certainly raised broader questions about the administration’s conduct in the months leading up to war.
“Presidential knowledge was the ball game,” says a former senior government official outside the White House who was personally familiar with the damage-control effort. “The mission was to insulate the president. It was about making it appear that he wasn’t in the know. You could do that on Niger. You couldn’t do that with the tubes.” A Republican political appointee involved in the process, who thought the Bush administration had a constitutional obligation to be more open with Congress, said: “This was about getting past the election.”
snip-
Thank goodness folk like Bush (a facist through and through, just like all his supporters are at heart) are looking out for (HIS and HIS FRIENDS and FELLOW FACISTS’) “our” best interests. Whew. So, can you please explain why it’s those we “elected” to represent us who keep legislating away our constitutionally guarenteed rights, and when exactly the “terrorists” have done the same? Thanks kindly.

—–
“If God dropped acid, would he see people?”  ~Steven Wright

Peace, love and lotsof respect.
Preston Peet
ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor Underground- the Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations, Astonishing Archaeology and Hidden History
Editor Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Columnist HighTimes mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —– From: “Billy J” <billjohnson6@sympatico.ca>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Thursday, April 06, 2006 8:33 AM
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Support our London contingent: Git?

I am on my way to work but I just read this 1st e-mail about Fascists and George Bush and ???

Dana, I do not call myself anything as far as right or left fascist or otherwise, BUT WHY DO PEOPLE LIKE YOURSELF LABLE OTHERS WHO DO NOT AGRREE WITH YOU? oR EVEN IF SOMEONE JUST WANTS WHAT IS BEST FOR all that is on this planet and they do the best thay can, yet fall Short due to iether being misinformed or they just make mistakes or who knows.??

You see just because I do not agree with Homosex- You would call me a Homophobic Right? Without even asking me about the many people in my life and or my own personal experiences with some of these people!!  Thats being a GIT Yes?
Or if I think its OK for a Woman to Raise her own Kids, as aposed to sending them to be raised at a daycare- then I am a Male Shovanist >> Right?
Or – Abortion, So I believe that as soon as conception happens that life has started ,So I am A PRO LIFER- and I hate every body that doesn’t agree with me _ That is simply not true, yet you (I am Just ging by your disrespect towards the USA’s President) People continue to turn anything that is done by people in power that have been elected, by the people (That was fixed too I guess) No I am just soo soo sooo SICK of people with your type of attitude ( and that does not mean that you do not mean well, you are just voicing your free opinion) that spread hatred and excuse for our soldiers and other people that are standing up for us to get KILLED. You would be the first to let the enemy know where our troops are so they could get killed and then say It Was George Bush That did it.
When in fact it was the spread of hatred that did it, and who started and kept the hatred going?
YOU did.
But if you could start something with the foundation being LOVE then you would win! Love always
Win.
Have a GREAT DAY
Bill
P.S. No more hate
—-Original Message Follows—-
From: Dana Beal <dana@phantom.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] Support our London contingent: CLICK
Date: Wed, 5 Apr 2006 20:16:28 -0400
MIME-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v746.2)
Received: from tomts11-srv.bellnexxia.net ([209.226.175.55]) by bay0-pamc1-f9.bay0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Wed, 5 Apr 2006 17:16:50 -0700
Received: from toip3.bellnexxia.net ([209.226.175.86])          by tomts11-srv.bellnexxia.net          (InterMail vM.5.01.06.13 201-253-122-130-113-20050324) with ESMTP          id <20060406001906.HIUC6620.tomts11-srv.bellnexxia.net@toip3.bellnexxia.net> for <billjohnson6@sympatico.ca>; Wed, 5 Apr 2006 20:19:06 -0400
Received: from tanelorn.mindvox.com (HELO mail.mindvox.com) ([64.124.179.118])  by toip3.bellnexxia.net with ESMTP; 05 Apr 2006 20:16:49 -0400
Received: (qmail 14106 invoked by uid 513); 5 Apr 2006 20:16:46 -0400
Received: (qmail 14100 invoked by uid 514); 5 Apr 2006 20:16:46 -0400
X-Message-Info: moY6YVwXQ47qLg4LlXQ6I5Vh2VQ2noEBuJYLlXaU7Hw=
Mailing-List: contact ibogaine-help@mindvox.com; run by ezmlm
Precedence: bulk
X-No-Archive: yes
List-Post: <mailto:ibogaine@mindvox.com>
List-Help: <mailto:ibogaine-help@mindvox.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:ibogaine-unsubscribe@mindvox.com>
List-Subscribe: <mailto:ibogaine-subscribe@mindvox.com>
Delivered-To: mailing list ibogaine@mindvox.com
X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.6 required=4.0
X-Antivirus-MYDOMAIN-Mail-From: dana@phantom.com via tanelorn.mindvox.com
X-Antivirus-MYDOMAIN: 1.25-st-qms (Clear:RC:0(209.51.166.17):SA:0(-2.6/4.0):. Processed in 7.106419 secs Process 14075)
X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.746.2)
Return-Path: ibogaine-return-23396-billjohnson6=sympatico.ca@mindvox.com
X-OriginalArrivalTime: 06 Apr 2006 00:16:50.0629 (UTC) FILETIME=[66893F50:01C6590F]

direct action: ‘click against a git’ campaign – drugs,
sex, football, anarchy

AS you probally know the ‘blogosphere’ is populated by
large numbers of racist, facist, nazi loonies who get
millions of hits.

‘Schmoo On the Run’ which promotes peace, love and
ibogaine, is listed against them, and currently stands
at No 150 out of thousands, but the fascist, George
Bush loving, wannabe consentration guards, and fake
anarchists are still ahead!

But you can make a difference: you can ‘CLICK AGAINST
A GIT’ by hitting ‘schmoon on the run’ on a
daily/weekly/monthly/yearly basis. Bookmarx this
revolution now! http://schmoontherun.blogspot.com

You don’t have to read our daily exclusive ‘drugs,
sex, football’ analysis of world events, essential to
your survival.

All you have to do is ‘Click against a Git’, and you
could help stop the ozone hole above you getting
bigger by changing world opinion.

Rember: drugs, sex, football, anarchy; click againt a
git.

http://schmoontherun.blogspot.com

‘Ta muchley’ (as they say in london).

Note: A ‘git’ is an ‘idiot’ in London English.

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: “Ann B. Mullikin” <think@francomm.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Australian ibogaine article
Date: April 6, 2006 at 9:15:07 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Thank you so much Howard.  I see at the bottom of the article that its OK to copy and redistribute for non-commercial uses?

My youngest son who was a manager on the night shift of the company he then worked for, read the New Scientist journal
on a break time and called me about it the next day.  One of his managers had brought the journal in to work for reading by all who
wanted to read.   I hit the net the next day and started searching.  I am still searching.  Randy was sick at the time and I went
and got him to nurse him back to physical health (I am a nurse).  I introduced him to the net and also the topic:  Ibogaine
He took to it like a duck takes to water.  The rest is history.  🙂

A grateful Momma,
ann
think@francomm.com

—– Original Message —–
From: HSLotsof@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Wednesday, April 05, 2006 3:59 PM
Subject: [Ibogaine] Australian ibogaine article

Australian ibogaine article

http://www.melbourne.indymedia.org/news/2006/02/106537.php

From: jon <jon@mindvox.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] What is a cbgb’s gig
Date: April 6, 2006 at 8:34:51 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Crooked Eye wrote:
CBGB is some kind of club or something and BTW means by the way

Yeah… CBGB’s is a club in NYC that’s been pretty central to the development of a lot modern musical styles… punk, post-punk, new wave, etc. Bands like the Ramones, the Talking Heads, Blondie, etc played some of their first shows there.

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: “Billy J” <billjohnson6@sympatico.ca>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Support our London contingent: Git?
Date: April 6, 2006 at 8:33:25 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I am on my way to work but I just read this 1st e-mail about Fascists and George Bush and ???

Dana, I do not call myself anything as far as right or left fascist or otherwise, BUT WHY DO PEOPLE LIKE YOURSELF LABLE OTHERS WHO DO NOT AGRREE WITH YOU? oR EVEN IF SOMEONE JUST WANTS WHAT IS BEST FOR all that is on this planet and they do the best thay can, yet fall Short due to iether being misinformed or they just make mistakes or who knows.??

You see just because I do not agree with Homosex- You would call me a Homophobic Right? Without even asking me about the many people in my life and or my own personal experiences with some of these people!!  Thats being a GIT Yes?
Or if I think its OK for a Woman to Raise her own Kids, as aposed to sending them to be raised at a daycare- then I am a Male Shovanist >> Right?
Or – Abortion, So I believe that as soon as conception happens that life has started ,So I am A PRO LIFER- and I hate every body that doesn’t agree with me _ That is simply not true, yet you (I am Just ging by your disrespect towards the USA’s President) People continue to turn anything that is done by people in power that have been elected, by the people (That was fixed too I guess) No I am just soo soo sooo SICK of people with your type of attitude ( and that does not mean that you do not mean well, you are just voicing your free opinion) that spread hatred and excuse for our soldiers and other people that are standing up for us to get KILLED. You would be the first to let the enemy know where our troops are so they could get killed and then say It Was George Bush That did it.
When in fact it was the spread of hatred that did it, and who started and kept the hatred going?
YOU did.
But if you could start something with the foundation being LOVE then you would win! Love always
Win.
Have a GREAT DAY
Bill
P.S. No more hate
—-Original Message Follows—-
From: Dana Beal <dana@phantom.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] Support our London contingent: CLICK
Date: Wed, 5 Apr 2006 20:16:28 -0400
MIME-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v746.2)
Received: from tomts11-srv.bellnexxia.net ([209.226.175.55]) by bay0-pamc1-f9.bay0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Wed, 5 Apr 2006 17:16:50 -0700
Received: from toip3.bellnexxia.net ([209.226.175.86])          by tomts11-srv.bellnexxia.net          (InterMail vM.5.01.06.13 201-253-122-130-113-20050324) with ESMTP          id <20060406001906.HIUC6620.tomts11-srv.bellnexxia.net@toip3.bellnexxia.net>          for <billjohnson6@sympatico.ca>; Wed, 5 Apr 2006 20:19:06 -0400
Received: from tanelorn.mindvox.com (HELO mail.mindvox.com) ([64.124.179.118])  by toip3.bellnexxia.net with ESMTP; 05 Apr 2006 20:16:49 -0400
Received: (qmail 14106 invoked by uid 513); 5 Apr 2006 20:16:46 -0400
Received: (qmail 14100 invoked by uid 514); 5 Apr 2006 20:16:46 -0400
X-Message-Info: moY6YVwXQ47qLg4LlXQ6I5Vh2VQ2noEBuJYLlXaU7Hw=
Mailing-List: contact ibogaine-help@mindvox.com; run by ezmlm
Precedence: bulk
X-No-Archive: yes
List-Post: <mailto:ibogaine@mindvox.com>
List-Help: <mailto:ibogaine-help@mindvox.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:ibogaine-unsubscribe@mindvox.com>
List-Subscribe: <mailto:ibogaine-subscribe@mindvox.com>
Delivered-To: mailing list ibogaine@mindvox.com
X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.6 required=4.0
X-Antivirus-MYDOMAIN-Mail-From: dana@phantom.com via tanelorn.mindvox.com
X-Antivirus-MYDOMAIN: 1.25-st-qms (Clear:RC:0(209.51.166.17):SA:0(-2.6/4.0):. Processed in 7.106419 secs Process 14075)
X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.746.2)
Return-Path: ibogaine-return-23396-billjohnson6=sympatico.ca@mindvox.com
X-OriginalArrivalTime: 06 Apr 2006 00:16:50.0629 (UTC) FILETIME=[66893F50:01C6590F]

direct action: ‘click against a git’ campaign – drugs,
sex, football, anarchy

AS you probally know the ‘blogosphere’ is populated by
large numbers of racist, facist, nazi loonies who get
millions of hits.

‘Schmoo On the Run’ which promotes peace, love and
ibogaine, is listed against them, and currently stands
at No 150 out of thousands, but the fascist, George
Bush loving, wannabe consentration guards, and fake
anarchists are still ahead!

But you can make a difference: you can ‘CLICK AGAINST
A GIT’ by hitting ‘schmoon on the run’ on a
daily/weekly/monthly/yearly basis. Bookmarx this
revolution now! http://schmoontherun.blogspot.com

You don’t have to read our daily exclusive ‘drugs,
sex, football’ analysis of world events, essential to
your survival.

All you have to do is ‘Click against a Git’, and you
could help stop the ozone hole above you getting
bigger by changing world opinion.

Rember: drugs, sex, football, anarchy; click againt a
git.

http://schmoontherun.blogspot.com

‘Ta muchley’ (as they say in london).

Note: A ‘git’ is an ‘idiot’ in London English.

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: jon <jon@mindvox.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] (OT) old cbgb’s gig
Date: April 6, 2006 at 8:31:35 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

oh….ehehe… i don’t think they talked about that in the article i read… that’s pretty lame.

though, even if the owners of cbgb’s are acting dickishly, it’d still be an awful shame to lose the club. i mean, it’s such an important cultural landmark..

Preston Peet wrote:
So far as I know, the battle continues.
The landlord is actually a homeless shelter/outreach program, and CBGBs is apparently kinda bad about wanting to pay the rent. Or something along these lines (please don’t hold me to this, I could be utterly mistaken in my rememory of the particulars). It’d be a shame to see the place close, even though I don’t very often find myself inside CBGBs. I live close by, but not nearly as close as those at 9Bleeker.
—–
“If God dropped acid, would he see people?”  ~Steven Wright
Peace, love and lotsof respect.
Preston Peet
ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor Underground- the Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations, Astonishing Archaeology and Hidden History
Editor Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Columnist HighTimes mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.
—– Original Message —– From: <jon@mindvox.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Wednesday, April 05, 2006 4:24 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] (OT) old cbgb’s gig
neat =)

btw, how do you know how cbgb’s is doing with their lease or whatever? i
read an article sometime last year that said the landlord was pushing the
rent way up or something and that their future looked kinda shaky.

Hi all,
I realize I’ve been posting lots of photos lately. Here’re are three more
(I’ve attached them too Callie), from a show V and I did with our old band
at CBGB’s about 8 years ago, back in one of my mohawk phases. This was
taken during my methadone days as well. (So is this on or off topic?)
Funny how I’m not a big bloated fatty either, even on whatever I was on at
this time, 70 a day I think (not my highest nor lowest regular dosage
either, but I stayed at 70s for a little while, before dropping to 40 for
a couple years).
And V is finally growing her hair back. Yaaa! Or, YIPPIE, to quote a
friend. (I literally cried when she cut it all off. I was surprised how
much it hurt when she woke me from a nap one day a couple years ago to
tell me, “Hi honey, I cut off all my beautiful long red hair that you love
so much…” or words to this effect anyway. Now I AM getting waaaay off
topic, so I bid you all good day.)

Asbestos at CBGBs, April, 1998 (Me on guitar, DJ Ness on bass)

—–
“If God dropped acid, would he see people?”  ~Steven Wright

Peace, love and lotsof respect.
Preston Peet
ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor Underground- the Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations,
Astonishing Archaeology and Hidden History
Editor Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Columnist HighTimes mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html
[%]

\]=———————————————————————=[/

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]

\]=———————————————————————=[/

/]=———————————————————————=[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: jon <jon@mindvox.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] OT! Eating cattle or food
Date: April 6, 2006 at 8:28:14 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Well, if you eat fruit or nuts, you’re basically performing a plant abortion…

I wonder if pro-lifers abstain from fruit and nuts? =)

marko wrote:
It’s not so if you eat fruit or nuts.
such is the nature of Nature
Marko
jon@mindvox.com wrote:
but realise that whatever you eat, ANYTHING you eat, inflicts suffering on some creature.

such is the nature of life.

/]=———————————————————————=[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: jon <jon@mindvox.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] OT! Eating cattle or food (and) _______
Date: April 6, 2006 at 8:24:40 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

ahahhah. probably the best post on this topic so far.

thanx howard =)

HSLotsof@aol.com wrote:
Fruits, nuts and chemicals I would say by the make up of this list.
Howard
In a message dated 4/6/06 7:28:19 AM, marko@phantom.com writes:
Hi Jon,

as you said, our digestive system is too short for plants, and too long
for meat – but it’s exactly the right size for fruit. People are
frugivores, meant to eat fruit and a bit of nuts.

Even one of the commandments (of a rival, at the moment still bigger
religion than Sacrament of Transition) says: Do not kill (or something
like that 😉  It doesn’t say Do not kill people, or Do not kill
animals, but Do not kill. Even when you cut the lettuce, you kill it.
And it’s hard to digest it, of course.

Eating fruits is the only way Not to kill. Fruits (and a bit of nuts)
also contain everything humans need for living. Long and healthy living =)

Marko

jon@mindvox.com wrote:

>Your argument about our digestive system is completely off base. It’s
>actually easier for humans (and other primates) to digest meat than to
>digest plant matter. The main reason is that plant cells have tough cell
>walls, while animal cells do not. Our digestive system is not set up to
>get optimal nutrition from plants; for that we would need a digestive
>system more similar to a cow (i.e., multiple stomachs, cud-chewing, longer
>intenstines, etc.) This is why, for example, when you eat corn it comes
>out whole at the other end. Humans are not especially good at digesting
>most plant matter.
>
>Based purely on our biology, humans are set up to be omnivores.  This is
>because our digestive system has characterstics of both carnivores (e.g. a
>single stomach and canines) and herbivores (e.g. molars). The length of
>our digestive system is much shorter than that of pure herbivores, but
>longer than that of pure carnivores. Optimal human nutrition is best
>acheived by eating a balanced diet of animals and plants.
>

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] OT! Eating cattle or food (and) _______
Date: April 6, 2006 at 8:18:01 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Fruits, nuts and chemicals I would say by the make up of this list.

Howard

In a message dated 4/6/06 7:28:19 AM, marko@phantom.com writes:

Hi Jon,

as you said, our digestive system is too short for plants, and too long
for meat – but it’s exactly the right size for fruit. People are
frugivores, meant to eat fruit and a bit of nuts.

Even one of the commandments (of a rival, at the moment still bigger
religion than Sacrament of Transition) says: Do not kill (or something
like that 😉  It doesn’t say Do not kill people, or Do not kill
animals, but Do not kill. Even when you cut the lettuce, you kill it.
And it’s hard to digest it, of course.

Eating fruits is the only way Not to kill. Fruits (and a bit of nuts)
also contain everything humans need for living. Long and healthy living =)

Marko

jon@mindvox.com wrote:

>Your argument about our digestive system is completely off base. It’s
>actually easier for humans (and other primates) to digest meat than to
>digest plant matter. The main reason is that plant cells have tough cell
>walls, while animal cells do not. Our digestive system is not set up to
>get optimal nutrition from plants; for that we would need a digestive
>system more similar to a cow (i.e., multiple stomachs, cud-chewing, longer
>intenstines, etc.) This is why, for example, when you eat corn it comes
>out whole at the other end. Humans are not especially good at digesting
>most plant matter.
>
>Based purely on our biology, humans are set up to be omnivores.  This is
>because our digestive system has characterstics of both carnivores (e.g. a
>single stomach and canines) and herbivores (e.g. molars). The length of
>our digestive system is much shorter than that of pure herbivores, but
>longer than that of pure carnivores. Optimal human nutrition is best
>acheived by eating a balanced diet of animals and plants.
>

From: marko <marko@phantom.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] OT! Eating cattle or food
Date: April 6, 2006 at 7:30:15 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Jon,

as you said, our digestive system is too short for plants, and too long for meat – but it’s exactly the right size for fruit. People are frugivores, meant to eat fruit and a bit of nuts.

Even one of the commandments (of a rival, at the moment still bigger religion than Sacrament of Transition) says: Do not kill (or something like that 😉  It doesn’t say Do not kill people, or Do not kill animals, but Do not kill. Even when you cut the lettuce, you kill it. And it’s hard to digest it, of course.

Eating fruits is the only way Not to kill. Fruits (and a bit of nuts) also contain everything humans need for living. Long and healthy living =)

Marko

jon@mindvox.com wrote:

Your argument about our digestive system is completely off base. It’s
actually easier for humans (and other primates) to digest meat than to
digest plant matter. The main reason is that plant cells have tough cell
walls, while animal cells do not. Our digestive system is not set up to
get optimal nutrition from plants; for that we would need a digestive
system more similar to a cow (i.e., multiple stomachs, cud-chewing, longer
intenstines, etc.) This is why, for example, when you eat corn it comes
out whole at the other end. Humans are not especially good at digesting
most plant matter.

Based purely on our biology, humans are set up to be omnivores.  This is
because our digestive system has characterstics of both carnivores (e.g. a
single stomach and canines) and herbivores (e.g. molars). The length of
our digestive system is much shorter than that of pure herbivores, but
longer than that of pure carnivores. Optimal human nutrition is best
acheived by eating a balanced diet of animals and plants.

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: ekki <ekkijdfg@gmx.de>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] OT! Eating cattle or food
Date: April 6, 2006 at 7:25:25 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

i heard steve jobs was a frutarian around the time he founded apple, therefor the name

Am 06.04.2006 um 13:01 schrieb marko:

It’s not so if you eat fruit or nuts.

such is the nature of Nature

Marko

jon@mindvox.com wrote:

but realise that whatever you eat, ANYTHING you eat, inflicts suffering on some creature.

such is the nature of life.

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: marko <marko@phantom.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] OT! Eating cattle or food
Date: April 6, 2006 at 7:01:40 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

It’s not so if you eat fruit or nuts.

such is the nature of Nature

Marko

jon@mindvox.com wrote:

but realise that whatever you eat, ANYTHING you eat, inflicts suffering on some creature.

such is the nature of life.

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] (ot) Fw: ghosts in the mist
Date: April 6, 2006 at 6:30:07 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>, <drugwar@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

This is pretty off topic, but hey, we all get our buzzes in different ways. Right?
Remember you need to read the story first, then turn your volume up so you can hear “the cameraman whispering” about the ghost.
;-0))

—–
“If God dropped acid, would he see people?”  ~Steven Wright

Peace, love and lotsof respect.
Preston Peet
ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor Underground- the Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations, Astonishing Archaeology and Hidden History
Editor Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Columnist HighTimes mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —– From: Gabriela Vuichoud
Sent: Thursday, April 06, 2006 2:38 AM
Subject: ghosts in the mist

You MUST READ THE STORY BEFORE WATCHING THE VIDEO – volume required

Strange but interesting.
This is a car advertisement from Great Britain.
When they finished filming the ad, the film editor noticed something
moving along the side of the car, like a ghostly white mist. They found out
that a person had been killed a year earlier in that exact same spot.

The ad was never put on TV because of the unexplained ghostly
phenomenon.

Watch the front end of the car as it clears the trees in the middle of
the screen and you’ll see the white mist crossing in front of the car then
following it along the road….Spooky!

Is it a ghost, or is it simply mist? You decide.

If you listen to the ad, you’ll even hear the cameraman whispering in
the background about it near the end of the commercial.

CLINIQUE LA PRAIRIE
Gabriela Vuichoud
snip-

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] OT! Eating cattle or food
Date: April 6, 2006 at 6:15:47 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Then there’s the clearing of the rainforests in South America to make ever more room for cattle, cattle cattle, and their food. At this point, I personally think it might be a good idea to begin looking for alternatives to such wonton destruction and waste. It’s got nothing at all to do with feeling superior (in my mind), it’s got a lot to do with kindness and empathy.
This is my last post on the topic.
But by all means, if it helps anyone feel better justifying any destructive, wasteful, unnecessary behaviors by asserting that “vegetarians are irritating to me,” (or that we’re simply designed to eat other animals) please do so. Personally I’ve made my choice, and am glad that ibogaine helped me do so.
And personally, I do feel it’s a pretty big moral dilemma.
Yet, I only lecture here online. I seldom if ever have this conversation in person, feeling it’s too much trouble to argue with others about this topic, because most meat eaters seem to feel the same way about those who don’t eat meat. “Ooooo, they irritate me.” But then, like any addict, who wants to look at their totally unnecessary meat addictions with open eyes?
;-)))

—–
“If God dropped acid, would he see people?”  ~Steven Wright

Peace, love and lotsof respect.
Preston Peet
ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor Underground- the Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations, Astonishing Archaeology and Hidden History
Editor Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Columnist HighTimes mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —– From: Crooked Eye
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Wednesday, April 05, 2006 11:05 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] OT! Eating cattle or food

CrookedEye stands and applauds…

jon <jon@mindvox.com> wrote:
oh that’s cool… i mean you know, eat whatever you want to eat and
don’t eat whatever you don’t wanna eat.

it’s just the vegetarians that think they’re somehow superior because
they don’t eat meat that irk me. it’s a personal choice, and nothing
more than that… no big moral dilema.. it’s just whatcha like putting
in your mouth =)

Preston Peet wrote:
I don’t eat clams or much of any type of sea food for a lot longer than
I’ve been vegitarian btw. That’s because, despite having grown up in a
beachtown, my first job(s) being at Walt’s Fish Market in Sarasota on US
41 (or maybe that’s part of the reason come to think of it), I hate sea
food, fish, etc…other than for stone crab and lobster. Those were
kinda tough to give up actually.
I hadn’t thought about potatos’ eyes, either. Thanks a lot Jon, now
what am I gonna do?
And to be frank, I don’t care about those “fine lines” between plants
and animals in the slightest. I know what moves me and what I feel
empathy for, just as I can see with my own eyes what creatures move
about, walk, swim, lick, cuddle, and which don’t. This isn’t belittling
plants in the slightest, but it’s a bit tougher for me to worry about
the plants being eaten than it is for animals and How They Are
Raised/Penned/Slaughtered/PeeledAlive/etc. Cest la vie.

—–
“If God dropped acid, would he see people?” ~Steven Wright

Peace, love and lotsof respect.
Preston Peet
ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor Underground- the Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations,
Astonishing Archaeology and Hidden History
Editor Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Columnist HighTimes mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —– From:
To:
Sent: Wednesday, April 05, 2006 2:24 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] OT! Eating cattle or food

potatoes have eyes too =P

i remember this punk song about how silly it is that vegetarians, for
example, don’t eat clams… because clams have essentially the same kind
of nervous system as broccoli and cauliflower…

the line between plant and animal is not an entirely clear one.. and the
decision to eat plants but not animals seems to me a pretty arbitrary
one.
plants are living, breathing, and to some degree, thinking creatures as
well. but they get no love from PETA…

i guess my basic point is.. eat whatever you’re comfortable with. but
realise that whatever you eat, ANYTHING you eat, inflicts suffering on
some creature.

such is the nature of life.

ahaha… speaking of PETA, i saw the best bumper sticker a couple weeks
ago….eheh… it said:

“PETA – People Eating Tasty Animals”

=)

oh, and one more thing… as for the whole pet vs. food argument… i
know
for a fact that if my cat ever got the chance, he would totally eat
me. so
i don’t wanna hear it.. =P

for me eating meat in a society where it’s unnecessary merely
promotes the
fear/bloodthirsty addiction so prevalent in the Western world. I can see
eating meat in a society where there are no alternatives, but where I
live
it’s easy to not eat meat, and I’m glad.
I still do dairy and eggs, but can’t eat anything that might lick it’s
fellow beings, or nuzzle them, or communicate in any way, shape or form
with
one another, even chickens (which I’ve been told are ok to eat because
“they’re stupid.” If that were the only criteria for being ok to eat,
I’d
be
a cannibal). Again, this is only my own viewpoint, but there seems to be
something unenlightened, to me, how some folk can have “pets” but call
cattle mere “food,” making no connection to the living, breathing,
thinking
creatures sharing the planet with us.

Butt, and it’s a great big butt, I can’t really fault anyone for their
eating habits beyond stating how I personally feel, particularly about
factory farming, inhumane treatment of our “food” and the wonton
slaughter
of living creatures when it isn’t necessary for our survival, only to
feed
our addiction to blood and flesh these days (Of course one couuld take
this
to extreme and tell me plants are also living, but I limit my empathy
and
eating ban to beings with eys I guess).
That’s because I’m…pro-choice at heart.

—–
“If God dropped acid, would he see people?” ~Steven Wright

Peace, love and lotsof respect.
Preston Peet
ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor Underground- the Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations,
Astonishing Archaeology and Hidden History
Editor Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Columnist HighTimes mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —–
From: Crooked Eye
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Tuesday, April 04, 2006 3:53 AM
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Whats a Republican?

Cow’s are tasty… If we aren’t supposed to eat animals, then why are
they
made out of meat? 😀 I fail how to see eating cows equates to
racism…
I
eat a lot of cows, but I have a mixed family… If it makes you feel
any
better we eat a lot of chickens, too.. I love turkey, the tryptophan
makes
me sleepy…

Alan Hehe wrote:
Don’t call me Baby…well, you can…since you’re not close enough
for
me
to do anything about it! Plus, that’s a freedom, too…Just like my
ability
to talk about pro-choice. As for your information, no, I don’t think the
way
the abortion system is set up–but I absolutely believe in having the
right…And no, you don’t have 9 months to decide whether to have the
rug
rat or not–there is a cut-off, a limit to when abortions can be
performed.
And so you think, because cows aren’t pets, or aren’t ‘cute’, then
it’s
okay to torture them? And to cut the balls of bulls off without any
anesthetic? To make chickens live in a cage so small they can barely
turn
around? And George Bush–wanting to save lives! LOL! That’s the biggest
joke
I’ve ever heard! But it figures; you’re not special..alot of the
people in
this country are brain-washed by the constant disinformation they are
fed….Why do you think there are a hundred commercials warning of the
dangers of marijuana, one of the least harmful drugs known to man,
but yet
maybe one out of those hundred about the truly dangerous drugs, like
H or
Coke?
And you don’t have to be a hindu to have compassion for animals
other
than cats and dogs, you dumb-ass red-neck! In some places they eat
dogs…would that be okay if they ate your dog? You know, I’m totally
wasting my time talking to you, I can already tell that you are way
undereducated, extremely prejudiced. Cows are just food. Are blacks just
niggers, too? God, I can’t stand fuckin’ red-necks like you, especially
the
ones that actually think they’re smart. Once you start doing away with
freedoms, it’s all down-hill. Who’s going to decide what’s right and
wrong?
You?! I would happily put a hollow-point 45 shell into my head if that
possibility existed..of course G.W.B. is quite the redneck himself,
which
is
why you probably like him. First of all, HE’s not fighting for
anything. I
have respect for the soldiers; they don’t decide the mission, they
just do
what they’re told. And how many babies do you think die while we were
waging
a war we were totally lied to about? Or is that okay? You think the
babies
over there even know what a terrorist is? This world is already
over-populated..if people like you ran things, the world would run
out of
resources within a decade! The oh so precious children! Everyone starts
out
as a child..some people, like you, remain one, in their minds, their
whole
life. But those sweet children often grow up to be killers and rapists,
and
often for no apparent reason! Strong belief does only one thing: close
your
mind. Boy, that ibogaine is gonna have fun with you!!!!! Cows are just
food!
Well, we’re just food, too…if a grizzly decides you look good! God,
what
egotism! You claim to be a Christian (I do not) but you must have
misssed
the part about not judging lest you be judged yourself…And I bet ibo’s
gonna drive that one home with a psychoactive sledgehammer! You’ve got
your
response, but I really no longer wish to talk with you. I’ve spent too
much
time arguing with all the fascists on this list, instead of hanging out
with
the cool, in the know ,people: by that meaning knowing that the whole
Govt.
is totally corrupt, actually controlled by a few wealthy and extremely
powerful people, and they constantly just feed us disinformation, while
manipulating the world through economic control, etc, and alot of other
things you wouldn’t understand. BYE< NOW, Billy BOY. Go get a burger!

From: “Billy J”
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Whats a Republican?
Date: Tue, 04 Apr 2006 02:19:25 -0400

Hear this peace and take it to your Heart FRIEND.
1st if we go back to Killing kids for the sins of their fathers
(Child of a Rapist) Do you think that is more civilized then Raising
Cattle for food,(Cattle are food “not Pets”) although you may be
from India or somewhere that they worship your cows and even there
fecal matter I hear! Now if your are at that junkger(Place) then I
will have to say -well Al, Bless you, but when was the last time you
had your precious cow go to war for YOUR FREEDOMS that I am sure you
are enjoying- Yes?
Allan , do you really love cows (the 4 legged ones that is) or
are you in your 2nd or 3rd reincarnation and you where once a cow
and you have come into this wierd mooing stage and you just could
not figure it out.
Ok That is sarcasm – Sorry< I’ll get serious.
Oh Ya Your aborting a fetus-, and yes I know that in the USof A
being the most civilized Nation that has usually voted anti-
Christian ( just in case somebody didn’t let Everybody do what FEELs
GOOD)
Ya you can Have sex with anybody you want and then if a girl gets
pregnant, or do you call it fetus something, oh well so shes
pregnant you have 9 months to decide whether or not you what the
little BLOB Because your fetus can be kicking up a storm and as long
as you can keep its stupid( oh it,s brain isn’t functioning yet
,right) well as long as you can keep its head inside the grown up
fetus ( that would be the female, The pregnant one, knocked up one ,
dumb one what ever you would call someone like that ( Maybe MOM)
well just reach in and CRUSH ITS SCULL and or STICK A SYRINGE INTO
THe Back of it HEAD JUST UNTIL ITS STOPS PUTTINGN UP A FIGHT, AND
they do fight Allan, just go and ask your abortion doctor.– PARTIAL
BIRTH ABORTION– VERY NICE–
oH YA AND YOU KNOW WHAT ALLY BABY THAT STUPID WAR MOGER THAT YOU
HAVE AS A PRESIDENT WOULD LIKE NOTHING MORE THAN TO SAVE PEOPLE BUT
ALL YOU PEOPLE THAT GOD GAVE YOU FREE CHOICE HAVE DECIDED TO VOTE
FOR THE REAL KILLERS-
Have you any clue how many of your fetuses are done away with
each year in the USA alone,, Allan Baby– way way more in 1 year
than have been killed in ALL the World wars— How many do you think
are rape and how many are just another form of birth control,, Your
Planned Parenthood is a multi-Billion dollar industry that fights
for you to have the freedom to get rid of your Babies- But They do
not do it for free– They are rich.One more thing if we can justify
killing because you THINK they don’t feel pain- Why not line up all
us addicts right after a good whack and while we are feeling no pain
BANG-
Save a lot of tax dollars- The Meth Clinics would be Pissed though.

Love Ya!

Just Don’t say it is OK To Kill My Children- Or Yours

B

—-Original Message Follows—-
From: “Alan Hehe”
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] RE: [Pornography,psychology,Choice,force,) 2
cents
Date: Tue, 04 Apr 2006 01:25:21 -0400
MIME-Version: 1.0
Received: from tomts30-srv.bellnexxia.net ([209.226.175.104]) by
bay0-pamc1-f3.bay0.hotmail.com with Microsoft
SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Mon, 3 Apr 2006 22:27:22 -0700
Received: from toip4.bellnexxia.net ([209.226.175.87]) by
tomts30-srv.bellnexxia.net (InterMail vM.5.01.06.13
201-253-122-130-113-20050324) with ESMTP id
<20060404052721.IXFI18550.tomts30-srv.bellnexxia.net@toip4.bellnexxia.net>

for ; Tue, 4 Apr 2006 01:27:21
-0400
Received: from tanelorn.mindvox.com (HELO mail.mindvox.com)
([64.124.179.118]) by toip4.bellnexxia.net with ESMTP; 04 Apr 2006
01:27:16 -0400
Received: (qmail 1073 invoked by uid 513); 4 Apr 2006 01:27:15 -0400
Received: (qmail 1067 invoked by uid 514); 4 Apr 2006 01:27:15 -0400
X-Message-Info: moY6YVwXQ46hfM+PXD+r03SFMVOY3E1daJYU/Sm1Nkw=
Mailing-List: contact ibogaine-help@mindvox.com; run by ezmlm
Precedence: bulk
X-No-Archive: yes
List-Post:
List-Help:
List-Unsubscribe:
List-Subscribe:
Delivered-To: mailing list ibogaine@mindvox.com
X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.1 required=4.0
X-Antivirus-MYDOMAIN-Mail-From: a.h.veil68@hotmail.com via
tanelorn.mindvox.com
X-Antivirus-MYDOMAIN: 1.25-st-qms
(Clear:RC:0(65.54.224.26):SA:0(-2.1/4.0):. Processed in 8.08646 secs
Process 1055)
Return-Path:
ibogaine-return-23280-billjohnson6=sympatico.ca@mindvox.com
X-OriginalArrivalTime: 04 Apr 2006 05:27:22.0868 (UTC)
FILETIME=[7363CB40:01C657A8]

I gotta take a piece of this one. Okay, Mr. Anti-choice, let me
ask you this: do you eat meat? If not, then good for you. If so,
have you ever though about the actual, truly painful, totally
inhumane treatment we put animals through? And usually don’t think
twice about it…It’s people like George Bush who make me wish
sometimes that God would hurl an asteroid at us! It’s “God forbid
one human foetus (who does not feel a thing if the abortion is done
in a timely manner, according to the latest research, because their
nervous system isn’t nearly fully developed) should perish, no
matter if it was caused by a rape or is probably going to be born
into alot of suffering–but while I’m on my high horse, cut me a
piece o that cow off and cook it up! It’s sheer egotism that we
believe that humans are so damned
important, but it’s okay if we torture animals, ruin the planet, and
make other people adhere to our beliefs!!! We’re not that important!
And if you believe in a God and the soul, then you know that–if the
foetus even has a soul yet, which I don’t believe it does..I believe
the soul enters with the first breath, and leaves with the
last–that baby is just going back into the arms of God! There is no
death! And since they don’t experience pain, all it becomes is
something for people like you to feel self righteous about!
Personally, I think everyone should smoke pot, and would benefit
from it (except for a few cases), but how would you like it if I
MADE you smoke it? That is, if you don’t, and don’t like it. Or
let’s say you eat meat, but I think it’s just as evil to do that as
to allow abortions, so I outlawed meat–would that be okay with you?
And the cliff analogy is just stupid–not
the same thing at all. But yes, I think if a person is truly
miserable, and wants to die, I would try to talk them out of it, but
I would never stop them by force. That’s called LACK OF FREEDOM. And
if we didn’t make mistakes, how would we ever learn? To be told
something is wrong is one thing..you can tell a person, fire will
burn you..but until they get burned, they will not truly understand,
and that’s what life is all about–learning. No, I don’t like to see
foetus’ abortions–I think prevention is the answer….But
sometimes, I believe it is ‘the best choice’. If everyone like you
had their way, there really would be NO ROOM AT ALL left!!! We’re
already sooo over-populated! It’s like I heard some character say in
a movie recently..”everybody’s kids are so special…it makes you
wonder where all the normal adults come from”. Even God believes in
freedom of choice! That’s why he gave
us FREE WILL. You’re a Republican, aren’t you? And you probably
think that war-mongering asshole of a President is the best-thing
since sliced bread, eh? It’s okay to kill, as long as it’s not a
precious child…even though that child may grow up to be The Son of
Sam! well…”take me by the ham, no good, no evil, no give a
damn!” And the Govt. is lying to you! About just about everything.
Peace, love, and freedom. Life is too mysterious to take it so
serious!

From: “Billy J”
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] RE: [Pornography,psychology,Choice,force,) 2
cents
Date: Sun, 02 Apr 2006 21:45:39 -0400
>Well It sounds like this place is really mixing it up so I would
>like to add a little REALITY TO YOU PRO CHOICERS, I am sure glad I
>was not an abortion’ althought I have had my moments.
>Yes My Mom was a young Mom and if she had a choice I think that I
>would have no Grandkids, or be babbleing on here.
> I too have an attitude, It is about the only thing in this
>world that I really have control over.
>Tiger– How well did you do with making ALL your own Choices,
>Instead of doing
what your were told to do? Not meant to be a shot
>at you personally, but I am with the Right or Wrong crowd- No such
>thing as grey.
> I do know that some people may have grown up believing that
wrong
>was right and right was wrong, but I Think that I pretty much knew
>when I was stepping out of line and doing wrong.
>It is (as most believe) My God , no not God, but My worldly given
>Right- to do wrong- It’s my life and if I want to screw it up then
>stay out of my way. And you know what I had a lot of sooo called
>friends that did just that WATCHED, AS i WAS Killing myself and
>ruining a lot of lifes.
>But O O O never no no no neverdare step on somebodys toes because
>you know what they have a choice, Just like those poor little
Crack
>%$^&%$ Women that degrade themselves( and me
myself) due to
>everybody. But Never No No Never dare tell somebody or force
someone
>to get some help that they may never ever make it to on their own,
>due to something called “Pride” “Shame” “Guilt”
>Whatever holds them back. They may end up DEAD and it would be
their
>own fault, because you know how STRONG us druggies are, and if
that
>person dies because he had a choice to get help and refused or
just
>couldn’t make it on his/her own and needed YOU (of course they

=== message truncated ===

Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. PC-to-Phone calls for ridiculously low rates.

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: “Paul Brookshaw” <jiggy9@hotmail.co.uk>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Ibo Love(Randy)
Date: April 6, 2006 at 6:11:52 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

>
> > Randy- Hang in there bro. This too shall pass
>
> Thanx Marc, I hope your right. I don’t feel like this will ever pass.
> I feel
> like I have lost a loved one or something. I suffer from depression
> and may
> even be a little manic. I’m not a shrink I don’t know, I just know
> that watching
> everybody else go about life it looks so easy to do but impossible
> for me to
> accomplish. I can get things done no doubt about it but sometimes I
> shut down
> and isolate. That’s where I am right now. Locked in a hotel room
> feeling
> miserable and frightened. I know who is reading this sometimes and I
> don’t care
> anymore I’m writing this for my own sanity. I personally think that
> anything said
> here should stay here but maybe that’s just the AA in me, I know it’s
> not
> that way. So fuckin’ be it. I aint said Blow Me here in a while maybe
> that is my
> problem. I know what I want to do and I know I have the best
> intentions I’m
> just screwed in the head like everybody else here. He He I already
> feel better
> just writing. I’m making a plan Mark. It aint easy to do right now
> with what
> I’ve got to work with but I’ll get past this. I know it. I refuse to
> let the
> fuckers grind me down like Gatewood Galbreth likes to say. O by the
> way yall,
> Gatewood is putting his book out in paper back and it has an updated
> chapter in
> it about Ibogaine. He’s a great dude. I’m not spamming the list here
> for him I
> just thought you all would like to know about it.    PS Peaches and
> Regalia is
> a Frank Zappa instrumental with George Duke on keyboards (I think)
> Preston
>     Thanx for the cyber hugs. Even you NIck, I trust your intentions.
>
> Randy
>

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

Hello Randy,
I pray that you are feeling bette this day. Excuse the typos. The Iboga blasts you right into the cosmos as you know, but you got to remember you are what you eat, what you think and what you feel.
All of the above I just ead shouts at me of FEAR. Your FEELINGS are EXAGORATED and APPEAR REAL to you. This is the crass of the Opiates you took. You are not depressed and not Manic, but Strate. Reality used to be normal to you before you used dope, now you are off everything is alive,. Praise and bless the day for your life and do not sit and wollow in the state of mind of, Oh what a reched Man I am. You make your life the way it is. Remeber, for those about to rock, We all Salute you fo your self respect and learning to Honour yourself. You are only a MAN and what seems easy to otheres as you see is as easy for you. Just take up thy bed and walk. Change yourr mind set. Be good to youself and be happy that you still live breath touch and feel and see. OK Bro I know cos i am 26 days clean after 5.2 grm of extract. Just be good to youself and take plenty of showers and get some oils and conditioner for you skin. I have had maybe 75 baths and 30 showers since i stepped off the mountain and i am getting there .
Blessings To you RAndy:)
Strenght Power and Honour Espect yourself Paul :)#”’

_________________________________________________________________
The new MSN Search Toolbar now includes Desktop search! http://join.msn.com/toolbar/overview

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] OT! Eating cattle or food
Date: April 6, 2006 at 5:56:27 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

and it’s occured to me since writing this message that one:

comparing ourselves to plants is kinda silly. How many plants do we see cowering in fear prior to being chopped down?

and two:

To assert that it’s “cool” to continue eating other creatures because the line between plants and animals is minimal (or whatever the comparrison was) very, very, very much reminds me of any addict making rationalizations for their addiction.
I write this not to cause offense to anyone, but I was thinking a lot about this since yesterday morning.
When someone can show me, beyond special meters that allegedly show plants “screaming” when cut, then maybe I’ll give this rationalization more weight, but until then, I won’t for the life of me understand how people can be so cold hearted as this. Still, it’s eating, the most sacred, unquestionable of addictions, right? It tastes good darn it, so why not eat it?
sigh.

—–
“If God dropped acid, would he see people?”  ~Steven Wright

Peace, love and lotsof respect.
Preston Peet
ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor Underground- the Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations, Astonishing Archaeology and Hidden History
Editor Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Columnist HighTimes mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —– From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Wednesday, April 05, 2006 5:06 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] OT! Eating cattle or food

I don’t eat clams or much of any type of sea food for a lot longer than I’ve been vegitarian btw. That’s because, despite having grown up in a beachtown, my first job(s) being at Walt’s Fish Market in Sarasota on US 41 (or maybe that’s part of the reason come to think of it), I hate sea food, fish, etc…other than for stone crab and lobster. Those were kinda tough to give up actually.
I hadn’t thought about potatos’ eyes, either. Thanks a lot Jon, now what am I gonna do?
And to be frank, I don’t care about those “fine lines” between plants and animals in the slightest. I know what moves me and what I feel empathy for, just as I can see with my own eyes what creatures move about, walk, swim, lick, cuddle, and which don’t. This isn’t belittling plants in the slightest, but it’s a bit tougher for me to worry about the plants being eaten than it is for animals and How They Are Raised/Penned/Slaughtered/PeeledAlive/etc. Cest la vie.

—–
“If God dropped acid, would he see people?”  ~Steven Wright

Peace, love and lotsof respect.
Preston Peet
ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor Underground- the Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations, Astonishing Archaeology and Hidden History
Editor Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Columnist HighTimes mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —– From: <jon@mindvox.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Wednesday, April 05, 2006 2:24 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] OT! Eating cattle or food

potatoes have eyes too =P

i remember this punk song about how silly it is that vegetarians, for
example, don’t eat clams… because clams have essentially the same kind
of nervous system as broccoli and cauliflower…

the line between plant and animal is not an entirely clear one.. and the
decision to eat plants but not animals seems to me a pretty arbitrary one.
plants are living, breathing, and to some degree, thinking creatures as
well. but they get no love from PETA…

i guess my basic point is.. eat whatever you’re comfortable with. but
realise that whatever you eat, ANYTHING you eat, inflicts suffering on
some creature.

such is the nature of life.

ahaha… speaking of PETA, i saw the best bumper sticker a couple weeks
ago….eheh… it said:

“PETA – People Eating Tasty Animals”

=)

oh, and one more thing… as for the whole pet vs. food argument… i know
for a fact that if my cat ever got the chance, he would totally eat me. so
i don’t wanna hear it.. =P

for me eating meat in a society where it’s unnecessary merely promotes the
fear/bloodthirsty addiction so prevalent in the Western world. I can see
eating meat in a society where there are no alternatives, but where I live
it’s easy to not eat meat, and I’m glad.
I still do dairy and eggs, but can’t eat anything that might lick it’s
fellow beings, or nuzzle them, or communicate in any way, shape or form
with
one another, even chickens (which I’ve been told are ok to eat because
“they’re stupid.” If that were the only criteria for being ok to eat, I’d
be
a cannibal). Again, this is only my own viewpoint, but there seems to be
something unenlightened, to me, how some folk can have “pets” but call
cattle mere “food,” making no connection to the living, breathing,
thinking
creatures sharing the planet with us.

Butt, and it’s a great big butt, I can’t really fault anyone for their
eating habits beyond stating how I personally feel, particularly about
factory farming, inhumane treatment of our “food” and the wonton slaughter
of living creatures when it isn’t necessary for our survival, only to feed
our addiction to blood and flesh these days (Of course one couuld take
this
to extreme and tell me plants are also living, but I limit my empathy and
eating ban to beings with eys I guess).
That’s because I’m…pro-choice at heart.

—–
“If God dropped acid, would he see people?”  ~Steven Wright

Peace, love and lotsof respect.
Preston Peet
ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor Underground- the Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations,
Astonishing Archaeology and Hidden History
Editor Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Columnist HighTimes mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —–
From: Crooked Eye
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Tuesday, April 04, 2006 3:53 AM
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Whats a Republican?

Cow’s are tasty…  If we aren’t supposed to eat animals, then why are
they
made out of meat?  😀  I fail how to see eating cows equates to racism…
I
eat a lot of cows, but I have a mixed family…  If it makes you feel any
better we eat a lot of chickens, too..  I love turkey, the tryptophan
makes
me sleepy…

Alan Hehe <a.h.veil68@hotmail.com> wrote:
Don’t call me Baby…well, you can…since you’re not close enough for
me
to do anything about it! Plus, that’s a freedom, too…Just like my
ability
to talk about pro-choice. As for your information, no, I don’t think the
way
the abortion system is set up–but I absolutely believe in having the
right…And no, you don’t have 9 months to decide whether to have the rug
rat or not–there is a cut-off, a limit to when abortions can be
performed.
And so you think, because cows aren’t pets, or aren’t ‘cute’, then
it’s
okay to torture them? And to cut the balls of bulls off without any
anesthetic? To make chickens live in a cage so small they can barely turn
around? And George Bush–wanting to save lives! LOL! That’s the biggest
joke
I’ve ever heard! But it figures; you’re not special..alot of the people in
this country are brain-washed by the constant disinformation they are
fed….Why do you think there are a hundred commercials warning of the
dangers of marijuana, one of the least harmful drugs known to man, but yet
maybe one out of those hundred about the truly dangerous drugs, like H or
Coke?
And you don’t have to be a hindu to have compassion for animals
other
than cats and dogs, you dumb-ass red-neck! In some places they eat
dogs…would that be okay if they ate your dog? You know, I’m totally
wasting my time talking to you, I can already tell that you are way
undereducated, extremely prejudiced. Cows are just food. Are blacks just
niggers, too? God, I can’t stand fuckin’ red-necks like you, especially
the
ones that actually think they’re smart. Once you start doing away with
freedoms, it’s all down-hill. Who’s going to decide what’s right and
wrong?
You?! I would happily put a hollow-point 45 shell into my head if that
possibility existed..of course G.W.B. is quite the redneck himself, which
is
why you probably like him. First of all, HE’s not fighting for anything. I
have respect for the soldiers; they don’t decide the mission, they just do
what they’re told. And how many babies do you think die while we were
waging
a war we were totally lied to about? Or is that okay? You think the babies
over there even know what a terrorist is? This world is already
over-populated..if people like you ran things, the world would run out of
resources within a decade! The oh so precious children! Everyone starts
out
as a child..some people, like you, remain one, in their minds, their whole
life. But those sweet children often grow up to be killers and rapists,
and
often for no apparent reason!  Strong belief does only one thing: close
your
mind. Boy, that ibogaine is gonna have fun with you!!!!! Cows are just
food!
Well, we’re just food, too…if a grizzly decides you look good! God, what
egotism!  You claim to be a Christian (I do not) but you must have misssed
the part about not judging lest you be judged yourself…And I bet ibo’s
gonna drive that one home with a psychoactive sledgehammer! You’ve got
your
response, but I really no longer wish to talk with you. I’ve spent too
much
time arguing with all the fascists on this list, instead of hanging out
with
the cool, in the know ,people: by that meaning knowing that the whole
Govt.
is totally corrupt, actually controlled by a few wealthy and extremely
powerful people, and they constantly just feed us disinformation, while
manipulating the world through economic control, etc, and alot of other
things you wouldn’t understand. BYE< NOW, Billy BOY. Go get a burger!

From:  “Billy J” <billjohnson6@sympatico.ca>
Reply-To:  ibogaine@mindvox.com
To:  ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject:  RE: [Ibogaine] Whats a Republican?
Date:  Tue, 04 Apr 2006 02:19:25 -0400
Hear this peace and take it to your Heart FRIEND.
1st if we go back to Killing kids for the sins of their fathers
(Child of a Rapist) Do you think that is more civilized then Raising
Cattle for food,(Cattle are food “not Pets”) although you may be
from India or somewhere that they worship your cows and even there
fecal matter I hear! Now if your are at that junkger(Place) then I
will have to say -well Al, Bless you, but when was the last time you
had your precious cow go to war for YOUR FREEDOMS that I am sure you
are enjoying- Yes?
Allan , do you really love cows (the 4 legged ones that is) or
are you in your 2nd or 3rd reincarnation and you where once a cow
and you have come into this wierd mooing stage and you just could
not figure it out.
Ok That is sarcasm – Sorry< I’ll get serious.
Oh Ya Your aborting a fetus-, and yes I know that in the USof A
being the most civilized Nation that has usually voted anti-
Christian ( just in case somebody didn’t let Everybody do what FEELs
GOOD)
Ya you can Have sex with anybody you want and then if a girl gets
pregnant, or do you call it fetus something, oh well  so shes
pregnant you have 9 months to decide whether or not you what the
little BLOB Because your fetus can be kicking up a storm and as long
as you can keep its stupid( oh it,s brain isn’t functioning yet
,right) well as long as you can keep its head inside the grown up
fetus ( that would be the female, The pregnant one, knocked up one ,
dumb one what ever you would call someone like that ( Maybe MOM)
well just reach in and CRUSH ITS SCULL and or STICK A SYRINGE INTO
THe Back of it HEAD JUST UNTIL ITS STOPS PUTTINGN UP A FIGHT, AND
they do fight Allan, just go and ask your abortion doctor.– PARTIAL
BIRTH ABORTION– VERY NICE–
oH YA AND YOU KNOW WHAT ALLY BABY THAT STUPID WAR MOGER THAT YOU
HAVE AS A PRESIDENT WOULD LIKE NOTHING MORE THAN TO SAVE PEOPLE BUT
ALL YOU PEOPLE THAT GOD GAVE YOU FREE CHOICE HAVE DECIDED TO VOTE
FOR THE REAL KILLERS-
Have you any clue how many of your fetuses are done away with
each year in the USA alone,, Allan Baby– way way more in 1 year
than have been killed in ALL the World wars— How many do you think
are rape and how many are just another form of birth control,, Your
Planned Parenthood is a multi-Billion dollar industry that fights
for you to have the freedom to get rid of your Babies- But They do
not do it for free– They are rich.One more thing if we can justify
killing because you THINK they don’t feel pain- Why not line up all
us addicts right after a good whack and while we are feeling no pain
BANG-
Save a lot of tax dollars- The Meth Clinics would be Pissed though.

Love Ya!

Just Don’t say it is OK To Kill My Children- Or Yours

B

—-Original Message Follows—-
From: “Alan Hehe” <a.h.veil68@hotmail.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] RE: [Pornography,psychology,Choice,force,) 2
cents
Date: Tue, 04 Apr 2006 01:25:21 -0400
MIME-Version: 1.0
Received: from tomts30-srv.bellnexxia.net ([209.226.175.104]) by
bay0-pamc1-f3.bay0.hotmail.com with Microsoft
SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Mon, 3 Apr 2006 22:27:22 -0700
Received: from toip4.bellnexxia.net ([209.226.175.87])          by
tomts30-srv.bellnexxia.net          (InterMail vM.5.01.06.13
201-253-122-130-113-20050324) with ESMTP          id
<20060404052721.IXFI18550.tomts30-srv.bellnexxia.net@toip4.bellnexxia.net>
for <billjohnson6@sympatico.ca>; Tue, 4 Apr 2006 01:27:21
-0400
Received: from tanelorn.mindvox.com (HELO mail.mindvox.com)
([64.124.179.118])  by toip4.bellnexxia.net with ESMTP; 04 Apr 2006
01:27:16 -0400
Received: (qmail 1073 invoked by uid 513); 4 Apr 2006 01:27:15 -0400
Received: (qmail 1067 invoked by uid 514); 4 Apr 2006 01:27:15 -0400
X-Message-Info: moY6YVwXQ46hfM+PXD+r03SFMVOY3E1daJYU/Sm1Nkw=
Mailing-List: contact ibogaine-help@mindvox.com; run by ezmlm
Precedence: bulk
X-No-Archive: yes
List-Post: <mailto:ibogaine@mindvox.com>
List-Help: <mailto:ibogaine-help@mindvox.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:ibogaine-unsubscribe@mindvox.com>
List-Subscribe: <mailto:ibogaine-subscribe@mindvox.com>
Delivered-To: mailing list ibogaine@mindvox.com
X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.1 required=4.0
X-Antivirus-MYDOMAIN-Mail-From: a.h.veil68@hotmail.com via
tanelorn.mindvox.com
X-Antivirus-MYDOMAIN: 1.25-st-qms
(Clear:RC:0(65.54.224.26):SA:0(-2.1/4.0):. Processed in 8.08646 secs
Process 1055)
Return-Path:
ibogaine-return-23280-billjohnson6=sympatico.ca@mindvox.com
X-OriginalArrivalTime: 04 Apr 2006 05:27:22.0868 (UTC)
FILETIME=[7363CB40:01C657A8]

I gotta take a piece of this one. Okay, Mr. Anti-choice, let me
ask you this: do you eat meat? If not, then good for you. If so,
have you ever though about the actual, truly painful, totally
inhumane treatment we put animals through? And usually don’t think
twice about it…It’s people like George Bush who make me wish
sometimes that God would hurl an asteroid at us! It’s “God forbid
one human foetus (who does not feel a thing if the abortion is done
in a timely manner, according to the latest research, because their
nervous system isn’t nearly fully developed) should perish, no
matter if it was caused by a rape or is probably going to be born
into alot of suffering–but while I’m on my high horse, cut me a
piece o that cow off and cook it up! It’s sheer egotism that we
believe that humans are so damned
important, but it’s okay if we torture animals, ruin the planet, and
make other people adhere to our beliefs!!! We’re not that important!
And if you believe in a God and the soul, then you know that–if the
foetus even has a soul yet, which I don’t believe it does..I believe
the soul enters with the first breath, and leaves with the
last–that baby is just going back into the arms of God! There is no
death! And since they don’t experience pain, all it becomes is
something for people like you to feel self righteous about!
Personally, I think everyone should smoke pot, and would benefit
from it (except for a few cases), but how would you like it if I
MADE you smoke it? That is, if you don’t, and don’t like it. Or
let’s say you eat meat, but I think it’s just as evil to do that as
to allow abortions, so I outlawed meat–would that be okay with you?
And the cliff analogy is just stupid–not
the same thing at all. But yes, I think if a person is truly
miserable, and wants to die, I would try to talk them out of it, but
I would never stop them by force. That’s called LACK OF FREEDOM. And
if we didn’t make mistakes, how would we ever learn? To be told
something is wrong is one thing..you can tell a person, fire will
burn you..but until they get burned, they will not truly understand,
and that’s what life is all about–learning. No, I don’t like to see
foetus’ abortions–I think prevention is the answer….But
sometimes, I believe it is ‘the best choice’. If everyone like you
had their way, there really would be NO ROOM AT ALL left!!! We’re
already sooo over-populated! It’s like I heard some character say in
a movie recently..”everybody’s kids are so special…it makes you
wonder where all the normal adults come from”. Even God believes in
freedom of choice! That’s why he gave
us FREE WILL. You’re a Republican, aren’t you? And you probably
think that war-mongering asshole of a President is the best-thing
since sliced bread, eh? It’s okay to kill, as long as it’s not a
precious child…even though that child may grow up to be The Son of
Sam!  well…”take me by the ham, no good, no evil, no give a
damn!”  And the Govt. is lying to you! About just about everything.
Peace, love, and freedom. Life is too mysterious to take it so
serious!

From:  “Billy J” <billjohnson6@sympatico.ca>
Reply-To:  ibogaine@mindvox.com
To:  ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject:  [Ibogaine] RE: [Pornography,psychology,Choice,force,) 2
cents
Date:  Sun, 02 Apr 2006 21:45:39 -0400
>Well It sounds like this place is really mixing it up so I would
>like to add a little REALITY TO YOU PRO CHOICERS, I am sure glad I
>was not an abortion’ althought I have had my moments.
>Yes My Mom was a young Mom and if she had a choice I think that I
>would have no Grandkids, or be babbleing on here.
>     I too have an attitude, It is about the only thing in this
>world that I really have control over.
>Tiger– How well did you do with making ALL your own Choices,
>Instead of doing
what your were told to do? Not meant to be a shot
>at you personally, but I am with the Right or Wrong crowd- No such
>thing as grey.
>   I do know that some people may have grown up believing that
wrong
>was right and right was wrong, but I Think that I pretty much knew
>when I was stepping out of line and doing wrong.
>It is (as most believe) My God , no not God, but My worldly given
>Right- to do wrong- It’s my life and if I want to screw it up then
>stay out of my way. And you know what I had a lot of sooo called
>friends that did just that WATCHED, AS i WAS Killing myself and
>ruining a lot of lifes.
>But O O O never no no no neverdare step on somebodys toes because
>you know what they have a choice, Just like those poor little
Crack
>%$^&%$ Women that degrade themselves( and me
myself) due to
>everybody. But Never No No Never dare tell somebody or force
someone
>to get some help that they may never ever make it to on their own,
>due to something called “Pride” “Shame” “Guilt”
>Whatever holds them back. They may end up DEAD and it would be
their
>own fault, because you know how STRONG us druggies are, and if
that
>person dies because he had a choice to get help and refused or
just
>couldn’t make it on his/her own and needed YOU (of course they
>didn’t tell you that).
>I am sorry but I BELIEVE that if you Love Someone or even care a
>little, and you see them walking off a cliff and YOU have an
>opportunity to stop them, and you don’t- Can you truelly say it
was
>their own fault?
>Pornography- I never met too many Normal people that would find it
>neccesary to take their
cloths off for the public to see. Totally
>wrong and if you had your own kids you might not think it too cool
>having your buddy beating off while checking out your little girl.
>Not nice eh Billy but P–sy T-ts are not meant for anyone except
who
>they belong to and their mate.
>
>Bye For Now, That stuff is about the biggest trigger going for any
>downfall
>
>Bill
>—-Original Message Follows—-
>From: “Nick Sandberg” <nick227@tiscali.co.uk>
>Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
>To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
>Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Opiates
>Date: Sun, 2 Apr 2006 10:24:07 +0100
>MIME-Version: 1.0
>Received: from tomts21-srv.bellnexxia.net ([209.226.175.183]) by
>bay0-pamc1-f11.bay0.hotmail.com with Microsoft
>SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Sun, 2 Apr 2006 05:38:59
-0700
>Received: from toip5.bellnexxia.net ([209.226.175.88])          by
>tomts21-srv.bellnexxia.net          (InterMail vM.5.01.06.13
>201-253-122-130-113-20050324) with ESMTP          id
><20060402123858.HZPV14030.tomts21-srv.bellnexxia.net@toip5.bellnexxia.net>
>          for <billjohnson6@sympatico.ca>; Sun, 2 Apr 2006
08:38:58
>-0400
>Received: from tanelorn.mindvox.com (HELO mail.mindvox.com)
>([64.124.179.118])  by toip5.bellnexxia.net with ESMTP; 02 Apr
2006
>08:38:58 -0400
>Received: (qmail 16967 invoked by uid 513); 2 Apr 2006 08:38:55
>-0400
>Received: (qmail 16961 invoked by uid
514); 2 Apr 2006 08:38:55
>-0400
>X-Message-Info: moY6YVwXQ44WAJnUvaOEtK2hXKGagKAsshDbZwj7pSc=
>Mailing-List: contact ibogaine-help@mindvox.com; run by ezmlm
>Precedence: bulk
>X-No-Archive: yes
>List-Post: <mailto:ibogaine@mindvox.com>
>List-Help: <mailto:ibogaine-help@mindvox.com>
>List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:ibogaine-unsubscribe@mindvox.com>
>List-Subscribe: <mailto:ibogaine-subscribe@mindvox.com>
>Delivered-To: mailing list ibogaine@mindvox.com
>X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.3 required=4.0
>X-Antivirus-MYDOMAIN-Mail-From: nick227@tiscali.co.uk via
>tanelorn.mindvox.com
>X-Antivirus-MYDOMAIN: 1.25-st-qms
>(Clear:RC:0(212.74.114.37):SA:0(-2.3/4.0):. Processed in 2.781926
>secs Process 16953)
>X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true
>X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result:
AQAAAJ0kL0SDE4UI
>X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.6604 (9.0.2911.0)
>Return-Path:
>ibogaine-return-23233-billjohnson6=sympatico.ca@mindvox.com
>X-OriginalArrivalTime: 02 Apr 2006 12:38:59.0373 (UTC)
>FILETIME=[6A155DD0:01C65652]
>
>
>   —–Original Message—–
>   From: Tiger Lisa [mailto:tigerlisa@gmail.com]
>   Sent: 01 April 2006 13:44
>   To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
>   Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Opiates
>
>
>   Dear Nick,
>   Here’ the part I don’t understand.
>
>   You wrote,
>   Personally, my position is…I think rising awareness is GOOD.
I
>would
>love to see more people in groups, going through their stuff,
>becoming more
>aware of their
personal interior dynamic, and moving forward in
>life. But,
>sadly, I’m not in a position to compel people to do this.
>
>   Why would you ever want to COMPEL anyone to do ANYTHING? Do you
>really
>believe that would be useful, effective, helpful? Do you think
>people
>actually benefit from, and grow from, being FORCED to do anything?
>
>   That is a parent-child model of interaction (and not a
>particularly
>skillful one, IMO), and it’s going to reinforce childlike,
>rebellious and
>victim behavior (NOT self-awareness!) in the one so compelled, as
>well as
>reinforcing bullying behavior and disprespectful and righteous
>attitudes
>(NOT increased compassion or awareness) in the one doing the
>compelling. A
>”lose-lose” interaction–no one
wins!
>
>   Myself, I believe CHOICE is the name of the game. With choice
>comes
>responsibility, self-responsibility and a loss of the victim
>consciousness
>that drives continued reactive and unconscious behavior.
>
>   So in a nutshell: Saying something (like awarenss) is GOOD is
one
>thing,
>but it’s a far cry from that to say,”And I’d love to FORCE you all
>to be
>more aware! too bad I can’t!” I think that is the essence of
what
>*I* am
>having a problem with. Yes, awareness is good. I agree. Yes, I’d
>love to
>live in a more aware society, umm hmm. Then I read the next
sentence
>and I’m
>brought up short.
>
>   We all need love, acceptance, compassion. Compassion is one of
>the most
>healing things
going! Power and control, on the other hand, just get
>people’s backs up, thrust them into dysfunctional modes of
thinking
>and
>perpetuate a lack of awareness all around.
>
>   Just my two cents,
>   Tiger
>
>   PS I bet if you took a shot of heroin, you would experience
>bliss! (not
>that I’m suggesting you do) I believe it is just how human beings
>are wired.
>We’ve all got the same neurotransmitters, more or less.
>
>   Hi Tiger,
>
>   Well, I seem to recall, from the days when I used to go to
>conferences and
>stuff, that studies have shown that only a small percentage of
>school kids
>who used heroin developed a habit. (Howard Parker in Sheffield, or
>something
>like that, about 1000 individuals
studied). This is not quite the
>same as
>what you’re saying, I appreciate, but it shows that the drug of
>itself is
>not necessarily addicting. I don’t know if anyone knows what makes
a
>difference but I’d be willing to bet that, psychologically, it
>relates
>strongly to “ego orientation” vs “underlying levels of feeling.”
If
>you’ve
>developed a self-image that requires you to repress more feelings
>than the
>endogenous opiates in your body can do, then taking heroin is
going
>to make
>you feel pretty good. I would personally say that this is very
>likely one
>psychological mechanism behind addiction. This would explain why
so
>many
>addicts do come from relatively high trauma backgrounds. For, as
>kids, we
>learn that to “get things” and to “be popular” we need to
be able to
>keep
>our feelings a bit under control, not just likely to collapse from
>overfeeling at any time.
>
>   With bliss, (or anxiety for that matter), these are
experiential
>things
>and no neuroscientist can explain them beyond pointing a little at
>things
>that seem to be involved. What is clear is that the states are
>relative to
>one another. If you’re basically a happy person bliss is
inevitably
>less
>attractive than if you’re an anxious person.
>
>   About awareness, yes, I would love to force everyone to be more
>aware!
>And, inevitably, it doesn’t really work like that! But that’s my
>position
>anyway. What to do? Yes, compassion is needed, sometimes a lot of
>it. Also,
>all the power and control at times. I’m not so
busy with how I think
>society
>should be, or trying to like Understand the world, I just put my
>position
>out really. About choice, well, it seems like a great thing, for
>sure, but
>to me it’s a little the same as trying to push compassion at the
>expense of
>power. In philosophy or spirituality or whatever, some people
>believe that
>free will exists, others that the universe is entirely
>deterministic. Who
>the fuck knows? Both are cool viewpoints, and I personally
wouldn’t
>just
>want to just trapped in just one of them.
>
>   Is it cool to allow someone you care about to carry on fucking
>their life
>up because you believe so much in their free will? Not for me! I
>like to
>have the guts to take a position. And, to be honest, it’s a little

>bit what
>I miss in this list, where half the time everyone seems to be
>talking it up
>all nice but actually underneath there are shed-loads of feelings.
I
>don’t
>know if this says anything significant about ibogaine, or about
the
>people
>who are attracted to administering it, or what. But I notice it.
>
>   Nick
>
>
>
>
>
>/]=———————————————————————=[\
>[%] Ibogaine List Commands:
>http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
>
>\]=———————————————————————=[/
>
>

With MSN Spaces email straight to your blog. Upload jokes, photos
and more. It’s free!

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands:
http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]

\]=———————————————————————=[/

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands:
http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]

\]=———————————————————————=[/

Be one of the first to try Windows Live Mail
/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html
[%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. PC-to-Phone calls for ridiculously low rates.

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html
[%]

\]=———————————————————————=[/

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]

\]=———————————————————————=[/

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: “Paul Brookshaw” <jiggy9@hotmail.co.uk>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Fw: 2 tough questions. Off topic,..but not No.2
Date: April 6, 2006 at 5:43:13 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Wow most definitaly correct Sara’ but just to much input for me lolol
Paul:)
Wow there are some seriously mashed up heads and lost hearts and souls out there babe for sure!!!

From: “Sara Glatt” <sara119@xs4all.nl>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Fw: 2 tough questions. Off topic,..but not No.2
Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2006 12:27:08 +0100 (CET)

> Do you actually think that Islam is the worst enemy of the US when idiots
> like Cheney hold onto intellegence like “Bin Laden Likely to Strike in
> US”.
> Rumsfeld wanted a “Second Pearl Harbor” .  Pat Robertson, a so-called
> Christian wants to kill the President of Venezuela. Your talking points
> are
> sick and so is the GOP>
>
>
>Salman Rushdie is among a dozen writers to have put their names to a
statement in a
French weekly paper warning against Islamic “totalitarianism”.
The writers say the violence sparked by the publication of cartoons
satirising the
Prophet Muhammad shows the need to fight for secular values and freedom.

The statement is published in Charlie Hebdo, one of several European
papers to
reprint the caricatures.

The images, first published in Denmark, have angered Muslims across the
world.

One showed the Prophet Muhammad, whose depiction is banned in Islam, as a
terrorist
bomber.

Many newspapers defended their decision to reprint the cartoons on the
grounds of
freedom of expression.

‘Global threat’

Almost all of those who have signed the statement have experienced
difficulties with
Islamic militancy first-hand, says the BBC’s Caroline Wyatt in Paris.

They include Dutch MP and filmmaker Ayaan Hirsi Ali and exiled Bangladeshi
writer
Taslima Nasreen.

STATEMENT SIGNATORIES
Salman Rushdie – Indian-born British writer with fatwa issued ordering his
execution for The Satanic Verses
Ayaan Hirsi Ali – Somali-born Dutch MP
Taslima Nasreen – exiled Bangladeshi writer, with fatwa issued ordering her
execution
Bernard-Henri Levy – French philosopher
Chahla Chafiq – Iranian writer exiled in France
Caroline Fourest – French writer
Irshad Manji – Ugandan refugee and writer living in Canada
Mehdi Mozaffari – Iranian academic exiled in Denmark
Maryam Namazie – Iranian writer living in Britain
Antoine Sfeir – director of French review examining Middle East
Ibn Warraq – US academic of Indian/Pakistani origin
Philippe Val – director of Charlie Hebdo

“After having overcome fascism, Nazism, and Stalinism, the world now faces
a new
global threat: Islamism,” the manifesto says.
“We, writers, journalists, intellectuals, call for resistance to religious
totalitarianism and for the promotion of freedom, equal opportunity and
secular
values for all.”

The clashes over the cartoons “revealed the necessity of the struggle for
these
universal values,” the statement continues.

“It is not a clash of civilisations nor an antagonism of West and East
that we are
witnessing, but a global struggle that confronts democrats and theocrats.”

The writers said they refused to accept that Muslim men and women “should be
deprived of their rights to equality, liberty or secularity in the name of
respect
for culture or tradition”.

They also said they would not give up their critical spirit out of fear of
being
accused of Islamophobia.

“Islamism is a reactionary ideology which kills equality, freedom and
secularism
wherever it is present,” the writers added, saying it is nurtured by fears
and
frustrations.

Story from BBC NEWS
_________________
“When one is connected above,’’ he said
quietly, “he does not fall below.”
OINK OINK OINK OINK OINK…
>
>   /]=———————————————————————=[\
>  [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html
> [%]
>   \]=———————————————————————=[/
>
>
>

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

_________________________________________________________________
The new MSN Search Toolbar now includes Desktop search! http://join.msn.com/toolbar/overview

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: “Paul Brookshaw” <jiggy9@hotmail.co.uk>
Subject: [Ibogaine] Needs Need, Must must. There is no want in the Kingdom!!!
Date: April 6, 2006 at 5:39:27 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi folks,
Just thought I’d add my 6 eggs to this dreaded equation of Addiction.
Hi bro,
You know the answers people. Give up. Take it very easy on the Benzos though cos they are a reall bitch. I pray that you find the strenght my friends, cos i know you know. So what you have to do is take the time and give up.
But you must prepare. You need to be healthy. Start by coming down a bit on the gear. I know it hurts, but we are not strangers to pain. I just got sick of the pain of pleasure and the pain of pains pain. Broken needle in my purple vein and all that shit. You all know, you can totally hit number one with the bullet but totally miss the mark. You got to take time for you cos self love is not selfish. I got to fix my freaking key bourd as I have mashed out the keys JPR. My head blew when i realised what I done. Do you read the bible. If not do it. Use the tools available, look after yourself.
I know you require your job for sustanance, but you have to consider your health comes first. You can only be as good in your work as much as you can put on bourd that is clean and healthy. You are what you eat and take. The despare you feel is natural as you want out but do not give yourself time to recover.
I still hurt, but am getting stronger. The Iboga brings out the femanine side of you and makes you care for yourself. As long as you don’t use after, you will recover, how long that is anyones guess. We are all different. We have to learn to break our mind sets, and stomp the world for what it is. You can tare down all the Governments and you can tare down the police, but you still won’t find release, unless you believe in God.
You have been given a thorn in your side a messenger of Satan, that you may not be exhaulted above messure by the abundance of revalations.
I see you want to get out but you are the one that is not letting yourself go.
Take this onbourd people, friends and brothers and sisters and pray it all the time in times of trouble and strife.
GOD, GRANT ME THE SERENITY TO ACCEPT THE THINGS I CANNOT CHANGE. CHANGE THE THINGS I CAN, AND LORD GIVE ME THE WISDOM TO KNOW THE DIFFERENCE. Rome was not built in a day, so you cannot expect to get there in one day. Maybe not even in one life time, either. this a pure spiritual walk. Mans mind is stupid as he leans to switch off the feelings he does not like with Opiates and Downers and Alcahol then has to change the set with uppers to stay awake. No wonder you feel so out of sink. lololol
Look  and take good stock of what you really have in your life. Praise GOD for what you already have and do not look to what you do not,. Vain imaginings. You know, cos you wouldn’t of wrote other wise. The truth is a real bitch to hanndle, but in the end it all sots itself out. The truth shall set you free, you only have to learn to forgive yourself for all the self destruction. Be good to yourself and stay cool, take it easy and eat good food and drink the water.
Create fo yourself yourr own Garden of eaden.

Strength, Power and Honour shall lead you to respect yourself. Love and Peace.
Paul:)/~’         Remeber Selah’            I am a MAN!!!
GOD is GOOD, ALL THE  TIME. Blessings from Norwich England.

_________________________________________________________________
Be the first to hear what’s new at MSN – sign up to our free newsletters! http://www.msn.co.uk/newsletters

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: Kirk <captkirk@clear.net.nz>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] made out of meat
Date: April 5, 2006 at 11:50:52 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

YES AND people responded to him and GOT eaten!!!!
Makes me appear rather “normal” woteva that is I’m not really sure anymore.
But whatever makes ya milk curdle I guess……

—–Original Message—–
From: jon [mailto:jon@mindvox.com]
Sent: Thursday, 6 April 2006 3:06 p.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] made out of meat

didja hear about that cannibal a year or two ago in germany that
solicited on the internet for a “dinner”?

some guy acquiesed… and before the cannabil killed him and ate the
rest of him, they fried up the guys dick and shared it!

no lie….ehe. i couldn’t even make something like that up…ehehe

Alan Hehe wrote:
*/ Hey—/*From: Crooked Eye
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

<http://by105fd.bay105.hotmail.msn.com/cgi-bin/compose?curmbox=1DAE40D2-E72A
-440F-8CD8-5887419D4B76&a=7352142387daa1dae2e302b8c9e9ada052c39ace3144b835bc
62db62eefbe5e8&mailto=1&to=ibogaine@mindvox.com&msg=84175D8D-A6E5-4586-9FA8-
562F216DCC16&start=0&len=29979&src=&type=x>
Sent: Tuesday, April 04, 2006 3:53 AM
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Whats a Republican?

Cow’s are tasty…  If we aren’t supposed to eat animals, then why are
they
made out of meat?

Well, Crooked Eye, we’re made out of meat, too, and some tribes like
to eat us..they call human flesh “long pork”…So you must think
cannibalism’s okay too, right?

————————————————————————
See if you’ve won, play MSN Search and Win
<http://g.msn.com/8HMBENUS/2752??PS=47575>

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands:
http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]

\]=———————————————————————=[/

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html
[%]

\]=———————————————————————=[/

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: jon <jon@mindvox.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] made out of meat
Date: April 5, 2006 at 11:06:20 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

didja hear about that cannibal a year or two ago in germany that solicited on the internet for a “dinner”?

some guy acquiesed… and before the cannabil killed him and ate the rest of him, they fried up the guys dick and shared it!

no lie….ehe. i couldn’t even make something like that up…ehehe

Alan Hehe wrote:
*/ Hey—/*From: Crooked Eye
> To: ibogaine@mindvox.com <http://by105fd.bay105.hotmail.msn.com/cgi-bin/compose?curmbox=1DAE40D2-E72A-440F-8CD8-5887419D4B76&a=7352142387daa1dae2e302b8c9e9ada052c39ace3144b835bc62db62eefbe5e8&mailto=1&to=ibogaine@mindvox.com&msg=84175D8D-A6E5-4586-9FA8-562F216DCC16&start=0&len=29979&src=&type=x>
> Sent: Tuesday, April 04, 2006 3:53 AM
> Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Whats a Republican?
>
>
> Cow’s are tasty…  If we aren’t supposed to eat animals, then why are
> they
> made out of meat?      Well, Crooked Eye, we’re made out of meat, too, and some tribes like to eat us..they call human flesh “long pork”…So you must think cannibalism’s okay too, right?
————————————————————————
See if you’ve won, play MSN Search and Win <http://g.msn.com/8HMBENUS/2752??PS=47575> /]=———————————————————————=[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%] \]=———————————————————————=[/

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: Crooked Eye <iboganaut420@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] OT! Eating cattle or food
Date: April 5, 2006 at 11:05:15 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

CrookedEye stands and applauds…

jon <jon@mindvox.com> wrote:
oh that’s cool… i mean you know, eat whatever you want to eat and
don’t eat whatever you don’t wanna eat.

it’s just the vegetarians that think they’re somehow superior because
they don’t eat meat that irk me. it’s a personal choice, and nothing
more than that… no big moral dilema.. it’s just whatcha like putting
in your mouth =)

Preston Peet wrote:
> I don’t eat clams or much of any type of sea food for a lot longer than
> I’ve been vegitarian btw. That’s because, despite having grown up in a
> beachtown, my first job(s) being at Walt’s Fish Market in Sarasota on US
> 41 (or maybe that’s part of the reason come to think of it), I hate sea
> food, fish, etc…other than for stone crab and lobster. Those were
> kinda tough to give up actually.
> I hadn’t thought about potatos’ eyes, either. Thanks a lot Jon, now
> what am I gonna do?
> And to be frank, I don’t care about those “fine lines” between plants
> and animals in the slightest. I know what moves me and what I feel
> empathy for, just as I can see with my own eyes what creatures move
> about, walk, swim, lick, cuddle, and which don’t. This isn’t belittling
> plants in the slightest, but it’s a bit tougher for me to worry about
> the plants being eaten than it is for animals and How They Are
> Raised/Penned/Slaughtered/PeeledAlive/etc. Cest la vie.
>
> —–
> “If God dropped acid, would he see people?” ~Steven Wright
>
> Peace, love and lotsof respect.
> Preston Peet
> ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
> Editor Underground- the Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations,
> Astonishing Archaeology and Hidden History
> Editor Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs
> Editor http://www.drugwar.com
> Columnist HighTimes mag/.com
> Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
> Columnist New York Waste
> Etc.
>
> —– Original Message —– From:
> To:
> Sent: Wednesday, April 05, 2006 2:24 PM
> Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] OT! Eating cattle or food
>
>
>> potatoes have eyes too =P
>>
>> i remember this punk song about how silly it is that vegetarians, for
>> example, don’t eat clams… because clams have essentially the same kind
>> of nervous system as broccoli and cauliflower…
>>
>> the line between plant and animal is not an entirely clear one.. and the
>> decision to eat plants but not animals seems to me a pretty arbitrary
>> one.
>> plants are living, breathing, and to some degree, thinking creatures as
>> well. but they get no love from PETA…
>>
>> i guess my basic point is.. eat whatever you’re comfortable with. but
>> realise that whatever you eat, ANYTHING you eat, inflicts suffering on
>> some creature.
>>
>> such is the nature of life.
>>
>>
>> ahaha… speaking of PETA, i saw the best bumper sticker a couple weeks
>> ago….eheh… it said:
>>
>> “PETA – People Eating Tasty Animals”
>>
>> =)
>>
>> oh, and one more thing… as for the whole pet vs. food argument… i
>> know
>> for a fact that if my cat ever got the chance, he would totally eat
>> me. so
>> i don’t wanna hear it.. =P
>>
>>
>>> for me eating meat in a society where it’s unnecessary merely
>>> promotes the
>>> fear/bloodthirsty addiction so prevalent in the Western world. I can see
>>> eating meat in a society where there are no alternatives, but where I
>>> live
>>> it’s easy to not eat meat, and I’m glad.
>>> I still do dairy and eggs, but can’t eat anything that might lick it’s
>>> fellow beings, or nuzzle them, or communicate in any way, shape or form
>>> with
>>> one another, even chickens (which I’ve been told are ok to eat because
>>> “they’re stupid.” If that were the only criteria for being ok to eat,
>>> I’d
>>> be
>>> a cannibal). Again, this is only my own viewpoint, but there seems to be
>>> something unenlightened, to me, how some folk can have “pets” but call
>>> cattle mere “food,” making no connection to the living, breathing,
>>> thinking
>>> creatures sharing the planet with us.
>>>
>>> Butt, and it’s a great big butt, I can’t really fault anyone for their
>>> eating habits beyond stating how I personally feel, particularly about
>>> factory farming, inhumane treatment of our “food” and the wonton
>>> slaughter
>>> of living creatures when it isn’t necessary for our survival, only to
>>> feed
>>> our addiction to blood and flesh these days (Of course one couuld take
>>> this
>>> to extreme and tell me plants are also living, but I limit my empathy
>>> and
>>> eating ban to beings with eys I guess).
>>> That’s because I’m…pro-choice at heart.
>>>
>>> —–
>>> “If God dropped acid, would he see people?” ~Steven Wright
>>>
>>> Peace, love and lotsof respect.
>>> Preston Peet
>>> ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
>>> Editor Underground- the Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations,
>>> Astonishing Archaeology and Hidden History
>>> Editor Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs
>>> Editor http://www.drugwar.com
>>> Columnist HighTimes mag/.com
>>> Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
>>> Columnist New York Waste
>>> Etc.
>>>
>>> —– Original Message —–
>>> From: Crooked Eye
>>> To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
>>> Sent: Tuesday, April 04, 2006 3:53 AM
>>> Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Whats a Republican?
>>>
>>>
>>> Cow’s are tasty… If we aren’t supposed to eat animals, then why are
>>> they
>>> made out of meat? 😀 I fail how to see eating cows equates to
>>> racism…
>>> I
>>> eat a lot of cows, but I have a mixed family… If it makes you feel
>>> any
>>> better we eat a lot of chickens, too.. I love turkey, the tryptophan
>>> makes
>>> me sleepy…
>>>
>>> Alan Hehe wrote:
>>> Don’t call me Baby…well, you can…since you’re not close enough
>>> for
>>> me
>>> to do anything about it! Plus, that’s a freedom, too…Just like my
>>> ability
>>> to talk about pro-choice. As for your information, no, I don’t think the
>>> way
>>> the abortion system is set up–but I absolutely believe in having the
>>> right…And no, you don’t have 9 months to decide whether to have the
>>> rug
>>> rat or not–there is a cut-off, a limit to when abortions can be
>>> performed.
>>> And so you think, because cows aren’t pets, or aren’t ‘cute’, then
>>> it’s
>>> okay to torture them? And to cut the balls of bulls off without any
>>> anesthetic? To make chickens live in a cage so small they can barely
>>> turn
>>> around? And George Bush–wanting to save lives! LOL! That’s the biggest
>>> joke
>>> I’ve ever heard! But it figures; you’re not special..alot of the
>>> people in
>>> this country are brain-washed by the constant disinformation they are
>>> fed….Why do you think there are a hundred commercials warning of the
>>> dangers of marijuana, one of the least harmful drugs known to man,
>>> but yet
>>> maybe one out of those hundred about the truly dangerous drugs, like
>>> H or
>>> Coke?
>>> And you don’t have to be a hindu to have compassion for animals
>>> other
>>> than cats and dogs, you dumb-ass red-neck! In some places they eat
>>> dogs…would that be okay if they ate your dog? You know, I’m totally
>>> wasting my time talking to you, I can already tell that you are way
>>> undereducated, extremely prejudiced. Cows are just food. Are blacks just
>>> niggers, too? God, I can’t stand fuckin’ red-necks like you, especially
>>> the
>>> ones that actually think they’re smart. Once you start doing away with
>>> freedoms, it’s all down-hill. Who’s going to decide what’s right and
>>> wrong?
>>> You?! I would happily put a hollow-point 45 shell into my head if that
>>> possibility existed..of course G.W.B. is quite the redneck himself,
>>> which
>>> is
>>> why you probably like him. First of all, HE’s not fighting for
>>> anything. I
>>> have respect for the soldiers; they don’t decide the mission, they
>>> just do
>>> what they’re told. And how many babies do you think die while we were
>>> waging
>>> a war we were totally lied to about? Or is that okay? You think the
>>> babies
>>> over there even know what a terrorist is? This world is already
>>> over-populated..if people like you ran things, the world would run
>>> out of
>>> resources within a decade! The oh so precious children! Everyone starts
>>> out
>>> as a child..some people, like you, remain one, in their minds, their
>>> whole
>>> life. But those sweet children often grow up to be killers and rapists,
>>> and
>>> often for no apparent reason! Strong belief does only one thing: close
>>> your
>>> mind. Boy, that ibogaine is gonna have fun with you!!!!! Cows are just
>>> food!
>>> Well, we’re just food, too…if a grizzly decides you look good! God,
>>> what
>>> egotism! You claim to be a Christian (I do not) but you must have
>>> misssed
>>> the part about not judging lest you be judged yourself…And I bet ibo’s
>>> gonna drive that one home with a psychoactive sledgehammer! You’ve got
>>> your
>>> response, but I really no longer wish to talk with you. I’ve spent too
>>> much
>>> time arguing with all the fascists on this list, instead of hanging out
>>> with
>>> the cool, in the know ,people: by that meaning knowing that the whole
>>> Govt.
>>> is totally corrupt, actually controlled by a few wealthy and extremely
>>> powerful people, and they constantly just feed us disinformation, while
>>> manipulating the world through economic control, etc, and alot of other
>>> things you wouldn’t understand. BYE< NOW, Billy BOY. Go get a burger!
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> From: “Billy J”
>>> Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
>>> To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
>>> Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Whats a Republican?
>>> Date: Tue, 04 Apr 2006 02:19:25 -0400
>>>
>>>> Hear this peace and take it to your Heart FRIEND.
>>>> 1st if we go back to Killing kids for the sins of their fathers
>>>> (Child of a Rapist) Do you think that is more civilized then Raising
>>>> Cattle for food,(Cattle are food “not Pets”) although you may be
>>>> from India or somewhere that they worship your cows and even there
>>>> fecal matter I hear! Now if your are at that junkger(Place) then I
>>>> will have to say -well Al, Bless you, but when was the last time you
>>>> had your precious cow go to war for YOUR FREEDOMS that I am sure you
>>>> are enjoying- Yes?
>>>> Allan , do you really love cows (the 4 legged ones that is) or
>>>> are you in your 2nd or 3rd reincarnation and you where once a cow
>>>> and you have come into this wierd mooing stage and you just could
>>>> not figure it out.
>>>> Ok That is sarcasm – Sorry< I’ll get serious.
>>>> Oh Ya Your aborting a fetus-, and yes I know that in the USof A
>>>> being the most civilized Nation that has usually voted anti-
>>>> Christian ( just in case somebody didn’t let Everybody do what FEELs
>>>> GOOD)
>>>> Ya you can Have sex with anybody you want and then if a girl gets
>>>> pregnant, or do you call it fetus something, oh well so shes
>>>> pregnant you have 9 months to decide whether or not you what the
>>>> little BLOB Because your fetus can be kicking up a storm and as long
>>>> as you can keep its stupid( oh it,s brain isn’t functioning yet
>>>> ,right) well as long as you can keep its head inside the grown up
>>>> fetus ( that would be the female, The pregnant one, knocked up one ,
>>>> dumb one what ever you would call someone like that ( Maybe MOM)
>>>> well just reach in and CRUSH ITS SCULL and or STICK A SYRINGE INTO
>>>> THe Back of it HEAD JUST UNTIL ITS STOPS PUTTINGN UP A FIGHT, AND
>>>> they do fight Allan, just go and ask your abortion doctor.– PARTIAL
>>>> BIRTH ABORTION– VERY NICE–
>>>> oH YA AND YOU KNOW WHAT ALLY BABY THAT STUPID WAR MOGER THAT YOU
>>>> HAVE AS A PRESIDENT WOULD LIKE NOTHING MORE THAN TO SAVE PEOPLE BUT
>>>> ALL YOU PEOPLE THAT GOD GAVE YOU FREE CHOICE HAVE DECIDED TO VOTE
>>>> FOR THE REAL KILLERS-
>>>> Have you any clue how many of your fetuses are done away with
>>>> each year in the USA alone,, Allan Baby– way way more in 1 year
>>>> than have been killed in ALL the World wars— How many do you think
>>>> are rape and how many are just another form of birth control,, Your
>>>> Planned Parenthood is a multi-Billion dollar industry that fights
>>>> for you to have the freedom to get rid of your Babies- But They do
>>>> not do it for free– They are rich.One more thing if we can justify
>>>> killing because you THINK they don’t feel pain- Why not line up all
>>>> us addicts right after a good whack and while we are feeling no pain
>>>> BANG-
>>>> Save a lot of tax dollars- The Meth Clinics would be Pissed though.
>>>>
>>>> Love Ya!
>>>>
>>>> Just Don’t say it is OK To Kill My Children- Or Yours
>>>>
>>>> B
>>>>
>>>> —-Original Message Follows—-
>>>> From: “Alan Hehe”
>>>> Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
>>>> To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
>>>> Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] RE: [Pornography,psychology,Choice,force,) 2
>>>> cents
>>>> Date: Tue, 04 Apr 2006 01:25:21 -0400
>>>> MIME-Version: 1.0
>>>> Received: from tomts30-srv.bellnexxia.net ([209.226.175.104]) by
>>>> bay0-pamc1-f3.bay0.hotmail.com with Microsoft
>>>> SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Mon, 3 Apr 2006 22:27:22 -0700
>>>> Received: from toip4.bellnexxia.net ([209.226.175.87]) by
>>>> tomts30-srv.bellnexxia.net (InterMail vM.5.01.06.13
>>>> 201-253-122-130-113-20050324) with ESMTP id
>>>> <20060404052721.IXFI18550.tomts30-srv.bellnexxia.net@toip4.bellnexxia.net>
>>>>
>>>> for ; Tue, 4 Apr 2006 01:27:21
>>>> -0400
>>>> Received: from tanelorn.mindvox.com (HELO mail.mindvox.com)
>>>> ([64.124.179.118]) by toip4.bellnexxia.net with ESMTP; 04 Apr 2006
>>>> 01:27:16 -0400
>>>> Received: (qmail 1073 invoked by uid 513); 4 Apr 2006 01:27:15 -0400
>>>> Received: (qmail 1067 invoked by uid 514); 4 Apr 2006 01:27:15 -0400
>>>> X-Message-Info: moY6YVwXQ46hfM+PXD+r03SFMVOY3E1daJYU/Sm1Nkw=
>>>> Mailing-List: contact ibogaine-help@mindvox.com; run by ezmlm
>>>> Precedence: bulk
>>>> X-No-Archive: yes
>>>> List-Post:
>>>> List-Help:
>>>> List-Unsubscribe:
>>>> List-Subscribe:
>>>> Delivered-To: mailing list ibogaine@mindvox.com
>>>> X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.1 required=4.0
>>>> X-Antivirus-MYDOMAIN-Mail-From: a.h.veil68@hotmail.com via
>>>> tanelorn.mindvox.com
>>>> X-Antivirus-MYDOMAIN: 1.25-st-qms
>>>> (Clear:RC:0(65.54.224.26):SA:0(-2.1/4.0):. Processed in 8.08646 secs
>>>> Process 1055)
>>>> Return-Path:
>>>> ibogaine-return-23280-billjohnson6=sympatico.ca@mindvox.com
>>>> X-OriginalArrivalTime: 04 Apr 2006 05:27:22.0868 (UTC)
>>>> FILETIME=[7363CB40:01C657A8]
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I gotta take a piece of this one. Okay, Mr. Anti-choice, let me
>>>> ask you this: do you eat meat? If not, then good for you. If so,
>>>> have you ever though about the actual, truly painful, totally
>>>> inhumane treatment we put animals through? And usually don’t think
>>>> twice about it…It’s people like George Bush who make me wish
>>>> sometimes that God would hurl an asteroid at us! It’s “God forbid
>>>> one human foetus (who does not feel a thing if the abortion is done
>>>> in a timely manner, according to the latest research, because their
>>>> nervous system isn’t nearly fully developed) should perish, no
>>>> matter if it was caused by a rape or is probably going to be born
>>>> into alot of suffering–but while I’m on my high horse, cut me a
>>>> piece o that cow off and cook it up! It’s sheer egotism that we
>>>> believe that humans are so damned
>>>> important, but it’s okay if we torture animals, ruin the planet, and
>>>> make other people adhere to our beliefs!!! We’re not that important!
>>>> And if you believe in a God and the soul, then you know that–if the
>>>> foetus even has a soul yet, which I don’t believe it does..I believe
>>>> the soul enters with the first breath, and leaves with the
>>>> last–that baby is just going back into the arms of God! There is no
>>>> death! And since they don’t experience pain, all it becomes is
>>>> something for people like you to feel self righteous about!
>>>> Personally, I think everyone should smoke pot, and would benefit
>>>> from it (except for a few cases), but how would you like it if I
>>>> MADE you smoke it? That is, if you don’t, and don’t like it. Or
>>>> let’s say you eat meat, but I think it’s just as evil to do that as
>>>> to allow abortions, so I outlawed meat–would that be okay with you?
>>>> And the cliff analogy is just stupid–not
>>>> the same thing at all. But yes, I think if a person is truly
>>>> miserable, and wants to die, I would try to talk them out of it, but
>>>> I would never stop them by force. That’s called LACK OF FREEDOM. And
>>>> if we didn’t make mistakes, how would we ever learn? To be told
>>>> something is wrong is one thing..you can tell a person, fire will
>>>> burn you..but until they get burned, they will not truly understand,
>>>> and that’s what life is all about–learning. No, I don’t like to see
>>>> foetus’ abortions–I think prevention is the answer….But
>>>> sometimes, I believe it is ‘the best choice’. If everyone like you
>>>> had their way, there really would be NO ROOM AT ALL left!!! We’re
>>>> already sooo over-populated! It’s like I heard some character say in
>>>> a movie recently..”everybody’s kids are so special…it makes you
>>>> wonder where all the normal adults come from”. Even God believes in
>>>> freedom of choice! That’s why he gave
>>>> us FREE WILL. You’re a Republican, aren’t you? And you probably
>>>> think that war-mongering asshole of a President is the best-thing
>>>> since sliced bread, eh? It’s okay to kill, as long as it’s not a
>>>> precious child…even though that child may grow up to be The Son of
>>>> Sam! well…”take me by the ham, no good, no evil, no give a
>>>> damn!” And the Govt. is lying to you! About just about everything.
>>>> Peace, love, and freedom. Life is too mysterious to take it so
>>>> serious!
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> From: “Billy J”
>>>> Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
>>>> To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
>>>> Subject: [Ibogaine] RE: [Pornography,psychology,Choice,force,) 2
>>>> cents
>>>> Date: Sun, 02 Apr 2006 21:45:39 -0400
>>>> >Well It sounds like this place is really mixing it up so I would
>>>> >like to add a little REALITY TO YOU PRO CHOICERS, I am sure glad I
>>>> >was not an abortion’ althought I have had my moments.
>>>> >Yes My Mom was a young Mom and if she had a choice I think that I
>>>> >would have no Grandkids, or be babbleing on here.
>>>> > I too have an attitude, It is about the only thing in this
>>>> >world that I really have control over.
>>>> >Tiger– How well did you do with making ALL your own Choices,
>>>> >Instead of doing
>>>> what your were told to do? Not meant to be a shot
>>>> >at you personally, but I am with the Right or Wrong crowd- No such
>>>> >thing as grey.
>>>> > I do know that some people may have grown up believing that
>>>> wrong
>>>> >was right and right was wrong, but I Think that I pretty much knew
>>>> >when I was stepping out of line and doing wrong.
>>>> >It is (as most believe) My God , no not God, but My worldly given
>>>> >Right- to do wrong- It’s my life and if I want to screw it up then
>>>> >stay out of my way. And you know what I had a lot of sooo called
>>>> >friends that did just that WATCHED, AS i WAS Killing myself and
>>>> >ruining a lot of lifes.
>>>> >But O O O never no no no neverdare step on somebodys toes because
>>>> >you know what they have a choice, Just like those poor little
>>>> Crack
>>>> >%$^&%$ Women that degrade themselves( and me
>>>> myself) due to
>>>> >everybody. But Never No No Never dare tell somebody or force
>>>> someone
>>>> >to get some help that they may never ever make it to on their own,
>>>> >due to something called “Pride” “Shame” “Guilt”
>>>> >Whatever holds them back. They may end up DEAD and it would be
>>>> their
>>>> >own fault, because you know how STRONG us druggies are, and if
>>>> that
>>>> >person dies because he had a choice to get help and refused or
>>>> just
>>>> >couldn’t make it on his/her own and needed YOU (of course they

=== message truncated ===

Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. PC-to-Phone calls for ridiculously low rates.

From: jon <jon@mindvox.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] OT! Eating cattle or food
Date: April 5, 2006 at 11:03:44 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

oh that’s cool… i mean you know, eat whatever you want to eat and don’t eat whatever you don’t wanna eat.

it’s just the vegetarians that think they’re somehow superior because they don’t eat meat that irk me. it’s a personal choice, and nothing more than that… no big moral dilema.. it’s just whatcha like putting in your mouth =)

Preston Peet wrote:
I don’t eat clams or much of any type of sea food for a lot longer than I’ve been vegitarian btw. That’s because, despite having grown up in a beachtown, my first job(s) being at Walt’s Fish Market in Sarasota on US 41 (or maybe that’s part of the reason come to think of it), I hate sea food, fish, etc…other than for stone crab and lobster. Those were kinda tough to give up actually.
I hadn’t thought about potatos’ eyes, either. Thanks a lot Jon, now what am I gonna do?
And to be frank, I don’t care about those “fine lines” between plants and animals in the slightest. I know what moves me and what I feel empathy for, just as I can see with my own eyes what creatures move about, walk, swim, lick, cuddle, and which don’t. This isn’t belittling plants in the slightest, but it’s a bit tougher for me to worry about the plants being eaten than it is for animals and How They Are Raised/Penned/Slaughtered/PeeledAlive/etc. Cest la vie.
—–
“If God dropped acid, would he see people?”  ~Steven Wright
Peace, love and lotsof respect.
Preston Peet
ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor Underground- the Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations, Astonishing Archaeology and Hidden History
Editor Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Columnist HighTimes mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.
—– Original Message —– From: <jon@mindvox.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Wednesday, April 05, 2006 2:24 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] OT! Eating cattle or food
potatoes have eyes too =P

i remember this punk song about how silly it is that vegetarians, for
example, don’t eat clams… because clams have essentially the same kind
of nervous system as broccoli and cauliflower…

the line between plant and animal is not an entirely clear one.. and the
decision to eat plants but not animals seems to me a pretty arbitrary one.
plants are living, breathing, and to some degree, thinking creatures as
well. but they get no love from PETA…

i guess my basic point is.. eat whatever you’re comfortable with. but
realise that whatever you eat, ANYTHING you eat, inflicts suffering on
some creature.

such is the nature of life.

ahaha… speaking of PETA, i saw the best bumper sticker a couple weeks
ago….eheh… it said:

“PETA – People Eating Tasty Animals”

=)

oh, and one more thing… as for the whole pet vs. food argument… i know
for a fact that if my cat ever got the chance, he would totally eat me. so
i don’t wanna hear it.. =P

for me eating meat in a society where it’s unnecessary merely promotes the
fear/bloodthirsty addiction so prevalent in the Western world. I can see
eating meat in a society where there are no alternatives, but where I live
it’s easy to not eat meat, and I’m glad.
I still do dairy and eggs, but can’t eat anything that might lick it’s
fellow beings, or nuzzle them, or communicate in any way, shape or form
with
one another, even chickens (which I’ve been told are ok to eat because
“they’re stupid.” If that were the only criteria for being ok to eat, I’d
be
a cannibal). Again, this is only my own viewpoint, but there seems to be
something unenlightened, to me, how some folk can have “pets” but call
cattle mere “food,” making no connection to the living, breathing,
thinking
creatures sharing the planet with us.

Butt, and it’s a great big butt, I can’t really fault anyone for their
eating habits beyond stating how I personally feel, particularly about
factory farming, inhumane treatment of our “food” and the wonton slaughter
of living creatures when it isn’t necessary for our survival, only to feed
our addiction to blood and flesh these days (Of course one couuld take
this
to extreme and tell me plants are also living, but I limit my empathy and
eating ban to beings with eys I guess).
That’s because I’m…pro-choice at heart.

—–
“If God dropped acid, would he see people?”  ~Steven Wright

Peace, love and lotsof respect.
Preston Peet
ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor Underground- the Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations,
Astonishing Archaeology and Hidden History
Editor Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Columnist HighTimes mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —–
From: Crooked Eye
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Tuesday, April 04, 2006 3:53 AM
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Whats a Republican?

Cow’s are tasty…  If we aren’t supposed to eat animals, then why are
they
made out of meat?  😀  I fail how to see eating cows equates to racism…
I
eat a lot of cows, but I have a mixed family…  If it makes you feel any
better we eat a lot of chickens, too..  I love turkey, the tryptophan
makes
me sleepy…

Alan Hehe <a.h.veil68@hotmail.com> wrote:
Don’t call me Baby…well, you can…since you’re not close enough for
me
to do anything about it! Plus, that’s a freedom, too…Just like my
ability
to talk about pro-choice. As for your information, no, I don’t think the
way
the abortion system is set up–but I absolutely believe in having the
right…And no, you don’t have 9 months to decide whether to have the rug
rat or not–there is a cut-off, a limit to when abortions can be
performed.
And so you think, because cows aren’t pets, or aren’t ‘cute’, then
it’s
okay to torture them? And to cut the balls of bulls off without any
anesthetic? To make chickens live in a cage so small they can barely turn
around? And George Bush–wanting to save lives! LOL! That’s the biggest
joke
I’ve ever heard! But it figures; you’re not special..alot of the people in
this country are brain-washed by the constant disinformation they are
fed….Why do you think there are a hundred commercials warning of the
dangers of marijuana, one of the least harmful drugs known to man, but yet
maybe one out of those hundred about the truly dangerous drugs, like H or
Coke?
And you don’t have to be a hindu to have compassion for animals
other
than cats and dogs, you dumb-ass red-neck! In some places they eat
dogs…would that be okay if they ate your dog? You know, I’m totally
wasting my time talking to you, I can already tell that you are way
undereducated, extremely prejudiced. Cows are just food. Are blacks just
niggers, too? God, I can’t stand fuckin’ red-necks like you, especially
the
ones that actually think they’re smart. Once you start doing away with
freedoms, it’s all down-hill. Who’s going to decide what’s right and
wrong?
You?! I would happily put a hollow-point 45 shell into my head if that
possibility existed..of course G.W.B. is quite the redneck himself, which
is
why you probably like him. First of all, HE’s not fighting for anything. I
have respect for the soldiers; they don’t decide the mission, they just do
what they’re told. And how many babies do you think die while we were
waging
a war we were totally lied to about? Or is that okay? You think the babies
over there even know what a terrorist is? This world is already
over-populated..if people like you ran things, the world would run out of
resources within a decade! The oh so precious children! Everyone starts
out
as a child..some people, like you, remain one, in their minds, their whole
life. But those sweet children often grow up to be killers and rapists,
and
often for no apparent reason!  Strong belief does only one thing: close
your
mind. Boy, that ibogaine is gonna have fun with you!!!!! Cows are just
food!
Well, we’re just food, too…if a grizzly decides you look good! God, what
egotism!  You claim to be a Christian (I do not) but you must have misssed
the part about not judging lest you be judged yourself…And I bet ibo’s
gonna drive that one home with a psychoactive sledgehammer! You’ve got
your
response, but I really no longer wish to talk with you. I’ve spent too
much
time arguing with all the fascists on this list, instead of hanging out
with
the cool, in the know ,people: by that meaning knowing that the whole
Govt.
is totally corrupt, actually controlled by a few wealthy and extremely
powerful people, and they constantly just feed us disinformation, while
manipulating the world through economic control, etc, and alot of other
things you wouldn’t understand. BYE< NOW, Billy BOY. Go get a burger!

From:  “Billy J” <billjohnson6@sympatico.ca>
Reply-To:  ibogaine@mindvox.com
To:  ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject:  RE: [Ibogaine] Whats a Republican?
Date:  Tue, 04 Apr 2006 02:19:25 -0400

Hear this peace and take it to your Heart FRIEND.
1st if we go back to Killing kids for the sins of their fathers
(Child of a Rapist) Do you think that is more civilized then Raising
Cattle for food,(Cattle are food “not Pets”) although you may be
from India or somewhere that they worship your cows and even there
fecal matter I hear! Now if your are at that junkger(Place) then I
will have to say -well Al, Bless you, but when was the last time you
had your precious cow go to war for YOUR FREEDOMS that I am sure you
are enjoying- Yes?
Allan , do you really love cows (the 4 legged ones that is) or
are you in your 2nd or 3rd reincarnation and you where once a cow
and you have come into this wierd mooing stage and you just could
not figure it out.
Ok That is sarcasm – Sorry< I’ll get serious.
Oh Ya Your aborting a fetus-, and yes I know that in the USof A
being the most civilized Nation that has usually voted anti-
Christian ( just in case somebody didn’t let Everybody do what FEELs
GOOD)
Ya you can Have sex with anybody you want and then if a girl gets
pregnant, or do you call it fetus something, oh well  so shes
pregnant you have 9 months to decide whether or not you what the
little BLOB Because your fetus can be kicking up a storm and as long
as you can keep its stupid( oh it,s brain isn’t functioning yet
,right) well as long as you can keep its head inside the grown up
fetus ( that would be the female, The pregnant one, knocked up one ,
dumb one what ever you would call someone like that ( Maybe MOM)
well just reach in and CRUSH ITS SCULL and or STICK A SYRINGE INTO
THe Back of it HEAD JUST UNTIL ITS STOPS PUTTINGN UP A FIGHT, AND
they do fight Allan, just go and ask your abortion doctor.– PARTIAL
BIRTH ABORTION– VERY NICE–
oH YA AND YOU KNOW WHAT ALLY BABY THAT STUPID WAR MOGER THAT YOU
HAVE AS A PRESIDENT WOULD LIKE NOTHING MORE THAN TO SAVE PEOPLE BUT
ALL YOU PEOPLE THAT GOD GAVE YOU FREE CHOICE HAVE DECIDED TO VOTE
FOR THE REAL KILLERS-
Have you any clue how many of your fetuses are done away with
each year in the USA alone,, Allan Baby– way way more in 1 year
than have been killed in ALL the World wars— How many do you think
are rape and how many are just another form of birth control,, Your
Planned Parenthood is a multi-Billion dollar industry that fights
for you to have the freedom to get rid of your Babies- But They do
not do it for free– They are rich.One more thing if we can justify
killing because you THINK they don’t feel pain- Why not line up all
us addicts right after a good whack and while we are feeling no pain
BANG-
Save a lot of tax dollars- The Meth Clinics would be Pissed though.

Love Ya!

Just Don’t say it is OK To Kill My Children- Or Yours

B

—-Original Message Follows—-
From: “Alan Hehe” <a.h.veil68@hotmail.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] RE: [Pornography,psychology,Choice,force,) 2
cents
Date: Tue, 04 Apr 2006 01:25:21 -0400
MIME-Version: 1.0
Received: from tomts30-srv.bellnexxia.net ([209.226.175.104]) by
bay0-pamc1-f3.bay0.hotmail.com with Microsoft
SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Mon, 3 Apr 2006 22:27:22 -0700
Received: from toip4.bellnexxia.net ([209.226.175.87])          by
tomts30-srv.bellnexxia.net          (InterMail vM.5.01.06.13
201-253-122-130-113-20050324) with ESMTP          id
<20060404052721.IXFI18550.tomts30-srv.bellnexxia.net@toip4.bellnexxia.net>
for <billjohnson6@sympatico.ca>; Tue, 4 Apr 2006 01:27:21
-0400
Received: from tanelorn.mindvox.com (HELO mail.mindvox.com)
([64.124.179.118])  by toip4.bellnexxia.net with ESMTP; 04 Apr 2006
01:27:16 -0400
Received: (qmail 1073 invoked by uid 513); 4 Apr 2006 01:27:15 -0400
Received: (qmail 1067 invoked by uid 514); 4 Apr 2006 01:27:15 -0400
X-Message-Info: moY6YVwXQ46hfM+PXD+r03SFMVOY3E1daJYU/Sm1Nkw=
Mailing-List: contact ibogaine-help@mindvox.com; run by ezmlm
Precedence: bulk
X-No-Archive: yes
List-Post: <mailto:ibogaine@mindvox.com>
List-Help: <mailto:ibogaine-help@mindvox.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:ibogaine-unsubscribe@mindvox.com>
List-Subscribe: <mailto:ibogaine-subscribe@mindvox.com>
Delivered-To: mailing list ibogaine@mindvox.com
X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.1 required=4.0
X-Antivirus-MYDOMAIN-Mail-From: a.h.veil68@hotmail.com via
tanelorn.mindvox.com
X-Antivirus-MYDOMAIN: 1.25-st-qms
(Clear:RC:0(65.54.224.26):SA:0(-2.1/4.0):. Processed in 8.08646 secs
Process 1055)
Return-Path:
ibogaine-return-23280-billjohnson6=sympatico.ca@mindvox.com
X-OriginalArrivalTime: 04 Apr 2006 05:27:22.0868 (UTC)
FILETIME=[7363CB40:01C657A8]

I gotta take a piece of this one. Okay, Mr. Anti-choice, let me
ask you this: do you eat meat? If not, then good for you. If so,
have you ever though about the actual, truly painful, totally
inhumane treatment we put animals through? And usually don’t think
twice about it…It’s people like George Bush who make me wish
sometimes that God would hurl an asteroid at us! It’s “God forbid
one human foetus (who does not feel a thing if the abortion is done
in a timely manner, according to the latest research, because their
nervous system isn’t nearly fully developed) should perish, no
matter if it was caused by a rape or is probably going to be born
into alot of suffering–but while I’m on my high horse, cut me a
piece o that cow off and cook it up! It’s sheer egotism that we
believe that humans are so damned
important, but it’s okay if we torture animals, ruin the planet, and
make other people adhere to our beliefs!!! We’re not that important!
And if you believe in a God and the soul, then you know that–if the
foetus even has a soul yet, which I don’t believe it does..I believe
the soul enters with the first breath, and leaves with the
last–that baby is just going back into the arms of God! There is no
death! And since they don’t experience pain, all it becomes is
something for people like you to feel self righteous about!
Personally, I think everyone should smoke pot, and would benefit
from it (except for a few cases), but how would you like it if I
MADE you smoke it? That is, if you don’t, and don’t like it. Or
let’s say you eat meat, but I think it’s just as evil to do that as
to allow abortions, so I outlawed meat–would that be okay with you?
And the cliff analogy is just stupid–not
the same thing at all. But yes, I think if a person is truly
miserable, and wants to die, I would try to talk them out of it, but
I would never stop them by force. That’s called LACK OF FREEDOM. And
if we didn’t make mistakes, how would we ever learn? To be told
something is wrong is one thing..you can tell a person, fire will
burn you..but until they get burned, they will not truly understand,
and that’s what life is all about–learning. No, I don’t like to see
foetus’ abortions–I think prevention is the answer….But
sometimes, I believe it is ‘the best choice’. If everyone like you
had their way, there really would be NO ROOM AT ALL left!!! We’re
already sooo over-populated! It’s like I heard some character say in
a movie recently..”everybody’s kids are so special…it makes you
wonder where all the normal adults come from”. Even God believes in
freedom of choice! That’s why he gave
us FREE WILL. You’re a Republican, aren’t you? And you probably
think that war-mongering asshole of a President is the best-thing
since sliced bread, eh? It’s okay to kill, as long as it’s not a
precious child…even though that child may grow up to be The Son of
Sam!  well…”take me by the ham, no good, no evil, no give a
damn!”  And the Govt. is lying to you! About just about everything.
Peace, love, and freedom. Life is too mysterious to take it so
serious!

From:  “Billy J” <billjohnson6@sympatico.ca>
Reply-To:  ibogaine@mindvox.com
To:  ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject:  [Ibogaine] RE: [Pornography,psychology,Choice,force,) 2
cents
Date:  Sun, 02 Apr 2006 21:45:39 -0400
>Well It sounds like this place is really mixing it up so I would
>like to add a little REALITY TO YOU PRO CHOICERS, I am sure glad I
>was not an abortion’ althought I have had my moments.
>Yes My Mom was a young Mom and if she had a choice I think that I
>would have no Grandkids, or be babbleing on here.
>     I too have an attitude, It is about the only thing in this
>world that I really have control over.
>Tiger– How well did you do with making ALL your own Choices,
>Instead of doing
what your were told to do? Not meant to be a shot
>at you personally, but I am with the Right or Wrong crowd- No such
>thing as grey.
>   I do know that some people may have grown up believing that
wrong
>was right and right was wrong, but I Think that I pretty much knew
>when I was stepping out of line and doing wrong.
>It is (as most believe) My God , no not God, but My worldly given
>Right- to do wrong- It’s my life and if I want to screw it up then
>stay out of my way. And you know what I had a lot of sooo called
>friends that did just that WATCHED, AS i WAS Killing myself and
>ruining a lot of lifes.
>But O O O never no no no neverdare step on somebodys toes because
>you know what they have a choice, Just like those poor little
Crack
>%$^&%$ Women that degrade themselves( and me
myself) due to
>everybody. But Never No No Never dare tell somebody or force
someone
>to get some help that they may never ever make it to on their own,
>due to something called “Pride” “Shame” “Guilt”
>Whatever holds them back. They may end up DEAD and it would be
their
>own fault, because you know how STRONG us druggies are, and if
that
>person dies because he had a choice to get help and refused or
just
>couldn’t make it on his/her own and needed YOU (of course they
>didn’t tell you that).
>I am sorry but I BELIEVE that if you Love Someone or even care a
>little, and you see them walking off a cliff and YOU have an
>opportunity to stop them, and you don’t- Can you truelly say it
was
>their own fault?
>Pornography- I never met too many Normal people that would find it
>neccesary to take their
cloths off for the public to see. Totally
>wrong and if you had your own kids you might not think it too cool
>having your buddy beating off while checking out your little girl.
>Not nice eh Billy but P–sy T-ts are not meant for anyone except
who
>they belong to and their mate.
>
>Bye For Now, That stuff is about the biggest trigger going for any
>downfall
>
>Bill
>—-Original Message Follows—-
>From: “Nick Sandberg” <nick227@tiscali.co.uk>
>Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
>To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
>Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Opiates
>Date: Sun, 2 Apr 2006 10:24:07 +0100
>MIME-Version: 1.0
>Received: from tomts21-srv.bellnexxia.net ([209.226.175.183]) by
>bay0-pamc1-f11.bay0.hotmail.com with Microsoft
>SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Sun, 2 Apr 2006 05:38:59
-0700
>Received: from toip5.bellnexxia.net ([209.226.175.88])          by
>tomts21-srv.bellnexxia.net          (InterMail vM.5.01.06.13
>201-253-122-130-113-20050324) with ESMTP          id
><20060402123858.HZPV14030.tomts21-srv.bellnexxia.net@toip5.bellnexxia.net>
>          for <billjohnson6@sympatico.ca>; Sun, 2 Apr 2006
08:38:58
>-0400
>Received: from tanelorn.mindvox.com (HELO mail.mindvox.com)
>([64.124.179.118])  by toip5.bellnexxia.net with ESMTP; 02 Apr
2006
>08:38:58 -0400
>Received: (qmail 16967 invoked by uid 513); 2 Apr 2006 08:38:55
>-0400
>Received: (qmail 16961 invoked by uid
514); 2 Apr 2006 08:38:55
>-0400
>X-Message-Info: moY6YVwXQ44WAJnUvaOEtK2hXKGagKAsshDbZwj7pSc=
>Mailing-List: contact ibogaine-help@mindvox.com; run by ezmlm
>Precedence: bulk
>X-No-Archive: yes
>List-Post: <mailto:ibogaine@mindvox.com>
>List-Help: <mailto:ibogaine-help@mindvox.com>
>List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:ibogaine-unsubscribe@mindvox.com>
>List-Subscribe: <mailto:ibogaine-subscribe@mindvox.com>
>Delivered-To: mailing list ibogaine@mindvox.com
>X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.3 required=4.0
>X-Antivirus-MYDOMAIN-Mail-From: nick227@tiscali.co.uk via
>tanelorn.mindvox.com
>X-Antivirus-MYDOMAIN: 1.25-st-qms
>(Clear:RC:0(212.74.114.37):SA:0(-2.3/4.0):. Processed in 2.781926
>secs Process 16953)
>X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true
>X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result:
AQAAAJ0kL0SDE4UI
>X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.6604 (9.0.2911.0)
>Return-Path:
>ibogaine-return-23233-billjohnson6=sympatico.ca@mindvox.com
>X-OriginalArrivalTime: 02 Apr 2006 12:38:59.0373 (UTC)
>FILETIME=[6A155DD0:01C65652]
>
>
>   —–Original Message—–
>   From: Tiger Lisa [mailto:tigerlisa@gmail.com]
>   Sent: 01 April 2006 13:44
>   To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
>   Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Opiates
>
>
>   Dear Nick,
>   Here’ the part I don’t understand.
>
>   You wrote,
>   Personally, my position is…I think rising awareness is GOOD.
I
>would
>love to see more people in groups, going through their stuff,
>becoming more
>aware of their
personal interior dynamic, and moving forward in
>life. But,
>sadly, I’m not in a position to compel people to do this.
>
>   Why would you ever want to COMPEL anyone to do ANYTHING? Do you
>really
>believe that would be useful, effective, helpful? Do you think
>people
>actually benefit from, and grow from, being FORCED to do anything?
>
>   That is a parent-child model of interaction (and not a
>particularly
>skillful one, IMO), and it’s going to reinforce childlike,
>rebellious and
>victim behavior (NOT self-awareness!) in the one so compelled, as
>well as
>reinforcing bullying behavior and disprespectful and righteous
>attitudes
>(NOT increased compassion or awareness) in the one doing the
>compelling. A
>”lose-lose” interaction–no one
wins!
>
>   Myself, I believe CHOICE is the name of the game. With choice
>comes
>responsibility, self-responsibility and a loss of the victim
>consciousness
>that drives continued reactive and unconscious behavior.
>
>   So in a nutshell: Saying something (like awarenss) is GOOD is
one
>thing,
>but it’s a far cry from that to say,”And I’d love to FORCE you all
>to be
>more aware! too bad I can’t!” I think that is the essence of
what
>*I* am
>having a problem with. Yes, awareness is good. I agree. Yes, I’d
>love to
>live in a more aware society, umm hmm. Then I read the next
sentence
>and I’m
>brought up short.
>
>   We all need love, acceptance, compassion. Compassion is one of
>the most
>healing things
going! Power and control, on the other hand, just get
>people’s backs up, thrust them into dysfunctional modes of
thinking
>and
>perpetuate a lack of awareness all around.
>
>   Just my two cents,
>   Tiger
>
>   PS I bet if you took a shot of heroin, you would experience
>bliss! (not
>that I’m suggesting you do) I believe it is just how human beings
>are wired.
>We’ve all got the same neurotransmitters, more or less.
>
>   Hi Tiger,
>
>   Well, I seem to recall, from the days when I used to go to
>conferences and
>stuff, that studies have shown that only a small percentage of
>school kids
>who used heroin developed a habit. (Howard Parker in Sheffield, or
>something
>like that, about 1000 individuals
studied). This is not quite the
>same as
>what you’re saying, I appreciate, but it shows that the drug of
>itself is
>not necessarily addicting. I don’t know if anyone knows what makes
a
>difference but I’d be willing to bet that, psychologically, it
>relates
>strongly to “ego orientation” vs “underlying levels of feeling.”
If
>you’ve
>developed a self-image that requires you to repress more feelings
>than the
>endogenous opiates in your body can do, then taking heroin is
going
>to make
>you feel pretty good. I would personally say that this is very
>likely one
>psychological mechanism behind addiction. This would explain why
so
>many
>addicts do come from relatively high trauma backgrounds. For, as
>kids, we
>learn that to “get things” and to “be popular” we need to
be able to
>keep
>our feelings a bit under control, not just likely to collapse from
>overfeeling at any time.
>
>   With bliss, (or anxiety for that matter), these are
experiential
>things
>and no neuroscientist can explain them beyond pointing a little at
>things
>that seem to be involved. What is clear is that the states are
>relative to
>one another. If you’re basically a happy person bliss is
inevitably
>less
>attractive than if you’re an anxious person.
>
>   About awareness, yes, I would love to force everyone to be more
>aware!
>And, inevitably, it doesn’t really work like that! But that’s my
>position
>anyway. What to do? Yes, compassion is needed, sometimes a lot of
>it. Also,
>all the power and control at times. I’m not so
busy with how I think
>society
>should be, or trying to like Understand the world, I just put my
>position
>out really. About choice, well, it seems like a great thing, for
>sure, but
>to me it’s a little the same as trying to push compassion at the
>expense of
>power. In philosophy or spirituality or whatever, some people
>believe that
>free will exists, others that the universe is entirely
>deterministic. Who
>the fuck knows? Both are cool viewpoints, and I personally
wouldn’t
>just
>want to just trapped in just one of them.
>
>   Is it cool to allow someone you care about to carry on fucking
>their life
>up because you believe so much in their free will? Not for me! I
>like to
>have the guts to take a position. And, to be honest, it’s a little

>bit what
>I miss in this list, where half the time everyone seems to be
>talking it up
>all nice but actually underneath there are shed-loads of feelings.
I
>don’t
>know if this says anything significant about ibogaine, or about
the
>people
>who are attracted to administering it, or what. But I notice it.
>
>   Nick
>
>
>
>
>
>/]=———————————————————————=[\
>[%] Ibogaine List Commands:
>http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
>
>\]=———————————————————————=[/
>
>

With MSN Spaces email straight to your blog. Upload jokes, photos
and more. It’s free!

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands:
http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]

\]=———————————————————————=[/

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands:
http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]

\]=———————————————————————=[/

Be one of the first to try Windows Live Mail
/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html
[%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. PC-to-Phone calls for ridiculously low rates.

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html
[%]

\]=———————————————————————=[/

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]

\]=———————————————————————=[/

/]=———————————————————————=[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: Kirk <captkirk@clear.net.nz>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine]att; cpt kirk
Date: April 5, 2006 at 9:02:47 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Bloody hell is that a special Aussie trick or something? That darn Jasen
made me to that with milo.  Nearly kilt me.  So much for the Messiah…..

no probs preston, anytime : )
chi x

Oh hell, thanks for making me spit coffe out my nose Chi.

—–

hi kirsty, seeing as there has been so much ‘correcting’ of other peoples

opinions
on the list lately, theres one thing ive got to straighten up with you.
its about the whole PMS (putting up with mens shit) thing. in OZ the male
equivalent to PMS is and always will be MSB (massive sperm build-up)
makes for some very moody men. hehehehehe
lotsa love chi xxxoo

—– Original Message —–
From: “captkirk” <captkirk@clear.net.nz>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Tuesday, April 04, 2006 3:00 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Why Be Mean?

lol billy, I thought that was rather tame compared with
“other emails which shall remain un-named”………….
Feels like PMS to me (Putting Up with Men’s Shit….).
Ok, I’ll go read a book now…..
;o)
“Scientology for Dummies”

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html

[%]

\]=———————————————————————=[/

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html
[%]

\]=———————————————————————=[/

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html
[%]

\]=———————————————————————=[/

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: Kirk <captkirk@clear.net.nz>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] To eat or not to eat
Date: April 5, 2006 at 8:59:16 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

NO, the last bit should be “What matters is it COMES out” (ya don’t shit ya
die?).
Ok nuff wisdom from me
It’s not my fault it’s these noisy ass carpenters making me more mental than
usual.
hehehehe

—–Original Message—–
From: Jasen Chamoun [mailto:jasenhappy@optusnet.com.au]
Sent: Thursday, 6 April 2006 11:43 a.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] To eat or not to eat

Whats the old  adage,..”It doesn’t matter what goes into your mouth, what
matters
is what comes out”  I love this.

love, Jase

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html
[%]

\]=———————————————————————=[/

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: “cm” <cm67@optusnet.com.au>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine]att; cpt kirk
Date: April 5, 2006 at 9:14:28 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

no probs preston, anytime : )
chi x
—– Original Message —– From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Wednesday, April 05, 2006 7:34 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine]att; cpt kirk

Oh hell, thanks for making me spit coffe out my nose Chi.

—–
“If God dropped acid, would he see people?”  ~Steven Wright

Peace, love and lotsof respect.
Preston Peet
ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor Underground- the Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations, Astonishing Archaeology and Hidden History
Editor Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Columnist HighTimes mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —– From: “cm” <cm67@optusnet.com.au>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Tuesday, April 04, 2006 10:54 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine]att; cpt kirk

hi kirsty, seeing as there has been so much ‘correcting’ of other peoples opinions
on the list lately, theres one thing ive got to straighten up with you.
its about the whole PMS (putting up with mens shit) thing. in OZ the male
equivalent to PMS is and always will be MSB (massive sperm build-up)
makes for some very moody men. hehehehehe
lotsa love chi xxxoo

—– Original Message —– From: “captkirk” <captkirk@clear.net.nz>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Tuesday, April 04, 2006 3:00 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Why Be Mean?

lol billy, I thought that was rather tame compared with
“other emails which shall remain un-named”………….
Feels like PMS to me (Putting Up with Men’s Shit….).
Ok, I’ll go read a book now…..
;o)
“Scientology for Dummies”

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]

\]=———————————————————————=[/

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: “Alberto Sola” <plago@hotmail.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] Discovery Iboga
Date: April 5, 2006 at 8:38:11 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hola:
I was please to see the Discovery chanel yesterday with the program “The Tribe” a white fellow went to live with the Bwiti for one month and at the end he is initiated in to Iboga. They just breefly mention the adiction interruption properties but it was nice to see it on TV,
Alberto
/]=———————————————————————=[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%] \]=———————————————————————=[/

From: Dana Beal <dana@phantom.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] Support our London contingent: CLICK
Date: April 5, 2006 at 8:16:28 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

direct action: ‘click against a git’ campaign – drugs,
sex, football, anarchy

AS you probally know the ‘blogosphere’ is populated by
large numbers of racist, facist, nazi loonies who get
millions of hits.

‘Schmoo On the Run’ which promotes peace, love and
ibogaine, is listed against them, and currently stands
at No 150 out of thousands, but the fascist, George
Bush loving, wannabe consentration guards, and fake
anarchists are still ahead!

But you can make a difference: you can ‘CLICK AGAINST
A GIT’ by hitting ‘schmoon on the run’ on a
daily/weekly/monthly/yearly basis. Bookmarx this
revolution now! http://schmoontherun.blogspot.com

You don’t have to read our daily exclusive ‘drugs,
sex, football’ analysis of world events, essential to
your survival.

All you have to do is ‘Click against a Git’, and you
could help stop the ozone hole above you getting
bigger by changing world opinion.

Rember: drugs, sex, football, anarchy; click againt a
git.

http://schmoontherun.blogspot.com

‘Ta muchley’ (as they say in london).

Note: A ‘git’ is an ‘idiot’ in London English.

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: “Jasen Chamoun” <jasenhappy@optusnet.com.au>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] To eat or not to eat
Date: April 5, 2006 at 7:42:33 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Whats the old  adage,..”It doesn’t matter what goes into your mouth, what matters
is what comes out”  I love this.

love, Jase

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: “Billy J” <billjohnson6@sympatico.ca>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Hurting
Date: April 5, 2006 at 7:13:10 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

i think, or as a good theraPEST will say I feel  very very sad, and I have just been instucted(by my wife) to go and get cleaned up, seeing as how I have worked all day and I guess I stink a little.
Ya, i’m a working stiff.
But before I go, because I will probably be gone at least until tomorrow,(i am not normal at this moment) I just want to say that Ibogaine must be something, if even it has just brought a bunch of
Recovered, recovering, Trying to get well sick people, together, to at least talk, and make an attempt at communication and to try to work something out, this seems to be an Unselfish Place
that is really really NEEDED- and _uck you Too if you want to be a fouled mouth drug addict hurting pigheaded __shole that feels better when someone else is hurt by your words.

That last line is not directed at anyone in particular, just MY LIFE MY PAIN- Gotta go through it I guess<

Bj

—-Original Message Follows—-
From: Crooked Eye <iboganaut420@yahoo.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Go kick your Cow
Date: Wed, 5 Apr 2006 15:38:57 -0700 (PDT)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Received: from tomts21-srv.bellnexxia.net ([209.226.175.183]) by bay0-pamc1-f2.bay0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Wed, 5 Apr 2006 15:39:13 -0700
Received: from toip3.bellnexxia.net ([209.226.175.86])          by tomts21-srv.bellnexxia.net          (InterMail vM.5.01.06.13 201-253-122-130-113-20050324) with ESMTP          id <20060405223912.QZRA14030.tomts21-srv.bellnexxia.net@toip3.bellnexxia.net>          for <billjohnson6@sympatico.ca>; Wed, 5 Apr 2006 18:39:12 -0400
Received: from tanelorn.mindvox.com (HELO mail.mindvox.com) ([64.124.179.118])  by toip3.bellnexxia.net with ESMTP; 05 Apr 2006 18:39:05 -0400
Received: (qmail 5942 invoked by uid 513); 5 Apr 2006 18:39:04 -0400
Received: (qmail 5936 invoked by uid 514); 5 Apr 2006 18:39:04 -0400
X-Message-Info: moY6YVwXQ4581trXxQDiABJXfc4J8MqBHvkY9Ebov2Q=
Mailing-List: contact ibogaine-help@mindvox.com; run by ezmlm
Precedence: bulk
X-No-Archive: yes
List-Post: <mailto:ibogaine@mindvox.com>
List-Help: <mailto:ibogaine-help@mindvox.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:ibogaine-unsubscribe@mindvox.com>
List-Subscribe: <mailto:ibogaine-subscribe@mindvox.com>
Delivered-To: mailing list ibogaine@mindvox.com
X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=4.0
X-Antivirus-MYDOMAIN-Mail-From: iboganaut420@yahoo.com via tanelorn.mindvox.com
X-Antivirus-MYDOMAIN: 1.25-st-qms (Clear:RC:0(68.142.200.100):SA:0(0.3/4.0):. Processed in 5.868702 secs Process 5911)
Return-Path: ibogaine-return-23390-billjohnson6=sympatico.ca@mindvox.com
X-OriginalArrivalTime: 05 Apr 2006 22:39:13.0406 (UTC) FILETIME=[C35BF1E0:01C65901]

Yeah, fuck me cause I try to lighten the mood by poking fun at vegetarians??  Well suit yourself, goodbye and good riddance..  You seem like an over emotional child with the rage you express in your emails at people who simply enjoy debating topics that arise..  I understand that coming from an addict, as when you are so numbed, your rage builds up within(probably why you continue to medicate, rather than work through your problems)..  I was an addict, and have known plenty who turn to downright assholes when they are under the influence..  Hopefully you find Iboga and piece of mind, as I do feel sorry for you..  Also, it brings to mind a saying I read once:  Arguing on the internet is like running the for the Special Olympics because no matter who wins, you’re still retarded…
http://carcino.gen.nz/images/index.php/00b9a680/463c5922
Love,
CE

Alan Hehe <a.h.veil68@hotmail.com> wrote:  It is better to be thought of as o fool than to open your Mouth(or Gate)
and Remove All Doubt.

Oh, I heartily agree, Billy Boy–and feel the exact same way about you. Oh, yeah, and Nick, yeah he’s a real class act. But don’t worry, because you won’t be hearing from me anymore (YOU either, NICK) ’cause I’ve decided that, except for Preston, Kirsty, Callie, Anne, Randy, Matt, and alot of other people, this list is just full of people who talk the talk (of bullshit) but can’t walk the walk…oh, jeeze, I just realized that the people I like are just about everone except you and Nick! But I’m still gonna remove myself from this list, since it has practically nothing to do with ibogaine, and a whole lot to do with people who, IMO, are heartless rednecks or just confused bullshitters, both of which want to force people into doing or not doing what they believe. Besides that, I have a life that’s getting very busy right now…I’m moving in with a herd of cattle!!!  To the rest of you, good luck. To Nick, or Crooked Eye, and Bill, well–fuck you! I’m outta here, as much
as that’s gonnna break your hearts…well, Bill doesn’t have much of one, and who knows about Nick, since after all his complaining about people not listening and just          reacting, he couldn’t come up with a letter explaining what he does believe–other than everyone is emotionally fucked up–and oh, that’s BIG NEWS! I never knew that! And that he’s got the answer, though he doesn’t know what it is!  Kirsty, you were right. And I don’t care how much meat you folks eat–in fact, chow down on as much artery clogging meat as you can get your hands on..PLEASE!

———————————

From:  “Billy J” <billjohnson6@sympatico.ca>
Reply-To:  ibogaine@mindvox.com
To:  ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject:  RE: [Ibogaine] Go kick your Cow
Date:  Wed, 05 Apr 2006 18:07:10 -0400
>
>And as the old Red Neck saying Goes—
>
>Allan Baybe,
>It is better to be thought of as o fool than to open your Mouth(or
>Gate)
>and Remove All Doubt.
>
>And You How Totally Removed The Doubt.
>Nick has Class and Wisdon,
>You Have what you Call a high I.Q.
>But A Short attention Span. I heard that Riddlelyn Works.
>
>Billy Boy Your Little redneck.
>
>—-Original Message Follows—-
>From: “Alan Hehe” <a.h.veil68@hotmail.com>
>Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
>To:  ibogaine@mindvox.com
>Subject: [Ibogaine]  Nick
>Date: Wed, 05 Apr 2006 13:47:40 -0400
>MIME-Version: 1.0
>Received: from tomts11-srv.bellnexxia.net ([209.226.175.55]) by
>bay0-pamc1-f12.bay0.hotmail.com with Microsoft
>SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Wed, 5 Apr 2006 10:47:58 -0700
>Received: from toip6.bellnexxia.net ([209.226.175.174])          by
>tomts11-srv.bellnexxia.net          (InterMail vM.5.01.06.13
>201-253-122-130-113-20050324) with ESMTP          id
><20060405175013.FTXP6620.tomts11-srv.bellnexxia.net@toip6.bellnexxia.net>
>          for <billjohnson6@sympatico.ca>; Wed, 5 Apr 2006 13:50:13
>-0400
>Received: from tanelorn.mindvox.com (HELO mail.mindvox.com)
>([64.124.179.118])  by toip6.bellnexxia.net with ESMTP; 05 Apr 2006
>13:47:50 -0400
>Received: (qmail 31302 invoked by uid 513); 5 Apr 2006 13:47:49
>-0400
>Received: (qmail 31296 invoked by uid 514); 5 Apr 2006 13:47:49
>-0400
>X-Message-Info: moY6YVwXQ473QIVaGTy0vd6BRtNAOwbFE6Q8KKsI2ns=
>Mailing-List: contact ibogaine-help@mindvox.com; run by ezmlm
>Precedence: bulk
>X-No-Archive: yes
>List-Post: <mailto:ibogaine@mindvox.com>
>List-Help: <mailto:ibogaine-help@mindvox.com>
>List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:ibogaine-unsubscribe@mindvox.com>
>List-Subscribe: <mailto:ibogaine-subscribe@mindvox.com>
>Delivered-To: mailing list ibogaine@mindvox.com
>X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.3  required=4.0
>X-Antivirus-MYDOMAIN-Mail-From: a.h.veil68@hotmail.com via
>tanelorn.mindvox.com
>X-Antivirus-MYDOMAIN: 1.25-st-qms
>(Clear:RC:0(65.54.224.24):SA:0(-2.3/4.0):. Processed in 5.319846
>secs Process 31270)
>Return-Path:
>ibogaine-return-23365-billjohnson6=sympatico.ca@mindvox.com
>X-OriginalArrivalTime: 05 Apr 2006 17:47:58.0777 (UTC)
>FILETIME=[13AB2A90:01C658D9]
>
>  Nick–
>
>   Well, just as I expected, you can’t explain any of your beliefs
>or why you believe them, and you have made me regret saying I was
>sorry for being hard on it. I think YOU are the one with some
>serious emotional and mental problems, Nick…at least IMO. Saying
>you don’t feel like a “mindy discussion is just bullshit, a cop out,
>as is your statement about  detachment. Just because it doesn’t work
>for you doesn’t mean it doesn’t work for anyone…But I guess you
>must be wiser than The Buddha, or Lao-tse too. I didn’t ask you to
>try to explain the nature of reality or the universe, Nick.
>    You are always complaining about people not listening and just
>reacting, and then when I politely ask you to explain your beliefs,
>like your one about encounter therapy, you don’t have shit to say,
>except to denounce other ideas as bullshit. I really don’t think you
>know what you think…I believe, IMO, that you are a very confused
>person. Well–let’s leave it at that. You had your chance, an actual
>request, to state what you think, and you just avoided it by
>denouncing other things…It’s easy to say someone or something is
>bullshit–it’s much  harder to say positive things about what YOU
>think and believe. You’re just hopeless to me Nick, so please stop
>writing to me…I know you’ll want to respond to this, and I will
>read that, but whether you stop or not, I’m simply going to ignore
>your posts…at least until you have something real to say.
>
>Alan.
>  Save time by starting a search from any Web page with the MSN
>Search  Toolbar-FREE!
>
>
>
>
>/]=———————————————————————=[\
>  [%] Ibogaine List Commands:
>http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
>
>\]=———————————————————————=[/
>
>
>
>
>
>/]=———————————————————————=[\
>[%] Ibogaine List Commands:
>http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
>
>\]=———————————————————————=[/
>
>

———————————
Get turn-by-turn driving directions you can really use – Windows Live Local is here! /]=———————————————————————=[\  [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]   \]=———————————————————————=[/

———————————
Blab-away for as little as 1ข/min. Make  PC-to-Phone Calls using Yahoo! Messenger with Voice.

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: “matthew zielinski” <mattzielinski@hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Don’t Go- Stay.
Date: April 5, 2006 at 7:07:11 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Better to have a good hearted fued than have a friendship that is glued!!!!—–Nietsche

 

From: “Billy J” <billjohnson6@sympatico.ca>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Don’t Go- Stay.
Date: Wed, 05 Apr 2006 18:53:14 -0400

Dear Allan,
I do have a heart, and other parts too, and it takes all of my parts to sometimes,just get by,
and whether you like it or not you, Allan are a part of this list that I am really just a newcomer to, and I have no right to offend You, So, Please keep on Talking and I promise to NEVER be Sarcastic with you again, and if you need to blast off in order to get rid of some of your _hit then personally, I would rather see (or hear) you do it here then to take it somewhere else maybe.
Now please do not come back to say something really sad, because today Allan I think I could really use a HUGE BLAST of something, and that does not include deathly insults OK,
Bye for now.

Your Redneck

—-Original Message Follows—-
From: “Alan Hehe” <a.h.veil68@hotmail.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Go kick your Cow
Date: Wed, 05 Apr 2006 18:31:32 -0400
MIME-Version: 1.0
Received: from tomts12-srv.bellnexxia.net ([209.226.175.56]) by bay0-pamc1-f1.bay0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Wed, 5 Apr 2006 15:31:42 -0700
Received: from toip4.bellnexxia.net ([209.226.175.87]) by tomts12-srv.bellnexxia.net (InterMail vM.5.01.06.13 201-253-122-130-113-20050324) with ESMTP id <20060405223141.VSVJ1758.tomts12-srv.bellnexxia.net@toip4.bellnexxia.net> for <billjohnson6@sympatico.ca>; Wed, 5 Apr 2006 18:31:41 -0400
Received: from tanelorn.mindvox.com (HELO mail.mindvox.com) ([64.124.179.118]) by toip4.bellnexxia.net with ESMTP; 05 Apr 2006 18:31:40 -0400
Received: (qmail 2804 invoked by uid 513); 5 Apr 2006 18:31:39 -0400
Received: (qmail 2798 invoked by uid 514); 5 Apr 2006 18:31:39 -0400
X-Message-Info: moY6YVwXQ473QIVaGTy0vd6BRtNAOwbFE6Q8KKsI2ns=
Mailing-List: contact ibogaine-help@mindvox.com; run by ezmlm
Precedence: bulk
X-No-Archive: yes
List-Post: <mailto:ibogaine@mindvox.com>
List-Help: <mailto:ibogaine-help@mindvox.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:ibogaine-unsubscribe@mindvox.com>
List-Subscribe: <mailto:ibogaine-subscribe@mindvox.com>
Delivered-To: mailing list ibogaine@mindvox.com
X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.1 required=4.0
X-Antivirus-MYDOMAIN-Mail-From: a.h.veil68@hotmail.com via tanelorn.mindvox.com
X-Antivirus-MYDOMAIN: 1.25-st-qms (Clear:RC:0(65.54.224.19):SA:0(-2.1/4.0):. Processed in 3.947192 secs Process 2711)
Return-Path: ibogaine-return-23387-billjohnson6=sympatico.ca@mindvox.com
X-OriginalArrivalTime: 05 Apr 2006 22:31:42.0624 (UTC) FILETIME=[B6AC1200:01C65900]

It is better to be thought of as o fool than to open your Mouth(or Gate)
and Remove All Doubt.

Oh, I heartily agree, Billy Boy–and feel the exact same way about you. Oh, yeah, and Nick, yeah he’s a real class act. But don’t worry, because you won’t be hearing from me anymore (YOU either, NICK) ’cause I’ve decided that, except for Preston, Kirsty, Callie, Anne, Randy, Matt, and alot of other people, this list is just full of people who talk the talk (of bullshit) but can’t walk the walk…oh, jeeze, I just realized that the people I like are just about everone except you and Nick! But I’m still gonna remove myself from this list, since it has practically nothing to do with ibogaine, and a whole lot to do with people who, IMO, are heartless rednecks or just confused bullshitters, both of which want to force people into doing or not doing what they believe. Besides that, I have a life that’s getting very busy right now…I’m moving in with a herd of cattle!!!
To the rest of you, good luck. To Nick, or Crooked Eye, and Bill, well–fuck you! I’m outta here, as much as that’s gonnna break your hearts…well, Bill doesn’t have much of one, and who knows about Nick, since after all his complaining about people not listening and just          reacting, he couldn’t come up with a letter explaining what he does believe–other than everyone is emotionally fucked up–and oh, that’s BIG NEWS! I never knew that! And that he’s got the answer, though he doesn’t know what it is!  Kirsty, you were right. And I don’t care how much meat you folks eat–in fact, chow down on as much artery clogging meat as you can get your hands on..PLEASE!

From:  “Billy J” <billjohnson6@sympatico.ca>
Reply-To:  ibogaine@mindvox.com
To:  ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject:  RE: [Ibogaine] Go kick your Cow
Date:  Wed, 05 Apr 2006 18:07:10 -0400
>
>And as the old Red Neck saying Goes—
>
>Allan Baybe,
>It is better to be thought of as o fool than to open your Mouth(or
>Gate)
>and Remove All Doubt.
>
>And You How Totally Removed The Doubt.
>Nick has Class and Wisdon,
>You Have what you Call a high I.Q.
>But A Short attention Span. I heard that Riddlelyn Works.
>
>Billy Boy Your Little redneck.
>
>—-Original Message Follows—-
>From: “Alan Hehe” <a.h.veil68@hotmail.com>
>Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
>To:
ibogaine@mindvox.com
>Subject: [Ibogaine]  Nick
>Date: Wed, 05 Apr 2006 13:47:40 -0400
>MIME-Version: 1.0
>Received: from tomts11-srv.bellnexxia.net ([209.226.175.55]) by
>bay0-pamc1-f12.bay0.hotmail.com with Microsoft
>SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Wed, 5 Apr 2006 10:47:58 -0700
>Received: from toip6.bellnexxia.net ([209.226.175.174])          by
>tomts11-srv.bellnexxia.net          (InterMail vM.5.01.06.13
>201-253-122-130-113-20050324) with ESMTP          id
><20060405175013.FTXP6620.tomts11-srv.bellnexxia.net@toip6.bellnexxia.net>
>          for <billjohnson6@sympatico.ca>; Wed, 5 Apr 2006 13:50:13

>-0400
>Received: from tanelorn.mindvox.com (HELO mail.mindvox.com)
>([64.124.179.118])  by toip6.bellnexxia.net with ESMTP; 05 Apr 2006
>13:47:50 -0400
>Received: (qmail 31302 invoked by uid 513); 5 Apr 2006 13:47:49
>-0400
>Received: (qmail 31296 invoked by uid 514); 5 Apr 2006 13:47:49
>-0400
>X-Message-Info: moY6YVwXQ473QIVaGTy0vd6BRtNAOwbFE6Q8KKsI2ns=
>Mailing-List: contact ibogaine-help@mindvox.com; run by ezmlm
>Precedence: bulk
>X-No-Archive: yes
>List-Post: <mailto:ibogaine@mindvox.com>
>List-Help: <mailto:ibogaine-help@mindvox.com>
>List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:ibogaine-unsubscribe@mindvox.com>
>List-Subscribe: <mailto:ibogaine-subscribe@mindvox.com>
>Delivered-To: mailing list ibogaine@mindvox.com
>X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.3
required=4.0
>X-Antivirus-MYDOMAIN-Mail-From: a.h.veil68@hotmail.com via
>tanelorn.mindvox.com
>X-Antivirus-MYDOMAIN: 1.25-st-qms
>(Clear:RC:0(65.54.224.24):SA:0(-2.3/4.0):. Processed in 5.319846
>secs Process 31270)
>Return-Path:
>ibogaine-return-23365-billjohnson6=sympatico.ca@mindvox.com
>X-OriginalArrivalTime: 05 Apr 2006 17:47:58.0777 (UTC)
>FILETIME=[13AB2A90:01C658D9]
>
>  Nick–
>
>   Well, just as I expected, you can’t explain any of your beliefs
>or why you believe them, and you have made me regret saying I was
>sorry for being hard on it. I think YOU are the one with some
>serious emotional and mental problems, Nick…at least IMO. Saying
>you don’t feel like a “mindy discussion is just bullshit, a cop out,
>as is your statement about
detachment. Just because it doesn’t work
>for you doesn’t mean it doesn’t work for anyone…But I guess you
>must be wiser than The Buddha, or Lao-tse too. I didn’t ask you to
>try to explain the nature of reality or the universe, Nick.
>    You are always complaining about people not listening and just
>reacting, and then when I politely ask you to explain your beliefs,
>like your one about encounter therapy, you don’t have shit to say,
>except to denounce other ideas as bullshit. I really don’t think you
>know what you think…I believe, IMO, that you are a very confused
>person. Well–let’s leave it at that. You had your chance, an actual
>request, to state what you think, and you just avoided it by
>denouncing other things…It’s easy to say someone or something is
>bullshit–it’s much
harder to say positive things about what YOU
>think and believe. You’re just hopeless to me Nick, so please stop
>writing to me…I know you’ll want to respond to this, and I will
>read that, but whether you stop or not, I’m simply going to ignore
>your posts…at least until you have something real to say.
>
>Alan.
>  Save time by starting a search from any Web page with the MSN
>Search
Toolbar-FREE!
>
>
>
>
>/]=———————————————————————=[\
>  [%] Ibogaine List Commands:
>http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
>
>\]=———————————————————————=[/
>
>
>
>
>
>/]=———————————————————————=[\
>[%] Ibogaine List Commands:
>http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
>
>\]=———————————————————————=[/
>
>

Get turn-by-turn driving directions you can really use – Windows Live Local is here!

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

Take the effort out of being organized with MSNŪ Calendar. MSN Premium: Join now and get the first two months FREE* /]=———————————————————————=[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%] \]=———————————————————————=[/

From: “Alan Hehe” <a.h.veil68@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] OT! Eating cattle or food
Date: April 5, 2006 at 7:00:15 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Jon–
I hope you are kidding about brocolli feeling pain. That must be put there for a laugh.
This will probably be my last post, so I will say this: From debating in high school and different forums, and just from alot of research, I’ve learned one thing beyond any doubt: Anyone can make an argument, for or against, any idea, belief, or position–often using the same data. If you believe eating meat is okay, you will tend to gather evidence to support your belief, and exclude evidence that negates it. If you believe eating meat is wrong, the same is true. It’s not so much that I believe eating meat itself is wrong, it’s more that I feel we’re holding ourselves back from evolving spiritually and emotionally, from finding peace, by the way we treat our “food”–which is living, breathing, caring animals who are put to death and kept in the most inhumane fashions possible, all because we believe we are better than them, and since they are “only food”, it doesn’t matter how they are treated. But if you lock a cute little dog in a hot car for half a day, you can go to jail for that. We only want to save the cute animals. But we think nothin of the bull who gets his balls cut off with a knife without a drop of painkiller…and we’re egotistic enough to say..”ahh, he doesn’t feel anything.” But yet people like Bill are sure like a foetus, even though it’s C.N.S. isn’t even developed, the nerve endings aren’t formed yet, it must be going through agony.
So, you can make an argument for just about anything…but you have to live with the consequences if you turn out to be wrong.

From:  jon@mindvox.com
Reply-To:  ibogaine@mindvox.com
To:  ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject:  Re: [Ibogaine] OT! Eating cattle or food
Date:  Wed, 5 Apr 2006 16:05:29 -0400 (EDT)
>
>Well, ok… I’ll go through this point by point…
>
>Not all plants feel pain, but some do… e.g., broccoli. Likewise, while
>most animals do feel pain, not all do.. e.g. assorted types of shellfish.
>Again, the line between plant and animal is not as clear cut as people
>make it out to be.
>
>As for the heart attacks, it is true that meat-eaters are more likely to
>suffer from that, as well as from assorted food poisonings and infections
>transmitted by tainted meat. But non-meat-eaters are more likely to suffer
>from depression, anemia, and assorted other ailments. So, it’s a trade
>off.
>
>Your argument about our digestive system is completely off base. It’s
>actually easier for humans (and other primates) to digest meat than to
>digest plant matter. The main reason is that plant cells have tough cell
>walls, while animal cells do not. Our digestive system is not set up to
>get optimal nutrition from plants; for that we would need a digestive
>system more similar to a cow (i.e., multiple stomachs, cud-chewing, longer
>intenstines, etc.) This is why, for example, when you eat corn it comes
>out whole at the other end. Humans are not especially good at digesting
>most plant matter.
>
>Based purely on our biology, humans are set up to be omnivores.  This is
>because our digestive system has characterstics of both carnivores (e.g. a
>single stomach and canines) and herbivores (e.g. molars). The length of
>our digestive system is much shorter than that of pure herbivores, but
>longer than that of pure carnivores. Optimal human nutrition is best
>acheived by eating a balanced diet of animals and plants.
>
>I do conceed that the way industrialised nations go about farming meat is
>pretty brutal. But then, so is the way industrialised nations go about
>farming plants as well.
>
>And so is the way industrialised nations do most things, for that matter..
>
>
> >   Hey–
> >    Just wanted to say that, asides from clams or mussells maybe, plants do
> > not have a C>N>S and do not experience pain like animals, who have pain
> > receptors just like we do. Also, there are other reasons for not eating
> > meat: like health reasons…Meat eaters have about a 35-40% chance of
> > dying from a heart attack do their diet, while vegetarians only have
> > about 5% chance. That’s quite a difference.
> >      Furthermore–yes, plants are alive! That’s the whole idea! You only
> > obtain true life energy from living things! The meat you eat has been
> > dead for God only knows how long, has very little nutritional value.
> > Also, because we have a digestive track that’s over 20 feet long,
> > alot of the meat you eat rots in your intestines, releasing all kinds
> > of nasty toxins. In addition, when animals are slaughtered in the
> > mass murder method we use, they’re not so stupid that they don’t know
> > what’s going on…Animals (just like the animal called a dog) are
> > very keen at sensing fear, not just within us, but within their own
> > ranks. As they approach their death, they are terrified, and release
> > a multitude of chemicals into their bloodstreams, which, when we eat,
> > have an effect on us…mainly anger and fear, which are closely
> > linked.
> >     Well, I have to go…You have the choice to eat whatever you want..I
> > used to eat meat, and still do occasionally…but I swear to you that
> > I feel a hundred times lighter since I started eating less meat, and
> > alot more full of life. And if you don’t think I know what I’m talking
> > about, here a guy that was kinda smart, and his take on vegetarianism
> > vs. eating meat:
> > “Nothing will benefit health and increase the chances of survival of life
> > on Earth as the evoloution to a vegetarian diet..”—Albert Einstein.
> >
> >      From:  jon@mindvox.com
> > Reply-To:  ibogaine@mindvox.com
> > To:  ibogaine@mindvox.com
> > Subject:  Re: [Ibogaine] OT! Eating cattle or food
> > Date:  Wed, 5 Apr 2006 14:24:56 -0400 (EDT)
> >>potatoes have eyes too =P
> >>
> >>i remember this punk song about how silly it is that vegetarians, for
> >>example, don’t eat clams… because clams have essentially the same kind
> >>of nervous system as broccoli and cauliflower…
> >>
> >>the line between plant and animal is not an entirely clear one.. and the
> >>decision to eat plants but not animals seems to me a pretty arbitrary
> >> one.
> >>plants are living, breathing, and to some degree, thinking creatures as
> >>well. but they get no love from PETA…
> >>
> >>i guess my basic point is.. eat whatever you’re  comfortable with. but
> >>realise that whatever you eat, ANYTHING you eat, inflicts suffering on
> >>some creature.
> >>
> >>such is the nature of life.
> >>
> >>
> >>ahaha… speaking of PETA, i saw the best bumper sticker a couple weeks
> >>ago….eheh… it said:
> >>
> >>”PETA – People Eating Tasty Animals”
> >>
> >>=)
> >>
> >>oh, and one more thing… as for the whole pet vs. food argument… i
> >> know
> >>for a fact that if my cat ever got the chance, he would totally eat me.
> >> so
> >>i don’t wanna hear it.. =P
> >>
> >>
> >> > for me eating meat in a society where it’s unnecessary merely promotes
> >> the
> >> > fear/bloodthirsty addiction so prevalent in the Western world. I can
> >> see
> >> > eating meat in a society where there are no alternatives, but where I
> >> live
> >> > it’s easy to not eat meat, and I’m  glad.
> >> > I still do dairy and eggs, but can’t eat anything that might lick it’s
> >> > fellow beings, or nuzzle them, or communicate in any way, shape or
> >> form
> >> > with
> >> > one another, even chickens (which I’ve been told are ok to eat because
> >> > “they’re stupid.” If that were the only criteria for being ok to eat,
> >> I’d
> >> > be
> >> > a cannibal). Again, this is only my own viewpoint, but there seems to
> >> be
> >> > something unenlightened, to me, how some folk can have “pets” but call
> >> > cattle mere “food,” making no connection to the living, breathing,
> >> > thinking
> >> > creatures sharing the planet with us.
> >> >
> >> > Butt, and it’s a great big butt, I can’t really fault anyone for their
> >> > eating habits beyond stating how I personally feel, particularly about
> >> >  factory farming, inhumane treatment of our “food” and the wonton
> >> slaughter
> >> > of living creatures when it isn’t necessary for our survival, only to
> >> feed
> >> > our addiction to blood and flesh these days (Of course one couuld take
> >> > this
> >> > to extreme and tell me plants are also living, but I limit my empathy
> >> and
> >> > eating ban to beings with eys I guess).
> >> >     That’s because I’m…pro-choice at heart.
> >> >
> >> > —–
> >> > “If God dropped acid, would he see people?”  ~Steven Wright
> >> >
> >> > Peace, love and lotsof respect.
> >> > Preston Peet
> >> > ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
> >> > Editor Underground- the Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations,
> >> > Astonishing Archaeology and Hidden History
> >> > Editor Under the Influence- the  Disinformation Guide to Drugs
> >> > Editor http://www.drugwar.com
> >> > Columnist HighTimes mag/.com
> >> > Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
> >> > Columnist New York Waste
> >> > Etc.
> >> >
> >> > —– Original Message —–
> >> > From: Crooked Eye
> >> > To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
> >> > Sent: Tuesday, April 04, 2006 3:53 AM
> >> > Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Whats a Republican?
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > Cow’s are tasty…  If we aren’t supposed to eat animals, then why are
> >> > they
> >> > made out of meat?  😀  I fail how to see eating cows equates to
> >> racism…
> >> > I
> >> > eat a lot of cows, but I have a mixed family…  If it makes you feel
> >> any
> >> > better we eat a lot of chickens, too..  I love turkey, the  tryptophan
> >> > makes
> >> > me sleepy…
> >> >
> >> > Alan Hehe  wrote:
> >> >    Don’t call me Baby…well, you can…since you’re not close enough
> >> for
> >> > me
> >> > to do anything about it! Plus, that’s a freedom, too…Just like my
> >> > ability
> >> > to talk about pro-choice. As for your information, no, I don’t think
> >> the
> >> > way
> >> > the abortion system is set up–but I absolutely believe in having the
> >> > right…And no, you don’t have 9 months to decide whether to have the
> >> rug
> >> > rat or not–there is a cut-off, a limit to when abortions can be
> >> > performed.
> >> >      And so you think, because cows aren’t pets, or aren’t ‘cute’,
> >> then
> >> > it’s
> >> > okay to torture them?  And to cut the balls of bulls off without any
> >> > anesthetic? To make chickens live in a cage so small they can barely
> >> turn
> >> > around? And George Bush–wanting to save lives! LOL! That’s the
> >> biggest
> >> > joke
> >> > I’ve ever heard! But it figures; you’re not special..alot of the
> >> people in
> >> > this country are brain-washed by the constant disinformation they are
> >> > fed….Why do you think there are a hundred commercials warning of the
> >> > dangers of marijuana, one of the least harmful drugs known to man, but
> >> yet
> >> > maybe one out of those hundred about the truly dangerous drugs, like H
> >> or
> >> > Coke?
> >> >        And you don’t have to be a hindu to have compassion for animals
> >> > other
> >> > than cats and dogs, you dumb-ass red-neck! In some places  they eat
> >> > dogs…would that be okay if they ate your dog? You know, I’m totally
> >> > wasting my time talking to you, I can already tell that you are way
> >> > undereducated, extremely prejudiced. Cows are just food. Are blacks
> >> just
> >> > niggers, too? God, I can’t stand fuckin’ red-necks like you,
> >> especially
> >> > the
> >> > ones that actually think they’re smart. Once you start doing away with
> >> > freedoms, it’s all down-hill. Who’s going to decide what’s right and
> >> > wrong?
> >> > You?! I would happily put a hollow-point 45 shell into my head if that
> >> > possibility existed..of course G.W.B. is quite the redneck himself,
> >> which
> >> > is
> >> > why you probably like him. First of all, HE’s not fighting for
> >> anything. I
> >> > have respect for the soldiers; they don’t decide the mission,  they
> >> just do
> >> > what they’re told. And how many babies do you think die while we were
> >> > waging
> >> > a war we were totally lied to about? Or is that okay? You think the
> >> babies
> >> > over there even know what a terrorist is? This world is already
> >> > over-populated..if people like you ran things, the world would run out
> >> of
> >> > resources within a decade! The oh so precious children! Everyone
> >> starts
> >> > out
> >> > as a child..some people, like you, remain one, in their minds, their
> >> whole
> >> > life. But those sweet children often grow up to be killers and
> >> rapists,
> >> > and
> >> > often for no apparent reason!  Strong belief does only one thing:
> >> close
> >> > your
> >> > mind. Boy, that ibogaine is gonna have fun with you!!!!! Cows are just
> >> > food!
> >> > Well, we’re  just food, too…if a grizzly decides you look good! God,
> >> what
> >> > egotism!  You claim to be a Christian (I do not) but you must have
> >> misssed
> >> > the part about not judging lest you be judged yourself…And I bet
> >> ibo’s
> >> > gonna drive that one home with a psychoactive sledgehammer! You’ve got
> >> > your
> >> > response, but I really no longer wish to talk with you. I’ve spent too
> >> > much
> >> > time arguing with all the fascists on this list, instead of hanging
> >> out
> >> > with
> >> > the cool, in the know ,people: by that meaning knowing that the whole
> >> > Govt.
> >> > is totally corrupt, actually controlled by a few wealthy and extremely
> >> > powerful people, and they constantly just feed us disinformation,
> >> while
> >> > manipulating the world through economic control, etc, and alot  of
> >> other
> >> > things you wouldn’t understand. BYE< NOW, Billy BOY. Go get a burger!
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > From:  “Billy J”
> >> > Reply-To:  ibogaine@mindvox.com
> >> > To:  ibogaine@mindvox.com
> >> > Subject:  RE: [Ibogaine] Whats a Republican?
> >> > Date:  Tue, 04 Apr 2006 02:19:25 -0400
> >> >>Hear this peace and take it to your Heart FRIEND.
> >> >>1st if we go back to Killing kids for the sins of their fathers
> >> >>(Child of a Rapist) Do you think that is more civilized then Raising
> >> >>Cattle for food,(Cattle are food “not Pets”) although you may be
> >> >>from India or somewhere that they worship your cows and even there
> >> >>fecal matter I hear!  Now if your are at that junkger(Place) then I
> >> >>will have to say -well Al, Bless you, but when was the last time you
> >> >>had your precious cow go to war for YOUR FREEDOMS that I am sure you
> >> >>are enjoying- Yes?
> >> >>   Allan , do you really love cows (the 4 legged ones that is) or
> >> >>are you in your 2nd or 3rd reincarnation and you where once a cow
> >> >>and you have come into this wierd mooing stage and you just could
> >> >>not figure it out.
> >> >>  Ok That is sarcasm – Sorry< I’ll get serious.
> >> >>Oh Ya Your aborting a fetus-, and yes I know that in the USof A
> >> >>being the most civilized Nation that has usually voted anti-
> >> >>Christian ( just in case somebody didn’t let Everybody do what FEELs
> >> >>GOOD)
> >>  >>Ya you can Have sex with anybody you want and then if a girl gets
> >> >>pregnant, or do you call it fetus something, oh well  so shes
> >> >>pregnant you have 9 months to decide whether or not you what the
> >> >>little BLOB Because your fetus can be kicking up a storm and as long
> >> >>as you can keep its stupid( oh it,s brain isn’t functioning yet
> >> >>,right) well as long as you can keep its head inside the grown up
> >> >>fetus ( that would be the female, The pregnant one, knocked up one ,
> >> >>dumb one what ever you would call someone like that ( Maybe MOM)
> >> >>well just reach in and CRUSH ITS SCULL and or STICK A SYRINGE INTO
> >> >>THe Back of it HEAD JUST UNTIL ITS STOPS PUTTINGN UP A FIGHT, AND
> >> >>they do fight Allan, just go and ask your abortion doctor.–  PARTIAL
> >> >>BIRTH ABORTION– VERY NICE–
> >> >>  oH YA AND YOU KNOW WHAT ALLY BABY THAT STUPID WAR MOGER THAT YOU
> >> >>HAVE AS A PRESIDENT WOULD LIKE NOTHING MORE THAN TO SAVE PEOPLE BUT
> >> >>ALL YOU PEOPLE THAT GOD GAVE YOU FREE CHOICE HAVE DECIDED TO VOTE
> >> >>FOR THE REAL KILLERS-
> >> >>   Have you any clue how many of your fetuses are done away with
> >> >>each year in the USA alone,, Allan Baby– way way more in 1 year
> >> >>than have been killed in ALL the World wars— How many do you think
> >> >>are rape and how many are just another form of birth control,, Your
> >> >>Planned Parenthood is a multi-Billion dollar industry that fights
> >> >>for you to have the freedom to get rid of your Babies- But They do
> >> >>not do it for free– They  are rich.One more thing if we can justify
> >> >>killing because you THINK they don’t feel pain- Why not line up all
> >> >>us addicts right after a good whack and while we are feeling no pain
> >> >>BANG-
> >> >>Save a lot of tax dollars- The Meth Clinics would be Pissed though.
> >> >>
> >> >>Love Ya!
> >> >>
> >> >>Just Don’t say it is OK To Kill My Children- Or Yours
> >> >>
> >> >>B
> >> >>
> >> >>—-Original Message Follows—-
> >> >>From: “Alan Hehe”
> >> >>Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
> >> >>To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
> >> >>Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] RE: [Pornography,psychology,Choice,force,) 2
> >> >>cents
> >> >>Date: Tue, 04 Apr 2006 01:25:21 -0400
> >> >>MIME-Version:  1.0
> >> >>Received: from tomts30-srv.bellnexxia.net ([209.226.175.104]) by
> >> >>bay0-pamc1-f3.bay0.hotmail.com with Microsoft
> >> >>SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Mon, 3 Apr 2006 22:27:22 -0700
> >> >>Received: from toip4.bellnexxia.net ([209.226.175.87])          by
> >> >>tomts30-srv.bellnexxia.net          (InterMail vM.5.01.06.13
> >> >>201-253-122-130-113-20050324) with ESMTP          id
> >> >>
> >> >>          for ; Tue, 4 Apr 2006 01:27:21
> >> >>-0400
> >> >>Received: from  tanelorn.mindvox.com (HELO mail.mindvox.com)
> >> >>([64.124.179.118])  by toip4.bellnexxia.net with ESMTP; 04 Apr 2006
> >> >>01:27:16 -0400
> >> >>Received: (qmail 1073 invoked by uid 513); 4 Apr 2006 01:27:15 -0400
> >> >>Received: (qmail 1067 invoked by uid 514); 4 Apr 2006 01:27:15 -0400
> >> >>X-Message-Info: moY6YVwXQ46hfM+PXD+r03SFMVOY3E1daJYU/Sm1Nkw=
> >> >>Mailing-List: contact ibogaine-help@mindvox.com; run by ezmlm
> >> >>Precedence: bulk
> >> >>X-No-Archive: yes
> >> >>List-Post:
> >> >>List-Help:
> >> >>List-Unsubscribe:
> >> >>List-Subscribe:
> >> >>Delivered-To: mailing list  ibogaine@mindvox.com
> >> >>X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.1 required=4.0
> >> >>X-Antivirus-MYDOMAIN-Mail-From: a.h.veil68@hotmail.com via
> >> >>tanelorn.mindvox.com
> >> >>X-Antivirus-MYDOMAIN: 1.25-st-qms
> >> >>(Clear:RC:0(65.54.224.26):SA:0(-2.1/4.0):. Processed in 8.08646 secs
> >> >>Process 1055)
> >> >>Return-Path:
> >> >>ibogaine-return-23280-billjohnson6=sympatico.ca@mindvox.com
> >> >>X-OriginalArrivalTime: 04 Apr 2006 05:27:22.0868 (UTC)
> >> >>FILETIME=[7363CB40:01C657A8]
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>   I gotta take a piece of this one. Okay, Mr. Anti-choice, let me
> >> >>ask you this: do you eat meat? If not, then good for you. If so,
> >> >>have you ever though about the actual, truly painful, totally
> >>  >>inhumane treatment we put animals through? And usually don’t think
> >> >>twice about it…It’s people like George Bush who make me wish
> >> >>sometimes that God would hurl an asteroid at us! It’s “God forbid
> >> >>one human foetus (who does not feel a thing if the abortion is done
> >> >>in a timely manner, according to the latest research, because their
> >> >>nervous system isn’t nearly fully developed) should perish, no
> >> >>matter if it was caused by a rape or is probably going to be born
> >> >>into alot of suffering–but while I’m on my high horse, cut me a
> >> >>piece o that cow off and cook it up! It’s sheer egotism that we
> >> >>believe that humans are so damned
> >> >>important, but it’s okay if we torture animals, ruin the planet, and
> >> >>make other people  adhere to our beliefs!!! We’re not that important!
> >> >>And if you believe in a God and the soul, then you know that–if the
> >> >>foetus even has a soul yet, which I don’t believe it does..I believe
> >> >>the soul enters with the first breath, and leaves with the
> >> >>last–that baby is just going back into the arms of God! There is no
> >> >>death! And since they don’t experience pain, all it becomes is
> >> >>something for people like you to feel self righteous about!
> >> >>Personally, I think everyone should smoke pot, and would benefit
> >> >>from it (except for a few cases), but how would you like it if I
> >> >>MADE you smoke it? That is, if you don’t, and don’t like it. Or
> >> >>let’s say you eat meat, but I think it’s just as evil to do that as
> >> >>to allow abortions, so  I outlawed meat–would that be okay with you?
> >> >>And the cliff analogy is just stupid–not
> >> >>the same thing at all. But yes, I think if a person is truly
> >> >>miserable, and wants to die, I would try to talk them out of it, but
> >> >>I would never stop them by force. That’s called LACK OF FREEDOM. And
> >> >>if we didn’t make mistakes, how would we ever learn? To be told
> >> >>something is wrong is one thing..you can tell a person, fire will
> >> >>burn you..but until they get burned, they will not truly understand,
> >> >>and that’s what life is all about–learning. No, I don’t like to see
> >> >>foetus’ abortions–I think prevention is the answer….But
> >> >>sometimes, I believe it is ‘the best choice’. If everyone like you
> >> >>had their way, there really would be NO  ROOM AT ALL left!!! We’re
> >> >>already sooo over-populated! It’s like I heard some character say in
> >> >>a movie recently..”everybody’s kids are so special…it makes you
> >> >>wonder where all the normal adults come from”. Even God believes in
> >> >>freedom of choice! That’s why he gave
> >> >>us FREE WILL. You’re a Republican, aren’t you? And you probably
> >> >>think that war-mongering asshole of a President is the best-thing
> >> >>since sliced bread, eh? It’s okay to kill, as long as it’s not a
> >> >>precious child…even though that child may grow up to be The Son of
> >> >>Sam!  well…”take me by the ham, no good, no evil, no give a
> >> >>damn!”  And the Govt. is lying to you! About just about everything.
> >> >>Peace, love, and freedom. Life is too  mysterious to take it so
> >> >>serious!
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>From:  “Billy J”
> >> >>Reply-To:  ibogaine@mindvox.com
> >> >>To:  ibogaine@mindvox.com
> >> >>Subject:  [Ibogaine] RE: [Pornography,psychology,Choice,force,) 2
> >> >>cents
> >> >>Date:  Sun, 02 Apr 2006 21:45:39 -0400
> >> >> >Well It sounds like this place is really mixing it up so I would
> >> >> >like to add a little REALITY TO YOU PRO CHOICERS, I am sure glad I
> >> >> >was not an abortion’ althought I have had my moments.
> >> >> >Yes My Mom was a young Mom and if she had a choice I think that I
> >> >> >would have no Grandkids,  or be babbleing on here.
> >> >> >     I too have an attitude, It is about the only thing in this
> >> >> >world that I really have control over.
> >> >> >Tiger– How well did you do with making ALL your own Choices,
> >> >> >Instead of doing
> >> >>what your were told to do? Not meant to be a shot
> >> >> >at you personally, but I am with the Right or Wrong crowd- No such
> >> >> >thing as grey.
> >> >> >   I do know that some people may have grown up believing that
> >> >>wrong
> >> >> >was right and right was wrong, but I Think that I pretty much knew
> >> >> >when I was stepping out of line and doing wrong.
> >> >> >It is (as most believe) My God , no not God, but My worldly given
> >> >> >Right- to do  wrong- It’s my life and if I want to screw it up then
> >> >> >stay out of my way. And you know what I had a lot of sooo called
> >> >> >friends that did just that WATCHED, AS i WAS Killing myself and
> >> >> >ruining a lot of lifes.
> >> >> >But O O O never no no no neverdare step on somebodys toes because
> >> >> >you know what they have a choice, Just like those poor little
> >> >>Crack
> >> >> >%$^&amp;%$ Women that degrade themselves( and me
> >> >>myself) due to
> >> >> >everybody. But Never No No Never dare tell somebody or force
> >> >>someone
> >> >> >to get some help that they may never ever make it to on their own,
> >> >> >due to something called “Pride” “Shame” “Guilt”
> >> >> >Whatever holds them back. They may end up DEAD and it  would be
> >> >>their
> >> >> >own fault, because you know how STRONG us druggies are, and if
> >> >>that
> >> >> >person dies because he had a choice to get help and refused or
> >> >>just
> >> >> >couldn’t make it on his/her own and needed YOU (of course they
> >> >> >didn’t tell you that).
> >> >> >I am sorry but I BELIEVE that if you Love Someone or even care a
> >> >> >little, and you see them walking off a cliff and YOU have an
> >> >> >opportunity to stop them, and you don’t- Can you truelly say it
> >> >>was
> >> >> >their own fault?
> >> >> >Pornography- I never met too many Normal people that would find it
> >> >> >neccesary to take their
> >> >>cloths off for the public to see. Totally
> >> >> >wrong  and if you had your own kids you might not think it too cool
> >> >> >having your buddy beating off while checking out your little girl.
> >> >> >Not nice eh Billy but P–sy T-ts are not meant for anyone except
> >> >>who
> >> >> >they belong to and their mate.
> >> >> >
> >> >> >Bye For Now, That stuff is about the biggest trigger going for any
> >> >> >downfall
> >> >> >
> >> >> >Bill
> >> >> >—-Original Message Follows—-
> >> >> >From: “Nick Sandberg”
> >> >> >Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
> >> >> >To:
> >> >> >Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Opiates
> >> >> >Date: Sun, 2 Apr 2006 10:24:07 +0100
> >> >> >MIME-Version: 1.0
> >> >>  >Received: from tomts21-srv.bellnexxia.net ([209.226.175.183]) by
> >> >> >bay0-pamc1-f11.bay0.hotmail.com with Microsoft
> >> >> >SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Sun, 2 Apr 2006 05:38:59
> >> >>-0700
> >> >> >Received: from toip5.bellnexxia.net ([209.226.175.88])          by
> >> >> >tomts21-srv.bellnexxia.net          (InterMail vM.5.01.06.13
> >> >> >201-253-122-130-113-20050324) with ESMTP          id
> >> >> >
> >> >> >          for ; Sun, 2 Apr 2006
> >> >>08:38:58
> >>  >> >-0400
> >> >> >Received: from tanelorn.mindvox.com (HELO mail.mindvox.com)
> >> >> >([64.124.179.118])  by toip5.bellnexxia.net with ESMTP; 02 Apr
> >> >>2006
> >> >> >08:38:58 -0400
> >> >> >Received: (qmail 16967 invoked by uid 513); 2 Apr 2006 08:38:55
> >> >> >-0400
> >> >> >Received: (qmail 16961 invoked by uid
> >> >>514); 2 Apr 2006 08:38:55
> >> >> >-0400
> >> >> >X-Message-Info: moY6YVwXQ44WAJnUvaOEtK2hXKGagKAsshDbZwj7pSc=
> >> >> >Mailing-List: contact ibogaine-help@mindvox.com; run by ezmlm
> >> >> >Precedence: bulk
> >> >> >X-No-Archive: yes
> >> >> >List-Post:
> >> >> >List-Help:
> >> >>  >List-Unsubscribe:
> >> >> >List-Subscribe:
> >> >> >Delivered-To: mailing list ibogaine@mindvox.com
> >> >> >X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.3 required=4.0
> >> >> >X-Antivirus-MYDOMAIN-Mail-From: nick227@tiscali.co.uk via
> >> >> >tanelorn.mindvox.com
> >> >> >X-Antivirus-MYDOMAIN: 1.25-st-qms
> >> >> >(Clear:RC:0(212.74.114.37):SA:0(-2.3/4.0):. Processed in 2.781926
> >> >> >secs Process 16953)
> >> >> >X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true
> >> >> >X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result:
> >> >>AQAAAJ0kL0SDE4UI
> >> >> >X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.6604 (9.0.2911.0)
> >> >> >Return-Path:
> >> >>  >ibogaine-return-23233-billjohnson6=sympatico.ca@mindvox.com
> >> >> >X-OriginalArrivalTime: 02 Apr 2006 12:38:59.0373 (UTC)
> >> >> >FILETIME=[6A155DD0:01C65652]
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> >   —–Original Message—–
> >> >> >   From: Tiger Lisa [mailto:tigerlisa@gmail.com]
> >> >> >   Sent: 01 April 2006 13:44
> >> >> >   To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
> >> >> >   Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Opiates
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> >   Dear Nick,
> >> >> >   Here’ the part I don’t understand.
> >> >> >
> >> >> >   You wrote,
> >> >> >   Personally, my position is…I think rising awareness is GOOD.
> >>  >>I
> >> >> >would
> >> >> >love to see more people in groups, going through their stuff,
> >> >> >becoming more
> >> >> >aware of their
> >> >>personal interior dynamic, and moving forward in
> >> >> >life. But,
> >> >> >sadly, I’m not in a position to compel people to do this.
> >> >> >
> >> >> >   Why would you ever want to COMPEL anyone to do ANYTHING? Do you
> >> >> >really
> >> >> >believe that would be useful, effective, helpful? Do you think
> >> >> >people
> >> >> >actually benefit from, and grow from, being FORCED to do anything?
> >> >> >
> >> >> >   That is a parent-child model of interaction (and not a
> >> >> >particularly
> >> >> >skillful one, IMO),  and it’s going to reinforce childlike,
> >> >> >rebellious and
> >> >> >victim behavior (NOT self-awareness!) in the one so compelled, as
> >> >> >well as
> >> >> >reinforcing bullying behavior and disprespectful and righteous
> >> >> >attitudes
> >> >> >(NOT increased compassion or awareness) in the one doing the
> >> >> >compelling. A
> >> >> >”lose-lose” interaction–no one
> >> >>wins!
> >> >> >
> >> >> >   Myself, I believe CHOICE is the name of the game. With choice
> >> >> >comes
> >> >> >responsibility, self-responsibility and a loss of the victim
> >> >> >consciousness
> >> >> >that drives continued reactive and unconscious behavior.
> >> >> >
> >> >> >   So in  a nutshell: Saying something (like awarenss) is GOOD is
> >> >>one
> >> >> >thing,
> >> >> >but it’s a far cry from that to say,”And I’d love to FORCE you all
> >> >> >to be
> >> >> >more aware! too bad I can’t!” I think that is the essence of
> >> >>what
> >> >> >*I* am
> >> >> >having a problem with. Yes, awareness is good. I agree. Yes, I’d
> >> >> >love to
> >> >> >live in a more aware society, umm hmm. Then I read the next
> >> >>sentence
> >> >> >and I’m
> >> >> >brought up short.
> >> >> >
> >> >> >   We all need love, acceptance, compassion. Compassion is one of
> >> >> >the most
> >> >> >healing things
> >> >>going! Power and control, on the other hand, just  get
> >> >> >people’s backs up, thrust them into dysfunctional modes of
> >> >>thinking
> >> >> >and
> >> >> >perpetuate a lack of awareness all around.
> >> >> >
> >> >> >   Just my two cents,
> >> >> >   Tiger
> >> >> >
> >> >> >   PS I bet if you took a shot of heroin, you would experience
> >> >> >bliss! (not
> >> >> >that I’m suggesting you do) I believe it is just how human beings
> >> >> >are wired.
> >> >> >We’ve all got the same neurotransmitters, more or less.
> >> >> >
> >> >> >   Hi Tiger,
> >> >> >
> >> >> >   Well, I seem to recall, from the days when I used to go to
> >> >> >conferences and
> >> >>  >stuff, that studies have shown that only a small percentage of
> >> >> >school kids
> >> >> >who used heroin developed a habit. (Howard Parker in Sheffield, or
> >> >> >something
> >> >> >like that, about 1000 individuals
> >> >>studied). This is not quite the
> >> >> >same as
> >> >> >what you’re saying, I appreciate, but it shows that the drug of
> >> >> >itself is
> >> >> >not necessarily addicting. I don’t know if anyone knows what makes
> >> >>a
> >> >> >difference but I’d be willing to bet that, psychologically, it
> >> >> >relates
> >> >> >strongly to “ego orientation” vs “underlying levels of feeling.”
> >> >>If
> >> >> >you’ve
> >> >> >developed a self-image that requires you to repress more  feelings
> >> >> >than the
> >> >> >endogenous opiates in your body can do, then taking heroin is
> >> >>going
> >> >> >to make
> >> >> >you feel pretty good. I would personally say that this is very
> >> >> >likely one
> >> >> >psychological mechanism behind addiction. This would explain why
> >> >>so
> >> >> >many
> >> >> >addicts do come from relatively high trauma backgrounds. For, as
> >> >> >kids, we
> >> >> >learn that to “get things” and to “be popular” we need to
> >> >>be able to
> >> >> >keep
> >> >> >our feelings a bit under control, not just likely to collapse from
> >> >> >overfeeling at any time.
> >> >> >
> >> >> >   With bliss, (or anxiety for that matter),  these are
> >> >>experiential
> >> >> >things
> >> >> >and no neuroscientist can explain them beyond pointing a little at
> >> >> >things
> >> >> >that seem to be involved. What is clear is that the states are
> >> >> >relative to
> >> >> >one another. If you’re basically a happy person bliss is
> >> >>inevitably
> >> >> >less
> >> >> >attractive than if you’re an anxious person.
> >> >> >
> >> >> >   About awareness, yes, I would love to force everyone to be more
> >> >> >aware!
> >> >> >And, inevitably, it doesn’t really work like that! But that’s my
> >> >> >position
> >> >> >anyway. What to do? Yes, compassion is needed, sometimes a lot of
> >> >> >it. Also,
> >> >>  >all the power and control at times. I’m not so
> >> >>busy with how I think
> >> >> >society
> >> >> >should be, or trying to like Understand the world, I just put my
> >> >> >position
> >> >> >out really. About choice, well, it seems like a great thing, for
> >> >> >sure, but
> >> >> >to me it’s a little the same as trying to push compassion at the
> >> >> >expense of
> >> >> >power. In philosophy or spirituality or whatever, some people
> >> >> >believe that
> >> >> >free will exists, others that the universe is entirely
> >> >> >deterministic. Who
> >> >> >the fuck knows? Both are cool viewpoints, and I personally
> >> >>wouldn’t
> >> >> >just
> >> >> >want to just trapped in just one of  them.
> >> >> >
> >> >> >   Is it cool to allow someone you care about to carry on fucking
> >> >> >their life
> >> >> >up because you believe so much in their free will? Not for me! I
> >> >> >like to
> >> >> >have the guts to take a position. And, to be honest, it’s a little
> >> >>
> >> >> >bit what
> >> >> >I miss in this list, where half the time everyone seems to be
> >> >> >talking it up
> >> >> >all nice but actually underneath there are shed-loads of feelings.
> >> >>I
> >> >> >don’t
> >> >> >know if this says anything significant about ibogaine, or about
> >> >>the
> >> >> >people
> >> >> >who are attracted to administering it, or what. But I notice it.
> >> >>  >
> >> >> >   Nick
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> >/]=———————————————————————=[\
> >> >> >[%] Ibogaine List Commands:
> >> >> >http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
> >> >> >
> >> >> >\]=———————————————————————=[/
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >>
> >> >>  With MSN Spaces email straight to your blog. Upload jokes, photos
> >> >>and more. It’s free!
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>/]=———————————————————————=[\
> >> >>  [%] Ibogaine List  Commands:
> >> >>http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
> >> >>
> >> >>\]=———————————————————————=[/
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>/]=———————————————————————=[\
> >> >>[%] Ibogaine List Commands:
> >> >>http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
> >> >>
> >> >>\]=———————————————————————=[/
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > Be one of the first to try Windows Live Mail
> >> > /]=———————————————————————=[\
> >> > [%] Ibogaine List Commands:
> >> http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html
> >> > [%]
> >> > \]=———————————————————————=[/
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. PC-to-Phone calls for ridiculously low
> >> rates.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >   /]=———————————————————————=[\
> >> >  [%] Ibogaine List Commands:
> >> http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html
> >> > [%]
> >> >   \]=———————————————————————=[/
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>   /]=———————————————————————=[\
> >>  [%] Ibogaine List Commands:
> >> http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
> >>   \]=———————————————————————=[/
> >>
> >>
> >  Save time by starting a search from any Web page with the MSN Search
> > Toolbar-FREE!
> > /]=———————————————————————=[\
> >  [%] Ibogaine List Commands:
> > http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
> > \]=———————————————————————=[/
>
>
>
>
>   /]=———————————————————————=[\
>  [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
>   \]=———————————————————————=[/
>
>

See if you’ve won, play MSN Search and Win /]=———————————————————————=[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%] \]=———————————————————————=[/

From: “Billy J” <billjohnson6@sympatico.ca>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Don’t Go- Stay.
Date: April 5, 2006 at 6:53:14 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Dear Allan,
I do have a heart, and other parts too, and it takes all of my parts to sometimes,just get by,
and whether you like it or not you, Allan are a part of this list that I am really just a newcomer to, and I have no right to offend You, So, Please keep on Talking and I promise to NEVER be Sarcastic with you again, and if you need to blast off in order to get rid of some of your _hit then personally, I would rather see (or hear) you do it here then to take it somewhere else maybe.
Now please do not come back to say something really sad, because today Allan I think I could really use a HUGE BLAST of something, and that does not include deathly insults OK,
Bye for now.

Your Redneck

—-Original Message Follows—-
From: “Alan Hehe” <a.h.veil68@hotmail.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Go kick your Cow
Date: Wed, 05 Apr 2006 18:31:32 -0400
MIME-Version: 1.0
Received: from tomts12-srv.bellnexxia.net ([209.226.175.56]) by bay0-pamc1-f1.bay0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Wed, 5 Apr 2006 15:31:42 -0700
Received: from toip4.bellnexxia.net ([209.226.175.87])          by tomts12-srv.bellnexxia.net          (InterMail vM.5.01.06.13 201-253-122-130-113-20050324) with ESMTP          id <20060405223141.VSVJ1758.tomts12-srv.bellnexxia.net@toip4.bellnexxia.net>          for <billjohnson6@sympatico.ca>; Wed, 5 Apr 2006 18:31:41 -0400
Received: from tanelorn.mindvox.com (HELO mail.mindvox.com) ([64.124.179.118])  by toip4.bellnexxia.net with ESMTP; 05 Apr 2006 18:31:40 -0400
Received: (qmail 2804 invoked by uid 513); 5 Apr 2006 18:31:39 -0400
Received: (qmail 2798 invoked by uid 514); 5 Apr 2006 18:31:39 -0400
X-Message-Info: moY6YVwXQ473QIVaGTy0vd6BRtNAOwbFE6Q8KKsI2ns=
Mailing-List: contact ibogaine-help@mindvox.com; run by ezmlm
Precedence: bulk
X-No-Archive: yes
List-Post: <mailto:ibogaine@mindvox.com>
List-Help: <mailto:ibogaine-help@mindvox.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:ibogaine-unsubscribe@mindvox.com>
List-Subscribe: <mailto:ibogaine-subscribe@mindvox.com>
Delivered-To: mailing list ibogaine@mindvox.com
X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.1 required=4.0
X-Antivirus-MYDOMAIN-Mail-From: a.h.veil68@hotmail.com via tanelorn.mindvox.com
X-Antivirus-MYDOMAIN: 1.25-st-qms (Clear:RC:0(65.54.224.19):SA:0(-2.1/4.0):. Processed in 3.947192 secs Process 2711)
Return-Path: ibogaine-return-23387-billjohnson6=sympatico.ca@mindvox.com
X-OriginalArrivalTime: 05 Apr 2006 22:31:42.0624 (UTC) FILETIME=[B6AC1200:01C65900]

It is better to be thought of as o fool than to open your Mouth(or Gate)
and Remove All Doubt.

Oh, I heartily agree, Billy Boy–and feel the exact same way about you. Oh, yeah, and Nick, yeah he’s a real class act. But don’t worry, because you won’t be hearing from me anymore (YOU either, NICK) ’cause I’ve decided that, except for Preston, Kirsty, Callie, Anne, Randy, Matt, and alot of other people, this list is just full of people who talk the talk (of bullshit) but can’t walk the walk…oh, jeeze, I just realized that the people I like are just about everone except you and Nick! But I’m still gonna remove myself from this list, since it has practically nothing to do with ibogaine, and a whole lot to do with people who, IMO, are heartless rednecks or just confused bullshitters, both of which want to force people into doing or not doing what they believe. Besides that, I have a life that’s getting very busy right now…I’m moving in with a herd of cattle!!!
To the rest of you, good luck. To Nick, or Crooked Eye, and Bill, well–fuck you! I’m outta here, as much as that’s gonnna break your hearts…well, Bill doesn’t have much of one, and who knows about Nick, since after all his complaining about people not listening and just          reacting, he couldn’t come up with a letter explaining what he does believe–other than everyone is emotionally fucked up–and oh, that’s BIG NEWS! I never knew that! And that he’s got the answer, though he doesn’t know what it is!  Kirsty, you were right. And I don’t care how much meat you folks eat–in fact, chow down on as much artery clogging meat as you can get your hands on..PLEASE!

From:  “Billy J” <billjohnson6@sympatico.ca>
Reply-To:  ibogaine@mindvox.com
To:  ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject:  RE: [Ibogaine] Go kick your Cow
Date:  Wed, 05 Apr 2006 18:07:10 -0400
>
>And as the old Red Neck saying Goes—
>
>Allan Baybe,
>It is better to be thought of as o fool than to open your Mouth(or
>Gate)
>and Remove All Doubt.
>
>And You How Totally Removed The Doubt.
>Nick has Class and Wisdon,
>You Have what you Call a high I.Q.
>But A Short attention Span. I heard that Riddlelyn Works.
>
>Billy Boy Your Little redneck.
>
>—-Original Message Follows—-
>From: “Alan Hehe” <a.h.veil68@hotmail.com>
>Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
>To:
ibogaine@mindvox.com
>Subject: [Ibogaine]  Nick
>Date: Wed, 05 Apr 2006 13:47:40 -0400
>MIME-Version: 1.0
>Received: from tomts11-srv.bellnexxia.net ([209.226.175.55]) by
>bay0-pamc1-f12.bay0.hotmail.com with Microsoft
>SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Wed, 5 Apr 2006 10:47:58 -0700
>Received: from toip6.bellnexxia.net ([209.226.175.174])          by
>tomts11-srv.bellnexxia.net          (InterMail vM.5.01.06.13
>201-253-122-130-113-20050324) with ESMTP          id
><20060405175013.FTXP6620.tomts11-srv.bellnexxia.net@toip6.bellnexxia.net>
>          for <billjohnson6@sympatico.ca>; Wed, 5 Apr 2006 13:50:13

>-0400
>Received: from tanelorn.mindvox.com (HELO mail.mindvox.com)
>([64.124.179.118])  by toip6.bellnexxia.net with ESMTP; 05 Apr 2006
>13:47:50 -0400
>Received: (qmail 31302 invoked by uid 513); 5 Apr 2006 13:47:49
>-0400
>Received: (qmail 31296 invoked by uid 514); 5 Apr 2006 13:47:49
>-0400
>X-Message-Info: moY6YVwXQ473QIVaGTy0vd6BRtNAOwbFE6Q8KKsI2ns=
>Mailing-List: contact ibogaine-help@mindvox.com; run by ezmlm
>Precedence: bulk
>X-No-Archive: yes
>List-Post: <mailto:ibogaine@mindvox.com>
>List-Help: <mailto:ibogaine-help@mindvox.com>
>List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:ibogaine-unsubscribe@mindvox.com>
>List-Subscribe: <mailto:ibogaine-subscribe@mindvox.com>
>Delivered-To: mailing list ibogaine@mindvox.com
>X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.3
required=4.0
>X-Antivirus-MYDOMAIN-Mail-From: a.h.veil68@hotmail.com via
>tanelorn.mindvox.com
>X-Antivirus-MYDOMAIN: 1.25-st-qms
>(Clear:RC:0(65.54.224.24):SA:0(-2.3/4.0):. Processed in 5.319846
>secs Process 31270)
>Return-Path:
>ibogaine-return-23365-billjohnson6=sympatico.ca@mindvox.com
>X-OriginalArrivalTime: 05 Apr 2006 17:47:58.0777 (UTC)
>FILETIME=[13AB2A90:01C658D9]
>
>  Nick–
>
>   Well, just as I expected, you can’t explain any of your beliefs
>or why you believe them, and you have made me regret saying I was
>sorry for being hard on it. I think YOU are the one with some
>serious emotional and mental problems, Nick…at least IMO. Saying
>you don’t feel like a “mindy discussion is just bullshit, a cop out,
>as is your statement about
detachment. Just because it doesn’t work
>for you doesn’t mean it doesn’t work for anyone…But I guess you
>must be wiser than The Buddha, or Lao-tse too. I didn’t ask you to
>try to explain the nature of reality or the universe, Nick.
>    You are always complaining about people not listening and just
>reacting, and then when I politely ask you to explain your beliefs,
>like your one about encounter therapy, you don’t have shit to say,
>except to denounce other ideas as bullshit. I really don’t think you
>know what you think…I believe, IMO, that you are a very confused
>person. Well–let’s leave it at that. You had your chance, an actual
>request, to state what you think, and you just avoided it by
>denouncing other things…It’s easy to say someone or something is
>bullshit–it’s much
harder to say positive things about what YOU
>think and believe. You’re just hopeless to me Nick, so please stop
>writing to me…I know you’ll want to respond to this, and I will
>read that, but whether you stop or not, I’m simply going to ignore
>your posts…at least until you have something real to say.
>
>Alan.
>  Save time by starting a search from any Web page with the MSN
>Search
Toolbar-FREE!
>
>
>
>
>/]=———————————————————————=[\
>  [%] Ibogaine List Commands:
>http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
>
>\]=———————————————————————=[/
>
>
>
>
>
>/]=———————————————————————=[\
>[%] Ibogaine List Commands:
>http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
>
>\]=———————————————————————=[/
>
>

Get turn-by-turn driving directions you can really use – Windows Live Local is here!

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: Crooked Eye <iboganaut420@yahoo.com>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Go kick your Cow
Date: April 5, 2006 at 6:38:57 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Yeah, fuck me cause I try to lighten the mood by poking fun at vegetarians??  Well suit yourself, goodbye and good riddance..  You seem like an over emotional child with the rage you express in your emails at people who simply enjoy debating topics that arise..  I understand that coming from an addict, as when you are so numbed, your rage builds up within(probably why you continue to medicate, rather than work through your problems)..  I was an addict, and have known plenty who turn to downright assholes when they are under the influence..  Hopefully you find Iboga and piece of mind, as I do feel sorry for you..  Also, it brings to mind a saying I read once:  Arguing on the internet is like running the for the Special Olympics because no matter who wins, you’re still retarded…
http://carcino.gen.nz/images/index.php/00b9a680/463c5922
Love,
CE

Alan Hehe <a.h.veil68@hotmail.com> wrote:
It is better to be thought of as o fool than to open your Mouth(or Gate)
and Remove All Doubt.
Oh, I heartily agree, Billy Boy–and feel the exact same way about you. Oh, yeah, and Nick, yeah he’s a real class act. But don’t worry, because you won’t be hearing from me anymore (YOU either, NICK) ’cause I’ve decided that, except for Preston, Kirsty, Callie, Anne, Randy, Matt, and alot of other people, this list is just full of people who talk the talk (of bullshit) but can’t walk the walk…oh, jeeze, I just realized that the people I like are just about everone except you and Nick! But I’m still gonna remove myself from this list, since it has practically nothing to do with ibogaine, and a whole lot to do with people who, IMO, are heartless rednecks or just confused bullshitters, both of which want to force people into doing or not doing what they believe. Besides that, I have a life that’s getting very busy right now…I’m moving in with a herd of cattle!!! To the rest of you, good luck. To Nick, or Crooked Eye, and Bill, well–fuck you! I’m outta here, as much as that’s gonnna break your hearts…well, Bill doesn’t have much of one, and who knows about Nick, since after all his complaining about people not listening and just          reacting, he couldn’t come up with a letter explaining what he does believe–other than everyone is emotionally fucked up–and oh, that’s BIG NEWS! I never knew that! And that he’s got the answer, though he doesn’t know what it is!  Kirsty, you were right. And I don’t care how much meat you folks eat–in fact, chow down on as much artery clogging meat as you can get your hands on..PLEASE!

From:  “Billy J” <billjohnson6@sympatico.ca>
Reply-To:  ibogaine@mindvox.com
To:  ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject:  RE: [Ibogaine] Go kick your Cow
Date:  Wed, 05 Apr 2006 18:07:10 -0400
>
>And as the old Red Neck saying Goes—
>
>Allan Baybe,
>It is better to be thought of as o fool than to open your Mouth(or
>Gate)
>and Remove All Doubt.
>
>And You How Totally Removed The Doubt.
>Nick has Class and Wisdon,
>You Have what you Call a high I.Q.
>But A Short attention Span. I heard that Riddlelyn Works.
>
>Billy Boy Your Little redneck.
>
>—-Original Message Follows—-
>From: “Alan Hehe” <a.h.veil68@hotmail.com>
>Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
>To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
>Subject: [Ibogaine]  Nick
>Date: Wed, 05 Apr 2006 13:47:40 -0400
>MIME-Version: 1.0
>Received: from tomts11-srv.bellnexxia.net ([209.226.175.55]) by
>bay0-pamc1-f12.bay0.hotmail.com with Microsoft
>SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Wed, 5 Apr 2006 10:47:58 -0700
>Received: from toip6.bellnexxia.net ([209.226.175.174])          by
>tomts11-srv.bellnexxia.net          (InterMail vM.5.01.06.13
>201-253-122-130-113-20050324) with ESMTP          id
><20060405175013.FTXP6620.tomts11-srv.bellnexxia.net@toip6.bellnexxia.net>
>          for <billjohnson6@sympatico.ca>; Wed, 5 Apr 2006 13:50:13
>-0400
>Received: from tanelorn.mindvox.com (HELO mail.mindvox.com)
>([64.124.179.118])  by toip6.bellnexxia.net with ESMTP; 05 Apr 2006
>13:47:50 -0400
>Received: (qmail 31302 invoked by uid 513); 5 Apr 2006 13:47:49
>-0400
>Received: (qmail 31296 invoked by uid 514); 5 Apr 2006 13:47:49
>-0400
>X-Message-Info: moY6YVwXQ473QIVaGTy0vd6BRtNAOwbFE6Q8KKsI2ns=
>Mailing-List: contact ibogaine-help@mindvox.com; run by ezmlm
>Precedence: bulk
>X-No-Archive: yes
>List-Post: <mailto:ibogaine@mindvox.com>
>List-Help: <mailto:ibogaine-help@mindvox.com>
>List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:ibogaine-unsubscribe@mindvox.com>
>List-Subscribe: <mailto:ibogaine-subscribe@mindvox.com>
>Delivered-To: mailing list ibogaine@mindvox.com
>X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.3 required=4.0
>X-Antivirus-MYDOMAIN-Mail-From: a.h.veil68@hotmail.com via
>tanelorn.mindvox.com
>X-Antivirus-MYDOMAIN: 1.25-st-qms
>(Clear:RC:0(65.54.224.24):SA:0(-2.3/4.0):. Processed in 5.319846
>secs Process 31270)
>Return-Path:
>ibogaine-return-23365-billjohnson6=sympatico.ca@mindvox.com
>X-OriginalArrivalTime: 05 Apr 2006 17:47:58.0777 (UTC)
>FILETIME=[13AB2A90:01C658D9]
>
>  Nick–
>
>   Well, just as I expected, you can’t explain any of your beliefs
>or why you believe them, and you have made me regret saying I was
>sorry for being hard on it. I think YOU are the one with some
>serious emotional and mental problems, Nick…at least IMO. Saying
>you don’t feel like a “mindy discussion is just bullshit, a cop out,
>as is your statement about detachment. Just because it doesn’t work
>for you doesn’t mean it doesn’t work for anyone…But I guess you
>must be wiser than The Buddha, or Lao-tse too. I didn’t ask you to
>try to explain the nature of reality or the universe, Nick.
>    You are always complaining about people not listening and just
>reacting, and then when I politely ask you to explain your beliefs,
>like your one about encounter therapy, you don’t have shit to say,
>except to denounce other ideas as bullshit. I really don’t think you
>know what you think…I believe, IMO, that you are a very confused
>person. Well–let’s leave it at that. You had your chance, an actual
>request, to state what you think, and you just avoided it by
>denouncing other things…It’s easy to say someone or something is
>bullshit–it’s much harder to say positive things about what YOU
>think and believe. You’re just hopeless to me Nick, so please stop
>writing to me…I know you’ll want to respond to this, and I will
>read that, but whether you stop or not, I’m simply going to ignore
>your posts…at least until you have something real to say.
>
>Alan.
>  Save time by starting a search from any Web page with the MSN
>Search Toolbar-FREE!
>
>
>
>
>/]=———————————————————————=[\
>  [%] Ibogaine List Commands:
>http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
>
>\]=———————————————————————=[/
>
>
>
>
>
>/]=———————————————————————=[\
>[%] Ibogaine List Commands:
>http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
>
>\]=———————————————————————=[/
>
>

Get turn-by-turn driving directions you can really use – Windows Live Local is here! /]=———————————————————————=[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%] \]=———————————————————————=[/

Blab-away for as little as 1¢/min. Make PC-to-Phone Calls using Yahoo! Messenger with Voice.

From: “Billy J” <billjohnson6@sympatico.ca>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] I like you?
Date: April 5, 2006 at 6:34:44 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Except for the _uck’sake

Lets here what you have to offer because I feel the same way,

Bill

P.S. There is a couple of decent posts(with links) about Ibogaine and some studys just a few posts ago.
And although I am fresh I think they are from Our leader???  If We have One.

—-Original Message Follows—-
From: “Mason Shipley” <maseshipley@gmail.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Pot calling the Kettle Black?
Date: Wed, 5 Apr 2006 17:23:31 -0400
MIME-Version: 1.0
Received: from tomts41-srv.bellnexxia.net ([209.226.175.98]) by bay0-pamc1-f12.bay0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Wed, 5 Apr 2006 14:23:45 -0700
Received: from toip5.bellnexxia.net ([209.226.175.88])          by tomts41-srv.bellnexxia.net          (InterMail vM.5.01.06.13 201-253-122-130-113-20050324) with ESMTP          id <20060405212344.VNKD1323.tomts41-srv.bellnexxia.net@toip5.bellnexxia.net>          for <billjohnson6@sympatico.ca>; Wed, 5 Apr 2006 17:23:44 -0400
Received: from tanelorn.mindvox.com (HELO mail.mindvox.com) ([64.124.179.118])  by toip5.bellnexxia.net with ESMTP; 05 Apr 2006 17:23:39 -0400
Received: (qmail 10790 invoked by uid 513); 5 Apr 2006 17:23:34 -0400
Received: (qmail 10784 invoked by uid 514); 5 Apr 2006 17:23:34 -0400
X-Message-Info: moY6YVwXQ473QIVaGTy0vd6BRtNAOwbFE6Q8KKsI2ns=
Mailing-List: contact ibogaine-help@mindvox.com; run by ezmlm
Precedence: bulk
X-No-Archive: yes
List-Post: <mailto:ibogaine@mindvox.com>
List-Help: <mailto:ibogaine-help@mindvox.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:ibogaine-unsubscribe@mindvox.com>
List-Subscribe: <mailto:ibogaine-subscribe@mindvox.com>
Delivered-To: mailing list ibogaine@mindvox.com
X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.9 required=4.0
X-Antivirus-MYDOMAIN-Mail-From: maseshipley@gmail.com via tanelorn.mindvox.com
X-Antivirus-MYDOMAIN: 1.25-st-qms (Clear:RC:0(64.233.184.230):SA:0(-1.9/4.0):. Processed in 2.491127 secs Process 10758)
References: <BAY105-F166264E69C25819F00BD11DED40@phx.gbl>
Return-Path: ibogaine-return-23379-billjohnson6=sympatico.ca@mindvox.com
X-OriginalArrivalTime: 05 Apr 2006 21:23:45.0921 (UTC) FILETIME=[38C48F10:01C658F7]

I usually click on some of the names here and read messages depending
on who wrote them, Patrick, Howard, Jon, Preston too, when he attaches
photos of something other than himself (you’re beautiful, but not my
type). I’m interested in both ibogaine and have opened my mind about
some of the alternate approaches to the steps here.

But the pile of crap that’s landed in my mailbox in the last few days
is becoming ridiculous. Would some of you please for god’s sake, take
some of this drivel to the pseudo intellectual lounge, where you can
talk about god, abortion, whatever it is you want to discuss that has
nothing to do with either addiction or ibogaine and for fuck’s sake,
please shut up already. You’re all geniuses, then why are you still on
drugs and trying to get off them without having any success?

Addicts trying to get clean I can deal with, pseudes babbling at one
another I don’t need to hear. Gmail never seems to have any problems,
I get every message always, lucky me.

-Mase

On 4/2/06, Alan Hehe <a.h.veil68@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>     Hey…uh, Biscuit Boy,
>
>     What’s the matter? Do you NOT like my debate with Nick, or do you just
> not like the fact that Ann paid me a compliment? Do you agree with Nick’s
> idea that only emotionally repressed individuals receive any sort of high
> from opiates? If you’ve got something to say, why not come out and say it?
> Have you never done opiates? Or any drugs? What gives you the right to judge
> Ann? Personally I don’t care if her comment was influened by a whole gram of
> Mexican brown! Better a nice compliment from someone high, than a nasty one
> from someone sober! Now, if I’ve misconstrued your intent, I apologize, but
> I would appreciate a logical explanation rather than a low-blow insinuation.
>
>
>
>  ________________________________
>
> From:  biscuitboy714@aol.com
> Reply-To:  ibogaine@mindvox.com
> To:  ibogaine@mindvox.com
> Subject:  Re: [Ibogaine] Opiate effects
> Date:  Sun, 02 Apr 2006 11:05:09 -0400
> >Yea Ann, tell us how much heroin you shot last night. He He I
> >couldn’t help it. I love you Mamma           Randy
> >
> >—–Original Message—–
> >From: Alan Hehe <a.h.veil68@hotmail.com>
> >To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
> >Sent: Sat, 01 Apr 2006 11:15:03 -0500
> >Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Opiate effects
> >
> >     Hey Ann,
> >
> >     Thank you for the compliment…Somebody’s got to try to counter
> >his crazy ideas with some sense. Feel free to write me anytime..I
> >really enjoy talking to people on this list and hearing their
> >stories…Oh, don’t tell anyone, but I studied semantics and debate
> >in high school! Just kidding…about the hush hush, as anyone will
> >be able to read this. Oh, heck–LOL! I’m 37, and High school is but
> >a distant, mainly unplesant experience…except when I would catch
> >my English teacher making grammatical or syntactical mistakes,
> >before they moved me into an A.P. college-level class…And no, I’m
> >not conceited, either..but I do enjoy debate! Everyone has certain
> >qualities at which they excel, and others at which they are
> >deficient. I make up for my skill in English by being a retard in
> >math! Plus, I couldn’t be that smart or I wouldn’t be here, looking
> >for a way out of the hell-hole I dug for myself….and despite
> >having a really shitty childhood, I take complete responsibility for
> >my current position in
> >life……………………………….Wishing you the
> best in
> >all…….Alan.

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: Crooked Eye <iboganaut420@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] What is a cbgb’s gig
Date: April 5, 2006 at 6:31:57 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

CBGB is some kind of club or something and BTW means by the way

Billy J <billjohnson6@sympatico.ca> wrote:
I must be new,
What is BTW and cbgb,
a group? chemical?
Curious, I Think
Or aas some here may say just not intelligent (a_ Bayby)

Bill

—-Original Message Follows—-
From: “Preston Peet”
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To:
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] (OT) old cbgb’s gig
Date: Wed, 5 Apr 2006 17:13:09 -0400
MIME-Version: 1.0
Received: from tomts48-srv.bellnexxia.net ([209.226.175.192]) by
bay0-pamc1-f9.bay0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Wed, 5
Apr 2006 14:15:21 -0700
Received: from toip3.bellnexxia.net ([209.226.175.86]) by
tomts48-srv.bellnexxia.net (InterMail vM.5.01.06.13
201-253-122-130-113-20050324) with ESMTP id
<20060405211520.UFHM29645.tomts48-srv.bellnexxia.net@toip3.bellnexxia.net>
for ; Wed, 5 Apr 2006 17:15:20 -0400
Received: from tanelorn.mindvox.com (HELO mail.mindvox.com)
([64.124.179.118]) by toip3.bellnexxia.net with ESMTP; 05 Apr 2006 17:15:14
-0400
Received: (qmail 7845 invoked by uid 513); 5 Apr 2006 17:15:12 -0400
Received: (qmail 7838 invoked by uid 514); 5 Apr 2006 17:15:12 -0400
X-Message-Info: 6sSXyD95QpVhow9GF2Xm1Q2OkqLiuKAem0H7Edb/Qx4=
Mailing-List: contact ibogaine-help@mindvox.com; run by ezmlm
Precedence: bulk
X-No-Archive: yes
List-Post:
List-Help:
List-Unsubscribe:
List-Subscribe:
Delivered-To: mailing list ibogaine@mindvox.com
X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.5 required=4.0
X-Antivirus-MYDOMAIN-Mail-From: ptpeet@nyc.rr.com via tanelorn.mindvox.com
X-Antivirus-MYDOMAIN: 1.25-st-qms (Clear:RC:0(24.29.109.6):SA:0(-2.5/4.0):.
Processed in 3.604546 secs Process 7794)
References: <001601c658a8$3738d7e0$e8266c42@Prestonsoffice>
<14332.162.129.236.22.1144268651.squirrel@64.124.179.118>
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180
X-Virus-Scanned: Symantec AntiVirus Scan Engine
Return-Path: ibogaine-return-23378-billjohnson6=sympatico.ca@mindvox.com
X-OriginalArrivalTime: 05 Apr 2006 21:15:21.0608 (UTC)
FILETIME=[0C2C8080:01C658F6]

So far as I know, the battle continues.
The landlord is actually a homeless shelter/outreach program, and CBGBs is
apparently kinda bad about wanting to pay the rent. Or something along these
lines (please don’t hold me to this, I could be utterly mistaken in my
rememory of the particulars). It’d be a shame to see the place close, even
though I don’t very often find myself inside CBGBs. I live close by, but not
nearly as close as those at 9Bleeker.

—–
“If God dropped acid, would he see people?” ~Steven Wright

Peace, love and lotsof respect.
Preston Peet
ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor Underground- the Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations,
Astonishing Archaeology and Hidden History
Editor Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Columnist HighTimes mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —– From:
To:
Sent: Wednesday, April 05, 2006 4:24 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] (OT) old cbgb’s gig

>neat =)
>
>btw, how do you know how cbgb’s is doing with their lease or whatever? i
>read an article sometime last year that said the landlord was pushing the
>rent way up or something and that their future looked kinda shaky.
>
>
>>Hi all,
>>I realize I’ve been posting lots of photos lately. Here’re are three more
>>(I’ve attached them too Callie), from a show V and I did with our old band
>>at CBGB’s about 8 years ago, back in one of my mohawk phases. This was
>>taken during my methadone days as well. (So is this on or off topic?)
>>Funny how I’m not a big bloated fatty either, even on whatever I was on at
>>this time, 70 a day I think (not my highest nor lowest regular dosage
>>either, but I stayed at 70s for a little while, before dropping to 40 for
>>a couple years).
>>And V is finally growing her hair back. Yaaa! Or, YIPPIE, to quote a
>>friend. (I literally cried when she cut it all off. I was surprised how
>>much it hurt when she woke me from a nap one day a couple years ago to
>>tell me, “Hi honey, I cut off all my beautiful long red hair that you love
>>so much…” or words to this effect anyway. Now I AM getting waaaay off
>>topic, so I bid you all good day.)
>>
>>
>>
>>Asbestos at CBGBs, April, 1998 (Me on guitar, DJ Ness on bass)
>>
>>—–
>>”If God dropped acid, would he see people?” ~Steven Wright
>>
>>Peace, love and lotsof respect.
>>Preston Peet
>>ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
>>Editor Underground- the Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations,
>>Astonishing Archaeology and Hidden History
>>Editor Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs
>>Editor http://www.drugwar.com
>>Columnist HighTimes mag/.com
>>Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
>>Columnist New York Waste
>>Etc.
>>
>>
>>/]=———————————————————————=[\
>> [%] Ibogaine List Commands:
>>http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html
>>[%]
>>
>>\]=———————————————————————=[/
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>/]=———————————————————————=[\
>[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html
>[%]
>
>\]=———————————————————————=[/
>

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html
[%]

\]=———————————————————————=[/

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. Make PC-to-Phone Calls to the US (and 30+ countries) for 2¢/min or less.

From: “Alan Hehe” <a.h.veil68@hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Go kick your Cow
Date: April 5, 2006 at 6:31:32 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

It is better to be thought of as o fool than to open your Mouth(or Gate) 
and Remove All Doubt.
Oh, I heartily agree, Billy Boy–and feel the exact same way about you. Oh, yeah, and Nick, yeah he’s a real class act. But don’t worry, because you won’t be hearing from me anymore (YOU either, NICK) ’cause I’ve decided that, except for Preston, Kirsty, Callie, Anne, Randy, Matt, and alot of other people, this list is just full of people who talk the talk (of bullshit) but can’t walk the walk…oh, jeeze, I just realized that the people I like are just about everone except you and Nick! But I’m still gonna remove myself from this list, since it has practically nothing to do with ibogaine, and a whole lot to do with people who, IMO, are heartless rednecks or just confused bullshitters, both of which want to force people into doing or not doing what they believe. Besides that, I have a life that’s getting very busy right now…I’m moving in with a herd of cattle!!! To the rest of you, good luck. To Nick, or Crooked Eye, and Bill, well–fuck you! I’m outta here, as much as that’s gonnna break your hearts…well, Bill doesn’t have much of one, and who knows about Nick, since after all his complaining about people not listening and just          reacting, he couldn’t come up with a letter explaining what he does believe–other than everyone is emotionally fucked up–and oh, that’s BIG NEWS! I never knew that! And that he’s got the answer, though he doesn’t know what it is!  Kirsty, you were right. And I don’t care how much meat you folks eat–in fact, chow down on as much artery clogging meat as you can get your hands on..PLEASE!

From:  “Billy J” <billjohnson6@sympatico.ca>
Reply-To:  ibogaine@mindvox.com
To:  ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject:  RE: [Ibogaine] Go kick your Cow
Date:  Wed, 05 Apr 2006 18:07:10 -0400
>
>And as the old Red Neck saying Goes—
>
>Allan Baybe,
>It is better to be thought of as o fool than to open your Mouth(or
>Gate)
>and Remove All Doubt.
>
>And You How Totally Removed The Doubt.
>Nick has Class and Wisdon,
>You Have what you Call a high I.Q.
>But A Short attention Span. I heard that Riddlelyn Works.
>
>Billy Boy Your Little redneck.
>
>—-Original Message Follows—-
>From: “Alan Hehe” <a.h.veil68@hotmail.com>
>Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
>To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
>Subject: [Ibogaine]  Nick
>Date: Wed, 05 Apr 2006 13:47:40 -0400
>MIME-Version: 1.0
>Received: from tomts11-srv.bellnexxia.net ([209.226.175.55]) by
>bay0-pamc1-f12.bay0.hotmail.com with Microsoft
>SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Wed, 5 Apr 2006 10:47:58 -0700
>Received: from toip6.bellnexxia.net ([209.226.175.174])          by
>tomts11-srv.bellnexxia.net          (InterMail vM.5.01.06.13
>201-253-122-130-113-20050324) with ESMTP          id
><20060405175013.FTXP6620.tomts11-srv.bellnexxia.net@toip6.bellnexxia.net>
>          for <billjohnson6@sympatico.ca>; Wed, 5 Apr 2006 13:50:13
>-0400
>Received: from tanelorn.mindvox.com (HELO mail.mindvox.com)
>([64.124.179.118])  by toip6.bellnexxia.net with ESMTP; 05 Apr 2006
>13:47:50 -0400
>Received: (qmail 31302 invoked by uid 513); 5 Apr 2006 13:47:49
>-0400
>Received: (qmail 31296 invoked by uid 514); 5 Apr 2006 13:47:49
>-0400
>X-Message-Info: moY6YVwXQ473QIVaGTy0vd6BRtNAOwbFE6Q8KKsI2ns=
>Mailing-List: contact ibogaine-help@mindvox.com; run by ezmlm
>Precedence: bulk
>X-No-Archive: yes
>List-Post: <mailto:ibogaine@mindvox.com>
>List-Help: <mailto:ibogaine-help@mindvox.com>
>List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:ibogaine-unsubscribe@mindvox.com>
>List-Subscribe: <mailto:ibogaine-subscribe@mindvox.com>
>Delivered-To: mailing list ibogaine@mindvox.com
>X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.3 required=4.0
>X-Antivirus-MYDOMAIN-Mail-From: a.h.veil68@hotmail.com via
>tanelorn.mindvox.com
>X-Antivirus-MYDOMAIN: 1.25-st-qms
>(Clear:RC:0(65.54.224.24):SA:0(-2.3/4.0):. Processed in 5.319846
>secs Process 31270)
>Return-Path:
>ibogaine-return-23365-billjohnson6=sympatico.ca@mindvox.com
>X-OriginalArrivalTime: 05 Apr 2006 17:47:58.0777 (UTC)
>FILETIME=[13AB2A90:01C658D9]
>
>  Nick–
>
>   Well, just as I expected, you can’t explain any of your beliefs
>or why you believe them, and you have made me regret saying I was
>sorry for being hard on it. I think YOU are the one with some
>serious emotional and mental problems, Nick…at least IMO. Saying
>you don’t feel like a “mindy discussion is just bullshit, a cop out,
>as is your statement about detachment. Just because it doesn’t work
>for you doesn’t mean it doesn’t work for anyone…But I guess you
>must be wiser than The Buddha, or Lao-tse too. I didn’t ask you to
>try to explain the nature of reality or the universe, Nick.
>    You are always complaining about people not listening and just
>reacting, and then when I politely ask you to explain your beliefs,
>like your one about encounter therapy, you don’t have shit to say,
>except to denounce other ideas as bullshit. I really don’t think you
>know what you think…I believe, IMO, that you are a very confused
>person. Well–let’s leave it at that. You had your chance, an actual
>request, to state what you think, and you just avoided it by
>denouncing other things…It’s easy to say someone or something is
>bullshit–it’s much harder to say positive things about what YOU
>think and believe. You’re just hopeless to me Nick, so please stop
>writing to me…I know you’ll want to respond to this, and I will
>read that, but whether you stop or not, I’m simply going to ignore
>your posts…at least until you have something real to say.
>
>Alan.
>  Save time by starting a search from any Web page with the MSN
>Search Toolbar-FREE!
>
>
>
>
>/]=———————————————————————=[\
>  [%] Ibogaine List Commands:
>http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
>
>\]=———————————————————————=[/
>
>
>
>
>
>/]=———————————————————————=[\
>[%] Ibogaine List Commands:
>http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
>
>\]=———————————————————————=[/
>
>

Get turn-by-turn driving directions you can really use – Windows Live Local is here! /]=———————————————————————=[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%] \]=———————————————————————=[/

From: “Billy J” <billjohnson6@sympatico.ca>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] What is a cbgb’s gig
Date: April 5, 2006 at 6:28:34 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I must be new,
What is BTW and cbgb,
a group? chemical?
Curious, I Think
Or aas some here may say just not intelligent (a_ Bayby)

Bill

—-Original Message Follows—-
From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] (OT) old cbgb’s gig
Date: Wed, 5 Apr 2006 17:13:09 -0400
MIME-Version: 1.0
Received: from tomts48-srv.bellnexxia.net ([209.226.175.192]) by bay0-pamc1-f9.bay0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Wed, 5 Apr 2006 14:15:21 -0700
Received: from toip3.bellnexxia.net ([209.226.175.86])          by tomts48-srv.bellnexxia.net          (InterMail vM.5.01.06.13 201-253-122-130-113-20050324) with ESMTP          id <20060405211520.UFHM29645.tomts48-srv.bellnexxia.net@toip3.bellnexxia.net>          for <billjohnson6@sympatico.ca>; Wed, 5 Apr 2006 17:15:20 -0400
Received: from tanelorn.mindvox.com (HELO mail.mindvox.com) ([64.124.179.118])  by toip3.bellnexxia.net with ESMTP; 05 Apr 2006 17:15:14 -0400
Received: (qmail 7845 invoked by uid 513); 5 Apr 2006 17:15:12 -0400
Received: (qmail 7838 invoked by uid 514); 5 Apr 2006 17:15:12 -0400
X-Message-Info: 6sSXyD95QpVhow9GF2Xm1Q2OkqLiuKAem0H7Edb/Qx4=
Mailing-List: contact ibogaine-help@mindvox.com; run by ezmlm
Precedence: bulk
X-No-Archive: yes
List-Post: <mailto:ibogaine@mindvox.com>
List-Help: <mailto:ibogaine-help@mindvox.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:ibogaine-unsubscribe@mindvox.com>
List-Subscribe: <mailto:ibogaine-subscribe@mindvox.com>
Delivered-To: mailing list ibogaine@mindvox.com
X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.5 required=4.0
X-Antivirus-MYDOMAIN-Mail-From: ptpeet@nyc.rr.com via tanelorn.mindvox.com
X-Antivirus-MYDOMAIN: 1.25-st-qms (Clear:RC:0(24.29.109.6):SA:0(-2.5/4.0):. Processed in 3.604546 secs Process 7794)
References: <001601c658a8$3738d7e0$e8266c42@Prestonsoffice> <14332.162.129.236.22.1144268651.squirrel@64.124.179.118>
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180
X-Virus-Scanned: Symantec AntiVirus Scan Engine
Return-Path: ibogaine-return-23378-billjohnson6=sympatico.ca@mindvox.com
X-OriginalArrivalTime: 05 Apr 2006 21:15:21.0608 (UTC) FILETIME=[0C2C8080:01C658F6]

So far as I know, the battle continues.
The landlord is actually a homeless shelter/outreach program, and CBGBs is apparently kinda bad about wanting to pay the rent. Or something along these lines (please don’t hold me to this, I could be utterly mistaken in my rememory of the particulars). It’d be a shame to see the place close, even though I don’t very often find myself inside CBGBs. I live close by, but not nearly as close as those at 9Bleeker.

—–
“If God dropped acid, would he see people?”  ~Steven Wright

Peace, love and lotsof respect.
Preston Peet
ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor Underground- the Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations, Astonishing Archaeology and Hidden History
Editor Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Columnist HighTimes mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —– From: <jon@mindvox.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Wednesday, April 05, 2006 4:24 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] (OT) old cbgb’s gig

neat =)

btw, how do you know how cbgb’s is doing with their lease or whatever? i
read an article sometime last year that said the landlord was pushing the
rent way up or something and that their future looked kinda shaky.

Hi all,
I realize I’ve been posting lots of photos lately. Here’re are three more
(I’ve attached them too Callie), from a show V and I did with our old band
at CBGB’s about 8 years ago, back in one of my mohawk phases. This was
taken during my methadone days as well. (So is this on or off topic?)
Funny how I’m not a big bloated fatty either, even on whatever I was on at
this time, 70 a day I think (not my highest nor lowest regular dosage
either, but I stayed at 70s for a little while, before dropping to 40 for
a couple years).
And V is finally growing her hair back. Yaaa! Or, YIPPIE, to quote a
friend. (I literally cried when she cut it all off. I was surprised how
much it hurt when she woke me from a nap one day a couple years ago to
tell me, “Hi honey, I cut off all my beautiful long red hair that you love
so much…” or words to this effect anyway. Now I AM getting waaaay off
topic, so I bid you all good day.)

Asbestos at CBGBs, April, 1998 (Me on guitar, DJ Ness on bass)

—–
“If God dropped acid, would he see people?”  ~Steven Wright

Peace, love and lotsof respect.
Preston Peet
ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor Underground- the Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations,
Astonishing Archaeology and Hidden History
Editor Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Columnist HighTimes mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html
[%]

\]=———————————————————————=[/

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]

\]=———————————————————————=[/

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: “Billy J” <billjohnson6@sympatico.ca>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Oxygen Diet,
Date: April 5, 2006 at 6:19:52 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Has free radicals, I am told.
So Maybe add some smoke, and a can of Cocacola.
Bill

—-Original Message Follows—-
From: Kirk <captkirk@clear.net.nz>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] OT! Eating cattle or food
Date: Thu, 06 Apr 2006 08:06:16 +1200
MIME-Version: 1.0
Received: from tomts21-srv.bellnexxia.net ([209.226.175.183]) by bay0-pamc1-f8.bay0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Wed, 5 Apr 2006 13:07:42 -0700
Received: from toip6.bellnexxia.net ([209.226.175.174])          by tomts21-srv.bellnexxia.net          (InterMail vM.5.01.06.13 201-253-122-130-113-20050324) with ESMTP          id <20060405200741.JTUY14030.tomts21-srv.bellnexxia.net@toip6.bellnexxia.net>          for <billjohnson6@sympatico.ca>; Wed, 5 Apr 2006 16:07:41 -0400
Received: from tanelorn.mindvox.com (HELO mail.mindvox.com) ([64.124.179.118])  by toip6.bellnexxia.net with ESMTP; 05 Apr 2006 16:07:33 -0400
Received: (qmail 11553 invoked by uid 513); 5 Apr 2006 16:07:22 -0400
Received: (qmail 11540 invoked by uid 514); 5 Apr 2006 16:07:22 -0400
X-Message-Info: moY6YVwXQ46AD8D56TV/MO6yMmlauS9LXCYLGQpPccI=
Mailing-List: contact ibogaine-help@mindvox.com; run by ezmlm
Precedence: bulk
X-No-Archive: yes
List-Post: <mailto:ibogaine@mindvox.com>
List-Help: <mailto:ibogaine-help@mindvox.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:ibogaine-unsubscribe@mindvox.com>
List-Subscribe: <mailto:ibogaine-subscribe@mindvox.com>
Delivered-To: mailing list ibogaine@mindvox.com
X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.5 required=4.0
X-Antivirus-MYDOMAIN-Mail-From: captkirk@clear.net.nz via tanelorn.mindvox.com
X-Antivirus-MYDOMAIN: 1.25-st-qms (Clear:RC:0(203.97.37.27):SA:0(-2.5/4.0):. Processed in 10.067161 secs Process 11493)
X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.6353
Thread-index: AcZY3kIBcUJvQ86qT/uUprlsb6bNkQADgBqA
Return-Path: ibogaine-return-23372-billjohnson6=sympatico.ca@mindvox.com
X-OriginalArrivalTime: 05 Apr 2006 20:07:42.0505 (UTC) FILETIME=[98C28990:01C658EC]

Ohhh noooo, that’s it I’m going on a Oxygen only diet!!!!
Does anyone have any recipes for air???

—–Original Message—–
From: jon@mindvox.com [mailto:jon@mindvox.com]
Sent: Thursday, 6 April 2006 6:25 a.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] OT! Eating cattle or food

potatoes have eyes too =P

i remember this punk song about how silly it is that vegetarians, for
example, don’t eat clams… because clams have essentially the same kind
of nervous system as broccoli and cauliflower…

the line between plant and animal is not an entirely clear one.. and the
decision to eat plants but not animals seems to me a pretty arbitrary one.
plants are living, breathing, and to some degree, thinking creatures as
well. but they get no love from PETA…

i guess my basic point is.. eat whatever you’re comfortable with. but
realise that whatever you eat, ANYTHING you eat, inflicts suffering on
some creature.

such is the nature of life.

ahaha… speaking of PETA, i saw the best bumper sticker a couple weeks
ago….eheh… it said:

“PETA – People Eating Tasty Animals”

=)

oh, and one more thing… as for the whole pet vs. food argument… i know
for a fact that if my cat ever got the chance, he would totally eat me. so
i don’t wanna hear it.. =P

> for me eating meat in a society where it’s unnecessary merely promotes the
> fear/bloodthirsty addiction so prevalent in the Western world. I can see
> eating meat in a society where there are no alternatives, but where I live
> it’s easy to not eat meat, and I’m glad.
> I still do dairy and eggs, but can’t eat anything that might lick it’s
> fellow beings, or nuzzle them, or communicate in any way, shape or form
> with
> one another, even chickens (which I’ve been told are ok to eat because
> “they’re stupid.” If that were the only criteria for being ok to eat, I’d
> be
> a cannibal). Again, this is only my own viewpoint, but there seems to be
> something unenlightened, to me, how some folk can have “pets” but call
> cattle mere “food,” making no connection to the living, breathing,
> thinking
> creatures sharing the planet with us.
>
> Butt, and it’s a great big butt, I can’t really fault anyone for their
> eating habits beyond stating how I personally feel, particularly about
> factory farming, inhumane treatment of our “food” and the wonton slaughter
> of living creatures when it isn’t necessary for our survival, only to feed
> our addiction to blood and flesh these days (Of course one couuld take
> this
> to extreme and tell me plants are also living, but I limit my empathy and
> eating ban to beings with eys I guess).
>     That’s because I’m…pro-choice at heart.
>
> —–
> “If God dropped acid, would he see people?”  ~Steven Wright
>
> Peace, love and lotsof respect.
> Preston Peet
> ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
> Editor Underground- the Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations,
> Astonishing Archaeology and Hidden History
> Editor Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs
> Editor http://www.drugwar.com
> Columnist HighTimes mag/.com
> Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
> Columnist New York Waste
> Etc.
>
> —– Original Message —–
> From: Crooked Eye
> To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
> Sent: Tuesday, April 04, 2006 3:53 AM
> Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Whats a Republican?
>
>
> Cow’s are tasty…  If we aren’t supposed to eat animals, then why are
> they
> made out of meat?  😀  I fail how to see eating cows equates to racism…
> I
> eat a lot of cows, but I have a mixed family…  If it makes you feel any
> better we eat a lot of chickens, too..  I love turkey, the tryptophan
> makes
> me sleepy…
>
> Alan Hehe <a.h.veil68@hotmail.com> wrote:
>    Don’t call me Baby…well, you can…since you’re not close enough for
> me
> to do anything about it! Plus, that’s a freedom, too…Just like my
> ability
> to talk about pro-choice. As for your information, no, I don’t think the
> way
> the abortion system is set up–but I absolutely believe in having the
> right…And no, you don’t have 9 months to decide whether to have the rug
> rat or not–there is a cut-off, a limit to when abortions can be
> performed.
>      And so you think, because cows aren’t pets, or aren’t ‘cute’, then
> it’s
> okay to torture them? And to cut the balls of bulls off without any
> anesthetic? To make chickens live in a cage so small they can barely turn
> around? And George Bush–wanting to save lives! LOL! That’s the biggest
> joke
> I’ve ever heard! But it figures; you’re not special..alot of the people in
> this country are brain-washed by the constant disinformation they are
> fed….Why do you think there are a hundred commercials warning of the
> dangers of marijuana, one of the least harmful drugs known to man, but yet
> maybe one out of those hundred about the truly dangerous drugs, like H or
> Coke?
>        And you don’t have to be a hindu to have compassion for animals
> other
> than cats and dogs, you dumb-ass red-neck! In some places they eat
> dogs…would that be okay if they ate your dog? You know, I’m totally
> wasting my time talking to you, I can already tell that you are way
> undereducated, extremely prejudiced. Cows are just food. Are blacks just
> niggers, too? God, I can’t stand fuckin’ red-necks like you, especially
> the
> ones that actually think they’re smart. Once you start doing away with
> freedoms, it’s all down-hill. Who’s going to decide what’s right and
> wrong?
> You?! I would happily put a hollow-point 45 shell into my head if that
> possibility existed..of course G.W.B. is quite the redneck himself, which
> is
> why you probably like him. First of all, HE’s not fighting for anything. I
> have respect for the soldiers; they don’t decide the mission, they just do
> what they’re told. And how many babies do you think die while we were
> waging
> a war we were totally lied to about? Or is that okay? You think the babies
> over there even know what a terrorist is? This world is already
> over-populated..if people like you ran things, the world would run out of
> resources within a decade! The oh so precious children! Everyone starts
> out
> as a child..some people, like you, remain one, in their minds, their whole
> life. But those sweet children often grow up to be killers and rapists,
> and
> often for no apparent reason!  Strong belief does only one thing: close
> your
> mind. Boy, that ibogaine is gonna have fun with you!!!!! Cows are just
> food!
> Well, we’re just food, too…if a grizzly decides you look good! God, what
> egotism!  You claim to be a Christian (I do not) but you must have misssed
> the part about not judging lest you be judged yourself…And I bet ibo’s
> gonna drive that one home with a psychoactive sledgehammer! You’ve got
> your
> response, but I really no longer wish to talk with you. I’ve spent too
> much
> time arguing with all the fascists on this list, instead of hanging out
> with
> the cool, in the know ,people: by that meaning knowing that the whole
> Govt.
> is totally corrupt, actually controlled by a few wealthy and extremely
> powerful people, and they constantly just feed us disinformation, while
> manipulating the world through economic control, etc, and alot of other
> things you wouldn’t understand. BYE< NOW, Billy BOY. Go get a burger!
>
>
>
>
>
> From:  “Billy J” <billjohnson6@sympatico.ca>
> Reply-To:  ibogaine@mindvox.com
> To:  ibogaine@mindvox.com
> Subject:  RE: [Ibogaine] Whats a Republican?
> Date:  Tue, 04 Apr 2006 02:19:25 -0400
>>Hear this peace and take it to your Heart FRIEND.
>>1st if we go back to Killing kids for the sins of their fathers
>>(Child of a Rapist) Do you think that is more civilized then Raising
>>Cattle for food,(Cattle are food “not Pets”) although you may be
>>from India or somewhere that they worship your cows and even there
>>fecal matter I hear! Now if your are at that junkger(Place) then I
>>will have to say -well Al, Bless you, but when was the last time you
>>had your precious cow go to war for YOUR FREEDOMS that I am sure you
>>are enjoying- Yes?
>>   Allan , do you really love cows (the 4 legged ones that is) or
>>are you in your 2nd or 3rd reincarnation and you where once a cow
>>and you have come into this wierd mooing stage and you just could
>>not figure it out.
>>  Ok That is sarcasm – Sorry< I’ll get serious.
>>Oh Ya Your aborting a fetus-, and yes I know that in the USof A
>>being the most civilized Nation that has usually voted anti-
>>Christian ( just in case somebody didn’t let Everybody do what FEELs
>>GOOD)
>>Ya you can Have sex with anybody you want and then if a girl gets
>>pregnant, or do you call it fetus something, oh well  so shes
>>pregnant you have 9 months to decide whether or not you what the
>>little BLOB Because your fetus can be kicking up a storm and as long
>>as you can keep its stupid( oh it,s brain isn’t functioning yet
>>,right) well as long as you can keep its head inside the grown up
>>fetus ( that would be the female, The pregnant one, knocked up one ,
>>dumb one what ever you would call someone like that ( Maybe MOM)
>>well just reach in and CRUSH ITS SCULL and or STICK A SYRINGE INTO
>>THe Back of it HEAD JUST UNTIL ITS STOPS PUTTINGN UP A FIGHT, AND
>>they do fight Allan, just go and ask your abortion doctor.– PARTIAL
>>BIRTH ABORTION– VERY NICE–
>>  oH YA AND YOU KNOW WHAT ALLY BABY THAT STUPID WAR MOGER THAT YOU
>>HAVE AS A PRESIDENT WOULD LIKE NOTHING MORE THAN TO SAVE PEOPLE BUT
>>ALL YOU PEOPLE THAT GOD GAVE YOU FREE CHOICE HAVE DECIDED TO VOTE
>>FOR THE REAL KILLERS-
>>   Have you any clue how many of your fetuses are done away with
>>each year in the USA alone,, Allan Baby– way way more in 1 year
>>than have been killed in ALL the World wars— How many do you think
>>are rape and how many are just another form of birth control,, Your
>>Planned Parenthood is a multi-Billion dollar industry that fights
>>for you to have the freedom to get rid of your Babies- But They do
>>not do it for free– They are rich.One more thing if we can justify
>>killing because you THINK they don’t feel pain- Why not line up all
>>us addicts right after a good whack and while we are feeling no pain
>>BANG-
>>Save a lot of tax dollars- The Meth Clinics would be Pissed though.
>>
>>Love Ya!
>>
>>Just Don’t say it is OK To Kill My Children- Or Yours
>>
>>B
>>
>>—-Original Message Follows—-
>>From: “Alan Hehe” <a.h.veil68@hotmail.com>
>>Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
>>To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
>>Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] RE: [Pornography,psychology,Choice,force,) 2
>>cents
>>Date: Tue, 04 Apr 2006 01:25:21 -0400
>>MIME-Version: 1.0
>>Received: from tomts30-srv.bellnexxia.net ([209.226.175.104]) by
>>bay0-pamc1-f3.bay0.hotmail.com with Microsoft
>>SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Mon, 3 Apr 2006 22:27:22 -0700
>>Received: from toip4.bellnexxia.net ([209.226.175.87])          by
>>tomts30-srv.bellnexxia.net          (InterMail vM.5.01.06.13
>>201-253-122-130-113-20050324) with ESMTP          id
>><20060404052721.IXFI18550.tomts30-srv.bellnexxia.net@toip4.bellnexxia.net>
>>          for <billjohnson6@sympatico.ca>; Tue, 4 Apr 2006 01:27:21
>>-0400
>>Received: from tanelorn.mindvox.com (HELO mail.mindvox.com)
>>([64.124.179.118])  by toip4.bellnexxia.net with ESMTP; 04 Apr 2006
>>01:27:16 -0400
>>Received: (qmail 1073 invoked by uid 513); 4 Apr 2006 01:27:15 -0400
>>Received: (qmail 1067 invoked by uid 514); 4 Apr 2006 01:27:15 -0400
>>X-Message-Info: moY6YVwXQ46hfM+PXD+r03SFMVOY3E1daJYU/Sm1Nkw=
>>Mailing-List: contact ibogaine-help@mindvox.com; run by ezmlm
>>Precedence: bulk
>>X-No-Archive: yes
>>List-Post: <mailto:ibogaine@mindvox.com>
>>List-Help: <mailto:ibogaine-help@mindvox.com>
>>List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:ibogaine-unsubscribe@mindvox.com>
>>List-Subscribe: <mailto:ibogaine-subscribe@mindvox.com>
>>Delivered-To: mailing list ibogaine@mindvox.com
>>X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.1 required=4.0
>>X-Antivirus-MYDOMAIN-Mail-From: a.h.veil68@hotmail.com via
>>tanelorn.mindvox.com
>>X-Antivirus-MYDOMAIN: 1.25-st-qms
>>(Clear:RC:0(65.54.224.26):SA:0(-2.1/4.0):. Processed in 8.08646 secs
>>Process 1055)
>>Return-Path:
>>ibogaine-return-23280-billjohnson6=sympatico.ca@mindvox.com
>>X-OriginalArrivalTime: 04 Apr 2006 05:27:22.0868 (UTC)
>>FILETIME=[7363CB40:01C657A8]
>>
>>
>>
>>   I gotta take a piece of this one. Okay, Mr. Anti-choice, let me
>>ask you this: do you eat meat? If not, then good for you. If so,
>>have you ever though about the actual, truly painful, totally
>>inhumane treatment we put animals through? And usually don’t think
>>twice about it…It’s people like George Bush who make me wish
>>sometimes that God would hurl an asteroid at us! It’s “God forbid
>>one human foetus (who does not feel a thing if the abortion is done
>>in a timely manner, according to the latest research, because their
>>nervous system isn’t nearly fully developed) should perish, no
>>matter if it was caused by a rape or is probably going to be born
>>into alot of suffering–but while I’m on my high horse, cut me a
>>piece o that cow off and cook it up! It’s sheer egotism that we
>>believe that humans are so damned
>>important, but it’s okay if we torture animals, ruin the planet, and
>>make other people adhere to our beliefs!!! We’re not that important!
>>And if you believe in a God and the soul, then you know that–if the
>>foetus even has a soul yet, which I don’t believe it does..I believe
>>the soul enters with the first breath, and leaves with the
>>last–that baby is just going back into the arms of God! There is no
>>death! And since they don’t experience pain, all it becomes is
>>something for people like you to feel self righteous about!
>>Personally, I think everyone should smoke pot, and would benefit
>>from it (except for a few cases), but how would you like it if I
>>MADE you smoke it? That is, if you don’t, and don’t like it. Or
>>let’s say you eat meat, but I think it’s just as evil to do that as
>>to allow abortions, so I outlawed meat–would that be okay with you?
>>And the cliff analogy is just stupid–not
>>the same thing at all. But yes, I think if a person is truly
>>miserable, and wants to die, I would try to talk them out of it, but
>>I would never stop them by force. That’s called LACK OF FREEDOM. And
>>if we didn’t make mistakes, how would we ever learn? To be told
>>something is wrong is one thing..you can tell a person, fire will
>>burn you..but until they get burned, they will not truly understand,
>>and that’s what life is all about–learning. No, I don’t like to see
>>foetus’ abortions–I think prevention is the answer….But
>>sometimes, I believe it is ‘the best choice’. If everyone like you
>>had their way, there really would be NO ROOM AT ALL left!!! We’re
>>already sooo over-populated! It’s like I heard some character say in
>>a movie recently..”everybody’s kids are so special…it makes you
>>wonder where all the normal adults come from”. Even God believes in
>>freedom of choice! That’s why he gave
>>us FREE WILL. You’re a Republican, aren’t you? And you probably
>>think that war-mongering asshole of a President is the best-thing
>>since sliced bread, eh? It’s okay to kill, as long as it’s not a
>>precious child…even though that child may grow up to be The Son of
>>Sam!  well…”take me by the ham, no good, no evil, no give a
>>damn!”  And the Govt. is lying to you! About just about everything.
>>Peace, love, and freedom. Life is too mysterious to take it so
>>serious!
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>From:  “Billy J” <billjohnson6@sympatico.ca>
>>Reply-To:  ibogaine@mindvox.com
>>To:  ibogaine@mindvox.com
>>Subject:  [Ibogaine] RE: [Pornography,psychology,Choice,force,) 2
>>cents
>>Date:  Sun, 02 Apr 2006 21:45:39 -0400
>> >Well It sounds like this place is really mixing it up so I would
>> >like to add a little REALITY TO YOU PRO CHOICERS, I am sure glad I
>> >was not an abortion’ althought I have had my moments.
>> >Yes My Mom was a young Mom and if she had a choice I think that I
>> >would have no Grandkids, or be babbleing on here.
>> >     I too have an attitude, It is about the only thing in this
>> >world that I really have control over.
>> >Tiger– How well did you do with making ALL your own Choices,
>> >Instead of doing
>>what your were told to do? Not meant to be a shot
>> >at you personally, but I am with the Right or Wrong crowd- No such
>> >thing as grey.
>> >   I do know that some people may have grown up believing that
>>wrong
>> >was right and right was wrong, but I Think that I pretty much knew
>> >when I was stepping out of line and doing wrong.
>> >It is (as most believe) My God , no not God, but My worldly given
>> >Right- to do wrong- It’s my life and if I want to screw it up then
>> >stay out of my way. And you know what I had a lot of sooo called
>> >friends that did just that WATCHED, AS i WAS Killing myself and
>> >ruining a lot of lifes.
>> >But O O O never no no no neverdare step on somebodys toes because
>> >you know what they have a choice, Just like those poor little
>>Crack
>> >%$^&%$ Women that degrade themselves( and me
>>myself) due to
>> >everybody. But Never No No Never dare tell somebody or force
>>someone
>> >to get some help that they may never ever make it to on their own,
>> >due to something called “Pride” “Shame” “Guilt”
>> >Whatever holds them back. They may end up DEAD and it would be
>>their
>> >own fault, because you know how STRONG us druggies are, and if
>>that
>> >person dies because he had a choice to get help and refused or
>>just
>> >couldn’t make it on his/her own and needed YOU (of course they
>> >didn’t tell you that).
>> >I am sorry but I BELIEVE that if you Love Someone or even care a
>> >little, and you see them walking off a cliff and YOU have an
>> >opportunity to stop them, and you don’t- Can you truelly say it
>>was
>> >their own fault?
>> >Pornography- I never met too many Normal people that would find it
>> >neccesary to take their
>>cloths off for the public to see. Totally
>> >wrong and if you had your own kids you might not think it too cool
>> >having your buddy beating off while checking out your little girl.
>> >Not nice eh Billy but P–sy T-ts are not meant for anyone except
>>who
>> >they belong to and their mate.
>> >
>> >Bye For Now, That stuff is about the biggest trigger going for any
>> >downfall
>> >
>> >Bill
>> >—-Original Message Follows—-
>> >From: “Nick Sandberg” <nick227@tiscali.co.uk>
>> >Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
>> >To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
>> >Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Opiates
>> >Date: Sun, 2 Apr 2006 10:24:07 +0100
>> >MIME-Version: 1.0
>> >Received: from tomts21-srv.bellnexxia.net ([209.226.175.183]) by
>> >bay0-pamc1-f11.bay0.hotmail.com with Microsoft
>> >SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Sun, 2 Apr 2006 05:38:59
>>-0700
>> >Received: from toip5.bellnexxia.net ([209.226.175.88])          by
>> >tomts21-srv.bellnexxia.net          (InterMail vM.5.01.06.13
>> >201-253-122-130-113-20050324) with ESMTP          id
>>
><20060402123858.HZPV14030.tomts21-srv.bellnexxia.net@toip5.bellnexxia.net>
>> >          for <billjohnson6@sympatico.ca>; Sun, 2 Apr 2006
>>08:38:58
>> >-0400
>> >Received: from tanelorn.mindvox.com (HELO mail.mindvox.com)
>> >([64.124.179.118])  by toip5.bellnexxia.net with ESMTP; 02 Apr
>>2006
>> >08:38:58 -0400
>> >Received: (qmail 16967 invoked by uid 513); 2 Apr 2006 08:38:55
>> >-0400
>> >Received: (qmail 16961 invoked by uid
>>514); 2 Apr 2006 08:38:55
>> >-0400
>> >X-Message-Info: moY6YVwXQ44WAJnUvaOEtK2hXKGagKAsshDbZwj7pSc=
>> >Mailing-List: contact ibogaine-help@mindvox.com; run by ezmlm
>> >Precedence: bulk
>> >X-No-Archive: yes
>> >List-Post: <mailto:ibogaine@mindvox.com>
>> >List-Help: <mailto:ibogaine-help@mindvox.com>
>> >List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:ibogaine-unsubscribe@mindvox.com>
>> >List-Subscribe: <mailto:ibogaine-subscribe@mindvox.com>
>> >Delivered-To: mailing list ibogaine@mindvox.com
>> >X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.3 required=4.0
>> >X-Antivirus-MYDOMAIN-Mail-From: nick227@tiscali.co.uk via
>> >tanelorn.mindvox.com
>> >X-Antivirus-MYDOMAIN: 1.25-st-qms
>> >(Clear:RC:0(212.74.114.37):SA:0(-2.3/4.0):. Processed in 2.781926
>> >secs Process 16953)
>> >X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true
>> >X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result:
>>AQAAAJ0kL0SDE4UI
>> >X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.6604 (9.0.2911.0)
>> >Return-Path:
>> >ibogaine-return-23233-billjohnson6=sympatico.ca@mindvox.com
>> >X-OriginalArrivalTime: 02 Apr 2006 12:38:59.0373 (UTC)
>> >FILETIME=[6A155DD0:01C65652]
>> >
>> >
>> >   —–Original Message—–
>> >   From: Tiger Lisa [mailto:tigerlisa@gmail.com]
>> >   Sent: 01 April 2006 13:44
>> >   To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
>> >   Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Opiates
>> >
>> >
>> >   Dear Nick,
>> >   Here’ the part I don’t understand.
>> >
>> >   You wrote,
>> >   Personally, my position is…I think rising awareness is GOOD.
>>I
>> >would
>> >love to see more people in groups, going through their stuff,
>> >becoming more
>> >aware of their
>>personal interior dynamic, and moving forward in
>> >life. But,
>> >sadly, I’m not in a position to compel people to do this.
>> >
>> >   Why would you ever want to COMPEL anyone to do ANYTHING? Do you
>> >really
>> >believe that would be useful, effective, helpful? Do you think
>> >people
>> >actually benefit from, and grow from, being FORCED to do anything?
>> >
>> >   That is a parent-child model of interaction (and not a
>> >particularly
>> >skillful one, IMO), and it’s going to reinforce childlike,
>> >rebellious and
>> >victim behavior (NOT self-awareness!) in the one so compelled, as
>> >well as
>> >reinforcing bullying behavior and disprespectful and righteous
>> >attitudes
>> >(NOT increased compassion or awareness) in the one doing the
>> >compelling. A
>> >”lose-lose” interaction–no one
>>wins!
>> >
>> >   Myself, I believe CHOICE is the name of the game. With choice
>> >comes
>> >responsibility, self-responsibility and a loss of the victim
>> >consciousness
>> >that drives continued reactive and unconscious behavior.
>> >
>> >   So in a nutshell: Saying something (like awarenss) is GOOD is
>>one
>> >thing,
>> >but it’s a far cry from that to say,”And I’d love to FORCE you all
>> >to be
>> >more aware! too bad I can’t!” I think that is the essence of
>>what
>> >*I* am
>> >having a problem with. Yes, awareness is good. I agree. Yes, I’d
>> >love to
>> >live in a more aware society, umm hmm. Then I read the next
>>sentence
>> >and I’m
>> >brought up short.
>> >
>> >   We all need love, acceptance, compassion. Compassion is one of
>> >the most
>> >healing things
>>going! Power and control, on the other hand, just get
>> >people’s backs up, thrust them into dysfunctional modes of
>>thinking
>> >and
>> >perpetuate a lack of awareness all around.
>> >
>> >   Just my two cents,
>> >   Tiger
>> >
>> >   PS I bet if you took a shot of heroin, you would experience
>> >bliss! (not
>> >that I’m suggesting you do) I believe it is just how human beings
>> >are wired.
>> >We’ve all got the same neurotransmitters, more or less.
>> >
>> >   Hi Tiger,
>> >
>> >   Well, I seem to recall, from the days when I used to go to
>> >conferences and
>> >stuff, that studies have shown that only a small percentage of
>> >school kids
>> >who used heroin developed a habit. (Howard Parker in Sheffield, or
>> >something
>> >like that, about 1000 individuals
>>studied). This is not quite the
>> >same as
>> >what you’re saying, I appreciate, but it shows that the drug of
>> >itself is
>> >not necessarily addicting. I don’t know if anyone knows what makes
>>a
>> >difference but I’d be willing to bet that, psychologically, it
>> >relates
>> >strongly to “ego orientation” vs “underlying levels of feeling.”
>>If
>> >you’ve
>> >developed a self-image that requires you to repress more feelings
>> >than the
>> >endogenous opiates in your body can do, then taking heroin is
>>going
>> >to make
>> >you feel pretty good. I would personally say that this is very
>> >likely one
>> >psychological mechanism behind addiction. This would explain why
>>so
>> >many
>> >addicts do come from relatively high trauma backgrounds. For, as
>> >kids, we
>> >learn that to “get things” and to “be popular” we need to
>>be able to
>> >keep
>> >our feelings a bit under control, not just likely to collapse from
>> >overfeeling at any time.
>> >
>> >   With bliss, (or anxiety for that matter), these are
>>experiential
>> >things
>> >and no neuroscientist can explain them beyond pointing a little at
>> >things
>> >that seem to be involved. What is clear is that the states are
>> >relative to
>> >one another. If you’re basically a happy person bliss is
>>inevitably
>> >less
>> >attractive than if you’re an anxious person.
>> >
>> >   About awareness, yes, I would love to force everyone to be more
>> >aware!
>> >And, inevitably, it doesn’t really work like that! But that’s my
>> >position
>> >anyway. What to do? Yes, compassion is needed, sometimes a lot of
>> >it. Also,
>> >all the power and control at times. I’m not so
>>busy with how I think
>> >society
>> >should be, or trying to like Understand the world, I just put my
>> >position
>> >out really. About choice, well, it seems like a great thing, for
>> >sure, but
>> >to me it’s a little the same as trying to push compassion at the
>> >expense of
>> >power. In philosophy or spirituality or whatever, some people
>> >believe that
>> >free will exists, others that the universe is entirely
>> >deterministic. Who
>> >the fuck knows? Both are cool viewpoints, and I personally
>>wouldn’t
>> >just
>> >want to just trapped in just one of them.
>> >
>> >   Is it cool to allow someone you care about to carry on fucking
>> >their life
>> >up because you believe so much in their free will? Not for me! I
>> >like to
>> >have the guts to take a position. And, to be honest, it’s a little
>>
>> >bit what
>> >I miss in this list, where half the time everyone seems to be
>> >talking it up
>> >all nice but actually underneath there are shed-loads of feelings.
>>I
>> >don’t
>> >know if this says anything significant about ibogaine, or about
>>the
>> >people
>> >who are attracted to administering it, or what. But I notice it.
>> >
>> >   Nick
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>
>/]=———————————————————————=[\
>> >[%] Ibogaine List Commands:
>> >http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
>> >
>>
>\]=———————————————————————=[/
>> >
>> >
>>
>>  With MSN Spaces email straight to your blog. Upload jokes, photos
>>and more. It’s free!
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>/]=———————————————————————=[
\
>>  [%] Ibogaine List Commands:
>>http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
>>
>>\]=———————————————————————=[
/
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>/]=———————————————————————=[
\
>>[%] Ibogaine List Commands:
>>http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
>>
>>\]=———————————————————————=[
/
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
> Be one of the first to try Windows Live Mail
>
/]=———————————————————————=[\
> [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html
> [%]
>
\]=———————————————————————=[/
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. PC-to-Phone calls for ridiculously low rates.
>
>
>
>
/]=———————————————————————=[\
>  [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html
> [%]
>
\]=———————————————————————=[/
>
>
>

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html
[%]

\]=———————————————————————=[/

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: Crooked Eye <iboganaut420@yahoo.com>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] made out of meat
Date: April 5, 2006 at 6:22:23 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

People are tasty, too, don’t you just love eatin pussy!?!?

Kirk <captkirk@clear.net.nz> wrote:
AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
Alan, dearest…….. learn to laugh.
That was NOT meant to be taken seriously…. Come on man!!!! Find your funny bone and give it a tickle.!!!!!
It’s all good.
From: Alan Hehe [mailto:a.h.veil68@hotmail.com]
Sent: Thursday, 6 April 2006 10:12 a.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] made out of meat

Hey—From: Crooked Eye
> To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
> Sent: Tuesday, April 04, 2006 3:53 AM
> Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Whats a Republican?
>
>
> Cow’s are tasty…  If we aren’t supposed to eat animals, then why are
> they
> made out of meat?

Well, Crooked Eye, we’re made out of meat, too, and some tribes like to eat us..they call human flesh “long pork”…So you must think cannibalism’s okay too, right?

See if you’ve won, play MSN Search and Win
/]=———————————————————————=[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%] \]=———————————————————————=[/

Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. Make PC-to-Phone Calls to the US (and 30+ countries) for 2¢/min or less.

From: Kirk <captkirk@clear.net.nz>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] made out of meat
Date: April 5, 2006 at 6:15:28 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
Alan, dearest…….. learn to laugh.
That was NOT meant to be taken seriously…. Come on man!!!! Find your funny bone and give it a tickle.!!!!!
It’s all good.
From: Alan Hehe [mailto:a.h.veil68@hotmail.com] 
Sent: Thursday, 6 April 2006 10:12 a.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] made out of meat

Hey—From: Crooked Eye
> To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
> Sent: Tuesday, April 04, 2006 3:53 AM
> Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Whats a Republican?
>
>
> Cow’s are tasty…  If we aren’t supposed to eat animals, then why are
> they
> made out of meat?

Well, Crooked Eye, we’re made out of meat, too, and some tribes like to eat us..they call human flesh “long pork”…So you must think cannibalism’s okay too, right?
See if you’ve won, play MSN Search and Win
/]=———————————————————————=[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%] \]=———————————————————————=[/

From: “Alan Hehe” <a.h.veil68@hotmail.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] made out of meat
Date: April 5, 2006 at 6:12:22 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hey—From: Crooked Eye
> To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
> Sent: Tuesday, April 04, 2006 3:53 AM
> Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Whats a Republican?
>
>
> Cow’s are tasty…  If we aren’t supposed to eat animals, then why are
> they
> made out of meat?

Well, Crooked Eye, we’re made out of meat, too, and some tribes like to eat us..they call human flesh “long pork”…So you must think cannibalism’s okay too, right?

See if you’ve won, play MSN Search and Win /]=———————————————————————=[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%] \]=———————————————————————=[/

From: “Billy J” <billjohnson6@sympatico.ca>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Go kick your Cow
Date: April 5, 2006 at 6:07:10 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

And as the old Red Neck saying Goes—

Allan Baybe,
It is better to be thought of as o fool than to open your Mouth(or Gate)
and Remove All Doubt.

And You How Totally Removed The Doubt.
Nick has Class and Wisdon,
You Have what you Call a high I.Q.
But A Short attention Span. I heard that Riddlelyn Works.

Billy Boy Your Little redneck.

—-Original Message Follows—-
From: “Alan Hehe” <a.h.veil68@hotmail.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [Ibogaine]  Nick
Date: Wed, 05 Apr 2006 13:47:40 -0400
MIME-Version: 1.0
Received: from tomts11-srv.bellnexxia.net ([209.226.175.55]) by bay0-pamc1-f12.bay0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Wed, 5 Apr 2006 10:47:58 -0700
Received: from toip6.bellnexxia.net ([209.226.175.174])          by tomts11-srv.bellnexxia.net          (InterMail vM.5.01.06.13 201-253-122-130-113-20050324) with ESMTP          id <20060405175013.FTXP6620.tomts11-srv.bellnexxia.net@toip6.bellnexxia.net>          for <billjohnson6@sympatico.ca>; Wed, 5 Apr 2006 13:50:13 -0400
Received: from tanelorn.mindvox.com (HELO mail.mindvox.com) ([64.124.179.118])  by toip6.bellnexxia.net with ESMTP; 05 Apr 2006 13:47:50 -0400
Received: (qmail 31302 invoked by uid 513); 5 Apr 2006 13:47:49 -0400
Received: (qmail 31296 invoked by uid 514); 5 Apr 2006 13:47:49 -0400
X-Message-Info: moY6YVwXQ473QIVaGTy0vd6BRtNAOwbFE6Q8KKsI2ns=
Mailing-List: contact ibogaine-help@mindvox.com; run by ezmlm
Precedence: bulk
X-No-Archive: yes
List-Post: <mailto:ibogaine@mindvox.com>
List-Help: <mailto:ibogaine-help@mindvox.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:ibogaine-unsubscribe@mindvox.com>
List-Subscribe: <mailto:ibogaine-subscribe@mindvox.com>
Delivered-To: mailing list ibogaine@mindvox.com
X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.3 required=4.0
X-Antivirus-MYDOMAIN-Mail-From: a.h.veil68@hotmail.com via tanelorn.mindvox.com
X-Antivirus-MYDOMAIN: 1.25-st-qms (Clear:RC:0(65.54.224.24):SA:0(-2.3/4.0):. Processed in 5.319846 secs Process 31270)
Return-Path: ibogaine-return-23365-billjohnson6=sympatico.ca@mindvox.com
X-OriginalArrivalTime: 05 Apr 2006 17:47:58.0777 (UTC) FILETIME=[13AB2A90:01C658D9]

Nick–

Well, just as I expected, you can’t explain any of your beliefs or why you believe them, and you have made me regret saying I was sorry for being hard on it. I think YOU are the one with some serious emotional and mental problems, Nick…at least IMO. Saying you don’t feel like a “mindy discussion is just bullshit, a cop out, as is your statement about detachment. Just because it doesn’t work for you doesn’t mean it doesn’t work for anyone…But I guess you must be wiser than The Buddha, or Lao-tse too. I didn’t ask you to try to explain the nature of reality or the universe, Nick.
You are always complaining about people not listening and just reacting, and then when I politely ask you to explain your beliefs, like your one about encounter therapy, you don’t have shit to say, except to denounce other ideas as bullshit. I really don’t think you know what you think…I believe, IMO, that you are a very confused person. Well–let’s leave it at that. You had your chance, an actual request, to state what you think, and you just avoided it by denouncing other things…It’s easy to say someone or something is bullshit–it’s much harder to say positive things about what YOU think and believe. You’re just hopeless to me Nick, so please stop writing to me…I know you’ll want to respond to this, and I will read that, but whether you stop or not, I’m simply going to ignore your posts…at least until you have something real to say.
Alan.
Save time by starting a search from any Web page with the MSN Search Toolbar-FREE!

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: “Mason Shipley” <maseshipley@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Pot calling the Kettle Black?
Date: April 5, 2006 at 5:23:31 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I usually click on some of the names here and read messages depending
on who wrote them, Patrick, Howard, Jon, Preston too, when he attaches
photos of something other than himself (you’re beautiful, but not my
type). I’m interested in both ibogaine and have opened my mind about
some of the alternate approaches to the steps here.

But the pile of crap that’s landed in my mailbox in the last few days
is becoming ridiculous. Would some of you please for god’s sake, take
some of this drivel to the pseudo intellectual lounge, where you can
talk about god, abortion, whatever it is you want to discuss that has
nothing to do with either addiction or ibogaine and for fuck’s sake,
please shut up already. You’re all geniuses, then why are you still on
drugs and trying to get off them without having any success?

Addicts trying to get clean I can deal with, pseudes babbling at one
another I don’t need to hear. Gmail never seems to have any problems,
I get every message always, lucky me.

-Mase

On 4/2/06, Alan Hehe <a.h.veil68@hotmail.com> wrote:

Hey…uh, Biscuit Boy,

What’s the matter? Do you NOT like my debate with Nick, or do you just
not like the fact that Ann paid me a compliment? Do you agree with Nick’s
idea that only emotionally repressed individuals receive any sort of high
from opiates? If you’ve got something to say, why not come out and say it?
Have you never done opiates? Or any drugs? What gives you the right to judge
Ann? Personally I don’t care if her comment was influened by a whole gram of
Mexican brown! Better a nice compliment from someone high, than a nasty one
from someone sober! Now, if I’ve misconstrued your intent, I apologize, but
I would appreciate a logical explanation rather than a low-blow insinuation.

________________________________

From:  biscuitboy714@aol.com
Reply-To:  ibogaine@mindvox.com
To:  ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject:  Re: [Ibogaine] Opiate effects
Date:  Sun, 02 Apr 2006 11:05:09 -0400
Yea Ann, tell us how much heroin you shot last night. He He I
couldn’t help it. I love you Mamma           Randy

—–Original Message—–
From: Alan Hehe <a.h.veil68@hotmail.com>
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Sat, 01 Apr 2006 11:15:03 -0500
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Opiate effects

Hey Ann,

Thank you for the compliment…Somebody’s got to try to counter
his crazy ideas with some sense. Feel free to write me anytime..I
really enjoy talking to people on this list and hearing their
stories…Oh, don’t tell anyone, but I studied semantics and debate
in high school! Just kidding…about the hush hush, as anyone will
be able to read this. Oh, heck–LOL! I’m 37, and High school is but
a distant, mainly unplesant experience…except when I would catch
my English teacher making grammatical or syntactical mistakes,
before they moved me into an A.P. college-level class…And no, I’m
not conceited, either..but I do enjoy debate! Everyone has certain
qualities at which they excel, and others at which they are
deficient. I make up for my skill in English by being a retard in
math! Plus, I couldn’t be that smart or I wouldn’t be here, looking
for a way out of the hell-hole I dug for myself….and despite
having a really shitty childhood, I take complete responsibility for
my current position in
life……………………………….Wishing you the
best in
all…….Alan.

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] (OT) old cbgb’s gig
Date: April 5, 2006 at 5:13:09 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

So far as I know, the battle continues.
The landlord is actually a homeless shelter/outreach program, and CBGBs is apparently kinda bad about wanting to pay the rent. Or something along these lines (please don’t hold me to this, I could be utterly mistaken in my rememory of the particulars). It’d be a shame to see the place close, even though I don’t very often find myself inside CBGBs. I live close by, but not nearly as close as those at 9Bleeker.

—–
“If God dropped acid, would he see people?”  ~Steven Wright

Peace, love and lotsof respect.
Preston Peet
ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor Underground- the Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations, Astonishing Archaeology and Hidden History
Editor Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Columnist HighTimes mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —– From: <jon@mindvox.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Wednesday, April 05, 2006 4:24 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] (OT) old cbgb’s gig

neat =)

btw, how do you know how cbgb’s is doing with their lease or whatever? i
read an article sometime last year that said the landlord was pushing the
rent way up or something and that their future looked kinda shaky.

Hi all,
I realize I’ve been posting lots of photos lately. Here’re are three more
(I’ve attached them too Callie), from a show V and I did with our old band
at CBGB’s about 8 years ago, back in one of my mohawk phases. This was
taken during my methadone days as well. (So is this on or off topic?)
Funny how I’m not a big bloated fatty either, even on whatever I was on at
this time, 70 a day I think (not my highest nor lowest regular dosage
either, but I stayed at 70s for a little while, before dropping to 40 for
a couple years).
And V is finally growing her hair back. Yaaa! Or, YIPPIE, to quote a
friend. (I literally cried when she cut it all off. I was surprised how
much it hurt when she woke me from a nap one day a couple years ago to
tell me, “Hi honey, I cut off all my beautiful long red hair that you love
so much…” or words to this effect anyway. Now I AM getting waaaay off
topic, so I bid you all good day.)

Asbestos at CBGBs, April, 1998 (Me on guitar, DJ Ness on bass)

—–
“If God dropped acid, would he see people?”  ~Steven Wright

Peace, love and lotsof respect.
Preston Peet
ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor Underground- the Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations,
Astonishing Archaeology and Hidden History
Editor Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Columnist HighTimes mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html
[%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: “Jeff G” <jeffgallop@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Iboga and Ibogaine
Date: April 5, 2006 at 5:08:26 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Thanks Howard…you are the man!
freak freely!
Jeff

On 4/5/06, HSLotsof@aol.com <HSLotsof@aol.com> wrote:
“Pharmacodynamics and Therapeutic Applications of Iboga and Ibogaine – Now with a linked table of contents. This historically important review article by Robert Goutarel, Otto Gollnhofer and Roger Sillans was written by an earlier generation of ibogaine researchers in support of Howard Lotsof’s discovery and research into the antiaddictive qualities of ibogaine.”

For those of you who want a comprehensive review article covering all aspects of ibogaine history from Africa to its clinical use in psychotherapy and chemical dependence see http://www.ibogaine.desk.nl/bwiti1.html

Enjoy.

Howard

From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] OT! Eating cattle or food
Date: April 5, 2006 at 5:06:21 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I don’t eat clams or much of any type of sea food for a lot longer than I’ve been vegitarian btw. That’s because, despite having grown up in a beachtown, my first job(s) being at Walt’s Fish Market in Sarasota on US 41 (or maybe that’s part of the reason come to think of it), I hate sea food, fish, etc…other than for stone crab and lobster. Those were kinda tough to give up actually.
I hadn’t thought about potatos’ eyes, either. Thanks a lot Jon, now what am I gonna do?
And to be frank, I don’t care about those “fine lines” between plants and animals in the slightest. I know what moves me and what I feel empathy for, just as I can see with my own eyes what creatures move about, walk, swim, lick, cuddle, and which don’t. This isn’t belittling plants in the slightest, but it’s a bit tougher for me to worry about the plants being eaten than it is for animals and How They Are Raised/Penned/Slaughtered/PeeledAlive/etc. Cest la vie.

—–
“If God dropped acid, would he see people?”  ~Steven Wright

Peace, love and lotsof respect.
Preston Peet
ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor Underground- the Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations, Astonishing Archaeology and Hidden History
Editor Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Columnist HighTimes mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —– From: <jon@mindvox.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Wednesday, April 05, 2006 2:24 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] OT! Eating cattle or food

potatoes have eyes too =P

i remember this punk song about how silly it is that vegetarians, for
example, don’t eat clams… because clams have essentially the same kind
of nervous system as broccoli and cauliflower…

the line between plant and animal is not an entirely clear one.. and the
decision to eat plants but not animals seems to me a pretty arbitrary one.
plants are living, breathing, and to some degree, thinking creatures as
well. but they get no love from PETA…

i guess my basic point is.. eat whatever you’re comfortable with. but
realise that whatever you eat, ANYTHING you eat, inflicts suffering on
some creature.

such is the nature of life.

ahaha… speaking of PETA, i saw the best bumper sticker a couple weeks
ago….eheh… it said:

“PETA – People Eating Tasty Animals”

=)

oh, and one more thing… as for the whole pet vs. food argument… i know
for a fact that if my cat ever got the chance, he would totally eat me. so
i don’t wanna hear it.. =P

for me eating meat in a society where it’s unnecessary merely promotes the
fear/bloodthirsty addiction so prevalent in the Western world. I can see
eating meat in a society where there are no alternatives, but where I live
it’s easy to not eat meat, and I’m glad.
I still do dairy and eggs, but can’t eat anything that might lick it’s
fellow beings, or nuzzle them, or communicate in any way, shape or form
with
one another, even chickens (which I’ve been told are ok to eat because
“they’re stupid.” If that were the only criteria for being ok to eat, I’d
be
a cannibal). Again, this is only my own viewpoint, but there seems to be
something unenlightened, to me, how some folk can have “pets” but call
cattle mere “food,” making no connection to the living, breathing,
thinking
creatures sharing the planet with us.

Butt, and it’s a great big butt, I can’t really fault anyone for their
eating habits beyond stating how I personally feel, particularly about
factory farming, inhumane treatment of our “food” and the wonton slaughter
of living creatures when it isn’t necessary for our survival, only to feed
our addiction to blood and flesh these days (Of course one couuld take
this
to extreme and tell me plants are also living, but I limit my empathy and
eating ban to beings with eys I guess).
That’s because I’m…pro-choice at heart.

—–
“If God dropped acid, would he see people?”  ~Steven Wright

Peace, love and lotsof respect.
Preston Peet
ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor Underground- the Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations,
Astonishing Archaeology and Hidden History
Editor Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Columnist HighTimes mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —–
From: Crooked Eye
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Tuesday, April 04, 2006 3:53 AM
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Whats a Republican?

Cow’s are tasty…  If we aren’t supposed to eat animals, then why are
they
made out of meat?  😀  I fail how to see eating cows equates to racism…
I
eat a lot of cows, but I have a mixed family…  If it makes you feel any
better we eat a lot of chickens, too..  I love turkey, the tryptophan
makes
me sleepy…

Alan Hehe <a.h.veil68@hotmail.com> wrote:
Don’t call me Baby…well, you can…since you’re not close enough for
me
to do anything about it! Plus, that’s a freedom, too…Just like my
ability
to talk about pro-choice. As for your information, no, I don’t think the
way
the abortion system is set up–but I absolutely believe in having the
right…And no, you don’t have 9 months to decide whether to have the rug
rat or not–there is a cut-off, a limit to when abortions can be
performed.
And so you think, because cows aren’t pets, or aren’t ‘cute’, then
it’s
okay to torture them? And to cut the balls of bulls off without any
anesthetic? To make chickens live in a cage so small they can barely turn
around? And George Bush–wanting to save lives! LOL! That’s the biggest
joke
I’ve ever heard! But it figures; you’re not special..alot of the people in
this country are brain-washed by the constant disinformation they are
fed….Why do you think there are a hundred commercials warning of the
dangers of marijuana, one of the least harmful drugs known to man, but yet
maybe one out of those hundred about the truly dangerous drugs, like H or
Coke?
And you don’t have to be a hindu to have compassion for animals
other
than cats and dogs, you dumb-ass red-neck! In some places they eat
dogs…would that be okay if they ate your dog? You know, I’m totally
wasting my time talking to you, I can already tell that you are way
undereducated, extremely prejudiced. Cows are just food. Are blacks just
niggers, too? God, I can’t stand fuckin’ red-necks like you, especially
the
ones that actually think they’re smart. Once you start doing away with
freedoms, it’s all down-hill. Who’s going to decide what’s right and
wrong?
You?! I would happily put a hollow-point 45 shell into my head if that
possibility existed..of course G.W.B. is quite the redneck himself, which
is
why you probably like him. First of all, HE’s not fighting for anything. I
have respect for the soldiers; they don’t decide the mission, they just do
what they’re told. And how many babies do you think die while we were
waging
a war we were totally lied to about? Or is that okay? You think the babies
over there even know what a terrorist is? This world is already
over-populated..if people like you ran things, the world would run out of
resources within a decade! The oh so precious children! Everyone starts
out
as a child..some people, like you, remain one, in their minds, their whole
life. But those sweet children often grow up to be killers and rapists,
and
often for no apparent reason!  Strong belief does only one thing: close
your
mind. Boy, that ibogaine is gonna have fun with you!!!!! Cows are just
food!
Well, we’re just food, too…if a grizzly decides you look good! God, what
egotism!  You claim to be a Christian (I do not) but you must have misssed
the part about not judging lest you be judged yourself…And I bet ibo’s
gonna drive that one home with a psychoactive sledgehammer! You’ve got
your
response, but I really no longer wish to talk with you. I’ve spent too
much
time arguing with all the fascists on this list, instead of hanging out
with
the cool, in the know ,people: by that meaning knowing that the whole
Govt.
is totally corrupt, actually controlled by a few wealthy and extremely
powerful people, and they constantly just feed us disinformation, while
manipulating the world through economic control, etc, and alot of other
things you wouldn’t understand. BYE< NOW, Billy BOY. Go get a burger!

From:  “Billy J” <billjohnson6@sympatico.ca>
Reply-To:  ibogaine@mindvox.com
To:  ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject:  RE: [Ibogaine] Whats a Republican?
Date:  Tue, 04 Apr 2006 02:19:25 -0400
Hear this peace and take it to your Heart FRIEND.
1st if we go back to Killing kids for the sins of their fathers
(Child of a Rapist) Do you think that is more civilized then Raising
Cattle for food,(Cattle are food “not Pets”) although you may be
from India or somewhere that they worship your cows and even there
fecal matter I hear! Now if your are at that junkger(Place) then I
will have to say -well Al, Bless you, but when was the last time you
had your precious cow go to war for YOUR FREEDOMS that I am sure you
are enjoying- Yes?
Allan , do you really love cows (the 4 legged ones that is) or
are you in your 2nd or 3rd reincarnation and you where once a cow
and you have come into this wierd mooing stage and you just could
not figure it out.
Ok That is sarcasm – Sorry< I’ll get serious.
Oh Ya Your aborting a fetus-, and yes I know that in the USof A
being the most civilized Nation that has usually voted anti-
Christian ( just in case somebody didn’t let Everybody do what FEELs
GOOD)
Ya you can Have sex with anybody you want and then if a girl gets
pregnant, or do you call it fetus something, oh well  so shes
pregnant you have 9 months to decide whether or not you what the
little BLOB Because your fetus can be kicking up a storm and as long
as you can keep its stupid( oh it,s brain isn’t functioning yet
,right) well as long as you can keep its head inside the grown up
fetus ( that would be the female, The pregnant one, knocked up one ,
dumb one what ever you would call someone like that ( Maybe MOM)
well just reach in and CRUSH ITS SCULL and or STICK A SYRINGE INTO
THe Back of it HEAD JUST UNTIL ITS STOPS PUTTINGN UP A FIGHT, AND
they do fight Allan, just go and ask your abortion doctor.– PARTIAL
BIRTH ABORTION– VERY NICE–
oH YA AND YOU KNOW WHAT ALLY BABY THAT STUPID WAR MOGER THAT YOU
HAVE AS A PRESIDENT WOULD LIKE NOTHING MORE THAN TO SAVE PEOPLE BUT
ALL YOU PEOPLE THAT GOD GAVE YOU FREE CHOICE HAVE DECIDED TO VOTE
FOR THE REAL KILLERS-
Have you any clue how many of your fetuses are done away with
each year in the USA alone,, Allan Baby– way way more in 1 year
than have been killed in ALL the World wars— How many do you think
are rape and how many are just another form of birth control,, Your
Planned Parenthood is a multi-Billion dollar industry that fights
for you to have the freedom to get rid of your Babies- But They do
not do it for free– They are rich.One more thing if we can justify
killing because you THINK they don’t feel pain- Why not line up all
us addicts right after a good whack and while we are feeling no pain
BANG-
Save a lot of tax dollars- The Meth Clinics would be Pissed though.

Love Ya!

Just Don’t say it is OK To Kill My Children- Or Yours

B

—-Original Message Follows—-
From: “Alan Hehe” <a.h.veil68@hotmail.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] RE: [Pornography,psychology,Choice,force,) 2
cents
Date: Tue, 04 Apr 2006 01:25:21 -0400
MIME-Version: 1.0
Received: from tomts30-srv.bellnexxia.net ([209.226.175.104]) by
bay0-pamc1-f3.bay0.hotmail.com with Microsoft
SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Mon, 3 Apr 2006 22:27:22 -0700
Received: from toip4.bellnexxia.net ([209.226.175.87])          by
tomts30-srv.bellnexxia.net          (InterMail vM.5.01.06.13
201-253-122-130-113-20050324) with ESMTP          id
<20060404052721.IXFI18550.tomts30-srv.bellnexxia.net@toip4.bellnexxia.net>
for <billjohnson6@sympatico.ca>; Tue, 4 Apr 2006 01:27:21
-0400
Received: from tanelorn.mindvox.com (HELO mail.mindvox.com)
([64.124.179.118])  by toip4.bellnexxia.net with ESMTP; 04 Apr 2006
01:27:16 -0400
Received: (qmail 1073 invoked by uid 513); 4 Apr 2006 01:27:15 -0400
Received: (qmail 1067 invoked by uid 514); 4 Apr 2006 01:27:15 -0400
X-Message-Info: moY6YVwXQ46hfM+PXD+r03SFMVOY3E1daJYU/Sm1Nkw=
Mailing-List: contact ibogaine-help@mindvox.com; run by ezmlm
Precedence: bulk
X-No-Archive: yes
List-Post: <mailto:ibogaine@mindvox.com>
List-Help: <mailto:ibogaine-help@mindvox.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:ibogaine-unsubscribe@mindvox.com>
List-Subscribe: <mailto:ibogaine-subscribe@mindvox.com>
Delivered-To: mailing list ibogaine@mindvox.com
X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.1 required=4.0
X-Antivirus-MYDOMAIN-Mail-From: a.h.veil68@hotmail.com via
tanelorn.mindvox.com
X-Antivirus-MYDOMAIN: 1.25-st-qms
(Clear:RC:0(65.54.224.26):SA:0(-2.1/4.0):. Processed in 8.08646 secs
Process 1055)
Return-Path:
ibogaine-return-23280-billjohnson6=sympatico.ca@mindvox.com
X-OriginalArrivalTime: 04 Apr 2006 05:27:22.0868 (UTC)
FILETIME=[7363CB40:01C657A8]

I gotta take a piece of this one. Okay, Mr. Anti-choice, let me
ask you this: do you eat meat? If not, then good for you. If so,
have you ever though about the actual, truly painful, totally
inhumane treatment we put animals through? And usually don’t think
twice about it…It’s people like George Bush who make me wish
sometimes that God would hurl an asteroid at us! It’s “God forbid
one human foetus (who does not feel a thing if the abortion is done
in a timely manner, according to the latest research, because their
nervous system isn’t nearly fully developed) should perish, no
matter if it was caused by a rape or is probably going to be born
into alot of suffering–but while I’m on my high horse, cut me a
piece o that cow off and cook it up! It’s sheer egotism that we
believe that humans are so damned
important, but it’s okay if we torture animals, ruin the planet, and
make other people adhere to our beliefs!!! We’re not that important!
And if you believe in a God and the soul, then you know that–if the
foetus even has a soul yet, which I don’t believe it does..I believe
the soul enters with the first breath, and leaves with the
last–that baby is just going back into the arms of God! There is no
death! And since they don’t experience pain, all it becomes is
something for people like you to feel self righteous about!
Personally, I think everyone should smoke pot, and would benefit
from it (except for a few cases), but how would you like it if I
MADE you smoke it? That is, if you don’t, and don’t like it. Or
let’s say you eat meat, but I think it’s just as evil to do that as
to allow abortions, so I outlawed meat–would that be okay with you?
And the cliff analogy is just stupid–not
the same thing at all. But yes, I think if a person is truly
miserable, and wants to die, I would try to talk them out of it, but
I would never stop them by force. That’s called LACK OF FREEDOM. And
if we didn’t make mistakes, how would we ever learn? To be told
something is wrong is one thing..you can tell a person, fire will
burn you..but until they get burned, they will not truly understand,
and that’s what life is all about–learning. No, I don’t like to see
foetus’ abortions–I think prevention is the answer….But
sometimes, I believe it is ‘the best choice’. If everyone like you
had their way, there really would be NO ROOM AT ALL left!!! We’re
already sooo over-populated! It’s like I heard some character say in
a movie recently..”everybody’s kids are so special…it makes you
wonder where all the normal adults come from”. Even God believes in
freedom of choice! That’s why he gave
us FREE WILL. You’re a Republican, aren’t you? And you probably
think that war-mongering asshole of a President is the best-thing
since sliced bread, eh? It’s okay to kill, as long as it’s not a
precious child…even though that child may grow up to be The Son of
Sam!  well…”take me by the ham, no good, no evil, no give a
damn!”  And the Govt. is lying to you! About just about everything.
Peace, love, and freedom. Life is too mysterious to take it so
serious!

From:  “Billy J” <billjohnson6@sympatico.ca>
Reply-To:  ibogaine@mindvox.com
To:  ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject:  [Ibogaine] RE: [Pornography,psychology,Choice,force,) 2
cents
Date:  Sun, 02 Apr 2006 21:45:39 -0400
>Well It sounds like this place is really mixing it up so I would
>like to add a little REALITY TO YOU PRO CHOICERS, I am sure glad I
>was not an abortion’ althought I have had my moments.
>Yes My Mom was a young Mom and if she had a choice I think that I
>would have no Grandkids, or be babbleing on here.
>     I too have an attitude, It is about the only thing in this
>world that I really have control over.
>Tiger– How well did you do with making ALL your own Choices,
>Instead of doing
what your were told to do? Not meant to be a shot
>at you personally, but I am with the Right or Wrong crowd- No such
>thing as grey.
>   I do know that some people may have grown up believing that
wrong
>was right and right was wrong, but I Think that I pretty much knew
>when I was stepping out of line and doing wrong.
>It is (as most believe) My God , no not God, but My worldly given
>Right- to do wrong- It’s my life and if I want to screw it up then
>stay out of my way. And you know what I had a lot of sooo called
>friends that did just that WATCHED, AS i WAS Killing myself and
>ruining a lot of lifes.
>But O O O never no no no neverdare step on somebodys toes because
>you know what they have a choice, Just like those poor little
Crack
>%$^&%$ Women that degrade themselves( and me
myself) due to
>everybody. But Never No No Never dare tell somebody or force
someone
>to get some help that they may never ever make it to on their own,
>due to something called “Pride” “Shame” “Guilt”
>Whatever holds them back. They may end up DEAD and it would be
their
>own fault, because you know how STRONG us druggies are, and if
that
>person dies because he had a choice to get help and refused or
just
>couldn’t make it on his/her own and needed YOU (of course they
>didn’t tell you that).
>I am sorry but I BELIEVE that if you Love Someone or even care a
>little, and you see them walking off a cliff and YOU have an
>opportunity to stop them, and you don’t- Can you truelly say it
was
>their own fault?
>Pornography- I never met too many Normal people that would find it
>neccesary to take their
cloths off for the public to see. Totally
>wrong and if you had your own kids you might not think it too cool
>having your buddy beating off while checking out your little girl.
>Not nice eh Billy but P–sy T-ts are not meant for anyone except
who
>they belong to and their mate.
>
>Bye For Now, That stuff is about the biggest trigger going for any
>downfall
>
>Bill
>—-Original Message Follows—-
>From: “Nick Sandberg” <nick227@tiscali.co.uk>
>Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
>To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
>Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Opiates
>Date: Sun, 2 Apr 2006 10:24:07 +0100
>MIME-Version: 1.0
>Received: from tomts21-srv.bellnexxia.net ([209.226.175.183]) by
>bay0-pamc1-f11.bay0.hotmail.com with Microsoft
>SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Sun, 2 Apr 2006 05:38:59
-0700
>Received: from toip5.bellnexxia.net ([209.226.175.88])          by
>tomts21-srv.bellnexxia.net          (InterMail vM.5.01.06.13
>201-253-122-130-113-20050324) with ESMTP          id
><20060402123858.HZPV14030.tomts21-srv.bellnexxia.net@toip5.bellnexxia.net>
>          for <billjohnson6@sympatico.ca>; Sun, 2 Apr 2006
08:38:58
>-0400
>Received: from tanelorn.mindvox.com (HELO mail.mindvox.com)
>([64.124.179.118])  by toip5.bellnexxia.net with ESMTP; 02 Apr
2006
>08:38:58 -0400
>Received: (qmail 16967 invoked by uid 513); 2 Apr 2006 08:38:55
>-0400
>Received: (qmail 16961 invoked by uid
514); 2 Apr 2006 08:38:55
>-0400
>X-Message-Info: moY6YVwXQ44WAJnUvaOEtK2hXKGagKAsshDbZwj7pSc=
>Mailing-List: contact ibogaine-help@mindvox.com; run by ezmlm
>Precedence: bulk
>X-No-Archive: yes
>List-Post: <mailto:ibogaine@mindvox.com>
>List-Help: <mailto:ibogaine-help@mindvox.com>
>List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:ibogaine-unsubscribe@mindvox.com>
>List-Subscribe: <mailto:ibogaine-subscribe@mindvox.com>
>Delivered-To: mailing list ibogaine@mindvox.com
>X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.3 required=4.0
>X-Antivirus-MYDOMAIN-Mail-From: nick227@tiscali.co.uk via
>tanelorn.mindvox.com
>X-Antivirus-MYDOMAIN: 1.25-st-qms
>(Clear:RC:0(212.74.114.37):SA:0(-2.3/4.0):. Processed in 2.781926
>secs Process 16953)
>X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true
>X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result:
AQAAAJ0kL0SDE4UI
>X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.6604 (9.0.2911.0)
>Return-Path:
>ibogaine-return-23233-billjohnson6=sympatico.ca@mindvox.com
>X-OriginalArrivalTime: 02 Apr 2006 12:38:59.0373 (UTC)
>FILETIME=[6A155DD0:01C65652]
>
>
>   —–Original Message—–
>   From: Tiger Lisa [mailto:tigerlisa@gmail.com]
>   Sent: 01 April 2006 13:44
>   To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
>   Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Opiates
>
>
>   Dear Nick,
>   Here’ the part I don’t understand.
>
>   You wrote,
>   Personally, my position is…I think rising awareness is GOOD.
I
>would
>love to see more people in groups, going through their stuff,
>becoming more
>aware of their
personal interior dynamic, and moving forward in
>life. But,
>sadly, I’m not in a position to compel people to do this.
>
>   Why would you ever want to COMPEL anyone to do ANYTHING? Do you
>really
>believe that would be useful, effective, helpful? Do you think
>people
>actually benefit from, and grow from, being FORCED to do anything?
>
>   That is a parent-child model of interaction (and not a
>particularly
>skillful one, IMO), and it’s going to reinforce childlike,
>rebellious and
>victim behavior (NOT self-awareness!) in the one so compelled, as
>well as
>reinforcing bullying behavior and disprespectful and righteous
>attitudes
>(NOT increased compassion or awareness) in the one doing the
>compelling. A
>”lose-lose” interaction–no one
wins!
>
>   Myself, I believe CHOICE is the name of the game. With choice
>comes
>responsibility, self-responsibility and a loss of the victim
>consciousness
>that drives continued reactive and unconscious behavior.
>
>   So in a nutshell: Saying something (like awarenss) is GOOD is
one
>thing,
>but it’s a far cry from that to say,”And I’d love to FORCE you all
>to be
>more aware! too bad I can’t!” I think that is the essence of
what
>*I* am
>having a problem with. Yes, awareness is good. I agree. Yes, I’d
>love to
>live in a more aware society, umm hmm. Then I read the next
sentence
>and I’m
>brought up short.
>
>   We all need love, acceptance, compassion. Compassion is one of
>the most
>healing things
going! Power and control, on the other hand, just get
>people’s backs up, thrust them into dysfunctional modes of
thinking
>and
>perpetuate a lack of awareness all around.
>
>   Just my two cents,
>   Tiger
>
>   PS I bet if you took a shot of heroin, you would experience
>bliss! (not
>that I’m suggesting you do) I believe it is just how human beings
>are wired.
>We’ve all got the same neurotransmitters, more or less.
>
>   Hi Tiger,
>
>   Well, I seem to recall, from the days when I used to go to
>conferences and
>stuff, that studies have shown that only a small percentage of
>school kids
>who used heroin developed a habit. (Howard Parker in Sheffield, or
>something
>like that, about 1000 individuals
studied). This is not quite the
>same as
>what you’re saying, I appreciate, but it shows that the drug of
>itself is
>not necessarily addicting. I don’t know if anyone knows what makes
a
>difference but I’d be willing to bet that, psychologically, it
>relates
>strongly to “ego orientation” vs “underlying levels of feeling.”
If
>you’ve
>developed a self-image that requires you to repress more feelings
>than the
>endogenous opiates in your body can do, then taking heroin is
going
>to make
>you feel pretty good. I would personally say that this is very
>likely one
>psychological mechanism behind addiction. This would explain why
so
>many
>addicts do come from relatively high trauma backgrounds. For, as
>kids, we
>learn that to “get things” and to “be popular” we need to
be able to
>keep
>our feelings a bit under control, not just likely to collapse from
>overfeeling at any time.
>
>   With bliss, (or anxiety for that matter), these are
experiential
>things
>and no neuroscientist can explain them beyond pointing a little at
>things
>that seem to be involved. What is clear is that the states are
>relative to
>one another. If you’re basically a happy person bliss is
inevitably
>less
>attractive than if you’re an anxious person.
>
>   About awareness, yes, I would love to force everyone to be more
>aware!
>And, inevitably, it doesn’t really work like that! But that’s my
>position
>anyway. What to do? Yes, compassion is needed, sometimes a lot of
>it. Also,
>all the power and control at times. I’m not so
busy with how I think
>society
>should be, or trying to like Understand the world, I just put my
>position
>out really. About choice, well, it seems like a great thing, for
>sure, but
>to me it’s a little the same as trying to push compassion at the
>expense of
>power. In philosophy or spirituality or whatever, some people
>believe that
>free will exists, others that the universe is entirely
>deterministic. Who
>the fuck knows? Both are cool viewpoints, and I personally
wouldn’t
>just
>want to just trapped in just one of them.
>
>   Is it cool to allow someone you care about to carry on fucking
>their life
>up because you believe so much in their free will? Not for me! I
>like to
>have the guts to take a position. And, to be honest, it’s a little

>bit what
>I miss in this list, where half the time everyone seems to be
>talking it up
>all nice but actually underneath there are shed-loads of feelings.
I
>don’t
>know if this says anything significant about ibogaine, or about
the
>people
>who are attracted to administering it, or what. But I notice it.
>
>   Nick
>
>
>
>
>
>/]=———————————————————————=[\
>[%] Ibogaine List Commands:
>http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
>
>\]=———————————————————————=[/
>
>

With MSN Spaces email straight to your blog. Upload jokes, photos
and more. It’s free!

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands:
http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]

\]=———————————————————————=[/

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands:
http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]

\]=———————————————————————=[/

Be one of the first to try Windows Live Mail
/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html
[%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. PC-to-Phone calls for ridiculously low rates.

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html
[%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: Kirk <captkirk@clear.net.nz>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] OT! Eating cattle or food
Date: April 5, 2006 at 4:46:18 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Yehh I knew there was a name for them!! I hear they have a short life span
LOL
I’d make a hopeless vege-head…i’d get sick I’m too unorganised to eat
properly on just veges lol.
“My favourite animal is Steak”

—–Original Message—–
From: jon@mindvox.com [mailto:jon@mindvox.com]
Sent: Thursday, 6 April 2006 8:13 a.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] OT! Eating cattle or food

ehehehe.. you could always become a Jainist… =)

but really, i simply do not understand why, if eating animals is immoral
or mean or whatever, then why isn’t eating plants immoral and mean?

seems egocentric to me…

Ohhh noooo, that’s it I’m going on a Oxygen only diet!!!!
Does anyone have any recipes for air???

—–Original Message—–
From: jon@mindvox.com [mailto:jon@mindvox.com]
Sent: Thursday, 6 April 2006 6:25 a.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] OT! Eating cattle or food

potatoes have eyes too =P

i remember this punk song about how silly it is that vegetarians, for
example, don’t eat clams… because clams have essentially the same kind
of nervous system as broccoli and cauliflower…

the line between plant and animal is not an entirely clear one.. and the
decision to eat plants but not animals seems to me a pretty arbitrary one.
plants are living, breathing, and to some degree, thinking creatures as
well. but they get no love from PETA…

i guess my basic point is.. eat whatever you’re comfortable with. but
realise that whatever you eat, ANYTHING you eat, inflicts suffering on
some creature.

such is the nature of life.

ahaha… speaking of PETA, i saw the best bumper sticker a couple weeks
ago….eheh… it said:

“PETA – People Eating Tasty Animals”

=)

oh, and one more thing… as for the whole pet vs. food argument… i know
for a fact that if my cat ever got the chance, he would totally eat me. so
i don’t wanna hear it.. =P

for me eating meat in a society where it’s unnecessary merely promotes
the
fear/bloodthirsty addiction so prevalent in the Western world. I can see
eating meat in a society where there are no alternatives, but where I
live
it’s easy to not eat meat, and I’m glad.
I still do dairy and eggs, but can’t eat anything that might lick it’s
fellow beings, or nuzzle them, or communicate in any way, shape or form
with
one another, even chickens (which I’ve been told are ok to eat because
“they’re stupid.” If that were the only criteria for being ok to eat,
I’d
be
a cannibal). Again, this is only my own viewpoint, but there seems to be
something unenlightened, to me, how some folk can have “pets” but call
cattle mere “food,” making no connection to the living, breathing,
thinking
creatures sharing the planet with us.

Butt, and it’s a great big butt, I can’t really fault anyone for their
eating habits beyond stating how I personally feel, particularly about
factory farming, inhumane treatment of our “food” and the wonton
slaughter
of living creatures when it isn’t necessary for our survival, only to
feed
our addiction to blood and flesh these days (Of course one couuld take
this
to extreme and tell me plants are also living, but I limit my empathy
and
eating ban to beings with eys I guess).
That’s because I’m…pro-choice at heart.

—–
“If God dropped acid, would he see people?”  ~Steven Wright

Peace, love and lotsof respect.
Preston Peet
ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor Underground- the Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations,
Astonishing Archaeology and Hidden History
Editor Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Columnist HighTimes mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —–
From: Crooked Eye
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Tuesday, April 04, 2006 3:53 AM
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Whats a Republican?

Cow’s are tasty…  If we aren’t supposed to eat animals, then why are
they
made out of meat?  😀  I fail how to see eating cows equates to
racism…
I
eat a lot of cows, but I have a mixed family…  If it makes you feel
any
better we eat a lot of chickens, too..  I love turkey, the tryptophan
makes
me sleepy…

Alan Hehe <a.h.veil68@hotmail.com> wrote:
Don’t call me Baby…well, you can…since you’re not close enough
for
me
to do anything about it! Plus, that’s a freedom, too…Just like my
ability
to talk about pro-choice. As for your information, no, I don’t think the
way
the abortion system is set up–but I absolutely believe in having the
right…And no, you don’t have 9 months to decide whether to have the
rug
rat or not–there is a cut-off, a limit to when abortions can be
performed.
And so you think, because cows aren’t pets, or aren’t ‘cute’, then
it’s
okay to torture them? And to cut the balls of bulls off without any
anesthetic? To make chickens live in a cage so small they can barely
turn
around? And George Bush–wanting to save lives! LOL! That’s the biggest
joke
I’ve ever heard! But it figures; you’re not special..alot of the people
in
this country are brain-washed by the constant disinformation they are
fed….Why do you think there are a hundred commercials warning of the
dangers of marijuana, one of the least harmful drugs known to man, but
yet
maybe one out of those hundred about the truly dangerous drugs, like H
or
Coke?
And you don’t have to be a hindu to have compassion for animals
other
than cats and dogs, you dumb-ass red-neck! In some places they eat
dogs…would that be okay if they ate your dog? You know, I’m totally
wasting my time talking to you, I can already tell that you are way
undereducated, extremely prejudiced. Cows are just food. Are blacks just
niggers, too? God, I can’t stand fuckin’ red-necks like you, especially
the
ones that actually think they’re smart. Once you start doing away with
freedoms, it’s all down-hill. Who’s going to decide what’s right and
wrong?
You?! I would happily put a hollow-point 45 shell into my head if that
possibility existed..of course G.W.B. is quite the redneck himself,
which
is
why you probably like him. First of all, HE’s not fighting for anything.
I
have respect for the soldiers; they don’t decide the mission, they just
do
what they’re told. And how many babies do you think die while we were
waging
a war we were totally lied to about? Or is that okay? You think the
babies
over there even know what a terrorist is? This world is already
over-populated..if people like you ran things, the world would run out
of
resources within a decade! The oh so precious children! Everyone starts
out
as a child..some people, like you, remain one, in their minds, their
whole
life. But those sweet children often grow up to be killers and rapists,
and
often for no apparent reason!  Strong belief does only one thing: close
your
mind. Boy, that ibogaine is gonna have fun with you!!!!! Cows are just
food!
Well, we’re just food, too…if a grizzly decides you look good! God,
what
egotism!  You claim to be a Christian (I do not) but you must have
misssed
the part about not judging lest you be judged yourself…And I bet ibo’s
gonna drive that one home with a psychoactive sledgehammer! You’ve got
your
response, but I really no longer wish to talk with you. I’ve spent too
much
time arguing with all the fascists on this list, instead of hanging out
with
the cool, in the know ,people: by that meaning knowing that the whole
Govt.
is totally corrupt, actually controlled by a few wealthy and extremely
powerful people, and they constantly just feed us disinformation, while
manipulating the world through economic control, etc, and alot of other
things you wouldn’t understand. BYE< NOW, Billy BOY. Go get a burger!

From:  “Billy J” <billjohnson6@sympatico.ca>
Reply-To:  ibogaine@mindvox.com
To:  ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject:  RE: [Ibogaine] Whats a Republican?
Date:  Tue, 04 Apr 2006 02:19:25 -0400
Hear this peace and take it to your Heart FRIEND.
1st if we go back to Killing kids for the sins of their fathers
(Child of a Rapist) Do you think that is more civilized then Raising
Cattle for food,(Cattle are food “not Pets”) although you may be
from India or somewhere that they worship your cows and even there
fecal matter I hear! Now if your are at that junkger(Place) then I
will have to say -well Al, Bless you, but when was the last time you
had your precious cow go to war for YOUR FREEDOMS that I am sure you
are enjoying- Yes?
Allan , do you really love cows (the 4 legged ones that is) or
are you in your 2nd or 3rd reincarnation and you where once a cow
and you have come into this wierd mooing stage and you just could
not figure it out.
Ok That is sarcasm – Sorry< I’ll get serious.
Oh Ya Your aborting a fetus-, and yes I know that in the USof A
being the most civilized Nation that has usually voted anti-
Christian ( just in case somebody didn’t let Everybody do what FEELs
GOOD)
Ya you can Have sex with anybody you want and then if a girl gets
pregnant, or do you call it fetus something, oh well  so shes
pregnant you have 9 months to decide whether or not you what the
little BLOB Because your fetus can be kicking up a storm and as long
as you can keep its stupid( oh it,s brain isn’t functioning yet
,right) well as long as you can keep its head inside the grown up
fetus ( that would be the female, The pregnant one, knocked up one ,
dumb one what ever you would call someone like that ( Maybe MOM)
well just reach in and CRUSH ITS SCULL and or STICK A SYRINGE INTO
THe Back of it HEAD JUST UNTIL ITS STOPS PUTTINGN UP A FIGHT, AND
they do fight Allan, just go and ask your abortion doctor.– PARTIAL
BIRTH ABORTION– VERY NICE–
oH YA AND YOU KNOW WHAT ALLY BABY THAT STUPID WAR MOGER THAT YOU
HAVE AS A PRESIDENT WOULD LIKE NOTHING MORE THAN TO SAVE PEOPLE BUT
ALL YOU PEOPLE THAT GOD GAVE YOU FREE CHOICE HAVE DECIDED TO VOTE
FOR THE REAL KILLERS-
Have you any clue how many of your fetuses are done away with
each year in the USA alone,, Allan Baby– way way more in 1 year
than have been killed in ALL the World wars— How many do you think
are rape and how many are just another form of birth control,, Your
Planned Parenthood is a multi-Billion dollar industry that fights
for you to have the freedom to get rid of your Babies- But They do
not do it for free– They are rich.One more thing if we can justify
killing because you THINK they don’t feel pain- Why not line up all
us addicts right after a good whack and while we are feeling no pain
BANG-
Save a lot of tax dollars- The Meth Clinics would be Pissed though.

Love Ya!

Just Don’t say it is OK To Kill My Children- Or Yours

B

—-Original Message Follows—-
From: “Alan Hehe” <a.h.veil68@hotmail.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] RE: [Pornography,psychology,Choice,force,) 2
cents
Date: Tue, 04 Apr 2006 01:25:21 -0400
MIME-Version: 1.0
Received: from tomts30-srv.bellnexxia.net ([209.226.175.104]) by
bay0-pamc1-f3.bay0.hotmail.com with Microsoft
SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Mon, 3 Apr 2006 22:27:22 -0700
Received: from toip4.bellnexxia.net ([209.226.175.87])          by
tomts30-srv.bellnexxia.net          (InterMail vM.5.01.06.13
201-253-122-130-113-20050324) with ESMTP          id
<20060404052721.IXFI18550.tomts30-srv.bellnexxia.net@toip4.bellnexxia.net

for <billjohnson6@sympatico.ca>; Tue, 4 Apr 2006 01:27:21
-0400
Received: from tanelorn.mindvox.com (HELO mail.mindvox.com)
([64.124.179.118])  by toip4.bellnexxia.net with ESMTP; 04 Apr 2006
01:27:16 -0400
Received: (qmail 1073 invoked by uid 513); 4 Apr 2006 01:27:15 -0400
Received: (qmail 1067 invoked by uid 514); 4 Apr 2006 01:27:15 -0400
X-Message-Info: moY6YVwXQ46hfM+PXD+r03SFMVOY3E1daJYU/Sm1Nkw=
Mailing-List: contact ibogaine-help@mindvox.com; run by ezmlm
Precedence: bulk
X-No-Archive: yes
List-Post: <mailto:ibogaine@mindvox.com>
List-Help: <mailto:ibogaine-help@mindvox.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:ibogaine-unsubscribe@mindvox.com>
List-Subscribe: <mailto:ibogaine-subscribe@mindvox.com>
Delivered-To: mailing list ibogaine@mindvox.com
X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.1 required=4.0
X-Antivirus-MYDOMAIN-Mail-From: a.h.veil68@hotmail.com via
tanelorn.mindvox.com
X-Antivirus-MYDOMAIN: 1.25-st-qms
(Clear:RC:0(65.54.224.26):SA:0(-2.1/4.0):. Processed in 8.08646 secs
Process 1055)
Return-Path:
ibogaine-return-23280-billjohnson6=sympatico.ca@mindvox.com
X-OriginalArrivalTime: 04 Apr 2006 05:27:22.0868 (UTC)
FILETIME=[7363CB40:01C657A8]

I gotta take a piece of this one. Okay, Mr. Anti-choice, let me
ask you this: do you eat meat? If not, then good for you. If so,
have you ever though about the actual, truly painful, totally
inhumane treatment we put animals through? And usually don’t think
twice about it…It’s people like George Bush who make me wish
sometimes that God would hurl an asteroid at us! It’s “God forbid
one human foetus (who does not feel a thing if the abortion is done
in a timely manner, according to the latest research, because their
nervous system isn’t nearly fully developed) should perish, no
matter if it was caused by a rape or is probably going to be born
into alot of suffering–but while I’m on my high horse, cut me a
piece o that cow off and cook it up! It’s sheer egotism that we
believe that humans are so damned
important, but it’s okay if we torture animals, ruin the planet, and
make other people adhere to our beliefs!!! We’re not that important!
And if you believe in a God and the soul, then you know that–if the
foetus even has a soul yet, which I don’t believe it does..I believe
the soul enters with the first breath, and leaves with the
last–that baby is just going back into the arms of God! There is no
death! And since they don’t experience pain, all it becomes is
something for people like you to feel self righteous about!
Personally, I think everyone should smoke pot, and would benefit
from it (except for a few cases), but how would you like it if I
MADE you smoke it? That is, if you don’t, and don’t like it. Or
let’s say you eat meat, but I think it’s just as evil to do that as
to allow abortions, so I outlawed meat–would that be okay with you?
And the cliff analogy is just stupid–not
the same thing at all. But yes, I think if a person is truly
miserable, and wants to die, I would try to talk them out of it, but
I would never stop them by force. That’s called LACK OF FREEDOM. And
if we didn’t make mistakes, how would we ever learn? To be told
something is wrong is one thing..you can tell a person, fire will
burn you..but until they get burned, they will not truly understand,
and that’s what life is all about–learning. No, I don’t like to see
foetus’ abortions–I think prevention is the answer….But
sometimes, I believe it is ‘the best choice’. If everyone like you
had their way, there really would be NO ROOM AT ALL left!!! We’re
already sooo over-populated! It’s like I heard some character say in
a movie recently..”everybody’s kids are so special…it makes you
wonder where all the normal adults come from”. Even God believes in
freedom of choice! That’s why he gave
us FREE WILL. You’re a Republican, aren’t you? And you probably
think that war-mongering asshole of a President is the best-thing
since sliced bread, eh? It’s okay to kill, as long as it’s not a
precious child…even though that child may grow up to be The Son of
Sam!  well…”take me by the ham, no good, no evil, no give a
damn!”  And the Govt. is lying to you! About just about everything.
Peace, love, and freedom. Life is too mysterious to take it so
serious!

From:  “Billy J” <billjohnson6@sympatico.ca>
Reply-To:  ibogaine@mindvox.com
To:  ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject:  [Ibogaine] RE: [Pornography,psychology,Choice,force,) 2
cents
Date:  Sun, 02 Apr 2006 21:45:39 -0400
Well It sounds like this place is really mixing it up so I would
like to add a little REALITY TO YOU PRO CHOICERS, I am sure glad I
was not an abortion’ althought I have had my moments.
Yes My Mom was a young Mom and if she had a choice I think that I
would have no Grandkids, or be babbleing on here.
I too have an attitude, It is about the only thing in this
world that I really have control over.
Tiger– How well did you do with making ALL your own Choices,
Instead of doing
what your were told to do? Not meant to be a shot
at you personally, but I am with the Right or Wrong crowd- No such
thing as grey.
I do know that some people may have grown up believing that
wrong
was right and right was wrong, but I Think that I pretty much knew
when I was stepping out of line and doing wrong.
It is (as most believe) My God , no not God, but My worldly given
Right- to do wrong- It’s my life and if I want to screw it up then
stay out of my way. And you know what I had a lot of sooo called
friends that did just that WATCHED, AS i WAS Killing myself and
ruining a lot of lifes.
But O O O never no no no neverdare step on somebodys toes because
you know what they have a choice, Just like those poor little
Crack
%$^&%$ Women that degrade themselves( and me
myself) due to
everybody. But Never No No Never dare tell somebody or force
someone
to get some help that they may never ever make it to on their own,
due to something called “Pride” “Shame” “Guilt”
Whatever holds them back. They may end up DEAD and it would be
their
own fault, because you know how STRONG us druggies are, and if
that
person dies because he had a choice to get help and refused or
just
couldn’t make it on his/her own and needed YOU (of course they
didn’t tell you that).
I am sorry but I BELIEVE that if you Love Someone or even care a
little, and you see them walking off a cliff and YOU have an
opportunity to stop them, and you don’t- Can you truelly say it
was
their own fault?
Pornography- I never met too many Normal people that would find it
neccesary to take their
cloths off for the public to see. Totally
wrong and if you had your own kids you might not think it too cool
having your buddy beating off while checking out your little girl.
Not nice eh Billy but P–sy T-ts are not meant for anyone except
who
they belong to and their mate.

Bye For Now, That stuff is about the biggest trigger going for any
downfall

Bill
—-Original Message Follows—-
From: “Nick Sandberg” <nick227@tiscali.co.uk>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Opiates
Date: Sun, 2 Apr 2006 10:24:07 +0100
MIME-Version: 1.0
Received: from tomts21-srv.bellnexxia.net ([209.226.175.183]) by
bay0-pamc1-f11.bay0.hotmail.com with Microsoft
SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Sun, 2 Apr 2006 05:38:59
-0700
Received: from toip5.bellnexxia.net ([209.226.175.88])          by
tomts21-srv.bellnexxia.net          (InterMail vM.5.01.06.13
201-253-122-130-113-20050324) with ESMTP          id

<20060402123858.HZPV14030.tomts21-srv.bellnexxia.net@toip5.bellnexxia.net>
for <billjohnson6@sympatico.ca>; Sun, 2 Apr 2006
08:38:58
-0400
Received: from tanelorn.mindvox.com (HELO mail.mindvox.com)
([64.124.179.118])  by toip5.bellnexxia.net with ESMTP; 02 Apr
2006
08:38:58 -0400
Received: (qmail 16967 invoked by uid 513); 2 Apr 2006 08:38:55
-0400
Received: (qmail 16961 invoked by uid
514); 2 Apr 2006 08:38:55
-0400
X-Message-Info: moY6YVwXQ44WAJnUvaOEtK2hXKGagKAsshDbZwj7pSc=
Mailing-List: contact ibogaine-help@mindvox.com; run by ezmlm
Precedence: bulk
X-No-Archive: yes
List-Post: <mailto:ibogaine@mindvox.com>
List-Help: <mailto:ibogaine-help@mindvox.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:ibogaine-unsubscribe@mindvox.com>
List-Subscribe: <mailto:ibogaine-subscribe@mindvox.com>
Delivered-To: mailing list ibogaine@mindvox.com
X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.3 required=4.0
X-Antivirus-MYDOMAIN-Mail-From: nick227@tiscali.co.uk via
tanelorn.mindvox.com
X-Antivirus-MYDOMAIN: 1.25-st-qms
(Clear:RC:0(212.74.114.37):SA:0(-2.3/4.0):. Processed in 2.781926
secs Process 16953)
X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true
X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result:
AQAAAJ0kL0SDE4UI
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.6604 (9.0.2911.0)
Return-Path:
ibogaine-return-23233-billjohnson6=sympatico.ca@mindvox.com
X-OriginalArrivalTime: 02 Apr 2006 12:38:59.0373 (UTC)
FILETIME=[6A155DD0:01C65652]

—–Original Message—–
From: Tiger Lisa [mailto:tigerlisa@gmail.com]
Sent: 01 April 2006 13:44
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Opiates

Dear Nick,
Here’ the part I don’t understand.

You wrote,
Personally, my position is…I think rising awareness is GOOD.
I
would
love to see more people in groups, going through their stuff,
becoming more
aware of their
personal interior dynamic, and moving forward in
life. But,
sadly, I’m not in a position to compel people to do this.

Why would you ever want to COMPEL anyone to do ANYTHING? Do you
really
believe that would be useful, effective, helpful? Do you think
people
actually benefit from, and grow from, being FORCED to do anything?

That is a parent-child model of interaction (and not a
particularly
skillful one, IMO), and it’s going to reinforce childlike,
rebellious and
victim behavior (NOT self-awareness!) in the one so compelled, as
well as
reinforcing bullying behavior and disprespectful and righteous
attitudes
(NOT increased compassion or awareness) in the one doing the
compelling. A
“lose-lose” interaction–no one
wins!

Myself, I believe CHOICE is the name of the game. With choice
comes
responsibility, self-responsibility and a loss of the victim
consciousness
that drives continued reactive and unconscious behavior.

So in a nutshell: Saying something (like awarenss) is GOOD is
one
thing,
but it’s a far cry from that to say,”And I’d love to FORCE you all
to be
more aware! too bad I can’t!” I think that is the essence of
what
*I* am
having a problem with. Yes, awareness is good. I agree. Yes, I’d
love to
live in a more aware society, umm hmm. Then I read the next
sentence
and I’m
brought up short.

We all need love, acceptance, compassion. Compassion is one of
the most
healing things
going! Power and control, on the other hand, just get
people’s backs up, thrust them into dysfunctional modes of
thinking
and
perpetuate a lack of awareness all around.

Just my two cents,
Tiger

PS I bet if you took a shot of heroin, you would experience
bliss! (not
that I’m suggesting you do) I believe it is just how human beings
are wired.
We’ve all got the same neurotransmitters, more or less.

Hi Tiger,

Well, I seem to recall, from the days when I used to go to
conferences and
stuff, that studies have shown that only a small percentage of
school kids
who used heroin developed a habit. (Howard Parker in Sheffield, or
something
like that, about 1000 individuals
studied). This is not quite the
same as
what you’re saying, I appreciate, but it shows that the drug of
itself is
not necessarily addicting. I don’t know if anyone knows what makes
a
difference but I’d be willing to bet that, psychologically, it
relates
strongly to “ego orientation” vs “underlying levels of feeling.”
If
you’ve
developed a self-image that requires you to repress more feelings
than the
endogenous opiates in your body can do, then taking heroin is
going
to make
you feel pretty good. I would personally say that this is very
likely one
psychological mechanism behind addiction. This would explain why
so
many
addicts do come from relatively high trauma backgrounds. For, as
kids, we
learn that to “get things” and to “be popular” we need to
be able to
keep
our feelings a bit under control, not just likely to collapse from
overfeeling at any time.

With bliss, (or anxiety for that matter), these are
experiential
things
and no neuroscientist can explain them beyond pointing a little at
things
that seem to be involved. What is clear is that the states are
relative to
one another. If you’re basically a happy person bliss is
inevitably
less
attractive than if you’re an anxious person.

About awareness, yes, I would love to force everyone to be more
aware!
And, inevitably, it doesn’t really work like that! But that’s my
position
anyway. What to do? Yes, compassion is needed, sometimes a lot of
it. Also,
all the power and control at times. I’m not so
busy with how I think
society
should be, or trying to like Understand the world, I just put my
position
out really. About choice, well, it seems like a great thing, for
sure, but
to me it’s a little the same as trying to push compassion at the
expense of
power. In philosophy or spirituality or whatever, some people
believe that
free will exists, others that the universe is entirely
deterministic. Who
the fuck knows? Both are cool viewpoints, and I personally
wouldn’t
just
want to just trapped in just one of them.

Is it cool to allow someone you care about to carry on fucking
their life
up because you believe so much in their free will? Not for me! I
like to
have the guts to take a position. And, to be honest, it’s a little

bit what
I miss in this list, where half the time everyone seems to be
talking it up
all nice but actually underneath there are shed-loads of feelings.
I
don’t
know if this says anything significant about ibogaine, or about
the
people
who are attracted to administering it, or what. But I notice it.

Nick

/]=———————————————————————=[
\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands:
http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]

\]=———————————————————————=[
/

With MSN Spaces email straight to your blog. Upload jokes, photos
and more. It’s free!

/]=———————————————————————=
[
\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands:
http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]

\]=———————————————————————=
[
/

/]=———————————————————————=
[
\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands:
http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]

\]=———————————————————————=
[
/

Be one of the first to try Windows Live Mail

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands:
http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html
[%]

\]=———————————————————————=[/

Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. PC-to-Phone calls for ridiculously low
rates.

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands:
http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html
[%]

\]=———————————————————————=[/

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html
[%]

\]=———————————————————————=[/

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html
[%]

\]=———————————————————————=[/

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html
[%]

\]=———————————————————————=[/

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: jon@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] (OT) old cbgb’s gig
Date: April 5, 2006 at 4:24:11 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

neat =)

btw, how do you know how cbgb’s is doing with their lease or whatever? i
read an article sometime last year that said the landlord was pushing the
rent way up or something and that their future looked kinda shaky.

Hi all,
I realize I’ve been posting lots of photos lately. Here’re are three more
(I’ve attached them too Callie), from a show V and I did with our old band
at CBGB’s about 8 years ago, back in one of my mohawk phases. This was
taken during my methadone days as well. (So is this on or off topic?)
Funny how I’m not a big bloated fatty either, even on whatever I was on at
this time, 70 a day I think (not my highest nor lowest regular dosage
either, but I stayed at 70s for a little while, before dropping to 40 for
a couple years).
And V is finally growing her hair back. Yaaa! Or, YIPPIE, to quote a
friend. (I literally cried when she cut it all off. I was surprised how
much it hurt when she woke me from a nap one day a couple years ago to
tell me, “Hi honey, I cut off all my beautiful long red hair that you love
so much…” or words to this effect anyway. Now I AM getting waaaay off
topic, so I bid you all good day.)

Asbestos at CBGBs, April, 1998 (Me on guitar, DJ Ness on bass)

—–
“If God dropped acid, would he see people?”  ~Steven Wright

Peace, love and lotsof respect.
Preston Peet
ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor Underground- the Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations,
Astonishing Archaeology and Hidden History
Editor Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Columnist HighTimes mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html
[%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: jon@mindvox.com
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] OT! Eating cattle or food
Date: April 5, 2006 at 4:13:19 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

ehehehe.. you could always become a Jainist… =)

but really, i simply do not understand why, if eating animals is immoral
or mean or whatever, then why isn’t eating plants immoral and mean?

seems egocentric to me…

Ohhh noooo, that’s it I’m going on a Oxygen only diet!!!!
Does anyone have any recipes for air???

—–Original Message—–
From: jon@mindvox.com [mailto:jon@mindvox.com]
Sent: Thursday, 6 April 2006 6:25 a.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] OT! Eating cattle or food

potatoes have eyes too =P

i remember this punk song about how silly it is that vegetarians, for
example, don’t eat clams… because clams have essentially the same kind
of nervous system as broccoli and cauliflower…

the line between plant and animal is not an entirely clear one.. and the
decision to eat plants but not animals seems to me a pretty arbitrary one.
plants are living, breathing, and to some degree, thinking creatures as
well. but they get no love from PETA…

i guess my basic point is.. eat whatever you’re comfortable with. but
realise that whatever you eat, ANYTHING you eat, inflicts suffering on
some creature.

such is the nature of life.

ahaha… speaking of PETA, i saw the best bumper sticker a couple weeks
ago….eheh… it said:

“PETA – People Eating Tasty Animals”

=)

oh, and one more thing… as for the whole pet vs. food argument… i know
for a fact that if my cat ever got the chance, he would totally eat me. so
i don’t wanna hear it.. =P

for me eating meat in a society where it’s unnecessary merely promotes
the
fear/bloodthirsty addiction so prevalent in the Western world. I can see
eating meat in a society where there are no alternatives, but where I
live
it’s easy to not eat meat, and I’m glad.
I still do dairy and eggs, but can’t eat anything that might lick it’s
fellow beings, or nuzzle them, or communicate in any way, shape or form
with
one another, even chickens (which I’ve been told are ok to eat because
“they’re stupid.” If that were the only criteria for being ok to eat,
I’d
be
a cannibal). Again, this is only my own viewpoint, but there seems to be
something unenlightened, to me, how some folk can have “pets” but call
cattle mere “food,” making no connection to the living, breathing,
thinking
creatures sharing the planet with us.

Butt, and it’s a great big butt, I can’t really fault anyone for their
eating habits beyond stating how I personally feel, particularly about
factory farming, inhumane treatment of our “food” and the wonton
slaughter
of living creatures when it isn’t necessary for our survival, only to
feed
our addiction to blood and flesh these days (Of course one couuld take
this
to extreme and tell me plants are also living, but I limit my empathy
and
eating ban to beings with eys I guess).
That’s because I’m…pro-choice at heart.

—–
“If God dropped acid, would he see people?”  ~Steven Wright

Peace, love and lotsof respect.
Preston Peet
ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor Underground- the Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations,
Astonishing Archaeology and Hidden History
Editor Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Columnist HighTimes mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —–
From: Crooked Eye
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Tuesday, April 04, 2006 3:53 AM
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Whats a Republican?

Cow’s are tasty…  If we aren’t supposed to eat animals, then why are
they
made out of meat?  😀  I fail how to see eating cows equates to
racism…
I
eat a lot of cows, but I have a mixed family…  If it makes you feel
any
better we eat a lot of chickens, too..  I love turkey, the tryptophan
makes
me sleepy…

Alan Hehe <a.h.veil68@hotmail.com> wrote:
Don’t call me Baby…well, you can…since you’re not close enough
for
me
to do anything about it! Plus, that’s a freedom, too…Just like my
ability
to talk about pro-choice. As for your information, no, I don’t think the
way
the abortion system is set up–but I absolutely believe in having the
right…And no, you don’t have 9 months to decide whether to have the
rug
rat or not–there is a cut-off, a limit to when abortions can be
performed.
And so you think, because cows aren’t pets, or aren’t ‘cute’, then
it’s
okay to torture them? And to cut the balls of bulls off without any
anesthetic? To make chickens live in a cage so small they can barely
turn
around? And George Bush–wanting to save lives! LOL! That’s the biggest
joke
I’ve ever heard! But it figures; you’re not special..alot of the people
in
this country are brain-washed by the constant disinformation they are
fed….Why do you think there are a hundred commercials warning of the
dangers of marijuana, one of the least harmful drugs known to man, but
yet
maybe one out of those hundred about the truly dangerous drugs, like H
or
Coke?
And you don’t have to be a hindu to have compassion for animals
other
than cats and dogs, you dumb-ass red-neck! In some places they eat
dogs…would that be okay if they ate your dog? You know, I’m totally
wasting my time talking to you, I can already tell that you are way
undereducated, extremely prejudiced. Cows are just food. Are blacks just
niggers, too? God, I can’t stand fuckin’ red-necks like you, especially
the
ones that actually think they’re smart. Once you start doing away with
freedoms, it’s all down-hill. Who’s going to decide what’s right and
wrong?
You?! I would happily put a hollow-point 45 shell into my head if that
possibility existed..of course G.W.B. is quite the redneck himself,
which
is
why you probably like him. First of all, HE’s not fighting for anything.
I
have respect for the soldiers; they don’t decide the mission, they just
do
what they’re told. And how many babies do you think die while we were
waging
a war we were totally lied to about? Or is that okay? You think the
babies
over there even know what a terrorist is? This world is already
over-populated..if people like you ran things, the world would run out
of
resources within a decade! The oh so precious children! Everyone starts
out
as a child..some people, like you, remain one, in their minds, their
whole
life. But those sweet children often grow up to be killers and rapists,
and
often for no apparent reason!  Strong belief does only one thing: close
your
mind. Boy, that ibogaine is gonna have fun with you!!!!! Cows are just
food!
Well, we’re just food, too…if a grizzly decides you look good! God,
what
egotism!  You claim to be a Christian (I do not) but you must have
misssed
the part about not judging lest you be judged yourself…And I bet ibo’s
gonna drive that one home with a psychoactive sledgehammer! You’ve got
your
response, but I really no longer wish to talk with you. I’ve spent too
much
time arguing with all the fascists on this list, instead of hanging out
with
the cool, in the know ,people: by that meaning knowing that the whole
Govt.
is totally corrupt, actually controlled by a few wealthy and extremely
powerful people, and they constantly just feed us disinformation, while
manipulating the world through economic control, etc, and alot of other
things you wouldn’t understand. BYE< NOW, Billy BOY. Go get a burger!

From:  “Billy J” <billjohnson6@sympatico.ca>
Reply-To:  ibogaine@mindvox.com
To:  ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject:  RE: [Ibogaine] Whats a Republican?
Date:  Tue, 04 Apr 2006 02:19:25 -0400
Hear this peace and take it to your Heart FRIEND.
1st if we go back to Killing kids for the sins of their fathers
(Child of a Rapist) Do you think that is more civilized then Raising
Cattle for food,(Cattle are food “not Pets”) although you may be
from India or somewhere that they worship your cows and even there
fecal matter I hear! Now if your are at that junkger(Place) then I
will have to say -well Al, Bless you, but when was the last time you
had your precious cow go to war for YOUR FREEDOMS that I am sure you
are enjoying- Yes?
Allan , do you really love cows (the 4 legged ones that is) or
are you in your 2nd or 3rd reincarnation and you where once a cow
and you have come into this wierd mooing stage and you just could
not figure it out.
Ok That is sarcasm – Sorry< I’ll get serious.
Oh Ya Your aborting a fetus-, and yes I know that in the USof A
being the most civilized Nation that has usually voted anti-
Christian ( just in case somebody didn’t let Everybody do what FEELs
GOOD)
Ya you can Have sex with anybody you want and then if a girl gets
pregnant, or do you call it fetus something, oh well  so shes
pregnant you have 9 months to decide whether or not you what the
little BLOB Because your fetus can be kicking up a storm and as long
as you can keep its stupid( oh it,s brain isn’t functioning yet
,right) well as long as you can keep its head inside the grown up
fetus ( that would be the female, The pregnant one, knocked up one ,
dumb one what ever you would call someone like that ( Maybe MOM)
well just reach in and CRUSH ITS SCULL and or STICK A SYRINGE INTO
THe Back of it HEAD JUST UNTIL ITS STOPS PUTTINGN UP A FIGHT, AND
they do fight Allan, just go and ask your abortion doctor.– PARTIAL
BIRTH ABORTION– VERY NICE–
oH YA AND YOU KNOW WHAT ALLY BABY THAT STUPID WAR MOGER THAT YOU
HAVE AS A PRESIDENT WOULD LIKE NOTHING MORE THAN TO SAVE PEOPLE BUT
ALL YOU PEOPLE THAT GOD GAVE YOU FREE CHOICE HAVE DECIDED TO VOTE
FOR THE REAL KILLERS-
Have you any clue how many of your fetuses are done away with
each year in the USA alone,, Allan Baby– way way more in 1 year
than have been killed in ALL the World wars— How many do you think
are rape and how many are just another form of birth control,, Your
Planned Parenthood is a multi-Billion dollar industry that fights
for you to have the freedom to get rid of your Babies- But They do
not do it for free– They are rich.One more thing if we can justify
killing because you THINK they don’t feel pain- Why not line up all
us addicts right after a good whack and while we are feeling no pain
BANG-
Save a lot of tax dollars- The Meth Clinics would be Pissed though.

Love Ya!

Just Don’t say it is OK To Kill My Children- Or Yours

B

—-Original Message Follows—-
From: “Alan Hehe” <a.h.veil68@hotmail.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] RE: [Pornography,psychology,Choice,force,) 2
cents
Date: Tue, 04 Apr 2006 01:25:21 -0400
MIME-Version: 1.0
Received: from tomts30-srv.bellnexxia.net ([209.226.175.104]) by
bay0-pamc1-f3.bay0.hotmail.com with Microsoft
SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Mon, 3 Apr 2006 22:27:22 -0700
Received: from toip4.bellnexxia.net ([209.226.175.87])          by
tomts30-srv.bellnexxia.net          (InterMail vM.5.01.06.13
201-253-122-130-113-20050324) with ESMTP          id
<20060404052721.IXFI18550.tomts30-srv.bellnexxia.net@toip4.bellnexxia.net>
for <billjohnson6@sympatico.ca>; Tue, 4 Apr 2006 01:27:21
-0400
Received: from tanelorn.mindvox.com (HELO mail.mindvox.com)
([64.124.179.118])  by toip4.bellnexxia.net with ESMTP; 04 Apr 2006
01:27:16 -0400
Received: (qmail 1073 invoked by uid 513); 4 Apr 2006 01:27:15 -0400
Received: (qmail 1067 invoked by uid 514); 4 Apr 2006 01:27:15 -0400
X-Message-Info: moY6YVwXQ46hfM+PXD+r03SFMVOY3E1daJYU/Sm1Nkw=
Mailing-List: contact ibogaine-help@mindvox.com; run by ezmlm
Precedence: bulk
X-No-Archive: yes
List-Post: <mailto:ibogaine@mindvox.com>
List-Help: <mailto:ibogaine-help@mindvox.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:ibogaine-unsubscribe@mindvox.com>
List-Subscribe: <mailto:ibogaine-subscribe@mindvox.com>
Delivered-To: mailing list ibogaine@mindvox.com
X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.1 required=4.0
X-Antivirus-MYDOMAIN-Mail-From: a.h.veil68@hotmail.com via
tanelorn.mindvox.com
X-Antivirus-MYDOMAIN: 1.25-st-qms
(Clear:RC:0(65.54.224.26):SA:0(-2.1/4.0):. Processed in 8.08646 secs
Process 1055)
Return-Path:
ibogaine-return-23280-billjohnson6=sympatico.ca@mindvox.com
X-OriginalArrivalTime: 04 Apr 2006 05:27:22.0868 (UTC)
FILETIME=[7363CB40:01C657A8]

I gotta take a piece of this one. Okay, Mr. Anti-choice, let me
ask you this: do you eat meat? If not, then good for you. If so,
have you ever though about the actual, truly painful, totally
inhumane treatment we put animals through? And usually don’t think
twice about it…It’s people like George Bush who make me wish
sometimes that God would hurl an asteroid at us! It’s “God forbid
one human foetus (who does not feel a thing if the abortion is done
in a timely manner, according to the latest research, because their
nervous system isn’t nearly fully developed) should perish, no
matter if it was caused by a rape or is probably going to be born
into alot of suffering–but while I’m on my high horse, cut me a
piece o that cow off and cook it up! It’s sheer egotism that we
believe that humans are so damned
important, but it’s okay if we torture animals, ruin the planet, and
make other people adhere to our beliefs!!! We’re not that important!
And if you believe in a God and the soul, then you know that–if the
foetus even has a soul yet, which I don’t believe it does..I believe
the soul enters with the first breath, and leaves with the
last–that baby is just going back into the arms of God! There is no
death! And since they don’t experience pain, all it becomes is
something for people like you to feel self righteous about!
Personally, I think everyone should smoke pot, and would benefit
from it (except for a few cases), but how would you like it if I
MADE you smoke it? That is, if you don’t, and don’t like it. Or
let’s say you eat meat, but I think it’s just as evil to do that as
to allow abortions, so I outlawed meat–would that be okay with you?
And the cliff analogy is just stupid–not
the same thing at all. But yes, I think if a person is truly
miserable, and wants to die, I would try to talk them out of it, but
I would never stop them by force. That’s called LACK OF FREEDOM. And
if we didn’t make mistakes, how would we ever learn? To be told
something is wrong is one thing..you can tell a person, fire will
burn you..but until they get burned, they will not truly understand,
and that’s what life is all about–learning. No, I don’t like to see
foetus’ abortions–I think prevention is the answer….But
sometimes, I believe it is ‘the best choice’. If everyone like you
had their way, there really would be NO ROOM AT ALL left!!! We’re
already sooo over-populated! It’s like I heard some character say in
a movie recently..”everybody’s kids are so special…it makes you
wonder where all the normal adults come from”. Even God believes in
freedom of choice! That’s why he gave
us FREE WILL. You’re a Republican, aren’t you? And you probably
think that war-mongering asshole of a President is the best-thing
since sliced bread, eh? It’s okay to kill, as long as it’s not a
precious child…even though that child may grow up to be The Son of
Sam!  well…”take me by the ham, no good, no evil, no give a
damn!”  And the Govt. is lying to you! About just about everything.
Peace, love, and freedom. Life is too mysterious to take it so
serious!

From:  “Billy J” <billjohnson6@sympatico.ca>
Reply-To:  ibogaine@mindvox.com
To:  ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject:  [Ibogaine] RE: [Pornography,psychology,Choice,force,) 2
cents
Date:  Sun, 02 Apr 2006 21:45:39 -0400
Well It sounds like this place is really mixing it up so I would
like to add a little REALITY TO YOU PRO CHOICERS, I am sure glad I
was not an abortion’ althought I have had my moments.
Yes My Mom was a young Mom and if she had a choice I think that I
would have no Grandkids, or be babbleing on here.
I too have an attitude, It is about the only thing in this
world that I really have control over.
Tiger– How well did you do with making ALL your own Choices,
Instead of doing
what your were told to do? Not meant to be a shot
at you personally, but I am with the Right or Wrong crowd- No such
thing as grey.
I do know that some people may have grown up believing that
wrong
was right and right was wrong, but I Think that I pretty much knew
when I was stepping out of line and doing wrong.
It is (as most believe) My God , no not God, but My worldly given
Right- to do wrong- It’s my life and if I want to screw it up then
stay out of my way. And you know what I had a lot of sooo called
friends that did just that WATCHED, AS i WAS Killing myself and
ruining a lot of lifes.
But O O O never no no no neverdare step on somebodys toes because
you know what they have a choice, Just like those poor little
Crack
%$^&%$ Women that degrade themselves( and me
myself) due to
everybody. But Never No No Never dare tell somebody or force
someone
to get some help that they may never ever make it to on their own,
due to something called “Pride” “Shame” “Guilt”
Whatever holds them back. They may end up DEAD and it would be
their
own fault, because you know how STRONG us druggies are, and if
that
person dies because he had a choice to get help and refused or
just
couldn’t make it on his/her own and needed YOU (of course they
didn’t tell you that).
I am sorry but I BELIEVE that if you Love Someone or even care a
little, and you see them walking off a cliff and YOU have an
opportunity to stop them, and you don’t- Can you truelly say it
was
their own fault?
Pornography- I never met too many Normal people that would find it
neccesary to take their
cloths off for the public to see. Totally
wrong and if you had your own kids you might not think it too cool
having your buddy beating off while checking out your little girl.
Not nice eh Billy but P–sy T-ts are not meant for anyone except
who
they belong to and their mate.

Bye For Now, That stuff is about the biggest trigger going for any
downfall

Bill
—-Original Message Follows—-
From: “Nick Sandberg” <nick227@tiscali.co.uk>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Opiates
Date: Sun, 2 Apr 2006 10:24:07 +0100
MIME-Version: 1.0
Received: from tomts21-srv.bellnexxia.net ([209.226.175.183]) by
bay0-pamc1-f11.bay0.hotmail.com with Microsoft
SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Sun, 2 Apr 2006 05:38:59
-0700
Received: from toip5.bellnexxia.net ([209.226.175.88])          by
tomts21-srv.bellnexxia.net          (InterMail vM.5.01.06.13
201-253-122-130-113-20050324) with ESMTP          id

<20060402123858.HZPV14030.tomts21-srv.bellnexxia.net@toip5.bellnexxia.net>
for <billjohnson6@sympatico.ca>; Sun, 2 Apr 2006
08:38:58
-0400
Received: from tanelorn.mindvox.com (HELO mail.mindvox.com)
([64.124.179.118])  by toip5.bellnexxia.net with ESMTP; 02 Apr
2006
08:38:58 -0400
Received: (qmail 16967 invoked by uid 513); 2 Apr 2006 08:38:55
-0400
Received: (qmail 16961 invoked by uid
514); 2 Apr 2006 08:38:55
-0400
X-Message-Info: moY6YVwXQ44WAJnUvaOEtK2hXKGagKAsshDbZwj7pSc=
Mailing-List: contact ibogaine-help@mindvox.com; run by ezmlm
Precedence: bulk
X-No-Archive: yes
List-Post: <mailto:ibogaine@mindvox.com>
List-Help: <mailto:ibogaine-help@mindvox.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:ibogaine-unsubscribe@mindvox.com>
List-Subscribe: <mailto:ibogaine-subscribe@mindvox.com>
Delivered-To: mailing list ibogaine@mindvox.com
X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.3 required=4.0
X-Antivirus-MYDOMAIN-Mail-From: nick227@tiscali.co.uk via
tanelorn.mindvox.com
X-Antivirus-MYDOMAIN: 1.25-st-qms
(Clear:RC:0(212.74.114.37):SA:0(-2.3/4.0):. Processed in 2.781926
secs Process 16953)
X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true
X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result:
AQAAAJ0kL0SDE4UI
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.6604 (9.0.2911.0)
Return-Path:
ibogaine-return-23233-billjohnson6=sympatico.ca@mindvox.com
X-OriginalArrivalTime: 02 Apr 2006 12:38:59.0373 (UTC)
FILETIME=[6A155DD0:01C65652]

—–Original Message—–
From: Tiger Lisa [mailto:tigerlisa@gmail.com]
Sent: 01 April 2006 13:44
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Opiates

Dear Nick,
Here’ the part I don’t understand.

You wrote,
Personally, my position is…I think rising awareness is GOOD.
I
would
love to see more people in groups, going through their stuff,
becoming more
aware of their
personal interior dynamic, and moving forward in
life. But,
sadly, I’m not in a position to compel people to do this.

Why would you ever want to COMPEL anyone to do ANYTHING? Do you
really
believe that would be useful, effective, helpful? Do you think
people
actually benefit from, and grow from, being FORCED to do anything?

That is a parent-child model of interaction (and not a
particularly
skillful one, IMO), and it’s going to reinforce childlike,
rebellious and
victim behavior (NOT self-awareness!) in the one so compelled, as
well as
reinforcing bullying behavior and disprespectful and righteous
attitudes
(NOT increased compassion or awareness) in the one doing the
compelling. A
“lose-lose” interaction–no one
wins!

Myself, I believe CHOICE is the name of the game. With choice
comes
responsibility, self-responsibility and a loss of the victim
consciousness
that drives continued reactive and unconscious behavior.

So in a nutshell: Saying something (like awarenss) is GOOD is
one
thing,
but it’s a far cry from that to say,”And I’d love to FORCE you all
to be
more aware! too bad I can’t!” I think that is the essence of
what
*I* am
having a problem with. Yes, awareness is good. I agree. Yes, I’d
love to
live in a more aware society, umm hmm. Then I read the next
sentence
and I’m
brought up short.

We all need love, acceptance, compassion. Compassion is one of
the most
healing things
going! Power and control, on the other hand, just get
people’s backs up, thrust them into dysfunctional modes of
thinking
and
perpetuate a lack of awareness all around.

Just my two cents,
Tiger

PS I bet if you took a shot of heroin, you would experience
bliss! (not
that I’m suggesting you do) I believe it is just how human beings
are wired.
We’ve all got the same neurotransmitters, more or less.

Hi Tiger,

Well, I seem to recall, from the days when I used to go to
conferences and
stuff, that studies have shown that only a small percentage of
school kids
who used heroin developed a habit. (Howard Parker in Sheffield, or
something
like that, about 1000 individuals
studied). This is not quite the
same as
what you’re saying, I appreciate, but it shows that the drug of
itself is
not necessarily addicting. I don’t know if anyone knows what makes
a
difference but I’d be willing to bet that, psychologically, it
relates
strongly to “ego orientation” vs “underlying levels of feeling.”
If
you’ve
developed a self-image that requires you to repress more feelings
than the
endogenous opiates in your body can do, then taking heroin is
going
to make
you feel pretty good. I would personally say that this is very
likely one
psychological mechanism behind addiction. This would explain why
so
many
addicts do come from relatively high trauma backgrounds. For, as
kids, we
learn that to “get things” and to “be popular” we need to
be able to
keep
our feelings a bit under control, not just likely to collapse from
overfeeling at any time.

With bliss, (or anxiety for that matter), these are
experiential
things
and no neuroscientist can explain them beyond pointing a little at
things
that seem to be involved. What is clear is that the states are
relative to
one another. If you’re basically a happy person bliss is
inevitably
less
attractive than if you’re an anxious person.

About awareness, yes, I would love to force everyone to be more
aware!
And, inevitably, it doesn’t really work like that! But that’s my
position
anyway. What to do? Yes, compassion is needed, sometimes a lot of
it. Also,
all the power and control at times. I’m not so
busy with how I think
society
should be, or trying to like Understand the world, I just put my
position
out really. About choice, well, it seems like a great thing, for
sure, but
to me it’s a little the same as trying to push compassion at the
expense of
power. In philosophy or spirituality or whatever, some people
believe that
free will exists, others that the universe is entirely
deterministic. Who
the fuck knows? Both are cool viewpoints, and I personally
wouldn’t
just
want to just trapped in just one of them.

Is it cool to allow someone you care about to carry on fucking
their life
up because you believe so much in their free will? Not for me! I
like to
have the guts to take a position. And, to be honest, it’s a little

bit what
I miss in this list, where half the time everyone seems to be
talking it up
all nice but actually underneath there are shed-loads of feelings.
I
don’t
know if this says anything significant about ibogaine, or about
the
people
who are attracted to administering it, or what. But I notice it.

Nick

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands:
http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]

\]=———————————————————————=[/

With MSN Spaces email straight to your blog. Upload jokes, photos
and more. It’s free!

/]=———————————————————————=[
\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands:
http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]

\]=———————————————————————=[
/

/]=———————————————————————=[
\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands:
http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]

\]=———————————————————————=[
/

Be one of the first to try Windows Live Mail

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands:
http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html
[%]

\]=———————————————————————=[/

Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. PC-to-Phone calls for ridiculously low
rates.

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands:
http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html
[%]

\]=———————————————————————=[/

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html
[%]

\]=———————————————————————=[/

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html
[%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: Kirk <captkirk@clear.net.nz>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] OT! Eating cattle or food
Date: April 5, 2006 at 4:06:16 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Ohhh noooo, that’s it I’m going on a Oxygen only diet!!!!
Does anyone have any recipes for air???

—–Original Message—–
From: jon@mindvox.com [mailto:jon@mindvox.com]
Sent: Thursday, 6 April 2006 6:25 a.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] OT! Eating cattle or food

potatoes have eyes too =P

i remember this punk song about how silly it is that vegetarians, for
example, don’t eat clams… because clams have essentially the same kind
of nervous system as broccoli and cauliflower…

the line between plant and animal is not an entirely clear one.. and the
decision to eat plants but not animals seems to me a pretty arbitrary one.
plants are living, breathing, and to some degree, thinking creatures as
well. but they get no love from PETA…

i guess my basic point is.. eat whatever you’re comfortable with. but
realise that whatever you eat, ANYTHING you eat, inflicts suffering on
some creature.

such is the nature of life.

ahaha… speaking of PETA, i saw the best bumper sticker a couple weeks
ago….eheh… it said:

“PETA – People Eating Tasty Animals”

=)

oh, and one more thing… as for the whole pet vs. food argument… i know
for a fact that if my cat ever got the chance, he would totally eat me. so
i don’t wanna hear it.. =P

for me eating meat in a society where it’s unnecessary merely promotes the
fear/bloodthirsty addiction so prevalent in the Western world. I can see
eating meat in a society where there are no alternatives, but where I live
it’s easy to not eat meat, and I’m glad.
I still do dairy and eggs, but can’t eat anything that might lick it’s
fellow beings, or nuzzle them, or communicate in any way, shape or form
with
one another, even chickens (which I’ve been told are ok to eat because
“they’re stupid.” If that were the only criteria for being ok to eat, I’d
be
a cannibal). Again, this is only my own viewpoint, but there seems to be
something unenlightened, to me, how some folk can have “pets” but call
cattle mere “food,” making no connection to the living, breathing,
thinking
creatures sharing the planet with us.

Butt, and it’s a great big butt, I can’t really fault anyone for their
eating habits beyond stating how I personally feel, particularly about
factory farming, inhumane treatment of our “food” and the wonton slaughter
of living creatures when it isn’t necessary for our survival, only to feed
our addiction to blood and flesh these days (Of course one couuld take
this
to extreme and tell me plants are also living, but I limit my empathy and
eating ban to beings with eys I guess).
That’s because I’m…pro-choice at heart.

—–
“If God dropped acid, would he see people?”  ~Steven Wright

Peace, love and lotsof respect.
Preston Peet
ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor Underground- the Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations,
Astonishing Archaeology and Hidden History
Editor Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Columnist HighTimes mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —–
From: Crooked Eye
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Tuesday, April 04, 2006 3:53 AM
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Whats a Republican?

Cow’s are tasty…  If we aren’t supposed to eat animals, then why are
they
made out of meat?  😀  I fail how to see eating cows equates to racism…
I
eat a lot of cows, but I have a mixed family…  If it makes you feel any
better we eat a lot of chickens, too..  I love turkey, the tryptophan
makes
me sleepy…

Alan Hehe <a.h.veil68@hotmail.com> wrote:
Don’t call me Baby…well, you can…since you’re not close enough for
me
to do anything about it! Plus, that’s a freedom, too…Just like my
ability
to talk about pro-choice. As for your information, no, I don’t think the
way
the abortion system is set up–but I absolutely believe in having the
right…And no, you don’t have 9 months to decide whether to have the rug
rat or not–there is a cut-off, a limit to when abortions can be
performed.
And so you think, because cows aren’t pets, or aren’t ‘cute’, then
it’s
okay to torture them? And to cut the balls of bulls off without any
anesthetic? To make chickens live in a cage so small they can barely turn
around? And George Bush–wanting to save lives! LOL! That’s the biggest
joke
I’ve ever heard! But it figures; you’re not special..alot of the people in
this country are brain-washed by the constant disinformation they are
fed….Why do you think there are a hundred commercials warning of the
dangers of marijuana, one of the least harmful drugs known to man, but yet
maybe one out of those hundred about the truly dangerous drugs, like H or
Coke?
And you don’t have to be a hindu to have compassion for animals
other
than cats and dogs, you dumb-ass red-neck! In some places they eat
dogs…would that be okay if they ate your dog? You know, I’m totally
wasting my time talking to you, I can already tell that you are way
undereducated, extremely prejudiced. Cows are just food. Are blacks just
niggers, too? God, I can’t stand fuckin’ red-necks like you, especially
the
ones that actually think they’re smart. Once you start doing away with
freedoms, it’s all down-hill. Who’s going to decide what’s right and
wrong?
You?! I would happily put a hollow-point 45 shell into my head if that
possibility existed..of course G.W.B. is quite the redneck himself, which
is
why you probably like him. First of all, HE’s not fighting for anything. I
have respect for the soldiers; they don’t decide the mission, they just do
what they’re told. And how many babies do you think die while we were
waging
a war we were totally lied to about? Or is that okay? You think the babies
over there even know what a terrorist is? This world is already
over-populated..if people like you ran things, the world would run out of
resources within a decade! The oh so precious children! Everyone starts
out
as a child..some people, like you, remain one, in their minds, their whole
life. But those sweet children often grow up to be killers and rapists,
and
often for no apparent reason!  Strong belief does only one thing: close
your
mind. Boy, that ibogaine is gonna have fun with you!!!!! Cows are just
food!
Well, we’re just food, too…if a grizzly decides you look good! God, what
egotism!  You claim to be a Christian (I do not) but you must have misssed
the part about not judging lest you be judged yourself…And I bet ibo’s
gonna drive that one home with a psychoactive sledgehammer! You’ve got
your
response, but I really no longer wish to talk with you. I’ve spent too
much
time arguing with all the fascists on this list, instead of hanging out
with
the cool, in the know ,people: by that meaning knowing that the whole
Govt.
is totally corrupt, actually controlled by a few wealthy and extremely
powerful people, and they constantly just feed us disinformation, while
manipulating the world through economic control, etc, and alot of other
things you wouldn’t understand. BYE< NOW, Billy BOY. Go get a burger!

From:  “Billy J” <billjohnson6@sympatico.ca>
Reply-To:  ibogaine@mindvox.com
To:  ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject:  RE: [Ibogaine] Whats a Republican?
Date:  Tue, 04 Apr 2006 02:19:25 -0400
Hear this peace and take it to your Heart FRIEND.
1st if we go back to Killing kids for the sins of their fathers
(Child of a Rapist) Do you think that is more civilized then Raising
Cattle for food,(Cattle are food “not Pets”) although you may be
from India or somewhere that they worship your cows and even there
fecal matter I hear! Now if your are at that junkger(Place) then I
will have to say -well Al, Bless you, but when was the last time you
had your precious cow go to war for YOUR FREEDOMS that I am sure you
are enjoying- Yes?
Allan , do you really love cows (the 4 legged ones that is) or
are you in your 2nd or 3rd reincarnation and you where once a cow
and you have come into this wierd mooing stage and you just could
not figure it out.
Ok That is sarcasm – Sorry< I’ll get serious.
Oh Ya Your aborting a fetus-, and yes I know that in the USof A
being the most civilized Nation that has usually voted anti-
Christian ( just in case somebody didn’t let Everybody do what FEELs
GOOD)
Ya you can Have sex with anybody you want and then if a girl gets
pregnant, or do you call it fetus something, oh well  so shes
pregnant you have 9 months to decide whether or not you what the
little BLOB Because your fetus can be kicking up a storm and as long
as you can keep its stupid( oh it,s brain isn’t functioning yet
,right) well as long as you can keep its head inside the grown up
fetus ( that would be the female, The pregnant one, knocked up one ,
dumb one what ever you would call someone like that ( Maybe MOM)
well just reach in and CRUSH ITS SCULL and or STICK A SYRINGE INTO
THe Back of it HEAD JUST UNTIL ITS STOPS PUTTINGN UP A FIGHT, AND
they do fight Allan, just go and ask your abortion doctor.– PARTIAL
BIRTH ABORTION– VERY NICE–
oH YA AND YOU KNOW WHAT ALLY BABY THAT STUPID WAR MOGER THAT YOU
HAVE AS A PRESIDENT WOULD LIKE NOTHING MORE THAN TO SAVE PEOPLE BUT
ALL YOU PEOPLE THAT GOD GAVE YOU FREE CHOICE HAVE DECIDED TO VOTE
FOR THE REAL KILLERS-
Have you any clue how many of your fetuses are done away with
each year in the USA alone,, Allan Baby– way way more in 1 year
than have been killed in ALL the World wars— How many do you think
are rape and how many are just another form of birth control,, Your
Planned Parenthood is a multi-Billion dollar industry that fights
for you to have the freedom to get rid of your Babies- But They do
not do it for free– They are rich.One more thing if we can justify
killing because you THINK they don’t feel pain- Why not line up all
us addicts right after a good whack and while we are feeling no pain
BANG-
Save a lot of tax dollars- The Meth Clinics would be Pissed though.

Love Ya!

Just Don’t say it is OK To Kill My Children- Or Yours

B

—-Original Message Follows—-
From: “Alan Hehe” <a.h.veil68@hotmail.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] RE: [Pornography,psychology,Choice,force,) 2
cents
Date: Tue, 04 Apr 2006 01:25:21 -0400
MIME-Version: 1.0
Received: from tomts30-srv.bellnexxia.net ([209.226.175.104]) by
bay0-pamc1-f3.bay0.hotmail.com with Microsoft
SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Mon, 3 Apr 2006 22:27:22 -0700
Received: from toip4.bellnexxia.net ([209.226.175.87])          by
tomts30-srv.bellnexxia.net          (InterMail vM.5.01.06.13
201-253-122-130-113-20050324) with ESMTP          id
<20060404052721.IXFI18550.tomts30-srv.bellnexxia.net@toip4.bellnexxia.net>
for <billjohnson6@sympatico.ca>; Tue, 4 Apr 2006 01:27:21
-0400
Received: from tanelorn.mindvox.com (HELO mail.mindvox.com)
([64.124.179.118])  by toip4.bellnexxia.net with ESMTP; 04 Apr 2006
01:27:16 -0400
Received: (qmail 1073 invoked by uid 513); 4 Apr 2006 01:27:15 -0400
Received: (qmail 1067 invoked by uid 514); 4 Apr 2006 01:27:15 -0400
X-Message-Info: moY6YVwXQ46hfM+PXD+r03SFMVOY3E1daJYU/Sm1Nkw=
Mailing-List: contact ibogaine-help@mindvox.com; run by ezmlm
Precedence: bulk
X-No-Archive: yes
List-Post: <mailto:ibogaine@mindvox.com>
List-Help: <mailto:ibogaine-help@mindvox.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:ibogaine-unsubscribe@mindvox.com>
List-Subscribe: <mailto:ibogaine-subscribe@mindvox.com>
Delivered-To: mailing list ibogaine@mindvox.com
X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.1 required=4.0
X-Antivirus-MYDOMAIN-Mail-From: a.h.veil68@hotmail.com via
tanelorn.mindvox.com
X-Antivirus-MYDOMAIN: 1.25-st-qms
(Clear:RC:0(65.54.224.26):SA:0(-2.1/4.0):. Processed in 8.08646 secs
Process 1055)
Return-Path:
ibogaine-return-23280-billjohnson6=sympatico.ca@mindvox.com
X-OriginalArrivalTime: 04 Apr 2006 05:27:22.0868 (UTC)
FILETIME=[7363CB40:01C657A8]

I gotta take a piece of this one. Okay, Mr. Anti-choice, let me
ask you this: do you eat meat? If not, then good for you. If so,
have you ever though about the actual, truly painful, totally
inhumane treatment we put animals through? And usually don’t think
twice about it…It’s people like George Bush who make me wish
sometimes that God would hurl an asteroid at us! It’s “God forbid
one human foetus (who does not feel a thing if the abortion is done
in a timely manner, according to the latest research, because their
nervous system isn’t nearly fully developed) should perish, no
matter if it was caused by a rape or is probably going to be born
into alot of suffering–but while I’m on my high horse, cut me a
piece o that cow off and cook it up! It’s sheer egotism that we
believe that humans are so damned
important, but it’s okay if we torture animals, ruin the planet, and
make other people adhere to our beliefs!!! We’re not that important!
And if you believe in a God and the soul, then you know that–if the
foetus even has a soul yet, which I don’t believe it does..I believe
the soul enters with the first breath, and leaves with the
last–that baby is just going back into the arms of God! There is no
death! And since they don’t experience pain, all it becomes is
something for people like you to feel self righteous about!
Personally, I think everyone should smoke pot, and would benefit
from it (except for a few cases), but how would you like it if I
MADE you smoke it? That is, if you don’t, and don’t like it. Or
let’s say you eat meat, but I think it’s just as evil to do that as
to allow abortions, so I outlawed meat–would that be okay with you?
And the cliff analogy is just stupid–not
the same thing at all. But yes, I think if a person is truly
miserable, and wants to die, I would try to talk them out of it, but
I would never stop them by force. That’s called LACK OF FREEDOM. And
if we didn’t make mistakes, how would we ever learn? To be told
something is wrong is one thing..you can tell a person, fire will
burn you..but until they get burned, they will not truly understand,
and that’s what life is all about–learning. No, I don’t like to see
foetus’ abortions–I think prevention is the answer….But
sometimes, I believe it is ‘the best choice’. If everyone like you
had their way, there really would be NO ROOM AT ALL left!!! We’re
already sooo over-populated! It’s like I heard some character say in
a movie recently..”everybody’s kids are so special…it makes you
wonder where all the normal adults come from”. Even God believes in
freedom of choice! That’s why he gave
us FREE WILL. You’re a Republican, aren’t you? And you probably
think that war-mongering asshole of a President is the best-thing
since sliced bread, eh? It’s okay to kill, as long as it’s not a
precious child…even though that child may grow up to be The Son of
Sam!  well…”take me by the ham, no good, no evil, no give a
damn!”  And the Govt. is lying to you! About just about everything.
Peace, love, and freedom. Life is too mysterious to take it so
serious!

From:  “Billy J” <billjohnson6@sympatico.ca>
Reply-To:  ibogaine@mindvox.com
To:  ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject:  [Ibogaine] RE: [Pornography,psychology,Choice,force,) 2
cents
Date:  Sun, 02 Apr 2006 21:45:39 -0400
Well It sounds like this place is really mixing it up so I would
like to add a little REALITY TO YOU PRO CHOICERS, I am sure glad I
was not an abortion’ althought I have had my moments.
Yes My Mom was a young Mom and if she had a choice I think that I
would have no Grandkids, or be babbleing on here.
I too have an attitude, It is about the only thing in this
world that I really have control over.
Tiger– How well did you do with making ALL your own Choices,
Instead of doing
what your were told to do? Not meant to be a shot
at you personally, but I am with the Right or Wrong crowd- No such
thing as grey.
I do know that some people may have grown up believing that
wrong
was right and right was wrong, but I Think that I pretty much knew
when I was stepping out of line and doing wrong.
It is (as most believe) My God , no not God, but My worldly given
Right- to do wrong- It’s my life and if I want to screw it up then
stay out of my way. And you know what I had a lot of sooo called
friends that did just that WATCHED, AS i WAS Killing myself and
ruining a lot of lifes.
But O O O never no no no neverdare step on somebodys toes because
you know what they have a choice, Just like those poor little
Crack
%$^&%$ Women that degrade themselves( and me
myself) due to
everybody. But Never No No Never dare tell somebody or force
someone
to get some help that they may never ever make it to on their own,
due to something called “Pride” “Shame” “Guilt”
Whatever holds them back. They may end up DEAD and it would be
their
own fault, because you know how STRONG us druggies are, and if
that
person dies because he had a choice to get help and refused or
just
couldn’t make it on his/her own and needed YOU (of course they
didn’t tell you that).
I am sorry but I BELIEVE that if you Love Someone or even care a
little, and you see them walking off a cliff and YOU have an
opportunity to stop them, and you don’t- Can you truelly say it
was
their own fault?
Pornography- I never met too many Normal people that would find it
neccesary to take their
cloths off for the public to see. Totally
wrong and if you had your own kids you might not think it too cool
having your buddy beating off while checking out your little girl.
Not nice eh Billy but P–sy T-ts are not meant for anyone except
who
they belong to and their mate.

Bye For Now, That stuff is about the biggest trigger going for any
downfall

Bill
—-Original Message Follows—-
From: “Nick Sandberg” <nick227@tiscali.co.uk>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Opiates
Date: Sun, 2 Apr 2006 10:24:07 +0100
MIME-Version: 1.0
Received: from tomts21-srv.bellnexxia.net ([209.226.175.183]) by
bay0-pamc1-f11.bay0.hotmail.com with Microsoft
SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Sun, 2 Apr 2006 05:38:59
-0700
Received: from toip5.bellnexxia.net ([209.226.175.88])          by
tomts21-srv.bellnexxia.net          (InterMail vM.5.01.06.13
201-253-122-130-113-20050324) with ESMTP          id

<20060402123858.HZPV14030.tomts21-srv.bellnexxia.net@toip5.bellnexxia.net>
for <billjohnson6@sympatico.ca>; Sun, 2 Apr 2006
08:38:58
-0400
Received: from tanelorn.mindvox.com (HELO mail.mindvox.com)
([64.124.179.118])  by toip5.bellnexxia.net with ESMTP; 02 Apr
2006
08:38:58 -0400
Received: (qmail 16967 invoked by uid 513); 2 Apr 2006 08:38:55
-0400
Received: (qmail 16961 invoked by uid
514); 2 Apr 2006 08:38:55
-0400
X-Message-Info: moY6YVwXQ44WAJnUvaOEtK2hXKGagKAsshDbZwj7pSc=
Mailing-List: contact ibogaine-help@mindvox.com; run by ezmlm
Precedence: bulk
X-No-Archive: yes
List-Post: <mailto:ibogaine@mindvox.com>
List-Help: <mailto:ibogaine-help@mindvox.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:ibogaine-unsubscribe@mindvox.com>
List-Subscribe: <mailto:ibogaine-subscribe@mindvox.com>
Delivered-To: mailing list ibogaine@mindvox.com
X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.3 required=4.0
X-Antivirus-MYDOMAIN-Mail-From: nick227@tiscali.co.uk via
tanelorn.mindvox.com
X-Antivirus-MYDOMAIN: 1.25-st-qms
(Clear:RC:0(212.74.114.37):SA:0(-2.3/4.0):. Processed in 2.781926
secs Process 16953)
X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true
X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result:
AQAAAJ0kL0SDE4UI
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.6604 (9.0.2911.0)
Return-Path:
ibogaine-return-23233-billjohnson6=sympatico.ca@mindvox.com
X-OriginalArrivalTime: 02 Apr 2006 12:38:59.0373 (UTC)
FILETIME=[6A155DD0:01C65652]

—–Original Message—–
From: Tiger Lisa [mailto:tigerlisa@gmail.com]
Sent: 01 April 2006 13:44
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Opiates

Dear Nick,
Here’ the part I don’t understand.

You wrote,
Personally, my position is…I think rising awareness is GOOD.
I
would
love to see more people in groups, going through their stuff,
becoming more
aware of their
personal interior dynamic, and moving forward in
life. But,
sadly, I’m not in a position to compel people to do this.

Why would you ever want to COMPEL anyone to do ANYTHING? Do you
really
believe that would be useful, effective, helpful? Do you think
people
actually benefit from, and grow from, being FORCED to do anything?

That is a parent-child model of interaction (and not a
particularly
skillful one, IMO), and it’s going to reinforce childlike,
rebellious and
victim behavior (NOT self-awareness!) in the one so compelled, as
well as
reinforcing bullying behavior and disprespectful and righteous
attitudes
(NOT increased compassion or awareness) in the one doing the
compelling. A
“lose-lose” interaction–no one
wins!

Myself, I believe CHOICE is the name of the game. With choice
comes
responsibility, self-responsibility and a loss of the victim
consciousness
that drives continued reactive and unconscious behavior.

So in a nutshell: Saying something (like awarenss) is GOOD is
one
thing,
but it’s a far cry from that to say,”And I’d love to FORCE you all
to be
more aware! too bad I can’t!” I think that is the essence of
what
*I* am
having a problem with. Yes, awareness is good. I agree. Yes, I’d
love to
live in a more aware society, umm hmm. Then I read the next
sentence
and I’m
brought up short.

We all need love, acceptance, compassion. Compassion is one of
the most
healing things
going! Power and control, on the other hand, just get
people’s backs up, thrust them into dysfunctional modes of
thinking
and
perpetuate a lack of awareness all around.

Just my two cents,
Tiger

PS I bet if you took a shot of heroin, you would experience
bliss! (not
that I’m suggesting you do) I believe it is just how human beings
are wired.
We’ve all got the same neurotransmitters, more or less.

Hi Tiger,

Well, I seem to recall, from the days when I used to go to
conferences and
stuff, that studies have shown that only a small percentage of
school kids
who used heroin developed a habit. (Howard Parker in Sheffield, or
something
like that, about 1000 individuals
studied). This is not quite the
same as
what you’re saying, I appreciate, but it shows that the drug of
itself is
not necessarily addicting. I don’t know if anyone knows what makes
a
difference but I’d be willing to bet that, psychologically, it
relates
strongly to “ego orientation” vs “underlying levels of feeling.”
If
you’ve
developed a self-image that requires you to repress more feelings
than the
endogenous opiates in your body can do, then taking heroin is
going
to make
you feel pretty good. I would personally say that this is very
likely one
psychological mechanism behind addiction. This would explain why
so
many
addicts do come from relatively high trauma backgrounds. For, as
kids, we
learn that to “get things” and to “be popular” we need to
be able to
keep
our feelings a bit under control, not just likely to collapse from
overfeeling at any time.

With bliss, (or anxiety for that matter), these are
experiential
things
and no neuroscientist can explain them beyond pointing a little at
things
that seem to be involved. What is clear is that the states are
relative to
one another. If you’re basically a happy person bliss is
inevitably
less
attractive than if you’re an anxious person.

About awareness, yes, I would love to force everyone to be more
aware!
And, inevitably, it doesn’t really work like that! But that’s my
position
anyway. What to do? Yes, compassion is needed, sometimes a lot of
it. Also,
all the power and control at times. I’m not so
busy with how I think
society
should be, or trying to like Understand the world, I just put my
position
out really. About choice, well, it seems like a great thing, for
sure, but
to me it’s a little the same as trying to push compassion at the
expense of
power. In philosophy or spirituality or whatever, some people
believe that
free will exists, others that the universe is entirely
deterministic. Who
the fuck knows? Both are cool viewpoints, and I personally
wouldn’t
just
want to just trapped in just one of them.

Is it cool to allow someone you care about to carry on fucking
their life
up because you believe so much in their free will? Not for me! I
like to
have the guts to take a position. And, to be honest, it’s a little

bit what
I miss in this list, where half the time everyone seems to be
talking it up
all nice but actually underneath there are shed-loads of feelings.
I
don’t
know if this says anything significant about ibogaine, or about
the
people
who are attracted to administering it, or what. But I notice it.

Nick

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands:
http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]

\]=———————————————————————=[/

With MSN Spaces email straight to your blog. Upload jokes, photos
and more. It’s free!

/]=———————————————————————=[
\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands:
http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]

\]=———————————————————————=[
/

/]=———————————————————————=[
\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands:
http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]

\]=———————————————————————=[
/

Be one of the first to try Windows Live Mail

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html
[%]

\]=———————————————————————=[/

Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. PC-to-Phone calls for ridiculously low rates.

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html
[%]

\]=———————————————————————=[/

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html
[%]

\]=———————————————————————=[/

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: jon@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] OT! Eating cattle or food
Date: April 5, 2006 at 4:05:29 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Well, ok… I’ll go through this point by point…

Not all plants feel pain, but some do… e.g., broccoli. Likewise, while
most animals do feel pain, not all do.. e.g. assorted types of shellfish.
Again, the line between plant and animal is not as clear cut as people
make it out to be.

As for the heart attacks, it is true that meat-eaters are more likely to
suffer from that, as well as from assorted food poisonings and infections
transmitted by tainted meat. But non-meat-eaters are more likely to suffer
from depression, anemia, and assorted other ailments. So, it’s a trade
off.

Your argument about our digestive system is completely off base. It’s
actually easier for humans (and other primates) to digest meat than to
digest plant matter. The main reason is that plant cells have tough cell
walls, while animal cells do not. Our digestive system is not set up to
get optimal nutrition from plants; for that we would need a digestive
system more similar to a cow (i.e., multiple stomachs, cud-chewing, longer
intenstines, etc.) This is why, for example, when you eat corn it comes
out whole at the other end. Humans are not especially good at digesting
most plant matter.

Based purely on our biology, humans are set up to be omnivores.  This is
because our digestive system has characterstics of both carnivores (e.g. a
single stomach and canines) and herbivores (e.g. molars). The length of
our digestive system is much shorter than that of pure herbivores, but
longer than that of pure carnivores. Optimal human nutrition is best
acheived by eating a balanced diet of animals and plants.

I do conceed that the way industrialised nations go about farming meat is
pretty brutal. But then, so is the way industrialised nations go about
farming plants as well.

And so is the way industrialised nations do most things, for that matter..

Hey–
Just wanted to say that, asides from clams or mussells maybe, plants do
not have a C>N>S and do not experience pain like animals, who have pain
receptors just like we do. Also, there are other reasons for not eating
meat: like health reasons…Meat eaters have about a 35-40% chance of
dying from a heart attack do their diet, while vegetarians only have
about 5% chance. That’s quite a difference.
Furthermore–yes, plants are alive! That’s the whole idea! You only
obtain true life energy from living things! The meat you eat has been
dead for God only knows how long, has very little nutritional value.
Also, because we have a digestive track that’s over 20 feet long,
alot of the meat you eat rots in your intestines, releasing all kinds
of nasty toxins. In addition, when animals are slaughtered in the
mass murder method we use, they’re not so stupid that they don’t know
what’s going on…Animals (just like the animal called a dog) are
very keen at sensing fear, not just within us, but within their own
ranks. As they approach their death, they are terrified, and release
a multitude of chemicals into their bloodstreams, which, when we eat,
have an effect on us…mainly anger and fear, which are closely
linked.
Well, I have to go…You have the choice to eat whatever you want..I
used to eat meat, and still do occasionally…but I swear to you that
I feel a hundred times lighter since I started eating less meat, and
alot more full of life. And if you don’t think I know what I’m talking
about, here a guy that was kinda smart, and his take on vegetarianism
vs. eating meat:
“Nothing will benefit health and increase the chances of survival of life
on Earth as the evoloution to a vegetarian diet..”—Albert Einstein.

From:  jon@mindvox.com
Reply-To:  ibogaine@mindvox.com
To:  ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject:  Re: [Ibogaine] OT! Eating cattle or food
Date:  Wed, 5 Apr 2006 14:24:56 -0400 (EDT)
potatoes have eyes too =P

i remember this punk song about how silly it is that vegetarians, for
example, don’t eat clams… because clams have essentially the same kind
of nervous system as broccoli and cauliflower…

the line between plant and animal is not an entirely clear one.. and the
decision to eat plants but not animals seems to me a pretty arbitrary
one.
plants are living, breathing, and to some degree, thinking creatures as
well. but they get no love from PETA…

i guess my basic point is.. eat whatever you’re  comfortable with. but
realise that whatever you eat, ANYTHING you eat, inflicts suffering on
some creature.

such is the nature of life.

ahaha… speaking of PETA, i saw the best bumper sticker a couple weeks
ago….eheh… it said:

“PETA – People Eating Tasty Animals”

=)

oh, and one more thing… as for the whole pet vs. food argument… i
know
for a fact that if my cat ever got the chance, he would totally eat me.
so
i don’t wanna hear it.. =P

for me eating meat in a society where it’s unnecessary merely promotes
the
fear/bloodthirsty addiction so prevalent in the Western world. I can
see
eating meat in a society where there are no alternatives, but where I
live
it’s easy to not eat meat, and I’m  glad.
I still do dairy and eggs, but can’t eat anything that might lick it’s
fellow beings, or nuzzle them, or communicate in any way, shape or
form
with
one another, even chickens (which I’ve been told are ok to eat because
“they’re stupid.” If that were the only criteria for being ok to eat,
I’d
be
a cannibal). Again, this is only my own viewpoint, but there seems to
be
something unenlightened, to me, how some folk can have “pets” but call
cattle mere “food,” making no connection to the living, breathing,
thinking
creatures sharing the planet with us.

Butt, and it’s a great big butt, I can’t really fault anyone for their
eating habits beyond stating how I personally feel, particularly about
factory farming, inhumane treatment of our “food” and the wonton
slaughter
of living creatures when it isn’t necessary for our survival, only to
feed
our addiction to blood and flesh these days (Of course one couuld take
this
to extreme and tell me plants are also living, but I limit my empathy
and
eating ban to beings with eys I guess).
That’s because I’m…pro-choice at heart.

—–
“If God dropped acid, would he see people?”  ~Steven Wright

Peace, love and lotsof respect.
Preston Peet
ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor Underground- the Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations,
Astonishing Archaeology and Hidden History
Editor Under the Influence- the  Disinformation Guide to Drugs
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Columnist HighTimes mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —–
From: Crooked Eye
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Tuesday, April 04, 2006 3:53 AM
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Whats a Republican?

Cow’s are tasty…  If we aren’t supposed to eat animals, then why are
they
made out of meat?  😀  I fail how to see eating cows equates to
racism…
I
eat a lot of cows, but I have a mixed family…  If it makes you feel
any
better we eat a lot of chickens, too..  I love turkey, the  tryptophan
makes
me sleepy…

Alan Hehe  wrote:
Don’t call me Baby…well, you can…since you’re not close enough
for
me
to do anything about it! Plus, that’s a freedom, too…Just like my
ability
to talk about pro-choice. As for your information, no, I don’t think
the
way
the abortion system is set up–but I absolutely believe in having the
right…And no, you don’t have 9 months to decide whether to have the
rug
rat or not–there is a cut-off, a limit to when abortions can be
performed.
And so you think, because cows aren’t pets, or aren’t ‘cute’,
then
it’s
okay to torture them?  And to cut the balls of bulls off without any
anesthetic? To make chickens live in a cage so small they can barely
turn
around? And George Bush–wanting to save lives! LOL! That’s the
biggest
joke
I’ve ever heard! But it figures; you’re not special..alot of the
people in
this country are brain-washed by the constant disinformation they are
fed….Why do you think there are a hundred commercials warning of the
dangers of marijuana, one of the least harmful drugs known to man, but
yet
maybe one out of those hundred about the truly dangerous drugs, like H
or
Coke?
And you don’t have to be a hindu to have compassion for animals
other
than cats and dogs, you dumb-ass red-neck! In some places  they eat
dogs…would that be okay if they ate your dog? You know, I’m totally
wasting my time talking to you, I can already tell that you are way
undereducated, extremely prejudiced. Cows are just food. Are blacks
just
niggers, too? God, I can’t stand fuckin’ red-necks like you,
especially
the
ones that actually think they’re smart. Once you start doing away with
freedoms, it’s all down-hill. Who’s going to decide what’s right and
wrong?
You?! I would happily put a hollow-point 45 shell into my head if that
possibility existed..of course G.W.B. is quite the redneck himself,
which
is
why you probably like him. First of all, HE’s not fighting for
anything. I
have respect for the soldiers; they don’t decide the mission,  they
just do
what they’re told. And how many babies do you think die while we were
waging
a war we were totally lied to about? Or is that okay? You think the
babies
over there even know what a terrorist is? This world is already
over-populated..if people like you ran things, the world would run out
of
resources within a decade! The oh so precious children! Everyone
starts
out
as a child..some people, like you, remain one, in their minds, their
whole
life. But those sweet children often grow up to be killers and
rapists,
and
often for no apparent reason!  Strong belief does only one thing:
close
your
mind. Boy, that ibogaine is gonna have fun with you!!!!! Cows are just
food!
Well, we’re  just food, too…if a grizzly decides you look good! God,
what
egotism!  You claim to be a Christian (I do not) but you must have
misssed
the part about not judging lest you be judged yourself…And I bet
ibo’s
gonna drive that one home with a psychoactive sledgehammer! You’ve got
your
response, but I really no longer wish to talk with you. I’ve spent too
much
time arguing with all the fascists on this list, instead of hanging
out
with
the cool, in the know ,people: by that meaning knowing that the whole
Govt.
is totally corrupt, actually controlled by a few wealthy and extremely
powerful people, and they constantly just feed us disinformation,
while
manipulating the world through economic control, etc, and alot  of
other
things you wouldn’t understand. BYE< NOW, Billy BOY. Go get a burger!

From:  “Billy J”
Reply-To:  ibogaine@mindvox.com
To:  ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject:  RE: [Ibogaine] Whats a Republican?
Date:  Tue, 04 Apr 2006 02:19:25 -0400
Hear this peace and take it to your Heart FRIEND.
1st if we go back to Killing kids for the sins of their fathers
(Child of a Rapist) Do you think that is more civilized then Raising
Cattle for food,(Cattle are food “not Pets”) although you may be
from India or somewhere that they worship your cows and even there
fecal matter I hear!  Now if your are at that junkger(Place) then I
will have to say -well Al, Bless you, but when was the last time you
had your precious cow go to war for YOUR FREEDOMS that I am sure you
are enjoying- Yes?
Allan , do you really love cows (the 4 legged ones that is) or
are you in your 2nd or 3rd reincarnation and you where once a cow
and you have come into this wierd mooing stage and you just could
not figure it out.
Ok That is sarcasm – Sorry< I’ll get serious.
Oh Ya Your aborting a fetus-, and yes I know that in the USof A
being the most civilized Nation that has usually voted anti-
Christian ( just in case somebody didn’t let Everybody do what FEELs
GOOD)
Ya you can Have sex with anybody you want and then if a girl gets
pregnant, or do you call it fetus something, oh well  so shes
pregnant you have 9 months to decide whether or not you what the
little BLOB Because your fetus can be kicking up a storm and as long
as you can keep its stupid( oh it,s brain isn’t functioning yet
,right) well as long as you can keep its head inside the grown up
fetus ( that would be the female, The pregnant one, knocked up one ,
dumb one what ever you would call someone like that ( Maybe MOM)
well just reach in and CRUSH ITS SCULL and or STICK A SYRINGE INTO
THe Back of it HEAD JUST UNTIL ITS STOPS PUTTINGN UP A FIGHT, AND
they do fight Allan, just go and ask your abortion doctor.–  PARTIAL
BIRTH ABORTION– VERY NICE–
oH YA AND YOU KNOW WHAT ALLY BABY THAT STUPID WAR MOGER THAT YOU
HAVE AS A PRESIDENT WOULD LIKE NOTHING MORE THAN TO SAVE PEOPLE BUT
ALL YOU PEOPLE THAT GOD GAVE YOU FREE CHOICE HAVE DECIDED TO VOTE
FOR THE REAL KILLERS-
Have you any clue how many of your fetuses are done away with
each year in the USA alone,, Allan Baby– way way more in 1 year
than have been killed in ALL the World wars— How many do you think
are rape and how many are just another form of birth control,, Your
Planned Parenthood is a multi-Billion dollar industry that fights
for you to have the freedom to get rid of your Babies- But They do
not do it for free– They  are rich.One more thing if we can justify
killing because you THINK they don’t feel pain- Why not line up all
us addicts right after a good whack and while we are feeling no pain
BANG-
Save a lot of tax dollars- The Meth Clinics would be Pissed though.

Love Ya!

Just Don’t say it is OK To Kill My Children- Or Yours

B

—-Original Message Follows—-
From: “Alan Hehe”
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] RE: [Pornography,psychology,Choice,force,) 2
cents
Date: Tue, 04 Apr 2006 01:25:21 -0400
MIME-Version:  1.0
Received: from tomts30-srv.bellnexxia.net ([209.226.175.104]) by
bay0-pamc1-f3.bay0.hotmail.com with Microsoft
SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Mon, 3 Apr 2006 22:27:22 -0700
Received: from toip4.bellnexxia.net ([209.226.175.87])          by
tomts30-srv.bellnexxia.net          (InterMail vM.5.01.06.13
201-253-122-130-113-20050324) with ESMTP          id

for ; Tue, 4 Apr 2006 01:27:21
-0400
Received: from  tanelorn.mindvox.com (HELO mail.mindvox.com)
([64.124.179.118])  by toip4.bellnexxia.net with ESMTP; 04 Apr 2006
01:27:16 -0400
Received: (qmail 1073 invoked by uid 513); 4 Apr 2006 01:27:15 -0400
Received: (qmail 1067 invoked by uid 514); 4 Apr 2006 01:27:15 -0400
X-Message-Info: moY6YVwXQ46hfM+PXD+r03SFMVOY3E1daJYU/Sm1Nkw=
Mailing-List: contact ibogaine-help@mindvox.com; run by ezmlm
Precedence: bulk
X-No-Archive: yes
List-Post:
List-Help:
List-Unsubscribe:
List-Subscribe:
Delivered-To: mailing list  ibogaine@mindvox.com
X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.1 required=4.0
X-Antivirus-MYDOMAIN-Mail-From: a.h.veil68@hotmail.com via
tanelorn.mindvox.com
X-Antivirus-MYDOMAIN: 1.25-st-qms
(Clear:RC:0(65.54.224.26):SA:0(-2.1/4.0):. Processed in 8.08646 secs
Process 1055)
Return-Path:
ibogaine-return-23280-billjohnson6=sympatico.ca@mindvox.com
X-OriginalArrivalTime: 04 Apr 2006 05:27:22.0868 (UTC)
FILETIME=[7363CB40:01C657A8]

I gotta take a piece of this one. Okay, Mr. Anti-choice, let me
ask you this: do you eat meat? If not, then good for you. If so,
have you ever though about the actual, truly painful, totally
inhumane treatment we put animals through? And usually don’t think
twice about it…It’s people like George Bush who make me wish
sometimes that God would hurl an asteroid at us! It’s “God forbid
one human foetus (who does not feel a thing if the abortion is done
in a timely manner, according to the latest research, because their
nervous system isn’t nearly fully developed) should perish, no
matter if it was caused by a rape or is probably going to be born
into alot of suffering–but while I’m on my high horse, cut me a
piece o that cow off and cook it up! It’s sheer egotism that we
believe that humans are so damned
important, but it’s okay if we torture animals, ruin the planet, and
make other people  adhere to our beliefs!!! We’re not that important!
And if you believe in a God and the soul, then you know that–if the
foetus even has a soul yet, which I don’t believe it does..I believe
the soul enters with the first breath, and leaves with the
last–that baby is just going back into the arms of God! There is no
death! And since they don’t experience pain, all it becomes is
something for people like you to feel self righteous about!
Personally, I think everyone should smoke pot, and would benefit
from it (except for a few cases), but how would you like it if I
MADE you smoke it? That is, if you don’t, and don’t like it. Or
let’s say you eat meat, but I think it’s just as evil to do that as
to allow abortions, so  I outlawed meat–would that be okay with you?
And the cliff analogy is just stupid–not
the same thing at all. But yes, I think if a person is truly
miserable, and wants to die, I would try to talk them out of it, but
I would never stop them by force. That’s called LACK OF FREEDOM. And
if we didn’t make mistakes, how would we ever learn? To be told
something is wrong is one thing..you can tell a person, fire will
burn you..but until they get burned, they will not truly understand,
and that’s what life is all about–learning. No, I don’t like to see
foetus’ abortions–I think prevention is the answer….But
sometimes, I believe it is ‘the best choice’. If everyone like you
had their way, there really would be NO  ROOM AT ALL left!!! We’re
already sooo over-populated! It’s like I heard some character say in
a movie recently..”everybody’s kids are so special…it makes you
wonder where all the normal adults come from”. Even God believes in
freedom of choice! That’s why he gave
us FREE WILL. You’re a Republican, aren’t you? And you probably
think that war-mongering asshole of a President is the best-thing
since sliced bread, eh? It’s okay to kill, as long as it’s not a
precious child…even though that child may grow up to be The Son of
Sam!  well…”take me by the ham, no good, no evil, no give a
damn!”  And the Govt. is lying to you! About just about everything.
Peace, love, and freedom. Life is too  mysterious to take it so
serious!

From:  “Billy J”
Reply-To:  ibogaine@mindvox.com
To:  ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject:  [Ibogaine] RE: [Pornography,psychology,Choice,force,) 2
cents
Date:  Sun, 02 Apr 2006 21:45:39 -0400
Well It sounds like this place is really mixing it up so I would
like to add a little REALITY TO YOU PRO CHOICERS, I am sure glad I
was not an abortion’ althought I have had my moments.
Yes My Mom was a young Mom and if she had a choice I think that I
would have no Grandkids,  or be babbleing on here.
I too have an attitude, It is about the only thing in this
world that I really have control over.
Tiger– How well did you do with making ALL your own Choices,
Instead of doing
what your were told to do? Not meant to be a shot
at you personally, but I am with the Right or Wrong crowd- No such
thing as grey.
I do know that some people may have grown up believing that
wrong
was right and right was wrong, but I Think that I pretty much knew
when I was stepping out of line and doing wrong.
It is (as most believe) My God , no not God, but My worldly given
Right- to do  wrong- It’s my life and if I want to screw it up then
stay out of my way. And you know what I had a lot of sooo called
friends that did just that WATCHED, AS i WAS Killing myself and
ruining a lot of lifes.
But O O O never no no no neverdare step on somebodys toes because
you know what they have a choice, Just like those poor little
Crack
%$^&amp;%$ Women that degrade themselves( and me
myself) due to
everybody. But Never No No Never dare tell somebody or force
someone
to get some help that they may never ever make it to on their own,
due to something called “Pride” “Shame” “Guilt”
Whatever holds them back. They may end up DEAD and it  would be
their
own fault, because you know how STRONG us druggies are, and if
that
person dies because he had a choice to get help and refused or
just
couldn’t make it on his/her own and needed YOU (of course they
didn’t tell you that).
I am sorry but I BELIEVE that if you Love Someone or even care a
little, and you see them walking off a cliff and YOU have an
opportunity to stop them, and you don’t- Can you truelly say it
was
their own fault?
Pornography- I never met too many Normal people that would find it
neccesary to take their
cloths off for the public to see. Totally
wrong  and if you had your own kids you might not think it too cool
having your buddy beating off while checking out your little girl.
Not nice eh Billy but P–sy T-ts are not meant for anyone except
who
they belong to and their mate.

Bye For Now, That stuff is about the biggest trigger going for any
downfall

Bill
—-Original Message Follows—-
From: “Nick Sandberg”
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To:
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Opiates
Date: Sun, 2 Apr 2006 10:24:07 +0100
MIME-Version: 1.0
Received: from tomts21-srv.bellnexxia.net ([209.226.175.183]) by
bay0-pamc1-f11.bay0.hotmail.com with Microsoft
SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Sun, 2 Apr 2006 05:38:59
-0700
Received: from toip5.bellnexxia.net ([209.226.175.88])          by
tomts21-srv.bellnexxia.net          (InterMail vM.5.01.06.13
201-253-122-130-113-20050324) with ESMTP          id

for ; Sun, 2 Apr 2006
08:38:58
-0400
Received: from tanelorn.mindvox.com (HELO mail.mindvox.com)
([64.124.179.118])  by toip5.bellnexxia.net with ESMTP; 02 Apr
2006
08:38:58 -0400
Received: (qmail 16967 invoked by uid 513); 2 Apr 2006 08:38:55
-0400
Received: (qmail 16961 invoked by uid
514); 2 Apr 2006 08:38:55
-0400
X-Message-Info: moY6YVwXQ44WAJnUvaOEtK2hXKGagKAsshDbZwj7pSc=
Mailing-List: contact ibogaine-help@mindvox.com; run by ezmlm
Precedence: bulk
X-No-Archive: yes
List-Post:
List-Help:
List-Unsubscribe:
List-Subscribe:
Delivered-To: mailing list ibogaine@mindvox.com
X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.3 required=4.0
X-Antivirus-MYDOMAIN-Mail-From: nick227@tiscali.co.uk via
tanelorn.mindvox.com
X-Antivirus-MYDOMAIN: 1.25-st-qms
(Clear:RC:0(212.74.114.37):SA:0(-2.3/4.0):. Processed in 2.781926
secs Process 16953)
X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true
X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result:
AQAAAJ0kL0SDE4UI
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.6604 (9.0.2911.0)
Return-Path:
ibogaine-return-23233-billjohnson6=sympatico.ca@mindvox.com
X-OriginalArrivalTime: 02 Apr 2006 12:38:59.0373 (UTC)
FILETIME=[6A155DD0:01C65652]

—–Original Message—–
From: Tiger Lisa [mailto:tigerlisa@gmail.com]
Sent: 01 April 2006 13:44
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Opiates

Dear Nick,
Here’ the part I don’t understand.

You wrote,
Personally, my position is…I think rising awareness is GOOD.
I
would
love to see more people in groups, going through their stuff,
becoming more
aware of their
personal interior dynamic, and moving forward in
life. But,
sadly, I’m not in a position to compel people to do this.

Why would you ever want to COMPEL anyone to do ANYTHING? Do you
really
believe that would be useful, effective, helpful? Do you think
people
actually benefit from, and grow from, being FORCED to do anything?

That is a parent-child model of interaction (and not a
particularly
skillful one, IMO),  and it’s going to reinforce childlike,
rebellious and
victim behavior (NOT self-awareness!) in the one so compelled, as
well as
reinforcing bullying behavior and disprespectful and righteous
attitudes
(NOT increased compassion or awareness) in the one doing the
compelling. A
“lose-lose” interaction–no one
wins!

Myself, I believe CHOICE is the name of the game. With choice
comes
responsibility, self-responsibility and a loss of the victim
consciousness
that drives continued reactive and unconscious behavior.

So in  a nutshell: Saying something (like awarenss) is GOOD is
one
thing,
but it’s a far cry from that to say,”And I’d love to FORCE you all
to be
more aware! too bad I can’t!” I think that is the essence of
what
*I* am
having a problem with. Yes, awareness is good. I agree. Yes, I’d
love to
live in a more aware society, umm hmm. Then I read the next
sentence
and I’m
brought up short.

We all need love, acceptance, compassion. Compassion is one of
the most
healing things
going! Power and control, on the other hand, just  get
people’s backs up, thrust them into dysfunctional modes of
thinking
and
perpetuate a lack of awareness all around.

Just my two cents,
Tiger

PS I bet if you took a shot of heroin, you would experience
bliss! (not
that I’m suggesting you do) I believe it is just how human beings
are wired.
We’ve all got the same neurotransmitters, more or less.

Hi Tiger,

Well, I seem to recall, from the days when I used to go to
conferences and
stuff, that studies have shown that only a small percentage of
school kids
who used heroin developed a habit. (Howard Parker in Sheffield, or
something
like that, about 1000 individuals
studied). This is not quite the
same as
what you’re saying, I appreciate, but it shows that the drug of
itself is
not necessarily addicting. I don’t know if anyone knows what makes
a
difference but I’d be willing to bet that, psychologically, it
relates
strongly to “ego orientation” vs “underlying levels of feeling.”
If
you’ve
developed a self-image that requires you to repress more  feelings
than the
endogenous opiates in your body can do, then taking heroin is
going
to make
you feel pretty good. I would personally say that this is very
likely one
psychological mechanism behind addiction. This would explain why
so
many
addicts do come from relatively high trauma backgrounds. For, as
kids, we
learn that to “get things” and to “be popular” we need to
be able to
keep
our feelings a bit under control, not just likely to collapse from
overfeeling at any time.

With bliss, (or anxiety for that matter),  these are
experiential
things
and no neuroscientist can explain them beyond pointing a little at
things
that seem to be involved. What is clear is that the states are
relative to
one another. If you’re basically a happy person bliss is
inevitably
less
attractive than if you’re an anxious person.

About awareness, yes, I would love to force everyone to be more
aware!
And, inevitably, it doesn’t really work like that! But that’s my
position
anyway. What to do? Yes, compassion is needed, sometimes a lot of
it. Also,
all the power and control at times. I’m not so
busy with how I think
society
should be, or trying to like Understand the world, I just put my
position
out really. About choice, well, it seems like a great thing, for
sure, but
to me it’s a little the same as trying to push compassion at the
expense of
power. In philosophy or spirituality or whatever, some people
believe that
free will exists, others that the universe is entirely
deterministic. Who
the fuck knows? Both are cool viewpoints, and I personally
wouldn’t
just
want to just trapped in just one of  them.

Is it cool to allow someone you care about to carry on fucking
their life
up because you believe so much in their free will? Not for me! I
like to
have the guts to take a position. And, to be honest, it’s a little

bit what
I miss in this list, where half the time everyone seems to be
talking it up
all nice but actually underneath there are shed-loads of feelings.
I
don’t
know if this says anything significant about ibogaine, or about
the
people
who are attracted to administering it, or what. But I notice it.

Nick

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands:
http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]

\]=———————————————————————=[/

With MSN Spaces email straight to your blog. Upload jokes, photos
and more. It’s free!

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List  Commands:
http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]

\]=———————————————————————=[/

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands:
http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]

\]=———————————————————————=[/

Be one of the first to try Windows Live Mail
/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands:
http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html
[%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. PC-to-Phone calls for ridiculously low
rates.

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands:
http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html
[%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands:
http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

Save time by starting a search from any Web page with the MSN Search
Toolbar-FREE!
/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands:
http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] Australian ibogaine article
Date: April 5, 2006 at 3:59:06 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Australian ibogaine article

http://www.melbourne.indymedia.org/news/2006/02/106537.php

From: “Alan Hehe” <a.h.veil68@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] OT! Eating cattle or food
Date: April 5, 2006 at 3:19:29 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hey–
Just wanted to say that, asides from clams or mussells maybe, plants do not have a C>N>S and do not experience pain like animals, who have pain receptors just like we do. Also, there are other reasons for not eating meat: like health reasons…Meat eaters have about a 35-40% chance of dying from a heart attack do their diet, while vegetarians only have about 5% chance. That’s quite a difference.
Furthermore–yes, plants are alive! That’s the whole idea! You only obtain true life energy from living things! The meat you eat has been dead for God only knows how long, has very little nutritional value. Also, because we have a digestive track that’s over 20 feet long, alot of the meat you eat rots in your intestines, releasing all kinds of nasty toxins. In addition, when animals are slaughtered in the mass murder method we use, they’re not so stupid that they don’t know what’s going on…Animals (just like the animal called a dog) are very keen at sensing fear, not just within us, but within their own ranks. As they approach their death, they are terrified, and release a multitude of chemicals into their bloodstreams, which, when we eat, have an effect on us…mainly anger and fear, which are closely linked.
Well, I have to go…You have the choice to eat whatever you want..I used to eat meat, and still do occasionally…but I swear to you that I feel a hundred times lighter since I started eating less meat, and alot more full of life. And if you don’t think I know what I’m talking about, here a guy that was kinda smart, and his take on vegetarianism vs. eating meat:
“Nothing will benefit health and increase the chances of survival of life on Earth as the evoloution to a vegetarian diet..”—Albert Einstein.

From:  jon@mindvox.com
Reply-To:  ibogaine@mindvox.com
To:  ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject:  Re: [Ibogaine] OT! Eating cattle or food
Date:  Wed, 5 Apr 2006 14:24:56 -0400 (EDT)
>potatoes have eyes too =P
>
>i remember this punk song about how silly it is that vegetarians, for
>example, don’t eat clams… because clams have essentially the same kind
>of nervous system as broccoli and cauliflower…
>
>the line between plant and animal is not an entirely clear one.. and the
>decision to eat plants but not animals seems to me a pretty arbitrary one.
>plants are living, breathing, and to some degree, thinking creatures as
>well. but they get no love from PETA…
>
>i guess my basic point is.. eat whatever you’re comfortable with. but
>realise that whatever you eat, ANYTHING you eat, inflicts suffering on
>some creature.
>
>such is the nature of life.
>
>
>ahaha… speaking of PETA, i saw the best bumper sticker a couple weeks
>ago….eheh… it said:
>
>”PETA – People Eating Tasty Animals”
>
>=)
>
>oh, and one more thing… as for the whole pet vs. food argument… i know
>for a fact that if my cat ever got the chance, he would totally eat me. so
>i don’t wanna hear it.. =P
>
>
> > for me eating meat in a society where it’s unnecessary merely promotes the
> > fear/bloodthirsty addiction so prevalent in the Western world. I can see
> > eating meat in a society where there are no alternatives, but where I live
> > it’s easy to not eat meat, and I’m glad.
> > I still do dairy and eggs, but can’t eat anything that might lick it’s
> > fellow beings, or nuzzle them, or communicate in any way, shape or form
> > with
> > one another, even chickens (which I’ve been told are ok to eat because
> > “they’re stupid.” If that were the only criteria for being ok to eat, I’d
> > be
> > a cannibal). Again, this is only my own viewpoint, but there seems to be
> > something unenlightened, to me, how some folk can have “pets” but call
> > cattle mere “food,” making no connection to the living, breathing,
> > thinking
> > creatures sharing the planet with us.
> >
> > Butt, and it’s a great big butt, I can’t really fault anyone for their
> > eating habits beyond stating how I personally feel, particularly about
> > factory farming, inhumane treatment of our “food” and the wonton slaughter
> > of living creatures when it isn’t necessary for our survival, only to feed
> > our addiction to blood and flesh these days (Of course one couuld take
> > this
> > to extreme and tell me plants are also living, but I limit my empathy and
> > eating ban to beings with eys I guess).
> >     That’s because I’m…pro-choice at heart.
> >
> > —–
> > “If God dropped acid, would he see people?”  ~Steven Wright
> >
> > Peace, love and lotsof respect.
> > Preston Peet
> > ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
> > Editor Underground- the Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations,
> > Astonishing Archaeology and Hidden History
> > Editor Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs
> > Editor http://www.drugwar.com
> > Columnist HighTimes mag/.com
> > Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
> > Columnist New York Waste
> > Etc.
> >
> > —– Original Message —–
> > From: Crooked Eye
> > To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
> > Sent: Tuesday, April 04, 2006 3:53 AM
> > Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Whats a Republican?
> >
> >
> > Cow’s are tasty…  If we aren’t supposed to eat animals, then why are
> > they
> > made out of meat?  😀  I fail how to see eating cows equates to racism…
> > I
> > eat a lot of cows, but I have a mixed family…  If it makes you feel any
> > better we eat a lot of chickens, too..  I love turkey, the tryptophan
> > makes
> > me sleepy…
> >
> > Alan Hehe <a.h.veil68@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >    Don’t call me Baby…well, you can…since you’re not close enough for
> > me
> > to do anything about it! Plus, that’s a freedom, too…Just like my
> > ability
> > to talk about pro-choice. As for your information, no, I don’t think the
> > way
> > the abortion system is set up–but I absolutely believe in having the
> > right…And no, you don’t have 9 months to decide whether to have the rug
> > rat or not–there is a cut-off, a limit to when abortions can be
> > performed.
> >      And so you think, because cows aren’t pets, or aren’t ‘cute’, then
> > it’s
> > okay to torture them? And to cut the balls of bulls off without any
> > anesthetic? To make chickens live in a cage so small they can barely turn
> > around? And George Bush–wanting to save lives! LOL! That’s the biggest
> > joke
> > I’ve ever heard! But it figures; you’re not special..alot of the people in
> > this country are brain-washed by the constant disinformation they are
> > fed….Why do you think there are a hundred commercials warning of the
> > dangers of marijuana, one of the least harmful drugs known to man, but yet
> > maybe one out of those hundred about the truly dangerous drugs, like H or
> > Coke?
> >        And you don’t have to be a hindu to have compassion for animals
> > other
> > than cats and dogs, you dumb-ass red-neck! In some places they eat
> > dogs…would that be okay if they ate your dog? You know, I’m totally
> > wasting my time talking to you, I can already tell that you are way
> > undereducated, extremely prejudiced. Cows are just food. Are blacks just
> > niggers, too? God, I can’t stand fuckin’ red-necks like you, especially
> > the
> > ones that actually think they’re smart. Once you start doing away with
> > freedoms, it’s all down-hill. Who’s going to decide what’s right and
> > wrong?
> > You?! I would happily put a hollow-point 45 shell into my head if that
> > possibility existed..of course G.W.B. is quite the redneck himself, which
> > is
> > why you probably like him. First of all, HE’s not fighting for anything. I
> > have respect for the soldiers; they don’t decide the mission, they just do
> > what they’re told. And how many babies do you think die while we were
> > waging
> > a war we were totally lied to about? Or is that okay? You think the babies
> > over there even know what a terrorist is? This world is already
> > over-populated..if people like you ran things, the world would run out of
> > resources within a decade! The oh so precious children! Everyone starts
> > out
> > as a child..some people, like you, remain one, in their minds, their whole
> > life. But those sweet children often grow up to be killers and rapists,
> > and
> > often for no apparent reason!  Strong belief does only one thing: close
> > your
> > mind. Boy, that ibogaine is gonna have fun with you!!!!! Cows are just
> > food!
> > Well, we’re just food, too…if a grizzly decides you look good! God, what
> > egotism!  You claim to be a Christian (I do not) but you must have misssed
> > the part about not judging lest you be judged yourself…And I bet ibo’s
> > gonna drive that one home with a psychoactive sledgehammer! You’ve got
> > your
> > response, but I really no longer wish to talk with you. I’ve spent too
> > much
> > time arguing with all the fascists on this list, instead of hanging out
> > with
> > the cool, in the know ,people: by that meaning knowing that the whole
> > Govt.
> > is totally corrupt, actually controlled by a few wealthy and extremely
> > powerful people, and they constantly just feed us disinformation, while
> > manipulating the world through economic control, etc, and alot of other
> > things you wouldn’t understand. BYE< NOW, Billy BOY. Go get a burger!
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > From:  “Billy J” <billjohnson6@sympatico.ca>
> > Reply-To:  ibogaine@mindvox.com
> > To:  ibogaine@mindvox.com
> > Subject:  RE: [Ibogaine] Whats a Republican?
> > Date:  Tue, 04 Apr 2006 02:19:25 -0400
> >>Hear this peace and take it to your Heart FRIEND.
> >>1st if we go back to Killing kids for the sins of their fathers
> >>(Child of a Rapist) Do you think that is more civilized then Raising
> >>Cattle for food,(Cattle are food “not Pets”) although you may be
> >>from India or somewhere that they worship your cows and even there
> >>fecal matter I hear! Now if your are at that junkger(Place) then I
> >>will have to say -well Al, Bless you, but when was the last time you
> >>had your precious cow go to war for YOUR FREEDOMS that I am sure you
> >>are enjoying- Yes?
> >>   Allan , do you really love cows (the 4 legged ones that is) or
> >>are you in your 2nd or 3rd reincarnation and you where once a cow
> >>and you have come into this wierd mooing stage and you just could
> >>not figure it out.
> >>  Ok That is sarcasm – Sorry< I’ll get serious.
> >>Oh Ya Your aborting a fetus-, and yes I know that in the USof A
> >>being the most civilized Nation that has usually voted anti-
> >>Christian ( just in case somebody didn’t let Everybody do what FEELs
> >>GOOD)
> >>Ya you can Have sex with anybody you want and then if a girl gets
> >>pregnant, or do you call it fetus something, oh well  so shes
> >>pregnant you have 9 months to decide whether or not you what the
> >>little BLOB Because your fetus can be kicking up a storm and as long
> >>as you can keep its stupid( oh it,s brain isn’t functioning yet
> >>,right) well as long as you can keep its head inside the grown up
> >>fetus ( that would be the female, The pregnant one, knocked up one ,
> >>dumb one what ever you would call someone like that ( Maybe MOM)
> >>well just reach in and CRUSH ITS SCULL and or STICK A SYRINGE INTO
> >>THe Back of it HEAD JUST UNTIL ITS STOPS PUTTINGN UP A FIGHT, AND
> >>they do fight Allan, just go and ask your abortion doctor.– PARTIAL
> >>BIRTH ABORTION– VERY NICE–
> >>  oH YA AND YOU KNOW WHAT ALLY BABY THAT STUPID WAR MOGER THAT YOU
> >>HAVE AS A PRESIDENT WOULD LIKE NOTHING MORE THAN TO SAVE PEOPLE BUT
> >>ALL YOU PEOPLE THAT GOD GAVE YOU FREE CHOICE HAVE DECIDED TO VOTE
> >>FOR THE REAL KILLERS-
> >>   Have you any clue how many of your fetuses are done away with
> >>each year in the USA alone,, Allan Baby– way way more in 1 year
> >>than have been killed in ALL the World wars— How many do you think
> >>are rape and how many are just another form of birth control,, Your
> >>Planned Parenthood is a multi-Billion dollar industry that fights
> >>for you to have the freedom to get rid of your Babies- But They do
> >>not do it for free– They are rich.One more thing if we can justify
> >>killing because you THINK they don’t feel pain- Why not line up all
> >>us addicts right after a good whack and while we are feeling no pain
> >>BANG-
> >>Save a lot of tax dollars- The Meth Clinics would be Pissed though.
> >>
> >>Love Ya!
> >>
> >>Just Don’t say it is OK To Kill My Children- Or Yours
> >>
> >>B
> >>
> >>—-Original Message Follows—-
> >>From: “Alan Hehe” <a.h.veil68@hotmail.com>
> >>Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
> >>To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
> >>Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] RE: [Pornography,psychology,Choice,force,) 2
> >>cents
> >>Date: Tue, 04 Apr 2006 01:25:21 -0400
> >>MIME-Version: 1.0
> >>Received: from tomts30-srv.bellnexxia.net ([209.226.175.104]) by
> >>bay0-pamc1-f3.bay0.hotmail.com with Microsoft
> >>SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Mon, 3 Apr 2006 22:27:22 -0700
> >>Received: from toip4.bellnexxia.net ([209.226.175.87])          by
> >>tomts30-srv.bellnexxia.net          (InterMail vM.5.01.06.13
> >>201-253-122-130-113-20050324) with ESMTP          id
> >><20060404052721.IXFI18550.tomts30-srv.bellnexxia.net@toip4.bellnexxia.net>
> >>          for <billjohnson6@sympatico.ca>; Tue, 4 Apr 2006 01:27:21
> >>-0400
> >>Received: from tanelorn.mindvox.com (HELO mail.mindvox.com)
> >>([64.124.179.118])  by toip4.bellnexxia.net with ESMTP; 04 Apr 2006
> >>01:27:16 -0400
> >>Received: (qmail 1073 invoked by uid 513); 4 Apr 2006 01:27:15 -0400
> >>Received: (qmail 1067 invoked by uid 514); 4 Apr 2006 01:27:15 -0400
> >>X-Message-Info: moY6YVwXQ46hfM+PXD+r03SFMVOY3E1daJYU/Sm1Nkw=
> >>Mailing-List: contact ibogaine-help@mindvox.com; run by ezmlm
> >>Precedence: bulk
> >>X-No-Archive: yes
> >>List-Post: <mailto:ibogaine@mindvox.com>
> >>List-Help: <mailto:ibogaine-help@mindvox.com>
> >>List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:ibogaine-unsubscribe@mindvox.com>
> >>List-Subscribe: <mailto:ibogaine-subscribe@mindvox.com>
> >>Delivered-To: mailing list ibogaine@mindvox.com
> >>X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.1 required=4.0
> >>X-Antivirus-MYDOMAIN-Mail-From: a.h.veil68@hotmail.com via
> >>tanelorn.mindvox.com
> >>X-Antivirus-MYDOMAIN: 1.25-st-qms
> >>(Clear:RC:0(65.54.224.26):SA:0(-2.1/4.0):. Processed in 8.08646 secs
> >>Process 1055)
> >>Return-Path:
> >>ibogaine-return-23280-billjohnson6=sympatico.ca@mindvox.com
> >>X-OriginalArrivalTime: 04 Apr 2006 05:27:22.0868 (UTC)
> >>FILETIME=[7363CB40:01C657A8]
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>   I gotta take a piece of this one. Okay, Mr. Anti-choice, let me
> >>ask you this: do you eat meat? If not, then good for you. If so,
> >>have you ever though about the actual, truly painful, totally
> >>inhumane treatment we put animals through? And usually don’t think
> >>twice about it…It’s people like George Bush who make me wish
> >>sometimes that God would hurl an asteroid at us! It’s “God forbid
> >>one human foetus (who does not feel a thing if the abortion is done
> >>in a timely manner, according to the latest research, because their
> >>nervous system isn’t nearly fully developed) should perish, no
> >>matter if it was caused by a rape or is probably going to be born
> >>into alot of suffering–but while I’m on my high horse, cut me a
> >>piece o that cow off and cook it up! It’s sheer egotism that we
> >>believe that humans are so damned
> >>important, but it’s okay if we torture animals, ruin the planet, and
> >>make other people adhere to our beliefs!!! We’re not that important!
> >>And if you believe in a God and the soul, then you know that–if the
> >>foetus even has a soul yet, which I don’t believe it does..I believe
> >>the soul enters with the first breath, and leaves with the
> >>last–that baby is just going back into the arms of God! There is no
> >>death! And since they don’t experience pain, all it becomes is
> >>something for people like you to feel self righteous about!
> >>Personally, I think everyone should smoke pot, and would benefit
> >>from it (except for a few cases), but how would you like it if I
> >>MADE you smoke it? That is, if you don’t, and don’t like it. Or
> >>let’s say you eat meat, but I think it’s just as evil to do that as
> >>to allow abortions, so I outlawed meat–would that be okay with you?
> >>And the cliff analogy is just stupid–not
> >>the same thing at all. But yes, I think if a person is truly
> >>miserable, and wants to die, I would try to talk them out of it, but
> >>I would never stop them by force. That’s called LACK OF FREEDOM. And
> >>if we didn’t make mistakes, how would we ever learn? To be told
> >>something is wrong is one thing..you can tell a person, fire will
> >>burn you..but until they get burned, they will not truly understand,
> >>and that’s what life is all about–learning. No, I don’t like to see
> >>foetus’ abortions–I think prevention is the answer….But
> >>sometimes, I believe it is ‘the best choice’. If everyone like you
> >>had their way, there really would be NO ROOM AT ALL left!!! We’re
> >>already sooo over-populated! It’s like I heard some character say in
> >>a movie recently..”everybody’s kids are so special…it makes you
> >>wonder where all the normal adults come from”. Even God believes in
> >>freedom of choice! That’s why he gave
> >>us FREE WILL. You’re a Republican, aren’t you? And you probably
> >>think that war-mongering asshole of a President is the best-thing
> >>since sliced bread, eh? It’s okay to kill, as long as it’s not a
> >>precious child…even though that child may grow up to be The Son of
> >>Sam!  well…”take me by the ham, no good, no evil, no give a
> >>damn!”  And the Govt. is lying to you! About just about everything.
> >>Peace, love, and freedom. Life is too mysterious to take it so
> >>serious!
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>From:  “Billy J” <billjohnson6@sympatico.ca>
> >>Reply-To:  ibogaine@mindvox.com
> >>To:  ibogaine@mindvox.com
> >>Subject:  [Ibogaine] RE: [Pornography,psychology,Choice,force,) 2
> >>cents
> >>Date:  Sun, 02 Apr 2006 21:45:39 -0400
> >> >Well It sounds like this place is really mixing it up so I would
> >> >like to add a little REALITY TO YOU PRO CHOICERS, I am sure glad I
> >> >was not an abortion’ althought I have had my moments.
> >> >Yes My Mom was a young Mom and if she had a choice I think that I
> >> >would have no Grandkids, or be babbleing on here.
> >> >     I too have an attitude, It is about the only thing in this
> >> >world that I really have control over.
> >> >Tiger– How well did you do with making ALL your own Choices,
> >> >Instead of doing
> >>what your were told to do? Not meant to be a shot
> >> >at you personally, but I am with the Right or Wrong crowd- No such
> >> >thing as grey.
> >> >   I do know that some people may have grown up believing that
> >>wrong
> >> >was right and right was wrong, but I Think that I pretty much knew
> >> >when I was stepping out of line and doing wrong.
> >> >It is (as most believe) My God , no not God, but My worldly given
> >> >Right- to do wrong- It’s my life and if I want to screw it up then
> >> >stay out of my way. And you know what I had a lot of sooo called
> >> >friends that did just that WATCHED, AS i WAS Killing myself and
> >> >ruining a lot of lifes.
> >> >But O O O never no no no neverdare step on somebodys toes because
> >> >you know what they have a choice, Just like those poor little
> >>Crack
> >> >%$^&%$ Women that degrade themselves( and me
> >>myself) due to
> >> >everybody. But Never No No Never dare tell somebody or force
> >>someone
> >> >to get some help that they may never ever make it to on their own,
> >> >due to something called “Pride” “Shame” “Guilt”
> >> >Whatever holds them back. They may end up DEAD and it would be
> >>their
> >> >own fault, because you know how STRONG us druggies are, and if
> >>that
> >> >person dies because he had a choice to get help and refused or
> >>just
> >> >couldn’t make it on his/her own and needed YOU (of course they
> >> >didn’t tell you that).
> >> >I am sorry but I BELIEVE that if you Love Someone or even care a
> >> >little, and you see them walking off a cliff and YOU have an
> >> >opportunity to stop them, and you don’t- Can you truelly say it
> >>was
> >> >their own fault?
> >> >Pornography- I never met too many Normal people that would find it
> >> >neccesary to take their
> >>cloths off for the public to see. Totally
> >> >wrong and if you had your own kids you might not think it too cool
> >> >having your buddy beating off while checking out your little girl.
> >> >Not nice eh Billy but P–sy T-ts are not meant for anyone except
> >>who
> >> >they belong to and their mate.
> >> >
> >> >Bye For Now, That stuff is about the biggest trigger going for any
> >> >downfall
> >> >
> >> >Bill
> >> >—-Original Message Follows—-
> >> >From: “Nick Sandberg” <nick227@tiscali.co.uk>
> >> >Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
> >> >To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
> >> >Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Opiates
> >> >Date: Sun, 2 Apr 2006 10:24:07 +0100
> >> >MIME-Version: 1.0
> >> >Received: from tomts21-srv.bellnexxia.net ([209.226.175.183]) by
> >> >bay0-pamc1-f11.bay0.hotmail.com with Microsoft
> >> >SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Sun, 2 Apr 2006 05:38:59
> >>-0700
> >> >Received: from toip5.bellnexxia.net ([209.226.175.88])          by
> >> >tomts21-srv.bellnexxia.net          (InterMail vM.5.01.06.13
> >> >201-253-122-130-113-20050324) with ESMTP          id
> >> ><20060402123858.HZPV14030.tomts21-srv.bellnexxia.net@toip5.bellnexxia.net>
> >> >          for <billjohnson6@sympatico.ca>; Sun, 2 Apr 2006
> >>08:38:58
> >> >-0400
> >> >Received: from tanelorn.mindvox.com (HELO mail.mindvox.com)
> >> >([64.124.179.118])  by toip5.bellnexxia.net with ESMTP; 02 Apr
> >>2006
> >> >08:38:58 -0400
> >> >Received: (qmail 16967 invoked by uid 513); 2 Apr 2006 08:38:55
> >> >-0400
> >> >Received: (qmail 16961 invoked by uid
> >>514); 2 Apr 2006 08:38:55
> >> >-0400
> >> >X-Message-Info: moY6YVwXQ44WAJnUvaOEtK2hXKGagKAsshDbZwj7pSc=
> >> >Mailing-List: contact ibogaine-help@mindvox.com; run by ezmlm
> >> >Precedence: bulk
> >> >X-No-Archive: yes
> >> >List-Post: <mailto:ibogaine@mindvox.com>
> >> >List-Help: <mailto:ibogaine-help@mindvox.com>
> >> >List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:ibogaine-unsubscribe@mindvox.com>
> >> >List-Subscribe: <mailto:ibogaine-subscribe@mindvox.com>
> >> >Delivered-To: mailing list ibogaine@mindvox.com
> >> >X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.3 required=4.0
> >> >X-Antivirus-MYDOMAIN-Mail-From: nick227@tiscali.co.uk via
> >> >tanelorn.mindvox.com
> >> >X-Antivirus-MYDOMAIN: 1.25-st-qms
> >> >(Clear:RC:0(212.74.114.37):SA:0(-2.3/4.0):. Processed in 2.781926
> >> >secs Process 16953)
> >> >X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true
> >> >X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result:
> >>AQAAAJ0kL0SDE4UI
> >> >X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.6604 (9.0.2911.0)
> >> >Return-Path:
> >> >ibogaine-return-23233-billjohnson6=sympatico.ca@mindvox.com
> >> >X-OriginalArrivalTime: 02 Apr 2006 12:38:59.0373 (UTC)
> >> >FILETIME=[6A155DD0:01C65652]
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >   —–Original Message—–
> >> >   From: Tiger Lisa [mailto:tigerlisa@gmail.com]
> >> >   Sent: 01 April 2006 13:44
> >> >   To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
> >> >   Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Opiates
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >   Dear Nick,
> >> >   Here’ the part I don’t understand.
> >> >
> >> >   You wrote,
> >> >   Personally, my position is…I think rising awareness is GOOD.
> >>I
> >> >would
> >> >love to see more people in groups, going through their stuff,
> >> >becoming more
> >> >aware of their
> >>personal interior dynamic, and moving forward in
> >> >life. But,
> >> >sadly, I’m not in a position to compel people to do this.
> >> >
> >> >   Why would you ever want to COMPEL anyone to do ANYTHING? Do you
> >> >really
> >> >believe that would be useful, effective, helpful? Do you think
> >> >people
> >> >actually benefit from, and grow from, being FORCED to do anything?
> >> >
> >> >   That is a parent-child model of interaction (and not a
> >> >particularly
> >> >skillful one, IMO), and it’s going to reinforce childlike,
> >> >rebellious and
> >> >victim behavior (NOT self-awareness!) in the one so compelled, as
> >> >well as
> >> >reinforcing bullying behavior and disprespectful and righteous
> >> >attitudes
> >> >(NOT increased compassion or awareness) in the one doing the
> >> >compelling. A
> >> >”lose-lose” interaction–no one
> >>wins!
> >> >
> >> >   Myself, I believe CHOICE is the name of the game. With choice
> >> >comes
> >> >responsibility, self-responsibility and a loss of the victim
> >> >consciousness
> >> >that drives continued reactive and unconscious behavior.
> >> >
> >> >   So in a nutshell: Saying something (like awarenss) is GOOD is
> >>one
> >> >thing,
> >> >but it’s a far cry from that to say,”And I’d love to FORCE you all
> >> >to be
> >> >more aware! too bad I can’t!” I think that is the essence of
> >>what
> >> >*I* am
> >> >having a problem with. Yes, awareness is good. I agree. Yes, I’d
> >> >love to
> >> >live in a more aware society, umm hmm. Then I read the next
> >>sentence
> >> >and I’m
> >> >brought up short.
> >> >
> >> >   We all need love, acceptance, compassion. Compassion is one of
> >> >the most
> >> >healing things
> >>going! Power and control, on the other hand, just get
> >> >people’s backs up, thrust them into dysfunctional modes of
> >>thinking
> >> >and
> >> >perpetuate a lack of awareness all around.
> >> >
> >> >   Just my two cents,
> >> >   Tiger
> >> >
> >> >   PS I bet if you took a shot of heroin, you would experience
> >> >bliss! (not
> >> >that I’m suggesting you do) I believe it is just how human beings
> >> >are wired.
> >> >We’ve all got the same neurotransmitters, more or less.
> >> >
> >> >   Hi Tiger,
> >> >
> >> >   Well, I seem to recall, from the days when I used to go to
> >> >conferences and
> >> >stuff, that studies have shown that only a small percentage of
> >> >school kids
> >> >who used heroin developed a habit. (Howard Parker in Sheffield, or
> >> >something
> >> >like that, about 1000 individuals
> >>studied). This is not quite the
> >> >same as
> >> >what you’re saying, I appreciate, but it shows that the drug of
> >> >itself is
> >> >not necessarily addicting. I don’t know if anyone knows what makes
> >>a
> >> >difference but I’d be willing to bet that, psychologically, it
> >> >relates
> >> >strongly to “ego orientation” vs “underlying levels of feeling.”
> >>If
> >> >you’ve
> >> >developed a self-image that requires you to repress more feelings
> >> >than the
> >> >endogenous opiates in your body can do, then taking heroin is
> >>going
> >> >to make
> >> >you feel pretty good. I would personally say that this is very
> >> >likely one
> >> >psychological mechanism behind addiction. This would explain why
> >>so
> >> >many
> >> >addicts do come from relatively high trauma backgrounds. For, as
> >> >kids, we
> >> >learn that to “get things” and to “be popular” we need to
> >>be able to
> >> >keep
> >> >our feelings a bit under control, not just likely to collapse from
> >> >overfeeling at any time.
> >> >
> >> >   With bliss, (or anxiety for that matter), these are
> >>experiential
> >> >things
> >> >and no neuroscientist can explain them beyond pointing a little at
> >> >things
> >> >that seem to be involved. What is clear is that the states are
> >> >relative to
> >> >one another. If you’re basically a happy person bliss is
> >>inevitably
> >> >less
> >> >attractive than if you’re an anxious person.
> >> >
> >> >   About awareness, yes, I would love to force everyone to be more
> >> >aware!
> >> >And, inevitably, it doesn’t really work like that! But that’s my
> >> >position
> >> >anyway. What to do? Yes, compassion is needed, sometimes a lot of
> >> >it. Also,
> >> >all the power and control at times. I’m not so
> >>busy with how I think
> >> >society
> >> >should be, or trying to like Understand the world, I just put my
> >> >position
> >> >out really. About choice, well, it seems like a great thing, for
> >> >sure, but
> >> >to me it’s a little the same as trying to push compassion at the
> >> >expense of
> >> >power. In philosophy or spirituality or whatever, some people
> >> >believe that
> >> >free will exists, others that the universe is entirely
> >> >deterministic. Who
> >> >the fuck knows? Both are cool viewpoints, and I personally
> >>wouldn’t
> >> >just
> >> >want to just trapped in just one of them.
> >> >
> >> >   Is it cool to allow someone you care about to carry on fucking
> >> >their life
> >> >up because you believe so much in their free will? Not for me! I
> >> >like to
> >> >have the guts to take a position. And, to be honest, it’s a little
> >>
> >> >bit what
> >> >I miss in this list, where half the time everyone seems to be
> >> >talking it up
> >> >all nice but actually underneath there are shed-loads of feelings.
> >>I
> >> >don’t
> >> >know if this says anything significant about ibogaine, or about
> >>the
> >> >people
> >> >who are attracted to administering it, or what. But I notice it.
> >> >
> >> >   Nick
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >/]=———————————————————————=[\
> >> >[%] Ibogaine List Commands:
> >> >http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
> >> >
> >> >\]=———————————————————————=[/
> >> >
> >> >
> >>
> >>  With MSN Spaces email straight to your blog. Upload jokes, photos
> >>and more. It’s free!
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>/]=———————————————————————=[\
> >>  [%] Ibogaine List Commands:
> >>http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
> >>
> >>\]=———————————————————————=[/
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>/]=———————————————————————=[\
> >>[%] Ibogaine List Commands:
> >>http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
> >>
> >>\]=———————————————————————=[/
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Be one of the first to try Windows Live Mail
> > /]=———————————————————————=[\
> > [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html
> > [%]
> > \]=———————————————————————=[/
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. PC-to-Phone calls for ridiculously low rates.
> >
> >
> >
> >   /]=———————————————————————=[\
> >  [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html
> > [%]
> >   \]=———————————————————————=[/
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>   /]=———————————————————————=[\
>  [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
>   \]=———————————————————————=[/
>
>

Save time by starting a search from any Web page with the MSN Search Toolbar-FREE! /]=———————————————————————=[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%] \]=———————————————————————=[/

From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] new research paper
Date: April 5, 2006 at 3:13:58 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

GDNF and Addiction
Dorit Ron and Patricia H. Janak
Reviews in the Neurosciences, 16,277-285 (2005)

See excerpt below.

GDNF MEDIATES THE DESIRABLE ACTIVITIES
OF THE ANTI-ADDICTION DRUG, IBOGAINE

If GDNF counteracts biochemical and behavioral
neuroadaptation to drugs of abuse, then it
could potentially be a useful drug target for antiaddiction
medication development. Support for this
possibility stems from a recent study in which we
found that the anti-addiction drug ibogaine reduces
alcohol consumption via activation of the GDNF
pathway 1351.
For the past 30 years, ibogaine, a natural
alkaloid found in the root bark of the African shrub
Tabernanthe iboga, has attracted interest for its
purported efficacy in reversing addiction to
multiple drugs of abuse including alcohol /27,49,
6 11. Anecdotal reports of effects in humans indicate
that ibogaine reduces craving and withdrawal
, symptoms 12,731. Animal studies also suggest that
ibogaine attenuates drug- and alcohol-induced
behaviors. For example, ibogaine reduces heroin
operant self-administration 1161, and naloxoneprecipitated
withdrawal in morphine-dependent rats
I1 1,281. Ibogaine also decreases cocaine-induced
locomotor activity and self-administration in rats
I101 and mice 170,711. Similar results have been
reported for ibogaine’s activities on alcohol intake
in a two-bottle choice paradigm 135,631. We
showed that systemic administration of ibogaine
reduces operant self-administration of alcohol in
rats 13.51, as well as the binge drinking that occurs
after a period of abstinence, demonstrating ibogaine’s
efficacy in a relapse model 1351. Importantly,
we found that the VTA is a site of action for
ibogaine’s reduction of alcohol self-administration,
and that a concentration of ibogaine that decreases
alcohol consumption also increases GDNF expression
in the midbrain of rodents 1351. We therefore
tested whether GDNF mediates the activities of
ibogaine, first in cells in culture, and then in vivo.
We used the DAergic-like SHSYSY cell line to
demonstrate that ibogaine exposure results in
increased expression of GDNF and increased
activation of the GDNF signaling cascade via the
activation of the Ret receptor 1351. Finally, we
showed that delivery of inhibitory antibodies
against GDNF into the VTA attenuated ibogaine’s
decrease of alcohol operant self-administration in
rats 1351. Because it is known that GDNF can alter
the VTA-dependent biochemical and behavioral
effects of cocaine and morphine (see above), the
evidence as a whole suggests that ibogaine reduces
self-administration of multiple drugs of abuse via
GDNF.

From: “Alan Hehe” <a.h.veil68@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Pot calling the Kettle Black?
Date: April 5, 2006 at 2:51:19 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hey Randy,
I didn’t judge Bill by where he came from–I don’t even know…I just judged him by what he wrote. But perhaps you are right. I’ve met many highly intelligent people from the south, so it has nothing to do with that..Hell, I’m originally from Indiana, so I could be called a hick…though I never have been. But small town Indiana natives have a hard time understanding people who love to read…kinda like Nick, whi I think doesn’t read because he might come across something that both made sense AND wasn’t in agreement with what he believes–whatever that is… He’s always complaining about people just reacting and never listening to what he says…So I politely asked him to explain his basic beliefs, and he just put down some of my ideas without expressing any of his own. I’m thru with debating with him…And my opinion of his I>Q has fallen several degrees…not that I think that you need to be intelligent to be a good person, or even to know what’s going on…I actually put more faith in intuition than I do in tradition intelligence.
I thin you offered some good advice…your mother was be proud of you, since she likes intelligence…You seem to have both a good heart and a good head on your shoulders……..Peace!
Oh–one more thing..I don’t think G.W.B. is nearly as stupid as he puts on…although I think he’s faaarrrr from being truly intelligent or wise, I think a part of his stupidy is an act, to endear him to the hearts of Americans, who are one of the most undereducated people-considering our influence, power, and position in the world…Unlike you, I have no sympathy for the man.
Also, if you really think about America’s continuence, and leader, of the War on (some) Drugs, despite endless research published in many Govt. documents stating that the War is doing WAY more harm than what it’s helping, and recommending that at least Marijuana (which has been proven by many studies, many of them Govt funded, to be one of the least harmful drugs in existence) be decriminalized…When you also take into consideration that Marijuana is their target drug (one Govt. employed Doctor or Drug Zsar, I can’t remember which, even went as far to say that Marijuana was the most dangerous drug in existence, totally worse than heroin or cocaine!!??) and that the Country is losing billions of dollars a year (despite them taking people’s homes and cars and such) on this War, and that, while World Leaders from other Countries around the world are finally beginning to see the light, and look for alternatives, like decriminalization or controlled legalization–which would destroy the blck market, eliminate the opportunity to make millions off the prohibited drugs for drug dealers (who will sell to minors..drug dealers don’t card their customers…and while I believe responsible adults should have the choice to choose pot over alcohol without risking prison, I am strongly against minors using the drug, while their brains are still developing….When you take all this into consideration, the answer one is left with is damn scary…a wise man (though I can’t remember who at the moment) once said: when you have elliminated all the impossible explanations, what you are left with, no matter how improbable, is the truth….which, in the this case means–since The Country of the U.S is losing billions a year, must mean that, those who are truly in charge, must be making a KILLING!! IMO, they have no interest in winning the war on drugs–not the true people in power–but merely perpetuating it forever….And believe me, I usually do not subscribe to conspiracy theories, but in this case, I’ve changed my mind and now am certain–IMO–that a group like the “illuminati” are the real rulers of the Governments, and therefore, the world. I don’t think they call themselves “the illumianti,” or have candlit, secret meeting in old churches…but I believe they do exist, a small group of the wealthiest and most influention people in the world, manipulating world events thru economic means, disinformation, the media, and a little old-fashioned black-mail here and there…I truly believe this group exists and basicslly control most of what goes on in the world, without ever revealing their hand, because they use the “puppet Governments” to do this. I have no doubt that G.W.’s father is part of this group…as to the rest…Well, any of the Rockefellers would be good canidates….but here I’m just speculating…but when you really think about it, it’s the only scenario that makes any sense….
Sorry to write such a long-ass e-mail. I admit being guilty of over-doing it this time…but, oh well…I’m only human..or AM I?????    LOL! …………..take care, my friend….Sincerely, Alan.
From:  biscuitboy714@aol.com
Reply-To:  ibogaine@mindvox.com
To:  ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject:  Re: [Ibogaine] Pot calling the Kettle Black?
Date:  Wed, 05 Apr 2006 09:35:55 -0400
>Alan, I was told one time to never judge a book by it’s cover, and I
>try and live by that. I’m 48 years old and from the south. Kentucky.
>I’m living in NYC for the time being, working and doing therapy.
>I’ve been called a red neck, and I’ve been called a free thinkin’
>hippie too. Well in the 70’s anyway. I think maybe you are too quick
>to judge Bill. People in the south are loyal to the bone. I’m the
>same way, I just pick who to be loyal to very carefully. I feel
>sorry for George Bush. He’s an idiot amongst giants. I hate what
>they are doing. I’m pro freedom. Whatever that means to each person.
>Fuck it, I don’t care what people do but I like to hear about it
>just for shits and giggles so to speak. I think you should stay on
>the list and laugh at what is funny, delete what bores you, and
>reply to what you are passionate about. Works for me. And on another
>note……….I’m reading Phillip K Dick and Henry Miller at the
>same time. Will my brain explode?                “Free your mind and
>your ass will follow”   (George Clinton)                     Randy
>
>—–Original Message—–
>From: Alan Hehe <a.h.veil68@hotmail.com>
>To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
>Sent: Wed, 05 Apr 2006 03:05:04 -0400
>Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Pot calling the Kettle Black?
>
>       Hey Randy..this list is so screwed, so you probably never got
>the post, but I apologized to you days ago, about the
>misunderstanding with your mother…who I had no idea really WAS
>your mother, or I probably wouldn’t have said anything, or if I did,
>it wouldn’t have been as caustic…Actually, I HAVE totally chilled
>out–by just staying away from this list, and all the posts, which I
>can’t seem to delete…they go away, and then come right back again!
>The thing with Nick really was a debate that just got a little too
>heated, and I even said I was sorry to him…though I may regret
>it–but I hope not. The only person that has REALLY pissed me off is
>that redneck Billy Goat..or Boy, whatever he calls himself. Anyone
>that has George Bush as a hero, and thinks that if you don’t like to
>eat meat because of the inhumane slaughter of animals, then you must
>be a Hindu cow lover. Nick at least is intelligent, and can debate
>somewhat intelligently…but that guy! I just don’t like red-neck,
>republican, types, who think we should be made to do what he thinks
>is right, or made NOT to do what he thinks is wrong. He actually
>BELIEVES the disinformation the Govt. puts out, I think…and don’t
>get me wrong, I DO respect the soldier, and sometimes war is
>neccesary..but what’s going on in the world today, with the U.S.
>policing practically the entire world and calling themselves (I live
>here but I refuse to identify myself with current policy) the Moral
>Majority! Basically, I just hate to be told what or what not to
>do–IF it doesn’t hurt anyone else, or infringe on their
>freedom…now, you could say that being pro-choice, with the
>abortion issue, is hurting someone else..but I think, up to a point,
>that a foetus is still just a part of the woman…I don’t like
>abortion, I like prevention..but sometimes it’s the lesser evil,
>IMO..I also think it’s very hipocritical to get all up in arms cause
>it’s our precious, oh so special children (or so right wing radicals
>call foetus’) but have no problem with the slaughtering of thousands
>of animals a day!  Well…I didn’t mean to carry-on so long. I’m
>getting ready to move, plus I’m in the process of learning some new
>songs on my guitar–or as Billy Boy would say, my gee-tar! So I
>won’t be around that much for a while anyway. I appreciate your
>advice, Randy–or BiscuitBoy, whichever you prefer–and I certainly
>have no beef with you–and you got a great Mom. It’s kinda weird to
>me that you can have that much openness with your mom..I envy you a
>bit…my mom’s 77 and from a whole different generation,,yeah, she
>had me late–I’m 38. Peace!
>
>
>
>
>
>  ——–
>
>From:  “cm” <cm67@optusnet.com.au>
>Reply-To:  ibogaine@mindvox.com
>To:  <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
>Subject:  Re: [Ibogaine] Pot calling the Kettle Black?
>Date:  Wed, 5 Apr 2006 12:24:24 +1000
>>”fried my brain with ibogaine”
>>  msg on the list from alan again
>>will this be the one to finally send me insane
>>
>>sorry randy, that was the best a very sleepy chi chi could come up
>>with.
>>no offense directed at you alan.
>>chi x
>>—– Original Message —– From: <biscuitboy714@aol.com>
>>To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
>>Sent: Wednesday, April 05, 2006 10:53 AM
>>Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Pot calling the Kettle Black?
>>
>>
>>>Alan, dood, chill out willya? Let’s
>>>see……………..uh……………..I am enjoying the debate
>>>with Nick,………..my mom is quick to compliment intellegence, I
>>>agree, No I don’t agree that only emotionally repressed people get
>>>high off of opiates, actually I didn’t catch that, everybody gets
>>>high off of opiates, it never fails if you do enough.
>>>uh……………..I’ve done every opiate I ever came across until
>>>I did Ibogaine. I seem to be able to pass on them now. I’m still
>>>laughing at the thought of my mother working up a shot of brown.
>>>OK
>>>so I answered your question. Let me make a point. LIGHTEN UP
>>>BEAVIS……..dude I appreciate yoour passion, I was the same way
>>>when I first found the list. I was not a happy camper. Sticking
>>>around here I have lost my mind and now I try and find humor in
>>>the
>>>little things in life. It gets me by. Please by no means take me
>>>serious. I have fried my brain with Ibogaine. Hell that rymes
>>>”fried my brain with Ibogaine…………somebody finish the line.
>>>I’ll be serious tomorrow, I want to laugh today. “when the spoon
>>>is
>>>hot and the needle’s shot……..drift away” Alice in Chains Randy
>>>
>>>—–Original Message—–
>>>From: Alan Hehe <a.h.veil68@hotmail.com>
>>>To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
>>>Sent: Sun, 02 Apr 2006 12:31:45 -0400
>>>Subject: [Ibogaine] Pot calling the Kettle Black?
>>>
>>>  Hey…uh, Biscuit Boy,
>>>
>>>  What’s the matter? Do you NOT like my debate with Nick, or do
>>>you
>>>just not like the fact that Ann paid me a compliment? Do you agree
>>>with Nick’s idea that only emotionally repressed individuals
>>>receive any sort of high from opiates? If you’ve got something to
>>>say, why not come out and say it? Have you never done opiates? Or
>>>any drugs? What gives you the right to judge Ann? Personally I
>>>don’t care if her comment was influened by a whole gram of Mexican
>>>brown! Better a nice compliment from someone high, than a nasty
>>>one
>>>from someone sober! Now, if I’ve misconstrued your intent, I
>>>apologize, but I would appreciate a logical explanation rather
>>>than
>>>a low-blow insinuation.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>——–
>>>
>>>From: biscuitboy714@aol.com
>>>Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
>>>To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
>>>Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Opiate effects
>>>Date: Sun, 02 Apr 2006 11:05:09 -0400
>>> >Yea Ann, tell us how much heroin you shot last night. He He I
>>> >couldn’t help it. I love you Mamma Randy
>>> >
>>> >—–Original Message—–
>>> >From: Alan Hehe <a.h.veil68@hotmail.com>
>>> >To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
>>> >Sent: Sat, 01 Apr 2006 11:15:03 -0500
>>> >Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Opiate effects
>>> >
>>> > Hey Ann,
>>> >
>>> > Thank you for the compliment…Somebody’s got to try to counter
>>> >his crazy ideas with some sense. Feel free to write me
>>>anytime..I
>>> >really enjoy talking to people on this list and hearing their
>>> >stories…Oh, don’t tell anyone, but I studied semantics and
>>>debate
>>> >in high school! Just kidding…about the hush hush, as anyone
>>>will
>>> >be able to read this. Oh, heck–LOL! I’m 37, and High school is
>>>but
>>> >a distant, mainly unplesant experience…except when I would
>>>catch
>>> >my English teacher making grammatical or syntactical mistakes,
>>> >before they moved me into an A.P. college-level class…And no,
>>>I’m
>>> >not conceited, either..but I do enjoy debate! Everyone has
>>>certain
>>> >qualities at which they excel, and others at which they are
>>> >deficient. I make up for my skill in English by being a retard
>>>in
>>> >math! Plus, I couldn’t be that smart or I wouldn’t be here,
>>>looking
>>> >for a way out of the hell-hole I dug for myself….and despite
>>> >having a really shitty childhood, I take complete responsibility
>>>for
>>> >my current position in
>>> >life……………………………….Wishing you the best in
>>> >all…….Alan.
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > ——–
>>> >From: “Ann B. Mullikin” <think@francomm.com>
>>> >Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
>>> >To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
>>> >Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Opiate effects
>>> >Date: Sat, 1 Apr 2006 10:04:20 -0500
>>> >
>>> > No, I am not Nick but…..
>>> >
>>> > Bravo, Alan. I surely do appreciate the way you use your brain
>>>-
>>> >TO THINK AND TO REASON. Its good stuff. Keep on.
>>> > ann
>>> >think@francomm.com
>>> >
>>> > —– Original Message —–
>>> >From: Alan Hehe
>>> >To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
>>> >Sent: Friday, March 31, 2006 4:49 PM
>>> >Subject: [Ibogaine] Opiate effects
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > Hey Nick,
>>> >
>>> > I wanted to say that, although I was basically right, I believe
>>> >(and according to the research I’ve done) about the reason
>>>opiates
>>> >cause pleasure, I wasn’t entirely correct about the natural
>>>opiates
>>> >(dopamine,etc) having an effect on mood. They do have an affect
>>>on
>>> >mood..but then again, so does euphoria..in fact, it could be
>>>said
>>>to
>>> >be a mood unto itself. Here’s a little medical info for: Opiates
>>> >(heroin, morphine, etc.)
>>> >
>>> > The human body naturally produces its own opiate-like
>>>substances
>>> >and uses them as neurotransmitters. These substances include
>>> >endorphins, enkephalins, and dynorphin, often collectively known
>>>as
>>> >endogenous opioids. Endogenous opioids modulate our reactions to
>>> >painful stimuli. They also regulate vital functions such as
>>>hunger
>>> >and thirst and are involved in mood control, immune response,
>>>and
>>> >other processes.
>>> >
>>> >The reason that opiates such as heroin and morphine affect us so
>>> >powerfully is that these exogenous substances bind to the same
>>> >receptors as our endogenous opioids. There are three kinds of
>>> >receptors widely distributed throughout the brain: mu, delta,
>>>and
>>> >kappa receptors.
>>> >
>>> >These receptors, through second messengers, influence the
>>>likelihood
>>> >that ion channels will open, which in certain cases reduces the
>>> >excitability of neurons. This reduced excitability is the likely
>>> >source of the euphoric effect of opiates and appears to be
>>>mediated
>>> >by the mu and delta receptors.
>>> >
>>> >This euphoric effect also appears to involve another mechanism
>>>in
>>> >which the GABA-inhibitory interneurons of the ventral tegmental
>>>area
>>> >come into play. By attaching to their mu receptors, exogenous
>>> >opioids reduce the amount of GABA released (see animation).
>>> >Normally, GABA reduces the amount of dopamine released in the
>>> >nucleus accumbens. By inhibiting this inhibitor, the opiates
>>> >ultimately increase the amount of dopamine produced and the
>>>amount
>>> >of pleasure felt.
>>> >
>>> >Chronic consumption of opiates inhibits the production of cAMP,
>>>but
>>> >this inhibition is offset in the long run by other cAMP
>>>production
>>> >mechanisms. When no opiates are available, this increased cAMP
>>> >production capacity comes to the fore and results in neural
>>> >hyperactivity and the sensation of craving the drug.
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >——–
>>> > Make FREE PC-to-PC calls with MSN Messenger. Get it now!
>>>
>>>
> >/]=———————————————————————
>
>>>=
>>> >[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands:
>>> >http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
>>>
>>>
> >\]=———————————————————————
>
>>>=
>>> >[/
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >——–
>>> > Find just what you’re after with the new, more precise MSN
>>>Search
>>> >- try it now!
>>>
>>>
> >/]=———————————————————————
>
>>>=
>>> >[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands:
>>> >http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
>>>
>>>
> >\]=———————————————————————
>
>>>=
>>> >[/
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>>
>>>
> >/]=———————————————————————
>
>>>=[\
>>> >[%] Ibogaine List Commands:
>>> >http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
>>> >
>>>
>>>
> >\]=———————————————————————
>
>>>=[/
>>> >
>>> >
>>>
>>>
>>>——–
>>>  Be one of the first to try Windows Live Mail
>>>/]=——————————————————————–
>-=
>>>[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands:
>>>http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
>>>\]=——————————————————————–
>-=
>>>[/
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>/]=——————————————————————–
>-=[\
>>>[%] Ibogaine List Commands:
>>>http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
>>>
>>>\]=——————————————————————–
>-=[/
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>/]=———————————————————————
>=[\
>>[%] Ibogaine List Commands:
>>http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
>>
>>\]=———————————————————————
>=[/
>>
>>
>
>
>——–
>  Play Trivia with MSN Messenger for a chance to win an XBOXT 360
>prize pack!
>/]=———————————————————————=
>[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands:
>http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
>\]=———————————————————————=
>[/
>
>
>
>
>/]=———————————————————————=[\
>[%] Ibogaine List Commands:
>http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
>
>\]=———————————————————————=[/
>
>

Get turn-by-turn driving directions you can really use – Windows Live Local is here! /]=———————————————————————=[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%] \]=———————————————————————=[/

From: jon@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] OT! Eating cattle or food
Date: April 5, 2006 at 2:24:56 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

potatoes have eyes too =P

i remember this punk song about how silly it is that vegetarians, for
example, don’t eat clams… because clams have essentially the same kind
of nervous system as broccoli and cauliflower…

the line between plant and animal is not an entirely clear one.. and the
decision to eat plants but not animals seems to me a pretty arbitrary one.
plants are living, breathing, and to some degree, thinking creatures as
well. but they get no love from PETA…

i guess my basic point is.. eat whatever you’re comfortable with. but
realise that whatever you eat, ANYTHING you eat, inflicts suffering on
some creature.

such is the nature of life.

ahaha… speaking of PETA, i saw the best bumper sticker a couple weeks
ago….eheh… it said:

“PETA – People Eating Tasty Animals”

=)

oh, and one more thing… as for the whole pet vs. food argument… i know
for a fact that if my cat ever got the chance, he would totally eat me. so
i don’t wanna hear it.. =P

for me eating meat in a society where it’s unnecessary merely promotes the
fear/bloodthirsty addiction so prevalent in the Western world. I can see
eating meat in a society where there are no alternatives, but where I live
it’s easy to not eat meat, and I’m glad.
I still do dairy and eggs, but can’t eat anything that might lick it’s
fellow beings, or nuzzle them, or communicate in any way, shape or form
with
one another, even chickens (which I’ve been told are ok to eat because
“they’re stupid.” If that were the only criteria for being ok to eat, I’d
be
a cannibal). Again, this is only my own viewpoint, but there seems to be
something unenlightened, to me, how some folk can have “pets” but call
cattle mere “food,” making no connection to the living, breathing,
thinking
creatures sharing the planet with us.

Butt, and it’s a great big butt, I can’t really fault anyone for their
eating habits beyond stating how I personally feel, particularly about
factory farming, inhumane treatment of our “food” and the wonton slaughter
of living creatures when it isn’t necessary for our survival, only to feed
our addiction to blood and flesh these days (Of course one couuld take
this
to extreme and tell me plants are also living, but I limit my empathy and
eating ban to beings with eys I guess).
That’s because I’m…pro-choice at heart.

—–
“If God dropped acid, would he see people?”  ~Steven Wright

Peace, love and lotsof respect.
Preston Peet
ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor Underground- the Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations,
Astonishing Archaeology and Hidden History
Editor Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Columnist HighTimes mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —–
From: Crooked Eye
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Tuesday, April 04, 2006 3:53 AM
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Whats a Republican?

Cow’s are tasty…  If we aren’t supposed to eat animals, then why are
they
made out of meat?  😀  I fail how to see eating cows equates to racism…
I
eat a lot of cows, but I have a mixed family…  If it makes you feel any
better we eat a lot of chickens, too..  I love turkey, the tryptophan
makes
me sleepy…

Alan Hehe <a.h.veil68@hotmail.com> wrote:
Don’t call me Baby…well, you can…since you’re not close enough for
me
to do anything about it! Plus, that’s a freedom, too…Just like my
ability
to talk about pro-choice. As for your information, no, I don’t think the
way
the abortion system is set up–but I absolutely believe in having the
right…And no, you don’t have 9 months to decide whether to have the rug
rat or not–there is a cut-off, a limit to when abortions can be
performed.
And so you think, because cows aren’t pets, or aren’t ‘cute’, then
it’s
okay to torture them? And to cut the balls of bulls off without any
anesthetic? To make chickens live in a cage so small they can barely turn
around? And George Bush–wanting to save lives! LOL! That’s the biggest
joke
I’ve ever heard! But it figures; you’re not special..alot of the people in
this country are brain-washed by the constant disinformation they are
fed….Why do you think there are a hundred commercials warning of the
dangers of marijuana, one of the least harmful drugs known to man, but yet
maybe one out of those hundred about the truly dangerous drugs, like H or
Coke?
And you don’t have to be a hindu to have compassion for animals
other
than cats and dogs, you dumb-ass red-neck! In some places they eat
dogs…would that be okay if they ate your dog? You know, I’m totally
wasting my time talking to you, I can already tell that you are way
undereducated, extremely prejudiced. Cows are just food. Are blacks just
niggers, too? God, I can’t stand fuckin’ red-necks like you, especially
the
ones that actually think they’re smart. Once you start doing away with
freedoms, it’s all down-hill. Who’s going to decide what’s right and
wrong?
You?! I would happily put a hollow-point 45 shell into my head if that
possibility existed..of course G.W.B. is quite the redneck himself, which
is
why you probably like him. First of all, HE’s not fighting for anything. I
have respect for the soldiers; they don’t decide the mission, they just do
what they’re told. And how many babies do you think die while we were
waging
a war we were totally lied to about? Or is that okay? You think the babies
over there even know what a terrorist is? This world is already
over-populated..if people like you ran things, the world would run out of
resources within a decade! The oh so precious children! Everyone starts
out
as a child..some people, like you, remain one, in their minds, their whole
life. But those sweet children often grow up to be killers and rapists,
and
often for no apparent reason!  Strong belief does only one thing: close
your
mind. Boy, that ibogaine is gonna have fun with you!!!!! Cows are just
food!
Well, we’re just food, too…if a grizzly decides you look good! God, what
egotism!  You claim to be a Christian (I do not) but you must have misssed
the part about not judging lest you be judged yourself…And I bet ibo’s
gonna drive that one home with a psychoactive sledgehammer! You’ve got
your
response, but I really no longer wish to talk with you. I’ve spent too
much
time arguing with all the fascists on this list, instead of hanging out
with
the cool, in the know ,people: by that meaning knowing that the whole
Govt.
is totally corrupt, actually controlled by a few wealthy and extremely
powerful people, and they constantly just feed us disinformation, while
manipulating the world through economic control, etc, and alot of other
things you wouldn’t understand. BYE< NOW, Billy BOY. Go get a burger!

From:  “Billy J” <billjohnson6@sympatico.ca>
Reply-To:  ibogaine@mindvox.com
To:  ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject:  RE: [Ibogaine] Whats a Republican?
Date:  Tue, 04 Apr 2006 02:19:25 -0400
Hear this peace and take it to your Heart FRIEND.
1st if we go back to Killing kids for the sins of their fathers
(Child of a Rapist) Do you think that is more civilized then Raising
Cattle for food,(Cattle are food “not Pets”) although you may be
from India or somewhere that they worship your cows and even there
fecal matter I hear! Now if your are at that junkger(Place) then I
will have to say -well Al, Bless you, but when was the last time you
had your precious cow go to war for YOUR FREEDOMS that I am sure you
are enjoying- Yes?
Allan , do you really love cows (the 4 legged ones that is) or
are you in your 2nd or 3rd reincarnation and you where once a cow
and you have come into this wierd mooing stage and you just could
not figure it out.
Ok That is sarcasm – Sorry< I’ll get serious.
Oh Ya Your aborting a fetus-, and yes I know that in the USof A
being the most civilized Nation that has usually voted anti-
Christian ( just in case somebody didn’t let Everybody do what FEELs
GOOD)
Ya you can Have sex with anybody you want and then if a girl gets
pregnant, or do you call it fetus something, oh well  so shes
pregnant you have 9 months to decide whether or not you what the
little BLOB Because your fetus can be kicking up a storm and as long
as you can keep its stupid( oh it,s brain isn’t functioning yet
,right) well as long as you can keep its head inside the grown up
fetus ( that would be the female, The pregnant one, knocked up one ,
dumb one what ever you would call someone like that ( Maybe MOM)
well just reach in and CRUSH ITS SCULL and or STICK A SYRINGE INTO
THe Back of it HEAD JUST UNTIL ITS STOPS PUTTINGN UP A FIGHT, AND
they do fight Allan, just go and ask your abortion doctor.– PARTIAL
BIRTH ABORTION– VERY NICE–
oH YA AND YOU KNOW WHAT ALLY BABY THAT STUPID WAR MOGER THAT YOU
HAVE AS A PRESIDENT WOULD LIKE NOTHING MORE THAN TO SAVE PEOPLE BUT
ALL YOU PEOPLE THAT GOD GAVE YOU FREE CHOICE HAVE DECIDED TO VOTE
FOR THE REAL KILLERS-
Have you any clue how many of your fetuses are done away with
each year in the USA alone,, Allan Baby– way way more in 1 year
than have been killed in ALL the World wars— How many do you think
are rape and how many are just another form of birth control,, Your
Planned Parenthood is a multi-Billion dollar industry that fights
for you to have the freedom to get rid of your Babies- But They do
not do it for free– They are rich.One more thing if we can justify
killing because you THINK they don’t feel pain- Why not line up all
us addicts right after a good whack and while we are feeling no pain
BANG-
Save a lot of tax dollars- The Meth Clinics would be Pissed though.

Love Ya!

Just Don’t say it is OK To Kill My Children- Or Yours

B

—-Original Message Follows—-
From: “Alan Hehe” <a.h.veil68@hotmail.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] RE: [Pornography,psychology,Choice,force,) 2
cents
Date: Tue, 04 Apr 2006 01:25:21 -0400
MIME-Version: 1.0
Received: from tomts30-srv.bellnexxia.net ([209.226.175.104]) by
bay0-pamc1-f3.bay0.hotmail.com with Microsoft
SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Mon, 3 Apr 2006 22:27:22 -0700
Received: from toip4.bellnexxia.net ([209.226.175.87])          by
tomts30-srv.bellnexxia.net          (InterMail vM.5.01.06.13
201-253-122-130-113-20050324) with ESMTP          id
<20060404052721.IXFI18550.tomts30-srv.bellnexxia.net@toip4.bellnexxia.net>
for <billjohnson6@sympatico.ca>; Tue, 4 Apr 2006 01:27:21
-0400
Received: from tanelorn.mindvox.com (HELO mail.mindvox.com)
([64.124.179.118])  by toip4.bellnexxia.net with ESMTP; 04 Apr 2006
01:27:16 -0400
Received: (qmail 1073 invoked by uid 513); 4 Apr 2006 01:27:15 -0400
Received: (qmail 1067 invoked by uid 514); 4 Apr 2006 01:27:15 -0400
X-Message-Info: moY6YVwXQ46hfM+PXD+r03SFMVOY3E1daJYU/Sm1Nkw=
Mailing-List: contact ibogaine-help@mindvox.com; run by ezmlm
Precedence: bulk
X-No-Archive: yes
List-Post: <mailto:ibogaine@mindvox.com>
List-Help: <mailto:ibogaine-help@mindvox.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:ibogaine-unsubscribe@mindvox.com>
List-Subscribe: <mailto:ibogaine-subscribe@mindvox.com>
Delivered-To: mailing list ibogaine@mindvox.com
X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.1 required=4.0
X-Antivirus-MYDOMAIN-Mail-From: a.h.veil68@hotmail.com via
tanelorn.mindvox.com
X-Antivirus-MYDOMAIN: 1.25-st-qms
(Clear:RC:0(65.54.224.26):SA:0(-2.1/4.0):. Processed in 8.08646 secs
Process 1055)
Return-Path:
ibogaine-return-23280-billjohnson6=sympatico.ca@mindvox.com
X-OriginalArrivalTime: 04 Apr 2006 05:27:22.0868 (UTC)
FILETIME=[7363CB40:01C657A8]

I gotta take a piece of this one. Okay, Mr. Anti-choice, let me
ask you this: do you eat meat? If not, then good for you. If so,
have you ever though about the actual, truly painful, totally
inhumane treatment we put animals through? And usually don’t think
twice about it…It’s people like George Bush who make me wish
sometimes that God would hurl an asteroid at us! It’s “God forbid
one human foetus (who does not feel a thing if the abortion is done
in a timely manner, according to the latest research, because their
nervous system isn’t nearly fully developed) should perish, no
matter if it was caused by a rape or is probably going to be born
into alot of suffering–but while I’m on my high horse, cut me a
piece o that cow off and cook it up! It’s sheer egotism that we
believe that humans are so damned
important, but it’s okay if we torture animals, ruin the planet, and
make other people adhere to our beliefs!!! We’re not that important!
And if you believe in a God and the soul, then you know that–if the
foetus even has a soul yet, which I don’t believe it does..I believe
the soul enters with the first breath, and leaves with the
last–that baby is just going back into the arms of God! There is no
death! And since they don’t experience pain, all it becomes is
something for people like you to feel self righteous about!
Personally, I think everyone should smoke pot, and would benefit
from it (except for a few cases), but how would you like it if I
MADE you smoke it? That is, if you don’t, and don’t like it. Or
let’s say you eat meat, but I think it’s just as evil to do that as
to allow abortions, so I outlawed meat–would that be okay with you?
And the cliff analogy is just stupid–not
the same thing at all. But yes, I think if a person is truly
miserable, and wants to die, I would try to talk them out of it, but
I would never stop them by force. That’s called LACK OF FREEDOM. And
if we didn’t make mistakes, how would we ever learn? To be told
something is wrong is one thing..you can tell a person, fire will
burn you..but until they get burned, they will not truly understand,
and that’s what life is all about–learning. No, I don’t like to see
foetus’ abortions–I think prevention is the answer….But
sometimes, I believe it is ‘the best choice’. If everyone like you
had their way, there really would be NO ROOM AT ALL left!!! We’re
already sooo over-populated! It’s like I heard some character say in
a movie recently..”everybody’s kids are so special…it makes you
wonder where all the normal adults come from”. Even God believes in
freedom of choice! That’s why he gave
us FREE WILL. You’re a Republican, aren’t you? And you probably
think that war-mongering asshole of a President is the best-thing
since sliced bread, eh? It’s okay to kill, as long as it’s not a
precious child…even though that child may grow up to be The Son of
Sam!  well…”take me by the ham, no good, no evil, no give a
damn!”  And the Govt. is lying to you! About just about everything.
Peace, love, and freedom. Life is too mysterious to take it so
serious!

From:  “Billy J” <billjohnson6@sympatico.ca>
Reply-To:  ibogaine@mindvox.com
To:  ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject:  [Ibogaine] RE: [Pornography,psychology,Choice,force,) 2
cents
Date:  Sun, 02 Apr 2006 21:45:39 -0400
Well It sounds like this place is really mixing it up so I would
like to add a little REALITY TO YOU PRO CHOICERS, I am sure glad I
was not an abortion’ althought I have had my moments.
Yes My Mom was a young Mom and if she had a choice I think that I
would have no Grandkids, or be babbleing on here.
I too have an attitude, It is about the only thing in this
world that I really have control over.
Tiger– How well did you do with making ALL your own Choices,
Instead of doing
what your were told to do? Not meant to be a shot
at you personally, but I am with the Right or Wrong crowd- No such
thing as grey.
I do know that some people may have grown up believing that
wrong
was right and right was wrong, but I Think that I pretty much knew
when I was stepping out of line and doing wrong.
It is (as most believe) My God , no not God, but My worldly given
Right- to do wrong- It’s my life and if I want to screw it up then
stay out of my way. And you know what I had a lot of sooo called
friends that did just that WATCHED, AS i WAS Killing myself and
ruining a lot of lifes.
But O O O never no no no neverdare step on somebodys toes because
you know what they have a choice, Just like those poor little
Crack
%$^&%$ Women that degrade themselves( and me
myself) due to
everybody. But Never No No Never dare tell somebody or force
someone
to get some help that they may never ever make it to on their own,
due to something called “Pride” “Shame” “Guilt”
Whatever holds them back. They may end up DEAD and it would be
their
own fault, because you know how STRONG us druggies are, and if
that
person dies because he had a choice to get help and refused or
just
couldn’t make it on his/her own and needed YOU (of course they
didn’t tell you that).
I am sorry but I BELIEVE that if you Love Someone or even care a
little, and you see them walking off a cliff and YOU have an
opportunity to stop them, and you don’t- Can you truelly say it
was
their own fault?
Pornography- I never met too many Normal people that would find it
neccesary to take their
cloths off for the public to see. Totally
wrong and if you had your own kids you might not think it too cool
having your buddy beating off while checking out your little girl.
Not nice eh Billy but P–sy T-ts are not meant for anyone except
who
they belong to and their mate.

Bye For Now, That stuff is about the biggest trigger going for any
downfall

Bill
—-Original Message Follows—-
From: “Nick Sandberg” <nick227@tiscali.co.uk>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Opiates
Date: Sun, 2 Apr 2006 10:24:07 +0100
MIME-Version: 1.0
Received: from tomts21-srv.bellnexxia.net ([209.226.175.183]) by
bay0-pamc1-f11.bay0.hotmail.com with Microsoft
SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Sun, 2 Apr 2006 05:38:59
-0700
Received: from toip5.bellnexxia.net ([209.226.175.88])          by
tomts21-srv.bellnexxia.net          (InterMail vM.5.01.06.13
201-253-122-130-113-20050324) with ESMTP          id
<20060402123858.HZPV14030.tomts21-srv.bellnexxia.net@toip5.bellnexxia.net>
for <billjohnson6@sympatico.ca>; Sun, 2 Apr 2006
08:38:58
-0400
Received: from tanelorn.mindvox.com (HELO mail.mindvox.com)
([64.124.179.118])  by toip5.bellnexxia.net with ESMTP; 02 Apr
2006
08:38:58 -0400
Received: (qmail 16967 invoked by uid 513); 2 Apr 2006 08:38:55
-0400
Received: (qmail 16961 invoked by uid
514); 2 Apr 2006 08:38:55
-0400
X-Message-Info: moY6YVwXQ44WAJnUvaOEtK2hXKGagKAsshDbZwj7pSc=
Mailing-List: contact ibogaine-help@mindvox.com; run by ezmlm
Precedence: bulk
X-No-Archive: yes
List-Post: <mailto:ibogaine@mindvox.com>
List-Help: <mailto:ibogaine-help@mindvox.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:ibogaine-unsubscribe@mindvox.com>
List-Subscribe: <mailto:ibogaine-subscribe@mindvox.com>
Delivered-To: mailing list ibogaine@mindvox.com
X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.3 required=4.0
X-Antivirus-MYDOMAIN-Mail-From: nick227@tiscali.co.uk via
tanelorn.mindvox.com
X-Antivirus-MYDOMAIN: 1.25-st-qms
(Clear:RC:0(212.74.114.37):SA:0(-2.3/4.0):. Processed in 2.781926
secs Process 16953)
X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true
X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result:
AQAAAJ0kL0SDE4UI
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.6604 (9.0.2911.0)
Return-Path:
ibogaine-return-23233-billjohnson6=sympatico.ca@mindvox.com
X-OriginalArrivalTime: 02 Apr 2006 12:38:59.0373 (UTC)
FILETIME=[6A155DD0:01C65652]

—–Original Message—–
From: Tiger Lisa [mailto:tigerlisa@gmail.com]
Sent: 01 April 2006 13:44
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Opiates

Dear Nick,
Here’ the part I don’t understand.

You wrote,
Personally, my position is…I think rising awareness is GOOD.
I
would
love to see more people in groups, going through their stuff,
becoming more
aware of their
personal interior dynamic, and moving forward in
life. But,
sadly, I’m not in a position to compel people to do this.

Why would you ever want to COMPEL anyone to do ANYTHING? Do you
really
believe that would be useful, effective, helpful? Do you think
people
actually benefit from, and grow from, being FORCED to do anything?

That is a parent-child model of interaction (and not a
particularly
skillful one, IMO), and it’s going to reinforce childlike,
rebellious and
victim behavior (NOT self-awareness!) in the one so compelled, as
well as
reinforcing bullying behavior and disprespectful and righteous
attitudes
(NOT increased compassion or awareness) in the one doing the
compelling. A
“lose-lose” interaction–no one
wins!

Myself, I believe CHOICE is the name of the game. With choice
comes
responsibility, self-responsibility and a loss of the victim
consciousness
that drives continued reactive and unconscious behavior.

So in a nutshell: Saying something (like awarenss) is GOOD is
one
thing,
but it’s a far cry from that to say,”And I’d love to FORCE you all
to be
more aware! too bad I can’t!” I think that is the essence of
what
*I* am
having a problem with. Yes, awareness is good. I agree. Yes, I’d
love to
live in a more aware society, umm hmm. Then I read the next
sentence
and I’m
brought up short.

We all need love, acceptance, compassion. Compassion is one of
the most
healing things
going! Power and control, on the other hand, just get
people’s backs up, thrust them into dysfunctional modes of
thinking
and
perpetuate a lack of awareness all around.

Just my two cents,
Tiger

PS I bet if you took a shot of heroin, you would experience
bliss! (not
that I’m suggesting you do) I believe it is just how human beings
are wired.
We’ve all got the same neurotransmitters, more or less.

Hi Tiger,

Well, I seem to recall, from the days when I used to go to
conferences and
stuff, that studies have shown that only a small percentage of
school kids
who used heroin developed a habit. (Howard Parker in Sheffield, or
something
like that, about 1000 individuals
studied). This is not quite the
same as
what you’re saying, I appreciate, but it shows that the drug of
itself is
not necessarily addicting. I don’t know if anyone knows what makes
a
difference but I’d be willing to bet that, psychologically, it
relates
strongly to “ego orientation” vs “underlying levels of feeling.”
If
you’ve
developed a self-image that requires you to repress more feelings
than the
endogenous opiates in your body can do, then taking heroin is
going
to make
you feel pretty good. I would personally say that this is very
likely one
psychological mechanism behind addiction. This would explain why
so
many
addicts do come from relatively high trauma backgrounds. For, as
kids, we
learn that to “get things” and to “be popular” we need to
be able to
keep
our feelings a bit under control, not just likely to collapse from
overfeeling at any time.

With bliss, (or anxiety for that matter), these are
experiential
things
and no neuroscientist can explain them beyond pointing a little at
things
that seem to be involved. What is clear is that the states are
relative to
one another. If you’re basically a happy person bliss is
inevitably
less
attractive than if you’re an anxious person.

About awareness, yes, I would love to force everyone to be more
aware!
And, inevitably, it doesn’t really work like that! But that’s my
position
anyway. What to do? Yes, compassion is needed, sometimes a lot of
it. Also,
all the power and control at times. I’m not so
busy with how I think
society
should be, or trying to like Understand the world, I just put my
position
out really. About choice, well, it seems like a great thing, for
sure, but
to me it’s a little the same as trying to push compassion at the
expense of
power. In philosophy or spirituality or whatever, some people
believe that
free will exists, others that the universe is entirely
deterministic. Who
the fuck knows? Both are cool viewpoints, and I personally
wouldn’t
just
want to just trapped in just one of them.

Is it cool to allow someone you care about to carry on fucking
their life
up because you believe so much in their free will? Not for me! I
like to
have the guts to take a position. And, to be honest, it’s a little

bit what
I miss in this list, where half the time everyone seems to be
talking it up
all nice but actually underneath there are shed-loads of feelings.
I
don’t
know if this says anything significant about ibogaine, or about
the
people
who are attracted to administering it, or what. But I notice it.

Nick

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands:
http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]

\]=———————————————————————=[/

With MSN Spaces email straight to your blog. Upload jokes, photos
and more. It’s free!

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands:
http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]

\]=———————————————————————=[/

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands:
http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]

\]=———————————————————————=[/

Be one of the first to try Windows Live Mail
/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html
[%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. PC-to-Phone calls for ridiculously low rates.

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html
[%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: “Alan Hehe” <a.h.veil68@hotmail.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] Nick
Date: April 5, 2006 at 1:47:40 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Nick–

Well, just as I expected, you can’t explain any of your beliefs or why you believe them, and you have made me regret saying I was sorry for being hard on it. I think YOU are the one with some serious emotional and mental problems, Nick…at least IMO. Saying you don’t feel like a “mindy discussion is just bullshit, a cop out, as is your statement about detachment. Just because it doesn’t work for you doesn’t mean it doesn’t work for anyone…But I guess you must be wiser than The Buddha, or Lao-tse too. I didn’t ask you to try to explain the nature of reality or the universe, Nick.
You are always complaining about people not listening and just reacting, and then when I politely ask you to explain your beliefs, like your one about encounter therapy, you don’t have shit to say, except to denounce other ideas as bullshit. I really don’t think you know what you think…I believe, IMO, that you are a very confused person. Well–let’s leave it at that. You had your chance, an actual request, to state what you think, and you just avoided it by denouncing other things…It’s easy to say someone or something is bullshit–it’s much harder to say positive things about what YOU think and believe. You’re just hopeless to me Nick, so please stop writing to me…I know you’ll want to respond to this, and I will read that, but whether you stop or not, I’m simply going to ignore your posts…at least until you have something real to say.
Alan.

Save time by starting a search from any Web page with the MSN Search Toolbar-FREE! /]=———————————————————————=[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%] \]=———————————————————————=[/

From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] didn’t get pics Preston
Date: April 5, 2006 at 12:35:38 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

didn’t get pics Preston, only red x’s. Could you send as attachment to me?
Callie

From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] RE:anger
Date: April 5, 2006 at 8:48:56 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Books? Sorry, don’t read them.<

Why not Nick?
Oh and thanks for the link to some of your work- I’ll read it later today.

—–
“If God dropped acid, would he see people?”  ~Steven Wright

Peace, love and lotsof respect.
Preston Peet
ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor Underground- the Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations, Astonishing Archaeology and Hidden History
Editor Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Columnist HighTimes mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —– From: Nick Sandberg
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Wednesday, April 05, 2006 8:12 AM
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] RE:anger

Alan,

I was merely expressing where I am with things now. That’s my truth, man. If it doesn’t make sense to you, or whatever, I guess that’s how it is.

What do I believe? Oh God! Um, the computer monitor seems to be in front of me…because it just is, I can no longer be arsed with metaphysical stuff about “is it inside of me or outside of me”, and The stream of thoughts passing through becoming words in front of my eyes ARE mine! Again, because they just are. I have no way to prove either of these two positions so, yes, they are beliefs. Other than that, no so many beliefs oh and I like to live totally, without having to bother with all the interpretation, the endless programming of the mind trying to understand itself. Yeah, totality is cool, and mindy discussions just turn me off these days.

Detachment? Detachment is pure bullshit. More sack-o-shit dualistic spiritual manipulative twaddle, and occasionally needed. Life…it’s a fucking mystery, there’s no possibility for the mind to understand fuck all of it, except by totally compromising yourself. And who wants to do that? That’s where I am

Books? Sorry, don’t read them. Burning’s cool! (Just kidding)

Nick

—–Original Message—–
From: Alan Hehe [mailto:a.h.veil68@hotmail.com]
Sent: 05 April 2006 08:58
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] RE:anger

Nick, I don’t understand how meditating, or exploring different belief systems, keeps one from confronting himself, or from avoiding feelings. For me, the only way that you can get in touch with how you truly feel and think, is to stop talking to yourself (turn off the internal monologue), let your mind be quiet, and just watch your thoughts, from a detached point of view..and eventually all the loud voices–which usually aren’t really you, but all the crap we absorb from the endless streams of information, disinformation, advertising, other peoples words, etc. When the mind finally quiets down, there’s a very soft voice, the voice of your higher self, and all you have to do is pose a question in your mind, and you will know immediately whether it’s a good thing for you or not. I do not repress my feelings, either–you seem to be making contradictory statements…I release anger, in words, and then you say, “oh, he must have alot of repressed anger and emotions.”?  No, I don’t because by letting myself BE angry, I’ve let it out, not repressed it. When I’m sad, I cry….We’re all equipped with ways of dealing with emotions…but sometimes, you need to reign in your emotions a little and use your MIND. Also, by your statements about “I used to believe that, too, but now..” that you think you are above or beyond me. Have you ever read any of Robert Anton Wilson’s non-fictional books, like Prometheus Rising?  And I don’t think Freud or Jung were “cool”…I think trying to be “cool” is being false to yourself…but at the same time, it’s a cruel world, and if you go around letting all your emotions wide out all the time, you are going to eventually run into trouble. I don’t like your inference of superiority, but then again I don’t truly care, either. We must all walk our own paths, and pride certainly does come before a fall. Nevertheless, I am interested in what you REALLY think, besides the idea that everyone pushes alot of feelings back, especially junkies. So now you think Freud is cool….so you must believe in his OEdipal theories, then, huh? Come on Nick, tell me what you really believe! And you really think therapists are just trying to help us, even though a person is viewed as “abnormal” if he’s too creative in his interpretation of those Rorsch Ink Blots? Finally, sometimes we just have to–not neccesarily “repress” our emotions, but certainly keep them under control…I use a punching bag to help relieve my anger–because if I tore into everyone that pissed me off, then I’d end up in some “anger management class”..and while you might think that’s good–or not–I don’t have the time for it. I am very emotionally active….so what makes you superior to me, and can you write an e-mail expressing what you believe, in many aspects, because I can’t get a grip on what you’re really driving at, Nick….Emotions are just one part of our makeup, Nick..and sometimes, even confronting repressed feelings, confronting the person who helped caused them doesn’t cure you…My mother did alot of things that truly hurt me as a child…I’ve confronted my anger and sorrow over it, and I’ve confronted her about some of it. But I would never tell her how truly deeply she hurt me, because I know she’s only human and all humans make mistakes, and I know she did her best. I simply love her too much to do that..and being able to do that, to not express your every tear or fear..well, that’s called maturity, Nick. But I know myself. Know thyself–Plato said that..very wise words. I’ll be looking for your email–if you can do it–explaining your “comprehensive” world view…you said I should listen instead of just reacting, so I’m ready when you are. Over’n’out.

From: “Nick Sandberg” <nick227@tiscali.co.uk>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] RE:anger
Date: Tue, 4 Apr 2006 22:11:28 +0100

Hi Alan,

Fair enough! You seem like a forthright guy to me. I have done a lot of things that you talk about also, and believed the same stuff too. We are probably quite similar. I have also been “too clever” for the therapists in the past. I guess I thought it was like some game of cat and mouse and I didn’t connect to the reality of someone who was actually trying to help me. I missed that bit because I figured I knew it all better. Life had to get more desperate for me so that I could start to see that, for all my cleverness, very few of my emotional needs were actually getting met, and that in reality I needed help. Yeah, and I did the “teachings” scene too, the week-long satsangs on Goa beaches and “enlightenment intensives” in Poona. Thankfully all I got from that was that my only real responsibility was to actually take on what I was carrying around, to stop avoiding myself in search of some teaching that underneath was allowing me to just bullshit my way out of feeling stuff. I couldn’t really give a toss about philosophy or spirituality these days (well, getting there slowly!) and am still kind of grateful I was never deluded enough to try and become a Buddhist, which is what happens to a lot of angry young guys who don’t want to feel anymore. Poor souls. Yeah, Freud always seemed grossly uncool to me and Jung the opposite, nowadays it’s more the other way round. The world of concepts, with its “ego” and all these things that had to be “overcome,” man what a deranged trip that is. Just the same old parental conditioning coming back round again, you gotta drop this you gotta overcome that. Poor old Carl, trying to put everything into a map, with all those long, long books. I would love to have put him into a Humaniversity AUM meditation and let him experience the bliss beyond fear. So simple. But that’s just me. I guess his protege Wilhelm Reich still seems pretty cool to me. The Function of the Orgasm is such a great name for a book. I would read it except I don’t read books! I was punk in London in the 80s too, getting wasted in the Fox and Gossips, going to see the Ramones at the Academy, living in squats in Camden arguing with goths. And politics, and conspiracy theories. I’m still in the US who’s who for writing conspiracy theories. Yeah, maybe we’re the same person!

Nick

—–Original Message—–
From: Alan Hehe [mailto:a.h.veil68@hotmail.com]
Sent: 04 April 2006 21:17
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] RE:anger

Nick-
Perhaps I have been a little hard on you…it is true that I came from a traumatic background…I grew up fighting, both with my fists and my mind. But let me say this: I did not “scour” the internet looking for the info I posted for you. Believe it or not, it was the second site I came to. I agree with some of your theories, but I don’t agree with the way in which you choose to deal with them.
As far as being a psychonaut, I have travelled–on mushroom, L>S>D and Dextromethorphan to places you wouldn’t believe. I also do alot of meditating…I’ve always had a deep interest in Eastern philosophies, especially Zen and Tibetan Buddhism. And what I find is that Jesus, Lao-tse, Buddha, Mohammad, and many other spiritual teachers preach basically the same thing: love all (including animals..which we are at our most basic level), do not get attached to material things, that death is just a passge to another state (although here the different religions begin to show their differences more..at least APPARENTLY) and to avoid the ego-trap. I try to live by these teachings, but often fail.
As far as the whole “treatment” aspect of addiction goes, I believe some people need it and some people don’t. For me, it doesn’t work…in fact, when I was a teen I attempted suicide and for a time I was seeing a psychologist…but he got no-where with me, and this is what he said, in so many words: that I was too intelligent, too knowledgeable about psychology for him to treat me. I knew all the tricks…I knew what he wanted to hear and what would cause him to make notes in his little book. I already knew basically how a “normal person” is supposed to interpret those Rorsch Ink Blots. I also think alot of psychology is just alot of hogwash!  I do like some of Jung’s work, especially his research on archetypes and the collective unconsciousness and such…but his predecessor, his teacher? He (Freud) was one of the most psychologically disturbed people to ever foul our minds!
Yes, I do react, perhaps a little too seriously…and it’s not really that my beliefs are being threatened…I don’t actually have that many beliefs, but the few I have I do feel strongly about. So…I’m sorry for being so tough on you. Please don’t make me regret saying that…no-one is always right, Nick, or rarely ever entirely right–including me. I know alot of people who, when they read the part about me having a high I.Q., or being intelligent, will think: He can’t be that smart if he tried to kill himself! And they will be both right…and wrong. People in the West usually think something has to be either yes or no, right or wrong, on or off. And mostly that is the case–but not always. Eastern philosophy allows for a middle point, and understands how negatives and positives define each other….Being intelligent, you learn alot of things about the world that are not nice at all…you can’t have the “bliss” of ignorance, like some…You know that eating animals, unless that’s all there is, and then you thank the animal for giving ITS life so YOU could live, is usually wrong…I still have relapses…I haven’t always been a vegetarian. I also believe strongly in moderation. When you’re intelligent enough, you see through the lies of the Govt! You can’t lose yourself in silly T.V shows…you see ALL…and despite all the natural beauty, and the fact that the universe if filled with an energy that radiates love, you also see the cruelty and stupidity of your fellow man…yet still try to love him.
Well, that’s it. I don’t want to be accussed of writing too long of an e-mail again. But if “mind-y” means intelligent, than I plead guilty. But I assure you I am not a nerd. I’m outgowing, used to be pretty good with the ladies (till I made a commitment to one), can fight like a tiger, and love old Punk rock! So don’t try to pigenhole me!

From:  “Nick Sandberg” <nick227@tiscali.co.uk>
Reply-To:  ibogaine@mindvox.com
To:  <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Subject:  RE: [Ibogaine] Pot calling the Kettle Black?
Date:  Tue, 4 Apr 2006 12:45:47 +0100

> —–Original Message—–
> From: Preston Peet [mailto:ptpeet@nyc.rr.com]
> Sent: 04 April 2006 12:20
> To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
> Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Pot calling the Kettle Black?
>
>
> >But, working around addicts, what I see time and again is that they are
> >either from high trauma backgrounds or are just acutely
> sensitive, ie have
> >trouble repressing feelings. To me there’s a pretty clear relationship
> >between tendencies to opiate usage and the body’s ability to repress
> >feeling.<
>
> And if this is the case Nick, why out of curiosity is this
> necessarily a bad
> thing? Or is it? Or are there gray areas here in your view?
>

Hi Preston,

For sure there are grey areas. It’s just a tendency I notice in people using
opiates. A lot either seem to be hypersensitive or coming from a fairly
traumatic background. Both suggest to me they have a problem repressing
feelings. It’s not a bad thing at all. It’s just an observation. We’re all
just people at the end of the day.

Nick

> —–
> “If God dropped acid, would he see people?”  ~Steven Wright
>
> Peace, love and lotsof respect.
> Preston Peet
> ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
> Editor Underground- the Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations,
> Astonishing Archaeology and Hidden History
> Editor Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs
> Editor http://www.drugwar.com
> Columnist HighTimes mag/.com
> Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
> Columnist New York Waste
> Etc.
>
> —– Original Message —–
> From: Nick Sandberg
> To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
> Sent: Tuesday, April 04, 2006 5:01 AM
> Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Pot calling the Kettle Black?
>
>
> Alan,
>
> To be honest, I find you wrapped up so tight I am a bit scared to even
> communicate with you. I don’t know where things will go for you. I mean,
> just the suggestion that you are using opiates to hold down feelings and
> you’re at like defcon2 or something. Why not just check out why
> what I write
> brings up so much feeling in you? You think anger is created by events
> external to yourself? It can be triggered, for sure. But you
> gotta own your
> part of it. For me, you have every trait of someone who is very
> strongly in
> denial. You create some whole drama out of a few comments I make about
> opiates, feelings and bliss and seem convinced that you only use them to
> give you bliss or something. I’m just pushing out a little energy in the
> other direction. That’s all. Why do you seem to regard this as
> some form of
> abuse? I find you wrapped up tight, guy, really.
>
> I make a comment – “If you experience bliss from an analgesic it
> is because
> your body is struggling to hold down a lot of feelings your ego
> has decided
> it doesn’t want to have” and you create from it “only emotionally
> repressed
> individuals receive any sort of high from opiates.” To me that’s
> exaggeration. Ok, maybe not so much but it’s there. You also try
> and justify
> your own position by apparently scouring the net for some neurochemical
> stuff that says it isn’t so. I mean, to me that’s just a total defense
> reaction. I am not trying to create some big picture of how
> things are, some
> all-encompassing truth about addiction, my experience is that no
> such thing
> exists. I’m just pushing out a bit of energy. Yeah, maybe
> neurochemists have
> discovered how opiates work. Maybe. If so, it’s great. And I’m
> happy to take
> this new perspective in. And I’m happy to apologize if it’s upset you so
> much. But, working around addicts, what I see time and again is that > they
> are either from high trauma backgrounds or are just acutely sensitive, > ie
> have trouble repressing feelings. To me there’s a pretty clear
> relationship
> between tendencies to opiate usage and the body’s ability to repress
> feeling.
>
> Now you’re going to take ibogaine, which you seem to feel is holding out
> some kind of “cure” for your drug usage. Or maybe I’m reading you
> wrong. I
> certainly hope it’s good for you, man. And I don’t know what
> iboga will do
> for you personally, but what I do know is that it helps if you
> are open to
> honest self evaluation – that you can allow yourself to travel the many
> corridors of the psyche, especially the ones where ordinarily it
> looks a bit
> scary. Plenty of people have taken the drug, seen some God or other, > been
> drug free for a few weeks or months, all totally valuable
> experiences, and
> then found themselves back using pretty soon. And a lot of people are
> attracted to ibogaine because they think it’s some kind of treatment > that
> avoids formal rehab, avoids them having to be open and show their
> feelings
> in front of others. My experience is that it doesn’t really work
> like that.
>
> All in all, I’d like to be a friend to you. My intention is not
> bad. I just
> like to feel a bit of emotional reality in people so I put energy out > and
> see how it goes. Helps me feel connected to people, coz otherwise
> it’s just
> the mind putting out what it thinks you want to hear and I don’t
> find that
> so satisfying really. Just another game.
>
> Nick
>
>
>
> —–Original Message—–
> From: Alan Hehe [mailto:a.h.veil68@hotmail.com]
> Sent: 04 April 2006 04:34
> To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
> Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Pot calling the Kettle Black?
>
>
>   Nick…you are soooo full of shit. That’s exactly what you said, and
> you’re lucky I don’t have the e-mail anymore or I’d shove it down your
> lying, cyber throat!!!!!
>      Come on..Preston, someone…does anyone have that email, the
> one where
> I posted the medical info I think might have his actual statement
> on it….I
> would appreciate if someone could send it back to me. Almost word
> for word
> what you said was (grammatical errors included) “Opiate is an
> analgesic. It
> stops feeling. Only someone with alot of repressed emotions receive > bliss
> from analgesics, like opiates….” (you also said something about
> ego-orientation)…then you said “if you can think of another reason I’d
> love to hear it.”  Now I’m positive that I want nothing more to do with
> you…so let sleeping dogs lie, or I swear I will rip you
> apart…and that
> way, you won’t have to “be manipulated anymore!” You dug your own
> grave with
> a drstically stupid statement, and you’re too full of yourself to just
> say…”hey, I was wrong”. Now, for the second time, BYE!!!!!
>
>
>
>
> From: “Nick Sandberg” <nick227@tiscali.co.uk>
> Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
> To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
> Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Pot calling the Kettle Black?
> Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2006 08:53:07 +0100
>
>
>
> —–Original Message—–
> From: Alan Hehe [mailto:a.h.veil68@hotmail.com]
> Sent: 02 April 2006 17:32
> To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
> Subject: [Ibogaine] Pot calling the Kettle Black?
>
>
>     Hey…uh, Biscuit Boy,
>     What’s the matter? Do you NOT like my debate with Nick, or do
> you just
> not like the fact that Ann paid me a compliment? Do you agree with > Nick’s
> idea that only emotionally repressed individuals receive any sort of > high
> from opiates? If you’ve got something to say, why not come out
> and say it?
> Have you never done opiates? Or any drugs? What gives you the
> right to judge
> Ann? Personally I don’t care if her comment was influened by a
> whole gram of
> Mexican brown! Better a nice compliment from someone high, than a
> nasty one
> from someone sober! Now, if I’ve misconstrued your intent, I
> apologize, but
> I would appreciate a logical explanation rather than a low-blow
> insinuation.
>
> Hi Alan,
>  only emotionally repressed individuals receive any sort of high from
> opiates – I did not make such an extreme statement. I said there was a
> relationship between the two, that the bliss experienced on
> opiates relates
> to the degree of ego-repressed feeling. You grab stuff,
> exaggerate it to an
> extreme position and then criticize your own interpretation.
> Welcome to the
> wonderful world of manipulation! I see a great career in media or
> politics
> opening up before you.
> BTW, this IS the classic trait for someone who is using belief
> patterns to
> hold down feelings. If something challenges the belief then repressed
> feelings start to rise “OMG, what if I’m really like so!” or whatever > and
> the mind acts to push the feelings back down again, rearranging
> what is said
> into something it can criticize and expel. Frankly, I also see
> myself doing
> it at times! Letting go of beliefs can be a toughie.
> Nick
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> From:  biscuitboy714@aol.com
> Reply-To:  ibogaine@mindvox.com
> To:  ibogaine@mindvox.com
> Subject:  Re: [Ibogaine] Opiate effects
> Date:  Sun, 02 Apr 2006 11:05:09 -0400
> >Yea Ann, tell us how much heroin you shot last night. He He I
> >couldn’t help it. I love you Mamma           Randy
> >
> >—–Original Message—–
> >From: Alan Hehe <a.h.veil68@hotmail.com>
> >To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
> >Sent: Sat, 01 Apr 2006 11:15:03 -0500
> >Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Opiate effects
> >
> >     Hey Ann,
> >
> >     Thank you for the compliment…Somebody’s got to try to counter
> >his crazy ideas with some sense. Feel free to write me anytime..I
> >really enjoy talking to people on this list and hearing their
> >stories…Oh, don’t tell anyone, but I studied semantics and debate
> >in high school! Just kidding…about the hush hush, as anyone will
> >be able to read this. Oh, heck–LOL! I’m 37, and High school is but
> >a distant, mainly unplesant experience…except when I would catch
> >my English teacher making grammatical or syntactical mistakes,
> >before they moved me into an A.P. college-level class…And no, I’m
> >not conceited, either..but I do enjoy debate! Everyone has certain
> >qualities at which they excel, and others at which they are
> >deficient. I make up for my skill in English by being a retard in
> >math! Plus, I couldn’t be that smart or I wouldn’t be here, looking
> >for a way out of the hell-hole I dug for myself….and despite
> >having a really shitty childhood, I take complete responsibility for
> >my current position in
> >life……………………………….Wishing you the best in
> >all…….Alan.
> >
> >
> >
> >  ——–
> >From: “Ann B. Mullikin” <think@francomm.com>
> >Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
> >To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
> >Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Opiate effects
> >Date: Sat, 1 Apr 2006 10:04:20 -0500
> >
> >  No, I am not Nick but…..
> >
> >  Bravo, Alan.  I surely do appreciate the way you use your brain –
> >TO THINK AND TO REASON.  Its good stuff.  Keep on.
> >
> >ann
> >think@francomm.com
> >
> >  —– Original Message —–
> >From: Alan Hehe
> >To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
> >Sent: Friday, March 31, 2006 4:49 PM
> >Subject: [Ibogaine] Opiate effects
> >
> >
> >    Hey Nick,
> >
> >     I wanted to say that, although I was basically right, I believe
> >(and according to the research I’ve done) about the reason opiates
> >cause pleasure, I wasn’t entirely correct about the natural opiates
> >(dopamine,etc) having an effect on mood. They do have an affect on
> >mood..but then again, so does euphoria..in fact, it could be said to
> >be a mood unto itself. Here’s a little medical info for: Opiates
> >(heroin, morphine, etc.)
> >
> >  The human body naturally produces its own opiate-like substances
> >and uses them as neurotransmitters. These substances include
> >endorphins, enkephalins, and dynorphin, often collectively known as
> >endogenous opioids. Endogenous opioids modulate our reactions to
> >painful stimuli. They also regulate vital functions such as hunger
> >and thirst and are involved in mood control, immune response, and
> >other processes.
> >
> >The reason that opiates such as heroin and morphine affect us so
> >powerfully is that these exogenous substances bind to the same
> >receptors as our endogenous opioids. There are three kinds of
> >receptors widely distributed throughout the brain: mu, delta, and
> >kappa receptors.
> >
> >These receptors, through second messengers, influence the likelihood
> >that ion channels will open, which in certain cases reduces the
> >excitability of neurons. This reduced excitability is the likely
> >source of the euphoric effect of opiates and appears to be mediated
> >by the mu and delta receptors.
> >
> >This euphoric effect also appears to involve another mechanism in
> >which the GABA-inhibitory interneurons of the ventral tegmental area
> >come into play. By attaching to their mu receptors, exogenous
> >opioids reduce the amount of GABA released (see animation).
> >Normally, GABA reduces the amount of dopamine released in the
> >nucleus accumbens. By inhibiting this inhibitor, the opiates
> >ultimately increase the amount of dopamine produced and the amount
> >of pleasure felt.
> >
> >Chronic consumption of opiates inhibits the production of cAMP, but
> >this inhibition is offset in the long run by other cAMP production
> >mechanisms. When no opiates are available, this increased cAMP
> >production capacity comes to the fore and results in neural
> >hyperactivity and the sensation of craving the drug.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >——–
> >  Make FREE PC-to-PC calls with MSN Messenger. Get it now!
> >/]=———————————————————————=
> >[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands:
> >http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
> >\]=———————————————————————=
> >[/
> >
> >
> >——–
> >  Find just what you’re after with the new, more precise MSN Search
> >- try it now!
> >/]=———————————————————————=
> >[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands:
> >http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
> >\]=———————————————————————=
> >[/
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >/]=————————————————————–
> ——-=[\
> >[%] Ibogaine List Commands:
> >http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
> >
> >\]=————————————————————–
> ——-=[/
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
> Be one of the first to try Windows Live Mail
> /]=—————————————————————
> ——=[\
> [%] Ibogaine List Commands: > http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html
> [%]
> \]=—————————————————————
> ——=[/
>
>
>
>
>
> Play Trivia with MSN Messenger for a chance to win an XBOXT 360
> prize pack!
> /]=—————————————————————
> ——=[\
> [%] Ibogaine List Commands: > http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html
> [%]
> \]=—————————————————————
> ——=[/
>
>
>
>
> /]=—————————————————————
> ——=[\
>  [%] Ibogaine List Commands:
> http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
>
> \]=—————————————————————
> ——=[/
>
>

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

See if you’ve won, play MSN Search and Win /]=———————————————————————=[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%] \]=———————————————————————=[/

Get turn-by-turn driving directions you can really use – Windows Live Local is here! /]=———————————————————————=[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%] \]=———————————————————————=[/

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: biscuitboy714@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Pot calling the Kettle Black?
Date: April 5, 2006 at 9:35:55 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Alan, I was told one time to never judge a book by it’s cover, and I try and live by that. I’m 48 years old and from the south. Kentucky. I’m living in NYC for the time being, working and doing therapy. I’ve been called a red neck, and I’ve been called a free thinkin’ hippie too. Well in the 70’s anyway. I think maybe you are too quick to judge Bill. People in the south are loyal to the bone. I’m the same way, I just pick who to be loyal to very carefully. I feel sorry for George Bush. He’s an idiot amongst giants. I hate what they are doing. I’m pro freedom. Whatever that means to each person. Fuck it, I don’t care what people do but I like to hear about it just for shits and giggles so to speak. I think you should stay on the list and laugh at what is funny, delete what bores you, and reply to what you are passionate about. Works for me. And on another note……….I’m reading Phillip K Dick and Henry Miller at the same time. Will my brain explode?                “Free your mind and your ass will follow”   (George Clinton)                     Randy

—–Original Message—–
From: Alan Hehe <a.h.veil68@hotmail.com>
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Wed, 05 Apr 2006 03:05:04 -0400
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Pot calling the Kettle Black?

Hey Randy..this list is so screwed, so you probably never got the post, but I apologized to you days ago, about the misunderstanding with your mother…who I had no idea really WAS your mother, or I probably wouldn’t have said anything, or if I did, it wouldn’t have been as caustic…Actually, I HAVE totally chilled out–by just staying away from this list, and all the posts, which I can’t seem to delete…they go away, and then come right back again! The thing with Nick really was a debate that just got a little too heated, and I even said I was sorry to him…though I may regret it–but I hope not. The only person that has REALLY pissed me off is that redneck Billy Goat..or Boy, whatever he calls himself. Anyone that has George Bush as a hero, and thinks that if you don’t like to eat meat because of the inhumane slaughter of animals, then you must be a Hindu cow lover. Nick at least is intelligent, and can debate somewhat intelligently…but that guy! I just don’t like red-neck, republican, types, who think we should be made to do what he thinks is right, or made NOT to do what he thinks is wrong. He actually BELIEVES the disinformation the Govt. puts out, I think…and don’t get me wrong, I DO respect the soldier, and sometimes war is neccesary..but what’s going on in the world today, with the U.S. policing practically the entire world and calling themselves (I live here but I refuse to identify myself with current policy) the Moral Majority! Basically, I just hate to be told what or what not to do–IF it doesn’t hurt anyone else, or infringe on their freedom…now, you could say that being pro-choice, with the abortion issue, is hurting someone else..but I think, up to a point, that a foetus is still just a part of the woman…I don’t like abortion, I like prevention..but sometimes it’s the lesser evil, IMO..I also think it’s very hipocritical to get all up in arms cause it’s our precious, oh so special children (or so right wing radicals call foetus’) but have no problem with the slaughtering of thousands of animals a day!  Well…I didn’t mean to carry-on so long. I’m getting ready to move, plus I’m in the process of learning some new songs on my guitar–or as Billy Boy would say, my gee-tar! So I won’t be around that much for a while anyway. I appreciate your advice, Randy–or BiscuitBoy, whichever you prefer–and I certainly have no beef with you–and you got a great Mom. It’s kinda weird to me that you can have that much openness with your mom..I envy you a bit…my mom’s 77 and from a whole different generation,,yeah, she had me late–I’m 38. Peace!

——–

From:  “cm” <cm67@optusnet.com.au>
Reply-To:  ibogaine@mindvox.com
To:  <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Subject:  Re: [Ibogaine] Pot calling the Kettle Black?
Date:  Wed, 5 Apr 2006 12:24:24 +1000
“fried my brain with ibogaine”
msg on the list from alan again
will this be the one to finally send me insane

sorry randy, that was the best a very sleepy chi chi could come up
with.
no offense directed at you alan.
chi x
—– Original Message —– From: <biscuitboy714@aol.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Wednesday, April 05, 2006 10:53 AM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Pot calling the Kettle Black?

Alan, dood, chill out willya? Let’s
see……………..uh……………..I am enjoying the debate
with Nick,………..my mom is quick to compliment intellegence, I
agree, No I don’t agree that only emotionally repressed people get
high off of opiates, actually I didn’t catch that, everybody gets
high off of opiates, it never fails if you do enough.
uh……………..I’ve done every opiate I ever came across until
I did Ibogaine. I seem to be able to pass on them now. I’m still
laughing at the thought of my mother working up a shot of brown. OK
so I answered your question. Let me make a point. LIGHTEN UP
BEAVIS……..dude I appreciate yoour passion, I was the same way
when I first found the list. I was not a happy camper. Sticking
around here I have lost my mind and now I try and find humor in the
little things in life. It gets me by. Please by no means take me
serious. I have fried my brain with Ibogaine. Hell that rymes
“fried my brain with Ibogaine…………somebody finish the line.
I’ll be serious tomorrow, I want to laugh today. “when the spoon is
hot and the needle’s shot……..drift away” Alice in Chains Randy

—–Original Message—–
From: Alan Hehe <a.h.veil68@hotmail.com>
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Sun, 02 Apr 2006 12:31:45 -0400
Subject: [Ibogaine] Pot calling the Kettle Black?

Hey…uh, Biscuit Boy,

What’s the matter? Do you NOT like my debate with Nick, or do you
just not like the fact that Ann paid me a compliment? Do you agree
with Nick’s idea that only emotionally repressed individuals
receive any sort of high from opiates? If you’ve got something to
say, why not come out and say it? Have you never done opiates? Or
any drugs? What gives you the right to judge Ann? Personally I
don’t care if her comment was influened by a whole gram of Mexican
brown! Better a nice compliment from someone high, than a nasty one
from someone sober! Now, if I’ve misconstrued your intent, I
apologize, but I would appreciate a logical explanation rather than
a low-blow insinuation.

——–

From: biscuitboy714@aol.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Opiate effects
Date: Sun, 02 Apr 2006 11:05:09 -0400
>Yea Ann, tell us how much heroin you shot last night. He He I
>couldn’t help it. I love you Mamma Randy
>
>—–Original Message—–
>From: Alan Hehe <a.h.veil68@hotmail.com>
>To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
>Sent: Sat, 01 Apr 2006 11:15:03 -0500
>Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Opiate effects
>
> Hey Ann,
>
> Thank you for the compliment…Somebody’s got to try to counter
>his crazy ideas with some sense. Feel free to write me anytime..I
>really enjoy talking to people on this list and hearing their
>stories…Oh, don’t tell anyone, but I studied semantics and
debate
>in high school! Just kidding…about the hush hush, as anyone
will
>be able to read this. Oh, heck–LOL! I’m 37, and High school is
but
>a distant, mainly unplesant experience…except when I would
catch
>my English teacher making grammatical or syntactical mistakes,
>before they moved me into an A.P. college-level class…And no,
I’m
>not conceited, either..but I do enjoy debate! Everyone has
certain
>qualities at which they excel, and others at which they are
>deficient. I make up for my skill in English by being a retard in
>math! Plus, I couldn’t be that smart or I wouldn’t be here,
looking
>for a way out of the hell-hole I dug for myself….and despite
>having a really shitty childhood, I take complete responsibility
for
>my current position in
>life……………………………….Wishing you the best in
>all…….Alan.
>
>
>
> ——–
>From: “Ann B. Mullikin” <think@francomm.com>
>Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
>To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
>Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Opiate effects
>Date: Sat, 1 Apr 2006 10:04:20 -0500
>
> No, I am not Nick but…..
>
> Bravo, Alan. I surely do appreciate the way you use your brain –
>TO THINK AND TO REASON. Its good stuff. Keep on.
> ann
>think@francomm.com
>
> —– Original Message —–
>From: Alan Hehe
>To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
>Sent: Friday, March 31, 2006 4:49 PM
>Subject: [Ibogaine] Opiate effects
>
>
> Hey Nick,
>
> I wanted to say that, although I was basically right, I believe
>(and according to the research I’ve done) about the reason
opiates
>cause pleasure, I wasn’t entirely correct about the natural
opiates
>(dopamine,etc) having an effect on mood. They do have an affect
on
>mood..but then again, so does euphoria..in fact, it could be said
to
>be a mood unto itself. Here’s a little medical info for: Opiates
>(heroin, morphine, etc.)
>
> The human body naturally produces its own opiate-like substances
>and uses them as neurotransmitters. These substances include
>endorphins, enkephalins, and dynorphin, often collectively known
as
>endogenous opioids. Endogenous opioids modulate our reactions to
>painful stimuli. They also regulate vital functions such as
hunger
>and thirst and are involved in mood control, immune response, and
>other processes.
>
>The reason that opiates such as heroin and morphine affect us so
>powerfully is that these exogenous substances bind to the same
>receptors as our endogenous opioids. There are three kinds of
>receptors widely distributed throughout the brain: mu, delta, and
>kappa receptors.
>
>These receptors, through second messengers, influence the
likelihood
>that ion channels will open, which in certain cases reduces the
>excitability of neurons. This reduced excitability is the likely
>source of the euphoric effect of opiates and appears to be
mediated
>by the mu and delta receptors.
>
>This euphoric effect also appears to involve another mechanism in
>which the GABA-inhibitory interneurons of the ventral tegmental
area
>come into play. By attaching to their mu receptors, exogenous
>opioids reduce the amount of GABA released (see animation).
>Normally, GABA reduces the amount of dopamine released in the
>nucleus accumbens. By inhibiting this inhibitor, the opiates
>ultimately increase the amount of dopamine produced and the
amount
>of pleasure felt.
>
>Chronic consumption of opiates inhibits the production of cAMP,
but
>this inhibition is offset in the long run by other cAMP
production
>mechanisms. When no opiates are available, this increased cAMP
>production capacity comes to the fore and results in neural
>hyperactivity and the sensation of craving the drug.
>
>
>
>
>——–
> Make FREE PC-to-PC calls with MSN Messenger. Get it now!

>/]=———————————————————————

=
>[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands:
>http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]

>\]=———————————————————————

=
>[/
>
>
>——–
> Find just what you’re after with the new, more precise MSN
Search
>- try it now!

>/]=———————————————————————

=
>[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands:
>http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]

>\]=———————————————————————

=
>[/
>
>
>
>

>/]=———————————————————————

=[\
>[%] Ibogaine List Commands:
>http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
>

>\]=———————————————————————

=[/
>
>

——–
Be one of the first to try Windows Live Mail
/]=——————————————————————–
-=
[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands:
http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=——————————————————————–
-=
[/

/]=——————————————————————–
-=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands:
http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]

\]=——————————————————————–
-=[/

/]=———————————————————————
=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands:
http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]

\]=———————————————————————
=[/

——–
Play Trivia with MSN Messenger for a chance to win an XBOXT 360 prize pack!   /]=———————————————————————=
[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%] \]=———————————————————————=
[/
/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: “Nick Sandberg” <nick227@tiscali.co.uk>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Stop getting trapped:
Date: April 5, 2006 at 8:31:49 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Ed!

I see that once again you are posting without including the original message, despite like stacks of previous requests not to! I mean on most lists this isn’t such a big deal, but with Patrick’s random messaging service, coupled with the relative attention span of myself and many other list people (< housefly) it can get to make things a little tricky. BUT, I will assume that you are replying to my reply, so…

Actually, I do also sleep for hours some nights. Which I didn’t write before, it’s just that once a week or so I like to push it out more and not sleep. Am I aware of when I am doing it? Yes, I think I feel like a little excitement, a little more of an inner journey, a walk on the wild side. I think it’s this that fuels my craving for sleeplessness. I sleep very easily when I do, virtually never have insomnia, only with heavy stress. Not much into creativity, more emptiness, but that’s just me.

Sleep also not such a big thing for Bwiti, I recall from the Cameroun. Standard 3 night ceremony, Ngoze, you don’t sleep a wink – dance all night and chill all day. The head woman, Kombo I think, shouts at you if you drop off. I recall they do this about once a month, the group I saw.

Generally, I guess we are also on slightly different tacks here. I’m really talking more about using regular periodic sleep deprivation therapeutically or just to feel more alive. You’re looking more at background sleep, I think. Could be I’m wrong. Anyway, hope I am the person you wanted to reply. If not, you know why!

Nick

—–Original Message—–
From: Edfriedrichs@aol.com [mailto:Edfriedrichs@aol.com]
Sent: 05 April 2006 01:55
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Stop getting trapped:

When I challenge my own theories, I ask myself “Are there “waking” ways of replacing REM-Sleep?”  My answer has to do with extremely “creative” past times.  You certainly sound “CREATIVE!”  Maybe that’s why you’re getting by??????        Are you aware of when in your life you stopping sleeping normally…..what reason did you give to yourself for that?  Two to three hours of Slow-Wave-Stage Sleep is all that is necessary, along with 1-2 hours of REM.  The rest of our usual eight hours is spent in shallow Stages I and II, with us not understanding what those stages do.  Our brains differ, probably genetically, in re to sleep, but we know very little about that.  Maybe you’re an extreme exception, so I wouldn’t expect your clients to fall into your catagory.  Nevertheless, it’s all very interesting.  Dr. Ed

From: “Nick Sandberg” <nick227@tiscali.co.uk>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] RE:anger
Date: April 5, 2006 at 8:12:49 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Alan,

I was merely expressing where I am with things now. That’s my truth, man. If it doesn’t make sense to you, or whatever, I guess that’s how it is.

What do I believe? Oh God! Um, the computer monitor seems to be in front of me…because it just is, I can no longer be arsed with metaphysical stuff about “is it inside of me or outside of me”, and The stream of thoughts passing through becoming words in front of my eyes ARE mine! Again, because they just are. I have no way to prove either of these two positions so, yes, they are beliefs. Other than that, no so many beliefs oh and I like to live totally, without having to bother with all the interpretation, the endless programming of the mind trying to understand itself. Yeah, totality is cool, and mindy discussions just turn me off these days.

Detachment? Detachment is pure bullshit. More sack-o-shit dualistic spiritual manipulative twaddle, and occasionally needed. Life…it’s a fucking mystery, there’s no possibility for the mind to understand fuck all of it, except by totally compromising yourself. And who wants to do that? That’s where I am

Books? Sorry, don’t read them. Burning’s cool! (Just kidding)

Nick

—–Original Message—–
From: Alan Hehe [mailto:a.h.veil68@hotmail.com]
Sent: 05 April 2006 08:58
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] RE:anger

Nick, I don’t understand how meditating, or exploring different belief systems, keeps one from confronting himself, or from avoiding feelings. For me, the only way that you can get in touch with how you truly feel and think, is to stop talking to yourself (turn off the internal monologue), let your mind be quiet, and just watch your thoughts, from a detached point of view..and eventually all the loud voices–which usually aren’t really you, but all the crap we absorb from the endless streams of information, disinformation, advertising, other peoples words, etc. When the mind finally quiets down, there’s a very soft voice, the voice of your higher self, and all you have to do is pose a question in your mind, and you will know immediately whether it’s a good thing for you or not. I do not repress my feelings, either–you seem to be making contradictory statements…I release anger, in words, and then you say, “oh, he must have alot of repressed anger and emotions.”?  No, I don’t because by letting myself BE angry, I’ve let it out, not repressed it. When I’m sad, I cry….We’re all equipped with ways of dealing with emotions…but sometimes, you need to reign in your emotions a little and use your MIND. Also, by your statements about “I used to believe that, too, but now..” that you think you are above or beyond me. Have you ever read any of Robert Anton Wilson’s non-fictional books, like Prometheus Rising?  And I don’t think Freud or Jung were “cool”…I think trying to be “cool” is being false to yourself…but at the same time, it’s a cruel world, and if you go around letting all your emotions wide out all the time, you are going to eventually run into trouble. I don’t like your inference of superiority, but then again I don’t truly care, either. We must all walk our own paths, and pride certainly does come before a fall. Nevertheless, I am interested in what you REALLY think, besides the idea that everyone pushes alot of feelings back, especially junkies. So now you think Freud is cool….so you must believe in his OEdipal theories, then, huh? Come on Nick, tell me what you really believe! And you really think therapists are just trying to help us, even though a person is viewed as “abnormal” if he’s too creative in his interpretation of those Rorsch Ink Blots? Finally, sometimes we just have to–not neccesarily “repress” our emotions, but certainly keep them under control…I use a punching bag to help relieve my anger–because if I tore into everyone that pissed me off, then I’d end up in some “anger management class”..and while you might think that’s good–or not–I don’t have the time for it. I am very emotionally active….so what makes you superior to me, and can you write an e-mail expressing what you believe, in many aspects, because I can’t get a grip on what you’re really driving at, Nick….Emotions are just one part of our makeup, Nick..and sometimes, even confronting repressed feelings, confronting the person who helped caused them doesn’t cure you…My mother did alot of things that truly hurt me as a child…I’ve confronted my anger and sorrow over it, and I’ve confronted her about some of it. But I would never tell her how truly deeply she hurt me, because I know she’s only human and all humans make mistakes, and I know she did her best. I simply love her too much to do that..and being able to do that, to not express your every tear or fear..well, that’s called maturity, Nick. But I know myself. Know thyself–Plato said that..very wise words. I’ll be looking for your email–if you can do it–explaining your “comprehensive” world view…you said I should listen instead of just reacting, so I’m ready when you are. Over’n’out.

From: “Nick Sandberg” <nick227@tiscali.co.uk>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] RE:anger
Date: Tue, 4 Apr 2006 22:11:28 +0100

Hi Alan,

Fair enough! You seem like a forthright guy to me. I have done a lot of things that you talk about also, and believed the same stuff too. We are probably quite similar. I have also been “too clever” for the therapists in the past. I guess I thought it was like some game of cat and mouse and I didn’t connect to the reality of someone who was actually trying to help me. I missed that bit because I figured I knew it all better. Life had to get more desperate for me so that I could start to see that, for all my cleverness, very few of my emotional needs were actually getting met, and that in reality I needed help. Yeah, and I did the “teachings” scene too, the week-long satsangs on Goa beaches and “enlightenment intensives” in Poona. Thankfully all I got from that was that my only real responsibility was to actually take on what I was carrying around, to stop avoiding myself in search of some teaching that underneath was allowing me to just bullshit my way out of feeling stuff. I couldn’t really give a toss about philosophy or spirituality these days (well, getting there slowly!) and am still kind of grateful I was never deluded enough to try and become a Buddhist, which is what happens to a lot of angry young guys who don’t want to feel anymore. Poor souls. Yeah, Freud always seemed grossly uncool to me and Jung the opposite, nowadays it’s more the other way round. The world of concepts, with its “ego” and all these things that had to be “overcome,” man what a deranged trip that is. Just the same old parental conditioning coming back round again, you gotta drop this you gotta overcome that. Poor old Carl, trying to put everything into a map, with all those long, long books. I would love to have put him into a Humaniversity AUM meditation and let him experience the bliss beyond fear. So simple. But that’s just me. I guess his protege Wilhelm Reich still seems pretty cool to me. The Function of the Orgasm is such a great name for a book. I would read it except I don’t read books! I was punk in London in the 80s too, getting wasted in the Fox and Gossips, going to see the Ramones at the Academy, living in squats in Camden arguing with goths. And politics, and conspiracy theories. I’m still in the US who’s who for writing conspiracy theories. Yeah, maybe we’re the same person!

Nick

—–Original Message—–
From: Alan Hehe [mailto:a.h.veil68@hotmail.com]
Sent: 04 April 2006 21:17
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] RE:anger

Nick-
Perhaps I have been a little hard on you…it is true that I came from a traumatic background…I grew up fighting, both with my fists and my mind. But let me say this: I did not “scour” the internet looking for the info I posted for you. Believe it or not, it was the second site I came to. I agree with some of your theories, but I don’t agree with the way in which you choose to deal with them.
As far as being a psychonaut, I have travelled–on mushroom, L>S>D and Dextromethorphan to places you wouldn’t believe. I also do alot of meditating…I’ve always had a deep interest in Eastern philosophies, especially Zen and Tibetan Buddhism. And what I find is that Jesus, Lao-tse, Buddha, Mohammad, and many other spiritual teachers preach basically the same thing: love all (including animals..which we are at our most basic level), do not get attached to material things, that death is just a passge to another state (although here the different religions begin to show their differences more..at least APPARENTLY) and to avoid the ego-trap. I try to live by these teachings, but often fail.
As far as the whole “treatment” aspect of addiction goes, I believe some people need it and some people don’t. For me, it doesn’t work…in fact, when I was a teen I attempted suicide and for a time I was seeing a psychologist…but he got no-where with me, and this is what he said, in so many words: that I was too intelligent, too knowledgeable about psychology for him to treat me. I knew all the tricks…I knew what he wanted to hear and what would cause him to make notes in his little book. I already knew basically how a “normal person” is supposed to interpret those Rorsch Ink Blots. I also think alot of psychology is just alot of hogwash!  I do like some of Jung’s work, especially his research on archetypes and the collective unconsciousness and such…but his predecessor, his teacher? He (Freud) was one of the most psychologically disturbed people to ever foul our minds!
Yes, I do react, perhaps a little too seriously…and it’s not really that my beliefs are being threatened…I don’t actually have that many beliefs, but the few I have I do feel strongly about. So…I’m sorry for being so tough on you. Please don’t make me regret saying that…no-one is always right, Nick, or rarely ever entirely right–including me. I know alot of people who, when they read the part about me having a high I.Q., or being intelligent, will think: He can’t be that smart if he tried to kill himself! And they will be both right…and wrong. People in the West usually think something has to be either yes or no, right or wrong, on or off. And mostly that is the case–but not always. Eastern philosophy allows for a middle point, and understands how negatives and positives define each other….Being intelligent, you learn alot of things about the world that are not nice at all…you can’t have the “bliss” of ignorance, like some…You know that eating animals, unless that’s all there is, and then you thank the animal for giving ITS life so YOU could live, is usually wrong…I still have relapses…I haven’t always been a vegetarian. I also believe strongly in moderation. When you’re intelligent enough, you see through the lies of the Govt! You can’t lose yourself in silly T.V shows…you see ALL…and despite all the natural beauty, and the fact that the universe if filled with an energy that radiates love, you also see the cruelty and stupidity of your fellow man…yet still try to love him.
Well, that’s it. I don’t want to be accussed of writing too long of an e-mail again. But if “mind-y” means intelligent, than I plead guilty. But I assure you I am not a nerd. I’m outgowing, used to be pretty good with the ladies (till I made a commitment to one), can fight like a tiger, and love old Punk rock! So don’t try to pigenhole me!

From:  “Nick Sandberg” <nick227@tiscali.co.uk>
Reply-To:  ibogaine@mindvox.com
To:  <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Subject:  RE: [Ibogaine] Pot calling the Kettle Black?
Date:  Tue, 4 Apr 2006 12:45:47 +0100
>
>
> > —–Original Message—–
> > From: Preston Peet [mailto:ptpeet@nyc.rr.com]
> > Sent: 04 April 2006 12:20
> > To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
> > Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Pot calling the Kettle Black?
> >
> >
> > >But, working around addicts, what I see time and again is that they are
> > >either from high trauma backgrounds or are just acutely
> > sensitive, ie have
> > >trouble repressing feelings. To me there’s a pretty clear relationship
> > >between tendencies to opiate usage and the body’s ability to repress
> > >feeling.<
> >
> > And if this is the case Nick, why out of curiosity is this
> > necessarily a bad
> > thing? Or is it? Or are there gray areas here in your view?
> >
>
>Hi Preston,
>
>For sure there are grey areas. It’s just a tendency I notice in people using
>opiates. A lot either seem to be hypersensitive or coming from a fairly
>traumatic background. Both suggest to me they have a problem repressing
>feelings. It’s not a bad thing at all. It’s just an observation. We’re all
>just people at the end of the day.
>
>Nick
>
> > —–
> > “If God dropped acid, would he see people?”  ~Steven Wright
> >
> > Peace, love and lotsof respect.
> > Preston Peet
> > ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
> > Editor Underground- the Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations,
> > Astonishing Archaeology and Hidden History
> > Editor Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs
> > Editor http://www.drugwar.com
> > Columnist HighTimes mag/.com
> > Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
> > Columnist New York Waste
> > Etc.
> >
> > —– Original Message —–
> > From: Nick Sandberg
> > To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
> > Sent: Tuesday, April 04, 2006 5:01 AM
> > Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Pot calling the Kettle Black?
> >
> >
> > Alan,
> >
> > To be honest, I find you wrapped up so tight I am a bit scared to even
> > communicate with you. I don’t know where things will go for you. I mean,
> > just the suggestion that you are using opiates to hold down feelings and
> > you’re at like defcon2 or something. Why not just check out why
> > what I write
> > brings up so much feeling in you? You think anger is created by events
> > external to yourself? It can be triggered, for sure. But you
> > gotta own your
> > part of it. For me, you have every trait of someone who is very
> > strongly in
> > denial. You create some whole drama out of a few comments I make about
> > opiates, feelings and bliss and seem convinced that you only use them to
> > give you bliss or something. I’m just pushing out a little energy in the
> > other direction. That’s all. Why do you seem to regard this as
> > some form of
> > abuse? I find you wrapped up tight, guy, really.
> >
> > I make a comment – “If you experience bliss from an analgesic it
> > is because
> > your body is struggling to hold down a lot of feelings your ego
> > has decided
> > it doesn’t want to have” and you create from it “only emotionally
> > repressed
> > individuals receive any sort of high from opiates.” To me that’s
> > exaggeration. Ok, maybe not so much but it’s there. You also try
> > and justify
> > your own position by apparently scouring the net for some neurochemical
> > stuff that says it isn’t so. I mean, to me that’s just a total defense
> > reaction. I am not trying to create some big picture of how
> > things are, some
> > all-encompassing truth about addiction, my experience is that no
> > such thing
> > exists. I’m just pushing out a bit of energy. Yeah, maybe
> > neurochemists have
> > discovered how opiates work. Maybe. If so, it’s great. And I’m
> > happy to take
> > this new perspective in. And I’m happy to apologize if it’s upset you so
> > much. But, working around addicts, what I see time and again is that they
> > are either from high trauma backgrounds or are just acutely sensitive, ie
> > have trouble repressing feelings. To me there’s a pretty clear
> > relationship
> > between tendencies to opiate usage and the body’s ability to repress
> > feeling.
> >
> > Now you’re going to take ibogaine, which you seem to feel is holding out
> > some kind of “cure” for your drug usage. Or maybe I’m reading you
> > wrong. I
> > certainly hope it’s good for you, man. And I don’t know what
> > iboga will do
> > for you personally, but what I do know is that it helps if you
> > are open to
> > honest self evaluation – that you can allow yourself to travel the many
> > corridors of the psyche, especially the ones where ordinarily it
> > looks a bit
> > scary. Plenty of people have taken the drug, seen some God or other, been
> > drug free for a few weeks or months, all totally valuable
> > experiences, and
> > then found themselves back using pretty soon. And a lot of people are
> > attracted to ibogaine because they think it’s some kind of treatment that
> > avoids formal rehab, avoids them having to be open and show their
> > feelings
> > in front of others. My experience is that it doesn’t really work
> > like that.
> >
> > All in all, I’d like to be a friend to you. My intention is not
> > bad. I just
> > like to feel a bit of emotional reality in people so I put energy out and
> > see how it goes. Helps me feel connected to people, coz otherwise
> > it’s just
> > the mind putting out what it thinks you want to hear and I don’t
> > find that
> > so satisfying really. Just another game.
> >
> > Nick
> >
> >
> >
> > —–Original Message—–
> > From: Alan Hehe [mailto:a.h.veil68@hotmail.com]
> > Sent: 04 April 2006 04:34
> > To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
> > Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Pot calling the Kettle Black?
> >
> >
> >   Nick…you are soooo full of shit. That’s exactly what you said, and
> > you’re lucky I don’t have the e-mail anymore or I’d shove it down your
> > lying, cyber throat!!!!!
> >      Come on..Preston, someone…does anyone have that email, the
> > one where
> > I posted the medical info I think might have his actual statement
> > on it….I
> > would appreciate if someone could send it back to me. Almost word
> > for word
> > what you said was (grammatical errors included) “Opiate is an
> > analgesic. It
> > stops feeling. Only someone with alot of repressed emotions receive bliss
> > from analgesics, like opiates….” (you also said something about
> > ego-orientation)…then you said “if you can think of another reason I’d
> > love to hear it.”  Now I’m positive that I want nothing more to do with
> > you…so let sleeping dogs lie, or I swear I will rip you
> > apart…and that
> > way, you won’t have to “be manipulated anymore!” You dug your own
> > grave with
> > a drstically stupid statement, and you’re too full of yourself to just
> > say…”hey, I was wrong”. Now, for the second time, BYE!!!!!
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > From: “Nick Sandberg” <nick227@tiscali.co.uk>
> > Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
> > To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
> > Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Pot calling the Kettle Black?
> > Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2006 08:53:07 +0100
> >
> >
> >
> > —–Original Message—–
> > From: Alan Hehe [mailto:a.h.veil68@hotmail.com]
> > Sent: 02 April 2006 17:32
> > To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
> > Subject: [Ibogaine] Pot calling the Kettle Black?
> >
> >
> >     Hey…uh, Biscuit Boy,
> >     What’s the matter? Do you NOT like my debate with Nick, or do
> > you just
> > not like the fact that Ann paid me a compliment? Do you agree with Nick’s
> > idea that only emotionally repressed individuals receive any sort of high
> > from opiates? If you’ve got something to say, why not come out
> > and say it?
> > Have you never done opiates? Or any drugs? What gives you the
> > right to judge
> > Ann? Personally I don’t care if her comment was influened by a
> > whole gram of
> > Mexican brown! Better a nice compliment from someone high, than a
> > nasty one
> > from someone sober! Now, if I’ve misconstrued your intent, I
> > apologize, but
> > I would appreciate a logical explanation rather than a low-blow
> > insinuation.
> >
> > Hi Alan,
> >  only emotionally repressed individuals receive any sort of high from
> > opiates – I did not make such an extreme statement. I said there was a
> > relationship between the two, that the bliss experienced on
> > opiates relates
> > to the degree of ego-repressed feeling. You grab stuff,
> > exaggerate it to an
> > extreme position and then criticize your own interpretation.
> > Welcome to the
> > wonderful world of manipulation! I see a great career in media or
> > politics
> > opening up before you.
> > BTW, this IS the classic trait for someone who is using belief
> > patterns to
> > hold down feelings. If something challenges the belief then repressed
> > feelings start to rise “OMG, what if I’m really like so!” or whatever and
> > the mind acts to push the feelings back down again, rearranging
> > what is said
> > into something it can criticize and expel. Frankly, I also see
> > myself doing
> > it at times! Letting go of beliefs can be a toughie.
> > Nick
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > From:  biscuitboy714@aol.com
> > Reply-To:  ibogaine@mindvox.com
> > To:  ibogaine@mindvox.com
> > Subject:  Re: [Ibogaine] Opiate effects
> > Date:  Sun, 02 Apr 2006 11:05:09 -0400
> > >Yea Ann, tell us how much heroin you shot last night. He He I
> > >couldn’t help it. I love you Mamma           Randy
> > >
> > >—–Original Message—–
> > >From: Alan Hehe <a.h.veil68@hotmail.com>
> > >To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
> > >Sent: Sat, 01 Apr 2006 11:15:03 -0500
> > >Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Opiate effects
> > >
> > >     Hey Ann,
> > >
> > >     Thank you for the compliment…Somebody’s got to try to counter
> > >his crazy ideas with some sense. Feel free to write me anytime..I
> > >really enjoy talking to people on this list and hearing their
> > >stories…Oh, don’t tell anyone, but I studied semantics and debate
> > >in high school! Just kidding…about the hush hush, as anyone will
> > >be able to read this. Oh, heck–LOL! I’m 37, and High school is but
> > >a distant, mainly unplesant experience…except when I would catch
> > >my English teacher making grammatical or syntactical mistakes,
> > >before they moved me into an A.P. college-level class…And no, I’m
> > >not conceited, either..but I do enjoy debate! Everyone has certain
> > >qualities at which they excel, and others at which they are
> > >deficient. I make up for my skill in English by being a retard in
> > >math! Plus, I couldn’t be that smart or I wouldn’t be here, looking
> > >for a way out of the hell-hole I dug for myself….and despite
> > >having a really shitty childhood, I take complete responsibility for
> > >my current position in
> > >life……………………………….Wishing you the best in
> > >all…….Alan.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >  ——–
> > >From: “Ann B. Mullikin” <think@francomm.com>
> > >Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
> > >To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
> > >Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Opiate effects
> > >Date: Sat, 1 Apr 2006 10:04:20 -0500
> > >
> > >  No, I am not Nick but…..
> > >
> > >  Bravo, Alan.  I surely do appreciate the way you use your brain –
> > >TO THINK AND TO REASON.  Its good stuff.  Keep on.
> > >
> > >ann
> > >think@francomm.com
> > >
> > >  —– Original Message —–
> > >From: Alan Hehe
> > >To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
> > >Sent: Friday, March 31, 2006 4:49 PM
> > >Subject: [Ibogaine] Opiate effects
> > >
> > >
> > >    Hey Nick,
> > >
> > >     I wanted to say that, although I was basically right, I believe
> > >(and according to the research I’ve done) about the reason opiates
> > >cause pleasure, I wasn’t entirely correct about the natural opiates
> > >(dopamine,etc) having an effect on mood. They do have an affect on
> > >mood..but then again, so does euphoria..in fact, it could be said to
> > >be a mood unto itself. Here’s a little medical info for: Opiates
> > >(heroin, morphine, etc.)
> > >
> > >  The human body naturally produces its own opiate-like substances
> > >and uses them as neurotransmitters. These substances include
> > >endorphins, enkephalins, and dynorphin, often collectively known as
> > >endogenous opioids. Endogenous opioids modulate our reactions to
> > >painful stimuli. They also regulate vital functions such as hunger
> > >and thirst and are involved in mood control, immune response, and
> > >other processes.
> > >
> > >The reason that opiates such as heroin and morphine affect us so
> > >powerfully is that these exogenous substances bind to the same
> > >receptors as our endogenous opioids. There are three kinds of
> > >receptors widely distributed throughout the brain: mu, delta, and
> > >kappa receptors.
> > >
> > >These receptors, through second messengers, influence the likelihood
> > >that ion channels will open, which in certain cases reduces the
> > >excitability of neurons. This reduced excitability is the likely
> > >source of the euphoric effect of opiates and appears to be mediated
> > >by the mu and delta receptors.
> > >
> > >This euphoric effect also appears to involve another mechanism in
> > >which the GABA-inhibitory interneurons of the ventral tegmental area
> > >come into play. By attaching to their mu receptors, exogenous
> > >opioids reduce the amount of GABA released (see animation).
> > >Normally, GABA reduces the amount of dopamine released in the
> > >nucleus accumbens. By inhibiting this inhibitor, the opiates
> > >ultimately increase the amount of dopamine produced and the amount
> > >of pleasure felt.
> > >
> > >Chronic consumption of opiates inhibits the production of cAMP, but
> > >this inhibition is offset in the long run by other cAMP production
> > >mechanisms. When no opiates are available, this increased cAMP
> > >production capacity comes to the fore and results in neural
> > >hyperactivity and the sensation of craving the drug.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >——–
> > >  Make FREE PC-to-PC calls with MSN Messenger. Get it now!
> > >/]=———————————————————————=
> > >[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands:
> > >http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
> > >\]=———————————————————————=
> > >[/
> > >
> > >
> > >——–
> > >  Find just what you’re after with the new, more precise MSN Search
> > >- try it now!
> > >/]=———————————————————————=
> > >[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands:
> > >http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
> > >\]=———————————————————————=
> > >[/
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >/]=————————————————————–
> > ——-=[\
> > >[%] Ibogaine List Commands:
> > >http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
> > >
> > >\]=————————————————————–
> > ——-=[/
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Be one of the first to try Windows Live Mail
> > /]=—————————————————————
> > ——=[\
> > [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html
> > [%]
> > \]=—————————————————————
> > ——=[/
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Play Trivia with MSN Messenger for a chance to win an XBOXT 360
> > prize pack!
> > /]=—————————————————————
> > ——=[\
> > [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html
> > [%]
> > \]=—————————————————————
> > ——=[/
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > /]=—————————————————————
> > ——=[\
> >  [%] Ibogaine List Commands:
> > http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
> >
> > \]=—————————————————————
> > ——=[/
> >
> >
>
>
>   /]=———————————————————————=[\
>  [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
>   \]=———————————————————————=[/
>
>

See if you’ve won, play MSN Search and Win /]=———————————————————————=[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%] \]=———————————————————————=[/

Get turn-by-turn driving directions you can really use – Windows Live Local is here! /]=———————————————————————=[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%] \]=———————————————————————=[/

From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] (OT) old cbgb’s gig
Date: April 5, 2006 at 7:58:12 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi all,
I realize I’ve been posting lots of photos lately. Here’re are three more (I’ve attached them too Callie), from a show V and I did with our old band at CBGB’s about 8 years ago, back in one of my mohawk phases. This was taken during my methadone days as well. (So is this on or off topic?) Funny how I’m not a big bloated fatty either, even on whatever I was on at this time, 70 a day I think (not my highest nor lowest regular dosage either, but I stayed at 70s for a little while, before dropping to 40 for a couple years).
And V is finally growing her hair back. Yaaa! Or, YIPPIE, to quote a friend. (I literally cried when she cut it all off. I was surprised how much it hurt when she woke me from a nap one day a couple years ago to tell me, “Hi honey, I cut off all my beautiful long red hair that you love so much…” or words to this effect anyway. Now I AM getting waaaay off topic, so I bid you all good day.)

Asbestos at CBGBs, April, 1998 (Me on guitar, DJ Ness on bass)
—–
“If God dropped acid, would he see people?”  ~Steven Wright

Peace, love and lotsof respect.
Preston Peet
ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor Underground- the Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations, Astonishing Archaeology and Hidden History
Editor Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Columnist HighTimes mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: “Nick Sandberg” <nick227@tiscali.co.uk>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] RE:anger
Date: April 5, 2006 at 6:51:08 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

—–Original Message—–
From: Preston Peet [mailto:ptpeet@nyc.rr.com]
Sent: 05 April 2006 10:22
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] RE:anger

I’m still in the US who’s who for writing conspiracy theories.<

Got anything online Nick?

Er, yes. www.nick2211.yage.net/chips.htm I wrote it 5 odd years ago not long
after taking ibogaine, as it happens. Kind of embarrassed by it more these
days but a lot of people still get in touch about it. I recall I was in a
bit of a state at the time. Nick

—–
“If God dropped acid, would he see people?”  ~Steven Wright

Peace, love and lotsof respect.
Preston Peet
ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor Underground- the Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations,
Astonishing Archaeology and Hidden History
Editor Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Columnist HighTimes mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —–
From: Nick Sandberg
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Tuesday, April 04, 2006 5:11 PM
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] RE:anger

Hi Alan,

Fair enough! You seem like a forthright guy to me. I have done a lot of
things that you talk about also, and believed the same stuff too. We are
probably quite similar. I have also been “too clever” for the
therapists in
the past. I guess I thought it was like some game of cat and mouse and I
didn’t connect to the reality of someone who was actually trying
to help me.
I missed that bit because I figured I knew it all better. Life had to get
more desperate for me so that I could start to see that, for all my
cleverness, very few of my emotional needs were actually getting met, and
that in reality I needed help. Yeah, and I did the “teachings” scene too,
the week-long satsangs on Goa beaches and “enlightenment intensives” in
Poona. Thankfully all I got from that was that my only real
responsibility
was to actually take on what I was carrying around, to stop
avoiding myself
in search of some teaching that underneath was allowing me to
just bullshit
my way out of feeling stuff. I couldn’t really give a toss about
philosophy
or spirituality these days (well, getting there slowly!) and am
still kind
of grateful I was never deluded enough to try and become a
Buddhist, which
is what happens to a lot of angry young guys who don’t want to
feel anymore.
Poor souls. Yeah, Freud always seemed grossly uncool to me and Jung the
opposite, nowadays it’s more the other way round. The world of concepts,
with its “ego” and all these things that had to be “overcome,” man what a
deranged trip that is. Just the same old parental conditioning
coming back
round again, you gotta drop this you gotta overcome that. Poor old Carl,
trying to put everything into a map, with all those long, long books. I
would love to have put him into a Humaniversity AUM meditation
and let him
experience the bliss beyond fear. So simple. But that’s just me.
I guess his
protege Wilhelm Reich still seems pretty cool to me. The Function of the
Orgasm is such a great name for a book. I would read it except I
don’t read
books! I was punk in London in the 80s too, getting wasted in the Fox and
Gossips, going to see the Ramones at the Academy, living in
squats in Camden
arguing with goths. And politics, and conspiracy theories. I’m
still in the
US who’s who for writing conspiracy theories. Yeah, maybe we’re the same
person!

Nick

—–Original Message—–
From: Alan Hehe [mailto:a.h.veil68@hotmail.com]
Sent: 04 April 2006 21:17
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] RE:anger

Nick-
Perhaps I have been a little hard on you…it is true that I
came from a
traumatic background…I grew up fighting, both with my fists and
my mind.
But let me say this: I did not “scour” the internet looking for
the info I
posted for you. Believe it or not, it was the second site I came
to. I agree
with some of your theories, but I don’t agree with the way in which you
choose to deal with them.
As far as being a psychonaut, I have travelled–on mushroom, L>S>D and
Dextromethorphan to places you wouldn’t believe. I also do alot of
meditating…I’ve always had a deep interest in Eastern philosophies,
especially Zen and Tibetan Buddhism. And what I find is that
Jesus, Lao-tse,
Buddha, Mohammad, and many other spiritual teachers preach basically the
same thing: love all (including animals..which we are at our most basic
level), do not get attached to material things, that death is
just a passge
to another state (although here the different religions begin to
show their
differences more..at least APPARENTLY) and to avoid the ego-trap.
I try to
live by these teachings, but often fail.
As far as the whole “treatment” aspect of addiction goes, I believe
some people need it and some people don’t. For me, it doesn’t work…in
fact, when I was a teen I attempted suicide and for a time I was seeing a
psychologist…but he got no-where with me, and this is what he
said, in so
many words: that I was too intelligent, too knowledgeable about
psychology
for him to treat me. I knew all the tricks…I knew what he
wanted to hear
and what would cause him to make notes in his little book. I already knew
basically how a “normal person” is supposed to interpret those Rorsch Ink
Blots. I also think alot of psychology is just alot of hogwash!
I do like
some of Jung’s work, especially his research on archetypes and the
collective unconsciousness and such…but his predecessor, his
teacher? He
(Freud) was one of the most psychologically disturbed people to ever foul
our minds!
Yes, I do react, perhaps a little too seriously…and it’s not really
that my beliefs are being threatened…I don’t actually have that many
beliefs, but the few I have I do feel strongly about. So…I’m sorry for
being so tough on you. Please don’t make me regret saying
that…no-one is
always right, Nick, or rarely ever entirely right–including me.
I know alot
of people who, when they read the part about me having a high
I.Q., or being
intelligent, will think: He can’t be that smart if he tried to
kill himself!
And they will be both right…and wrong. People in the West usually think
something has to be either yes or no, right or wrong, on or off.
And mostly
that is the case–but not always. Eastern philosophy allows for a middle
point, and understands how negatives and positives define each
other….Being intelligent, you learn alot of things about the world that
are not nice at all…you can’t have the “bliss” of ignorance, like
some…You know that eating animals, unless that’s all there is, and then
you thank the animal for giving ITS life so YOU could live, is usually
wrong…I still have relapses…I haven’t always been a
vegetarian. I also
believe strongly in moderation. When you’re intelligent enough, you see
through the lies of the Govt! You can’t lose yourself in silly T.V
shows…you see ALL…and despite all the natural beauty, and the
fact that
the universe if filled with an energy that radiates love, you
also see the
cruelty and stupidity of your fellow man…yet still try to love him.
Well, that’s it. I don’t want to be accussed of writing too
long of an
e-mail again. But if “mind-y” means intelligent, than I plead
guilty. But I
assure you I am not a nerd. I’m outgowing, used to be pretty good
with the
ladies (till I made a commitment to one), can fight like a tiger,
and love
old Punk rock! So don’t try to pigenhole me!

From:  “Nick Sandberg” <nick227@tiscali.co.uk>
Reply-To:  ibogaine@mindvox.com
To:  <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Subject:  RE: [Ibogaine] Pot calling the Kettle Black?
Date:  Tue, 4 Apr 2006 12:45:47 +0100

—–Original Message—–
From: Preston Peet [mailto:ptpeet@nyc.rr.com]
Sent: 04 April 2006 12:20
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Pot calling the Kettle Black?

But, working around addicts, what I see time and again is
that they are
either from high trauma backgrounds or are just acutely
sensitive, ie have
trouble repressing feelings. To me there’s a pretty clear
relationship
between tendencies to opiate usage and the body’s ability to repress
feeling.<

And if this is the case Nick, why out of curiosity is this
necessarily a bad
thing? Or is it? Or are there gray areas here in your view?

Hi Preston,

For sure there are grey areas. It’s just a tendency I notice in people
using
opiates. A lot either seem to be hypersensitive or coming from a fairly
traumatic background. Both suggest to me they have a problem repressing
feelings. It’s not a bad thing at all. It’s just an observation.
We’re all
just people at the end of the day.

Nick

—–
“If God dropped acid, would he see people?”  ~Steven Wright

Peace, love and lotsof respect.
Preston Peet
ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor Underground- the Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations,
Astonishing Archaeology and Hidden History
Editor Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Columnist HighTimes mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —–
From: Nick Sandberg
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Tuesday, April 04, 2006 5:01 AM
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Pot calling the Kettle Black?

Alan,

To be honest, I find you wrapped up so tight I am a bit scared to even
communicate with you. I don’t know where things will go for
you. I mean,
just the suggestion that you are using opiates to hold down
feelings and
you’re at like defcon2 or something. Why not just check out why
what I write
brings up so much feeling in you? You think anger is created by events
external to yourself? It can be triggered, for sure. But you
gotta own your
part of it. For me, you have every trait of someone who is very
strongly in
denial. You create some whole drama out of a few comments I make about
opiates, feelings and bliss and seem convinced that you only
use them to
give you bliss or something. I’m just pushing out a little
energy in the
other direction. That’s all. Why do you seem to regard this as
some form of
abuse? I find you wrapped up tight, guy, really.

I make a comment – “If you experience bliss from an analgesic it
is because
your body is struggling to hold down a lot of feelings your ego
has decided
it doesn’t want to have” and you create from it “only emotionally
repressed
individuals receive any sort of high from opiates.” To me that’s
exaggeration. Ok, maybe not so much but it’s there. You also try
and justify
your own position by apparently scouring the net for some
neurochemical
stuff that says it isn’t so. I mean, to me that’s just a total defense
reaction. I am not trying to create some big picture of how
things are, some
all-encompassing truth about addiction, my experience is that no
such thing
exists. I’m just pushing out a bit of energy. Yeah, maybe
neurochemists have
discovered how opiates work. Maybe. If so, it’s great. And I’m
happy to take
this new perspective in. And I’m happy to apologize if it’s
upset you so
much. But, working around addicts, what I see time and again is that
they
are either from high trauma backgrounds or are just acutely
sensitive,
ie
have trouble repressing feelings. To me there’s a pretty clear
relationship
between tendencies to opiate usage and the body’s ability to repress
feeling.

Now you’re going to take ibogaine, which you seem to feel is
holding out
some kind of “cure” for your drug usage. Or maybe I’m reading you
wrong. I
certainly hope it’s good for you, man. And I don’t know what
iboga will do
for you personally, but what I do know is that it helps if you
are open to
honest self evaluation – that you can allow yourself to
travel the many
corridors of the psyche, especially the ones where ordinarily it
looks a bit
scary. Plenty of people have taken the drug, seen some God or other,
been
drug free for a few weeks or months, all totally valuable
experiences, and
then found themselves back using pretty soon. And a lot of people are
attracted to ibogaine because they think it’s some kind of treatment
that
avoids formal rehab, avoids them having to be open and show their
feelings
in front of others. My experience is that it doesn’t really work
like that.

All in all, I’d like to be a friend to you. My intention is not
bad. I just
like to feel a bit of emotional reality in people so I put energy out
and
see how it goes. Helps me feel connected to people, coz otherwise
it’s just
the mind putting out what it thinks you want to hear and I don’t
find that
so satisfying really. Just another game.

Nick

—–Original Message—–
From: Alan Hehe [mailto:a.h.veil68@hotmail.com]
Sent: 04 April 2006 04:34
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Pot calling the Kettle Black?

Nick…you are soooo full of shit. That’s exactly what you said, and
you’re lucky I don’t have the e-mail anymore or I’d shove it down your
lying, cyber throat!!!!!
Come on..Preston, someone…does anyone have that email, the
one where
I posted the medical info I think might have his actual statement
on it….I
would appreciate if someone could send it back to me. Almost word
for word
what you said was (grammatical errors included) “Opiate is an
analgesic. It
stops feeling. Only someone with alot of repressed emotions receive
bliss
from analgesics, like opiates….” (you also said something about
ego-orientation)…then you said “if you can think of another
reason I’d
love to hear it.”  Now I’m positive that I want nothing more
to do with
you…so let sleeping dogs lie, or I swear I will rip you
apart…and that
way, you won’t have to “be manipulated anymore!” You dug your own
grave with
a drstically stupid statement, and you’re too full of yourself to just
say…”hey, I was wrong”. Now, for the second time, BYE!!!!!

From: “Nick Sandberg” <nick227@tiscali.co.uk>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Pot calling the Kettle Black?
Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2006 08:53:07 +0100

—–Original Message—–
From: Alan Hehe [mailto:a.h.veil68@hotmail.com]
Sent: 02 April 2006 17:32
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] Pot calling the Kettle Black?

Hey…uh, Biscuit Boy,
What’s the matter? Do you NOT like my debate with Nick, or do
you just
not like the fact that Ann paid me a compliment? Do you agree with
Nick’s
idea that only emotionally repressed individuals receive any sort of
high
from opiates? If you’ve got something to say, why not come out
and say it?
Have you never done opiates? Or any drugs? What gives you the
right to judge
Ann? Personally I don’t care if her comment was influened by a
whole gram of
Mexican brown! Better a nice compliment from someone high, than a
nasty one
from someone sober! Now, if I’ve misconstrued your intent, I
apologize, but
I would appreciate a logical explanation rather than a low-blow
insinuation.

Hi Alan,
only emotionally repressed individuals receive any sort of high from
opiates – I did not make such an extreme statement. I said there was a
relationship between the two, that the bliss experienced on
opiates relates
to the degree of ego-repressed feeling. You grab stuff,
exaggerate it to an
extreme position and then criticize your own interpretation.
Welcome to the
wonderful world of manipulation! I see a great career in media or
politics
opening up before you.
BTW, this IS the classic trait for someone who is using belief
patterns to
hold down feelings. If something challenges the belief then repressed
feelings start to rise “OMG, what if I’m really like so!” or whatever
and
the mind acts to push the feelings back down again, rearranging
what is said
into something it can criticize and expel. Frankly, I also see
myself doing
it at times! Letting go of beliefs can be a toughie.
Nick

From:  biscuitboy714@aol.com
Reply-To:  ibogaine@mindvox.com
To:  ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject:  Re: [Ibogaine] Opiate effects
Date:  Sun, 02 Apr 2006 11:05:09 -0400
Yea Ann, tell us how much heroin you shot last night. He He I
couldn’t help it. I love you Mamma           Randy

—–Original Message—–
From: Alan Hehe <a.h.veil68@hotmail.com>
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Sat, 01 Apr 2006 11:15:03 -0500
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Opiate effects

Hey Ann,

Thank you for the compliment…Somebody’s got to try to counter
his crazy ideas with some sense. Feel free to write me anytime..I
really enjoy talking to people on this list and hearing their
stories…Oh, don’t tell anyone, but I studied semantics and debate
in high school! Just kidding…about the hush hush, as anyone will
be able to read this. Oh, heck–LOL! I’m 37, and High school is but
a distant, mainly unplesant experience…except when I would catch
my English teacher making grammatical or syntactical mistakes,
before they moved me into an A.P. college-level class…And no, I’m
not conceited, either..but I do enjoy debate! Everyone has certain
qualities at which they excel, and others at which they are
deficient. I make up for my skill in English by being a retard in
math! Plus, I couldn’t be that smart or I wouldn’t be here, looking
for a way out of the hell-hole I dug for myself….and despite
having a really shitty childhood, I take complete responsibility for
my current position in
life……………………………….Wishing you the best in
all…….Alan.

——–
From: “Ann B. Mullikin” <think@francomm.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Opiate effects
Date: Sat, 1 Apr 2006 10:04:20 -0500

No, I am not Nick but…..

Bravo, Alan.  I surely do appreciate the way you use your brain –
TO THINK AND TO REASON.  Its good stuff.  Keep on.

ann
think@francomm.com

—– Original Message —–
From: Alan Hehe
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Friday, March 31, 2006 4:49 PM
Subject: [Ibogaine] Opiate effects

Hey Nick,

I wanted to say that, although I was basically right, I believe
(and according to the research I’ve done) about the reason opiates
cause pleasure, I wasn’t entirely correct about the natural opiates
(dopamine,etc) having an effect on mood. They do have an affect on
mood..but then again, so does euphoria..in fact, it could be said to
be a mood unto itself. Here’s a little medical info for: Opiates
(heroin, morphine, etc.)

The human body naturally produces its own opiate-like substances
and uses them as neurotransmitters. These substances include
endorphins, enkephalins, and dynorphin, often collectively known as
endogenous opioids. Endogenous opioids modulate our reactions to
painful stimuli. They also regulate vital functions such as hunger
and thirst and are involved in mood control, immune response, and
other processes.

The reason that opiates such as heroin and morphine affect us so
powerfully is that these exogenous substances bind to the same
receptors as our endogenous opioids. There are three kinds of
receptors widely distributed throughout the brain: mu, delta, and
kappa receptors.

These receptors, through second messengers, influence the likelihood
that ion channels will open, which in certain cases reduces the
excitability of neurons. This reduced excitability is the likely
source of the euphoric effect of opiates and appears to be mediated
by the mu and delta receptors.

This euphoric effect also appears to involve another mechanism in
which the GABA-inhibitory interneurons of the ventral tegmental area
come into play. By attaching to their mu receptors, exogenous
opioids reduce the amount of GABA released (see animation).
Normally, GABA reduces the amount of dopamine released in the
nucleus accumbens. By inhibiting this inhibitor, the opiates
ultimately increase the amount of dopamine produced and the amount
of pleasure felt.

Chronic consumption of opiates inhibits the production of cAMP, but
this inhibition is offset in the long run by other cAMP production
mechanisms. When no opiates are available, this increased cAMP
production capacity comes to the fore and results in neural
hyperactivity and the sensation of craving the drug.

——–
Make FREE PC-to-PC calls with MSN Messenger. Get it now!

/]=———————————————————————=
[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands:
http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]

\]=———————————————————————=
[/

——–
Find just what you’re after with the new, more precise MSN Search
– try it now!

/]=———————————————————————=
[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands:
http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]

\]=———————————————————————=
[/

/]=————————————————————–
——-=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands:
http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]

\]=————————————————————–
——-=[/

Be one of the first to try Windows Live Mail
/]=—————————————————————
——=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands:
http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html
[%]
\]=—————————————————————
——=[/

Play Trivia with MSN Messenger for a chance to win an XBOXT 360
prize pack!
/]=—————————————————————
——=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands:
http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html
[%]
\]=—————————————————————
——=[/

/]=—————————————————————
——=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands:
http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]

\]=—————————————————————
——=[/

/]=—————————————————————
——=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands:
http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html
[%]

\]=—————————————————————
——=[/

See if you’ve won, play MSN Search and Win
/]=—————————————————————
——=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html
[%]
\]=—————————————————————
——=[/

/]=—————————————————————
——=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands:
http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]

\]=—————————————————————
——=[/

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] Fw: Alcohol in Iran. NYT story. Some move to opium in preference!
Date: April 5, 2006 at 5:35:30 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>, <drugwar@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

—–
“If God dropped acid, would he see people?”  ~Steven Wright

Peace, love and lotsof respect.
Preston Peet
ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor Underground- the Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations, Astonishing Archaeology and Hidden History
Editor Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Columnist HighTimes mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —– From: Andrew Byrne
To: ajbyrne@ozemail.com.au
Sent: Tuesday, April 04, 2006 10:38 PM
Subject: Alcohol in Iran. NYT story. Some move to opium in preference!

Dear Colleagues,

There is an interesting item in the New York Times about alcohol in Iran and the conflict between Persian wine traditions and modern enforcement of Islamic prohibitions on drinking.  As with all blanket bans on popular pastimes, there are black markets, inequalities, arbitrary punishments, tainted alcohol, poisonings, deaths and, according to this item, a move towards other drug use such as opium.  Is this “harm maximization” at work? If certain patterns of alcohol consumption are beneficial (which has recently been questioned again), do citizens have a ‘right’ to access as they should for medicine, education, etc?  As a drug and alcohol physician, I always feel obliged to encourage reduced alcohol consumption, just as with tobacco or other harmful drugs.  Excepts below:

“As Liquor Business Booms, Bootleggers Risk the Lash”

Tehran Journal  The New York Times

Photo caption: ‘Pure alcohol, sold in many stores for under $3. The common recipe is one shot mixed with two shots of juice’ By NAZILA FATHI Published: April 4, 2006

TEHRAN, April 3 – For more than 27 years, Iran’s Islamic leaders have waged an uphill battle to cleanse the country of bootleg liquor.

Since the revolution in 1979, the government has banned alcoholic drinks and frequently flogged those who drank them. The small community of Christians and Jews was exempted, but could not sell alcohol to Muslims.

<snip> . Parliament recently increased the punishment for selling or drinking it. Offenders still get 74 lashes, but now also receive a hefty fine and from three months to a year in prison, twice the maximum sentence than under the old law.

<snip> . Every month, newspapers report that tens of thousands of bottles of illicit liquor are confiscated by the police .

Despite the crackdown, there is no sense of an alcohol shortage. .

The Iranian grape is so good for making spicy wine that Australian Shiraz, sometimes known as Syrah, is made from the same grape that grows in Iran’s southern city of Shiraz, which gave the wine its name. .

.. Islam forbids the consumption of alcohol . But drinking and wine are integral parts of Persian culture. . poems by Iran’s popular 14th-century poet, Shamsudin Mohammad Hafiz, who was from Shiraz, revolve around wine. “A rose without the glow of a lover bears no joy,” he wrote. “Without wine to drink the spring brings no joy.”

.  earliest evidence of wine making dates from 5400 B.C., in Haji Firuz Hills, near Western Azerbaijan Province, south of where the city of Orumieh is today.

.  more than 40 factories, some of which have imported machinery from China and Europe, are competing in the market. A thin plastic bottle of 600 milliliters, known here as pocket size, has few indications of medical use, but is available in stores for under $3. The common recipe is to mix one shot of alcohol with two shots of juice, preferably pineapple. . pure alcohol is still widely available.

. the decision to permit such widespread production of alcohol was made to limit the number of deaths and casualties caused by illegal drinks. Some 19 people were killed in 2004 after drinking bad bootleg liquor. “A lot of people had turned to drugs such as opium because they were cheaper and more accessible,” said the official.

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine]att; cpt kirk
Date: April 5, 2006 at 5:34:36 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Oh hell, thanks for making me spit coffe out my nose Chi.

—–
“If God dropped acid, would he see people?”  ~Steven Wright

Peace, love and lotsof respect.
Preston Peet
ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor Underground- the Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations, Astonishing Archaeology and Hidden History
Editor Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Columnist HighTimes mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —– From: “cm” <cm67@optusnet.com.au>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Tuesday, April 04, 2006 10:54 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine]att; cpt kirk

hi kirsty, seeing as there has been so much ‘correcting’ of other peoples opinions
on the list lately, theres one thing ive got to straighten up with you.
its about the whole PMS (putting up with mens shit) thing. in OZ the male
equivalent to PMS is and always will be MSB (massive sperm build-up)
makes for some very moody men. hehehehehe
lotsa love chi xxxoo

—– Original Message —– From: “captkirk” <captkirk@clear.net.nz>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Tuesday, April 04, 2006 3:00 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Why Be Mean?

lol billy, I thought that was rather tame compared with
“other emails which shall remain un-named”………….
Feels like PMS to me (Putting Up with Men’s Shit….).
Ok, I’ll go read a book now…..
;o)
“Scientology for Dummies”

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] RE:anger
Date: April 5, 2006 at 5:21:34 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I’m still in the US who’s who for writing conspiracy theories.<

Got anything online Nick?

—–
“If God dropped acid, would he see people?”  ~Steven Wright

Peace, love and lotsof respect.
Preston Peet
ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor Underground- the Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations, Astonishing Archaeology and Hidden History
Editor Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Columnist HighTimes mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —– From: Nick Sandberg
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Tuesday, April 04, 2006 5:11 PM
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] RE:anger

Hi Alan,

Fair enough! You seem like a forthright guy to me. I have done a lot of things that you talk about also, and believed the same stuff too. We are probably quite similar. I have also been “too clever” for the therapists in the past. I guess I thought it was like some game of cat and mouse and I didn’t connect to the reality of someone who was actually trying to help me. I missed that bit because I figured I knew it all better. Life had to get more desperate for me so that I could start to see that, for all my cleverness, very few of my emotional needs were actually getting met, and that in reality I needed help. Yeah, and I did the “teachings” scene too, the week-long satsangs on Goa beaches and “enlightenment intensives” in Poona. Thankfully all I got from that was that my only real responsibility was to actually take on what I was carrying around, to stop avoiding myself in search of some teaching that underneath was allowing me to just bullshit my way out of feeling stuff. I couldn’t really give a toss about philosophy or spirituality these days (well, getting there slowly!) and am still kind of grateful I was never deluded enough to try and become a Buddhist, which is what happens to a lot of angry young guys who don’t want to feel anymore. Poor souls. Yeah, Freud always seemed grossly uncool to me and Jung the opposite, nowadays it’s more the other way round. The world of concepts, with its “ego” and all these things that had to be “overcome,” man what a deranged trip that is. Just the same old parental conditioning coming back round again, you gotta drop this you gotta overcome that. Poor old Carl, trying to put everything into a map, with all those long, long books. I would love to have put him into a Humaniversity AUM meditation and let him experience the bliss beyond fear. So simple. But that’s just me. I guess his protege Wilhelm Reich still seems pretty cool to me. The Function of the Orgasm is such a great name for a book. I would read it except I don’t read books! I was punk in London in the 80s too, getting wasted in the Fox and Gossips, going to see the Ramones at the Academy, living in squats in Camden arguing with goths. And politics, and conspiracy theories. I’m still in the US who’s who for writing conspiracy theories. Yeah, maybe we’re the same person!

Nick

—–Original Message—–
From: Alan Hehe [mailto:a.h.veil68@hotmail.com]
Sent: 04 April 2006 21:17
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] RE:anger

Nick-
Perhaps I have been a little hard on you…it is true that I came from a traumatic background…I grew up fighting, both with my fists and my mind. But let me say this: I did not “scour” the internet looking for the info I posted for you. Believe it or not, it was the second site I came to. I agree with some of your theories, but I don’t agree with the way in which you choose to deal with them.
As far as being a psychonaut, I have travelled–on mushroom, L>S>D and Dextromethorphan to places you wouldn’t believe. I also do alot of meditating…I’ve always had a deep interest in Eastern philosophies, especially Zen and Tibetan Buddhism. And what I find is that Jesus, Lao-tse, Buddha, Mohammad, and many other spiritual teachers preach basically the same thing: love all (including animals..which we are at our most basic level), do not get attached to material things, that death is just a passge to another state (although here the different religions begin to show their differences more..at least APPARENTLY) and to avoid the ego-trap. I try to live by these teachings, but often fail.
As far as the whole “treatment” aspect of addiction goes, I believe some people need it and some people don’t. For me, it doesn’t work…in fact, when I was a teen I attempted suicide and for a time I was seeing a psychologist…but he got no-where with me, and this is what he said, in so many words: that I was too intelligent, too knowledgeable about psychology for him to treat me. I knew all the tricks…I knew what he wanted to hear and what would cause him to make notes in his little book. I already knew basically how a “normal person” is supposed to interpret those Rorsch Ink Blots. I also think alot of psychology is just alot of hogwash!  I do like some of Jung’s work, especially his research on archetypes and the collective unconsciousness and such…but his predecessor, his teacher? He (Freud) was one of the most psychologically disturbed people to ever foul our minds!
Yes, I do react, perhaps a little too seriously…and it’s not really that my beliefs are being threatened…I don’t actually have that many beliefs, but the few I have I do feel strongly about. So…I’m sorry for being so tough on you. Please don’t make me regret saying that…no-one is always right, Nick, or rarely ever entirely right–including me. I know alot of people who, when they read the part about me having a high I.Q., or being intelligent, will think: He can’t be that smart if he tried to kill himself! And they will be both right…and wrong. People in the West usually think something has to be either yes or no, right or wrong, on or off. And mostly that is the case–but not always. Eastern philosophy allows for a middle point, and understands how negatives and positives define each other….Being intelligent, you learn alot of things about the world that are not nice at all…you can’t have the “bliss” of ignorance, like some…You know that eating animals, unless that’s all there is, and then you thank the animal for giving ITS life so YOU could live, is usually wrong…I still have relapses…I haven’t always been a vegetarian. I also believe strongly in moderation. When you’re intelligent enough, you see through the lies of the Govt! You can’t lose yourself in silly T.V shows…you see ALL…and despite all the natural beauty, and the fact that the universe if filled with an energy that radiates love, you also see the cruelty and stupidity of your fellow man…yet still try to love him.
Well, that’s it. I don’t want to be accussed of writing too long of an e-mail again. But if “mind-y” means intelligent, than I plead guilty. But I assure you I am not a nerd. I’m outgowing, used to be pretty good with the ladies (till I made a commitment to one), can fight like a tiger, and love old Punk rock! So don’t try to pigenhole me!

From:  “Nick Sandberg” <nick227@tiscali.co.uk>
Reply-To:  ibogaine@mindvox.com
To:  <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Subject:  RE: [Ibogaine] Pot calling the Kettle Black?
Date:  Tue, 4 Apr 2006 12:45:47 +0100

> —–Original Message—–
> From: Preston Peet [mailto:ptpeet@nyc.rr.com]
> Sent: 04 April 2006 12:20
> To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
> Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Pot calling the Kettle Black?
>
>
> >But, working around addicts, what I see time and again is that they are
> >either from high trauma backgrounds or are just acutely
> sensitive, ie have
> >trouble repressing feelings. To me there’s a pretty clear relationship
> >between tendencies to opiate usage and the body’s ability to repress
> >feeling.<
>
> And if this is the case Nick, why out of curiosity is this
> necessarily a bad
> thing? Or is it? Or are there gray areas here in your view?
>

Hi Preston,

For sure there are grey areas. It’s just a tendency I notice in people using
opiates. A lot either seem to be hypersensitive or coming from a fairly
traumatic background. Both suggest to me they have a problem repressing
feelings. It’s not a bad thing at all. It’s just an observation. We’re all
just people at the end of the day.

Nick

> —–
> “If God dropped acid, would he see people?”  ~Steven Wright
>
> Peace, love and lotsof respect.
> Preston Peet
> ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
> Editor Underground- the Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations,
> Astonishing Archaeology and Hidden History
> Editor Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs
> Editor http://www.drugwar.com
> Columnist HighTimes mag/.com
> Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
> Columnist New York Waste
> Etc.
>
> —– Original Message —–
> From: Nick Sandberg
> To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
> Sent: Tuesday, April 04, 2006 5:01 AM
> Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Pot calling the Kettle Black?
>
>
> Alan,
>
> To be honest, I find you wrapped up so tight I am a bit scared to even
> communicate with you. I don’t know where things will go for you. I mean,
> just the suggestion that you are using opiates to hold down feelings and
> you’re at like defcon2 or something. Why not just check out why
> what I write
> brings up so much feeling in you? You think anger is created by events
> external to yourself? It can be triggered, for sure. But you
> gotta own your
> part of it. For me, you have every trait of someone who is very
> strongly in
> denial. You create some whole drama out of a few comments I make about
> opiates, feelings and bliss and seem convinced that you only use them to
> give you bliss or something. I’m just pushing out a little energy in the
> other direction. That’s all. Why do you seem to regard this as
> some form of
> abuse? I find you wrapped up tight, guy, really.
>
> I make a comment – “If you experience bliss from an analgesic it
> is because
> your body is struggling to hold down a lot of feelings your ego
> has decided
> it doesn’t want to have” and you create from it “only emotionally
> repressed
> individuals receive any sort of high from opiates.” To me that’s
> exaggeration. Ok, maybe not so much but it’s there. You also try
> and justify
> your own position by apparently scouring the net for some neurochemical
> stuff that says it isn’t so. I mean, to me that’s just a total defense
> reaction. I am not trying to create some big picture of how
> things are, some
> all-encompassing truth about addiction, my experience is that no
> such thing
> exists. I’m just pushing out a bit of energy. Yeah, maybe
> neurochemists have
> discovered how opiates work. Maybe. If so, it’s great. And I’m
> happy to take
> this new perspective in. And I’m happy to apologize if it’s upset you so
> much. But, working around addicts, what I see time and again is that > they
> are either from high trauma backgrounds or are just acutely sensitive, > ie
> have trouble repressing feelings. To me there’s a pretty clear
> relationship
> between tendencies to opiate usage and the body’s ability to repress
> feeling.
>
> Now you’re going to take ibogaine, which you seem to feel is holding out
> some kind of “cure” for your drug usage. Or maybe I’m reading you
> wrong. I
> certainly hope it’s good for you, man. And I don’t know what
> iboga will do
> for you personally, but what I do know is that it helps if you
> are open to
> honest self evaluation – that you can allow yourself to travel the many
> corridors of the psyche, especially the ones where ordinarily it
> looks a bit
> scary. Plenty of people have taken the drug, seen some God or other, > been
> drug free for a few weeks or months, all totally valuable
> experiences, and
> then found themselves back using pretty soon. And a lot of people are
> attracted to ibogaine because they think it’s some kind of treatment > that
> avoids formal rehab, avoids them having to be open and show their
> feelings
> in front of others. My experience is that it doesn’t really work
> like that.
>
> All in all, I’d like to be a friend to you. My intention is not
> bad. I just
> like to feel a bit of emotional reality in people so I put energy out > and
> see how it goes. Helps me feel connected to people, coz otherwise
> it’s just
> the mind putting out what it thinks you want to hear and I don’t
> find that
> so satisfying really. Just another game.
>
> Nick
>
>
>
> —–Original Message—–
> From: Alan Hehe [mailto:a.h.veil68@hotmail.com]
> Sent: 04 April 2006 04:34
> To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
> Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Pot calling the Kettle Black?
>
>
>   Nick…you are soooo full of shit. That’s exactly what you said, and
> you’re lucky I don’t have the e-mail anymore or I’d shove it down your
> lying, cyber throat!!!!!
>      Come on..Preston, someone…does anyone have that email, the
> one where
> I posted the medical info I think might have his actual statement
> on it….I
> would appreciate if someone could send it back to me. Almost word
> for word
> what you said was (grammatical errors included) “Opiate is an
> analgesic. It
> stops feeling. Only someone with alot of repressed emotions receive > bliss
> from analgesics, like opiates….” (you also said something about
> ego-orientation)…then you said “if you can think of another reason I’d
> love to hear it.”  Now I’m positive that I want nothing more to do with
> you…so let sleeping dogs lie, or I swear I will rip you
> apart…and that
> way, you won’t have to “be manipulated anymore!” You dug your own
> grave with
> a drstically stupid statement, and you’re too full of yourself to just
> say…”hey, I was wrong”. Now, for the second time, BYE!!!!!
>
>
>
>
> From: “Nick Sandberg” <nick227@tiscali.co.uk>
> Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
> To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
> Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Pot calling the Kettle Black?
> Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2006 08:53:07 +0100
>
>
>
> —–Original Message—–
> From: Alan Hehe [mailto:a.h.veil68@hotmail.com]
> Sent: 02 April 2006 17:32
> To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
> Subject: [Ibogaine] Pot calling the Kettle Black?
>
>
>     Hey…uh, Biscuit Boy,
>     What’s the matter? Do you NOT like my debate with Nick, or do
> you just
> not like the fact that Ann paid me a compliment? Do you agree with > Nick’s
> idea that only emotionally repressed individuals receive any sort of > high
> from opiates? If you’ve got something to say, why not come out
> and say it?
> Have you never done opiates? Or any drugs? What gives you the
> right to judge
> Ann? Personally I don’t care if her comment was influened by a
> whole gram of
> Mexican brown! Better a nice compliment from someone high, than a
> nasty one
> from someone sober! Now, if I’ve misconstrued your intent, I
> apologize, but
> I would appreciate a logical explanation rather than a low-blow
> insinuation.
>
> Hi Alan,
>  only emotionally repressed individuals receive any sort of high from
> opiates – I did not make such an extreme statement. I said there was a
> relationship between the two, that the bliss experienced on
> opiates relates
> to the degree of ego-repressed feeling. You grab stuff,
> exaggerate it to an
> extreme position and then criticize your own interpretation.
> Welcome to the
> wonderful world of manipulation! I see a great career in media or
> politics
> opening up before you.
> BTW, this IS the classic trait for someone who is using belief
> patterns to
> hold down feelings. If something challenges the belief then repressed
> feelings start to rise “OMG, what if I’m really like so!” or whatever > and
> the mind acts to push the feelings back down again, rearranging
> what is said
> into something it can criticize and expel. Frankly, I also see
> myself doing
> it at times! Letting go of beliefs can be a toughie.
> Nick
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> From:  biscuitboy714@aol.com
> Reply-To:  ibogaine@mindvox.com
> To:  ibogaine@mindvox.com
> Subject:  Re: [Ibogaine] Opiate effects
> Date:  Sun, 02 Apr 2006 11:05:09 -0400
> >Yea Ann, tell us how much heroin you shot last night. He He I
> >couldn’t help it. I love you Mamma           Randy
> >
> >—–Original Message—–
> >From: Alan Hehe <a.h.veil68@hotmail.com>
> >To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
> >Sent: Sat, 01 Apr 2006 11:15:03 -0500
> >Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Opiate effects
> >
> >     Hey Ann,
> >
> >     Thank you for the compliment…Somebody’s got to try to counter
> >his crazy ideas with some sense. Feel free to write me anytime..I
> >really enjoy talking to people on this list and hearing their
> >stories…Oh, don’t tell anyone, but I studied semantics and debate
> >in high school! Just kidding…about the hush hush, as anyone will
> >be able to read this. Oh, heck–LOL! I’m 37, and High school is but
> >a distant, mainly unplesant experience…except when I would catch
> >my English teacher making grammatical or syntactical mistakes,
> >before they moved me into an A.P. college-level class…And no, I’m
> >not conceited, either..but I do enjoy debate! Everyone has certain
> >qualities at which they excel, and others at which they are
> >deficient. I make up for my skill in English by being a retard in
> >math! Plus, I couldn’t be that smart or I wouldn’t be here, looking
> >for a way out of the hell-hole I dug for myself….and despite
> >having a really shitty childhood, I take complete responsibility for
> >my current position in
> >life……………………………….Wishing you the best in
> >all…….Alan.
> >
> >
> >
> >  ——–
> >From: “Ann B. Mullikin” <think@francomm.com>
> >Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
> >To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
> >Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Opiate effects
> >Date: Sat, 1 Apr 2006 10:04:20 -0500
> >
> >  No, I am not Nick but…..
> >
> >  Bravo, Alan.  I surely do appreciate the way you use your brain –
> >TO THINK AND TO REASON.  Its good stuff.  Keep on.
> >
> >ann
> >think@francomm.com
> >
> >  —– Original Message —–
> >From: Alan Hehe
> >To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
> >Sent: Friday, March 31, 2006 4:49 PM
> >Subject: [Ibogaine] Opiate effects
> >
> >
> >    Hey Nick,
> >
> >     I wanted to say that, although I was basically right, I believe
> >(and according to the research I’ve done) about the reason opiates
> >cause pleasure, I wasn’t entirely correct about the natural opiates
> >(dopamine,etc) having an effect on mood. They do have an affect on
> >mood..but then again, so does euphoria..in fact, it could be said to
> >be a mood unto itself. Here’s a little medical info for: Opiates
> >(heroin, morphine, etc.)
> >
> >  The human body naturally produces its own opiate-like substances
> >and uses them as neurotransmitters. These substances include
> >endorphins, enkephalins, and dynorphin, often collectively known as
> >endogenous opioids. Endogenous opioids modulate our reactions to
> >painful stimuli. They also regulate vital functions such as hunger
> >and thirst and are involved in mood control, immune response, and
> >other processes.
> >
> >The reason that opiates such as heroin and morphine affect us so
> >powerfully is that these exogenous substances bind to the same
> >receptors as our endogenous opioids. There are three kinds of
> >receptors widely distributed throughout the brain: mu, delta, and
> >kappa receptors.
> >
> >These receptors, through second messengers, influence the likelihood
> >that ion channels will open, which in certain cases reduces the
> >excitability of neurons. This reduced excitability is the likely
> >source of the euphoric effect of opiates and appears to be mediated
> >by the mu and delta receptors.
> >
> >This euphoric effect also appears to involve another mechanism in
> >which the GABA-inhibitory interneurons of the ventral tegmental area
> >come into play. By attaching to their mu receptors, exogenous
> >opioids reduce the amount of GABA released (see animation).
> >Normally, GABA reduces the amount of dopamine released in the
> >nucleus accumbens. By inhibiting this inhibitor, the opiates
> >ultimately increase the amount of dopamine produced and the amount
> >of pleasure felt.
> >
> >Chronic consumption of opiates inhibits the production of cAMP, but
> >this inhibition is offset in the long run by other cAMP production
> >mechanisms. When no opiates are available, this increased cAMP
> >production capacity comes to the fore and results in neural
> >hyperactivity and the sensation of craving the drug.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >——–
> >  Make FREE PC-to-PC calls with MSN Messenger. Get it now!
> >/]=———————————————————————=
> >[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands:
> >http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
> >\]=———————————————————————=
> >[/
> >
> >
> >——–
> >  Find just what you’re after with the new, more precise MSN Search
> >- try it now!
> >/]=———————————————————————=
> >[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands:
> >http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
> >\]=———————————————————————=
> >[/
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >/]=————————————————————–
> ——-=[\
> >[%] Ibogaine List Commands:
> >http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
> >
> >\]=————————————————————–
> ——-=[/
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
> Be one of the first to try Windows Live Mail
> /]=—————————————————————
> ——=[\
> [%] Ibogaine List Commands: > http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html
> [%]
> \]=—————————————————————
> ——=[/
>
>
>
>
>
> Play Trivia with MSN Messenger for a chance to win an XBOXT 360
> prize pack!
> /]=—————————————————————
> ——=[\
> [%] Ibogaine List Commands: > http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html
> [%]
> \]=—————————————————————
> ——=[/
>
>
>
>
> /]=—————————————————————
> ——=[\
>  [%] Ibogaine List Commands:
> http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
>
> \]=—————————————————————
> ——=[/
>
>

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

See if you’ve won, play MSN Search and Win /]=———————————————————————=[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%] \]=———————————————————————=[/

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] Fw: [DrugWar] mmj grassroots organizers needed
Date: April 5, 2006 at 5:05:35 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

—–
“If God dropped acid, would he see people?”  ~Steven Wright

Peace, love and lotsof respect.
Preston Peet
ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor Underground- the Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations, Astonishing Archaeology and Hidden History
Editor Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Columnist HighTimes mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.
—– Original Message —–
From: Salem Pearce
To: drugwar@mindvox.com
Sent: Tuesday, April 04, 2006 3:41 PM
Subject: [DrugWar] mmj grassroots organizers needed

My organization is looking for two grassroots organizers in the Phoenix, AZ and Ft. Lauderdale and Miami, FL areas.  See the following link for more information and how to apply.  Please feel free to forward this to any interested parties.

http://mpp.org/jobs/contract/pt-organizers-2k.html

Thanks,
Salem

Salem Pearce, Organizing/Outreach Coordinator
Marijuana Policy Project
P.O. Box 77492, Capitol Hill
Washington, D.C. 20013
Tel: 202.462.5747 ext. 108
Fax: 202.544.4088
spearce@mpp.org
www.mpp.org

Please visit http://www.mpp.org/subscribe to sign up for MPP’s free e-mail alerts.

From: “Alan Hehe” <a.h.veil68@hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] RE:anger
Date: April 5, 2006 at 3:58:25 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Nick, I don’t understand how meditating, or exploring different belief systems, keeps one from confronting himself, or from avoiding feelings. For me, the only way that you can get in touch with how you truly feel and think, is to stop talking to yourself (turn off the internal monologue), let your mind be quiet, and just watch your thoughts, from a detached point of view..and eventually all the loud voices–which usually aren’t really you, but all the crap we absorb from the endless streams of information, disinformation, advertising, other peoples words, etc. When the mind finally quiets down, there’s a very soft voice, the voice of your higher self, and all you have to do is pose a question in your mind, and you will know immediately whether it’s a good thing for you or not. I do not repress my feelings, either–you seem to be making contradictory statements…I release anger, in words, and then you say, “oh, he must have alot of repressed anger and emotions.”?  No, I don’t because by letting myself BE angry, I’ve let it out, not repressed it. When I’m sad, I cry….We’re all equipped with ways of dealing with emotions…but sometimes, you need to reign in your emotions a little and use your MIND. Also, by your statements about “I used to believe that, too, but now..” that you think you are above or beyond me. Have you ever read any of Robert Anton Wilson’s non-fictional books, like Prometheus Rising?  And I don’t think Freud or Jung were “cool”…I think trying to be “cool” is being false to yourself…but at the same time, it’s a cruel world, and if you go around letting all your emotions wide out all the time, you are going to eventually run into trouble. I don’t like your inference of superiority, but then again I don’t truly care, either. We must all walk our own paths, and pride certainly does come before a fall. Nevertheless, I am interested in what you REALLY think, besides the idea that everyone pushes alot of feelings back, especially junkies. So now you think Freud is cool….so you must believe in his OEdipal theories, then, huh? Come on Nick, tell me what you really believe! And you really think therapists are just trying to help us, even though a person is viewed as “abnormal” if he’s too creative in his interpretation of those Rorsch Ink Blots? Finally, sometimes we just have to–not neccesarily “repress” our emotions, but certainly keep them under control…I use a punching bag to help relieve my anger–because if I tore into everyone that pissed me off, then I’d end up in some “anger management class”..and while you might think that’s good–or not–I don’t have the time for it. I am very emotionally active….so what makes you superior to me, and can you write an e-mail expressing what you believe, in many aspects, because I can’t get a grip on what you’re really driving at, Nick….Emotions are just one part of our makeup, Nick..and sometimes, even confronting repressed feelings, confronting the person who helped caused them doesn’t cure you…My mother did alot of things that truly hurt me as a child…I’ve confronted my anger and sorrow over it, and I’ve confronted her about some of it. But I would never tell her how truly deeply she hurt me, because I know she’s only human and all humans make mistakes, and I know she did her best. I simply love her too much to do that..and being able to do that, to not express your every tear or fear..well, that’s called maturity, Nick. But I know myself. Know thyself–Plato said that..very wise words. I’ll be looking for your email–if you can do it–explaining your “comprehensive” world view…you said I should listen instead of just reacting, so I’m ready when you are. Over’n’out.

From: “Nick Sandberg” <nick227@tiscali.co.uk>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] RE:anger
Date: Tue, 4 Apr 2006 22:11:28 +0100

Hi Alan,

Fair enough! You seem like a forthright guy to me. I have done a lot of things that you talk about also, and believed the same stuff too. We are probably quite similar. I have also been “too clever” for the therapists in the past. I guess I thought it was like some game of cat and mouse and I didn’t connect to the reality of someone who was actually trying to help me. I missed that bit because I figured I knew it all better. Life had to get more desperate for me so that I could start to see that, for all my cleverness, very few of my emotional needs were actually getting met, and that in reality I needed help. Yeah, and I did the “teachings” scene too, the week-long satsangs on Goa beaches and “enlightenment intensives” in Poona. Thankfully all I got from that was that my only real responsibility was to actually take on what I was carrying around, to stop avoiding myself in search of some teaching that underneath was allowing me to just bullshit my way out of feeling stuff. I couldn’t really give a toss about philosophy or spirituality these days (well, getting there slowly!) and am still kind of grateful I was never deluded enough to try and become a Buddhist, which is what happens to a lot of angry young guys who don’t want to feel anymore. Poor souls. Yeah, Freud always seemed grossly uncool to me and Jung the opposite, nowadays it’s more the other way round. The world of concepts, with its “ego” and all these things that had to be “overcome,” man what a deranged trip that is. Just the same old parental conditioning coming back round again, you gotta drop this you gotta overcome that. Poor old Carl, trying to put everything into a map, with all those long, long books. I would love to have put him into a Humaniversity AUM meditation and let him experience the bliss beyond fear. So simple. But that’s just me. I guess his protege Wilhelm Reich still seems pretty cool to me. The Function of the Orgasm is such a great name for a book. I would read it except I don’t read books! I was punk in London in the 80s too, getting wasted in the Fox and Gossips, going to see the Ramones at the Academy, living in squats in Camden arguing with goths. And politics, and conspiracy theories. I’m still in the US who’s who for writing conspiracy theories. Yeah, maybe we’re the same person!

Nick

—–Original Message—–
From: Alan Hehe [mailto:a.h.veil68@hotmail.com]
Sent: 04 April 2006 21:17
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] RE:anger

Nick-
Perhaps I have been a little hard on you…it is true that I came from a traumatic background…I grew up fighting, both with my fists and my mind. But let me say this: I did not “scour” the internet looking for the info I posted for you. Believe it or not, it was the second site I came to. I agree with some of your theories, but I don’t agree with the way in which you choose to deal with them.
As far as being a psychonaut, I have travelled–on mushroom, L>S>D and Dextromethorphan to places you wouldn’t believe. I also do alot of meditating…I’ve always had a deep interest in Eastern philosophies, especially Zen and Tibetan Buddhism. And what I find is that Jesus, Lao-tse, Buddha, Mohammad, and many other spiritual teachers preach basically the same thing: love all (including animals..which we are at our most basic level), do not get attached to material things, that death is just a passge to another state (although here the different religions begin to show their differences more..at least APPARENTLY) and to avoid the ego-trap. I try to live by these teachings, but often fail.
As far as the whole “treatment” aspect of addiction goes, I believe some people need it and some people don’t. For me, it doesn’t work…in fact, when I was a teen I attempted suicide and for a time I was seeing a psychologist…but he got no-where with me, and this is what he said, in so many words: that I was too intelligent, too knowledgeable about psychology for him to treat me. I knew all the tricks…I knew what he wanted to hear and what would cause him to make notes in his little book. I already knew basically how a “normal person” is supposed to interpret those Rorsch Ink Blots. I also think alot of psychology is just alot of hogwash!  I do like some of Jung’s work, especially his research on archetypes and the collective unconsciousness and such…but his predecessor, his teacher? He (Freud) was one of the most psychologically disturbed people to ever foul our minds!
Yes, I do react, perhaps a little too seriously…and it’s not really that my beliefs are being threatened…I don’t actually have that many beliefs, but the few I have I do feel strongly about. So…I’m sorry for being so tough on you. Please don’t make me regret saying that…no-one is always right, Nick, or rarely ever entirely right–including me. I know alot of people who, when they read the part about me having a high I.Q., or being intelligent, will think: He can’t be that smart if he tried to kill himself! And they will be both right…and wrong. People in the West usually think something has to be either yes or no, right or wrong, on or off. And mostly that is the case–but not always. Eastern philosophy allows for a middle point, and understands how negatives and positives define each other….Being intelligent, you learn alot of things about the world that are not nice at all…you can’t have the “bliss” of ignorance, like some…You know that eating animals, unless that’s all there is, and then you thank the animal for giving ITS life so YOU could live, is usually wrong…I still have relapses…I haven’t always been a vegetarian. I also believe strongly in moderation. When you’re intelligent enough, you see through the lies of the Govt! You can’t lose yourself in silly T.V shows…you see ALL…and despite all the natural beauty, and the fact that the universe if filled with an energy that radiates love, you also see the cruelty and stupidity of your fellow man…yet still try to love him.
Well, that’s it. I don’t want to be accussed of writing too long of an e-mail again. But if “mind-y” means intelligent, than I plead guilty. But I assure you I am not a nerd. I’m outgowing, used to be pretty good with the ladies (till I made a commitment to one), can fight like a tiger, and love old Punk rock! So don’t try to pigenhole me!

From:  “Nick Sandberg” <nick227@tiscali.co.uk>
Reply-To:  ibogaine@mindvox.com
To:  <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Subject:  RE: [Ibogaine] Pot calling the Kettle Black?
Date:  Tue, 4 Apr 2006 12:45:47 +0100
>
>
> > —–Original Message—–
> > From: Preston Peet [mailto:ptpeet@nyc.rr.com]
> > Sent: 04 April 2006 12:20
> > To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
> > Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Pot calling the Kettle Black?
> >
> >
> > >But, working around addicts, what I see time and again is that they are
> > >either from high trauma backgrounds or are just acutely
> > sensitive, ie have
> > >trouble repressing feelings. To me there’s a pretty clear relationship
> > >between tendencies to opiate usage and the body’s ability to repress
> > >feeling.<
> >
> > And if this is the case Nick, why out of curiosity is this
> > necessarily a bad
> > thing? Or is it? Or are there gray areas here in your view?
> >
>
>Hi Preston,
>
>For sure there are grey areas. It’s just a tendency I notice in people using
>opiates. A lot either seem to be hypersensitive or coming from a fairly
>traumatic background. Both suggest to me they have a problem repressing
>feelings. It’s not a bad thing at all. It’s just an observation. We’re all
>just people at the end of the day.
>
>Nick
>
> > —–
> > “If God dropped acid, would he see people?”  ~Steven Wright
> >
> > Peace, love and lotsof respect.
> > Preston Peet
> > ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
> > Editor Underground- the Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations,
> > Astonishing Archaeology and Hidden History
> > Editor Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs
> > Editor http://www.drugwar.com
> > Columnist HighTimes mag/.com
> > Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
> > Columnist New York Waste
> > Etc.
> >
> > —– Original Message —–
> > From: Nick Sandberg
> > To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
> > Sent: Tuesday, April 04, 2006 5:01 AM
> > Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Pot calling the Kettle Black?
> >
> >
> > Alan,
> >
> > To be honest, I find you wrapped up so tight I am a bit scared to even
> > communicate with you. I don’t know where things will go for you. I mean,
> > just the suggestion that you are using opiates to hold down feelings and
> > you’re at like defcon2 or something. Why not just check out why
> > what I write
> > brings up so much feeling in you? You think anger is created by events
> > external to yourself? It can be triggered, for sure. But you
> > gotta own your
> > part of it. For me, you have every trait of someone who is very
> > strongly in
> > denial. You create some whole drama out of a few comments I make about
> > opiates, feelings and bliss and seem convinced that you only use them to
> > give you bliss or something. I’m just pushing out a little energy in the
> > other direction. That’s all. Why do you seem to regard this as
> > some form of
> > abuse? I find you wrapped up tight, guy, really.
> >
> > I make a comment – “If you experience bliss from an analgesic it
> > is because
> > your body is struggling to hold down a lot of feelings your ego
> > has decided
> > it doesn’t want to have” and you create from it “only emotionally
> > repressed
> > individuals receive any sort of high from opiates.” To me that’s
> > exaggeration. Ok, maybe not so much but it’s there. You also try
> > and justify
> > your own position by apparently scouring the net for some neurochemical
> > stuff that says it isn’t so. I mean, to me that’s just a total defense
> > reaction. I am not trying to create some big picture of how
> > things are, some
> > all-encompassing truth about addiction, my experience is that no
> > such thing
> > exists. I’m just pushing out a bit of energy. Yeah, maybe
> > neurochemists have
> > discovered how opiates work. Maybe. If so, it’s great. And I’m
> > happy to take
> > this new perspective in. And I’m happy to apologize if it’s upset you so
> > much. But, working around addicts, what I see time and again is that they
> > are either from high trauma backgrounds or are just acutely sensitive, ie
> > have trouble repressing feelings. To me there’s a pretty clear
> > relationship
> > between tendencies to opiate usage and the body’s ability to repress
> > feeling.
> >
> > Now you’re going to take ibogaine, which you seem to feel is holding out
> > some kind of “cure” for your drug usage. Or maybe I’m reading you
> > wrong. I
> > certainly hope it’s good for you, man. And I don’t know what
> > iboga will do
> > for you personally, but what I do know is that it helps if you
> > are open to
> > honest self evaluation – that you can allow yourself to travel the many
> > corridors of the psyche, especially the ones where ordinarily it
> > looks a bit
> > scary. Plenty of people have taken the drug, seen some God or other, been
> > drug free for a few weeks or months, all totally valuable
> > experiences, and
> > then found themselves back using pretty soon. And a lot of people are
> > attracted to ibogaine because they think it’s some kind of treatment that
> > avoids formal rehab, avoids them having to be open and show their
> > feelings
> > in front of others. My experience is that it doesn’t really work
> > like that.
> >
> > All in all, I’d like to be a friend to you. My intention is not
> > bad. I just
> > like to feel a bit of emotional reality in people so I put energy out and
> > see how it goes. Helps me feel connected to people, coz otherwise
> > it’s just
> > the mind putting out what it thinks you want to hear and I don’t
> > find that
> > so satisfying really. Just another game.
> >
> > Nick
> >
> >
> >
> > —–Original Message—–
> > From: Alan Hehe [mailto:a.h.veil68@hotmail.com]
> > Sent: 04 April 2006 04:34
> > To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
> > Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Pot calling the Kettle Black?
> >
> >
> >   Nick…you are soooo full of shit. That’s exactly what you said, and
> > you’re lucky I don’t have the e-mail anymore or I’d shove it down your
> > lying, cyber throat!!!!!
> >      Come on..Preston, someone…does anyone have that email, the
> > one where
> > I posted the medical info I think might have his actual statement
> > on it….I
> > would appreciate if someone could send it back to me. Almost word
> > for word
> > what you said was (grammatical errors included) “Opiate is an
> > analgesic. It
> > stops feeling. Only someone with alot of repressed emotions receive bliss
> > from analgesics, like opiates….” (you also said something about
> > ego-orientation)…then you said “if you can think of another reason I’d
> > love to hear it.”  Now I’m positive that I want nothing more to do with
> > you…so let sleeping dogs lie, or I swear I will rip you
> > apart…and that
> > way, you won’t have to “be manipulated anymore!” You dug your own
> > grave with
> > a drstically stupid statement, and you’re too full of yourself to just
> > say…”hey, I was wrong”. Now, for the second time, BYE!!!!!
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > From: “Nick Sandberg” <nick227@tiscali.co.uk>
> > Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
> > To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
> > Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Pot calling the Kettle Black?
> > Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2006 08:53:07 +0100
> >
> >
> >
> > —–Original Message—–
> > From: Alan Hehe [mailto:a.h.veil68@hotmail.com]
> > Sent: 02 April 2006 17:32
> > To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
> > Subject: [Ibogaine] Pot calling the Kettle Black?
> >
> >
> >     Hey…uh, Biscuit Boy,
> >     What’s the matter? Do you NOT like my debate with Nick, or do
> > you just
> > not like the fact that Ann paid me a compliment? Do you agree with Nick’s
> > idea that only emotionally repressed individuals receive any sort of high
> > from opiates? If you’ve got something to say, why not come out
> > and say it?
> > Have you never done opiates? Or any drugs? What gives you the
> > right to judge
> > Ann? Personally I don’t care if her comment was influened by a
> > whole gram of
> > Mexican brown! Better a nice compliment from someone high, than a
> > nasty one
> > from someone sober! Now, if I’ve misconstrued your intent, I
> > apologize, but
> > I would appreciate a logical explanation rather than a low-blow
> > insinuation.
> >
> > Hi Alan,
> >  only emotionally repressed individuals receive any sort of high from
> > opiates – I did not make such an extreme statement. I said there was a
> > relationship between the two, that the bliss experienced on
> > opiates relates
> > to the degree of ego-repressed feeling. You grab stuff,
> > exaggerate it to an
> > extreme position and then criticize your own interpretation.
> > Welcome to the
> > wonderful world of manipulation! I see a great career in media or
> > politics
> > opening up before you.
> > BTW, this IS the classic trait for someone who is using belief
> > patterns to
> > hold down feelings. If something challenges the belief then repressed
> > feelings start to rise “OMG, what if I’m really like so!” or whatever and
> > the mind acts to push the feelings back down again, rearranging
> > what is said
> > into something it can criticize and expel. Frankly, I also see
> > myself doing
> > it at times! Letting go of beliefs can be a toughie.
> > Nick
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > From:  biscuitboy714@aol.com
> > Reply-To:  ibogaine@mindvox.com
> > To:  ibogaine@mindvox.com
> > Subject:  Re: [Ibogaine] Opiate effects
> > Date:  Sun, 02 Apr 2006 11:05:09 -0400
> > >Yea Ann, tell us how much heroin you shot last night. He He I
> > >couldn’t help it. I love you Mamma           Randy
> > >
> > >—–Original Message—–
> > >From: Alan Hehe <a.h.veil68@hotmail.com>
> > >To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
> > >Sent: Sat, 01 Apr 2006 11:15:03 -0500
> > >Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Opiate effects
> > >
> > >     Hey Ann,
> > >
> > >     Thank you for the compliment…Somebody’s got to try to counter
> > >his crazy ideas with some sense. Feel free to write me anytime..I
> > >really enjoy talking to people on this list and hearing their
> > >stories…Oh, don’t tell anyone, but I studied semantics and debate
> > >in high school! Just kidding…about the hush hush, as anyone will
> > >be able to read this. Oh, heck–LOL! I’m 37, and High school is but
> > >a distant, mainly unplesant experience…except when I would catch
> > >my English teacher making grammatical or syntactical mistakes,
> > >before they moved me into an A.P. college-level class…And no, I’m
> > >not conceited, either..but I do enjoy debate! Everyone has certain
> > >qualities at which they excel, and others at which they are
> > >deficient. I make up for my skill in English by being a retard in
> > >math! Plus, I couldn’t be that smart or I wouldn’t be here, looking
> > >for a way out of the hell-hole I dug for myself….and despite
> > >having a really shitty childhood, I take complete responsibility for
> > >my current position in
> > >life……………………………….Wishing you the best in
> > >all…….Alan.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >  ——–
> > >From: “Ann B. Mullikin” <think@francomm.com>
> > >Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
> > >To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
> > >Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Opiate effects
> > >Date: Sat, 1 Apr 2006 10:04:20 -0500
> > >
> > >  No, I am not Nick but…..
> > >
> > >  Bravo, Alan.  I surely do appreciate the way you use your brain –
> > >TO THINK AND TO REASON.  Its good stuff.  Keep on.
> > >
> > >ann
> > >think@francomm.com
> > >
> > >  —– Original Message —–
> > >From: Alan Hehe
> > >To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
> > >Sent: Friday, March 31, 2006 4:49 PM
> > >Subject: [Ibogaine] Opiate effects
> > >
> > >
> > >    Hey Nick,
> > >
> > >     I wanted to say that, although I was basically right, I believe
> > >(and according to the research I’ve done) about the reason opiates
> > >cause pleasure, I wasn’t entirely correct about the natural opiates
> > >(dopamine,etc) having an effect on mood. They do have an affect on
> > >mood..but then again, so does euphoria..in fact, it could be said to
> > >be a mood unto itself. Here’s a little medical info for: Opiates
> > >(heroin, morphine, etc.)
> > >
> > >  The human body naturally produces its own opiate-like substances
> > >and uses them as neurotransmitters. These substances include
> > >endorphins, enkephalins, and dynorphin, often collectively known as
> > >endogenous opioids. Endogenous opioids modulate our reactions to
> > >painful stimuli. They also regulate vital functions such as hunger
> > >and thirst and are involved in mood control, immune response, and
> > >other processes.
> > >
> > >The reason that opiates such as heroin and morphine affect us so
> > >powerfully is that these exogenous substances bind to the same
> > >receptors as our endogenous opioids. There are three kinds of
> > >receptors widely distributed throughout the brain: mu, delta, and
> > >kappa receptors.
> > >
> > >These receptors, through second messengers, influence the likelihood
> > >that ion channels will open, which in certain cases reduces the
> > >excitability of neurons. This reduced excitability is the likely
> > >source of the euphoric effect of opiates and appears to be mediated
> > >by the mu and delta receptors.
> > >
> > >This euphoric effect also appears to involve another mechanism in
> > >which the GABA-inhibitory interneurons of the ventral tegmental area
> > >come into play. By attaching to their mu receptors, exogenous
> > >opioids reduce the amount of GABA released (see animation).
> > >Normally, GABA reduces the amount of dopamine released in the
> > >nucleus accumbens. By inhibiting this inhibitor, the opiates
> > >ultimately increase the amount of dopamine produced and the amount
> > >of pleasure felt.
> > >
> > >Chronic consumption of opiates inhibits the production of cAMP, but
> > >this inhibition is offset in the long run by other cAMP production
> > >mechanisms. When no opiates are available, this increased cAMP
> > >production capacity comes to the fore and results in neural
> > >hyperactivity and the sensation of craving the drug.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >——–
> > >  Make FREE PC-to-PC calls with MSN Messenger. Get it now!
> > >/]=———————————————————————=
> > >[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands:
> > >http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
> > >\]=———————————————————————=
> > >[/
> > >
> > >
> > >——–
> > >  Find just what you’re after with the new, more precise MSN Search
> > >- try it now!
> > >/]=———————————————————————=
> > >[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands:
> > >http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
> > >\]=———————————————————————=
> > >[/
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >/]=————————————————————–
> > ——-=[\
> > >[%] Ibogaine List Commands:
> > >http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
> > >
> > >\]=————————————————————–
> > ——-=[/
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Be one of the first to try Windows Live Mail
> > /]=—————————————————————
> > ——=[\
> > [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html
> > [%]
> > \]=—————————————————————
> > ——=[/
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Play Trivia with MSN Messenger for a chance to win an XBOXT 360
> > prize pack!
> > /]=—————————————————————
> > ——=[\
> > [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html
> > [%]
> > \]=—————————————————————
> > ——=[/
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > /]=—————————————————————
> > ——=[\
> >  [%] Ibogaine List Commands:
> > http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
> >
> > \]=—————————————————————
> > ——=[/
> >
> >
>
>
>   /]=———————————————————————=[\
>  [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
>   \]=———————————————————————=[/
>
>

See if you’ve won, play MSN Search and Win /]=———————————————————————=[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%] \]=———————————————————————=[/

Get turn-by-turn driving directions you can really use – Windows Live Local is here! /]=———————————————————————=[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%] \]=———————————————————————=[/

From: “Alan Hehe” <a.h.veil68@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Pot calling the Kettle Black?
Date: April 5, 2006 at 3:05:04 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hey Randy..this list is so screwed, so you probably never got the post, but I apologized to you days ago, about the misunderstanding with your mother…who I had no idea really WAS your mother, or I probably wouldn’t have said anything, or if I did, it wouldn’t have been as caustic…Actually, I HAVE totally chilled out–by just staying away from this list, and all the posts, which I can’t seem to delete…they go away, and then come right back again! The thing with Nick really was a debate that just got a little too heated, and I even said I was sorry to him…though I may regret it–but I hope not. The only person that has REALLY pissed me off is that redneck Billy Goat..or Boy, whatever he calls himself. Anyone that has George Bush as a hero, and thinks that if you don’t like to eat meat because of the inhumane slaughter of animals, then you must be a Hindu cow lover. Nick at least is intelligent, and can debate somewhat intelligently…but that guy! I just don’t like red-neck, republican, types, who think we should be made to do what he thinks is right, or made NOT to do what he thinks is wrong. He actually BELIEVES the disinformation the Govt. puts out, I think…and don’t get me wrong, I DO respect the soldier, and sometimes war is neccesary..but what’s going on in the world today, with the U.S. policing practically the entire world and calling themselves (I live here but I refuse to identify myself with current policy) the Moral Majority! Basically, I just hate to be told what or what not to do–IF it doesn’t hurt anyone else, or infringe on their freedom…now, you could say that being pro-choice, with the abortion issue, is hurting someone else..but I think, up to a point, that a foetus is still just a part of the woman…I don’t like abortion, I like prevention..but sometimes it’s the lesser evil, IMO..I also think it’s very hipocritical to get all up in arms cause it’s our precious, oh so special children (or so right wing radicals call foetus’) but have no problem with the slaughtering of thousands of animals a day!  Well…I didn’t mean to carry-on so long. I’m getting ready to move, plus I’m in the process of learning some new songs on my guitar–or as Billy Boy would say, my gee-tar! So I won’t be around that much for a while anyway. I appreciate your advice, Randy–or BiscuitBoy, whichever you prefer–and I certainly have no beef with you–and you got a great Mom. It’s kinda weird to me that you can have that much openness with your mom..I envy you a bit…my mom’s 77 and from a whole different generation,,yeah, she had me late–I’m 38. Peace!

From:  “cm” <cm67@optusnet.com.au>
Reply-To:  ibogaine@mindvox.com
To:  <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Subject:  Re: [Ibogaine] Pot calling the Kettle Black?
Date:  Wed, 5 Apr 2006 12:24:24 +1000
>”fried my brain with ibogaine”
>  msg on the list from alan again
>will this be the one to finally send me insane
>
>sorry randy, that was the best a very sleepy chi chi could come up
>with.
>no offense directed at you alan.
>chi x
>—– Original Message —– From: <biscuitboy714@aol.com>
>To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
>Sent: Wednesday, April 05, 2006 10:53 AM
>Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Pot calling the Kettle Black?
>
>
>>Alan, dood, chill out willya? Let’s
>>see……………..uh……………..I am enjoying the debate
>>with Nick,………..my mom is quick to compliment intellegence, I
>>agree, No I don’t agree that only emotionally repressed people get
>>high off of opiates, actually I didn’t catch that, everybody gets
>>high off of opiates, it never fails if you do enough.
>>uh……………..I’ve done every opiate I ever came across until
>>I did Ibogaine. I seem to be able to pass on them now. I’m still
>>laughing at the thought of my mother working up a shot of brown. OK
>>so I answered your question. Let me make a point. LIGHTEN UP
>>BEAVIS……..dude I appreciate yoour passion, I was the same way
>>when I first found the list. I was not a happy camper. Sticking
>>around here I have lost my mind and now I try and find humor in the
>>little things in life. It gets me by. Please by no means take me
>>serious. I have fried my brain with Ibogaine. Hell that rymes
>>”fried my brain with Ibogaine…………somebody finish the line.
>>I’ll be serious tomorrow, I want to laugh today. “when the spoon is
>>hot and the needle’s shot……..drift away” Alice in Chains Randy
>>
>>—–Original Message—–
>>From: Alan Hehe <a.h.veil68@hotmail.com>
>>To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
>>Sent: Sun, 02 Apr 2006 12:31:45 -0400
>>Subject: [Ibogaine] Pot calling the Kettle Black?
>>
>>  Hey…uh, Biscuit Boy,
>>
>>  What’s the matter? Do you NOT like my debate with Nick, or do you
>>just not like the fact that Ann paid me a compliment? Do you agree
>>with Nick’s idea that only emotionally repressed individuals
>>receive any sort of high from opiates? If you’ve got something to
>>say, why not come out and say it? Have you never done opiates? Or
>>any drugs? What gives you the right to judge Ann? Personally I
>>don’t care if her comment was influened by a whole gram of Mexican
>>brown! Better a nice compliment from someone high, than a nasty one
>>from someone sober! Now, if I’ve misconstrued your intent, I
>>apologize, but I would appreciate a logical explanation rather than
>>a low-blow insinuation.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>——–
>>
>>From: biscuitboy714@aol.com
>>Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
>>To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
>>Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Opiate effects
>>Date: Sun, 02 Apr 2006 11:05:09 -0400
>> >Yea Ann, tell us how much heroin you shot last night. He He I
>> >couldn’t help it. I love you Mamma Randy
>> >
>> >—–Original Message—–
>> >From: Alan Hehe <a.h.veil68@hotmail.com>
>> >To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
>> >Sent: Sat, 01 Apr 2006 11:15:03 -0500
>> >Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Opiate effects
>> >
>> > Hey Ann,
>> >
>> > Thank you for the compliment…Somebody’s got to try to counter
>> >his crazy ideas with some sense. Feel free to write me anytime..I
>> >really enjoy talking to people on this list and hearing their
>> >stories…Oh, don’t tell anyone, but I studied semantics and
>>debate
>> >in high school! Just kidding…about the hush hush, as anyone
>>will
>> >be able to read this. Oh, heck–LOL! I’m 37, and High school is
>>but
>> >a distant, mainly unplesant experience…except when I would
>>catch
>> >my English teacher making grammatical or syntactical mistakes,
>> >before they moved me into an A.P. college-level class…And no,
>>I’m
>> >not conceited, either..but I do enjoy debate! Everyone has
>>certain
>> >qualities at which they excel, and others at which they are
>> >deficient. I make up for my skill in English by being a retard in
>> >math! Plus, I couldn’t be that smart or I wouldn’t be here,
>>looking
>> >for a way out of the hell-hole I dug for myself….and despite
>> >having a really shitty childhood, I take complete responsibility
>>for
>> >my current position in
>> >life……………………………….Wishing you the best in
>> >all…….Alan.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > ——–
>> >From: “Ann B. Mullikin” <think@francomm.com>
>> >Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
>> >To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
>> >Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Opiate effects
>> >Date: Sat, 1 Apr 2006 10:04:20 -0500
>> >
>> > No, I am not Nick but…..
>> >
>> > Bravo, Alan. I surely do appreciate the way you use your brain –
>> >TO THINK AND TO REASON. Its good stuff. Keep on.
>> > ann
>> >think@francomm.com
>> >
>> > —– Original Message —–
>> >From: Alan Hehe
>> >To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
>> >Sent: Friday, March 31, 2006 4:49 PM
>> >Subject: [Ibogaine] Opiate effects
>> >
>> >
>> > Hey Nick,
>> >
>> > I wanted to say that, although I was basically right, I believe
>> >(and according to the research I’ve done) about the reason
>>opiates
>> >cause pleasure, I wasn’t entirely correct about the natural
>>opiates
>> >(dopamine,etc) having an effect on mood. They do have an affect
>>on
>> >mood..but then again, so does euphoria..in fact, it could be said
>>to
>> >be a mood unto itself. Here’s a little medical info for: Opiates
>> >(heroin, morphine, etc.)
>> >
>> > The human body naturally produces its own opiate-like substances
>> >and uses them as neurotransmitters. These substances include
>> >endorphins, enkephalins, and dynorphin, often collectively known
>>as
>> >endogenous opioids. Endogenous opioids modulate our reactions to
>> >painful stimuli. They also regulate vital functions such as
>>hunger
>> >and thirst and are involved in mood control, immune response, and
>> >other processes.
>> >
>> >The reason that opiates such as heroin and morphine affect us so
>> >powerfully is that these exogenous substances bind to the same
>> >receptors as our endogenous opioids. There are three kinds of
>> >receptors widely distributed throughout the brain: mu, delta, and
>> >kappa receptors.
>> >
>> >These receptors, through second messengers, influence the
>>likelihood
>> >that ion channels will open, which in certain cases reduces the
>> >excitability of neurons. This reduced excitability is the likely
>> >source of the euphoric effect of opiates and appears to be
>>mediated
>> >by the mu and delta receptors.
>> >
>> >This euphoric effect also appears to involve another mechanism in
>> >which the GABA-inhibitory interneurons of the ventral tegmental
>>area
>> >come into play. By attaching to their mu receptors, exogenous
>> >opioids reduce the amount of GABA released (see animation).
>> >Normally, GABA reduces the amount of dopamine released in the
>> >nucleus accumbens. By inhibiting this inhibitor, the opiates
>> >ultimately increase the amount of dopamine produced and the
>>amount
>> >of pleasure felt.
>> >
>> >Chronic consumption of opiates inhibits the production of cAMP,
>>but
>> >this inhibition is offset in the long run by other cAMP
>>production
>> >mechanisms. When no opiates are available, this increased cAMP
>> >production capacity comes to the fore and results in neural
>> >hyperactivity and the sensation of craving the drug.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >——–
>> > Make FREE PC-to-PC calls with MSN Messenger. Get it now!
>>
>> >/]=———————————————————————
>>=
>> >[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands:
>> >http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
>>
>> >\]=———————————————————————
>>=
>> >[/
>> >
>> >
>> >——–
>> > Find just what you’re after with the new, more precise MSN
>>Search
>> >- try it now!
>>
>> >/]=———————————————————————
>>=
>> >[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands:
>> >http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
>>
>> >\]=———————————————————————
>>=
>> >[/
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>
>> >/]=———————————————————————
>>=[\
>> >[%] Ibogaine List Commands:
>> >http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
>> >
>>
>> >\]=———————————————————————
>>=[/
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>>——–
>>  Be one of the first to try Windows Live Mail
>>/]=———————————————————————=
>>[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands:
>>http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
>>\]=———————————————————————=
>>[/
>>
>>
>>
>>/]=———————————————————————=[\
>>[%] Ibogaine List Commands:
>>http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
>>
>>\]=———————————————————————=[/
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>/]=———————————————————————=[\
>[%] Ibogaine List Commands:
>http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
>
>\]=———————————————————————=[/
>
>

Play Trivia with MSN Messenger for a chance to win an XBOX™ 360 prize pack!  /]=———————————————————————=[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%] \]=———————————————————————=[/

From: “pascall roland” <pascal-roland@hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] to Sara Glatt : Muslim and Islam / bibliography
Date: April 5, 2006 at 2:26:39 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hey Sara,

what’s your bibliography, eventually books or articles of reference you did read, to come up with such a detailed biography of this Mohammad?

rgds

Pascal

From: “Billy J” <billjohnson6@sympatico.ca>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Muslim and Islam
Date: Tue, 04 Apr 2006 18:53:30 -0400

I have never heard the full story about muhammad, All I knew was that he was not very nice and that if anyone ever spoke bad about him or Rather spoke of the factual(provable) Truths about Him- You would have a bounty on your head and It would be an honor for another Muslim to Kill you.

Thats what I heard, and just recently those cartoons about Him- Well is that Author still Alive?
SCARY! and The Cats In the Cradle

Well How bout those Leafs,
Looks like they will fall early this season.
Billy

—-Original Message Follows—-
From: “Sara Glatt” <sara119@xs4all.nl>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] OT from methadone list – Herman Joseph on stigma           and methadone
Date: Tue, 4 Apr 2006 18:54:26 +0200 (CEST)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Received: from tomts3-srv.bellnexxia.net ([209.226.175.115]) by bay0-pamc1-f3.bay0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Tue, 4 Apr 2006 09:55:17 -0700
Received: from toip6.bellnexxia.net ([209.226.175.174])          by tomts3-srv.bellnexxia.net          (InterMail vM.5.01.06.13 201-253-122-130-113-20050324) with ESMTP          id <20060404165620.CMAH19199.tomts3-srv.bellnexxia.net@toip6.bellnexxia.net>          for <billjohnson6@sympatico.ca>; Tue, 4 Apr 2006 12:56:20 -0400
Received: from tanelorn.mindvox.com (HELO mail.mindvox.com) ([64.124.179.118])  by toip6.bellnexxia.net with ESMTP; 04 Apr 2006 12:55:11 -0400
Received: (qmail 22657 invoked by uid 513); 4 Apr 2006 12:55:10 -0400
Received: (qmail 22626 invoked by uid 514); 4 Apr 2006 12:55:09 -0400
X-Message-Info: moY6YVwXQ45fcDA8x/Dnaa0jZLW344Rn1x2d9JxdMEQ=
Mailing-List: contact ibogaine-help@mindvox.com; run by ezmlm
Precedence: bulk
X-No-Archive: yes
List-Post: <mailto:ibogaine@mindvox.com>
List-Help: <mailto:ibogaine-help@mindvox.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:ibogaine-unsubscribe@mindvox.com>
List-Subscribe: <mailto:ibogaine-subscribe@mindvox.com>
Delivered-To: mailing list ibogaine@mindvox.com
X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.3 required=4.0
X-Antivirus-MYDOMAIN-Mail-From: sara119@xs4all.nl via tanelorn.mindvox.com
X-Antivirus-MYDOMAIN: 1.25-st-qms (Clear:RC:0(194.109.24.37):SA:0(-2.3/4.0):. Processed in 6.616688 secs Process 22503)
References: <20060403120213.6A05B2ECAD@smtp02.isdsl.net>
User-Agent: SquirrelMail/1.4.5
X-Virus-Scanned: by XS4ALL Virus Scanner
Return-Path: ibogaine-return-23330-billjohnson6=sympatico.ca@mindvox.com
X-OriginalArrivalTime: 04 Apr 2006 16:55:17.0357 (UTC) FILETIME=[8CE701D0:01C65808]

>not totally, I have started only it is not very exciting reading and so I
stoped.but I wonder what that nine years old girl would feel like if
someone
have told her that it was her responsiblity for everything that happend to
her, and that millions of people thinks “It ok , it’s what Allah wants”.

if you are brain washed how can you become responsible for it?

Sara

Sara have you read the Koran/?
> Guy
> —–Original Message—–
> From: Sara Glatt [mailto:sara119@xs4all.nl]
> Sent: 02 April 2006 16:29
> To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
> Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] OT from methadone list – Herman Joseph on stigma
> and
> methadone
>
> “I am 100% responsible for everything that happens to me.” Nick Wrote,
>
>
> I think that people in a confused mind setting can not be responsible for
> everything that happens to them.
>
> How the above is valid in the below info., nine years old girl,huh, and
> the rest. well they are not drug addicts but religion is an opiate of the
> people, when there is no religion then drug use become a ritual and a
> religion.
>
> These are just some of the facts that Muslims have been keeping secret,
> but they are
> enough to make any reasonable person doubt the validity of Islam. Muhammad
> was
> guilty of countless murders and of torturing his victims. He robbed
> caravans and
> participated in the slave-trade. His persecution of the Jews bordered on
> genocide.
> His polygamy went beyond that which even his own revelations permitted
> (though he
> did receive a revelation saying that this was okay for him). One of his
> wives was a
> nine-year-old girl, whose earliest duties in Muhammad’s house included the
> constant
> task of washing the semen stains off his clothes. At times he believed he
> was
> demon-possessed or under the effect of magic. He was known to be suicidal.
> He
> admittedly received a message from Satan and delivered it to the people as
> if it
> were from God. He declared that women have half the intellectual ability
> that men
> have, that it is okay for men to beat their wives, that most of the
> inhabitants of
> hell are women, and that, even if a woman somehow makes it to heaven, her
> eternity
> will consist of standing in a corner, waiting for men to sexually enjoy
> her.[21]
>
> These details about Muhammad raise a very important question: What does a
> prophet
> have to do before Muslims will be willing to question whether he is truly
> the
> greatest moral example in history? Normally, when we say that someone is a
> moral
> person, we mean that he doesn’t commit acts such as robbery and murder.
> Yet Muhammad
> did all these things and much more. It appears, then, that Muslims are
> using the
> term “moral” in a very unique way. In this uniquely Muslim sense of the
> term, the
> word “moral” is defined as “whatever Muhammad does.” Thus, if Muhammad
> were to chop
> off the heads of hundreds of people (which he did), this act would still
> be defined
> as a moral act, since Muhammad did it, and anything Muhammad does is, by
> definition,
> moral.
>
> But this raises another important question. If God’s greatest prophet is
> free to
> take part in murder, robbery, genocide, and slave-trading, can we really
> point a
> finger at people like Osama bin Laden and Saddam Hussein and say that they
> are evil?
> They killed many innocents, but so did Muhammad. Saddam tortured countless
> people,
> but so did Muhammad. In fact, one could make a case that Osama bin Laden
> is morally
> superior to Muhammad, for, while bin Laden killed thousands of people, he
> didn’t
> sell their wives and children into slavery, or have sex with a little
> girl, or marry
> more than a dozen women.
>
> The truth about Muhammad has been one of the world’s best-kept secrets.
> For
> centuries, it has been virtually impossible to raise objections about the
> character
> of Muhammad in Muslim countries, for anyone who raised such objections
> would
> (following the example set by Muhammad himself) immediately be killed.
> Outside the
> Muslim world, there has been little interest in Islam, and those who have
> been
> interested have typically relied on modern Muslim reports about Muhammad,
> such as
> the above passage from Mawdudi. But things have changed. Now many people
> are
> interested in Islam, and Muslims aren’t able to silence everyone.
> Moreover, with the
> advent of the Internet, it is now impossible to keep Muhammad’s life a
> secret. The
> facts about the founder of Islam are spreading very rapidly, and Muslims
> are
> frantically scurrying to defend their faith. But the information
> superhighway is
> paving over the ignorance that has for centuries been the stronghold of
> Islamic
> dogma. In the end, Islam will fall, for the entire structure is built upon
> the
> belief that Muhammad was the greatest moral example in history, and this
> belief is
> demonstrably false.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> /]=———————————————————————=[\
>  [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html
> [%]
>
> \]=———————————————————————=[/
>
>
>
>
>   /]=———————————————————————=[\
>  [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html
> [%]
>   \]=———————————————————————=[/
>
>
>

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

_________________________________________________________________
FREE pop-up blocking with the new MSN Toolbar – get it now! http://toolbar.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200415ave/direct/01/

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: captkirk <captkirk@clear.net.nz>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Please stoooppppppppppp!
Date: April 5, 2006 at 1:20:57 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Angela,
We don’t actually have a chat room…. although I think it
would be a great addition to Mindvox/Ibogaine, might cut
down on the noise here…..
Things have been screwy with the internet lately…..aliens
most likely.
Perhaps contact Patrick, he might know what happened…
all the best
Kirsty

—– Original Message Follows —–
Some how your entire chatroom ended up in my e-mail while
my computer was  down….I’ve spent  days erasing over 350
e-mails!!!!!!!!!!!!!!….I would  love to go to your chat
room but I don’t want it in my e-mail….. so please  make
it stop……thank you angela

__________________________________________________________
_______ Don’t just search. Find. Check out the new MSN
Search!

http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/

/]=——————————————————-
————–=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands:
http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]

)=——————————————————-
————–=[/

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: “angela baker” <angela71263@hotmail.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] Please stoooppppppppppp!
Date: April 5, 2006 at 12:47:16 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Some how your entire chatroom ended up in my e-mail while my computer was down….I’ve spent  days erasing over 350 e-mails!!!!!!!!!!!!!!….I would love to go to your chat room but I don’t want it in my e-mail….. so please make it stop……thank you angela

_________________________________________________________________
Don’t just search. Find. Check out the new MSN Search! http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: captkirk <captkirk@clear.net.nz>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine]att; Kristy
Date: April 5, 2006 at 12:28:58 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

huh?  was that the punchline? hehehe
Now HERE’S the REAL story on the God made… blah blah (btw
I’ve seen God and She’s Black)
WHY DID GOD MAKE MEN BEFORE WOMEN?
(you need a rough draft before you make a final copy)
Next……
;o)
luff lite n lafta
KIRSTY (not kristy, but i forgive ya lol)

—– Original Message Follows —–
Why did God Make Women?

I’ll tell you tomorrow
bill

—-Original Message Follows—-
From: captkirk <captkirk@clear.net.nz>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine]att; cpt kirk
Date: Wed, 05 Apr 2006 14:55:22 +1200
Received: from tomts39-srv.bellnexxia.net
([209.226.175.96]) by  bay0-pamc1-f3.bay0.hotmail.com with
Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Tue, 4  Apr 2006
19:55:35 -0700 Received: from toip2.bellnexxia.net
([209.226.175.85])          by  tomts39-srv.bellnexxia.net
(InterMail vM.5.01.06.10
201-253-122-130-110-20040306) with ESMTP          id
<20060405025534.ZLOT11764.tomts39-srv.bellnexxia.net@toip2
.bellnexxia.net>
for <billjohnson6@sympatico.ca>; Tue, 4 Apr 2006
22:55:34 -0400 Received: from tanelorn.mindvox.com (HELO
mail.mindvox.com)  ([64.124.179.118])  by
toip2.bellnexxia.net with ESMTP; 04 Apr 2006 22:55:29
-0400 Received: (qmail 27767 invoked by uid 513); 4 Apr
2006 22:55:25 -0400 Received: (qmail 27761 invoked by uid
514); 4 Apr 2006 22:55:25 -0400 X-Message-Info:
moY6YVwXQ44smOpv7qYI/Ah3PzZNZdWAW4AB+nb94bU= Mailing-List:
contact ibogaine-help@mindvox.com; run by ezmlm
Precedence: bulk X-No-Archive: yes
List-Post: <mailto:ibogaine@mindvox.com>
List-Help: <mailto:ibogaine-help@mindvox.com>
List-Unsubscribe:
<mailto:ibogaine-unsubscribe@mindvox.com> List-Subscribe:
<mailto:ibogaine-subscribe@mindvox.com> Delivered-To:
mailing list ibogaine@mindvox.com X-Spam-Status: No,
hits=-1.9 required=4.0 X-Antivirus-MYDOMAIN-Mail-From:
captkirk@clear.net.nz via  tanelorn.mindvox.com
X-Antivirus-MYDOMAIN: 1.25-st-qms
(Clear:RC:0(203.97.33.27):SA:0(-1.9/4.0):.  Processed in
2.400839 secs Process 27743) X-Mailer: CLEAR Net WebMail;
webmail.clear.net.nz; user: captkirk; ip:  222.153.172.125
Priority: normal
Return-Path:
ibogaine-return-23345-billjohnson6=sympatico.ca@mindvox.co
m X-OriginalArrivalTime: 05 Apr 2006 02:55:35.0482 (UTC)
FILETIME=[6960B9A0:01C6585C]

LMAO!!!
I stand corrected.
Unless we could lengthen it to PMS because of MSB????????
Heheheheh.
Here’s one for  u gals though i have to admit this Has
never really bothered me.
HOW MANY MEN DOES IT TAKE TO PUT A TOILET SEAT DOWN?
(don’t know…..it never happened)
Kirsty

—– Original Message Follows —–
hi kirsty, seeing as there has been so much
‘correcting’
of other peoples  opinions
on the list lately, theres one thing ive got to
straighten up with you.
its about the whole PMS (putting up with mens shit)
thing. in OZ the male
equivalent to PMS is and always will be MSB (massive
sperm build-up)
makes for some very moody men. hehehehehe
lotsa love chi xxxoo

—– Original Message —–
From: “captkirk” <captkirk@clear.net.nz>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Tuesday, April 04, 2006 3:00 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Why Be Mean?

lol billy, I thought that was rather tame compared
with
“other emails which shall remain
un-named”………….
Feels like PMS to me (Putting Up with Men’s
Shit….).
Ok, I’ll go read a book now…..
;o)
“Scientology for Dummies”

/]=——————————————————-
————–=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands:
http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]

)=——————————————————-
————–=[/

/]=——————————————————-
————–=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands:
http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html  [%]

)=——————————————————-
————–=[/

/]=——————————————————-
————–=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands:
http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]

)=——————————————————-
————–=[/

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] Iboga and Ibogaine
Date: April 5, 2006 at 12:20:19 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

“Pharmacodynamics and Therapeutic Applications of Iboga and Ibogaine – Now with a linked table of contents. This historically important review article by Robert Goutarel, Otto Gollnhofer and Roger Sillans was written by an earlier generation of ibogaine researchers in support of Howard Lotsof’s discovery and research into the antiaddictive qualities of ibogaine.”

For those of you who want a comprehensive review article covering all aspects of ibogaine history from Africa to its clinical use in psychotherapy and chemical dependence see http://www.ibogaine.desk.nl/bwiti1.html

Enjoy.

Howard

From: “Billy J” <billjohnson6@sympatico.ca>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine]att; Kristy
Date: April 5, 2006 at 12:12:48 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Why did God Make Women?

I’ll tell you tomorrow
bill

—-Original Message Follows—-
From: captkirk <captkirk@clear.net.nz>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine]att; cpt kirk
Date: Wed, 05 Apr 2006 14:55:22 +1200
Received: from tomts39-srv.bellnexxia.net ([209.226.175.96]) by bay0-pamc1-f3.bay0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Tue, 4 Apr 2006 19:55:35 -0700
Received: from toip2.bellnexxia.net ([209.226.175.85])          by tomts39-srv.bellnexxia.net          (InterMail vM.5.01.06.10 201-253-122-130-110-20040306) with ESMTP          id <20060405025534.ZLOT11764.tomts39-srv.bellnexxia.net@toip2.bellnexxia.net>          for <billjohnson6@sympatico.ca>; Tue, 4 Apr 2006 22:55:34 -0400
Received: from tanelorn.mindvox.com (HELO mail.mindvox.com) ([64.124.179.118])  by toip2.bellnexxia.net with ESMTP; 04 Apr 2006 22:55:29 -0400
Received: (qmail 27767 invoked by uid 513); 4 Apr 2006 22:55:25 -0400
Received: (qmail 27761 invoked by uid 514); 4 Apr 2006 22:55:25 -0400
X-Message-Info: moY6YVwXQ44smOpv7qYI/Ah3PzZNZdWAW4AB+nb94bU=
Mailing-List: contact ibogaine-help@mindvox.com; run by ezmlm
Precedence: bulk
X-No-Archive: yes
List-Post: <mailto:ibogaine@mindvox.com>
List-Help: <mailto:ibogaine-help@mindvox.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:ibogaine-unsubscribe@mindvox.com>
List-Subscribe: <mailto:ibogaine-subscribe@mindvox.com>
Delivered-To: mailing list ibogaine@mindvox.com
X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.9 required=4.0
X-Antivirus-MYDOMAIN-Mail-From: captkirk@clear.net.nz via tanelorn.mindvox.com
X-Antivirus-MYDOMAIN: 1.25-st-qms (Clear:RC:0(203.97.33.27):SA:0(-1.9/4.0):. Processed in 2.400839 secs Process 27743)
X-Mailer: CLEAR Net WebMail; webmail.clear.net.nz; user: captkirk; ip: 222.153.172.125
Priority: normal
Return-Path: ibogaine-return-23345-billjohnson6=sympatico.ca@mindvox.com
X-OriginalArrivalTime: 05 Apr 2006 02:55:35.0482 (UTC) FILETIME=[6960B9A0:01C6585C]

LMAO!!!
I stand corrected.
Unless we could lengthen it to PMS because of MSB????????
Heheheheh.
Here’s one for  u gals though i have to admit this Has never
really bothered me.
HOW MANY MEN DOES IT TAKE TO PUT A TOILET SEAT DOWN?
(don’t know…..it never happened)
Kirsty

—– Original Message Follows —–
>  hi kirsty, seeing as there has been so much ‘correcting’
> of other peoples  opinions
>  on the list lately, theres one thing ive got to
> straighten up with you.
>  its about the whole PMS (putting up with mens shit)
> thing. in OZ the male
>  equivalent to PMS is and always will be MSB (massive
> sperm build-up)
>  makes for some very moody men. hehehehehe
>  lotsa love chi xxxoo
>
>
> —– Original Message —–
> From: “captkirk” <captkirk@clear.net.nz>
> To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, April 04, 2006 3:00 PM
> Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Why Be Mean?
>
>
> > lol billy, I thought that was rather tame compared with
> > “other emails which shall remain un-named”………….
> > Feels like PMS to me (Putting Up with Men’s Shit….).
> > Ok, I’ll go read a book now…..
> > ;o)
> > “Scientology for Dummies”
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
> /]=——————————————————-
> ————–=[\
>  [%] Ibogaine List Commands:
> http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
>
> )=——————————————————-
> ————–=[/
>
>

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: captkirk <captkirk@clear.net.nz>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine]att; cpt kirk
Date: April 4, 2006 at 10:55:22 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

LMAO!!!
I stand corrected.
Unless we could lengthen it to PMS because of MSB????????
Heheheheh.
Here’s one for  u gals though i have to admit this Has never
really bothered me.
HOW MANY MEN DOES IT TAKE TO PUT A TOILET SEAT DOWN?
(don’t know…..it never happened)
Kirsty

—– Original Message Follows —–
hi kirsty, seeing as there has been so much ‘correcting’
of other peoples  opinions
on the list lately, theres one thing ive got to
straighten up with you.
its about the whole PMS (putting up with mens shit)
thing. in OZ the male
equivalent to PMS is and always will be MSB (massive
sperm build-up)
makes for some very moody men. hehehehehe
lotsa love chi xxxoo

—– Original Message —–
From: “captkirk” <captkirk@clear.net.nz>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Tuesday, April 04, 2006 3:00 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Why Be Mean?

lol billy, I thought that was rather tame compared with
“other emails which shall remain un-named”………….
Feels like PMS to me (Putting Up with Men’s Shit….).
Ok, I’ll go read a book now…..
;o)
“Scientology for Dummies”

/]=——————————————————-
————–=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands:
http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]

)=——————————————————-
————–=[/

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: “cm” <cm67@optusnet.com.au>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine]att; cpt kirk
Date: April 4, 2006 at 10:54:52 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

hi kirsty, seeing as there has been so much ‘correcting’ of other peoples opinions
on the list lately, theres one thing ive got to straighten up with you.
its about the whole PMS (putting up with mens shit) thing. in OZ the male
equivalent to PMS is and always will be MSB (massive sperm build-up)
makes for some very moody men. hehehehehe
lotsa love chi xxxoo

—– Original Message —– From: “captkirk” <captkirk@clear.net.nz>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Tuesday, April 04, 2006 3:00 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Why Be Mean?

lol billy, I thought that was rather tame compared with
“other emails which shall remain un-named”………….
Feels like PMS to me (Putting Up with Men’s Shit….).
Ok, I’ll go read a book now…..
;o)
“Scientology for Dummies”

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: “cm” <cm67@optusnet.com.au>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Pot calling the Kettle Black?
Date: April 4, 2006 at 10:24:24 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

“fried my brain with ibogaine”
msg on the list from alan again
will this be the one to finally send me insane

sorry randy, that was the best a very sleepy chi chi could come up with.
no offense directed at you alan.
chi x
—– Original Message —– From: <biscuitboy714@aol.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Wednesday, April 05, 2006 10:53 AM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Pot calling the Kettle Black?

Alan, dood, chill out willya? Let’s see……………..uh……………..I am enjoying the debate with Nick,………..my mom is quick to compliment intellegence, I agree, No I don’t agree that only emotionally repressed people get high off of opiates, actually I didn’t catch that, everybody gets high off of opiates, it never fails if you do enough. uh……………..I’ve done every opiate I ever came across until I did Ibogaine. I seem to be able to pass on them now. I’m still laughing at the thought of my mother working up a shot of brown. OK so I answered your question. Let me make a point. LIGHTEN UP BEAVIS……..dude I appreciate yoour passion, I was the same way when I first found the list. I was not a happy camper. Sticking around here I have lost my mind and now I try and find humor in the little things in life. It gets me by. Please by no means take me serious. I have fried my brain with Ibogaine. Hell that rymes “fried my brain with Ibogaine…………somebody finish the line. I’ll be serious tomorrow, I want to laugh today. “when the spoon is hot and the needle’s shot……..drift away” Alice in Chains Randy

—–Original Message—–
From: Alan Hehe <a.h.veil68@hotmail.com>
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Sun, 02 Apr 2006 12:31:45 -0400
Subject: [Ibogaine] Pot calling the Kettle Black?

Hey…uh, Biscuit Boy,

What’s the matter? Do you NOT like my debate with Nick, or do you just not like the fact that Ann paid me a compliment? Do you agree with Nick’s idea that only emotionally repressed individuals receive any sort of high from opiates? If you’ve got something to say, why not come out and say it? Have you never done opiates? Or any drugs? What gives you the right to judge Ann? Personally I don’t care if her comment was influened by a whole gram of Mexican brown! Better a nice compliment from someone high, than a nasty one from someone sober! Now, if I’ve misconstrued your intent, I apologize, but I would appreciate a logical explanation rather than a low-blow insinuation.

——–

From: biscuitboy714@aol.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Opiate effects
Date: Sun, 02 Apr 2006 11:05:09 -0400
>Yea Ann, tell us how much heroin you shot last night. He He I
>couldn’t help it. I love you Mamma Randy
>
>—–Original Message—–
>From: Alan Hehe <a.h.veil68@hotmail.com>
>To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
>Sent: Sat, 01 Apr 2006 11:15:03 -0500
>Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Opiate effects
>
> Hey Ann,
>
> Thank you for the compliment…Somebody’s got to try to counter
>his crazy ideas with some sense. Feel free to write me anytime..I
>really enjoy talking to people on this list and hearing their
>stories…Oh, don’t tell anyone, but I studied semantics and debate
>in high school! Just kidding…about the hush hush, as anyone will
>be able to read this. Oh, heck–LOL! I’m 37, and High school is but
>a distant, mainly unplesant experience…except when I would catch
>my English teacher making grammatical or syntactical mistakes,
>before they moved me into an A.P. college-level class…And no, I’m
>not conceited, either..but I do enjoy debate! Everyone has certain
>qualities at which they excel, and others at which they are
>deficient. I make up for my skill in English by being a retard in
>math! Plus, I couldn’t be that smart or I wouldn’t be here, looking
>for a way out of the hell-hole I dug for myself….and despite
>having a really shitty childhood, I take complete responsibility for
>my current position in
>life……………………………….Wishing you the best in
>all…….Alan.
>
>
>
> ——–
>From: “Ann B. Mullikin” <think@francomm.com>
>Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
>To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
>Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Opiate effects
>Date: Sat, 1 Apr 2006 10:04:20 -0500
>
> No, I am not Nick but…..
>
> Bravo, Alan. I surely do appreciate the way you use your brain –
>TO THINK AND TO REASON. Its good stuff. Keep on.
> ann
>think@francomm.com
>
> —– Original Message —–
>From: Alan Hehe
>To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
>Sent: Friday, March 31, 2006 4:49 PM
>Subject: [Ibogaine] Opiate effects
>
>
> Hey Nick,
>
> I wanted to say that, although I was basically right, I believe
>(and according to the research I’ve done) about the reason opiates
>cause pleasure, I wasn’t entirely correct about the natural opiates
>(dopamine,etc) having an effect on mood. They do have an affect on
>mood..but then again, so does euphoria..in fact, it could be said to
>be a mood unto itself. Here’s a little medical info for: Opiates
>(heroin, morphine, etc.)
>
> The human body naturally produces its own opiate-like substances
>and uses them as neurotransmitters. These substances include
>endorphins, enkephalins, and dynorphin, often collectively known as
>endogenous opioids. Endogenous opioids modulate our reactions to
>painful stimuli. They also regulate vital functions such as hunger
>and thirst and are involved in mood control, immune response, and
>other processes.
>
>The reason that opiates such as heroin and morphine affect us so
>powerfully is that these exogenous substances bind to the same
>receptors as our endogenous opioids. There are three kinds of
>receptors widely distributed throughout the brain: mu, delta, and
>kappa receptors.
>
>These receptors, through second messengers, influence the likelihood
>that ion channels will open, which in certain cases reduces the
>excitability of neurons. This reduced excitability is the likely
>source of the euphoric effect of opiates and appears to be mediated
>by the mu and delta receptors.
>
>This euphoric effect also appears to involve another mechanism in
>which the GABA-inhibitory interneurons of the ventral tegmental area
>come into play. By attaching to their mu receptors, exogenous
>opioids reduce the amount of GABA released (see animation).
>Normally, GABA reduces the amount of dopamine released in the
>nucleus accumbens. By inhibiting this inhibitor, the opiates
>ultimately increase the amount of dopamine produced and the amount
>of pleasure felt.
>
>Chronic consumption of opiates inhibits the production of cAMP, but
>this inhibition is offset in the long run by other cAMP production
>mechanisms. When no opiates are available, this increased cAMP
>production capacity comes to the fore and results in neural
>hyperactivity and the sensation of craving the drug.
>
>
>
>
>——–
> Make FREE PC-to-PC calls with MSN Messenger. Get it now!

>/]=———————————————————————
=
>[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands:
>http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]

>\]=———————————————————————
=
>[/
>
>
>——–
> Find just what you’re after with the new, more precise MSN Search
>- try it now!

>/]=———————————————————————
=
>[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands:
>http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]

>\]=———————————————————————
=
>[/
>
>
>
>

>/]=———————————————————————
=[\
>[%] Ibogaine List Commands:
>http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
>

>\]=———————————————————————
=[/
>
>

——–
Be one of the first to try Windows Live Mail /]=———————————————————————=
[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%] \]=———————————————————————=
[/

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: “Billy J” <billjohnson6@sympatico.ca>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Guy,& South Africa
Date: April 4, 2006 at 9:27:27 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Well guy, being from Canada, and always thinking of Africa as a Jungle, It is hard to imagane it being civilized, Not really, but I did grow up thing that Africa was just 1 big Zoo.
Can you tell me how you went about your Ibo trip as it may turn out that if I cannot for some reason get into a clinic I may just Purchase some Ibogaine and do it, It really thrills me to think about being totally clean again, even for 1 day, a whole 24 hour period,
Even when I miss my Meth and Can’t get Oxys, and I have no choice but to do without, I feel better, Yet really scared, because I know what comes next, and its that pain and incompacitation
that takes me over the edge, and you want to talk about emotions, oh ya. Bad.

Billy ,

—-Original Message Follows—-
From: “Guy Bragge” <guybragge@mweb.co.za>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Tired & OK Today
Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2006 07:11:02 +0200
MIME-Version: 1.0
Received: from tomts19-srv.bellnexxia.net ([209.226.175.73]) by bay0-pamc1-f4.bay0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Tue, 4 Apr 2006 01:16:26 -0700
Received: from toip2.bellnexxia.net ([209.226.175.85])          by tomts19-srv.bellnexxia.net          (InterMail vM.5.01.06.13 201-253-122-130-113-20050324) with ESMTP          id <20060404081626.GRKL13097.tomts19-srv.bellnexxia.net@toip2.bellnexxia.net>          for <billjohnson6@sympatico.ca>; Tue, 4 Apr 2006 04:16:26 -0400
Received: from tanelorn.mindvox.com (HELO mail.mindvox.com) ([64.124.179.118])  by toip2.bellnexxia.net with ESMTP; 04 Apr 2006 04:16:22 -0400
Received: (qmail 8444 invoked by uid 513); 4 Apr 2006 04:16:20 -0400
Received: (qmail 8428 invoked by uid 514); 4 Apr 2006 04:16:20 -0400
X-Message-Info: JGTYoYF78jEfIzrqkOUc035wgljFFdcJfgltDpypocI=
Mailing-List: contact ibogaine-help@mindvox.com; run by ezmlm
Precedence: bulk
X-No-Archive: yes
List-Post: <mailto:ibogaine@mindvox.com>
List-Help: <mailto:ibogaine-help@mindvox.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:ibogaine-unsubscribe@mindvox.com>
List-Subscribe: <mailto:ibogaine-subscribe@mindvox.com>
Delivered-To: mailing list ibogaine@mindvox.com
X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.1 required=4.0
X-Antivirus-MYDOMAIN-Mail-From: guybragge@mweb.co.za via tanelorn.mindvox.com
X-Antivirus-MYDOMAIN: 1.25-st-qms (Clear:RC:0(196.2.45.87):SA:0(-2.1/4.0):. Processed in 14.993401 secs Process 8221)
X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.5510
Thread-Index: AcZVY59W0hDyxoC3SOCCdiqmTy5G/ABHDL9g
X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV using ClamSMTP
Return-Path: ibogaine-return-23309-billjohnson6=sympatico.ca@mindvox.com
X-OriginalArrivalTime: 04 Apr 2006 08:16:26.0640 (UTC) FILETIME=[118C9100:01C657C0]

Hi Bill looking forward to lunch. I am a similar age and have years of
problems with almost all the substances. I have rehabbed and detoxed more
times than I can remember. I have been aware of Ibo for about 6 years but I
live in South Africa and could not find it or the right people. A couple of
months ago I found some amazing people here and did the Ibo. I have been
clean for almost 6 amazing weeks. I felt like Ibo was my last chance, in
that I was close to giving up and giving in to the drugs. Ibogaine has
changed my life. Before I did I was asking questions like, what if it
doesn’t work etc. Well it did. Bill, you may have found the answer to your
substance problems.
Best of luck
Guy
Ps where is lunch

—–Original Message—–
From: BILL JOHNSON [mailto:billjohnson6@sympatico.ca]
Sent: 01 April 2006 04:07
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Tired & OK Today

Callie, I guess I need to really try and spend some time reading more (all)
posts so as to get to know whats going on ,whos who and where we’er all from

and stuff.
What I gather so far is that most have come through life this far and have

decided that they have more to offer this world yet and are now attempting
to make a differance, beginning with whos in the mirror.
Callie So far , well its kinda hard to be humble (My BIGGEST Problem) well

you have sent a couple of replies to me and they are what has kinda lifted
me up, its weird kinda, but sometimes it just takes a gentle word or 2 or
even just knowing someones listening makes such a differance. At least with
myself, I have always been rather sensitive.
Now orI would (A dream) write a book, but for now Callie and my other Ibo

friends I want to share just a short testimonie about myself. I believe that

with the properly prepared words from the heart can and does make a
differance.
Well this is my 3rd and most difficult fight I have had or been through
(going through) with drugs.
I am 43years young next month, Married for 13 years-(ya she stuck it out the

crazy lady) and 2 boys are married off 23 & 25 uh ha, 2 grand kids. And 2
ever soo precious girls at home, 11 and 7.
I have had 2 x 6 years clean, 1st time a 28 day program Nov,1988, Then
alls really well, married with new baby  then1995 and Cocaine was a way to
make a quick buck -didn’t work —
1996 went to a Christian teatment center for 6 months ,supposed to be a
year, got out , relapsed a couple times and then stayed the path until I
started on percs for a little pain then as 2 and a half years went by I was
into Oxys by the hand full- and I am still dabbling as a in between when I
over drink my meth.

Soory I wasn’t going to write a story.- but had a service business that I am

back into. yet now I am much less busy but that is just a little bit of my
life,

MY GOAL IS TO SOMEHOW (I NEED A MIRACLE) TO GET MY LIFE BACK, TO HOPEFULLY
GET TO DO THE IBOGAINE AS SOON AS POSSIBLE.
mUCH TO DO FIRST, LIKE HAVE A PLAN, which is something that I am not great
at making,

What I need is Accountability, and unfortunately I cannot put my load on my
wife, she has carried me far enough and she needs to be able to just see
that her husband is moving forward and showing her something and not just
doing my GOOD Talk.

Well if anybody actually read this whole thing I’ll buy you Lunch. ?? maybe!

Blessings to you all

—-Original Message Follows—-
From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Tired
Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2006 13:59:27 EST
MIME-Version: 1.0
Received: from tomts3-srv.bellnexxia.net ([209.226.175.115]) by
bay0-pamc1-f4.bay0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Fri,
31 Mar 2006 12:45:42 -0800
Received: from toip4.bellnexxia.net ([209.226.175.87])          by
tomts3-srv.bellnexxia.net          (InterMail vM.5.01.06.13
201-253-122-130-113-20050324) with ESMTP          id
<20060331204644.NPYH19199.tomts3-srv.bellnexxia.net@toip4.bellnexxia.net>

for <billjohnson6@sympatico.ca>; Fri, 31 Mar 2006 15:46:44 -0500
Received: from tanelorn.mindvox.com (HELO mail.mindvox.com)
([64.124.179.118])  by toip4.bellnexxia.net with ESMTP; 31 Mar 2006 15:45:39

-0500
Received: (qmail 6731 invoked by uid 513); 31 Mar 2006 15:45:33 -0500
Received: (qmail 6725 invoked by uid 514); 31 Mar 2006 15:45:33 -0500
X-Message-Info: moY6YVwXQ47mVfv++ujVxtrMaJ7H9FHSrOq4HL6XqKU=
Mailing-List: contact ibogaine-help@mindvox.com; run by ezmlm
Precedence: bulk
X-No-Archive: yes
List-Post: <mailto:ibogaine@mindvox.com>
List-Help: <mailto:ibogaine-help@mindvox.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:ibogaine-unsubscribe@mindvox.com>
List-Subscribe: <mailto:ibogaine-subscribe@mindvox.com>
Delivered-To: mailing list ibogaine@mindvox.com
X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.1 required=4.0
X-Antivirus-MYDOMAIN-Mail-From: calliemimosa@aol.com via
tanelorn.mindvox.com
X-Antivirus-MYDOMAIN: 1.25-st-qms (Clear:RC:0(64.12.138.202):SA:0(0.1/4.0):.

Processed in 1.225692 secs Process 6710)
X-Mailer: 9.0 Security Edition for Windows sub 2340
X-Antivirus-MYDOMAIN-MOVED-X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-AOL-IP: 172.21.18.202
Return-Path: ibogaine-return-23206-billjohnson6=sympatico.ca@mindvox.com
X-OriginalArrivalTime: 31 Mar 2006 20:45:42.0561 (UTC)
FILETIME=[13B6B910:01C65504]

Hi Bill, Welcome to the list.
Can you please share more about yourself…how old you are, location, drugs
of choice, previous attempts at a clean way of life,etc., etc……..
Hope to hear more about you! So far, it sounds like you have found
something
that might change your life!!
Callie

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html
[%]

\]=———————————————————————=[/

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: “Billy J” <billjohnson6@sympatico.ca>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Biscuitboy & Mom
Date: April 4, 2006 at 9:14:40 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Ya now that is the coolest thing I have heard in a long time,
I just had a flash of a pic on my desktop of my Mom holding My hand, She was in the hospital at the time, and now she is gone,
But to read what your Mom just wrote about her 2 boys and then to hear you, speak more respect (in your tone) of Mom,& things,
Momma Anne you done good.

now Biscuit must have a meaning to it???

And Ibogaine Tell me more– what no Meth no need or?? can pass on Opiates, Great,
Tell about it when you can,
and Thanks  for being part of this Herd 9I am new, but I am almost comfortable.

Billy

—-Original Message Follows—-
From: biscuitboy714@aol.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Pot calling the Kettle Black?
Date: Tue, 04 Apr 2006 20:53:02 -0400
MIME-Version: 1.0
Received: from tomts3-srv.bellnexxia.net ([209.226.175.115]) by bay0-pamc1-f11.bay0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Tue, 4 Apr 2006 17:53:21 -0700
Received: from toip7.bellnexxia.net ([209.226.175.175])          by tomts3-srv.bellnexxia.net          (InterMail vM.5.01.06.13 201-253-122-130-113-20050324) with ESMTP          id <20060405005424.KHIY19199.tomts3-srv.bellnexxia.net@toip7.bellnexxia.net>          for <billjohnson6@sympatico.ca>; Tue, 4 Apr 2006 20:54:24 -0400
Received: from tanelorn.mindvox.com (HELO mail.mindvox.com) ([64.124.179.118])  by toip7.bellnexxia.net with ESMTP; 04 Apr 2006 20:53:17 -0400
Received: (qmail 5334 invoked by uid 513); 4 Apr 2006 20:53:15 -0400
Received: (qmail 5320 invoked by uid 514); 4 Apr 2006 20:53:14 -0400
X-Message-Info: moY6YVwXQ473QIVaGTy0vdUQkoljlySP4j7U4Mvj+hk=
Mailing-List: contact ibogaine-help@mindvox.com; run by ezmlm
Precedence: bulk
X-No-Archive: yes
List-Post: <mailto:ibogaine@mindvox.com>
List-Help: <mailto:ibogaine-help@mindvox.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:ibogaine-unsubscribe@mindvox.com>
List-Subscribe: <mailto:ibogaine-subscribe@mindvox.com>
Delivered-To: mailing list ibogaine@mindvox.com
X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.5 required=4.0
X-Antivirus-MYDOMAIN-Mail-From: biscuitboy714@aol.com via tanelorn.mindvox.com
X-Antivirus-MYDOMAIN: 1.25-st-qms (Clear:RC:0(205.188.144.207):SA:0(-1.5/4.0):. Processed in 8.562257 secs Process 5218)
References: <BAY105-F166264E69C25819F00BD11DED40@phx.gbl>
X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI
X-MB-Message-Type: User
X-Mailer: AOL WebMail 17114
X-AOL-IP: 64.12.136.77
X-Antivirus-MYDOMAIN-MOVED-X-Spam-Flag: NO
Return-Path: ibogaine-return-23339-billjohnson6=sympatico.ca@mindvox.com
X-OriginalArrivalTime: 05 Apr 2006 00:53:21.0428 (UTC) FILETIME=[55F0E540:01C6584B]

Alan, dood, chill out willya? Let’s see……………..uh……………..I am enjoying the debate with Nick,………..my mom is quick to compliment intellegence, I agree, No I don’t agree that only emotionally repressed people get high off of opiates, actually I didn’t catch that, everybody gets high off of opiates, it never fails if you do enough. uh……………..I’ve done every opiate I ever came across until I did Ibogaine. I seem to be able to pass on them now. I’m still laughing at the thought of my mother working up a shot of brown. OK so I answered your question. Let me make a point. LIGHTEN UP BEAVIS……..dude I appreciate yoour passion, I was the same way when I first found the list. I was not a happy camper. Sticking around here I have lost my mind and now I try and find humor in the little things in life. It gets me by. Please by no means take me serious. I have fried my brain with Ibogaine. Hell that rymes “fried my brain with Ibogaine…………somebody finish the line. I’ll be serious tomorrow, I want to laugh today. “when the spoon is hot and the needle’s shot……..drift away” Alice in Chains Randy

—–Original Message—–
From: Alan Hehe <a.h.veil68@hotmail.com>
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Sun, 02 Apr 2006 12:31:45 -0400
Subject: [Ibogaine] Pot calling the Kettle Black?

Hey…uh, Biscuit Boy,

What’s the matter? Do you NOT like my debate with Nick, or do you just not like the fact that Ann paid me a compliment? Do you agree with Nick’s idea that only emotionally repressed individuals receive any sort of high from opiates? If you’ve got something to say, why not come out and say it? Have you never done opiates? Or any drugs? What gives you the right to judge Ann? Personally I don’t care if her comment was influened by a whole gram of Mexican brown! Better a nice compliment from someone high, than a nasty one from someone sober! Now, if I’ve misconstrued your intent, I apologize, but I would appreciate a logical explanation rather than a low-blow insinuation.

——–

From:  biscuitboy714@aol.com
Reply-To:  ibogaine@mindvox.com
To:  ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject:  Re: [Ibogaine] Opiate effects
Date:  Sun, 02 Apr 2006 11:05:09 -0400
>Yea Ann, tell us how much heroin you shot last night. He He I
>couldn’t help it. I love you Mamma           Randy
>
>—–Original Message—–
>From: Alan Hehe <a.h.veil68@hotmail.com>
>To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
>Sent: Sat, 01 Apr 2006 11:15:03 -0500
>Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Opiate effects
>
>     Hey Ann,
>
>     Thank you for the compliment…Somebody’s got to try to counter
>his crazy ideas with some sense. Feel free to write me anytime..I
>really enjoy talking to people on this list and hearing their
>stories…Oh, don’t tell anyone, but I studied semantics and debate
>in high school! Just kidding…about the hush hush, as anyone will
>be able to read this. Oh, heck–LOL! I’m 37, and High school is but
>a distant, mainly unplesant experience…except when I would catch
>my English teacher making grammatical or syntactical mistakes,
>before they moved me into an A.P. college-level class…And no, I’m
>not conceited, either..but I do enjoy debate! Everyone has certain
>qualities at which they excel, and others at which they are
>deficient. I make up for my skill in English by being a retard in
>math! Plus, I couldn’t be that smart or I wouldn’t be here, looking
>for a way out of the hell-hole I dug for myself….and despite
>having a really shitty childhood, I take complete responsibility for
>my current position in
>life……………………………….Wishing you the best in
>all…….Alan.
>
>
>
>  ——–
>From: “Ann B. Mullikin” <think@francomm.com>
>Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
>To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
>Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Opiate effects
>Date: Sat, 1 Apr 2006 10:04:20 -0500
>
>  No, I am not Nick but…..
>
>  Bravo, Alan.  I surely do appreciate the way you use your brain –
>TO THINK AND TO REASON.  Its good stuff.  Keep on.
>
>ann
>think@francomm.com
>
>  —– Original Message —–
>From: Alan Hehe
>To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
>Sent: Friday, March 31, 2006 4:49 PM
>Subject: [Ibogaine] Opiate effects
>
>
>    Hey Nick,
>
>     I wanted to say that, although I was basically right, I believe
>(and according to the research I’ve done) about the reason opiates
>cause pleasure, I wasn’t entirely correct about the natural opiates
>(dopamine,etc) having an effect on mood. They do have an affect on
>mood..but then again, so does euphoria..in fact, it could be said to
>be a mood unto itself. Here’s a little medical info for: Opiates
>(heroin, morphine, etc.)
>
>  The human body naturally produces its own opiate-like substances
>and uses them as neurotransmitters. These substances include
>endorphins, enkephalins, and dynorphin, often collectively known as
>endogenous opioids. Endogenous opioids modulate our reactions to
>painful stimuli. They also regulate vital functions such as hunger
>and thirst and are involved in mood control, immune response, and
>other processes.
>
>The reason that opiates such as heroin and morphine affect us so
>powerfully is that these exogenous substances bind to the same
>receptors as our endogenous opioids. There are three kinds of
>receptors widely distributed throughout the brain: mu, delta, and
>kappa receptors.
>
>These receptors, through second messengers, influence the likelihood
>that ion channels will open, which in certain cases reduces the
>excitability of neurons. This reduced excitability is the likely
>source of the euphoric effect of opiates and appears to be mediated
>by the mu and delta receptors.
>
>This euphoric effect also appears to involve another mechanism in
>which the GABA-inhibitory interneurons of the ventral tegmental area
>come into play. By attaching to their mu receptors, exogenous
>opioids reduce the amount of GABA released (see animation).
>Normally, GABA reduces the amount of dopamine released in the
>nucleus accumbens. By inhibiting this inhibitor, the opiates
>ultimately increase the amount of dopamine produced and the amount
>of pleasure felt.
>
>Chronic consumption of opiates inhibits the production of cAMP, but
>this inhibition is offset in the long run by other cAMP production
>mechanisms. When no opiates are available, this increased cAMP
>production capacity comes to the fore and results in neural
>hyperactivity and the sensation of craving the drug.
>
>
>
>
>——–
>  Make FREE PC-to-PC calls with MSN Messenger. Get it now!
>/]=———————————————————————
=
>[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands:
>http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
>\]=———————————————————————
=
>[/
>
>
>——–
>  Find just what you’re after with the new, more precise MSN Search
>- try it now!
>/]=———————————————————————
=
>[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands:
>http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
>\]=———————————————————————
=
>[/
>
>
>
>
>/]=———————————————————————
=[\
>[%] Ibogaine List Commands:
>http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
>
>\]=———————————————————————
=[/
>
>

——–
Be one of the first to try Windows Live Mail /]=———————————————————————=
[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%] \]=———————————————————————=
[/

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: Edfriedrichs@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Stop getting trapped:
Date: April 4, 2006 at 8:54:43 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

When I challenge my own theories, I ask myself “Are there “waking” ways of replacing REM-Sleep?”  My answer has to do with extremely “creative” past times.  You certainly sound “CREATIVE!”  Maybe that’s why you’re getting by??????        Are you aware of when in your life you stopping sleeping normally…..what reason did you give to yourself for that?  Two to three hours of Slow-Wave-Stage Sleep is all that is necessary, along with 1-2 hours of REM.  The rest of our usual eight hours is spent in shallow Stages I and II, with us not understanding what those stages do.  Our brains differ, probably genetically, in re to sleep, but we know very little about that.  Maybe you’re an extreme exception, so I wouldn’t expect your clients to fall into your catagory.  Nevertheless, it’s all very interesting.  Dr. Ed

From: biscuitboy714@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Pot calling the Kettle Black?
Date: April 4, 2006 at 8:53:02 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Alan, dood, chill out willya? Let’s see……………..uh……………..I am enjoying the debate with Nick,………..my mom is quick to compliment intellegence, I agree, No I don’t agree that only emotionally repressed people get high off of opiates, actually I didn’t catch that, everybody gets high off of opiates, it never fails if you do enough. uh……………..I’ve done every opiate I ever came across until I did Ibogaine. I seem to be able to pass on them now. I’m still laughing at the thought of my mother working up a shot of brown. OK so I answered your question. Let me make a point. LIGHTEN UP BEAVIS……..dude I appreciate yoour passion, I was the same way when I first found the list. I was not a happy camper. Sticking around here I have lost my mind and now I try and find humor in the little things in life. It gets me by. Please by no means take me serious. I have fried my brain with Ibogaine. Hell that rymes “fried my brain with Ibogaine…………somebody finish the line. I’ll be serious tomorrow, I want to laugh today. “when the spoon is hot and the needle’s shot……..drift away” Alice in Chains Randy

—–Original Message—–
From: Alan Hehe <a.h.veil68@hotmail.com>
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Sun, 02 Apr 2006 12:31:45 -0400
Subject: [Ibogaine] Pot calling the Kettle Black?

Hey…uh, Biscuit Boy,

What’s the matter? Do you NOT like my debate with Nick, or do you just not like the fact that Ann paid me a compliment? Do you agree with Nick’s idea that only emotionally repressed individuals receive any sort of high from opiates? If you’ve got something to say, why not come out and say it? Have you never done opiates? Or any drugs? What gives you the right to judge Ann? Personally I don’t care if her comment was influened by a whole gram of Mexican brown! Better a nice compliment from someone high, than a nasty one from someone sober! Now, if I’ve misconstrued your intent, I apologize, but I would appreciate a logical explanation rather than a low-blow insinuation.

——–

From:  biscuitboy714@aol.com
Reply-To:  ibogaine@mindvox.com
To:  ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject:  Re: [Ibogaine] Opiate effects
Date:  Sun, 02 Apr 2006 11:05:09 -0400
>Yea Ann, tell us how much heroin you shot last night. He He I
>couldn’t help it. I love you Mamma           Randy
>
>—–Original Message—–
>From: Alan Hehe <a.h.veil68@hotmail.com>
>To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
>Sent: Sat, 01 Apr 2006 11:15:03 -0500
>Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Opiate effects
>
>     Hey Ann,
>
>     Thank you for the compliment…Somebody’s got to try to counter
>his crazy ideas with some sense. Feel free to write me anytime..I
>really enjoy talking to people on this list and hearing their
>stories…Oh, don’t tell anyone, but I studied semantics and debate
>in high school! Just kidding…about the hush hush, as anyone will
>be able to read this. Oh, heck–LOL! I’m 37, and High school is but
>a distant, mainly unplesant experience…except when I would catch
>my English teacher making grammatical or syntactical mistakes,
>before they moved me into an A.P. college-level class…And no, I’m
>not conceited, either..but I do enjoy debate! Everyone has certain
>qualities at which they excel, and others at which they are
>deficient. I make up for my skill in English by being a retard in
>math! Plus, I couldn’t be that smart or I wouldn’t be here, looking
>for a way out of the hell-hole I dug for myself….and despite
>having a really shitty childhood, I take complete responsibility for
>my current position in
>life……………………………….Wishing you the best in
>all…….Alan.
>
>
>
>  ——–
>From: “Ann B. Mullikin” <think@francomm.com>
>Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
>To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
>Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Opiate effects
>Date: Sat, 1 Apr 2006 10:04:20 -0500
>
>  No, I am not Nick but…..
>
>  Bravo, Alan.  I surely do appreciate the way you use your brain –
>TO THINK AND TO REASON.  Its good stuff.  Keep on.
>
>ann
>think@francomm.com
>
>  —– Original Message —–
>From: Alan Hehe
>To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
>Sent: Friday, March 31, 2006 4:49 PM
>Subject: [Ibogaine] Opiate effects
>
>
>    Hey Nick,
>
>     I wanted to say that, although I was basically right, I believe
>(and according to the research I’ve done) about the reason opiates
>cause pleasure, I wasn’t entirely correct about the natural opiates
>(dopamine,etc) having an effect on mood. They do have an affect on
>mood..but then again, so does euphoria..in fact, it could be said to
>be a mood unto itself. Here’s a little medical info for: Opiates
>(heroin, morphine, etc.)
>
>  The human body naturally produces its own opiate-like substances
>and uses them as neurotransmitters. These substances include
>endorphins, enkephalins, and dynorphin, often collectively known as
>endogenous opioids. Endogenous opioids modulate our reactions to
>painful stimuli. They also regulate vital functions such as hunger
>and thirst and are involved in mood control, immune response, and
>other processes.
>
>The reason that opiates such as heroin and morphine affect us so
>powerfully is that these exogenous substances bind to the same
>receptors as our endogenous opioids. There are three kinds of
>receptors widely distributed throughout the brain: mu, delta, and
>kappa receptors.
>
>These receptors, through second messengers, influence the likelihood
>that ion channels will open, which in certain cases reduces the
>excitability of neurons. This reduced excitability is the likely
>source of the euphoric effect of opiates and appears to be mediated
>by the mu and delta receptors.
>
>This euphoric effect also appears to involve another mechanism in
>which the GABA-inhibitory interneurons of the ventral tegmental area
>come into play. By attaching to their mu receptors, exogenous
>opioids reduce the amount of GABA released (see animation).
>Normally, GABA reduces the amount of dopamine released in the
>nucleus accumbens. By inhibiting this inhibitor, the opiates
>ultimately increase the amount of dopamine produced and the amount
>of pleasure felt.
>
>Chronic consumption of opiates inhibits the production of cAMP, but
>this inhibition is offset in the long run by other cAMP production
>mechanisms. When no opiates are available, this increased cAMP
>production capacity comes to the fore and results in neural
>hyperactivity and the sensation of craving the drug.
>
>
>
>
>——–
>  Make FREE PC-to-PC calls with MSN Messenger. Get it now!
>/]=———————————————————————
=
>[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands:
>http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
>\]=———————————————————————
=
>[/
>
>
>——–
>  Find just what you’re after with the new, more precise MSN Search
>- try it now!
>/]=———————————————————————
=
>[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands:
>http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
>\]=———————————————————————
=
>[/
>
>
>
>
>/]=———————————————————————
=[\
>[%] Ibogaine List Commands:
>http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
>
>\]=———————————————————————
=[/
>
>

——–
Be one of the first to try Windows Live Mail /]=———————————————————————=
[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%] \]=———————————————————————=
[/

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: “Ann B. Mullikin” <think@francomm.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Pot calling the Kettle Black?
Date: April 4, 2006 at 8:02:35 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi all;  Momma Ann here.  My notes are bouncing back to me so I must try again.

Randy – Biscuit Boy – really is my middle son.  I have two others, one older and one younger.  Alan, I happened to enjoy your speaking and
reasoning style.  In philosophy it is called “Elegant”.  With a few eloquent words one is able to speak very clearly.  My oldest son and I took quite a few
philosophy classes in college together.  It was a heck of a lot of fun.  One of the classes we took together was called, “Philosophy of Science”.
It was here that I was introduced to the “Elegant” style of speech.  I also took a debating class in the same department.  Same style.  Alan,
were you a debator at some point in your life?  I wasn’t trying to start an argument of any kind, just responding to something I enjoy.  All of this
nonsense is based on my opinions only.  Viva la difference of opinions…they are what makes a horse race, they say.

Randy and I have a lot of fun together also.   He was just having fun when he wrote what we wrote.  I meant no disrespect towards anyone OK?

Love to all

ann – aka Momma
think@francomm.com
—– Original Message —–
From: Alan Hehe
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Sunday, April 02, 2006 12:31 PM
Subject: [Ibogaine] Pot calling the Kettle Black?

Hey…uh, Biscuit Boy,
What’s the matter? Do you NOT like my debate with Nick, or do you just not like the fact that Ann paid me a compliment? Do you agree with Nick’s idea that only emotionally repressed individuals receive any sort of high from opiates? If you’ve got something to say, why not come out and say it? Have you never done opiates? Or any drugs? What gives you the right to judge Ann? Personally I don’t care if her comment was influened by a whole gram of Mexican brown! Better a nice compliment from someone high, than a nasty one from someone sober! Now, if I’ve misconstrued your intent, I apologize, but I would appreciate a logical explanation rather than a low-blow insinuation.

From:  biscuitboy714@aol.com
Reply-To:  ibogaine@mindvox.com
To:  ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject:  Re: [Ibogaine] Opiate effects
Date:  Sun, 02 Apr 2006 11:05:09 -0400
>Yea Ann, tell us how much heroin you shot last night. He He I
>couldn’t help it. I love you Mamma           Randy
>
>—–Original Message—–
>From: Alan Hehe <a.h.veil68@hotmail.com>
>To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
>Sent: Sat, 01 Apr 2006 11:15:03 -0500
>Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Opiate effects
>
>     Hey Ann,
>
>     Thank you for the compliment…Somebody’s got to try to counter
>his crazy ideas with some sense. Feel free to write me anytime..I
>really enjoy talking to people on this list and hearing their
>stories…Oh, don’t tell anyone, but I studied semantics and debate
>in high school! Just kidding…about the hush hush, as anyone will
>be able to read this. Oh, heck–LOL! I’m 37, and High school is but
>a distant, mainly unplesant experience…except when I would catch
>my English teacher making grammatical or syntactical mistakes,
>before they moved me into an A.P. college-level class…And no, I’m
>not conceited, either..but I do enjoy debate! Everyone has certain
>qualities at which they excel, and others at which they are
>deficient. I make up for my skill in English by being a retard in
>math! Plus, I couldn’t be that smart or I wouldn’t be here, looking
>for a way out of the hell-hole I dug for myself….and despite
>having a really shitty childhood, I take complete responsibility for
>my current position in
>life……………………………….Wishing you the best in
>all…….Alan.
>
>
>
>  ——–
>From: “Ann B. Mullikin” <think@francomm.com>
>Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
>To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
>Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Opiate effects
>Date: Sat, 1 Apr 2006 10:04:20 -0500
>
>  No, I am not Nick but…..
>
>  Bravo, Alan.  I surely do appreciate the way you use your brain –
>TO THINK AND TO REASON.  Its good stuff.  Keep on.
>
>ann
>think@francomm.com
>
>  —– Original Message —–
>From: Alan Hehe
>To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
>Sent: Friday, March 31, 2006 4:49 PM
>Subject: [Ibogaine] Opiate effects
>
>
>    Hey Nick,
>
>     I wanted to say that, although I was basically right, I believe
>(and according to the research I’ve done) about the reason opiates
>cause pleasure, I wasn’t entirely correct about the natural opiates
>(dopamine,etc) having an effect on mood. They do have an affect on
>mood..but then again, so does euphoria..in fact, it could be said to
>be a mood unto itself. Here’s a little medical info for: Opiates
>(heroin, morphine, etc.)
>
>  The human body naturally produces its own opiate-like substances
>and uses them as neurotransmitters. These substances include
>endorphins, enkephalins, and dynorphin, often collectively known as
>endogenous opioids. Endogenous opioids modulate our reactions to
>painful stimuli. They also regulate vital functions such as hunger
>and thirst and are involved in mood control, immune response, and
>other processes.
>
>The reason that opiates such as heroin and morphine affect us so
>powerfully is that these exogenous substances bind to the same
>receptors as our endogenous opioids. There are three kinds of
>receptors widely distributed throughout the brain: mu, delta, and
>kappa receptors.
>
>These receptors, through second messengers, influence the likelihood
>that ion channels will open, which in certain cases reduces the
>excitability of neurons. This reduced excitability is the likely
>source of the euphoric effect of opiates and appears to be mediated
>by the mu and delta receptors.
>
>This euphoric effect also appears to involve another mechanism in
>which the GABA-inhibitory interneurons of the ventral tegmental area
>come into play. By attaching to their mu receptors, exogenous
>opioids reduce the amount of GABA released (see animation).
>Normally, GABA reduces the amount of dopamine released in the
>nucleus accumbens. By inhibiting this inhibitor, the opiates
>ultimately increase the amount of dopamine produced and the amount
>of pleasure felt.
>
>Chronic consumption of opiates inhibits the production of cAMP, but
>this inhibition is offset in the long run by other cAMP production
>mechanisms. When no opiates are available, this increased cAMP
>production capacity comes to the fore and results in neural
>hyperactivity and the sensation of craving the drug.
>
>
>
>
>——–
>  Make FREE PC-to-PC calls with MSN Messenger. Get it now!
>/]=———————————————————————=
>[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands:
>http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
>\]=———————————————————————=
>[/
>
>
>——–
>  Find just what you’re after with the new, more precise MSN Search
>- try it now!
>/]=———————————————————————=
>[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands:
>http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
>\]=———————————————————————=
>[/
>
>
>
>
>/]=———————————————————————=[\
>[%] Ibogaine List Commands:
>http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
>
>\]=———————————————————————=[/
>
>

Be one of the first to try Windows Live Mail /]=———————————————————————=[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%] \]=———————————————————————=[/

From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] New to the list
Date: April 4, 2006 at 7:30:34 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Way to go Coleen! So happy to hear about another addict happy and peaceful after Ibogaine!
Please follow up with some kind of after-care plan. Not trying to be bossy, just concerned!
Please keep us posted as to how things are honestly going!
Peace and a bear hug! Callie

From: “Billy J” <billjohnson6@sympatico.ca>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Thanks So Much Buying Lunch
Date: April 4, 2006 at 7:25:05 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Thanks Jason, and the 2 or 3 other wonderful people her who read my little mm Qualification for for being here.
Even Alan is Ok.
It is truelly good to have a place to talk(even when you are not intelectually as intelligent as ??)

Thanks Thanks Thanks, and Don’t make me regret this butt – but thanks.

Someone (I think Nick) wrote that in their experiance with addicts He/She has observed the high level of sensitivity amogst a lot of Addicts. I guess I am one of them, and you have also probably observed that another respose is anger towards the hurtful person, rather than or instead of Crying!??

Oh well I may be Soft, but I can still give., as this List Does.
Gotta go for a bit , shall return.
Billy

—-Original Message Follows—-
From: “Jasen Chamoun” <jasenhappy@optusnet.com.au>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Tired & OK Today
Date: Sun, 2 Apr 2006 12:59:43 +1000
MIME-Version: 1.0
Received: from tomts19-srv.bellnexxia.net ([209.226.175.73]) by bay0-pamc1-f4.bay0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Tue, 4 Apr 2006 01:08:21 -0700
Received: from toip5.bellnexxia.net ([209.226.175.88])          by tomts19-srv.bellnexxia.net          (InterMail vM.5.01.06.13 201-253-122-130-113-20050324) with ESMTP          id <20060404080821.GFLE13097.tomts19-srv.bellnexxia.net@toip5.bellnexxia.net>          for <billjohnson6@sympatico.ca>; Tue, 4 Apr 2006 04:08:21 -0400
Received: from tanelorn.mindvox.com (HELO mail.mindvox.com) ([64.124.179.118])  by toip5.bellnexxia.net with ESMTP; 04 Apr 2006 04:08:17 -0400
Received: (qmail 24321 invoked by uid 513); 4 Apr 2006 04:00:12 -0400
Received: (qmail 24311 invoked by uid 514); 4 Apr 2006 04:00:12 -0400
X-Message-Info: JGTYoYF78jEHjJx36Oi8+Z3TmmkSEdPtfpLB7P/ybN8=
Mailing-List: contact ibogaine-help@mindvox.com; run by ezmlm
Precedence: bulk
X-No-Archive: yes
List-Post: <mailto:ibogaine@mindvox.com>
List-Help: <mailto:ibogaine-help@mindvox.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:ibogaine-unsubscribe@mindvox.com>
List-Subscribe: <mailto:ibogaine-subscribe@mindvox.com>
Delivered-To: mailing list ibogaine@mindvox.com
X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.6 required=4.0
X-Antivirus-MYDOMAIN-Mail-From: jasenhappy@optusnet.com.au via tanelorn.mindvox.com
X-Antivirus-MYDOMAIN: 1.25-st-qms (Clear:RC:0(211.29.132.93):SA:0(-2.6/4.0):. Processed in 7.945964 secs Process 24216)
References: <BAY16-F243B989B81E1CAA3ADC432FDD70@phx.gbl>
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180
X-Antivirus: avast! (VPS 0613-2, 31-03-2006), Outbound message
X-Antivirus-Status: Clean
Return-Path: ibogaine-return-23306-billjohnson6=sympatico.ca@mindvox.com
X-OriginalArrivalTime: 04 Apr 2006 08:08:21.0944 (UTC) FILETIME=[F0A5D380:01C657BE]

Hello Bill,

My name is Jasen I am from Australia,..you owe me lunch.

Again, welcome and thankyou for the story. You are in such
a good place here.

love, Jasen
—– Original Message —– From: “BILL JOHNSON” <billjohnson6@sympatico.ca>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Saturday, April 01, 2006 12:07 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Tired & OK Today

Callie, I guess I need to really try and spend some time reading more (all) posts so as to get to know whats going on ,whos who and where we’er all from and stuff.
What I gather so far is that most have come through life this far and have decided that they have more to offer this world yet and are now attempting to make a differance, beginning with whos in the mirror.
Callie So far , well its kinda hard to be humble (My BIGGEST Problem) well you have sent a couple of replies to me and they are what has kinda lifted me up, its weird kinda, but sometimes it just takes a gentle word or 2 or even just knowing someones listening makes such a differance. At least with myself, I have always been rather sensitive.
Now I would (A dream) write a book, but for now Callie and my other Ibo friends I want to share just a short testimonie about myself. I believe that with the properly prepared words from the heart can and does make a differance.
Well this is my 3rd and most difficult fight I have had or been through (going through) with drugs.
I am 43years young next month, Married for 13 years-(ya she stuck it out the crazy lady) and 2 boys are married off 23 & 25 uh ha, 2 grand kids. And 2 ever soo precious girls at home, 11 and 7.
I have had 2 x 6 years clean, 1st time a 28 day program Nov,1988, Then alls really well, married with new baby  then1995 and Cocaine was a way to make a quick buck -didn’t work —
1996 went to a Christian teatment center for 6 months ,supposed to be a year, got out , relapsed a couple times and then stayed the path until I started on percs for a little pain then as 2 and a half years went by I was into Oxys by the hand full- and I am still dabbling as a in between when I over drink my meth.

Soory I wasn’t going to write a story.- but had a service business that I am back into. yet now I am much less busy but that is just a little bit of my life,

MY GOAL IS TO SOMEHOW (I NEED A MIRACLE) TO GET MY LIFE BACK, TO HOPEFULLY GET TO DO THE IBOGAINE AS SOON AS POSSIBLE.
mUCH TO DO FIRST, LIKE HAVE A PLAN, which is something that I am not great at making,

What I need is Accountability, and unfortunately I cannot put my load on my wife, she has carried me far enough and she needs to be able to just see that her husband is moving forward and showing her something and not just doing my GOOD Talk.

Well if anybody actually read this whole thing I’ll buy you Lunch. ?? maybe!

Blessings to you all

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: “Billy J” <billjohnson6@sympatico.ca>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Muslim and Islam
Date: April 4, 2006 at 6:53:30 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I have never heard the full story about muhammad, All I knew was that he was not very nice and that if anyone ever spoke bad about him or Rather spoke of the factual(provable) Truths about Him- You would have a bounty on your head and It would be an honor for another Muslim to Kill you.

Thats what I heard, and just recently those cartoons about Him- Well is that Author still Alive?
SCARY! and The Cats In the Cradle

Well How bout those Leafs,
Looks like they will fall early this season.
Billy

—-Original Message Follows—-
From: “Sara Glatt” <sara119@xs4all.nl>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] OT from methadone list – Herman Joseph on stigma           and methadone
Date: Tue, 4 Apr 2006 18:54:26 +0200 (CEST)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Received: from tomts3-srv.bellnexxia.net ([209.226.175.115]) by bay0-pamc1-f3.bay0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Tue, 4 Apr 2006 09:55:17 -0700
Received: from toip6.bellnexxia.net ([209.226.175.174])          by tomts3-srv.bellnexxia.net          (InterMail vM.5.01.06.13 201-253-122-130-113-20050324) with ESMTP          id <20060404165620.CMAH19199.tomts3-srv.bellnexxia.net@toip6.bellnexxia.net>          for <billjohnson6@sympatico.ca>; Tue, 4 Apr 2006 12:56:20 -0400
Received: from tanelorn.mindvox.com (HELO mail.mindvox.com) ([64.124.179.118])  by toip6.bellnexxia.net with ESMTP; 04 Apr 2006 12:55:11 -0400
Received: (qmail 22657 invoked by uid 513); 4 Apr 2006 12:55:10 -0400
Received: (qmail 22626 invoked by uid 514); 4 Apr 2006 12:55:09 -0400
X-Message-Info: moY6YVwXQ45fcDA8x/Dnaa0jZLW344Rn1x2d9JxdMEQ=
Mailing-List: contact ibogaine-help@mindvox.com; run by ezmlm
Precedence: bulk
X-No-Archive: yes
List-Post: <mailto:ibogaine@mindvox.com>
List-Help: <mailto:ibogaine-help@mindvox.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:ibogaine-unsubscribe@mindvox.com>
List-Subscribe: <mailto:ibogaine-subscribe@mindvox.com>
Delivered-To: mailing list ibogaine@mindvox.com
X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.3 required=4.0
X-Antivirus-MYDOMAIN-Mail-From: sara119@xs4all.nl via tanelorn.mindvox.com
X-Antivirus-MYDOMAIN: 1.25-st-qms (Clear:RC:0(194.109.24.37):SA:0(-2.3/4.0):. Processed in 6.616688 secs Process 22503)
References: <20060403120213.6A05B2ECAD@smtp02.isdsl.net>
User-Agent: SquirrelMail/1.4.5
X-Virus-Scanned: by XS4ALL Virus Scanner
Return-Path: ibogaine-return-23330-billjohnson6=sympatico.ca@mindvox.com
X-OriginalArrivalTime: 04 Apr 2006 16:55:17.0357 (UTC) FILETIME=[8CE701D0:01C65808]

>not totally, I have started only it is not very exciting reading and so I
stoped.but I wonder what that nine years old girl would feel like if
someone
have told her that it was her responsiblity for everything that happend to
her, and that millions of people thinks “It ok , it’s what Allah wants”.

if you are brain washed how can you become responsible for it?

Sara

Sara have you read the Koran/?
> Guy
> —–Original Message—–
> From: Sara Glatt [mailto:sara119@xs4all.nl]
> Sent: 02 April 2006 16:29
> To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
> Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] OT from methadone list – Herman Joseph on stigma
> and
> methadone
>
> “I am 100% responsible for everything that happens to me.” Nick Wrote,
>
>
> I think that people in a confused mind setting can not be responsible for
> everything that happens to them.
>
> How the above is valid in the below info., nine years old girl,huh, and
> the rest. well they are not drug addicts but religion is an opiate of the
> people, when there is no religion then drug use become a ritual and a
> religion.
>
> These are just some of the facts that Muslims have been keeping secret,
> but they are
> enough to make any reasonable person doubt the validity of Islam. Muhammad
> was
> guilty of countless murders and of torturing his victims. He robbed
> caravans and
> participated in the slave-trade. His persecution of the Jews bordered on
> genocide.
> His polygamy went beyond that which even his own revelations permitted
> (though he
> did receive a revelation saying that this was okay for him). One of his
> wives was a
> nine-year-old girl, whose earliest duties in Muhammad’s house included the
> constant
> task of washing the semen stains off his clothes. At times he believed he
> was
> demon-possessed or under the effect of magic. He was known to be suicidal.
> He
> admittedly received a message from Satan and delivered it to the people as
> if it
> were from God. He declared that women have half the intellectual ability
> that men
> have, that it is okay for men to beat their wives, that most of the
> inhabitants of
> hell are women, and that, even if a woman somehow makes it to heaven, her
> eternity
> will consist of standing in a corner, waiting for men to sexually enjoy
> her.[21]
>
> These details about Muhammad raise a very important question: What does a
> prophet
> have to do before Muslims will be willing to question whether he is truly
> the
> greatest moral example in history? Normally, when we say that someone is a
> moral
> person, we mean that he doesn’t commit acts such as robbery and murder.
> Yet Muhammad
> did all these things and much more. It appears, then, that Muslims are
> using the
> term “moral” in a very unique way. In this uniquely Muslim sense of the
> term, the
> word “moral” is defined as “whatever Muhammad does.” Thus, if Muhammad
> were to chop
> off the heads of hundreds of people (which he did), this act would still
> be defined
> as a moral act, since Muhammad did it, and anything Muhammad does is, by
> definition,
> moral.
>
> But this raises another important question. If God’s greatest prophet is
> free to
> take part in murder, robbery, genocide, and slave-trading, can we really
> point a
> finger at people like Osama bin Laden and Saddam Hussein and say that they
> are evil?
> They killed many innocents, but so did Muhammad. Saddam tortured countless
> people,
> but so did Muhammad. In fact, one could make a case that Osama bin Laden
> is morally
> superior to Muhammad, for, while bin Laden killed thousands of people, he
> didn’t
> sell their wives and children into slavery, or have sex with a little
> girl, or marry
> more than a dozen women.
>
> The truth about Muhammad has been one of the world’s best-kept secrets.
> For
> centuries, it has been virtually impossible to raise objections about the
> character
> of Muhammad in Muslim countries, for anyone who raised such objections
> would
> (following the example set by Muhammad himself) immediately be killed.
> Outside the
> Muslim world, there has been little interest in Islam, and those who have
> been
> interested have typically relied on modern Muslim reports about Muhammad,
> such as
> the above passage from Mawdudi. But things have changed. Now many people
> are
> interested in Islam, and Muslims aren’t able to silence everyone.
> Moreover, with the
> advent of the Internet, it is now impossible to keep Muhammad’s life a
> secret. The
> facts about the founder of Islam are spreading very rapidly, and Muslims
> are
> frantically scurrying to defend their faith. But the information
> superhighway is
> paving over the ignorance that has for centuries been the stronghold of
> Islamic
> dogma. In the end, Islam will fall, for the entire structure is built upon
> the
> belief that Muhammad was the greatest moral example in history, and this
> belief is
> demonstrably false.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> /]=———————————————————————=[\
>  [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html
> [%]
>
> \]=———————————————————————=[/
>
>
>
>
>   /]=———————————————————————=[\
>  [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html
> [%]
>   \]=———————————————————————=[/
>
>
>

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: “Billy J” <billjohnson6@sympatico.ca>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Wow!
Date: April 4, 2006 at 5:58:59 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

O.K. Al,
I almost feel like responding to the filth that just came out of your mind, I hope you keep space for the good things in Life, Like the freedom of conversation.

Hope all is well with You!
billy Boy, From Canada
And yes in the USA you would be happy to know you can get rid of your rug rats up til 9 months.
To bad your Mom Didn’t Come from the USA

—-Original Message Follows—-
From: “Alan Hehe” <a.h.veil68@hotmail.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Whats a Republican?
Date: Tue, 04 Apr 2006 03:00:11 -0400
MIME-Version: 1.0
Received: from tomts19-srv.bellnexxia.net ([209.226.175.73]) by bay0-pamc1-f3.bay0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Tue, 4 Apr 2006 00:03:31 -0700
Received: from toip1.bellnexxia.net ([209.226.175.84])          by tomts19-srv.bellnexxia.net          (InterMail vM.5.01.06.13 201-253-122-130-113-20050324) with ESMTP          id <20060404070330.CIZT13097.tomts19-srv.bellnexxia.net@toip1.bellnexxia.net>          for <billjohnson6@sympatico.ca>; Tue, 4 Apr 2006 03:03:30 -0400
Received: from tanelorn.mindvox.com (HELO mail.mindvox.com) ([64.124.179.118])  by toip1.bellnexxia.net with ESMTP; 04 Apr 2006 03:02:36 -0400
Received: (qmail 8891 invoked by uid 513); 4 Apr 2006 03:02:10 -0400
Received: (qmail 8879 invoked by uid 514); 4 Apr 2006 03:02:09 -0400
X-Message-Info: 6sSXyD95QpXtM7RyNoaw3czHhleN3X2Hh8fFEGNW7Ig=
Mailing-List: contact ibogaine-help@mindvox.com; run by ezmlm
Precedence: bulk
X-No-Archive: yes
List-Post: <mailto:ibogaine@mindvox.com>
List-Help: <mailto:ibogaine-help@mindvox.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:ibogaine-unsubscribe@mindvox.com>
List-Subscribe: <mailto:ibogaine-subscribe@mindvox.com>
Delivered-To: mailing list ibogaine@mindvox.com
X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.1 required=4.0
X-Antivirus-MYDOMAIN-Mail-From: a.h.veil68@hotmail.com via tanelorn.mindvox.com
X-Antivirus-MYDOMAIN: 1.25-st-qms (Clear:RC:0(65.54.224.17):SA:0(-2.1/4.0):. Processed in 8.562412 secs Process 8752)
Return-Path: ibogaine-return-23296-billjohnson6=sympatico.ca@mindvox.com
X-OriginalArrivalTime: 04 Apr 2006 07:03:31.0914 (UTC) FILETIME=[E2025AA0:01C657B5]

Don’t call me Baby…well, you can…since you’re not close enough for me to do anything about it! Plus, that’s a freedom, too…Just like my ability to talk about pro-choice. As for your information, no, I don’t think the way the abortion system is set up–but I absolutely believe in having the right…And no, you don’t have 9 months to decide whether to have the rug rat or not–there is a cut-off, a limit to when abortions can be performed.

And so you think, because cows aren’t pets, or aren’t ‘cute’, then it’s okay to torture them? And to cut the balls of bulls off without any anesthetic? To make chickens live in a cage so small they can barely turn around? And George Bush–wanting to save lives! LOL! That’s the biggest joke I’ve ever heard! But it figures; you’re not special..alot of the people in this country are brain-washed by the constant disinformation they are fed….Why do you think there are a hundred commercials warning of the dangers of marijuana, one of the least harmful drugs known to man, but yet maybe one out of those hundred about the truly dangerous drugs, like H or Coke?

And you don’t have to be a hindu to have compassion for animals other than cats and dogs, you dumb-ass red-neck! In some places they eat dogs…would that be okay if they ate your dog? You know, I’m totally wasting my time talking to you, I can already tell that you are way undereducated, extremely prejudiced. Cows are just food. Are blacks just niggers, too? God, I can’t stand fuckin’ red-necks like you, especially the ones that actually think they’re smart. Once you start doing away with freedoms, it’s all down-hill. Who’s going to decide what’s right and wrong? You?! I would happily put a hollow-point 45 shell into my head if that possibility existed..of course G.W.B. is quite the redneck himself, which is why you probably like him. First of all, HE’s not fighting for anything. I have respect for the
soldiers; they don’t decide the mission, they just do what they’re told. And how many babies do you think die while we were waging a war we were totally lied to about? Or is that okay? You think the babies over there even know what a terrorist is? This world is already over-populated..if people like you ran things, the world would run out of resources within a decade! The oh so precious children! Everyone starts out as a child..some people, like you, remain one, in their minds, their whole life. But those sweet children often grow up to be killers and rapists, and often for no apparent reason!  Strong belief does only one thing: close your mind. Boy, that ibogaine is gonna have fun with you!!!!! Cows are just food! Well, we’re just food, too…if a grizzly decides you look good! God, what egotism!  You claim to be a Christian (I do not) but you must have misssed the part about
not judging lest you be judged yourself…And I bet ibo’s gonna drive that one home with a psychoactive sledgehammer! You’ve got your response, but I really no longer wish to talk with you. I’ve spent too much time arguing with all the fascists on this list, instead of hanging out with the cool, in the know ,people: by that meaning knowing that the whole Govt. is totally corrupt, actually controlled by a few wealthy and extremely powerful people, and they constantly just feed us disinformation, while manipulating the world through economic control, etc, and alot of other things you wouldn’t understand. BYE< NOW, Billy BOY. Go get a burger!

From:  “Billy J” <billjohnson6@sympatico.ca>
Reply-To:  ibogaine@mindvox.com
To:  ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject:  RE: [Ibogaine] Whats a Republican?
Date:  Tue, 04 Apr 2006 02:19:25 -0400
>Hear this peace and take it to your Heart FRIEND.
>1st if we go back to Killing kids for the sins of their fathers
>(Child of a Rapist) Do you think that is more civilized then Raising
>Cattle for food,(Cattle are food “not Pets”) although you may be
>from India or somewhere that they worship your cows and even there
>fecal matter I hear! Now if your are at that junkger(Place) then I
>will have to say -well Al, Bless you, but when was the last time you
>had your precious cow go to war for YOUR FREEDOMS that I am sure you
>are
enjoying- Yes?
>   Allan , do you really love cows (the 4 legged ones that is) or
>are you in your 2nd or 3rd reincarnation and you where once a cow
>and you have come into this wierd mooing stage and you just could
>not figure it out.
>  Ok That is sarcasm – Sorry< I’ll get serious.
>Oh Ya Your aborting a fetus-, and yes I know that in the USof A
>being the most civilized Nation that has usually voted anti-
>Christian ( just in case somebody didn’t let Everybody do what FEELs
>GOOD)
>Ya you can Have sex with anybody you want and then if a girl gets
>pregnant, or do you call it fetus something, oh well  so shes
>pregnant you have 9 months to decide whether or not you what the
>little BLOB Because your fetus can be kicking up a storm and as long
>as you can keep
its stupid( oh it,s brain isn’t functioning yet
>,right) well as long as you can keep its head inside the grown up
>fetus ( that would be the female, The pregnant one, knocked up one ,
>dumb one what ever you would call someone like that ( Maybe MOM)
>well just reach in and CRUSH ITS SCULL and or STICK A SYRINGE INTO
>THe Back of it HEAD JUST UNTIL ITS STOPS PUTTINGN UP A FIGHT, AND
>they do fight Allan, just go and ask your abortion doctor.– PARTIAL
>BIRTH ABORTION– VERY NICE–
>  oH YA AND YOU KNOW WHAT ALLY BABY THAT STUPID WAR MOGER THAT YOU
>HAVE AS A PRESIDENT WOULD LIKE NOTHING MORE THAN TO SAVE PEOPLE BUT
>ALL YOU PEOPLE THAT GOD GAVE YOU FREE CHOICE HAVE DECIDED TO VOTE
>FOR THE REAL KILLERS-
>   Have you any clue how many of your fetuses are done away with
>each year
in the USA alone,, Allan Baby– way way more in 1 year
>than have been killed in ALL the World wars— How many do you think
>are rape and how many are just another form of birth control,, Your
>Planned Parenthood is a multi-Billion dollar industry that fights
>for you to have the freedom to get rid of your Babies- But They do
>not do it for free– They are rich.One more thing if we can justify
>killing because you THINK they don’t feel pain- Why not line up all
>us addicts right after a good whack and while we are feeling no pain
>BANG-
>Save a lot of tax dollars- The Meth Clinics would be Pissed though.
>
>Love Ya!
>
>Just Don’t say it is OK To Kill My Children- Or Yours
>
>B
>
>—-Original Message Follows—-
>From: “Alan Hehe”
<a.h.veil68@hotmail.com>
>Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
>To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
>Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] RE: [Pornography,psychology,Choice,force,) 2
>cents
>Date: Tue, 04 Apr 2006 01:25:21 -0400
>MIME-Version: 1.0
>Received: from tomts30-srv.bellnexxia.net ([209.226.175.104]) by
>bay0-pamc1-f3.bay0.hotmail.com with Microsoft
>SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Mon, 3 Apr 2006 22:27:22 -0700
>Received: from toip4.bellnexxia.net ([209.226.175.87])          by
>tomts30-srv.bellnexxia.net          (InterMail vM.5.01.06.13
>201-253-122-130-113-20050324) with ESMTP          id
><20060404052721.IXFI18550.tomts30-srv.bellnexxia.net@toip4.bellnexxia.net>

>          for <billjohnson6@sympatico.ca>; Tue, 4 Apr 2006 01:27:21
>-0400
>Received: from tanelorn.mindvox.com (HELO mail.mindvox.com)
>([64.124.179.118])  by toip4.bellnexxia.net with ESMTP; 04 Apr 2006
>01:27:16 -0400
>Received: (qmail 1073 invoked by uid 513); 4 Apr 2006 01:27:15 -0400
>Received: (qmail 1067 invoked by uid 514); 4 Apr 2006 01:27:15 -0400
>X-Message-Info: moY6YVwXQ46hfM+PXD+r03SFMVOY3E1daJYU/Sm1Nkw=
>Mailing-List: contact ibogaine-help@mindvox.com; run by ezmlm
>Precedence: bulk
>X-No-Archive: yes
>List-Post: <mailto:ibogaine@mindvox.com>
>List-Help: <mailto:ibogaine-help@mindvox.com>
>List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:ibogaine-unsubscribe@mindvox.com>
>List-Subscribe:
<mailto:ibogaine-subscribe@mindvox.com>
>Delivered-To: mailing list ibogaine@mindvox.com
>X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.1 required=4.0
>X-Antivirus-MYDOMAIN-Mail-From: a.h.veil68@hotmail.com via
>tanelorn.mindvox.com
>X-Antivirus-MYDOMAIN: 1.25-st-qms
>(Clear:RC:0(65.54.224.26):SA:0(-2.1/4.0):. Processed in 8.08646 secs
>Process 1055)
>Return-Path:
>ibogaine-return-23280-billjohnson6=sympatico.ca@mindvox.com
>X-OriginalArrivalTime: 04 Apr 2006 05:27:22.0868 (UTC)
>FILETIME=[7363CB40:01C657A8]
>
>
>
>   I gotta take a piece of this one. Okay, Mr. Anti-choice, let me
>ask you this: do you eat meat? If not, then good for you. If so,
>have you ever though about the actual, truly painful, totally
>inhumane treatment we put animals through? And usually don’t think

>twice about it…It’s people like George Bush who make me wish
>sometimes that God would hurl an asteroid at us! It’s “God forbid
>one human foetus (who does not feel a thing if the abortion is done
>in a timely manner, according to the latest research, because their
>nervous system isn’t nearly fully developed) should perish, no
>matter if it was caused by a rape or is probably going to be born
>into alot of suffering–but while I’m on my high horse, cut me a
>piece o that cow off and cook it up! It’s sheer egotism that we
>believe that humans are so damned
>important, but it’s okay if we torture animals, ruin the planet, and
>make other people adhere to our beliefs!!! We’re not that important!
>And if you believe in a God and the soul, then you know that–if the
>foetus even has a soul yet, which
I don’t believe it does..I believe
>the soul enters with the first breath, and leaves with the
>last–that baby is just going back into the arms of God! There is no
>death! And since they don’t experience pain, all it becomes is
>something for people like you to feel self righteous about!
>Personally, I think everyone should smoke pot, and would benefit
>from it (except for a few cases), but how would you like it if I
>MADE you smoke it? That is, if you don’t, and don’t like it. Or
>let’s say you eat meat, but I think it’s just as evil to do that as
>to allow abortions, so I outlawed meat–would that be okay with you?
>And the cliff analogy is just stupid–not
>the same thing at all. But yes, I think if a person is truly
>miserable, and wants to die, I would try to talk them out of it, but
>I would
never stop them by force. That’s called LACK OF FREEDOM. And
>if we didn’t make mistakes, how would we ever learn? To be told
>something is wrong is one thing..you can tell a person, fire will
>burn you..but until they get burned, they will not truly understand,
>and that’s what life is all about–learning. No, I don’t like to see
>foetus’ abortions–I think prevention is the answer….But
>sometimes, I believe it is ‘the best choice’. If everyone like you
>had their way, there really would be NO ROOM AT ALL left!!! We’re
>already sooo over-populated! It’s like I heard some character say in
>a movie recently..”everybody’s kids are so special…it makes you
>wonder where all the normal adults come from”. Even God believes in
>freedom of choice! That’s why he gave
>us FREE WILL. You’re a Republican, aren’t
you? And you probably
>think that war-mongering asshole of a President is the best-thing
>since sliced bread, eh? It’s okay to kill, as long as it’s not a
>precious child…even though that child may grow up to be The Son of
>Sam!  well…”take me by the ham, no good, no evil, no give a
>damn!”  And the Govt. is lying to you! About just about everything.
>Peace, love, and freedom. Life is too mysterious to take it so
>serious!
>
>
>
>
>
>
>From:  “Billy J” <billjohnson6@sympatico.ca>
>Reply-To:  ibogaine@mindvox.com
>To:  ibogaine@mindvox.com
>Subject:  [Ibogaine] RE: [Pornography,psychology,Choice,force,) 2
>cents
>Date:  Sun, 02 Apr 2006 21:45:39 -0400
> >Well It sounds like this place is
really mixing it up so I would
> >like to add a little REALITY TO YOU PRO CHOICERS, I am sure glad I
> >was not an abortion’ althought I have had my moments.
> >Yes My Mom was a young Mom and if she had a choice I think that I
> >would have no Grandkids, or be babbleing on here.
> >     I too have an attitude, It is about the only thing in this
> >world that I really have control over.
> >Tiger– How well did you do with making ALL your own Choices,
> >Instead of doing
>what your were told to do? Not meant to be a shot
> >at you personally, but I am with the Right or Wrong crowd- No such
> >thing as grey.
> >   I do know that some people may have grown up believing that
>wrong
> >was right and right was wrong, but I Think that I pretty
much knew
> >when I was stepping out of line and doing wrong.
> >It is (as most believe) My God , no not God, but My worldly given
> >Right- to do wrong- It’s my life and if I want to screw it up then
> >stay out of my way. And you know what I had a lot of sooo called
> >friends that did just that WATCHED, AS i WAS Killing myself and
> >ruining a lot of lifes.
> >But O O O never no no no neverdare step on somebodys toes because
> >you know what they have a choice, Just like those poor little
>Crack
> >%$^&%$ Women that degrade themselves( and me
>myself) due to
> >everybody. But Never No No Never dare tell somebody or force
>someone
> >to get some help that they may never ever make it to on their own,
> >due to something called “Pride” “Shame”
“Guilt”
> >Whatever holds them back. They may end up DEAD and it would be
>their
> >own fault, because you know how STRONG us druggies are, and if
>that
> >person dies because he had a choice to get help and refused or
>just
> >couldn’t make it on his/her own and needed YOU (of course they
> >didn’t tell you that).
> >I am sorry but I BELIEVE that if you Love Someone or even care a
> >little, and you see them walking off a cliff and YOU have an
> >opportunity to stop them, and you don’t- Can you truelly say it
>was
> >their own fault?
> >Pornography- I never met too many Normal people that would find it
> >neccesary to take their
>cloths off for the public to see. Totally
> >wrong and if you had your own kids you might not think it too cool
>
>having your buddy beating off while checking out your little girl.
> >Not nice eh Billy but P–sy T-ts are not meant for anyone except
>who
> >they belong to and their mate.
> >
> >Bye For Now, That stuff is about the biggest trigger going for any
> >downfall
> >
> >Bill
> >—-Original Message Follows—-
> >From: “Nick Sandberg” <nick227@tiscali.co.uk>
> >Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
> >To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
> >Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Opiates
> >Date: Sun, 2 Apr 2006 10:24:07 +0100
> >MIME-Version: 1.0
> >Received: from tomts21-srv.bellnexxia.net ([209.226.175.183]) by
> >bay0-pamc1-f11.bay0.hotmail.com with Microsoft
> >SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Sun, 2 Apr 2006 05:38:59
>-0700
> >Received:
from toip5.bellnexxia.net ([209.226.175.88])          by
> >tomts21-srv.bellnexxia.net          (InterMail vM.5.01.06.13
> >201-253-122-130-113-20050324) with ESMTP          id
> ><20060402123858.HZPV14030.tomts21-srv.bellnexxia.net@toip5.bellnexxia.net>
> >          for <billjohnson6@sympatico.ca>; Sun, 2 Apr 2006
>08:38:58
> >-0400
> >Received: from tanelorn.mindvox.com (HELO mail.mindvox.com)
> >([64.124.179.118])  by toip5.bellnexxia.net with ESMTP; 02 Apr
>2006
> >08:38:58 -0400
> >Received: (qmail 16967 invoked by uid 513); 2 Apr 2006 08:38:55
> >-0400
>
>Received: (qmail 16961 invoked by uid
>514); 2 Apr 2006 08:38:55
> >-0400
> >X-Message-Info: moY6YVwXQ44WAJnUvaOEtK2hXKGagKAsshDbZwj7pSc=
> >Mailing-List: contact ibogaine-help@mindvox.com; run by ezmlm
> >Precedence: bulk
> >X-No-Archive: yes
> >List-Post: <mailto:ibogaine@mindvox.com>
> >List-Help: <mailto:ibogaine-help@mindvox.com>
> >List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:ibogaine-unsubscribe@mindvox.com>
> >List-Subscribe: <mailto:ibogaine-subscribe@mindvox.com>
> >Delivered-To: mailing list ibogaine@mindvox.com
> >X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.3 required=4.0
> >X-Antivirus-MYDOMAIN-Mail-From: nick227@tiscali.co.uk via
> >tanelorn.mindvox.com
> >X-Antivirus-MYDOMAIN: 1.25-st-qms
> >(Clear:RC:0(212.74.114.37):SA:0(-2.3/4.0):.
Processed in 2.781926
> >secs Process 16953)
> >X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true
> >X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result:
>AQAAAJ0kL0SDE4UI
> >X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.6604 (9.0.2911.0)
> >Return-Path:
> >ibogaine-return-23233-billjohnson6=sympatico.ca@mindvox.com
> >X-OriginalArrivalTime: 02 Apr 2006 12:38:59.0373 (UTC)
> >FILETIME=[6A155DD0:01C65652]
> >
> >
> >   —–Original Message—–
> >   From: Tiger Lisa [mailto:tigerlisa@gmail.com]
> >   Sent: 01 April 2006 13:44
> >   To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
> >   Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Opiates
> >
> >
> >   Dear Nick,
> >   Here’ the part I don’t understand.
> >
>
>   You wrote,
> >   Personally, my position is…I think rising awareness is GOOD.
>I
> >would
> >love to see more people in groups, going through their stuff,
> >becoming more
> >aware of their
>personal interior dynamic, and moving forward in
> >life. But,
> >sadly, I’m not in a position to compel people to do this.
> >
> >   Why would you ever want to COMPEL anyone to do ANYTHING? Do you
> >really
> >believe that would be useful, effective, helpful? Do you think
> >people
> >actually benefit from, and grow from, being FORCED to do anything?
> >
> >   That is a parent-child model of interaction (and not a
> >particularly
> >skillful one, IMO), and it’s going to reinforce
childlike,
> >rebellious and
> >victim behavior (NOT self-awareness!) in the one so compelled, as
> >well as
> >reinforcing bullying behavior and disprespectful and righteous
> >attitudes
> >(NOT increased compassion or awareness) in the one doing the
> >compelling. A
> >”lose-lose” interaction–no one
>wins!
> >
> >   Myself, I believe CHOICE is the name of the game. With choice
> >comes
> >responsibility, self-responsibility and a loss of the victim
> >consciousness
> >that drives continued reactive and unconscious behavior.
> >
> >   So in a nutshell: Saying something (like awarenss) is GOOD is
>one
> >thing,
> >but it’s a far cry from that to say,”And I’d love to FORCE you all
> >to
be
> >more aware! too bad I can’t!” I think that is the essence of
>what
> >*I* am
> >having a problem with. Yes, awareness is good. I agree. Yes, I’d
> >love to
> >live in a more aware society, umm hmm. Then I read the next
>sentence
> >and I’m
> >brought up short.
> >
> >   We all need love, acceptance, compassion. Compassion is one of
> >the most
> >healing things
>going! Power and control, on the other hand, just get
> >people’s backs up, thrust them into dysfunctional modes of
>thinking
> >and
> >perpetuate a lack of awareness all around.
> >
> >   Just my two cents,
> >   Tiger
> >
> >   PS I bet if you took a shot of heroin, you would
experience
> >bliss! (not
> >that I’m suggesting you do) I believe it is just how human beings
> >are wired.
> >We’ve all got the same neurotransmitters, more or less.
> >
> >   Hi Tiger,
> >
> >   Well, I seem to recall, from the days when I used to go to
> >conferences and
> >stuff, that studies have shown that only a small percentage of
> >school kids
> >who used heroin developed a habit. (Howard Parker in Sheffield, or
> >something
> >like that, about 1000 individuals
>studied). This is not quite the
> >same as
> >what you’re saying, I appreciate, but it shows that the drug of
> >itself is
> >not necessarily addicting. I don’t know if anyone knows what makes
>a
> >difference but I’d
be willing to bet that, psychologically, it
> >relates
> >strongly to “ego orientation” vs “underlying levels of feeling.”
>If
> >you’ve
> >developed a self-image that requires you to repress more feelings
> >than the
> >endogenous opiates in your body can do, then taking heroin is
>going
> >to make
> >you feel pretty good. I would personally say that this is very
> >likely one
> >psychological mechanism behind addiction. This would explain why
>so
> >many
> >addicts do come from relatively high trauma backgrounds. For, as
> >kids, we
> >learn that to “get things” and to “be popular” we need to
>be able to
> >keep
> >our feelings a bit under control, not just likely to collapse from
> >overfeeling at any
time.
> >
> >   With bliss, (or anxiety for that matter), these are
>experiential
> >things
> >and no neuroscientist can explain them beyond pointing a little at
> >things
> >that seem to be involved. What is clear is that the states are
> >relative to
> >one another. If you’re basically a happy person bliss is
>inevitably
> >less
> >attractive than if you’re an anxious person.
> >
> >   About awareness, yes, I would love to force everyone to be more
> >aware!
> >And, inevitably, it doesn’t really work like that! But that’s my
> >position
> >anyway. What to do? Yes, compassion is needed, sometimes a lot of
> >it. Also,
> >all the power and control at times. I’m not so
>busy with how I
think
> >society
> >should be, or trying to like Understand the world, I just put my
> >position
> >out really. About choice, well, it seems like a great thing, for
> >sure, but
> >to me it’s a little the same as trying to push compassion at the
> >expense of
> >power. In philosophy or spirituality or whatever, some people
> >believe that
> >free will exists, others that the universe is entirely
> >deterministic. Who
> >the fuck knows? Both are cool viewpoints, and I personally
>wouldn’t
> >just
> >want to just trapped in just one of them.
> >
> >   Is it cool to allow someone you care about to carry on fucking
> >their life
> >up because you believe so much in their free will? Not for me! I
> >like
to
> >have the guts to take a position. And, to be honest, it’s a little
>
> >bit what
> >I miss in this list, where half the time everyone seems to be
> >talking it up
> >all nice but actually underneath there are shed-loads of feelings.
>I
> >don’t
> >know if this says anything significant about ibogaine, or about
>the
> >people
> >who are attracted to administering it, or what. But I notice it.
> >
> >   Nick
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >/]=———————————————————————=[\
> >[%] Ibogaine List Commands:
> >http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
> >
>
>\]=———————————————————————=[/
> >
> >
>
>  With MSN Spaces email straight to your blog. Upload jokes, photos
>and more. It’s free!
>
>
>
>
>/]=———————————————————————=[\
>  [%] Ibogaine List Commands:
>http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
>
>\]=———————————————————————=[/
>
>
>
>
>
>/]=———————————————————————=[\
>[%] Ibogaine List Commands:
>http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html
[%]
>
>\]=———————————————————————=[/
>
>

Be one of the first to try Windows Live Mail

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: “Nick Sandberg” <nick227@tiscali.co.uk>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] RE:anger
Date: April 4, 2006 at 5:11:28 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Alan,

Fair enough! You seem like a forthright guy to me. I have done a lot of things that you talk about also, and believed the same stuff too. We are probably quite similar. I have also been “too clever” for the therapists in the past. I guess I thought it was like some game of cat and mouse and I didn’t connect to the reality of someone who was actually trying to help me. I missed that bit because I figured I knew it all better. Life had to get more desperate for me so that I could start to see that, for all my cleverness, very few of my emotional needs were actually getting met, and that in reality I needed help. Yeah, and I did the “teachings” scene too, the week-long satsangs on Goa beaches and “enlightenment intensives” in Poona. Thankfully all I got from that was that my only real responsibility was to actually take on what I was carrying around, to stop avoiding myself in search of some teaching that underneath was allowing me to just bullshit my way out of feeling stuff. I couldn’t really give a toss about philosophy or spirituality these days (well, getting there slowly!) and am still kind of grateful I was never deluded enough to try and become a Buddhist, which is what happens to a lot of angry young guys who don’t want to feel anymore. Poor souls. Yeah, Freud always seemed grossly uncool to me and Jung the opposite, nowadays it’s more the other way round. The world of concepts, with its “ego” and all these things that had to be “overcome,” man what a deranged trip that is. Just the same old parental conditioning coming back round again, you gotta drop this you gotta overcome that. Poor old Carl, trying to put everything into a map, with all those long, long books. I would love to have put him into a Humaniversity AUM meditation and let him experience the bliss beyond fear. So simple. But that’s just me. I guess his protege Wilhelm Reich still seems pretty cool to me. The Function of the Orgasm is such a great name for a book. I would read it except I don’t read books! I was punk in London in the 80s too, getting wasted in the Fox and Gossips, going to see the Ramones at the Academy, living in squats in Camden arguing with goths. And politics, and conspiracy theories. I’m still in the US who’s who for writing conspiracy theories. Yeah, maybe we’re the same person!

Nick

—–Original Message—–
From: Alan Hehe [mailto:a.h.veil68@hotmail.com]
Sent: 04 April 2006 21:17
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] RE:anger

Nick-
Perhaps I have been a little hard on you…it is true that I came from a traumatic background…I grew up fighting, both with my fists and my mind. But let me say this: I did not “scour” the internet looking for the info I posted for you. Believe it or not, it was the second site I came to. I agree with some of your theories, but I don’t agree with the way in which you choose to deal with them.
As far as being a psychonaut, I have travelled–on mushroom, L>S>D and Dextromethorphan to places you wouldn’t believe. I also do alot of meditating…I’ve always had a deep interest in Eastern philosophies, especially Zen and Tibetan Buddhism. And what I find is that Jesus, Lao-tse, Buddha, Mohammad, and many other spiritual teachers preach basically the same thing: love all (including animals..which we are at our most basic level), do not get attached to material things, that death is just a passge to another state (although here the different religions begin to show their differences more..at least APPARENTLY) and to avoid the ego-trap. I try to live by these teachings, but often fail.
As far as the whole “treatment” aspect of addiction goes, I believe some people need it and some people don’t. For me, it doesn’t work…in fact, when I was a teen I attempted suicide and for a time I was seeing a psychologist…but he got no-where with me, and this is what he said, in so many words: that I was too intelligent, too knowledgeable about psychology for him to treat me. I knew all the tricks…I knew what he wanted to hear and what would cause him to make notes in his little book. I already knew basically how a “normal person” is supposed to interpret those Rorsch Ink Blots. I also think alot of psychology is just alot of hogwash!  I do like some of Jung’s work, especially his research on archetypes and the collective unconsciousness and such…but his predecessor, his teacher? He (Freud) was one of the most psychologically disturbed people to ever foul our minds!
Yes, I do react, perhaps a little too seriously…and it’s not really that my beliefs are being threatened…I don’t actually have that many beliefs, but the few I have I do feel strongly about. So…I’m sorry for being so tough on you. Please don’t make me regret saying that…no-one is always right, Nick, or rarely ever entirely right–including me. I know alot of people who, when they read the part about me having a high I.Q., or being intelligent, will think: He can’t be that smart if he tried to kill himself! And they will be both right…and wrong. People in the West usually think something has to be either yes or no, right or wrong, on or off. And mostly that is the case–but not always. Eastern philosophy allows for a middle point, and understands how negatives and positives define each other….Being intelligent, you learn alot of things about the world that are not nice at all…you can’t have the “bliss” of ignorance, like some…You know that eating animals, unless that’s all there is, and then you thank the animal for giving ITS life so YOU could live, is usually wrong…I still have relapses…I haven’t always been a vegetarian. I also believe strongly in moderation. When you’re intelligent enough, you see through the lies of the Govt! You can’t lose yourself in silly T.V shows…you see ALL…and despite all the natural beauty, and the fact that the universe if filled with an energy that radiates love, you also see the cruelty and stupidity of your fellow man…yet still try to love him.
Well, that’s it. I don’t want to be accussed of writing too long of an e-mail again. But if “mind-y” means intelligent, than I plead guilty. But I assure you I am not a nerd. I’m outgowing, used to be pretty good with the ladies (till I made a commitment to one), can fight like a tiger, and love old Punk rock! So don’t try to pigenhole me!

From:  “Nick Sandberg” <nick227@tiscali.co.uk>
Reply-To:  ibogaine@mindvox.com
To:  <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Subject:  RE: [Ibogaine] Pot calling the Kettle Black?
Date:  Tue, 4 Apr 2006 12:45:47 +0100
>
>
> > —–Original Message—–
> > From: Preston Peet [mailto:ptpeet@nyc.rr.com]
> > Sent: 04 April 2006 12:20
> > To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
> > Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Pot calling the Kettle Black?
> >
> >
> > >But, working around addicts, what I see time and again is that they are
> > >either from high trauma backgrounds or are just acutely
> > sensitive, ie have
> > >trouble repressing feelings. To me there’s a pretty clear relationship
> > >between tendencies to opiate usage and the body’s ability to repress
> > >feeling.<
> >
> > And if this is the case Nick, why out of curiosity is this
> > necessarily a bad
> > thing? Or is it? Or are there gray areas here in your view?
> >
>
>Hi Preston,
>
>For sure there are grey areas. It’s just a tendency I notice in people using
>opiates. A lot either seem to be hypersensitive or coming from a fairly
>traumatic background. Both suggest to me they have a problem repressing
>feelings. It’s not a bad thing at all. It’s just an observation. We’re all
>just people at the end of the day.
>
>Nick
>
> > —–
> > “If God dropped acid, would he see people?”  ~Steven Wright
> >
> > Peace, love and lotsof respect.
> > Preston Peet
> > ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
> > Editor Underground- the Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations,
> > Astonishing Archaeology and Hidden History
> > Editor Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs
> > Editor http://www.drugwar.com
> > Columnist HighTimes mag/.com
> > Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
> > Columnist New York Waste
> > Etc.
> >
> > —– Original Message —–
> > From: Nick Sandberg
> > To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
> > Sent: Tuesday, April 04, 2006 5:01 AM
> > Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Pot calling the Kettle Black?
> >
> >
> > Alan,
> >
> > To be honest, I find you wrapped up so tight I am a bit scared to even
> > communicate with you. I don’t know where things will go for you. I mean,
> > just the suggestion that you are using opiates to hold down feelings and
> > you’re at like defcon2 or something. Why not just check out why
> > what I write
> > brings up so much feeling in you? You think anger is created by events
> > external to yourself? It can be triggered, for sure. But you
> > gotta own your
> > part of it. For me, you have every trait of someone who is very
> > strongly in
> > denial. You create some whole drama out of a few comments I make about
> > opiates, feelings and bliss and seem convinced that you only use them to
> > give you bliss or something. I’m just pushing out a little energy in the
> > other direction. That’s all. Why do you seem to regard this as
> > some form of
> > abuse? I find you wrapped up tight, guy, really.
> >
> > I make a comment – “If you experience bliss from an analgesic it
> > is because
> > your body is struggling to hold down a lot of feelings your ego
> > has decided
> > it doesn’t want to have” and you create from it “only emotionally
> > repressed
> > individuals receive any sort of high from opiates.” To me that’s
> > exaggeration. Ok, maybe not so much but it’s there. You also try
> > and justify
> > your own position by apparently scouring the net for some neurochemical
> > stuff that says it isn’t so. I mean, to me that’s just a total defense
> > reaction. I am not trying to create some big picture of how
> > things are, some
> > all-encompassing truth about addiction, my experience is that no
> > such thing
> > exists. I’m just pushing out a bit of energy. Yeah, maybe
> > neurochemists have
> > discovered how opiates work. Maybe. If so, it’s great. And I’m
> > happy to take
> > this new perspective in. And I’m happy to apologize if it’s upset you so
> > much. But, working around addicts, what I see time and again is that they
> > are either from high trauma backgrounds or are just acutely sensitive, ie
> > have trouble repressing feelings. To me there’s a pretty clear
> > relationship
> > between tendencies to opiate usage and the body’s ability to repress
> > feeling.
> >
> > Now you’re going to take ibogaine, which you seem to feel is holding out
> > some kind of “cure” for your drug usage. Or maybe I’m reading you
> > wrong. I
> > certainly hope it’s good for you, man. And I don’t know what
> > iboga will do
> > for you personally, but what I do know is that it helps if you
> > are open to
> > honest self evaluation – that you can allow yourself to travel the many
> > corridors of the psyche, especially the ones where ordinarily it
> > looks a bit
> > scary. Plenty of people have taken the drug, seen some God or other, been
> > drug free for a few weeks or months, all totally valuable
> > experiences, and
> > then found themselves back using pretty soon. And a lot of people are
> > attracted to ibogaine because they think it’s some kind of treatment that
> > avoids formal rehab, avoids them having to be open and show their
> > feelings
> > in front of others. My experience is that it doesn’t really work
> > like that.
> >
> > All in all, I’d like to be a friend to you. My intention is not
> > bad. I just
> > like to feel a bit of emotional reality in people so I put energy out and
> > see how it goes. Helps me feel connected to people, coz otherwise
> > it’s just
> > the mind putting out what it thinks you want to hear and I don’t
> > find that
> > so satisfying really. Just another game.
> >
> > Nick
> >
> >
> >
> > —–Original Message—–
> > From: Alan Hehe [mailto:a.h.veil68@hotmail.com]
> > Sent: 04 April 2006 04:34
> > To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
> > Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Pot calling the Kettle Black?
> >
> >
> >   Nick…you are soooo full of shit. That’s exactly what you said, and
> > you’re lucky I don’t have the e-mail anymore or I’d shove it down your
> > lying, cyber throat!!!!!
> >      Come on..Preston, someone…does anyone have that email, the
> > one where
> > I posted the medical info I think might have his actual statement
> > on it….I
> > would appreciate if someone could send it back to me. Almost word
> > for word
> > what you said was (grammatical errors included) “Opiate is an
> > analgesic. It
> > stops feeling. Only someone with alot of repressed emotions receive bliss
> > from analgesics, like opiates….” (you also said something about
> > ego-orientation)…then you said “if you can think of another reason I’d
> > love to hear it.”  Now I’m positive that I want nothing more to do with
> > you…so let sleeping dogs lie, or I swear I will rip you
> > apart…and that
> > way, you won’t have to “be manipulated anymore!” You dug your own
> > grave with
> > a drstically stupid statement, and you’re too full of yourself to just
> > say…”hey, I was wrong”. Now, for the second time, BYE!!!!!
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > From: “Nick Sandberg” <nick227@tiscali.co.uk>
> > Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
> > To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
> > Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Pot calling the Kettle Black?
> > Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2006 08:53:07 +0100
> >
> >
> >
> > —–Original Message—–
> > From: Alan Hehe [mailto:a.h.veil68@hotmail.com]
> > Sent: 02 April 2006 17:32
> > To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
> > Subject: [Ibogaine] Pot calling the Kettle Black?
> >
> >
> >     Hey…uh, Biscuit Boy,
> >     What’s the matter? Do you NOT like my debate with Nick, or do
> > you just
> > not like the fact that Ann paid me a compliment? Do you agree with Nick’s
> > idea that only emotionally repressed individuals receive any sort of high
> > from opiates? If you’ve got something to say, why not come out
> > and say it?
> > Have you never done opiates? Or any drugs? What gives you the
> > right to judge
> > Ann? Personally I don’t care if her comment was influened by a
> > whole gram of
> > Mexican brown! Better a nice compliment from someone high, than a
> > nasty one
> > from someone sober! Now, if I’ve misconstrued your intent, I
> > apologize, but
> > I would appreciate a logical explanation rather than a low-blow
> > insinuation.
> >
> > Hi Alan,
> >  only emotionally repressed individuals receive any sort of high from
> > opiates – I did not make such an extreme statement. I said there was a
> > relationship between the two, that the bliss experienced on
> > opiates relates
> > to the degree of ego-repressed feeling. You grab stuff,
> > exaggerate it to an
> > extreme position and then criticize your own interpretation.
> > Welcome to the
> > wonderful world of manipulation! I see a great career in media or
> > politics
> > opening up before you.
> > BTW, this IS the classic trait for someone who is using belief
> > patterns to
> > hold down feelings. If something challenges the belief then repressed
> > feelings start to rise “OMG, what if I’m really like so!” or whatever and
> > the mind acts to push the feelings back down again, rearranging
> > what is said
> > into something it can criticize and expel. Frankly, I also see
> > myself doing
> > it at times! Letting go of beliefs can be a toughie.
> > Nick
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > From:  biscuitboy714@aol.com
> > Reply-To:  ibogaine@mindvox.com
> > To:  ibogaine@mindvox.com
> > Subject:  Re: [Ibogaine] Opiate effects
> > Date:  Sun, 02 Apr 2006 11:05:09 -0400
> > >Yea Ann, tell us how much heroin you shot last night. He He I
> > >couldn’t help it. I love you Mamma           Randy
> > >
> > >—–Original Message—–
> > >From: Alan Hehe <a.h.veil68@hotmail.com>
> > >To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
> > >Sent: Sat, 01 Apr 2006 11:15:03 -0500
> > >Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Opiate effects
> > >
> > >     Hey Ann,
> > >
> > >     Thank you for the compliment…Somebody’s got to try to counter
> > >his crazy ideas with some sense. Feel free to write me anytime..I
> > >really enjoy talking to people on this list and hearing their
> > >stories…Oh, don’t tell anyone, but I studied semantics and debate
> > >in high school! Just kidding…about the hush hush, as anyone will
> > >be able to read this. Oh, heck–LOL! I’m 37, and High school is but
> > >a distant, mainly unplesant experience…except when I would catch
> > >my English teacher making grammatical or syntactical mistakes,
> > >before they moved me into an A.P. college-level class…And no, I’m
> > >not conceited, either..but I do enjoy debate! Everyone has certain
> > >qualities at which they excel, and others at which they are
> > >deficient. I make up for my skill in English by being a retard in
> > >math! Plus, I couldn’t be that smart or I wouldn’t be here, looking
> > >for a way out of the hell-hole I dug for myself….and despite
> > >having a really shitty childhood, I take complete responsibility for
> > >my current position in
> > >life……………………………….Wishing you the best in
> > >all…….Alan.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >  ——–
> > >From: “Ann B. Mullikin” <think@francomm.com>
> > >Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
> > >To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
> > >Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Opiate effects
> > >Date: Sat, 1 Apr 2006 10:04:20 -0500
> > >
> > >  No, I am not Nick but…..
> > >
> > >  Bravo, Alan.  I surely do appreciate the way you use your brain –
> > >TO THINK AND TO REASON.  Its good stuff.  Keep on.
> > >
> > >ann
> > >think@francomm.com
> > >
> > >  —– Original Message —–
> > >From: Alan Hehe
> > >To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
> > >Sent: Friday, March 31, 2006 4:49 PM
> > >Subject: [Ibogaine] Opiate effects
> > >
> > >
> > >    Hey Nick,
> > >
> > >     I wanted to say that, although I was basically right, I believe
> > >(and according to the research I’ve done) about the reason opiates
> > >cause pleasure, I wasn’t entirely correct about the natural opiates
> > >(dopamine,etc) having an effect on mood. They do have an affect on
> > >mood..but then again, so does euphoria..in fact, it could be said to
> > >be a mood unto itself. Here’s a little medical info for: Opiates
> > >(heroin, morphine, etc.)
> > >
> > >  The human body naturally produces its own opiate-like substances
> > >and uses them as neurotransmitters. These substances include
> > >endorphins, enkephalins, and dynorphin, often collectively known as
> > >endogenous opioids. Endogenous opioids modulate our reactions to
> > >painful stimuli. They also regulate vital functions such as hunger
> > >and thirst and are involved in mood control, immune response, and
> > >other processes.
> > >
> > >The reason that opiates such as heroin and morphine affect us so
> > >powerfully is that these exogenous substances bind to the same
> > >receptors as our endogenous opioids. There are three kinds of
> > >receptors widely distributed throughout the brain: mu, delta, and
> > >kappa receptors.
> > >
> > >These receptors, through second messengers, influence the likelihood
> > >that ion channels will open, which in certain cases reduces the
> > >excitability of neurons. This reduced excitability is the likely
> > >source of the euphoric effect of opiates and appears to be mediated
> > >by the mu and delta receptors.
> > >
> > >This euphoric effect also appears to involve another mechanism in
> > >which the GABA-inhibitory interneurons of the ventral tegmental area
> > >come into play. By attaching to their mu receptors, exogenous
> > >opioids reduce the amount of GABA released (see animation).
> > >Normally, GABA reduces the amount of dopamine released in the
> > >nucleus accumbens. By inhibiting this inhibitor, the opiates
> > >ultimately increase the amount of dopamine produced and the amount
> > >of pleasure felt.
> > >
> > >Chronic consumption of opiates inhibits the production of cAMP, but
> > >this inhibition is offset in the long run by other cAMP production
> > >mechanisms. When no opiates are available, this increased cAMP
> > >production capacity comes to the fore and results in neural
> > >hyperactivity and the sensation of craving the drug.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >——–
> > >  Make FREE PC-to-PC calls with MSN Messenger. Get it now!
> > >/]=———————————————————————=
> > >[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands:
> > >http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
> > >\]=———————————————————————=
> > >[/
> > >
> > >
> > >——–
> > >  Find just what you’re after with the new, more precise MSN Search
> > >- try it now!
> > >/]=———————————————————————=
> > >[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands:
> > >http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
> > >\]=———————————————————————=
> > >[/
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >/]=————————————————————–
> > ——-=[\
> > >[%] Ibogaine List Commands:
> > >http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
> > >
> > >\]=————————————————————–
> > ——-=[/
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Be one of the first to try Windows Live Mail
> > /]=—————————————————————
> > ——=[\
> > [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html
> > [%]
> > \]=—————————————————————
> > ——=[/
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Play Trivia with MSN Messenger for a chance to win an XBOXT 360
> > prize pack!
> > /]=—————————————————————
> > ——=[\
> > [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html
> > [%]
> > \]=—————————————————————
> > ——=[/
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > /]=—————————————————————
> > ——=[\
> >  [%] Ibogaine List Commands:
> > http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
> >
> > \]=—————————————————————
> > ——=[/
> >
> >
>
>
>   /]=———————————————————————=[\
>  [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
>   \]=———————————————————————=[/
>
>

See if you’ve won, play MSN Search and Win /]=———————————————————————=[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%] \]=———————————————————————=[/

From: “Ann B. Mullikin” <think@francomm.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Pot calling the Kettle Black?
Date: April 4, 2006 at 4:35:08 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Thanks Rachel for the explanation.  I did send an answer and fessed up to my motherhood thing.  That’s the only
thing to which I seem to be addicted.  Anyway, I got notice from the “Mailer Deamon” that my note couldn’t go through
for some reason???  I have been too involved with other things to send another.  Sorry.

We seem to have a difference in opinions here.  Well, as they say, that’s what makes a horse race – har de har har har.
Talk is cheap and on the other hand it is sometimes very powerful.  Depends totally upon what the receiver makes of it.

But as I said at the beginning, I surely enjoy seeing a good, logical mind at work!!  But thats just because of my opinions,
beliefs and motives.

Love y’all

ann aka Momma
think@francomm.com

—– Original Message —–
From: Eye of the Bhogi
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Monday, April 03, 2006 2:43 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Pot calling the Kettle Black?

Yeah, BiscuitBoy, stop talking to your Momma Ann like that!  Didn’t she raise you better than that?  ; )

You’ve probably already gotten this info. offlist, but yes, you may have misconstrued something there, Alan:  a filial joke. Randy is Ann’s son.  That “I love you Momma” is an actual parent-child reference.  She joined this list to help support him and others’ healing from their drug addictions with the help of Eboga.

Love ya Randy.  Love ya Ann.  Love y’all.

xo Rachel

From: “Alan Hehe” <a.h.veil68@hotmail.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] RE:anger
Date: April 4, 2006 at 4:16:54 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Nick-
Perhaps I have been a little hard on you…it is true that I came from a traumatic background…I grew up fighting, both with my fists and my mind. But let me say this: I did not “scour” the internet looking for the info I posted for you. Believe it or not, it was the second site I came to. I agree with some of your theories, but I don’t agree with the way in which you choose to deal with them.
As far as being a psychonaut, I have travelled–on mushroom, L>S>D and Dextromethorphan to places you wouldn’t believe. I also do alot of meditating…I’ve always had a deep interest in Eastern philosophies, especially Zen and Tibetan Buddhism. And what I find is that Jesus, Lao-tse, Buddha, Mohammad, and many other spiritual teachers preach basically the same thing: love all (including animals..which we are at our most basic level), do not get attached to material things, that death is just a passge to another state (although here the different religions begin to show their differences more..at least APPARENTLY) and to avoid the ego-trap. I try to live by these teachings, but often fail.
As far as the whole “treatment” aspect of addiction goes, I believe some people need it and some people don’t. For me, it doesn’t work…in fact, when I was a teen I attempted suicide and for a time I was seeing a psychologist…but he got no-where with me, and this is what he said, in so many words: that I was too intelligent, too knowledgeable about psychology for him to treat me. I knew all the tricks…I knew what he wanted to hear and what would cause him to make notes in his little book. I already knew basically how a “normal person” is supposed to interpret those Rorsch Ink Blots. I also think alot of psychology is just alot of hogwash!  I do like some of Jung’s work, especially his research on archetypes and the collective unconsciousness and such…but his predecessor, his teacher? He (Freud) was one of the most psychologically disturbed people to ever foul our minds!
Yes, I do react, perhaps a little too seriously…and it’s not really that my beliefs are being threatened…I don’t actually have that many beliefs, but the few I have I do feel strongly about. So…I’m sorry for being so tough on you. Please don’t make me regret saying that…no-one is always right, Nick, or rarely ever entirely right–including me. I know alot of people who, when they read the part about me having a high I.Q., or being intelligent, will think: He can’t be that smart if he tried to kill himself! And they will be both right…and wrong. People in the West usually think something has to be either yes or no, right or wrong, on or off. And mostly that is the case–but not always. Eastern philosophy allows for a middle point, and understands how negatives and positives define each other….Being intelligent, you learn alot of things about the world that are not nice at all…you can’t have the “bliss” of ignorance, like some…You know that eating animals, unless that’s all there is, and then you thank the animal for giving ITS life so YOU could live, is usually wrong…I still have relapses…I haven’t always been a vegetarian. I also believe strongly in moderation. When you’re intelligent enough, you see through the lies of the Govt! You can’t lose yourself in silly T.V shows…you see ALL…and despite all the natural beauty, and the fact that the universe if filled with an energy that radiates love, you also see the cruelty and stupidity of your fellow man…yet still try to love him.
Well, that’s it. I don’t want to be accussed of writing too long of an e-mail again. But if “mind-y” means intelligent, than I plead guilty. But I assure you I am not a nerd. I’m outgowing, used to be pretty good with the ladies (till I made a commitment to one), can fight like a tiger, and love old Punk rock! So don’t try to pigenhole me!

From:  “Nick Sandberg” <nick227@tiscali.co.uk>
Reply-To:  ibogaine@mindvox.com
To:  <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Subject:  RE: [Ibogaine] Pot calling the Kettle Black?
Date:  Tue, 4 Apr 2006 12:45:47 +0100
>
>
> > —–Original Message—–
> > From: Preston Peet [mailto:ptpeet@nyc.rr.com]
> > Sent: 04 April 2006 12:20
> > To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
> > Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Pot calling the Kettle Black?
> >
> >
> > >But, working around addicts, what I see time and again is that they are
> > >either from high trauma backgrounds or are just acutely
> > sensitive, ie have
> > >trouble repressing feelings. To me there’s a pretty clear relationship
> > >between tendencies to opiate usage and the body’s ability to repress
> > >feeling.<
> >
> > And if this is the case Nick, why out of curiosity is this
> > necessarily a bad
> > thing? Or is it? Or are there gray areas here in your view?
> >
>
>Hi Preston,
>
>For sure there are grey areas. It’s just a tendency I notice in people using
>opiates. A lot either seem to be hypersensitive or coming from a fairly
>traumatic background. Both suggest to me they have a problem repressing
>feelings. It’s not a bad thing at all. It’s just an observation. We’re all
>just people at the end of the day.
>
>Nick
>
> > —–
> > “If God dropped acid, would he see people?”  ~Steven Wright
> >
> > Peace, love and lotsof respect.
> > Preston Peet
> > ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
> > Editor Underground- the Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations,
> > Astonishing Archaeology and Hidden History
> > Editor Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs
> > Editor http://www.drugwar.com
> > Columnist HighTimes mag/.com
> > Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
> > Columnist New York Waste
> > Etc.
> >
> > —– Original Message —–
> > From: Nick Sandberg
> > To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
> > Sent: Tuesday, April 04, 2006 5:01 AM
> > Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Pot calling the Kettle Black?
> >
> >
> > Alan,
> >
> > To be honest, I find you wrapped up so tight I am a bit scared to even
> > communicate with you. I don’t know where things will go for you. I mean,
> > just the suggestion that you are using opiates to hold down feelings and
> > you’re at like defcon2 or something. Why not just check out why
> > what I write
> > brings up so much feeling in you? You think anger is created by events
> > external to yourself? It can be triggered, for sure. But you
> > gotta own your
> > part of it. For me, you have every trait of someone who is very
> > strongly in
> > denial. You create some whole drama out of a few comments I make about
> > opiates, feelings and bliss and seem convinced that you only use them to
> > give you bliss or something. I’m just pushing out a little energy in the
> > other direction. That’s all. Why do you seem to regard this as
> > some form of
> > abuse? I find you wrapped up tight, guy, really.
> >
> > I make a comment – “If you experience bliss from an analgesic it
> > is because
> > your body is struggling to hold down a lot of feelings your ego
> > has decided
> > it doesn’t want to have” and you create from it “only emotionally
> > repressed
> > individuals receive any sort of high from opiates.” To me that’s
> > exaggeration. Ok, maybe not so much but it’s there. You also try
> > and justify
> > your own position by apparently scouring the net for some neurochemical
> > stuff that says it isn’t so. I mean, to me that’s just a total defense
> > reaction. I am not trying to create some big picture of how
> > things are, some
> > all-encompassing truth about addiction, my experience is that no
> > such thing
> > exists. I’m just pushing out a bit of energy. Yeah, maybe
> > neurochemists have
> > discovered how opiates work. Maybe. If so, it’s great. And I’m
> > happy to take
> > this new perspective in. And I’m happy to apologize if it’s upset you so
> > much. But, working around addicts, what I see time and again is that they
> > are either from high trauma backgrounds or are just acutely sensitive, ie
> > have trouble repressing feelings. To me there’s a pretty clear
> > relationship
> > between tendencies to opiate usage and the body’s ability to repress
> > feeling.
> >
> > Now you’re going to take ibogaine, which you seem to feel is holding out
> > some kind of “cure” for your drug usage. Or maybe I’m reading you
> > wrong. I
> > certainly hope it’s good for you, man. And I don’t know what
> > iboga will do
> > for you personally, but what I do know is that it helps if you
> > are open to
> > honest self evaluation – that you can allow yourself to travel the many
> > corridors of the psyche, especially the ones where ordinarily it
> > looks a bit
> > scary. Plenty of people have taken the drug, seen some God or other, been
> > drug free for a few weeks or months, all totally valuable
> > experiences, and
> > then found themselves back using pretty soon. And a lot of people are
> > attracted to ibogaine because they think it’s some kind of treatment that
> > avoids formal rehab, avoids them having to be open and show their
> > feelings
> > in front of others. My experience is that it doesn’t really work
> > like that.
> >
> > All in all, I’d like to be a friend to you. My intention is not
> > bad. I just
> > like to feel a bit of emotional reality in people so I put energy out and
> > see how it goes. Helps me feel connected to people, coz otherwise
> > it’s just
> > the mind putting out what it thinks you want to hear and I don’t
> > find that
> > so satisfying really. Just another game.
> >
> > Nick
> >
> >
> >
> > —–Original Message—–
> > From: Alan Hehe [mailto:a.h.veil68@hotmail.com]
> > Sent: 04 April 2006 04:34
> > To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
> > Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Pot calling the Kettle Black?
> >
> >
> >   Nick…you are soooo full of shit. That’s exactly what you said, and
> > you’re lucky I don’t have the e-mail anymore or I’d shove it down your
> > lying, cyber throat!!!!!
> >      Come on..Preston, someone…does anyone have that email, the
> > one where
> > I posted the medical info I think might have his actual statement
> > on it….I
> > would appreciate if someone could send it back to me. Almost word
> > for word
> > what you said was (grammatical errors included) “Opiate is an
> > analgesic. It
> > stops feeling. Only someone with alot of repressed emotions receive bliss
> > from analgesics, like opiates….” (you also said something about
> > ego-orientation)…then you said “if you can think of another reason I’d
> > love to hear it.”  Now I’m positive that I want nothing more to do with
> > you…so let sleeping dogs lie, or I swear I will rip you
> > apart…and that
> > way, you won’t have to “be manipulated anymore!” You dug your own
> > grave with
> > a drstically stupid statement, and you’re too full of yourself to just
> > say…”hey, I was wrong”. Now, for the second time, BYE!!!!!
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > From: “Nick Sandberg” <nick227@tiscali.co.uk>
> > Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
> > To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
> > Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Pot calling the Kettle Black?
> > Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2006 08:53:07 +0100
> >
> >
> >
> > —–Original Message—–
> > From: Alan Hehe [mailto:a.h.veil68@hotmail.com]
> > Sent: 02 April 2006 17:32
> > To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
> > Subject: [Ibogaine] Pot calling the Kettle Black?
> >
> >
> >     Hey…uh, Biscuit Boy,
> >     What’s the matter? Do you NOT like my debate with Nick, or do
> > you just
> > not like the fact that Ann paid me a compliment? Do you agree with Nick’s
> > idea that only emotionally repressed individuals receive any sort of high
> > from opiates? If you’ve got something to say, why not come out
> > and say it?
> > Have you never done opiates? Or any drugs? What gives you the
> > right to judge
> > Ann? Personally I don’t care if her comment was influened by a
> > whole gram of
> > Mexican brown! Better a nice compliment from someone high, than a
> > nasty one
> > from someone sober! Now, if I’ve misconstrued your intent, I
> > apologize, but
> > I would appreciate a logical explanation rather than a low-blow
> > insinuation.
> >
> > Hi Alan,
> >  only emotionally repressed individuals receive any sort of high from
> > opiates – I did not make such an extreme statement. I said there was a
> > relationship between the two, that the bliss experienced on
> > opiates relates
> > to the degree of ego-repressed feeling. You grab stuff,
> > exaggerate it to an
> > extreme position and then criticize your own interpretation.
> > Welcome to the
> > wonderful world of manipulation! I see a great career in media or
> > politics
> > opening up before you.
> > BTW, this IS the classic trait for someone who is using belief
> > patterns to
> > hold down feelings. If something challenges the belief then repressed
> > feelings start to rise “OMG, what if I’m really like so!” or whatever and
> > the mind acts to push the feelings back down again, rearranging
> > what is said
> > into something it can criticize and expel. Frankly, I also see
> > myself doing
> > it at times! Letting go of beliefs can be a toughie.
> > Nick
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > From:  biscuitboy714@aol.com
> > Reply-To:  ibogaine@mindvox.com
> > To:  ibogaine@mindvox.com
> > Subject:  Re: [Ibogaine] Opiate effects
> > Date:  Sun, 02 Apr 2006 11:05:09 -0400
> > >Yea Ann, tell us how much heroin you shot last night. He He I
> > >couldn’t help it. I love you Mamma           Randy
> > >
> > >—–Original Message—–
> > >From: Alan Hehe <a.h.veil68@hotmail.com>
> > >To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
> > >Sent: Sat, 01 Apr 2006 11:15:03 -0500
> > >Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Opiate effects
> > >
> > >     Hey Ann,
> > >
> > >     Thank you for the compliment…Somebody’s got to try to counter
> > >his crazy ideas with some sense. Feel free to write me anytime..I
> > >really enjoy talking to people on this list and hearing their
> > >stories…Oh, don’t tell anyone, but I studied semantics and debate
> > >in high school! Just kidding…about the hush hush, as anyone will
> > >be able to read this. Oh, heck–LOL! I’m 37, and High school is but
> > >a distant, mainly unplesant experience…except when I would catch
> > >my English teacher making grammatical or syntactical mistakes,
> > >before they moved me into an A.P. college-level class…And no, I’m
> > >not conceited, either..but I do enjoy debate! Everyone has certain
> > >qualities at which they excel, and others at which they are
> > >deficient. I make up for my skill in English by being a retard in
> > >math! Plus, I couldn’t be that smart or I wouldn’t be here, looking
> > >for a way out of the hell-hole I dug for myself….and despite
> > >having a really shitty childhood, I take complete responsibility for
> > >my current position in
> > >life……………………………….Wishing you the best in
> > >all…….Alan.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >  ——–
> > >From: “Ann B. Mullikin” <think@francomm.com>
> > >Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
> > >To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
> > >Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Opiate effects
> > >Date: Sat, 1 Apr 2006 10:04:20 -0500
> > >
> > >  No, I am not Nick but…..
> > >
> > >  Bravo, Alan.  I surely do appreciate the way you use your brain –
> > >TO THINK AND TO REASON.  Its good stuff.  Keep on.
> > >
> > >ann
> > >think@francomm.com
> > >
> > >  —– Original Message —–
> > >From: Alan Hehe
> > >To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
> > >Sent: Friday, March 31, 2006 4:49 PM
> > >Subject: [Ibogaine] Opiate effects
> > >
> > >
> > >    Hey Nick,
> > >
> > >     I wanted to say that, although I was basically right, I believe
> > >(and according to the research I’ve done) about the reason opiates
> > >cause pleasure, I wasn’t entirely correct about the natural opiates
> > >(dopamine,etc) having an effect on mood. They do have an affect on
> > >mood..but then again, so does euphoria..in fact, it could be said to
> > >be a mood unto itself. Here’s a little medical info for: Opiates
> > >(heroin, morphine, etc.)
> > >
> > >  The human body naturally produces its own opiate-like substances
> > >and uses them as neurotransmitters. These substances include
> > >endorphins, enkephalins, and dynorphin, often collectively known as
> > >endogenous opioids. Endogenous opioids modulate our reactions to
> > >painful stimuli. They also regulate vital functions such as hunger
> > >and thirst and are involved in mood control, immune response, and
> > >other processes.
> > >
> > >The reason that opiates such as heroin and morphine affect us so
> > >powerfully is that these exogenous substances bind to the same
> > >receptors as our endogenous opioids. There are three kinds of
> > >receptors widely distributed throughout the brain: mu, delta, and
> > >kappa receptors.
> > >
> > >These receptors, through second messengers, influence the likelihood
> > >that ion channels will open, which in certain cases reduces the
> > >excitability of neurons. This reduced excitability is the likely
> > >source of the euphoric effect of opiates and appears to be mediated
> > >by the mu and delta receptors.
> > >
> > >This euphoric effect also appears to involve another mechanism in
> > >which the GABA-inhibitory interneurons of the ventral tegmental area
> > >come into play. By attaching to their mu receptors, exogenous
> > >opioids reduce the amount of GABA released (see animation).
> > >Normally, GABA reduces the amount of dopamine released in the
> > >nucleus accumbens. By inhibiting this inhibitor, the opiates
> > >ultimately increase the amount of dopamine produced and the amount
> > >of pleasure felt.
> > >
> > >Chronic consumption of opiates inhibits the production of cAMP, but
> > >this inhibition is offset in the long run by other cAMP production
> > >mechanisms. When no opiates are available, this increased cAMP
> > >production capacity comes to the fore and results in neural
> > >hyperactivity and the sensation of craving the drug.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >——–
> > >  Make FREE PC-to-PC calls with MSN Messenger. Get it now!
> > >/]=———————————————————————=
> > >[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands:
> > >http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
> > >\]=———————————————————————=
> > >[/
> > >
> > >
> > >——–
> > >  Find just what you’re after with the new, more precise MSN Search
> > >- try it now!
> > >/]=———————————————————————=
> > >[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands:
> > >http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
> > >\]=———————————————————————=
> > >[/
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >/]=————————————————————–
> > ——-=[\
> > >[%] Ibogaine List Commands:
> > >http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
> > >
> > >\]=————————————————————–
> > ——-=[/
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Be one of the first to try Windows Live Mail
> > /]=—————————————————————
> > ——=[\
> > [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html
> > [%]
> > \]=—————————————————————
> > ——=[/
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Play Trivia with MSN Messenger for a chance to win an XBOXT 360
> > prize pack!
> > /]=—————————————————————
> > ——=[\
> > [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html
> > [%]
> > \]=—————————————————————
> > ——=[/
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > /]=—————————————————————
> > ——=[\
> >  [%] Ibogaine List Commands:
> > http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
> >
> > \]=—————————————————————
> > ——=[/
> >
> >
>
>
>   /]=———————————————————————=[\
>  [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
>   \]=———————————————————————=[/
>
>

See if you’ve won, play MSN Search and Win /]=———————————————————————=[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%] \]=———————————————————————=[/

From: “Sara Glatt” <sara119@xs4all.nl>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] OT from methadone list – Herman Joseph on stigma and methadone
Date: April 4, 2006 at 12:54:26 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

not totally, I have started only it is not very exciting reading and so I
stoped.but I wonder what that nine years old girl would feel like if
someone
have told her that it was her responsiblity for everything that happend to
her, and that millions of people thinks “It ok , it’s what Allah wants”.

if you are brain washed how can you become responsible for it?

Sara

Sara have you read the Koran/?
Guy
—–Original Message—–
From: Sara Glatt [mailto:sara119@xs4all.nl]
Sent: 02 April 2006 16:29
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] OT from methadone list – Herman Joseph on stigma
and
methadone

“I am 100% responsible for everything that happens to me.” Nick Wrote,

I think that people in a confused mind setting can not be responsible for
everything that happens to them.

How the above is valid in the below info., nine years old girl,huh, and
the rest. well they are not drug addicts but religion is an opiate of the
people, when there is no religion then drug use become a ritual and a
religion.

These are just some of the facts that Muslims have been keeping secret,
but they are
enough to make any reasonable person doubt the validity of Islam. Muhammad
was
guilty of countless murders and of torturing his victims. He robbed
caravans and
participated in the slave-trade. His persecution of the Jews bordered on
genocide.
His polygamy went beyond that which even his own revelations permitted
(though he
did receive a revelation saying that this was okay for him). One of his
wives was a
nine-year-old girl, whose earliest duties in Muhammad’s house included the
constant
task of washing the semen stains off his clothes. At times he believed he
was
demon-possessed or under the effect of magic. He was known to be suicidal.
He
admittedly received a message from Satan and delivered it to the people as
if it
were from God. He declared that women have half the intellectual ability
that men
have, that it is okay for men to beat their wives, that most of the
inhabitants of
hell are women, and that, even if a woman somehow makes it to heaven, her
eternity
will consist of standing in a corner, waiting for men to sexually enjoy
her.[21]

These details about Muhammad raise a very important question: What does a
prophet
have to do before Muslims will be willing to question whether he is truly
the
greatest moral example in history? Normally, when we say that someone is a
moral
person, we mean that he doesn’t commit acts such as robbery and murder.
Yet Muhammad
did all these things and much more. It appears, then, that Muslims are
using the
term “moral” in a very unique way. In this uniquely Muslim sense of the
term, the
word “moral” is defined as “whatever Muhammad does.” Thus, if Muhammad
were to chop
off the heads of hundreds of people (which he did), this act would still
be defined
as a moral act, since Muhammad did it, and anything Muhammad does is, by
definition,
moral.

But this raises another important question. If God’s greatest prophet is
free to
take part in murder, robbery, genocide, and slave-trading, can we really
point a
finger at people like Osama bin Laden and Saddam Hussein and say that they
are evil?
They killed many innocents, but so did Muhammad. Saddam tortured countless
people,
but so did Muhammad. In fact, one could make a case that Osama bin Laden
is morally
superior to Muhammad, for, while bin Laden killed thousands of people, he
didn’t
sell their wives and children into slavery, or have sex with a little
girl, or marry
more than a dozen women.

The truth about Muhammad has been one of the world’s best-kept secrets.
For
centuries, it has been virtually impossible to raise objections about the
character
of Muhammad in Muslim countries, for anyone who raised such objections
would
(following the example set by Muhammad himself) immediately be killed.
Outside the
Muslim world, there has been little interest in Islam, and those who have
been
interested have typically relied on modern Muslim reports about Muhammad,
such as
the above passage from Mawdudi. But things have changed. Now many people
are
interested in Islam, and Muslims aren’t able to silence everyone.
Moreover, with the
advent of the Internet, it is now impossible to keep Muhammad’s life a
secret. The
facts about the founder of Islam are spreading very rapidly, and Muslims
are
frantically scurrying to defend their faith. But the information
superhighway is
paving over the ignorance that has for centuries been the stronghold of
Islamic
dogma. In the end, Islam will fall, for the entire structure is built upon
the
belief that Muhammad was the greatest moral example in history, and this
belief is
demonstrably false.

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html
[%]

\]=———————————————————————=[/

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html
[%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: “Nick Sandberg” <nick227@tiscali.co.uk>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Opiates and Compel
Date: April 4, 2006 at 12:40:46 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

BTW, I was just being light-hearted when I originally wrote

“Personally, my position is…I think rising awareness is GOOD. I would love to see more people in groups, going through their stuff, becoming more aware of their personal interior dynamic, and moving forward in life. But, sadly, I’m not in a position to compel people to do this”

To me it’s a funny thing to write. I’m not in a position to compel anyone to do anything. And it would hardly work to drag people off the street straight into the group room, though kind of a fun idea. I just found it kind of fun to put it out like this really. Intriguing that it seems to trigger such a reaction in some people.

Nick

—–Original Message—–
From: Eye of the Bhogi [mailto:freedomroot@gmail.com]
Sent: 01 April 2006 17:06
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Opiates and Compel

Hmmm.  What’s interesting to me about parsing the word “compel” in reference to coercive forms of therapy or detoxification or whatever is that there is also that interior emotional state perceived as a “compulsion” to use that is such a benchmark of the addictive state.   So the external effort to force change might be understood on an energetic level as a response to that driving “hunger”.

Not saying that compelling attendance at meetings or taking antabuse or naltrexone or whatever is likely to work.  Nor minimizing the likelihood that such efforts could cause a backlash reaction mess of a result.

But pointing out that such pressure also flows from an effort to balance or counterbalance or something Chi-Qi-Prana-like.   Its not purely an extension of the order-chaos duel we see enacted in the War on Drugs and its political relatives.

peace and root-toot-to-too-to-youuuuu!  rachel

From: “Eye of the Bhogi” <freedomroot@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Opiates and Compel
Date: April 1, 2006 at 11:05:59 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hmmm.  What’s interesting to me about parsing the word “compel” in reference to coercive forms of therapy or detoxification or whatever is that there is also that interior emotional state perceived as a “compulsion” to use that is such a benchmark of the addictive state.   So the external effort to force change might be understood on an energetic level as a response to that driving “hunger”.

Not saying that compelling attendance at meetings or taking antabuse or naltrexone or whatever is likely to work.  Nor minimizing the likelihood that such efforts could cause a backlash reaction mess of a result.

But pointing out that such pressure also flows from an effort to balance or counterbalance or something Chi-Qi-Prana-like.   Its not purely an extension of the order-chaos duel we see enacted in the War on Drugs and its political relatives.

peace and root-toot-to-too-to-youuuuu!  rachel

From: Crooked Eye <iboganaut420@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] OT! Eating cattle or food
Date: April 4, 2006 at 8:11:25 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Fair enough…

Preston Peet <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com> wrote:
Well, I could ask the same thing about nipples on guys (why have ’em if we can’t give milk?) and about appendixes (why have ’em if they only end up either bursting or doin’ nothing at all good or bad) and that would lead to the answer “evolution” perhaps, that we can evolve out of inhumane habits and addictions such as eating meat now that we really don’t have to. Of course, this isn’t for everyone and I don’t expect to convince a single other person- but I do feel I must state my opinion on it since a couple of other posted pro-meat eating posts. (Also, because there seems to be a regular tendency on the part of those who eat meat to make light of the opinions of those of us who don’t, as though our compassion, or our repulsion, isn’t valid or real, and that irks me when I do see it.)
I guess I simply take that “treat others as I wanna be treated” so far as to include the other animals sharing the planet with me. I’d prefer they don’t eat me, so I won’t eat them either.

—–
“If God dropped acid, would he see people?”  ~Steven Wright

Peace, love and lotsof respect.
Preston Peet
ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor Underground- the Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations, Astonishing Archaeology and Hidden History
Editor Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Columnist HighTimes mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.
—– Original Message —–
From: Crooked Eye
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Tuesday, April 04, 2006 7:32 AM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] OT! Eating cattle or food

What about B-12?  Take vitamins I suppose?  Why even have incisors if we shouldn’t eat meat?  I don’t care if you don’t wanna, it’s more for me, but I fail to see why eating animals is wrong..  I would definitely prefer organic food, but unfortunately, not everyone can afford to buy such expensive meals…  Also, I am not big on pets either…  We are ALL animals…

Preston Peet <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com> wrote:
for me eating meat in a society where it’s unnecessary merely promotes the
fear/bloodthirsty addiction so prevalent in the Western world. I can see
eating meat in a society where there are no alternatives, but where I live
it’s easy to not eat meat, and I’m glad.
I still do dairy and eggs, but can’t eat anything that might lick it’s
fellow beings, or nuzzle them, or communicate in any way, shape or form with
one another, even chickens (which I’ve been told are ok to eat because
“they’re stupid.” If that were the only criteria for being ok to eat, I’d be
a cannibal). Again, this is only my own viewpoint, but there seems to be
something unenlightened, to me, how some folk can have “pets” but call
cattle mere “food,” making no connection to the living, breathing, thinking
creatures sharing the planet with us.

Butt, and it’s a great big butt, I can’t really fault anyone for their
eating habits beyond stating how I personally feel, particularly about
factory farming, inhumane treatment of our “food” and the wonton slaughter
of living creatures when it isn’t necessary for our survival, only to feed
our addiction to blood and flesh these days (Of course one couuld take this
to extreme and tell me plants are also living, but I limit my empathy and
eating ban to beings with eys I guess).
That’s because I’m…pro-choice at heart.

—–
“If God dropped acid, would he see people?” ~Steven Wright

Peace, love and lotsof respect.
Preston Peet
ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor Underground- the Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations,
Astonishing Archaeology and Hidden History
Editor Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Columnist HighTimes mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —–
From: Crooked Eye
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Tuesday, April 04, 2006 3:53 AM
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Whats a Republican?

Cow’s are tasty… If we aren’t supposed to eat animals, then why are they
made out of meat? 😀 I fail how to see eating cows equates to racism… I
eat a lot of cows, but I have a mixed family… If it makes you feel any
better we eat a lot of chickens, too.. I love turkey, the tryptophan makes
me sleepy…

Alan Hehe wrote:
Don’t call me Baby…well, you can…since you’re not close enough for me
to do anything about it! Plus, that’s a freedom, too…Just like my ability
to talk about pro-choice. As for your information, no, I don’t think the way
the abortion system is set up–but I absolutely believe in having the
right…And no, you don’t have 9 months to decide whether to have the rug
rat or not–there is a cut-off, a limit to when abortions can be performed.
And so you think, because cows aren’t pets, or aren’t ‘cute’, then it’s
okay to torture them? And to cut the balls of bulls off without any
anesthetic? To make chickens live in a cage so small they can barely turn
around? And George Bush–wanting to save lives! LOL! That’s the biggest joke
I’ve ever heard! But it figures; you’re not special..alot of the people in
this country are brain-washed by the constant disinformation they are
fed….Why do you think there are a hundred commercials warning of the
dangers of marijuana, one of the least harmful drugs known to man, but yet
maybe one out of those hundred about the truly dangerous drugs, like H or
Coke?
And you don’t have to be a hindu to have compassion for animals other
than cats and dogs, you dumb-ass red-neck! In some places they eat
dogs…would that be okay if they ate your dog? You know, I’m totally
wasting my time talking to you, I can already tell that you are way
undereducated, extremely prejudiced. Cows are just food. Are blacks just
niggers, too? God, I can’t stand fuckin’ red-necks like you, especially the
ones that actually think they’re smart. Once you start doing away with
freedoms, it’s all down-hill. Who’s going to decide what’s right and wrong?
You?! I would happily put a hollow-point 45 shell into my head if that
possibility existed..of course G.W.B. is quite the redneck himself, which is
why you probably like him. First of all, HE’s not fighting for anything. I
have respect for the soldiers; they don’t decide the mission, they just do
what they’re told. And how many babies do you think die while we were waging
a war we were totally lied to about? Or is that okay? You think the babies
over there even know what a terrorist is? This world is already
over-populated..if people like you ran things, the world would run out of
resources within a decade! The oh so precious children! Everyone starts out
as a child..some people, like you, remain one, in their minds, their whole
life. But those sweet children often grow up to be killers and rapists, and
often for no apparent reason! Strong belief does only one thing: close your
mind. Boy, that ibogaine is gonna have fun with you!!!!! Cows are just food!
Well, we’re just food, too…if a grizzly decides you look good! God, what
egotism! You claim to be a Christian (I do not) but you must have misssed
the part about not judging lest you be judged yourself…And I bet ibo’s
gonna drive that one home with a psychoactive sledgehammer! You’ve got your
response, but I really no longer wish to talk with you. I’ve spent too much
time arguing with all the fascists on this list, instead of hanging out with
the cool, in the know ,people: by that meaning knowing that the whole Govt.
is totally corrupt, actually controlled by a few wealthy and extremely
powerful people, and they constantly just feed us disinformation, while
manipulating the world through economic control, etc, and alot of other
things you wouldn’t understand. BYE< NOW, Billy BOY. Go get a burger!

From: “Billy J”
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Whats a Republican?
Date: Tue, 04 Apr 2006 02:19:25 -0400
>Hear this peace and take it to your Heart FRIEND.
>1st if we go back to Killing kids for the sins of their fathers
>(Child of a Rapist) Do you think that is more civilized then Raising
>Cattle for food,(Cattle are food “not Pets”) although you may be
>from India or somewhere that they worship your cows and even there
>fecal matter I hear! Now if your are at that junkger(Place) then I
>will have to say -well Al, Bless you, but when was the last time you
>had your precious cow go to war for YOUR FREEDOMS that I am sure you
>are enjoying- Yes?
> Allan , do you really love cows (the 4 legged ones that is) or
>are you in your 2nd or 3rd reincarnation and you where once a cow
>and you have come into this wierd mooing stage and you just could
>not figure it out.
> Ok That is sarcasm – Sorry< I’ll get serious.
>Oh Ya Your aborting a fetus-, and yes I know that in the USof A
>being the most civilized Nation that has usually voted anti-
>Christian ( just in case somebody didn’t let Everybody do what FEELs
>GOOD)
>Ya you can Have sex with anybody you want and then if a girl gets
>pregnant, or do you call it fetus something, oh well so shes
>pregnant you have 9 months to decide whether or not you what the
>little BLOB Because your fetus can be kicking up a storm and as long
>as you can keep its stupid( oh it,s brain isn’t functioning yet
>,right) well as long as you can keep its head inside the grown up
>fetus ( that would be the female, The pregnant one, knocked up one ,
>dumb one what ever you would call someone like that ( Maybe MOM)
>well just reach in and CRUSH ITS SCULL and or STICK A SYRINGE INTO
>THe Back of it HEAD JUST UNTIL ITS STOPS PUTTINGN UP A FIGHT, AND
>they do fight Allan, just go and ask your abortion doctor.– PARTIAL
>BIRTH ABORTION– VERY NICE–
> oH YA AND YOU KNOW WHAT ALLY BABY THAT STUPID WAR MOGER THAT YOU
>HAVE AS A PRESIDENT WOULD LIKE NOTHING MORE THAN TO SAVE PEOPLE BUT
>ALL YOU PEOPLE THAT GOD GAVE YOU FREE CHOICE HAVE DECIDED TO VOTE
>FOR THE REAL KILLERS-
> Have you any clue how many of your fetuses are done away with
>each year in the USA alone,, Allan Baby– way way more in 1 year
>than have been killed in ALL the World wars— How many do you think
>are rape and how many are just another form of birth control,, Your
>Planned Parenthood is a multi-Billion dollar industry that fights
>for you to have the freedom to get rid of your Babies- But They do
>not do it for free– They are rich.One more thing if we can justify
>killing because you THINK they don’t feel pain- Why not line up all
>us addicts right after a good whack and while we are feeling no pain
>BANG-
>Save a lot of tax dollars- The Meth Clinics would be Pissed though.
>
>Love Ya!
>
>Just Don’t say it is OK To Kill My Children- Or Yours
>
>B
>
>—-Original Message Follows—-
>From: “Alan Hehe”
>Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
>To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
>Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] RE: [Pornography,psychology,Choice,force,) 2
>cents
>Date: Tue, 04 Apr 2006 01:25:21 -0400
>MIME-Version: 1.0
>Received: from tomts30-srv.bellnexxia.net ([209.226.175.104]) by
>bay0-pamc1-f3.bay0.hotmail.com with Microsoft
>SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Mon, 3 Apr 2006 22:27:22 -0700
>Received: from toip4.bellnexxia.net ([209.226.175.87]) by
>tomts30-srv.bellnexxia.net (InterMail vM.5.01.06.13
>201-253-122-130-113-20050324) with ESMTP id
><20060404052721.IXFI18550.tomts30-srv.bellnexxia.net@toip4.bellnexxia.net>
> for ; Tue, 4 Apr 2006 01:27:21
>-0400
>Received: from tanelorn.mindvox.com (HELO mail.mindvox.com)
>([64.124.179.118]) by toip4.bellnexxia.net with ESMTP; 04 Apr 2006
>01:27:16 -0400
>Received: (qmail 1073 invoked by uid 513); 4 Apr 2006 01:27:15 -0400
>Received: (qmail 1067 invoked by uid 514); 4 Apr 2006 01:27:15 -0400
>X-Message-Info: moY6YVwXQ46hfM+PXD+r03SFMVOY3E1daJYU/Sm1Nkw=
>Mailing-List: contact ibogaine-help@mindvox.com; run by ezmlm
>Precedence: bulk
>X-No-Archive: yes
>List-Post:
>List-Help:
>List-Unsubscribe:
>List-Subscribe:
>Delivered-To: mailing list ibogaine@mindvox.com
>X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.1 required=4.0
>X-Antivirus-MYDOMAIN-Mail-From: a.h.veil68@hotmail.com via
>tanelorn.mindvox.com
>X-Antivirus-MYDOMAIN: 1.25-st-qms
>(Clear:RC:0(65.54.224.26):SA:0(-2.1/4.0):. Processed in 8.08646 secs
>Process 1055)
>Return-Path:
>ibogaine-return-23280-billjohnson6=sympatico.ca@mindvox.com
>X-OriginalArrivalTime: 04 Apr 2006 05:27:22.0868 (UTC)
>FILETIME=[7363CB40:01C657A8]
>
>
>
> I gotta take a piece of this one. Okay, Mr. Anti-choice, let me
>ask you this: do you eat meat? If not, then good for you. If so,
>have you ever though about the actual, truly painful, totally
>inhumane treatment we put animals through? And usually don’t think
>twice about it…It’s people like George Bush who make me wish
>sometimes that God would hurl an asteroid at us! It’s “God forbid
>one human foetus (who does not feel a thing if the abortion is done
>in a timely manner, according to the latest research, because their
>nervous system isn’t nearly fully developed) should perish, no
>matter if it was caused by a rape or is probably going to be born
>into alot of suffering–but while I’m on my high horse, cut me a
>piece o that cow off and cook it up! It’s sheer egotism that we
>believe that humans are so damned
>important, but it’s okay if we torture animals, ruin the planet, and
>make other people adhere to our beliefs!!! We’re not that important!
>And if you believe in a God and the soul, then you know that–if the
>foetus even has a soul yet, which I don’t believe it does..I believe
>the soul enters with the first breath, and leaves with the
>last–that baby is just going back into the arms of God! There is no
>death! And since they don’t experience pain, all it becomes is
>something for people like you to feel self righteous about!
>Personally, I think everyone should smoke pot, and would benefit
>from it (except for a few cases), but how would you like it if I
>MADE you smoke it? That is, if you don’t, and don’t like it. Or
>let’s say you eat meat, but I think it’s just as evil to do that as
>to allow abortions, so I outlawed meat–would that be okay with you?
>And the cliff analogy is just stupid–not
>the same thing at all. But yes, I think if a person is truly
>miserable, and wants to die, I would try to talk them out of it, but
>I would never stop them by force. That’s called LACK OF FREEDOM. And
>if we didn’t make mistakes, how would we ever learn? To be told
>something is wrong is one thing..you can tell a person, fire will
>burn you..but until they get burned, they will not truly understand,
>and that’s what life is all about–learning. No, I don’t like to see
>foetus’ abortions–I think prevention is the answer….But
>sometimes, I believe it is ‘the best choice’. If everyone like you
>had their way, there really would be NO ROOM AT ALL left!!! We’re
>already sooo over-populated! It’s like I heard some character say in
>a movie recently..”everybody’s kids are so special…it makes you
>wonder where all the normal adults come from”. Even God believes in
>freedom of choice! That’s why he gave
>us FREE WILL. You’re a Republican, aren’t you? And you probably
>think that war-mongering asshole of a President is the best-thing
>since sliced bread, eh? It’s okay to kill, as long as it’s not a
>precious child…even though that child may grow up to be The Son of
>Sam! well…”take me by the ham, no good, no evil, no give a
>damn!” And the Govt. is lying to you! About just about everything.
>Peace, love, and freedom. Life is too mysterious to take it so
>serious!
>
>
>
>
>
>
>From: “Billy J”
>Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
>To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
>Subject: [Ibogaine] RE: [Pornography,psychology,Choice,force,) 2
>cents
>Date: Sun, 02 Apr 2006 21:45:39 -0400
> >Well It sounds like this place is really mixing it up so I would
> >like to add a little REALITY TO YOU PRO CHOICERS, I am sure glad I
> >was not an abortion’ althought I have had my moments.
> >Yes My Mom was a young Mom and if she had a choice I think that I
> >would have no Grandkids, or be babbleing on here.
> > I too have an attitude, It is about the only thing in this
> >world that I really have control over.
> >Tiger– How well did you do with making ALL your own Choices,
> >Instead of doing
>what your were told to do? Not meant to be a shot
> >at you personally, but I am with the Right or Wrong crowd- No such
> >thing as grey.
> > I do know that some people may have grown up believing that
>wrong
> >was right and right was wrong, but I Think that I pretty much knew
> >when I was stepping out of line and doing wrong.
> >It is (as most believe) My God , no not God, but My worldly given
> >Right- to do wrong- It’s my life and if I want to screw it up then
> >stay out of my way. And you know what I had a lot of sooo called
> >friends that did just that WATCHED, AS i WAS Killing myself and
> >ruining a lot of lifes.
> >But O O O never no no no neverdare step on somebodys toes because
> >you know what they have a choice, Just like those poor little
>Crack
> >%$^&%$ Women that degrade themselves( and me
>myself) due to
> >everybody. But Never No No Never dare tell somebody or force
>someone
> >to get some help that they may never ever make it to on their own,
> >due to something called “Pride” “Shame” “Guilt”
> >Whatever holds them back. They may end up DEAD and it would be
>their
> >own fault, because you know how STRONG us druggies are, and if
>that
> >person dies because he had a choice to get help and refused or
>just
> >couldn’t make it on his/her own and needed YOU (of course they
> >didn’t tell you that).
> >I am sorry but I BELIEVE that if you Love Someone or even care a
> >little, and you see them walking off a cliff and YOU have an
> >opportunity to stop them, and you don’t- Can you truelly say it
>was
> >their own fault?
> >Pornography- I never met too many Normal people that would find it
> >neccesary to take their
>cloths off for the public to see. Totally
> >wrong and if you had your own kids you might not think it too cool
> >having your buddy beating off while checking out your little girl.
> >Not nice eh Billy but P–sy T-ts are not meant for anyone except
>who
> >they belong to and their mate.
> >
> >Bye For Now, That stuff is about the biggest trigger going for any
> >downfall
> >
> >Bill
> >—-Original Message Follows—-
> >From: “Nick Sandberg”
> >Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
> >To:
> >Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Opiates
> >Date: Sun, 2 Apr 2006 10:24:07 +0100
> >MIME-Version: 1.0
> >Received: from tomts21-srv.bellnexxia.net ([209.226.175.183]) by
> >bay0-pamc1-f11.bay0.hotmail.com with Microsoft
> >SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Sun, 2 Apr 2006 05:38:59
>-0700
> >Received: from toip5.bellnexxia.net ([209.226.175.88]) by
> >tomts21-srv.bellnexxia.net (InterMail vM.5.01.06.13
> >201-253-122-130-113-20050324) with ESMTP id
> ><20060402123858.HZPV14030.tomts21-srv.bellnexxia.net@toip5.bellnexxia.net>
> > for ; Sun, 2 Apr 2006
>08:38:58
> >-0400
> >Received: from tanelorn.mindvox.com (HELO mail.mindvox.com)
> >([64.124.179.118]) by toip5.bellnexxia.net with ESMTP; 02 Apr
>2006
> >08:38:58 -0400
> >Received: (qmail 16967 invoked by uid 513); 2 Apr 2006 08:38:55
> >-0400
> >Received: (qmail 16961 invoked by uid
>514); 2 Apr 2006 08:38:55
> >-0400
> >X-Message-Info: moY6YVwXQ44WAJnUvaOEtK2hXKGagKAsshDbZwj7pSc=
> >Mailing-List: contact ibogaine-help@mindvox.com; run by ezmlm
> >Precedence: bulk
> >X-No-Archive: yes
> >List-Post:
> >List-Help:
> >List-Unsubscribe:
> >List-Subscribe:
> >Delivered-To: mailing list ibogaine@mindvox.com
> >X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.3 required=4.0
> >X-Antivirus-MYDOMAIN-Mail-From: nick227@tiscali.co.uk via
> >tanelorn.mindvox.com
> >X-Antivirus-MYDOMAIN: 1.25-st-qms
> >(Clear:RC:0(212.74.114.37):SA:0(-2.3/4.0):. Processed in 2.781926
> >secs Process 16953)
> >X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true
> >X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result:
>AQAAAJ0kL0SDE4UI
> >X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.6604 (9.0.2911.0)
> >Return-Path:
> >ibogaine-return-23233-billjohnson6=sympatico.ca@mindvox.com
> >X-OriginalArrivalTime: 02 Apr 2006 12:38:59.0373 (UTC)
> >FILETIME=[6A155DD0:01C65652]
> >
> >
> > —–Original Message—–
> > From: Tiger Lisa [mailto:tigerlisa@gmail.com]
> > Sent: 01 April 2006 13:44
> > To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
> > Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Opiates
> >
> >
> > Dear Nick,
> > Here’ the part I don’t understand.
> >
> > You wrote,
> > Personally, my position is…I think rising awareness is GOOD.
>I
> >would
> >love to see more people in groups, going through their stuff,
> >becoming more
> >aware of their
>personal interior dynamic, and moving forward in
> >life. But,
> >sadly, I’m not in a position to compel people to do this.
> >
> > Why would you ever want to COMPEL anyone to do ANYTHING? Do you
> >really
> >believe that would be useful, effective, helpful? Do you think
> >people
> >actually benefit from, and grow from, being FORCED to do anything?
> >
> > That is a parent-child model of interaction (and not a
> >particularly
> >skillful one, IMO), and it’s going to reinforce childlike,
> >rebellious and
> >victim behavior (NOT self-awareness!) in the one so compelled, as
> >well as
> >reinforcing bullying behavior and disprespectful and righteous
> >attitudes
> >(NOT increased compassion or awareness) in the one doing the
> >compelling. A
> >”lose-lose” interaction–no one
>wins!
> >
> > Myself, I believe CHOICE is the name of the game. With choice
> >comes
> >responsibility, self-responsibility and a loss of the victim
> >consciousness
> >that drives continued reactive and unconscious behavior.
> >
> > So in a nutshell: Saying something (like awarenss) is GOOD is

=== message truncated ===

Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. Make PC-to-Phone Calls to the US (and 30+ countries) for 2�/min or less.

New Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. Call regular phones from your PC and save big.

From: Crooked Eye <iboganaut420@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] OT! Eating cattle or food
Date: April 4, 2006 at 8:10:10 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Sounds good to me, for some reason I stopped eating pig for the most part after Iboga…  Go figure, cause I sure has hell ain’t religious…

Preston Peet <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com> wrote:
Well, I don’t see much sign of plants raising their young at all, or being
kind to one another, or huddling together for warmth, or blinking, so
perhaps not having a face does mean something in my view.
To me anyway.
Also, btw, I came to this decision about my eating habits after my first
ibogaine session, after which I ate one chicken meal the first night I was
able to get up and go out to dinner and decided right then that I no long
enjoyed nor wanted to support the killing of other animals for my food.
Others I can’t change, but this is one small thing I can personally do to
help create what I feel is a little piece of a positive world (and my
sniping at Nick isn’t condusive to this positive world I’m trying to build,
so I suppose I really should, and do, sincerely, apologize for that snippet
at Nick…even though I still heartily disagree with much of what he says
all the time).

—–
“If God dropped acid, would he see people?” ~Steven Wright

Peace, love and lotsof respect.
Preston Peet
ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor Underground- the Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations,
Astonishing Archaeology and Hidden History
Editor Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Columnist HighTimes mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —–
From: Crooked Eye
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Tuesday, April 04, 2006 7:34 AM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] OT! Eating cattle or food

IS eating plants okay cause they don’t have faces?

Crooked Eye wrote:
What about B-12? Take vitamins I suppose? Why even have incisors if we
shouldn’t eat meat? I don’t care if you don’t wanna, it’s more for me, but
I fail to see why eating animals is wrong.. I would definitely prefer
organic food, but unfortunately, not everyone can afford to buy such
expensive meals… Also, I am not big on pets either… We are ALL
animals…

Preston Peet wrote:
for me eating meat in a society where it’s unnecessary merely promotes the
fear/bloodthirsty addiction so prevalent in the Western world. I can see
eating meat in a society where there are no alternatives, but where I live
it’s easy to not eat meat, and I’m glad.
I still do dairy and eggs, but can’t eat anything that might lick it’s
fellow beings, or nuzzle them, or communicate in any way, shape or form with
one another, even chickens (which I’ve been told are ok to eat because
“they’re stupid.” If that were the only criteria for being ok to eat, I’d be
a cannibal). Again, this is only my own viewpoint, but there seems to be
something unenlightened, to me, how some folk can have “pets” but call
cattle mere “food,” making no connection to the living, breathing, thinking
creatures sharing the planet with us.

Butt, and it’s a great big butt, I can’t really fault anyone for their
eating habits beyond stating how I personally feel, particularly about
factory farming, inhumane treatment of our “food” and the wonton slaughter
of living creatures when it isn’t necessary for our survival, only to feed
our addiction to blood and flesh these days (Of course one couuld take this
to extreme and tell me plants are also living, but I limit my empathy and
eating ban to beings with eys I guess).
That’s because I’m…pro-choice at heart.

—–
“If God dropped acid, would he see people?” ~Steven Wright

Peace, love and lotsof respect.
Preston Peet
ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor Underground- the Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations,
Astonishing Archaeology and Hidden History
Editor Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Columnist HighTimes mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —–
From: Crooked Eye
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Tuesday, April 04, 2006 3:53 AM
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Whats a Republican?

Cow’s are tasty… If we aren’t supposed to eat animals, then why are they
made out of meat? 😀 I fail how to see eating cows equates to racism… I
eat a lot of cows, but I have a mixed family… If it makes you feel any
better we eat a lot of chickens, too.. I love turkey, the tryptophan makes
me sleepy…

Alan Hehe wrote:
Don’t call me Baby…well, you can…since you’re not close enough for me
to do anything about it! Plus, that’s a freedom, too…Just like my ability
to talk about pro-choice. As for your information, no, I don’t think the way
the abortion system is set up–but I absolutely believe in having the
right…And no, you don’t have 9 months to decide whether to have the rug
rat or not–there is a cut-off, a limit to when abortions can be performed.
And so you think, because cows aren’t pets, or aren’t ‘cute’, then it’s
okay to torture them? And to cut the balls of bulls off without any
anesthetic? To make chickens live in a cage so small they can barely turn
around? And George Bush–wanting to save lives! LOL! That’s the biggest joke
I’ve ever heard! But it figures; you’re not special..alot of the people in
this country are brain-washed by the constant disinformation they are
fed….Why do you think there are a hundred commercials warning of the
dangers of marijuana, one of the least harmful drugs known to man, but yet
maybe one out of those hundred about the truly dangerous drugs, like H or
Coke?
And you don’t have to be a hindu to have compassion for animals other
than cats and dogs, you dumb-ass red-neck! In some places they eat
dogs…would that be okay if they ate your dog? You know, I’m totally
wasting my time talking to you, I can already tell that you are way
undereducated, extremely prejudiced. Cows are just food. Are blacks just
niggers, too? God, I can’t stand fuckin’ red-necks like you, especially the
ones that actually think they’re smart. Once you start doing away with
freedoms, it’s all down-hill. Who’s going to decide what’s right and wrong?
You?! I would happily put a hollow-point 45 shell into my head if that
possibility existed..of course G.W.B. is quite the redneck himself, which is
why you probably like him. First of all, HE’s not fighting for anything. I
have respect for the soldiers; they don’t decide the mission, they just do
what they’re told. And how many babies do you think die while we were waging
a war we were totally lied to about? Or is that okay? You think the babies
over there even know what a terrorist is? This world is already
over-populated..if people like you ran things, the world would run out of
resources within a decade! The oh so precious children! Everyone starts out
as a child..some people, like you, remain one, in their minds, their whole
life. But those sweet children often grow up to be killers and rapists, and
often for no apparent reason! Strong belief does only one thing: close your
mind. Boy, that ibogaine is gonna have fun with you!!!!! Cows are just food!
Well, we’re just food, too…if a grizzly decides you look good! God, what
egotism! You claim to be a Christian (I do not) but you must have misssed
the part about not judging lest you be judged yourself…And I bet ibo’s
gonna drive that one home with a psychoactive sledgehammer! You’ve got your
response, but I really no longer wish to talk with you. I’ve spent too much
time arguing with all the fascists on this list, instead of hanging out with
the cool, in the know ,people: by that meaning knowing that the whole Govt.
is totally corrupt, actually controlled by a few wealthy and extremely
powerful people, and they constantly just feed us disinformation, while
manipulating the world through economic control, etc, and alot of other
things you wouldn’t understand. BYE< NOW, Billy BOY. Go get a burger!

From: “Billy J”
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Whats a Republican?
Date: Tue, 04 Apr 2006 02:19:25 -0400
>Hear this peace and take it to your Heart FRIEND.
>1st if we go back to Killing kids for the sins of their fathers
>(Child of a Rapist) Do you think that is more civilized then Raising
>Cattle for food,(Cattle are food “not Pets”) although you may be
>from India or somewhere that they worship your cows and even there
>fecal matter I hear! Now if your are at that junkger(Place) then I
>will have to say -well Al, Bless you, but when was the last time you
>had your precious cow go to war for YOUR FREEDOMS that I am sure you
>are enjoying- Yes?
> Allan , do you really love cows (the 4 legged ones that is) or
>are you in your 2nd or 3rd reincarnation and you where once a cow
>and you have come into this wierd mooing stage and you just could
>not figure it out.
> Ok That is sarcasm – Sorry< I’ll get serious.
>Oh Ya Your aborting a fetus-, and yes I know that in the USof A
>being the most civilized Nation that has usually voted anti-
>Christian ( just in case somebody didn’t let Everybody do what FEELs
>GOOD)
>Ya you can Have sex with anybody you want and then if a girl gets
>pregnant, or do you call it fetus something, oh well so shes
>pregnant you have 9 months to decide whether or not you what the
>little BLOB Because your fetus can be kicking up a storm and as long
>as you can keep its stupid( oh it,s brain isn’t functioning yet
>,right) well as long as you can keep its head inside the grown up
>fetus ( that would be the female, The pregnant one, knocked up one ,
>dumb one what ever you would call someone like that ( Maybe MOM)
>well just reach in and CRUSH ITS SCULL and or STICK A SYRINGE INTO
>THe Back of it HEAD JUST UNTIL ITS STOPS PUTTINGN UP A FIGHT, AND
>they do fight Allan, just go and ask your abortion doctor.– PARTIAL
>BIRTH ABORTION– VERY NICE–
> oH YA AND YOU KNOW WHAT ALLY BABY THAT STUPID WAR MOGER THAT YOU
>HAVE AS A PRESIDENT WOULD LIKE NOTHING MORE THAN TO SAVE PEOPLE BUT
>ALL YOU PEOPLE THAT GOD GAVE YOU FREE CHOICE HAVE DECIDED TO VOTE
>FOR THE REAL KILLERS-
> Have you any clue how many of your fetuses are done away with
>each year in the USA alone,, Allan Baby– way way more in 1 year
>than have been killed in ALL the World wars— How many do you think
>are rape and how many are just another form of birth control,, Your
>Planned Parenthood is a multi-Billion dollar industry that fights
>for you to have the freedom to get rid of your Babies- But They do
>not do it for free– They are rich.One more thing if we can justify
>killing because you THINK they don’t feel pain- Why not line up all
>us addicts right after a good whack and while we are feeling no pain
>BANG-
>Save a lot of tax dollars- The Meth Clinics would be Pissed though.
>
>Love Ya!
>
>Just Don’t say it is OK To Kill My Children- Or Yours
>
>B
>
>—-Original Message Follows—-
>From: “Alan Hehe”
>Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
>To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
>Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] RE: [Pornography,psychology,Choice,force,) 2
>cents
>Date: Tue, 04 Apr 2006 01:25:21 -0400
>MIME-Version: 1.0
>Received: from tomts30-srv.bellnexxia.net ([209.226.175.104]) by
>bay0-pamc1-f3.bay0.hotmail.com with Microsoft
>SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Mon, 3 Apr 2006 22:27:22 -0700
>Received: from toip4.bellnexxia.net ([209.226.175.87]) by
>tomts30-srv.bellnexxia.net (InterMail vM.5.01.06.13
>201-253-122-130-113-20050324) with ESMTP id
><20060404052721.IXFI18550.tomts30-srv.bellnexxia.net@toip4.bellnexxia.net>
> for ; Tue, 4 Apr 2006 01:27:21
>-0400
>Received: from tanelorn.mindvox.com (HELO mail.mindvox.com)
>([64.124.179.118]) by toip4.bellnexxia.net with ESMTP; 04 Apr 2006
>01:27:16 -0400
>Received: (qmail 1073 invoked by uid 513); 4 Apr 2006 01:27:15 -0400
>Received: (qmail 1067 invoked by uid 514); 4 Apr 2006 01:27:15 -0400
>X-Message-Info: moY6YVwXQ46hfM+PXD+r03SFMVOY3E1daJYU/Sm1Nkw=
>Mailing-List: contact ibogaine-help@mindvox.com; run by ezmlm
>Precedence: bulk
>X-No-Archive: yes
>List-Post:
>List-Help:
>List-Unsubscribe:
>List-Subscribe:
>Delivered-To: mailing list ibogaine@mindvox.com
>X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.1 required=4.0
>X-Antivirus-MYDOMAIN-Mail-From: a.h.veil68@hotmail.com via
>tanelorn.mindvox.com
>X-Antivirus-MYDOMAIN: 1.25-st-qms
>(Clear:RC:0(65.54.224.26):SA:0(-2.1/4.0):. Processed in 8.08646 secs
>Process 1055)
>Return-Path:
>ibogaine-return-23280-billjohnson6=sympatico.ca@mindvox.com
>X-OriginalArrivalTime: 04 Apr 2006 05:27:22.0868 (UTC)
>FILETIME=[7363CB40:01C657A8]
>
>
>
> I gotta take a piece of this one. Okay, Mr. Anti-choice, let me
>ask you this: do you eat meat? If not, then good for you. If so,
>have you ever though about the actual, truly painful, totally
>inhumane treatment we put animals through? And usually don’t think
>twice about it…It’s people like George Bush who make me wish
>sometimes that God would hurl an asteroid at us! It’s “God forbid
>one human foetus (who does not feel a thing if the abortion is done
>in a timely manner, according to the latest research, because their
>nervous system isn’t nearly fully developed) should perish, no
>matter if it was caused by a rape or is probably going to be born
>into alot of suffering–but while I’m on my high horse, cut me a
>piece o that cow off and cook it up! It’s sheer egotism that we
>believe that humans are so damned
>important, but it’s okay if we torture animals, ruin the planet, and
>make other people adhere to our beliefs!!! We’re not that important!
>And if you believe in a God and the soul, then you know that–if the
>foetus even has a soul yet, which I don’t believe it does..I believe
>the soul enters with the first breath, and leaves with the
>last–that baby is just going back into the arms of God! There is no
>death! And since they don’t experience pain, all it becomes is
>something for people like you to feel self righteous about!
>Personally, I think everyone should smoke pot, and would benefit
>from it (except for a few cases), but how would you like it if I
>MADE you smoke it? That is, if you don’t, and don’t like it. Or
>let’s say you eat meat, but I think it’s just as evil to do that as
>to allow abortions, so I outlawed meat–would that be okay with you?
>And the cliff analogy is just stupid–not
>the same thing at all. But yes, I think if a person is truly
>miserable, and wants to die, I would try to talk them out of it, but
>I would never stop them by force. That’s called LACK OF FREEDOM. And
>if we didn’t make mistakes, how would we ever learn? To be told
>something is wrong is one thing..you can tell a person, fire will
>burn you..but until they get burned, they will not truly understand,
>and that’s what life is all about–learning. No, I don’t like to see
>foetus’ abortions–I think prevention is the answer….But
>sometimes, I believe it is ‘the best choice’. If everyone like you
>had their way, there really would be NO ROOM AT ALL left!!! We’re
>already sooo over-populated! It’s like I heard some character say in
>a movie recently..”everybody’s kids are so special…it makes you
>wonder where all the normal adults come from”. Even God believes in
>freedom of choice! That’s why he gave
>us FREE WILL. You’re a Republican, aren’t you? And you probably
>think that war-mongering asshole of a President is the best-thing
>since sliced bread, eh? It’s okay to kill, as long as it’s not a
>precious child…even though that child may grow up to be The Son of
>Sam! well…”take me by the ham, no good, no evil, no give a
>damn!” And the Govt. is lying to you! About just about everything.
>Peace, love, and freedom. Life is too mysterious to take it so
>serious!
>
>
>
>
>
>
>From: “Billy J”
>Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
>To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
>Subject: [Ibogaine] RE: [Pornography,psychology,Choice,force,) 2
>cents
>Date: Sun, 02 Apr 2006 21:45:39 -0400
> >Well It sounds like this place is really mixing it up so I would
> >like to add a little REALITY TO YOU PRO CHOICERS, I am sure glad I
> >was not an abortion’ althought I have had my moments.
> >Yes My Mom was a young Mom and if she had a choice I think that I
> >would have no Grandkids, or be babbleing on here.
> > I too have an attitude, It is about the only thing in this
> >world that I really have control over.
> >Tiger– How well did you do with making ALL your own Choices,
> >Instead of doing
>what your were told to do? Not meant to be a shot
> >at you personally, but I am with the Right or Wrong crowd- No such
> >thing as grey.
> > I do know that some people may have grown up believing that
>wrong
> >was right and right was wrong, but I Think that I pretty much knew
> >when I was stepping out of line and doing wrong.
> >It is (as most believe) My God , no not God, but My worldly given
> >Right- to do wrong- It’s my life and if I want to screw it up then
> >stay out of my way. And you know what I had a lot of sooo called
> >friends that did just that WATCHED, AS i WAS Killing myself and
> >ruining a lot of lifes.
> >But O O O never no no no neverdare step on somebodys toes because
> >you know what they have a choice, Just like those poor little
>Crack
> >%$^&%$ Women that degrade themselves( and me
>myself) due to
> >everybody. But Never No No Never dare tell somebody or force
>someone
> >to get some help that they may never ever make it to on their own,
> >due to something called “Pride” “Shame” “Guilt”
> >Whatever holds them back. They may end up DEAD and it would be
>their
> >own fault, because you know how STRONG us druggies are, and if
>that
> >person dies because he had a choice to get help and refused or
>just
> >couldn’t make it on his/her own and needed YOU (of course they
> >didn’t tell you that).
> >I am sorry but I BELIEVE that if you Love Someone or even care a
> >little, and you see them walking off a cliff and YOU have an
> >opportunity to stop them, and you don’t- Can you truelly say it
>was
> >their own fault?
> >Pornography- I never met too many Normal people that would find it
> >neccesary to take their
>cloths off for the public to see. Totally
> >wrong and if you had your own kids you might not think it too cool
> >having your buddy beating off while checking out your little girl.
> >Not nice eh Billy but P–sy T-ts are not meant for anyone except
>who
> >they belong to and their mate.
> >
> >Bye For Now, That stuff is about the biggest trigger going for any
> >downfall
> >
> >Bill
> >—-Original Message Follows—-
> >From: “Nick Sandberg”
> >Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
> >To:
> >Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Opiates
> >Date: Sun, 2 Apr 2006 10:24:07 +0100
> >MIME-Version: 1.0
> >Received: from tomts21-srv.bellnexxia.net ([209.226.175.183]) by
> >bay0-pamc1-f11.bay0.hotmail.com with Microsoft
> >SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Sun, 2 Apr 2006 05:38:59
>-0700
> >Received: from toip5.bellnexxia.net ([209.226.175.88]) by
> >tomts21-srv.bellnexxia.net (InterMail vM.5.01.06.13
> >201-253-122-130-113-20050324) with ESMTP id
> ><20060402123858.HZPV14030.tomts21-srv.bellnexxia.net@toip5.bellnexxia.net>
> > for ; Sun, 2 Apr 2006
>08:38:58
> >-0400
> >Received: from tanelorn.mindvox.com (HELO mail.mindvox.com)
> >([64.124.179.118]) by toip5.bellnexxia.net with ESMTP; 02 Apr
>2006
> >08:38:58 -0400
> >Received: (qmail 16967 invoked by uid 513); 2 Apr 2006 08:38:55
> >-0400
> >Received: (qmail 16961 invoked by uid
>514); 2 Apr 2006 08:38:55
> >-0400
> >X-Message-Info: moY6YVwXQ44WAJnUvaOEtK2hXKGagKAsshDbZwj7pSc=
> >Mailing-List: contact ibogaine-help@mindvox.com; run by ezmlm
> >Precedence: bulk
> >X-No-Archive: yes
> >List-Post:
> >List-Help:
> >List-Unsubscribe:
> >List-Subscribe:
> >Delivered-To: mailing list ibogaine@mindvox.com
> >X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.3 required=4.0
> >X-Antivirus-MYDOMAIN-Mail-From: nick227@tiscali.co.uk via
> >tanelorn.mindvox.com
> >X-Antivirus-MYDOMAIN: 1.25-st-qms
> >(Clear:RC:0(212.74.114.37):SA:0(-2.3/4.0):. Processed in 2.781926
> >secs Process 16953)
> >X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true
> >X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result:
>AQAAAJ0kL0SDE4UI
> >X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.6604 (9.0.2911.0)
> >Return-Path:
> >ibogaine-return-23233-billjohnson6=sympatico.ca@mindvox.com
> >X-OriginalArrivalTime: 02 Apr 2006 12:38:59.0373 (UTC)
> >FILETIME=[6A155DD0:01C65652]
> >
> >
> > —–Original Message—–
> > From: Tiger Lisa [mailto:tigerlisa@gmail.com]
> > Sent: 01 April 2006 13:44
> > To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
> > Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Opiates

=== message truncated ===

Blab-away for as little as 1¢/min. Make PC-to-Phone Calls using Yahoo! Messenger with Voice.

From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] OT! Eating cattle or food
Date: April 4, 2006 at 8:03:26 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Well, I don’t see much sign of plants raising their young at all, or being kind to one another, or huddling together for warmth, or blinking, so perhaps not having a face does mean something in my view.
To me anyway.
Also, btw, I came to this decision about my eating habits after my first ibogaine session, after which I ate one chicken meal the first night I was able to get up and go out to dinner and decided right then that I no long enjoyed nor wanted to support the killing of other animals for my food. Others I can’t change, but this is one small thing I can personally do to help create what I feel is a little piece of a positive world (and my sniping at Nick isn’t condusive to this positive world I’m trying to build, so I suppose I really should, and do, sincerely, apologize for that snippet at Nick…even though I still heartily disagree with much of what he says all the time).

—–
“If God dropped acid, would he see people?”  ~Steven Wright

Peace, love and lotsof respect.
Preston Peet
ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor Underground- the Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations, Astonishing Archaeology and Hidden History
Editor Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Columnist HighTimes mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —– From: Crooked Eye
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Tuesday, April 04, 2006 7:34 AM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] OT! Eating cattle or food

IS eating plants okay cause they don’t have faces?

Crooked Eye <iboganaut420@yahoo.com> wrote:
What about B-12?  Take vitamins I suppose?  Why even have incisors if we shouldn’t eat meat?  I don’t care if you don’t wanna, it’s more for me, but I fail to see why eating animals is wrong..  I would definitely prefer organic food, but unfortunately, not everyone can afford to buy such expensive meals…  Also, I am not big on pets either…  We are ALL animals…

Preston Peet <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com> wrote:
for me eating meat in a society where it’s unnecessary merely promotes the
fear/bloodthirsty addiction so prevalent in the Western world. I can see
eating meat in a society where there are no alternatives, but where I live
it’s easy to not eat meat, and I’m glad.
I still do dairy and eggs, but can’t eat anything that might lick it’s
fellow beings, or nuzzle them, or communicate in any way, shape or form with
one another, even chickens (which I’ve been told are ok to eat because
“they’re stupid.” If that were the only criteria for being ok to eat, I’d be
a cannibal). Again, this is only my own viewpoint, but there seems to be
something unenlightened, to me, how some folk can have “pets” but call
cattle mere “food,” making no connection to the living, breathing, thinking
creatures sharing the planet with us.

Butt, and it’s a great big butt, I can’t really fault anyone for their
eating habits beyond stating how I personally feel, particularly about
factory farming, inhumane treatment of our “food” and the wonton slaughter
of living creatures when it isn’t necessary for our survival, only to feed
our addiction to blood and flesh these days (Of course one couuld take this
to extreme and tell me plants are also living, but I limit my empathy and
eating ban to beings with eys I guess).
That’s because I’m…pro-choice at heart.

—–
“If God dropped acid, would he see people?” ~Steven Wright

Peace, love and lotsof respect.
Preston Peet
ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor Underground- the Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations,
Astonishing Archaeology and Hidden History
Editor Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Columnist HighTimes mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —– From: Crooked Eye
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Tuesday, April 04, 2006 3:53 AM
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Whats a Republican?

Cow’s are tasty… If we aren’t supposed to eat animals, then why are they
made out of meat? 😀 I fail how to see eating cows equates to racism… I
eat a lot of cows, but I have a mixed family… If it makes you feel any
better we eat a lot of chickens, too.. I love turkey, the tryptophan makes
me sleepy…

Alan Hehe wrote:
Don’t call me Baby…well, you can…since you’re not close enough for me
to do anything about it! Plus, that’s a freedom, too…Just like my ability
to talk about pro-choice. As for your information, no, I don’t think the way
the abortion system is set up–but I absolutely believe in having the
right…And no, you don’t have 9 months to decide whether to have the rug
rat or not–there is a cut-off, a limit to when abortions can be performed.
And so you think, because cows aren’t pets, or aren’t ‘cute’, then it’s
okay to torture them? And to cut the balls of bulls off without any
anesthetic? To make chickens live in a cage so small they can barely turn
around? And George Bush–wanting to save lives! LOL! That’s the biggest joke
I’ve ever heard! But it figures; you’re not special..alot of the people in
this country are brain-washed by the constant disinformation they are
fed….Why do you think there are a hundred commercials warning of the
dangers of marijuana, one of the least harmful drugs known to man, but yet
maybe one out of those hundred about the truly dangerous drugs, like H or
Coke?
And you don’t have to be a hindu to have compassion for animals other
than cats and dogs, you dumb-ass red-neck! In some places they eat
dogs…would that be okay if they ate your dog? You know, I’m totally
wasting my time talking to you, I can already tell that you are way
undereducated, extremely prejudiced. Cows are just food. Are blacks just
niggers, too? God, I can’t stand fuckin’ red-necks like you, especially the
ones that actually think they’re smart. Once you start doing away with
freedoms, it’s all down-hill. Who’s going to decide what’s right and wrong?
You?! I would happily put a hollow-point 45 shell into my head if that
possibility existed..of course G.W.B. is quite the redneck himself, which is
why you probably like him. First of all, HE’s not fighting for anything. I
have respect for the soldiers; they don’t decide the mission, they just do
what they’re told. And how many babies do you think die while we were waging
a war we were totally lied to about? Or is that okay? You think the babies
over there even know what a terrorist is? This world is already
over-populated..if people like you ran things, the world would run out of
resources within a decade! The oh so precious children! Everyone starts out
as a child..some people, like you, remain one, in their minds, their whole
life. But those sweet children often grow up to be killers and rapists, and
often for no apparent reason! Strong belief does only one thing: close your
mind. Boy, that ibogaine is gonna have fun with you!!!!! Cows are just food!
Well, we’re just food, too…if a grizzly decides you look good! God, what
egotism! You claim to be a Christian (I do not) but you must have misssed
the part about not judging lest you be judged yourself…And I bet ibo’s
gonna drive that one home with a psychoactive sledgehammer! You’ve got your
response, but I really no longer wish to talk with you. I’ve spent too much
time arguing with all the fascists on this list, instead of hanging out with
the cool, in the know ,people: by that meaning knowing that the whole Govt.
is totally corrupt, actually controlled by a few wealthy and extremely
powerful people, and they constantly just feed us disinformation, while
manipulating the world through economic control, etc, and alot of other
things you wouldn’t understand. BYE< NOW, Billy BOY. Go get a burger!

From: “Billy J”
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Whats a Republican?
Date: Tue, 04 Apr 2006 02:19:25 -0400
Hear this peace and take it to your Heart FRIEND.
1st if we go back to Killing kids for the sins of their fathers
(Child of a Rapist) Do you think that is more civilized then Raising
Cattle for food,(Cattle are food “not Pets”) although you may be
from India or somewhere that they worship your cows and even there
fecal matter I hear! Now if your are at that junkger(Place) then I
will have to say -well Al, Bless you, but when was the last time you
had your precious cow go to war for YOUR FREEDOMS that I am sure you
are enjoying- Yes?
Allan , do you really love cows (the 4 legged ones that is) or
are you in your 2nd or 3rd reincarnation and you where once a cow
and you have come into this wierd mooing stage and you just could
not figure it out.
Ok That is sarcasm – Sorry< I’ll get serious.
Oh Ya Your aborting a fetus-, and yes I know that in the USof A
being the most civilized Nation that has usually voted anti-
Christian ( just in case somebody didn’t let Everybody do what FEELs
GOOD)
Ya you can Have sex with anybody you want and then if a girl gets
pregnant, or do you call it fetus something, oh well so shes
pregnant you have 9 months to decide whether or not you what the
little BLOB Because your fetus can be kicking up a storm and as long
as you can keep its stupid( oh it,s brain isn’t functioning yet
,right) well as long as you can keep its head inside the grown up
fetus ( that would be the female, The pregnant one, knocked up one ,
dumb one what ever you would call someone like that ( Maybe MOM)
well just reach in and CRUSH ITS SCULL and or STICK A SYRINGE INTO
THe Back of it HEAD JUST UNTIL ITS STOPS PUTTINGN UP A FIGHT, AND
they do fight Allan, just go and ask your abortion doctor.– PARTIAL
BIRTH ABORTION– VERY NICE–
oH YA AND YOU KNOW WHAT ALLY BABY THAT STUPID WAR MOGER THAT YOU
HAVE AS A PRESIDENT WOULD LIKE NOTHING MORE THAN TO SAVE PEOPLE BUT
ALL YOU PEOPLE THAT GOD GAVE YOU FREE CHOICE HAVE DECIDED TO VOTE
FOR THE REAL KILLERS-
Have you any clue how many of your fetuses are done away with
each year in the USA alone,, Allan Baby– way way more in 1 year
than have been killed in ALL the World wars— How many do you think
are rape and how many are just another form of birth control,, Your
Planned Parenthood is a multi-Billion dollar industry that fights
for you to have the freedom to get rid of your Babies- But They do
not do it for free– They are rich.One more thing if we can justify
killing because you THINK they don’t feel pain- Why not line up all
us addicts right after a good whack and while we are feeling no pain
BANG-
Save a lot of tax dollars- The Meth Clinics would be Pissed though.

Love Ya!

Just Don’t say it is OK To Kill My Children- Or Yours

B

—-Original Message Follows—-
From: “Alan Hehe”
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] RE: [Pornography,psychology,Choice,force,) 2
cents
Date: Tue, 04 Apr 2006 01:25:21 -0400
MIME-Version: 1.0
Received: from tomts30-srv.bellnexxia.net ([209.226.175.104]) by
bay0-pamc1-f3.bay0.hotmail.com with Microsoft
SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Mon, 3 Apr 2006 22:27:22 -0700
Received: from toip4.bellnexxia.net ([209.226.175.87]) by
tomts30-srv.bellnexxia.net (InterMail vM.5.01.06.13
201-253-122-130-113-20050324) with ESMTP id
<20060404052721.IXFI18550.tomts30-srv.bellnexxia.net@toip4.bellnexxia.net>
for ; Tue, 4 Apr 2006 01:27:21
-0400
Received: from tanelorn.mindvox.com (HELO mail.mindvox.com)
([64.124.179.118]) by toip4.bellnexxia.net with ESMTP; 04 Apr 2006
01:27:16 -0400
Received: (qmail 1073 invoked by uid 513); 4 Apr 2006 01:27:15 -0400
Received: (qmail 1067 invoked by uid 514); 4 Apr 2006 01:27:15 -0400
X-Message-Info: moY6YVwXQ46hfM+PXD+r03SFMVOY3E1daJYU/Sm1Nkw=
Mailing-List: contact ibogaine-help@mindvox.com; run by ezmlm
Precedence: bulk
X-No-Archive: yes
List-Post:
List-Help:
List-Unsubscribe:
List-Subscribe:
Delivered-To: mailing list ibogaine@mindvox.com
X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.1 required=4.0
X-Antivirus-MYDOMAIN-Mail-From: a.h.veil68@hotmail.com via
tanelorn.mindvox.com
X-Antivirus-MYDOMAIN: 1.25-st-qms
(Clear:RC:0(65.54.224.26):SA:0(-2.1/4.0):. Processed in 8.08646 secs
Process 1055)
Return-Path:
ibogaine-return-23280-billjohnson6=sympatico.ca@mindvox.com
X-OriginalArrivalTime: 04 Apr 2006 05:27:22.0868 (UTC)
FILETIME=[7363CB40:01C657A8]

I gotta take a piece of this one. Okay, Mr. Anti-choice, let me
ask you this: do you eat meat? If not, then good for you. If so,
have you ever though about the actual, truly painful, totally
inhumane treatment we put animals through? And usually don’t think
twice about it…It’s people like George Bush who make me wish
sometimes that God would hurl an asteroid at us! It’s “God forbid
one human foetus (who does not feel a thing if the abortion is done
in a timely manner, according to the latest research, because their
nervous system isn’t nearly fully developed) should perish, no
matter if it was caused by a rape or is probably going to be born
into alot of suffering–but while I’m on my high horse, cut me a
piece o that cow off and cook it up! It’s sheer egotism that we
believe that humans are so damned
important, but it’s okay if we torture animals, ruin the planet, and
make other people adhere to our beliefs!!! We’re not that important!
And if you believe in a God and the soul, then you know that–if the
foetus even has a soul yet, which I don’t believe it does..I believe
the soul enters with the first breath, and leaves with the
last–that baby is just going back into the arms of God! There is no
death! And since they don’t experience pain, all it becomes is
something for people like you to feel self righteous about!
Personally, I think everyone should smoke pot, and would benefit
from it (except for a few cases), but how would you like it if I
MADE you smoke it? That is, if you don’t, and don’t like it. Or
let’s say you eat meat, but I think it’s just as evil to do that as
to allow abortions, so I outlawed meat–would that be okay with you?
And the cliff analogy is just stupid–not
the same thing at all. But yes, I think if a person is truly
miserable, and wants to die, I would try to talk them out of it, but
I would never stop them by force. That’s called LACK OF FREEDOM. And
if we didn’t make mistakes, how would we ever learn? To be told
something is wrong is one thing..you can tell a person, fire will
burn you..but until they get burned, they will not truly understand,
and that’s what life is all about–learning. No, I don’t like to see
foetus’ abortions–I think prevention is the answer….But
sometimes, I believe it is ‘the best choice’. If everyone like you
had their way, there really would be NO ROOM AT ALL left!!! We’re
already sooo over-populated! It’s like I heard some character say in
a movie recently..”everybody’s kids are so special…it makes you
wonder where all the normal adults come from”. Even God believes in
freedom of choice! That’s why he gave
us FREE WILL. You’re a Republican, aren’t you? And you probably
think that war-mongering asshole of a President is the best-thing
since sliced bread, eh? It’s okay to kill, as long as it’s not a
precious child…even though that child may grow up to be The Son of
Sam! well…”take me by the ham, no good, no evil, no give a
damn!” And the Govt. is lying to you! About just about everything.
Peace, love, and freedom. Life is too mysterious to take it so
serious!

From: “Billy J”
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] RE: [Pornography,psychology,Choice,force,) 2
cents
Date: Sun, 02 Apr 2006 21:45:39 -0400
>Well It sounds like this place is really mixing it up so I would
>like to add a little REALITY TO YOU PRO CHOICERS, I am sure glad I
>was not an abortion’ althought I have had my moments.
>Yes My Mom was a young Mom and if she had a choice I think that I
>would have no Grandkids, or be babbleing on here.
> I too have an attitude, It is about the only thing in this
>world that I really have control over.
>Tiger– How well did you do with making ALL your own Choices,
>Instead of doing
what your were told to do? Not meant to be a shot
>at you personally, but I am with the Right or Wrong crowd- No such
>thing as grey.
> I do know that some people may have grown up believing that
wrong
>was right and right was wrong, but I Think that I pretty much knew
>when I was stepping out of line and doing wrong.
>It is (as most believe) My God , no not God, but My worldly given
>Right- to do wrong- It’s my life and if I want to screw it up then
>stay out of my way. And you know what I had a lot of sooo called
>friends that did just that WATCHED, AS i WAS Killing myself and
>ruining a lot of lifes.
>But O O O never no no no neverdare step on somebodys toes because
>you know what they have a choice, Just like those poor little
Crack
>%$^&%$ Women that degrade themselves( and me
myself) due to
>everybody. But Never No No Never dare tell somebody or force
someone
>to get some help that they may never ever make it to on their own,
>due to something called “Pride” “Shame” “Guilt”
>Whatever holds them back. They may end up DEAD and it would be
their
>own fault, because you know how STRONG us druggies are, and if
that
>person dies because he had a choice to get help and refused or
just
>couldn’t make it on his/her own and needed YOU (of course they
>didn’t tell you that).
>I am sorry but I BELIEVE that if you Love Someone or even care a
>little, and you see them walking off a cliff and YOU have an
>opportunity to stop them, and you don’t- Can you truelly say it
was
>their own fault?
>Pornography- I never met too many Normal people that would find it
>neccesary to take their
cloths off for the public to see. Totally
>wrong and if you had your own kids you might not think it too cool
>having your buddy beating off while checking out your little girl.
>Not nice eh Billy but P–sy T-ts are not meant for anyone except
who
>they belong to and their mate.
>
>Bye For Now, That stuff is about the biggest trigger going for any
>downfall
>
>Bill
>—-Original Message Follows—-
>From: “Nick Sandberg”
>Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
>To:
>Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Opiates
>Date: Sun, 2 Apr 2006 10:24:07 +0100
>MIME-Version: 1.0
>Received: from tomts21-srv.bellnexxia.net ([209.226.175.183]) by
>bay0-pamc1-f11.bay0.hotmail.com with Microsoft
>SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Sun, 2 Apr 2006 05:38:59
-0700
>Received: from toip5.bellnexxia.net ([209.226.175.88]) by
>tomts21-srv.bellnexxia.net (InterMail vM.5.01.06.13
>201-253-122-130-113-20050324) with ESMTP id
><20060402123858.HZPV14030.tomts21-srv.bellnexxia.net@toip5.bellnexxia.net>
> for ; Sun, 2 Apr 2006
08:38:58
>-0400
>Received: from tanelorn.mindvox.com (HELO mail.mindvox.com)
>([64.124.179.118]) by toip5.bellnexxia.net with ESMTP; 02 Apr
2006
>08:38:58 -0400
>Received: (qmail 16967 invoked by uid 513); 2 Apr 2006 08:38:55
>-0400
>Received: (qmail 16961 invoked by uid
514); 2 Apr 2006 08:38:55
>-0400
>X-Message-Info: moY6YVwXQ44WAJnUvaOEtK2hXKGagKAsshDbZwj7pSc=
>Mailing-List: contact ibogaine-help@mindvox.com; run by ezmlm
>Precedence: bulk
>X-No-Archive: yes
>List-Post:
>List-Help:
>List-Unsubscribe:
>List-Subscribe:
>Delivered-To: mailing list ibogaine@mindvox.com
>X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.3 required=4.0
>X-Antivirus-MYDOMAIN-Mail-From: nick227@tiscali.co.uk via
>tanelorn.mindvox.com
>X-Antivirus-MYDOMAIN: 1.25-st-qms
>(Clear:RC:0(212.74.114.37):SA:0(-2.3/4.0):. Processed in 2.781926
>secs Process 16953)
>X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true
>X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result:
AQAAAJ0kL0SDE4UI
>X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.6604 (9.0.2911.0)
>Return-Path:
>ibogaine-return-23233-billjohnson6=sympatico.ca@mindvox.com
>X-OriginalArrivalTime: 02 Apr 2006 12:38:59.0373 (UTC)
>FILETIME=[6A155DD0:01C65652]
>
>
> —–Original Message—–
> From: Tiger Lisa [mailto:tigerlisa@gmail.com]
> Sent: 01 April 2006 13:44
> To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
> Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Opiates
>
>
> Dear Nick,
> Here’ the part I don’t understand.
>
> You wrote,
> Personally, my position is…I think rising awareness is GOOD.
I
>would
>love to see more people in groups, going through their stuff,
>becoming more
>aware of their
personal interior dynamic, and moving forward in
>life. But,
>sadly, I’m not in a position to compel people to do this.
>
> Why would you ever want to COMPEL anyone to do ANYTHING? Do you
>really
>believe that would be useful, effective, helpful? Do you think
>people
>actually benefit from, and grow from, being FORCED to do anything?
>
> That is a parent-child model of interaction (and not a
>particularly
>skillful one, IMO), and it’s going to reinforce childlike,
>rebellious and
>victim behavior (NOT self-awareness!) in the one so compelled, as
>well as
>reinforcing bullying behavior and disprespectful and righteous
>attitudes
>(NOT increased compassion or awareness) in the one doing the
>compelling. A
>”lose-lose” interaction–no one
wins!
>
> Myself, I believe CHOICE is the name of the game. With choice
>comes
>responsibility, self-responsibility and a loss of the victim
>consciousness
>that drives continued reactive and unconscious behavior.
>
> So in a nutshell: Saying something (like awarenss) is GOOD is

=== message truncated ===

Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. Make PC-to-Phone Calls to the US (and 30+ countries) for 2�/min or less.

New Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. Call regular phones from your PC and save big.

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] OT! Eating cattle or food
Date: April 4, 2006 at 8:00:00 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Well, I could ask the same thing about nipples on guys (why have ’em if we can’t give milk?) and about appendixes (why have ’em if they only end up either bursting or doin’ nothing at all good or bad) and that would lead to the answer “evolution” perhaps, that we can evolve out of inhumane habits and addictions such as eating meat now that we really don’t have to. Of course, this isn’t for everyone and I don’t expect to convince a single other person- but I do feel I must state my opinion on it since a couple of other posted pro-meat eating posts. (Also, because there seems to be a regular tendency on the part of those who eat meat to make light of the opinions of those of us who don’t, as though our compassion, or our repulsion, isn’t valid or real, and that irks me when I do see it.)
I guess I simply take that “treat others as I wanna be treated” so far as to include the other animals sharing the planet with me. I’d prefer they don’t eat me, so I won’t eat them either.

—–
“If God dropped acid, would he see people?”  ~Steven Wright

Peace, love and lotsof respect.
Preston Peet
ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor Underground- the Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations, Astonishing Archaeology and Hidden History
Editor Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Columnist HighTimes mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.
—– Original Message —–
From: Crooked Eye
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Tuesday, April 04, 2006 7:32 AM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] OT! Eating cattle or food

What about B-12?  Take vitamins I suppose?  Why even have incisors if we shouldn’t eat meat?  I don’t care if you don’t wanna, it’s more for me, but I fail to see why eating animals is wrong..  I would definitely prefer organic food, but unfortunately, not everyone can afford to buy such expensive meals…  Also, I am not big on pets either…  We are ALL animals…

Preston Peet <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com> wrote:
for me eating meat in a society where it’s unnecessary merely promotes the
fear/bloodthirsty addiction so prevalent in the Western world. I can see
eating meat in a society where there are no alternatives, but where I live
it’s easy to not eat meat, and I’m glad.
I still do dairy and eggs, but can’t eat anything that might lick it’s
fellow beings, or nuzzle them, or communicate in any way, shape or form with
one another, even chickens (which I’ve been told are ok to eat because
“they’re stupid.” If that were the only criteria for being ok to eat, I’d be
a cannibal). Again, this is only my own viewpoint, but there seems to be
something unenlightened, to me, how some folk can have “pets” but call
cattle mere “food,” making no connection to the living, breathing, thinking
creatures sharing the planet with us.

Butt, and it’s a great big butt, I can’t really fault anyone for their
eating habits beyond stating how I personally feel, particularly about
factory farming, inhumane treatment of our “food” and the wonton slaughter
of living creatures when it isn’t necessary for our survival, only to feed
our addiction to blood and flesh these days (Of course one couuld take this
to extreme and tell me plants are also living, but I limit my empathy and
eating ban to beings with eys I guess).
That’s because I’m…pro-choice at heart.

—–
“If God dropped acid, would he see people?” ~Steven Wright

Peace, love and lotsof respect.
Preston Peet
ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor Underground- the Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations,
Astonishing Archaeology and Hidden History
Editor Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Columnist HighTimes mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —–
From: Crooked Eye
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Tuesday, April 04, 2006 3:53 AM
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Whats a Republican?

Cow’s are tasty… If we aren’t supposed to eat animals, then why are they
made out of meat? 😀 I fail how to see eating cows equates to racism… I
eat a lot of cows, but I have a mixed family… If it makes you feel any
better we eat a lot of chickens, too.. I love turkey, the tryptophan makes
me sleepy…

Alan Hehe wrote:
Don’t call me Baby…well, you can…since you’re not close enough for me
to do anything about it! Plus, that’s a freedom, too…Just like my ability
to talk about pro-choice. As for your information, no, I don’t think the way
the abortion system is set up–but I absolutely believe in having the
right…And no, you don’t have 9 months to decide whether to have the rug
rat or not–there is a cut-off, a limit to when abortions can be performed.
And so you think, because cows aren’t pets, or aren’t ‘cute’, then it’s
okay to torture them? And to cut the balls of bulls off without any
anesthetic? To make chickens live in a cage so small they can barely turn
around? And George Bush–wanting to save lives! LOL! That’s the biggest joke
I’ve ever heard! But it figures; you’re not special..alot of the people in
this country are brain-washed by the constant disinformation they are
fed….Why do you think there are a hundred commercials warning of the
dangers of marijuana, one of the least harmful drugs known to man, but yet
maybe one out of those hundred about the truly dangerous drugs, like H or
Coke?
And you don’t have to be a hindu to have compassion for animals other
than cats and dogs, you dumb-ass red-neck! In some places they eat
dogs…would that be okay if they ate your dog? You know, I’m totally
wasting my time talking to you, I can already tell that you are way
undereducated, extremely prejudiced. Cows are just food. Are blacks just
niggers, too? God, I can’t stand fuckin’ red-necks like you, especially the
ones that actually think they’re smart. Once you start doing away with
freedoms, it’s all down-hill. Who’s going to decide what’s right and wrong?
You?! I would happily put a hollow-point 45 shell into my head if that
possibility existed..of course G.W.B. is quite the redneck himself, which is
why you probably like him. First of all, HE’s not fighting for anything. I
have respect for the soldiers; they don’t decide the mission, they just do
what they’re told. And how many babies do you think die while we were waging
a war we were totally lied to about? Or is that okay? You think the babies
over there even know what a terrorist is? This world is already
over-populated..if people like you ran things, the world would run out of
resources within a decade! The oh so precious children! Everyone starts out
as a child..some people, like you, remain one, in their minds, their whole
life. But those sweet children often grow up to be killers and rapists, and
often for no apparent reason! Strong belief does only one thing: close your
mind. Boy, that ibogaine is gonna have fun with you!!!!! Cows are just food!
Well, we’re just food, too…if a grizzly decides you look good! God, what
egotism! You claim to be a Christian (I do not) but you must have misssed
the part about not judging lest you be judged yourself…And I bet ibo’s
gonna drive that one home with a psychoactive sledgehammer! You’ve got your
response, but I really no longer wish to talk with you. I’ve spent too much
time arguing with all the fascists on this list, instead of hanging out with
the cool, in the know ,people: by that meaning knowing that the whole Govt.
is totally corrupt, actually controlled by a few wealthy and extremely
powerful people, and they constantly just feed us disinformation, while
manipulating the world through economic control, etc, and alot of other
things you wouldn’t understand. BYE< NOW, Billy BOY. Go get a burger!

From: “Billy J”
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Whats a Republican?
Date: Tue, 04 Apr 2006 02:19:25 -0400
>Hear this peace and take it to your Heart FRIEND.
>1st if we go back to Killing kids for the sins of their fathers
>(Child of a Rapist) Do you think that is more civilized then Raising
>Cattle for food,(Cattle are food “not Pets”) although you may be
>from India or somewhere that they worship your cows and even there
>fecal matter I hear! Now if your are at that junkger(Place) then I
>will have to say -well Al, Bless you, but when was the last time you
>had your precious cow go to war for YOUR FREEDOMS that I am sure you
>are enjoying- Yes?
> Allan , do you really love cows (the 4 legged ones that is) or
>are you in your 2nd or 3rd reincarnation and you where once a cow
>and you have come into this wierd mooing stage and you just could
>not figure it out.
> Ok That is sarcasm – Sorry< I’ll get serious.
>Oh Ya Your aborting a fetus-, and yes I know that in the USof A
>being the most civilized Nation that has usually voted anti-
>Christian ( just in case somebody didn’t let Everybody do what FEELs
>GOOD)
>Ya you can Have sex with anybody you want and then if a girl gets
>pregnant, or do you call it fetus something, oh well so shes
>pregnant you have 9 months to decide whether or not you what the
>little BLOB Because your fetus can be kicking up a storm and as long
>as you can keep its stupid( oh it,s brain isn’t functioning yet
>,right) well as long as you can keep its head inside the grown up
>fetus ( that would be the female, The pregnant one, knocked up one ,
>dumb one what ever you would call someone like that ( Maybe MOM)
>well just reach in and CRUSH ITS SCULL and or STICK A SYRINGE INTO
>THe Back of it HEAD JUST UNTIL ITS STOPS PUTTINGN UP A FIGHT, AND
>they do fight Allan, just go and ask your abortion doctor.– PARTIAL
>BIRTH ABORTION– VERY NICE–
> oH YA AND YOU KNOW WHAT ALLY BABY THAT STUPID WAR MOGER THAT YOU
>HAVE AS A PRESIDENT WOULD LIKE NOTHING MORE THAN TO SAVE PEOPLE BUT
>ALL YOU PEOPLE THAT GOD GAVE YOU FREE CHOICE HAVE DECIDED TO VOTE
>FOR THE REAL KILLERS-
> Have you any clue how many of your fetuses are done away with
>each year in the USA alone,, Allan Baby– way way more in 1 year
>than have been killed in ALL the World wars— How many do you think
>are rape and how many are just another form of birth control,, Your
>Planned Parenthood is a multi-Billion dollar industry that fights
>for you to have the freedom to get rid of your Babies- But They do
>not do it for free– They are rich.One more thing if we can justify
>killing because you THINK they don’t feel pain- Why not line up all
>us addicts right after a good whack and while we are feeling no pain
>BANG-
>Save a lot of tax dollars- The Meth Clinics would be Pissed though.
>
>Love Ya!
>
>Just Don’t say it is OK To Kill My Children- Or Yours
>
>B
>
>—-Original Message Follows—-
>From: “Alan Hehe”
>Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
>To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
>Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] RE: [Pornography,psychology,Choice,force,) 2
>cents
>Date: Tue, 04 Apr 2006 01:25:21 -0400
>MIME-Version: 1.0
>Received: from tomts30-srv.bellnexxia.net ([209.226.175.104]) by
>bay0-pamc1-f3.bay0.hotmail.com with Microsoft
>SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Mon, 3 Apr 2006 22:27:22 -0700
>Received: from toip4.bellnexxia.net ([209.226.175.87]) by
>tomts30-srv.bellnexxia.net (InterMail vM.5.01.06.13
>201-253-122-130-113-20050324) with ESMTP id
><20060404052721.IXFI18550.tomts30-srv.bellnexxia.net@toip4.bellnexxia.net>
> for ; Tue, 4 Apr 2006 01:27:21
>-0400
>Received: from tanelorn.mindvox.com (HELO mail.mindvox.com)
>([64.124.179.118]) by toip4.bellnexxia.net with ESMTP; 04 Apr 2006
>01:27:16 -0400
>Received: (qmail 1073 invoked by uid 513); 4 Apr 2006 01:27:15 -0400
>Received: (qmail 1067 invoked by uid 514); 4 Apr 2006 01:27:15 -0400
>X-Message-Info: moY6YVwXQ46hfM+PXD+r03SFMVOY3E1daJYU/Sm1Nkw=
>Mailing-List: contact ibogaine-help@mindvox.com; run by ezmlm
>Precedence: bulk
>X-No-Archive: yes
>List-Post:
>List-Help:
>List-Unsubscribe:
>List-Subscribe:
>Delivered-To: mailing list ibogaine@mindvox.com
>X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.1 required=4.0
>X-Antivirus-MYDOMAIN-Mail-From: a.h.veil68@hotmail.com via
>tanelorn.mindvox.com
>X-Antivirus-MYDOMAIN: 1.25-st-qms
>(Clear:RC:0(65.54.224.26):SA:0(-2.1/4.0):. Processed in 8.08646 secs
>Process 1055)
>Return-Path:
>ibogaine-return-23280-billjohnson6=sympatico.ca@mindvox.com
>X-OriginalArrivalTime: 04 Apr 2006 05:27:22.0868 (UTC)
>FILETIME=[7363CB40:01C657A8]
>
>
>
> I gotta take a piece of this one. Okay, Mr. Anti-choice, let me
>ask you this: do you eat meat? If not, then good for you. If so,
>have you ever though about the actual, truly painful, totally
>inhumane treatment we put animals through? And usually don’t think
>twice about it…It’s people like George Bush who make me wish
>sometimes that God would hurl an asteroid at us! It’s “God forbid
>one human foetus (who does not feel a thing if the abortion is done
>in a timely manner, according to the latest research, because their
>nervous system isn’t nearly fully developed) should perish, no
>matter if it was caused by a rape or is probably going to be born
>into alot of suffering–but while I’m on my high horse, cut me a
>piece o that cow off and cook it up! It’s sheer egotism that we
>believe that humans are so damned
>important, but it’s okay if we torture animals, ruin the planet, and
>make other people adhere to our beliefs!!! We’re not that important!
>And if you believe in a God and the soul, then you know that–if the
>foetus even has a soul yet, which I don’t believe it does..I believe
>the soul enters with the first breath, and leaves with the
>last–that baby is just going back into the arms of God! There is no
>death! And since they don’t experience pain, all it becomes is
>something for people like you to feel self righteous about!
>Personally, I think everyone should smoke pot, and would benefit
>from it (except for a few cases), but how would you like it if I
>MADE you smoke it? That is, if you don’t, and don’t like it. Or
>let’s say you eat meat, but I think it’s just as evil to do that as
>to allow abortions, so I outlawed meat–would that be okay with you?
>And the cliff analogy is just stupid–not
>the same thing at all. But yes, I think if a person is truly
>miserable, and wants to die, I would try to talk them out of it, but
>I would never stop them by force. That’s called LACK OF FREEDOM. And
>if we didn’t make mistakes, how would we ever learn? To be told
>something is wrong is one thing..you can tell a person, fire will
>burn you..but until they get burned, they will not truly understand,
>and that’s what life is all about–learning. No, I don’t like to see
>foetus’ abortions–I think prevention is the answer….But
>sometimes, I believe it is ‘the best choice’. If everyone like you
>had their way, there really would be NO ROOM AT ALL left!!! We’re
>already sooo over-populated! It’s like I heard some character say in
>a movie recently..”everybody’s kids are so special…it makes you
>wonder where all the normal adults come from”. Even God believes in
>freedom of choice! That’s why he gave
>us FREE WILL. You’re a Republican, aren’t you? And you probably
>think that war-mongering asshole of a President is the best-thing
>since sliced bread, eh? It’s okay to kill, as long as it’s not a
>precious child…even though that child may grow up to be The Son of
>Sam! well…”take me by the ham, no good, no evil, no give a
>damn!” And the Govt. is lying to you! About just about everything.
>Peace, love, and freedom. Life is too mysterious to take it so
>serious!
>
>
>
>
>
>
>From: “Billy J”
>Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
>To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
>Subject: [Ibogaine] RE: [Pornography,psychology,Choice,force,) 2
>cents
>Date: Sun, 02 Apr 2006 21:45:39 -0400
> >Well It sounds like this place is really mixing it up so I would
> >like to add a little REALITY TO YOU PRO CHOICERS, I am sure glad I
> >was not an abortion’ althought I have had my moments.
> >Yes My Mom was a young Mom and if she had a choice I think that I
> >would have no Grandkids, or be babbleing on here.
> > I too have an attitude, It is about the only thing in this
> >world that I really have control over.
> >Tiger– How well did you do with making ALL your own Choices,
> >Instead of doing
>what your were told to do? Not meant to be a shot
> >at you personally, but I am with the Right or Wrong crowd- No such
> >thing as grey.
> > I do know that some people may have grown up believing that
>wrong
> >was right and right was wrong, but I Think that I pretty much knew
> >when I was stepping out of line and doing wrong.
> >It is (as most believe) My God , no not God, but My worldly given
> >Right- to do wrong- It’s my life and if I want to screw it up then
> >stay out of my way. And you know what I had a lot of sooo called
> >friends that did just that WATCHED, AS i WAS Killing myself and
> >ruining a lot of lifes.
> >But O O O never no no no neverdare step on somebodys toes because
> >you know what they have a choice, Just like those poor little
>Crack
> >%$^&%$ Women that degrade themselves( and me
>myself) due to
> >everybody. But Never No No Never dare tell somebody or force
>someone
> >to get some help that they may never ever make it to on their own,
> >due to something called “Pride” “Shame” “Guilt”
> >Whatever holds them back. They may end up DEAD and it would be
>their
> >own fault, because you know how STRONG us druggies are, and if
>that
> >person dies because he had a choice to get help and refused or
>just
> >couldn’t make it on his/her own and needed YOU (of course they
> >didn’t tell you that).
> >I am sorry but I BELIEVE that if you Love Someone or even care a
> >little, and you see them walking off a cliff and YOU have an
> >opportunity to stop them, and you don’t- Can you truelly say it
>was
> >their own fault?
> >Pornography- I never met too many Normal people that would find it
> >neccesary to take their
>cloths off for the public to see. Totally
> >wrong and if you had your own kids you might not think it too cool
> >having your buddy beating off while checking out your little girl.
> >Not nice eh Billy but P–sy T-ts are not meant for anyone except
>who
> >they belong to and their mate.
> >
> >Bye For Now, That stuff is about the biggest trigger going for any
> >downfall
> >
> >Bill
> >—-Original Message Follows—-
> >From: “Nick Sandberg”
> >Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
> >To:
> >Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Opiates
> >Date: Sun, 2 Apr 2006 10:24:07 +0100
> >MIME-Version: 1.0
> >Received: from tomts21-srv.bellnexxia.net ([209.226.175.183]) by
> >bay0-pamc1-f11.bay0.hotmail.com with Microsoft
> >SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Sun, 2 Apr 2006 05:38:59
>-0700
> >Received: from toip5.bellnexxia.net ([209.226.175.88]) by
> >tomts21-srv.bellnexxia.net (InterMail vM.5.01.06.13
> >201-253-122-130-113-20050324) with ESMTP id
> ><20060402123858.HZPV14030.tomts21-srv.bellnexxia.net@toip5.bellnexxia.net>
> > for ; Sun, 2 Apr 2006
>08:38:58
> >-0400
> >Received: from tanelorn.mindvox.com (HELO mail.mindvox.com)
> >([64.124.179.118]) by toip5.bellnexxia.net with ESMTP; 02 Apr
>2006
> >08:38:58 -0400
> >Received: (qmail 16967 invoked by uid 513); 2 Apr 2006 08:38:55
> >-0400
> >Received: (qmail 16961 invoked by uid
>514); 2 Apr 2006 08:38:55
> >-0400
> >X-Message-Info: moY6YVwXQ44WAJnUvaOEtK2hXKGagKAsshDbZwj7pSc=
> >Mailing-List: contact ibogaine-help@mindvox.com; run by ezmlm
> >Precedence: bulk
> >X-No-Archive: yes
> >List-Post:
> >List-Help:
> >List-Unsubscribe:
> >List-Subscribe:
> >Delivered-To: mailing list ibogaine@mindvox.com
> >X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.3 required=4.0
> >X-Antivirus-MYDOMAIN-Mail-From: nick227@tiscali.co.uk via
> >tanelorn.mindvox.com
> >X-Antivirus-MYDOMAIN: 1.25-st-qms
> >(Clear:RC:0(212.74.114.37):SA:0(-2.3/4.0):. Processed in 2.781926
> >secs Process 16953)
> >X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true
> >X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result:
>AQAAAJ0kL0SDE4UI
> >X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.6604 (9.0.2911.0)
> >Return-Path:
> >ibogaine-return-23233-billjohnson6=sympatico.ca@mindvox.com
> >X-OriginalArrivalTime: 02 Apr 2006 12:38:59.0373 (UTC)
> >FILETIME=[6A155DD0:01C65652]
> >
> >
> > —–Original Message—–
> > From: Tiger Lisa [mailto:tigerlisa@gmail.com]
> > Sent: 01 April 2006 13:44
> > To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
> > Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Opiates
> >
> >
> > Dear Nick,
> > Here’ the part I don’t understand.
> >
> > You wrote,
> > Personally, my position is…I think rising awareness is GOOD.
>I
> >would
> >love to see more people in groups, going through their stuff,
> >becoming more
> >aware of their
>personal interior dynamic, and moving forward in
> >life. But,
> >sadly, I’m not in a position to compel people to do this.
> >
> > Why would you ever want to COMPEL anyone to do ANYTHING? Do you
> >really
> >believe that would be useful, effective, helpful? Do you think
> >people
> >actually benefit from, and grow from, being FORCED to do anything?
> >
> > That is a parent-child model of interaction (and not a
> >particularly
> >skillful one, IMO), and it’s going to reinforce childlike,
> >rebellious and
> >victim behavior (NOT self-awareness!) in the one so compelled, as
> >well as
> >reinforcing bullying behavior and disprespectful and righteous
> >attitudes
> >(NOT increased compassion or awareness) in the one doing the
> >compelling. A
> >”lose-lose” interaction–no one
>wins!
> >
> > Myself, I believe CHOICE is the name of the game. With choice
> >comes
> >responsibility, self-responsibility and a loss of the victim
> >consciousness
> >that drives continued reactive and unconscious behavior.
> >
> > So in a nutshell: Saying something (like awarenss) is GOOD is

=== message truncated ===

Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. Make PC-to-Phone Calls to the US (and 30+ countries) for 2¢/min or less.

From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] Speaking April 14th at Pratt Institute
Date: April 4, 2006 at 7:56:19 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>, <drugwar@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

http://events.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=events.detail&eventID=57730.67784

The above URL leads to a myspace.com webpage, and I’m not sure if one has to register to see it. Perhaps not. If so, please let me know and I’ll find out if there’s another page with the info- but regardless, I’m speaking at a benefit for Brooklyn homeless folk, at Pratt Institute’s Student Union (200 Willoughby Ave) on April 14, a Friday. The event is from 8PM to 1AM, and I’m not entirely sure at what time I’m speaking, but I’ve got an hour to fill, so if anyone has any good juicy questions they’d like to hurl publicly, please do attend.
Peace, love and lotsof respect.
—–
“If God dropped acid, would he see people?”  ~Steven Wright

Peace, love and lotsof respect.
Preston Peet
ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor Underground- the Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations, Astonishing Archaeology and Hidden History
Editor Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Columnist HighTimes mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: “Nick Sandberg” <nick227@tiscali.co.uk>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Pot calling the Kettle Black?
Date: April 4, 2006 at 7:45:47 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

—–Original Message—–
From: Preston Peet [mailto:ptpeet@nyc.rr.com]
Sent: 04 April 2006 12:20
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Pot calling the Kettle Black?

But, working around addicts, what I see time and again is that they are
either from high trauma backgrounds or are just acutely
sensitive, ie have
trouble repressing feelings. To me there’s a pretty clear relationship
between tendencies to opiate usage and the body’s ability to repress
feeling.<

And if this is the case Nick, why out of curiosity is this
necessarily a bad
thing? Or is it? Or are there gray areas here in your view?

Hi Preston,

For sure there are grey areas. It’s just a tendency I notice in people using
opiates. A lot either seem to be hypersensitive or coming from a fairly
traumatic background. Both suggest to me they have a problem repressing
feelings. It’s not a bad thing at all. It’s just an observation. We’re all
just people at the end of the day.

Nick

—–
“If God dropped acid, would he see people?”  ~Steven Wright

Peace, love and lotsof respect.
Preston Peet
ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor Underground- the Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations,
Astonishing Archaeology and Hidden History
Editor Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Columnist HighTimes mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —–
From: Nick Sandberg
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Tuesday, April 04, 2006 5:01 AM
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Pot calling the Kettle Black?

Alan,

To be honest, I find you wrapped up so tight I am a bit scared to even
communicate with you. I don’t know where things will go for you. I mean,
just the suggestion that you are using opiates to hold down feelings and
you’re at like defcon2 or something. Why not just check out why
what I write
brings up so much feeling in you? You think anger is created by events
external to yourself? It can be triggered, for sure. But you
gotta own your
part of it. For me, you have every trait of someone who is very
strongly in
denial. You create some whole drama out of a few comments I make about
opiates, feelings and bliss and seem convinced that you only use them to
give you bliss or something. I’m just pushing out a little energy in the
other direction. That’s all. Why do you seem to regard this as
some form of
abuse? I find you wrapped up tight, guy, really.

I make a comment – “If you experience bliss from an analgesic it
is because
your body is struggling to hold down a lot of feelings your ego
has decided
it doesn’t want to have” and you create from it “only emotionally
repressed
individuals receive any sort of high from opiates.” To me that’s
exaggeration. Ok, maybe not so much but it’s there. You also try
and justify
your own position by apparently scouring the net for some neurochemical
stuff that says it isn’t so. I mean, to me that’s just a total defense
reaction. I am not trying to create some big picture of how
things are, some
all-encompassing truth about addiction, my experience is that no
such thing
exists. I’m just pushing out a bit of energy. Yeah, maybe
neurochemists have
discovered how opiates work. Maybe. If so, it’s great. And I’m
happy to take
this new perspective in. And I’m happy to apologize if it’s upset you so
much. But, working around addicts, what I see time and again is that they
are either from high trauma backgrounds or are just acutely sensitive, ie
have trouble repressing feelings. To me there’s a pretty clear
relationship
between tendencies to opiate usage and the body’s ability to repress
feeling.

Now you’re going to take ibogaine, which you seem to feel is holding out
some kind of “cure” for your drug usage. Or maybe I’m reading you
wrong. I
certainly hope it’s good for you, man. And I don’t know what
iboga will do
for you personally, but what I do know is that it helps if you
are open to
honest self evaluation – that you can allow yourself to travel the many
corridors of the psyche, especially the ones where ordinarily it
looks a bit
scary. Plenty of people have taken the drug, seen some God or other, been
drug free for a few weeks or months, all totally valuable
experiences, and
then found themselves back using pretty soon. And a lot of people are
attracted to ibogaine because they think it’s some kind of treatment that
avoids formal rehab, avoids them having to be open and show their
feelings
in front of others. My experience is that it doesn’t really work
like that.

All in all, I’d like to be a friend to you. My intention is not
bad. I just
like to feel a bit of emotional reality in people so I put energy out and
see how it goes. Helps me feel connected to people, coz otherwise
it’s just
the mind putting out what it thinks you want to hear and I don’t
find that
so satisfying really. Just another game.

Nick

—–Original Message—–
From: Alan Hehe [mailto:a.h.veil68@hotmail.com]
Sent: 04 April 2006 04:34
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Pot calling the Kettle Black?

Nick…you are soooo full of shit. That’s exactly what you said, and
you’re lucky I don’t have the e-mail anymore or I’d shove it down your
lying, cyber throat!!!!!
Come on..Preston, someone…does anyone have that email, the
one where
I posted the medical info I think might have his actual statement
on it….I
would appreciate if someone could send it back to me. Almost word
for word
what you said was (grammatical errors included) “Opiate is an
analgesic. It
stops feeling. Only someone with alot of repressed emotions receive bliss
from analgesics, like opiates….” (you also said something about
ego-orientation)…then you said “if you can think of another reason I’d
love to hear it.”  Now I’m positive that I want nothing more to do with
you…so let sleeping dogs lie, or I swear I will rip you
apart…and that
way, you won’t have to “be manipulated anymore!” You dug your own
grave with
a drstically stupid statement, and you’re too full of yourself to just
say…”hey, I was wrong”. Now, for the second time, BYE!!!!!

From: “Nick Sandberg” <nick227@tiscali.co.uk>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Pot calling the Kettle Black?
Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2006 08:53:07 +0100

—–Original Message—–
From: Alan Hehe [mailto:a.h.veil68@hotmail.com]
Sent: 02 April 2006 17:32
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] Pot calling the Kettle Black?

Hey…uh, Biscuit Boy,
What’s the matter? Do you NOT like my debate with Nick, or do
you just
not like the fact that Ann paid me a compliment? Do you agree with Nick’s
idea that only emotionally repressed individuals receive any sort of high
from opiates? If you’ve got something to say, why not come out
and say it?
Have you never done opiates? Or any drugs? What gives you the
right to judge
Ann? Personally I don’t care if her comment was influened by a
whole gram of
Mexican brown! Better a nice compliment from someone high, than a
nasty one
from someone sober! Now, if I’ve misconstrued your intent, I
apologize, but
I would appreciate a logical explanation rather than a low-blow
insinuation.

Hi Alan,
only emotionally repressed individuals receive any sort of high from
opiates – I did not make such an extreme statement. I said there was a
relationship between the two, that the bliss experienced on
opiates relates
to the degree of ego-repressed feeling. You grab stuff,
exaggerate it to an
extreme position and then criticize your own interpretation.
Welcome to the
wonderful world of manipulation! I see a great career in media or
politics
opening up before you.
BTW, this IS the classic trait for someone who is using belief
patterns to
hold down feelings. If something challenges the belief then repressed
feelings start to rise “OMG, what if I’m really like so!” or whatever and
the mind acts to push the feelings back down again, rearranging
what is said
into something it can criticize and expel. Frankly, I also see
myself doing
it at times! Letting go of beliefs can be a toughie.
Nick

From:  biscuitboy714@aol.com
Reply-To:  ibogaine@mindvox.com
To:  ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject:  Re: [Ibogaine] Opiate effects
Date:  Sun, 02 Apr 2006 11:05:09 -0400
Yea Ann, tell us how much heroin you shot last night. He He I
couldn’t help it. I love you Mamma           Randy

—–Original Message—–
From: Alan Hehe <a.h.veil68@hotmail.com>
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Sat, 01 Apr 2006 11:15:03 -0500
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Opiate effects

Hey Ann,

Thank you for the compliment…Somebody’s got to try to counter
his crazy ideas with some sense. Feel free to write me anytime..I
really enjoy talking to people on this list and hearing their
stories…Oh, don’t tell anyone, but I studied semantics and debate
in high school! Just kidding…about the hush hush, as anyone will
be able to read this. Oh, heck–LOL! I’m 37, and High school is but
a distant, mainly unplesant experience…except when I would catch
my English teacher making grammatical or syntactical mistakes,
before they moved me into an A.P. college-level class…And no, I’m
not conceited, either..but I do enjoy debate! Everyone has certain
qualities at which they excel, and others at which they are
deficient. I make up for my skill in English by being a retard in
math! Plus, I couldn’t be that smart or I wouldn’t be here, looking
for a way out of the hell-hole I dug for myself….and despite
having a really shitty childhood, I take complete responsibility for
my current position in
life……………………………….Wishing you the best in
all…….Alan.

——–
From: “Ann B. Mullikin” <think@francomm.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Opiate effects
Date: Sat, 1 Apr 2006 10:04:20 -0500

No, I am not Nick but…..

Bravo, Alan.  I surely do appreciate the way you use your brain –
TO THINK AND TO REASON.  Its good stuff.  Keep on.

ann
think@francomm.com

—– Original Message —–
From: Alan Hehe
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Friday, March 31, 2006 4:49 PM
Subject: [Ibogaine] Opiate effects

Hey Nick,

I wanted to say that, although I was basically right, I believe
(and according to the research I’ve done) about the reason opiates
cause pleasure, I wasn’t entirely correct about the natural opiates
(dopamine,etc) having an effect on mood. They do have an affect on
mood..but then again, so does euphoria..in fact, it could be said to
be a mood unto itself. Here’s a little medical info for: Opiates
(heroin, morphine, etc.)

The human body naturally produces its own opiate-like substances
and uses them as neurotransmitters. These substances include
endorphins, enkephalins, and dynorphin, often collectively known as
endogenous opioids. Endogenous opioids modulate our reactions to
painful stimuli. They also regulate vital functions such as hunger
and thirst and are involved in mood control, immune response, and
other processes.

The reason that opiates such as heroin and morphine affect us so
powerfully is that these exogenous substances bind to the same
receptors as our endogenous opioids. There are three kinds of
receptors widely distributed throughout the brain: mu, delta, and
kappa receptors.

These receptors, through second messengers, influence the likelihood
that ion channels will open, which in certain cases reduces the
excitability of neurons. This reduced excitability is the likely
source of the euphoric effect of opiates and appears to be mediated
by the mu and delta receptors.

This euphoric effect also appears to involve another mechanism in
which the GABA-inhibitory interneurons of the ventral tegmental area
come into play. By attaching to their mu receptors, exogenous
opioids reduce the amount of GABA released (see animation).
Normally, GABA reduces the amount of dopamine released in the
nucleus accumbens. By inhibiting this inhibitor, the opiates
ultimately increase the amount of dopamine produced and the amount
of pleasure felt.

Chronic consumption of opiates inhibits the production of cAMP, but
this inhibition is offset in the long run by other cAMP production
mechanisms. When no opiates are available, this increased cAMP
production capacity comes to the fore and results in neural
hyperactivity and the sensation of craving the drug.

——–
Make FREE PC-to-PC calls with MSN Messenger. Get it now!
/]=———————————————————————=
[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands:
http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=
[/

——–
Find just what you’re after with the new, more precise MSN Search
– try it now!
/]=———————————————————————=
[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands:
http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=
[/

/]=————————————————————–
——-=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands:
http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]

\]=————————————————————–
——-=[/

Be one of the first to try Windows Live Mail
/]=—————————————————————
——=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html
[%]
\]=—————————————————————
——=[/

Play Trivia with MSN Messenger for a chance to win an XBOXT 360
prize pack!
/]=—————————————————————
——=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html
[%]
\]=—————————————————————
——=[/

/]=—————————————————————
——=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands:
http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]

\]=—————————————————————
——=[/

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: “Nick Sandberg” <nick227@tiscali.co.uk>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Napolean complex?
Date: April 4, 2006 at 7:41:50 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Preston,

I said, if I remember, “abusive language”, meaning swearing.

Nick

—–Original Message—–
From: Preston Peet [mailto:ptpeet@nyc.rr.com]
Sent: 04 April 2006 12:21
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Napolean complex?

I’d like to see more people become more aware of their inner
conflicts, but
the therapy I’m involved with is a totally humane process, it’s
not about
abusing people.<

Then why did you write what you did about abuse sometimes being
therapeutic
Nick?
—–
“If God dropped acid, would he see people?”  ~Steven Wright

Peace, love and lotsof respect.
Preston Peet
ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor Underground- the Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations,
Astonishing Archaeology and Hidden History
Editor Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Columnist HighTimes mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

snip-

/]=—————————————————————
——=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands:
http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]

\]=—————————————————————
——=[/

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: Crooked Eye <iboganaut420@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] OT! Eating cattle or food
Date: April 4, 2006 at 7:34:35 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

IS eating plants okay cause they don’t have faces?

Crooked Eye <iboganaut420@yahoo.com> wrote:
What about B-12?  Take vitamins I suppose?  Why even have incisors if we shouldn’t eat meat?  I don’t care if you don’t wanna, it’s more for me, but I fail to see why eating animals is wrong..  I would definitely prefer organic food, but unfortunately, not everyone can afford to buy such expensive meals…  Also, I am not big on pets either…  We are ALL animals…

Preston Peet <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com> wrote:
for me eating meat in a society where it’s unnecessary merely promotes the
fear/bloodthirsty addiction so prevalent in the Western world. I can see
eating meat in a society where there are no alternatives, but where I live
it’s easy to not eat meat, and I’m glad.
I still do dairy and eggs, but can’t eat anything that might lick it’s
fellow beings, or nuzzle them, or communicate in any way, shape or form with
one another, even chickens (which I’ve been told are ok to eat because
“they’re stupid.” If that were the only criteria for being ok to eat, I’d be
a cannibal). Again, this is only my own viewpoint, but there seems to be
something unenlightened, to me, how some folk can have “pets” but call
cattle mere “food,” making no connection to the living, breathing, thinking
creatures sharing the planet with us.

Butt, and it’s a great big butt, I can’t really fault anyone for their
eating habits beyond stating how I personally feel, particularly about
factory farming, inhumane treatment of our “food” and the wonton slaughter
of living creatures when it isn’t necessary for our survival, only to feed
our addiction to blood and flesh these days (Of course one couuld take this
to extreme and tell me plants are also living, but I limit my empathy and
eating ban to beings with eys I guess).
That’s because I’m…pro-choice at heart.

—–
“If God dropped acid, would he see people?” ~Steven Wright

Peace, love and lotsof respect.
Preston Peet
ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor Underground- the Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations,
Astonishing Archaeology and Hidden History
Editor Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Columnist HighTimes mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —–
From: Crooked Eye
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Tuesday, April 04, 2006 3:53 AM
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Whats a Republican?

Cow’s are tasty… If we aren’t supposed to eat animals, then why are they
made out of meat? 😀 I fail how to see eating cows equates to racism… I
eat a lot of cows, but I have a mixed family… If it makes you feel any
better we eat a lot of chickens, too.. I love turkey, the tryptophan makes
me sleepy…

Alan Hehe wrote:
Don’t call me Baby…well, you can…since you’re not close enough for me
to do anything about it! Plus, that’s a freedom, too…Just like my ability
to talk about pro-choice. As for your information, no, I don’t think the way
the abortion system is set up–but I absolutely believe in having the
right…And no, you don’t have 9 months to decide whether to have the rug
rat or not–there is a cut-off, a limit to when abortions can be performed.
And so you think, because cows aren’t pets, or aren’t ‘cute’, then it’s
okay to torture them? And to cut the balls of bulls off without any
anesthetic? To make chickens live in a cage so small they can barely turn
around? And George Bush–wanting to save lives! LOL! That’s the biggest joke
I’ve ever heard! But it figures; you’re not special..alot of the people in
this country are brain-washed by the constant disinformation they are
fed….Why do you think there are a hundred commercials warning of the
dangers of marijuana, one of the least harmful drugs known to man, but yet
maybe one out of those hundred about the truly dangerous drugs, like H or
Coke?
And you don’t have to be a hindu to have compassion for animals other
than cats and dogs, you dumb-ass red-neck! In some places they eat
dogs…would that be okay if they ate your dog? You know, I’m totally
wasting my time talking to you, I can already tell that you are way
undereducated, extremely prejudiced. Cows are just food. Are blacks just
niggers, too? God, I can’t stand fuckin’ red-necks like you, especially the
ones that actually think they’re smart. Once you start doing away with
freedoms, it’s all down-hill. Who’s going to decide what’s right and wrong?
You?! I would happily put a hollow-point 45 shell into my head if that
possibility existed..of course G.W.B. is quite the redneck himself, which is
why you probably like him. First of all, HE’s not fighting for anything. I
have respect for the soldiers; they don’t decide the mission, they just do
what they’re told. And how many babies do you think die while we were waging
a war we were totally lied to about? Or is that okay? You think the babies
over there even know what a terrorist is? This world is already
over-populated..if people like you ran things, the world would run out of
resources within a decade! The oh so precious children! Everyone starts out
as a child..some people, like you, remain one, in their minds, their whole
life. But those sweet children often grow up to be killers and rapists, and
often for no apparent reason! Strong belief does only one thing: close your
mind. Boy, that ibogaine is gonna have fun with you!!!!! Cows are just food!
Well, we’re just food, too…if a grizzly decides you look good! God, what
egotism! You claim to be a Christian (I do not) but you must have misssed
the part about not judging lest you be judged yourself…And I bet ibo’s
gonna drive that one home with a psychoactive sledgehammer! You’ve got your
response, but I really no longer wish to talk with you. I’ve spent too much
time arguing with all the fascists on this list, instead of hanging out with
the cool, in the know ,people: by that meaning knowing that the whole Govt.
is totally corrupt, actually controlled by a few wealthy and extremely
powerful people, and they constantly just feed us disinformation, while
manipulating the world through economic control, etc, and alot of other
things you wouldn’t understand. BYE< NOW, Billy BOY. Go get a burger!

From: “Billy J”
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Whats a Republican?
Date: Tue, 04 Apr 2006 02:19:25 -0400
>Hear this peace and take it to your Heart FRIEND.
>1st if we go back to Killing kids for the sins of their fathers
>(Child of a Rapist) Do you think that is more civilized then Raising
>Cattle for food,(Cattle are food “not Pets”) although you may be
>from India or somewhere that they worship your cows and even there
>fecal matter I hear! Now if your are at that junkger(Place) then I
>will have to say -well Al, Bless you, but when was the last time you
>had your precious cow go to war for YOUR FREEDOMS that I am sure you
>are enjoying- Yes?
> Allan , do you really love cows (the 4 legged ones that is) or
>are you in your 2nd or 3rd reincarnation and you where once a cow
>and you have come into this wierd mooing stage and you just could
>not figure it out.
> Ok That is sarcasm – Sorry< I’ll get serious.
>Oh Ya Your aborting a fetus-, and yes I know that in the USof A
>being the most civilized Nation that has usually voted anti-
>Christian ( just in case somebody didn’t let Everybody do what FEELs
>GOOD)
>Ya you can Have sex with anybody you want and then if a girl gets
>pregnant, or do you call it fetus something, oh well so shes
>pregnant you have 9 months to decide whether or not you what the
>little BLOB Because your fetus can be kicking up a storm and as long
>as you can keep its stupid( oh it,s brain isn’t functioning yet
>,right) well as long as you can keep its head inside the grown up
>fetus ( that would be the female, The pregnant one, knocked up one ,
>dumb one what ever you would call someone like that ( Maybe MOM)
>well just reach in and CRUSH ITS SCULL and or STICK A SYRINGE INTO
>THe Back of it HEAD JUST UNTIL ITS STOPS PUTTINGN UP A FIGHT, AND
>they do fight Allan, just go and ask your abortion doctor.– PARTIAL
>BIRTH ABORTION– VERY NICE–
> oH YA AND YOU KNOW WHAT ALLY BABY THAT STUPID WAR MOGER THAT YOU
>HAVE AS A PRESIDENT WOULD LIKE NOTHING MORE THAN TO SAVE PEOPLE BUT
>ALL YOU PEOPLE THAT GOD GAVE YOU FREE CHOICE HAVE DECIDED TO VOTE
>FOR THE REAL KILLERS-
> Have you any clue how many of your fetuses are done away with
>each year in the USA alone,, Allan Baby– way way more in 1 year
>than have been killed in ALL the World wars— How many do you think
>are rape and how many are just another form of birth control,, Your
>Planned Parenthood is a multi-Billion dollar industry that fights
>for you to have the freedom to get rid of your Babies- But They do
>not do it for free– They are rich.One more thing if we can justify
>killing because you THINK they don’t feel pain- Why not line up all
>us addicts right after a good whack and while we are feeling no pain
>BANG-
>Save a lot of tax dollars- The Meth Clinics would be Pissed though.
>
>Love Ya!
>
>Just Don’t say it is OK To Kill My Children- Or Yours
>
>B
>
>—-Original Message Follows—-
>From: “Alan Hehe”
>Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
>To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
>Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] RE: [Pornography,psychology,Choice,force,) 2
>cents
>Date: Tue, 04 Apr 2006 01:25:21 -0400
>MIME-Version: 1.0
>Received: from tomts30-srv.bellnexxia.net ([209.226.175.104]) by
>bay0-pamc1-f3.bay0.hotmail.com with Microsoft
>SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Mon, 3 Apr 2006 22:27:22 -0700
>Received: from toip4.bellnexxia.net ([209.226.175.87]) by
>tomts30-srv.bellnexxia.net (InterMail vM.5.01.06.13
>201-253-122-130-113-20050324) with ESMTP id
><20060404052721.IXFI18550.tomts30-srv.bellnexxia.net@toip4.bellnexxia.net>
> for ; Tue, 4 Apr 2006 01:27:21
>-0400
>Received: from tanelorn.mindvox.com (HELO mail.mindvox.com)
>([64.124.179.118]) by toip4.bellnexxia.net with ESMTP; 04 Apr 2006
>01:27:16 -0400
>Received: (qmail 1073 invoked by uid 513); 4 Apr 2006 01:27:15 -0400
>Received: (qmail 1067 invoked by uid 514); 4 Apr 2006 01:27:15 -0400
>X-Message-Info: moY6YVwXQ46hfM+PXD+r03SFMVOY3E1daJYU/Sm1Nkw=
>Mailing-List: contact ibogaine-help@mindvox.com; run by ezmlm
>Precedence: bulk
>X-No-Archive: yes
>List-Post:
>List-Help:
>List-Unsubscribe:
>List-Subscribe:
>Delivered-To: mailing list ibogaine@mindvox.com
>X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.1 required=4.0
>X-Antivirus-MYDOMAIN-Mail-From: a.h.veil68@hotmail.com via
>tanelorn.mindvox.com
>X-Antivirus-MYDOMAIN: 1.25-st-qms
>(Clear:RC:0(65.54.224.26):SA:0(-2.1/4.0):. Processed in 8.08646 secs
>Process 1055)
>Return-Path:
>ibogaine-return-23280-billjohnson6=sympatico.ca@mindvox.com
>X-OriginalArrivalTime: 04 Apr 2006 05:27:22.0868 (UTC)
>FILETIME=[7363CB40:01C657A8]
>
>
>
> I gotta take a piece of this one. Okay, Mr. Anti-choice, let me
>ask you this: do you eat meat? If not, then good for you. If so,
>have you ever though about the actual, truly painful, totally
>inhumane treatment we put animals through? And usually don’t think
>twice about it…It’s people like George Bush who make me wish
>sometimes that God would hurl an asteroid at us! It’s “God forbid
>one human foetus (who does not feel a thing if the abortion is done
>in a timely manner, according to the latest research, because their
>nervous system isn’t nearly fully developed) should perish, no
>matter if it was caused by a rape or is probably going to be born
>into alot of suffering–but while I’m on my high horse, cut me a
>piece o that cow off and cook it up! It’s sheer egotism that we
>believe that humans are so damned
>important, but it’s okay if we torture animals, ruin the planet, and
>make other people adhere to our beliefs!!! We’re not that important!
>And if you believe in a God and the soul, then you know that–if the
>foetus even has a soul yet, which I don’t believe it does..I believe
>the soul enters with the first breath, and leaves with the
>last–that baby is just going back into the arms of God! There is no
>death! And since they don’t experience pain, all it becomes is
>something for people like you to feel self righteous about!
>Personally, I think everyone should smoke pot, and would benefit
>from it (except for a few cases), but how would you like it if I
>MADE you smoke it? That is, if you don’t, and don’t like it. Or
>let’s say you eat meat, but I think it’s just as evil to do that as
>to allow abortions, so I outlawed meat–would that be okay with you?
>And the cliff analogy is just stupid–not
>the same thing at all. But yes, I think if a person is truly
>miserable, and wants to die, I would try to talk them out of it, but
>I would never stop them by force. That’s called LACK OF FREEDOM. And
>if we didn’t make mistakes, how would we ever learn? To be told
>something is wrong is one thing..you can tell a person, fire will
>burn you..but until they get burned, they will not truly understand,
>and that’s what life is all about–learning. No, I don’t like to see
>foetus’ abortions–I think prevention is the answer….But
>sometimes, I believe it is ‘the best choice’. If everyone like you
>had their way, there really would be NO ROOM AT ALL left!!! We’re
>already sooo over-populated! It’s like I heard some character say in
>a movie recently..”everybody’s kids are so special…it makes you
>wonder where all the normal adults come from”. Even God believes in
>freedom of choice! That’s why he gave
>us FREE WILL. You’re a Republican, aren’t you? And you probably
>think that war-mongering asshole of a President is the best-thing
>since sliced bread, eh? It’s okay to kill, as long as it’s not a
>precious child…even though that child may grow up to be The Son of
>Sam! well…”take me by the ham, no good, no evil, no give a
>damn!” And the Govt. is lying to you! About just about everything.
>Peace, love, and freedom. Life is too mysterious to take it so
>serious!
>
>
>
>
>
>
>From: “Billy J”
>Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
>To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
>Subject: [Ibogaine] RE: [Pornography,psychology,Choice,force,) 2
>cents
>Date: Sun, 02 Apr 2006 21:45:39 -0400
> >Well It sounds like this place is really mixing it up so I would
> >like to add a little REALITY TO YOU PRO CHOICERS, I am sure glad I
> >was not an abortion’ althought I have had my moments.
> >Yes My Mom was a young Mom and if she had a choice I think that I
> >would have no Grandkids, or be babbleing on here.
> > I too have an attitude, It is about the only thing in this
> >world that I really have control over.
> >Tiger– How well did you do with making ALL your own Choices,
> >Instead of doing
>what your were told to do? Not meant to be a shot
> >at you personally, but I am with the Right or Wrong crowd- No such
> >thing as grey.
> > I do know that some people may have grown up believing that
>wrong
> >was right and right was wrong, but I Think that I pretty much knew
> >when I was stepping out of line and doing wrong.
> >It is (as most believe) My God , no not God, but My worldly given
> >Right- to do wrong- It’s my life and if I want to screw it up then
> >stay out of my way. And you know what I had a lot of sooo called
> >friends that did just that WATCHED, AS i WAS Killing myself and
> >ruining a lot of lifes.
> >But O O O never no no no neverdare step on somebodys toes because
> >you know what they have a choice, Just like those poor little
>Crack
> >%$^&%$ Women that degrade themselves( and me
>myself) due to
> >everybody. But Never No No Never dare tell somebody or force
>someone
> >to get some help that they may never ever make it to on their own,
> >due to something called “Pride” “Shame” “Guilt”
> >Whatever holds them back. They may end up DEAD and it would be
>their
> >own fault, because you know how STRONG us druggies are, and if
>that
> >person dies because he had a choice to get help and refused or
>just
> >couldn’t make it on his/her own and needed YOU (of course they
> >didn’t tell you that).
> >I am sorry but I BELIEVE that if you Love Someone or even care a
> >little, and you see them walking off a cliff and YOU have an
> >opportunity to stop them, and you don’t- Can you truelly say it
>was
> >their own fault?
> >Pornography- I never met too many Normal people that would find it
> >neccesary to take their
>cloths off for the public to see. Totally
> >wrong and if you had your own kids you might not think it too cool
> >having your buddy beating off while checking out your little girl.
> >Not nice eh Billy but P–sy T-ts are not meant for anyone except
>who
> >they belong to and their mate.
> >
> >Bye For Now, That stuff is about the biggest trigger going for any
> >downfall
> >
> >Bill
> >—-Original Message Follows—-
> >From: “Nick Sandberg”
> >Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
> >To:
> >Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Opiates
> >Date: Sun, 2 Apr 2006 10:24:07 +0100
> >MIME-Version: 1.0
> >Received: from tomts21-srv.bellnexxia.net ([209.226.175.183]) by
> >bay0-pamc1-f11.bay0.hotmail.com with Microsoft
> >SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Sun, 2 Apr 2006 05:38:59
>-0700
> >Received: from toip5.bellnexxia.net ([209.226.175.88]) by
> >tomts21-srv.bellnexxia.net (InterMail vM.5.01.06.13
> >201-253-122-130-113-20050324) with ESMTP id
> ><20060402123858.HZPV14030.tomts21-srv.bellnexxia.net@toip5.bellnexxia.net>
> > for ; Sun, 2 Apr 2006
>08:38:58
> >-0400
> >Received: from tanelorn.mindvox.com (HELO mail.mindvox.com)
> >([64.124.179.118]) by toip5.bellnexxia.net with ESMTP; 02 Apr
>2006
> >08:38:58 -0400
> >Received: (qmail 16967 invoked by uid 513); 2 Apr 2006 08:38:55
> >-0400
> >Received: (qmail 16961 invoked by uid
>514); 2 Apr 2006 08:38:55
> >-0400
> >X-Message-Info: moY6YVwXQ44WAJnUvaOEtK2hXKGagKAsshDbZwj7pSc=
> >Mailing-List: contact ibogaine-help@mindvox.com; run by ezmlm
> >Precedence: bulk
> >X-No-Archive: yes
> >List-Post:
> >List-Help:
> >List-Unsubscribe:
> >List-Subscribe:
> >Delivered-To: mailing list ibogaine@mindvox.com
> >X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.3 required=4.0
> >X-Antivirus-MYDOMAIN-Mail-From: nick227@tiscali.co.uk via
> >tanelorn.mindvox.com
> >X-Antivirus-MYDOMAIN: 1.25-st-qms
> >(Clear:RC:0(212.74.114.37):SA:0(-2.3/4.0):. Processed in 2.781926
> >secs Process 16953)
> >X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true
> >X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result:
>AQAAAJ0kL0SDE4UI
> >X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.6604 (9.0.2911.0)
> >Return-Path:
> >ibogaine-return-23233-billjohnson6=sympatico.ca@mindvox.com
> >X-OriginalArrivalTime: 02 Apr 2006 12:38:59.0373 (UTC)
> >FILETIME=[6A155DD0:01C65652]
> >
> >
> > —–Original Message—–
> > From: Tiger Lisa [mailto:tigerlisa@gmail.com]
> > Sent: 01 April 2006 13:44
> > To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
> > Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Opiates
> >
> >
> > Dear Nick,
> > Here’ the part I don’t understand.
> >
> > You wrote,
> > Personally, my position is…I think rising awareness is GOOD.
>I
> >would
> >love to see more people in groups, going through their stuff,
> >becoming more
> >aware of their
>personal interior dynamic, and moving forward in
> >life. But,
> >sadly, I’m not in a position to compel people to do this.
> >
> > Why would you ever want to COMPEL anyone to do ANYTHING? Do you
> >really
> >believe that would be useful, effective, helpful? Do you think
> >people
> >actually benefit from, and grow from, being FORCED to do anything?
> >
> > That is a parent-child model of interaction (and not a
> >particularly
> >skillful one, IMO), and it’s going to reinforce childlike,
> >rebellious and
> >victim behavior (NOT self-awareness!) in the one so compelled, as
> >well as
> >reinforcing bullying behavior and disprespectful and righteous
> >attitudes
> >(NOT increased compassion or awareness) in the one doing the
> >compelling. A
> >”lose-lose” interaction–no one
>wins!
> >
> > Myself, I believe CHOICE is the name of the game. With choice
> >comes
> >responsibility, self-responsibility and a loss of the victim
> >consciousness
> >that drives continued reactive and unconscious behavior.
> >
> > So in a nutshell: Saying something (like awarenss) is GOOD is

=== message truncated ===

Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. Make PC-to-Phone Calls to the US (and 30+ countries) for 2�/min or less.

New Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. Call regular phones from your PC and save big.

From: Crooked Eye <iboganaut420@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] OT! Eating cattle or food
Date: April 4, 2006 at 7:32:17 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

What about B-12?  Take vitamins I suppose?  Why even have incisors if we shouldn’t eat meat?  I don’t care if you don’t wanna, it’s more for me, but I fail to see why eating animals is wrong..  I would definitely prefer organic food, but unfortunately, not everyone can afford to buy such expensive meals…  Also, I am not big on pets either…  We are ALL animals…

Preston Peet <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com> wrote:
for me eating meat in a society where it’s unnecessary merely promotes the
fear/bloodthirsty addiction so prevalent in the Western world. I can see
eating meat in a society where there are no alternatives, but where I live
it’s easy to not eat meat, and I’m glad.
I still do dairy and eggs, but can’t eat anything that might lick it’s
fellow beings, or nuzzle them, or communicate in any way, shape or form with
one another, even chickens (which I’ve been told are ok to eat because
“they’re stupid.” If that were the only criteria for being ok to eat, I’d be
a cannibal). Again, this is only my own viewpoint, but there seems to be
something unenlightened, to me, how some folk can have “pets” but call
cattle mere “food,” making no connection to the living, breathing, thinking
creatures sharing the planet with us.

Butt, and it’s a great big butt, I can’t really fault anyone for their
eating habits beyond stating how I personally feel, particularly about
factory farming, inhumane treatment of our “food” and the wonton slaughter
of living creatures when it isn’t necessary for our survival, only to feed
our addiction to blood and flesh these days (Of course one couuld take this
to extreme and tell me plants are also living, but I limit my empathy and
eating ban to beings with eys I guess).
That’s because I’m…pro-choice at heart.

—–
“If God dropped acid, would he see people?” ~Steven Wright

Peace, love and lotsof respect.
Preston Peet
ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor Underground- the Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations,
Astonishing Archaeology and Hidden History
Editor Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Columnist HighTimes mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —–
From: Crooked Eye
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Tuesday, April 04, 2006 3:53 AM
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Whats a Republican?

Cow’s are tasty… If we aren’t supposed to eat animals, then why are they
made out of meat? 😀 I fail how to see eating cows equates to racism… I
eat a lot of cows, but I have a mixed family… If it makes you feel any
better we eat a lot of chickens, too.. I love turkey, the tryptophan makes
me sleepy…

Alan Hehe wrote:
Don’t call me Baby…well, you can…since you’re not close enough for me
to do anything about it! Plus, that’s a freedom, too…Just like my ability
to talk about pro-choice. As for your information, no, I don’t think the way
the abortion system is set up–but I absolutely believe in having the
right…And no, you don’t have 9 months to decide whether to have the rug
rat or not–there is a cut-off, a limit to when abortions can be performed.
And so you think, because cows aren’t pets, or aren’t ‘cute’, then it’s
okay to torture them? And to cut the balls of bulls off without any
anesthetic? To make chickens live in a cage so small they can barely turn
around? And George Bush–wanting to save lives! LOL! That’s the biggest joke
I’ve ever heard! But it figures; you’re not special..alot of the people in
this country are brain-washed by the constant disinformation they are
fed….Why do you think there are a hundred commercials warning of the
dangers of marijuana, one of the least harmful drugs known to man, but yet
maybe one out of those hundred about the truly dangerous drugs, like H or
Coke?
And you don’t have to be a hindu to have compassion for animals other
than cats and dogs, you dumb-ass red-neck! In some places they eat
dogs…would that be okay if they ate your dog? You know, I’m totally
wasting my time talking to you, I can already tell that you are way
undereducated, extremely prejudiced. Cows are just food. Are blacks just
niggers, too? God, I can’t stand fuckin’ red-necks like you, especially the
ones that actually think they’re smart. Once you start doing away with
freedoms, it’s all down-hill. Who’s going to decide what’s right and wrong?
You?! I would happily put a hollow-point 45 shell into my head if that
possibility existed..of course G.W.B. is quite the redneck himself, which is
why you probably like him. First of all, HE’s not fighting for anything. I
have respect for the soldiers; they don’t decide the mission, they just do
what they’re told. And how many babies do you think die while we were waging
a war we were totally lied to about? Or is that okay? You think the babies
over there even know what a terrorist is? This world is already
over-populated..if people like you ran things, the world would run out of
resources within a decade! The oh so precious children! Everyone starts out
as a child..some people, like you, remain one, in their minds, their whole
life. But those sweet children often grow up to be killers and rapists, and
often for no apparent reason! Strong belief does only one thing: close your
mind. Boy, that ibogaine is gonna have fun with you!!!!! Cows are just food!
Well, we’re just food, too…if a grizzly decides you look good! God, what
egotism! You claim to be a Christian (I do not) but you must have misssed
the part about not judging lest you be judged yourself…And I bet ibo’s
gonna drive that one home with a psychoactive sledgehammer! You’ve got your
response, but I really no longer wish to talk with you. I’ve spent too much
time arguing with all the fascists on this list, instead of hanging out with
the cool, in the know ,people: by that meaning knowing that the whole Govt.
is totally corrupt, actually controlled by a few wealthy and extremely
powerful people, and they constantly just feed us disinformation, while
manipulating the world through economic control, etc, and alot of other
things you wouldn’t understand. BYE< NOW, Billy BOY. Go get a burger!

From: “Billy J”
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Whats a Republican?
Date: Tue, 04 Apr 2006 02:19:25 -0400
>Hear this peace and take it to your Heart FRIEND.
>1st if we go back to Killing kids for the sins of their fathers
>(Child of a Rapist) Do you think that is more civilized then Raising
>Cattle for food,(Cattle are food “not Pets”) although you may be
>from India or somewhere that they worship your cows and even there
>fecal matter I hear! Now if your are at that junkger(Place) then I
>will have to say -well Al, Bless you, but when was the last time you
>had your precious cow go to war for YOUR FREEDOMS that I am sure you
>are enjoying- Yes?
> Allan , do you really love cows (the 4 legged ones that is) or
>are you in your 2nd or 3rd reincarnation and you where once a cow
>and you have come into this wierd mooing stage and you just could
>not figure it out.
> Ok That is sarcasm – Sorry< I’ll get serious.
>Oh Ya Your aborting a fetus-, and yes I know that in the USof A
>being the most civilized Nation that has usually voted anti-
>Christian ( just in case somebody didn’t let Everybody do what FEELs
>GOOD)
>Ya you can Have sex with anybody you want and then if a girl gets
>pregnant, or do you call it fetus something, oh well so shes
>pregnant you have 9 months to decide whether or not you what the
>little BLOB Because your fetus can be kicking up a storm and as long
>as you can keep its stupid( oh it,s brain isn’t functioning yet
>,right) well as long as you can keep its head inside the grown up
>fetus ( that would be the female, The pregnant one, knocked up one ,
>dumb one what ever you would call someone like that ( Maybe MOM)
>well just reach in and CRUSH ITS SCULL and or STICK A SYRINGE INTO
>THe Back of it HEAD JUST UNTIL ITS STOPS PUTTINGN UP A FIGHT, AND
>they do fight Allan, just go and ask your abortion doctor.– PARTIAL
>BIRTH ABORTION– VERY NICE–
> oH YA AND YOU KNOW WHAT ALLY BABY THAT STUPID WAR MOGER THAT YOU
>HAVE AS A PRESIDENT WOULD LIKE NOTHING MORE THAN TO SAVE PEOPLE BUT
>ALL YOU PEOPLE THAT GOD GAVE YOU FREE CHOICE HAVE DECIDED TO VOTE
>FOR THE REAL KILLERS-
> Have you any clue how many of your fetuses are done away with
>each year in the USA alone,, Allan Baby– way way more in 1 year
>than have been killed in ALL the World wars— How many do you think
>are rape and how many are just another form of birth control,, Your
>Planned Parenthood is a multi-Billion dollar industry that fights
>for you to have the freedom to get rid of your Babies- But They do
>not do it for free– They are rich.One more thing if we can justify
>killing because you THINK they don’t feel pain- Why not line up all
>us addicts right after a good whack and while we are feeling no pain
>BANG-
>Save a lot of tax dollars- The Meth Clinics would be Pissed though.
>
>Love Ya!
>
>Just Don’t say it is OK To Kill My Children- Or Yours
>
>B
>
>—-Original Message Follows—-
>From: “Alan Hehe”
>Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
>To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
>Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] RE: [Pornography,psychology,Choice,force,) 2
>cents
>Date: Tue, 04 Apr 2006 01:25:21 -0400
>MIME-Version: 1.0
>Received: from tomts30-srv.bellnexxia.net ([209.226.175.104]) by
>bay0-pamc1-f3.bay0.hotmail.com with Microsoft
>SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Mon, 3 Apr 2006 22:27:22 -0700
>Received: from toip4.bellnexxia.net ([209.226.175.87]) by
>tomts30-srv.bellnexxia.net (InterMail vM.5.01.06.13
>201-253-122-130-113-20050324) with ESMTP id
><20060404052721.IXFI18550.tomts30-srv.bellnexxia.net@toip4.bellnexxia.net>
> for ; Tue, 4 Apr 2006 01:27:21
>-0400
>Received: from tanelorn.mindvox.com (HELO mail.mindvox.com)
>([64.124.179.118]) by toip4.bellnexxia.net with ESMTP; 04 Apr 2006
>01:27:16 -0400
>Received: (qmail 1073 invoked by uid 513); 4 Apr 2006 01:27:15 -0400
>Received: (qmail 1067 invoked by uid 514); 4 Apr 2006 01:27:15 -0400
>X-Message-Info: moY6YVwXQ46hfM+PXD+r03SFMVOY3E1daJYU/Sm1Nkw=
>Mailing-List: contact ibogaine-help@mindvox.com; run by ezmlm
>Precedence: bulk
>X-No-Archive: yes
>List-Post:
>List-Help:
>List-Unsubscribe:
>List-Subscribe:
>Delivered-To: mailing list ibogaine@mindvox.com
>X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.1 required=4.0
>X-Antivirus-MYDOMAIN-Mail-From: a.h.veil68@hotmail.com via
>tanelorn.mindvox.com
>X-Antivirus-MYDOMAIN: 1.25-st-qms
>(Clear:RC:0(65.54.224.26):SA:0(-2.1/4.0):. Processed in 8.08646 secs
>Process 1055)
>Return-Path:
>ibogaine-return-23280-billjohnson6=sympatico.ca@mindvox.com
>X-OriginalArrivalTime: 04 Apr 2006 05:27:22.0868 (UTC)
>FILETIME=[7363CB40:01C657A8]
>
>
>
> I gotta take a piece of this one. Okay, Mr. Anti-choice, let me
>ask you this: do you eat meat? If not, then good for you. If so,
>have you ever though about the actual, truly painful, totally
>inhumane treatment we put animals through? And usually don’t think
>twice about it…It’s people like George Bush who make me wish
>sometimes that God would hurl an asteroid at us! It’s “God forbid
>one human foetus (who does not feel a thing if the abortion is done
>in a timely manner, according to the latest research, because their
>nervous system isn’t nearly fully developed) should perish, no
>matter if it was caused by a rape or is probably going to be born
>into alot of suffering–but while I’m on my high horse, cut me a
>piece o that cow off and cook it up! It’s sheer egotism that we
>believe that humans are so damned
>important, but it’s okay if we torture animals, ruin the planet, and
>make other people adhere to our beliefs!!! We’re not that important!
>And if you believe in a God and the soul, then you know that–if the
>foetus even has a soul yet, which I don’t believe it does..I believe
>the soul enters with the first breath, and leaves with the
>last–that baby is just going back into the arms of God! There is no
>death! And since they don’t experience pain, all it becomes is
>something for people like you to feel self righteous about!
>Personally, I think everyone should smoke pot, and would benefit
>from it (except for a few cases), but how would you like it if I
>MADE you smoke it? That is, if you don’t, and don’t like it. Or
>let’s say you eat meat, but I think it’s just as evil to do that as
>to allow abortions, so I outlawed meat–would that be okay with you?
>And the cliff analogy is just stupid–not
>the same thing at all. But yes, I think if a person is truly
>miserable, and wants to die, I would try to talk them out of it, but
>I would never stop them by force. That’s called LACK OF FREEDOM. And
>if we didn’t make mistakes, how would we ever learn? To be told
>something is wrong is one thing..you can tell a person, fire will
>burn you..but until they get burned, they will not truly understand,
>and that’s what life is all about–learning. No, I don’t like to see
>foetus’ abortions–I think prevention is the answer….But
>sometimes, I believe it is ‘the best choice’. If everyone like you
>had their way, there really would be NO ROOM AT ALL left!!! We’re
>already sooo over-populated! It’s like I heard some character say in
>a movie recently..”everybody’s kids are so special…it makes you
>wonder where all the normal adults come from”. Even God believes in
>freedom of choice! That’s why he gave
>us FREE WILL. You’re a Republican, aren’t you? And you probably
>think that war-mongering asshole of a President is the best-thing
>since sliced bread, eh? It’s okay to kill, as long as it’s not a
>precious child…even though that child may grow up to be The Son of
>Sam! well…”take me by the ham, no good, no evil, no give a
>damn!” And the Govt. is lying to you! About just about everything.
>Peace, love, and freedom. Life is too mysterious to take it so
>serious!
>
>
>
>
>
>
>From: “Billy J”
>Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
>To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
>Subject: [Ibogaine] RE: [Pornography,psychology,Choice,force,) 2
>cents
>Date: Sun, 02 Apr 2006 21:45:39 -0400
> >Well It sounds like this place is really mixing it up so I would
> >like to add a little REALITY TO YOU PRO CHOICERS, I am sure glad I
> >was not an abortion’ althought I have had my moments.
> >Yes My Mom was a young Mom and if she had a choice I think that I
> >would have no Grandkids, or be babbleing on here.
> > I too have an attitude, It is about the only thing in this
> >world that I really have control over.
> >Tiger– How well did you do with making ALL your own Choices,
> >Instead of doing
>what your were told to do? Not meant to be a shot
> >at you personally, but I am with the Right or Wrong crowd- No such
> >thing as grey.
> > I do know that some people may have grown up believing that
>wrong
> >was right and right was wrong, but I Think that I pretty much knew
> >when I was stepping out of line and doing wrong.
> >It is (as most believe) My God , no not God, but My worldly given
> >Right- to do wrong- It’s my life and if I want to screw it up then
> >stay out of my way. And you know what I had a lot of sooo called
> >friends that did just that WATCHED, AS i WAS Killing myself and
> >ruining a lot of lifes.
> >But O O O never no no no neverdare step on somebodys toes because
> >you know what they have a choice, Just like those poor little
>Crack
> >%$^&%$ Women that degrade themselves( and me
>myself) due to
> >everybody. But Never No No Never dare tell somebody or force
>someone
> >to get some help that they may never ever make it to on their own,
> >due to something called “Pride” “Shame” “Guilt”
> >Whatever holds them back. They may end up DEAD and it would be
>their
> >own fault, because you know how STRONG us druggies are, and if
>that
> >person dies because he had a choice to get help and refused or
>just
> >couldn’t make it on his/her own and needed YOU (of course they
> >didn’t tell you that).
> >I am sorry but I BELIEVE that if you Love Someone or even care a
> >little, and you see them walking off a cliff and YOU have an
> >opportunity to stop them, and you don’t- Can you truelly say it
>was
> >their own fault?
> >Pornography- I never met too many Normal people that would find it
> >neccesary to take their
>cloths off for the public to see. Totally
> >wrong and if you had your own kids you might not think it too cool
> >having your buddy beating off while checking out your little girl.
> >Not nice eh Billy but P–sy T-ts are not meant for anyone except
>who
> >they belong to and their mate.
> >
> >Bye For Now, That stuff is about the biggest trigger going for any
> >downfall
> >
> >Bill
> >—-Original Message Follows—-
> >From: “Nick Sandberg”
> >Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
> >To:
> >Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Opiates
> >Date: Sun, 2 Apr 2006 10:24:07 +0100
> >MIME-Version: 1.0
> >Received: from tomts21-srv.bellnexxia.net ([209.226.175.183]) by
> >bay0-pamc1-f11.bay0.hotmail.com with Microsoft
> >SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Sun, 2 Apr 2006 05:38:59
>-0700
> >Received: from toip5.bellnexxia.net ([209.226.175.88]) by
> >tomts21-srv.bellnexxia.net (InterMail vM.5.01.06.13
> >201-253-122-130-113-20050324) with ESMTP id
> ><20060402123858.HZPV14030.tomts21-srv.bellnexxia.net@toip5.bellnexxia.net>
> > for ; Sun, 2 Apr 2006
>08:38:58
> >-0400
> >Received: from tanelorn.mindvox.com (HELO mail.mindvox.com)
> >([64.124.179.118]) by toip5.bellnexxia.net with ESMTP; 02 Apr
>2006
> >08:38:58 -0400
> >Received: (qmail 16967 invoked by uid 513); 2 Apr 2006 08:38:55
> >-0400
> >Received: (qmail 16961 invoked by uid
>514); 2 Apr 2006 08:38:55
> >-0400
> >X-Message-Info: moY6YVwXQ44WAJnUvaOEtK2hXKGagKAsshDbZwj7pSc=
> >Mailing-List: contact ibogaine-help@mindvox.com; run by ezmlm
> >Precedence: bulk
> >X-No-Archive: yes
> >List-Post:
> >List-Help:
> >List-Unsubscribe:
> >List-Subscribe:
> >Delivered-To: mailing list ibogaine@mindvox.com
> >X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.3 required=4.0
> >X-Antivirus-MYDOMAIN-Mail-From: nick227@tiscali.co.uk via
> >tanelorn.mindvox.com
> >X-Antivirus-MYDOMAIN: 1.25-st-qms
> >(Clear:RC:0(212.74.114.37):SA:0(-2.3/4.0):. Processed in 2.781926
> >secs Process 16953)
> >X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true
> >X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result:
>AQAAAJ0kL0SDE4UI
> >X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.6604 (9.0.2911.0)
> >Return-Path:
> >ibogaine-return-23233-billjohnson6=sympatico.ca@mindvox.com
> >X-OriginalArrivalTime: 02 Apr 2006 12:38:59.0373 (UTC)
> >FILETIME=[6A155DD0:01C65652]
> >
> >
> > —–Original Message—–
> > From: Tiger Lisa [mailto:tigerlisa@gmail.com]
> > Sent: 01 April 2006 13:44
> > To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
> > Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Opiates
> >
> >
> > Dear Nick,
> > Here’ the part I don’t understand.
> >
> > You wrote,
> > Personally, my position is…I think rising awareness is GOOD.
>I
> >would
> >love to see more people in groups, going through their stuff,
> >becoming more
> >aware of their
>personal interior dynamic, and moving forward in
> >life. But,
> >sadly, I’m not in a position to compel people to do this.
> >
> > Why would you ever want to COMPEL anyone to do ANYTHING? Do you
> >really
> >believe that would be useful, effective, helpful? Do you think
> >people
> >actually benefit from, and grow from, being FORCED to do anything?
> >
> > That is a parent-child model of interaction (and not a
> >particularly
> >skillful one, IMO), and it’s going to reinforce childlike,
> >rebellious and
> >victim behavior (NOT self-awareness!) in the one so compelled, as
> >well as
> >reinforcing bullying behavior and disprespectful and righteous
> >attitudes
> >(NOT increased compassion or awareness) in the one doing the
> >compelling. A
> >”lose-lose” interaction–no one
>wins!
> >
> > Myself, I believe CHOICE is the name of the game. With choice
> >comes
> >responsibility, self-responsibility and a loss of the victim
> >consciousness
> >that drives continued reactive and unconscious behavior.
> >
> > So in a nutshell: Saying something (like awarenss) is GOOD is

=== message truncated ===

Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. Make PC-to-Phone Calls to the US (and 30+ countries) for 2¢/min or less.

From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Napolean complex?
Date: April 4, 2006 at 7:21:20 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I’d like to see more people become more aware of their inner conflicts, but the therapy I’m involved with is a totally humane process, it’s not about abusing people.<

Then why did you write what you did about abuse sometimes being therapeutic Nick?
—–
“If God dropped acid, would he see people?”  ~Steven Wright

Peace, love and lotsof respect.
Preston Peet
ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor Underground- the Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations, Astonishing Archaeology and Hidden History
Editor Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Columnist HighTimes mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

snip-

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Pot calling the Kettle Black?
Date: April 4, 2006 at 7:19:48 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

But, working around addicts, what I see time and again is that they are either from high trauma backgrounds or are just acutely sensitive, ie have trouble repressing feelings. To me there’s a pretty clear relationship between tendencies to opiate usage and the body’s ability to repress feeling.<

And if this is the case Nick, why out of curiosity is this necessarily a bad thing? Or is it? Or are there gray areas here in your view?

—–
“If God dropped acid, would he see people?”  ~Steven Wright

Peace, love and lotsof respect.
Preston Peet
ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor Underground- the Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations, Astonishing Archaeology and Hidden History
Editor Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Columnist HighTimes mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —– From: Nick Sandberg
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Tuesday, April 04, 2006 5:01 AM
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Pot calling the Kettle Black?

Alan,

To be honest, I find you wrapped up so tight I am a bit scared to even communicate with you. I don’t know where things will go for you. I mean, just the suggestion that you are using opiates to hold down feelings and you’re at like defcon2 or something. Why not just check out why what I write brings up so much feeling in you? You think anger is created by events external to yourself? It can be triggered, for sure. But you gotta own your part of it. For me, you have every trait of someone who is very strongly in denial. You create some whole drama out of a few comments I make about opiates, feelings and bliss and seem convinced that you only use them to give you bliss or something. I’m just pushing out a little energy in the other direction. That’s all. Why do you seem to regard this as some form of abuse? I find you wrapped up tight, guy, really.

I make a comment – “If you experience bliss from an analgesic it is because your body is struggling to hold down a lot of feelings your ego has decided it doesn’t want to have” and you create from it “only emotionally repressed individuals receive any sort of high from opiates.” To me that’s exaggeration. Ok, maybe not so much but it’s there. You also try and justify your own position by apparently scouring the net for some neurochemical stuff that says it isn’t so. I mean, to me that’s just a total defense reaction. I am not trying to create some big picture of how things are, some all-encompassing truth about addiction, my experience is that no such thing exists. I’m just pushing out a bit of energy. Yeah, maybe neurochemists have discovered how opiates work. Maybe. If so, it’s great. And I’m happy to take this new perspective in. And I’m happy to apologize if it’s upset you so much. But, working around addicts, what I see time and again is that they are either from high trauma backgrounds or are just acutely sensitive, ie have trouble repressing feelings. To me there’s a pretty clear relationship between tendencies to opiate usage and the body’s ability to repress feeling.

Now you’re going to take ibogaine, which you seem to feel is holding out some kind of “cure” for your drug usage. Or maybe I’m reading you wrong. I certainly hope it’s good for you, man. And I don’t know what iboga will do for you personally, but what I do know is that it helps if you are open to honest self evaluation – that you can allow yourself to travel the many corridors of the psyche, especially the ones where ordinarily it looks a bit scary. Plenty of people have taken the drug, seen some God or other, been drug free for a few weeks or months, all totally valuable experiences, and then found themselves back using pretty soon. And a lot of people are attracted to ibogaine because they think it’s some kind of treatment that avoids formal rehab, avoids them having to be open and show their feelings in front of others. My experience is that it doesn’t really work like that.

All in all, I’d like to be a friend to you. My intention is not bad. I just like to feel a bit of emotional reality in people so I put energy out and see how it goes. Helps me feel connected to people, coz otherwise it’s just the mind putting out what it thinks you want to hear and I don’t find that so satisfying really. Just another game.

Nick

—–Original Message—–
From: Alan Hehe [mailto:a.h.veil68@hotmail.com]
Sent: 04 April 2006 04:34
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Pot calling the Kettle Black?

Nick…you are soooo full of shit. That’s exactly what you said, and you’re lucky I don’t have the e-mail anymore or I’d shove it down your lying, cyber throat!!!!!
Come on..Preston, someone…does anyone have that email, the one where I posted the medical info I think might have his actual statement on it….I would appreciate if someone could send it back to me. Almost word for word what you said was (grammatical errors included) “Opiate is an analgesic. It stops feeling. Only someone with alot of repressed emotions receive bliss from analgesics, like opiates….” (you also said something about ego-orientation)…then you said “if you can think of another reason I’d love to hear it.”  Now I’m positive that I want nothing more to do with you…so let sleeping dogs lie, or I swear I will rip you apart…and that way, you won’t have to “be manipulated anymore!” You dug your own grave with a drstically stupid statement, and you’re too full of yourself to just say…”hey, I was wrong”. Now, for the second time, BYE!!!!!

From: “Nick Sandberg” <nick227@tiscali.co.uk>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Pot calling the Kettle Black?
Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2006 08:53:07 +0100

—–Original Message—–
From: Alan Hehe [mailto:a.h.veil68@hotmail.com]
Sent: 02 April 2006 17:32
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] Pot calling the Kettle Black?

Hey…uh, Biscuit Boy,
What’s the matter? Do you NOT like my debate with Nick, or do you just not like the fact that Ann paid me a compliment? Do you agree with Nick’s idea that only emotionally repressed individuals receive any sort of high from opiates? If you’ve got something to say, why not come out and say it? Have you never done opiates? Or any drugs? What gives you the right to judge Ann? Personally I don’t care if her comment was influened by a whole gram of Mexican brown! Better a nice compliment from someone high, than a nasty one from someone sober! Now, if I’ve misconstrued your intent, I apologize, but I would appreciate a logical explanation rather than a low-blow insinuation.

Hi Alan,
only emotionally repressed individuals receive any sort of high from opiates – I did not make such an extreme statement. I said there was a relationship between the two, that the bliss experienced on opiates relates to the degree of ego-repressed feeling. You grab stuff, exaggerate it to an extreme position and then criticize your own interpretation. Welcome to the wonderful world of manipulation! I see a great career in media or politics opening up before you.
BTW, this IS the classic trait for someone who is using belief patterns to hold down feelings. If something challenges the belief then repressed feelings start to rise “OMG, what if I’m really like so!” or whatever and the mind acts to push the feelings back down again, rearranging what is said into something it can criticize and expel. Frankly, I also see myself doing it at times! Letting go of beliefs can be a toughie.
Nick

From:  biscuitboy714@aol.com
Reply-To:  ibogaine@mindvox.com
To:  ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject:  Re: [Ibogaine] Opiate effects
Date:  Sun, 02 Apr 2006 11:05:09 -0400
Yea Ann, tell us how much heroin you shot last night. He He I
couldn’t help it. I love you Mamma           Randy

—–Original Message—–
From: Alan Hehe <a.h.veil68@hotmail.com>
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Sat, 01 Apr 2006 11:15:03 -0500
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Opiate effects

Hey Ann,

Thank you for the compliment…Somebody’s got to try to counter
his crazy ideas with some sense. Feel free to write me anytime..I
really enjoy talking to people on this list and hearing their
stories…Oh, don’t tell anyone, but I studied semantics and debate
in high school! Just kidding…about the hush hush, as anyone will
be able to read this. Oh, heck–LOL! I’m 37, and High school is but
a distant, mainly unplesant experience…except when I would catch
my English teacher making grammatical or syntactical mistakes,
before they moved me into an A.P. college-level class…And no, I’m
not conceited, either..but I do enjoy debate! Everyone has certain
qualities at which they excel, and others at which they are
deficient. I make up for my skill in English by being a retard in
math! Plus, I couldn’t be that smart or I wouldn’t be here, looking
for a way out of the hell-hole I dug for myself….and despite
having a really shitty childhood, I take complete responsibility for
my current position in
life……………………………….Wishing you the best in
all…….Alan.

——–
From: “Ann B. Mullikin” <think@francomm.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Opiate effects
Date: Sat, 1 Apr 2006 10:04:20 -0500

No, I am not Nick but…..

Bravo, Alan.  I surely do appreciate the way you use your brain –
TO THINK AND TO REASON.  Its good stuff.  Keep on.

ann
think@francomm.com

—– Original Message —–
From: Alan Hehe
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Friday, March 31, 2006 4:49 PM
Subject: [Ibogaine] Opiate effects

Hey Nick,

I wanted to say that, although I was basically right, I believe
(and according to the research I’ve done) about the reason opiates
cause pleasure, I wasn’t entirely correct about the natural opiates
(dopamine,etc) having an effect on mood. They do have an affect on
mood..but then again, so does euphoria..in fact, it could be said to
be a mood unto itself. Here’s a little medical info for: Opiates
(heroin, morphine, etc.)

The human body naturally produces its own opiate-like substances
and uses them as neurotransmitters. These substances include
endorphins, enkephalins, and dynorphin, often collectively known as
endogenous opioids. Endogenous opioids modulate our reactions to
painful stimuli. They also regulate vital functions such as hunger
and thirst and are involved in mood control, immune response, and
other processes.

The reason that opiates such as heroin and morphine affect us so
powerfully is that these exogenous substances bind to the same
receptors as our endogenous opioids. There are three kinds of
receptors widely distributed throughout the brain: mu, delta, and
kappa receptors.

These receptors, through second messengers, influence the likelihood
that ion channels will open, which in certain cases reduces the
excitability of neurons. This reduced excitability is the likely
source of the euphoric effect of opiates and appears to be mediated
by the mu and delta receptors.

This euphoric effect also appears to involve another mechanism in
which the GABA-inhibitory interneurons of the ventral tegmental area
come into play. By attaching to their mu receptors, exogenous
opioids reduce the amount of GABA released (see animation).
Normally, GABA reduces the amount of dopamine released in the
nucleus accumbens. By inhibiting this inhibitor, the opiates
ultimately increase the amount of dopamine produced and the amount
of pleasure felt.

Chronic consumption of opiates inhibits the production of cAMP, but
this inhibition is offset in the long run by other cAMP production
mechanisms. When no opiates are available, this increased cAMP
production capacity comes to the fore and results in neural
hyperactivity and the sensation of craving the drug.

——–
Make FREE PC-to-PC calls with MSN Messenger. Get it now!
/]=———————————————————————=
[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands:
http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=
[/

——–
Find just what you’re after with the new, more precise MSN Search
– try it now!
/]=———————————————————————=
[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands:
http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=
[/

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands:
http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]

\]=———————————————————————=[/

Be one of the first to try Windows Live Mail /]=———————————————————————=[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%] \]=———————————————————————=[/

Play Trivia with MSN Messenger for a chance to win an XBOXT 360 prize pack! /]=———————————————————————=[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%] \]=———————————————————————=[/

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] (Sorta WAY OT!- semi-nuddie pics) Fw: slipper pix
Date: April 4, 2006 at 7:17:36 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Thanks to both who repled with headrush info and suggestions, and don’t worry, I’m not at all interesting in erotic asphixia, thanks kindly. Headrushes themselves border on unenjoyable as it is, so I think I’ll steer clear of the asphixia type sexual encounters or non-sexual ones too for that matter.
—–
“If God dropped acid, would he see people?”  ~Steven Wright

Peace, love and lotsof respect.
Preston Peet
ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor Underground- the Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations, Astonishing Archaeology and Hidden History
Editor Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Columnist HighTimes mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.
—– Original Message —–
From: Alberto Sola
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Monday, April 03, 2006 4:16 PM
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] (Sorta WAY OT!- semi-nuddie pics) Fw: slipper pix

Hola:
Nice pics is good to have ilustrations.
Headrush you had combine the opening of the blood vessels on your skin brain etc. and standing up suddenly that caused momentary lack of blood and oxygen to your brain. Similar to people that like to experience in erotic asphixia (don’t try it a lot of them end up choked dead)
Saludos
Alberto
/]=———————————————————————=[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%] \]=———————————————————————=[/

From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] OT! Eating cattle or food
Date: April 4, 2006 at 7:15:40 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

for me eating meat in a society where it’s unnecessary merely promotes the fear/bloodthirsty addiction so prevalent in the Western world. I can see eating meat in a society where there are no alternatives, but where I live it’s easy to not eat meat, and I’m glad.
I still do dairy and eggs, but can’t eat anything that might lick it’s fellow beings, or nuzzle them, or communicate in any way, shape or form with one another, even chickens (which I’ve been told are ok to eat because “they’re stupid.” If that were the only criteria for being ok to eat, I’d be a cannibal). Again, this is only my own viewpoint, but there seems to be something unenlightened, to me, how some folk can have “pets” but call cattle mere “food,” making no connection to the living, breathing, thinking creatures sharing the planet with us.

Butt, and it’s a great big butt, I can’t really fault anyone for their eating habits beyond stating how I personally feel, particularly about factory farming, inhumane treatment of our “food” and the wonton slaughter of living creatures when it isn’t necessary for our survival, only to feed our addiction to blood and flesh these days (Of course one couuld take this to extreme and tell me plants are also living, but I limit my empathy and eating ban to beings with eys I guess).
That’s because I’m…pro-choice at heart.

—–
“If God dropped acid, would he see people?”  ~Steven Wright

Peace, love and lotsof respect.
Preston Peet
ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor Underground- the Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations, Astonishing Archaeology and Hidden History
Editor Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Columnist HighTimes mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —– From: Crooked Eye
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Tuesday, April 04, 2006 3:53 AM
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Whats a Republican?

Cow’s are tasty…  If we aren’t supposed to eat animals, then why are they made out of meat?  😀  I fail how to see eating cows equates to racism…  I eat a lot of cows, but I have a mixed family…  If it makes you feel any better we eat a lot of chickens, too..  I love turkey, the tryptophan makes me sleepy…

Alan Hehe <a.h.veil68@hotmail.com> wrote:
Don’t call me Baby…well, you can…since you’re not close enough for me to do anything about it! Plus, that’s a freedom, too…Just like my ability to talk about pro-choice. As for your information, no, I don’t think the way the abortion system is set up–but I absolutely believe in having the right…And no, you don’t have 9 months to decide whether to have the rug rat or not–there is a cut-off, a limit to when abortions can be performed.
And so you think, because cows aren’t pets, or aren’t ‘cute’, then it’s okay to torture them? And to cut the balls of bulls off without any anesthetic? To make chickens live in a cage so small they can barely turn around? And George Bush–wanting to save lives! LOL! That’s the biggest joke I’ve ever heard! But it figures; you’re not special..alot of the people in this country are brain-washed by the constant disinformation they are fed….Why do you think there are a hundred commercials warning of the dangers of marijuana, one of the least harmful drugs known to man, but yet maybe one out of those hundred about the truly dangerous drugs, like H or Coke?
And you don’t have to be a hindu to have compassion for animals other than cats and dogs, you dumb-ass red-neck! In some places they eat dogs…would that be okay if they ate your dog? You know, I’m totally wasting my time talking to you, I can already tell that you are way undereducated, extremely prejudiced. Cows are just food. Are blacks just niggers, too? God, I can’t stand fuckin’ red-necks like you, especially the ones that actually think they’re smart. Once you start doing away with freedoms, it’s all down-hill. Who’s going to decide what’s right and wrong? You?! I would happily put a hollow-point 45 shell into my head if that possibility existed..of course G.W.B. is quite the redneck himself, which is why you probably like him. First of all, HE’s not fighting for anything. I have respect for the soldiers; they don’t decide the mission, they just do what they’re told. And how many babies do you think die while we were waging a war we were totally lied to about? Or is that okay? You think the babies over there even know what a terrorist is? This world is already over-populated..if people like you ran things, the world would run out of resources within a decade! The oh so precious children! Everyone starts out as a child..some people, like you, remain one, in their minds, their whole life. But those sweet children often grow up to be killers and rapists, and often for no apparent reason!  Strong belief does only one thing: close your mind. Boy, that ibogaine is gonna have fun with you!!!!! Cows are just food! Well, we’re just food, too…if a grizzly decides you look good! God, what egotism!  You claim to be a Christian (I do not) but you must have misssed the part about not judging lest you be judged yourself…And I bet ibo’s gonna drive that one home with a psychoactive sledgehammer! You’ve got your response, but I really no longer wish to talk with you. I’ve spent too much time arguing with all the fascists on this list, instead of hanging out with the cool, in the know ,people: by that meaning knowing that the whole Govt. is totally corrupt, actually controlled by a few wealthy and extremely powerful people, and they constantly just feed us disinformation, while manipulating the world through economic control, etc, and alot of other things you wouldn’t understand. BYE< NOW, Billy BOY. Go get a burger!

From:  “Billy J” <billjohnson6@sympatico.ca>
Reply-To:  ibogaine@mindvox.com
To:  ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject:  RE: [Ibogaine] Whats a Republican?
Date:  Tue, 04 Apr 2006 02:19:25 -0400
Hear this peace and take it to your Heart FRIEND.
1st if we go back to Killing kids for the sins of their fathers
(Child of a Rapist) Do you think that is more civilized then Raising
Cattle for food,(Cattle are food “not Pets”) although you may be
from India or somewhere that they worship your cows and even there
fecal matter I hear! Now if your are at that junkger(Place) then I
will have to say -well Al, Bless you, but when was the last time you
had your precious cow go to war for YOUR FREEDOMS that I am sure you
are enjoying- Yes?
Allan , do you really love cows (the 4 legged ones that is) or
are you in your 2nd or 3rd reincarnation and you where once a cow
and you have come into this wierd mooing stage and you just could
not figure it out.
Ok That is sarcasm – Sorry< I’ll get serious.
Oh Ya Your aborting a fetus-, and yes I know that in the USof A
being the most civilized Nation that has usually voted anti-
Christian ( just in case somebody didn’t let Everybody do what FEELs
GOOD)
Ya you can Have sex with anybody you want and then if a girl gets
pregnant, or do you call it fetus something, oh well  so shes
pregnant you have 9 months to decide whether or not you what the
little BLOB Because your fetus can be kicking up a storm and as long
as you can keep its stupid( oh it,s brain isn’t functioning yet
,right) well as long as you can keep its head inside the grown up
fetus ( that would be the female, The pregnant one, knocked up one ,
dumb one what ever you would call someone like that ( Maybe MOM)
well just reach in and CRUSH ITS SCULL and or STICK A SYRINGE INTO
THe Back of it HEAD JUST UNTIL ITS STOPS PUTTINGN UP A FIGHT, AND
they do fight Allan, just go and ask your abortion doctor.– PARTIAL
BIRTH ABORTION– VERY NICE–
oH YA AND YOU KNOW WHAT ALLY BABY THAT STUPID WAR MOGER THAT YOU
HAVE AS A PRESIDENT WOULD LIKE NOTHING MORE THAN TO SAVE PEOPLE BUT
ALL YOU PEOPLE THAT GOD GAVE YOU FREE CHOICE HAVE DECIDED TO VOTE
FOR THE REAL KILLERS-
Have you any clue how many of your fetuses are done away with
each year in the USA alone,, Allan Baby– way way more in 1 year
than have been killed in ALL the World wars— How many do you think
are rape and how many are just another form of birth control,, Your
Planned Parenthood is a multi-Billion dollar industry that fights
for you to have the freedom to get rid of your Babies- But They do
not do it for free– They are rich.One more thing if we can justify
killing because you THINK they don’t feel pain- Why not line up all
us addicts right after a good whack and while we are feeling no pain
BANG-
Save a lot of tax dollars- The Meth Clinics would be Pissed though.

Love Ya!

Just Don’t say it is OK To Kill My Children- Or Yours

B

—-Original Message Follows—-
From: “Alan Hehe” <a.h.veil68@hotmail.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] RE: [Pornography,psychology,Choice,force,) 2
cents
Date: Tue, 04 Apr 2006 01:25:21 -0400
MIME-Version: 1.0
Received: from tomts30-srv.bellnexxia.net ([209.226.175.104]) by
bay0-pamc1-f3.bay0.hotmail.com with Microsoft
SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Mon, 3 Apr 2006 22:27:22 -0700
Received: from toip4.bellnexxia.net ([209.226.175.87])          by
tomts30-srv.bellnexxia.net          (InterMail vM.5.01.06.13
201-253-122-130-113-20050324) with ESMTP          id
<20060404052721.IXFI18550.tomts30-srv.bellnexxia.net@toip4.bellnexxia.net>
for <billjohnson6@sympatico.ca>; Tue, 4 Apr 2006 01:27:21
-0400
Received: from tanelorn.mindvox.com (HELO mail.mindvox.com)
([64.124.179.118])  by toip4.bellnexxia.net with ESMTP; 04 Apr 2006
01:27:16 -0400
Received: (qmail 1073 invoked by uid 513); 4 Apr 2006 01:27:15 -0400
Received: (qmail 1067 invoked by uid 514); 4 Apr 2006 01:27:15 -0400
X-Message-Info: moY6YVwXQ46hfM+PXD+r03SFMVOY3E1daJYU/Sm1Nkw=
Mailing-List: contact ibogaine-help@mindvox.com; run by ezmlm
Precedence: bulk
X-No-Archive: yes
List-Post: <mailto:ibogaine@mindvox.com>
List-Help: <mailto:ibogaine-help@mindvox.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:ibogaine-unsubscribe@mindvox.com>
List-Subscribe: <mailto:ibogaine-subscribe@mindvox.com>
Delivered-To: mailing list ibogaine@mindvox.com
X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.1 required=4.0
X-Antivirus-MYDOMAIN-Mail-From: a.h.veil68@hotmail.com via
tanelorn.mindvox.com
X-Antivirus-MYDOMAIN: 1.25-st-qms
(Clear:RC:0(65.54.224.26):SA:0(-2.1/4.0):. Processed in 8.08646 secs
Process 1055)
Return-Path:
ibogaine-return-23280-billjohnson6=sympatico.ca@mindvox.com
X-OriginalArrivalTime: 04 Apr 2006 05:27:22.0868 (UTC)
FILETIME=[7363CB40:01C657A8]

I gotta take a piece of this one. Okay, Mr. Anti-choice, let me
ask you this: do you eat meat? If not, then good for you. If so,
have you ever though about the actual, truly painful, totally
inhumane treatment we put animals through? And usually don’t think
twice about it…It’s people like George Bush who make me wish
sometimes that God would hurl an asteroid at us! It’s “God forbid
one human foetus (who does not feel a thing if the abortion is done
in a timely manner, according to the latest research, because their
nervous system isn’t nearly fully developed) should perish, no
matter if it was caused by a rape or is probably going to be born
into alot of suffering–but while I’m on my high horse, cut me a
piece o that cow off and cook it up! It’s sheer egotism that we
believe that humans are so damned
important, but it’s okay if we torture animals, ruin the planet, and
make other people adhere to our beliefs!!! We’re not that important!
And if you believe in a God and the soul, then you know that–if the
foetus even has a soul yet, which I don’t believe it does..I believe
the soul enters with the first breath, and leaves with the
last–that baby is just going back into the arms of God! There is no
death! And since they don’t experience pain, all it becomes is
something for people like you to feel self righteous about!
Personally, I think everyone should smoke pot, and would benefit
from it (except for a few cases), but how would you like it if I
MADE you smoke it? That is, if you don’t, and don’t like it. Or
let’s say you eat meat, but I think it’s just as evil to do that as
to allow abortions, so I outlawed meat–would that be okay with you?
And the cliff analogy is just stupid–not
the same thing at all. But yes, I think if a person is truly
miserable, and wants to die, I would try to talk them out of it, but
I would never stop them by force. That’s called LACK OF FREEDOM. And
if we didn’t make mistakes, how would we ever learn? To be told
something is wrong is one thing..you can tell a person, fire will
burn you..but until they get burned, they will not truly understand,
and that’s what life is all about–learning. No, I don’t like to see
foetus’ abortions–I think prevention is the answer….But
sometimes, I believe it is ‘the best choice’. If everyone like you
had their way, there really would be NO ROOM AT ALL left!!! We’re
already sooo over-populated! It’s like I heard some character say in
a movie recently..”everybody’s kids are so special…it makes you
wonder where all the normal adults come from”. Even God believes in
freedom of choice! That’s why he gave
us FREE WILL. You’re a Republican, aren’t you? And you probably
think that war-mongering asshole of a President is the best-thing
since sliced bread, eh? It’s okay to kill, as long as it’s not a
precious child…even though that child may grow up to be The Son of
Sam!  well…”take me by the ham, no good, no evil, no give a
damn!”  And the Govt. is lying to you! About just about everything.
Peace, love, and freedom. Life is too mysterious to take it so
serious!

From:  “Billy J” <billjohnson6@sympatico.ca>
Reply-To:  ibogaine@mindvox.com
To:  ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject:  [Ibogaine] RE: [Pornography,psychology,Choice,force,) 2
cents
Date:  Sun, 02 Apr 2006 21:45:39 -0400
>Well It sounds like this place is really mixing it up so I would
>like to add a little REALITY TO YOU PRO CHOICERS, I am sure glad I
>was not an abortion’ althought I have had my moments.
>Yes My Mom was a young Mom and if she had a choice I think that I
>would have no Grandkids, or be babbleing on here.
>     I too have an attitude, It is about the only thing in this
>world that I really have control over.
>Tiger– How well did you do with making ALL your own Choices,
>Instead of doing
what your were told to do? Not meant to be a shot
>at you personally, but I am with the Right or Wrong crowd- No such
>thing as grey.
>   I do know that some people may have grown up believing that
wrong
>was right and right was wrong, but I Think that I pretty much knew
>when I was stepping out of line and doing wrong.
>It is (as most believe) My God , no not God, but My worldly given
>Right- to do wrong- It’s my life and if I want to screw it up then
>stay out of my way. And you know what I had a lot of sooo called
>friends that did just that WATCHED, AS i WAS Killing myself and
>ruining a lot of lifes.
>But O O O never no no no neverdare step on somebodys toes because
>you know what they have a choice, Just like those poor little
Crack
>%$^&%$ Women that degrade themselves( and me
myself) due to
>everybody. But Never No No Never dare tell somebody or force
someone
>to get some help that they may never ever make it to on their own,
>due to something called “Pride” “Shame” “Guilt”
>Whatever holds them back. They may end up DEAD and it would be
their
>own fault, because you know how STRONG us druggies are, and if
that
>person dies because he had a choice to get help and refused or
just
>couldn’t make it on his/her own and needed YOU (of course they
>didn’t tell you that).
>I am sorry but I BELIEVE that if you Love Someone or even care a
>little, and you see them walking off a cliff and YOU have an
>opportunity to stop them, and you don’t- Can you truelly say it
was
>their own fault?
>Pornography- I never met too many Normal people that would find it
>neccesary to take their
cloths off for the public to see. Totally
>wrong and if you had your own kids you might not think it too cool
>having your buddy beating off while checking out your little girl.
>Not nice eh Billy but P–sy T-ts are not meant for anyone except
who
>they belong to and their mate.
>
>Bye For Now, That stuff is about the biggest trigger going for any
>downfall
>
>Bill
>—-Original Message Follows—-
>From: “Nick Sandberg” <nick227@tiscali.co.uk>
>Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
>To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
>Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Opiates
>Date: Sun, 2 Apr 2006 10:24:07 +0100
>MIME-Version: 1.0
>Received: from tomts21-srv.bellnexxia.net ([209.226.175.183]) by
>bay0-pamc1-f11.bay0.hotmail.com with Microsoft
>SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Sun, 2 Apr 2006 05:38:59
-0700
>Received: from toip5.bellnexxia.net ([209.226.175.88])          by
>tomts21-srv.bellnexxia.net          (InterMail vM.5.01.06.13
>201-253-122-130-113-20050324) with ESMTP          id
><20060402123858.HZPV14030.tomts21-srv.bellnexxia.net@toip5.bellnexxia.net>
>          for <billjohnson6@sympatico.ca>; Sun, 2 Apr 2006
08:38:58
>-0400
>Received: from tanelorn.mindvox.com (HELO mail.mindvox.com)
>([64.124.179.118])  by toip5.bellnexxia.net with ESMTP; 02 Apr
2006
>08:38:58 -0400
>Received: (qmail 16967 invoked by uid 513); 2 Apr 2006 08:38:55
>-0400
>Received: (qmail 16961 invoked by uid
514); 2 Apr 2006 08:38:55
>-0400
>X-Message-Info: moY6YVwXQ44WAJnUvaOEtK2hXKGagKAsshDbZwj7pSc=
>Mailing-List: contact ibogaine-help@mindvox.com; run by ezmlm
>Precedence: bulk
>X-No-Archive: yes
>List-Post: <mailto:ibogaine@mindvox.com>
>List-Help: <mailto:ibogaine-help@mindvox.com>
>List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:ibogaine-unsubscribe@mindvox.com>
>List-Subscribe: <mailto:ibogaine-subscribe@mindvox.com>
>Delivered-To: mailing list ibogaine@mindvox.com
>X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.3 required=4.0
>X-Antivirus-MYDOMAIN-Mail-From: nick227@tiscali.co.uk via
>tanelorn.mindvox.com
>X-Antivirus-MYDOMAIN: 1.25-st-qms
>(Clear:RC:0(212.74.114.37):SA:0(-2.3/4.0):. Processed in 2.781926
>secs Process 16953)
>X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true
>X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result:
AQAAAJ0kL0SDE4UI
>X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.6604 (9.0.2911.0)
>Return-Path:
>ibogaine-return-23233-billjohnson6=sympatico.ca@mindvox.com
>X-OriginalArrivalTime: 02 Apr 2006 12:38:59.0373 (UTC)
>FILETIME=[6A155DD0:01C65652]
>
>
>   —–Original Message—–
>   From: Tiger Lisa [mailto:tigerlisa@gmail.com]
>   Sent: 01 April 2006 13:44
>   To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
>   Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Opiates
>
>
>   Dear Nick,
>   Here’ the part I don’t understand.
>
>   You wrote,
>   Personally, my position is…I think rising awareness is GOOD.
I
>would
>love to see more people in groups, going through their stuff,
>becoming more
>aware of their
personal interior dynamic, and moving forward in
>life. But,
>sadly, I’m not in a position to compel people to do this.
>
>   Why would you ever want to COMPEL anyone to do ANYTHING? Do you
>really
>believe that would be useful, effective, helpful? Do you think
>people
>actually benefit from, and grow from, being FORCED to do anything?
>
>   That is a parent-child model of interaction (and not a
>particularly
>skillful one, IMO), and it’s going to reinforce childlike,
>rebellious and
>victim behavior (NOT self-awareness!) in the one so compelled, as
>well as
>reinforcing bullying behavior and disprespectful and righteous
>attitudes
>(NOT increased compassion or awareness) in the one doing the
>compelling. A
>”lose-lose” interaction–no one
wins!
>
>   Myself, I believe CHOICE is the name of the game. With choice
>comes
>responsibility, self-responsibility and a loss of the victim
>consciousness
>that drives continued reactive and unconscious behavior.
>
>   So in a nutshell: Saying something (like awarenss) is GOOD is
one
>thing,
>but it’s a far cry from that to say,”And I’d love to FORCE you all
>to be
>more aware! too bad I can’t!” I think that is the essence of
what
>*I* am
>having a problem with. Yes, awareness is good. I agree. Yes, I’d
>love to
>live in a more aware society, umm hmm. Then I read the next
sentence
>and I’m
>brought up short.
>
>   We all need love, acceptance, compassion. Compassion is one of
>the most
>healing things
going! Power and control, on the other hand, just get
>people’s backs up, thrust them into dysfunctional modes of
thinking
>and
>perpetuate a lack of awareness all around.
>
>   Just my two cents,
>   Tiger
>
>   PS I bet if you took a shot of heroin, you would experience
>bliss! (not
>that I’m suggesting you do) I believe it is just how human beings
>are wired.
>We’ve all got the same neurotransmitters, more or less.
>
>   Hi Tiger,
>
>   Well, I seem to recall, from the days when I used to go to
>conferences and
>stuff, that studies have shown that only a small percentage of
>school kids
>who used heroin developed a habit. (Howard Parker in Sheffield, or
>something
>like that, about 1000 individuals
studied). This is not quite the
>same as
>what you’re saying, I appreciate, but it shows that the drug of
>itself is
>not necessarily addicting. I don’t know if anyone knows what makes
a
>difference but I’d be willing to bet that, psychologically, it
>relates
>strongly to “ego orientation” vs “underlying levels of feeling.”
If
>you’ve
>developed a self-image that requires you to repress more feelings
>than the
>endogenous opiates in your body can do, then taking heroin is
going
>to make
>you feel pretty good. I would personally say that this is very
>likely one
>psychological mechanism behind addiction. This would explain why
so
>many
>addicts do come from relatively high trauma backgrounds. For, as
>kids, we
>learn that to “get things” and to “be popular” we need to
be able to
>keep
>our feelings a bit under control, not just likely to collapse from
>overfeeling at any time.
>
>   With bliss, (or anxiety for that matter), these are
experiential
>things
>and no neuroscientist can explain them beyond pointing a little at
>things
>that seem to be involved. What is clear is that the states are
>relative to
>one another. If you’re basically a happy person bliss is
inevitably
>less
>attractive than if you’re an anxious person.
>
>   About awareness, yes, I would love to force everyone to be more
>aware!
>And, inevitably, it doesn’t really work like that! But that’s my
>position
>anyway. What to do? Yes, compassion is needed, sometimes a lot of
>it. Also,
>all the power and control at times. I’m not so
busy with how I think
>society
>should be, or trying to like Understand the world, I just put my
>position
>out really. About choice, well, it seems like a great thing, for
>sure, but
>to me it’s a little the same as trying to push compassion at the
>expense of
>power. In philosophy or spirituality or whatever, some people
>believe that
>free will exists, others that the universe is entirely
>deterministic. Who
>the fuck knows? Both are cool viewpoints, and I personally
wouldn’t
>just
>want to just trapped in just one of them.
>
>   Is it cool to allow someone you care about to carry on fucking
>their life
>up because you believe so much in their free will? Not for me! I
>like to
>have the guts to take a position. And, to be honest, it’s a little

>bit what
>I miss in this list, where half the time everyone seems to be
>talking it up
>all nice but actually underneath there are shed-loads of feelings.
I
>don’t
>know if this says anything significant about ibogaine, or about
the
>people
>who are attracted to administering it, or what. But I notice it.
>
>   Nick
>
>
>
>
>
>/]=———————————————————————=[\
>[%] Ibogaine List Commands:
>http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
>
>\]=———————————————————————=[/
>
>

With MSN Spaces email straight to your blog. Upload jokes, photos
and more. It’s free!

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands:
http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]

\]=———————————————————————=[/

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands:
http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]

\]=———————————————————————=[/

Be one of the first to try Windows Live Mail /]=———————————————————————=[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%] \]=———————————————————————=[/

Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. PC-to-Phone calls for ridiculously low rates.

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: “cm” <cm67@optusnet.com.au>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] this list is messed up!
Date: April 3, 2006 at 6:45:36 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

—- Original Message —–
From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Tuesday, April 04, 2006 4:34 AM
Subject: [Ibogaine] this list is messed up!

I have been getting some messages from postmaster saying messages delayed and/or undeliverable. Anyone else having this problem?
Some of the posts I am not getting. I read the replies you folks are writing but did not receive original message.
Callie

yeah callie, been happening to me heaps,
chi

From: “pascall roland” <pascal-roland@hotmail.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] Ibogaine / earthquakes/ M. East policy / etc…
Date: April 4, 2006 at 6:11:48 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hello Howard,

appreciate you asking abt. our whereabouts. The earthquake threat however being less than the Tomahawk threat nowadays.

I’m safe ……….  and clean, partly thanks to a heavy ibo. high dosis treatment 2 months ago in France ( cf. my brief report abt. the treatment for further reference )

I still owe you a reply on available medication here. Sedatives and….   ?

if still of interest for you,

regards

Pascal

From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Ibogaine against earthquakes in Iran & elsewhere
Date: Tue, 4 Apr 2006 02:55:06 EDT

Glad to know you are safe.

Howard

In a message dated 4/3/06 10:55:17 PM, pascal-roland@hotmail.com writes:

> we are still alive, thanks, and were out of the country at time of
> earthquakes.
>
> we intend to grow some ibog plants here as it might they might be effecitve
> against earthquakes as well. can anyone confirm that info.?
>
> love
>
> pascal
>
>
> >From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
> >Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
> >To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
> >Subject: [Ibogaine] OT-quakes in Iran
> >Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2006 15:27:07 EST
> >
> >Anyone heard from pascal? I am kind of worried about him and his  family.
> >Callie
>
>

_________________________________________________________________
Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today it’s FREE! http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: “Nick Sandberg” <nick227@tiscali.co.uk>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Napolean complex?
Date: April 4, 2006 at 5:08:41 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

—–Original Message—–
From: Alan Hehe [mailto:a.h.veil68@hotmail.com]
Sent: 02 April 2006 14:47
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] Napolean complex?

Hey Everyone
Nick—I think Tiger made a very valid point about compassion and free will. Half the reason, I believe, that teens, especially, do drugs in the first place is because of the taboo placed on them! People do not like to be forced into anything, even if it may be “good” for them; furthermore, if there was good in whatever the person is being forced to do, that quality in invariably destroyed by the very process of force!
You are a scary person, Nick. Thank God that you aren’t in a position to force everyone into your ‘encounter therapy.” I can tell you that the encounter you had with me wouldn’t be good for you–although I could see how taking out all my repressed anger on you, instead of my punching bag, may be very theraputic for me, at least until the piggies arrived.
You also never responded to my e-mails…You made the statement that only people who are emotionally repressed would find any bliss in using opiates, and said you would like to hear another reason if I could find one. Well, I did–I sent you the medical article explaining why opiates cause bliss through various chemical interactions within the brain. Nothing to say about that?
I wish you could be put into a severe state of addiction, let you experience a good third-week methadone withdrawal, just for 24 hours…Then give you just enough to take away the very worst of the withdrawal, then start yelling at you and calling you a “fucking junkie” and telling you everything you’ve ever done wrong in your life (if you ever have, that is LOL). Then, after about an hour or two of this ask you a question: “would you like a little more methadone, or would you like to continue with the “encounter therapy”? Of course, never having experienced opiate withdrawal, you can’t know how positive I am and how funny such a situation would be to me, and a few others who disagree with your methods but have been thru the withdrawal experience. Personally, your techniques to me sound very similar to old fashioned torture and brain-washing techniques used to break-down prisoners…Do you put them in a hard-backed chair and shine a bright light in their face as well? LOL, just kidding….to a degree. How would you like to be forced to do heroin, turned into an addict against YOUR WILL? Maybe I think that would be good for you! Does that mean I should then be able to do it? Oh, how would it be good for you? Well, it would give you a better understanding of your priso–I mean patients.
Alan,
Fuck man, just get a grip on reality. Your mind is creating all sorts of dramas and then just reacting to the dramas it’s creating. Yes, I’d like to see more people come to groups, I’d like to see more people become more aware of their inner conflicts, but the therapy I’m involved with is a totally humane process, it’s not about abusing people. It’s about creating a space where you can go deeper into your emotional reality, where you get support, and the outcome is GOOD! Don’t turn what I say into some colossal fear trip. It’s not like that.
Nick
Let me ask this: what do you think of American foreign policy? Do you think it’s right (because they believe they know what’s best for other countries) for them going around and setting legislation for these other countries?
Anyway, if a person is ready to face their deepest, innermost aspects of their personality and/or psyche, ibogaine seems to do just that, while at the same time eliminating much of the agony of withdrawal…That’s more like having one’s higher self, or God, or a spirit guide, show them what’s going on in their lives…And I believe such an experience as has authority….As opposed to you, Nick, just a human being, apparently with quite a few emotional problems of his own…normal, compassionate people don’t wish to force others to believe or participate in their own ‘movie’ of reality.
Wishing God would humble you…Sincerely, Alan.
.
From: “Nick Sandberg” <nick227@tiscali.co.uk>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Opiates
Date: Sun, 2 Apr 2006 10:24:07 +0100

—–Original Message—–
From: Tiger Lisa [mailto:tigerlisa@gmail.com]
Sent: 01 April 2006 13:44
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Opiates

Dear Nick,
Here’ the part I don’t understand.

You wrote,
Personally, my position is…I think rising awareness is GOOD. I would love to see more people in groups, going through their stuff, becoming more aware of their personal interior dynamic, and moving forward in life. But, sadly, I’m not in a position to compel people to do this.

Why would you ever want to COMPEL anyone to do ANYTHING? Do you really believe that would be useful, effective, helpful? Do you think people actually benefit from, and grow from, being FORCED to do anything?

That is a parent-child model of interaction (and not a particularly skillful one, IMO), and it’s going to reinforce childlike, rebellious and victim behavior (NOT self-awareness!) in the one so compelled, as well as reinforcing bullying behavior and disprespectful and righteous attitudes (NOT increased compassion or awareness) in the one doing the compelling. A “lose-lose” interaction–no one wins!

Myself, I believe CHOICE is the name of the game. With choice comes responsibility, self-responsibility and a loss of the victim consciousness that drives continued reactive and unconscious behavior.

So in a nutshell: Saying something (like awarenss) is GOOD is one thing, but it’s a far cry from that to say,”And I’d love to FORCE you all to be more aware! too bad I can’t!” I think that is the essence of what  *I* am having a problem with. Yes, awareness is good. I agree. Yes, I’d love to live in a more aware society, umm hmm. Then I read the next sentence and I’m brought up short.

We all need love, acceptance, compassion. Compassion is one of the most healing things going! Power and control, on the other hand, just get people’s backs up, thrust them into dysfunctional modes of thinking and perpetuate a lack of awareness all around.

Just my two cents,
Tiger

PS I bet if you took a shot of heroin, you would experience bliss! (not that I’m suggesting you do) I believe it is just how human beings are wired. We’ve all got the same neurotransmitters, more or less.

Hi Tiger,

Well, I seem to recall, from the days when I used to go to conferences and stuff, that studies have shown that only a small percentage of school kids who used heroin developed a habit. (Howard Parker in Sheffield, or something like that, about 1000 individuals studied). This is not quite the same as what you’re saying, I appreciate, but it shows that the drug of itself is not necessarily addicting. I don’t know if anyone knows what makes a difference but I’d be willing to bet that, psychologically, it relates strongly to “ego orientation” vs “underlying levels of feeling.” If you’ve developed a self-image that requires you to repress more feelings than the endogenous opiates in your body can do, then taking heroin is going to make you feel pretty good. I would personally say that this is very likely one psychological mechanism behind addiction. This would explain why so many addicts do come from relatively high trauma backgrounds. For, as kids, we learn that to “get things” and to “be popular” we need to be able to keep our feelings a bit under control, not just likely to collapse from overfeeling at any time.

With bliss, (or anxiety for that matter), these are experiential things and no neuroscientist can explain them beyond pointing a little at things that seem to be involved. What is clear is that the states are relative to one another. If you’re basically a happy person bliss is inevitably less attractive than if you’re an anxious person.

About awareness, yes, I would love to force everyone to be more aware! And, inevitably, it doesn’t really work like that! But that’s my position anyway. What to do? Yes, compassion is needed, sometimes a lot of it. Also, all the power and control at times. I’m not so busy with how I think society should be, or trying to like Understand the world, I just put my position out really. About choice, well, it seems like a great thing, for sure, but to me it’s a little the same as trying to push compassion at the expense of power. In philosophy or spirituality or whatever, some people believe that free will exists, others that the universe is entirely deterministic. Who the fuck knows? Both are cool viewpoints, and I personally wouldn’t just want to just trapped in just one of them.

Is it cool to allow someone you care about to carry on fucking their life up because you believe so much in their free will? Not for me! I like to have the guts to take a position. And, to be honest, it’s a little bit what I miss in this list, where half the time everyone seems to be talking it up all nice but actually underneath there are shed-loads of feelings. I don’t know if this says anything significant about ibogaine, or about the people who are attracted to administering it, or what. But I notice it.

Nick

With MSN Spaces email straight to your blog. Upload jokes, photos and more. It’s free! /]=———————————————————————=[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%] \]=———————————————————————=[/

From: “Nick Sandberg” <nick227@tiscali.co.uk>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Pot calling the Kettle Black?
Date: April 4, 2006 at 5:01:52 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Alan,

To be honest, I find you wrapped up so tight I am a bit scared to even communicate with you. I don’t know where things will go for you. I mean, just the suggestion that you are using opiates to hold down feelings and you’re at like defcon2 or something. Why not just check out why what I write brings up so much feeling in you? You think anger is created by events external to yourself? It can be triggered, for sure. But you gotta own your part of it. For me, you have every trait of someone who is very strongly in denial. You create some whole drama out of a few comments I make about opiates, feelings and bliss and seem convinced that you only use them to give you bliss or something. I’m just pushing out a little energy in the other direction. That’s all. Why do you seem to regard this as some form of abuse? I find you wrapped up tight, guy, really.

I make a comment – “If you experience bliss from an analgesic it is because your body is struggling to hold down a lot of feelings your ego has decided it doesn’t want to have” and you create from it “only emotionally repressed individuals receive any sort of high from opiates.” To me that’s exaggeration. Ok, maybe not so much but it’s there. You also try and justify your own position by apparently scouring the net for some neurochemical stuff that says it isn’t so. I mean, to me that’s just a total defense reaction. I am not trying to create some big picture of how things are, some all-encompassing truth about addiction, my experience is that no such thing exists. I’m just pushing out a bit of energy. Yeah, maybe neurochemists have discovered how opiates work. Maybe. If so, it’s great. And I’m happy to take this new perspective in. And I’m happy to apologize if it’s upset you so much. But, working around addicts, what I see time and again is that they are either from high trauma backgrounds or are just acutely sensitive, ie have trouble repressing feelings. To me there’s a pretty clear relationship between tendencies to opiate usage and the body’s ability to repress feeling.

Now you’re going to take ibogaine, which you seem to feel is holding out some kind of “cure” for your drug usage. Or maybe I’m reading you wrong. I certainly hope it’s good for you, man. And I don’t know what iboga will do for you personally, but what I do know is that it helps if you are open to honest self evaluation – that you can allow yourself to travel the many corridors of the psyche, especially the ones where ordinarily it looks a bit scary. Plenty of people have taken the drug, seen some God or other, been drug free for a few weeks or months, all totally valuable experiences, and then found themselves back using pretty soon. And a lot of people are attracted to ibogaine because they think it’s some kind of treatment that avoids formal rehab, avoids them having to be open and show their feelings in front of others. My experience is that it doesn’t really work like that.

All in all, I’d like to be a friend to you. My intention is not bad. I just like to feel a bit of emotional reality in people so I put energy out and see how it goes. Helps me feel connected to people, coz otherwise it’s just the mind putting out what it thinks you want to hear and I don’t find that so satisfying really. Just another game.

Nick

—–Original Message—–
From: Alan Hehe [mailto:a.h.veil68@hotmail.com]
Sent: 04 April 2006 04:34
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Pot calling the Kettle Black?

Nick…you are soooo full of shit. That’s exactly what you said, and you’re lucky I don’t have the e-mail anymore or I’d shove it down your lying, cyber throat!!!!!
Come on..Preston, someone…does anyone have that email, the one where I posted the medical info I think might have his actual statement on it….I would appreciate if someone could send it back to me. Almost word for word what you said was (grammatical errors included) “Opiate is an analgesic. It stops feeling. Only someone with alot of repressed emotions receive bliss from analgesics, like opiates….” (you also said something about ego-orientation)…then you said “if you can think of another reason I’d love to hear it.”  Now I’m positive that I want nothing more to do with you…so let sleeping dogs lie, or I swear I will rip you apart…and that way, you won’t have to “be manipulated anymore!” You dug your own grave with a drstically stupid statement, and you’re too full of yourself to just say…”hey, I was wrong”. Now, for the second time, BYE!!!!!

From: “Nick Sandberg” <nick227@tiscali.co.uk>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Pot calling the Kettle Black?
Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2006 08:53:07 +0100

—–Original Message—–
From: Alan Hehe [mailto:a.h.veil68@hotmail.com]
Sent: 02 April 2006 17:32
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] Pot calling the Kettle Black?

Hey…uh, Biscuit Boy,
What’s the matter? Do you NOT like my debate with Nick, or do you just not like the fact that Ann paid me a compliment? Do you agree with Nick’s idea that only emotionally repressed individuals receive any sort of high from opiates? If you’ve got something to say, why not come out and say it? Have you never done opiates? Or any drugs? What gives you the right to judge Ann? Personally I don’t care if her comment was influened by a whole gram of Mexican brown! Better a nice compliment from someone high, than a nasty one from someone sober! Now, if I’ve misconstrued your intent, I apologize, but I would appreciate a logical explanation rather than a low-blow insinuation.

Hi Alan,
only emotionally repressed individuals receive any sort of high from opiates – I did not make such an extreme statement. I said there was a relationship between the two, that the bliss experienced on opiates relates to the degree of ego-repressed feeling. You grab stuff, exaggerate it to an extreme position and then criticize your own interpretation. Welcome to the wonderful world of manipulation! I see a great career in media or politics opening up before you.
BTW, this IS the classic trait for someone who is using belief patterns to hold down feelings. If something challenges the belief then repressed feelings start to rise “OMG, what if I’m really like so!” or whatever and the mind acts to push the feelings back down again, rearranging what is said into something it can criticize and expel. Frankly, I also see myself doing it at times! Letting go of beliefs can be a toughie.
Nick

From:  biscuitboy714@aol.com
Reply-To:  ibogaine@mindvox.com
To:  ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject:  Re: [Ibogaine] Opiate effects
Date:  Sun, 02 Apr 2006 11:05:09 -0400
>Yea Ann, tell us how much heroin you shot last night. He He I
>couldn’t help it. I love you Mamma           Randy
>
>—–Original Message—–
>From: Alan Hehe <a.h.veil68@hotmail.com>
>To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
>Sent: Sat, 01 Apr 2006 11:15:03 -0500
>Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Opiate effects
>
>     Hey Ann,
>
>     Thank you for the compliment…Somebody’s got to try to counter
>his crazy ideas with some sense. Feel free to write me anytime..I
>really enjoy talking to people on this list and hearing their
>stories…Oh, don’t tell anyone, but I studied semantics and debate
>in high school! Just kidding…about the hush hush, as anyone will
>be able to read this. Oh, heck–LOL! I’m 37, and High school is but
>a distant, mainly unplesant experience…except when I would catch
>my English teacher making grammatical or syntactical mistakes,
>before they moved me into an A.P. college-level class…And no, I’m
>not conceited, either..but I do enjoy debate! Everyone has certain
>qualities at which they excel, and others at which they are
>deficient. I make up for my skill in English by being a retard in
>math! Plus, I couldn’t be that smart or I wouldn’t be here, looking
>for a way out of the hell-hole I dug for myself….and despite
>having a really shitty childhood, I take complete responsibility for
>my current position in
>life……………………………….Wishing you the best in
>all…….Alan.
>
>
>
>  ——–
>From: “Ann B. Mullikin” <think@francomm.com>
>Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
>To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
>Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Opiate effects
>Date: Sat, 1 Apr 2006 10:04:20 -0500
>
>  No, I am not Nick but…..
>
>  Bravo, Alan.  I surely do appreciate the way you use your brain –
>TO THINK AND TO REASON.  Its good stuff.  Keep on.
>
>ann
>think@francomm.com
>
>  —– Original Message —–
>From: Alan Hehe
>To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
>Sent: Friday, March 31, 2006 4:49 PM
>Subject: [Ibogaine] Opiate effects
>
>
>    Hey Nick,
>
>     I wanted to say that, although I was basically right, I believe
>(and according to the research I’ve done) about the reason opiates
>cause pleasure, I wasn’t entirely correct about the natural opiates
>(dopamine,etc) having an effect on mood. They do have an affect on
>mood..but then again, so does euphoria..in fact, it could be said to
>be a mood unto itself. Here’s a little medical info for: Opiates
>(heroin, morphine, etc.)
>
>  The human body naturally produces its own opiate-like substances
>and uses them as neurotransmitters. These substances include
>endorphins, enkephalins, and dynorphin, often collectively known as
>endogenous opioids. Endogenous opioids modulate our reactions to
>painful stimuli. They also regulate vital functions such as hunger
>and thirst and are involved in mood control, immune response, and
>other processes.
>
>The reason that opiates such as heroin and morphine affect us so
>powerfully is that these exogenous substances bind to the same
>receptors as our endogenous opioids. There are three kinds of
>receptors widely distributed throughout the brain: mu, delta, and
>kappa receptors.
>
>These receptors, through second messengers, influence the likelihood
>that ion channels will open, which in certain cases reduces the
>excitability of neurons. This reduced excitability is the likely
>source of the euphoric effect of opiates and appears to be mediated
>by the mu and delta receptors.
>
>This euphoric effect also appears to involve another mechanism in
>which the GABA-inhibitory interneurons of the ventral tegmental area
>come into play. By attaching to their mu receptors, exogenous
>opioids reduce the amount of GABA released (see animation).
>Normally, GABA reduces the amount of dopamine released in the
>nucleus accumbens. By inhibiting this inhibitor, the opiates
>ultimately increase the amount of dopamine produced and the amount
>of pleasure felt.
>
>Chronic consumption of opiates inhibits the production of cAMP, but
>this inhibition is offset in the long run by other cAMP production
>mechanisms. When no opiates are available, this increased cAMP
>production capacity comes to the fore and results in neural
>hyperactivity and the sensation of craving the drug.
>
>
>
>
>——–
>  Make FREE PC-to-PC calls with MSN Messenger. Get it now!
>/]=———————————————————————=
>[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands:
>http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
>\]=———————————————————————=
>[/
>
>
>——–
>  Find just what you’re after with the new, more precise MSN Search
>- try it now!
>/]=———————————————————————=
>[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands:
>http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
>\]=———————————————————————=
>[/
>
>
>
>
>/]=———————————————————————=[\
>[%] Ibogaine List Commands:
>http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
>
>\]=———————————————————————=[/
>
>

Be one of the first to try Windows Live Mail /]=———————————————————————=[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%] \]=———————————————————————=[/

Play Trivia with MSN Messenger for a chance to win an XBOX™ 360 prize pack!  /]=———————————————————————=[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%] \]=———————————————————————=[/

From: Kirk <captkirk@clear.net.nz>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Pot calling the Kettle Black?
Date: April 2, 2006 at 6:30:01 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Settle petal, was just a joking comment made between Ann and Randy
Nothing intended in your direction at all, I’m sure
Luv lite n lafta
From: Alan Hehe [mailto:a.h.veil68@hotmail.com] 
Sent: Monday, 3 April 2006 4:32 a.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] Pot calling the Kettle Black?

Hey…uh, Biscuit Boy,
What’s the matter? Do you NOT like my debate with Nick, or do you just not like the fact that Ann paid me a compliment? Do you agree with Nick’s idea that only emotionally repressed individuals receive any sort of high from opiates? If you’ve got something to say, why not come out and say it? Have you never done opiates? Or any drugs? What gives you the right to judge Ann? Personally I don’t care if her comment was influened by a whole gram of Mexican brown! Better a nice compliment from someone high, than a nasty one from someone sober! Now, if I’ve misconstrued your intent, I apologize, but I would appreciate a logical explanation rather than a low-blow insinuation.

From:  biscuitboy714@aol.com
Reply-To:  ibogaine@mindvox.com
To:  ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject:  Re: [Ibogaine] Opiate effects
Date:  Sun, 02 Apr 2006 11:05:09 -0400
>Yea Ann, tell us how much heroin you shot last night. He He I 
>couldn’t help it. I love you Mamma           Randy
>
>—–Original Message—–
>From: Alan Hehe <a.h.veil68@hotmail.com>
>To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
>Sent: Sat, 01 Apr 2006 11:15:03 -0500
>Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Opiate effects
>
>     Hey Ann,
>
>     Thank you for the compliment…Somebody’s got to try to counter 
>his crazy ideas with some sense. Feel free to write me anytime..I 
>really enjoy talking to people on this list and hearing their 
>stories…Oh, don’t tell anyone, but I studied semantics and debate 
>in high school! Just kidding…about the hush hush, as anyone will 
>be able to read this. Oh, heck–LOL! I’m 37, and High school is but 
>a distant, mainly unplesant experience…except when I would catch 
>my English teacher making grammatical or syntactical mistakes, 
>before they moved me into an A.P. college-level class…And no, I’m 
>not conceited, either..but I do enjoy debate! Everyone has certain 
>qualities at which they excel, and others at which they are 
>deficient. I make up for my skill in English by being a retard in 
>math! Plus, I couldn’t be that smart or I wouldn’t be here, looking 
>for a way out of the hell-hole I dug for myself….and despite 
>having a really shitty childhood, I take complete responsibility for 
>my current position in 
>life……………………………….Wishing you the best in 
>all…….Alan.
>
>
>
>  ——–
>From: “Ann B. Mullikin” <think@francomm.com>
>Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
>To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
>Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Opiate effects
>Date: Sat, 1 Apr 2006 10:04:20 -0500
>
>  No, I am not Nick but…..
> 
>  Bravo, Alan.  I surely do appreciate the way you use your brain – 
>TO THINK AND TO REASON.  Its good stuff.  Keep on.
> 
>ann
>think@francomm.com
> 
>  —– Original Message —–
>From: Alan Hehe
>To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
>Sent: Friday, March 31, 2006 4:49 PM
>Subject: [Ibogaine] Opiate effects
>
>
>    Hey Nick,
> 
>     I wanted to say that, although I was basically right, I believe 
>(and according to the research I’ve done) about the reason opiates 
>cause pleasure, I wasn’t entirely correct about the natural opiates 
>(dopamine,etc) having an effect on mood. They do have an affect on 
>mood..but then again, so does euphoria..in fact, it could be said to 
>be a mood unto itself. Here’s a little medical info for: Opiates 
>(heroin, morphine, etc.)
>
>  The human body naturally produces its own opiate-like substances 
>and uses them as neurotransmitters. These substances include 
>endorphins, enkephalins, and dynorphin, often collectively known as 
>endogenous opioids. Endogenous opioids modulate our reactions to 
>painful stimuli. They also regulate vital functions such as hunger 
>and thirst and are involved in mood control, immune response, and 
>other processes.
>
>The reason that opiates such as heroin and morphine affect us so 
>powerfully is that these exogenous substances bind to the same 
>receptors as our endogenous opioids. There are three kinds of 
>receptors widely distributed throughout the brain: mu, delta, and 
>kappa receptors.
>
>These receptors, through second messengers, influence the likelihood 
>that ion channels will open, which in certain cases reduces the 
>excitability of neurons. This reduced excitability is the likely 
>source of the euphoric effect of opiates and appears to be mediated 
>by the mu and delta receptors.
>
>This euphoric effect also appears to involve another mechanism in 
>which the GABA-inhibitory interneurons of the ventral tegmental area 
>come into play. By attaching to their mu receptors, exogenous 
>opioids reduce the amount of GABA released (see animation). 
>Normally, GABA reduces the amount of dopamine released in the 
>nucleus accumbens. By inhibiting this inhibitor, the opiates 
>ultimately increase the amount of dopamine produced and the amount 
>of pleasure felt.
>
>Chronic consumption of opiates inhibits the production of cAMP, but 
>this inhibition is offset in the long run by other cAMP production 
>mechanisms. When no opiates are available, this increased cAMP 
>production capacity comes to the fore and results in neural 
>hyperactivity and the sensation of craving the drug.
>
>
>
>
>——–
>  Make FREE PC-to-PC calls with MSN Messenger. Get it now! 
>/]=———————————————————————=
>[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands: 
>http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%] 
>\]=———————————————————————=
>[/
>
>
>——–
>  Find just what you’re after with the new, more precise MSN Search 
>- try it now!   
>/]=———————————————————————=
>[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands: 
>http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%] 
>\]=———————————————————————=
>[/
>
>
>
>  
>/]=———————————————————————=[\
>[%] Ibogaine List Commands: 
>http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
>  
>\]=———————————————————————=[/
>
>
Be one of the first to try Windows Live Mail
/]=———————————————————————=[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%] \]=———————————————————————=[/

From: “Guy Bragge” <guybragge@mweb.co.za>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Tired & OK Today
Date: April 3, 2006 at 1:11:02 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Bill looking forward to lunch. I am a similar age and have years of
problems with almost all the substances. I have rehabbed and detoxed more
times than I can remember. I have been aware of Ibo for about 6 years but I
live in South Africa and could not find it or the right people. A couple of
months ago I found some amazing people here and did the Ibo. I have been
clean for almost 6 amazing weeks. I felt like Ibo was my last chance, in
that I was close to giving up and giving in to the drugs. Ibogaine has
changed my life. Before I did I was asking questions like, what if it
doesn’t work etc. Well it did. Bill, you may have found the answer to your
substance problems.
Best of luck
Guy
Ps where is lunch

—–Original Message—–
From: BILL JOHNSON [mailto:billjohnson6@sympatico.ca]
Sent: 01 April 2006 04:07
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Tired & OK Today

Callie, I guess I need to really try and spend some time reading more (all)
posts so as to get to know whats going on ,whos who and where we’er all from

and stuff.
What I gather so far is that most have come through life this far and have

decided that they have more to offer this world yet and are now attempting
to make a differance, beginning with whos in the mirror.
Callie So far , well its kinda hard to be humble (My BIGGEST Problem) well

you have sent a couple of replies to me and they are what has kinda lifted
me up, its weird kinda, but sometimes it just takes a gentle word or 2 or
even just knowing someones listening makes such a differance. At least with
myself, I have always been rather sensitive.
Now orI would (A dream) write a book, but for now Callie and my other Ibo

friends I want to share just a short testimonie about myself. I believe that

with the properly prepared words from the heart can and does make a
differance.
Well this is my 3rd and most difficult fight I have had or been through
(going through) with drugs.
I am 43years young next month, Married for 13 years-(ya she stuck it out the

crazy lady) and 2 boys are married off 23 & 25 uh ha, 2 grand kids. And 2
ever soo precious girls at home, 11 and 7.
I have had 2 x 6 years clean, 1st time a 28 day program Nov,1988, Then
alls really well, married with new baby  then1995 and Cocaine was a way to
make a quick buck -didn’t work —
1996 went to a Christian teatment center for 6 months ,supposed to be a
year, got out , relapsed a couple times and then stayed the path until I
started on percs for a little pain then as 2 and a half years went by I was
into Oxys by the hand full- and I am still dabbling as a in between when I
over drink my meth.

Soory I wasn’t going to write a story.- but had a service business that I am

back into. yet now I am much less busy but that is just a little bit of my
life,

MY GOAL IS TO SOMEHOW (I NEED A MIRACLE) TO GET MY LIFE BACK, TO HOPEFULLY
GET TO DO THE IBOGAINE AS SOON AS POSSIBLE.
mUCH TO DO FIRST, LIKE HAVE A PLAN, which is something that I am not great
at making,

What I need is Accountability, and unfortunately I cannot put my load on my
wife, she has carried me far enough and she needs to be able to just see
that her husband is moving forward and showing her something and not just
doing my GOOD Talk.

Well if anybody actually read this whole thing I’ll buy you Lunch. ?? maybe!

Blessings to you all

—-Original Message Follows—-
From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Tired
Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2006 13:59:27 EST
MIME-Version: 1.0
Received: from tomts3-srv.bellnexxia.net ([209.226.175.115]) by
bay0-pamc1-f4.bay0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Fri,
31 Mar 2006 12:45:42 -0800
Received: from toip4.bellnexxia.net ([209.226.175.87])          by
tomts3-srv.bellnexxia.net          (InterMail vM.5.01.06.13
201-253-122-130-113-20050324) with ESMTP          id
<20060331204644.NPYH19199.tomts3-srv.bellnexxia.net@toip4.bellnexxia.net>

for <billjohnson6@sympatico.ca>; Fri, 31 Mar 2006 15:46:44 -0500
Received: from tanelorn.mindvox.com (HELO mail.mindvox.com)
([64.124.179.118])  by toip4.bellnexxia.net with ESMTP; 31 Mar 2006 15:45:39

-0500
Received: (qmail 6731 invoked by uid 513); 31 Mar 2006 15:45:33 -0500
Received: (qmail 6725 invoked by uid 514); 31 Mar 2006 15:45:33 -0500
X-Message-Info: moY6YVwXQ47mVfv++ujVxtrMaJ7H9FHSrOq4HL6XqKU=
Mailing-List: contact ibogaine-help@mindvox.com; run by ezmlm
Precedence: bulk
X-No-Archive: yes
List-Post: <mailto:ibogaine@mindvox.com>
List-Help: <mailto:ibogaine-help@mindvox.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:ibogaine-unsubscribe@mindvox.com>
List-Subscribe: <mailto:ibogaine-subscribe@mindvox.com>
Delivered-To: mailing list ibogaine@mindvox.com
X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.1 required=4.0
X-Antivirus-MYDOMAIN-Mail-From: calliemimosa@aol.com via
tanelorn.mindvox.com
X-Antivirus-MYDOMAIN: 1.25-st-qms (Clear:RC:0(64.12.138.202):SA:0(0.1/4.0):.

Processed in 1.225692 secs Process 6710)
X-Mailer: 9.0 Security Edition for Windows sub 2340
X-Antivirus-MYDOMAIN-MOVED-X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-AOL-IP: 172.21.18.202
Return-Path: ibogaine-return-23206-billjohnson6=sympatico.ca@mindvox.com
X-OriginalArrivalTime: 31 Mar 2006 20:45:42.0561 (UTC)
FILETIME=[13B6B910:01C65504]

Hi Bill, Welcome to the list.
Can you please share more about yourself…how old you are, location, drugs
of choice, previous attempts at a clean way of life,etc., etc……..
Hope to hear more about you! So far, it sounds like you have found
something
that might change your life!!
Callie

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html
[%]

\]=———————————————————————=[/

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: “Guy Bragge” <guybragge@mweb.co.za>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] OT from methadone list – Herman Joseph on stigma and methadone
Date: April 3, 2006 at 8:02:15 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Sara have you read the Koran/?
Guy
—–Original Message—–
From: Sara Glatt [mailto:sara119@xs4all.nl]
Sent: 02 April 2006 16:29
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] OT from methadone list – Herman Joseph on stigma and
methadone

“I am 100% responsible for everything that happens to me.” Nick Wrote,

I think that people in a confused mind setting can not be responsible for
everything that happens to them.

How the above is valid in the below info., nine years old girl,huh, and
the rest. well they are not drug addicts but religion is an opiate of the
people, when there is no religion then drug use become a ritual and a
religion.

These are just some of the facts that Muslims have been keeping secret,
but they are
enough to make any reasonable person doubt the validity of Islam. Muhammad
was
guilty of countless murders and of torturing his victims. He robbed
caravans and
participated in the slave-trade. His persecution of the Jews bordered on
genocide.
His polygamy went beyond that which even his own revelations permitted
(though he
did receive a revelation saying that this was okay for him). One of his
wives was a
nine-year-old girl, whose earliest duties in Muhammad’s house included the
constant
task of washing the semen stains off his clothes. At times he believed he
was
demon-possessed or under the effect of magic. He was known to be suicidal.
He
admittedly received a message from Satan and delivered it to the people as
if it
were from God. He declared that women have half the intellectual ability
that men
have, that it is okay for men to beat their wives, that most of the
inhabitants of
hell are women, and that, even if a woman somehow makes it to heaven, her
eternity
will consist of standing in a corner, waiting for men to sexually enjoy
her.[21]

These details about Muhammad raise a very important question: What does a
prophet
have to do before Muslims will be willing to question whether he is truly
the
greatest moral example in history? Normally, when we say that someone is a
moral
person, we mean that he doesn’t commit acts such as robbery and murder.
Yet Muhammad
did all these things and much more. It appears, then, that Muslims are
using the
term “moral” in a very unique way. In this uniquely Muslim sense of the
term, the
word “moral” is defined as “whatever Muhammad does.” Thus, if Muhammad
were to chop
off the heads of hundreds of people (which he did), this act would still
be defined
as a moral act, since Muhammad did it, and anything Muhammad does is, by
definition,
moral.

But this raises another important question. If God’s greatest prophet is
free to
take part in murder, robbery, genocide, and slave-trading, can we really
point a
finger at people like Osama bin Laden and Saddam Hussein and say that they
are evil?
They killed many innocents, but so did Muhammad. Saddam tortured countless
people,
but so did Muhammad. In fact, one could make a case that Osama bin Laden
is morally
superior to Muhammad, for, while bin Laden killed thousands of people, he
didn’t
sell their wives and children into slavery, or have sex with a little
girl, or marry
more than a dozen women.

The truth about Muhammad has been one of the world’s best-kept secrets. For
centuries, it has been virtually impossible to raise objections about the
character
of Muhammad in Muslim countries, for anyone who raised such objections would
(following the example set by Muhammad himself) immediately be killed.
Outside the
Muslim world, there has been little interest in Islam, and those who have
been
interested have typically relied on modern Muslim reports about Muhammad,
such as
the above passage from Mawdudi. But things have changed. Now many people are
interested in Islam, and Muslims aren’t able to silence everyone.
Moreover, with the
advent of the Internet, it is now impossible to keep Muhammad’s life a
secret. The
facts about the founder of Islam are spreading very rapidly, and Muslims are
frantically scurrying to defend their faith. But the information
superhighway is
paving over the ignorance that has for centuries been the stronghold of
Islamic
dogma. In the end, Islam will fall, for the entire structure is built upon
the
belief that Muhammad was the greatest moral example in history, and this
belief is
demonstrably false.

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html
[%]

\]=———————————————————————=[/

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: “Alberto Sola” <plago@hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] (Sorta WAY OT!- semi-nuddie pics) Fw: slipper pix
Date: April 3, 2006 at 4:16:08 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hola:
Nice pics is good to have ilustrations.
Headrush you had combine the opening of the blood vessels on your skin brain etc. and standing up suddenly that caused momentary lack of blood and oxygen to your brain. Similar to people that like to experience in erotic asphixia (don’t try it a lot of them end up choked dead)
Saludos
Alberto
/]=———————————————————————=[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%] \]=———————————————————————=[/

From: “Jasen Chamoun” <jasenhappy@optusnet.com.au>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Tired & OK Today
Date: April 1, 2006 at 9:59:43 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hello Bill,

My name is Jasen I am from Australia,..you owe me lunch.

Again, welcome and thankyou for the story. You are in such
a good place here.

love, Jasen
—– Original Message —– From: “BILL JOHNSON” <billjohnson6@sympatico.ca>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Saturday, April 01, 2006 12:07 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Tired & OK Today

Callie, I guess I need to really try and spend some time reading more (all) posts so as to get to know whats going on ,whos who and where we’er all from and stuff.
What I gather so far is that most have come through life this far and have decided that they have more to offer this world yet and are now attempting to make a differance, beginning with whos in the mirror.
Callie So far , well its kinda hard to be humble (My BIGGEST Problem) well you have sent a couple of replies to me and they are what has kinda lifted me up, its weird kinda, but sometimes it just takes a gentle word or 2 or even just knowing someones listening makes such a differance. At least with myself, I have always been rather sensitive.
Now I would (A dream) write a book, but for now Callie and my other Ibo friends I want to share just a short testimonie about myself. I believe that with the properly prepared words from the heart can and does make a differance.
Well this is my 3rd and most difficult fight I have had or been through (going through) with drugs.
I am 43years young next month, Married for 13 years-(ya she stuck it out the crazy lady) and 2 boys are married off 23 & 25 uh ha, 2 grand kids. And 2 ever soo precious girls at home, 11 and 7.
I have had 2 x 6 years clean, 1st time a 28 day program Nov,1988, Then alls really well, married with new baby  then1995 and Cocaine was a way to make a quick buck -didn’t work —
1996 went to a Christian teatment center for 6 months ,supposed to be a year, got out , relapsed a couple times and then stayed the path until I started on percs for a little pain then as 2 and a half years went by I was into Oxys by the hand full- and I am still dabbling as a in between when I over drink my meth.

Soory I wasn’t going to write a story.- but had a service business that I am back into. yet now I am much less busy but that is just a little bit of my life,

MY GOAL IS TO SOMEHOW (I NEED A MIRACLE) TO GET MY LIFE BACK, TO HOPEFULLY GET TO DO THE IBOGAINE AS SOON AS POSSIBLE.
mUCH TO DO FIRST, LIKE HAVE A PLAN, which is something that I am not great at making,

What I need is Accountability, and unfortunately I cannot put my load on my wife, she has carried me far enough and she needs to be able to just see that her husband is moving forward and showing her something and not just doing my GOOD Talk.

Well if anybody actually read this whole thing I’ll buy you Lunch. ?? maybe!

Blessings to you all

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: “angela baker” <angela71263@hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Ibo Love
Date: April 3, 2006 at 5:44:33 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Again Hi everybody!…Just in case the last message didn’t get to everybody…while my computer was down…I somehow got all this chat about Ibogaine in my e-mail…and what I’m reading is very interesting and I’ve wanted to do this ever since I first read about it, but very quickly found out that you have to be rich or go to South America!!…I know there’s other options out there…I just need to find the right source…..I live in Denver Colorado ..so if anyone could help me do this…I would be eternally grateful!!

From: Kirk <captkirk@clear.net.nz>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Ibo Love
Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2006 07:37:50 +1200

Chi is lucky in that she will have Jasen with her for the treatment so ITS
ALL GEWD!!!!!!!!

_____

From: HSLotsof@aol.com [mailto:HSLotsof@aol.com]
Sent: Wednesday, 22 March 2006 7:33 a.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Ibo Love

Chi,

Everyone on this list is supportive of you.  We expect miracles but accept
earthly delights and realities.  Aspects of ibogaine effects that I find
most interesting is its ability to make the fragile strong and  to remove
the fear that drives pathological drug dependence. But, there are never
guarantees.  I could go on saying great thins about ibogaine but, there have
also been a few fatalities and there is no definitive reason as to why. The
developing belief within this discussion is that most likely they are
cardiac related events which is one reason virtually everyone who goes for
ibogaine therapy is asked to present an EKG and that is no guarantee. It
just eliminates an at risk group.

http://doraweiner.org/aatod_hrc.html#kamlet

Howard

In a message dated 3/20/06 8:02:33 PM, cm67@optusnet.com.au writes:

thanks jasen, you’re always so positive. i feel im doing so well at the
moment but i am still fragile –
if claude wasnt here as support i feel that anyone being negative about my
progress will make me think
‘what the hell, might as well go and score then. i am just a useless junkie
afterall’. because im lucky enough
to have people like claude and yourself encouraging me im not going to let
that happen.
kung fu last night. an hour and half of sheer torture, my legs are in agony.
chi xo
btw…;. kirsty is hysterical, you guys must have had a ball
—– Original Message —–
From: “Jasen Chamoun” <jasenhappy@optusnet.com.au>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Tuesday, March 21, 2006 10:43 AM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Ibo Love

> Hey Chi,
>
> I think you misunderstand. One of the main concerns about doing Ibo’ is
> that people may attempt to have a session by themselves which can be
> very dangerous.
>
> You will get to know the personalities on the list as time goes by.
>
> When Sara says to you “don’t do it your self” that’s the best advice to
> start
> with. So when someone says,”Nice one Sara” I am assuming they mean
> that’s the best advice first and foremost.
>
> Keep on,..your doing great.  I fished on this list for 4 months before
> doing
> my treatment at Sara’s,..sometimes I caught nothing other times I caught
> a good feed and there was times I caught some beauties.
>
>                                                          love, Jasen

_________________________________________________________________
Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today – it’s FREE! http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] (OT) Re: [Ibogaine] Opiate effects
Date: April 4, 2006 at 3:52:39 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

LOL, funny you shoulda caught that.
I just caught it myself.
It was a slip, inadvertant too.

—–
“If God dropped acid, would he see people?”  ~Steven Wright

Peace, love and lotsof respect.
Preston Peet
ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor Underground- the Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations, Astonishing Archaeology and Hidden History
Editor Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Columnist HighTimes mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.
—– Original Message —–
From: Alan Hehe
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Tuesday, April 04, 2006 3:12 AM
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] (OT) Re: [Ibogaine] Opiate effects

Hey Preston–
I was reading your bio in E.t.y.k.i.w. and noticed that YOU are a muscian as well! What do you play? And was “steady beat on the drugs” intentional, or a slip? In any case, thank you–it gave me a much-needed laugh!

From:  “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Reply-To:  ibogaine@mindvox.com
To:  <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Subject:  [Ibogaine] (OT) Re: [Ibogaine] Opiate effects
Date:  Sun, 2 Apr 2006 20:51:06 -0400
>BTW all, Randy is one hell of a musician, can rip on a harmonica,
>not to mention keep  asteady beat on the drugs, and can sing a mean
>blues tune.
>He rocks in other words.
>;-))
>—–
>”If God dropped acid, would he see people?”  ~Steven Wright
>
>Peace, love and lotsof respect.
>Preston Peet
>ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
>Editor Underground- the Disinformation Guide to Ancient
>Civilizations, Astonishing Archaeology and Hidden History
>Editor Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs
>Editor http://www.drugwar.com
>Columnist HighTimes mag/.com
>Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
>Columnist New York Waste
>Etc.
>
>—– Original Message —– From: <biscuitboy714@aol.com>
>To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
>Sent: Sunday, April 02, 2006 11:05 AM
>Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Opiate effects
>
>
>Yea Ann, tell us how much heroin you shot last night. He He I
>couldn’t
>help it. I love you Mamma           Randy
>
>—–Original Message—–
>From: Alan Hehe <a.h.veil68@hotmail.com>
>To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
>Sent: Sat, 01 Apr 2006 11:15:03 -0500
>Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Opiate effects
>
>   Hey Ann,
>
>  Thank you for the compliment…Somebody’s got to try to counter
>his
>crazy ideas with some sense. Feel free to write me anytime..I really
>enjoy talking to people on this list and hearing their stories…Oh,
>don’t tell anyone, but I studied semantics and debate in high
>school! Just kidding…about the hush hush, as anyone will be able
>to
>read this. Oh, heck–LOL! I’m 37, and High school is but a distant,
>mainly unplesant experience…except when I would catch my English
>teacher making grammatical or syntactical mistakes, before they
>moved
>me into an A.P. college-level class…And no, I’m not conceited,
>either..but I do enjoy debate! Everyone has certain qualities at
>which
>they excel, and others at which they are deficient. I make up for my
>skill in English by being a retard in math! Plus, I couldn’t be that
>smart or I wouldn’t be here, looking for a way out of the hell-hole
>I
>dug for myself….and despite having a really shitty childhood, I
>take
>complete responsibility for my current position in
>life……………………………….Wishing you the best in
>all…….Alan.
>
>
>
>  ——–
>From: “Ann B. Mullikin” <think@francomm.com>
>Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
>To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
>Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Opiate effects
>Date: Sat, 1 Apr 2006 10:04:20 -0500
>
>  No, I am not Nick but…..
>
>  Bravo, Alan. I surely do appreciate the way you use your brain –
>TO
>THINK AND TO REASON. Its good stuff. Keep on.
>
>ann
>think@francomm.com
>
>  —– Original Message —–
>From: Alan Hehe
>To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
>Sent: Friday, March 31, 2006 4:49 PM
>Subject: [Ibogaine] Opiate effects
>
>
>  Hey Nick,
>
>  I wanted to say that, although I was basically right, I believe
>(and according to the research I’ve done) about the reason opiates
>cause pleasure, I wasn’t entirely correct about the natural opiates
>(dopamine,etc) having an effect on mood. They do have an affect on
>mood..but then again, so does euphoria..in fact, it could be said to
>be
>a mood unto itself. Here’s a little medical info for: Opiates
>(heroin,
>morphine, etc.)
>
>  The human body naturally produces its own opiate-like substances
>and
>uses them as neurotransmitters. These substances include endorphins,
>enkephalins, and dynorphin, often collectively known as endogenous
>opioids. Endogenous opioids modulate our reactions to painful
>stimuli.
>They also regulate vital functions such as hunger and thirst and are
>involved in mood control, immune response, and other processes.
>
>The reason that opiates such as heroin and morphine affect us so
>powerfully is that these exogenous substances bind to the same
>receptors as our endogenous opioids. There are three kinds of
>receptors
>widely distributed throughout the brain: mu, delta, and kappa
>receptors.
>
>These receptors, through second messengers, influence the likelihood
>that ion channels will open, which in certain cases reduces the
>excitability of neurons. This reduced excitability is the likely
>source
>of the euphoric effect of opiates and appears to be mediated by the
>mu
>and delta receptors.
>
>This euphoric effect also appears to involve another mechanism in
>which
>the GABA-inhibitory interneurons of the ventral tegmental area come
>into play. By attaching to their mu receptors, exogenous opioids
>reduce
>the amount of GABA released (see animation). Normally, GABA reduces
>the
>amount of dopamine released in the nucleus accumbens. By inhibiting
>this inhibitor, the opiates ultimately increase the amount of
>dopamine
>produced and the amount of pleasure felt.
>
>Chronic consumption of opiates inhibits the production of cAMP, but
>this inhibition is offset in the long run by other cAMP production
>mechanisms. When no opiates are available, this increased cAMP
>production capacity comes to the fore and results in neural
>hyperactivity and the sensation of craving the drug.
>
>
>
>
>——–
>  Make FREE PC-to-PC calls with MSN Messenger. Get it now!
>/]=———————————————————————=
>[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands:
>http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
>\]=———————————————————————=
>[/
>
>
>——–
>  Find just what you’re after with the new, more precise MSN Search
>-
>try it now!
>/]=———————————————————————=
>[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands:
>http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
>\]=———————————————————————=
>[/
>
>
>
>
>/]=———————————————————————=[\
>[%] Ibogaine List Commands:
>http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
>
>\]=———————————————————————=[/
>
>
>
>/]=———————————————————————=[\
>[%] Ibogaine List Commands:
>http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
>
>\]=———————————————————————=[/
>
>

Save time by starting a search from any Web page with the MSN Search Toolbar-FREE! /]=———————————————————————=[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%] \]=———————————————————————=[/

From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] (OT) Re: [Ibogaine] Opiate effects
Date: April 4, 2006 at 3:51:54 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

drums, not drugs, please excuse my sloppy spelling Randy and all.
—–
“If God dropped acid, would he see people?”  ~Steven Wright

Peace, love and lotsof respect.
Preston Peet
ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor Underground- the Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations, Astonishing Archaeology and Hidden History
Editor Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Columnist HighTimes mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —– From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Sunday, April 02, 2006 8:51 PM
Subject: [Ibogaine] (OT) Re: [Ibogaine] Opiate effects

BTW all, Randy is one hell of a musician, can rip on a harmonica, not to mention keep  asteady beat on the drugs, and can sing a mean blues tune.
He rocks in other words.
;-))
—–
“If God dropped acid, would he see people?”  ~Steven Wright

Peace, love and lotsof respect.
Preston Peet
ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor Underground- the Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations, Astonishing Archaeology and Hidden History
Editor Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Columnist HighTimes mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —– From: <biscuitboy714@aol.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Sunday, April 02, 2006 11:05 AM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Opiate effects

Yea Ann, tell us how much heroin you shot last night. He He I couldn’t
help it. I love you Mamma           Randy

—–Original Message—–
From: Alan Hehe <a.h.veil68@hotmail.com>
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Sat, 01 Apr 2006 11:15:03 -0500
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Opiate effects

Hey Ann,

Thank you for the compliment…Somebody’s got to try to counter his
crazy ideas with some sense. Feel free to write me anytime..I really
enjoy talking to people on this list and hearing their stories…Oh,
don’t tell anyone, but I studied semantics and debate in high
school! Just kidding…about the hush hush, as anyone will be able to
read this. Oh, heck–LOL! I’m 37, and High school is but a distant,
mainly unplesant experience…except when I would catch my English
teacher making grammatical or syntactical mistakes, before they moved
me into an A.P. college-level class…And no, I’m not conceited,
either..but I do enjoy debate! Everyone has certain qualities at which
they excel, and others at which they are deficient. I make up for my
skill in English by being a retard in math! Plus, I couldn’t be that
smart or I wouldn’t be here, looking for a way out of the hell-hole I
dug for myself….and despite having a really shitty childhood, I take
complete responsibility for my current position in
life……………………………….Wishing you the best in
all…….Alan.

——–
From: “Ann B. Mullikin” <think@francomm.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Opiate effects
Date: Sat, 1 Apr 2006 10:04:20 -0500

No, I am not Nick but…..

Bravo, Alan. I surely do appreciate the way you use your brain – TO
THINK AND TO REASON. Its good stuff. Keep on.

ann
think@francomm.com

—– Original Message —–
From: Alan Hehe
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Friday, March 31, 2006 4:49 PM
Subject: [Ibogaine] Opiate effects

Hey Nick,

I wanted to say that, although I was basically right, I believe
(and according to the research I’ve done) about the reason opiates
cause pleasure, I wasn’t entirely correct about the natural opiates
(dopamine,etc) having an effect on mood. They do have an affect on
mood..but then again, so does euphoria..in fact, it could be said to be
a mood unto itself. Here’s a little medical info for: Opiates (heroin,
morphine, etc.)

The human body naturally produces its own opiate-like substances and
uses them as neurotransmitters. These substances include endorphins,
enkephalins, and dynorphin, often collectively known as endogenous
opioids. Endogenous opioids modulate our reactions to painful stimuli.
They also regulate vital functions such as hunger and thirst and are
involved in mood control, immune response, and other processes.

The reason that opiates such as heroin and morphine affect us so
powerfully is that these exogenous substances bind to the same
receptors as our endogenous opioids. There are three kinds of receptors
widely distributed throughout the brain: mu, delta, and kappa
receptors.

These receptors, through second messengers, influence the likelihood
that ion channels will open, which in certain cases reduces the
excitability of neurons. This reduced excitability is the likely source
of the euphoric effect of opiates and appears to be mediated by the mu
and delta receptors.

This euphoric effect also appears to involve another mechanism in which
the GABA-inhibitory interneurons of the ventral tegmental area come
into play. By attaching to their mu receptors, exogenous opioids reduce
the amount of GABA released (see animation). Normally, GABA reduces the
amount of dopamine released in the nucleus accumbens. By inhibiting
this inhibitor, the opiates ultimately increase the amount of dopamine
produced and the amount of pleasure felt.

Chronic consumption of opiates inhibits the production of cAMP, but
this inhibition is offset in the long run by other cAMP production
mechanisms. When no opiates are available, this increased cAMP
production capacity comes to the fore and results in neural
hyperactivity and the sensation of craving the drug.

——–
Make FREE PC-to-PC calls with MSN Messenger. Get it now!
/]=———————————————————————=
[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands:
http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=
[/

——–
Find just what you’re after with the new, more precise MSN Search –
try it now!
/]=———————————————————————=
[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands:
http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=
[/

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: Crooked Eye <iboganaut420@yahoo.com>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Whats a Republican?
Date: April 4, 2006 at 3:53:49 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Cow’s are tasty…  If we aren’t supposed to eat animals, then why are they made out of meat?  😀  I fail how to see eating cows equates to racism…  I eat a lot of cows, but I have a mixed family…  If it makes you feel any better we eat a lot of chickens, too..  I love turkey, the tryptophan makes me sleepy…

Alan Hehe <a.h.veil68@hotmail.com> wrote:
Don’t call me Baby…well, you can…since you’re not close enough for me to do anything about it! Plus, that’s a freedom, too…Just like my ability to talk about pro-choice. As for your information, no, I don’t think the way the abortion system is set up–but I absolutely believe in having the right…And no, you don’t have 9 months to decide whether to have the rug rat or not–there is a cut-off, a limit to when abortions can be performed.
And so you think, because cows aren’t pets, or aren’t ‘cute’, then it’s okay to torture them? And to cut the balls of bulls off without any anesthetic? To make chickens live in a cage so small they can barely turn around? And George Bush–wanting to save lives! LOL! That’s the biggest joke I’ve ever heard! But it figures; you’re not special..alot of the people in this country are brain-washed by the constant disinformation they are fed….Why do you think there are a hundred commercials warning of the dangers of marijuana, one of the least harmful drugs known to man, but yet maybe one out of those hundred about the truly dangerous drugs, like H or Coke?
And you don’t have to be a hindu to have compassion for animals other than cats and dogs, you dumb-ass red-neck! In some places they eat dogs…would that be okay if they ate your dog? You know, I’m totally wasting my time talking to you, I can already tell that you are way undereducated, extremely prejudiced. Cows are just food. Are blacks just niggers, too? God, I can’t stand fuckin’ red-necks like you, especially the ones that actually think they’re smart. Once you start doing away with freedoms, it’s all down-hill. Who’s going to decide what’s right and wrong? You?! I would happily put a hollow-point 45 shell into my head if that possibility existed..of course G.W.B. is quite the redneck himself, which is why you probably like him. First of all, HE’s not fighting for anything. I have respect for the soldiers; they don’t decide the mission, they just do what they’re told. And how many babies do you think die while we were waging a war we were totally lied to about? Or is that okay? You think the babies over there even know what a terrorist is? This world is already over-populated..if people like you ran things, the world would run out of resources within a decade! The oh so precious children! Everyone starts out as a child..some people, like you, remain one, in their minds, their whole life. But those sweet children often grow up to be killers and rapists, and often for no apparent reason!  Strong belief does only one thing: close your mind. Boy, that ibogaine is gonna have fun with you!!!!! Cows are just food! Well, we’re just food, too…if a grizzly decides you look good! God, what egotism!  You claim to be a Christian (I do not) but you must have misssed the part about not judging lest you be judged yourself…And I bet ibo’s gonna drive that one home with a psychoactive sledgehammer! You’ve got your response, but I really no longer wish to talk with you. I’ve spent too much time arguing with all the fascists on this list, instead of hanging out with the cool, in the know ,people: by that meaning knowing that the whole Govt. is totally corrupt, actually controlled by a few wealthy and extremely powerful people, and they constantly just feed us disinformation, while manipulating the world through economic control, etc, and alot of other things you wouldn’t understand. BYE< NOW, Billy BOY. Go get a burger!

From:  “Billy J” <billjohnson6@sympatico.ca>
Reply-To:  ibogaine@mindvox.com
To:  ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject:  RE: [Ibogaine] Whats a Republican?
Date:  Tue, 04 Apr 2006 02:19:25 -0400
>Hear this peace and take it to your Heart FRIEND.
>1st if we go back to Killing kids for the sins of their fathers
>(Child of a Rapist) Do you think that is more civilized then Raising
>Cattle for food,(Cattle are food “not Pets”) although you may be
>from India or somewhere that they worship your cows and even there
>fecal matter I hear! Now if your are at that junkger(Place) then I
>will have to say -well Al, Bless you, but when was the last time you
>had your precious cow go to war for YOUR FREEDOMS that I am sure you
>are enjoying- Yes?
>   Allan , do you really love cows (the 4 legged ones that is) or
>are you in your 2nd or 3rd reincarnation and you where once a cow
>and you have come into this wierd mooing stage and you just could
>not figure it out.
>  Ok That is sarcasm – Sorry< I’ll get serious.
>Oh Ya Your aborting a fetus-, and yes I know that in the USof A
>being the most civilized Nation that has usually voted anti-
>Christian ( just in case somebody didn’t let Everybody do what FEELs
>GOOD)
>Ya you can Have sex with anybody you want and then if a girl gets
>pregnant, or do you call it fetus something, oh well  so shes
>pregnant you have 9 months to decide whether or not you what the
>little BLOB Because your fetus can be kicking up a storm and as long
>as you can keep its stupid( oh it,s brain isn’t functioning yet
>,right) well as long as you can keep its head inside the grown up
>fetus ( that would be the female, The pregnant one, knocked up one ,
>dumb one what ever you would call someone like that ( Maybe MOM)
>well just reach in and CRUSH ITS SCULL and or STICK A SYRINGE INTO
>THe Back of it HEAD JUST UNTIL ITS STOPS PUTTINGN UP A FIGHT, AND
>they do fight Allan, just go and ask your abortion doctor.– PARTIAL
>BIRTH ABORTION– VERY NICE–
>  oH YA AND YOU KNOW WHAT ALLY BABY THAT STUPID WAR MOGER THAT YOU
>HAVE AS A PRESIDENT WOULD LIKE NOTHING MORE THAN TO SAVE PEOPLE BUT
>ALL YOU PEOPLE THAT GOD GAVE YOU FREE CHOICE HAVE DECIDED TO VOTE
>FOR THE REAL KILLERS-
>   Have you any clue how many of your fetuses are done away with
>each year in the USA alone,, Allan Baby– way way more in 1 year
>than have been killed in ALL the World wars— How many do you think
>are rape and how many are just another form of birth control,, Your
>Planned Parenthood is a multi-Billion dollar industry that fights
>for you to have the freedom to get rid of your Babies- But They do
>not do it for free– They are rich.One more thing if we can justify
>killing because you THINK they don’t feel pain- Why not line up all
>us addicts right after a good whack and while we are feeling no pain
>BANG-
>Save a lot of tax dollars- The Meth Clinics would be Pissed though.
>
>Love Ya!
>
>Just Don’t say it is OK To Kill My Children- Or Yours
>
>B
>
>—-Original Message Follows—-
>From: “Alan Hehe” <a.h.veil68@hotmail.com>
>Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
>To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
>Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] RE: [Pornography,psychology,Choice,force,) 2
>cents
>Date: Tue, 04 Apr 2006 01:25:21 -0400
>MIME-Version: 1.0
>Received: from tomts30-srv.bellnexxia.net ([209.226.175.104]) by
>bay0-pamc1-f3.bay0.hotmail.com with Microsoft
>SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Mon, 3 Apr 2006 22:27:22 -0700
>Received: from toip4.bellnexxia.net ([209.226.175.87])          by
>tomts30-srv.bellnexxia.net          (InterMail vM.5.01.06.13
>201-253-122-130-113-20050324) with ESMTP          id
><20060404052721.IXFI18550.tomts30-srv.bellnexxia.net@toip4.bellnexxia.net>
>          for <billjohnson6@sympatico.ca>; Tue, 4 Apr 2006 01:27:21
>-0400
>Received: from tanelorn.mindvox.com (HELO mail.mindvox.com)
>([64.124.179.118])  by toip4.bellnexxia.net with ESMTP; 04 Apr 2006
>01:27:16 -0400
>Received: (qmail 1073 invoked by uid 513); 4 Apr 2006 01:27:15 -0400
>Received: (qmail 1067 invoked by uid 514); 4 Apr 2006 01:27:15 -0400
>X-Message-Info: moY6YVwXQ46hfM+PXD+r03SFMVOY3E1daJYU/Sm1Nkw=
>Mailing-List: contact ibogaine-help@mindvox.com; run by ezmlm
>Precedence: bulk
>X-No-Archive: yes
>List-Post: <mailto:ibogaine@mindvox.com>
>List-Help: <mailto:ibogaine-help@mindvox.com>
>List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:ibogaine-unsubscribe@mindvox.com>
>List-Subscribe: <mailto:ibogaine-subscribe@mindvox.com>
>Delivered-To: mailing list ibogaine@mindvox.com
>X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.1 required=4.0
>X-Antivirus-MYDOMAIN-Mail-From: a.h.veil68@hotmail.com via
>tanelorn.mindvox.com
>X-Antivirus-MYDOMAIN: 1.25-st-qms
>(Clear:RC:0(65.54.224.26):SA:0(-2.1/4.0):. Processed in 8.08646 secs
>Process 1055)
>Return-Path:
>ibogaine-return-23280-billjohnson6=sympatico.ca@mindvox.com
>X-OriginalArrivalTime: 04 Apr 2006 05:27:22.0868 (UTC)
>FILETIME=[7363CB40:01C657A8]
>
>
>
>   I gotta take a piece of this one. Okay, Mr. Anti-choice, let me
>ask you this: do you eat meat? If not, then good for you. If so,
>have you ever though about the actual, truly painful, totally
>inhumane treatment we put animals through? And usually don’t think
>twice about it…It’s people like George Bush who make me wish
>sometimes that God would hurl an asteroid at us! It’s “God forbid
>one human foetus (who does not feel a thing if the abortion is done
>in a timely manner, according to the latest research, because their
>nervous system isn’t nearly fully developed) should perish, no
>matter if it was caused by a rape or is probably going to be born
>into alot of suffering–but while I’m on my high horse, cut me a
>piece o that cow off and cook it up! It’s sheer egotism that we
>believe that humans are so damned
>important, but it’s okay if we torture animals, ruin the planet, and
>make other people adhere to our beliefs!!! We’re not that important!
>And if you believe in a God and the soul, then you know that–if the
>foetus even has a soul yet, which I don’t believe it does..I believe
>the soul enters with the first breath, and leaves with the
>last–that baby is just going back into the arms of God! There is no
>death! And since they don’t experience pain, all it becomes is
>something for people like you to feel self righteous about!
>Personally, I think everyone should smoke pot, and would benefit
>from it (except for a few cases), but how would you like it if I
>MADE you smoke it? That is, if you don’t, and don’t like it. Or
>let’s say you eat meat, but I think it’s just as evil to do that as
>to allow abortions, so I outlawed meat–would that be okay with you?
>And the cliff analogy is just stupid–not
>the same thing at all. But yes, I think if a person is truly
>miserable, and wants to die, I would try to talk them out of it, but
>I would never stop them by force. That’s called LACK OF FREEDOM. And
>if we didn’t make mistakes, how would we ever learn? To be told
>something is wrong is one thing..you can tell a person, fire will
>burn you..but until they get burned, they will not truly understand,
>and that’s what life is all about–learning. No, I don’t like to see
>foetus’ abortions–I think prevention is the answer….But
>sometimes, I believe it is ‘the best choice’. If everyone like you
>had their way, there really would be NO ROOM AT ALL left!!! We’re
>already sooo over-populated! It’s like I heard some character say in
>a movie recently..”everybody’s kids are so special…it makes you
>wonder where all the normal adults come from”. Even God believes in
>freedom of choice! That’s why he gave
>us FREE WILL. You’re a Republican, aren’t you? And you probably
>think that war-mongering asshole of a President is the best-thing
>since sliced bread, eh? It’s okay to kill, as long as it’s not a
>precious child…even though that child may grow up to be The Son of
>Sam!  well…”take me by the ham, no good, no evil, no give a
>damn!”  And the Govt. is lying to you! About just about everything.
>Peace, love, and freedom. Life is too mysterious to take it so
>serious!
>
>
>
>
>
>
>From:  “Billy J” <billjohnson6@sympatico.ca>
>Reply-To:  ibogaine@mindvox.com
>To:  ibogaine@mindvox.com
>Subject:  [Ibogaine] RE: [Pornography,psychology,Choice,force,) 2
>cents
>Date:  Sun, 02 Apr 2006 21:45:39 -0400
> >Well It sounds like this place is really mixing it up so I would
> >like to add a little REALITY TO YOU PRO CHOICERS, I am sure glad I
> >was not an abortion’ althought I have had my moments.
> >Yes My Mom was a young Mom and if she had a choice I think that I
> >would have no Grandkids, or be babbleing on here.
> >     I too have an attitude, It is about the only thing in this
> >world that I really have control over.
> >Tiger– How well did you do with making ALL your own Choices,
> >Instead of doing
>what your were told to do? Not meant to be a shot
> >at you personally, but I am with the Right or Wrong crowd- No such
> >thing as grey.
> >   I do know that some people may have grown up believing that
>wrong
> >was right and right was wrong, but I Think that I pretty much knew
> >when I was stepping out of line and doing wrong.
> >It is (as most believe) My God , no not God, but My worldly given
> >Right- to do wrong- It’s my life and if I want to screw it up then
> >stay out of my way. And you know what I had a lot of sooo called
> >friends that did just that WATCHED, AS i WAS Killing myself and
> >ruining a lot of lifes.
> >But O O O never no no no neverdare step on somebodys toes because
> >you know what they have a choice, Just like those poor little
>Crack
> >%$^&%$ Women that degrade themselves( and me
>myself) due to
> >everybody. But Never No No Never dare tell somebody or force
>someone
> >to get some help that they may never ever make it to on their own,
> >due to something called “Pride” “Shame” “Guilt”
> >Whatever holds them back. They may end up DEAD and it would be
>their
> >own fault, because you know how STRONG us druggies are, and if
>that
> >person dies because he had a choice to get help and refused or
>just
> >couldn’t make it on his/her own and needed YOU (of course they
> >didn’t tell you that).
> >I am sorry but I BELIEVE that if you Love Someone or even care a
> >little, and you see them walking off a cliff and YOU have an
> >opportunity to stop them, and you don’t- Can you truelly say it
>was
> >their own fault?
> >Pornography- I never met too many Normal people that would find it
> >neccesary to take their
>cloths off for the public to see. Totally
> >wrong and if you had your own kids you might not think it too cool
> >having your buddy beating off while checking out your little girl.
> >Not nice eh Billy but P–sy T-ts are not meant for anyone except
>who
> >they belong to and their mate.
> >
> >Bye For Now, That stuff is about the biggest trigger going for any
> >downfall
> >
> >Bill
> >—-Original Message Follows—-
> >From: “Nick Sandberg” <nick227@tiscali.co.uk>
> >Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
> >To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
> >Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Opiates
> >Date: Sun, 2 Apr 2006 10:24:07 +0100
> >MIME-Version: 1.0
> >Received: from tomts21-srv.bellnexxia.net ([209.226.175.183]) by
> >bay0-pamc1-f11.bay0.hotmail.com with Microsoft
> >SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Sun, 2 Apr 2006 05:38:59
>-0700
> >Received: from toip5.bellnexxia.net ([209.226.175.88])          by
> >tomts21-srv.bellnexxia.net          (InterMail vM.5.01.06.13
> >201-253-122-130-113-20050324) with ESMTP          id
> ><20060402123858.HZPV14030.tomts21-srv.bellnexxia.net@toip5.bellnexxia.net>
> >          for <billjohnson6@sympatico.ca>; Sun, 2 Apr 2006
>08:38:58
> >-0400
> >Received: from tanelorn.mindvox.com (HELO mail.mindvox.com)
> >([64.124.179.118])  by toip5.bellnexxia.net with ESMTP; 02 Apr
>2006
> >08:38:58 -0400
> >Received: (qmail 16967 invoked by uid 513); 2 Apr 2006 08:38:55
> >-0400
> >Received: (qmail 16961 invoked by uid
>514); 2 Apr 2006 08:38:55
> >-0400
> >X-Message-Info: moY6YVwXQ44WAJnUvaOEtK2hXKGagKAsshDbZwj7pSc=
> >Mailing-List: contact ibogaine-help@mindvox.com; run by ezmlm
> >Precedence: bulk
> >X-No-Archive: yes
> >List-Post: <mailto:ibogaine@mindvox.com>
> >List-Help: <mailto:ibogaine-help@mindvox.com>
> >List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:ibogaine-unsubscribe@mindvox.com>
> >List-Subscribe: <mailto:ibogaine-subscribe@mindvox.com>
> >Delivered-To: mailing list ibogaine@mindvox.com
> >X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.3 required=4.0
> >X-Antivirus-MYDOMAIN-Mail-From: nick227@tiscali.co.uk via
> >tanelorn.mindvox.com
> >X-Antivirus-MYDOMAIN: 1.25-st-qms
> >(Clear:RC:0(212.74.114.37):SA:0(-2.3/4.0):. Processed in 2.781926
> >secs Process 16953)
> >X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true
> >X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result:
>AQAAAJ0kL0SDE4UI
> >X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.6604 (9.0.2911.0)
> >Return-Path:
> >ibogaine-return-23233-billjohnson6=sympatico.ca@mindvox.com
> >X-OriginalArrivalTime: 02 Apr 2006 12:38:59.0373 (UTC)
> >FILETIME=[6A155DD0:01C65652]
> >
> >
> >   —–Original Message—–
> >   From: Tiger Lisa [mailto:tigerlisa@gmail.com]
> >   Sent: 01 April 2006 13:44
> >   To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
> >   Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Opiates
> >
> >
> >   Dear Nick,
> >   Here’ the part I don’t understand.
> >
> >   You wrote,
> >   Personally, my position is…I think rising awareness is GOOD.
>I
> >would
> >love to see more people in groups, going through their stuff,
> >becoming more
> >aware of their
>personal interior dynamic, and moving forward in
> >life. But,
> >sadly, I’m not in a position to compel people to do this.
> >
> >   Why would you ever want to COMPEL anyone to do ANYTHING? Do you
> >really
> >believe that would be useful, effective, helpful? Do you think
> >people
> >actually benefit from, and grow from, being FORCED to do anything?
> >
> >   That is a parent-child model of interaction (and not a
> >particularly
> >skillful one, IMO), and it’s going to reinforce childlike,
> >rebellious and
> >victim behavior (NOT self-awareness!) in the one so compelled, as
> >well as
> >reinforcing bullying behavior and disprespectful and righteous
> >attitudes
> >(NOT increased compassion or awareness) in the one doing the
> >compelling. A
> >”lose-lose” interaction–no one
>wins!
> >
> >   Myself, I believe CHOICE is the name of the game. With choice
> >comes
> >responsibility, self-responsibility and a loss of the victim
> >consciousness
> >that drives continued reactive and unconscious behavior.
> >
> >   So in a nutshell: Saying something (like awarenss) is GOOD is
>one
> >thing,
> >but it’s a far cry from that to say,”And I’d love to FORCE you all
> >to be
> >more aware! too bad I can’t!” I think that is the essence of
>what
> >*I* am
> >having a problem with. Yes, awareness is good. I agree. Yes, I’d
> >love to
> >live in a more aware society, umm hmm. Then I read the next
>sentence
> >and I’m
> >brought up short.
> >
> >   We all need love, acceptance, compassion. Compassion is one of
> >the most
> >healing things
>going! Power and control, on the other hand, just get
> >people’s backs up, thrust them into dysfunctional modes of
>thinking
> >and
> >perpetuate a lack of awareness all around.
> >
> >   Just my two cents,
> >   Tiger
> >
> >   PS I bet if you took a shot of heroin, you would experience
> >bliss! (not
> >that I’m suggesting you do) I believe it is just how human beings
> >are wired.
> >We’ve all got the same neurotransmitters, more or less.
> >
> >   Hi Tiger,
> >
> >   Well, I seem to recall, from the days when I used to go to
> >conferences and
> >stuff, that studies have shown that only a small percentage of
> >school kids
> >who used heroin developed a habit. (Howard Parker in Sheffield, or
> >something
> >like that, about 1000 individuals
>studied). This is not quite the
> >same as
> >what you’re saying, I appreciate, but it shows that the drug of
> >itself is
> >not necessarily addicting. I don’t know if anyone knows what makes
>a
> >difference but I’d be willing to bet that, psychologically, it
> >relates
> >strongly to “ego orientation” vs “underlying levels of feeling.”
>If
> >you’ve
> >developed a self-image that requires you to repress more feelings
> >than the
> >endogenous opiates in your body can do, then taking heroin is
>going
> >to make
> >you feel pretty good. I would personally say that this is very
> >likely one
> >psychological mechanism behind addiction. This would explain why
>so
> >many
> >addicts do come from relatively high trauma backgrounds. For, as
> >kids, we
> >learn that to “get things” and to “be popular” we need to
>be able to
> >keep
> >our feelings a bit under control, not just likely to collapse from
> >overfeeling at any time.
> >
> >   With bliss, (or anxiety for that matter), these are
>experiential
> >things
> >and no neuroscientist can explain them beyond pointing a little at
> >things
> >that seem to be involved. What is clear is that the states are
> >relative to
> >one another. If you’re basically a happy person bliss is
>inevitably
> >less
> >attractive than if you’re an anxious person.
> >
> >   About awareness, yes, I would love to force everyone to be more
> >aware!
> >And, inevitably, it doesn’t really work like that! But that’s my
> >position
> >anyway. What to do? Yes, compassion is needed, sometimes a lot of
> >it. Also,
> >all the power and control at times. I’m not so
>busy with how I think
> >society
> >should be, or trying to like Understand the world, I just put my
> >position
> >out really. About choice, well, it seems like a great thing, for
> >sure, but
> >to me it’s a little the same as trying to push compassion at the
> >expense of
> >power. In philosophy or spirituality or whatever, some people
> >believe that
> >free will exists, others that the universe is entirely
> >deterministic. Who
> >the fuck knows? Both are cool viewpoints, and I personally
>wouldn’t
> >just
> >want to just trapped in just one of them.
> >
> >   Is it cool to allow someone you care about to carry on fucking
> >their life
> >up because you believe so much in their free will? Not for me! I
> >like to
> >have the guts to take a position. And, to be honest, it’s a little
>
> >bit what
> >I miss in this list, where half the time everyone seems to be
> >talking it up
> >all nice but actually underneath there are shed-loads of feelings.
>I
> >don’t
> >know if this says anything significant about ibogaine, or about
>the
> >people
> >who are attracted to administering it, or what. But I notice it.
> >
> >   Nick
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >/]=———————————————————————=[\
> >[%] Ibogaine List Commands:
> >http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
> >
> >\]=———————————————————————=[/
> >
> >
>
>  With MSN Spaces email straight to your blog. Upload jokes, photos
>and more. It’s free!
>
>
>
>
>/]=———————————————————————=[\
>  [%] Ibogaine List Commands:
>http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
>
>\]=———————————————————————=[/
>
>
>
>
>
>/]=———————————————————————=[\
>[%] Ibogaine List Commands:
>http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
>
>\]=———————————————————————=[/
>
>

Be one of the first to try Windows Live Mail /]=———————————————————————=[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%] \]=———————————————————————=[/

Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. PC-to-Phone calls for ridiculously low rates.

From: “angela baker” <angela71263@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] that glint in the eye
Date: April 3, 2006 at 5:32:29 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hey everybody!…somehow while my computer was down all your chat ended up in my e-mail!…So while I got everybody here I thought I’d ask you all how to do the ibogaine thing without going to South America or paying thousands of dollars….I know there’s an underground but I don’t know how to contact anyone….can anybody help me?

From: tink <tinkerbell.sarah@gmail.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] that glint in the eye
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2006 09:54:07 -0500

Shine on, Preston!!!

On 3/16/06, Preston Peet <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com> wrote:
>
> Interestingly enough, after that cyber discussion about eyes and comments
> about them, someone at Dana’s yesterday evening says to me, completely outta
> the blue, “you’re eyes are shining.”
>     Amazing. I can’t remember the last time(s) folks were telling me I had
> shining eyes. Usually it was “your eyes are fucking billboards, don’t come
> in here all fucked up like that, everyone KNOWS you’re doped to the gills,”
> or “your eyes look dead,” or “why are your pupils so huge and your eyeballs
> buggingoutta your face!”
> Not, “you look so good, alive, shining, twinkling, you have a mischievous
> glint,” etc.
> ;-))))
> —–
> “Unless your past perishes, you are doomed.
> Do you know that?
> Your future must differ from your past.
> The future must always differ from the past.”
> Sophia, in “Valis”- Philip K. Dick
>
> Peace and love,
> Preston
> ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
> Editor Underground
> Editor Under the Influence
> Editor http://www.drugwar.com
> Cont. HighTimes mag/.com
> Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
> Columnist New York Waste
> Etc.
>

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

_________________________________________________________________
On the road to retirement? Check out MSN Life Events for advice on how to get there! http://lifeevents.msn.com/category.aspx?cid=Retirement

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: “Alan Hehe” <a.h.veil68@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Pot calling the Kettle Black?
Date: April 4, 2006 at 3:14:39 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Yeah, I wan’t aware of that until later, and I apoligized to Randy (BiscuitBoy) for it.

From:  “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Reply-To:  ibogaine@mindvox.com
To:  <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Subject:  Re: [Ibogaine] Pot calling the Kettle Black?
Date:  Sun, 2 Apr 2006 21:10:10 -0400
>That Ann’s his mom perhaps gives him the right Alan.
>;-))
>—–
>”If God dropped acid, would he see people?”  ~Steven Wright
>
>Peace, love and lotsof respect.
>Preston Peet
>ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
>Editor Underground- the Disinformation Guide to Ancient
>Civilizations, Astonishing Archaeology and Hidden History
>Editor Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs
>Editor http://www.drugwar.com
>Columnist HighTimes mag/.com
>Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
>Columnist New York Waste
>Etc.
>
>—– Original Message —– From: Alan Hehe
>To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
>Sent: Sunday, April 02, 2006 12:31 PM
>Subject: [Ibogaine] Pot calling the Kettle Black?
>
>
>    Hey…uh, Biscuit Boy,
>    What’s the matter? Do you NOT like my debate with Nick, or do
>you just not like the fact that Ann paid me a compliment? Do you
>agree with Nick’s idea that only emotionally repressed individuals
>receive any sort of high from opiates? If you’ve got something to
>say, why not come out and say it? Have you never done opiates? Or
>any drugs? What gives you the right to judge Ann? Personally I don’t
>care if her comment was influened by a whole gram of Mexican brown!
>Better a nice compliment from someone high, than a nasty one from
>someone sober! Now, if I’ve misconstrued your intent, I apologize,
>but I would appreciate a logical explanation rather than a low-blow
>insinuation.
>
>
>
>
>
>From:  biscuitboy714@aol.com
>Reply-To:  ibogaine@mindvox.com
>To:  ibogaine@mindvox.com
>Subject:  Re: [Ibogaine] Opiate effects
>Date:  Sun, 02 Apr 2006 11:05:09 -0400
>>Yea Ann, tell us how much heroin you shot last night. He He I
>>couldn’t help it. I love you Mamma           Randy
>>
>>—–Original Message—–
>>From: Alan Hehe <a.h.veil68@hotmail.com>
>>To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
>>Sent: Sat, 01 Apr 2006 11:15:03 -0500
>>Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Opiate effects
>>
>>     Hey Ann,
>>
>>     Thank you for the compliment…Somebody’s got to try to
>>counter his crazy ideas with some sense. Feel free to write me
>>anytime..I really enjoy talking to people on this list and hearing
>>their stories…Oh, don’t tell anyone, but I studied semantics and
>>debate in high school! Just kidding…about the hush hush, as
>>anyone will be able to read this. Oh, heck–LOL! I’m 37, and High
>>school is but a distant, mainly unplesant experience…except when
>>I would catch my English teacher making grammatical or syntactical
>>mistakes, before they moved me into an A.P. college-level
>>class…And no, I’m not conceited, either..but I do enjoy debate!
>>Everyone has certain qualities at which they excel, and others at
>>which they are deficient. I make up for my skill in English by
>>being a retard in math! Plus, I couldn’t be that smart or I
>>wouldn’t be here, looking for a way out of the hell-hole I dug for
>>myself….and despite having a really shitty childhood, I take
>>complete responsibility for my current position in
>>life……………………………….Wishing you the best in
>>all…….Alan.
>>
>>
>>
>>  ——–
>>From: “Ann B. Mullikin” <think@francomm.com>
>>Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
>>To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
>>Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Opiate effects
>>Date: Sat, 1 Apr 2006 10:04:20 -0500
>>
>>  No, I am not Nick but…..
>>
>>  Bravo, Alan.  I surely do appreciate the way you use your brain –
>>TO THINK AND TO REASON.  Its good stuff.  Keep on.
>>
>>ann
>>think@francomm.com
>>
>>  —– Original Message —–
>>From: Alan Hehe
>>To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
>>Sent: Friday, March 31, 2006 4:49 PM
>>Subject: [Ibogaine] Opiate effects
>>
>>
>>    Hey Nick,
>>
>>     I wanted to say that, although I was basically right, I
>>believe (and according to the research I’ve done) about the reason
>>opiates cause pleasure, I wasn’t entirely correct about the natural
>>opiates (dopamine,etc) having an effect on mood. They do have an
>>affect on mood..but then again, so does euphoria..in fact, it could
>>be said to be a mood unto itself. Here’s a little medical info for:
>>Opiates (heroin, morphine, etc.)
>>
>>  The human body naturally produces its own opiate-like substances
>>and uses them as neurotransmitters. These substances include
>>endorphins, enkephalins, and dynorphin, often collectively known as
>>endogenous opioids. Endogenous opioids modulate our reactions to
>>painful stimuli. They also regulate vital functions such as hunger
>>and thirst and are involved in mood control, immune response, and
>>other processes.
>>
>>The reason that opiates such as heroin and morphine affect us so
>>powerfully is that these exogenous substances bind to the same
>>receptors as our endogenous opioids. There are three kinds of
>>receptors widely distributed throughout the brain: mu, delta, and
>>kappa receptors.
>>
>>These receptors, through second messengers, influence the
>>likelihood that ion channels will open, which in certain cases
>>reduces the excitability of neurons. This reduced excitability is
>>the likely source of the euphoric effect of opiates and appears to
>>be mediated by the mu and delta receptors.
>>
>>This euphoric effect also appears to involve another mechanism in
>>which the GABA-inhibitory interneurons of the ventral tegmental
>>area come into play. By attaching to their mu receptors, exogenous
>>opioids reduce the amount of GABA released (see animation).
>>Normally, GABA reduces the amount of dopamine released in the
>>nucleus accumbens. By inhibiting this inhibitor, the opiates
>>ultimately increase the amount of dopamine produced and the amount
>>of pleasure felt.
>>
>>Chronic consumption of opiates inhibits the production of cAMP, but
>>this inhibition is offset in the long run by other cAMP production
>>mechanisms. When no opiates are available, this increased cAMP
>>production capacity comes to the fore and results in neural
>>hyperactivity and the sensation of craving the drug.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>——–
>>  Make FREE PC-to-PC calls with MSN Messenger. Get it now!
>>/]=———————————————————————=
>>[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands:
>>http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
>>\]=———————————————————————=
>>[/
>>
>>
>>——–
>>  Find just what you’re after with the new, more precise MSN Search
>>- try it now!
>>/]=———————————————————————=
>>[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands:
>>http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
>>\]=———————————————————————=
>>[/
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>/]=———————————————————————=[\
>>[%] Ibogaine List Commands:
>>http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
>>
>>\]=———————————————————————=[/
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>Be one of the first to try Windows Live Mail
>/]=———————————————————————=[\
>[%] Ibogaine List Commands:
>http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
>\]=———————————————————————=[/
>
>
>
>
>/]=———————————————————————=[\
>[%] Ibogaine List Commands:
>http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
>
>\]=———————————————————————=[/
>
>

See if you’ve won, play MSN Search and Win /]=———————————————————————=[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%] \]=———————————————————————=[/

From: “Alan Hehe” <a.h.veil68@hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] (OT) Re: [Ibogaine] Opiate effects
Date: April 4, 2006 at 3:12:25 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hey Preston–
I was reading your bio in E.t.y.k.i.w. and noticed that YOU are a muscian as well! What do you play? And was “steady beat on the drugs” intentional, or a slip? In any case, thank you–it gave me a much-needed laugh!

From:  “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Reply-To:  ibogaine@mindvox.com
To:  <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Subject:  [Ibogaine] (OT) Re: [Ibogaine] Opiate effects
Date:  Sun, 2 Apr 2006 20:51:06 -0400
>BTW all, Randy is one hell of a musician, can rip on a harmonica,
>not to mention keep  asteady beat on the drugs, and can sing a mean
>blues tune.
>He rocks in other words.
>;-))
>—–
>”If God dropped acid, would he see people?”  ~Steven Wright
>
>Peace, love and lotsof respect.
>Preston Peet
>ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
>Editor Underground- the Disinformation Guide to Ancient
>Civilizations, Astonishing Archaeology and Hidden History
>Editor Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs
>Editor http://www.drugwar.com
>Columnist HighTimes mag/.com
>Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
>Columnist New York Waste
>Etc.
>
>—– Original Message —– From: <biscuitboy714@aol.com>
>To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
>Sent: Sunday, April 02, 2006 11:05 AM
>Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Opiate effects
>
>
>Yea Ann, tell us how much heroin you shot last night. He He I
>couldn’t
>help it. I love you Mamma           Randy
>
>—–Original Message—–
>From: Alan Hehe <a.h.veil68@hotmail.com>
>To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
>Sent: Sat, 01 Apr 2006 11:15:03 -0500
>Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Opiate effects
>
>   Hey Ann,
>
>  Thank you for the compliment…Somebody’s got to try to counter
>his
>crazy ideas with some sense. Feel free to write me anytime..I really
>enjoy talking to people on this list and hearing their stories…Oh,
>don’t tell anyone, but I studied semantics and debate in high
>school! Just kidding…about the hush hush, as anyone will be able
>to
>read this. Oh, heck–LOL! I’m 37, and High school is but a distant,
>mainly unplesant experience…except when I would catch my English
>teacher making grammatical or syntactical mistakes, before they
>moved
>me into an A.P. college-level class…And no, I’m not conceited,
>either..but I do enjoy debate! Everyone has certain qualities at
>which
>they excel, and others at which they are deficient. I make up for my
>skill in English by being a retard in math! Plus, I couldn’t be that
>smart or I wouldn’t be here, looking for a way out of the hell-hole
>I
>dug for myself….and despite having a really shitty childhood, I
>take
>complete responsibility for my current position in
>life……………………………….Wishing you the best in
>all…….Alan.
>
>
>
>  ——–
>From: “Ann B. Mullikin” <think@francomm.com>
>Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
>To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
>Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Opiate effects
>Date: Sat, 1 Apr 2006 10:04:20 -0500
>
>  No, I am not Nick but…..
>
>  Bravo, Alan. I surely do appreciate the way you use your brain –
>TO
>THINK AND TO REASON. Its good stuff. Keep on.
>
>ann
>think@francomm.com
>
>  —– Original Message —–
>From: Alan Hehe
>To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
>Sent: Friday, March 31, 2006 4:49 PM
>Subject: [Ibogaine] Opiate effects
>
>
>  Hey Nick,
>
>  I wanted to say that, although I was basically right, I believe
>(and according to the research I’ve done) about the reason opiates
>cause pleasure, I wasn’t entirely correct about the natural opiates
>(dopamine,etc) having an effect on mood. They do have an affect on
>mood..but then again, so does euphoria..in fact, it could be said to
>be
>a mood unto itself. Here’s a little medical info for: Opiates
>(heroin,
>morphine, etc.)
>
>  The human body naturally produces its own opiate-like substances
>and
>uses them as neurotransmitters. These substances include endorphins,
>enkephalins, and dynorphin, often collectively known as endogenous
>opioids. Endogenous opioids modulate our reactions to painful
>stimuli.
>They also regulate vital functions such as hunger and thirst and are
>involved in mood control, immune response, and other processes.
>
>The reason that opiates such as heroin and morphine affect us so
>powerfully is that these exogenous substances bind to the same
>receptors as our endogenous opioids. There are three kinds of
>receptors
>widely distributed throughout the brain: mu, delta, and kappa
>receptors.
>
>These receptors, through second messengers, influence the likelihood
>that ion channels will open, which in certain cases reduces the
>excitability of neurons. This reduced excitability is the likely
>source
>of the euphoric effect of opiates and appears to be mediated by the
>mu
>and delta receptors.
>
>This euphoric effect also appears to involve another mechanism in
>which
>the GABA-inhibitory interneurons of the ventral tegmental area come
>into play. By attaching to their mu receptors, exogenous opioids
>reduce
>the amount of GABA released (see animation). Normally, GABA reduces
>the
>amount of dopamine released in the nucleus accumbens. By inhibiting
>this inhibitor, the opiates ultimately increase the amount of
>dopamine
>produced and the amount of pleasure felt.
>
>Chronic consumption of opiates inhibits the production of cAMP, but
>this inhibition is offset in the long run by other cAMP production
>mechanisms. When no opiates are available, this increased cAMP
>production capacity comes to the fore and results in neural
>hyperactivity and the sensation of craving the drug.
>
>
>
>
>——–
>  Make FREE PC-to-PC calls with MSN Messenger. Get it now!
>/]=———————————————————————=
>[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands:
>http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
>\]=———————————————————————=
>[/
>
>
>——–
>  Find just what you’re after with the new, more precise MSN Search
>-
>try it now!
>/]=———————————————————————=
>[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands:
>http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
>\]=———————————————————————=
>[/
>
>
>
>
>/]=———————————————————————=[\
>[%] Ibogaine List Commands:
>http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
>
>\]=———————————————————————=[/
>
>
>
>/]=———————————————————————=[\
>[%] Ibogaine List Commands:
>http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
>
>\]=———————————————————————=[/
>
>

Save time by starting a search from any Web page with the MSN Search Toolbar-FREE! /]=———————————————————————=[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%] \]=———————————————————————=[/

From: “Alan Hehe” <a.h.veil68@hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] re–low blows For Allan Even Lower Now
Date: April 4, 2006 at 3:08:59 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

No, you mustn’t be able to read THAT well, cause it wasn’t me who said someone took something I said and turned it around…It was Nick who said he didn’t say what he did say, and said I turned it around…But unfortunately for him, I found the e-mail, and you can read his own words, which said exactly what I said they said–if you can follow that. I don’t love cows in particular–I love all animals, and feel sorry for the ones that are treated so cruelly because some people believe they are JUST MEAT. You don’t know that, any more than you know what A foetus is feeling.

From:  “Billy J” <billjohnson6@sympatico.ca>
Reply-To:  ibogaine@mindvox.com
To:  ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject:  RE: [Ibogaine] re–low blows For Allan Even Lower Now
Date:  Tue, 04 Apr 2006 02:56:19 -0400
>  I really am going to sleep now so I can try to work tomorrow, BUT
>Allan, you are being a hippo.
>I can read you know, I am even helping my daughter learn-(although
>her Mother is better, because she’s aWoman Ha!)
>So Allan, you should be able to find my last message that you
>commented on and I also read the message that you said so and so
>took what you said and turned it around and made it out to suit
>their fancy?? or something like that, Maybe you are tired too. But
>check out how you were able to take my belief in Pro-Choice and turn
>it around to say to someone that “Bily Boy or whatever his name
>is”Quote, You Said that I said I didn’t believe in pro-choice- Now
>are your going to do what you wanted Nick to due- Admit that you
>$^%$9 up and mothed off just to make your own point stronger?
>You Can quote this my friend– I believe in the Birth the death-and
>the ressurection of Jesus Christ-
>and you know what else- yes you guessd it FREE WILL-
>and you know what you have every right  —   to be   —  WRONG! So
>there-
>Seriously though, I heard my childs heart beat at approximately
>4-6weeks, something like that and when I had my first son 25 years
>ago, I had though about abortion, I was 17 she was 19, we were not a
>good couple- everything was not right (In My EYES)
>Today Allan I have 2 grandchildren- and yes, I have went full circle
>a couple of times, Clean,Drug addict,clean.drugs- Its sick,
>But I have 2 kids at home-2 married boys and 2 grandkids thatr would
>never had been had I not went against popular Opinion,
>     So please tell me from what experience and or education due you
>voice your opinion?
>I am sorry if I offend you , well no I am not really, But I cannot
>make babys, all I can do is donate some seed to be planted, I cannot
>even water that seed until 9 months have past, so I figure I due not
>nor did my wife make then grow, so I should not be a God that
>Believes I have the power over life or death of a human being.
>Now if you still believe that you and a cow are equal , well thats
>your business, I’ll still EAT Them,
>Even Betsy the Cow or brutus or whatever name you have for the
>family pet.
>
>Love ya Allan and I do not think that you should let a person walk
>off a cliff either, That is the same as letting your friend drive
>drunk, and then say O he said he was OK and its his right, Sorry
>about your Mom getting run over.
>
>Comprimise will take all of us to a miserable grave and we will
>wonder what Happened,
>Eh any free needles, Herione, lets stay off the street.
>
>By and  by  Wow
>
>—-Original Message Follows—-
>From: “Alan Hehe” <a.h.veil68@hotmail.com>
>Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
>To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
>Subject: [Ibogaine] re–low blows
>Date: Tue, 04 Apr 2006 02:02:23 -0400
>MIME-Version: 1.0
>Received: from tomts39-srv.bellnexxia.net ([209.226.175.96]) by
>bay0-pamc1-f11.bay0.hotmail.com with Microsoft
>SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Mon, 3 Apr 2006 23:03:11 -0700
>Received: from toip5.bellnexxia.net ([209.226.175.88])          by
>tomts39-srv.bellnexxia.net          (InterMail vM.5.01.06.10
>201-253-122-130-110-20040306) with ESMTP          id
><20060404060311.TFWH11764.tomts39-srv.bellnexxia.net@toip5.bellnexxia.net>
>          for <billjohnson6@sympatico.ca>; Tue, 4 Apr 2006 02:03:11
>-0400
>Received: from tanelorn.mindvox.com (HELO mail.mindvox.com)
>([64.124.179.118])  by toip5.bellnexxia.net with ESMTP; 04 Apr 2006
>02:03:07 -0400
>Received: (qmail 24931 invoked by uid 513); 4 Apr 2006 02:03:04
>-0400
>Received: (qmail 24925 invoked by uid 514); 4 Apr 2006 02:03:04
>-0400
>X-Message-Info: moY6YVwXQ453YA+uYTuaB20GXd1g7S7KxqnsXB2ZDU4=
>Mailing-List: contact ibogaine-help@mindvox.com; run by ezmlm
>Precedence: bulk
>X-No-Archive: yes
>List-Post: <mailto:ibogaine@mindvox.com>
>List-Help: <mailto:ibogaine-help@mindvox.com>
>List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:ibogaine-unsubscribe@mindvox.com>
>List-Subscribe: <mailto:ibogaine-subscribe@mindvox.com>
>Delivered-To: mailing list ibogaine@mindvox.com
>X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.3 required=4.0
>X-Antivirus-MYDOMAIN-Mail-From: a.h.veil68@hotmail.com via
>tanelorn.mindvox.com
>X-Antivirus-MYDOMAIN: 1.25-st-qms
>(Clear:RC:0(65.54.224.30):SA:0(-2.3/4.0):. Processed in 6.324956
>secs Process 24813)
>Return-Path:
>ibogaine-return-23287-billjohnson6=sympatico.ca@mindvox.com
>X-OriginalArrivalTime: 04 Apr 2006 06:03:11.0866 (UTC)
>FILETIME=[744ADDA0:01C657AD]
>
>
>  Hey Kirsty,
>
>   The way things are flowing–or not–on this list, it’s hard to
>tell the sequence of things…I mean, I told Nick that I didn’t wish
>to comunicate with him any more, and said “we’ll have to agree to
>disagree” but then he comes back and says “I never said only people
>who have alot of feeling they need to repress experience bliss from
>opiates..”  And he said I was being manipulative and could foresee a
>future in politics for me. At first I thought I had lost the email,
>where I had copied and pasted his very words, but then I found
>it…did you read that stuff? That guy really is incorigable…no
>matter how obvious it is, he can’t admit he simply made a mistake!
>
>    But as far as PP goes, I think he wrote that quite a bit
>ago…and he’s pretty tame compared to what I’ve written…in fact,
>I just got through making another friend, Billy Boy, or whatever his
>name is, who wrote that he didn’t believe in pro-choice, something I
>feel VERY strongly about…I mean, I don’t like abortion, but no-one
>should be forced to do or forbidden to do anything, I believe..now,
>I don’t believe in murder, but I think calling abortion murder is as
>much of a misnomer and political manipulation as it is a euphemism
>to call it ‘early termination”  People think humans are just soooo
>special, but most of them have no problem with torturing of animals
>for meat, or bombing the shit out of other countries for dubious
>reasons…Anyway, I don’t believe in death, so I don’t view abortion
>as this TERRIBLE thing…
>
>           But maybe I should just stop being mean–or saying what I
>mean..and go read a book. To quote Foetus (an underground, truly
>alternative industrial rock/jazz fusion/experiemntal
>(unclassifiable) artist sang: ” Saya whatcha mean, and say it mean!”
>
>                                                   peace, love, and
>FREEDOM
>
>                                         Everything is permitted!
>Alan.
>
>
>
>
>From: Kirk <captkirk@clear.net.nz>
>Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
>To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
>Subject: [Ibogaine] Re: slipper pix
>Date: Mon, 03 Apr 2006 19:46:57 +1200
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>Preston wrote:-Anyway, hope everyone is having a good Sunday and not
>overtaxing themselves with worry, stress or the absolute
>weirdness about how some folk seem to think “abusive” language and
>behavior and “therapeutic” can, logically, fit together in any sane,
>rational treatment of addicts and drug abusers.
>
>
>
>That was a bit of a low blow wasn’t it?  I think we’ve all
>established the agree to disagree  feud going on here….. but
>shouldn’t you stick to debate instead of random digs in emails to
>the whole list?
>
>Got a lot of time for you PP, but come on……enough is enough…..
>
>With respect for all, on the road to better health, happiness and
>abundance.
>
>Koiky xxx
>
>  With MSN Spaces email straight to your blog. Upload jokes, photos
>and more. It’s free!
>
>
>
>
>/]=———————————————————————=[\
>  [%] Ibogaine List Commands:
>http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
>
>\]=———————————————————————=[/
>
>
>
>
>
>/]=———————————————————————=[\
>[%] Ibogaine List Commands:
>http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
>
>\]=———————————————————————=[/
>
>

See if you’ve won, play MSN Search and Win /]=———————————————————————=[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%] \]=———————————————————————=[/

From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] (OT) Re: [Ibogaine] Opiate effects
Date: April 2, 2006 at 8:51:06 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

BTW all, Randy is one hell of a musician, can rip on a harmonica, not to mention keep  asteady beat on the drugs, and can sing a mean blues tune.
He rocks in other words.
;-))
—–
“If God dropped acid, would he see people?”  ~Steven Wright

Peace, love and lotsof respect.
Preston Peet
ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor Underground- the Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations, Astonishing Archaeology and Hidden History
Editor Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Columnist HighTimes mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —– From: <biscuitboy714@aol.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Sunday, April 02, 2006 11:05 AM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Opiate effects

Yea Ann, tell us how much heroin you shot last night. He He I couldn’t
help it. I love you Mamma           Randy

—–Original Message—–
From: Alan Hehe <a.h.veil68@hotmail.com>
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Sat, 01 Apr 2006 11:15:03 -0500
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Opiate effects

Hey Ann,

Thank you for the compliment…Somebody’s got to try to counter his
crazy ideas with some sense. Feel free to write me anytime..I really
enjoy talking to people on this list and hearing their stories…Oh,
don’t tell anyone, but I studied semantics and debate in high
school! Just kidding…about the hush hush, as anyone will be able to
read this. Oh, heck–LOL! I’m 37, and High school is but a distant,
mainly unplesant experience…except when I would catch my English
teacher making grammatical or syntactical mistakes, before they moved
me into an A.P. college-level class…And no, I’m not conceited,
either..but I do enjoy debate! Everyone has certain qualities at which
they excel, and others at which they are deficient. I make up for my
skill in English by being a retard in math! Plus, I couldn’t be that
smart or I wouldn’t be here, looking for a way out of the hell-hole I
dug for myself….and despite having a really shitty childhood, I take
complete responsibility for my current position in
life……………………………….Wishing you the best in
all…….Alan.

——–
From: “Ann B. Mullikin” <think@francomm.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Opiate effects
Date: Sat, 1 Apr 2006 10:04:20 -0500

No, I am not Nick but…..

Bravo, Alan. I surely do appreciate the way you use your brain – TO
THINK AND TO REASON. Its good stuff. Keep on.

ann
think@francomm.com

—– Original Message —–
From: Alan Hehe
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Friday, March 31, 2006 4:49 PM
Subject: [Ibogaine] Opiate effects

Hey Nick,

I wanted to say that, although I was basically right, I believe
(and according to the research I’ve done) about the reason opiates
cause pleasure, I wasn’t entirely correct about the natural opiates
(dopamine,etc) having an effect on mood. They do have an affect on
mood..but then again, so does euphoria..in fact, it could be said to be
a mood unto itself. Here’s a little medical info for: Opiates (heroin,
morphine, etc.)

The human body naturally produces its own opiate-like substances and
uses them as neurotransmitters. These substances include endorphins,
enkephalins, and dynorphin, often collectively known as endogenous
opioids. Endogenous opioids modulate our reactions to painful stimuli.
They also regulate vital functions such as hunger and thirst and are
involved in mood control, immune response, and other processes.

The reason that opiates such as heroin and morphine affect us so
powerfully is that these exogenous substances bind to the same
receptors as our endogenous opioids. There are three kinds of receptors
widely distributed throughout the brain: mu, delta, and kappa
receptors.

These receptors, through second messengers, influence the likelihood
that ion channels will open, which in certain cases reduces the
excitability of neurons. This reduced excitability is the likely source
of the euphoric effect of opiates and appears to be mediated by the mu
and delta receptors.

This euphoric effect also appears to involve another mechanism in which
the GABA-inhibitory interneurons of the ventral tegmental area come
into play. By attaching to their mu receptors, exogenous opioids reduce
the amount of GABA released (see animation). Normally, GABA reduces the
amount of dopamine released in the nucleus accumbens. By inhibiting
this inhibitor, the opiates ultimately increase the amount of dopamine
produced and the amount of pleasure felt.

Chronic consumption of opiates inhibits the production of cAMP, but
this inhibition is offset in the long run by other cAMP production
mechanisms. When no opiates are available, this increased cAMP
production capacity comes to the fore and results in neural
hyperactivity and the sensation of craving the drug.

——–
Make FREE PC-to-PC calls with MSN Messenger. Get it now!
/]=———————————————————————=
[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands:
http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=
[/

——–
Find just what you’re after with the new, more precise MSN Search –
try it now!
/]=———————————————————————=
[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands:
http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=
[/

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: “Alan Hehe” <a.h.veil68@hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Whats a Republican?
Date: April 4, 2006 at 3:00:11 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Don’t call me Baby…well, you can…since you’re not close enough for me to do anything about it! Plus, that’s a freedom, too…Just like my ability to talk about pro-choice. As for your information, no, I don’t think the way the abortion system is set up–but I absolutely believe in having the right…And no, you don’t have 9 months to decide whether to have the rug rat or not–there is a cut-off, a limit to when abortions can be performed.
And so you think, because cows aren’t pets, or aren’t ‘cute’, then it’s okay to torture them? And to cut the balls of bulls off without any anesthetic? To make chickens live in a cage so small they can barely turn around? And George Bush–wanting to save lives! LOL! That’s the biggest joke I’ve ever heard! But it figures; you’re not special..alot of the people in this country are brain-washed by the constant disinformation they are fed….Why do you think there are a hundred commercials warning of the dangers of marijuana, one of the least harmful drugs known to man, but yet maybe one out of those hundred about the truly dangerous drugs, like H or Coke?
And you don’t have to be a hindu to have compassion for animals other than cats and dogs, you dumb-ass red-neck! In some places they eat dogs…would that be okay if they ate your dog? You know, I’m totally wasting my time talking to you, I can already tell that you are way undereducated, extremely prejudiced. Cows are just food. Are blacks just niggers, too? God, I can’t stand fuckin’ red-necks like you, especially the ones that actually think they’re smart. Once you start doing away with freedoms, it’s all down-hill. Who’s going to decide what’s right and wrong? You?! I would happily put a hollow-point 45 shell into my head if that possibility existed..of course G.W.B. is quite the redneck himself, which is why you probably like him. First of all, HE’s not fighting for anything. I have respect for the soldiers; they don’t decide the mission, they just do what they’re told. And how many babies do you think die while we were waging a war we were totally lied to about? Or is that okay? You think the babies over there even know what a terrorist is? This world is already over-populated..if people like you ran things, the world would run out of resources within a decade! The oh so precious children! Everyone starts out as a child..some people, like you, remain one, in their minds, their whole life. But those sweet children often grow up to be killers and rapists, and often for no apparent reason!  Strong belief does only one thing: close your mind. Boy, that ibogaine is gonna have fun with you!!!!! Cows are just food! Well, we’re just food, too…if a grizzly decides you look good! God, what egotism!  You claim to be a Christian (I do not) but you must have misssed the part about not judging lest you be judged yourself…And I bet ibo’s gonna drive that one home with a psychoactive sledgehammer! You’ve got your response, but I really no longer wish to talk with you. I’ve spent too much time arguing with all the fascists on this list, instead of hanging out with the cool, in the know ,people: by that meaning knowing that the whole Govt. is totally corrupt, actually controlled by a few wealthy and extremely powerful people, and they constantly just feed us disinformation, while manipulating the world through economic control, etc, and alot of other things you wouldn’t understand. BYE< NOW, Billy BOY. Go get a burger!

From:  “Billy J” <billjohnson6@sympatico.ca>
Reply-To:  ibogaine@mindvox.com
To:  ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject:  RE: [Ibogaine] Whats a Republican?
Date:  Tue, 04 Apr 2006 02:19:25 -0400
>Hear this peace and take it to your Heart FRIEND.
>1st if we go back to Killing kids for the sins of their fathers
>(Child of a Rapist) Do you think that is more civilized then Raising
>Cattle for food,(Cattle are food “not Pets”) although you may be
>from India or somewhere that they worship your cows and even there
>fecal matter I hear! Now if your are at that junkger(Place) then I
>will have to say -well Al, Bless you, but when was the last time you
>had your precious cow go to war for YOUR FREEDOMS that I am sure you
>are enjoying- Yes?
>   Allan , do you really love cows (the 4 legged ones that is) or
>are you in your 2nd or 3rd reincarnation and you where once a cow
>and you have come into this wierd mooing stage and you just could
>not figure it out.
>  Ok That is sarcasm – Sorry< I’ll get serious.
>Oh Ya Your aborting a fetus-, and yes I know that in the USof A
>being the most civilized Nation that has usually voted anti-
>Christian ( just in case somebody didn’t let Everybody do what FEELs
>GOOD)
>Ya you can Have sex with anybody you want and then if a girl gets
>pregnant, or do you call it fetus something, oh well  so shes
>pregnant you have 9 months to decide whether or not you what the
>little BLOB Because your fetus can be kicking up a storm and as long
>as you can keep its stupid( oh it,s brain isn’t functioning yet
>,right) well as long as you can keep its head inside the grown up
>fetus ( that would be the female, The pregnant one, knocked up one ,
>dumb one what ever you would call someone like that ( Maybe MOM)
>well just reach in and CRUSH ITS SCULL and or STICK A SYRINGE INTO
>THe Back of it HEAD JUST UNTIL ITS STOPS PUTTINGN UP A FIGHT, AND
>they do fight Allan, just go and ask your abortion doctor.– PARTIAL
>BIRTH ABORTION– VERY NICE–
>  oH YA AND YOU KNOW WHAT ALLY BABY THAT STUPID WAR MOGER THAT YOU
>HAVE AS A PRESIDENT WOULD LIKE NOTHING MORE THAN TO SAVE PEOPLE BUT
>ALL YOU PEOPLE THAT GOD GAVE YOU FREE CHOICE HAVE DECIDED TO VOTE
>FOR THE REAL KILLERS-
>   Have you any clue how many of your fetuses are done away with
>each year in the USA alone,, Allan Baby– way way more in 1 year
>than have been killed in ALL the World wars— How many do you think
>are rape and how many are just another form of birth control,, Your
>Planned Parenthood is a multi-Billion dollar industry that fights
>for you to have the freedom to get rid of your Babies- But They do
>not do it for free– They are rich.One more thing if we can justify
>killing because you THINK they don’t feel pain- Why not line up all
>us addicts right after a good whack and while we are feeling no pain
>BANG-
>Save a lot of tax dollars- The Meth Clinics would be Pissed though.
>
>Love Ya!
>
>Just Don’t say it is OK To Kill My Children- Or Yours
>
>B
>
>—-Original Message Follows—-
>From: “Alan Hehe” <a.h.veil68@hotmail.com>
>Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
>To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
>Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] RE: [Pornography,psychology,Choice,force,) 2
>cents
>Date: Tue, 04 Apr 2006 01:25:21 -0400
>MIME-Version: 1.0
>Received: from tomts30-srv.bellnexxia.net ([209.226.175.104]) by
>bay0-pamc1-f3.bay0.hotmail.com with Microsoft
>SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Mon, 3 Apr 2006 22:27:22 -0700
>Received: from toip4.bellnexxia.net ([209.226.175.87])          by
>tomts30-srv.bellnexxia.net          (InterMail vM.5.01.06.13
>201-253-122-130-113-20050324) with ESMTP          id
><20060404052721.IXFI18550.tomts30-srv.bellnexxia.net@toip4.bellnexxia.net>
>          for <billjohnson6@sympatico.ca>; Tue, 4 Apr 2006 01:27:21
>-0400
>Received: from tanelorn.mindvox.com (HELO mail.mindvox.com)
>([64.124.179.118])  by toip4.bellnexxia.net with ESMTP; 04 Apr 2006
>01:27:16 -0400
>Received: (qmail 1073 invoked by uid 513); 4 Apr 2006 01:27:15 -0400
>Received: (qmail 1067 invoked by uid 514); 4 Apr 2006 01:27:15 -0400
>X-Message-Info: moY6YVwXQ46hfM+PXD+r03SFMVOY3E1daJYU/Sm1Nkw=
>Mailing-List: contact ibogaine-help@mindvox.com; run by ezmlm
>Precedence: bulk
>X-No-Archive: yes
>List-Post: <mailto:ibogaine@mindvox.com>
>List-Help: <mailto:ibogaine-help@mindvox.com>
>List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:ibogaine-unsubscribe@mindvox.com>
>List-Subscribe: <mailto:ibogaine-subscribe@mindvox.com>
>Delivered-To: mailing list ibogaine@mindvox.com
>X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.1 required=4.0
>X-Antivirus-MYDOMAIN-Mail-From: a.h.veil68@hotmail.com via
>tanelorn.mindvox.com
>X-Antivirus-MYDOMAIN: 1.25-st-qms
>(Clear:RC:0(65.54.224.26):SA:0(-2.1/4.0):. Processed in 8.08646 secs
>Process 1055)
>Return-Path:
>ibogaine-return-23280-billjohnson6=sympatico.ca@mindvox.com
>X-OriginalArrivalTime: 04 Apr 2006 05:27:22.0868 (UTC)
>FILETIME=[7363CB40:01C657A8]
>
>
>
>   I gotta take a piece of this one. Okay, Mr. Anti-choice, let me
>ask you this: do you eat meat? If not, then good for you. If so,
>have you ever though about the actual, truly painful, totally
>inhumane treatment we put animals through? And usually don’t think
>twice about it…It’s people like George Bush who make me wish
>sometimes that God would hurl an asteroid at us! It’s “God forbid
>one human foetus (who does not feel a thing if the abortion is done
>in a timely manner, according to the latest research, because their
>nervous system isn’t nearly fully developed) should perish, no
>matter if it was caused by a rape or is probably going to be born
>into alot of suffering–but while I’m on my high horse, cut me a
>piece o that cow off and cook it up! It’s sheer egotism that we
>believe that humans are so damned
>important, but it’s okay if we torture animals, ruin the planet, and
>make other people adhere to our beliefs!!! We’re not that important!
>And if you believe in a God and the soul, then you know that–if the
>foetus even has a soul yet, which I don’t believe it does..I believe
>the soul enters with the first breath, and leaves with the
>last–that baby is just going back into the arms of God! There is no
>death! And since they don’t experience pain, all it becomes is
>something for people like you to feel self righteous about!
>Personally, I think everyone should smoke pot, and would benefit
>from it (except for a few cases), but how would you like it if I
>MADE you smoke it? That is, if you don’t, and don’t like it. Or
>let’s say you eat meat, but I think it’s just as evil to do that as
>to allow abortions, so I outlawed meat–would that be okay with you?
>And the cliff analogy is just stupid–not
>the same thing at all. But yes, I think if a person is truly
>miserable, and wants to die, I would try to talk them out of it, but
>I would never stop them by force. That’s called LACK OF FREEDOM. And
>if we didn’t make mistakes, how would we ever learn? To be told
>something is wrong is one thing..you can tell a person, fire will
>burn you..but until they get burned, they will not truly understand,
>and that’s what life is all about–learning. No, I don’t like to see
>foetus’ abortions–I think prevention is the answer….But
>sometimes, I believe it is ‘the best choice’. If everyone like you
>had their way, there really would be NO ROOM AT ALL left!!! We’re
>already sooo over-populated! It’s like I heard some character say in
>a movie recently..”everybody’s kids are so special…it makes you
>wonder where all the normal adults come from”. Even God believes in
>freedom of choice! That’s why he gave
>us FREE WILL. You’re a Republican, aren’t you? And you probably
>think that war-mongering asshole of a President is the best-thing
>since sliced bread, eh? It’s okay to kill, as long as it’s not a
>precious child…even though that child may grow up to be The Son of
>Sam!  well…”take me by the ham, no good, no evil, no give a
>damn!”  And the Govt. is lying to you! About just about everything.
>Peace, love, and freedom. Life is too mysterious to take it so
>serious!
>
>
>
>
>
>
>From:  “Billy J” <billjohnson6@sympatico.ca>
>Reply-To:  ibogaine@mindvox.com
>To:  ibogaine@mindvox.com
>Subject:  [Ibogaine] RE: [Pornography,psychology,Choice,force,) 2
>cents
>Date:  Sun, 02 Apr 2006 21:45:39 -0400
> >Well It sounds like this place is really mixing it up so I would
> >like to add a little REALITY TO YOU PRO CHOICERS, I am sure glad I
> >was not an abortion’ althought I have had my moments.
> >Yes My Mom was a young Mom and if she had a choice I think that I
> >would have no Grandkids, or be babbleing on here.
> >     I too have an attitude, It is about the only thing in this
> >world that I really have control over.
> >Tiger– How well did you do with making ALL your own Choices,
> >Instead of doing
>what your were told to do? Not meant to be a shot
> >at you personally, but I am with the Right or Wrong crowd- No such
> >thing as grey.
> >   I do know that some people may have grown up believing that
>wrong
> >was right and right was wrong, but I Think that I pretty much knew
> >when I was stepping out of line and doing wrong.
> >It is (as most believe) My God , no not God, but My worldly given
> >Right- to do wrong- It’s my life and if I want to screw it up then
> >stay out of my way. And you know what I had a lot of sooo called
> >friends that did just that WATCHED, AS i WAS Killing myself and
> >ruining a lot of lifes.
> >But O O O never no no no neverdare step on somebodys toes because
> >you know what they have a choice, Just like those poor little
>Crack
> >%$^&%$ Women that degrade themselves( and me
>myself) due to
> >everybody. But Never No No Never dare tell somebody or force
>someone
> >to get some help that they may never ever make it to on their own,
> >due to something called “Pride” “Shame” “Guilt”
> >Whatever holds them back. They may end up DEAD and it would be
>their
> >own fault, because you know how STRONG us druggies are, and if
>that
> >person dies because he had a choice to get help and refused or
>just
> >couldn’t make it on his/her own and needed YOU (of course they
> >didn’t tell you that).
> >I am sorry but I BELIEVE that if you Love Someone or even care a
> >little, and you see them walking off a cliff and YOU have an
> >opportunity to stop them, and you don’t- Can you truelly say it
>was
> >their own fault?
> >Pornography- I never met too many Normal people that would find it
> >neccesary to take their
>cloths off for the public to see. Totally
> >wrong and if you had your own kids you might not think it too cool
> >having your buddy beating off while checking out your little girl.
> >Not nice eh Billy but P–sy T-ts are not meant for anyone except
>who
> >they belong to and their mate.
> >
> >Bye For Now, That stuff is about the biggest trigger going for any
> >downfall
> >
> >Bill
> >—-Original Message Follows—-
> >From: “Nick Sandberg” <nick227@tiscali.co.uk>
> >Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
> >To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
> >Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Opiates
> >Date: Sun, 2 Apr 2006 10:24:07 +0100
> >MIME-Version: 1.0
> >Received: from tomts21-srv.bellnexxia.net ([209.226.175.183]) by
> >bay0-pamc1-f11.bay0.hotmail.com with Microsoft
> >SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Sun, 2 Apr 2006 05:38:59
>-0700
> >Received: from toip5.bellnexxia.net ([209.226.175.88])          by
> >tomts21-srv.bellnexxia.net          (InterMail vM.5.01.06.13
> >201-253-122-130-113-20050324) with ESMTP          id
> ><20060402123858.HZPV14030.tomts21-srv.bellnexxia.net@toip5.bellnexxia.net>
> >          for <billjohnson6@sympatico.ca>; Sun, 2 Apr 2006
>08:38:58
> >-0400
> >Received: from tanelorn.mindvox.com (HELO mail.mindvox.com)
> >([64.124.179.118])  by toip5.bellnexxia.net with ESMTP; 02 Apr
>2006
> >08:38:58 -0400
> >Received: (qmail 16967 invoked by uid 513); 2 Apr 2006 08:38:55
> >-0400
> >Received: (qmail 16961 invoked by uid
>514); 2 Apr 2006 08:38:55
> >-0400
> >X-Message-Info: moY6YVwXQ44WAJnUvaOEtK2hXKGagKAsshDbZwj7pSc=
> >Mailing-List: contact ibogaine-help@mindvox.com; run by ezmlm
> >Precedence: bulk
> >X-No-Archive: yes
> >List-Post: <mailto:ibogaine@mindvox.com>
> >List-Help: <mailto:ibogaine-help@mindvox.com>
> >List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:ibogaine-unsubscribe@mindvox.com>
> >List-Subscribe: <mailto:ibogaine-subscribe@mindvox.com>
> >Delivered-To: mailing list ibogaine@mindvox.com
> >X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.3 required=4.0
> >X-Antivirus-MYDOMAIN-Mail-From: nick227@tiscali.co.uk via
> >tanelorn.mindvox.com
> >X-Antivirus-MYDOMAIN: 1.25-st-qms
> >(Clear:RC:0(212.74.114.37):SA:0(-2.3/4.0):. Processed in 2.781926
> >secs Process 16953)
> >X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true
> >X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result:
>AQAAAJ0kL0SDE4UI
> >X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.6604 (9.0.2911.0)
> >Return-Path:
> >ibogaine-return-23233-billjohnson6=sympatico.ca@mindvox.com
> >X-OriginalArrivalTime: 02 Apr 2006 12:38:59.0373 (UTC)
> >FILETIME=[6A155DD0:01C65652]
> >
> >
> >   —–Original Message—–
> >   From: Tiger Lisa [mailto:tigerlisa@gmail.com]
> >   Sent: 01 April 2006 13:44
> >   To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
> >   Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Opiates
> >
> >
> >   Dear Nick,
> >   Here’ the part I don’t understand.
> >
> >   You wrote,
> >   Personally, my position is…I think rising awareness is GOOD.
>I
> >would
> >love to see more people in groups, going through their stuff,
> >becoming more
> >aware of their
>personal interior dynamic, and moving forward in
> >life. But,
> >sadly, I’m not in a position to compel people to do this.
> >
> >   Why would you ever want to COMPEL anyone to do ANYTHING? Do you
> >really
> >believe that would be useful, effective, helpful? Do you think
> >people
> >actually benefit from, and grow from, being FORCED to do anything?
> >
> >   That is a parent-child model of interaction (and not a
> >particularly
> >skillful one, IMO), and it’s going to reinforce childlike,
> >rebellious and
> >victim behavior (NOT self-awareness!) in the one so compelled, as
> >well as
> >reinforcing bullying behavior and disprespectful and righteous
> >attitudes
> >(NOT increased compassion or awareness) in the one doing the
> >compelling. A
> >”lose-lose” interaction–no one
>wins!
> >
> >   Myself, I believe CHOICE is the name of the game. With choice
> >comes
> >responsibility, self-responsibility and a loss of the victim
> >consciousness
> >that drives continued reactive and unconscious behavior.
> >
> >   So in a nutshell: Saying something (like awarenss) is GOOD is
>one
> >thing,
> >but it’s a far cry from that to say,”And I’d love to FORCE you all
> >to be
> >more aware! too bad I can’t!” I think that is the essence of
>what
> >*I* am
> >having a problem with. Yes, awareness is good. I agree. Yes, I’d
> >love to
> >live in a more aware society, umm hmm. Then I read the next
>sentence
> >and I’m
> >brought up short.
> >
> >   We all need love, acceptance, compassion. Compassion is one of
> >the most
> >healing things
>going! Power and control, on the other hand, just get
> >people’s backs up, thrust them into dysfunctional modes of
>thinking
> >and
> >perpetuate a lack of awareness all around.
> >
> >   Just my two cents,
> >   Tiger
> >
> >   PS I bet if you took a shot of heroin, you would experience
> >bliss! (not
> >that I’m suggesting you do) I believe it is just how human beings
> >are wired.
> >We’ve all got the same neurotransmitters, more or less.
> >
> >   Hi Tiger,
> >
> >   Well, I seem to recall, from the days when I used to go to
> >conferences and
> >stuff, that studies have shown that only a small percentage of
> >school kids
> >who used heroin developed a habit. (Howard Parker in Sheffield, or
> >something
> >like that, about 1000 individuals
>studied). This is not quite the
> >same as
> >what you’re saying, I appreciate, but it shows that the drug of
> >itself is
> >not necessarily addicting. I don’t know if anyone knows what makes
>a
> >difference but I’d be willing to bet that, psychologically, it
> >relates
> >strongly to “ego orientation” vs “underlying levels of feeling.”
>If
> >you’ve
> >developed a self-image that requires you to repress more feelings
> >than the
> >endogenous opiates in your body can do, then taking heroin is
>going
> >to make
> >you feel pretty good. I would personally say that this is very
> >likely one
> >psychological mechanism behind addiction. This would explain why
>so
> >many
> >addicts do come from relatively high trauma backgrounds. For, as
> >kids, we
> >learn that to “get things” and to “be popular” we need to
>be able to
> >keep
> >our feelings a bit under control, not just likely to collapse from
> >overfeeling at any time.
> >
> >   With bliss, (or anxiety for that matter), these are
>experiential
> >things
> >and no neuroscientist can explain them beyond pointing a little at
> >things
> >that seem to be involved. What is clear is that the states are
> >relative to
> >one another. If you’re basically a happy person bliss is
>inevitably
> >less
> >attractive than if you’re an anxious person.
> >
> >   About awareness, yes, I would love to force everyone to be more
> >aware!
> >And, inevitably, it doesn’t really work like that! But that’s my
> >position
> >anyway. What to do? Yes, compassion is needed, sometimes a lot of
> >it. Also,
> >all the power and control at times. I’m not so
>busy with how I think
> >society
> >should be, or trying to like Understand the world, I just put my
> >position
> >out really. About choice, well, it seems like a great thing, for
> >sure, but
> >to me it’s a little the same as trying to push compassion at the
> >expense of
> >power. In philosophy or spirituality or whatever, some people
> >believe that
> >free will exists, others that the universe is entirely
> >deterministic. Who
> >the fuck knows? Both are cool viewpoints, and I personally
>wouldn’t
> >just
> >want to just trapped in just one of them.
> >
> >   Is it cool to allow someone you care about to carry on fucking
> >their life
> >up because you believe so much in their free will? Not for me! I
> >like to
> >have the guts to take a position. And, to be honest, it’s a little
>
> >bit what
> >I miss in this list, where half the time everyone seems to be
> >talking it up
> >all nice but actually underneath there are shed-loads of feelings.
>I
> >don’t
> >know if this says anything significant about ibogaine, or about
>the
> >people
> >who are attracted to administering it, or what. But I notice it.
> >
> >   Nick
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >/]=———————————————————————=[\
> >[%] Ibogaine List Commands:
> >http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
> >
> >\]=———————————————————————=[/
> >
> >
>
>  With MSN Spaces email straight to your blog. Upload jokes, photos
>and more. It’s free!
>
>
>
>
>/]=———————————————————————=[\
>  [%] Ibogaine List Commands:
>http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
>
>\]=———————————————————————=[/
>
>
>
>
>
>/]=———————————————————————=[\
>[%] Ibogaine List Commands:
>http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
>
>\]=———————————————————————=[/
>
>

Be one of the first to try Windows Live Mail /]=———————————————————————=[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%] \]=———————————————————————=[/

From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Ibogaine
Date: April 4, 2006 at 3:00:09 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 4/3/06 11:33:08 PM, billjohnson6@sympatico.ca writes:

Come on now,I know there must be some more TESTIMONIES Out there.

Every iboga/ibogaine page has some patient reports.  The Ibogaine Dossier lists the good, the bad and the indifferent.  http://www.ibogaine.org/treatment.html

Though I must admit our new reports are a bit dated.

Howard

From: captkirk <captkirk@clear.net.nz>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] re–low blows
Date: April 4, 2006 at 2:57:13 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Ok, i forgot to touch wood when i sent that email saying we
had no problems in NZ, there’s emails coming left right n
centre and are def. out of order.
What you wrote is to nick, not a snippy line in an email…
This list is just being the list, never a dull moment (cept
when Tink isn’t about, where are you miss tinkersmell, humor
required here now wench)
I just felt that it’s time to perhaps turn the other
cheek….lighten up. Why is it so important who is right and
wrong anyway?
I’m always right, even when I am wrong I’m right.
OK carry on!!!
Love to all
Koiky xxxxxxx

—– Original Message Follows —–
[email.htm]
<html><div style=’background-color:’><P><FONT
face=”Times
New Roman, Times, Serif” size=3>  <STRONG><EM>Hey
Kirsty,</EM></STRONG></FONT></P> <P><STRONG><EM><FONT
face=”Times New Roman” size=3>   The way things
are flowing–or not–on this list, it’s hard to tell the
sequence of things…I mean, I told Nick that I didn’t
wish to comunicate with him any more, and said “we’ll have
to agree to disagree” but then he comes back and says “I
never said only people who have alot of feeling they need
to repress experience bliss from opiates..”  And he
said I was being manipulative and could foresee a future
in politics for me. At first I thought I had lost the
email, where I had copied and pasted his very words, but
then I found it…did you read that stuff? That guy really
is incorigable…no matter how obvious it is, he can’t
admit he simply made a mistake!</FONT></EM></STRONG></P>
<P><STRONG><EM><FONT face=”Times New Roman” size=3>
;   But as far as PP goes, I think he wrote that
quite a bit ago…and he’s pretty tame compared to what
I’ve written…in fact, I just got through making another
friend, Billy Boy, or whatever his name is, who wrote that
he didn’t believe in pro-choice, something I feel VERY
strongly about…I mean, I don’t like abortion, but no-one
should be forced to do or forbidden to do anything, I
believe..now, I don’t believe in murder, but I think
calling abortion murder is as much of a misnomer and
political manipulation as it is a euphemism to call it
‘early termination”  People think humans are just
soooo special, but most of them have no problem with
torturing of animals for meat, or bombing the shit out of
other countries for dubious reasons…Anyway, I don’t
believe in death, so I don’t view abortion as this
TERRIBLE thing…</FONT></EM></STRONG></P>
<P><STRONG><EM><FONT face=”Times New Roman” size=3>
;
But maybe I should just stop being mean–or saying what I
mean..and go read a book. To quote Foetus (an underground,
truly alternative industrial rock/jazz fusion/experiemntal
(unclassifiable) artist sang: ” Saya whatcha mean, and say
it mean!”</FONT></EM></STRONG></P> <P><STRONG><EM><FONT
face=”Times New Roman” size=3>
;
;
;
;
;
;  peace, love, and
FREEDOM</FONT></EM></STRONG></P> <P><STRONG><EM><FONT
face=”Times New Roman” size=3>
;
;
;
;
Everything is permitted!
Alan.</FONT></EM></STRONG><BR><BR></P> <BLOCKQUOTE
style=”PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT:
#a0c6e5 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px”><FONT
style=”FONT-SIZE: 11px; FONT-FAMILY: tahoma,sans-serif”>
<HR color=#a0c6e5 SIZE=1> From: <I>Kirk <
;captkirk@clear.net.nz></I><BR>Reply-To:
<I>ibogaine@mindvox.com</I><BR>To:
<I>ibogaine@mindvox.com</I><BR>Subject: <I>[Ibogaine] Re:
slipper pix</I><BR>Date: <I>Mon, 03 Apr 2006 19:46:57
+1200</I><BR><BR> <META content=”Microsoft SafeHTML”
name=Generator> <STYLE>
</STYLE>

<STYLE>
p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal
{margin:0mm;margin-bottom:.0001pt;font-size:12.0pt
;font-family:’Times New Roman’;} span.EmailStyle18
{font-family:’Comic Sans MS’;color:black
;font-weight:normal;font-style:normal;text-decoration:none
none;} @page Section1
{size:595.3pt 841.9pt;margin:72.0pt 90.0pt 72.0pt 90.0pt;}
div.Section1
{page:Section1;}
ol
{margin-bottom:0mm;}
ul
{margin-bottom:0mm;}

</STYLE>

<DIV class=Section1>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=”Comic Sans MS”
color=black
size=3><SPAN lang=EN-NZ style=”FONT-SIZE: 12pt;
COLOR:
black; FONT-FAMILY: ‘Comic Sans
MS'”>Preston</SPAN></FONT><FONT face=”Comic Sans MS”
color=black><SPAN lang=EN-NZ style=”COLOR: black;
FONT-FAMILY: ‘Comic Sans MS'”> wrote:-</SPAN></FONT><FONT
face=Arial color=black size=2><SPAN
style=”FONT-SIZE: 10pt
; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Arial”>Anyway, hope everyone
is having a good Sunday and not overtaxing themselves with
worry, stress or the absolute weirdness
;about how some folk seem to think “abusive”
language and behavior and “therapeutic” can, logically,
fit together in any sane, rational treatment of addicts
and drug abusers.</SPAN></FONT></P> <P
class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=black
size=2><SPAN
style=”FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY:
Arial”></SPAN></FONT> </P> <P
class=MsoNormal><B><FONT face=Arial color=black
size=3><SPAN style=”FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE:
12pt;
COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Arial”>That was a bit of a low
blow wasn’t it?  I think we’ve all established the
agree to disagree  feud going on here
.. but
shouldn’t you stick to debate instead of random digs in
emails to the whole list?</SPAN></FONT></B></P> <P
class=MsoNormal><B><FONT face=Arial color=black
size=3><SPAN style=”FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE:
12pt;
COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Arial”>Got a lot of time for
you PP, but come on

enough is
enough
..</SPAN></FONT></B></P> <P
class=MsoNormal><B><FONT face=Arial color=black
size=3><SPAN style=”FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE:
12pt;
COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Arial”>With respect for all, on
the road to better health, happiness and abundance.
</SPAN></FONT></B></P> <P class=MsoNormal><B><FONT
face=Arial color=black size=3><SPAN
style=”FONT-WEIGHT:
bold; FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY:
Arial”>Koiky xxx</SPAN></FONT></B><B><FONT face=”Comic
Sans MS” color=black><SPAN lang=EN-NZ
style=”FONT-WEIGHT:
bold; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: ‘Comic Sans
MS'”></SPAN></FONT></B></P></DIV></DIV><BR></FONT></BLOCKQ
UOTE></div><br clear=all><hr> <a
href=”http://g.msn.com/8HMBENUS/2740??PS=47575″
target=”_top”>With MSN Spaces email straight to your
blog.
Upload jokes, photos and more. It’s free! </a> </html>

/]=——————————————————-
————–=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands:
http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]

)=——————————————————-
————–=[/

[Attachment: email.htm]

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: “Billy J” <billjohnson6@sympatico.ca>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] re–low blows For Allan Even Lower Now
Date: April 4, 2006 at 2:56:19 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I really am going to sleep now so I can try to work tomorrow, BUT Allan, you are being a hippo.
I can read you know, I am even helping my daughter learn-(although her Mother is better, because she’s aWoman Ha!)
So Allan, you should be able to find my last message that you commented on and I also read the message that you said so and so took what you said and turned it around and made it out to suit their fancy?? or something like that, Maybe you are tired too. But check out how you were able to take my belief in Pro-Choice and turn it around to say to someone that “Bily Boy or whatever his name is”Quote, You Said that I said I didn’t believe in pro-choice- Now are your going to do what you wanted Nick to due- Admit that you $^%$9 up and mothed off just to make your own point stronger?
You Can quote this my friend– I believe in the Birth the death-and the ressurection of Jesus Christ-
and you know what else- yes you guessd it FREE WILL-
and you know what you have every right  —   to be   —  WRONG! So there-
Seriously though, I heard my childs heart beat at approximately 4-6weeks, something like that and when I had my first son 25 years ago, I had though about abortion, I was 17 she was 19, we were not a good couple- everything was not right (In My EYES)
Today Allan I have 2 grandchildren- and yes, I have went full circle a couple of times, Clean,Drug addict,clean.drugs- Its sick,
But I have 2 kids at home-2 married boys and 2 grandkids thatr would never had been had I not went against popular Opinion,
So please tell me from what experience and or education due you voice your opinion?
I am sorry if I offend you , well no I am not really, But I cannot make babys, all I can do is donate some seed to be planted, I cannot even water that seed until 9 months have past, so I figure I due not nor did my wife make then grow, so I should not be a God that Believes I have the power over life or death of a human being.
Now if you still believe that you and a cow are equal , well thats your business, I’ll still EAT Them,
Even Betsy the Cow or brutus or whatever name you have for the family pet.

Love ya Allan and I do not think that you should let a person walk off a cliff either, That is the same as letting your friend drive drunk, and then say O he said he was OK and its his right, Sorry about your Mom getting run over.

Comprimise will take all of us to a miserable grave and we will wonder what Happened,
Eh any free needles, Herione, lets stay off the street.

By and  by  Wow

—-Original Message Follows—-
From: “Alan Hehe” <a.h.veil68@hotmail.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] re–low blows
Date: Tue, 04 Apr 2006 02:02:23 -0400
MIME-Version: 1.0
Received: from tomts39-srv.bellnexxia.net ([209.226.175.96]) by bay0-pamc1-f11.bay0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Mon, 3 Apr 2006 23:03:11 -0700
Received: from toip5.bellnexxia.net ([209.226.175.88])          by tomts39-srv.bellnexxia.net          (InterMail vM.5.01.06.10 201-253-122-130-110-20040306) with ESMTP          id <20060404060311.TFWH11764.tomts39-srv.bellnexxia.net@toip5.bellnexxia.net>          for <billjohnson6@sympatico.ca>; Tue, 4 Apr 2006 02:03:11 -0400
Received: from tanelorn.mindvox.com (HELO mail.mindvox.com) ([64.124.179.118])  by toip5.bellnexxia.net with ESMTP; 04 Apr 2006 02:03:07 -0400
Received: (qmail 24931 invoked by uid 513); 4 Apr 2006 02:03:04 -0400
Received: (qmail 24925 invoked by uid 514); 4 Apr 2006 02:03:04 -0400
X-Message-Info: moY6YVwXQ453YA+uYTuaB20GXd1g7S7KxqnsXB2ZDU4=
Mailing-List: contact ibogaine-help@mindvox.com; run by ezmlm
Precedence: bulk
X-No-Archive: yes
List-Post: <mailto:ibogaine@mindvox.com>
List-Help: <mailto:ibogaine-help@mindvox.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:ibogaine-unsubscribe@mindvox.com>
List-Subscribe: <mailto:ibogaine-subscribe@mindvox.com>
Delivered-To: mailing list ibogaine@mindvox.com
X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.3 required=4.0
X-Antivirus-MYDOMAIN-Mail-From: a.h.veil68@hotmail.com via tanelorn.mindvox.com
X-Antivirus-MYDOMAIN: 1.25-st-qms (Clear:RC:0(65.54.224.30):SA:0(-2.3/4.0):. Processed in 6.324956 secs Process 24813)
Return-Path: ibogaine-return-23287-billjohnson6=sympatico.ca@mindvox.com
X-OriginalArrivalTime: 04 Apr 2006 06:03:11.0866 (UTC) FILETIME=[744ADDA0:01C657AD]

Hey Kirsty,

The way things are flowing–or not–on this list, it’s hard to tell the sequence of things…I mean, I told Nick that I didn’t wish to comunicate with him any more, and said “we’ll have to agree to disagree” but then he comes back and says “I never said only people who have alot of feeling they need to repress experience bliss from opiates..”  And he said I was being manipulative and could foresee a future in politics for me. At first I thought I had lost the email, where I had copied and pasted his very words, but then I found it…did you read that stuff? That guy really is incorigable…no matter how obvious it is, he can’t admit he simply made a mistake!

But as far as PP goes, I think he wrote that quite a bit ago…and he’s pretty tame compared to what I’ve written…in fact, I just got through making another friend, Billy Boy, or whatever his name is, who wrote that he didn’t believe in pro-choice, something I feel VERY strongly about…I mean, I don’t like abortion, but no-one should be forced to do or forbidden to do anything, I believe..now, I don’t believe in murder, but I think calling abortion murder is as much of a misnomer and political manipulation as it is a euphemism to call it ‘early termination”  People think humans are just soooo special, but most of them have no problem with torturing of animals for meat, or bombing the shit out of other countries for dubious reasons…Anyway, I don’t believe in death, so I don’t view abortion as this TERRIBLE thing…

But maybe I should just stop being mean–or saying what I mean..and go read a book. To quote Foetus (an underground, truly alternative industrial rock/jazz fusion/experiemntal (unclassifiable) artist sang: ” Saya whatcha mean, and say it mean!”

peace, love, and FREEDOM

Everything is permitted!   Alan.

From: Kirk <captkirk@clear.net.nz>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] Re: slipper pix
Date: Mon, 03 Apr 2006 19:46:57 +1200

Preston wrote:-Anyway, hope everyone is having a good Sunday and not overtaxing themselves with worry, stress or the absolute weirdness about how some folk seem to think “abusive” language and behavior and “therapeutic” can, logically, fit together in any sane, rational treatment of addicts and drug abusers.

 

That was a bit of a low blow wasn’t it?  I think we’ve all established the agree to disagree  feud going on here
.. but shouldn’t you stick to debate instead of random digs in emails to the whole list?

Got a lot of time for you PP, but come on

enough is enough
..

With respect for all, on the road to better health, happiness and abundance.

Koiky xxx

With MSN Spaces email straight to your blog. Upload jokes, photos and more. It’s free!

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Ibogaine against earthquakes in Iran & elsewhere
Date: April 4, 2006 at 2:55:06 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Glad to know you are safe.

Howard

In a message dated 4/3/06 10:55:17 PM, pascal-roland@hotmail.com writes:

we are still alive, thanks, and were out of the country at time of
earthquakes.

we intend to grow some ibog plants here as it might they might be effecitve
against earthquakes as well. can anyone confirm that info.?

love

pascal

>From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
>Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
>To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
>Subject: [Ibogaine] OT-quakes in Iran
>Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2006 15:27:07 EST
>
>Anyone heard from pascal? I am kind of worried about him and his  family.
>Callie

From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Pot calling the Kettle Black?
Date: April 2, 2006 at 9:10:10 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

That Ann’s his mom perhaps gives him the right Alan.
;-))
—–
“If God dropped acid, would he see people?”  ~Steven Wright

Peace, love and lotsof respect.
Preston Peet
ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor Underground- the Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations, Astonishing Archaeology and Hidden History
Editor Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Columnist HighTimes mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —– From: Alan Hehe
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Sunday, April 02, 2006 12:31 PM
Subject: [Ibogaine] Pot calling the Kettle Black?

Hey…uh, Biscuit Boy,
What’s the matter? Do you NOT like my debate with Nick, or do you just not like the fact that Ann paid me a compliment? Do you agree with Nick’s idea that only emotionally repressed individuals receive any sort of high from opiates? If you’ve got something to say, why not come out and say it? Have you never done opiates? Or any drugs? What gives you the right to judge Ann? Personally I don’t care if her comment was influened by a whole gram of Mexican brown! Better a nice compliment from someone high, than a nasty one from someone sober! Now, if I’ve misconstrued your intent, I apologize, but I would appreciate a logical explanation rather than a low-blow insinuation.

From:  biscuitboy714@aol.com
Reply-To:  ibogaine@mindvox.com
To:  ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject:  Re: [Ibogaine] Opiate effects
Date:  Sun, 02 Apr 2006 11:05:09 -0400
Yea Ann, tell us how much heroin you shot last night. He He I couldn’t help it. I love you Mamma           Randy

—–Original Message—–
From: Alan Hehe <a.h.veil68@hotmail.com>
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Sat, 01 Apr 2006 11:15:03 -0500
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Opiate effects

Hey Ann,

Thank you for the compliment…Somebody’s got to try to counter his crazy ideas with some sense. Feel free to write me anytime..I really enjoy talking to people on this list and hearing their stories…Oh, don’t tell anyone, but I studied semantics and debate in high school! Just kidding…about the hush hush, as anyone will be able to read this. Oh, heck–LOL! I’m 37, and High school is but a distant, mainly unplesant experience…except when I would catch my English teacher making grammatical or syntactical mistakes, before they moved me into an A.P. college-level class…And no, I’m not conceited, either..but I do enjoy debate! Everyone has certain qualities at which they excel, and others at which they are deficient. I make up for my skill in English by being a retard in math! Plus, I couldn’t be that smart or I wouldn’t be here, looking for a way out of the hell-hole I dug for myself….and despite having a really shitty childhood, I take complete responsibility for my current position in life……………………………….Wishing you the best in all…….Alan.

——–
From: “Ann B. Mullikin” <think@francomm.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Opiate effects
Date: Sat, 1 Apr 2006 10:04:20 -0500

No, I am not Nick but…..

Bravo, Alan.  I surely do appreciate the way you use your brain – TO THINK AND TO REASON.  Its good stuff.  Keep on.

ann
think@francomm.com

—– Original Message —–
From: Alan Hehe
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Friday, March 31, 2006 4:49 PM
Subject: [Ibogaine] Opiate effects

Hey Nick,

I wanted to say that, although I was basically right, I believe (and according to the research I’ve done) about the reason opiates cause pleasure, I wasn’t entirely correct about the natural opiates (dopamine,etc) having an effect on mood. They do have an affect on mood..but then again, so does euphoria..in fact, it could be said to be a mood unto itself. Here’s a little medical info for: Opiates (heroin, morphine, etc.)

The human body naturally produces its own opiate-like substances and uses them as neurotransmitters. These substances include endorphins, enkephalins, and dynorphin, often collectively known as endogenous opioids. Endogenous opioids modulate our reactions to painful stimuli. They also regulate vital functions such as hunger and thirst and are involved in mood control, immune response, and other processes.

The reason that opiates such as heroin and morphine affect us so powerfully is that these exogenous substances bind to the same receptors as our endogenous opioids. There are three kinds of receptors widely distributed throughout the brain: mu, delta, and kappa receptors.

These receptors, through second messengers, influence the likelihood that ion channels will open, which in certain cases reduces the excitability of neurons. This reduced excitability is the likely source of the euphoric effect of opiates and appears to be mediated by the mu and delta receptors.

This euphoric effect also appears to involve another mechanism in which the GABA-inhibitory interneurons of the ventral tegmental area come into play. By attaching to their mu receptors, exogenous opioids reduce the amount of GABA released (see animation). Normally, GABA reduces the amount of dopamine released in the nucleus accumbens. By inhibiting this inhibitor, the opiates ultimately increase the amount of dopamine produced and the amount of pleasure felt.

Chronic consumption of opiates inhibits the production of cAMP, but this inhibition is offset in the long run by other cAMP production mechanisms. When no opiates are available, this increased cAMP production capacity comes to the fore and results in neural hyperactivity and the sensation of craving the drug.

——–
Make FREE PC-to-PC calls with MSN Messenger. Get it now! /]=———————————————————————=
[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%] \]=———————————————————————=
[/

——–
Find just what you’re after with the new, more precise MSN Search – try it now! /]=———————————————————————=
[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%] \]=———————————————————————=
[/

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

Be one of the first to try Windows Live Mail /]=———————————————————————=[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%] \]=———————————————————————=[/

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: “Billy J” <billjohnson6@sympatico.ca>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Whats a Republican?
Date: April 4, 2006 at 2:19:25 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hear this peace and take it to your Heart FRIEND.
1st if we go back to Killing kids for the sins of their fathers (Child of a Rapist) Do you think that is more civilized then Raising Cattle for food,(Cattle are food “not Pets”) although you may be from India or somewhere that they worship your cows and even there fecal matter I hear! Now if your are at that junkger(Place) then I will have to say -well Al, Bless you, but when was the last time you had your precious cow go to war for YOUR FREEDOMS that I am sure you are enjoying- Yes?
Allan , do you really love cows (the 4 legged ones that is) or are you in your 2nd or 3rd reincarnation and you where once a cow and you have come into this wierd mooing stage and you just could not figure it out.
Ok That is sarcasm – Sorry< I’ll get serious.
Oh Ya Your aborting a fetus-, and yes I know that in the USof A being the most civilized Nation that has usually voted anti- Christian ( just in case somebody didn’t let Everybody do what FEELs GOOD)
Ya you can Have sex with anybody you want and then if a girl gets pregnant, or do you call it fetus something, oh well  so shes pregnant you have 9 months to decide whether or not you what the little BLOB Because your fetus can be kicking up a storm and as long as you can keep its stupid( oh it,s brain isn’t functioning yet ,right) well as long as you can keep its head inside the grown up fetus ( that would be the female, The pregnant one, knocked up one , dumb one what ever you would call someone like that ( Maybe MOM) well just reach in and CRUSH ITS SCULL and or STICK A SYRINGE INTO THe Back of it HEAD JUST UNTIL ITS STOPS PUTTINGN UP A FIGHT, AND they do fight Allan, just go and ask your abortion doctor.– PARTIAL BIRTH ABORTION– VERY NICE–
oH YA AND YOU KNOW WHAT ALLY BABY THAT STUPID WAR MOGER THAT YOU HAVE AS A PRESIDENT WOULD LIKE NOTHING MORE THAN TO SAVE PEOPLE BUT ALL YOU PEOPLE THAT GOD GAVE YOU FREE CHOICE HAVE DECIDED TO VOTE FOR THE REAL KILLERS-
Have you any clue how many of your fetuses are done away with each year in the USA alone,, Allan Baby– way way more in 1 year than have been killed in ALL the World wars— How many do you think are rape and how many are just another form of birth control,, Your Planned Parenthood is a multi-Billion dollar industry that fights for you to have the freedom to get rid of your Babies- But They do not do it for free– They are rich.One more thing if we can justify killing because you THINK they don’t feel pain- Why not line up all us addicts right after a good whack and while we are feeling no pain BANG-
Save a lot of tax dollars- The Meth Clinics would be Pissed though.

Love Ya!

Just Don’t say it is OK To Kill My Children- Or Yours

B

—-Original Message Follows—-
From: “Alan Hehe” <a.h.veil68@hotmail.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] RE: [Pornography,psychology,Choice,force,) 2 cents
Date: Tue, 04 Apr 2006 01:25:21 -0400
MIME-Version: 1.0
Received: from tomts30-srv.bellnexxia.net ([209.226.175.104]) by bay0-pamc1-f3.bay0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Mon, 3 Apr 2006 22:27:22 -0700
Received: from toip4.bellnexxia.net ([209.226.175.87])          by tomts30-srv.bellnexxia.net          (InterMail vM.5.01.06.13 201-253-122-130-113-20050324) with ESMTP          id <20060404052721.IXFI18550.tomts30-srv.bellnexxia.net@toip4.bellnexxia.net>          for <billjohnson6@sympatico.ca>; Tue, 4 Apr 2006 01:27:21 -0400
Received: from tanelorn.mindvox.com (HELO mail.mindvox.com) ([64.124.179.118])  by toip4.bellnexxia.net with ESMTP; 04 Apr 2006 01:27:16 -0400
Received: (qmail 1073 invoked by uid 513); 4 Apr 2006 01:27:15 -0400
Received: (qmail 1067 invoked by uid 514); 4 Apr 2006 01:27:15 -0400
X-Message-Info: moY6YVwXQ46hfM+PXD+r03SFMVOY3E1daJYU/Sm1Nkw=
Mailing-List: contact ibogaine-help@mindvox.com; run by ezmlm
Precedence: bulk
X-No-Archive: yes
List-Post: <mailto:ibogaine@mindvox.com>
List-Help: <mailto:ibogaine-help@mindvox.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:ibogaine-unsubscribe@mindvox.com>
List-Subscribe: <mailto:ibogaine-subscribe@mindvox.com>
Delivered-To: mailing list ibogaine@mindvox.com
X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.1 required=4.0
X-Antivirus-MYDOMAIN-Mail-From: a.h.veil68@hotmail.com via tanelorn.mindvox.com
X-Antivirus-MYDOMAIN: 1.25-st-qms (Clear:RC:0(65.54.224.26):SA:0(-2.1/4.0):. Processed in 8.08646 secs Process 1055)
Return-Path: ibogaine-return-23280-billjohnson6=sympatico.ca@mindvox.com
X-OriginalArrivalTime: 04 Apr 2006 05:27:22.0868 (UTC) FILETIME=[7363CB40:01C657A8]

I gotta take a piece of this one. Okay, Mr. Anti-choice, let me ask you this: do you eat meat? If not, then good for you. If so, have you ever though about the actual, truly painful, totally inhumane treatment we put animals through? And usually don’t think twice about it…It’s people like George Bush who make me wish sometimes that God would hurl an asteroid at us! It’s “God forbid one human foetus (who does not feel a thing if the abortion is done in a timely manner, according to the latest research, because their nervous system isn’t nearly fully developed) should perish, no matter if it was caused by a rape or is probably going to be born into alot of suffering–but while I’m on my high horse, cut me a piece o that cow off and cook it up! It’s sheer egotism that we believe that humans are so damned
important, but it’s okay if we torture animals, ruin the planet, and make other people adhere to our beliefs!!! We’re not that important! And if you believe in a God and the soul, then you know that–if the foetus even has a soul yet, which I don’t believe it does..I believe the soul enters with the first breath, and leaves with the last–that baby is just going back into the arms of God! There is no death! And since they don’t experience pain, all it becomes is something for people like you to feel self righteous about! Personally, I think everyone should smoke pot, and would benefit from it (except for a few cases), but how would you like it if I MADE you smoke it? That is, if you don’t, and don’t like it. Or let’s say you eat meat, but I think it’s just as evil to do that as to allow abortions, so I outlawed meat–would that be okay with you? And the cliff analogy is just stupid–not
the same thing at all. But yes, I think if a person is truly miserable, and wants to die, I would try to talk them out of it, but I would never stop them by force. That’s called LACK OF FREEDOM. And if we didn’t make mistakes, how would we ever learn? To be told something is wrong is one thing..you can tell a person, fire will burn you..but until they get burned, they will not truly understand, and that’s what life is all about–learning. No, I don’t like to see foetus’ abortions–I think prevention is the answer….But sometimes, I believe it is ‘the best choice’. If everyone like you had their way, there really would be NO ROOM AT ALL left!!! We’re already sooo over-populated! It’s like I heard some character say in a movie recently..”everybody’s kids are so special…it makes you wonder where all the normal adults come from”. Even God believes in freedom of choice! That’s why he gave
us FREE WILL. You’re a Republican, aren’t you? And you probably think that war-mongering asshole of a President is the best-thing since sliced bread, eh? It’s okay to kill, as long as it’s not a precious child…even though that child may grow up to be The Son of Sam!  well…”take me by the ham, no good, no evil, no give a damn!”  And the Govt. is lying to you! About just about everything. Peace, love, and freedom. Life is too mysterious to take it so serious!

From:  “Billy J” <billjohnson6@sympatico.ca>
Reply-To:  ibogaine@mindvox.com
To:  ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject:  [Ibogaine] RE: [Pornography,psychology,Choice,force,) 2 cents
Date:  Sun, 02 Apr 2006 21:45:39 -0400
>Well It sounds like this place is really mixing it up so I would
>like to add a little REALITY TO YOU PRO CHOICERS, I am sure glad I
>was not an abortion’ althought I have had my moments.
>Yes My Mom was a young Mom and if she had a choice I think that I
>would have no Grandkids, or be babbleing on here.
>     I too have an attitude, It is about the only thing in this
>world that I really have control over.
>Tiger– How well did you do with making ALL your own Choices,
>Instead of doing
what your were told to do? Not meant to be a shot
>at you personally, but I am with the Right or Wrong crowd- No such
>thing as grey.
>   I do know that some people may have grown up believing that wrong
>was right and right was wrong, but I Think that I pretty much knew
>when I was stepping out of line and doing wrong.
>It is (as most believe) My God , no not God, but My worldly given
>Right- to do wrong- It’s my life and if I want to screw it up then
>stay out of my way. And you know what I had a lot of sooo called
>friends that did just that WATCHED, AS i WAS Killing myself and
>ruining a lot of lifes.
>But O O O never no no no neverdare step on somebodys toes because
>you know what they have a choice, Just like those poor little Crack
>%$^&%$ Women that degrade themselves( and me
myself) due to
>everybody. But Never No No Never dare tell somebody or force someone
>to get some help that they may never ever make it to on their own,
>due to something called “Pride” “Shame” “Guilt”
>Whatever holds them back. They may end up DEAD and it would be their
>own fault, because you know how STRONG us druggies are, and if that
>person dies because he had a choice to get help and refused or just
>couldn’t make it on his/her own and needed YOU (of course they
>didn’t tell you that).
>I am sorry but I BELIEVE that if you Love Someone or even care a
>little, and you see them walking off a cliff and YOU have an
>opportunity to stop them, and you don’t- Can you truelly say it was
>their own fault?
>Pornography- I never met too many Normal people that would find it
>neccesary to take their
cloths off for the public to see. Totally
>wrong and if you had your own kids you might not think it too cool
>having your buddy beating off while checking out your little girl.
>Not nice eh Billy but P–sy T-ts are not meant for anyone except who
>they belong to and their mate.
>
>Bye For Now, That stuff is about the biggest trigger going for any
>downfall
>
>Bill
>—-Original Message Follows—-
>From: “Nick Sandberg” <nick227@tiscali.co.uk>
>Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
>To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
>Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Opiates
>Date: Sun, 2 Apr 2006 10:24:07 +0100
>MIME-Version: 1.0
>Received: from tomts21-srv.bellnexxia.net ([209.226.175.183]) by
>bay0-pamc1-f11.bay0.hotmail.com with Microsoft
>SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Sun, 2 Apr 2006 05:38:59
-0700
>Received: from toip5.bellnexxia.net ([209.226.175.88])          by
>tomts21-srv.bellnexxia.net          (InterMail vM.5.01.06.13
>201-253-122-130-113-20050324) with ESMTP          id
><20060402123858.HZPV14030.tomts21-srv.bellnexxia.net@toip5.bellnexxia.net>
>          for <billjohnson6@sympatico.ca>; Sun, 2 Apr 2006 08:38:58
>-0400
>Received: from tanelorn.mindvox.com (HELO mail.mindvox.com)
>([64.124.179.118])  by toip5.bellnexxia.net with ESMTP; 02 Apr 2006
>08:38:58 -0400
>Received: (qmail 16967 invoked by uid 513); 2 Apr 2006 08:38:55
>-0400
>Received: (qmail 16961 invoked by uid
514); 2 Apr 2006 08:38:55
>-0400
>X-Message-Info: moY6YVwXQ44WAJnUvaOEtK2hXKGagKAsshDbZwj7pSc=
>Mailing-List: contact ibogaine-help@mindvox.com; run by ezmlm
>Precedence: bulk
>X-No-Archive: yes
>List-Post: <mailto:ibogaine@mindvox.com>
>List-Help: <mailto:ibogaine-help@mindvox.com>
>List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:ibogaine-unsubscribe@mindvox.com>
>List-Subscribe: <mailto:ibogaine-subscribe@mindvox.com>
>Delivered-To: mailing list ibogaine@mindvox.com
>X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.3 required=4.0
>X-Antivirus-MYDOMAIN-Mail-From: nick227@tiscali.co.uk via
>tanelorn.mindvox.com
>X-Antivirus-MYDOMAIN: 1.25-st-qms
>(Clear:RC:0(212.74.114.37):SA:0(-2.3/4.0):. Processed in 2.781926
>secs Process 16953)
>X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true
>X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result:
AQAAAJ0kL0SDE4UI
>X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.6604 (9.0.2911.0)
>Return-Path:
>ibogaine-return-23233-billjohnson6=sympatico.ca@mindvox.com
>X-OriginalArrivalTime: 02 Apr 2006 12:38:59.0373 (UTC)
>FILETIME=[6A155DD0:01C65652]
>
>
>   —–Original Message—–
>   From: Tiger Lisa [mailto:tigerlisa@gmail.com]
>   Sent: 01 April 2006 13:44
>   To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
>   Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Opiates
>
>
>   Dear Nick,
>   Here’ the part I don’t understand.
>
>   You wrote,
>   Personally, my position is…I think rising awareness is GOOD. I
>would
>love to see more people in groups, going through their stuff,
>becoming more
>aware of their
personal interior dynamic, and moving forward in
>life. But,
>sadly, I’m not in a position to compel people to do this.
>
>   Why would you ever want to COMPEL anyone to do ANYTHING? Do you
>really
>believe that would be useful, effective, helpful? Do you think
>people
>actually benefit from, and grow from, being FORCED to do anything?
>
>   That is a parent-child model of interaction (and not a
>particularly
>skillful one, IMO), and it’s going to reinforce childlike,
>rebellious and
>victim behavior (NOT self-awareness!) in the one so compelled, as
>well as
>reinforcing bullying behavior and disprespectful and righteous
>attitudes
>(NOT increased compassion or awareness) in the one doing the
>compelling. A
>”lose-lose” interaction–no one
wins!
>
>   Myself, I believe CHOICE is the name of the game. With choice
>comes
>responsibility, self-responsibility and a loss of the victim
>consciousness
>that drives continued reactive and unconscious behavior.
>
>   So in a nutshell: Saying something (like awarenss) is GOOD is one
>thing,
>but it’s a far cry from that to say,”And I’d love to FORCE you all
>to be
>more aware! too bad I can’t!” I think that is the essence of what
>*I* am
>having a problem with. Yes, awareness is good. I agree. Yes, I’d
>love to
>live in a more aware society, umm hmm. Then I read the next sentence
>and I’m
>brought up short.
>
>   We all need love, acceptance, compassion. Compassion is one of
>the most
>healing things
going! Power and control, on the other hand, just get
>people’s backs up, thrust them into dysfunctional modes of thinking
>and
>perpetuate a lack of awareness all around.
>
>   Just my two cents,
>   Tiger
>
>   PS I bet if you took a shot of heroin, you would experience
>bliss! (not
>that I’m suggesting you do) I believe it is just how human beings
>are wired.
>We’ve all got the same neurotransmitters, more or less.
>
>   Hi Tiger,
>
>   Well, I seem to recall, from the days when I used to go to
>conferences and
>stuff, that studies have shown that only a small percentage of
>school kids
>who used heroin developed a habit. (Howard Parker in Sheffield, or
>something
>like that, about 1000 individuals
studied). This is not quite the
>same as
>what you’re saying, I appreciate, but it shows that the drug of
>itself is
>not necessarily addicting. I don’t know if anyone knows what makes a
>difference but I’d be willing to bet that, psychologically, it
>relates
>strongly to “ego orientation” vs “underlying levels of feeling.” If
>you’ve
>developed a self-image that requires you to repress more feelings
>than the
>endogenous opiates in your body can do, then taking heroin is going
>to make
>you feel pretty good. I would personally say that this is very
>likely one
>psychological mechanism behind addiction. This would explain why so
>many
>addicts do come from relatively high trauma backgrounds. For, as
>kids, we
>learn that to “get things” and to “be popular” we need to
be able to
>keep
>our feelings a bit under control, not just likely to collapse from
>overfeeling at any time.
>
>   With bliss, (or anxiety for that matter), these are experiential
>things
>and no neuroscientist can explain them beyond pointing a little at
>things
>that seem to be involved. What is clear is that the states are
>relative to
>one another. If you’re basically a happy person bliss is inevitably
>less
>attractive than if you’re an anxious person.
>
>   About awareness, yes, I would love to force everyone to be more
>aware!
>And, inevitably, it doesn’t really work like that! But that’s my
>position
>anyway. What to do? Yes, compassion is needed, sometimes a lot of
>it. Also,
>all the power and control at times. I’m not so
busy with how I think
>society
>should be, or trying to like Understand the world, I just put my
>position
>out really. About choice, well, it seems like a great thing, for
>sure, but
>to me it’s a little the same as trying to push compassion at the
>expense of
>power. In philosophy or spirituality or whatever, some people
>believe that
>free will exists, others that the universe is entirely
>deterministic. Who
>the fuck knows? Both are cool viewpoints, and I personally wouldn’t
>just
>want to just trapped in just one of them.
>
>   Is it cool to allow someone you care about to carry on fucking
>their life
>up because you believe so much in their free will? Not for me! I
>like to
>have the guts to take a position. And, to be honest, it’s a little

>bit what
>I miss in this list, where half the time everyone seems to be
>talking it up
>all nice but actually underneath there are shed-loads of feelings. I
>don’t
>know if this says anything significant about ibogaine, or about the
>people
>who are attracted to administering it, or what. But I notice it.
>
>   Nick
>
>
>
>
>
>/]=———————————————————————=[\
>[%] Ibogaine List Commands:
>http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
>
>\]=———————————————————————=[/
>
>

With MSN Spaces email straight to your blog. Upload jokes, photos and more. It’s free!

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: “pascall roland” <pascal-roland@hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] this list is messed up!
Date: April 4, 2006 at 1:50:29 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

me too!

Callie, everytime you include keywords like Iran, etc… – like me now – yr big brother organisations overthere filter the correspondences.

but the send-receive delay should be related too a technical reason.

P.R.

From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] this list is messed up!
Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2006 14:34:06 EDT

I have been getting some messages from postmaster saying messages delayed
and/or undeliverable. Anyone else having this problem?
Some of the posts I am not getting. I read the replies you folks are  writing
but did not receive original message.
Callie

_________________________________________________________________
FREE pop-up blocking with the new MSN Toolbar – get it now! http://toolbar.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200415ave/direct/01/

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: “Sara Glatt” <sara119@xs4all.nl>
Subject: [Ibogaine] Earth, relatively speaking OT
Date: April 3, 2006 at 9:55:44 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

—————————- Original Message —————————-
Subject: shiva: Fw: Earth, relatively speaking
From:    “O#o van Nieuwenhuijze” <NowHere@ProVisions.nl>
Date:    Mon, April 3, 2006 13:31
To:      “shiva Mailing List” <shiva@jelbert.nl>
————————————————————————–

Earth, relatively speaking
Earth and Other Planets… ever feel like a grain of sand on a very large
beach ?

This is actually pretty cool….Compare the size of the earth with other
planets

Now compare it with Uranus & Neptune

Now Earth against Sun

This
is
Earth
Against Sun, Earth is like a dot.
Think about it!! Where do you find yourself now?? (A grain of sand? A
subatomic particle?)
/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: “Alan Hehe” <a.h.veil68@hotmail.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] re–low blows
Date: April 4, 2006 at 2:02:23 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hey Kirsty,
The way things are flowing–or not–on this list, it’s hard to tell the sequence of things…I mean, I told Nick that I didn’t wish to comunicate with him any more, and said “we’ll have to agree to disagree” but then he comes back and says “I never said only people who have alot of feeling they need to repress experience bliss from opiates..”  And he said I was being manipulative and could foresee a future in politics for me. At first I thought I had lost the email, where I had copied and pasted his very words, but then I found it…did you read that stuff? That guy really is incorigable…no matter how obvious it is, he can’t admit he simply made a mistake!
But as far as PP goes, I think he wrote that quite a bit ago…and he’s pretty tame compared to what I’ve written…in fact, I just got through making another friend, Billy Boy, or whatever his name is, who wrote that he didn’t believe in pro-choice, something I feel VERY strongly about…I mean, I don’t like abortion, but no-one should be forced to do or forbidden to do anything, I believe..now, I don’t believe in murder, but I think calling abortion murder is as much of a misnomer and political manipulation as it is a euphemism to call it ‘early termination”  People think humans are just soooo special, but most of them have no problem with torturing of animals for meat, or bombing the shit out of other countries for dubious reasons…Anyway, I don’t believe in death, so I don’t view abortion as this TERRIBLE thing…
But maybe I should just stop being mean–or saying what I mean..and go read a book. To quote Foetus (an underground, truly alternative industrial rock/jazz fusion/experiemntal (unclassifiable) artist sang: ” Saya whatcha mean, and say it mean!”
peace, love, and FREEDOM
Everything is permitted!   Alan.

From: Kirk <captkirk@clear.net.nz>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] Re: slipper pix
Date: Mon, 03 Apr 2006 19:46:57 +1200

Preston wrote:-Anyway, hope everyone is having a good Sunday and not overtaxing themselves with worry, stress or the absolute weirdness about how some folk seem to think “abusive” language and behavior and “therapeutic” can, logically, fit together in any sane, rational treatment of addicts and drug abusers.

That was a bit of a low blow wasn’t it?  I think we’ve all established the agree to disagree  feud going on here….. but shouldn’t you stick to debate instead of random digs in emails to the whole list?
Got a lot of time for you PP, but come on……enough is enough…..
With respect for all, on the road to better health, happiness and abundance.
Koiky xxx

With MSN Spaces email straight to your blog. Upload jokes, photos and more. It’s free! /]=———————————————————————=[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%] \]=———————————————————————=[/

From: “Billy J” <billjohnson6@sympatico.ca>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Opiates Fellings and repression=- Hang on
Date: April 3, 2006 at 11:57:04 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

All that talk Kinda seems to be the modern day version of finding something or someone to blame for our srcew-ups, as well as all this repression stuf and therapists really leave your (whoevers) mind open to receve almost anything that comes by, So be carful, because those repressed things that come up may not even be yours- could be something you heard about or seen on TV .

We only have One Day, and I personally am Hopeing for one more.

I hope we can All get Better– Why? So we can make a differance in someone elses life,- You know maybe my kids do not have to go through my same stuff.
love yas all.
Billy Boy

Hanging -On

—-Original Message Follows—-
From: “Alan Hehe” <a.h.veil68@hotmail.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Opiates
Date: Sun, 02 Apr 2006 07:28:22 -0400
MIME-Version: 1.0
Received: from tomts11-srv.bellnexxia.net ([209.226.175.55]) by bay0-pamc1-f10.bay0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Mon, 3 Apr 2006 20:44:42 -0700
Received: from toip5.bellnexxia.net ([209.226.175.88])          by tomts11-srv.bellnexxia.net          (InterMail vM.5.01.06.13 201-253-122-130-113-20050324) with ESMTP          id <20060404034656.HGZY6620.tomts11-srv.bellnexxia.net@toip5.bellnexxia.net>          for <billjohnson6@sympatico.ca>; Mon, 3 Apr 2006 23:46:56 -0400
Received: from tanelorn.mindvox.com (HELO mail.mindvox.com) ([64.124.179.118])  by toip5.bellnexxia.net with ESMTP; 03 Apr 2006 23:44:40 -0400
Received: (qmail 18680 invoked by uid 513); 3 Apr 2006 23:44:34 -0400
Received: (qmail 18674 invoked by uid 514); 3 Apr 2006 23:44:34 -0400
X-Message-Info: moY6YVwXQ47xzVs4EcoQNGFiOp7qNAeqCHeGim8OVc4=
Mailing-List: contact ibogaine-help@mindvox.com; run by ezmlm
Precedence: bulk
X-No-Archive: yes
List-Post: <mailto:ibogaine@mindvox.com>
List-Help: <mailto:ibogaine-help@mindvox.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:ibogaine-unsubscribe@mindvox.com>
List-Subscribe: <mailto:ibogaine-subscribe@mindvox.com>
Delivered-To: mailing list ibogaine@mindvox.com
X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.6 required=4.0
X-Antivirus-MYDOMAIN-Mail-From: a.h.veil68@hotmail.com via tanelorn.mindvox.com
X-Antivirus-MYDOMAIN: 1.25-st-qms (Clear:RC:0(65.54.224.13):SA:0(-1.6/4.0):. Processed in 3.668219 secs Process 18466)
Return-Path: ibogaine-return-23263-billjohnson6=sympatico.ca@mindvox.com
X-OriginalArrivalTime: 04 Apr 2006 03:44:42.0950 (UTC) FILETIME=[1BCAE660:01C6579A]

Dear Callie,

I don’t want to get another person upset at me, but your statements, and agreeing with Nick seem contradictory. In other words, you wrote:
“Personally they do not stop me from feeling….that exaggerate euphoria but I still feel shame, sadness, guilt, etc.”…
I totally agree and they react the same with me…I still experience the same range of emotions I always have. Yet Nick says:If they take a drug which helps to push all the feelings back into unconsciousness, an analgesic like heroin for example, then it will feel blissful
Now you are saying that you still experience all the emotions you always did, and he is saying that opiates “stop all feeling” (from a previous post) and “push all feelings back into unconsciouness.”

This two statements seem obviously contradictory to me. And the reason I pasted the medical info into the one post is because Nick wrote–and unfortunately I don’t have the post, so I can’t diretly copy it, but I promise that this is almost exactly what he said: “if you experience bliss from an analgesic, like morphine, it’s because you have alot of repressed feelings. If you can think of another reason, I would love to hear it.”…..so, I gave him one–opiates affecting the pleasure/reward center of the brain. His statement implies that unless you are emotionally repressed, you will not get high from an opiate–and that’s simply not true.
I do, however, agree with you about chemicals affecting everyone differently…I would even go as far to say that his confrontational therapy may help a few people, but I think few is the operational word here. Also, with a substance like ibogaine around, which truly does (from what I’ve heard..and experienced myself from other hallucinogens, especially psilocybin(the active ingredient in one form of hallucinogenic mushrooms..the one’s that grow out of cow dung) hold a mirror up to one’s deepest personality aspects (and without a bunch of obscene shouting) why do we need people like Nick? Most of the people on this list that I’ve read dis-agree with his methods…Also, because he’s never actually experienced either the euphoria of opiates, or the hell of withdrawal, I must admit that I do have a prejudice against his judgement…It’s like someone teaching swimming who has never been in the water.
But who knows..I could be wrong. But I DO know that one does not have to be emotionally repressed in order to feel a high from opiates…that’s sheer hogwash. But I do believe he’s totally entitled to his beliefs and right to speak them…But he does scare me a little..like his statement about wishing he had the means to compel everyone into confrontational therapy….and–not to insult your intelligence, but in case you misconstrue the meaning of compel, here’s the def. from the Oxford Modern Eng. Dict. “to force through submission…”
And I hate the idea of anyone forcing anyone to do anything, regardless of whether it’s helpful to them or not–in fact, if it were going to be helpful, that helpfullness would most likely be destroyed due to the fact that the person is not doing it out of free will.
Best wishes to you, Callie. I hope what I’ve “said” makes some sense to you…………………………Sincerely, Alan.

 

From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Opiates
Date: Sat, 1 Apr 2006 19:29:37 EST

You know, I don’t know if pharmacology is even important in what you all are discussing.

I think that opiates react differently in everyone. Maybe the physiological actions are the same but folks respond to the results differently.

Personally they do not stop me from feeling….that exaggerate euphoria but I still feel shame, sadness, guilt, etc.

Nick states, “From that, I don’t think it’s unreasonable to suggest that, if someone is struggling to hold down excess feelings, they will experience high levels of daily anxiety. If they take a drug which helps to push all the feelings back into unconsciousness, an analgesic like heroin for example, then it will feel blissful. The anxiety is gone for a while and it feels great. This seems pretty reasonable to me.”

Sounds reasonable to me too!

Callie

See if you’ve won, play MSN Search and Win

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: “Sara Glatt” <sara119@xs4all.nl>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Vector Vector Get a Life
Date: April 4, 2006 at 1:57:28 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

what A joke.Thanks Vector, I wouldn’t have find that one myself.
that Daniel is an abusive a wannabe shaman,he is trying to convert my
clients  to santo daime church,all he could do is gossip about people from
that church like a “yannte”.
I only met him few times.
now that I don’t agree with him about talk shit about others and my
clients complained about him, I have nothing to do with him and he can’t
take that from me.
so he put that on the streets to show how abusive he is  ;).
he never ever helped me with anything, just fooling with lots of bullshit
to make me realise what kind of person he is ;).

Sara

Drugs are Druigs and I guess girls will be girls to the end.
Come back Vector Vector when you can do the next thing you do GOOD!
Because
GOSSIP is BAAAAAAAADDDDDDD    NO MORE GOSSIP PLEASE.

With lots of Loove and hugs and kisses and SMILES.
and especially a quiet mouth,
Billy the mad man today. LoL

—-Original Message Follows—-
From: Vector Vector <vector620022002@yahoo.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] Sara!
Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2006 16:19:39 -0700 (PDT)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Received: from tomts2-srv.bellnexxia.net ([209.226.175.114]) by
bay0-pamc1-f8.bay0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Mon,
3
Apr 2006 16:31:34 -0700
Received: from toip6.bellnexxia.net ([209.226.175.174])          by
tomts2-srv.bellnexxia.net          (InterMail vM.5.01.06.13
201-253-122-130-113-20050324) with ESMTP          id
<20060403233251.MCQV10941.tomts2-srv.bellnexxia.net@toip6.bellnexxia.net>
for <billjohnson6@sympatico.ca>; Mon, 3 Apr 2006 19:32:51 -0400
Received: from tanelorn.mindvox.com (HELO mail.mindvox.com)
([64.124.179.118])  by toip6.bellnexxia.net with ESMTP; 03 Apr 2006
19:31:29
-0400
Received: (qmail 2044 invoked by uid 513); 3 Apr 2006 19:31:23 -0400
Received: (qmail 2038 invoked by uid 514); 3 Apr 2006 19:31:23 -0400
X-Message-Info: moY6YVwXQ44yrLI3b7R+Fs+tkBHj+vYENtvdA7+0Cb0=
Mailing-List: contact ibogaine-help@mindvox.com; run by ezmlm
Precedence: bulk
X-No-Archive: yes
List-Post: <mailto:ibogaine@mindvox.com>
List-Help: <mailto:ibogaine-help@mindvox.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:ibogaine-unsubscribe@mindvox.com>
List-Subscribe: <mailto:ibogaine-subscribe@mindvox.com>
Delivered-To: mailing list ibogaine@mindvox.com
X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.1 required=4.0
X-Antivirus-MYDOMAIN-Mail-From: vector620022002@yahoo.com via
tanelorn.mindvox.com
X-Antivirus-MYDOMAIN: 1.25-st-qms
(Clear:RC:0(68.142.198.156):SA:0(0.1/4.0):. Processed in 7.079206 secs
Process 2030)
Return-Path: ibogaine-return-23248-billjohnson6=sympatico.ca@mindvox.com
X-OriginalArrivalTime: 03 Apr 2006 23:31:34.0645 (UTC)
FILETIME=[BEDB7A50:01C65776]

More Sara 🙂

http://saraglatt.blogspot.com/2006/04/sara-glatt-iboga-ibogaine-treatment-in.html

Monday, April 03, 2006
Sara Glatt & Iboga, ibogaine treatment in Holland

The following is a litteral transcript of an exchange of opinions
between myself and Sara Glatt that recently took place in e-mails. My
reasons for posting this expose are because I feel I have been done a
great injustice by Sara while attempting to help her, financialy and
helping her around the house, cooking, cleaning, clearing the garden
etc.

Admittedly differences of opinion are bound to occurr while working
with entheogenic substances. Below are the results of attempts to
resolve these differences and to reestablish the friendship and respect
that I truly felt for Sara. I have many criticisms of the way she
conducts her bussiness: treating people with drug dependencies with an
iboga extract. I have however never thought of Sara as a person who is
less than completely sincere, however my opinion has changed following
this exchange and I leave this message as a warning to those
considering submitting to iboga treatment at her home. Iboga treatment
is probably the most powerful entheogenic treatment available today,
and can in some cases lead to very long recovery periods. In many cases
although dependency and craving are substantialy alleviated, addicts
will find themselves returning to the use of drugs soon enough because
the therapy given by Sara is insufficient as a means of working out
personal psychological problems, which more often than not require
psychotherapy. I hope all those considering this treatment will think
twice before taking iboga.

D Waterman

Dear Daniel,
I would appreciate any information you are able to send me regarding
Iboga treatment. I will be happy to have any information regarding
where, when, and how much?

Sincerely,

Name deleted.

Dear Rick, I have forwarded your request to Sara, who is the only
person I know of specificaly qualified to administer Iboga. I hope she
will contact you soon. Sara is 100% bonafide and you can trust her…

Good luck

Daniel

Sara:

Thanks, best wishes always,

Sara

Dear Sara,
As you can see neither my respect for you, nor my friendship have
diminished over time, but I have to say that now I too am disappointed.
Misunderstandings between friends happen and it shouldn’t be the end of
the friendship. Whatever happened back then is in the past. I never
meant to hurt you or to do anything to hurt your interests. I am
outspoken and some people may take that the wrong way, which says more
about who they are than about me. I consider you a good friend, or
considered, until I felt you were not being entirely sincere with me
about some things. Where two people argue there are always two causes
you know that.

I don’t want to go back to the past, today life is different for me and
for you too. I just want to let you know that I think of you and miss
you.

Daniel

Sara: thanks and I appriciate that a lot, I’m working very hard and
have very little time for socializing. best wishes,

Sara

Sara: thank you for sharing you feeling with me, I would like to get
some clarity about, what have I done wrong to you? please let me know.

kind regards,
Sara

Daniel:
Sara you have done nothing wrong to me, or else I would not be writing
to you at all. Something must have gone wrong however: we stopped
talking.

It felt like you accused me of having scared away Chandra with my
e-mails. I felt on the other hand that you had in some way asked me to
help get together people for a ceremony with him, and that you didn’t
yourself have enough people to make it worthwhile. When Chandra’s wife
was making the arrangements with me she was totally impractical. Yana
and Harald from Germany have had exactly the same experience with her,
so I feel justified in my conviction that there is something wrong with
the way she expected us to organise the work and to receive all the
financial benefits themselves (and the work would have been much more
expensive than our work here). These are clearly people who are in it
for the money. She got insulted and decided to stay away. Now I have
the feeling you blame me for this, but I seem to remember asking you
whether you would like me to help arrange this visit (I thought you
don’t have enough people to make it work). I feel that much of the
confusion has to do with these two things, the quite sudden request to
help organise an ayahuasca session for someone else who was working for
financial interest and the fact that I found out from Emy that you
planned to work with ayahuasca, before I found out from you. Both these
things are not things you did to me, but they are signals of
non-communication.

Sara, I have had a lot of experience of the trouble that people have in
ayahuasca ceremonies. Those problems are very different from what
happens during an iboga session: there you firstly have one on one
communication, and secondly the journey is much deeper. In ayahuasca
work part of the therapy is in the human interaction and so there are
projections. In psychology the term for this is transference, the
patient transfers feelings to the therapist (and obviously sometimes
the other way round) In psychotherapy the therapist can use this
relationship to the advantage of the therapy, for example he can read
something about the patients background in the way the patient is
hostile or solicitous to him. Ayahuasca work brings up many of such
feelings, because the participant is awake, in a group, active.

I want to make ayahuasca sessions that are genuinely healing and
therapeutic, as I have now begun to do both here and in Israel. That
argument at your home was the moment when I realised that the problems
I was having with the control of the session was not one of being a
‘control freak’ (which is a projection) but of not controlling enough.
In Israel the work has been much more structured and I feel justified
in preparing groups according to the psychology that I feel underlies
and justifies this type of work. As always, communication and straight
speaking are the key to maintaining honest and sincere relations both
within this work and in daily life.

I am not angry at you. I discontinued the work at your home to protect
you from the feelings that were flying around at the time. I am sorry
if you were hurt by what happened but when things get out of hand, and
they often do, there is nothing we can do except examine what we could
have done ourselves to make sure they don’t do again.

I don’t know whether this letter will clear up anything between you and
me Sara. There are no bad feelings here on my side. We should have a
drink together. I have an excellent ayahuasca made by myself and
Naftalie Hershler in my fathers back garden, in the traditional way, no
more powders. Friendship should not be that easy to destroy.

Love

Daniel

Dear Daniel,
first of all, I wanted to have a female group for Aya. and that is what
I told Emy. on the other hand it is at my home and I feel that I can
invite who I like to. You said very clear that day that you decided to
stop with giving ceremonies, that’s why I wanted to invite Chandra in
the first place. anyways, Aya. doesn’t doe me much and I never had a
vision that excited me to continue this work. I feel that you are an
abusive person and that’s why I stoped speaking to you.

I never intented to stop my friendship to you but I don’t like to be in
a company of someone who is acting abusive to me. if someone is doing
things impractically or for material intention,it’s their own karma
that meets with them.

I also have changed and don’t need extra baggage of being blamed for
anything, what I do at my home is my own business and I have no need
for any ceremony here, when it can go out of hand. I don’t connect to
any religion or trying to convert anybody into my world or prove
anything,or say one thing and do another.

kind regards,

Sara

Dear Sara,
I answered your last letter in the expectation that we could
communicate about things without blaming, however you have raised a few
issues that I would appreciate you clearing up. What do you mean by:

I feel that you are an abusive person and that’s why I stoped speaking
to you.

How have I abused you?

What does this mean:

I don’t connect to any religion or trying to convert anybody into my
world or prove anything,or say one thing and do another.

Are you saying you think I connect to some religion or am trying to
convert people? Or that I say one thing and do another? It sounds as if
you are doing what you are accusing me of: blaming me for something.
Obviously there is more here than meets the eye.

I feel like we are talking a different language Sara. As you see I
understand perfectly that you have no need for any ceremony that can
get out of hand (neither do I by the way) and wished to protect you
from that. It seems however that you must be blaming me for my part in
the argument with Cat, since I cannot be responsible for how she
behaved. If that is so, I agree with you, and it is a lesson I have
learned. As I said I apologise for my role in that. Sara what more can
I do to repair the damage. It seems that whatever I say to you just is
making things worse.

In any meeting between two people there is as much the challenge of
friendship as a possibility to learn something (that makes the
relationship or friendship worthwhile) I appreciate the time you have
taken to answer my letters, however at this time I am asking myself
whether there is any point: is any progress being made? Has anything
become clear to you through this, or have bad feelings been resolved?
Or am I just a person who you can conveniently project your own
feelings onto now?

I am sorry Sara, that for all the best wishes in the world this
friendship and respect that I feel for you cannot grow without a
deepening of awareness on both sides. If you are prepared to just leave
the past for what it is, that is one thing…but now you have brought
up topics that need to be talked about if we want to resolve anything,
and I don’t really know whether you want to do this or not. How can
there ever be a deepening of awareness without confrontation Sara,
there are always the things inside us that we are unwilling to see, it
is others who confront us with those things.

Love light and wisdom on you path

Daniel

Dear Daniel,
well I understand you wanted to communicate with me. we had an
agreement when you came here to do the Aya.ceremony, you gave me a
bottle saying this is 4 doses cost 40 euros each, then you looked at me
as if you wanted to kill me because I was going to invite chandra, so I
didn’t say anything after you have been agressive with Cat. and not
resonable with Joyce. instead of keeping our agreement that I would get
so many % of the income, for using my facility. the Aya. that you sold
to me much too expesive wasn’t worth drinking, not for my client nor
for me, we didn’t feel a thing, it is money gone down the drain. you
never asked me how was that Aya. I also could have made the tea it
wouldn’t have cost a 1/4 of what you charged me
and I would have more then what you sold to me for 160 euros. you gave
it to me at first without charging anything, me thinking “Oh how
kind”then you said, “Oh but that’s worth that much then you will not
get any money of me this time,” you were upset with me for wanting to
do a ladies session with chandra, but you didn’t have a good reason to
be,I will not do Aya. with anybody in my home, there will be no “Master
Ayahuscha here”. and if I like to do Aya. I will do it myself. that’s
because I lost trust in people telling one thing but when it comes to
it they don’t walk their talk.

then you came to tell me that I wasn’t a good researcher because I
don’t keep Data’s, i felt it was more about yourself importance by
criticism towards me and be little me. then about visiting me as a
friend or coming to help me in the graden.

I don’t need you to be projecting my feelings,if I have any bad feeling
about anything it is my piece of cake, I have lost trust and that’s all
there is to it, not only in you but in “Humanity”, it is not you to
blame that we live in materialistic world were power, self importance
and money are the role players and the spirit is lost, that’s the
projection of the time we live in.

kind regards,
Sara

Daniel:

Sara now you are telling things that you never even mentioned to me.
You got some impression from me but you never checked whether that
impression was correct. I understand your reasoning however you were
jumping to conclusions: you looked at me as if you wanted to kill me?
You really believe this Sara? Come on…. aren’t we supposed to be even
a little spiritually evolved. Sara in all truth you make an impression
of someone whose trust is all too easily destroyed. You have no faith
in humanity? Thats a really heavy trip to lay on anyone. This has
nothing to do with me. I was not aggresive with Cat, she hit me if you
will remember. Secondly Joyce ran away instead of talking to me, after
she took offense at something she overheard me say to someone else that
was none of her business. At not time did I try to prevent her from
leaving and she gave me no opportunity to talk about things she just
walked off, leaving a big stink of conceit and making Cat go into a
hysterical mood. I never tried to conceal anything from you about my
problems with Cat, and I told you that I hit her once, but I did not do
that in your home even after she hit me. I learned that lesson, but Cat
obviously did not, and now how can you blame me for being aggressive to
her? Are you saying women cannot be aggressive?

Out of all the sessions I gave at your home I always gave you a good
share of the income. When you asked me for ayahuasca I gave you what I
was using in my sessions, and I did not charge you more than I have
charged for participation in my sessions. I admit there was a problem
with that particular type of ayahuasca, made from extract. For some
reason some people feel more from it than others, and I have stopped
working with it and only use the raw materials now, however that was
what I was using then, it worked very powerfully for me remember? There
was no intention there to rip you off. As you may also remember I came
back to your home a week after that session to repair your window and
also to see you. You made no mention of your feelings about that
ayahuasca.

By the way, Naftalie worked with our new ayahuasca in Israel and nobody
felt a thing. It almost provoked an argument because he had charged
money for the session. Just drinking the ayahuasca is not the whole
story, and I have taken particular pains to remind both you and
everyone who has participated in my sessions of this fact: ayahuasca is
-ritual + ayahuasca + singing/dancing-. You yourself have told me that
you have a special relationship with the Iboga, why should such a
special relationship not exist for ayahuasca as well? Of course it
does. The effects can only manifest properly under specific conditions
and you are obviously not yet able to create those conditions.

Sara you are still full of blame and grievances, and many of them are
not really my bussiness, they have to do with a general way you take
things. I gladly helped you clean up the garden, cook, clear the home,
move the glass laboratory gear. There was no profit motive there just
friendship. Sure I am critical about the way you do things, though I
was just letting you hear my opinion, how you do things is indeed your
bussiness, and not mine, and certainly not a reason to think less of
you.

As big and shining as your heart is, you are also making yourself
really small, by carrying this grievance against the world around and
pretending it is not so. I wish that I could take away that pain, or
show you what you are doing. You are depriving yourself of a lot of
help and support in this way. I had no intention of sabotaging you or
your work, or disturbing your home, I just wanted to help you in any
way that I could and I felt some common intention in our work.

I cannot be your friend if I cannot speak my heart, without you taking
my words as an attack of some sort. It is up to you to take those words
whichever way you choose and there is a choice there. Why should I be
any less a friend for having criticised you a little? You think I would
even bother if I didn’t care?

Lets leave this discussion a little now. I don’t particularly want to
get into a yes no this that debate with you, its exactly the kind of
stuff that was going on between me and Cat and I have no desire to
continue doing it. The first words of the Santo Daime are -examine you
conscience- If each of us does this and we still find friendship and
love there that’s great, but if all we find is blame and pain, then
there is till work to be done, and I cannot do that for you just as you
cannot do it for me. Take care,

Love

Daniel

Sara:

Hi Roger my king, in the below email Daniel addmit that the Aya. wasn’t
good. he thinks that if I sing and dance and do as he said I may will
get a vision. just lots of bullshit, if it wasn’t the lady’s business
why would he speak about those things in her and other’s company? after
all be here and now, not talk shit about nobody unless it’s a warrning
about dangerous stuff. if he didn’t have a loud arrument with Joyce
then Cat would had the need to be upset. the window he repaired he
broke in the first place, while knocking at the door window with his
keys in an irritating way, while the back door was open and he just
could get in anyways. this is very well written of Daniel, but he is in
cloud kukuland. anyways, I thought you should know about the Aya.
quality first hand.

love you much,
xxx

Sara

You know Sara, the things you are saying in this letter here prove only
one thing: you need to really grow up and stop behaving like a baby.
Everyone on the whole internet knows that ayahuasca only works together
with singing and here you are denying it.

Please lets stop writing, enough stupidity in the world already without
you and me contributing to it both,

Dooeeeeee!

Sara:

Dat’s right, dooeeei,my kids said that too. I didn’t like to write the
same thing twice, I also had enough of bullshiting. now You know that
my friend who took the Aya. with me thought I was cheeting him with
giving him the wrong stuff, charging money for bullshit. he was upset
and me too, there was no Dancing or singing with other shamans and it
did work then,there are many reports on own use of Aya. without a
shaman, that DMT worked but no for everyone the same. they not all do
it your way Daniel, but you know the spirit and the spirit knows you.

I have work lots and lots of hours with people for no charge at all,
and you know it too, you know it is hard for my finnacially and that’s
why I opened my house for Aya. ceremony, but charging me the same as
you would charge a total stranger is a pain, and then I did lost trust
in your real intentions of really helping me out then. now I know that
I souldn’t ask anything of anybody and that what ever pain I have
that’s my thing to work out not with some kind of spirit in the sky.
get real, Daniel, it hurt anyone’s feeling to be treated like a total
stranger when I was concidered to be your friend. well, you know my
side of the picture, just as you wanted to. maybe now you can project
your anger but no need to be defensive. this is happen for real at my
kitchen table, gossiping was not the right thing to do and when Joyce
made a point out of it, you were not respectful to her, so why would
you be respectful to me? this is when you are talking about bring peace
with Aya. what is past is past, yes. but when trust is lost the it
takes much more to gain it again. sorry about the harsh way of saying
things but that’s what they do in Group therapy these days.they call it
tough love.

beste,

Sara
posted by Huasquero @ 1:56 AM

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands:
http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html
[%]

\]=———————————————————————=[/

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html
[%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: “Alan Hehe” <a.h.veil68@hotmail.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] Found it
Date: April 3, 2006 at 11:53:55 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Dear Readers–

For those who care, my newest post–“the stuff in blue” is the e-mail I was looking for. The blue text I obviously copied and pasted from Nick’s own post…Now, did he, or did he not say what I said he did–or damn close. I rest my case. Best wishes and love to all the rest of you…and sorry about the misunderstanding, BiscuitBoy….I didn’t know your relationship with Ann. I must say, Nick probably is good at his job, if it’s lying, or telling quater-truths and pissin’ people off! I would like to have an encounter with him right now. And believe it or not, Nick, some of us “mind-y” (what a term, eh? Before Nick that’s one thing I’d never been called) folk can still dish out a superb ass kicking–especially one who is the youngest of four brothers and took up M.A.s to get my own back!!

Get MSN Messenger with FREE Video Conversation – the next best thing to being there! /]=———————————————————————=[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%] \]=———————————————————————=[/

From: “Alan Hehe” <a.h.veil68@hotmail.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] Napolean complex?
Date: April 2, 2006 at 9:46:51 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hey Everyone
Nick—I think Tiger made a very valid point about compassion and free will. Half the reason, I believe, that teens, especially, do drugs in the first place is because of the taboo placed on them! People do not like to be forced into anything, even if it may be “good” for them; furthermore, if there was good in whatever the person is being forced to do, that quality in invariably destroyed by the very process of force!
You are a scary person, Nick. Thank God that you aren’t in a position to force everyone into your ‘encounter therapy.” I can tell you that the encounter you had with me wouldn’t be good for you–although I could see how taking out all my repressed anger on you, instead of my punching bag, may be very theraputic for me, at least until the piggies arrived.
You also never responded to my e-mails…You made the statement that only people who are emotionally repressed would find any bliss in using opiates, and said you would like to hear another reason if I could find one. Well, I did–I sent you the medical article explaining why opiates cause bliss through various chemical interactions within the brain. Nothing to say about that?
I wish you could be put into a severe state of addiction, let you experience a good third-week methadone withdrawal, just for 24 hours…Then give you just enough to take away the very worst of the withdrawal, then start yelling at you and calling you a “fucking junkie” and telling you everything you’ve ever done wrong in your life (if you ever have, that is LOL). Then, after about an hour or two of this ask you a question: “would you like a little more methadone, or would you like to continue with the “encounter therapy”? Of course, never having experienced opiate withdrawal, you can’t know how positive I am and how funny such a situation would be to me, and a few others who disagree with your methods but have been thru the withdrawal experience. Personally, your techniques to me sound very similar to old fashioned torture and brain-washing techniques used to break-down prisoners…Do you put them in a hard-backed chair and shine a bright light in their face as well? LOL, just kidding….to a degree. How would you like to be forced to do heroin, turned into an addict against YOUR WILL? Maybe I think that would be good for you! Does that mean I should then be able to do it? Oh, how would it be good for you? Well, it would give you a better understanding of your priso–I mean patients.
Let me ask this: what do you think of American foreign policy? Do you think it’s right (because they believe they know what’s best for other countries) for them going around and setting legislation for these other countries?
Anyway, if a person is ready to face their deepest, innermost aspects of their personality and/or psyche, ibogaine seems to do just that, while at the same time eliminating much of the agony of withdrawal…That’s more like having one’s higher self, or God, or a spirit guide, show them what’s going on in their lives…And I believe such an experience as has authority….As opposed to you, Nick, just a human being, apparently with quite a few emotional problems of his own…normal, compassionate people don’t wish to force others to believe or participate in their own ‘movie’ of reality.
Wishing God would humble you…Sincerely, Alan.
.
From: “Nick Sandberg” <nick227@tiscali.co.uk>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Opiates
Date: Sun, 2 Apr 2006 10:24:07 +0100

—–Original Message—–
From: Tiger Lisa [mailto:tigerlisa@gmail.com]
Sent: 01 April 2006 13:44
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Opiates

Dear Nick,
Here’ the part I don’t understand.

You wrote,
Personally, my position is…I think rising awareness is GOOD. I would love to see more people in groups, going through their stuff, becoming more aware of their personal interior dynamic, and moving forward in life. But, sadly, I’m not in a position to compel people to do this.

Why would you ever want to COMPEL anyone to do ANYTHING? Do you really believe that would be useful, effective, helpful? Do you think people actually benefit from, and grow from, being FORCED to do anything?

That is a parent-child model of interaction (and not a particularly skillful one, IMO), and it’s going to reinforce childlike, rebellious and victim behavior (NOT self-awareness!) in the one so compelled, as well as reinforcing bullying behavior and disprespectful and righteous attitudes (NOT increased compassion or awareness) in the one doing the compelling. A “lose-lose” interaction–no one wins!

Myself, I believe CHOICE is the name of the game. With choice comes responsibility, self-responsibility and a loss of the victim consciousness that drives continued reactive and unconscious behavior.

So in a nutshell: Saying something (like awarenss) is GOOD is one thing, but it’s a far cry from that to say,”And I’d love to FORCE you all to be more aware! too bad I can’t!” I think that is the essence of what  *I* am having a problem with. Yes, awareness is good. I agree. Yes, I’d love to live in a more aware society, umm hmm. Then I read the next sentence and I’m brought up short.

We all need love, acceptance, compassion. Compassion is one of the most healing things going! Power and control, on the other hand, just get people’s backs up, thrust them into dysfunctional modes of thinking and perpetuate a lack of awareness all around.

Just my two cents,
Tiger

PS I bet if you took a shot of heroin, you would experience bliss! (not that I’m suggesting you do) I believe it is just how human beings are wired. We’ve all got the same neurotransmitters, more or less.

Hi Tiger,

Well, I seem to recall, from the days when I used to go to conferences and stuff, that studies have shown that only a small percentage of school kids who used heroin developed a habit. (Howard Parker in Sheffield, or something like that, about 1000 individuals studied). This is not quite the same as what you’re saying, I appreciate, but it shows that the drug of itself is not necessarily addicting. I don’t know if anyone knows what makes a difference but I’d be willing to bet that, psychologically, it relates strongly to “ego orientation” vs “underlying levels of feeling.” If you’ve developed a self-image that requires you to repress more feelings than the endogenous opiates in your body can do, then taking heroin is going to make you feel pretty good. I would personally say that this is very likely one psychological mechanism behind addiction. This would explain why so many addicts do come from relatively high trauma backgrounds. For, as kids, we learn that to “get things” and to “be popular” we need to be able to keep our feelings a bit under control, not just likely to collapse from overfeeling at any time.

With bliss, (or anxiety for that matter), these are experiential things and no neuroscientist can explain them beyond pointing a little at things that seem to be involved. What is clear is that the states are relative to one another. If you’re basically a happy person bliss is inevitably less attractive than if you’re an anxious person.

About awareness, yes, I would love to force everyone to be more aware! And, inevitably, it doesn’t really work like that! But that’s my position anyway. What to do? Yes, compassion is needed, sometimes a lot of it. Also, all the power and control at times. I’m not so busy with how I think society should be, or trying to like Understand the world, I just put my position out really. About choice, well, it seems like a great thing, for sure, but to me it’s a little the same as trying to push compassion at the expense of power. In philosophy or spirituality or whatever, some people believe that free will exists, others that the universe is entirely deterministic. Who the fuck knows? Both are cool viewpoints, and I personally wouldn’t just want to just trapped in just one of them.

Is it cool to allow someone you care about to carry on fucking their life up because you believe so much in their free will? Not for me! I like to have the guts to take a position. And, to be honest, it’s a little bit what I miss in this list, where half the time everyone seems to be talking it up all nice but actually underneath there are shed-loads of feelings. I don’t know if this says anything significant about ibogaine, or about the people who are attracted to administering it, or what. But I notice it.

Nick

With MSN Spaces email straight to your blog. Upload jokes, photos and more. It’s free! /]=———————————————————————=[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%] \]=———————————————————————=[/

From: “Guy Bragge” <guybragge@mweb.co.za>
Subject: [Ibogaine] Hi Bill
Date: April 4, 2006 at 1:29:09 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Bill looking forward to lunch. I am a similar age and have years of problems with almost all the substances. I have rehabbed and detoxed more times than I can remember. I have been aware of Ibo for about 8 years but I live in South Africa and could not find it or the right people. A couple of months ago I found some amazing people here and did the Ibo. I have been clean for almost 6 amazing weeks. I felt like Ibo was my last chance, in that I was close to giving up and giving in to the drugs. Ibogaine has changed my life. Before I did I was asking questions like, what if it doesn’t work etc. Well it did. Bill, you may have found the answer to your substance problems.
Best of luck
Guy
Ps where is lunch

From: Crooked Eye <iboganaut420@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] att: Jasen
Date: April 4, 2006 at 1:28:52 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I get the retard relay as well….

cm <cm67@optusnet.com.au> wrote:
hi jasen, my msgs are just getting totally screwed and my conversations are like 10 steps behind everyone. yours seem to be coming through ok. im getting them
anyway. i saw shaz today (tuesday) havent seen her for 3wks. when she saw me she had a huge smile on her face and gave me the biggest hug.
it felt really good when she told my how great i was looking and how proud she was and i should be. i really dont know if sharren, claude and yourself
understand the full effect your words of encouragement have on me and make even more determined to do my best. thankyou so much for your unfaultering support,
chi xo (did i just make that word up? who cares, im happier than ive been in ages and im sure it gets the point across)
—– Original Message —–
From: Jasen Chamoun
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Tuesday, April 04, 2006 8:11 AM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] not getting through….

Hello Callie,

Yes, I have the same thing happening here in Australia. When I sometimes send a post it takes a couple of days to get to the list and at times does
not get through at all. Also at times I don’t receive all the messages.

I hope your well.

love, Jasen
—– Original Message —– at times
From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Tuesday, April 04, 2006 4:34 AM
Subject: [Ibogaine] this list is messed up!

I have been getting some messages from postmaster saying messages delayed and/or undeliverable. Anyone else having this problem?
Some of the posts I am not getting. I read the replies you folks are writing but did not receive original message.
Callie

Talk is cheap. Use Yahoo! Messenger to make PC-to-Phone calls. Great rates starting at 1¢/min.

From: “Alan Hehe” <a.h.veil68@hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] RE: [Pornography,psychology,Choice,force,) 2 cents
Date: April 4, 2006 at 1:25:21 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I gotta take a piece of this one. Okay, Mr. Anti-choice, let me ask you this: do you eat meat? If not, then good for you. If so, have you ever though about the actual, truly painful, totally inhumane treatment we put animals through? And usually don’t think twice about it…It’s people like George Bush who make me wish sometimes that God would hurl an asteroid at us! It’s “God forbid one human foetus (who does not feel a thing if the abortion is done in a timely manner, according to the latest research, because their nervous system isn’t nearly fully developed) should perish, no matter if it was caused by a rape or is probably going to be born into alot of suffering–but while I’m on my high horse, cut me a piece o that cow off and cook it up! It’s sheer egotism that we believe that humans are so damned important, but it’s okay if we torture animals, ruin the planet, and make other people adhere to our beliefs!!! We’re not that important! And if you believe in a God and the soul, then you know that–if the foetus even has a soul yet, which I don’t believe it does..I believe the soul enters with the first breath, and leaves with the last–that baby is just going back into the arms of God! There is no death! And since they don’t experience pain, all it becomes is something for people like you to feel self righteous about! Personally, I think everyone should smoke pot, and would benefit from it (except for a few cases), but how would you like it if I MADE you smoke it? That is, if you don’t, and don’t like it. Or let’s say you eat meat, but I think it’s just as evil to do that as to allow abortions, so I outlawed meat–would that be okay with you? And the cliff analogy is just stupid–not the same thing at all. But yes, I think if a person is truly miserable, and wants to die, I would try to talk them out of it, but I would never stop them by force. That’s called LACK OF FREEDOM. And if we didn’t make mistakes, how would we ever learn? To be told something is wrong is one thing..you can tell a person, fire will burn you..but until they get burned, they will not truly understand, and that’s what life is all about–learning. No, I don’t like to see foetus’ abortions–I think prevention is the answer….But sometimes, I believe it is ‘the best choice’. If everyone like you had their way, there really would be NO ROOM AT ALL left!!! We’re already sooo over-populated! It’s like I heard some character say in a movie recently..”everybody’s kids are so special…it makes you wonder where all the normal adults come from”. Even God believes in freedom of choice! That’s why he gave us FREE WILL. You’re a Republican, aren’t you? And you probably think that war-mongering asshole of a President is the best-thing since sliced bread, eh? It’s okay to kill, as long as it’s not a precious child…even though that child may grow up to be The Son of Sam!  well…”take me by the ham, no good, no evil, no give a damn!”  And the Govt. is lying to you! About just about everything. Peace, love, and freedom. Life is too mysterious to take it so serious!

From:  “Billy J” <billjohnson6@sympatico.ca>
Reply-To:  ibogaine@mindvox.com
To:  ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject:  [Ibogaine] RE: [Pornography,psychology,Choice,force,) 2 cents
Date:  Sun, 02 Apr 2006 21:45:39 -0400
>Well It sounds like this place is really mixing it up so I would
>like to add a little REALITY TO YOU PRO CHOICERS, I am sure glad I
>was not an abortion’ althought I have had my moments.
>Yes My Mom was a young Mom and if she had a choice I think that I
>would have no Grandkids, or be babbleing on here.
>     I too have an attitude, It is about the only thing in this
>world that I really have control over.
>Tiger– How well did you do with making ALL your own Choices,
>Instead of doing what your were told to do? Not meant to be a shot
>at you personally, but I am with the Right or Wrong crowd- No such
>thing as grey.
>   I do know that some people may have grown up believing that wrong
>was right and right was wrong, but I Think that I pretty much knew
>when I was stepping out of line and doing wrong.
>It is (as most believe) My God , no not God, but My worldly given
>Right- to do wrong- It’s my life and if I want to screw it up then
>stay out of my way. And you know what I had a lot of sooo called
>friends that did just that WATCHED, AS i WAS Killing myself and
>ruining a lot of lifes.
>But O O O never no no no neverdare step on somebodys toes because
>you know what they have a choice, Just like those poor little Crack
>%$^&%$ Women that degrade themselves( and me myself) due to
>everybody. But Never No No Never dare tell somebody or force someone
>to get some help that they may never ever make it to on their own,
>due to something called “Pride” “Shame” “Guilt”
>Whatever holds them back. They may end up DEAD and it would be their
>own fault, because you know how STRONG us druggies are, and if that
>person dies because he had a choice to get help and refused or just
>couldn’t make it on his/her own and needed YOU (of course they
>didn’t tell you that).
>I am sorry but I BELIEVE that if you Love Someone or even care a
>little, and you see them walking off a cliff and YOU have an
>opportunity to stop them, and you don’t- Can you truelly say it was
>their own fault?
>Pornography- I never met too many Normal people that would find it
>neccesary to take their cloths off for the public to see. Totally
>wrong and if you had your own kids you might not think it too cool
>having your buddy beating off while checking out your little girl.
>Not nice eh Billy but P–sy T-ts are not meant for anyone except who
>they belong to and their mate.
>
>Bye For Now, That stuff is about the biggest trigger going for any
>downfall
>
>Bill
>—-Original Message Follows—-
>From: “Nick Sandberg” <nick227@tiscali.co.uk>
>Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
>To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
>Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Opiates
>Date: Sun, 2 Apr 2006 10:24:07 +0100
>MIME-Version: 1.0
>Received: from tomts21-srv.bellnexxia.net ([209.226.175.183]) by
>bay0-pamc1-f11.bay0.hotmail.com with Microsoft
>SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Sun, 2 Apr 2006 05:38:59 -0700
>Received: from toip5.bellnexxia.net ([209.226.175.88])          by
>tomts21-srv.bellnexxia.net          (InterMail vM.5.01.06.13
>201-253-122-130-113-20050324) with ESMTP          id
><20060402123858.HZPV14030.tomts21-srv.bellnexxia.net@toip5.bellnexxia.net>
>          for <billjohnson6@sympatico.ca>; Sun, 2 Apr 2006 08:38:58
>-0400
>Received: from tanelorn.mindvox.com (HELO mail.mindvox.com)
>([64.124.179.118])  by toip5.bellnexxia.net with ESMTP; 02 Apr 2006
>08:38:58 -0400
>Received: (qmail 16967 invoked by uid 513); 2 Apr 2006 08:38:55
>-0400
>Received: (qmail 16961 invoked by uid 514); 2 Apr 2006 08:38:55
>-0400
>X-Message-Info: moY6YVwXQ44WAJnUvaOEtK2hXKGagKAsshDbZwj7pSc=
>Mailing-List: contact ibogaine-help@mindvox.com; run by ezmlm
>Precedence: bulk
>X-No-Archive: yes
>List-Post: <mailto:ibogaine@mindvox.com>
>List-Help: <mailto:ibogaine-help@mindvox.com>
>List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:ibogaine-unsubscribe@mindvox.com>
>List-Subscribe: <mailto:ibogaine-subscribe@mindvox.com>
>Delivered-To: mailing list ibogaine@mindvox.com
>X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.3 required=4.0
>X-Antivirus-MYDOMAIN-Mail-From: nick227@tiscali.co.uk via
>tanelorn.mindvox.com
>X-Antivirus-MYDOMAIN: 1.25-st-qms
>(Clear:RC:0(212.74.114.37):SA:0(-2.3/4.0):. Processed in 2.781926
>secs Process 16953)
>X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true
>X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: AQAAAJ0kL0SDE4UI
>X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.6604 (9.0.2911.0)
>Return-Path:
>ibogaine-return-23233-billjohnson6=sympatico.ca@mindvox.com
>X-OriginalArrivalTime: 02 Apr 2006 12:38:59.0373 (UTC)
>FILETIME=[6A155DD0:01C65652]
>
>
>   —–Original Message—–
>   From: Tiger Lisa [mailto:tigerlisa@gmail.com]
>   Sent: 01 April 2006 13:44
>   To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
>   Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Opiates
>
>
>   Dear Nick,
>   Here’ the part I don’t understand.
>
>   You wrote,
>   Personally, my position is…I think rising awareness is GOOD. I
>would
>love to see more people in groups, going through their stuff,
>becoming more
>aware of their personal interior dynamic, and moving forward in
>life. But,
>sadly, I’m not in a position to compel people to do this.
>
>   Why would you ever want to COMPEL anyone to do ANYTHING? Do you
>really
>believe that would be useful, effective, helpful? Do you think
>people
>actually benefit from, and grow from, being FORCED to do anything?
>
>   That is a parent-child model of interaction (and not a
>particularly
>skillful one, IMO), and it’s going to reinforce childlike,
>rebellious and
>victim behavior (NOT self-awareness!) in the one so compelled, as
>well as
>reinforcing bullying behavior and disprespectful and righteous
>attitudes
>(NOT increased compassion or awareness) in the one doing the
>compelling. A
>”lose-lose” interaction–no one wins!
>
>   Myself, I believe CHOICE is the name of the game. With choice
>comes
>responsibility, self-responsibility and a loss of the victim
>consciousness
>that drives continued reactive and unconscious behavior.
>
>   So in a nutshell: Saying something (like awarenss) is GOOD is one
>thing,
>but it’s a far cry from that to say,”And I’d love to FORCE you all
>to be
>more aware! too bad I can’t!” I think that is the essence of what
>*I* am
>having a problem with. Yes, awareness is good. I agree. Yes, I’d
>love to
>live in a more aware society, umm hmm. Then I read the next sentence
>and I’m
>brought up short.
>
>   We all need love, acceptance, compassion. Compassion is one of
>the most
>healing things going! Power and control, on the other hand, just get
>people’s backs up, thrust them into dysfunctional modes of thinking
>and
>perpetuate a lack of awareness all around.
>
>   Just my two cents,
>   Tiger
>
>   PS I bet if you took a shot of heroin, you would experience
>bliss! (not
>that I’m suggesting you do) I believe it is just how human beings
>are wired.
>We’ve all got the same neurotransmitters, more or less.
>
>   Hi Tiger,
>
>   Well, I seem to recall, from the days when I used to go to
>conferences and
>stuff, that studies have shown that only a small percentage of
>school kids
>who used heroin developed a habit. (Howard Parker in Sheffield, or
>something
>like that, about 1000 individuals studied). This is not quite the
>same as
>what you’re saying, I appreciate, but it shows that the drug of
>itself is
>not necessarily addicting. I don’t know if anyone knows what makes a
>difference but I’d be willing to bet that, psychologically, it
>relates
>strongly to “ego orientation” vs “underlying levels of feeling.” If
>you’ve
>developed a self-image that requires you to repress more feelings
>than the
>endogenous opiates in your body can do, then taking heroin is going
>to make
>you feel pretty good. I would personally say that this is very
>likely one
>psychological mechanism behind addiction. This would explain why so
>many
>addicts do come from relatively high trauma backgrounds. For, as
>kids, we
>learn that to “get things” and to “be popular” we need to be able to
>keep
>our feelings a bit under control, not just likely to collapse from
>overfeeling at any time.
>
>   With bliss, (or anxiety for that matter), these are experiential
>things
>and no neuroscientist can explain them beyond pointing a little at
>things
>that seem to be involved. What is clear is that the states are
>relative to
>one another. If you’re basically a happy person bliss is inevitably
>less
>attractive than if you’re an anxious person.
>
>   About awareness, yes, I would love to force everyone to be more
>aware!
>And, inevitably, it doesn’t really work like that! But that’s my
>position
>anyway. What to do? Yes, compassion is needed, sometimes a lot of
>it. Also,
>all the power and control at times. I’m not so busy with how I think
>society
>should be, or trying to like Understand the world, I just put my
>position
>out really. About choice, well, it seems like a great thing, for
>sure, but
>to me it’s a little the same as trying to push compassion at the
>expense of
>power. In philosophy or spirituality or whatever, some people
>believe that
>free will exists, others that the universe is entirely
>deterministic. Who
>the fuck knows? Both are cool viewpoints, and I personally wouldn’t
>just
>want to just trapped in just one of them.
>
>   Is it cool to allow someone you care about to carry on fucking
>their life
>up because you believe so much in their free will? Not for me! I
>like to
>have the guts to take a position. And, to be honest, it’s a little
>bit what
>I miss in this list, where half the time everyone seems to be
>talking it up
>all nice but actually underneath there are shed-loads of feelings. I
>don’t
>know if this says anything significant about ibogaine, or about the
>people
>who are attracted to administering it, or what. But I notice it.
>
>   Nick
>
>
>
>
>
>/]=———————————————————————=[\
>[%] Ibogaine List Commands:
>http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
>
>\]=———————————————————————=[/
>
>

With MSN Spaces email straight to your blog. Upload jokes, photos and more. It’s free! /]=———————————————————————=[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%] \]=———————————————————————=[/

From: “Luke Christoffersen” <luke.christoffersen@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] (Sorta WAY OT!- semi-nuddie pics) Fw: slipper pix
Date: April 3, 2006 at 5:01:51 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Looks like a nice gig you got there Preston 🙂

On 4/2/06, Preston Peet <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com> wrote:
HI all,
Just thought I’d share the photos below. Hopefully they won’t clog up people’s boxes, and if they do I humbly apologize.
But I thought I’d share how I spend most weekends. These were taken Friday night while I was dj’ing Hot Box, the Slipper Room’s Friday night burlesque extravaganza, and unfortunately these photos don’t do the humor and talent credit. Still, some of these are quite good. (V dj’s every other Saturday now, for Mr. Choad’s Upstairs/Downstairs burlesque show, instead of each Saturday as she did for the last 3 years or so- and she isn’t in any of these shots, not being a dancer, even though she could probably clean up doing so.)
;-))
Anyway, hope everyone is having a good Sunday and not overtaxing themselves with worry, stress or the absolute weirdness about how some folk seem to think “abusive” language and behavior and “therapeutic” can, logically, fit together in any sane, rational treatment of addicts and drug abusers.
BTW, the girl with the tattoos (Peekaboo Point) is my pilates trainer.
And, though it isn’t obvious from the one photo of me in here, just to tie this in in a wee manner to the topic at hand, I am seriously baked to the gills during this particular evening’s event, so baked in fact that I had the most overwhelming headrush I’ve ever had on Friday night, at least since the first summer I ever smoked pot. After having taken a huge hit of the BEST EVER Strawberry Cough while crouched down behind the turntables out of sight of the packed house, I then stood up and whoa! Head Rush! I almost fell over and did in fact accidentally hit the fade switch during said blinding rush, and conked out the music for a few second because I couldn’t see anything nor could I hear through the high-pitched keening sound in my ears from the blood rushing (into? Out of?) my ears. When it first started, I thought for a second that the cd was screwing up or something and reached for the machine to do some finagling, only to find myself struck blind and deaf by the headrush. What causes this? Does anyone know the science behind this phenomenon, what causes a headrush I mean?
Anyway, enjoy the photos.
—–
“If God dropped acid, would he see people?”  ~Steven Wright

Peace, love and lotsof respect.
Preston Peet
ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor Underground- the Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations, Astonishing Archaeology and Hidden History
Editor Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Columnist HighTimes mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —–
From: ABuckit@aol.com
To:
Cc: ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Sent: Saturday, April 01, 2006 5:34 PM
Subject: Re: slipper pix

Allo D.T.

From last night.

If you would be most kind and pass these pictures onto the others, as I don’t have their emails. I have many more, these are a quick selection.
Also, Miss D.T., Are you getting my emails? You are on the list.
Again, a treat to see you last night, Much love

Adrian
From: “Sara Glatt” <sara119@xs4all.nl>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Sara on Dutch TV – NOVA ibogaine report
Date: April 4, 2006 at 1:22:35 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Thanks Vector,

Is there a direct download URL for this? I can view the realplayer
version but having problems with windows. What’s new there 😉

Allright Sara!!!!

.:vector:.

— HSLotsof@aol.com wrote:

In a message dated 3/25/06 11:40:15 AM, sara119@xs4all.nl writes:

this is on tonight here about the Iboga treatment.

best wishes,

Sara

http://www.novatv.nl/index.cfm?ln=nl&fuseaction=videoaudio.details&
reportage_id=4220

I asked one of my Dutch speaking friends to monitor the program and I

received a glowing report that follows. It would be very positive if
the Dutch were
to pick up the research. Very good work Sara.

Howard
*******************
This is a very positive pro-Ibogaine documentary. Nova also holds
high
regard in terms of scientific reporting – it’s excellent – you can be
really
stoked about this.

Leenders and Fromberg simply explain that yes Ibogaine really works,
there
is no doubt about it and Fromberg says it even has been proven in
pharmacological research done in Rotterdam (not sure which research
he’s
referring to). When asked about the “shady treatment settings” like
the ones
with Sara, Leenders says these settings are not shady at all. Where
there is
demand there is supply, and if the government doesn’t provide it
other
people will. He also says that Ibogaine is not a recreational
substance,
that the experience is really intense and should be done under proper
guidance.

It is the Ministry of Health that come out as the bad guys for not
studying
Ibogaine. The Ministry admits comparing Ibogaine to
Naltrexone-under-narcosis and they are saying that since Naltrexone
didn’t
work with cravings then Ibogaine would be doubtable in this
department as
well. They are somewhat vaguely saying that this now might be a wrong
assumption.

The documentary ends on the note saying that Ibogaine is not being
research
in Holland (and it really is making the Dutch government look like
idiots
because they mention this) and that it IS being researched in other
countries, like the USA and that conclusive, positive information is
expected within the next few years as to how/why it works.

Wow! Very, very cool documentary. Be stoked, very stoked! Leenders
and
Fromberg are 100+% behind Ibogaine, nothing but super-positive stuff
from
them; they are your allies.

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html
[%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: “Sara Glatt” <sara119@xs4all.nl>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Sara on Dutch TV – NOVA ibogaine report
Date: April 4, 2006 at 1:21:29 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Is there a direct download URL for this? I can view the realplayer
version but having problems with windows. What’s new there 😉

Allright Sara!!!!

.:vector:.

— HSLotsof@aol.com wrote:

In a message dated 3/25/06 11:40:15 AM, sara119@xs4all.nl writes:

this is on tonight here about the Iboga treatment.

best wishes,

Sara

http://www.novatv.nl/index.cfm?ln=nl&fuseaction=videoaudio.details&
reportage_id=4220

I asked one of my Dutch speaking friends to monitor the program and I

received a glowing report that follows. It would be very positive if
the Dutch were
to pick up the research. Very good work Sara.

Howard
*******************
This is a very positive pro-Ibogaine documentary. Nova also holds
high
regard in terms of scientific reporting – it’s excellent – you can be
really
stoked about this.

Leenders and Fromberg simply explain that yes Ibogaine really works,
there
is no doubt about it and Fromberg says it even has been proven in
pharmacological research done in Rotterdam (not sure which research
he’s
referring to). When asked about the “shady treatment settings” like
the ones
with Sara, Leenders says these settings are not shady at all. Where
there is
demand there is supply, and if the government doesn’t provide it
other
people will. He also says that Ibogaine is not a recreational
substance,
that the experience is really intense and should be done under proper
guidance.

It is the Ministry of Health that come out as the bad guys for not
studying
Ibogaine. The Ministry admits comparing Ibogaine to
Naltrexone-under-narcosis and they are saying that since Naltrexone
didn’t
work with cravings then Ibogaine would be doubtable in this
department as
well. They are somewhat vaguely saying that this now might be a wrong
assumption.

The documentary ends on the note saying that Ibogaine is not being
research
in Holland (and it really is making the Dutch government look like
idiots
because they mention this) and that it IS being researched in other
countries, like the USA and that conclusive, positive information is
expected within the next few years as to how/why it works.

Wow! Very, very cool documentary. Be stoked, very stoked! Leenders
and
Fromberg are 100+% behind Ibogaine, nothing but super-positive stuff
from
them; they are your allies.

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html
[%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: “cm” <cm67@optusnet.com.au>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] att: Jasen
Date: April 4, 2006 at 1:35:00 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

hi jasen, my msgs are just getting totally screwed and my conversations are like 10 steps behind everyone. yours seem to be coming through ok. im getting them
anyway. i saw shaz today (tuesday) havent seen her for 3wks. when she saw me she had a huge smile on her face and gave me the biggest hug.
it felt really good when she told my how great i was looking and how proud she was and i should be. i really dont know if sharren, claude and yourself
understand the full effect your words of encouragement have on me and make even more determined to do my best. thankyou so much for your unfaultering support,
chi xo (did i just make that word up? who cares, im happier than ive been in ages and im sure it gets the point across)
—– Original Message —–
From: Jasen Chamoun
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Tuesday, April 04, 2006 8:11 AM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] not getting through….

Hello Callie,

Yes, I have the same thing happening here in Australia. When I sometimes send a post it takes a couple of days to get to the list and at times does
not get through at all. Also at times I don’t receive all the messages.

I hope your well.

love, Jasen
—– Original Message —– at times
From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Tuesday, April 04, 2006 4:34 AM
Subject: [Ibogaine] this list is messed up!

I have been getting some messages from postmaster saying messages delayed and/or undeliverable. Anyone else having this problem?
Some of the posts I am not getting. I read the replies you folks are writing but did not receive original message.
Callie

From: captkirk <captkirk@clear.net.nz>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Why Be Mean?
Date: April 4, 2006 at 1:15:23 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Oooooooo go on then!!!  Giz a loook then!!!
(I’m bored can you tell???)
back to the book
“once upon a time….in a land far far removed from
reality…….”

—– Original Message Follows —–
I was teasin, you should see when I am mean….

captkirk <captkirk@clear.net.nz> wrote: lol billy, I
thought that was rather tame compared with “other emails
which shall remain un-named”…………. Feels like PMS
to me (Putting Up with Men’s Shit….). Ok, I’ll go read a
book now….. ;o)
“Scientology for Dummies”

—– Original Message Follows —–

If Us druggies need scientoligists what does the rest of
you need?

Please be nice or go read a book>
Thanks and please just apoligise for being mean (without
excuse) and move  on, It is easy to be mean – antbody
can, Try to be nice when you are feeling  mean,
When you can do that then you can call yourself a MAN.
Good Night Ya All

Billy Boy

—-Original Message Follows—-
From: Crooked Eye
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Pot calling the Kettle Black?
Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2006 20:36:38 -0700 (PDT)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Received: from tomts3-srv.bellnexxia.net
([209.226.175.115]) by  bay0-pamc1-f11.bay0.hotmail.com
with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Mon,  3 Apr 2006
20:37:12 -0700 Received: from toip5.bellnexxia.net
([209.226.175.88])          by
tomts3-srv.bellnexxia.net (InterMail
vM.5.01.06.13 201-253-122-130-113-20050324) with ESMTP
id

<20060404033816.JVE19199.tomts3-srv.bellnexxia.net@toip5.b
ellnexxia.net> for ; Mon, 3 Apr 2006
23:38:16 -0400 Received: from tanelorn.mindvox.com (HELO
mail.mindvox.com)  ([64.124.179.118])  by
toip5.bellnexxia.net with ESMTP; 03 Apr 2006 23:37:11
-0400 Received: (qmail 12301 invoked by uid 513); 3 Apr
2006 23:37:08 -0400 Received: (qmail 12292 invoked by
uid 514); 3 Apr 2006 23:37:08 -0400 X-Message-Info:
moY6YVwXQ45HxveqJh1soofSX6OdRulhteE0rfSMVvk=
Mailing-List:
contact ibogaine-help@mindvox.com; run by ezmlm
Precedence: bulk X-No-Archive: yes
List-Post:
List-Help:
List-Unsubscribe:
List-Subscribe:
Delivered-To:
mailing list ibogaine@mindvox.com X-Spam-Status: No,
hits=0.2 required=4.0
X-Antivirus-MYDOMAIN-Mail-From:
iboganaut420@yahoo.com via  tanelorn.mindvox.com
X-Antivirus-MYDOMAIN: 1.25-st-qms
(Clear:RC:0(68.142.200.98):SA:0(0.2/4.0):.  Processed in
5.028593 secs Process 12219) Return-Path:

ibogaine-return-23261-billjohnson6=sympatico.ca@mindvox.co
m X-OriginalArrivalTime: 04 Apr 2006 03:37:12.0775 (UTC)
FILETIME=[0F77A570:01C65799]

I think maybe the scientologists with there meters and
stuff could cure all  you druggies!!

Alan Hehe  wrote:   Nick…you are
soooo full of  shit. That’s exactly what you said, and
you’re lucky I don’t have the e-mail  anymore or I’d
shove it down your lying, cyber throat!!!!!
Come on..Preston, someone…does anyone have that
email, the one  where I posted the medical info I think
might have his actual statement on  it….I would
appreciate if someone could send it back to me. Almost
word  for word what you said was (grammatical errors
included) “Opiate is an  analgesic. It stops feeling.
Only someone with alot of repressed emotions  receive
bliss from analgesics, like opiates….” (you also said
something  about ego-orientation)…then you said “if
you can think of another reason  I’d love to hear it.”
Now I’m positive that I want nothing more to do with
you…so let sleeping dogs lie, or I swear I will rip
you apart…and that  way, you won’t have to “be
manipulated anymore!” You dug your own grave with  a
drstically stupid statement, and you’re too full of
yourself to just say…”hey, I was wrong”. Now, for the
second time, BYE!!!!!

———————————
From: “Nick Sandberg”
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To:
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Pot calling the Kettle Black?
Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2006 08:53:07 +0100

—–Original Message—–
From: Alan Hehe [mailto:a.h.veil68@hotmail.com]
Sent: 02 April 2006 17:32
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] Pot calling the Kettle Black?

Hey…uh, Biscuit Boy,
What’s the matter? Do you NOT like my debate with
Nick, or do you just  not like the fact that Ann paid me
a compliment? Do you agree with Nick’s  idea that only
emotionally repressed individuals receive any sort of
high from opiates? If you’ve got something to say, why
not come out and say it?  Have you never done opiates?
Or any drugs? What gives you the right to judge  Ann?
Personally I don’t care if her comment was influened by
a whole gram of  Mexican brown! Better a nice compliment
from someone high, than a nasty one  from someone sober!
Now, if I’ve misconstrued your intent, I apologize, but
I would appreciate a logical explanation rather than a
low-blow insinuation.

Hi Alan,
only emotionally repressed individuals receive any
sort of high from  opiates – I did not make such an
extreme statement. I said there was a  relationship
between the two, that the bliss experienced on opiates
relates  to the degree of ego-repressed feeling. You
grab stuff, exaggerate it to an  extreme position and
then criticize your own interpretation. Welcome to the
wonderful world of manipulation! I see a great career in
media or politics opening up before you.
BTW, this IS the classic trait for someone who is
using belief patterns to  hold down feelings. If
something challenges the belief then repressed  feelings
start to rise “OMG, what if I’m really like so!” or
whatever and the mind acts to push the feelings back
down again, rearranging what is said  into something it
can criticize and expel. Frankly, I also see myself
doing  it at times! Letting go of beliefs can be a
toughie. Nick

———————————

From:  biscuitboy714@aol.com
Reply-To:  ibogaine@mindvox.com
To:  ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject:  Re: [Ibogaine] Opiate effects
Date:  Sun, 02 Apr 2006 11:05:09 -0400
Yea Ann, tell us how much heroin you shot last night.
He He I
couldn’t help it. I love you Mamma           Randy

—–Original Message—–
From: Alan Hehe
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Sat, 01 Apr 2006 11:15:03 -0500
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Opiate effects

Hey Ann,

Thank you for the compliment…Somebody’s got to
try to counter
his crazy ideas with some sense. Feel free to write me
anytime..I
really enjoy talking to people on this list and
hearing their
stories…Oh, don’t tell anyone, but I studied
semantics and debate
in high school! Just kidding…about the hush hush, as
anyone will
be able to read this. Oh, heck–LOL! I’m 37, and High
school is but
a distant, mainly unplesant experience…except when I
would catch
my English teacher making grammatical or syntactical
mistakes,
before they moved me into an A.P. college-level
class…And no, I’m
not conceited, either..but I do enjoy debate! Everyone
has certain
qualities at which they excel, and others at which
they are
deficient. I make up for my skill in English by being
a retard in
math! Plus, I couldn’t be that smart or I wouldn’t be
here, looking
for a way out of the hell-hole I dug for myself….and
despite
having a really shitty childhood, I take complete
responsibility for
my current position in
life……………………………….Wishing you
the best in
all…….Alan.

——–
From: “Ann B. Mullikin”
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To:
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Opiate effects
Date: Sat, 1 Apr 2006 10:04:20 -0500

No, I am not Nick but…..

Bravo, Alan.  I surely do appreciate the way you use
your brain –
TO THINK AND TO REASON.  Its good stuff.  Keep on.

ann
think@francomm.com

—– Original Message —–
From: Alan Hehe
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Friday,  March 31, 2006 4:49 PM
Subject: [Ibogaine] Opiate effects

Hey Nick,

I wanted to say that, although I was basically
right, I believe
(and according to the research I’ve done) about the
reason opiates
cause pleasure, I wasn’t entirely correct about the
natural opiates
(dopamine,etc) having an effect on mood. They do have
an affect on
mood..but then again, so does euphoria..in fact, it
could be said to
be a mood unto itself. Here’s a little medical info
for: Opiates
(heroin, morphine, etc.)

The human body naturally produces its own
opiate-like substances
and uses them as neurotransmitters. These substances
include
endorphins, enkephalins, and dynorphin, often
collectively known as
endogenous opioids.  Endogenous opioids modulate our
reactions to
painful stimuli. They also regulate vital functions
such as hunger
and thirst and are involved in mood control, immune
response, and
other processes.

The reason that opiates such as heroin and morphine
affect us so
powerfully is that these exogenous substances bind to
the same
receptors as our endogenous opioids. There are three
kinds of
receptors widely distributed throughout the brain: mu,
delta, and
kappa receptors.

These receptors, through second messengers, influence
the likelihood
that ion channels will open, which in certain cases
reduces the
excitability of neurons. This reduced excitability is
the likely
source of the euphoric effect of opiates and appears
to be mediated
by the mu and delta  receptors.

This euphoric effect also appears to involve another
mechanism in
which the GABA-inhibitory interneurons of the ventral
tegmental area
come into play. By attaching to their mu receptors,
exogenous
opioids reduce the amount of GABA released (see
animation).
Normally, GABA reduces the amount of dopamine released
in the
nucleus accumbens. By inhibiting this inhibitor, the
opiates
ultimately increase the amount of dopamine produced
and the amount
of pleasure felt.

Chronic consumption of opiates inhibits the production
of cAMP, but
this inhibition is offset in the long run by other
cAMP production
mechanisms. When no opiates are available, this
increased cAMP
production capacity comes to the fore and results in
neural
hyperactivity and the sensation of craving the  drug.

——–
Make FREE PC-to-PC calls with MSN Messenger. Get it
now!

/]=—————————————————–
—————-=
[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands:
http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]

)=—————————————————–
—————-=
[/

——–
Find just what you’re after with the new, more
precise MSN Search
– try it now!

/]=—————————————————–
—————-=
[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands:
http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]

)=—————————————————–
—————-=
[/

/]=—————————————————–
—————-=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands:
http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]

)=—————————————————–
—————-=[/

———————————
Be one of the first to try Windows Live Mail

/]=——————————————————-
————–=[\  [%] Ibogaine List Commands:
http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html  [%]

)=——————————————————-
————–=[/

———————————
Play Trivia with MSN Messenger for a chance to win an
XBOX� 360 prize  pack!�

/]=——————————————————-
————–=[\   [%] Ibogaine List Commands:
http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html  [%]

)=——————————————————-
————–=[/

———————————
Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. PC-to-Phone calls for
ridiculously low rates.

/]=——————————————————-
————–=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands:
http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]

)=——————————————————-
————–=[/

/]=——————————————————-
————–=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands:
http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]

)=——————————————————-
————–=[/

———————————
Talk is cheap. Use Yahoo! Messenger to make PC-to-Phone
calls.  Great rates starting at 1¢/min.

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: Crooked Eye <iboganaut420@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Why Be Mean?
Date: April 4, 2006 at 1:12:13 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I was teasin, you should see when I am mean….

captkirk <captkirk@clear.net.nz> wrote:
lol billy, I thought that was rather tame compared with
“other emails which shall remain un-named”………….
Feels like PMS to me (Putting Up with Men’s Shit….).
Ok, I’ll go read a book now…..
;o)
“Scientology for Dummies”

—– Original Message Follows —–
>
> If Us druggies need scientoligists what does the rest of
> you need?
>
> Please be nice or go read a book>
> Thanks and please just apoligise for being mean (without
> excuse) and move on, It is easy to be mean – antbody can,
> Try to be nice when you are feeling mean,
> When you can do that then you can call yourself a MAN.
> Good Night Ya All
>
> Billy Boy
>
>
> —-Original Message Follows—-
> From: Crooked Eye
> Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
> To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
> Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Pot calling the Kettle Black?
> Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2006 20:36:38 -0700 (PDT)
> MIME-Version: 1.0
> Received: from tomts3-srv.bellnexxia.net
> ([209.226.175.115]) by bay0-pamc1-f11.bay0.hotmail.com
> with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Mon, 3 Apr 2006
> 20:37:12 -0700 Received: from toip5.bellnexxia.net
> ([209.226.175.88]) by tomts3-srv.bellnexxia.net
> (InterMail vM.5.01.06.13
> 201-253-122-130-113-20050324) with ESMTP id
> <20060404033816.JVE19199.tomts3-srv.bellnexxia.net@toip5.b
> ellnexxia.net>
> for ; Mon, 3 Apr 2006
> 23:38:16 -0400 Received: from tanelorn.mindvox.com (HELO
> mail.mindvox.com) ([64.124.179.118]) by
> toip5.bellnexxia.net with ESMTP; 03 Apr 2006 23:37:11
> -0400 Received: (qmail 12301 invoked by uid 513); 3 Apr
> 2006 23:37:08 -0400 Received: (qmail 12292 invoked by uid
> 514); 3 Apr 2006 23:37:08 -0400 X-Message-Info:
> moY6YVwXQ45HxveqJh1soofSX6OdRulhteE0rfSMVvk=
Mailing-List:
> contact ibogaine-help@mindvox.com; run by ezmlm
> Precedence: bulk X-No-Archive: yes
> List-Post:
> List-Help:
> List-Unsubscribe:
> List-Subscribe:
> Delivered-To:
> mailing list ibogaine@mindvox.com X-Spam-Status: No,
> hits=0.2 required=4.0 X-Antivirus-MYDOMAIN-Mail-From:
> iboganaut420@yahoo.com via tanelorn.mindvox.com
> X-Antivirus-MYDOMAIN: 1.25-st-qms
> (Clear:RC:0(68.142.200.98):SA:0(0.2/4.0):. Processed in
> 5.028593 secs Process 12219) Return-Path:
>
ibogaine-return-23261-billjohnson6=sympatico.ca@mindvox.co
> m X-OriginalArrivalTime: 04 Apr 2006 03:37:12.0775 (UTC)
> FILETIME=[0F77A570:01C65799]
>
> I think maybe the scientologists with there meters and
> stuff could cure all you druggies!!
>
> Alan Hehe wrote: Nick…you are
> soooo full of shit. That’s exactly what you said, and
> you’re lucky I don’t have the e-mail anymore or I’d shove
> it down your lying, cyber throat!!!!!
> Come on..Preston, someone…does anyone have that
> email, the one where I posted the medical info I think
> might have his actual statement on it….I would
> appreciate if someone could send it back to me. Almost
> word for word what you said was (grammatical errors
> included) “Opiate is an analgesic. It stops feeling. Only
> someone with alot of repressed emotions receive bliss
> from analgesics, like opiates….” (you also said
> something about ego-orientation)…then you said “if you
> can think of another reason I’d love to hear it.” Now
> I’m positive that I want nothing more to do with you…so
> let sleeping dogs lie, or I swear I will rip you
> apart…and that way, you won’t have to “be manipulated
> anymore!” You dug your own grave with a drstically stupid
> statement, and you’re too full of yourself to just
> say…”hey, I was wrong”. Now, for the second time,
> BYE!!!!!
>
>
>
> ———————————
> From: “Nick Sandberg”
> Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
> To:
> Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Pot calling the Kettle Black?
> Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2006 08:53:07 +0100
>
>
> —–Original Message—–
> From: Alan Hehe [mailto:a.h.veil68@hotmail.com]
> Sent: 02 April 2006 17:32
> To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
> Subject: [Ibogaine] Pot calling the Kettle Black?
>
>
> Hey…uh, Biscuit Boy,
> What’s the matter? Do you NOT like my debate with
> Nick, or do you just not like the fact that Ann paid me a
> compliment? Do you agree with Nick’s idea that only
> emotionally repressed individuals receive any sort of high
> from opiates? If you’ve got something to say, why not come
> out and say it? Have you never done opiates? Or any
> drugs? What gives you the right to judge Ann? Personally
> I don’t care if her comment was influened by a whole gram
> of Mexican brown! Better a nice compliment from someone
> high, than a nasty one from someone sober! Now, if I’ve
> misconstrued your intent, I apologize, but I would
> appreciate a logical explanation rather than a low-blow
> insinuation.
>
> Hi Alan,
> only emotionally repressed individuals receive any sort
> of high from opiates – I did not make such an extreme
> statement. I said there was a relationship between the
> two, that the bliss experienced on opiates relates to the
> degree of ego-repressed feeling. You grab stuff,
> exaggerate it to an extreme position and then criticize
> your own interpretation. Welcome to the wonderful world
> of manipulation! I see a great career in media or politics
> opening up before you.
> BTW, this IS the classic trait for someone who is using
> belief patterns to hold down feelings. If something
> challenges the belief then repressed feelings start to
> rise “OMG, what if I’m really like so!” or whatever and
> the mind acts to push the feelings back down again,
> rearranging what is said into something it can criticize
> and expel. Frankly, I also see myself doing it at times!
> Letting go of beliefs can be a toughie.
> Nick
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ———————————
>
> From: biscuitboy714@aol.com
> Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
> To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
> Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Opiate effects
> Date: Sun, 02 Apr 2006 11:05:09 -0400
> >Yea Ann, tell us how much heroin you shot last night. He
> He I
> >couldn’t help it. I love you Mamma Randy
> >
> >—–Original Message—–
> >From: Alan Hehe
> >To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
> >Sent: Sat, 01 Apr 2006 11:15:03 -0500
> >Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Opiate effects
> >
> > Hey Ann,
> >
> > Thank you for the compliment…Somebody’s got to
> try to counter
> >his crazy ideas with some sense. Feel free to write me
> anytime..I
> >really enjoy talking to people on this list and hearing
> their
> >stories…Oh, don’t tell anyone, but I studied semantics
> and debate
> >in high school! Just kidding…about the hush hush, as
> anyone will
> >be able to read this. Oh, heck–LOL! I’m 37, and High
> school is but
> >a distant, mainly unplesant experience…except when I
> would catch
> >my English teacher making grammatical or syntactical
> mistakes,
> >before they moved me into an A.P. college-level
> class…And no, I’m
> >not conceited, either..but I do enjoy debate! Everyone
> has certain
> >qualities at which they excel, and others at which they
> are
> >deficient. I make up for my skill in English by being a
> retard in
> >math! Plus, I couldn’t be that smart or I wouldn’t be
> here, looking
> >for a way out of the hell-hole I dug for myself….and
> despite
> >having a really shitty childhood, I take complete
> responsibility for
> >my current position in
> >life……………………………….Wishing you the
> best in
> >all…….Alan.
> >
> >
> >
> > ——–
> >From: “Ann B. Mullikin”
> >Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
> >To:
> >Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Opiate effects
> >Date: Sat, 1 Apr 2006 10:04:20 -0500
> >
> > No, I am not Nick but…..
> >
> > Bravo, Alan. I surely do appreciate the way you use
> your brain –
> >TO THINK AND TO REASON. Its good stuff. Keep on.
> >
> >ann
> >think@francomm.com
> >
> > —– Original Message —–
> >From: Alan Hehe
> >To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
> >Sent: Friday, March 31, 2006 4:49 PM
> >Subject: [Ibogaine] Opiate effects
> >
> >
> > Hey Nick,
> >
> > I wanted to say that, although I was basically
> right, I believe
> >(and according to the research I’ve done) about the
> reason opiates
> >cause pleasure, I wasn’t entirely correct about the
> natural opiates
> >(dopamine,etc) having an effect on mood. They do have an
> affect on
> >mood..but then again, so does euphoria..in fact, it
> could be said to
> >be a mood unto itself. Here’s a little medical info for:
> Opiates
> >(heroin, morphine, etc.)
> >
> > The human body naturally produces its own opiate-like
> substances
> >and uses them as neurotransmitters. These substances
> include
> >endorphins, enkephalins, and dynorphin, often
> collectively known as
> >endogenous opioids. Endogenous opioids modulate our
> reactions to
> >painful stimuli. They also regulate vital functions such
> as hunger
> >and thirst and are involved in mood control, immune
> response, and
> >other processes.
> >
> >The reason that opiates such as heroin and morphine
> affect us so
> >powerfully is that these exogenous substances bind to
> the same
> >receptors as our endogenous opioids. There are three
> kinds of
> >receptors widely distributed throughout the brain: mu,
> delta, and
> >kappa receptors.
> >
> >These receptors, through second messengers, influence
> the likelihood
> >that ion channels will open, which in certain cases
> reduces the
> >excitability of neurons. This reduced excitability is
> the likely
> >source of the euphoric effect of opiates and appears to
> be mediated
> >by the mu and delta receptors.
> >
> >This euphoric effect also appears to involve another
> mechanism in
> >which the GABA-inhibitory interneurons of the ventral
> tegmental area
> >come into play. By attaching to their mu receptors,
> exogenous
> >opioids reduce the amount of GABA released (see
> animation).
> >Normally, GABA reduces the amount of dopamine released
> in the
> >nucleus accumbens. By inhibiting this inhibitor, the
> opiates
> >ultimately increase the amount of dopamine produced and
> the amount
> >of pleasure felt.
> >
> >Chronic consumption of opiates inhibits the production
> of cAMP, but
> >this inhibition is offset in the long run by other cAMP
> production
> >mechanisms. When no opiates are available, this
> increased cAMP
> >production capacity comes to the fore and results in
> neural
> >hyperactivity and the sensation of craving the drug.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >——–
> > Make FREE PC-to-PC calls with MSN Messenger. Get it
> now!
>
>/]=—————————————————–
> —————-=
> >[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands:
> >http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
>
>)=—————————————————–
> —————-=
> >[/
> >
> >
> >——–
> > Find just what you’re after with the new, more precise
> MSN Search
> >- try it now!
>
>/]=—————————————————–
> —————-=
> >[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands:
> >http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
>
>)=—————————————————–
> —————-=
> >[/
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>/]=—————————————————–
> —————-=[\
> >[%] Ibogaine List Commands:
> >http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
> >
>
>)=—————————————————–
> —————-=[/
> >
> >
>
>
>
> ———————————
> Be one of the first to try Windows Live Mail
>
/]=——————————————————-
> ————–=[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands:
> http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
>
)=——————————————————-
> ————–=[/
>
>
>
> ———————————
> Play Trivia with MSN Messenger for a chance to win an
> XBOX� 360 prize pack!�
>
/]=——————————————————-
> ————–=[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands:
> http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
>
)=——————————————————-
> ————–=[/
>
>
> ———————————
> Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. PC-to-Phone calls for
> ridiculously low rates.
>
>
>
>
>
>
/]=——————————————————-
> ————–=[\
> [%] Ibogaine List Commands:
> http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
>
>
)=——————————————————-
> ————–=[/
>
>

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

Talk is cheap. Use Yahoo! Messenger to make PC-to-Phone calls. Great rates starting at 1¢/min.

From: Vector Vector <vector620022002@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Sara on Dutch TV – NOVA ibogaine report
Date: April 3, 2006 at 7:14:09 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Is there a direct download URL for this? I can view the realplayer
version but having problems with windows. What’s new there 😉

Allright Sara!!!!

.:vector:.

— HSLotsof@aol.com wrote:

In a message dated 3/25/06 11:40:15 AM, sara119@xs4all.nl writes:

this is on tonight here about the Iboga treatment.

best wishes,

Sara

http://www.novatv.nl/index.cfm?ln=nl&fuseaction=videoaudio.details&
reportage_id=4220

I asked one of my Dutch speaking friends to monitor the program and I

received a glowing report that follows. It would be very positive if
the Dutch were
to pick up the research. Very good work Sara.

Howard
*******************
This is a very positive pro-Ibogaine documentary. Nova also holds
high
regard in terms of scientific reporting – it’s excellent – you can be
really
stoked about this.

Leenders and Fromberg simply explain that yes Ibogaine really works,
there
is no doubt about it and Fromberg says it even has been proven in
pharmacological research done in Rotterdam (not sure which research
he’s
referring to). When asked about the “shady treatment settings” like
the ones
with Sara, Leenders says these settings are not shady at all. Where
there is
demand there is supply, and if the government doesn’t provide it
other
people will. He also says that Ibogaine is not a recreational
substance,
that the experience is really intense and should be done under proper
guidance.

It is the Ministry of Health that come out as the bad guys for not
studying
Ibogaine. The Ministry admits comparing Ibogaine to
Naltrexone-under-narcosis and they are saying that since Naltrexone
didn’t
work with cravings then Ibogaine would be doubtable in this
department as
well. They are somewhat vaguely saying that this now might be a wrong
assumption.

The documentary ends on the note saying that Ibogaine is not being
research
in Holland (and it really is making the Dutch government look like
idiots
because they mention this) and that it IS being researched in other
countries, like the USA and that conclusive, positive information is
expected within the next few years as to how/why it works.

Wow! Very, very cool documentary. Be stoked, very stoked! Leenders
and
Fromberg are 100+% behind Ibogaine, nothing but super-positive stuff
from
them; they are your allies.

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: “Billy J” <billjohnson6@sympatico.ca>
Subject: [Ibogaine] Vector Vector Get a Life
Date: April 3, 2006 at 8:38:07 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Drugs are Druigs and I guess girls will be girls to the end.
Come back Vector Vector when you can do the next thing you do GOOD! Because GOSSIP is BAAAAAAAADDDDDDD    NO MORE GOSSIP PLEASE.

With lots of Loove and hugs and kisses and SMILES.
and especially a quiet mouth,
Billy the mad man today. LoL

—-Original Message Follows—-
From: Vector Vector <vector620022002@yahoo.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] Sara!
Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2006 16:19:39 -0700 (PDT)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Received: from tomts2-srv.bellnexxia.net ([209.226.175.114]) by bay0-pamc1-f8.bay0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Mon, 3 Apr 2006 16:31:34 -0700
Received: from toip6.bellnexxia.net ([209.226.175.174])          by tomts2-srv.bellnexxia.net          (InterMail vM.5.01.06.13 201-253-122-130-113-20050324) with ESMTP          id <20060403233251.MCQV10941.tomts2-srv.bellnexxia.net@toip6.bellnexxia.net>          for <billjohnson6@sympatico.ca>; Mon, 3 Apr 2006 19:32:51 -0400
Received: from tanelorn.mindvox.com (HELO mail.mindvox.com) ([64.124.179.118])  by toip6.bellnexxia.net with ESMTP; 03 Apr 2006 19:31:29 -0400
Received: (qmail 2044 invoked by uid 513); 3 Apr 2006 19:31:23 -0400
Received: (qmail 2038 invoked by uid 514); 3 Apr 2006 19:31:23 -0400
X-Message-Info: moY6YVwXQ44yrLI3b7R+Fs+tkBHj+vYENtvdA7+0Cb0=
Mailing-List: contact ibogaine-help@mindvox.com; run by ezmlm
Precedence: bulk
X-No-Archive: yes
List-Post: <mailto:ibogaine@mindvox.com>
List-Help: <mailto:ibogaine-help@mindvox.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:ibogaine-unsubscribe@mindvox.com>
List-Subscribe: <mailto:ibogaine-subscribe@mindvox.com>
Delivered-To: mailing list ibogaine@mindvox.com
X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.1 required=4.0
X-Antivirus-MYDOMAIN-Mail-From: vector620022002@yahoo.com via tanelorn.mindvox.com
X-Antivirus-MYDOMAIN: 1.25-st-qms (Clear:RC:0(68.142.198.156):SA:0(0.1/4.0):. Processed in 7.079206 secs Process 2030)
Return-Path: ibogaine-return-23248-billjohnson6=sympatico.ca@mindvox.com
X-OriginalArrivalTime: 03 Apr 2006 23:31:34.0645 (UTC) FILETIME=[BEDB7A50:01C65776]

More Sara 🙂

http://saraglatt.blogspot.com/2006/04/sara-glatt-iboga-ibogaine-treatment-in.html

Monday, April 03, 2006
Sara Glatt & Iboga, ibogaine treatment in Holland

The following is a litteral transcript of an exchange of opinions
between myself and Sara Glatt that recently took place in e-mails. My
reasons for posting this expose are because I feel I have been done a
great injustice by Sara while attempting to help her, financialy and
helping her around the house, cooking, cleaning, clearing the garden
etc.

Admittedly differences of opinion are bound to occurr while working
with entheogenic substances. Below are the results of attempts to
resolve these differences and to reestablish the friendship and respect
that I truly felt for Sara. I have many criticisms of the way she
conducts her bussiness: treating people with drug dependencies with an
iboga extract. I have however never thought of Sara as a person who is
less than completely sincere, however my opinion has changed following
this exchange and I leave this message as a warning to those
considering submitting to iboga treatment at her home. Iboga treatment
is probably the most powerful entheogenic treatment available today,
and can in some cases lead to very long recovery periods. In many cases
although dependency and craving are substantialy alleviated, addicts
will find themselves returning to the use of drugs soon enough because
the therapy given by Sara is insufficient as a means of working out
personal psychological problems, which more often than not require
psychotherapy. I hope all those considering this treatment will think
twice before taking iboga.

D Waterman

Dear Daniel,
I would appreciate any information you are able to send me regarding
Iboga treatment. I will be happy to have any information regarding
where, when, and how much?

Sincerely,

Name deleted.

Dear Rick, I have forwarded your request to Sara, who is the only
person I know of specificaly qualified to administer Iboga. I hope she
will contact you soon. Sara is 100% bonafide and you can trust her…

Good luck

Daniel

Sara:

Thanks, best wishes always,

Sara

Dear Sara,
As you can see neither my respect for you, nor my friendship have
diminished over time, but I have to say that now I too am disappointed.
Misunderstandings between friends happen and it shouldn’t be the end of
the friendship. Whatever happened back then is in the past. I never
meant to hurt you or to do anything to hurt your interests. I am
outspoken and some people may take that the wrong way, which says more
about who they are than about me. I consider you a good friend, or
considered, until I felt you were not being entirely sincere with me
about some things. Where two people argue there are always two causes
you know that.

I don’t want to go back to the past, today life is different for me and
for you too. I just want to let you know that I think of you and miss
you.

Daniel

Sara: thanks and I appriciate that a lot, I’m working very hard and
have very little time for socializing. best wishes,

Sara

Sara: thank you for sharing you feeling with me, I would like to get
some clarity about, what have I done wrong to you? please let me know.

kind regards,
Sara

Daniel:
Sara you have done nothing wrong to me, or else I would not be writing
to you at all. Something must have gone wrong however: we stopped
talking.

It felt like you accused me of having scared away Chandra with my
e-mails. I felt on the other hand that you had in some way asked me to
help get together people for a ceremony with him, and that you didn’t
yourself have enough people to make it worthwhile. When Chandra’s wife
was making the arrangements with me she was totally impractical. Yana
and Harald from Germany have had exactly the same experience with her,
so I feel justified in my conviction that there is something wrong with
the way she expected us to organise the work and to receive all the
financial benefits themselves (and the work would have been much more
expensive than our work here). These are clearly people who are in it
for the money. She got insulted and decided to stay away. Now I have
the feeling you blame me for this, but I seem to remember asking you
whether you would like me to help arrange this visit (I thought you
don’t have enough people to make it work). I feel that much of the
confusion has to do with these two things, the quite sudden request to
help organise an ayahuasca session for someone else who was working for
financial interest and the fact that I found out from Emy that you
planned to work with ayahuasca, before I found out from you. Both these
things are not things you did to me, but they are signals of
non-communication.

Sara, I have had a lot of experience of the trouble that people have in
ayahuasca ceremonies. Those problems are very different from what
happens during an iboga session: there you firstly have one on one
communication, and secondly the journey is much deeper. In ayahuasca
work part of the therapy is in the human interaction and so there are
projections. In psychology the term for this is transference, the
patient transfers feelings to the therapist (and obviously sometimes
the other way round) In psychotherapy the therapist can use this
relationship to the advantage of the therapy, for example he can read
something about the patients background in the way the patient is
hostile or solicitous to him. Ayahuasca work brings up many of such
feelings, because the participant is awake, in a group, active.

I want to make ayahuasca sessions that are genuinely healing and
therapeutic, as I have now begun to do both here and in Israel. That
argument at your home was the moment when I realised that the problems
I was having with the control of the session was not one of being a
‘control freak’ (which is a projection) but of not controlling enough.
In Israel the work has been much more structured and I feel justified
in preparing groups according to the psychology that I feel underlies
and justifies this type of work. As always, communication and straight
speaking are the key to maintaining honest and sincere relations both
within this work and in daily life.

I am not angry at you. I discontinued the work at your home to protect
you from the feelings that were flying around at the time. I am sorry
if you were hurt by what happened but when things get out of hand, and
they often do, there is nothing we can do except examine what we could
have done ourselves to make sure they don’t do again.

I don’t know whether this letter will clear up anything between you and
me Sara. There are no bad feelings here on my side. We should have a
drink together. I have an excellent ayahuasca made by myself and
Naftalie Hershler in my fathers back garden, in the traditional way, no
more powders. Friendship should not be that easy to destroy.

Love

Daniel

Dear Daniel,
first of all, I wanted to have a female group for Aya. and that is what
I told Emy. on the other hand it is at my home and I feel that I can
invite who I like to. You said very clear that day that you decided to
stop with giving ceremonies, that’s why I wanted to invite Chandra in
the first place. anyways, Aya. doesn’t doe me much and I never had a
vision that excited me to continue this work. I feel that you are an
abusive person and that’s why I stoped speaking to you.

I never intented to stop my friendship to you but I don’t like to be in
a company of someone who is acting abusive to me. if someone is doing
things impractically or for material intention,it’s their own karma
that meets with them.

I also have changed and don’t need extra baggage of being blamed for
anything, what I do at my home is my own business and I have no need
for any ceremony here, when it can go out of hand. I don’t connect to
any religion or trying to convert anybody into my world or prove
anything,or say one thing and do another.

kind regards,

Sara

Dear Sara,
I answered your last letter in the expectation that we could
communicate about things without blaming, however you have raised a few
issues that I would appreciate you clearing up. What do you mean by:

I feel that you are an abusive person and that’s why I stoped speaking
to you.

How have I abused you?

What does this mean:

I don’t connect to any religion or trying to convert anybody into my
world or prove anything,or say one thing and do another.

Are you saying you think I connect to some religion or am trying to
convert people? Or that I say one thing and do another? It sounds as if
you are doing what you are accusing me of: blaming me for something.
Obviously there is more here than meets the eye.

I feel like we are talking a different language Sara. As you see I
understand perfectly that you have no need for any ceremony that can
get out of hand (neither do I by the way) and wished to protect you
from that. It seems however that you must be blaming me for my part in
the argument with Cat, since I cannot be responsible for how she
behaved. If that is so, I agree with you, and it is a lesson I have
learned. As I said I apologise for my role in that. Sara what more can
I do to repair the damage. It seems that whatever I say to you just is
making things worse.

In any meeting between two people there is as much the challenge of
friendship as a possibility to learn something (that makes the
relationship or friendship worthwhile) I appreciate the time you have
taken to answer my letters, however at this time I am asking myself
whether there is any point: is any progress being made? Has anything
become clear to you through this, or have bad feelings been resolved?
Or am I just a person who you can conveniently project your own
feelings onto now?

I am sorry Sara, that for all the best wishes in the world this
friendship and respect that I feel for you cannot grow without a
deepening of awareness on both sides. If you are prepared to just leave
the past for what it is, that is one thing…but now you have brought
up topics that need to be talked about if we want to resolve anything,
and I don’t really know whether you want to do this or not. How can
there ever be a deepening of awareness without confrontation Sara,
there are always the things inside us that we are unwilling to see, it
is others who confront us with those things.

Love light and wisdom on you path

Daniel

Dear Daniel,
well I understand you wanted to communicate with me. we had an
agreement when you came here to do the Aya.ceremony, you gave me a
bottle saying this is 4 doses cost 40 euros each, then you looked at me
as if you wanted to kill me because I was going to invite chandra, so I
didn’t say anything after you have been agressive with Cat. and not
resonable with Joyce. instead of keeping our agreement that I would get
so many % of the income, for using my facility. the Aya. that you sold
to me much too expesive wasn’t worth drinking, not for my client nor
for me, we didn’t feel a thing, it is money gone down the drain. you
never asked me how was that Aya. I also could have made the tea it
wouldn’t have cost a 1/4 of what you charged me
and I would have more then what you sold to me for 160 euros. you gave
it to me at first without charging anything, me thinking “Oh how
kind”then you said, “Oh but that’s worth that much then you will not
get any money of me this time,” you were upset with me for wanting to
do a ladies session with chandra, but you didn’t have a good reason to
be,I will not do Aya. with anybody in my home, there will be no “Master
Ayahuscha here”. and if I like to do Aya. I will do it myself. that’s
because I lost trust in people telling one thing but when it comes to
it they don’t walk their talk.

then you came to tell me that I wasn’t a good researcher because I
don’t keep Data’s, i felt it was more about yourself importance by
criticism towards me and be little me. then about visiting me as a
friend or coming to help me in the graden.

I don’t need you to be projecting my feelings,if I have any bad feeling
about anything it is my piece of cake, I have lost trust and that’s all
there is to it, not only in you but in “Humanity”, it is not you to
blame that we live in materialistic world were power, self importance
and money are the role players and the spirit is lost, that’s the
projection of the time we live in.

kind regards,
Sara

Daniel:

Sara now you are telling things that you never even mentioned to me.
You got some impression from me but you never checked whether that
impression was correct. I understand your reasoning however you were
jumping to conclusions: you looked at me as if you wanted to kill me?
You really believe this Sara? Come on…. aren’t we supposed to be even
a little spiritually evolved. Sara in all truth you make an impression
of someone whose trust is all too easily destroyed. You have no faith
in humanity? Thats a really heavy trip to lay on anyone. This has
nothing to do with me. I was not aggresive with Cat, she hit me if you
will remember. Secondly Joyce ran away instead of talking to me, after
she took offense at something she overheard me say to someone else that
was none of her business. At not time did I try to prevent her from
leaving and she gave me no opportunity to talk about things she just
walked off, leaving a big stink of conceit and making Cat go into a
hysterical mood. I never tried to conceal anything from you about my
problems with Cat, and I told you that I hit her once, but I did not do
that in your home even after she hit me. I learned that lesson, but Cat
obviously did not, and now how can you blame me for being aggressive to
her? Are you saying women cannot be aggressive?

Out of all the sessions I gave at your home I always gave you a good
share of the income. When you asked me for ayahuasca I gave you what I
was using in my sessions, and I did not charge you more than I have
charged for participation in my sessions. I admit there was a problem
with that particular type of ayahuasca, made from extract. For some
reason some people feel more from it than others, and I have stopped
working with it and only use the raw materials now, however that was
what I was using then, it worked very powerfully for me remember? There
was no intention there to rip you off. As you may also remember I came
back to your home a week after that session to repair your window and
also to see you. You made no mention of your feelings about that
ayahuasca.

By the way, Naftalie worked with our new ayahuasca in Israel and nobody
felt a thing. It almost provoked an argument because he had charged
money for the session. Just drinking the ayahuasca is not the whole
story, and I have taken particular pains to remind both you and
everyone who has participated in my sessions of this fact: ayahuasca is
-ritual + ayahuasca + singing/dancing-. You yourself have told me that
you have a special relationship with the Iboga, why should such a
special relationship not exist for ayahuasca as well? Of course it
does. The effects can only manifest properly under specific conditions
and you are obviously not yet able to create those conditions.

Sara you are still full of blame and grievances, and many of them are
not really my bussiness, they have to do with a general way you take
things. I gladly helped you clean up the garden, cook, clear the home,
move the glass laboratory gear. There was no profit motive there just
friendship. Sure I am critical about the way you do things, though I
was just letting you hear my opinion, how you do things is indeed your
bussiness, and not mine, and certainly not a reason to think less of
you.

As big and shining as your heart is, you are also making yourself
really small, by carrying this grievance against the world around and
pretending it is not so. I wish that I could take away that pain, or
show you what you are doing. You are depriving yourself of a lot of
help and support in this way. I had no intention of sabotaging you or
your work, or disturbing your home, I just wanted to help you in any
way that I could and I felt some common intention in our work.

I cannot be your friend if I cannot speak my heart, without you taking
my words as an attack of some sort. It is up to you to take those words
whichever way you choose and there is a choice there. Why should I be
any less a friend for having criticised you a little? You think I would
even bother if I didn’t care?

Lets leave this discussion a little now. I don’t particularly want to
get into a yes no this that debate with you, its exactly the kind of
stuff that was going on between me and Cat and I have no desire to
continue doing it. The first words of the Santo Daime are -examine you
conscience- If each of us does this and we still find friendship and
love there that’s great, but if all we find is blame and pain, then
there is till work to be done, and I cannot do that for you just as you
cannot do it for me. Take care,

Love

Daniel

Sara:

Hi Roger my king, in the below email Daniel addmit that the Aya. wasn’t
good. he thinks that if I sing and dance and do as he said I may will
get a vision. just lots of bullshit, if it wasn’t the lady’s business
why would he speak about those things in her and other’s company? after
all be here and now, not talk shit about nobody unless it’s a warrning
about dangerous stuff. if he didn’t have a loud arrument with Joyce
then Cat would had the need to be upset. the window he repaired he
broke in the first place, while knocking at the door window with his
keys in an irritating way, while the back door was open and he just
could get in anyways. this is very well written of Daniel, but he is in
cloud kukuland. anyways, I thought you should know about the Aya.
quality first hand.

love you much,
xxx

Sara

You know Sara, the things you are saying in this letter here prove only
one thing: you need to really grow up and stop behaving like a baby.
Everyone on the whole internet knows that ayahuasca only works together
with singing and here you are denying it.

Please lets stop writing, enough stupidity in the world already without
you and me contributing to it both,

Dooeeeeee!

Sara:

Dat’s right, dooeeei,my kids said that too. I didn’t like to write the
same thing twice, I also had enough of bullshiting. now You know that
my friend who took the Aya. with me thought I was cheeting him with
giving him the wrong stuff, charging money for bullshit. he was upset
and me too, there was no Dancing or singing with other shamans and it
did work then,there are many reports on own use of Aya. without a
shaman, that DMT worked but no for everyone the same. they not all do
it your way Daniel, but you know the spirit and the spirit knows you.

I have work lots and lots of hours with people for no charge at all,
and you know it too, you know it is hard for my finnacially and that’s
why I opened my house for Aya. ceremony, but charging me the same as
you would charge a total stranger is a pain, and then I did lost trust
in your real intentions of really helping me out then. now I know that
I souldn’t ask anything of anybody and that what ever pain I have
that’s my thing to work out not with some kind of spirit in the sky.
get real, Daniel, it hurt anyone’s feeling to be treated like a total
stranger when I was concidered to be your friend. well, you know my
side of the picture, just as you wanted to. maybe now you can project
your anger but no need to be defensive. this is happen for real at my
kitchen table, gossiping was not the right thing to do and when Joyce
made a point out of it, you were not respectful to her, so why would
you be respectful to me? this is when you are talking about bring peace
with Aya. what is past is past, yes. but when trust is lost the it
takes much more to gain it again. sorry about the harsh way of saying
things but that’s what they do in Group therapy these days.they call it
tough love.

beste,

Sara
posted by Huasquero @ 1:56 AM

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: captkirk <captkirk@clear.net.nz>
Subject: [Ibogaine] RE: email problems
Date: April 4, 2006 at 1:02:00 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

No problems here in New Zealand, but then again, we’re in
the future………..:oP

—– Original Message Follows —–
That happens alot, to me all the time with Craigslist in
particular. the answer is usually switch off of hotmail
because that’s the #1 problem 😉 Being on AOL that’s not
your problem, you should make sure the list is marked as
“not spam” and it’s usually ok, though sometimes yahoo
does the same thing, most webmail with spam filters will
time out or assign false positives once in a while when
there is high traffic.

If you get the error msgs and most of the actual msgs,
you’re doing ok 😉 The error msgs also usually tell you
how to retrieve any missed msgs from the archive.

FWIW Gmail is almost bulletproof and perfect, it looks to
have nearly none of the usual webmail problems at all. I
should take my own advice and finally switch, I keep
waiting for @mindvox.com to re open, c’mon already! 😉

:vector:.

— CallieMimosa@aol.com wrote:

I have been getting some messages from postmaster saying
messages delayed
and/or undeliverable. Anyone else having this problem?
Some of the posts I am not getting. I read the replies
you folks are  writing
but did not receive original message.
Callie

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection
around  http://mail.yahoo.com

/]=——————————————————-
————–=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands:
http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]

)=——————————————————-
————–=[/

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: captkirk <captkirk@clear.net.nz>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Why Be Mean?
Date: April 4, 2006 at 1:00:37 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

lol billy, I thought that was rather tame compared with
“other emails which shall remain un-named”………….
Feels like PMS to me (Putting Up with Men’s Shit….).
Ok, I’ll go read a book now…..
;o)
“Scientology for Dummies”

—– Original Message Follows —–

If Us druggies need scientoligists what does the rest of
you need?

Please be nice or go read a book>
Thanks and please just apoligise for being mean (without
excuse) and move  on, It is easy to be mean – antbody can,
Try to be nice when you are feeling  mean,
When you can do that then you can call yourself a MAN.
Good Night Ya All

Billy Boy

—-Original Message Follows—-
From: Crooked Eye <iboganaut420@yahoo.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Pot calling the Kettle Black?
Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2006 20:36:38 -0700 (PDT)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Received: from tomts3-srv.bellnexxia.net
([209.226.175.115]) by  bay0-pamc1-f11.bay0.hotmail.com
with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Mon,  3 Apr 2006
20:37:12 -0700 Received: from toip5.bellnexxia.net
([209.226.175.88])          by  tomts3-srv.bellnexxia.net
(InterMail vM.5.01.06.13
201-253-122-130-113-20050324) with ESMTP          id
<20060404033816.JVE19199.tomts3-srv.bellnexxia.net@toip5.b
ellnexxia.net>
for <billjohnson6@sympatico.ca>; Mon, 3 Apr 2006
23:38:16 -0400 Received: from tanelorn.mindvox.com (HELO
mail.mindvox.com)  ([64.124.179.118])  by
toip5.bellnexxia.net with ESMTP; 03 Apr 2006 23:37:11
-0400 Received: (qmail 12301 invoked by uid 513); 3 Apr
2006 23:37:08 -0400 Received: (qmail 12292 invoked by uid
514); 3 Apr 2006 23:37:08 -0400 X-Message-Info:
moY6YVwXQ45HxveqJh1soofSX6OdRulhteE0rfSMVvk=
Mailing-List:
contact ibogaine-help@mindvox.com; run by ezmlm
Precedence: bulk X-No-Archive: yes
List-Post: <mailto:ibogaine@mindvox.com>
List-Help: <mailto:ibogaine-help@mindvox.com>
List-Unsubscribe:
<mailto:ibogaine-unsubscribe@mindvox.com> List-Subscribe:
<mailto:ibogaine-subscribe@mindvox.com> Delivered-To:
mailing list ibogaine@mindvox.com X-Spam-Status: No,
hits=0.2 required=4.0 X-Antivirus-MYDOMAIN-Mail-From:
iboganaut420@yahoo.com via  tanelorn.mindvox.com
X-Antivirus-MYDOMAIN: 1.25-st-qms
(Clear:RC:0(68.142.200.98):SA:0(0.2/4.0):.  Processed in
5.028593 secs Process 12219) Return-Path:

ibogaine-return-23261-billjohnson6=sympatico.ca@mindvox.co
m X-OriginalArrivalTime: 04 Apr 2006 03:37:12.0775 (UTC)
FILETIME=[0F77A570:01C65799]

I think maybe the scientologists with there meters and
stuff could cure all  you druggies!!

Alan Hehe <a.h.veil68@hotmail.com> wrote:   Nick…you are
soooo full of  shit. That’s exactly what you said, and
you’re lucky I don’t have the e-mail  anymore or I’d shove
it down your lying, cyber throat!!!!!
Come on..Preston, someone…does anyone have that
email, the one  where I posted the medical info I think
might have his actual statement on  it….I would
appreciate if someone could send it back to me. Almost
word  for word what you said was (grammatical errors
included) “Opiate is an  analgesic. It stops feeling. Only
someone with alot of repressed emotions  receive bliss
from analgesics, like opiates….” (you also said
something  about ego-orientation)…then you said “if you
can think of another reason  I’d love to hear it.”  Now
I’m positive that I want nothing more to do with  you…so
let sleeping dogs lie, or I swear I will rip you
apart…and that  way, you won’t have to “be manipulated
anymore!” You dug your own grave with  a drstically stupid
statement, and you’re too full of yourself to just
say…”hey, I was wrong”. Now, for the second time,
BYE!!!!!

———————————
From: “Nick Sandberg” <nick227@tiscali.co.uk>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Pot calling the Kettle Black?
Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2006 08:53:07 +0100

—–Original Message—–
From: Alan Hehe [mailto:a.h.veil68@hotmail.com]
Sent: 02 April 2006 17:32
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] Pot calling the Kettle Black?

Hey…uh, Biscuit Boy,
What’s the matter? Do you NOT like my debate with
Nick, or do you just  not like the fact that Ann paid me a
compliment? Do you agree with Nick’s  idea that only
emotionally repressed individuals receive any sort of high
from opiates? If you’ve got something to say, why not come
out and say it?  Have you never done opiates? Or any
drugs? What gives you the right to judge  Ann? Personally
I don’t care if her comment was influened by a whole gram
of  Mexican brown! Better a nice compliment from someone
high, than a nasty one  from someone sober! Now, if I’ve
misconstrued your intent, I apologize, but  I would
appreciate a logical explanation rather than a low-blow
insinuation.

Hi Alan,
only emotionally repressed individuals receive any sort
of high from  opiates – I did not make such an extreme
statement. I said there was a  relationship between the
two, that the bliss experienced on opiates relates  to the
degree of ego-repressed feeling. You grab stuff,
exaggerate it to an  extreme position and then criticize
your own interpretation. Welcome to the  wonderful world
of manipulation! I see a great career in media or politics
opening up before you.
BTW, this IS the classic trait for someone who is using
belief patterns to  hold down feelings. If something
challenges the belief then repressed  feelings start to
rise “OMG, what if I’m really like so!” or whatever and
the mind acts to push the feelings back down again,
rearranging what is said  into something it can criticize
and expel. Frankly, I also see myself doing  it at times!
Letting go of beliefs can be a toughie.
Nick

———————————

From:  biscuitboy714@aol.com
Reply-To:  ibogaine@mindvox.com
To:  ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject:  Re: [Ibogaine] Opiate effects
Date:  Sun, 02 Apr 2006 11:05:09 -0400
Yea Ann, tell us how much heroin you shot last night. He
He I
couldn’t help it. I love you Mamma           Randy

—–Original Message—–
From: Alan Hehe <a.h.veil68@hotmail.com>
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Sat, 01 Apr 2006 11:15:03 -0500
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Opiate effects

Hey Ann,

Thank you for the compliment…Somebody’s got to
try to counter
his crazy ideas with some sense. Feel free to write me
anytime..I
really enjoy talking to people on this list and hearing
their
stories…Oh, don’t tell anyone, but I studied semantics
and debate
in high school! Just kidding…about the hush hush, as
anyone will
be able to read this. Oh, heck–LOL! I’m 37, and High
school is but
a distant, mainly unplesant experience…except when I
would catch
my English teacher making grammatical or syntactical
mistakes,
before they moved me into an A.P. college-level
class…And no, I’m
not conceited, either..but I do enjoy debate! Everyone
has certain
qualities at which they excel, and others at which they
are
deficient. I make up for my skill in English by being a
retard in
math! Plus, I couldn’t be that smart or I wouldn’t be
here, looking
for a way out of the hell-hole I dug for myself….and
despite
having a really shitty childhood, I take complete
responsibility for
my current position in
life……………………………….Wishing you the
best in
all…….Alan.

——–
From: “Ann B. Mullikin” <think@francomm.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Opiate effects
Date: Sat, 1 Apr 2006 10:04:20 -0500

No, I am not Nick but…..

Bravo, Alan.  I surely do appreciate the way you use
your brain –
TO THINK AND TO REASON.  Its good stuff.  Keep on.

ann
think@francomm.com

—– Original Message —–
From: Alan Hehe
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Friday,  March 31, 2006 4:49 PM
Subject: [Ibogaine] Opiate effects

Hey Nick,

I wanted to say that, although I was basically
right, I believe
(and according to the research I’ve done) about the
reason opiates
cause pleasure, I wasn’t entirely correct about the
natural opiates
(dopamine,etc) having an effect on mood. They do have an
affect on
mood..but then again, so does euphoria..in fact, it
could be said to
be a mood unto itself. Here’s a little medical info for:
Opiates
(heroin, morphine, etc.)

The human body naturally produces its own opiate-like
substances
and uses them as neurotransmitters. These substances
include
endorphins, enkephalins, and dynorphin, often
collectively known as
endogenous opioids.  Endogenous opioids modulate our
reactions to
painful stimuli. They also regulate vital functions such
as hunger
and thirst and are involved in mood control, immune
response, and
other processes.

The reason that opiates such as heroin and morphine
affect us so
powerfully is that these exogenous substances bind to
the same
receptors as our endogenous opioids. There are three
kinds of
receptors widely distributed throughout the brain: mu,
delta, and
kappa receptors.

These receptors, through second messengers, influence
the likelihood
that ion channels will open, which in certain cases
reduces the
excitability of neurons. This reduced excitability is
the likely
source of the euphoric effect of opiates and appears to
be mediated
by the mu and delta  receptors.

This euphoric effect also appears to involve another
mechanism in
which the GABA-inhibitory interneurons of the ventral
tegmental area
come into play. By attaching to their mu receptors,
exogenous
opioids reduce the amount of GABA released (see
animation).
Normally, GABA reduces the amount of dopamine released
in the
nucleus accumbens. By inhibiting this inhibitor, the
opiates
ultimately increase the amount of dopamine produced and
the amount
of pleasure felt.

Chronic consumption of opiates inhibits the production
of cAMP, but
this inhibition is offset in the long run by other cAMP
production
mechanisms. When no opiates are available, this
increased cAMP
production capacity comes to the fore and results in
neural
hyperactivity and the sensation of craving the  drug.

——–
Make FREE PC-to-PC calls with MSN Messenger. Get it
now!

/]=—————————————————–
—————-=
[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands:
http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]

)=—————————————————–
—————-=
[/

——–
Find just what you’re after with the new, more precise
MSN Search
– try it now!

/]=—————————————————–
—————-=
[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands:
http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]

)=—————————————————–
—————-=
[/

/]=—————————————————–
—————-=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands:
http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]

)=—————————————————–
—————-=[/

———————————
Be one of the first to try Windows Live Mail

/]=——————————————————-
————–=[\  [%] Ibogaine List Commands:
http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html  [%]

)=——————————————————-
————–=[/

———————————
Play Trivia with MSN Messenger for a chance to win an
XBOX� 360 prize  pack!�

/]=——————————————————-
————–=[\   [%] Ibogaine List Commands:
http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html  [%]

)=——————————————————-
————–=[/

———————————
Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. PC-to-Phone calls for
ridiculously low rates.

/]=——————————————————-
————–=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands:
http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]

)=——————————————————-
————–=[/

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: “Jasen Chamoun” <jasenhappy@optusnet.com.au>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] not getting through….
Date: April 3, 2006 at 6:11:39 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hello Callie,

Yes, I have the same thing happening here in Australia. When I sometimes send a post it takes a couple of days to get to the list and at times does
not get through at all. Also at times I don’t receive all the messages.

I hope your well.

love, Jasen
—– Original Message —– at times
From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Tuesday, April 04, 2006 4:34 AM
Subject: [Ibogaine] this list is messed up!

I have been getting some messages from postmaster saying messages delayed and/or undeliverable. Anyone else having this problem?
Some of the posts I am not getting. I read the replies you folks are writing but did not receive original message.
Callie

From: “Billy J” <billjohnson6@sympatico.ca>
Subject: [Ibogaine] RE: [Pornography,psychology,Choice,force,) 2 cents
Date: April 2, 2006 at 9:45:39 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Well It sounds like this place is really mixing it up so I would like to add a little REALITY TO YOU PRO CHOICERS, I am sure glad I was not an abortion’ althought I have had my moments.
Yes My Mom was a young Mom and if she had a choice I think that I would have no Grandkids, or be babbleing on here.
I too have an attitude, It is about the only thing in this world that I really have control over.
Tiger– How well did you do with making ALL your own Choices, Instead of doing what your were told to do? Not meant to be a shot at you personally, but I am with the Right or Wrong crowd- No such thing as grey.
I do know that some people may have grown up believing that wrong was right and right was wrong, but I Think that I pretty much knew when I was stepping out of line and doing wrong.
It is (as most believe) My God , no not God, but My worldly given Right- to do wrong- It’s my life and if I want to screw it up then stay out of my way. And you know what I had a lot of sooo called friends that did just that WATCHED, AS i WAS Killing myself and ruining a lot of lifes.
But O O O never no no no neverdare step on somebodys toes because you know what they have a choice, Just like those poor little Crack %$^&%$ Women that degrade themselves( and me myself) due to everybody. But Never No No Never dare tell somebody or force someone to get some help that they may never ever make it to on their own, due to something called “Pride” “Shame” “Guilt”
Whatever holds them back. They may end up DEAD and it would be their own fault, because you know how STRONG us druggies are, and if that person dies because he had a choice to get help and refused or just couldn’t make it on his/her own and needed YOU (of course they didn’t tell you that).
I am sorry but I BELIEVE that if you Love Someone or even care a little, and you see them walking off a cliff and YOU have an opportunity to stop them, and you don’t- Can you truelly say it was their own fault?
Pornography- I never met too many Normal people that would find it neccesary to take their cloths off for the public to see. Totally wrong and if you had your own kids you might not think it too cool having your buddy beating off while checking out your little girl.
Not nice eh Billy but P–sy T-ts are not meant for anyone except who they belong to and their mate.

Bye For Now, That stuff is about the biggest trigger going for any downfall

Bill
—-Original Message Follows—-
From: “Nick Sandberg” <nick227@tiscali.co.uk>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Opiates
Date: Sun, 2 Apr 2006 10:24:07 +0100
MIME-Version: 1.0
Received: from tomts21-srv.bellnexxia.net ([209.226.175.183]) by bay0-pamc1-f11.bay0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Sun, 2 Apr 2006 05:38:59 -0700
Received: from toip5.bellnexxia.net ([209.226.175.88])          by tomts21-srv.bellnexxia.net          (InterMail vM.5.01.06.13 201-253-122-130-113-20050324) with ESMTP          id <20060402123858.HZPV14030.tomts21-srv.bellnexxia.net@toip5.bellnexxia.net>          for <billjohnson6@sympatico.ca>; Sun, 2 Apr 2006 08:38:58 -0400
Received: from tanelorn.mindvox.com (HELO mail.mindvox.com) ([64.124.179.118])  by toip5.bellnexxia.net with ESMTP; 02 Apr 2006 08:38:58 -0400
Received: (qmail 16967 invoked by uid 513); 2 Apr 2006 08:38:55 -0400
Received: (qmail 16961 invoked by uid 514); 2 Apr 2006 08:38:55 -0400
X-Message-Info: moY6YVwXQ44WAJnUvaOEtK2hXKGagKAsshDbZwj7pSc=
Mailing-List: contact ibogaine-help@mindvox.com; run by ezmlm
Precedence: bulk
X-No-Archive: yes
List-Post: <mailto:ibogaine@mindvox.com>
List-Help: <mailto:ibogaine-help@mindvox.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:ibogaine-unsubscribe@mindvox.com>
List-Subscribe: <mailto:ibogaine-subscribe@mindvox.com>
Delivered-To: mailing list ibogaine@mindvox.com
X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.3 required=4.0
X-Antivirus-MYDOMAIN-Mail-From: nick227@tiscali.co.uk via tanelorn.mindvox.com
X-Antivirus-MYDOMAIN: 1.25-st-qms (Clear:RC:0(212.74.114.37):SA:0(-2.3/4.0):. Processed in 2.781926 secs Process 16953)
X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true
X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: AQAAAJ0kL0SDE4UI
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.6604 (9.0.2911.0)
Return-Path: ibogaine-return-23233-billjohnson6=sympatico.ca@mindvox.com
X-OriginalArrivalTime: 02 Apr 2006 12:38:59.0373 (UTC) FILETIME=[6A155DD0:01C65652]

—–Original Message—–
From: Tiger Lisa [mailto:tigerlisa@gmail.com]
Sent: 01 April 2006 13:44
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Opiates

Dear Nick,
Here’ the part I don’t understand.

You wrote,
Personally, my position is…I think rising awareness is GOOD. I would
love to see more people in groups, going through their stuff, becoming more
aware of their personal interior dynamic, and moving forward in life. But,
sadly, I’m not in a position to compel people to do this.

Why would you ever want to COMPEL anyone to do ANYTHING? Do you really
believe that would be useful, effective, helpful? Do you think people
actually benefit from, and grow from, being FORCED to do anything?

That is a parent-child model of interaction (and not a particularly
skillful one, IMO), and it’s going to reinforce childlike, rebellious and
victim behavior (NOT self-awareness!) in the one so compelled, as well as
reinforcing bullying behavior and disprespectful and righteous attitudes
(NOT increased compassion or awareness) in the one doing the compelling. A
“lose-lose” interaction–no one wins!

Myself, I believe CHOICE is the name of the game. With choice comes
responsibility, self-responsibility and a loss of the victim consciousness
that drives continued reactive and unconscious behavior.

So in a nutshell: Saying something (like awarenss) is GOOD is one thing,
but it’s a far cry from that to say,”And I’d love to FORCE you all to be
more aware! too bad I can’t!” I think that is the essence of what  *I* am
having a problem with. Yes, awareness is good. I agree. Yes, I’d love to
live in a more aware society, umm hmm. Then I read the next sentence and I’m
brought up short.

We all need love, acceptance, compassion. Compassion is one of the most
healing things going! Power and control, on the other hand, just get
people’s backs up, thrust them into dysfunctional modes of thinking and
perpetuate a lack of awareness all around.

Just my two cents,
Tiger

PS I bet if you took a shot of heroin, you would experience bliss! (not
that I’m suggesting you do) I believe it is just how human beings are wired.
We’ve all got the same neurotransmitters, more or less.

Hi Tiger,

Well, I seem to recall, from the days when I used to go to conferences and
stuff, that studies have shown that only a small percentage of school kids
who used heroin developed a habit. (Howard Parker in Sheffield, or something
like that, about 1000 individuals studied). This is not quite the same as
what you’re saying, I appreciate, but it shows that the drug of itself is
not necessarily addicting. I don’t know if anyone knows what makes a
difference but I’d be willing to bet that, psychologically, it relates
strongly to “ego orientation” vs “underlying levels of feeling.” If you’ve
developed a self-image that requires you to repress more feelings than the
endogenous opiates in your body can do, then taking heroin is going to make
you feel pretty good. I would personally say that this is very likely one
psychological mechanism behind addiction. This would explain why so many
addicts do come from relatively high trauma backgrounds. For, as kids, we
learn that to “get things” and to “be popular” we need to be able to keep
our feelings a bit under control, not just likely to collapse from
overfeeling at any time.

With bliss, (or anxiety for that matter), these are experiential things
and no neuroscientist can explain them beyond pointing a little at things
that seem to be involved. What is clear is that the states are relative to
one another. If you’re basically a happy person bliss is inevitably less
attractive than if you’re an anxious person.

About awareness, yes, I would love to force everyone to be more aware!
And, inevitably, it doesn’t really work like that! But that’s my position
anyway. What to do? Yes, compassion is needed, sometimes a lot of it. Also,
all the power and control at times. I’m not so busy with how I think society
should be, or trying to like Understand the world, I just put my position
out really. About choice, well, it seems like a great thing, for sure, but
to me it’s a little the same as trying to push compassion at the expense of
power. In philosophy or spirituality or whatever, some people believe that
free will exists, others that the universe is entirely deterministic. Who
the fuck knows? Both are cool viewpoints, and I personally wouldn’t just
want to just trapped in just one of them.

Is it cool to allow someone you care about to carry on fucking their life
up because you believe so much in their free will? Not for me! I like to
have the guts to take a position. And, to be honest, it’s a little bit what
I miss in this list, where half the time everyone seems to be talking it up
all nice but actually underneath there are shed-loads of feelings. I don’t
know if this says anything significant about ibogaine, or about the people
who are attracted to administering it, or what. But I notice it.

Nick

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: “Billy J” <billjohnson6@sympatico.ca>
Subject: [Ibogaine] Why Be Mean?
Date: April 4, 2006 at 12:17:26 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

If Us druggies need scientoligists what does the rest of you need?

Please be nice or go read a book>
Thanks and please just apoligise for being mean (without excuse) and move on, It is easy to be mean – antbody can, Try to be nice when you are feeling mean,
When you can do that then you can call yourself a MAN.
Good Night Ya All

Billy Boy

—-Original Message Follows—-
From: Crooked Eye <iboganaut420@yahoo.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Pot calling the Kettle Black?
Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2006 20:36:38 -0700 (PDT)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Received: from tomts3-srv.bellnexxia.net ([209.226.175.115]) by bay0-pamc1-f11.bay0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Mon, 3 Apr 2006 20:37:12 -0700
Received: from toip5.bellnexxia.net ([209.226.175.88])          by tomts3-srv.bellnexxia.net          (InterMail vM.5.01.06.13 201-253-122-130-113-20050324) with ESMTP          id <20060404033816.JVE19199.tomts3-srv.bellnexxia.net@toip5.bellnexxia.net>          for <billjohnson6@sympatico.ca>; Mon, 3 Apr 2006 23:38:16 -0400
Received: from tanelorn.mindvox.com (HELO mail.mindvox.com) ([64.124.179.118])  by toip5.bellnexxia.net with ESMTP; 03 Apr 2006 23:37:11 -0400
Received: (qmail 12301 invoked by uid 513); 3 Apr 2006 23:37:08 -0400
Received: (qmail 12292 invoked by uid 514); 3 Apr 2006 23:37:08 -0400
X-Message-Info: moY6YVwXQ45HxveqJh1soofSX6OdRulhteE0rfSMVvk=
Mailing-List: contact ibogaine-help@mindvox.com; run by ezmlm
Precedence: bulk
X-No-Archive: yes
List-Post: <mailto:ibogaine@mindvox.com>
List-Help: <mailto:ibogaine-help@mindvox.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:ibogaine-unsubscribe@mindvox.com>
List-Subscribe: <mailto:ibogaine-subscribe@mindvox.com>
Delivered-To: mailing list ibogaine@mindvox.com
X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.2 required=4.0
X-Antivirus-MYDOMAIN-Mail-From: iboganaut420@yahoo.com via tanelorn.mindvox.com
X-Antivirus-MYDOMAIN: 1.25-st-qms (Clear:RC:0(68.142.200.98):SA:0(0.2/4.0):. Processed in 5.028593 secs Process 12219)
Return-Path: ibogaine-return-23261-billjohnson6=sympatico.ca@mindvox.com
X-OriginalArrivalTime: 04 Apr 2006 03:37:12.0775 (UTC) FILETIME=[0F77A570:01C65799]

I think maybe the scientologists with there meters and stuff could cure all you druggies!!

Alan Hehe <a.h.veil68@hotmail.com> wrote:   Nick…you are soooo full of shit. That’s exactly what you said, and you’re lucky I don’t have the e-mail anymore or I’d shove it down your lying, cyber throat!!!!!
Come on..Preston, someone…does anyone have that email, the one where I posted the medical info I think might have his actual statement on it….I would appreciate if someone could send it back to me. Almost word for word what you said was (grammatical errors included) “Opiate is an analgesic. It stops feeling. Only someone with alot of repressed emotions receive bliss from analgesics, like opiates….” (you also said something about ego-orientation)…then you said “if you can think of another reason I’d love to hear it.”  Now I’m positive that I want nothing more to do with you…so let sleeping dogs lie, or I swear I will rip you apart…and that way, you won’t have to “be manipulated anymore!” You dug your own grave with a drstically stupid statement, and you’re too full of yourself to just say…”hey, I was wrong”. Now, for the second time, BYE!!!!!

———————————
From: “Nick Sandberg” <nick227@tiscali.co.uk>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Pot calling the Kettle Black?
Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2006 08:53:07 +0100

—–Original Message—–
From: Alan Hehe [mailto:a.h.veil68@hotmail.com]
Sent: 02 April 2006 17:32
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] Pot calling the Kettle Black?

Hey…uh, Biscuit Boy,
What’s the matter? Do you NOT like my debate with Nick, or do you just not like the fact that Ann paid me a compliment? Do you agree with Nick’s idea that only emotionally repressed individuals receive any sort of high from opiates? If you’ve got something to say, why not come out and say it? Have you never done opiates? Or any drugs? What gives you the right to judge Ann? Personally I don’t care if her comment was influened by a whole gram of Mexican brown! Better a nice compliment from someone high, than a nasty one from someone sober! Now, if I’ve misconstrued your intent, I apologize, but I would appreciate a logical explanation rather than a low-blow insinuation.

Hi Alan,
only emotionally repressed individuals receive any sort of high from opiates – I did not make such an extreme statement. I said there was a relationship between the two, that the bliss experienced on opiates relates to the degree of ego-repressed feeling. You grab stuff, exaggerate it to an extreme position and then criticize your own interpretation. Welcome to the wonderful world of manipulation! I see a great career in media or politics opening up before you.
BTW, this IS the classic trait for someone who is using belief patterns to hold down feelings. If something challenges the belief then repressed feelings start to rise “OMG, what if I’m really like so!” or whatever and the mind acts to push the feelings back down again, rearranging what is said into something it can criticize and expel. Frankly, I also see myself doing it at times! Letting go of beliefs can be a toughie.
Nick

———————————

From:  biscuitboy714@aol.com
Reply-To:  ibogaine@mindvox.com
To:  ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject:  Re: [Ibogaine] Opiate effects
Date:  Sun, 02 Apr 2006 11:05:09 -0400
>Yea Ann, tell us how much heroin you shot last night. He He I
>couldn’t help it. I love you Mamma           Randy
>
>—–Original Message—–
>From: Alan Hehe <a.h.veil68@hotmail.com>
>To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
>Sent: Sat, 01 Apr 2006 11:15:03 -0500
>Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Opiate effects
>
>     Hey Ann,
>
>     Thank you for the compliment…Somebody’s got to try to counter
>his crazy ideas with some sense. Feel free to write me anytime..I
>really enjoy talking to people on this list and hearing their
>stories…Oh, don’t tell anyone, but I studied semantics and debate
>in high school! Just kidding…about the hush hush, as anyone will
>be able to read this. Oh, heck–LOL! I’m 37, and High school is but
>a distant, mainly unplesant experience…except when I would catch
>my English teacher making grammatical or syntactical mistakes,
>before they moved me into an A.P. college-level class…And no, I’m
>not conceited, either..but I do enjoy debate! Everyone has certain
>qualities at which they excel, and others at which they are
>deficient. I make up for my skill in English by being a retard in
>math! Plus, I couldn’t be that smart or I wouldn’t be here, looking
>for a way out of the hell-hole I dug for myself….and despite
>having a really shitty childhood, I take complete responsibility for
>my current position in
>life……………………………….Wishing you the best in
>all…….Alan.
>
>
>
>  ——–
>From: “Ann B. Mullikin” <think@francomm.com>
>Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
>To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
>Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Opiate effects
>Date: Sat, 1 Apr 2006 10:04:20 -0500
>
>  No, I am not Nick but…..
>
>  Bravo, Alan.  I surely do appreciate the way you use your brain –
>TO THINK AND TO REASON.  Its good stuff.  Keep on.
>
>ann
>think@francomm.com
>
>  —– Original Message —–
>From: Alan Hehe
>To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
>Sent: Friday,  March 31, 2006 4:49 PM
>Subject: [Ibogaine] Opiate effects
>
>
>    Hey Nick,
>
>     I wanted to say that, although I was basically right, I believe
>(and according to the research I’ve done) about the reason opiates
>cause pleasure, I wasn’t entirely correct about the natural opiates
>(dopamine,etc) having an effect on mood. They do have an affect on
>mood..but then again, so does euphoria..in fact, it could be said to
>be a mood unto itself. Here’s a little medical info for: Opiates
>(heroin, morphine, etc.)
>
>  The human body naturally produces its own opiate-like substances
>and uses them as neurotransmitters. These substances include
>endorphins, enkephalins, and dynorphin, often collectively known as
>endogenous opioids.  Endogenous opioids modulate our reactions to
>painful stimuli. They also regulate vital functions such as hunger
>and thirst and are involved in mood control, immune response, and
>other processes.
>
>The reason that opiates such as heroin and morphine affect us so
>powerfully is that these exogenous substances bind to the same
>receptors as our endogenous opioids. There are three kinds of
>receptors widely distributed throughout the brain: mu, delta, and
>kappa receptors.
>
>These receptors, through second messengers, influence the likelihood
>that ion channels will open, which in certain cases reduces the
>excitability of neurons. This reduced excitability is the likely
>source of the euphoric effect of opiates and appears to be mediated
>by the mu and delta  receptors.
>
>This euphoric effect also appears to involve another mechanism in
>which the GABA-inhibitory interneurons of the ventral tegmental area
>come into play. By attaching to their mu receptors, exogenous
>opioids reduce the amount of GABA released (see animation).
>Normally, GABA reduces the amount of dopamine released in the
>nucleus accumbens. By inhibiting this inhibitor, the opiates
>ultimately increase the amount of dopamine produced and the amount
>of pleasure felt.
>
>Chronic consumption of opiates inhibits the production of cAMP, but
>this inhibition is offset in the long run by other cAMP production
>mechanisms. When no opiates are available, this increased cAMP
>production capacity comes to the fore and results in neural
>hyperactivity and the sensation of craving the  drug.
>
>
>
>
>——–
>  Make FREE PC-to-PC calls with MSN Messenger. Get it now!
>/]=———————————————————————=
>[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands:
>http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
>\]=———————————————————————=
>[/
>
>
>——–
>  Find just what you’re after with the new, more precise MSN Search
>- try it now!
>/]=———————————————————————=
>[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands:
>http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
>\]=———————————————————————=
>[/
>
>
>
>
>/]=———————————————————————=[\
>[%] Ibogaine List Commands:
>http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
>
>\]=———————————————————————=[/
>
>

———————————
Be one of the first to try Windows Live Mail /]=———————————————————————=[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%] \]=———————————————————————=[/

———————————
Play Trivia with MSN Messenger for a chance to win an XBOX 360 prize pack! /]=———————————————————————=[\  [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]   \]=———————————————————————=[/

———————————
Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. PC-to-Phone calls for ridiculously low rates.

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: “Billy J” <billjohnson6@sympatico.ca>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Stop getting trapped:Hello
Date: April 2, 2006 at 10:11:21 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

HALT- hungry, angry,lonely and or tired.

Bill here and Yes I can relate to being less than normal when I wake up and throughout the day.  Even today when I am home normally and not on a run, maybe its the Meth also, but I get serious twitchs as I near falling asleep, or sometimes I just drift off to sleep as soon as I slow down and stop moving, like reading to the kids or something.
But what are you talking about getting trapped?

IBOGAINE You mentioned that Ibogaine can ,or will give you back that stuff.

Well I am looking forward to a new life and I do want to look at my whole life, (with a Plan) with a new or renewed focuse and everything that is good.
NOT everything that FEELS good!

Love this Place So Far .
Good Night Folks.

P.S.Callie Barb? Nick So Far So Good,
Tomorrow will be day one of 3 I will now have to endure being without, so I might not write for a couple of days.

Blessings to all
Bill

—-Original Message Follows—-
From: Edfriedrichs@aol.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] Stop getting trapped:
Date: Sun, 2 Apr 2006 19:05:42 EDT
MIME-Version: 1.0
Received: from tomts3-srv.bellnexxia.net ([209.226.175.115]) by bay0-pamc1-f2.bay0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Sun, 2 Apr 2006 17:22:25 -0700
Received: from toip7.bellnexxia.net ([209.226.175.175])          by tomts3-srv.bellnexxia.net          (InterMail vM.5.01.06.13 201-253-122-130-113-20050324) with ESMTP          id <20060403002328.ZIXY19199.tomts3-srv.bellnexxia.net@toip7.bellnexxia.net>          for <billjohnson6@sympatico.ca>; Sun, 2 Apr 2006 20:23:28 -0400
Received: from tanelorn.mindvox.com (HELO mail.mindvox.com) ([64.124.179.118])  by toip7.bellnexxia.net with ESMTP; 02 Apr 2006 20:22:18 -0400
Received: (qmail 16276 invoked by uid 513); 2 Apr 2006 20:22:17 -0400
Received: (qmail 16270 invoked by uid 514); 2 Apr 2006 20:22:17 -0400
X-Message-Info: moY6YVwXQ44ojGrvD6zM/aKVdrI4FoZvfZ/RGveND4U=
Mailing-List: contact ibogaine-help@mindvox.com; run by ezmlm
Precedence: bulk
X-No-Archive: yes
List-Post: <mailto:ibogaine@mindvox.com>
List-Help: <mailto:ibogaine-help@mindvox.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:ibogaine-unsubscribe@mindvox.com>
List-Subscribe: <mailto:ibogaine-subscribe@mindvox.com>
Delivered-To: mailing list ibogaine@mindvox.com
X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.7 required=4.0
X-Antivirus-MYDOMAIN-Mail-From: edfriedrichs@aol.com via tanelorn.mindvox.com
X-Antivirus-MYDOMAIN: 1.25-st-qms (Clear:RC:0(205.188.156.66):SA:0(0.7/4.0):. Processed in 0.282175 secs Process 16262)
X-Mailer: 7.0 for Windows sub 10708
X-Antivirus-MYDOMAIN-MOVED-X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-AOL-IP: 172.18.150.229
Return-Path: ibogaine-return-23238-billjohnson6=sympatico.ca@mindvox.com
X-OriginalArrivalTime: 03 Apr 2006 00:22:25.0310 (UTC) FILETIME=[AEC843E0:01C656B4]

You guys/gals can’t decide whether you’re talking psychology or
micro-chemistry of the brain.  When are you going to pay attention to SLEEP, SLEEP
DEPRIVATION and SLEEP REPLACEMENT……..before, during and after drug abuse?  All
drugs of abuse destroy normal sleep physiology, leaving the user with an
chemicaly “exhausted/depleted” brain, fraught with anxiety, impulses and rage, not to
mention self-depreciation and obsessions……ALL the sequelae of a tired
brain.  Doctors also make this most frustrating, because they not only ignore
sleep, but CAN’T treat it with anything safe.  The most severe SLEEP DEPRIVATION
in addiction is that of REM-Stage Dreaming Sleep, and we get very, very, very
far behind in that essental emotionally uplifting by physically
“exhausting”/relaxing Stage of Sleep.  Only Ibogaine (et other psychedelics) “replaces” lost
REM-Sleep, which is necessary to be “born again,” feel loved, worthwhile and
optimistic, as we did as infants!  After Ibogaine, if we can’t find a “normal”
amount of sleep each night, week or month, we will relapse into the same
frightful state of exhaustion with Anxiety, Impulses, Rage and Compulsions.  Most
of you MAY have a significant physically, not psychologically, impaired Sleep
Mechanism, which is not likely to return to baseline, without some chemical
manipulation of the Sleep Mechanism, about which orthodox medicine/psychiatry are
not even “curious” as yet, not to mention still producing “drugs” which
further destroy normal healing Sleep.  Any comments?  I’m waiting patiently!  Dr.
Ed

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: “Billy J” <billjohnson6@sympatico.ca>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] this list is messed up! Me Too
Date: April 3, 2006 at 8:24:02 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hey Callie hello and yes I am getting the same messages, It says to not reply that the messages are getting there? but are being delayed?
Got Me, I NO Nothing.

Hope my last couplem posts from yesterday got through–  Well Maybe I hope.

Bill
—-Original Message Follows—-
From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] this list is messed up!
Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2006 14:34:06 EDT
MIME-Version: 1.0
Received: from tomts38-srv.bellnexxia.net ([209.226.175.95]) by bay0-pamc1-f13.bay0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Mon, 3 Apr 2006 11:57:19 -0700
Received: from toip7.bellnexxia.net ([209.226.175.175])          by tomts38-srv.bellnexxia.net          (InterMail vM.5.01.06.13 201-253-122-130-113-20050324) with ESMTP          id <20060403185718.ZDHL29863.tomts38-srv.bellnexxia.net@toip7.bellnexxia.net>          for <billjohnson6@sympatico.ca>; Mon, 3 Apr 2006 14:57:18 -0400
Received: from tanelorn.mindvox.com (HELO mail.mindvox.com) ([64.124.179.118])  by toip7.bellnexxia.net with ESMTP; 03 Apr 2006 14:57:14 -0400
Received: (qmail 23934 invoked by uid 513); 3 Apr 2006 14:57:12 -0400
Received: (qmail 23926 invoked by uid 514); 3 Apr 2006 14:57:12 -0400
X-Message-Info: moY6YVwXQ44NYLiKyergxk85d6D2RlQB5QucKzXgRO4=
Mailing-List: contact ibogaine-help@mindvox.com; run by ezmlm
Precedence: bulk
X-No-Archive: yes
List-Post: <mailto:ibogaine@mindvox.com>
List-Help: <mailto:ibogaine-help@mindvox.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:ibogaine-unsubscribe@mindvox.com>
List-Subscribe: <mailto:ibogaine-subscribe@mindvox.com>
Delivered-To: mailing list ibogaine@mindvox.com
X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.1 required=4.0
X-Antivirus-MYDOMAIN-Mail-From: calliemimosa@aol.com via tanelorn.mindvox.com
X-Antivirus-MYDOMAIN: 1.25-st-qms (Clear:RC:0(64.12.137.1):SA:0(0.1/4.0):. Processed in 3.235406 secs Process 23918)
X-Mailer: 9.0 Security Edition for Windows sub 2340
X-Antivirus-MYDOMAIN-MOVED-X-Spam-Flag: NO
Return-Path: ibogaine-return-23244-billjohnson6=sympatico.ca@mindvox.com
X-OriginalArrivalTime: 03 Apr 2006 18:57:19.0829 (UTC) FILETIME=[6F05D050:01C65750]

I have been getting some messages from postmaster saying messages delayed
and/or undeliverable. Anyone else having this problem?
Some of the posts I am not getting. I read the replies you folks are  writing
but did not receive original message.
Callie

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: “Billy J” <billjohnson6@sympatico.ca>
Subject: [Ibogaine] Angela & Colleen
Date: April 3, 2006 at 11:42:31 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Welcome Angela, I am new too and I don’t have much hope in myself yet but as long as we have even a little hope it will only improve ,stick it out and then you’ll be able to shout! lol.

Hey Colleen That is the TESTIMONIE that I needed to here, YES YES YES, now you must tell tell tell and let me know (and others) your Vast experiance with Ibogaine, who when where how???
Stuf We need to know and what you would do to even improve, what did you need what did ya get and so on and so on and so on and on, PLEASE.

I can tell you that it is words , yes real life truthful words that will Build us or Brake Us. YES?
Ready to quit  “BUT!

By By
From
Bill

—-Original Message Follows—-
From: “angela baker” <angela71263@hotmail.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] New to the list
Date: Mon, 03 Apr 2006 17:05:51 -0600
MIME-Version: 1.0
Received: from tomts32-srv.bellnexxia.net ([209.226.175.106]) by bay0-pamc1-f12.bay0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Mon, 3 Apr 2006 20:05:56 -0700
Received: from toip6.bellnexxia.net ([209.226.175.174])          by tomts32-srv.bellnexxia.net          (InterMail vM.5.01.06.13 201-253-122-130-113-20050324) with ESMTP          id <20060404030555.JYBO15100.tomts32-srv.bellnexxia.net@toip6.bellnexxia.net>          for <billjohnson6@sympatico.ca>; Mon, 3 Apr 2006 23:05:55 -0400
Received: from tanelorn.mindvox.com (HELO mail.mindvox.com) ([64.124.179.118])  by toip6.bellnexxia.net with ESMTP; 03 Apr 2006 23:05:54 -0400
Received: (qmail 24767 invoked by uid 513); 3 Apr 2006 23:05:51 -0400
Received: (qmail 24761 invoked by uid 514); 3 Apr 2006 23:05:51 -0400
X-Message-Info: moY6YVwXQ45gHiesxPHXVuT3FpybU8lSsG4z0uyAPPM=
Mailing-List: contact ibogaine-help@mindvox.com; run by ezmlm
Precedence: bulk
X-No-Archive: yes
List-Post: <mailto:ibogaine@mindvox.com>
List-Help: <mailto:ibogaine-help@mindvox.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:ibogaine-unsubscribe@mindvox.com>
List-Subscribe: <mailto:ibogaine-subscribe@mindvox.com>
Delivered-To: mailing list ibogaine@mindvox.com
X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.8 required=4.0
X-Antivirus-MYDOMAIN-Mail-From: angela71263@hotmail.com via tanelorn.mindvox.com
X-Antivirus-MYDOMAIN: 1.25-st-qms (Clear:RC:0(65.54.161.43):SA:0(-1.8/4.0):. Processed in 6.886085 secs Process 24720)
Return-Path: ibogaine-return-23257-billjohnson6=sympatico.ca@mindvox.com
X-OriginalArrivalTime: 04 Apr 2006 03:05:56.0420 (UTC) FILETIME=[B1129840:01C65794]

Congratulations!!…I’m very envious of you!…at least you have the money to get help!…My abusive relationship has left me broke and starting over…so I’m trying to find some underground help here in Colorado…if you have any suggestions or ideas please let me know!

From: COLLEEN COLLEEN <cjones2929@sbcglobal.net>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] New  to the list
Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2006 04:21:08 -0800 (PST)

Howdy. . . not sure what to say or where to start.  six weeks since my session which was by far the best one yet. six weeks off all the chemicals. it’s interesting, the method of administration was different than mexico in 2003 (strung out) or the ceremony in 2004 (clean) and feeling like this gradual method was not only gentle yet far reaching internally. . .Safe . .  time will tell  I am just SO fucking grateful to wake up clean and not sick.  I have been reading some of the e mails from the list …and the one thing I am hearing and I get and have is a loving supportive network that want me healthy.  i have eliminated the negative.  the one thing i would like to be different, is that i could allow more time to heal before jumping back into the fast paced life that i live, somehow slow it down, it’s definetly my goal, however the kid, the job, the bills don’t quite allow it YET.  the county condones the rat race.  Whatever, most importantly, is that the spirt of Iboga saved my life
again and offered a way out of the dark dark world of drug addiction.  Okay so I am rambling on, yeah… still hoping for sleep, though it’s so much better, at first for several weeks i would go a hell of a long time not sleeping, part of the deal coming of the juice.  so amazing tojump off the clinic and the next week be free of the stuff, no withdrawl. what a miracle medicine.  have i written too much?  wishing my ibo brothers and sisters MANY BLESSINGS!
Thanks for the angry alien website

_________________________________________________________________
Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today – it’s FREE! http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: “Alan Hehe” <a.h.veil68@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Opiates
Date: April 2, 2006 at 7:28:22 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Dear Callie,
I don’t want to get another person upset at me, but your statements, and agreeing with Nick seem contradictory. In other words, you wrote:
“Personally they do not stop me from feeling….that exaggerate euphoria but I still feel shame, sadness, guilt, etc.”…
I totally agree and they react the same with me…I still experience the same range of emotions I always have. Yet Nick says:If they take a drug which helps to push all the feelings back into unconsciousness, an analgesic like heroin for example, then it will feel blissful
Now you are saying that you still experience all the emotions you always did, and he is saying that opiates “stop all feeling” (from a previous post) and “push all feelings back into unconsciouness.”

This two statements seem obviously contradictory to me. And the reason I pasted the medical info into the one post is because Nick wrote–and unfortunately I don’t have the post, so I can’t diretly copy it, but I promise that this is almost exactly what he said: “if you experience bliss from an analgesic, like morphine, it’s because you have alot of repressed feelings. If you can think of another reason, I would love to hear it.”…..so, I gave him one–opiates affecting the pleasure/reward center of the brain. His statement implies that unless you are emotionally repressed, you will not get high from an opiate–and that’s simply not true.
I do, however, agree with you about chemicals affecting everyone differently…I would even go as far to say that his confrontational therapy may help a few people, but I think few is the operational word here. Also, with a substance like ibogaine around, which truly does (from what I’ve heard..and experienced myself from other hallucinogens, especially psilocybin(the active ingredient in one form of hallucinogenic mushrooms..the one’s that grow out of cow dung) hold a mirror up to one’s deepest personality aspects (and without a bunch of obscene shouting) why do we need people like Nick? Most of the people on this list that I’ve read dis-agree with his methods…Also, because he’s never actually experienced either the euphoria of opiates, or the hell of withdrawal, I must admit that I do have a prejudice against his judgement…It’s like someone teaching swimming who has never been in the water.
But who knows..I could be wrong. But I DO know that one does not have to be emotionally repressed in order to feel a high from opiates…that’s sheer hogwash. But I do believe he’s totally entitled to his beliefs and right to speak them…But he does scare me a little..like his statement about wishing he had the means to compel everyone into confrontational therapy….and–not to insult your intelligence, but in case you misconstrue the meaning of compel, here’s the def. from the Oxford Modern Eng. Dict. “to force through submission…”
And I hate the idea of anyone forcing anyone to do anything, regardless of whether it’s helpful to them or not–in fact, if it were going to be helpful, that helpfullness would most likely be destroyed due to the fact that the person is not doing it out of free will.
Best wishes to you, Callie. I hope what I’ve “said” makes some sense to you…………………………Sincerely, Alan.

From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Opiates
Date: Sat, 1 Apr 2006 19:29:37 EST

You know, I don’t know if pharmacology is even important in what you all are discussing.

I think that opiates react differently in everyone. Maybe the physiological actions are the same but folks respond to the results differently.

Personally they do not stop me from feeling….that exaggerate euphoria but I still feel shame, sadness, guilt, etc.

Nick states, “From that, I don’t think it’s unreasonable to suggest that, if someone is struggling to hold down excess feelings, they will experience high levels of daily anxiety. If they take a drug which helps to push all the feelings back into unconsciousness, an analgesic like heroin for example, then it will feel blissful. The anxiety is gone for a while and it feels great. This seems pretty reasonable to me.”

Sounds reasonable to me too!

Callie

See if you’ve won, play MSN Search and Win /]=———————————————————————=[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%] \]=———————————————————————=[/

From: “Alan Hehe” <a.h.veil68@hotmail.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] here it is—the stuff in blue are your exact words!
Date: April 3, 2006 at 11:40:17 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hey Nick…
Although I agree with you that opiates do have a dampening effect on strong emotions, but I don’t see all that much agreement between what you originally said, and what this medical text explains..This is what you wrote:If you experience bliss    from an analgesic it is because your body is struggling to hold down a lot of    feelings your ego has decided it doesn’t want to have. I don’t see another    reason for it, happy to hear one if you have it.
Now, where in the medical text does it say anything about emotional repression being the cause–and the only cause, you seem to believe, since you asked for another reason, which I have given you–for euphoria from opiates? Opiates block physical pain; because of the euphoria, strong emotions may seem a little less intense..just like when you’re in good shape and healthy, as opposed to the opposite. Anyone who takes a strong opiate, like morphine, is going to experience a general feeling of well-being, if not outright euphoria, regardless of their emotional well-being. Your agreement with the medical “answer” seems to be in direct contradiction to the statement you made above, which I copied and pasted from your own e-mail. I do apologize if you receive more than one of these type letters…for some reason, the Ibogaine Newsletter sent me another “welcome to” message last night, despite the fact that I was already subscribed, and have been for some time…it also seemed like my posts just weren’t going through, but perhaps they were, just at the speed of dripping sap.
I do agree that your confrontational method could benefit some people, but I think that number would be small. I also believe that, as far as permanently giving up the use or abuse of any drug cannot be brought about by any amount of talking, whether it be your form, or some more gentle approach, 12 steps, whatever. The only thing that going to stop an addict from using is first a decision deep within themselves that they are utterly sick of the shit..unfortunately, many people have to bottom out over and over before they ever reach this point. And others simply never reach it. The second thing the addict needs is Ibogaine, if it truly works–for this will alleviate the unspeakable horrors of withdrawal AND bring them into confrontation with their emotional selves in a way that confrontational therapy never could. I do agree that an addict–esp. one that has recently kicked, is going to have emotional issues–because suddenly the rose-colored glasses will be gone, and the world will be seen and felt in all its intensity, good and bad. That’s the point when they need gentle guidance.
Well…I don’t think we’ll ever be great friends, but I want you to know that I am not just reacting–I have thought about your theraputic approach, and will concede that it may help those in extreme denial…but for people like me, who are quite aware of their situation, and desperately want out, all it would be is deeply offensive. I would never submit to such a thing, and if it were tried without my consent, then the therapist may find himself in a Jiu-Jitsu arm bar, if not a more traditional punch in the face. But back to the point I had set out to make: I don’t write these because I am seeking to be your enemy, or a thorn in your side. In fact, now that I’ve said my piece, and given you your “any other reason than emotional repression for opiates causing bliss” you won’t hear much from me directed at you. Because although I may disagree, I am reserving complete judgement….And everyone has a right to his or her opinions and right to speak them.
Sincerely, Alan.

From: “Nick Sandberg” <nick227@tiscali.co.uk>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Opiate effects
Date: Sat, 1 Apr 2006 13:19:16 +0100

—–Original Message—–
From: Alan Hehe [mailto:a.h.veil68@hotmail.com]
Sent: 31 March 2006 22:50
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] Opiate effects

Hey Nick,

I wanted to say that, although I was basically right, I believe (and according to the research I’ve done) about the reason opiates cause pleasure, I wasn’t entirely correct about the natural opiates (dopamine,etc) having an effect on mood. They do have an affect on mood..but then again, so does euphoria..in fact, it could be said to be a mood unto itself. Here’s a little medical info for:
Hi Alan,
Thank you for researching more.
Opiates (heroin, morphine, etc.)
The human body naturally produces its own opiate-like substances and uses them as neurotransmitters. These substances include endorphins, enkephalins, and dynorphin, often collectively known as endogenous opioids.
Endogenous opioids modulate our reactions to painful stimuli.
Yes, this is what I understand too. They mediate the repression of feeling. They are the natural means by which we push feelings back into unconsciousness – feelings of pain, or simply feelings we don’t want to have.
They also regulate vital functions such as hunger and thirst and are involved in mood control, immune response, and other processes. 

The reason that opiates such as heroin and morphine affect us so powerfully is that these exogenous substances bind to the same receptors as our endogenous opioids.
Yes, they back up the body’s own system for repressing feeling. If someone is so overloaded with pain or other feelings that they cannot cope then exogenous opioids are good.
There are three kinds of receptors widely distributed throughout the brain: mu, delta, and kappa receptors.
These receptors, through second messengers, influence the likelihood that ion channels will open, which in certain cases reduces the excitability of neurons. This reduced excitability is the likely source of the euphoric effect of opiates and appears to be mediated by the mu and delta receptors. 

This euphoric effect also appears to involve another mechanism in which the GABA-inhibitory interneurons of the ventral tegmental area come into play. By attaching to their mu receptors, exogenous opioids reduce the amount of GABA released (see animation). Normally, GABA reduces the amount of dopamine released in the nucleus accumbens. By inhibiting this inhibitor, the opiates ultimately increase the amount of dopamine produced and the amount of pleasure felt.
Yes, we agree, it seems! If there is inadequate endogenous opiate present to repress feeling then anxiety results. If there is adequate or it’s backed up with exogenous opiate then life seems more blissful.
Chronic consumption of opiates inhibits the production of cAMP, but this inhibition is offset in the long run by other cAMP production mechanisms. When no opiates are available, this increased cAMP production capacity comes to the fore and results in neural hyperactivity and the sensation of craving the drug.
Yes, and whatever the cause, one solution is to open the body emotionally. If someone can simply BE with more feeling, then they have less need for exogenous substances. And this is what I’m saying, baby. If you can diminish the psychological causes of anxiety, ie through encounter therapy or whatever, people no longer need the drugs to be high.

Nick

Play Trivia with MSN Messenger for a chance to win an XBOX™ 360 prize pack!  /]=———————————————————————=[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%] \]=———————————————————————=[/

From: Crooked Eye <iboganaut420@yahoo.com>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Pot calling the Kettle Black?
Date: April 3, 2006 at 11:36:38 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I think maybe the scientologists with there meters and stuff could cure all you druggies!!

Alan Hehe <a.h.veil68@hotmail.com> wrote:
Nick…you are soooo full of shit. That’s exactly what you said, and you’re lucky I don’t have the e-mail anymore or I’d shove it down your lying, cyber throat!!!!!
Come on..Preston, someone…does anyone have that email, the one where I posted the medical info I think might have his actual statement on it….I would appreciate if someone could send it back to me. Almost word for word what you said was (grammatical errors included) “Opiate is an analgesic. It stops feeling. Only someone with alot of repressed emotions receive bliss from analgesics, like opiates….” (you also said something about ego-orientation)…then you said “if you can think of another reason I’d love to hear it.”  Now I’m positive that I want nothing more to do with you…so let sleeping dogs lie, or I swear I will rip you apart…and that way, you won’t have to “be manipulated anymore!” You dug your own grave with a drstically stupid statement, and you’re too full of yourself to just say…”hey, I was wrong”. Now, for the second time, BYE!!!!!

From: “Nick Sandberg” <nick227@tiscali.co.uk>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Pot calling the Kettle Black?
Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2006 08:53:07 +0100

—–Original Message—–
From: Alan Hehe [mailto:a.h.veil68@hotmail.com]
Sent: 02 April 2006 17:32
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] Pot calling the Kettle Black?

Hey…uh, Biscuit Boy,
What’s the matter? Do you NOT like my debate with Nick, or do you just not like the fact that Ann paid me a compliment? Do you agree with Nick’s idea that only emotionally repressed individuals receive any sort of high from opiates? If you’ve got something to say, why not come out and say it? Have you never done opiates? Or any drugs? What gives you the right to judge Ann? Personally I don’t care if her comment was influened by a whole gram of Mexican brown! Better a nice compliment from someone high, than a nasty one from someone sober! Now, if I’ve misconstrued your intent, I apologize, but I would appreciate a logical explanation rather than a low-blow insinuation.

Hi Alan,
only emotionally repressed individuals receive any sort of high from opiates – I did not make such an extreme statement. I said there was a relationship between the two, that the bliss experienced on opiates relates to the degree of ego-repressed feeling. You grab stuff, exaggerate it to an extreme position and then criticize your own interpretation. Welcome to the wonderful world of manipulation! I see a great career in media or politics opening up before you.
BTW, this IS the classic trait for someone who is using belief patterns to hold down feelings. If something challenges the belief then repressed feelings start to rise “OMG, what if I’m really like so!” or whatever and the mind acts to push the feelings back down again, rearranging what is said into something it can criticize and expel. Frankly, I also see myself doing it at times! Letting go of beliefs can be a toughie.
Nick
From:  biscuitboy714@aol.com
Reply-To:  ibogaine@mindvox.com
To:  ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject:  Re: [Ibogaine] Opiate effects
Date:  Sun, 02 Apr 2006 11:05:09 -0400
>Yea Ann, tell us how much heroin you shot last night. He He I
>couldn’t help it. I love you Mamma           Randy
>
>—–Original Message—–
>From: Alan Hehe <a.h.veil68@hotmail.com>
>To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
>Sent: Sat, 01 Apr 2006 11:15:03 -0500
>Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Opiate effects
>
>     Hey Ann,
>
>     Thank you for the compliment…Somebody’s got to try to counter
>his crazy ideas with some sense. Feel free to write me anytime..I
>really enjoy talking to people on this list and hearing their
>stories…Oh, don’t tell anyone, but I studied semantics and debate
>in high school! Just kidding…about the hush hush, as anyone will
>be able to read this. Oh, heck–LOL! I’m 37, and High school is but
>a distant, mainly unplesant experience…except when I would catch
>my English teacher making grammatical or syntactical mistakes,
>before they moved me into an A.P. college-level class…And no, I’m
>not conceited, either..but I do enjoy debate! Everyone has certain
>qualities at which they excel, and others at which they are
>deficient. I make up for my skill in English by being a retard in
>math! Plus, I couldn’t be that smart or I wouldn’t be here, looking
>for a way out of the hell-hole I dug for myself….and despite
>having a really shitty childhood, I take complete responsibility for
>my current position in
>life……………………………….Wishing you the best in
>all…….Alan.
>
>
>
>  ——–
>From: “Ann B. Mullikin” <think@francomm.com>
>Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
>To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
>Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Opiate effects
>Date: Sat, 1 Apr 2006 10:04:20 -0500
>
>  No, I am not Nick but…..
>
>  Bravo, Alan.  I surely do appreciate the way you use your brain –
>TO THINK AND TO REASON.  Its good stuff.  Keep on.
>
>ann
>think@francomm.com
>
>  —– Original Message —–
>From: Alan Hehe
>To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
>Sent: Friday, March 31, 2006 4:49 PM
>Subject: [Ibogaine] Opiate effects
>
>
>    Hey Nick,
>
>     I wanted to say that, although I was basically right, I believe
>(and according to the research I’ve done) about the reason opiates
>cause pleasure, I wasn’t entirely correct about the natural opiates
>(dopamine,etc) having an effect on mood. They do have an affect on
>mood..but then again, so does euphoria..in fact, it could be said to
>be a mood unto itself. Here’s a little medical info for: Opiates
>(heroin, morphine, etc.)
>
>  The human body naturally produces its own opiate-like substances
>and uses them as neurotransmitters. These substances include
>endorphins, enkephalins, and dynorphin, often collectively known as
>endogenous opioids. Endogenous opioids modulate our reactions to
>painful stimuli. They also regulate vital functions such as hunger
>and thirst and are involved in mood control, immune response, and
>other processes.
>
>The reason that opiates such as heroin and morphine affect us so
>powerfully is that these exogenous substances bind to the same
>receptors as our endogenous opioids. There are three kinds of
>receptors widely distributed throughout the brain: mu, delta, and
>kappa receptors.
>
>These receptors, through second messengers, influence the likelihood
>that ion channels will open, which in certain cases reduces the
>excitability of neurons. This reduced excitability is the likely
>source of the euphoric effect of opiates and appears to be mediated
>by the mu and delta receptors.
>
>This euphoric effect also appears to involve another mechanism in
>which the GABA-inhibitory interneurons of the ventral tegmental area
>come into play. By attaching to their mu receptors, exogenous
>opioids reduce the amount of GABA released (see animation).
>Normally, GABA reduces the amount of dopamine released in the
>nucleus accumbens. By inhibiting this inhibitor, the opiates
>ultimately increase the amount of dopamine produced and the amount
>of pleasure felt.
>
>Chronic consumption of opiates inhibits the production of cAMP, but
>this inhibition is offset in the long run by other cAMP production
>mechanisms. When no opiates are available, this increased cAMP
>production capacity comes to the fore and results in neural
>hyperactivity and the sensation of craving the drug.
>
>
>
>
>——–
>  Make FREE PC-to-PC calls with MSN Messenger. Get it now!
>/]=———————————————————————=
>[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands:
>http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
>\]=———————————————————————=
>[/
>
>
>——–
>  Find just what you’re after with the new, more precise MSN Search
>- try it now!
>/]=———————————————————————=
>[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands:
>http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
>\]=———————————————————————=
>[/
>
>
>
>
>/]=———————————————————————=[\
>[%] Ibogaine List Commands:
>http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
>
>\]=———————————————————————=[/
>
>

Be one of the first to try Windows Live Mail /]=———————————————————————=[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%] \]=———————————————————————=[/

Play Trivia with MSN Messenger for a chance to win an XBOX� 360 prize pack!� /]=———————————————————————=[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%] \]=———————————————————————=[/

Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. PC-to-Phone calls for ridiculously low rates.

From: “Alan Hehe” <a.h.veil68@hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Pot calling the Kettle Black?
Date: April 3, 2006 at 11:33:48 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Nick…you are soooo full of shit. That’s exactly what you said, and you’re lucky I don’t have the e-mail anymore or I’d shove it down your lying, cyber throat!!!!!
Come on..Preston, someone…does anyone have that email, the one where I posted the medical info I think might have his actual statement on it….I would appreciate if someone could send it back to me. Almost word for word what you said was (grammatical errors included) “Opiate is an analgesic. It stops feeling. Only someone with alot of repressed emotions receive bliss from analgesics, like opiates….” (you also said something about ego-orientation)…then you said “if you can think of another reason I’d love to hear it.”  Now I’m positive that I want nothing more to do with you…so let sleeping dogs lie, or I swear I will rip you apart…and that way, you won’t have to “be manipulated anymore!” You dug your own grave with a drstically stupid statement, and you’re too full of yourself to just say…”hey, I was wrong”. Now, for the second time, BYE!!!!!

From: “Nick Sandberg” <nick227@tiscali.co.uk>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Pot calling the Kettle Black?
Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2006 08:53:07 +0100

—–Original Message—–
From: Alan Hehe [mailto:a.h.veil68@hotmail.com]
Sent: 02 April 2006 17:32
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] Pot calling the Kettle Black?

Hey…uh, Biscuit Boy,
What’s the matter? Do you NOT like my debate with Nick, or do you just not like the fact that Ann paid me a compliment? Do you agree with Nick’s idea that only emotionally repressed individuals receive any sort of high from opiates? If you’ve got something to say, why not come out and say it? Have you never done opiates? Or any drugs? What gives you the right to judge Ann? Personally I don’t care if her comment was influened by a whole gram of Mexican brown! Better a nice compliment from someone high, than a nasty one from someone sober! Now, if I’ve misconstrued your intent, I apologize, but I would appreciate a logical explanation rather than a low-blow insinuation.

Hi Alan,
only emotionally repressed individuals receive any sort of high from opiates – I did not make such an extreme statement. I said there was a relationship between the two, that the bliss experienced on opiates relates to the degree of ego-repressed feeling. You grab stuff, exaggerate it to an extreme position and then criticize your own interpretation. Welcome to the wonderful world of manipulation! I see a great career in media or politics opening up before you.
BTW, this IS the classic trait for someone who is using belief patterns to hold down feelings. If something challenges the belief then repressed feelings start to rise “OMG, what if I’m really like so!” or whatever and the mind acts to push the feelings back down again, rearranging what is said into something it can criticize and expel. Frankly, I also see myself doing it at times! Letting go of beliefs can be a toughie.
Nick

From:  biscuitboy714@aol.com
Reply-To:  ibogaine@mindvox.com
To:  ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject:  Re: [Ibogaine] Opiate effects
Date:  Sun, 02 Apr 2006 11:05:09 -0400
>Yea Ann, tell us how much heroin you shot last night. He He I
>couldn’t help it. I love you Mamma           Randy
>
>—–Original Message—–
>From: Alan Hehe <a.h.veil68@hotmail.com>
>To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
>Sent: Sat, 01 Apr 2006 11:15:03 -0500
>Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Opiate effects
>
>     Hey Ann,
>
>     Thank you for the compliment…Somebody’s got to try to counter
>his crazy ideas with some sense. Feel free to write me anytime..I
>really enjoy talking to people on this list and hearing their
>stories…Oh, don’t tell anyone, but I studied semantics and debate
>in high school! Just kidding…about the hush hush, as anyone will
>be able to read this. Oh, heck–LOL! I’m 37, and High school is but
>a distant, mainly unplesant experience…except when I would catch
>my English teacher making grammatical or syntactical mistakes,
>before they moved me into an A.P. college-level class…And no, I’m
>not conceited, either..but I do enjoy debate! Everyone has certain
>qualities at which they excel, and others at which they are
>deficient. I make up for my skill in English by being a retard in
>math! Plus, I couldn’t be that smart or I wouldn’t be here, looking
>for a way out of the hell-hole I dug for myself….and despite
>having a really shitty childhood, I take complete responsibility for
>my current position in
>life……………………………….Wishing you the best in
>all…….Alan.
>
>
>
>  ——–
>From: “Ann B. Mullikin” <think@francomm.com>
>Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
>To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
>Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Opiate effects
>Date: Sat, 1 Apr 2006 10:04:20 -0500
>
>  No, I am not Nick but…..
>
>  Bravo, Alan.  I surely do appreciate the way you use your brain –
>TO THINK AND TO REASON.  Its good stuff.  Keep on.
>
>ann
>think@francomm.com
>
>  —– Original Message —–
>From: Alan Hehe
>To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
>Sent: Friday, March 31, 2006 4:49 PM
>Subject: [Ibogaine] Opiate effects
>
>
>    Hey Nick,
>
>     I wanted to say that, although I was basically right, I believe
>(and according to the research I’ve done) about the reason opiates
>cause pleasure, I wasn’t entirely correct about the natural opiates
>(dopamine,etc) having an effect on mood. They do have an affect on
>mood..but then again, so does euphoria..in fact, it could be said to
>be a mood unto itself. Here’s a little medical info for: Opiates
>(heroin, morphine, etc.)
>
>  The human body naturally produces its own opiate-like substances
>and uses them as neurotransmitters. These substances include
>endorphins, enkephalins, and dynorphin, often collectively known as
>endogenous opioids. Endogenous opioids modulate our reactions to
>painful stimuli. They also regulate vital functions such as hunger
>and thirst and are involved in mood control, immune response, and
>other processes.
>
>The reason that opiates such as heroin and morphine affect us so
>powerfully is that these exogenous substances bind to the same
>receptors as our endogenous opioids. There are three kinds of
>receptors widely distributed throughout the brain: mu, delta, and
>kappa receptors.
>
>These receptors, through second messengers, influence the likelihood
>that ion channels will open, which in certain cases reduces the
>excitability of neurons. This reduced excitability is the likely
>source of the euphoric effect of opiates and appears to be mediated
>by the mu and delta receptors.
>
>This euphoric effect also appears to involve another mechanism in
>which the GABA-inhibitory interneurons of the ventral tegmental area
>come into play. By attaching to their mu receptors, exogenous
>opioids reduce the amount of GABA released (see animation).
>Normally, GABA reduces the amount of dopamine released in the
>nucleus accumbens. By inhibiting this inhibitor, the opiates
>ultimately increase the amount of dopamine produced and the amount
>of pleasure felt.
>
>Chronic consumption of opiates inhibits the production of cAMP, but
>this inhibition is offset in the long run by other cAMP production
>mechanisms. When no opiates are available, this increased cAMP
>production capacity comes to the fore and results in neural
>hyperactivity and the sensation of craving the drug.
>
>
>
>
>——–
>  Make FREE PC-to-PC calls with MSN Messenger. Get it now!
>/]=———————————————————————=
>[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands:
>http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
>\]=———————————————————————=
>[/
>
>
>——–
>  Find just what you’re after with the new, more precise MSN Search
>- try it now!
>/]=———————————————————————=
>[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands:
>http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
>\]=———————————————————————=
>[/
>
>
>
>
>/]=———————————————————————=[\
>[%] Ibogaine List Commands:
>http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
>
>\]=———————————————————————=[/
>
>

Be one of the first to try Windows Live Mail /]=———————————————————————=[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%] \]=———————————————————————=[/

Play Trivia with MSN Messenger for a chance to win an XBOX™ 360 prize pack!  /]=———————————————————————=[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%] \]=———————————————————————=[/

From: “Billy J” <billjohnson6@sympatico.ca>
Subject: [Ibogaine] Ibogaine
Date: April 3, 2006 at 11:31:07 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hello there Ibogaine List People,

I want to Know some things and I think that my e-mail stuff is really acting up cause I appear to not receive all that is going on.
I have read about some aguing ,some gossip, bad words, Good words on Brown, Sleep deprivation, Growing Ibo somewhere,(send Me some) and some other stuff,
BUTT or But How about  Ibogaine and who has taken it and who is thinking about it? (I am) and well you know, If you took it and it helped remove some or ALL (Ihope) withdrawl and Pain, Does pain increase after Ibo and are you functionable within how much time? Can I go back to a normal life, who needed who? What? after, before, during, does it just help for a little while? and then back to our old self,
If (Me) a person was really  I mean really  No I Mean REALLY in need of getting his life back and NEEDED ALL the help (Mental) that He could get, Because I have seemed to NOT be able to Gather enough personal strength myself, well what does a guy?(Girl) do?
Come on list, I have went almost 2 days now without my Meth and I have 2 more to go (My fault again) and I would really like to take ONE of my self inflicted vacation times from meth to get a Handfull? Of ibogaine and see what happens< What?  just get a room and hope for the best?

No That is not how I want it to happen, but that is like Me to just take from hand to mouth and figure out the cosequences later. This is the first time I have ever really researched anything other than the Weather.
How about http://www.ibogatherapyhouse.net  and this research people called MAPS.
Come on now,I know there must be some more TESTIMONIES Out there.

I believe in Miracles, and am kinda a walking one- so far- But my faith seems to be Weak towards me. So Sew So Sew Whats This Going to do for me?

Lost for now, and yet I am forcing myself to look up, Where does my help come from? tell Me Please.

Love and peace and all good things for everybody!
Billy Boy

P.S (even the 4 teenagers that cursed me out today)

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: Vector Vector <vector620022002@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] this list is messed up!
Date: April 3, 2006 at 7:17:45 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

That happens alot, to me all the time with Craigslist in particular.
the answer is usually switch off of hotmail because that’s the #1
problem 😉 Being on AOL that’s not your problem, you should make sure
the list is marked as “not spam” and it’s usually ok, though sometimes
yahoo does the same thing, most webmail with spam filters will time out
or assign false positives once in a while when there is high traffic.

If you get the error msgs and most of the actual msgs, you’re doing ok
😉 The error msgs also usually tell you how to retrieve any missed msgs
from the archive.

FWIW Gmail is almost bulletproof and perfect, it looks to have nearly
none of the usual webmail problems at all. I should take my own advice
and finally switch, I keep waiting for @mindvox.com to re open, c’mon
already! 😉

.:vector:.

— CallieMimosa@aol.com wrote:

I have been getting some messages from postmaster saying messages
delayed
and/or undeliverable. Anyone else having this problem?
Some of the posts I am not getting. I read the replies you folks are
writing
but did not receive original message.
Callie

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: “angela baker” <angela71263@hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] New to the list
Date: April 3, 2006 at 7:05:51 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Congratulations!!…I’m very envious of you!…at least you have the money to get help!…My abusive relationship has left me broke and starting over…so I’m trying to find some underground help here in Colorado…if you have any suggestions or ideas please let me know!

From: COLLEEN COLLEEN <cjones2929@sbcglobal.net>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] New  to the list
Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2006 04:21:08 -0800 (PST)

Howdy. . . not sure what to say or where to start.  six weeks since my session which was by far the best one yet. six weeks off all the chemicals. it’s interesting, the method of administration was different than mexico in 2003 (strung out) or the ceremony in 2004 (clean) and feeling like this gradual method was not only gentle yet far reaching internally. . .Safe . .  time will tell  I am just SO fucking grateful to wake up clean and not sick.  I have been reading some of the e mails from the list …and the one thing I am hearing and I get and have is a loving supportive network that want me healthy.  i have eliminated the negative.  the one thing i would like to be different, is that i could allow more time to heal before jumping back into the fast paced life that i live, somehow slow it down, it’s definetly my goal, however the kid, the job, the bills don’t quite allow it YET.  the county condones the rat race.  Whatever, most importantly, is that the spirt of Iboga saved my life
again and offered a way out of the dark dark world of drug addiction.  Okay so I am rambling on, yeah… still hoping for sleep, though it’s so much better, at first for several weeks i would go a hell of a long time not sleeping, part of the deal coming of the juice.  so amazing tojump off the clinic and the next week be free of the stuff, no withdrawl. what a miracle medicine.  have i written too much?  wishing my ibo brothers and sisters MANY BLESSINGS!
Thanks for the angry alien website

_________________________________________________________________
Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today – it’s FREE! http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: “pascall roland” <pascal-roland@hotmail.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] Ibogaine against earthquakes in Iran & elsewhere
Date: April 3, 2006 at 2:51:46 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

we are still alive, thanks, and were out of the country at time of earthquakes.

we intend to grow some ibog plants here as it might they might be effecitve against earthquakes as well. can anyone confirm that info.?

love

pascal

From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] OT-quakes in Iran
Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2006 15:27:07 EST

Anyone heard from pascal? I am kind of worried about him and his  family.
Callie

_________________________________________________________________
Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today it’s FREE! http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] Drug Users’ Hard Lessons Become Tools to Teach Doctors
Date: April 2, 2006 at 8:38:15 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>, <drugwar@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Drug Users’ Hard Lessons Become Tools to Teach Doctors

By LUKE JEROD KUMMER
Published: April 2, 2006
Marlana Reed and Geraldine Westcott were huddled in the corridor of a hospital in the Bronx one recent morning, wrangling over who would be in charge of heroin and who should cover crack. After agreeing, they entered the conference room and sat at the head of a long table.
Five first-year doctors on the other side focused the attentive stares they seemed to have honed in medical school.
“I know you all know about drugs through the books,” said Ms. Reed, whose face, prone to girlish grins, belies her 48 years. “But we’re here to tell you the real deal from the street.”
So began the seminar.
In the Albert Einstein College of Medicine’s residency program at Montefiore Medical Center, substance abuse training may include lessons from those with firsthand experience. Since January, three pairs of patients, called Peer Educators, have come monthly from among five methadone clinics in the Bronx to lead 90-minute courses for internal medicine interns through a program called Project Grow (Giving Resources and Options to Women).
“In med school, we get the chemical mechanisms of what drugs do to the body and how to treat it,” said an intern, Dr. Svetlana Korenfeld. “You can read about drug abuse, but if you’ve never seen it the way it really is, you won’t recognize it.”
Dr. Hillary Kunins, Grow’s founder, and Dr. Melissa Stein, who coordinates the interns’ substance abuse education, also attend the sessions to add information from a physician’s standpoint. But the Peer Educators provide nuances that statistics and medical jargon miss. For instance, in a recent seminar, Dr. Kunins mentioned that crack smokers face an increased risk of hepatitis C from sharing pipes.
Ms. Westcott explained: “Say if you’re in a hurry to get that hit. The glass might pop and you cut the skin, or you burn your mouth because the stem is too short.”
A crack binge, she added, often results in scorches on smokers’ thumbs, from use of cheap lighters.
One intern, Dr. Alexander Han, said he was clueless about such things – despite having treated many substance abusers in his first months of practice. “When I look back, they definitely did have a lot of skin chafing,” he said. “I wasn’t too sure what it was, and so I let it be. Burn marks in the mouth? I’d never thought to look for that.”
In 2000, Dr. Kunins began directing a methadone clinic in the Bronx and fretted that though her patients were at risk for health problems like H.I.V., they often avoided medical care besides their once-a-day methadone stop. A few years later, she founded Grow, offering H.I.V. risk-reduction education, counseling and escorts to doctor’s appointments. She knew, however, that the patients still faced a medical culture that speaks a different language than they do and is not well equipped to serve them. With Dr. Stein’s help, she began organizing seminars to bring women from Grow to instruct interns so they can better understand drug-related health issues.
The course material strays from the curriculum the doctors have seen before. The Peer Educators lecture and field questions on street lingo, how to find and use drugs, and what being high and withdrawal are like. “How long does crack last?” asked Dr. Christina Tseng, an intern.
“That first hit is tremendous,” Ms. Westcott said. “After that, you just chasing it until the money is gone.”
Dr. Tseng wondered what a doctor could have done to help them stop using.
“Don’t be judgmental, because a drug user figures everybody’s watching anyway,” Ms. Reed said, adding that users are not likely to ask for help outright. “You gotta kind of read in between.”
snip-
—–
“If God dropped acid, would he see people?”  ~Steven Wright

Peace, love and lotsof respect.
Preston Peet
ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor Underground- the Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations, Astonishing Archaeology and Hidden History
Editor Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Columnist HighTimes mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Re: (Sorta WAY OT!- semi-nuddie pics) Fw: slipper pix
Date: April 3, 2006 at 4:27:12 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I hadn’t even thought of the water thing, though I do drink it all night when playing (I don’t do alcohol). There’s a chance I still wasn’t drinking enough of it though, combined with standing up too fast and smoking a lot.
;-))
The only one I’ve heard in your short list is the Tiger Lillies, but will be sure to look up the others today. Thanks Sandra.

—–
“If God dropped acid, would he see people?”  ~Steven Wright

Peace, love and lotsof respect.
Preston
ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor Underground- the Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations, Astonishing Archaeology and Hidden History
Editor Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Columnist HighTimes mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —– From: “Sandra Karpetas” <sandra@ibogatherapyhouse.net>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Sunday, April 02, 2006 11:01 PM
Subject: [Ibogaine] Re: (Sorta WAY OT!- semi-nuddie pics) Fw: slipper pix

heya Preston,

about the headrush thing, it can happen when your blood pressure’s low, sudden drops in blood pressure can lead brief dizziness, impaired vision and coordination. Low blood sugar, rapid changes in blood sugar and dehydration can cause it too…i think bud lowers blood sugar, no? you said you were  crunching down behind the tables and i wonder if you prolly got up too quickly? it’s a mighty potent combo of forces at work there especially if there’s a chance you haven’t been drinking enough water bro…

btw, what kinda music do you spin for cabaret events? u heard of the tiger lillies, dresden dolls,  devotchka, circus contraption, and other weird sheiza like that?…its some of my fave weirdness for burlesque and vaudeville.

cheers,

~sandra

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: “Eye of the Bhogi” <freedomroot@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Pot calling the Kettle Black?
Date: April 3, 2006 at 2:43:34 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Yeah, BiscuitBoy, stop talking to your Momma Ann like that!  Didn’t she raise you better than that?  ; )

You’ve probably already gotten this info. offlist, but yes, you may have misconstrued something there, Alan:  a filial joke. Randy is Ann’s son.  That “I love you Momma” is an actual parent-child reference.  She joined this list to help support him and others’ healing from their drug addictions with the help of Eboga.

Love ya Randy.  Love ya Ann.  Love y’all.

xo Rachel

From: “Nick Sandberg” <nick227@tiscali.co.uk>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] this list is messed up!
Date: April 3, 2006 at 3:22:44 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Every now and again they seem to come pretty much when sent, but mostly they come in sudden scattered bursts, usually way out of chron order, with often whole threads arriving before the original messages. Don’t know how Patrick manages it but it’s pretty clever! Maybe he sits up nights having fun with it. Nick
—–Original Message—–
From: CallieMimosa@aol.com [mailto:CallieMimosa@aol.com]
Sent: 03 April 2006 19:34
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] this list is messed up!

I have been getting some messages from postmaster saying messages delayed and/or undeliverable. Anyone else having this problem?
Some of the posts I am not getting. I read the replies you folks are writing but did not receive original message.
Callie

From: “Nick Sandberg” <nick227@tiscali.co.uk>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Pot calling the Kettle Black?
Date: April 3, 2006 at 3:53:07 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

—–Original Message—–
From: Alan Hehe [mailto:a.h.veil68@hotmail.com]
Sent: 02 April 2006 17:32
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] Pot calling the Kettle Black?

Hey…uh, Biscuit Boy,
What’s the matter? Do you NOT like my debate with Nick, or do you just not like the fact that Ann paid me a compliment? Do you agree with Nick’s idea that only emotionally repressed individuals receive any sort of high from opiates? If you’ve got something to say, why not come out and say it? Have you never done opiates? Or any drugs? What gives you the right to judge Ann? Personally I don’t care if her comment was influened by a whole gram of Mexican brown! Better a nice compliment from someone high, than a nasty one from someone sober! Now, if I’ve misconstrued your intent, I apologize, but I would appreciate a logical explanation rather than a low-blow insinuation.

Hi Alan,
only emotionally repressed individuals receive any sort of high from opiates – I did not make such an extreme statement. I said there was a relationship between the two, that the bliss experienced on opiates relates to the degree of ego-repressed feeling. You grab stuff, exaggerate it to an extreme position and then criticize your own interpretation. Welcome to the wonderful world of manipulation! I see a great career in media or politics opening up before you.
BTW, this IS the classic trait for someone who is using belief patterns to hold down feelings. If something challenges the belief then repressed feelings start to rise “OMG, what if I’m really like so!” or whatever and the mind acts to push the feelings back down again, rearranging what is said into something it can criticize and expel. Frankly, I also see myself doing it at times! Letting go of beliefs can be a toughie.
Nick

From:  biscuitboy714@aol.com
Reply-To:  ibogaine@mindvox.com
To:  ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject:  Re: [Ibogaine] Opiate effects
Date:  Sun, 02 Apr 2006 11:05:09 -0400
>Yea Ann, tell us how much heroin you shot last night. He He I
>couldn’t help it. I love you Mamma           Randy
>
>—–Original Message—–
>From: Alan Hehe <a.h.veil68@hotmail.com>
>To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
>Sent: Sat, 01 Apr 2006 11:15:03 -0500
>Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Opiate effects
>
>     Hey Ann,
>
>     Thank you for the compliment…Somebody’s got to try to counter
>his crazy ideas with some sense. Feel free to write me anytime..I
>really enjoy talking to people on this list and hearing their
>stories…Oh, don’t tell anyone, but I studied semantics and debate
>in high school! Just kidding…about the hush hush, as anyone will
>be able to read this. Oh, heck–LOL! I’m 37, and High school is but
>a distant, mainly unplesant experience…except when I would catch
>my English teacher making grammatical or syntactical mistakes,
>before they moved me into an A.P. college-level class…And no, I’m
>not conceited, either..but I do enjoy debate! Everyone has certain
>qualities at which they excel, and others at which they are
>deficient. I make up for my skill in English by being a retard in
>math! Plus, I couldn’t be that smart or I wouldn’t be here, looking
>for a way out of the hell-hole I dug for myself….and despite
>having a really shitty childhood, I take complete responsibility for
>my current position in
>life……………………………….Wishing you the best in
>all…….Alan.
>
>
>
>  ——–
>From: “Ann B. Mullikin” <think@francomm.com>
>Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
>To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
>Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Opiate effects
>Date: Sat, 1 Apr 2006 10:04:20 -0500
>
>  No, I am not Nick but…..
>
>  Bravo, Alan.  I surely do appreciate the way you use your brain –
>TO THINK AND TO REASON.  Its good stuff.  Keep on.
>
>ann
>think@francomm.com
>
>  —– Original Message —–
>From: Alan Hehe
>To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
>Sent: Friday, March 31, 2006 4:49 PM
>Subject: [Ibogaine] Opiate effects
>
>
>    Hey Nick,
>
>     I wanted to say that, although I was basically right, I believe
>(and according to the research I’ve done) about the reason opiates
>cause pleasure, I wasn’t entirely correct about the natural opiates
>(dopamine,etc) having an effect on mood. They do have an affect on
>mood..but then again, so does euphoria..in fact, it could be said to
>be a mood unto itself. Here’s a little medical info for: Opiates
>(heroin, morphine, etc.)
>
>  The human body naturally produces its own opiate-like substances
>and uses them as neurotransmitters. These substances include
>endorphins, enkephalins, and dynorphin, often collectively known as
>endogenous opioids. Endogenous opioids modulate our reactions to
>painful stimuli. They also regulate vital functions such as hunger
>and thirst and are involved in mood control, immune response, and
>other processes.
>
>The reason that opiates such as heroin and morphine affect us so
>powerfully is that these exogenous substances bind to the same
>receptors as our endogenous opioids. There are three kinds of
>receptors widely distributed throughout the brain: mu, delta, and
>kappa receptors.
>
>These receptors, through second messengers, influence the likelihood
>that ion channels will open, which in certain cases reduces the
>excitability of neurons. This reduced excitability is the likely
>source of the euphoric effect of opiates and appears to be mediated
>by the mu and delta receptors.
>
>This euphoric effect also appears to involve another mechanism in
>which the GABA-inhibitory interneurons of the ventral tegmental area
>come into play. By attaching to their mu receptors, exogenous
>opioids reduce the amount of GABA released (see animation).
>Normally, GABA reduces the amount of dopamine released in the
>nucleus accumbens. By inhibiting this inhibitor, the opiates
>ultimately increase the amount of dopamine produced and the amount
>of pleasure felt.
>
>Chronic consumption of opiates inhibits the production of cAMP, but
>this inhibition is offset in the long run by other cAMP production
>mechanisms. When no opiates are available, this increased cAMP
>production capacity comes to the fore and results in neural
>hyperactivity and the sensation of craving the drug.
>
>
>
>
>——–
>  Make FREE PC-to-PC calls with MSN Messenger. Get it now!
>/]=———————————————————————=
>[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands:
>http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
>\]=———————————————————————=
>[/
>
>
>——–
>  Find just what you’re after with the new, more precise MSN Search
>- try it now!
>/]=———————————————————————=
>[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands:
>http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
>\]=———————————————————————=
>[/
>
>
>
>
>/]=———————————————————————=[\
>[%] Ibogaine List Commands:
>http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
>
>\]=———————————————————————=[/
>
>

Be one of the first to try Windows Live Mail /]=———————————————————————=[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%] \]=———————————————————————=[/

From: “Alan Hehe” <a.h.veil68@hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Opiates
Date: April 3, 2006 at 5:40:04 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hey, Nick. I’m sorry that you have trouble with long, “mind-y” e-mails…whatever the hell “mind-y” means. I guess intelligent people disturb you because you can’t manipulate them with your pseudo-psychological bullshit. Personally, the only psychologist I have much respect for is Carl Jung. Also, I tend to read and write very quickly…I guess that’s how I got so “mind-y”. But don’t worry, ’cause I’ve decided that you are just full of it, will never admit when you are obviously wrong, and are one of the most ego-tistical people I’ve ever encountered. You are setting yourself up for a big fall, I can tell you that. Does it make you think at all that almost everyone on this list–and they’re not all “fuckin’ junkies” disagrees with most of what you say, and your treatment methods? No, because you are SO convinced you are right. Well, belief doesn’t neccesarily have anything to do with truth. Let’s just agree to disagree, and leave it at that…’cause I paint, play guitar, write, practice meditation and martial arts, and also have better things to do…And I like “mind-y” people–just because you can’t keep up, it’s not our fault, Nick-y! BYE!

From: “Nick Sandberg” <nick227@tiscali.co.uk>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Opiates
Date: Sun, 2 Apr 2006 11:02:20 +0100

Hi Alan,

I don’t really have the time to get involved in long, mind-y debates about stuff and how the world is/should be. Short, mind-y debates I can handle! So if you want to keep it to a couple of sentences or paragraphs I can do this. Something I’ve learned over the last few decades – If you want to make peace in the world you have to start with your own heart, your own psyche. You have to examine your own repressed conflicts that you carry around. If you don’t do this it’s inevitable that they will be projected onto the world and you will experience it as opposing forces warring. If you own it yourself, if you take it on as your responsibility, stuff can change. You can undermine your own energy through adherence to democratic process and really listen and take in what everyone has to say. Fine. But then you also have to look deep inside and ask – “Does this really make me happy?” If the answer isn’t Yes then it’s time to take the gloves off a bit and stretch out a bit more on a limb.

Ibogaine is an encounter drug, if ever there was one, for sure! You also have to take that back out and into the world and continue the process.

Nick

—–Original Message—–
From: Alan Hehe [mailto:a.h.veil68@hotmail.com]
Sent: 01 April 2006 15:10
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Opiates

Hey Nick,
Well, I do agree with you about most of this post…And it’s defintely true that many, many people–esp. Americans–are totally screwed up. This is due to the fact that we live in a society which causes all kinds of stressfull, antagonistic, and confrontational situations…Yet mostly these are of a social nature, and we’re bound by society’s laws and ettiquette expectations. The body is still reacting as it did hundreds or thousands of years ago, by releasing adrenaline and creating a fight/flight response. Yet this response is not appropriate in our society, so we’re left with all this unused adrenaline, which, when not utilized, is not only very unpleasant, but also damaging to the C.N.S.
So, yes, we end up with all kinds of represssed feelings…Actually, as far as your therapy goes in relation to this, it very well may be quite beneficial…it’s the use of it on addicts that I’m not so sure about, because they receive so much abuse already…and, like I said before, the only thing that’s going to change an addict is himself. He or She has to make that decision, and then be assisted by chemical (ibogaine) therapy…And it seems like, from what I’ve heard, ibogaine causes one to confront themselves in a way that another person could never achieve.
I have anger isssues of my own….a bit of road rage, alot of anger at the state of my country and the world..a world where a child starves every 2 seconds and at the same time millionaires have 14 different cars and 3 houses. We are being lied to left and right, being manipulated with disinformation, and..well, I could go on and on. I think listening, and letting the addict, or whomever, rant and rave and get some of this off their chests would be much more beneficial than the counselor yelling…although, maybe you are right, and in some cases this is needed to break down the emotional wall that keeps people from opening up. But, let me tell you, I’ve been on methadone for quite awhile, and I still have anxiety problems! The only drugs which seem to relieve this are benzodiazepines (like Valium, Xanax), another group of drugs that have been demonized due to a few idiots, knowing no better, killing themselves with them. The Govt. constantly is saying no drugs, don’t do them (although, ironically, 99% of the commercials are about marijuana, one of the few drugs that you simply can’t overdose with!) but, due to their lies and disinformation about pot, they’ve lost their credibility with the youth…and they never give out information, like “Hey, if you mix opiates with alcohol and/or benzodizepines, there’s a good chance that you will die…..”! That kind of stuff enrages me to no end, not to mention the conspiracy issues it brings up.
Well, I’ve rambled on for quite enough….Sincerely, A.

From: “Nick Sandberg” <nick227@tiscali.co.uk>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Opiates
Date: Sat, 1 Apr 2006 11:00:01 +0100

Hi Alan,

I’m not so much of an expert on psychopharmacology, so am happy whatever you believe, as I don’t have the background to contest it. What I know is that opiates are narcotic analgesics, they stop you feeling. This is basically what they do, they reinforce the body’s own repression system. From that, I don’t think it’s unreasonable to suggest that, if someone is struggling to hold down excess feelings, they will experience high levels of daily anxiety. If they take a drug which helps to push all the feelings back into unconsciousness, an analgesic like heroin for example, then it will feel blissful. The anxiety is gone for a while and it feels great. This seems pretty reasonable to me.

I also know what I see…and that is, time and time again, opiate users have a lot of feelings held down within and a strong orientation not to feel them, whether it be to look for some kind of “get out clause” in the mind or just getting the fuck out of there. Anything they can do to separate themselves from the situation, to put distance, whether mentally or physically. However, this statement is also a little bit unfair, because…

….as Peter Cohen and others have pointed out, the issue is really more societal. OK, so opiate users are resistant to feeling too much, so what? A big chunk of the population is the same, never uses opiates, but have other defence mechanisms (as psychologists term them) to keep excess feelings at bay. Stuck in a group room situation with a therapist, they would be equally likely to resist using every device they could think of. The difference is…our society pushes drug users to therapy and change far more so than the rest of the population. All sorts of people have incredibly fucked up lives, without touching drugs, yet never get any social pressure to change (of course some also do). Illicit drug users are far more likely to find themselves confronted with the cops, or sitting in a circle with other drug users saying things like “My name is Mike, and I use heroin.”

Personally, my position is…I think rising awareness is GOOD. I would love to see more people in groups, going through their stuff, becoming more aware of their personal interior dynamic, and moving forward in life. But, sadly, I’m not in a position to compel people to do this. So, mostly, it’s only people who already have the awareness to see they’re not happy with their lives that come. Plus people who’ve been socially pressured to do so by the way our society is orientated – mostly drug addicts and alcoholics. I mean, it’s patently not fair, which is what the Peter Cohen camp seeks to address. But, personally, I think anyone moving into a higher state of awareness of themselves is cool.

Nick

—–Original Message—–
From: Alan Hehe [mailto:a.h.veil68@hotmail.com]
Sent: 01 April 2006 05:09
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] Opiates

Hey Nick,

I’ve been having some strangeness with my ibogaine posts, so just in case you didn’t get my letter–which I don’t have the patience to re-write in its entirety–but here’s the real reason opiates produce pleasure, which has nothing to do with ‘repressed emotions’–although opiates, by causing euphoria, can be said to be mood enhancers. The following is from a medical site, written by an actual Doctor who studies such things:

HOW DRUGS AFFECT NEUROTRANSMITTERS

Dopamine appeared very early in the course of evolution and is involved in many functions that are essential for survival of the organism, such as motricity, attentiveness, motivation, learning, and memorization. But most of all, dopamine is a key element in identifying natural rewards for the organism. These natural stimuli such as food and water cause individuals to engage in approach behaviours. Dopamine is also involved in unconscious memorization of signs associated with these rewards. 

It has now been established that all substances that trigger dependencies in human beings increase the release of a neuromediator, dopamine, in a specific area of the brain: the nucleus accumbens. 

But not all drugs increase dopamine levels in the brain in the same way.
• Some substances imitate natural neuromediators and take their place on their receptors. Morphine, for example, binds to the receptors for endorphin (a natural “morphine” produced by the brain), while nicotine binds to the receptors for acetylcholine.
• Other substances increase the secretion of natural neuromediators. Cocaine, for example, mainly increases the amount of dopamine in the synapses, while ecstasy mainly increases the amount of serotonin.
• Still other substances block a natural neuromediator. Alcohol, for example, blocks the NMDA receptors.
Click on the names of each of the following drugs to read about how they work and what effects they have.
Alcohol —– Opiates (heroin, morphine, etc.) —– Cocaןne —– Nicotine
Caffeine —– Amphetamines —– Cannabis —– Ecstasy —– Benzodiazepines

  • Opiates (heroin, morphine, etc.)
    The human body naturally produces its own opiate-like substances and uses them as neurotransmitters. These substances include endorphins, enkephalins, and dynorphin, often collectively known as endogenous opioids. Endogenous opioids modulate our reactions to painful stimuli. They also regulate vital functions such as hunger and thirst and are involved in mood control, immune response, and other processes. 

The reason that opiates such as heroin and morphine affect us so powerfully is that these exogenous substances bind to the same receptors as our endogenous opioids. There are three kinds of receptors widely distributed throughout the brain: mu, delta, and kappa receptors. 

These receptors, through second messengers, influence the likelihood that ion channels will open, which in certain cases reduces the excitability of neurons. This reduced excitability is the likely source of the euphoric effect of opiates and appears to be mediated by the mu and delta receptors. 

This euphoric effect also appears to involve another mechanism in which the GABA-inhibitory interneurons of the ventral tegmental area come into play. By attaching to their mu receptors, exogenous opioids reduce the amount of GABA released (see animation). Normally, GABA reduces the amount of dopamine released in the nucleus accumbens. By inhibiting this inhibitor, the opiates ultimately increase the amount of dopamine produced and the amount of pleasure felt. 

Chronic consumption of opiates inhibits the production of cAMP, but this inhibition is offset in the long run by other cAMP production mechanisms. When no opiates are available, this increased cAMP production capacity comes to the fore and results in neural hyperactivity and the sensation of craving the drug.
    General links about opiates:

Find just what you’re after with the new, more precise MSN Search – try it now! /]=———————————————————————=[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%] \]=———————————————————————=[/

Get MSN Messenger with FREE Video Conversation – the next best thing to being there! /]=———————————————————————=[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%] \]=———————————————————————=[/

Get turn-by-turn driving directions you can really use – Windows Live Local is here! /]=———————————————————————=[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%] \]=———————————————————————=[/

From: Kirk <captkirk@clear.net.nz>
Subject: [Ibogaine] Re: slipper pix
Date: April 3, 2006 at 3:46:57 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Preston wrote:-Anyway, hope everyone is having a good Sunday and not overtaxing themselves with worry, stress or the absolute weirdness about how some folk seem to think “abusive” language and behavior and “therapeutic” can, logically, fit together in any sane, rational treatment of addicts and drug abusers.

That was a bit of a low blow wasn’t it?  I think we’ve all established the agree to disagree  feud going on here….. but shouldn’t you stick to debate instead of random digs in emails to the whole list?
Got a lot of time for you PP, but come on……enough is enough…..
With respect for all, on the road to better health, happiness and abundance.
Koiky xxx

From: Vector Vector <vector620022002@yahoo.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] Sara!
Date: April 3, 2006 at 7:19:39 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

More Sara 🙂

http://saraglatt.blogspot.com/2006/04/sara-glatt-iboga-ibogaine-treatment-in.html

Monday, April 03, 2006
Sara Glatt & Iboga, ibogaine treatment in Holland

The following is a litteral transcript of an exchange of opinions
between myself and Sara Glatt that recently took place in e-mails. My
reasons for posting this expose are because I feel I have been done a
great injustice by Sara while attempting to help her, financialy and
helping her around the house, cooking, cleaning, clearing the garden
etc.

Admittedly differences of opinion are bound to occurr while working
with entheogenic substances. Below are the results of attempts to
resolve these differences and to reestablish the friendship and respect
that I truly felt for Sara. I have many criticisms of the way she
conducts her bussiness: treating people with drug dependencies with an
iboga extract. I have however never thought of Sara as a person who is
less than completely sincere, however my opinion has changed following
this exchange and I leave this message as a warning to those
considering submitting to iboga treatment at her home. Iboga treatment
is probably the most powerful entheogenic treatment available today,
and can in some cases lead to very long recovery periods. In many cases
although dependency and craving are substantialy alleviated, addicts
will find themselves returning to the use of drugs soon enough because
the therapy given by Sara is insufficient as a means of working out
personal psychological problems, which more often than not require
psychotherapy. I hope all those considering this treatment will think
twice before taking iboga.

D Waterman

Dear Daniel,
I would appreciate any information you are able to send me regarding
Iboga treatment. I will be happy to have any information regarding
where, when, and how much?

Sincerely,

Name deleted.

Dear Rick, I have forwarded your request to Sara, who is the only
person I know of specificaly qualified to administer Iboga. I hope she
will contact you soon. Sara is 100% bonafide and you can trust her…

Good luck

Daniel

Sara:

Thanks, best wishes always,

Sara

Dear Sara,
As you can see neither my respect for you, nor my friendship have
diminished over time, but I have to say that now I too am disappointed.
Misunderstandings between friends happen and it shouldn’t be the end of
the friendship. Whatever happened back then is in the past. I never
meant to hurt you or to do anything to hurt your interests. I am
outspoken and some people may take that the wrong way, which says more
about who they are than about me. I consider you a good friend, or
considered, until I felt you were not being entirely sincere with me
about some things. Where two people argue there are always two causes
you know that.

I don’t want to go back to the past, today life is different for me and
for you too. I just want to let you know that I think of you and miss
you.

Daniel

Sara: thanks and I appriciate that a lot, I’m working very hard and
have very little time for socializing. best wishes,

Sara

Sara: thank you for sharing you feeling with me, I would like to get
some clarity about, what have I done wrong to you? please let me know.

kind regards,
Sara

Daniel:
Sara you have done nothing wrong to me, or else I would not be writing
to you at all. Something must have gone wrong however: we stopped
talking.

It felt like you accused me of having scared away Chandra with my
e-mails. I felt on the other hand that you had in some way asked me to
help get together people for a ceremony with him, and that you didn’t
yourself have enough people to make it worthwhile. When Chandra’s wife
was making the arrangements with me she was totally impractical. Yana
and Harald from Germany have had exactly the same experience with her,
so I feel justified in my conviction that there is something wrong with
the way she expected us to organise the work and to receive all the
financial benefits themselves (and the work would have been much more
expensive than our work here). These are clearly people who are in it
for the money. She got insulted and decided to stay away. Now I have
the feeling you blame me for this, but I seem to remember asking you
whether you would like me to help arrange this visit (I thought you
don’t have enough people to make it work). I feel that much of the
confusion has to do with these two things, the quite sudden request to
help organise an ayahuasca session for someone else who was working for
financial interest and the fact that I found out from Emy that you
planned to work with ayahuasca, before I found out from you. Both these
things are not things you did to me, but they are signals of
non-communication.

Sara, I have had a lot of experience of the trouble that people have in
ayahuasca ceremonies. Those problems are very different from what
happens during an iboga session: there you firstly have one on one
communication, and secondly the journey is much deeper. In ayahuasca
work part of the therapy is in the human interaction and so there are
projections. In psychology the term for this is transference, the
patient transfers feelings to the therapist (and obviously sometimes
the other way round) In psychotherapy the therapist can use this
relationship to the advantage of the therapy, for example he can read
something about the patients background in the way the patient is
hostile or solicitous to him. Ayahuasca work brings up many of such
feelings, because the participant is awake, in a group, active.

I want to make ayahuasca sessions that are genuinely healing and
therapeutic, as I have now begun to do both here and in Israel. That
argument at your home was the moment when I realised that the problems
I was having with the control of the session was not one of being a
‘control freak’ (which is a projection) but of not controlling enough.
In Israel the work has been much more structured and I feel justified
in preparing groups according to the psychology that I feel underlies
and justifies this type of work. As always, communication and straight
speaking are the key to maintaining honest and sincere relations both
within this work and in daily life.

I am not angry at you. I discontinued the work at your home to protect
you from the feelings that were flying around at the time. I am sorry
if you were hurt by what happened but when things get out of hand, and
they often do, there is nothing we can do except examine what we could
have done ourselves to make sure they don’t do again.

I don’t know whether this letter will clear up anything between you and
me Sara. There are no bad feelings here on my side. We should have a
drink together. I have an excellent ayahuasca made by myself and
Naftalie Hershler in my fathers back garden, in the traditional way, no
more powders. Friendship should not be that easy to destroy.

Love

Daniel

Dear Daniel,
first of all, I wanted to have a female group for Aya. and that is what
I told Emy. on the other hand it is at my home and I feel that I can
invite who I like to. You said very clear that day that you decided to
stop with giving ceremonies, that’s why I wanted to invite Chandra in
the first place. anyways, Aya. doesn’t doe me much and I never had a
vision that excited me to continue this work. I feel that you are an
abusive person and that’s why I stoped speaking to you.

I never intented to stop my friendship to you but I don’t like to be in
a company of someone who is acting abusive to me. if someone is doing
things impractically or for material intention,it’s their own karma
that meets with them.

I also have changed and don’t need extra baggage of being blamed for
anything, what I do at my home is my own business and I have no need
for any ceremony here, when it can go out of hand. I don’t connect to
any religion or trying to convert anybody into my world or prove
anything,or say one thing and do another.

kind regards,

Sara

Dear Sara,
I answered your last letter in the expectation that we could
communicate about things without blaming, however you have raised a few
issues that I would appreciate you clearing up. What do you mean by:

I feel that you are an abusive person and that’s why I stoped speaking
to you.

How have I abused you?

What does this mean:

I don’t connect to any religion or trying to convert anybody into my
world or prove anything,or say one thing and do another.

Are you saying you think I connect to some religion or am trying to
convert people? Or that I say one thing and do another? It sounds as if
you are doing what you are accusing me of: blaming me for something.
Obviously there is more here than meets the eye.

I feel like we are talking a different language Sara. As you see I
understand perfectly that you have no need for any ceremony that can
get out of hand (neither do I by the way) and wished to protect you
from that. It seems however that you must be blaming me for my part in
the argument with Cat, since I cannot be responsible for how she
behaved. If that is so, I agree with you, and it is a lesson I have
learned. As I said I apologise for my role in that. Sara what more can
I do to repair the damage. It seems that whatever I say to you just is
making things worse.

In any meeting between two people there is as much the challenge of
friendship as a possibility to learn something (that makes the
relationship or friendship worthwhile) I appreciate the time you have
taken to answer my letters, however at this time I am asking myself
whether there is any point: is any progress being made? Has anything
become clear to you through this, or have bad feelings been resolved?
Or am I just a person who you can conveniently project your own
feelings onto now?

I am sorry Sara, that for all the best wishes in the world this
friendship and respect that I feel for you cannot grow without a
deepening of awareness on both sides. If you are prepared to just leave
the past for what it is, that is one thing…but now you have brought
up topics that need to be talked about if we want to resolve anything,
and I don’t really know whether you want to do this or not. How can
there ever be a deepening of awareness without confrontation Sara,
there are always the things inside us that we are unwilling to see, it
is others who confront us with those things.

Love light and wisdom on you path

Daniel

Dear Daniel,
well I understand you wanted to communicate with me. we had an
agreement when you came here to do the Aya.ceremony, you gave me a
bottle saying this is 4 doses cost 40 euros each, then you looked at me
as if you wanted to kill me because I was going to invite chandra, so I
didn’t say anything after you have been agressive with Cat. and not
resonable with Joyce. instead of keeping our agreement that I would get
so many % of the income, for using my facility. the Aya. that you sold
to me much too expesive wasn’t worth drinking, not for my client nor
for me, we didn’t feel a thing, it is money gone down the drain. you
never asked me how was that Aya. I also could have made the tea it
wouldn’t have cost a 1/4 of what you charged me
and I would have more then what you sold to me for 160 euros. you gave
it to me at first without charging anything, me thinking “Oh how
kind”then you said, “Oh but that’s worth that much then you will not
get any money of me this time,” you were upset with me for wanting to
do a ladies session with chandra, but you didn’t have a good reason to
be,I will not do Aya. with anybody in my home, there will be no “Master
Ayahuscha here”. and if I like to do Aya. I will do it myself. that’s
because I lost trust in people telling one thing but when it comes to
it they don’t walk their talk.

then you came to tell me that I wasn’t a good researcher because I
don’t keep Data’s, i felt it was more about yourself importance by
criticism towards me and be little me. then about visiting me as a
friend or coming to help me in the graden.

I don’t need you to be projecting my feelings,if I have any bad feeling
about anything it is my piece of cake, I have lost trust and that’s all
there is to it, not only in you but in “Humanity”, it is not you to
blame that we live in materialistic world were power, self importance
and money are the role players and the spirit is lost, that’s the
projection of the time we live in.

kind regards,
Sara

Daniel:

Sara now you are telling things that you never even mentioned to me.
You got some impression from me but you never checked whether that
impression was correct. I understand your reasoning however you were
jumping to conclusions: you looked at me as if you wanted to kill me?
You really believe this Sara? Come on…. aren’t we supposed to be even
a little spiritually evolved. Sara in all truth you make an impression
of someone whose trust is all too easily destroyed. You have no faith
in humanity? Thats a really heavy trip to lay on anyone. This has
nothing to do with me. I was not aggresive with Cat, she hit me if you
will remember. Secondly Joyce ran away instead of talking to me, after
she took offense at something she overheard me say to someone else that
was none of her business. At not time did I try to prevent her from
leaving and she gave me no opportunity to talk about things she just
walked off, leaving a big stink of conceit and making Cat go into a
hysterical mood. I never tried to conceal anything from you about my
problems with Cat, and I told you that I hit her once, but I did not do
that in your home even after she hit me. I learned that lesson, but Cat
obviously did not, and now how can you blame me for being aggressive to
her? Are you saying women cannot be aggressive?

Out of all the sessions I gave at your home I always gave you a good
share of the income. When you asked me for ayahuasca I gave you what I
was using in my sessions, and I did not charge you more than I have
charged for participation in my sessions. I admit there was a problem
with that particular type of ayahuasca, made from extract. For some
reason some people feel more from it than others, and I have stopped
working with it and only use the raw materials now, however that was
what I was using then, it worked very powerfully for me remember? There
was no intention there to rip you off. As you may also remember I came
back to your home a week after that session to repair your window and
also to see you. You made no mention of your feelings about that
ayahuasca.

By the way, Naftalie worked with our new ayahuasca in Israel and nobody
felt a thing. It almost provoked an argument because he had charged
money for the session. Just drinking the ayahuasca is not the whole
story, and I have taken particular pains to remind both you and
everyone who has participated in my sessions of this fact: ayahuasca is
-ritual + ayahuasca + singing/dancing-. You yourself have told me that
you have a special relationship with the Iboga, why should such a
special relationship not exist for ayahuasca as well? Of course it
does. The effects can only manifest properly under specific conditions
and you are obviously not yet able to create those conditions.

Sara you are still full of blame and grievances, and many of them are
not really my bussiness, they have to do with a general way you take
things. I gladly helped you clean up the garden, cook, clear the home,
move the glass laboratory gear. There was no profit motive there just
friendship. Sure I am critical about the way you do things, though I
was just letting you hear my opinion, how you do things is indeed your
bussiness, and not mine, and certainly not a reason to think less of
you.

As big and shining as your heart is, you are also making yourself
really small, by carrying this grievance against the world around and
pretending it is not so. I wish that I could take away that pain, or
show you what you are doing. You are depriving yourself of a lot of
help and support in this way. I had no intention of sabotaging you or
your work, or disturbing your home, I just wanted to help you in any
way that I could and I felt some common intention in our work.

I cannot be your friend if I cannot speak my heart, without you taking
my words as an attack of some sort. It is up to you to take those words
whichever way you choose and there is a choice there. Why should I be
any less a friend for having criticised you a little? You think I would
even bother if I didn’t care?

Lets leave this discussion a little now. I don’t particularly want to
get into a yes no this that debate with you, its exactly the kind of
stuff that was going on between me and Cat and I have no desire to
continue doing it. The first words of the Santo Daime are -examine you
conscience- If each of us does this and we still find friendship and
love there that’s great, but if all we find is blame and pain, then
there is till work to be done, and I cannot do that for you just as you
cannot do it for me. Take care,

Love

Daniel

Sara:

Hi Roger my king, in the below email Daniel addmit that the Aya. wasn’t
good. he thinks that if I sing and dance and do as he said I may will
get a vision. just lots of bullshit, if it wasn’t the lady’s business
why would he speak about those things in her and other’s company? after
all be here and now, not talk shit about nobody unless it’s a warrning
about dangerous stuff. if he didn’t have a loud arrument with Joyce
then Cat would had the need to be upset. the window he repaired he
broke in the first place, while knocking at the door window with his
keys in an irritating way, while the back door was open and he just
could get in anyways. this is very well written of Daniel, but he is in
cloud kukuland. anyways, I thought you should know about the Aya.
quality first hand.

love you much,
xxx

Sara

You know Sara, the things you are saying in this letter here prove only
one thing: you need to really grow up and stop behaving like a baby.
Everyone on the whole internet knows that ayahuasca only works together
with singing and here you are denying it.

Please lets stop writing, enough stupidity in the world already without
you and me contributing to it both,

Dooeeeeee!

Sara:

Dat’s right, dooeeei,my kids said that too. I didn’t like to write the
same thing twice, I also had enough of bullshiting. now You know that
my friend who took the Aya. with me thought I was cheeting him with
giving him the wrong stuff, charging money for bullshit. he was upset
and me too, there was no Dancing or singing with other shamans and it
did work then,there are many reports on own use of Aya. without a
shaman, that DMT worked but no for everyone the same. they not all do
it your way Daniel, but you know the spirit and the spirit knows you.

I have work lots and lots of hours with people for no charge at all,
and you know it too, you know it is hard for my finnacially and that’s
why I opened my house for Aya. ceremony, but charging me the same as
you would charge a total stranger is a pain, and then I did lost trust
in your real intentions of really helping me out then. now I know that
I souldn’t ask anything of anybody and that what ever pain I have
that’s my thing to work out not with some kind of spirit in the sky.
get real, Daniel, it hurt anyone’s feeling to be treated like a total
stranger when I was concidered to be your friend. well, you know my
side of the picture, just as you wanted to. maybe now you can project
your anger but no need to be defensive. this is happen for real at my
kitchen table, gossiping was not the right thing to do and when Joyce
made a point out of it, you were not respectful to her, so why would
you be respectful to me? this is when you are talking about bring peace
with Aya. what is past is past, yes. but when trust is lost the it
takes much more to gain it again. sorry about the harsh way of saying
things but that’s what they do in Group therapy these days.they call it
tough love.

beste,

Sara
posted by Huasquero @ 1:56 AM

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: “Nick Sandberg” <nick227@tiscali.co.uk>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Re: (Sorta WAY OT!- semi-nuddie pics) Fw: slipper pix
Date: April 3, 2006 at 1:18:22 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

—–Original Message—–
From: Sandra Karpetas [mailto:sandra@ibogatherapyhouse.net]
Sent: 03 April 2006 04:01
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] Re: (Sorta WAY OT!- semi-nuddie pics) Fw: slipper
pix

heya Preston,

btw, what kinda music do you spin for cabaret events? u heard of the
tiger lillies, dresden dolls,  devotchka, circus contraption, and other
weird sheiza like that?…its some of my fave weirdness for burlesque
and vaudeville.

cheers,

~sandra

How about this one, doing the rounds in UK clubs at the moment –
www.puravida.uk.com/Sounds/Peace_Div_-_Blacklight_Sleaze.mp3 ? Bit more
times square, I guess. Nick

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: “Nick Sandberg” <nick227@tiscali.co.uk>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Stop getting trapped:
Date: April 3, 2006 at 1:08:08 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Ed,

About psychology and neurochemistry, I prefer the former because in my experience it works better. People will expend much energy convincing themselves they have no unconscious, no conditioning, no trauma, or no repression. I mean, what’s the point? Why not act as if you do and give it a go? Neurochemistry has its uses but finally it’s just the mind trying to understand everything – a fear trip really when you rip it all apart. Why not just let go more into reality, and pump up the energy a bit? I mean who wants to be stuck in their mind all their life? Who wants to have some tedious highly coherent belief pattern for understanding everything?

About sleep and addiction – still not convinced! I think early morning REM sleep is not only unnecessary but that it only provides mild abreaction of anxiety, very low level non-bodily processing, better to be awake and active. I find when my energy’s flowing I just don’t need to sleep much. I’ve heard that actually the body doesn’t need to sleep at all but the mind needs 3 hrs/night. I appreciate that you likely won’t agree much with this viewpoint!

You need lost REM-sleep to be “born again,” feel loved, worthwhile, optimistic? Can’t agree with that one either. I feel born again, loved, worthwhile and optimistic most of the time and I don’t go for sleep so much. I like to stay up all night drinking tequila or fizzy wine then shag for a while and get up for a bit of dynamic meditation at 7. Often don’t sleep a couple of nights. Usually I don’t even feel tired. If you’re in the flow, if you’re moving with your energy and your body’s open you can do pretty much whatever the fuck you like. That’s my experience.

All in all, when you focus totally on being who you are as opposed to identifying yourself as having all these complaints that need treating, or feelings that need altering, or beliefs that need changing, then life is just cool.

Nick

—–Original Message—–
From: Edfriedrichs@aol.com [mailto:Edfriedrichs@aol.com]
Sent: 03 April 2006 00:06
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] Stop getting trapped:

You guys/gals can’t decide whether you’re talking psychology or micro-chemistry of the brain.  When are you going to pay attention to SLEEP, SLEEP DEPRIVATION and SLEEP REPLACEMENT……..before, during and after drug abuse?  All drugs of abuse destroy normal sleep physiology, leaving the user with an chemicaly “exhausted/depleted” brain, fraught with anxiety, impulses and rage, not to mention self-depreciation and obsessions……ALL the sequelae of a tired brain.  Doctors also make this most frustrating, because they not only ignore sleep, but CAN’T treat it with anything safe.  The most severe SLEEP DEPRIVATION in addiction is that of REM-Stage Dreaming Sleep, and we get very, very, very far behind in that essental emotionally uplifting by physically “exhausting”/relaxing Stage of Sleep.  Only Ibogaine (et other psychedelics) “replaces” lost REM-Sleep, which is necessary to be “born again,” feel loved, worthwhile and optimistic, as we did as infants!  After Ibogaine, if we can’t find a “normal” amount of sleep each night, week or month, we will relapse into the same frightful state of exhaustion with Anxiety, Impulses, Rage and Compulsions.  Most of you MAY have a significant physically, not psychologically, impaired Sleep Mechanism, which is not likely to return to baseline, without some chemical manipulation of the Sleep Mechanism, about which orthodox medicine/psychiatry are not even “curious” as yet, not to mention still producing “drugs” which further destroy normal healing Sleep.  Any comments?  I’m waiting patiently!  Dr. Ed

From: “Nick Sandberg” <nick227@tiscali.co.uk>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Opiates
Date: April 2, 2006 at 6:02:20 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Alan,

I don’t really have the time to get involved in long, mind-y debates about stuff and how the world is/should be. Short, mind-y debates I can handle! So if you want to keep it to a couple of sentences or paragraphs I can do this. Something I’ve learned over the last few decades – If you want to make peace in the world you have to start with your own heart, your own psyche. You have to examine your own repressed conflicts that you carry around. If you don’t do this it’s inevitable that they will be projected onto the world and you will experience it as opposing forces warring. If you own it yourself, if you take it on as your responsibility, stuff can change. You can undermine your own energy through adherence to democratic process and really listen and take in what everyone has to say. Fine. But then you also have to look deep inside and ask – “Does this really make me happy?” If the answer isn’t Yes then it’s time to take the gloves off a bit and stretch out a bit more on a limb.

Ibogaine is an encounter drug, if ever there was one, for sure! You also have to take that back out and into the world and continue the process.

Nick

—–Original Message—–
From: Alan Hehe [mailto:a.h.veil68@hotmail.com]
Sent: 01 April 2006 15:10
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Opiates

Hey Nick,
Well, I do agree with you about most of this post…And it’s defintely true that many, many people–esp. Americans–are totally screwed up. This is due to the fact that we live in a society which causes all kinds of stressfull, antagonistic, and confrontational situations…Yet mostly these are of a social nature, and we’re bound by society’s laws and ettiquette expectations. The body is still reacting as it did hundreds or thousands of years ago, by releasing adrenaline and creating a fight/flight response. Yet this response is not appropriate in our society, so we’re left with all this unused adrenaline, which, when not utilized, is not only very unpleasant, but also damaging to the C.N.S.
So, yes, we end up with all kinds of represssed feelings…Actually, as far as your therapy goes in relation to this, it very well may be quite beneficial…it’s the use of it on addicts that I’m not so sure about, because they receive so much abuse already…and, like I said before, the only thing that’s going to change an addict is himself. He or She has to make that decision, and then be assisted by chemical (ibogaine) therapy…And it seems like, from what I’ve heard, ibogaine causes one to confront themselves in a way that another person could never achieve.
I have anger isssues of my own….a bit of road rage, alot of anger at the state of my country and the world..a world where a child starves every 2 seconds and at the same time millionaires have 14 different cars and 3 houses. We are being lied to left and right, being manipulated with disinformation, and..well, I could go on and on. I think listening, and letting the addict, or whomever, rant and rave and get some of this off their chests would be much more beneficial than the counselor yelling…although, maybe you are right, and in some cases this is needed to break down the emotional wall that keeps people from opening up. But, let me tell you, I’ve been on methadone for quite awhile, and I still have anxiety problems! The only drugs which seem to relieve this are benzodiazepines (like Valium, Xanax), another group of drugs that have been demonized due to a few idiots, knowing no better, killing themselves with them. The Govt. constantly is saying no drugs, don’t do them (although, ironically, 99% of the commercials are about marijuana, one of the few drugs that you simply can’t overdose with!) but, due to their lies and disinformation about pot, they’ve lost their credibility with the youth…and they never give out information, like “Hey, if you mix opiates with alcohol and/or benzodizepines, there’s a good chance that you will die…..”! That kind of stuff enrages me to no end, not to mention the conspiracy issues it brings up.
Well, I’ve rambled on for quite enough….Sincerely, A.

From: “Nick Sandberg” <nick227@tiscali.co.uk>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Opiates
Date: Sat, 1 Apr 2006 11:00:01 +0100

Hi Alan,

I’m not so much of an expert on psychopharmacology, so am happy whatever you believe, as I don’t have the background to contest it. What I know is that opiates are narcotic analgesics, they stop you feeling. This is basically what they do, they reinforce the body’s own repression system. From that, I don’t think it’s unreasonable to suggest that, if someone is struggling to hold down excess feelings, they will experience high levels of daily anxiety. If they take a drug which helps to push all the feelings back into unconsciousness, an analgesic like heroin for example, then it will feel blissful. The anxiety is gone for a while and it feels great. This seems pretty reasonable to me.

I also know what I see…and that is, time and time again, opiate users have a lot of feelings held down within and a strong orientation not to feel them, whether it be to look for some kind of “get out clause” in the mind or just getting the fuck out of there. Anything they can do to separate themselves from the situation, to put distance, whether mentally or physically. However, this statement is also a little bit unfair, because…

….as Peter Cohen and others have pointed out, the issue is really more societal. OK, so opiate users are resistant to feeling too much, so what? A big chunk of the population is the same, never uses opiates, but have other defence mechanisms (as psychologists term them) to keep excess feelings at bay. Stuck in a group room situation with a therapist, they would be equally likely to resist using every device they could think of. The difference is…our society pushes drug users to therapy and change far more so than the rest of the population. All sorts of people have incredibly fucked up lives, without touching drugs, yet never get any social pressure to change (of course some also do). Illicit drug users are far more likely to find themselves confronted with the cops, or sitting in a circle with other drug users saying things like “My name is Mike, and I use heroin.”

Personally, my position is…I think rising awareness is GOOD. I would love to see more people in groups, going through their stuff, becoming more aware of their personal interior dynamic, and moving forward in life. But, sadly, I’m not in a position to compel people to do this. So, mostly, it’s only people who already have the awareness to see they’re not happy with their lives that come. Plus people who’ve been socially pressured to do so by the way our society is orientated – mostly drug addicts and alcoholics. I mean, it’s patently not fair, which is what the Peter Cohen camp seeks to address. But, personally, I think anyone moving into a higher state of awareness of themselves is cool.

Nick

—–Original Message—–
From: Alan Hehe [mailto:a.h.veil68@hotmail.com]
Sent: 01 April 2006 05:09
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] Opiates

Hey Nick,

I’ve been having some strangeness with my ibogaine posts, so just in case you didn’t get my letter–which I don’t have the patience to re-write in its entirety–but here’s the real reason opiates produce pleasure, which has nothing to do with ‘repressed emotions’–although opiates, by causing euphoria, can be said to be mood enhancers. The following is from a medical site, written by an actual Doctor who studies such things:

HOW DRUGS AFFECT NEUROTRANSMITTERS

Dopamine appeared very early in the course of evolution and is involved in many functions that are essential for survival of the organism, such as motricity, attentiveness, motivation, learning, and memorization. But most of all, dopamine is a key element in identifying natural rewards for the organism. These natural stimuli such as food and water cause individuals to engage in approach behaviours. Dopamine is also involved in unconscious memorization of signs associated with these rewards. 

It has now been established that all substances that trigger dependencies in human beings increase the release of a neuromediator, dopamine, in a specific area of the brain: the nucleus accumbens. 

But not all drugs increase dopamine levels in the brain in the same way.
• Some substances imitate natural neuromediators and take their place on their receptors. Morphine, for example, binds to the receptors for endorphin (a natural “morphine” produced by the brain), while nicotine binds to the receptors for acetylcholine.
• Other substances increase the secretion of natural neuromediators. Cocaine, for example, mainly increases the amount of dopamine in the synapses, while ecstasy mainly increases the amount of serotonin.
• Still other substances block a natural neuromediator. Alcohol, for example, blocks the NMDA receptors.
Click on the names of each of the following drugs to read about how they work and what effects they have.
Alcohol —– Opiates (heroin, morphine, etc.) —– Cocaïne —– Nicotine
Caffeine —– Amphetamines —– Cannabis —– Ecstasy —– Benzodiazepines

  • Opiates (heroin, morphine, etc.)
    The human body naturally produces its own opiate-like substances and uses them as neurotransmitters. These substances include endorphins, enkephalins, and dynorphin, often collectively known as endogenous opioids. Endogenous opioids modulate our reactions to painful stimuli. They also regulate vital functions such as hunger and thirst and are involved in mood control, immune response, and other processes. 

The reason that opiates such as heroin and morphine affect us so powerfully is that these exogenous substances bind to the same receptors as our endogenous opioids. There are three kinds of receptors widely distributed throughout the brain: mu, delta, and kappa receptors. 

These receptors, through second messengers, influence the likelihood that ion channels will open, which in certain cases reduces the excitability of neurons. This reduced excitability is the likely source of the euphoric effect of opiates and appears to be mediated by the mu and delta receptors. 

This euphoric effect also appears to involve another mechanism in which the GABA-inhibitory interneurons of the ventral tegmental area come into play. By attaching to their mu receptors, exogenous opioids reduce the amount of GABA released (see animation). Normally, GABA reduces the amount of dopamine released in the nucleus accumbens. By inhibiting this inhibitor, the opiates ultimately increase the amount of dopamine produced and the amount of pleasure felt. 

Chronic consumption of opiates inhibits the production of cAMP, but this inhibition is offset in the long run by other cAMP production mechanisms. When no opiates are available, this increased cAMP production capacity comes to the fore and results in neural hyperactivity and the sensation of craving the drug.
    General links about opiates:

Find just what you’re after with the new, more precise MSN Search – try it now! /]=———————————————————————=[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%] \]=———————————————————————=[/

Get MSN Messenger with FREE Video Conversation – the next best thing to being there! /]=———————————————————————=[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%] \]=———————————————————————=[/

From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] this list is messed up!
Date: April 3, 2006 at 2:34:06 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I have been getting some messages from postmaster saying messages delayed and/or undeliverable. Anyone else having this problem?
Some of the posts I am not getting. I read the replies you folks are writing but did not receive original message.
Callie

From: “Alan Hehe” <a.h.veil68@hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Stop getting trapped:
Date: April 2, 2006 at 11:09:34 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Dr Ed,
I think you’ve made some very valid points! When I feel good enough to sleep, I always fight it to stay up and enjoy the “bliss” of my “repressed emotions!” LOL! And then we I truly get tired, I can’t get into a deep. R>E>M style sleep! I can’t remember the last time I woke up and said “Man, I feel great!”  I’m just waiting till I can afford the treatment, and I’m all about Ibogaine…it’s an answered prayer, if everything I’ve heard is true…unfortunately, I live in the states, so I have to gather treatment money and travel money……Thanks for your input…………………Sincerely, Alan.

From: Edfriedrichs@aol.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] Stop getting trapped:
Date: Sun, 2 Apr 2006 19:05:42 EDT

You guys/gals can’t decide whether you’re talking psychology or micro-chemistry of the brain.  When are you going to pay attention to SLEEP, SLEEP DEPRIVATION and SLEEP REPLACEMENT……..before, during and after drug abuse?  All drugs of abuse destroy normal sleep physiology, leaving the user with an chemicaly “exhausted/depleted” brain, fraught with anxiety, impulses and rage, not to mention self-depreciation and obsessions……ALL the sequelae of a tired brain.  Doctors also make this most frustrating, because they not only ignore sleep, but CAN’T treat it with anything safe.  The most severe SLEEP DEPRIVATION in addiction is that of REM-Stage Dreaming Sleep, and we get very, very, very far behind in that essental emotionally uplifting by physically “exhausting”/relaxing Stage of Sleep.  Only Ibogaine (et other psychedelics) “replaces” lost REM-Sleep, which is necessary to be “born again,” feel loved, worthwhile and optimistic, as we did as infants!  After Ibogaine, if we can’t find a “normal” amount of sleep each night, week or month, we will relapse into the same frightful state of exhaustion with Anxiety, Impulses, Rage and Compulsions.  Most of you MAY have a significant physically, not psychologically, impaired Sleep Mechanism, which is not likely to return to baseline, without some chemical manipulation of the Sleep Mechanism, about which orthodox medicine/psychiatry are not even “curious” as yet, not to mention still producing “drugs” which further destroy normal healing Sleep.  Any comments?  I’m waiting patiently!  Dr. Ed

With MSN Spaces email straight to your blog. Upload jokes, photos and more. It’s free! /]=———————————————————————=[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%] \]=———————————————————————=[/

From: “Sara Glatt” <sara119@xs4all.nl>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] OT from methadone list – Herman Joseph on stigma and methadone
Date: April 2, 2006 at 10:29:11 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

“I am 100% responsible for everything that happens to me.” Nick Wrote,

I think that people in a confused mind setting can not be responsible for
everything that happens to them.

How the above is valid in the below info., nine years old girl,huh, and
the rest. well they are not drug addicts but religion is an opiate of the
people, when there is no religion then drug use become a ritual and a
religion.

These are just some of the facts that Muslims have been keeping secret,
but they are
enough to make any reasonable person doubt the validity of Islam. Muhammad
was
guilty of countless murders and of torturing his victims. He robbed
caravans and
participated in the slave-trade. His persecution of the Jews bordered on
genocide.
His polygamy went beyond that which even his own revelations permitted
(though he
did receive a revelation saying that this was okay for him). One of his
wives was a
nine-year-old girl, whose earliest duties in Muhammad’s house included the
constant
task of washing the semen stains off his clothes. At times he believed he was
demon-possessed or under the effect of magic. He was known to be suicidal. He
admittedly received a message from Satan and delivered it to the people as
if it
were from God. He declared that women have half the intellectual ability
that men
have, that it is okay for men to beat their wives, that most of the
inhabitants of
hell are women, and that, even if a woman somehow makes it to heaven, her
eternity
will consist of standing in a corner, waiting for men to sexually enjoy
her.[21]

These details about Muhammad raise a very important question: What does a
prophet
have to do before Muslims will be willing to question whether he is truly the
greatest moral example in history? Normally, when we say that someone is a
moral
person, we mean that he doesn’t commit acts such as robbery and murder.
Yet Muhammad
did all these things and much more. It appears, then, that Muslims are
using the
term “moral” in a very unique way. In this uniquely Muslim sense of the
term, the
word “moral” is defined as “whatever Muhammad does.” Thus, if Muhammad
were to chop
off the heads of hundreds of people (which he did), this act would still
be defined
as a moral act, since Muhammad did it, and anything Muhammad does is, by
definition,
moral.

But this raises another important question. If God’s greatest prophet is
free to
take part in murder, robbery, genocide, and slave-trading, can we really
point a
finger at people like Osama bin Laden and Saddam Hussein and say that they
are evil?
They killed many innocents, but so did Muhammad. Saddam tortured countless
people,
but so did Muhammad. In fact, one could make a case that Osama bin Laden
is morally
superior to Muhammad, for, while bin Laden killed thousands of people, he
didn’t
sell their wives and children into slavery, or have sex with a little
girl, or marry
more than a dozen women.

The truth about Muhammad has been one of the world’s best-kept secrets. For
centuries, it has been virtually impossible to raise objections about the
character
of Muhammad in Muslim countries, for anyone who raised such objections would
(following the example set by Muhammad himself) immediately be killed.
Outside the
Muslim world, there has been little interest in Islam, and those who have
been
interested have typically relied on modern Muslim reports about Muhammad,
such as
the above passage from Mawdudi. But things have changed. Now many people are
interested in Islam, and Muslims aren’t able to silence everyone.
Moreover, with the
advent of the Internet, it is now impossible to keep Muhammad’s life a
secret. The
facts about the founder of Islam are spreading very rapidly, and Muslims are
frantically scurrying to defend their faith. But the information
superhighway is
paving over the ignorance that has for centuries been the stronghold of
Islamic
dogma. In the end, Islam will fall, for the entire structure is built upon
the
belief that Muhammad was the greatest moral example in history, and this
belief is
demonstrably false.

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] (Sorta WAY OT!- semi-nuddie pics) Fw: slipper pix
Date: April 2, 2006 at 10:10:39 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Couldn’t see pics….will you send as attachment?
Love, Callie

From: Sandra Karpetas <sandra@ibogatherapyhouse.net>
Subject: [Ibogaine] Re: (Sorta WAY OT!- semi-nuddie pics) Fw: slipper pix
Date: April 2, 2006 at 11:01:29 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

heya Preston,

about the headrush thing, it can happen when your blood pressure’s low, sudden drops in blood pressure can lead brief dizziness, impaired vision and coordination. Low blood sugar, rapid changes in blood sugar and dehydration can cause it too…i think bud lowers blood sugar, no? you said you were  crunching down behind the tables and i wonder if you prolly got up too quickly? it’s a mighty potent combo of forces at work there especially if there’s a chance you haven’t been drinking enough water bro…

btw, what kinda music do you spin for cabaret events? u heard of the tiger lillies, dresden dolls,  devotchka, circus contraption, and other weird sheiza like that?…its some of my fave weirdness for burlesque and vaudeville.

cheers,

~sandra

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: captkirk <captkirk@clear.net.nz>
Subject: [Ibogaine] Re: sleep Dep.
Date: April 2, 2006 at 11:42:26 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I had a reasonable amount of success using Kava capsules.
For the first week after the Ibogaine though, there was very
little sleep, but there is also a lot of “stuff” to work
thru and my awake time seemed like a dream state.  Guess not
everybody would handle that.
I’ve been sleeping pretty well for the past few weeks.
KIrk

—– Original Message Follows —–
You guys/gals can’t decide whether you’re talking
psychology or  micro-chemistry of the brain.  When are you
going to pay attention to SLEEP, SLEEP  DEPRIVATION and
SLEEP REPLACEMENT……..before, during and after drug
abuse?  All  drugs of abuse destroy normal sleep
physiology, leaving the user with an  chemicaly
“exhausted/depleted” brain, fraught with anxiety, impulses
and rage, not to  mention self-depreciation and
obsessions……ALL the sequelae of a tired  brain.
Doctors also make this most frustrating, because they not
only ignore  sleep, but CAN’T treat it with anything safe.
The most severe SLEEP DEPRIVATION  in addiction is that
of REM-Stage Dreaming Sleep, and we get very, very, very
far behind in that essental emotionally uplifting by
physically  “exhausting”/relaxing Stage of Sleep.  Only
Ibogaine (et other psychedelics) “replaces” lost
REM-Sleep, which is necessary to be “born again,” feel
loved, worthwhile and  optimistic, as we did as infants!
After Ibogaine, if we can’t find a “normal”  amount of
sleep each night, week or month, we will relapse into the
same  frightful state of exhaustion with Anxiety, Impulses
, Rage and Compulsions.  Most  of you MAY have a
significant physically, not psychologically, impaired
Sleep  Mechanism, which is not likely to return to
baseline, without some chemical  manipulation of the Sleep
Mechanism, about which orthodox medicine/psychiatry are
not even “curious” as yet, not to mention still producing
“drugs” which  further destroy normal healing Sleep.  Any
comments?  I’m waiting patiently!  Dr.  Ed

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: Edfriedrichs@aol.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] Stop getting trapped:
Date: April 2, 2006 at 7:05:42 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

You guys/gals can’t decide whether you’re talking psychology or micro-chemistry of the brain.  When are you going to pay attention to SLEEP, SLEEP DEPRIVATION and SLEEP REPLACEMENT……..before, during and after drug abuse?  All drugs of abuse destroy normal sleep physiology, leaving the user with an chemicaly “exhausted/depleted” brain, fraught with anxiety, impulses and rage, not to mention self-depreciation and obsessions……ALL the sequelae of a tired brain.  Doctors also make this most frustrating, because they not only ignore sleep, but CAN’T treat it with anything safe.  The most severe SLEEP DEPRIVATION in addiction is that of REM-Stage Dreaming Sleep, and we get very, very, very far behind in that essental emotionally uplifting by physically “exhausting”/relaxing Stage of Sleep.  Only Ibogaine (et other psychedelics) “replaces” lost REM-Sleep, which is necessary to be “born again,” feel loved, worthwhile and optimistic, as we did as infants!  After Ibogaine, if we can’t find a “normal” amount of sleep each night, week or month, we will relapse into the same frightful state of exhaustion with Anxiety, Impulses, Rage and Compulsions.  Most of you MAY have a significant physically, not psychologically, impaired Sleep Mechanism, which is not likely to return to baseline, without some chemical manipulation of the Sleep Mechanism, about which orthodox medicine/psychiatry are not even “curious” as yet, not to mention still producing “drugs” which further destroy normal healing Sleep.  Any comments?  I’m waiting patiently!  Dr. Ed

From: “Alan Hehe” <a.h.veil68@hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] (Sorta WAY OT!- semi-nuddie pics) Fw: slipper pix
Date: April 2, 2006 at 7:56:05 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Yes Preston! Thanks for the photos! Made my night! Although I may have to get a new keyboard now…..just kidding. lol. Man, you have it goin’ ON!!

From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: <drugwar@mindvox.com>, <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] (Sorta WAY OT!- semi-nuddie pics) Fw: slipper pix
Date: Sun, 2 Apr 2006 10:46:16 -0400

HI all,
Just thought I’d share the photos below. Hopefully they won’t clog up people’s boxes, and if they do I humbly apologize.
But I thought I’d share how I spend most weekends. These were taken Friday night while I was dj’ing Hot Box, the Slipper Room’s Friday night burlesque extravaganza, and unfortunately these photos don’t do the humor and talent credit. Still, some of these are quite good. (V dj’s every other Saturday now, for Mr. Choad’s Upstairs/Downstairs burlesque show, instead of each Saturday as she did for the last 3 years or so- and she isn’t in any of these shots, not being a dancer, even though she could probably clean up doing so.)
;-))
Anyway, hope everyone is having a good Sunday and not overtaxing themselves with worry, stress or the absolute weirdness about how some folk seem to think “abusive” language and behavior and “therapeutic” can, logically, fit together in any sane, rational treatment of addicts and drug abusers.
BTW, the girl with the tattoos (Peekaboo Point) is my pilates trainer.
And, though it isn’t obvious from the one photo of me in here, just to tie this in in a wee manner to the topic at hand, I am seriously baked to the gills during this particular evening’s event, so baked in fact that I had the most overwhelming headrush I’ve ever had on Friday night, at least since the first summer I ever smoked pot. After having taken a huge hit of the BEST EVER Strawberry Cough while crouched down behind the turntables out of sight of the packed house, I then stood up and whoa! Head Rush! I almost fell over and did in fact accidentally hit the fade switch during said blinding rush, and conked out the music for a few second because I couldn’t see anything nor could I hear through the high-pitched keening sound in my ears from the blood rushing (into? Out of?) my ears. When it first started, I thought for a second that the cd was screwing up or something and reached for the machine to do some finagling, only to find myself struck blind and deaf by the headrush. What causes this? Does anyone know the science behind this phenomenon, what causes a headrush I mean?
Anyway, enjoy the photos.
—–
“If God dropped acid, would he see people?”  ~Steven Wright

Peace, love and lotsof respect.
Preston Peet
ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor Underground- the Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations, Astonishing Archaeology and Hidden History
Editor Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Columnist HighTimes mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.
—– Original Message —–
From: ABuckit@aol.com
To:
Cc: ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Sent: Saturday, April 01, 2006 5:34 PM
Subject: Re: slipper pix

Allo D.T.

From last night.

If you would be most kind and pass these pictures onto the others, as I don’t have their emails. I have many more, these are a quick selection.
Also, Miss D.T., Are you getting my emails? You are on the list.
Again, a treat to see you last night, Much love

Adrian

><< image5.jpg >>

Save time by starting a search from any Web page with the MSN Search Toolbar-FREE! /]=———————————————————————=[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%] \]=———————————————————————=[/

From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] (Sorta WAY OT!- semi-nuddie pics) Fw: slipper pix
Date: April 2, 2006 at 10:46:16 AM EDT
To: <drugwar@mindvox.com>, <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

HI all,
Just thought I’d share the photos below. Hopefully they won’t clog up people’s boxes, and if they do I humbly apologize.
But I thought I’d share how I spend most weekends. These were taken Friday night while I was dj’ing Hot Box, the Slipper Room’s Friday night burlesque extravaganza, and unfortunately these photos don’t do the humor and talent credit. Still, some of these are quite good. (V dj’s every other Saturday now, for Mr. Choad’s Upstairs/Downstairs burlesque show, instead of each Saturday as she did for the last 3 years or so- and she isn’t in any of these shots, not being a dancer, even though she could probably clean up doing so.)
;-))
Anyway, hope everyone is having a good Sunday and not overtaxing themselves with worry, stress or the absolute weirdness about how some folk seem to think “abusive” language and behavior and “therapeutic” can, logically, fit together in any sane, rational treatment of addicts and drug abusers.
BTW, the girl with the tattoos (Peekaboo Point) is my pilates trainer.
And, though it isn’t obvious from the one photo of me in here, just to tie this in in a wee manner to the topic at hand, I am seriously baked to the gills during this particular evening’s event, so baked in fact that I had the most overwhelming headrush I’ve ever had on Friday night, at least since the first summer I ever smoked pot. After having taken a huge hit of the BEST EVER Strawberry Cough while crouched down behind the turntables out of sight of the packed house, I then stood up and whoa! Head Rush! I almost fell over and did in fact accidentally hit the fade switch during said blinding rush, and conked out the music for a few second because I couldn’t see anything nor could I hear through the high-pitched keening sound in my ears from the blood rushing (into? Out of?) my ears. When it first started, I thought for a second that the cd was screwing up or something and reached for the machine to do some finagling, only to find myself struck blind and deaf by the headrush. What causes this? Does anyone know the science behind this phenomenon, what causes a headrush I mean?
Anyway, enjoy the photos.
—–
“If God dropped acid, would he see people?”  ~Steven Wright

Peace, love and lotsof respect.
Preston Peet
ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor Underground- the Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations, Astonishing Archaeology and Hidden History
Editor Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Columnist HighTimes mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.
—– Original Message —–
From: ABuckit@aol.com
To:
Cc: ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Sent: Saturday, April 01, 2006 5:34 PM
Subject: Re: slipper pix

Allo D.T.

From last night.

If you would be most kind and pass these pictures onto the others, as I don’t have their emails. I have many more, these are a quick selection.
Also, Miss D.T., Are you getting my emails? You are on the list.
Again, a treat to see you last night, Much love

Adrian

From: “Alan Hehe” <a.h.veil68@hotmail.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] Pot calling the Kettle Black?
Date: April 2, 2006 at 12:31:45 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hey…uh, Biscuit Boy,
What’s the matter? Do you NOT like my debate with Nick, or do you just not like the fact that Ann paid me a compliment? Do you agree with Nick’s idea that only emotionally repressed individuals receive any sort of high from opiates? If you’ve got something to say, why not come out and say it? Have you never done opiates? Or any drugs? What gives you the right to judge Ann? Personally I don’t care if her comment was influened by a whole gram of Mexican brown! Better a nice compliment from someone high, than a nasty one from someone sober! Now, if I’ve misconstrued your intent, I apologize, but I would appreciate a logical explanation rather than a low-blow insinuation.

From:  biscuitboy714@aol.com
Reply-To:  ibogaine@mindvox.com
To:  ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject:  Re: [Ibogaine] Opiate effects
Date:  Sun, 02 Apr 2006 11:05:09 -0400
>Yea Ann, tell us how much heroin you shot last night. He He I
>couldn’t help it. I love you Mamma           Randy
>
>—–Original Message—–
>From: Alan Hehe <a.h.veil68@hotmail.com>
>To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
>Sent: Sat, 01 Apr 2006 11:15:03 -0500
>Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Opiate effects
>
>     Hey Ann,
>
>     Thank you for the compliment…Somebody’s got to try to counter
>his crazy ideas with some sense. Feel free to write me anytime..I
>really enjoy talking to people on this list and hearing their
>stories…Oh, don’t tell anyone, but I studied semantics and debate
>in high school! Just kidding…about the hush hush, as anyone will
>be able to read this. Oh, heck–LOL! I’m 37, and High school is but
>a distant, mainly unplesant experience…except when I would catch
>my English teacher making grammatical or syntactical mistakes,
>before they moved me into an A.P. college-level class…And no, I’m
>not conceited, either..but I do enjoy debate! Everyone has certain
>qualities at which they excel, and others at which they are
>deficient. I make up for my skill in English by being a retard in
>math! Plus, I couldn’t be that smart or I wouldn’t be here, looking
>for a way out of the hell-hole I dug for myself….and despite
>having a really shitty childhood, I take complete responsibility for
>my current position in
>life……………………………….Wishing you the best in
>all…….Alan.
>
>
>
>  ——–
>From: “Ann B. Mullikin” <think@francomm.com>
>Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
>To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
>Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Opiate effects
>Date: Sat, 1 Apr 2006 10:04:20 -0500
>
>  No, I am not Nick but…..
>
>  Bravo, Alan.  I surely do appreciate the way you use your brain –
>TO THINK AND TO REASON.  Its good stuff.  Keep on.
>
>ann
>think@francomm.com
>
>  —– Original Message —–
>From: Alan Hehe
>To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
>Sent: Friday, March 31, 2006 4:49 PM
>Subject: [Ibogaine] Opiate effects
>
>
>    Hey Nick,
>
>     I wanted to say that, although I was basically right, I believe
>(and according to the research I’ve done) about the reason opiates
>cause pleasure, I wasn’t entirely correct about the natural opiates
>(dopamine,etc) having an effect on mood. They do have an affect on
>mood..but then again, so does euphoria..in fact, it could be said to
>be a mood unto itself. Here’s a little medical info for: Opiates
>(heroin, morphine, etc.)
>
>  The human body naturally produces its own opiate-like substances
>and uses them as neurotransmitters. These substances include
>endorphins, enkephalins, and dynorphin, often collectively known as
>endogenous opioids. Endogenous opioids modulate our reactions to
>painful stimuli. They also regulate vital functions such as hunger
>and thirst and are involved in mood control, immune response, and
>other processes.
>
>The reason that opiates such as heroin and morphine affect us so
>powerfully is that these exogenous substances bind to the same
>receptors as our endogenous opioids. There are three kinds of
>receptors widely distributed throughout the brain: mu, delta, and
>kappa receptors.
>
>These receptors, through second messengers, influence the likelihood
>that ion channels will open, which in certain cases reduces the
>excitability of neurons. This reduced excitability is the likely
>source of the euphoric effect of opiates and appears to be mediated
>by the mu and delta receptors.
>
>This euphoric effect also appears to involve another mechanism in
>which the GABA-inhibitory interneurons of the ventral tegmental area
>come into play. By attaching to their mu receptors, exogenous
>opioids reduce the amount of GABA released (see animation).
>Normally, GABA reduces the amount of dopamine released in the
>nucleus accumbens. By inhibiting this inhibitor, the opiates
>ultimately increase the amount of dopamine produced and the amount
>of pleasure felt.
>
>Chronic consumption of opiates inhibits the production of cAMP, but
>this inhibition is offset in the long run by other cAMP production
>mechanisms. When no opiates are available, this increased cAMP
>production capacity comes to the fore and results in neural
>hyperactivity and the sensation of craving the drug.
>
>
>
>
>——–
>  Make FREE PC-to-PC calls with MSN Messenger. Get it now!
>/]=———————————————————————=
>[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands:
>http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
>\]=———————————————————————=
>[/
>
>
>——–
>  Find just what you’re after with the new, more precise MSN Search
>- try it now!
>/]=———————————————————————=
>[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands:
>http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
>\]=———————————————————————=
>[/
>
>
>
>
>/]=———————————————————————=[\
>[%] Ibogaine List Commands:
>http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
>
>\]=———————————————————————=[/
>
>

Be one of the first to try Windows Live Mail /]=———————————————————————=[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%] \]=———————————————————————=[/

From: biscuitboy714@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Opiate effects
Date: April 2, 2006 at 11:05:09 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Yea Ann, tell us how much heroin you shot last night. He He I couldn’t help it. I love you Mamma           Randy

—–Original Message—–
From: Alan Hehe <a.h.veil68@hotmail.com>
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Sat, 01 Apr 2006 11:15:03 -0500
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Opiate effects

Hey Ann,

Thank you for the compliment…Somebody’s got to try to counter his crazy ideas with some sense. Feel free to write me anytime..I really enjoy talking to people on this list and hearing their stories…Oh, don’t tell anyone, but I studied semantics and debate in high school! Just kidding…about the hush hush, as anyone will be able to read this. Oh, heck–LOL! I’m 37, and High school is but a distant, mainly unplesant experience…except when I would catch my English teacher making grammatical or syntactical mistakes, before they moved me into an A.P. college-level class…And no, I’m not conceited, either..but I do enjoy debate! Everyone has certain qualities at which they excel, and others at which they are deficient. I make up for my skill in English by being a retard in math! Plus, I couldn’t be that smart or I wouldn’t be here, looking for a way out of the hell-hole I dug for myself….and despite having a really shitty childhood, I take complete responsibility for my current position in life……………………………….Wishing you the best in all…….Alan.

——–
From: “Ann B. Mullikin” <think@francomm.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Opiate effects
Date: Sat, 1 Apr 2006 10:04:20 -0500

No, I am not Nick but…..

Bravo, Alan.  I surely do appreciate the way you use your brain – TO THINK AND TO REASON.  Its good stuff.  Keep on.

ann
think@francomm.com

—– Original Message —–
From: Alan Hehe
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Friday, March 31, 2006 4:49 PM
Subject: [Ibogaine] Opiate effects

Hey Nick,

I wanted to say that, although I was basically right, I believe (and according to the research I’ve done) about the reason opiates cause pleasure, I wasn’t entirely correct about the natural opiates (dopamine,etc) having an effect on mood. They do have an affect on mood..but then again, so does euphoria..in fact, it could be said to be a mood unto itself. Here’s a little medical info for: Opiates (heroin, morphine, etc.)

The human body naturally produces its own opiate-like substances and uses them as neurotransmitters. These substances include endorphins, enkephalins, and dynorphin, often collectively known as endogenous opioids. Endogenous opioids modulate our reactions to painful stimuli. They also regulate vital functions such as hunger and thirst and are involved in mood control, immune response, and other processes.

The reason that opiates such as heroin and morphine affect us so powerfully is that these exogenous substances bind to the same receptors as our endogenous opioids. There are three kinds of receptors widely distributed throughout the brain: mu, delta, and kappa receptors.

These receptors, through second messengers, influence the likelihood that ion channels will open, which in certain cases reduces the excitability of neurons. This reduced excitability is the likely source of the euphoric effect of opiates and appears to be mediated by the mu and delta receptors.

This euphoric effect also appears to involve another mechanism in which the GABA-inhibitory interneurons of the ventral tegmental area come into play. By attaching to their mu receptors, exogenous opioids reduce the amount of GABA released (see animation). Normally, GABA reduces the amount of dopamine released in the nucleus accumbens. By inhibiting this inhibitor, the opiates ultimately increase the amount of dopamine produced and the amount of pleasure felt.

Chronic consumption of opiates inhibits the production of cAMP, but this inhibition is offset in the long run by other cAMP production mechanisms. When no opiates are available, this increased cAMP production capacity comes to the fore and results in neural hyperactivity and the sensation of craving the drug.

——–
Make FREE PC-to-PC calls with MSN Messenger. Get it now! /]=———————————————————————=
[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%] \]=———————————————————————=
[/

——–
Find just what you’re after with the new, more precise MSN Search – try it now!   /]=———————————————————————=
[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%] \]=———————————————————————=
[/
/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: “Nick Sandberg” <nick227@tiscali.co.uk>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Opiates
Date: April 2, 2006 at 5:24:07 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

—–Original Message—–
From: Tiger Lisa [mailto:tigerlisa@gmail.com]
Sent: 01 April 2006 13:44
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Opiates

Dear Nick,
Here’ the part I don’t understand.

You wrote,
Personally, my position is…I think rising awareness is GOOD. I would love to see more people in groups, going through their stuff, becoming more aware of their personal interior dynamic, and moving forward in life. But, sadly, I’m not in a position to compel people to do this.

Why would you ever want to COMPEL anyone to do ANYTHING? Do you really believe that would be useful, effective, helpful? Do you think people actually benefit from, and grow from, being FORCED to do anything?

That is a parent-child model of interaction (and not a particularly skillful one, IMO), and it’s going to reinforce childlike, rebellious and victim behavior (NOT self-awareness!) in the one so compelled, as well as reinforcing bullying behavior and disprespectful and righteous attitudes (NOT increased compassion or awareness) in the one doing the compelling. A “lose-lose” interaction–no one wins!

Myself, I believe CHOICE is the name of the game. With choice comes responsibility, self-responsibility and a loss of the victim consciousness that drives continued reactive and unconscious behavior.

So in a nutshell: Saying something (like awarenss) is GOOD is one thing, but it’s a far cry from that to say,”And I’d love to FORCE you all to be more aware! too bad I can’t!” I think that is the essence of what  *I* am having a problem with. Yes, awareness is good. I agree. Yes, I’d love to live in a more aware society, umm hmm. Then I read the next sentence and I’m brought up short.

We all need love, acceptance, compassion. Compassion is one of the most healing things going! Power and control, on the other hand, just get people’s backs up, thrust them into dysfunctional modes of thinking and perpetuate a lack of awareness all around.

Just my two cents,
Tiger

PS I bet if you took a shot of heroin, you would experience bliss! (not that I’m suggesting you do) I believe it is just how human beings are wired. We’ve all got the same neurotransmitters, more or less.

Hi Tiger,

Well, I seem to recall, from the days when I used to go to conferences and stuff, that studies have shown that only a small percentage of school kids who used heroin developed a habit. (Howard Parker in Sheffield, or something like that, about 1000 individuals studied). This is not quite the same as what you’re saying, I appreciate, but it shows that the drug of itself is not necessarily addicting. I don’t know if anyone knows what makes a difference but I’d be willing to bet that, psychologically, it relates strongly to “ego orientation” vs “underlying levels of feeling.” If you’ve developed a self-image that requires you to repress more feelings than the endogenous opiates in your body can do, then taking heroin is going to make you feel pretty good. I would personally say that this is very likely one psychological mechanism behind addiction. This would explain why so many addicts do come from relatively high trauma backgrounds. For, as kids, we learn that to “get things” and to “be popular” we need to be able to keep our feelings a bit under control, not just likely to collapse from overfeeling at any time.

With bliss, (or anxiety for that matter), these are experiential things and no neuroscientist can explain them beyond pointing a little at things that seem to be involved. What is clear is that the states are relative to one another. If you’re basically a happy person bliss is inevitably less attractive than if you’re an anxious person.

About awareness, yes, I would love to force everyone to be more aware! And, inevitably, it doesn’t really work like that! But that’s my position anyway. What to do? Yes, compassion is needed, sometimes a lot of it. Also, all the power and control at times. I’m not so busy with how I think society should be, or trying to like Understand the world, I just put my position out really. About choice, well, it seems like a great thing, for sure, but to me it’s a little the same as trying to push compassion at the expense of power. In philosophy or spirituality or whatever, some people believe that free will exists, others that the universe is entirely deterministic. Who the fuck knows? Both are cool viewpoints, and I personally wouldn’t just want to just trapped in just one of them.

Is it cool to allow someone you care about to carry on fucking their life up because you believe so much in their free will? Not for me! I like to have the guts to take a position. And, to be honest, it’s a little bit what I miss in this list, where half the time everyone seems to be talking it up all nice but actually underneath there are shed-loads of feelings. I don’t know if this says anything significant about ibogaine, or about the people who are attracted to administering it, or what. But I notice it.

Nick

From: “Nick Sandberg” <nick227@tiscali.co.uk>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] from methadone list – Herman Joseph on stigma and methadone
Date: April 2, 2006 at 4:59:24 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

—–Original Message—–
From: cm [mailto:cm67@optusnet.com.au]
Sent: 30 March 2006 00:50
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] from methadone list – Herman Joseph on stigma and methadone

Howard,

I am not advocating an inhumane approach. This is not what it is about at all. I am saying that, for me, empowerment of the individual is the core means by which dependence can be broken long-term. And the absolute core of this approach is to adopt the position “I am 100% responsible for everything that happens to me.” It takes time, often a lot of time, and a lot of work is needed before someone can take this position. If a therapist starts from the position that addiction is the result of societal conditioning, I think it greatly weakens the process. That’s my opinion.

Working with people, some with addiction issues, others with different issues, it’s clear to me that treating addiction does have specific angles to it that make it distinct from other conditions. Again and again in addicts I do see this absolutely resolute desire not to self-examine, not to look at their behaviour. A lot of addicts are fucking great people, frankly, imo. But this issue is present, this incredible capacity to avoid. When treatment starts to go more down the pc road, I think you also have to check in that you’re not simply patronizing the whole “poor baby” routine. It is a very easy thing to be popular with addicts, the easiest thing in the world, actually. You just adopt a position that enables them to continue avoiding. It is easy to take a humane approach. What’s tougher is to stand up and say it like it is.

Nick
hi nick,

since starting to reduce from methadone ive gone back to a brilliant counsellor that i saw a few years ago for other problems.
she tells me time and again im lucky because one of the skills i have is to step out of myself and self analyse. just thought id
let you know that not all addicts are scared of holding a mirror up to see whats going on.

chi

Hi Chi,

Yes, that is definitely the case. I also wouldn’t positively make the statement that addicts are necessarily less disposed, by their nature, to self-examination. It can equally be said that, because of the way our society regards addiction, addicts are pushed more towards self-examination. Difficult to know with these things.

Nick

From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Opiates
Date: April 1, 2006 at 7:29:37 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

You know, I don’t know if pharmacology is even important in what you all are discussing.

I think that opiates react differently in everyone. Maybe the physiological actions are the same but folks respond to the results differently.

Personally they do not stop me from feeling….that exaggerate euphoria but I still feel shame, sadness, guilt, etc.

Nick states, “From that, I don’t think it’s unreasonable to suggest that, if someone is struggling to hold down excess feelings, they will experience high levels of daily anxiety. If they take a drug which helps to push all the feelings back into unconsciousness, an analgesic like heroin for example, then it will feel blissful. The anxiety is gone for a while and it feels great. This seems pretty reasonable to me.”

Sounds reasonable to me too!

Callie

From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Tired & OK Today
Date: April 1, 2006 at 4:43:25 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Bill, So glad you replied back so fast! Good to see in the subject line that you are ok today.
Something one of my recovering buddies shared with me has helped me so much! He said, “Just do the next RIGHT thing and everything will usually be alright”. That is so true I have found.
I have to apply that to all the decisions in my life big and small. In the past I have just reacted and most of the time the next thing I did was not the ‘next right thing’ but just the ‘next thing’. That word right is very important. For me the ‘next right things’ are drinking my dose of Methadone as I am prescribed to, go to work, pay my bills, be honest in my interactions. I do not get them all right all the time but I do make daily progress and those days keep adding up!
Doing yard work today so gonna end my break. Will write and read more later!
Toodles! Callie

From: “Alan Hehe” <a.h.veil68@hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Opiates
Date: April 1, 2006 at 9:10:06 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hey Nick,
Well, I do agree with you about most of this post…And it’s defintely true that many, many people–esp. Americans–are totally screwed up. This is due to the fact that we live in a society which causes all kinds of stressfull, antagonistic, and confrontational situations…Yet mostly these are of a social nature, and we’re bound by society’s laws and ettiquette expectations. The body is still reacting as it did hundreds or thousands of years ago, by releasing adrenaline and creating a fight/flight response. Yet this response is not appropriate in our society, so we’re left with all this unused adrenaline, which, when not utilized, is not only very unpleasant, but also damaging to the C.N.S.
So, yes, we end up with all kinds of represssed feelings…Actually, as far as your therapy goes in relation to this, it very well may be quite beneficial…it’s the use of it on addicts that I’m not so sure about, because they receive so much abuse already…and, like I said before, the only thing that’s going to change an addict is himself. He or She has to make that decision, and then be assisted by chemical (ibogaine) therapy…And it seems like, from what I’ve heard, ibogaine causes one to confront themselves in a way that another person could never achieve.
I have anger isssues of my own….a bit of road rage, alot of anger at the state of my country and the world..a world where a child starves every 2 seconds and at the same time millionaires have 14 different cars and 3 houses. We are being lied to left and right, being manipulated with disinformation, and..well, I could go on and on. I think listening, and letting the addict, or whomever, rant and rave and get some of this off their chests would be much more beneficial than the counselor yelling…although, maybe you are right, and in some cases this is needed to break down the emotional wall that keeps people from opening up. But, let me tell you, I’ve been on methadone for quite awhile, and I still have anxiety problems! The only drugs which seem to relieve this are benzodiazepines (like Valium, Xanax), another group of drugs that have been demonized due to a few idiots, knowing no better, killing themselves with them. The Govt. constantly is saying no drugs, don’t do them (although, ironically, 99% of the commercials are about marijuana, one of the few drugs that you simply can’t overdose with!) but, due to their lies and disinformation about pot, they’ve lost their credibility with the youth…and they never give out information, like “Hey, if you mix opiates with alcohol and/or benzodizepines, there’s a good chance that you will die…..”! That kind of stuff enrages me to no end, not to mention the conspiracy issues it brings up.
Well, I’ve rambled on for quite enough….Sincerely, A.

From: “Nick Sandberg” <nick227@tiscali.co.uk>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Opiates
Date: Sat, 1 Apr 2006 11:00:01 +0100

Hi Alan,

I’m not so much of an expert on psychopharmacology, so am happy whatever you believe, as I don’t have the background to contest it. What I know is that opiates are narcotic analgesics, they stop you feeling. This is basically what they do, they reinforce the body’s own repression system. From that, I don’t think it’s unreasonable to suggest that, if someone is struggling to hold down excess feelings, they will experience high levels of daily anxiety. If they take a drug which helps to push all the feelings back into unconsciousness, an analgesic like heroin for example, then it will feel blissful. The anxiety is gone for a while and it feels great. This seems pretty reasonable to me.

I also know what I see…and that is, time and time again, opiate users have a lot of feelings held down within and a strong orientation not to feel them, whether it be to look for some kind of “get out clause” in the mind or just getting the fuck out of there. Anything they can do to separate themselves from the situation, to put distance, whether mentally or physically. However, this statement is also a little bit unfair, because…

….as Peter Cohen and others have pointed out, the issue is really more societal. OK, so opiate users are resistant to feeling too much, so what? A big chunk of the population is the same, never uses opiates, but have other defence mechanisms (as psychologists term them) to keep excess feelings at bay. Stuck in a group room situation with a therapist, they would be equally likely to resist using every device they could think of. The difference is…our society pushes drug users to therapy and change far more so than the rest of the population. All sorts of people have incredibly fucked up lives, without touching drugs, yet never get any social pressure to change (of course some also do). Illicit drug users are far more likely to find themselves confronted with the cops, or sitting in a circle with other drug users saying things like “My name is Mike, and I use heroin.”

Personally, my position is…I think rising awareness is GOOD. I would love to see more people in groups, going through their stuff, becoming more aware of their personal interior dynamic, and moving forward in life. But, sadly, I’m not in a position to compel people to do this. So, mostly, it’s only people who already have the awareness to see they’re not happy with their lives that come. Plus people who’ve been socially pressured to do so by the way our society is orientated – mostly drug addicts and alcoholics. I mean, it’s patently not fair, which is what the Peter Cohen camp seeks to address. But, personally, I think anyone moving into a higher state of awareness of themselves is cool.

Nick

—–Original Message—–
From: Alan Hehe [mailto:a.h.veil68@hotmail.com]
Sent: 01 April 2006 05:09
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] Opiates

Hey Nick,

I’ve been having some strangeness with my ibogaine posts, so just in case you didn’t get my letter–which I don’t have the patience to re-write in its entirety–but here’s the real reason opiates produce pleasure, which has nothing to do with ‘repressed emotions’–although opiates, by causing euphoria, can be said to be mood enhancers. The following is from a medical site, written by an actual Doctor who studies such things:

HOW DRUGS AFFECT NEUROTRANSMITTERS

Dopamine appeared very early in the course of evolution and is involved in many functions that are essential for survival of the organism, such as motricity, attentiveness, motivation, learning, and memorization. But most of all, dopamine is a key element in identifying natural rewards for the organism. These natural stimuli such as food and water cause individuals to engage in approach behaviours. Dopamine is also involved in unconscious memorization of signs associated with these rewards. 

It has now been established that all substances that trigger dependencies in human beings increase the release of a neuromediator, dopamine, in a specific area of the brain: the nucleus accumbens. 

But not all drugs increase dopamine levels in the brain in the same way.
• Some substances imitate natural neuromediators and take their place on their receptors. Morphine, for example, binds to the receptors for endorphin (a natural “morphine” produced by the brain), while nicotine binds to the receptors for acetylcholine.
• Other substances increase the secretion of natural neuromediators. Cocaine, for example, mainly increases the amount of dopamine in the synapses, while ecstasy mainly increases the amount of serotonin.
• Still other substances block a natural neuromediator. Alcohol, for example, blocks the NMDA receptors.
Click on the names of each of the following drugs to read about how they work and what effects they have.
Alcohol —– Opiates (heroin, morphine, etc.) —– Cocaןne —– Nicotine
Caffeine —– Amphetamines —– Cannabis —– Ecstasy —– Benzodiazepines

  • Opiates (heroin, morphine, etc.)
    The human body naturally produces its own opiate-like substances and uses them as neurotransmitters. These substances include endorphins, enkephalins, and dynorphin, often collectively known as endogenous opioids. Endogenous opioids modulate our reactions to painful stimuli. They also regulate vital functions such as hunger and thirst and are involved in mood control, immune response, and other processes. 

The reason that opiates such as heroin and morphine affect us so powerfully is that these exogenous substances bind to the same receptors as our endogenous opioids. There are three kinds of receptors widely distributed throughout the brain: mu, delta, and kappa receptors. 

These receptors, through second messengers, influence the likelihood that ion channels will open, which in certain cases reduces the excitability of neurons. This reduced excitability is the likely source of the euphoric effect of opiates and appears to be mediated by the mu and delta receptors. 

This euphoric effect also appears to involve another mechanism in which the GABA-inhibitory interneurons of the ventral tegmental area come into play. By attaching to their mu receptors, exogenous opioids reduce the amount of GABA released (see animation). Normally, GABA reduces the amount of dopamine released in the nucleus accumbens. By inhibiting this inhibitor, the opiates ultimately increase the amount of dopamine produced and the amount of pleasure felt. 

Chronic consumption of opiates inhibits the production of cAMP, but this inhibition is offset in the long run by other cAMP production mechanisms. When no opiates are available, this increased cAMP production capacity comes to the fore and results in neural hyperactivity and the sensation of craving the drug.
    General links about opiates:

Find just what you’re after with the new, more precise MSN Search – try it now! /]=———————————————————————=[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%] \]=———————————————————————=[/

Get MSN Messenger with FREE Video Conversation – the next best thing to being there! /]=———————————————————————=[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%] \]=———————————————————————=[/

From: “Alan Hehe” <a.h.veil68@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Opiate effects
Date: April 1, 2006 at 11:15:03 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hey Ann,
Thank you for the compliment…Somebody’s got to try to counter his crazy ideas with some sense. Feel free to write me anytime..I really enjoy talking to people on this list and hearing their stories…Oh, don’t tell anyone, but I studied semantics and debate in high school! Just kidding…about the hush hush, as anyone will be able to read this. Oh, heck–LOL! I’m 37, and High school is but a distant, mainly unplesant experience…except when I would catch my English teacher making grammatical or syntactical mistakes, before they moved me into an A.P. college-level class…And no, I’m not conceited, either..but I do enjoy debate! Everyone has certain qualities at which they excel, and others at which they are deficient. I make up for my skill in English by being a retard in math! Plus, I couldn’t be that smart or I wouldn’t be here, looking for a way out of the hell-hole I dug for myself….and despite having a really shitty childhood, I take complete responsibility for my current position in life……………………………….Wishing you the best in all…….Alan.

From: “Ann B. Mullikin” <think@francomm.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Opiate effects
Date: Sat, 1 Apr 2006 10:04:20 -0500

No, I am not Nick but…..

Bravo, Alan.  I surely do appreciate the way you use your brain – TO THINK AND TO REASON.  Its good stuff.  Keep on.

ann
think@francomm.com

—– Original Message —–
From: Alan Hehe
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Friday, March 31, 2006 4:49 PM
Subject: [Ibogaine] Opiate effects

Hey Nick,

I wanted to say that, although I was basically right, I believe (and according to the research I’ve done) about the reason opiates cause pleasure, I wasn’t entirely correct about the natural opiates (dopamine,etc) having an effect on mood. They do have an affect on mood..but then again, so does euphoria..in fact, it could be said to be a mood unto itself. Here’s a little medical info for:
Opiates (heroin, morphine, etc.)
The human body naturally produces its own opiate-like substances and uses them as neurotransmitters. These substances include endorphins, enkephalins, and dynorphin, often collectively known as endogenous opioids. Endogenous opioids modulate our reactions to painful stimuli. They also regulate vital functions such as hunger and thirst and are involved in mood control, immune response, and other processes. 

The reason that opiates such as heroin and morphine affect us so powerfully is that these exogenous substances bind to the same receptors as our endogenous opioids. There are three kinds of receptors widely distributed throughout the brain: mu, delta, and kappa receptors. 

These receptors, through second messengers, influence the likelihood that ion channels will open, which in certain cases reduces the excitability of neurons. This reduced excitability is the likely source of the euphoric effect of opiates and appears to be mediated by the mu and delta receptors. 

This euphoric effect also appears to involve another mechanism in which the GABA-inhibitory interneurons of the ventral tegmental area come into play. By attaching to their mu receptors, exogenous opioids reduce the amount of GABA released (see animation). Normally, GABA reduces the amount of dopamine released in the nucleus accumbens. By inhibiting this inhibitor, the opiates ultimately increase the amount of dopamine produced and the amount of pleasure felt. 

Chronic consumption of opiates inhibits the production of cAMP, but this inhibition is offset in the long run by other cAMP production mechanisms. When no opiates are available, this increased cAMP production capacity comes to the fore and results in neural hyperactivity and the sensation of craving the drug.

Make FREE PC-to-PC calls with MSN Messenger. Get it now! /]=———————————————————————=[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%] \]=———————————————————————=[/

Find just what you’re after with the new, more precise MSN Search – try it now! /]=———————————————————————=[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%] \]=———————————————————————=[/

From: “Ann B. Mullikin” <think@francomm.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Opiate effects
Date: April 1, 2006 at 10:04:20 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

No, I am not Nick but…..

Bravo, Alan.  I surely do appreciate the way you use your brain – TO THINK AND TO REASON.  Its good stuff.  Keep on.

ann
think@francomm.com

—– Original Message —–
From: Alan Hehe
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Friday, March 31, 2006 4:49 PM
Subject: [Ibogaine] Opiate effects

Hey Nick,

I wanted to say that, although I was basically right, I believe (and according to the research I’ve done) about the reason opiates cause pleasure, I wasn’t entirely correct about the natural opiates (dopamine,etc) having an effect on mood. They do have an affect on mood..but then again, so does euphoria..in fact, it could be said to be a mood unto itself. Here’s a little medical info for:
Opiates (heroin, morphine, etc.)
The human body naturally produces its own opiate-like substances and uses them as neurotransmitters. These substances include endorphins, enkephalins, and dynorphin, often collectively known as endogenous opioids. Endogenous opioids modulate our reactions to painful stimuli. They also regulate vital functions such as hunger and thirst and are involved in mood control, immune response, and other processes. 

The reason that opiates such as heroin and morphine affect us so powerfully is that these exogenous substances bind to the same receptors as our endogenous opioids. There are three kinds of receptors widely distributed throughout the brain: mu, delta, and kappa receptors. 

These receptors, through second messengers, influence the likelihood that ion channels will open, which in certain cases reduces the excitability of neurons. This reduced excitability is the likely source of the euphoric effect of opiates and appears to be mediated by the mu and delta receptors. 

This euphoric effect also appears to involve another mechanism in which the GABA-inhibitory interneurons of the ventral tegmental area come into play. By attaching to their mu receptors, exogenous opioids reduce the amount of GABA released (see animation). Normally, GABA reduces the amount of dopamine released in the nucleus accumbens. By inhibiting this inhibitor, the opiates ultimately increase the amount of dopamine produced and the amount of pleasure felt. 

Chronic consumption of opiates inhibits the production of cAMP, but this inhibition is offset in the long run by other cAMP production mechanisms. When no opiates are available, this increased cAMP production capacity comes to the fore and results in neural hyperactivity and the sensation of craving the drug.

Make FREE PC-to-PC calls with MSN Messenger. Get it now! /]=———————————————————————=[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%] \]=———————————————————————=[/

From: “Alan Hehe” <a.h.veil68@hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Opiates and Compel
Date: April 1, 2006 at 10:30:47 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hey Tiger,
Alan here. Just wanted to say that I totally agree with you..no one should be forced to do–or not allowed to do, IMO–anything, as long as it doesn’t hurt another person. It’s my belief that have of the teens who do drugs, is because they are told so many times not to. I  remember being very young and hearing about drug prohibition, and even then, at the age of 6 or so, I couldn’t believe that someone could tell you, under penalty if you dis-obeyed, what one could put in his or her own body! I mean anyone with any sense of basic psychology knows the surest way to get an adolescent to do something is to strictly forbid it–i.e. “whatever you do, do NOT open this door!”  First time the parents gone, what’s gonna happen?  Also, since most of the anti-drug propaganda isn’t aimed at truly dangerous, or potentially dangerous drugs, but at marijuana, one of the mildest drugs known to man…So, in addiction to the rebellion aspect, you also have the fact that, when the individual ends up trying pot, and doesn’t go insane or murder anyone, or run down the nearest heroin dealer…instead experiencing a plesant, slightly sexually stimulating, sound enhancing high (unless they’ve over did it, in which they may experience, as some people are prone to, a bit of anxiety). So now, if they had a pleasant trip, they realize that they’ve been lied to, and will now be alot less likely to believe the jointly discredited parents and Govt…. And, although I believe marijuana should be legal, and is a gift from God (or nature), I don’t think anyone under the age of 21 should be using it. The thing the prohibitionists don’t seem to truly get is that it’s easier for a minor to get crack than it is to get a pack of cigarettes—because drug dealers don’t card. In fact, after examining all the evidence–including the fact that, as a country, we are losing enormous amounts of money on the Drug War (about 50 billion a year, after subtracting all the forfeitures and such)….And many people in our Govt.–as well as leaders around the world in other countries–are finally starting to see the light, not only about the harm caused by the War on Drugs (and our citizens) but also about the harmlessness of marijuana, compared to the risks associated with alcohol…So the only logical explanation is that, despite losing money as a country, there must be a small group of very wealthy and influential people (a kind of illuminati group) that is making a killing from this War..and they have no desire to win it, just to perpetuate it indefintely. And it seems they will go to any lengths to make sure  this happens. And I am NOT a conspiracy nut…but as someone very smart once said, though I can’t recall their his or her name, once you have eliminated all the other theories, whatever remains, no matter how improbable, is the truth. That’s why they spend so much time targeting marijuana, instead of the truly dangerous drugs–because most pot smokers are really just average, working, tax paying, and VOTING individuals, with all kinds of things they can confiscate under those insane forfeiture laws. They really don’t care that much about heroin or crack addicts…they have nothing to take, generally don’t vote, and with the combination of their addiction and prohibition continually driving prices higher, will probably end up dead anyway.
Sorry…I guess I wandered off topic a bit. But my point was, people resent being MADE to do anything….Just like other countries resent the U.S. acting like the Big Brother of the world, and sticking its nose into everyone’s business! And they wonder why we’re targeted by terrorists (NOT saying that the terrorists are right…but despite the fact that they’re going about it in a Godless, immoral way, I can understand some of their anger…The US says ‘we can have all the bombs we want, because we’re responsible (yeah, responsible for bombing the shit out of anyone who offends them), but you can’t! We can do this, but you can’t…etc, etc, etc.)
People hate this, and I especially abhor it. Thank God that he can’t compel everyone into encounter therapy! Although he might find a few encounters turned around on him! lol!
“COMPEL: (as defined by the Oxford Modern English Dictionary)
“force, constrain. Bring about an action by force (submission).
Wish you the best, Tiger!……..Sincerely, Alan.

From:  “Tiger Lisa” <tigerlisa@gmail.com>
Reply-To:  ibogaine@mindvox.com
To:  ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject:  RE: [Ibogaine] Opiates
Date:  Sat, 1 Apr 2006 07:44:15 -0500

Dear Nick,

Here’ the part I don’t understand.

You wrote,

Personally, my position is…I think rising

awareness is GOOD. I would love to see more people in groups, going through

their stuff, becoming more aware of their personal interior dynamic, and

moving forward in life. But, sadly, I’m not in a position to compel people to do

this.

Why would you ever want to COMPEL anyone to do ANYTHING?

Do you really believe that would be useful, effective, helpful? Do you

think people actually benefit from, and grow from, being FORCED to do

anything?

That is a parent-child model of interaction (and not a particularly

skillful one, IMO), and it’s going to reinforce childlike, rebellious

and victim behavior (NOT self-awareness!) in the one so compelled, as

well as reinforcing bullying behavior and disprespectful and righteous

attitudes (NOT increased compassion or awareness) in the one doing the

compelling. A “lose-lose” interaction–no one wins!

Myself, I believe CHOICE is the name of the game. With choice comes

responsibility, self-responsibility and a loss of the victim

consciousness that drives continued reactive and unconscious behavior.

So in a nutshell: Saying something (like awarenss) is GOOD is one

thing, but it’s a far cry from that to say,”And I’d love to FORCE you

all to be more aware! too bad I can’t!” I think that is the essence of

what  *I* am having a problem with. Yes, awareness is good. I

agree. Yes, I’d love to live in a more aware society, umm hmm. Then I

read the next sentence and I’m brought up short.

We all need love, acceptance, compassion. Compassion is one of the most

healing things going! Power and control, on the other hand, just get

people’s backs up, thrust them into dysfunctional modes of thinking and

perpetuate a lack of awareness all around.

Just my two cents,

Tiger

PS I bet if you took a shot of heroin, you would experience bliss! (not

that I’m suggesting you do) I believe it is just how human beings are

wired. We’ve all got the same neurotransmitters, more or less.

———- Forwarded message ———-
From: “Nick Sandberg” <
nick227@tiscali.co.uk>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Date: Sat, 1 Apr 2006 11:00:01 +0100
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Opiates

Hi
Alan,

 

I’m
not so much of an expert on psychopharmacology, so am happy whatever you

believe, as I don’t have the background to contest it. What I know is that

opiates are narcotic analgesics, they stop you feeling. This is basically what

they do, they reinforce the body’s own repression system. From that, I don’t

think it’s unreasonable to suggest that, if someone is struggling to hold down

excess feelings, they will experience high levels of daily anxiety. If they take

a drug which helps to push all the feelings back into unconsciousness, an

analgesic like heroin for example, then it will feel blissful. The anxiety

is gone for a while and it feels great. This seems pretty reasonable to

me.

 

I
also know what I see…and that is, time and time again, opiate users have

a lot of feelings held down within and a strong orientation not to feel them,

whether it be to look for some kind of “get out clause” in the mind or

just getting the fuck out of there. Anything they can do to separate

themselves from the situation, to put distance, whether mentally or physically.

However, this statement is also a little bit unfair,

because…

 

….as
Peter Cohen and others have pointed out, the issue is really more societal. OK,

so opiate users are resistant to feeling too much, so what? A big chunk of the

population is the same, never uses opiates, but have other defence mechanisms

(as psychologists term them) to keep excess feelings at bay. Stuck in a group

room situation with a therapist, they would be equally likely to resist using

every device they could think of. The difference is…our society pushes drug

users to therapy and change far more so than the rest of the population. All

sorts of people have incredibly fucked up lives, without touching drugs, yet

never get any social pressure to change (of course some also

do). Illicit drug users are far more likely to find themselves confronted

with the cops, or sitting in a circle with other drug users saying things like

“My name is Mike, and I use heroin.”

 

Personally, my position is…I think rising
awareness is GOOD. I would love to see more people in groups, going through

their stuff, becoming more aware of their personal interior dynamic, and

moving forward in life. But, sadly, I’m not in a position to compel people to do

this. So, mostly, it’s only people who already have the awareness to see they’re

not happy with their lives that come. Plus people who’ve been socially pressured

to do so by the way our society is orientated – mostly drug addicts and

alcoholics. I mean, it’s patently not fair, which is what the Peter Cohen camp

seeks to address. But, personally, I think anyone moving into a higher state of

awareness of themselves is cool.

 

Nick

Play Trivia with MSN Messenger for a chance to win an XBOX™ 360 prize pack!  /]=———————————————————————=[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%] \]=———————————————————————=[/

From: Henk van Vliet <knehnav@xs4all.nl>
Subject: [Ibogaine] plants?
Date: April 1, 2006 at 10:11:15 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

off topic, but since we are into psychedelic plants:  http://www.futurehi.net/archives/000793.html.
Or did I post this before?

Henk

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: “Alan Hehe” <a.h.veil68@hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] from methadone list – Herman Joseph on stigma and methadone
Date: March 31, 2006 at 3:36:47 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

 

From:  Crooked Eye <iboganaut420@yahoo.com>
Reply-To:  ibogaine@mindvox.com
To:  ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject:  RE: [Ibogaine] from methadone list – Herman Joseph on stigma and methadone
Date:  Fri, 31 Mar 2006 07:22:59 -0800 (PST)

How’s this for abusive, you bunch of bickering ninnies?!?!?!

Nick Sandberg <nick227@tiscali.co.uk> wrote:

—–Original Message—–
From: Alan Hehe    [mailto:a.h.veil68@hotmail.com]
Sent: 30 March 2006    23:56
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine]    from methadone list – Herman Joseph on stigma and    methadone

Hey,

Nick–How can you say on one hand that addicts are no different from anyone else, yet at the same time say that the only reason opiates give pleasure is because the users have repressed emotional issues? It’s true that not everyone enjoys opiates, but this has alot more to do with brain chemistry, and a personal prefernce over stimulant type drugs, as opposed to ‘downer’ type substances, I believe, than with any repressed emotions…it may also have to do with the demonized image most people have of opiates. Almost everyone who takes opiates experiences  some euphoria (if they are taking a sufficient amount…no, taking a single tylenol 3 might not cause any pleasure), so I guess everyone must have repressed emotional issues. Are you a psychiatrist or M.D.? And if opiates only cause bliss in emotionally repressed individuals, why are there receptor sites in the brain that, when activated, cause strong pleasure/ reward reactions within the chemistry of the brain? And I don’t think my question, ” how does abusive language affect the ‘reptilian’ brain, which is far older than the part of the brain that processes language”, was answered with,”It attracts attention”. And although I agree that becoming addicted to an opiate is not a good thing, I hope you limit your judgement of “somebody you care about doing shit you don’t think is good for them” to only hard drug use…do you feel the same about marijuana?
Also, I don’t need you to tell me that opiates are an analgesic, thank you–and they do not “stop feeling”–they merely mask it. And as far as emotions go, it brings tears to my eyes to see starving children just the same as it did before I ever used opiates…Yes, it does perhaps lessen emotional impact, but it does not stop it.
Finally, I will admit that, in some cases this controversial approach of yours may help some people who are in extreme denial…But there are many other addicts that ended up hooked on opiates due to chronic pain, and these drugs are a blessing to them, despite the addiction. They still feel some euphoria (at least the ones I’ve talked to personally). Does that mean that the only reason they feel this is because of repressed emotions? Like I said, your therapy may help a select few, but for most I feel it would be detrimental. Furthermore, the worse problems most addicts face stems from its demonization and prohibition!  And while not having ever been an addict may not hinder your understanding of humans in general, when it comes to addicts, yes, I firmly believe that the only people who have the slightest idea of what it’s like –either the bliss of use, or the hell of withdrawal–are those who have gone thru it…It’s like trying to explain what sex feels like to a 2nd grader..although that’s not the greatest analogy, I can’t think of a better one right now. But I guarantee that, were you to go thru the experience yourself, you would definitely alter some of your views. And just as a test, why not try taking about 25 milligrams of morphine, just to see how emotionally repressed YOU are….Just kidding..I would never advocate drug use to someone. You know, the body, when injured, produces its own version of opiates to help combat pain..If your theory is true, then why doesn’t the body release this chemical during emotional duress?  Opiates cause ‘bliss’ because they activate the pleasure/reward center of the brain. Do some research……………………A.

Hey Alan,

I believe that if you see someone you care about    doing shit you don’t think is good for them then you should call them on it,    yes. Is this what you mean?

And how, pray tell, is    abusive language going to make a difference on the “supposed” reptilian brain,    since that part of the brain –the reptilian part–is much
older than the part    that deals with language.

It attracts attention.

I wonder if you’re not just    trying to stir up controversy. And why don’t you answer Preston’s question as    to whether you’ve ever been an addict, or experienced  withdrawal,    or–especially–the stigma that comes with using or abusing any drugs–and in    the minds of many, there is no difference.

I’m not a drug addict and I never have been. I work    as a therapist assisting with Humaniversity therapy groups here at the Leela    Centre where I live and in Holland at the Humaniversity. Leela is not a TC,    does not primarily deal with addiction issues, Humaniversity is. This is my    experiential background. However, if you care to actually read what I am    saying, as opposed to simply reacting, you will see that this has little to do    with anything of it.

If you do not like what I write, then why not simply    say so? You want to engage in discussion, then you imply that somehow,    because I’m not an addict, I don’t know anything about the human condition as    it is for addicts. That’s just bollocks. Addicts are no different from anybody    else. But suddenly this is the moment for them
to be    “different”, when the pressure is on a little suddenly it’s “I don’t    have to listen to you because you’re not ‘like me.'” I mean, shit, did you    ever hear such a manipulative load of old bollocks in your life? I’d be    embarrassed to come out with that crap.

I do not see addicts as addicts    first but as people first, with addiction issues.

Well, there certainly is, I    can tell you that. Through-out my life I’ve experimented with many drugs, for
varying lengths of time…and always, I would eventually tire of whatever    chemical I was using (with the exception of marijuana, which I view as a    medicine and sacrament..although even my use of this has been prevented by the    worms who have nothing better to do than tell others what THEY can and cannot    do) and leave it behind. The same would be true of my use of opiates, were it    not for my inability to withstand the withdrawal…and let me tell you, NO ONE    CAN POSSIBLY UNDERSTAND EITHER THE BLISS OF POWERFUL OPIATES, OR THE HELL    WITHDRAWALING FROM THEM!.  Personally, I’m tired of this whole subject;    if you truly are an addict, I’m sure you can find someone to abuse you night    and day with offensive language. Let me know when it starts to work. I don’t    mean to be rude, but addicts–a term that I hate–go thru enough abuse without    any extra. Peace!

Opiates I don’t take and have only taken a little in    my life. Opiate is an analgesic, it stops you feeling. If you experience bliss    from an analgesic it is because your body is struggling to hold down a lot of    feelings your ego has decided it doesn’t want to have. I don’t see another    reason for it, happy to hear one if you have it. And I’m not just being a    judgmental mf. It can happen to anyone. If your ego orientation is strongly    away from feeling, you want to look cool, but you actually have a lot of    feelings then opiates will give bliss for sure. Some people need opiates just    to keep feelings down enough to function. It’s common.

Nick
 

 

 

From:  “Preston Peet”      <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Reply-To:  ibogaine@mindvox.com
To:  <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Subject:  Re:      [Ibogaine] from methadone list – Herman Joseph on stigma and      methadone
Date:  Thu, 30 Mar 2006 13:36:13      -0500
>>I’m saying there is a place for abusive language in the      therapeutic
>>process.<
>
>LOL, somehow I’m having      a LOT of trouble equating “abusive” and
>”therapeutic” in any process      whatsoever Nick.
>You

never actually answered my question- have you      ever been a
>”fucking junkie” Nick, or are you merely projecting your      own ideas
>about what serves “junkies” best and what is most      “therapeutic” for
>”junkies”?
>Peace and      love.
>—–
>”If God dropped acid, would he see      people?”  ~Steven Wright
>
>Peace and      love.
>Preston
>ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
>Editor      Underground
>Editor Under the Influence
>Editor      http://www.drugwar.com
>Cont. HighTimes mag/.com
>Cont. Editor      http://www.disinfo.com
>Columnist New York      Waste
>Etc.
>
>—– Original Message —– From: Nick      Sandberg
>To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
>Sent: Thursday, March 30,      2006 8:20 AM
>Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] from methadone list – Herman      Joseph on
>stigma and methadone
>
>
>Hey

Alberto,
>
>It is not so much about creating offense, more about      being real. NLP
>is fine and has its place. Likewise encounter      therapy. With the
>latter you can use more abusive language if it      expresses what you
>feel. I am not suggesting that you should start a      session by saying
>to the client, “Yo fuckwit you’re in a right      fucking state!” I’m
>saying there is a place for abusive language in      the therapeutic
>process. I’m also saying that you have to watch a      little the “poor
>baby” routine with this nice guy approach. It’s the      easiest thing in
>the world to be the addict’s friend. You just don’t      show them the
>place where they don’t want to go and they will love      you forever.
>This is what I see Peter Cohen      doing.
>
>Generally, I support what people like Herman Joseph      and Peter Cohen
>are trying to do. But there is

also the side of this      movement that
>is, to me, a few mindy academics making      pseudo-humanistic
>pronouncements without awareness or experience.      It’s this side of it
>that I also bring up. You cannot so easily      resolve addiction with
>the higher mind, imo. It’s more reptilian      brain stuff. There need to
>be deep rooted changes at this level.      Stuff needs to happen
>experientially – maturation, resolution of      conflict, increased
>awareness of the inner dynamic, redirection of      energy – for most
>this is the case. I don’t make pronouncements for      everybody.
>
>Nick
>
>
>—–Original      Message—–
>From: Alberto Sola      [mailto:plago@hotmail.com]
>Sent: 30 March 2006 02:50
>To:      ibogaine@mindvox.com
>Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] from methadone list –      Herman Joseph on
>stigma and

methadone
>
>
>Hola:
>Medical profesionals, should      treat everybody with respect. The slang
>terms are both offensive and      give no benefit for the patients. Those
>terms are judgemental and      make the patient doctor comunication more
>difficult. On top of that      like all slang the terms are not
>scientifically adecuate. We would      not write them in a medical
>journal. I agree with Howard we have to      promote the right language.
>Slowly will change the attitudes, it’s      called neurolinguistic
>programing.
>Saludos
>Alberto
>
>
>/]=———————————————————————=[\
>[%] Ibogaine List Commands:
>http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]

>\]=———————————————————————=[/
>
>
>
>
>/]=———————————————————————=[\
>[%]      Ibogaine List Commands:
>http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html      [%]
>
>\]=———————————————————————=[/
>
>

 

Find just what    you’re after with the new, more precise MSN Search – try it now!    /]=———————————————————————=[\    [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]    \]=———————————————————————=[/

Talk is cheap. Use Yahoo! Messenger to make PC-to-Phone calls. Great rates starting at 1ข/min.

With MSN Spaces email straight to your blog. Upload jokes, photos and more. It’s free! /]=———————————————————————=[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%] \]=———————————————————————=[/

From: “Mark Corcoran” <mcorcoran27@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine]
Date: April 1, 2006 at 9:54:49 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Our friend is safe and sound and on the other side.  He’ll never take that shit again…

From: “cm” <cm67@optusnet.com.au>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] from methadone list – Herman Joseph on stigma and methadone
Date: Thu, 30 Mar 2006 09:50:09 +1000



Howard,

I am not advocating an inhumane approach. This is not what it is about at all. I am saying that, for me, empowerment of the individual is the core means by which dependence can be broken long-term. And the absolute core of this approach is to adopt the position “I am 100% responsible for everything that happens to me.” It takes time, often a lot of time, and a lot of work is needed before someone can take this position. If a therapist starts from the position that addiction is the result of societal conditioning, I think it greatly weakens the process. That’s my opinion.

Working with people, some with addiction issues, others with different issues, it’s clear to me that treating addiction does have specific angles to it that make it distinct from other conditions. Again and again in addicts I do see this absolutely resolute desire not to self-examine, not to look at their behaviour. A lot of addicts are fucking great people, frankly, imo. But this issue is present, this incredible capacity to avoid. When treatment starts to go more down the pc road, I think you also have to check in that you’re not simply patronizing the whole “poor baby” routine. It is a very easy thing to be popular with addicts, the easiest thing in the world, actually. You just adopt a position that enables them to continue avoiding. It is easy to take a humane approach. What’s tougher is to stand up and say it like it is.

Nick
hi nick,

since starting to reduce from methadone ive gone back to a brilliant counsellor that i saw a few years ago for other problems.
she tells me time and again im lucky because one of the skills i have is to step out of myself and self analyse. just thought id
let you know that not all addicts are scared of holding a mirror up to see whats going on.

chi

Play Trivia with MSN Messenger for a chance to win an XBOX™ 360 prize pack!  /]=———————————————————————=[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%] \]=———————————————————————=[/

From: “Alan Hehe” <a.h.veil68@hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Opiate effects
Date: April 1, 2006 at 8:39:17 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hey Nick…
Although I agree with you that opiates do have a dampening effect on strong emotions, but I don’t see all that much agreement between what you originally said, and what this medical text explains..This is what you wrote:If you experience bliss    from an analgesic it is because your body is struggling to hold down a lot of    feelings your ego has decided it doesn’t want to have. I don’t see another    reason for it, happy to hear one if you have it.
Now, where in the medical text does it say anything about emotional repression being the cause–and the only cause, you seem to believe, since you asked for another reason, which I have given you–for euphoria from opiates? Opiates block physical pain; because of the euphoria, strong emotions may seem a little less intense..just like when you’re in good shape and healthy, as opposed to the opposite. Anyone who takes a strong opiate, like morphine, is going to experience a general feeling of well-being, if not outright euphoria, regardless of their emotional well-being. Your agreement with the medical “answer” seems to be in direct contradiction to the statement you made above, which I copied and pasted from your own e-mail. I do apologize if you receive more than one of these type letters…for some reason, the Ibogaine Newsletter sent me another “welcome to” message last night, despite the fact that I was already subscribed, and have been for some time…it also seemed like my posts just weren’t going through, but perhaps they were, just at the speed of dripping sap.
I do agree that your confrontational method could benefit some people, but I think that number would be small. I also believe that, as far as permanently giving up the use or abuse of any drug cannot be brought about by any amount of talking, whether it be your form, or some more gentle approach, 12 steps, whatever. The only thing that going to stop an addict from using is first a decision deep within themselves that they are utterly sick of the shit..unfortunately, many people have to bottom out over and over before they ever reach this point. And others simply never reach it. The second thing the addict needs is Ibogaine, if it truly works–for this will alleviate the unspeakable horrors of withdrawal AND bring them into confrontation with their emotional selves in a way that confrontational therapy never could. I do agree that an addict–esp. one that has recently kicked, is going to have emotional issues–because suddenly the rose-colored glasses will be gone, and the world will be seen and felt in all its intensity, good and bad. That’s the point when they need gentle guidance.
Well…I don’t think we’ll ever be great friends, but I want you to know that I am not just reacting–I have thought about your theraputic approach, and will concede that it may help those in extreme denial…but for people like me, who are quite aware of their situation, and desperately want out, all it would be is deeply offensive. I would never submit to such a thing, and if it were tried without my consent, then the therapist may find himself in a Jiu-Jitsu arm bar, if not a more traditional punch in the face. But back to the point I had set out to make: I don’t write these because I am seeking to be your enemy, or a thorn in your side. In fact, now that I’ve said my piece, and given you your “any other reason than emotional repression for opiates causing bliss” you won’t hear much from me directed at you. Because although I may disagree, I am reserving complete judgement….And everyone has a right to his or her opinions and right to speak them.
Sincerely, Alan.

From: “Nick Sandberg” <nick227@tiscali.co.uk>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Opiate effects
Date: Sat, 1 Apr 2006 13:19:16 +0100

—–Original Message—–
From: Alan Hehe [mailto:a.h.veil68@hotmail.com]
Sent: 31 March 2006 22:50
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] Opiate effects

Hey Nick,

I wanted to say that, although I was basically right, I believe (and according to the research I’ve done) about the reason opiates cause pleasure, I wasn’t entirely correct about the natural opiates (dopamine,etc) having an effect on mood. They do have an affect on mood..but then again, so does euphoria..in fact, it could be said to be a mood unto itself. Here’s a little medical info for:
Hi Alan,
Thank you for researching more.
Opiates (heroin, morphine, etc.)
The human body naturally produces its own opiate-like substances and uses them as neurotransmitters. These substances include endorphins, enkephalins, and dynorphin, often collectively known as endogenous opioids.
Endogenous opioids modulate our reactions to painful stimuli.
Yes, this is what I understand too. They mediate the repression of feeling. They are the natural means by which we push feelings back into unconsciousness – feelings of pain, or simply feelings we don’t want to have.
They also regulate vital functions such as hunger and thirst and are involved in mood control, immune response, and other processes. 

The reason that opiates such as heroin and morphine affect us so powerfully is that these exogenous substances bind to the same receptors as our endogenous opioids.
Yes, they back up the body’s own system for repressing feeling. If someone is so overloaded with pain or other feelings that they cannot cope then exogenous opioids are good.
There are three kinds of receptors widely distributed throughout the brain: mu, delta, and kappa receptors.
These receptors, through second messengers, influence the likelihood that ion channels will open, which in certain cases reduces the excitability of neurons. This reduced excitability is the likely source of the euphoric effect of opiates and appears to be mediated by the mu and delta receptors. 

This euphoric effect also appears to involve another mechanism in which the GABA-inhibitory interneurons of the ventral tegmental area come into play. By attaching to their mu receptors, exogenous opioids reduce the amount of GABA released (see animation). Normally, GABA reduces the amount of dopamine released in the nucleus accumbens. By inhibiting this inhibitor, the opiates ultimately increase the amount of dopamine produced and the amount of pleasure felt.
Yes, we agree, it seems! If there is inadequate endogenous opiate present to repress feeling then anxiety results. If there is adequate or it’s backed up with exogenous opiate then life seems more blissful.
Chronic consumption of opiates inhibits the production of cAMP, but this inhibition is offset in the long run by other cAMP production mechanisms. When no opiates are available, this increased cAMP production capacity comes to the fore and results in neural hyperactivity and the sensation of craving the drug.
Yes, and whatever the cause, one solution is to open the body emotionally. If someone can simply BE with more feeling, then they have less need for exogenous substances. And this is what I’m saying, baby. If you can diminish the psychological causes of anxiety, ie through encounter therapy or whatever, people no longer need the drugs to be high.

Nick

Play Trivia with MSN Messenger for a chance to win an XBOX™ 360 prize pack!  /]=———————————————————————=[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%] \]=———————————————————————=[/

From: “cm” <cm67@optusnet.com.au>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] from methadone list – Herman Joseph on stigma and methadone
Date: March 29, 2006 at 6:50:09 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Howard,

I am not advocating an inhumane approach. This is not what it is about at all. I am saying that, for me, empowerment of the individual is the core means by which dependence can be broken long-term. And the absolute core of this approach is to adopt the position “I am 100% responsible for everything that happens to me.” It takes time, often a lot of time, and a lot of work is needed before someone can take this position. If a therapist starts from the position that addiction is the result of societal conditioning, I think it greatly weakens the process. That’s my opinion.

Working with people, some with addiction issues, others with different issues, it’s clear to me that treating addiction does have specific angles to it that make it distinct from other conditions. Again and again in addicts I do see this absolutely resolute desire not to self-examine, not to look at their behaviour. A lot of addicts are fucking great people, frankly, imo. But this issue is present, this incredible capacity to avoid. When treatment starts to go more down the pc road, I think you also have to check in that you’re not simply patronizing the whole “poor baby” routine. It is a very easy thing to be popular with addicts, the easiest thing in the world, actually. You just adopt a position that enables them to continue avoiding. It is easy to take a humane approach. What’s tougher is to stand up and say it like it is.

Nick
hi nick,

since starting to reduce from methadone ive gone back to a brilliant counsellor that i saw a few years ago for other problems.
she tells me time and again im lucky because one of the skills i have is to step out of myself and self analyse. just thought id
let you know that not all addicts are scared of holding a mirror up to see whats going on.

chi

From: “Tiger Lisa” <tigerlisa@gmail.com>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Opiates
Date: April 1, 2006 at 7:44:15 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Dear Nick,
Here’ the part I don’t understand.

You wrote,
Personally, my position is…I think rising awareness is GOOD. I would love to see more people in groups, going through their stuff, becoming more aware of their personal interior dynamic, and moving forward in life. But, sadly, I’m not in a position to compel people to do this.

Why would you ever want to COMPEL anyone to do ANYTHING? Do you really believe that would be useful, effective, helpful? Do you think people actually benefit from, and grow from, being FORCED to do anything?

That is a parent-child model of interaction (and not a particularly skillful one, IMO), and it’s going to reinforce childlike, rebellious and victim behavior (NOT self-awareness!) in the one so compelled, as well as reinforcing bullying behavior and disprespectful and righteous attitudes (NOT increased compassion or awareness) in the one doing the compelling. A “lose-lose” interaction–no one wins!

Myself, I believe CHOICE is the name of the game. With choice comes responsibility, self-responsibility and a loss of the victim consciousness that drives continued reactive and unconscious behavior.

So in a nutshell: Saying something (like awarenss) is GOOD is one thing, but it’s a far cry from that to say,”And I’d love to FORCE you all to be more aware! too bad I can’t!” I think that is the essence of what  *I* am having a problem with. Yes, awareness is good. I agree. Yes, I’d love to live in a more aware society, umm hmm. Then I read the next sentence and I’m brought up short.

We all need love, acceptance, compassion. Compassion is one of the most healing things going! Power and control, on the other hand, just get people’s backs up, thrust them into dysfunctional modes of thinking and perpetuate a lack of awareness all around.

Just my two cents,
Tiger

PS I bet if you took a shot of heroin, you would experience bliss! (not that I’m suggesting you do) I believe it is just how human beings are wired. We’ve all got the same neurotransmitters, more or less.

———- Forwarded message ———-
From: “Nick Sandberg” < nick227@tiscali.co.uk>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Date: Sat, 1 Apr 2006 11:00:01 +0100
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Opiates
Hi Alan,

I’m not so much of an expert on psychopharmacology, so am happy whatever you believe, as I don’t have the background to contest it. What I know is that opiates are narcotic analgesics, they stop you feeling. This is basically what they do, they reinforce the body’s own repression system. From that, I don’t think it’s unreasonable to suggest that, if someone is struggling to hold down excess feelings, they will experience high levels of daily anxiety. If they take a drug which helps to push all the feelings back into unconsciousness, an analgesic like heroin for example, then it will feel blissful. The anxiety is gone for a while and it feels great. This seems pretty reasonable to me.

I also know what I see…and that is, time and time again, opiate users have a lot of feelings held down within and a strong orientation not to feel them, whether it be to look for some kind of “get out clause” in the mind or just getting the fuck out of there. Anything they can do to separate themselves from the situation, to put distance, whether mentally or physically. However, this statement is also a little bit unfair, because…

….as Peter Cohen and others have pointed out, the issue is really more societal. OK, so opiate users are resistant to feeling too much, so what? A big chunk of the population is the same, never uses opiates, but have other defence mechanisms (as psychologists term them) to keep excess feelings at bay. Stuck in a group room situation with a therapist, they would be equally likely to resist using every device they could think of. The difference is…our society pushes drug users to therapy and change far more so than the rest of the population. All sorts of people have incredibly fucked up lives, without touching drugs, yet never get any social pressure to change (of course some also do). Illicit drug users are far more likely to find themselves confronted with the cops, or sitting in a circle with other drug users saying things like “My name is Mike, and I use heroin.”

Personally, my position is…I think rising awareness is GOOD. I would love to see more people in groups, going through their stuff, becoming more aware of their personal interior dynamic, and moving forward in life. But, sadly, I’m not in a position to compel people to do this. So, mostly, it’s only people who already have the awareness to see they’re not happy with their lives that come. Plus people who’ve been socially pressured to do so by the way our society is orientated – mostly drug addicts and alcoholics. I mean, it’s patently not fair, which is what the Peter Cohen camp seeks to address. But, personally, I think anyone moving into a higher state of awareness of themselves is cool.

Nick

From: “Nick Sandberg” <nick227@tiscali.co.uk>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Opiate effects
Date: April 1, 2006 at 7:19:16 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

—–Original Message—–
From: Alan Hehe [mailto:a.h.veil68@hotmail.com]
Sent: 31 March 2006 22:50
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] Opiate effects

Hey Nick,

I wanted to say that, although I was basically right, I believe (and according to the research I’ve done) about the reason opiates cause pleasure, I wasn’t entirely correct about the natural opiates (dopamine,etc) having an effect on mood. They do have an affect on mood..but then again, so does euphoria..in fact, it could be said to be a mood unto itself. Here’s a little medical info for:
Hi Alan,
Thank you for researching more.
Opiates (heroin, morphine, etc.)
The human body naturally produces its own opiate-like substances and uses them as neurotransmitters. These substances include endorphins, enkephalins, and dynorphin, often collectively known as endogenous opioids.
Endogenous opioids modulate our reactions to painful stimuli.
Yes, this is what I understand too. They mediate the repression of feeling. They are the natural means by which we push feelings back into unconsciousness – feelings of pain, or simply feelings we don’t want to have.
They also regulate vital functions such as hunger and thirst and are involved in mood control, immune response, and other processes. 

The reason that opiates such as heroin and morphine affect us so powerfully is that these exogenous substances bind to the same receptors as our endogenous opioids.
Yes, they back up the body’s own system for repressing feeling. If someone is so overloaded with pain or other feelings that they cannot cope then exogenous opioids are good.
There are three kinds of receptors widely distributed throughout the brain: mu, delta, and kappa receptors.
These receptors, through second messengers, influence the likelihood that ion channels will open, which in certain cases reduces the excitability of neurons. This reduced excitability is the likely source of the euphoric effect of opiates and appears to be mediated by the mu and delta receptors. 

This euphoric effect also appears to involve another mechanism in which the GABA-inhibitory interneurons of the ventral tegmental area come into play. By attaching to their mu receptors, exogenous opioids reduce the amount of GABA released (see animation). Normally, GABA reduces the amount of dopamine released in the nucleus accumbens. By inhibiting this inhibitor, the opiates ultimately increase the amount of dopamine produced and the amount of pleasure felt.
Yes, we agree, it seems! If there is inadequate endogenous opiate present to repress feeling then anxiety results. If there is adequate or it’s backed up with exogenous opiate then life seems more blissful.
Chronic consumption of opiates inhibits the production of cAMP, but this inhibition is offset in the long run by other cAMP production mechanisms. When no opiates are available, this increased cAMP production capacity comes to the fore and results in neural hyperactivity and the sensation of craving the drug.
Yes, and whatever the cause, one solution is to open the body emotionally. If someone can simply BE with more feeling, then they have less need for exogenous substances. And this is what I’m saying, baby. If you can diminish the psychological causes of anxiety, ie through encounter therapy or whatever, people no longer need the drugs to be high.

Nick

From: “Nick Sandberg” <nick227@tiscali.co.uk>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] from methadone list – Herman Joseph on stigma and methadone
Date: April 1, 2006 at 5:14:00 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

—–Original Message—–
From: Preston Peet [mailto:ptpeet@nyc.rr.com]
Sent: 31 March 2006 21:27
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] from methadone list – Herman Joseph on stigma
and methadone

Addicts are no different from anybody else. But suddenly this is
the moment
for them to be “different”, when the pressure is on a little
suddenly it’s
“I don’t have to listen to you because you’re not ‘like me.'” I
mean, shit,
did you ever hear such a manipulative load of old bollocks in your life?
I’d be embarrassed to come out with that crap.<

Why is it non-addicts seem to so often come out with this total
canard “oh,
that darned druggie/junkie is being manipulative”? Talk about
complete and
utter bullshit, particularly in this case.

Hi Preston,

Well, if you change the way you identify yourself according to what’s going
on for you, by being an “addict” one moment and a “human being” the next,
which you do seem to do quite often, then I think it’s inevitable you get
labelled manipulative. I mean, we have discussions about stuff, person to
person, then suddenly it like the shutters come down and you’re an “addict”
and I’m not. I feel a bit excluded by you really.

I don’t pretend to know how you feel. No one else does. I also don’t pretend
to be able to identify with you as this “addict” for that is not my
background. However, we are both people. There are vast amounts of things
which we have in common, from the DNA upward.

Hasn’t a single thing to do with the question. It appears to me that you
don’t know much about, much less about dealing with “the human condition”
period, hence your willingly locking yourself into a tc; using
“abusive” and
“theraputic” in the same sentence as though they fit together;

Well, they can be used in the same sentence. There are plenty of therapeutic
techniques which involve the release of feelings vocally. People generally
swear quite a lot in them, as a rule.

“yelling at
others is healing for me” (what a selfish outlook on life it seems to me).
Sigh.

I wouldn’t advocate just yelling at people mindlessly. But, if you create a
group room situation where people are simultaneously yelling back at you and
it’s safe, then this is very healing, because people do tend to hold back a
lot of anger in life and this fucks them up, first emotionally and then
physically.

Nick

—–
“If God dropped acid, would he see people?”  ~Steven Wright

Peace and love.
Preston
ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor Underground
Editor Under the Influence
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Cont. HighTimes mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —–
From: Nick Sandberg
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Friday, March 31, 2006 8:42 AM
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] from methadone list – Herman Joseph on stigma and
methadone

—–Original Message—–
From: Alan Hehe [mailto:a.h.veil68@hotmail.com]
Sent: 30 March 2006 23:56
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] from methadone list – Herman Joseph on stigma and
methadone

Hey everyone. Nick, what is your deal? I bet you subscribe to
that whole
“tough love” theory too, eh?
Hey Alan,
I believe that if you see someone you care about doing shit you
don’t think
is good for them then you should call them on it, yes. Is this what you
mean?
And how, pray tell, is abusive language going to make a
difference on the
“supposed” reptilian brain, since that part of the brain –the reptilian
part–is much older than the part that deals with language.
It attracts attention.
I wonder if you’re not just trying to stir up controversy. And
why don’t
you answer Preston’s question as to whether you’ve ever been an
addict, or
experienced  withdrawal, or–especially–the stigma that comes
with using or
abusing any drugs–and in the minds of many, there is no difference.
I’m not a drug addict and I never have been. I work as a
therapist assisting
with Humaniversity therapy groups here at the Leela Centre where
I live and
in Holland at the Humaniversity. Leela is not a TC, does not
primarily deal
with addiction issues, Humaniversity is. This is my experiential
background.
However, if you care to actually read what I am saying, as
opposed to simply
reacting, you will see that this has little to do with anything of it.
If you do not like what I write, then why not simply say so? You want to
engage in discussion, then you imply that somehow, because I’m not an
addict, I don’t know anything about the human condition as it is for
addicts. That’s just bollocks. Addicts are no different from
anybody else.
But suddenly this is the moment for them to be “different”, when the
pressure is on a little suddenly it’s “I don’t have to listen to
you because
you’re not ‘like me.'” I mean, shit, did you ever hear such a
manipulative
load of old bollocks in your life? I’d be embarrassed to come out
with that
crap.
I do not see addicts as addicts first but as people first, with addiction
issues.

Well, there certainly is, I can tell you that. Through-out my life I’ve
experimented with many drugs, for varying lengths of time…and always, I
would eventually tire of whatever chemical I was using (with the
exception
of marijuana, which I view as a medicine and sacrament..although
even my use
of this has been prevented by the worms who have nothing better
to do than
tell others what THEY can and cannot do) and leave it behind. The
same would
be true of my use of opiates, were it not for my inability to
withstand the
withdrawal…and let me tell you, NO ONE CAN POSSIBLY UNDERSTAND
EITHER THE
BLISS OF POWERFUL OPIATES, OR THE HELL WITHDRAWALING FROM THEM!.
Personally, I’m tired of this whole subject; if you truly are an
addict, I’m
sure you can find someone to abuse you night and day with offensive
language. Let me know when it starts to work. I don’t mean to be
rude, but
addicts–a term that I hate–go thru enough abuse without any
extra. Peace!
Opiates I don’t take and have only taken a little in my life.
Opiate is an
analgesic, it stops you feeling. If you experience bliss from an
analgesic
it is because your body is struggling to hold down a lot of feelings your
ego has decided it doesn’t want to have. I don’t see another
reason for it,
happy to hear one if you have it. And I’m not just being a
judgmental mf. It
can happen to anyone. If your ego orientation is strongly away
from feeling,
you want to look cool, but you actually have a lot of feelings
then opiates
will give bliss for sure. Some people need opiates just to keep feelings
down enough to function. It’s common.
Nick

From:  “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Reply-To:  ibogaine@mindvox.com
To:  <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Subject:  Re: [Ibogaine] from methadone list – Herman Joseph on
stigma and
methadone
Date:  Thu, 30 Mar 2006 13:36:13 -0500
I’m saying there is a place for abusive language in the therapeutic
process.<

LOL, somehow I’m having a LOT of trouble equating “abusive” and
“therapeutic” in any process whatsoever Nick.
You never actually answered my question- have you ever been a
“fucking junkie” Nick, or are you merely projecting your own ideas
about what serves “junkies” best and what is most “therapeutic” for
“junkies”?
Peace and love.
—–
“If God dropped acid, would he see people?”  ~Steven Wright

Peace and love.
Preston
ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor Underground
Editor Under the Influence
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Cont. HighTimes mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —– From: Nick Sandberg
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Thursday, March 30, 2006 8:20 AM
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] from methadone list – Herman Joseph on
stigma and methadone

Hey Alberto,

It is not so much about creating offense, more about being real. NLP
is fine and has its place. Likewise encounter therapy. With the
latter you can use more abusive language if it expresses what you
feel. I am not suggesting that you should start a session by saying
to the client, “Yo fuckwit you’re in a right fucking state!” I’m
saying there is a place for abusive language in the therapeutic
process. I’m also saying that you have to watch a little the “poor
baby” routine with this nice guy approach. It’s the easiest thing in
the world to be the addict’s friend. You just don’t show them the
place where they don’t want to go and they will love you forever.
This is what I see Peter Cohen doing.

Generally, I support what people like Herman Joseph and Peter Cohen
are trying to do. But there is also the side of this movement that
is, to me, a few mindy academics making pseudo-humanistic
pronouncements without awareness or experience. It’s this side of it
that I also bring up. You cannot so easily resolve addiction with
the higher mind, imo. It’s more reptilian brain stuff. There need to
be deep rooted changes at this level. Stuff needs to happen
experientially – maturation, resolution of conflict, increased
awareness of the inner dynamic, redirection of energy – for most
this is the case. I don’t make pronouncements for everybody.

Nick

—–Original Message—–
From: Alberto Sola [mailto:plago@hotmail.com]
Sent: 30 March 2006 02:50
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] from methadone list – Herman Joseph on
stigma and methadone

Hola:
Medical profesionals, should treat everybody with respect. The slang
terms are both offensive and give no benefit for the patients. Those
terms are judgemental and make the patient doctor comunication more
difficult. On top of that like all slang the terms are not
scientifically adecuate. We would not write them in a medical
journal. I agree with Howard we have to promote the right language.
Slowly will change the attitudes, it’s called neurolinguistic
programing.
Saludos
Alberto

/]=————————————————————–
——-=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands:
http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=————————————————————–
——-=[/

/]=————————————————————–
——-=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands:
http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]

\]=————————————————————–
——-=[/

Find just what you’re after with the new, more precise MSN Search
– try it
now!
/]=—————————————————————
——=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html
[%]
\]=—————————————————————
——=[/

/]=—————————————————————
——=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands:
http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]

\]=—————————————————————
——=[/

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: “Nick Sandberg” <nick227@tiscali.co.uk>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Opiates
Date: April 1, 2006 at 5:00:01 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Alan,

I’m not so much of an expert on psychopharmacology, so am happy whatever you believe, as I don’t have the background to contest it. What I know is that opiates are narcotic analgesics, they stop you feeling. This is basically what they do, they reinforce the body’s own repression system. From that, I don’t think it’s unreasonable to suggest that, if someone is struggling to hold down excess feelings, they will experience high levels of daily anxiety. If they take a drug which helps to push all the feelings back into unconsciousness, an analgesic like heroin for example, then it will feel blissful. The anxiety is gone for a while and it feels great. This seems pretty reasonable to me.

I also know what I see…and that is, time and time again, opiate users have a lot of feelings held down within and a strong orientation not to feel them, whether it be to look for some kind of “get out clause” in the mind or just getting the fuck out of there. Anything they can do to separate themselves from the situation, to put distance, whether mentally or physically. However, this statement is also a little bit unfair, because…

….as Peter Cohen and others have pointed out, the issue is really more societal. OK, so opiate users are resistant to feeling too much, so what? A big chunk of the population is the same, never uses opiates, but have other defence mechanisms (as psychologists term them) to keep excess feelings at bay. Stuck in a group room situation with a therapist, they would be equally likely to resist using every device they could think of. The difference is…our society pushes drug users to therapy and change far more so than the rest of the population. All sorts of people have incredibly fucked up lives, without touching drugs, yet never get any social pressure to change (of course some also do). Illicit drug users are far more likely to find themselves confronted with the cops, or sitting in a circle with other drug users saying things like “My name is Mike, and I use heroin.”

Personally, my position is…I think rising awareness is GOOD. I would love to see more people in groups, going through their stuff, becoming more aware of their personal interior dynamic, and moving forward in life. But, sadly, I’m not in a position to compel people to do this. So, mostly, it’s only people who already have the awareness to see they’re not happy with their lives that come. Plus people who’ve been socially pressured to do so by the way our society is orientated – mostly drug addicts and alcoholics. I mean, it’s patently not fair, which is what the Peter Cohen camp seeks to address. But, personally, I think anyone moving into a higher state of awareness of themselves is cool.

Nick

—–Original Message—–
From: Alan Hehe [mailto:a.h.veil68@hotmail.com]
Sent: 01 April 2006 05:09
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] Opiates

Hey Nick,

I’ve been having some strangeness with my ibogaine posts, so just in case you didn’t get my letter–which I don’t have the patience to re-write in its entirety–but here’s the real reason opiates produce pleasure, which has nothing to do with ‘repressed emotions’–although opiates, by causing euphoria, can be said to be mood enhancers. The following is from a medical site, written by an actual Doctor who studies such things:

HOW DRUGS AFFECT NEUROTRANSMITTERS

Dopamine appeared very early in the course of evolution and is involved in many functions that are essential for survival of the organism, such as motricity, attentiveness, motivation, learning, and memorization. But most of all, dopamine is a key element in identifying natural rewards for the organism. These natural stimuli such as food and water cause individuals to engage in approach behaviours. Dopamine is also involved in unconscious memorization of signs associated with these rewards. 

It has now been established that all substances that trigger dependencies in human beings increase the release of a neuromediator, dopamine, in a specific area of the brain: the nucleus accumbens. 

But not all drugs increase dopamine levels in the brain in the same way.
• Some substances imitate natural neuromediators and take their place on their receptors. Morphine, for example, binds to the receptors for endorphin (a natural “morphine” produced by the brain), while nicotine binds to the receptors for acetylcholine.
• Other substances increase the secretion of natural neuromediators. Cocaine, for example, mainly increases the amount of dopamine in the synapses, while ecstasy mainly increases the amount of serotonin.
• Still other substances block a natural neuromediator. Alcohol, for example, blocks the NMDA receptors.
Click on the names of each of the following drugs to read about how they work and what effects they have.
Alcohol —– Opiates (heroin, morphine, etc.) —– Cocaïne —– Nicotine
Caffeine —– Amphetamines —– Cannabis —– Ecstasy —– Benzodiazepines

  • Opiates (heroin, morphine, etc.)
    The human body naturally produces its own opiate-like substances and uses them as neurotransmitters. These substances include endorphins, enkephalins, and dynorphin, often collectively known as endogenous opioids. Endogenous opioids modulate our reactions to painful stimuli. They also regulate vital functions such as hunger and thirst and are involved in mood control, immune response, and other processes. 

The reason that opiates such as heroin and morphine affect us so powerfully is that these exogenous substances bind to the same receptors as our endogenous opioids. There are three kinds of receptors widely distributed throughout the brain: mu, delta, and kappa receptors. 

These receptors, through second messengers, influence the likelihood that ion channels will open, which in certain cases reduces the excitability of neurons. This reduced excitability is the likely source of the euphoric effect of opiates and appears to be mediated by the mu and delta receptors. 

This euphoric effect also appears to involve another mechanism in which the GABA-inhibitory interneurons of the ventral tegmental area come into play. By attaching to their mu receptors, exogenous opioids reduce the amount of GABA released (see animation). Normally, GABA reduces the amount of dopamine released in the nucleus accumbens. By inhibiting this inhibitor, the opiates ultimately increase the amount of dopamine produced and the amount of pleasure felt. 

Chronic consumption of opiates inhibits the production of cAMP, but this inhibition is offset in the long run by other cAMP production mechanisms. When no opiates are available, this increased cAMP production capacity comes to the fore and results in neural hyperactivity and the sensation of craving the drug.
    General links about opiates:

Find just what you’re after with the new, more precise MSN Search – try it now! /]=———————————————————————=[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%] \]=———————————————————————=[/

From: “Nick Sandberg” <nick227@tiscali.co.uk>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] encounter
Date: April 1, 2006 at 5:01:50 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

—–Original Message—–
From: Preston Peet [mailto:ptpeet@nyc.rr.com]
Sent: 31 March 2006 21:39
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] encounter

When I first did it, I was so scared, then afterwards so
liberated I was an
instant convert<

The word “cult” comes leaping to mind.

Hey Preston,

Underneath all this, I can’t help the feeling that you’d actually half-LOVE
to find yourself in an encounter group!

Nick

—–
“If God dropped acid, would he see people?”  ~Steven Wright

Peace and love.
Preston
ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor Underground
Editor Under the Influence
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Cont. HighTimes mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —–
From: Nick Sandberg
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Friday, March 31, 2006 12:18 PM
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] encounter

—–Original Message—–
From: HSLotsof@aol.com [mailto:HSLotsof@aol.com]
Sent: 31 March 2006 17:35
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] from methadone list – Herman Joseph on stigma and
methadone

In a message dated 3/31/06 9:12:06 AM, nick227@tiscali.co.uk writes:

—–Original Message—–
From: HSLotsof@aol.com [mailto:HSLotsof@aol.com]
Sent: 30 March 2006 18:19
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] from methadone list – Herman Joseph on stigma and
methadone

Nick,

It is not a matter of resolving addiction.  It is a matter of
respect,  Yes
brain washing and torture work. There is also the adage, you can attract
more flies with honey than with vinegar. I just think people should be
treated decently and that is more important than whether they are using
drugs or not.  Just to be clear, though you did not say it, I
don’t consider
myself a mindy academic.  I’ve been in the trenches.

Howard

Howard,

I do not regard you as a mindy academic. I also don’t regard you as above
misunderstanding, or getting caught in reaction. I would appreciate it if
you could explain to me just how brain-washing and torture relate to
encounter therapy? I have not stated or inferred that I don’t
think people
should be treated without respect, simply that there are two sides to the
coin, with the positive there also comes the negative – What I like about
you is…..; What I don’t like about you is… This is how it goes, share
both sides. That is what I’m saying. With the whole pc trip, there’s a
danger you start to use only one side. And this doesn’t usually work.

I have to say that it seems to me that even discussing encounter therapy
trips so many people out they are just reacting all over the
place. Perhaps
there is another explanation or I am wrong.

Hi Nick,

In my opinion encounter therapy is brain washing and torture in
that it uses
actions that will cause discomfort and pain in an attempt to change
behavior. While verbal abuse is not the cutting off of a finger it is
painful.  I will acknowledge that there are matters of degree but that
encounter therapy and torture are similar in concept.

Howard

Hi Howard,

The intention of encounter is not to change behaviour but to release
judgments and come closer to people. There maybe behavioural changes as a
result but this is not the focus of the intention. Thus I
couldn’t see it as
brainwashing. Using affirmations or NLP, perhaps, both great therapeutic
techniques, I would agree could be termed “brainwashing” as both
are direct
attempts to change thinking and behaviour.

With encounter you simply sit down and make public, face-to-face,
judgments
you have about people, positive and negative. Usually negative
first, then
emotional release, then positive. When I first did it, I was so
scared, then
afterwards so liberated I was an instant convert. I mean, to no
longer have
to live with a load of mindfucks about what other people might
think about
you, I find it such a freedom. I spent a long time being busy with “what
if…..this” or “what if….that.” Then my mind no longer needed
to bother
with that stuff. I’m not an expert but I couldn’t really see much
residential rehab or TC working without a decent sized element of
encounter.
And for anyone with fears around judging or being judged then
encounter is
really an absolute must.

Nick

/]=—————————————————————
——=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands:
http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]

\]=—————————————————————
——=[/

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: “Sara Glatt” <sara119@xs4all.nl>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Tired & OK Today
Date: April 1, 2006 at 3:10:06 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Ok Bill buy me lunch.

Sara

Callie, I guess I need to really try and spend some time reading more
(all)
posts so as to get to know whats going on ,whos who and where we’er all
from
and stuff.
What I gather so far is that most have come through life this far and
have
decided that they have more to offer this world yet and are now attempting
to make a differance, beginning with whos in the mirror.
Callie So far , well its kinda hard to be humble (My BIGGEST Problem)
well
you have sent a couple of replies to me and they are what has kinda lifted
me up, its weird kinda, but sometimes it just takes a gentle word or 2 or
even just knowing someones listening makes such a differance. At least
with
myself, I have always been rather sensitive.
Now I would (A dream) write a book, but for now Callie and my other Ibo
friends I want to share just a short testimonie about myself. I believe
that
with the properly prepared words from the heart can and does make a
differance.
Well this is my 3rd and most difficult fight I have had or been through
(going through) with drugs.
I am 43years young next month, Married for 13 years-(ya she stuck it out
the
crazy lady) and 2 boys are married off 23 & 25 uh ha, 2 grand kids. And 2
ever soo precious girls at home, 11 and 7.
I have had 2 x 6 years clean, 1st time a 28 day program Nov,1988, Then
alls really well, married with new baby  then1995 and Cocaine was a way to
make a quick buck -didn’t work —
1996 went to a Christian teatment center for 6 months ,supposed to be a
year, got out , relapsed a couple times and then stayed the path until I
started on percs for a little pain then as 2 and a half years went by I
was
into Oxys by the hand full- and I am still dabbling as a in between when I
over drink my meth.

Soory I wasn’t going to write a story.- but had a service business that I
am
back into. yet now I am much less busy but that is just a little bit of my
life,

MY GOAL IS TO SOMEHOW (I NEED A MIRACLE) TO GET MY LIFE BACK, TO HOPEFULLY
GET TO DO THE IBOGAINE AS SOON AS POSSIBLE.
mUCH TO DO FIRST, LIKE HAVE A PLAN%

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: “Alan Hehe” <a.h.veil68@hotmail.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] Opiate effects
Date: March 31, 2006 at 4:49:47 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hey Nick,

I wanted to say that, although I was basically right, I believe (and according to the research I’ve done) about the reason opiates cause pleasure, I wasn’t entirely correct about the natural opiates (dopamine,etc) having an effect on mood. They do have an affect on mood..but then again, so does euphoria..in fact, it could be said to be a mood unto itself. Here’s a little medical info for:
Opiates (heroin, morphine, etc.)
The human body naturally produces its own opiate-like substances and uses them as neurotransmitters. These substances include endorphins, enkephalins, and dynorphin, often collectively known as endogenous opioids. Endogenous opioids modulate our reactions to painful stimuli. They also regulate vital functions such as hunger and thirst and are involved in mood control, immune response, and other processes. 

The reason that opiates such as heroin and morphine affect us so powerfully is that these exogenous substances bind to the same receptors as our endogenous opioids. There are three kinds of receptors widely distributed throughout the brain: mu, delta, and kappa receptors. 

These receptors, through second messengers, influence the likelihood that ion channels will open, which in certain cases reduces the excitability of neurons. This reduced excitability is the likely source of the euphoric effect of opiates and appears to be mediated by the mu and delta receptors. 

This euphoric effect also appears to involve another mechanism in which the GABA-inhibitory interneurons of the ventral tegmental area come into play. By attaching to their mu receptors, exogenous opioids reduce the amount of GABA released (see animation). Normally, GABA reduces the amount of dopamine released in the nucleus accumbens. By inhibiting this inhibitor, the opiates ultimately increase the amount of dopamine produced and the amount of pleasure felt. 

Chronic consumption of opiates inhibits the production of cAMP, but this inhibition is offset in the long run by other cAMP production mechanisms. When no opiates are available, this increased cAMP production capacity comes to the fore and results in neural hyperactivity and the sensation of craving the drug.

Make FREE PC-to-PC calls with MSN Messenger. Get it now! /]=———————————————————————=[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%] \]=———————————————————————=[/

From: “BILL JOHNSON” <billjohnson6@sympatico.ca>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Tired & OK Today
Date: March 31, 2006 at 9:07:08 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Callie, I guess I need to really try and spend some time reading more (all) posts so as to get to know whats going on ,whos who and where we’er all from and stuff.
What I gather so far is that most have come through life this far and have decided that they have more to offer this world yet and are now attempting to make a differance, beginning with whos in the mirror.
Callie So far , well its kinda hard to be humble (My BIGGEST Problem) well you have sent a couple of replies to me and they are what has kinda lifted me up, its weird kinda, but sometimes it just takes a gentle word or 2 or even just knowing someones listening makes such a differance. At least with myself, I have always been rather sensitive.
Now I would (A dream) write a book, but for now Callie and my other Ibo friends I want to share just a short testimonie about myself. I believe that with the properly prepared words from the heart can and does make a differance.
Well this is my 3rd and most difficult fight I have had or been through (going through) with drugs.
I am 43years young next month, Married for 13 years-(ya she stuck it out the crazy lady) and 2 boys are married off 23 & 25 uh ha, 2 grand kids. And 2 ever soo precious girls at home, 11 and 7.
I have had 2 x 6 years clean, 1st time a 28 day program Nov,1988, Then alls really well, married with new baby  then1995 and Cocaine was a way to make a quick buck -didn’t work —
1996 went to a Christian teatment center for 6 months ,supposed to be a year, got out , relapsed a couple times and then stayed the path until I started on percs for a little pain then as 2 and a half years went by I was into Oxys by the hand full- and I am still dabbling as a in between when I over drink my meth.

Soory I wasn’t going to write a story.- but had a service business that I am back into. yet now I am much less busy but that is just a little bit of my life,

MY GOAL IS TO SOMEHOW (I NEED A MIRACLE) TO GET MY LIFE BACK, TO HOPEFULLY GET TO DO THE IBOGAINE AS SOON AS POSSIBLE.
mUCH TO DO FIRST, LIKE HAVE A PLAN, which is something that I am not great at making,

What I need is Accountability, and unfortunately I cannot put my load on my wife, she has carried me far enough and she needs to be able to just see that her husband is moving forward and showing her something and not just doing my GOOD Talk.

Well if anybody actually read this whole thing I’ll buy you Lunch. ?? maybe!

Blessings to you all

—-Original Message Follows—-
From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Tired
Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2006 13:59:27 EST
MIME-Version: 1.0
Received: from tomts3-srv.bellnexxia.net ([209.226.175.115]) by bay0-pamc1-f4.bay0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Fri, 31 Mar 2006 12:45:42 -0800
Received: from toip4.bellnexxia.net ([209.226.175.87])          by tomts3-srv.bellnexxia.net          (InterMail vM.5.01.06.13 201-253-122-130-113-20050324) with ESMTP          id <20060331204644.NPYH19199.tomts3-srv.bellnexxia.net@toip4.bellnexxia.net>          for <billjohnson6@sympatico.ca>; Fri, 31 Mar 2006 15:46:44 -0500
Received: from tanelorn.mindvox.com (HELO mail.mindvox.com) ([64.124.179.118])  by toip4.bellnexxia.net with ESMTP; 31 Mar 2006 15:45:39 -0500
Received: (qmail 6731 invoked by uid 513); 31 Mar 2006 15:45:33 -0500
Received: (qmail 6725 invoked by uid 514); 31 Mar 2006 15:45:33 -0500
X-Message-Info: moY6YVwXQ47mVfv++ujVxtrMaJ7H9FHSrOq4HL6XqKU=
Mailing-List: contact ibogaine-help@mindvox.com; run by ezmlm
Precedence: bulk
X-No-Archive: yes
List-Post: <mailto:ibogaine@mindvox.com>
List-Help: <mailto:ibogaine-help@mindvox.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:ibogaine-unsubscribe@mindvox.com>
List-Subscribe: <mailto:ibogaine-subscribe@mindvox.com>
Delivered-To: mailing list ibogaine@mindvox.com
X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.1 required=4.0
X-Antivirus-MYDOMAIN-Mail-From: calliemimosa@aol.com via tanelorn.mindvox.com
X-Antivirus-MYDOMAIN: 1.25-st-qms (Clear:RC:0(64.12.138.202):SA:0(0.1/4.0):. Processed in 1.225692 secs Process 6710)
X-Mailer: 9.0 Security Edition for Windows sub 2340
X-Antivirus-MYDOMAIN-MOVED-X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-AOL-IP: 172.21.18.202
Return-Path: ibogaine-return-23206-billjohnson6=sympatico.ca@mindvox.com
X-OriginalArrivalTime: 31 Mar 2006 20:45:42.0561 (UTC) FILETIME=[13B6B910:01C65504]

Hi Bill, Welcome to the list.
Can you please share more about yourself…how old you are, location, drugs
of choice, previous attempts at a clean way of life,etc., etc……..
Hope to hear more about you! So far, it sounds like you have found  something
that might change your life!!
Callie

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

Print Friendly, PDF & Email

Comments are closed.