Ibogaine List Archives - 2002-05

From: “Ashley” <ashley1980@iamwasted.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] hi!
Date: May 31, 2002 at 10:56:01 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi nobody answers any of my emails so far. Please reply! This place is so
dope! Awesome awesome! But I am totally lost. Where is this? I saw the
logos up at Level. They have no url!!!!! Also I know so many people who are
here but how does anyone find anyone unless you know beforehand? Is there a
local areas section plz? I would like SoBe Miami plz. And do you have
physical meets again or I’m confused, I read the articles online and don’t
get it. I’m not dumb I understand its meant to be like that but where do I
find the South Beach sections plz. Nobody can answer that!

And where do I get the logos?? I can’t find the stickers for sale anywhere.
thanks

ash

_____________________________________________
Free email with personality! Over 200 domains!
http://www.MyOwnEmail.com

From: Brett Calabrese <bcalabrese@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Re: Ibogaine abstract for Seattle Harm Reduction Conference; Ibogaine and Methadone
Date: May 31, 2002 at 7:14:24 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

http://www.albany.edu/sourcebook/

Is a good place to find statistics relating to
criminal activity – not specifically addiction

Brett
— “JONATHAN R. ARMSTRONG” <jonarmst@du.edu> wrote:
The figures I always see thrown around are something
like this

~5 million regular users of cannabis (whatever
regular means) in the U.S.
~1 million cocaine addicts (whatever “addict” means)
~300,000 heroin addicts (addict is probably pretty
easy to define in this
case)

I read contradictory statistics all of the time,
like this or that will go
up or down, but the general gist I have seen from
the zillions of stats I
have read is that drug use in general reached a low
in 1992, and climbed a
bit thereafter, but that there has pretty much been
an unchanging base of
hardcore narcotics addicts. Remember the big heroin
scare in the early
90’s, that is was going to invade suburban bedrooms?
I’ve never seen any
statistics that point to more than half a percent of
18 year olds ever
trying dope.

It is doubtful that recreational drug use will ever
be as prevalent as it
was in the 70’s and early 80’s, although I was
seeing some scattered
evidence to the contrary just a year or two ago. We
have a restaurant
here, one “Sacre Bleu” (aka “Sacre Blow”) that had a
mirrored bar and
people would just sit there and sniff coke at the
bar with impunity (the
greatest danger would probably be that the owner,
who managed to look
incredible despite being in her late 30’s and having
3 kids, would come
over and want some) Felt like I was in a time
machine when I saw that,
and head shops sell little spoons and vials and
stuff like that around
here now too, which I never thought I’d see again in
my adult lifetime.

I’d like to see some “real” statistcs; these are
just vague figures that
are averages floating around in my head based on
tabulations I’ve been
keeping about this stuff since I’ve been interested
in it, which has been
for over a decade now.

At the end of the day, it seems like only a
single-digit percentage of
teenagers and young adults will ever try anything
besides marijuana,
although anyone living in a major metropolitan area
probably is baffled by
this statistic – but just remember how big the
suburbs are.

——————————————-
Jonathan R. Armstrong jonarmst@du.edu

“Addiction is a lousy concept.”
-John C. Lilly
——————————————-

On Thu, 30 May 2002, tgoodson7 wrote:

Carla: I would love to have my Grandson detoxed
again. However, he is in
jail right now and is slated to be sent over
to state prison about mid-summer. However, the
Ibogaine treatment he got
has put him good position to endure his next
5 years. He has been in and out of jail 6 or 8
times in the last 7 years
and his last 2 incarcerations were considerably
less
difficult than previously when he had to quit
“cold turkey” because,
obviously, they certainly would not serve him his
daily
dose of Methadone. But he had no withdrawel
symptems the last 2 times. He
has a 5 year term but with about a year credit
for time served and probably gain time credit; he
will still serve 3 to 3
1/2 years. I would say he has reached the
bottom!!

It used to be that every time he was picked up and
jailed he had to quit
“Cold Turkey”. The Sheriff had absolutely no
compasion for a “Junkey”;
nobody does!!! And I think we have somewhere
between 5 and 15 million
addicts walking
around begging for usefull trearment. And these
are hard core addicts.

Some one asked how do we know how many addicts
there are???? I dont know
but the government does not know either!!
My figures are at least as reliable as any figures
from the government. And
less than 10% of the Drug Enforcement Agency
budget is used for education and rehabilitation.
They get somewhere between
50 billion dollars and 70 billion dollars for
fighting this insidious DRUG WAR!!!! They have a
federal budget of about 20
billion dollars and the states has another
20 billion dollars to waste on this god-blessed,
glorious DRUG WAR. And
about 75 % of their budgets are wasted on
the erradication and control of Marijuana, that
virtually harmless, inocuous
LITTLE WEED. Never has so much been spent on
something so harmless with
less positive results in the history of man.

When you consider the contribution by F.B.I.,
I.N.S. the Customs Service,
Border Patrol, The Office of Alcohol, Tobacco,
and Firearms, The Internal Revenue Service, and
other agencies the
government probably shells out in excess of 80
Billion
Dollars annually for The Great And Hallowed
Loosing DRUG WAR. It has lost
ground since the day it was born!!!!
And 75% of that total goes for erradicating and
controlling Marijuana. WW
II cost less than we have wasted on Marijuana
alone!!

Pontificating is my favorite hobby; but that is
pretty obvious, isn’t it???
I hadn’t intended to write a desertation!!!!
Tommy Goodson

—– Original Message —–
From: “Carla Barnes” <carlambarnes@yahoo.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Wednesday, May 29, 2002 6:18 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Re: Ibogaine abstract for
Seattle Harm Reduction
Conference; Ibogaine and Methadone

Hi Tommy.

Knowing what you do now, why not try to detox
him
another time and hope for better results and
some kind
of lessons learned?

From the stories I’ve heard from the people on
this
list, a lot of people here who have made it fell
on
their faces after their first ibogaine and it
took
them some time to manage what they’re doing now.

I’m sorry you’re going through all that. But it
doesn’t sound unusual or that different from the
story
of so many people who did finally learn enough
to keep
off heroin.

Carla B

— tgoodson7 <tgoodson7@cox.net> wrote:
Hi Carla: Yes, my Grandson did get clean but
he
didn’t stay clean. He is
Manic-Depressive as well
Obsessive-Compulsivewhich
is a difficult
combination to contend with. He is also very
impulsive; when an idea pops
into he is so
impulsive that he acts almost
instantainiously. He
almost never analizes a
potential situation before acting!! As you
probably
know that is a sure path to trouble.
Consequences
are always things that
his Mother has to explain to him after the
fact and
that’s a deadly habit.

I thought several times that he had crossed
the line
one too many times and
he finally did pull the final transgression.
He is
almost a little kid in
his reactions to his apprehension.

He took the Ibogaine over a period of about 4
hours
and did very well. He
had his last dose of Methadone about 24 hours
before he ingested the Ibogaine. He first took
a
test dose very light, (
about 100 mg.) to test for any alergic
reaction.
He took about 1000 mg. at
about 8:00 AM, about half an hour after his
test
dose. He tolerated this
first dose very well. Then
at about 12 noon he took his 2nd dose of about
1000
mg. He seemed to
tolerate this fairly well and held it for more
then
4 hours.

He held it for 2 hours and another 2 hours
before
he began to throw up.
However, since he passed the first
2 hours it was considered sufficient. He had
retained the complete doses of
Ibogaine. But we were able to get two
reefers (MArijuana) and they really settled
him down
and he was O.K. from
then on. He had the typical aftermath for
several
days. He went for 6 days
without any sign of withdrawel symptems.
However,
every day he kept talking
about getting to
the Methadone Clinic for his morning dose.
This
became an obsession with
him almost to point of desperation!!

So oan the 7th day he sneaked off and went to
the
clinic and got re-instated
and got his dose. He had been told that if he
missed 3 days he would be automatically
cut-off from
his Methadone. This
had become an obsession with him while
enduring the treatment period. Well, he got
his
Methadone and was
re-instated. But he never did have any
withdrawel
sickness. After a couple of months he screwed
up
again and was put back in
jail. This time he was forced to go cold-
turkey and abstain totally from anything. He
was
very shocked to have no
withdrawel symptems while in jail. He had
always had withdrawel sickness every time he
was
back in jail. He has been
jailed about 6 or 7 times in the last 10
years so he has had to go cold-turkey every
time.
This was the first time
he had no withdrawel sickness..

Anyway, he got into drugs at the age of 12 and
he is
24 now. He started on
Marijuana for a couple of years. He heard all
the
government propanga about
the horrors of Marujuana and when he found out
that
the propaganda was all
lies he tried
some hard stuff, (Morphine) and of course, he
got
hooked right away and has
been on something ever since!!!

If the government would be honest about drugs
there
would a lot fewer people
to experiment with them. One thing you
cant do and that is try to fool kids!! My
Grandson
has a genius I.Q. and
was making straight A’s in the 10th grade when
he switched over and started using hard drugs.
He
simply dropped out of
school about half through the 10th grade.
Then
he started stealing anything he could get his
hands
on to get his drugs. It
has been a wide-awake, screaming night-mare
ever since!!!!

Hope this gives you and Andrea a good
explanation.
Tommy Goodson

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! – Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup
http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com

From: “JONATHAN R. ARMSTRONG” <jonarmst@du.edu>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Re: Ibogaine abstract for Seattle Harm Reduction Conference; Ibogaine and Methadone
Date: May 31, 2002 at 1:55:00 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

The figures I always see thrown around are something like this

~5 million regular users of cannabis (whatever regular means) in the U.S.
~1 million cocaine addicts (whatever “addict” means)
~300,000 heroin addicts (addict is probably pretty easy to define in this
case)

I read contradictory statistics all of the time, like this or that will go
up or down, but the general gist I have seen from the zillions of stats I
have read is that drug use in general reached a low in 1992, and climbed a
bit thereafter, but that there has pretty much been an unchanging base of
hardcore narcotics addicts. Remember the big heroin scare in the early
90’s, that is was going to invade suburban bedrooms? I’ve never seen any
statistics that point to more than half a percent of 18 year olds ever
trying dope.

It is doubtful that recreational drug use will ever be as prevalent as it
was in the 70’s and early 80’s, although I was seeing some scattered
evidence to the contrary just a year or two ago. We have a restaurant
here, one “Sacre Bleu” (aka “Sacre Blow”) that had a mirrored bar and
people would just sit there and sniff coke at the bar with impunity (the
greatest danger would probably be that the owner, who managed to look
incredible despite being in her late 30’s and having 3 kids, would come
over and want some) Felt like I was in a time machine when I saw that,
and head shops sell little spoons and vials and stuff like that around
here now too, which I never thought I’d see again in my adult lifetime.

I’d like to see some “real” statistcs; these are just vague figures that
are averages floating around in my head based on tabulations I’ve been
keeping about this stuff since I’ve been interested in it, which has been
for over a decade now.

At the end of the day, it seems like only a single-digit percentage of
teenagers and young adults will ever try anything besides marijuana,
although anyone living in a major metropolitan area probably is baffled by
this statistic – but just remember how big the suburbs are.

——————————————-
Jonathan R. Armstrong jonarmst@du.edu

“Addiction is a lousy concept.”
-John C. Lilly
——————————————-

On Thu, 30 May 2002, tgoodson7 wrote:

Carla: I would love to have my Grandson detoxed again. However, he is in
jail right now and is slated to be sent over
to state prison about mid-summer. However, the Ibogaine treatment he got
has put him good position to endure his next
5 years. He has been in and out of jail 6 or 8 times in the last 7 years
and his last 2 incarcerations were considerably less
difficult than previously when he had to quit “cold turkey” because,
obviously, they certainly would not serve him his daily
dose of Methadone. But he had no withdrawel symptems the last 2 times. He
has a 5 year term but with about a year credit
for time served and probably gain time credit; he will still serve 3 to 3
1/2 years. I would say he has reached the bottom!!

It used to be that every time he was picked up and jailed he had to quit
“Cold Turkey”. The Sheriff had absolutely no compasion for a “Junkey”;
nobody does!!! And I think we have somewhere between 5 and 15 million
addicts walking
around begging for usefull trearment. And these are hard core addicts.

Some one asked how do we know how many addicts there are???? I dont know
but the government does not know either!!
My figures are at least as reliable as any figures from the government. And
less than 10% of the Drug Enforcement Agency
budget is used for education and rehabilitation. They get somewhere between
50 billion dollars and 70 billion dollars for
fighting this insidious DRUG WAR!!!! They have a federal budget of about 20
billion dollars and the states has another
20 billion dollars to waste on this god-blessed, glorious DRUG WAR. And
about 75 % of their budgets are wasted on
the erradication and control of Marijuana, that virtually harmless, inocuous
LITTLE WEED. Never has so much been spent on something so harmless with
less positive results in the history of man.

When you consider the contribution by F.B.I., I.N.S. the Customs Service,
Border Patrol, The Office of Alcohol, Tobacco,
and Firearms, The Internal Revenue Service, and other agencies the
government probably shells out in excess of 80 Billion
Dollars annually for The Great And Hallowed Loosing DRUG WAR. It has lost
ground since the day it was born!!!!
And 75% of that total goes for erradicating and controlling Marijuana. WW
II cost less than we have wasted on Marijuana
alone!!

Pontificating is my favorite hobby; but that is pretty obvious, isn’t it???
I hadn’t intended to write a desertation!!!!
Tommy Goodson

—– Original Message —–
From: “Carla Barnes” <carlambarnes@yahoo.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Wednesday, May 29, 2002 6:18 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Re: Ibogaine abstract for Seattle Harm Reduction
Conference; Ibogaine and Methadone

Hi Tommy.

Knowing what you do now, why not try to detox him
another time and hope for better results and some kind
of lessons learned?

From the stories I’ve heard from the people on this
list, a lot of people here who have made it fell on
their faces after their first ibogaine and it took
them some time to manage what they’re doing now.

I’m sorry you’re going through all that. But it
doesn’t sound unusual or that different from the story
of so many people who did finally learn enough to keep
off heroin.

Carla B

— tgoodson7 <tgoodson7@cox.net> wrote:
Hi Carla: Yes, my Grandson did get clean but he
didn’t stay clean. He is
Manic-Depressive as well Obsessive-Compulsivewhich
is a difficult
combination to contend with. He is also very
impulsive; when an idea pops
into he is so
impulsive that he acts almost instantainiously. He
almost never analizes a
potential situation before acting!! As you probably
know that is a sure path to trouble. Consequences
are always things that
his Mother has to explain to him after the fact and
that’s a deadly habit.

I thought several times that he had crossed the line
one too many times and
he finally did pull the final transgression. He is
almost a little kid in
his reactions to his apprehension.

He took the Ibogaine over a period of about 4 hours
and did very well. He
had his last dose of Methadone about 24 hours
before he ingested the Ibogaine. He first took a
test dose very light, (
about 100 mg.) to test for any alergic reaction.
He took about 1000 mg. at
about 8:00 AM, about half an hour after his test
dose. He tolerated this
first dose very well. Then
at about 12 noon he took his 2nd dose of about 1000
mg. He seemed to
tolerate this fairly well and held it for more then
4 hours.

He held it for 2 hours and another 2 hours before
he began to throw up.
However, since he passed the first
2 hours it was considered sufficient. He had
retained the complete doses of
Ibogaine. But we were able to get two
reefers (MArijuana) and they really settled him down
and he was O.K. from
then on. He had the typical aftermath for several
days. He went for 6 days
without any sign of withdrawel symptems. However,
every day he kept talking
about getting to
the Methadone Clinic for his morning dose. This
became an obsession with
him almost to point of desperation!!

So oan the 7th day he sneaked off and went to the
clinic and got re-instated
and got his dose. He had been told that if he
missed 3 days he would be automatically cut-off from
his Methadone. This
had become an obsession with him while
enduring the treatment period. Well, he got his
Methadone and was
re-instated. But he never did have any withdrawel
sickness. After a couple of months he screwed up
again and was put back in
jail. This time he was forced to go cold-
turkey and abstain totally from anything. He was
very shocked to have no
withdrawel symptems while in jail. He had
always had withdrawel sickness every time he was
back in jail. He has been
jailed about 6 or 7 times in the last 10
years so he has had to go cold-turkey every time.
This was the first time
he had no withdrawel sickness..

Anyway, he got into drugs at the age of 12 and he is
24 now. He started on
Marijuana for a couple of years. He heard all the
government propanga about
the horrors of Marujuana and when he found out that
the propaganda was all
lies he tried
some hard stuff, (Morphine) and of course, he got
hooked right away and has
been on something ever since!!!

If the government would be honest about drugs there
would a lot fewer people
to experiment with them. One thing you
cant do and that is try to fool kids!! My Grandson
has a genius I.Q. and
was making straight A’s in the 10th grade when
he switched over and started using hard drugs. He
simply dropped out of
school about half through the 10th grade. Then
he started stealing anything he could get his hands
on to get his drugs. It
has been a wide-awake, screaming night-mare
ever since!!!!

Hope this gives you and Andrea a good explanation.
Tommy Goodson

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! – Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup
http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com

From: “Patrick K. Kroupa” <digital@phantom.com>
Subject: A Brief Message Type Thing…
Date: May 31, 2002 at 1:47:01 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I realize a lot of you have signed up here who are specifically interested
in psychedelics/entheogens, more as spiritual reintegration tools; and
don’t wanna get 35 messages a day of Junkie War Stories, or in-depth
analysis of what ibogaine does for heroin addiction.

If Vox is still not open within a week or so — and I mean, it really
COULD be . . . but . . . — I will just start an entheogens list, which
focuses more on that, than the ever-elusive quest to stop bangin’ dope or
smoking crack; which I fully understand is of little interest to many
people.

If you would like to get OFF this list, the instructions are contained in
the headers of every single message which is sent out. Or, to phrase it
another way: ibogaine-unsubscribe@mindvox.com

If you want to get OFF this list AND have your name saved into a file,
which is automagically added to the entheogen list once it lights up,
lemme know (send email), and I will do that.

Patrick

From: “Patrick K. Kroupa” <digital@phantom.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] nakills
Date: May 31, 2002 at 1:40:20 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

On [Fri, May 31, 2002 at 09:52:46AM -0700], [vector6@space.com] wrote:

| Not to ask a dumb question but what happened to the NA Kills banner? I
| thought it looked cool and now it’s gone. Did people hassle you?

No, if anybody did hassle me about it, then it prolly would still be
there… I was just cranky, that dude was a fuckhead — who in all
probability will go right back to sending out email to people explaining
how I am One of The Lost, on methadone, and probably bangin’ dope. But…
it really isn’t my goal to harass anyone. If someone looks at mINDvOX and
freaks, oh well… It’s All You meng, and whatever you’re projecting or
repressing.

However, many of my friends ARE in some 12-step program or another,
various people on this list are having positive results with it; and
basically if someone who is working the steps — or trying to — clicks on
Vox, they’re interested in ibogaine, and that pops up in their face… It
might make them feel less than good. I have no desire to alienate anyone,
nor challenge whatever is working for them, so… all I’m doing is the
same thing THEY, THEM and THOSE PEOPLE do, thus… why bother, let it go.

I just threw it into Links under Harm Reduction <shrug>.

Patrick

From: vector6@space.com
Subject: [ibogaine] nakills
Date: May 31, 2002 at 12:52:46 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Not to ask a dumb question but what happened to the NA Kills banner? I thought it looked cool and now it’s gone. Did people hassle you? .:vector:.
___________________________________________________________________
Join the Space Program: Get FREE E-mail at http://www.space.com.

From: Ustanova Iboga <Iboga@guest.arnes.si>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] ? for you all on this list – 12 step programs
Date: May 31, 2002 at 12:11:31 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Rick,

it seems to me that you’re in a great position to MAKE Ibogaine a bit more mainstream! Get your co-workers interested, all of you should demand Ibogaine instead of Meth, and (if nothing else) you’ll hit main news ;-))

No, really, print some Ibogaine experiences from the net and give them to your co-workers, or just leave them somewhere people can read them…

It’s pitty you live in a such beautiful country where only your government knows what is the best for people, so it puts Ibogaine on Schedule1 :-((
(this is in correlation with recent discussion about people who know what is the best for other people)

Marko

At 15:16 31.5.2002, you wrote:
Read about it in some newsletter about 2-3 years ago. Read some more on
erowid. Then had a client who wanted to know what I’d heard, so I
started looking into it at greater length. I haven’t really discussed
it with my co-workers since it’s just not a realistic treatment option
at this point for most patients here. Maybe if it ever gets a bit more
mainstream. I think most of my co-workers would look upon it favorably.

From: Brett Calabrese <bcalabrese@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] reccomendations
Date: May 31, 2002 at 11:06:09 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Christina,

Good of you to ask. 2 things you need to know about
the “really crazy stuff” is that every addict is
different and everyone responds to ibogaine
differently – even the same person on a different day
will. My personal opinion is to have treatment (or
guide) by someone who has taken ibogaine themselves. I
am pretty sure Dr. Mash hasn’t (and if she did
wouldn’t tell you) and while it is not my style (I
hate hospitals) I am sure she would give good
treatment, certainly from a medical end, Her treatment
would be better (IMO of course) and more needed for
someone who needs TREATMENT. She treats with ibogaine
as a detox plus 2 weeks inpatient (as I remember) in a
treatment program. People (addicts) who are in more
need of this kind of treatment would be patients who
have never been through treatment, never gotten clean.
In my case it would have been unnecessary, I knew
exactly what to do and how to do it once I broke the
addiction cycle. So I think one kind of treatment for
one kind of person/patient is better than another.
There is someone in the Netherlands (HI SARA) who is
the very compassionate, knowlegable, sure but from
what perspective? Mash knows more about medicine for
sure as do other MD’s doing treatment, on the other
hand she (Sara) knows more about herbal treatment and
how to get into ones self/spirit. People do it in
hotel rooms across (inside) and around (outside) and
it works out fine for some, some “do it themselves”
and that works too. If I were to need treatment I
would seek out an experienced guide who as you say is
“most comapssionate knowledgable, ethical, etc.”,
there are certainly those who lack in those abilities
doing treatments”. MY pick would be Sara unless I
found someone I trusted closer to the US and I don’t
like medical environments (or the expense, especially
considering it may take more than one shot). Eric Taub
does treatments (or arranges them) and is quite
experienced, will spend the time and can arrange
treatment in a medical environment – far as I know, we
have not had much contact lately. It depends on you
largely, if you are very modest (hey, I go get naked
on a public beach and it bothers me about as much as
it would a 2 year old)it may be better to have a woman
treat you (or a medical environment) as being on
ibogaine is not a modest situation by its nature.
Someone has to change you if/when you puke on
yourself, help you to the bathroom (almost certainly
if you need to go) or talk to you when you have an
“emotional upheaval” (as my Finacee calls it)…
MY other option would be to go off somewhere, say the
Bahamas, take my Fiancee and just do it – which in
reality would be my absolute first pick since it is
viable option for me, she knows what to do, has taken
ibogaine, so have I, she sat me, I sat her (not for
addiction)… but that is me. If you choose a guide
you may not be able to meet the person ahead of time
(or even speak), you need to feel comfortable meeting
someone somewhere and they do need to be trustworthy.

And then sometimes there is just not getting through.
Addicts are difficult folks, I hear stories all the
time about what that nasty guide did or the ibogaine
didn’t work (cause it ain’t no magic bullet honey, you
gotta do your part), that they were in full blown
withdrawal, as if they didn’t take any ibo except they
were being drug through hell the whole time… Some of
it may be true, most of it is created in their heads
(so they can get high, it is the guides fault, the
ibogaine’s fault…). Be ready to GIVE IT UP, if you
ain’t ready, don’t do the work, your chances are poor
with any treatment method, ibogaine included. Oh, and
that post-ibogaine period (I call the IBO-Glow) when
the world is wonderful, the butterflys are glorious,
you are all ahhhh, fresh air and sunshine and you feel
several levels above the spirituality of Buddah (if
that is what happens), it passes, do the work when you
have the chance and don’t take it for granted that all
is well. Be ready to take a 2nd treatment if needed,
or maybe if not needed… I personally would (did).

Then you can get into Indra vs ibogaine HCL and that
is another story. If I had my choice of one over the
other for addiction it would be HCL (not that indra
doesn’t work, it certainly does), if it was for some
kind of spiritual experimentation, it would be Indra,
if I could mix the 2 I would for either. They are
somewhat different creatures. But then, I know too
much and people who know too much make bad patients…

Luck,
Brett

— Christina Kester <poppy_1974@hotmail.com> wrote:
for those of you who have detoxed thru someone in
the US, who did you detox
with and who do you reccommend? what kind of
reputations do the various
providers of this service have?(i don’t want to name
any specific names)
i’ve heard some really crazy stuff about some of the
people and just want to
know who’s the best, most comapssionate,
knowledgable, ethical, etc.
thanks so much
christina

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From: “preston peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] ? for you all on this list – 12 step programs
Date: May 31, 2002 at 9:21:20 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

pleased to meet you.;-))
Peace,
Preston
—– Original Message —–
From: Rick Venglarcik
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Friday, May 31, 2002 9:16 AM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] ? for you all on this list – 12 step programs

Read about it in some newsletter about 2-3 years ago. Read some more on
erowid. Then had a client who wanted to know what I’d heard, so I
started looking into it at greater length. I haven’t really discussed
it with my co-workers since it’s just not a realistic treatment option
at this point for most patients here. Maybe if it ever gets a bit more
mainstream. I think most of my co-workers would look upon it favorably.
They’ve been in the field for a long enough time to see that there’s
more than one way to skin cats. I usually bring it up every few months
in one of my groups, or in individual sessions. I’ll often discuss it
with individuals who just don’t seem to be able to make it work with
methadone or the cold turkey and NA approach. Unfortunately, many, if
not most, counselors are victims of group-think and are fairly well
indoctrinated into any number of biases. I’m still shocked at SA
counselors and other medical professionals who are so down on methadone.
One thing I’ve learned is that most people tend to be sheep and really
don’t think for themselves. Reading, researching, questioning, and
thinking are all hard work…you have to be willing to question your own
sacred cows and even get rid of long-standing beliefs, opinions, and
ideas…and, dare I say, be able to admit, hey, I was wrong. I guess
I’m just one of those good-hearted, compassionate counselors that wants
to see people get better, however that can be accomplished. The more
educated I have become, the more I have realized how little I know. It
is a great arrogance to hold forth and say “this is the only way,”
because it worked for me, and everybody else I listen to says so.
…and sometimes, I’m wrong, and I need to listen to what the other
people say.

_____________________________________
Rick Venglarcik, MA, CSAC
Hampton Roads Clinic
2236 W. Queen St., Suite C
Hampton, VA 23666

Office: (757) 827-8430 x144
Fax: (757) 826-2772
Cell: (757) 270-9839
_____________________________________

>>> ptpeet@nyc.rr.com 05/31/02 08:25AM >>>
How’d you hear about ibogaine? Have you discussed it with your
coworkers? Any of your clients? What’ve the reaction been if you have?
I’ve a friend here in NYC who works as a methadone counselor. (Hi Laura,
receiving a closed copy of this) She doesn’t seem to like it a heck of a
lot, (as near as I can tell) but I’m now going to have to ask her what
she thinks about this, if she’s heard of ibogaine and what her thoughts
are on this kind of thing. I imagine that many methadone counselors
would not be adverse to something like ibogaine as they are already on
the harm reduction trip, and already utilize alternative substances to
interrupt dope abuse. The meth clinic owners might not be so thrilled,
but the counselors who are in their line of work for what I consider
constructive reasons, i.e. compassion, caring for others, simple good
heartedness, that kind of thing, I would think they’d at least be open
to the possibilities of ibogaine.

From: “Rick Venglarcik” <RickV@hnncsb.org>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] ? for you all on this list – 12 step programs
Date: May 31, 2002 at 9:16:01 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

_____________________________________
Rick Venglarcik, MA, CSAC
Hampton Roads Clinic
2236 W. Queen St., Suite C
Hampton, VA 23666

Office: (757) 827-8430 x144
Fax: (757) 826-2772
Cell: (757) 270-9839
_____________________________________

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com 05/31/02 08:25AM >>>
How’d you hear about ibogaine? Have you discussed it with your
coworkers? Any of your clients? What’ve the reaction been if you have?
I’ve a friend here in NYC who works as a methadone counselor. (Hi Laura,
receiving a closed copy of this) She doesn’t seem to like it a heck of a
lot, (as near as I can tell) but I’m now going to have to ask her what
she thinks about this, if she’s heard of ibogaine and what her thoughts
are on this kind of thing. I imagine that many methadone counselors
would not be adverse to something like ibogaine as they are already on
the harm reduction trip, and already utilize alternative substances to
interrupt dope abuse. The meth clinic owners might not be so thrilled,
but the counselors who are in their line of work for what I consider
constructive reasons, i.e. compassion, caring for others, simple good
heartedness, that kind of thing, I would think they’d at least be open
to the possibilities of ibogaine.

From: “preston peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] ? for you all on this list – 12 step programs
Date: May 31, 2002 at 8:25:59 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

>For the most part, I just think
that drug abuse is a big waste of time…like sitting on one screen on
PS2 and refusing to move forward, then your time runs out…game over. <

Hey Rick,
What a great analogy. Of course, I personally differentiate between drug use and drug abuse, (and play PC games rather than PS2) but still, the above is such a good comparison in this day and age.
How’d you hear about ibogaine? Have you discussed it with your coworkers? Any of your clients? What’ve the reaction been if you have? I’ve a friend here in NYC who works as a methadone counselor. (Hi Laura, receiving a closed copy of this) She doesn’t seem to like it a heck of a lot, (as near as I can tell) but I’m now going to have to ask her what she thinks about this, if she’s heard of ibogaine and what her thoughts are on this kind of thing. I imagine that many methadone counselors would not be adverse to something like ibogaine as they are already on the harm reduction trip, and already utilize alternative substances to interrupt dope abuse. The meth clinic owners might not be so thrilled, but the counselors who are in their line of work for what I consider constructive reasons, i.e. compassion, caring for others, simple good heartedness, that kind of thing, I would think they’d at least be open to the possibilities of ibogaine.
Peace,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: Rick Venglarcik
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Friday, May 31, 2002 6:51 AM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] ? for you all on this list – 12 step programs

All my business:
Various and assorted drugs for about 10 years. Definitely addicted and
tried to quit for a couple of years. Mainly pot, alcohol,
hallucinogens, and a plethora of “I’ll take whatever I can get my hands
on because I don’t have anything else.” Thankfully, no opiate
addiction, but of course there was the occasional abuse of RX opiates.
Once I was “sick and tired…” I “got saved,” then got a real life.
This coincided with completing college. Got a job as a drug counselor.
Got sick of that, went back to school and got my Master’s degree.
Strangely, I actually wanted to get back into the SA field. I was just
burnt out after my first tour of duty. Got a job at a methadone clinic
where I’ve been for the past 5-6 years. Working with opiate addiction
is definitely the most stressful job I’ve ever had, but I found that I
thrive on chaos and change. I started getting really interested in
ibogaine about a year or so ago in terms of its possibilities for
treating opiate dependence.

My philosophy is, “whatever it is, if it works, work it,” and keep
growing emotionally, psychologically, intellectually, etc. One answer
doesn’t necessarily fit all, but there are some answers that tend to be
better answers for the most people. For the most part, I just think
that drug abuse is a big waste of time…like sitting on one screen on
PS2 and refusing to move forward, then your time runs out…game over.
A number of personal experiences and positive relationships, as well as
the daily reminder by the patients I work with, reminds me that the game
costs everything to play, you’ve got one life, and no replays, so it’s
up to me to decide what is truly most important and to make the smart
choices to rack up the “points” that, to me, equals winning. After 14
years of working “a program,” so to speak, I’m real comfortable in my
own skin and life is much more interesting without using drugs. I guess
that’s about it.

_____________________________________
Rick Venglarcik, MA, CSAC
Hampton Roads Clinic
2236 W. Queen St., Suite C
Hampton, VA 23666

Office: (757) 827-8430 x144
Fax: (757) 826-2772
Cell: (757) 270-9839
_____________________________________

From: “Rick Venglarcik” <RickV@hnncsb.org>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] ? for you all on this list – 12 step programs
Date: May 31, 2002 at 6:51:56 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

_____________________________________
Rick Venglarcik, MA, CSAC
Hampton Roads Clinic
2236 W. Queen St., Suite C
Hampton, VA 23666

Office: (757) 827-8430 x144
Fax: (757) 826-2772
Cell: (757) 270-9839
_____________________________________

From: “Christina Kester” <poppy_1974@hotmail.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] reccomendations
Date: May 31, 2002 at 12:29:43 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

for those of you who have detoxed thru someone in the US, who did you detox with and who do you reccommend? what kind of reputations do the various providers of this service have?(i don’t want to name any specific names)
i’ve heard some really crazy stuff about some of the people and just want to know who’s the best, most comapssionate, knowledgable, ethical, etc.
thanks so much
christina

_________________________________________________________________
Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com

From: Gamma <gammalyte9000@yahoo.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] For What Its Worth
Date: May 30, 2002 at 7:47:42 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In light of the on-going thread regarding 12 steps, the “disease” (oooh,
scary!) and other related topics including but not limited to Entheogens,
personal opinions and experiences….

I have developed a Non-Belief in the whole “Disease” concept.

I prefer to refer

to it

Dis-Ease

That unmistakable feeling of not being comfortable in my own skin that
propelled me [for one reason or another] into hArD cOrE drug consumption.

NOR is any addict powerless. while actively using, yeah… you are powerless.
But once you stop using and make a choice not to use, you have gained power.
the context of that first step is PAST TENSE (“we admitted we WERE powerless
over our addiction and our lives HAD become unmanagable”)

futhermore [lest i digress into rambling] in my most humble of opinions, I do
NOT view the sacramental use of entheogens [by the ex-addict] to be a RELAPSE.
[besides its your own karma if you use sacred medicines as recreational highs]
Mr. Bill (as in Bill W.) used LSD while he was “in recovery” and it was never
classified as a “relapse”. Quite the contrare. Now this is a “dodgy” [thanks
Nick for that term, first heard in on Radio EXP!?&%] subject for 12 steppers,
and working with the 12 steps myself the whole entheogen concept can be a
mindfuck if I buy into the whole “complete and total abstinence except
caffeine, nicotine and sugar” routine. But I don’t. I believe in healing.
Especially in Divine Healing Plant Medicines. Most especially them, for without
them I’d be still standing in line at the Methadone clinic, convincing myself
of god knows what, pissing in a bottle at random so I can qualify to take home
a few doses for the weekend. Word.

12 steps are a great resource but there are MANY things aside from them that
are highly helpful to folks like us.

shit. I rambled. Apologies. Jeez, as a good friend sez its all in your head.

you may go now.

-Gamma

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! – Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup
http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com

From: Matt O’Connor <rosetti3@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] hello
Date: May 30, 2002 at 7:34:22 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

— Gamma <gammalyte9000@yahoo.com> wrote:

— preston peet <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com> wrote:
Peptol Bismol binge? Egad, that sounds like loads
of fun. Whatever possessed
you? Pepto Bismal does not get one high, to the
best of my knowledge. ;-)))
Peace,
Preston

Shhh its a secret. if you mix it with the correct
mdma uptake inhibitor and
read 20 pages of that science fiction type guy Mr.
Dick while sitting in the
lotus position and channeling the golden light thru
your third eye you will
feel something.

pass the pepto!

_______________________________________Dude!

That was wicked funny!

Matt O’Connor

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! – Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup
http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com

From: “tgoodson7” <tgoodson7@cox.net>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Re: Ibogaine abstract for Seattle Harm Reduction Conference; Ibogaine and Methadone
Date: May 30, 2002 at 7:31:53 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com