Ibogaine List Archives - 2003-07

From: “Patrick K. Kroupa” <digital@phantom.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] Fwd: addiction not curablel
Date: July 31, 2003 at 6:19:47 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hum … we should, like, fer instance, start a BEST OF section for
ibogaine-related email. Todaze comes from ibogaine.org.

HelLo. I am oN drugZ and Using the (omputer. I have momentarily set down
my crackpipe and stopPed downloading pr0n to wr1te ewe a letter, sharing
my thotz. GoddDamN KeyBored keeps MOVING.

Furthermore,

From: Gamma <gammalyte9000@yahoo.com>
Subject: Fwd: addiction not curablel
Date: July 31, 2003 at 3:00:46 AM EDT
To: digital@phantom.com

news flash…

I can type drunk too!

-d

— Alan Sutherland <asutherland14@cogeco.ca> wrote:
From: “Alan Sutherland” <asutherland14@cogeco.ca>
To: <gammalyte9000@yahoo.com>
Subject: addiction not curablel
Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 14:36:14 -0400

hi editor; fter recoveing from alcholism for 20 years stil thi myself lcholic
addiction is conditioned reflex cuabl e onl death i support thacovery is
possible thru 12step program which guides spirtual gowth without which oesing
of addiction is possible regards al. s.

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From: Brett Calabrese <bcalabrese@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] info
Date: July 31, 2003 at 6:08:21 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hey you

You are WHO and interested in WHAT for WHAT?

Since you are on one of the ibogaine lists, can I
assume ibogaine? For you? (stats/history/about is
helpful) For addiction? For someone else? (ditto) For
non-addiction reasons? Do you want a Bwiti Ritual? Do
you want ibo as a doping agent for your next sporting
event? Do you want it for its aphrodisiac properties?
Its mood elevation properties? Are you a baren woman
trying to find a fertility drug (no iboga fruit around
though)? Do you need it softer, more spiritual and
natural or have deep issues you need dug up with a
crow bar? Ibo, and its flavors do this and more,
different form of ibo is a bit different, ibo also has
different effects at different dosages, it is a
sedative and stimulant for example. It even effects
boys and girls somewhat differently, unless you are a
different species, then it also effects you
differently. It is also highly unpredictable, I don’t
know if 100mg test dose will knock you on your ass or
do nothing, I don’t know if a full dose will have the
same effect, usually it works just fine though (don’t
mean to scare you, just make a point).

Not looking to break your chops but ibogaine has many
uses, it also effects people differently, typically
different addictions have more specific responses (ie
methadone is a bit different than dope which is
different than doing non-opiates…

While you are thinking of answers, go to ibogaine.org,
ibogaine.org/manual.html (follow the links is helpful)
and ibogaine.co.uk or if you are like way too fucked
up to figure it out ask us something like; “I am
interested it. Can You tell me some more info”.

OK yes it works far better than all the drug
treatments combined times some huge number – for me.
Lets see, quit coke/alcohol (after a “run”, counted
gone/dead I returned from treatment literally
levitating and at peace), a year ago the cigarettes
went too… by then though the second I put them down
I knew without any doubt that I was a non-smoker, and
that I still am, not one and don’t care to.

Meanwhile, Geez, I feel yucky. My pain doc is fucking
with me and so is the medication, the 12 hour tabs
that I am taking every 8 hours don’t work. The doc has
control issues with the meds so while he gets his shit
together I am going off. This is like way too
complicated, no wonder I gave up on doctors 17 years
ago and just drank, much cheaper, simple, to the
point, the bartender doesn’t care but listens. Why am
I not taking ibo for this you ask, for 30mg oxycontin,
that is a baby addiction, I’ll live. Anyway, good
practice don’t you think?

Really though, don’t mind me, I am just blowing off
steam, am really detoxing from pain meds w/o ibo, have
done ibo for both pre and post real addiction. It took
me several tries at it, then some more “boosters” as I
call them. These days I do just do sick things like
get myself addicted to pain meds and then just detox
to prove how (sick) healthy I am and NO I don’t have
control issues, what gave you that idea? (anyone on
medication DO NOT DO WHAT I DO, I AM DEEPLY DISTURBED)

$%^&*ing doctor… meanwhile I guess it could be
worse, he could know about my former life <hee hee>
and then really put the control screws, sign this
contract, pee here… geez. I never got the point or
have seen any use in people doing things to protect me
from me, the best it has done is provide me an excuse
to use/drink, and with good reason.

Anyone know if it is cheaper to get your drugs from
the doctor/pharmacy or illegally? That is not
including lawyers, fines and other things that happen
after getting caught? That only happens to other
people you know.

Really though ibo works, do you?

And like if you have a name, that is also helpful.

Brett
— yojeda@bellsouth.net wrote:
I am interested it. Can You tell me some more info.
Thanks

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From: <yojeda@bellsouth.net>
Subject: [ibogaine] info
Date: July 30, 2003 at 3:03:01 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I am interested it. Can You tell me some more info. Thanks

From: JSchran@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Hopi prophecies
Date: July 30, 2003 at 1:56:58 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Sue;
I have long known about the Hopi prophecies, but if you trace North American Indian folk lore you will find that many speak, perhaps not as direct of this time. I have just returned from Peru and met the Q’ero at 13,000 feet on a hill top. Their message is also a warning. People had better wake up and get their hearts RECONNECTED to Pachamomma(Earth Mother) who is VERY ALIVE and Well. Too bad the same can’t be said for her children. Be PEACE! Jim

From: nodoff@wetnightmare.com
Subject: [ibogaine] Hopi prophecies
Date: July 30, 2003 at 10:39:32 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In the late 80’s I watched a video of this presentation by Lee Brown, a Hopi
Indian.His speech was simple, but powerful. Just happened to come across a
transcript and wish to share- any reaction? regards, Sue
http://www.alaska.net/~peace/hopi.htm

From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: [ibogaine] ibogaine presentations
Date: July 29, 2003 at 11:13:13 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Please be advised of a very interesting presentation on ibogaine.

http://www.csam-asam.org/2003SOA/2003Index.htm

California Society for Addiction Medicine

Addiction Medicine State of the Art 2003
October 8-11, 2003, Radisson-Miyako Hotel, San Francisco

Conference Schedule

Thursday, October 9

3:50 Clinical Aspects of Ibogaine
Deborah C. Mash, PhD, Professor of Neurology, University of Miami School of
Medicine

4:20 Ibogaine Analogues: Drug Development for Addictive Disorders
Stanley Glick, PhD, MD, Professor and Director, The Center for
Neuropharmacology and Neuroscience,
Albany Medical Center, Albany, NY

4:50 What Can Ibogaine Teach Us About the Mechanisms Underlying Addiction?
Dorit Ron, PhD, Assistant Professor of Neurology, Ernest Gallo Clinic &
Research Center, UCSF

5:20 Panel Discussion

From: Jon Freedlander <jfreed1@umbc.edu>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Fwd: [vox] ALMIGHTY HAND OF GOD BITCH-SLAPS DISNEY
Date: July 29, 2003 at 7:16:46 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Man, you people have no sense of humour…

LIGHTENING HIT A DISNEY GIRAFFE!

Granted, it would’ve been funnier if it had hit Cinderella’s Castle, or
that stupid EPCOT ball thing..

I wonder how you go about removing a charred giraffe corpse?

Anyway, for the person who asked about Bwiti music (see i’m making this
post on topic), you can buy it from Smithsonian Folkways. I don’t know
their website offhand, but you can look it up on Google or something..

From: “Mary Adams” <m.adams01@comcast.net>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Fwd: [vox] ALMIGHTY HAND OF GOD BITCH-SLAPS DISNEY
Date: July 29, 2003 at 11:42:25 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I’m American and I fail to see the humor.

——-Original Message——-

From: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Date: Tuesday, July 29, 2003 8:34:54 AM
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Fwd: [vox] ALMIGHTY HAND OF GOD BITCH-SLAPS DISNEY

Sorry , Am I missing something. I can’t quite see the humour in that or is it some Americanism I’m missing. Allison
——-Original Message——-

From: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Date: Friday, 25 July 2003 1:06:19 p.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [ibogaine] Fwd: [vox] ALMIGHTY HAND OF GOD BITCH-SLAPS DISNEY

This is from the vox list, not exactly on topic here but too funny 🙂

..:vector:.

— Vigilius Haufniensis <thehatefulnerd@centurytel.net> wrote:
> From: “Vigilius Haufniensis” <thehatefulnerd@centurytel.net>
> To: <vox@mindvox.com>
> Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 21:31:17 -0500
> Subject: [vox] ALMIGHTY HAND OF GOD BITCH-SLAPS DISNEY
>
> http://www.abcactionnews.com/stories/2003/07/030723disney.shtml
>
> Lightning kills giraffe at Disney’s Animal Kingdom
> an Associated Press report 7/23/03
> LAKE BUENA VISTA – Lightning struck and killed a giraffe at Disney’s
> Animal Kingdom theme park, company officials said Wednesday.
>
> The accident occurred Monday afternoon as a severe lightning storm
> moved over the Kilimanjaro Safari attraction, where Betsy the giraffe
> roamed as visitors passed through, Disney spokeswoman Diane Ledder
> said.
>
> A necropsy confirmed that the 6-year-old female giraffe was killed by
> lightning, Ledder said.
>
> “To the best of my knowledge, it was a quick death,” she said. It was
> unclear if any tourists saw the lighting strike.
>
> Betsy was the first animal to die from a lightning strike at the
> central Florida theme park, she said.
>
> “It’s very unfortunate and unusual … but it has happened in the
> past” at other U.S. parks, Ledder said.
>
> The park has lightning rods placed throughout the safari area to
> protect animals, she said. Animals can also be brought inside during
> severe weather, but the lightning storm came through with too little
> warning, she said.
>
>

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From: Nick Labus <goosebumpz2002@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Fwd: [vox] ALMIGHTY HAND OF GOD BITCH-SLAPS DISNEY
Date: July 29, 2003 at 1:55:49 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

you sick bastards maybe if it was one of the salesmen or buisness men from disney but not a poor defenslese giraffe they are so cool i dont see the humor either i see the sadness though!tgoodson7 <tgoodson7@cox.net> wrote:
I don’t get it, either, and I am from N.W. Fla.
Tommy G.
—– Original Message —–
From: Allison Senepart
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Tuesday, July 29, 2003 8:33 AM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Fwd: [vox] ALMIGHTY HAND OF GOD BITCH-SLAPS DISNEY

Sorry , Am I missing something. I can’t quite see the humour in that or is it some Americanism I’m missing. Allison
——-Original Message——-

From: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Date: Friday, 25 July 2003 1:06:19 p.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [ibogaine] Fwd: [vox] ALMIGHTY HAND OF GOD BITCH-SLAPS DISNEY

This is from the vox list, not exactly on topic here but too funny 🙂

..:vector:.

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From: “tgoodson7” <tgoodson7@cox.net>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Fwd: [vox] ALMIGHTY HAND OF GOD BITCH-SLAPS DISNEY
Date: July 29, 2003 at 12:00:55 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I don’t get it, either, and I am from N.W. Fla.
Tommy G.
—– Original Message —–
From: Allison Senepart
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Tuesday, July 29, 2003 8:33 AM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Fwd: [vox] ALMIGHTY HAND OF GOD BITCH-SLAPS DISNEY

Sorry , Am I missing something. I can’t quite see the humour in that or is it some Americanism I’m missing. Allison
——-Original Message——-

From: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Date: Friday, 25 July 2003 1:06:19 p.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [ibogaine] Fwd: [vox] ALMIGHTY HAND OF GOD BITCH-SLAPS DISNEY

This is from the vox list, not exactly on topic here but too funny 🙂

..:vector:.

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From: “Allison Senepart” <aa.senepart@xtra.co.nz>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Fwd: [vox] ALMIGHTY HAND OF GOD BITCH-SLAPS DISNEY
Date: July 29, 2003 at 9:33:15 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Sorry , Am I missing something. I can’t quite see the humour in that or is it some Americanism I’m missing. Allison
——-Original Message——-

From: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Date: Friday, 25 July 2003 1:06:19 p.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [ibogaine] Fwd: [vox] ALMIGHTY HAND OF GOD BITCH-SLAPS DISNEY

This is from the vox list, not exactly on topic here but too funny 🙂

..:vector:.

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From: IBOGA Foundation <iboga@guest.arnes.si>
Subject: [ibogaine] Bwiti music
Date: July 29, 2003 at 5:59:59 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi all,

I know this was ON before, but I don’t have my computer (at the moment)
and a friend asked me if there is any Bwiti music available? Would buy
CD(s).

Thx,

Marko

From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] multiple doses
Date: July 28, 2003 at 11:43:25 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 7/29/03 2:56:39 AM, randyhencken@hotmail.com writes:

FDA dropped the ball.

Sorry, the fda did not drop the ball. They put it in the game.

Howard

From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] multiple doses
Date: July 28, 2003 at 11:42:32 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Randy,

Why wait till someone is in jail. Do a CIA job. Just dump kgs of ibogaine
into heroin using neighborhoods. Let’s skip jail entirely.

Howard

In a message dated 7/29/03 2:56:39 AM, randyhencken@hotmail.com writes:

You have an interesting prosepective and I will take it into account.
It sure would be nice if we could make Ibogaine available to anyone who
wanted
it. I have always though that it would be great to have in jails.
A junkie comes in for petty theft. He is facing sitting in jail for 48
hours to two weeks. He is giiving the option to sit in a cell and go
through cold turkey or take the magic pill. I bet we would see a huge
change in the face of addiction and drug use in society if this were the
case. Hey, I think that is a pretty damn good idea. Anybody on this
list well connected? CIA? DEA? Wardens? If you guys want to do some good
for
us put this jail idea into acton. You could pick up where the pharmaceutical
companies and the FDA dropped the ball.

From: “Randy Hencken” <randyhencken@hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: [ibogaine] multiple doses
Date: July 28, 2003 at 10:55:36 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Brett,

A junkie comes in for petty theft. He is facing sitting in jail for 48 hours to two weeks. He is giiving the option to sit in a cell and go through cold turkey or take the magic pill. I bet we would see a huge change in the face of addiction and drug use in society if this were the case. Hey, I think that is a pretty damn good idea. Anybody on this list well connected? CIA? DEA? Wardens? If you guys want to do some good for us put this jail idea into acton. You could pick up where the pharmaceutical companies and the FDA dropped the ball.

Peace,
Randy

From: Brett Calabrese <bcalabrese@yahoo.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: RE: [ibogaine] multiple doses
Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2003 15:39:55 -0700 (PDT)

Carla

“> Are you still the same person with the same
> perspective on yourself ”

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From: Brett Calabrese <bcalabrese@yahoo.com>
Subject: RE: [ibogaine] multiple doses
Date: July 28, 2003 at 6:39:55 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Carla

“> Are you still the same person with the same
perspective on yourself ”

No, speaking for myself. Yes I am the same person but
minus a shitload of demons flying around in my head
causing a traffic jam. I am absolutely NOT the same
person who use to abuse drugs, smoke cigarettes, drink
etc, I no-longer do those things, no longer crave
those things (yuck), can’t even believe it was me that
did those things (yeah, I was there…). That is to
say they have been extracted from me in a way
absolutely impossible otherwise, so yes I am different
and thankfully so is my perspective. “Addiction”, that
thing that had my life and my soul for so long, is
gone from me basically, like it is alien to me; fyi
it’s been a while since my last booster and I don’t
“feel” a “need”. I take narcotic pain medication and
just dropped the dose, some withdrawal was involved. I
wouldn’t do any back-up meds because I wanted to
adjust to the new dose see my reactions/if I could do
it. As long as I am safe, not dealing with the world
(or anything really), I am relatively comfortable, at
peace; in a Yoga position is a good place for example,
finding the car keys is a very BAD place, so would
driving. Whatever magic that I saw in the drugs, it is
gone from me in a way unobtainable any other way
period.

Randy, it is highly likely your perspective on doing
ibogaine multiple times would change say if you did
4-6 doses (12mg/kg range or better) over 2, 3, 4…
years. IMO the difference in taking ibogaine to get
clean and taking it on ones own terms sober is a
different experience, like night and day maybe. I
would not want to judge how and what one experience
would do for me by the other, or even if I thought I
“needed” it or wanted it. Once upon a time, I thought
that was how it worked, just do the ibo, then all the
work is up to you… For me that is outright not true
(a one shot deal followed by enough willingness and
effort). Believe me I TRIED THAT and then after
another dose then after another… then gave up and
just did boosters… they accumulate, THINGS CHANGE
and wonder of wonders I don’t need boosters any
longer. Things changed.

“. We will do the end user a greater
good if we tell them from
the get go that it isn’t about how many times you
take ibo, it is about how
hard you try after you take ibo.”

We will do the end user the greater good if we don’t
keep score. It is NOT (IMO) about one or the other, it
is about both the ibo and the effort and getting clean
(and of course the end result). I have also seen ibo
do some interesting things to the “unwilling” ( both
before, during and after) so I couldn’t ever say “100%
of the time there will be no gain from taking ibo
without putting in any effort”, that would be false.
IBO does stuff beyond just detox, just as it is, right
on its own, no effort but not 0% and not 100%. I will
BET you that if you dosed every single addict with
25mg/kg of HCL, you would have a shitload of success
stories, some no doubt would put in more effort cause
the ibo makes it easier to do so.

Brett

I used to think this was true. I know that this
conversation has happened here a lot of time in the
past. But I think that ibogaine does more then just
detoxes you. I cant say this as well as its been
said here before by others. but patrick, howard,
others have all mentioned the same thing.

Are you still the same person with the same
perspective on yourself and your life, after you’ve
done ibogaine 3 or 4 times or does it make no
difference? Hasn’t everyone here said that it gives
them something different with each experience?

I know that for me I made i made a lot of changes,
but
the experiences I had with doing ibogaine had a lot
to
do with being able to make those changes. Just
saying
its a detox isnt doing justice to what it does.
Maybe
alot of people also have different bottoms and what
they have to deal with when they get off ibogaine.

Most of what I hear people tell me about ibogaine on
the street is almost all not based on anything true.
I
am at least meeting people who have heard of it
though. this was not the case 2 years ago!

I’m not sure if I’m making sense or not its late I
wanted to make sure you understood I wasn’t arguing
with you at all just saying my opinion.

Carla B

— Randy Hencken <randyhencken@hotmail.com> wrote:
Brett, Sara,

I have no problem with people doing Ibo several
times. I have no problem
with people doing whatevr they need/wish to do to
get by/improve etc.
CURRENTLY, I don’t wish to do ibogaine again. I
got
what I neede out of it,
so far. I never know, maybe some day it will call
upon me to use it again.
There are many doors and tools to life.

I would like ibogaine to be presented in a honest
manner to the world.
There is a lot of folklore about ibo on the
streets.
A buddy of mine met a
junkie recently who said that he had heard that
ibogaine had a %98 success
rate in curing heroin addiction. These rumors do
not help the cause or the
end user. People who are going to use ibogaine to
treat addiction, both the
provider and the user, should be informed of the
realities and not the
folklore. Give them the straight scoop. Ibogaine
will get you clean – you
have to stay clean. If you relapse, fine, you may
need to do ibogaine
again, fine. But the cure isn’t inside of the
ibogaine. The cure is inside
of the addict. We will do the end user a greater
good if we tell them from
the get go that it isn’t about how many times you
take ibo, it is about how
hard you try after you take ibo.

more later, maybe
Peace,
Randy

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From: Carla Barnes <carlambarnes@yahoo.com>
Subject: RE: [ibogaine] multiple doses
Date: July 27, 2003 at 1:20:37 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I used to think this was true. I know that this
conversation has happened here a lot of time in the
past. But I think that ibogaine does more then just
detoxes you. I cant say this as well as its been said
here before by others. but patrick, howard, others
have all mentioned the same thing.

I know that for me I made i made a lot of changes, but
the experiences I had with doing ibogaine had a lot to
do with being able to make those changes. Just saying
its a detox isnt doing justice to what it does. Maybe
alot of people also have different bottoms and what
they have to deal with when they get off ibogaine.

Most of what I hear people tell me about ibogaine on
the street is almost all not based on anything true. I
am at least meeting people who have heard of it
though. this was not the case 2 years ago!

I’m not sure if I’m making sense or not its late I
wanted to make sure you understood I wasn’t arguing
with you at all just saying my opinion.

Carla B

— Randy Hencken <randyhencken@hotmail.com> wrote:
Brett, Sara,

I have no problem with people doing Ibo several
times. I have no problem
with people doing whatevr they need/wish to do to
get by/improve etc.
CURRENTLY, I don’t wish to do ibogaine again. I got
what I neede out of it,
so far. I never know, maybe some day it will call
upon me to use it again.
There are many doors and tools to life.

I would like ibogaine to be presented in a honest
manner to the world.
There is a lot of folklore about ibo on the streets.
A buddy of mine met a
junkie recently who said that he had heard that
ibogaine had a %98 success
rate in curing heroin addiction. These rumors do
not help the cause or the
end user. People who are going to use ibogaine to
treat addiction, both the
provider and the user, should be informed of the
realities and not the
folklore. Give them the straight scoop. Ibogaine
will get you clean – you
have to stay clean. If you relapse, fine, you may
need to do ibogaine
again, fine. But the cure isn’t inside of the
ibogaine. The cure is inside
of the addict. We will do the end user a greater
good if we tell them from
the get go that it isn’t about how many times you
take ibo, it is about how
hard you try after you take ibo.

more later, maybe
Peace,
Randy

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From: <crownofthorns@hushmail.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Your article, overcoming addition – heroin times
Date: July 24, 2003 at 10:13:58 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

That was a funny message that arrived in the middle of the ibogaine and
addiction conversation. Especially since Patrick wrote it last year :-
)

Bro, this is a really good article. I like it. Nice combination of obnoxious
and honest 🙂 It still trips me out seeing a giant sized Mindvox logo
in the middle of Heroin Times. A little different then all the other
content.

http://www.herointimes.com/jul03/intervent.html

What I wanted to say to you bro is you can write. I knew you could write
already but I mean you can write prose. At the risk of supersizing your
already large ego bro, you are f*cking good!

The only bad thing about your writing is that you don’t send any copies
to me. I have to go to Francis house to read it and he won’t let me copy
it and never bothers to mention that he is reading from it. That is another
total trip bro, you have the dope fiends and entheogen freaks in the
same room grooving on the same headtrip. Right on bro!

I wanted to leave you with some great advice from Jerry Stahl. It’s scanned
in from a flyer when I was at his book tour. I hated Permanent Midnight
but love seeing him live. He’s another obnoxious and funny motherf*cker
🙂

CONFESSIONS OF A CELEBRITY DOPE FIEND
ADVICE FOR RISING JUNK-STARS
BY JERRY STAHL

I can’t give a whole lot of pointers on how to destroy your life. That’s
something you either have a gift for or you don’t.

However, once you’ve gone ahead and savaged your own reality and that
of everyone around you with your drug-addled, by-the-numbers one-man
asshole party, and managed to mold the experience into an appropriately
self-obsessed and titillating toxic product — be it book, movie or
after-school special — it’s time to get out there and work it. So
this is for you, Mr. or Ms. Ex–Low Bottom Substance Abuser. You’ve
made the decision to mine your own shame to make those cash registers
ring. And, by way of giving a little something back, I’d like to help
out with some good advice.

1. TAKE CARE OF YOUR TRACKS

Naively assuming that the worst scars left by drug addiction are external,
talk-show hosts boast an epic fascination with tracks. While you might
see your Braille-like flesh as fallout from a darker time, take heed!
When you, the newly minted celebrity junkie, step out under the lights,
these needle marks will be your greatest friends.

2. IF YOU WRITE A MEMOIR ABOUT HOW YOU DID DRUGS AND THEN, AFTER A FEROCIOUS
AND NOBLE DRAMA, MANAGED TO GET OFF THEM, TRY NOT TO RELAPSE BEFORE YOUR
BOOK TOUR

This can be tricky! But trust me, having banged out my own little how-
I-got-off-the-hard-stuff saga, then started using again before the ink
dried on the manuscript, I can tell you, it’s no picnic when Oprah
leans in to ask you how long you’ve been clean and you realize that,
no matter how hard you pray, the studio floor is not going to open up
and swallow you and your TV suit. (Can you go to jail for lying on network
television? I’ll let you know.)

If, like many a former fiend, you’ve felt like a loser for so long
that sudden “success” is as weird as Ed McMahon showing up naked in your
kitchen clutching a wad of 50s between his man-paps, be careful. Learn
from my mortifying behavior. Having graduated from 38-year-old retard
working at McDonald’s to 39-year-old author being feted by Esquire,
I was thrown by the transition.

There I was, sitting in my hotel room on Broadway after a Brooklyn literary
soiree on my behalf, when suddenly the TV news launched into a story
about “a plague of heroin on 48th and Eighth.”

“Well, gee,” I thought to myself, “I used to be a journalist, I better
investigate!”

The lesson being, if you’re going to dine out on killing the monkey
on your back, don’t keep feeding it scraps.

3. WHEN PEOPLE IN THE MEDIA ASK YOU HOW YOU DID IT, JUST SAY “OPRAH!”

Trust me, you don’t want to get spiritual with some ho-bag from E!
who wants the lowdown on Glitzed-up former needle jockeys. Remember the
Eternal Rule of Media Whoredom: If you’re sincere, you’ll sound like
a simp. If you’re ironic, you’ll come off like an obnoxious blowhard.
Best to turn it around and ask whoever’s got a mike in your face if
they ever came to mouth-down in a pool of vomit and Bromo Seltzer in
the Health ’n’ Beauty Aisle at Vons . . . Make it about them, and
you’re off the hook.

(Patrick, this next one’s especially for you bro 😉

4. GROUPIES: SHOULD YOU BE WORRIED IF YOU HAVE THEM?

Ask yourself this question, junk-stars: Having laid out the most vile,
repulso, disgustingly gruesome details of your life in the dope fiend
trenches, do you really want to get smushy with some gal who finds the
arcana of your self destruction “a real, like, turn-on”?

The bottom line: Be careful. If somebody knows who you used to be and
still finds you attractive, she has more problems than you do. This means
she’s out on a day-pass from the mental hospital.

Peace out,
Curtis

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From: Vector Vector <vector620022002@yahoo.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] Fwd: [vox] ALMIGHTY HAND OF GOD BITCH-SLAPS DISNEY
Date: July 24, 2003 at 8:54:43 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

This is from the vox list, not exactly on topic here but too funny 🙂

.:vector:.

— Vigilius Haufniensis <thehatefulnerd@centurytel.net> wrote:
From: “Vigilius Haufniensis” <thehatefulnerd@centurytel.net>
To: <vox@mindvox.com>
Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 21:31:17 -0500
Subject: [vox] ALMIGHTY HAND OF GOD BITCH-SLAPS DISNEY

http://www.abcactionnews.com/stories/2003/07/030723disney.shtml

Lightning kills giraffe at Disney’s Animal Kingdom
an Associated Press report 7/23/03
LAKE BUENA VISTA – Lightning struck and killed a giraffe at Disney’s
Animal Kingdom theme park, company officials said Wednesday.

The accident occurred Monday afternoon as a severe lightning storm
moved over the Kilimanjaro Safari attraction, where Betsy the giraffe
roamed as visitors passed through, Disney spokeswoman Diane Ledder
said.

A necropsy confirmed that the 6-year-old female giraffe was killed by
lightning, Ledder said.

“To the best of my knowledge, it was a quick death,” she said. It was
unclear if any tourists saw the lighting strike.

Betsy was the first animal to die from a lightning strike at the
central Florida theme park, she said.

“It’s very unfortunate and unusual … but it has happened in the
past” at other U.S. parks, Ledder said.

The park has lightning rods placed throughout the safari area to
protect animals, she said. Animals can also be brought inside during
severe weather, but the lightning storm came through with too little
warning, she said.

__________________________________
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From: “Randy Hencken” <randyhencken@hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: [ibogaine] multiple doses
Date: July 24, 2003 at 8:57:01 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Brett, Sara,

I have no problem with people doing Ibo several times. I have no problem with people doing whatevr they need/wish to do to get by/improve etc. CURRENTLY, I don’t wish to do ibogaine again. I got what I neede out of it, so far. I never know, maybe some day it will call upon me to use it again. There are many doors and tools to life.

I would like ibogaine to be presented in a honest manner to the world. There is a lot of folklore about ibo on the streets. A buddy of mine met a junkie recently who said that he had heard that ibogaine had a %98 success rate in curing heroin addiction. These rumors do not help the cause or the end user. People who are going to use ibogaine to treat addiction, both the provider and the user, should be informed of the realities and not the folklore. Give them the straight scoop. Ibogaine will get you clean – you have to stay clean. If you relapse, fine, you may need to do ibogaine again, fine. But the cure isn’t inside of the ibogaine. The cure is inside of the addict. We will do the end user a greater good if we tell them from the get go that it isn’t about how many times you take ibo, it is about how hard you try after you take ibo.

more later, maybe
Peace,
Randy

From: Brett Calabrese <bcalabrese@yahoo.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: RE: [ibogaine] multiple doses Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 19:27:49 -0700 (PDT)

— Sara Glatt <sara119@xs4all.nl> wrote:
> Randy, people don’t have the same mind and have
> different needs,
> There is nothing wrong with multiple doses if people
> need it.

I fully agree.

The experiences totally clean have enabled me to see
further, understand and challenge myself (also QUIT
SMOKING). Ibogaine has many other uses of discovery
and self understanding as well as doing work (and fun)
in a relationship. It isn’t just about getting clean
or being able to stay sober, it is also about seeing.

At first there was quite a lot of fear about doing
ibogaine again, but that is quite common. There are
also people who know what ibogaine will do, some even
tasted its effects and will turn from it, unwilling to
see, afraid to understanding or of change. If I could
hold up a mirror and show you yourself, really who you
are, well that is what ibogaine is, for me. Oh what I
would have missed out on if I stopped ibogaine after
my first experience, all clean and sober. The journey
just began at that point, not that getting clean isn’t
a miracle and worthy of saying “success”, but taking
ibogaine over and over, even needing it, isn’t
failing. If someone can only go 3 steps and there are
10 to go, do they fail or somehow not “DO IT RIGHT”
because they can’t do 10 steps in 3 – referring to
getting clean?

Maybe someone doesn’t need ibogaine past getting
sober, maybe it won’t do anymore for them. They could
have it well in hand, no thank you ibogaine, it has
been nice but don’t need you any longer… or they
could be afraid. I don’t want to name names but a
there are a lot of people out there who have no “need”
to do ibogaine cause they were never addicted or have
taken ibogaine for addiction and have also done it
quite sober. Vivian, my Fiance, she knows what it
does, she sees, she doesn’t want it either, neither do
I… (here is her first experience
http://www.ibogaine.co.uk/exp18.htm), she has no
“need”, she is not an addict. But the time comes I (or
we) need to see a little more, understand a little
deeper or maybe get a grasp of a new situation. OR
Vivian and I just want to go out and cheat on each
other, with each other, 125mg HCL for her, about 150
for me (and there are other uses for that and other
doses, also depending on intent it is different), a
2nd Honeymoon if you want to be white about it and
take a little vacation. Or am I “using” ibogaine as a
mood and mind, a soul and spirit altering substance,
yes. Am I using it to help my understanding of others
and as a self-discovery agent, to improve my health or
some challenge (take a tiny bit of ibo before a
stressful event, 20mg or so will do the trick for the
initiated), or maybe use the same to improve mood
instead of a prescription drug with negative side
effects. Or maybe 100-150mg before a vacation, family
pictures, for feeling down, needing a “reminder” (to
understand), having a party at our place so we have
the energy and HIGH SEROTONIN SMILES, able to outlast
all of the guests (for several days if necessary <g>)?
Absolutely yes though I really don’t want to do a full
dose again if there is any way I can wiggle out of
it… but will, “need” it or not.

Then there are T. Iboga extracts such as Indra and
Ethnogarden which is different from HCL. It isn’t your
fathers ibogaine anymore either, ibogaine is not just
an anti-addictive, but then, IT NEVER WAS till Howard
found out, only 40 years ago! Ibogaine has a long
history in medicine, religion and ritual, it is
literally the Bwiti Tree of Life.

Randy,
Why would you not want to do iboga again? I mean well
other than it is one of the most disgusting
experiences I can imagine. Why not do it again, is
there not anything besides an anti-addiction there for
you?

“> Does ibogaine becomes more efficient in multiple
> doses? Or is it that
> persons who do ibo multiple times have more
> willingness and
> determination to
> be clean?
>
> IMO, I prefer the later. ”

Both are true and would be at same time. SO, yes
multiple treatments are more effective and yes it take
s willingness. Just in taking ibogaine again does show
some amount of willingness, it is not fun as you know
but is much better clean, and got better the healthier
I got. It would be like saying is it the sunshine or
the water that made the plant grow, the answer is both
(add some fresh air, nurturing, food… grows
better…). So in addition to the willingness and ibo,
toss in good food, fresh air, exercise, yes and some
sunshine too… that will make it work for ya.

Brett

> For some people it is an addiction cure gaining
> insight,realization of
> unity and creation one ibogaine treatment does it
> for them but
> Just like any other treatment to any other illness
> some will need to have a longer treatment with
> multiple doses or a
> combination with other medication or treatments,
> (Accupunture, prozac,
> herbs or non addictive pain killers, Rehab, health
> center what you like)
>
>
> To focus on staying clean is for some harder then
> for others,
> Just like learning to read and write, walk or talk.
> Nobody is perfact.
>
> S.
>
> —–Original Message—–
> From: Randy Hencken
> [mailto:randyhencken@hotmail.com]
> Sent: dinsdag 22 juli 2003 17:44
> To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
> Subject: [ibogaine] multiple doses
>
>
> Carla, you are correct that many people do ibogaine
> multiple times
> before
> they achieve a lengthy clean time. And I assume
> that statistics will
> show
> that there are a greater number of people who have
> done ibo more than
> once
> that contuniue to be off dope verse persons whom
> only have done ibo
> once.
> The question I pose to anyone here is:
>
> Does ibogaine becomes more efficient in multiple
> doses? Or is it that
> persons who do ibo multiple times have more
> willingness and
> determination to
> be clean?
>
> IMO, I prefer the later. I hope that everyone on
> this list understands
> that
> ibogaine is not a cure. Not even in multiple doses.
> Ibogaine is an
> oppurtunity. I think it is the amongst the best
> oppurtunities for
> opiate
> dependent persons to get clean. More importantly
> than how many times an
>
> addict takes ibogaine is what the addict does
> immediatley thereafter
> treatment. Ibogaine will be a one time treatment if
> the user follows a
> plan
> to remain clean. And ibogaine will become a
> multiple treatment for
> persons
> who MAKE the DECISION to use again.
>
> Peace,
> Randy
>
>
> >
> >Hi Randy, I don’t know? Out of most of the people I
> >know who have done ibogaine they’ve usually done it
> >two or three times before they manage to stay clean
> >for longer then a few months. I don’t know how it
> >works for everyone else but I know nobody who has
> done
> >it once and stayed clean. After two or three times,
> it
> >starts to happen more but still takes a lot of
> work.
> >>
> >Carla B
> >
>
>
_________________________________________________________________
> Tired of spam? Get advanced junk mail protection
> with MSN 8.
> http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail
>
>
>
>
>
>

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From: Brett Calabrese <bcalabrese@yahoo.com>
Subject: RE: [ibogaine] multiple doses
Date: July 23, 2003 at 10:27:49 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

— Sara Glatt <sara119@xs4all.nl> wrote:
Randy, people don’t have the same mind and have
different needs,
There is nothing wrong with multiple doses if people
need it.

I fully agree.

“> Does ibogaine becomes more efficient in multiple
doses? Or is it that
persons who do ibo multiple times have more
willingness and
determination to
be clean?

IMO, I prefer the later. ”

Brett

For some people it is an addiction cure gaining
insight,realization of
unity and creation one ibogaine treatment does it
for them but
Just like any other treatment to any other illness
some will need to have a longer treatment with
multiple doses or a
combination with other medication or treatments,
(Accupunture, prozac,
herbs or non addictive pain killers, Rehab, health
center what you like)

To focus on staying clean is for some harder then
for others,
Just like learning to read and write, walk or talk.
Nobody is perfact.

—–Original Message—–
From: Randy Hencken
[mailto:randyhencken@hotmail.com]
Sent: dinsdag 22 juli 2003 17:44
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [ibogaine] multiple doses

Carla, you are correct that many people do ibogaine
multiple times
before
they achieve a lengthy clean time. And I assume
that statistics will
show
that there are a greater number of people who have
done ibo more than
once
that contuniue to be off dope verse persons whom
only have done ibo
once.
The question I pose to anyone here is:

Does ibogaine becomes more efficient in multiple
doses? Or is it that
persons who do ibo multiple times have more
willingness and
determination to
be clean?

addict takes ibogaine is what the addict does
immediatley thereafter
treatment. Ibogaine will be a one time treatment if
the user follows a
plan
to remain clean. And ibogaine will become a
multiple treatment for
persons
who MAKE the DECISION to use again.

Peace,
Randy

Hi Randy, I don’t know? Out of most of the people I
know who have done ibogaine they’ve usually done it
two or three times before they manage to stay clean
for longer then a few months. I don’t know how it
works for everyone else but I know nobody who has
done
it once and stayed clean. After two or three times,
it
starts to happen more but still takes a lot of
work.

Carla B

_________________________________________________________________
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From: “Patrick K. Kroupa” <digital@phantom.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] a Disturbance in The Force
Date: July 23, 2003 at 6:51:57 PM EDT
To: vox@mindvox.com, voxadm@mindvox.com, ibogaine@mindvox.com, drugwar@mindvox.com
Cc: crashtestdummies@mindvox.com, sacrament@mindvox.com, godhead@mindvox.com, zone@phantom.com, bk@mindvox.com, bandwagon@mindvox.com, kotas4christ@mindvox.com, local-loop@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Please note:

From roughly midnight until 3am EST, MindVox will be offline. Our servers
are moving to another facility where we can burn through a lot more
bandwidth without worrying about it.

Your DNS may not be able to find the new IP for phantom or mindvox for
several hours.

Whatever mail is sent to the lists during this period will just queue up,
and arrive a few hours later. This is the same for people who have actual
email accounts @phantom or @mindvox.

Thank you berry muchly for your affections to this manner,

Patrick

From: “Sara Glatt” <sara119@xs4all.nl>
Subject: RE: [ibogaine] multiple doses
Date: July 23, 2003 at 3:57:04 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Randy, people don’t have the same mind and have different needs,
There is nothing wrong with multiple doses if people need it.
For some people it is an addiction cure gaining insight,realization of
unity and creation one ibogaine treatment does it for them but
Just like any other treatment to any other illness
some will need to have a longer treatment with multiple doses or a
combination with other medication or treatments, (Accupunture, prozac,
herbs or non addictive pain killers, Rehab, health center what you like)

To focus on staying clean is for some harder then for others,
Just like learning to read and write, walk or talk.
Nobody is perfact.

—–Original Message—–
From: Randy Hencken [mailto:randyhencken@hotmail.com]
Sent: dinsdag 22 juli 2003 17:44
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [ibogaine] multiple doses

Carla, you are correct that many people do ibogaine multiple times
before
they achieve a lengthy clean time. And I assume that statistics will
show
that there are a greater number of people who have done ibo more than
once
that contuniue to be off dope verse persons whom only have done ibo
once.
The question I pose to anyone here is:

Does ibogaine becomes more efficient in multiple doses? Or is it that
persons who do ibo multiple times have more willingness and
determination to
be clean?

addict takes ibogaine is what the addict does immediatley thereafter
treatment. Ibogaine will be a one time treatment if the user follows a
plan
to remain clean. And ibogaine will become a multiple treatment for
persons
who MAKE the DECISION to use again.

Peace,
Randy

Hi Randy, I don’t know? Out of most of the people I
know who have done ibogaine they’ve usually done it
two or three times before they manage to stay clean
for longer then a few months. I don’t know how it
works for everyone else but I know nobody who has done
it once and stayed clean. After two or three times, it
starts to happen more but still takes a lot of work.

Carla B

_________________________________________________________________
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From: “Randy Hencken” <randyhencken@hotmail.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] multiple doses
Date: July 22, 2003 at 11:44:15 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Carla, you are correct that many people do ibogaine multiple times before they achieve a lengthy clean time. And I assume that statistics will show that there are a greater number of people who have done ibo more than once that contuniue to be off dope verse persons whom only have done ibo once. The question I pose to anyone here is:

Does ibogaine becomes more efficient in multiple doses? Or is it that persons who do ibo multiple times have more willingness and determination to be clean?

IMO, I prefer the later. I hope that everyone on this list understands that ibogaine is not a cure. Not even in multiple doses. Ibogaine is an oppurtunity. I think it is the amongst the best oppurtunities for opiate dependent persons to get clean. More importantly than how many times an addict takes ibogaine is what the addict does immediatley thereafter treatment. Ibogaine will be a one time treatment if the user follows a plan to remain clean. And ibogaine will become a multiple treatment for persons who MAKE the DECISION to use again.

Peace,
Randy

Hi Randy, I don’t know? Out of most of the people I
know who have done ibogaine they’ve usually done it
two or three times before they manage to stay clean
for longer then a few months. I don’t know how it
works for everyone else but I know nobody who has done
it once and stayed clean. After two or three times, it
starts to happen more but still takes a lot of work.

Carla B

_________________________________________________________________
Tired of spam? Get advanced junk mail protection with MSN 8. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail

From: Carla Barnes <carlambarnes@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] pain management and ibogaine
Date: July 21, 2003 at 6:42:54 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Randy, I don’t know? Out of most of the people I
know who have done ibogaine they’ve usually done it
two or three times before they manage to stay clean
for longer then a few months. I don’t know how it
works for everyone else but I know nobody who has done
it once and stayed clean. After two or three times, it
starts to happen more but still takes a lot of work.

I think we have these conversations a few times on
this list about how ibogaine works, what people
thought of it and what the original opinions were from
when Howard and his friends first started to do it.

I’m now sure I’d want to do ibogaine with the Bwiti
😉

Carla B

— Randy Hencken <randyhencken@hotmail.com> wrote:
Carla,

I don’t know about every one on this list, but
looking at the list of
clients who have come through our treatment center,
I wouldn’t say that most
people do ibo more than once. I have only done ibo
once and I am not sure
that I will ever do it again. If I do use ibo again
I plan to do it with
the Bwiti. Sure if you do ibo more than once than
the likelihood of being
off dope improves. Is this because of the ibogaine?
Or is it because of
determination? Ibogaine is an amazing opportunity.
Ibogaine was amongst
the best things that ever happened to me. But it is
no trip to the
amusement park (or maybe it is some kind of demented
amusement park). If
persons manage to get it right the first time, then
they don’t have to keep
doing ibogaine regularly. Of course, everyone has
free will and is welcome
to do what they like (but sometimes the Man will
lock you up for doing what
you like…).

Peace,
Randy

__________________________________
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From: Carla Barnes <carlambarnes@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Anyone have Patrick Kroupa’s (new?) pager or phone. Now or never? EOM
Date: July 21, 2003 at 6:39:53 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Brett, I did about 2 years ago. Patrick was a
sweetheart and helped me a lot just by talking a few
times when I first got clean. After a while I think
all the numbers changed and he’s never available.

From what i know from people who have tried there is
some small group of people who he talks to and their
email is answered but most of the time nobody gets any
replies to anything.

I think Dana and Howard probably know how to find him.
Maybe Gamma and Preston and some others I don’t know
about or forgot from this list. The impression I have
is that he’s overloaded and has a lot of people who
all want something from him all at once so he hides
😉

I know he reads his mail at least every few days, so
if you put urgent or important in the title I’m sure
he’ll see it.

Carla B

— Brett Calabrese <bcalabrese@yahoo.com> wrote:
ok you looked, I deleted it

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
SBC Yahoo! DSL – Now only $29.95 per month!
http://sbc.yahoo.com

From: Brett Calabrese <bcalabrese@yahoo.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] Anyone have Patrick Kroupa’s (new?) pager or phone. Now or never? EOM
Date: July 21, 2003 at 5:57:49 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

ok you looked, I deleted it

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
SBC Yahoo! DSL – Now only $29.95 per month!
http://sbc.yahoo.com

From: “Mary Adams” <m.adams01@comcast.net>
Subject: RE: [ibogaine] ibo report
Date: July 20, 2003 at 3:29:35 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Please unsubscribe me from your mailing list or from your group.
I live in the United States and can’t receive ibogaine.

——-Original Message——-

From: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Date: Sunday, July 20, 2003 02:20:13
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: RE: [ibogaine] ibo report

Bro, a list of options is online here

Ibogaine Treatment Centres and supply options

If you’re in the united states then you will have to leave the united
states, get someone to receive your package for you and re ship it or
work something else out.

Peace out,
Curtis

On Fri, 18 Jul 2003 16:42:34 -0700 Ron Rheinor <RRheinor@YukonFire.com>
wrote:
>where do you get the ibogaine?
>
>i look and look and cant seem to find a spot to obtain it i really
>could use a tip
>
>thanks (i am a oppiate addict for 16 years
>
>—–Original Message—–
>From: HSLotsof@aol.com [mailto:HSLotsof@aol.com]
>Sent: Friday, July 18, 2003 1:12 PM
>To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
>Subject: [ibogaine] ibo report
>
>
>The following report was forwarded for posting to the ibogaine lists.

Concerned about your privacy? Follow this link to get
FREE encrypted email: https://www.hushmail.com/?l=2

Free, ultra-private instant messaging with Hush Messenger
https://www.hushmail.com/services.php?subloc=messenger&l=434

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From: <crownofthorns@hushmail.com>
Subject: RE: [ibogaine] ibo report
Date: July 20, 2003 at 3:19:23 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Bro, a list of options is online here

Ibogaine Treatment Centres and supply options

If you’re in the united states then you will have to leave the united
states, get someone to receive your package for you and re ship it or
work something else out.

Peace out,
Curtis

On Fri, 18 Jul 2003 16:42:34 -0700 Ron Rheinor <RRheinor@YukonFire.com>
wrote:
where do you get the ibogaine?

i look and look and cant seem to find a spot to obtain it i really
could use a tip

thanks (i am a oppiate addict for 16 years

—–Original Message—–
From: HSLotsof@aol.com [mailto:HSLotsof@aol.com]
Sent: Friday, July 18, 2003 1:12 PM
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [ibogaine] ibo report

The following report was forwarded for posting to the ibogaine lists.

Concerned about your privacy? Follow this link to get
FREE encrypted email: https://www.hushmail.com/?l=2

Free, ultra-private instant messaging with Hush Messenger
https://www.hushmail.com/services.php?subloc=messenger&l=434

Promote security and make money with the Hushmail Affiliate Program:
https://www.hushmail.com/about.php?subloc=affiliate&l=427

From: Eaquinet@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] vision content on ibogaine for opiate users
Date: July 19, 2003 at 11:43:49 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Brett, Been reading the discussion on effects of ibo either w/or w/o opiates in your system. I’ve done indra extract ( i think 5 gm.) w/Marc in vancouver and had few if any visions, mostly of death images when they did occur but just mainly very dark–sleeping some during it (though not after!) A very dark experience in which i was so glad to have Marc and others there for support. Then, last week I did 1 gm. of ibogaine because I had gotten back on the methadone for about six weeks while my addicted daughter was here and driving me crazy. So, I just took the gram here at home alone and dealt w/it. It was again, not visual at all…just dark again, scary, a few death images/ideas….lots more nausea than w/the indra. I did throw up the ibogaine (like 4 hrs. later or so) but never felt any nausea at all w/the indra extract. So, I think next tme I;d use the indra againThe ibogaine was like being hit by a Mac truck. Since then I’ve been in bed–literallyin bed for a week, unable to get upriht and walk, etc. without falling down and being very dizzy. But tat might be from the Klonopin and Cloniidine that my physician prescribed to mitigate the w/d sx;s. So I feel very fortunate to not vbe having w/d sx’s anymore after almost 10 days. I pray they never come back and hat I never touch methadone oir any opiates again. Methadone is so insidiously evil….it seems like a solution abnd makes you feel good. But it’ SO HARD to g et off of. The firwt time I tried to do a methadone cold turkey(not cause i’d done sometihing wrong–but b/c the clinic wouldn’t medicate me cause I came back from Malta earlier than expected and they claimed tey did’t have the paperwork!!!!! zzzzzzzzzzzzfCouldn’t they have calledd Malta or faxed them ? oNO…most of these clinics are punitive and disrespecfull and contenptuous of patients. It’s not medical treatment–it’s punishment.. well, i’v e gone on enough. ope this is helpful “sstraw poll”: of ibogaine/.indra experiences. Take care; I do love you all for your minds, hearts, dedication to this cause, and of course your beauty (wich i haven’t seen –ex cept for Marc, Sandra, and a few others–but know is reall)Oh, if you saw the CBC program on Ibogaine that the sweet, lovely Duncan did–that was me mostly). Peace, beauty, and love to us all. Eliana

From: “Ron Rheinor” <RRheinor@YukonFire.com>
Subject: RE: [ibogaine] ibo report
Date: July 18, 2003 at 7:42:34 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

where do you get the ibogaine?

i look and look and cant seem to find a spot to obtain it i really could use a tip

thanks (i am a oppiate addict for 16 years

—–Original Message—–
From: HSLotsof@aol.com [mailto:HSLotsof@aol.com]
Sent: Friday, July 18, 2003 1:12 PM
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [ibogaine] ibo report

The following report was forwarded for posting to the ibogaine lists.

My name is Matt and I’m an addict. I know this isn’t an N.A.

meeting but I want there to be no mistake of where I came from or

what has happened to me. Sixteen days ago (written on July 13th

2003) I took ibogaine for the fifth time in my life. I have written

to the ibogaine mailing list of a previous experience several years

ago. But in short my history is this: Alcoholism for roughly

thirteen years until I discovered heroin could help me not to

drink. This was predictably followed by heroin addiction, roughly

five years or so. Durring this time I could occasionally kick when

I went away to the woods or another state, but I always returned to

active addiction. This was when I first used ibogaine.

My very first experience with ibogaine started much like any

other hallucinogenic experience. But as a heroin addict I was no-

longer able to handle these types of experiences psychologically.

So I tried and succeeded I believe, in falling asleep through the

bulk of the experience. I found I was not sick but I craved heroin

the next day.

My second experience (2 grams, just like the first time,

amounted to 21mg/kg) was more successful. I stayed clean for 30

days. I had a fairly profound experience but I felt it wear off day

by day and after 30 days the old obsession to use returned and I

returned to active addiction. My third and fourth experiences were

really screw ups on my part. I feared the hallucinogenic part of

ibogaine so I wouldn’t take as much as before. Instead I split the

dose both times with a strung-out friend and it was not enough for

either of us to get clean although they were both powerful

experiences for both of us. We went into withdrawal and used within

48 hours both times.

I got on methadone after about four years of heroin use. But at

first I still could not stop using heroin or cocaine or any other

damn thing that came my way. This was probibly the lowest point in

my addiction. I fucking hated it. I started selling heroin and I

felt like I was never ever going to get clean. So I moved to

Colorado to live with my Father and hopefully stop using illegal

drugs.

Surprising as it may seem, it worked, I was able to use only

methadone, but I had to greatly increase the dose at first. But as

I stayed away from other drugs longer, they gave me more and more

take home doses. And my addiction just took over with this crap and

I would take my take homes as soon as I got home and be sick again

before I got back to the clinic again. I told my methadone

counselor about it but I never did solve this issue. By the time I

got off methadone 16 days ago, I was going to the clinic once a week

and staying sick a good 2 to 3 days a week. Needless to say, this

was intolerable to me, but I didn’t know what to do about it. I was

a methadone junkie instead of a heroin junkie. And by now I had

been on methadone for over four years and while I was able to

decrease my dose about a mg a week, I was still on 74mg (almost 2

years from being able to quite entirely). I was also on a handful

of anti-depressants because I utterly hated my existance like this.

Before I tell you about my fifth ibogaine experience I want to

tell you that way back in my alcohol years I started going to A.A.

to try and quit. That was my first introduction to the twelve

steps. I read the steps on the wall and got to step three and read

the word God and said to myself, “Well this will never work for me

because I don’t believe in God.” It was a number of years and

suicide attempts before I returned to A.A. I was much more beaten

down by my addiction at that point but I refused to believe in God.

After a while of going to meetings I came to understand that what

they were telling me was this: Either God was going to save me, or I

was going to die from my disease. At that time I didn’t consider it

a disease I thought of it as a problem of willpower or something

like that and I called it alcoholism and not addiction. I mean

after all I was able to take or leave pot.

My closed-mindedness kept A.A. from ever getting me to stop for

even 2 days. A few years and a dozen more suicide attempts (many

that really should have worked) found me utterly hopeless. Hopeless

for my future and hopeless to stop drinking. Everyone knew I was a

hopeless drunk and no-one could tolerate me at night because I was

always wasted. Then came heroin. At first I didn’t care, I just

said, “What the fuck, my life sucks anyway.” But within a month I

thought I was onto the miracle cure for alcoholism. At first heroin

did everything alcohol had stopped doing, it made everything ok,

with no hang over. I even remember going to an A.A. meeting on

heroin to collect my 30 days sober chip. I knew heroin was

addictive but I didn’t know real addiction until I was hooked. I

thought I knew addiction from alcohol, but that didn’t have anything

on the overwhelming need that heroin withdrawal created in me. And

alcohol never drove me to the crime and betrayal that heroin did.

So durring my heroin use, I started going to N.A. Unfortunately (or

so I thought) they use the very same twelve steps. By then I really

felt like I had had enough. So I changed my thinking to this, “I

need to figure out how to believe in God.”

This is essentially the conundrum I worked with the whole time I

was on methadone. All I knew for sure was that I met people who

convinced me they were just as hopelessly addicted as I was and they

were now not just clean, they were happy. Everytime I quit using,

it was only a matter of time before being clean became more

unbearable than being high and I returned to dope. And these people

told me it was do to their belief and connection to God. I heard a

tired slogan in A.A. that says, “fake it till you make it.” So I

started praying to the ether or whatever would listen. And crazy as

it sounds, I prayed to God to help me believe in God. Some odd

things happened but my mind always insisted they could have been

coincidence and I simply could not believe. I realize now that I

was afraid. I didn’t realize it when I was praying for God to enter

my life, but the back of my mind was saying, “whatever you do, don’t

scare me with the reality of your existence.”

Once when I was still using heroin I had a very odd dream. I

was in a dark room and there were a lot of people there, I could not

see them but I could sense them. They all started chanting, “God

God God God” and suddenly I sensed a thought behind me, “I am here.”

I turned around and I saw infinity and instantly I awoke and sat up

straight in the middle of the night shaking with fear. I just

remember thinking that anything that big and powerful must be

dangerous.

Now I can finally tell you what happened sixteen days ago. I

know without a doubt that if I could share this experience with you

in feelings instead of words you would break down crying and it

would change your life as it did mine. But we only have these

feeble words to transmit the power of feeling, so I’ll just have to

tell you as best I can and you’ll have to use your imagination to

try and approach the reality.

First off, my weight is down from years of opiates so when I did

two grams it was 26mg/kg this time. Second, I was advised that

taking it as an ennema eliminated the nausia issue, which had been a

problem for me in the past. Luckily (I think now) as it turned out,

I wasn’t warned that the onset is enormously faster with this

administration. And thirdly I have to point out that the thought of

death was very much on my mind. Due to the fact that I have heard

of a few deaths on ibogaine. Some concerned with mixing other

drugs, some not. I also remember on two previous occassions being

concerned with my slow breathing. And I had also read other

people’s accounts before I ever took ibo where they mentioned

concern about slow breathing.

I took the ibogaine at 5:00 P.M. I was alone, as I was on my

only successful use before with heroin. At the time I kind of felt

like death was as much of an improvement as getting clean so I made

sure no-one was around. At the same time, there really was no-one I

could have trusted to watch me in Colorado anyway. I made exactly

zero friends in the two+ years I have been here because I didn’t

know how to be anything but a using friend. And even though I have

been living with him, my Father and I have no relationship

whatsoever. It is sad to me now but we are like strangers in the

same house. But anyway, by 5:10 I started noticing flashing lights

in the corner of my vision, and with each eye movement and blink

more and more of my vision turned to flashing lights untill it was

like I was completely surrounded by flood lights. If I stared

without moving my eyes I could see but not well and not without

massive rainbows and flashing lights. By 5:15 I was starting to

panick, I was thinking, “Holy crap, this is comming on way too

fast!” So I thought, “O.K. I’ll turn on the T.V. for a bit and see

if it mellows me out.” Well I turned on the T.V. just for about a

minute but it was just long enough to see a scene from some cop

chase peice of shit FOX show where this guy had kidnapped his 3 year

old son and was flying recklessly down a freeway in a semi truck

loaded down with lumber. And all this lumber was hanging off the

side of the truck and the guy almost hits a school bus full of kids

and the cops finally decide they have to kill him so they shoot him

in the head and kill him and slowly the truck comes to a stop. And

I just freaked the fuck out. I cannot tell you what effect that

minute had on me, I was already overly concerned with death and I

really didn’t need to see someone get killed and at the same time I

was totally horrified at the thought that that fucking show was

being aired as entertainment. I thought, “What kind of fucked up

world am I living in that this shit is splashed across the nation as

entertainment?!??!”

So by 5:20 I was panicking and very disturbed. So I turned off

the T.V. (I think it’s the biggest waste of mind and life there is

now) and turned to music. I had set up a CD I wanted to hear so I

turned that on. I like techno, dance, trance, rave kind of music so

this cd was very heavy with electronic sounds, and rapid repetative

beats. But the repetative beats sounded as random as popcorn and

after a few seconds it was just random electronic noise. I could

not sort any music or patterns to the sound whatsoever. So I shut

it off. Now my thoughts were more desperate, I didn’t just

think, “This is comming on too fucking fast!” anymore, I had started

to think, “I’m in serious trouble here!”

I can’t be certain of the time exactly but I think it must have

been about 5:30 that I felt like I was passing anything I have ever

experienced on hallucinogens before. I felt like I was on an ICBM

and I was leaving the earth’s atmosphere and I seriously doubted

that I would be returning. I once took 14 hits of acid, and I have

done mushrooms, peyote, even dextromethorphan (which is a

hallucinogen in case you wondered, actually it’s more correctly

called a disassociative like PCP or N2O but anyway…). This ibo

experience totally blew my ego and my world apart. It was so far

beyond anything I have ever experienced on any drug. After my

vision and hearing had become unrealiable, I felt like I had no

reliable sensory input at all. I felt myself falling and at the

same time I felt like the ibogaine particles were insinuating

themselves between every molecule in my body, disolving me. And I

also felt like my very soul was disolving. I felt like an alka-

seltzer in a glass of water and I was scared like I have never been

scared before and death was not just heavy on my mind it was like a

looming entity hanging around just out of site. In that moment of

complete fear I knew helplessness like never before. So I just

called out with my mind for help. And this time I was more afraid

of the oblivion I was desending into than I was with the thought

that God might be real. My thought was, “Please help me!!” but in

the back of my mind I felt like I was thinking, “O.K. God the jig is

up for me, if you are real we need to end this stupid charade or I’m

a goner.”

The easier to understand version goes like this: I had a

spiritual experience. The real truth goes like this: I found God,

or God found me. It really doesn’t matter. In that instant when I

asked for help with total honesty and without reservation, I stopped

falling and I felt love like I have never ever felt before and my

fear just melted away. I still had death heavy on my mind, although

I was no-longer afraid of it for myself. I think I have always had

a death wish. My drug use was incredibly destructive and I already

mentioned the suicide attempts, well I think I still had that at

that moment. And suddenly I saw myself on this line and on one side

was life and one side was death and my heart wasn’t beating and I

wasn’t breathing and God didn’t say, but I understood it like it was

transmitted in words that God was saying, “If this is really what

you want Matt then you can have it, just don’t take another breath

and it’s yours.” And I looked at death for a second and I saw shit,

and pain, and hopelessness, and most of all I saw a total abscence

of God and I forced myself to take a big breath and at the same time

thought, “NO FUCKING WAY DO I WANT ANY PART OF THAT!!” And I

understood God to say, “then you don’t have to”.

I basked in the overwhelming love for a long time. But I felt

extreme shame for myself. At some point I was made to understand

that God had been waiting for billions upon billions of years,

literally universes of time (more time than I can ever truly

comprehend), just for that moment when I asked for help. And when I

wondered ashamedely why a being so powerful would do such a thing

for a useless junkie like me I was answered, “because you asked me

to.” I cried for the next two days straight. I am still ashamed

today, not paralyzed with guilt mind you, just very ashamed to have

let this being down. I have felt nothing but love from God, no

judgement at all but for a while I felt like I was about two years

old and had been caught by my parents with my hand in the cookie

jar. I knew it was wrong to steal from my family, I knew it was

wrong to betray my friends, and yet I did all those things (and so

much more) when I used drugs. And I knew that God had seen it all,

and I am ashamed of myself. But I tell you what, that shit is never

going on in my life again. I can feel that overwhelming love today

any time I reach out a thought to God. And if I try I can get right

back to that place of shame with God’s love shining down all around

me. It feels like sunshine but it blows through me like wind. I

know what happened to me was real. I know what I saw and what I was

made to understand and I feel God in my life all the time now.

I remember when I first slept a few days after taking the

ibogaine, I had this long strange dream where all kinds of strange

things happened (I felt like I found and then lost true love with a

woman in this dream in addition to a lot of other strange things)

but I felt God with me the whole time and even when the things that

should have been painful happened, they seemed ok. Not necessarily

good, just ok, not bad in the slightest. And I woke up and that

love from God was still there. Today, sixteen days later, I feel

like I need to make a very minor effort to feel that love, but it is

not far. I think the reason it is not constant has to do with the

shame I still feel; that and not really knowing how I am supposed to

live yet. If I think about it, I feel really unworthy of the gift I

have been given, especially in light of how I haved lived my life

before now. I cannot begin to grasp the effort God made just to

save me when I took a drug to take the easy way out of my

addiction. So I think I move away from God out of shame and

ignorance, without meaning to, and then I need to make a little

effort to move back.

My friends in A.A. and N.A. tell me not to worry about the

things I did in the past and that I really had no choice, but I seem

to recall being there when I was stealing, and I seem to recall

making the choice to do so. As I said, God has not judged me in the

slightest for it, but when I feel the power of that love and when I

try to stretch my mind to understand what God did for me, I am

overwhelmed with unworthy feelings.

I now know that I have to take responsibility for everything I

do in this world. I have changed from this experience in a lot of

profound ways. One example is I quit eating meat. It always

bothered me that the rainforests are being burned to make room to

graze cattle, that cows are the third largest source of methane (a

major greenhouse gas) in the world, and that people are starving in

the world even though enough grain is grown to feed everyone, except

so much of it is fed to the cows. Well I cannot kid myself about it

anymore, everytime I take a bite of beef I take on responsibility

for all that and more. If I eat a dead animal, I take on

responsibility for the way that animal was raised, the way it lived,

and the way it died. That’s just one example of how my thinking and

actions have changed.

I am free of my addiction today. I still have some withdrawal

symptoms but I almost feel guilty for even mentioning them since

they are so minor and unimportant. Today I no-longer fear

emotions. I have no desire to change how I feel when I feel sad or

bored or whatever, and I haven’t gotten mad at all. Before I

couldn’t get a chemical in me fast enough to avoid a so-called bad

emotion. I believe that dream was God’s way of showing me how to

live. I can take whatever comes if I just trust God and renew that

connection as often as I can. I still feel shame when I think about

my past, but I know after my future becomes part of my past I wont

have to feel ashamed. I am going to do everything in my power to

earn this beautiful gift I have been given. I am not going to let

this amazing being down again, and I know it won’t let me down

either. I wish with all my heart I could share this thing with

everyone on this planet, but I don’t know how. But trust me when I

tell you, there is an intelligent, loving, overwhelmingly powerful

force in this universe. I call it God because it’s convienient and

it really seems to fit. If you don’t have a connection to it now,

then find it! It’s waiting for you and I suspect it has been for a

very, very long time.

I cannot advocate ibogaine as a magic bullet for opiate

addiction based on the deaths from it. However, if your addiction

has you wishing for death anyway, than maybe it’s the answer for you

too. I hope this helps somebody somewhere. I hope this leads you

to what I have found. I wish the best for everyone who reads these

words, and know that I love and care about everyone of you, and I

don’t need to have met you to know it.

P.S. I am not recieving this ibo mailing list so someone else will

post this for me. But if you want to email me my address is:

matthew@mailcentro.zzn.com I usually only check my mail about twice

a week so if you do write me, I will respond but it may not be right

away.

From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: [ibogaine] ibo report
Date: July 18, 2003 at 5:12:22 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com